0:00

But even by starting to ask

0:02

this question, then what is it

0:04

to be human? We are already

0:06

beginning to distinguish ourselves

0:08

from AI because we

0:11

are activating our reflective

0:13

self-consciousness, our ability to

0:15

detach from our experience

0:17

and to move away

0:19

from the mechanical. And then we

0:22

can begin to... make real

0:24

use of the asset of

0:26

our consciousness by expanding our

0:29

mind, by discovering a

0:31

part of our consciousness

0:33

that are not memory

0:35

and knowledge-based, by tapping

0:38

into nonlinear creativity, but

0:40

being able to reflect

0:42

on our mechanism or

0:45

on our patterns and

0:47

depart from them, by

0:49

cultivating an intelligence

0:51

of our intelligence.

0:53

Listeningly. Yes. Instead

0:55

of thinking, and of

0:58

course, perhaps most importantly,

1:00

by activating our awakened

1:03

heart. Peace and riches blessings,

1:05

I am Michael B. Back

1:07

with the host of Take

1:09

Back Your Mind. These

1:38

are the blessings everyone and

1:40

welcome to the podcast Take

1:42

Back Your Mind. I am your

1:44

host, Michael B. Beckwith, founder

1:46

of the Agap International

1:48

Spiritual Center, author of

1:51

spiritual liberation, life

1:53

visioning, 40-day mind fast soul

1:55

feast, transcend dance, and many

1:57

other books as well, but today.

2:00

As I have every week,

2:02

I seek to have individuals

2:04

who have in some way

2:06

shape or form taken back

2:09

their own mind, expanding their

2:11

own awareness into this field

2:13

of infinite consciousness, and are

2:16

making a mighty difference on

2:18

the planet at this time

2:20

in human history and beyond.

2:23

Today, have Shai Tubali. Welcome

2:25

brother to take back your

2:27

mind. Appreciate. Thank you. I

2:30

think I'm so honored to

2:32

be here. Before we begin,

2:35

let me tell people who

2:37

you are. The Shaitabali, he

2:39

blends academic philosophy and mysticism

2:42

to explore the transformative power

2:44

of expanded consciousness. His journey

2:46

dwells deep into how these

2:49

states not only shape individual

2:51

lives, but also humanity's present

2:53

and the future. Integrating Eastern

2:56

and Western philosophies, which you

2:58

know I love. Shai offers

3:00

comprehensive insights into the nature

3:03

and potential of consciousness. He

3:05

holds a PhD in religion

3:07

and from the University of

3:10

Leeds and is also a

3:12

research fellow at, what is

3:14

it called, Arts and Humanities

3:17

Research Institute. His academic work

3:19

includes the publication of the

3:21

transformative philosophical dialogue which showcases

3:24

his scholarly perspective on consciousness.

3:26

As the author of numerous

3:29

books, on inner transformation, and

3:31

shy has shared his insights

3:33

with many thousands of readers,

3:36

and check this out in

3:38

12 languages. Since 2000, he's

3:40

been guiding workshops, retreats, and

3:43

professional trainings, impacting countless individuals.

3:45

His passion has led him

3:47

to the creation of several

3:50

original methods for psychological transformation,

3:52

including the medically research expansion.

3:54

method. We want to get

3:57

into that. How are you

3:59

today, Shai? I'm doing wonderful.

4:01

Thank you. Delighted. start the

4:04

conversation. Yeah, I want you

4:06

to tell us a little

4:08

bit about your personal background

4:11

and what led you into

4:13

this exploration of consciousness and

4:16

the great work that you're

4:18

doing. What's your backstory? What's

4:20

your origin story? Yeah, like

4:23

the story behind the brief

4:25

biography you just read, right?

4:27

Absolutely. Yes, the inner story.

4:30

Well, it all started there

4:32

somewhere in my early 20s.

4:34

This is where I think

4:37

very early on I figured

4:39

out that I would not

4:41

find any substantial answers at

4:44

the university, where I was

4:46

admittedly looking for some answers,

4:48

but then I realized that

4:51

my professors were just reading

4:53

from paper and are absolutely

4:55

clueless about the meaning of

4:58

life. So then I started,

5:00

I embarked on a journey

5:02

of inner search. meeting growth

5:05

of all sorts in India

5:07

and elsewhere. And then at

5:10

a certain point at the

5:12

age of 23, I had

5:14

a remarkable revelation of universal

5:17

consciousness. I just discovered that

5:19

this universal I am that

5:21

was everywhere in the rock,

5:24

in the sky, in the

5:26

ocean, and I was that.

5:28

And that's that initiation into

5:31

the nature of self, opened

5:33

the slab gates and the

5:35

unending ecstasy, universal love, almost

5:38

excruciating love, just filled me.

5:40

And all I knew was

5:42

that one mantra that only

5:45

consciousness is, that consciousness alone

5:47

exists. And then I discovered

5:49

how many parts of my

5:52

personality, including desires, needs were

5:54

just falling away of their

5:56

own accord. And I started

5:59

getting to, I started acknowledging

6:01

the greatness, the magnitude, the

6:04

unfathomable mystery of consciousness, its

6:06

power. That propelled me to

6:08

develop the clicks that enabled

6:11

people to directly experience. expanded

6:13

state of consciousness. Among these

6:15

techniques were ones that helped

6:18

people who actually faced trauma,

6:20

to overcome trauma and PTSD.

6:22

So then seven years ago,

6:25

I returned to the academic

6:27

world humbly. This time determined

6:29

to bridge mysticism and philosophy.

6:32

and researching ancient traditions, Eastern

6:34

and Western, transformative dialogue, and

6:36

also the philosophy of AI,

6:39

all with the purpose of

6:41

responding somehow to the world's

6:43

chaotic state. You say we

6:46

get to help. this realization

6:48

of consciousness, be it the

6:51

service of humanity, the service

6:53

of life. So that's it.

6:55

That's the story and ever

6:58

since I've been hovering between

7:00

the different worlds of self-

7:02

transformation, therapy, and academic philosophy.

7:05

That's a powerful unfoldment. When

7:07

you were 23 and this

7:09

occurred to you, was this

7:12

from a state of meditation

7:14

or was just like just

7:16

a spontaneous opening? or what

7:19

was the condition of your

7:21

life at that time, did

7:23

you have some kind of

7:26

practice or did this just

7:28

like a spontaneous awakening? Well,

7:30

it's a combination because you

7:33

can never prepare for it.

7:35

You can read about it,

7:37

but it's never what you

7:40

read that there is actually

7:42

the happening, the revelation. So

7:45

this took place in the

7:47

midst of a silence retreat

7:49

in the presence of my

7:52

first guru, but it was

7:54

completely unexpected. It was just,

7:56

I would say a moment

7:59

of... sincere observation in which

8:01

I was looking for that

8:03

for that all the familiar

8:06

personal self of mine and

8:08

I just couldn't find it.

8:10

So I only found space

8:13

instead and that space became

8:15

instantly filled with this kind

8:17

of gushing universal love and

8:20

I amness. I understand that.

8:22

That reminds me of my

8:24

first Awaken initiation as well.

8:27

I died actually in a

8:29

lucid dream. It was very

8:32

painful when I woke up.

8:34

The love that penetrated my

8:36

being was beyond description is

8:39

exactly what you were saying.

8:41

And everything was shiny and

8:43

glowing with the consciousness of

8:46

beauty, beauty beyond description. And

8:48

I was a senior at

8:50

USC at the time on

8:53

track to go to med

8:55

school. And I could never

8:57

get back in the box.

9:00

And I had to discover

9:02

what had happened to me.

9:04

And then that's when I

9:07

bumped into the mystical teachings

9:09

of all the greats, you

9:11

know. So I really understand

9:14

what you're saying. When that

9:16

happens, you just see life

9:18

differently. You don't, the personality

9:21

construct just kind of falls

9:23

apart. And the life of

9:26

whatever name we want to

9:28

call that is oozing through

9:30

you. When that occurred in

9:33

that meditation retreat, did the

9:35

guru at that time notice?

9:37

That a shift had taken

9:40

place? Did you explain it?

9:42

Did you stay in silence?

9:44

What was the ramification and

9:47

result of that at that

9:49

moment? Well, at first it

9:51

was so uncontainable that I

9:54

couldn't speak or express myself.

9:56

I was just there. to

9:58

be honest, for one year,

10:01

for a complete year, I

10:03

was just sitting in my

10:05

little room crying out of sheer

10:08

happiness and laughing out of

10:10

sheer happiness. And so it

10:12

was just uncontainable, but at

10:14

a certain point, it

10:16

became so uncontainable that

10:19

I wrote to my guru. I

10:21

wrote to him, I don't know

10:24

what to do. I'm confused. I'm

10:26

speechless. I'm overwhelmed. I'm overwhelmed. And

10:28

then he wrote to me this

10:31

recognition, he wrote, these are the

10:33

baby steps of a Buddha, this

10:35

is how he called it. And well,

10:37

but these were definitely baby

10:40

steps. So, and he helped me

10:42

get, stand on my feet. Mm-hmm.

10:44

So when we talk about the

10:47

individual consciousness and

10:49

collective consciousness, I know you're

10:51

doing a lot of work

10:53

or you speak a lot about,

10:55

you know, this particular time in which

10:58

we're living with this lot of polarization,

11:00

a lot of tumult, you know, how

11:02

do you define individual consciousness,

11:04

collective consciousness, and then obviously

11:06

the consciousness that's necessary to

11:08

move through this particular state

11:10

that humanity is moving through.

11:12

It's very, it's very tumultuous. Exactly.

11:15

And I think that's when we...

11:17

When we look at the

11:19

condition of the world, of

11:21

course, we need to ask

11:23

ourselves why it is so,

11:25

because too often our attention

11:28

is focused on the external

11:30

realities. What we see,

11:33

the problems, social polarization,

11:35

and the animosity,

11:38

us versus them thinking, but

11:40

then we need to ask

11:42

ourselves, where does this come

11:45

from? and where we

11:47

need to really take

11:49

an honest look at

11:51

the mind that gives

11:54

rise to the world.

11:56

Because really the

11:58

world is not... some kind

12:00

of external reality imposed

12:03

on us. That's a

12:05

very important point. Now,

12:07

when we talk about

12:10

collective consciousness or we

12:12

need to remind ourselves that

12:14

there is a difference between

12:17

consciousness and thinking

12:19

or the collective way of

12:22

thinking, the collective way of

12:24

thinking, the collective mind.

12:26

Yes. For collective

12:29

consciousness is actually

12:31

something fantastic. It

12:34

is the discovery

12:36

that there is

12:38

just one self-presenting

12:40

all, manifesting itself as

12:43

all, but really what

12:45

our problem is our

12:48

form of thinking. And

12:50

that's the kind of,

12:52

that's the source of our.

12:54

problems and that kind of

12:57

that source is what I

12:59

call the rigid mind. Regid

13:01

mind. Yes, the rigid

13:03

mind with mental rigidity

13:05

is this this kind of

13:07

mind that is entrenched

13:09

in in fixed identities,

13:11

in rigid narratives,

13:13

unchanging narratives and

13:16

absolute perspectives, unquestionable

13:19

perspectives. And the fact

13:22

there is that all sides of

13:24

the debate, all sides of

13:26

this kind of heated

13:28

conflict are inflicted with

13:31

this kind of rigid

13:33

mind. So we all have

13:35

that and we all need

13:38

to learn through meditation and

13:40

through spiritual practice that

13:42

the mind is free enough

13:44

to maintain a flexible.

13:47

healthy and creative

13:49

distance between itself

13:51

and its identity, narratives,

13:54

perspectives. Only with

13:56

this kind of fluidity

13:59

can we develop

14:01

not a tolerance but actually

14:04

an all-inclusive and

14:06

multi-perspective awareness that that

14:08

faces complexity and that

14:11

is able also to

14:13

unite forces for the

14:15

sake of an actually

14:18

constructive future. I appreciate

14:20

when you broke that down

14:22

that that basically this entrenched

14:25

mindset of opinions and perceptions

14:27

and points of view which

14:29

people are holding on to. So

14:31

tight, I call that oftentimes thinking

14:33

nests. It's not really real thinking,

14:36

it's actually thinking nests. And

14:38

that creates a whole perception that

14:40

then creates experience. And

14:42

collective experience, and that experience

14:44

is not eternal, it's not

14:47

real, it's transitory, but people

14:49

get stuck in that perception and

14:51

actually fight for their opinion.

14:53

And this is what you're

14:55

describing. So when one can step

14:58

back is through meditation. And I

15:00

like the way you say it

15:02

and distance yourself from that. You have

15:04

the opportunity to see this

15:06

consciousness, this love, this integrity,

15:09

this life that's common to

15:11

everyone. And I can tell by

15:13

your description that. It's not

15:15

merely academic. You've been initiated.

15:17

You've actually seen it. Oh,

15:19

yes. It's far from merely

15:21

academic. Yes. The academic is

15:23

just at the service of

15:26

this direct realization. It's just

15:28

a vehicle for the expression of

15:30

this kind of realization. Absolutely. I

15:32

remember I was at a college

15:34

speaking a few months ago, and

15:37

the president wanted to meet me

15:39

after you heard me speak. He was

15:41

really fascinated with what I had to

15:43

say and he says, he said, well,

15:45

I'm an academic and I love being

15:47

academic. He says, but the way you

15:49

were speaking, he just wanted me to

15:51

break out of my academic space for

15:53

a moment and actually experience what you

15:55

were talking about. You know, I said,

15:57

well, your academic is not going to

15:59

get. you there, you're going to

16:01

have to meditate, you're going to

16:03

have to like separate yourself from

16:05

that for a moment to have an

16:07

insight. But like, you know, once you

16:10

see it, you can't unsee it. Exactly.

16:12

Explain how, you know, are you really

16:14

into technology, social media, AI,

16:16

you know, how does that influence

16:18

our collective consciousness for the

16:20

better or for destruction? Yes,

16:22

well again, I think first

16:25

of all, perhaps we should

16:27

divide the discussion of technology

16:29

into two. There is of

16:32

all social media and what

16:34

this kind of social polarization

16:37

is manifested on social media,

16:39

but then there is AI. And

16:41

these are two different firms, I

16:43

think. Well, first of all,

16:46

when it comes to social media,

16:48

we tend to again think how

16:51

technology influences us, how

16:53

technology shapes our minds,

16:55

our minds, and so on and

16:58

so on. And we tend to

17:00

forget that technology is not some

17:02

external force, and that

17:04

social media hasn't invented

17:07

anything. It hasn't invented

17:09

polarizations, just a reflection

17:12

of the way in

17:14

which our individual and

17:17

collective operates. thinking or

17:19

thinking that operates. And

17:22

what social media does

17:24

is that it's an

17:27

amplifier of destructive forces

17:29

within us. So the

17:32

question is who created the

17:34

problem? Why these these

17:36

kind of destructive forces

17:39

seem so alluring

17:41

it was? And I think

17:43

we don't pay enough

17:45

attention to these questions.

17:47

Why? Why this information

17:50

has some such a great power

17:52

over us? Because there

17:54

is something inside us

17:56

that has remained uncaltered.

18:00

Why? I like that. I

18:02

like that. Why

18:04

repolarization attracts us,

18:06

righteousness, dividing the

18:08

world into absolute

18:10

goodness and absolute badness, as

18:13

if we were living in

18:15

the in the mythical world

18:18

of the Lord of the

18:20

Rings. Yes. So the problem,

18:23

our real problem is that

18:25

the real... force that

18:27

has been developing throughout

18:29

the ages has been

18:32

technology. And technology

18:34

advances rapidly while our

18:36

level of consciousness

18:39

is lagging behind. So then

18:41

what happens is the

18:43

technology becomes a servant

18:46

and expression of

18:48

these destructive forces.

18:50

So this is what we need

18:53

to see how we learn to

18:55

educate. our minds to become

18:57

minds that

18:59

actually prefer

19:01

unity, prefer

19:03

complexity, prefer

19:05

non-reactive listening,

19:07

prefer constructive

19:09

response to life. And

19:12

that requires a tremendous

19:14

education rather than just

19:16

trying to turn off

19:18

the light, the fire

19:21

of that of that

19:23

explosive social media.

19:25

No, I appreciate what you're

19:27

reminding us that social media

19:29

is a reflection of what's

19:32

within us. Like you say,

19:34

it didn't create anything. It's

19:36

actually reflecting to us who we think

19:38

we are in any given moment.

19:40

And so if we're, as you

19:42

used to use the word, uncultivated

19:45

or are spiritually or emotionally

19:47

immature, then social media

19:49

just becomes a wasteland

19:51

of our immature impulses.

19:53

being expressed. So it's like social media.

19:55

It's like it's kind of neutral. It's

19:58

like electricity. You can use electricity. to

20:00

use this microphone, or

20:02

you can use it

20:04

to electrocute somebody,

20:06

but it's whose hands is

20:08

it in. And so as we

20:10

become more cultivated,

20:12

social media can actually

20:15

be a place of inspiration.

20:17

Great art, creativity,

20:20

love, unity, having really

20:22

creative dialogues, but

20:24

because it's in the

20:26

hands often of an unawake.

20:29

uncultivated society, it

20:31

then affects us because people

20:33

would then become addicted to

20:35

that downward trend and they don't

20:37

even know they're addicted. They get

20:40

into silos and become addicted to

20:42

hearing their own voice over and

20:44

over and over again. Yes, yes.

20:46

The rabbit hole of Alice in

20:48

Wonderland, so to speak. Those well

20:51

isolated the eco-chambers, yes. Yeah, absolutely.

20:53

Now, what about AI? What do

20:55

you think? The ethical aspects of

20:57

AI and how it, you know,

21:00

how do you see AI in

21:02

terms of the unfoldment of our

21:04

collective consciousness?

21:06

Yes, well, you know, like I think

21:08

this is one of the most important

21:11

and interesting questions that

21:13

we are facing nowadays.

21:16

Once again, I hate

21:18

to be repetitive, but

21:20

just to repeat at

21:22

the very same principle,

21:24

when we think of

21:26

AI, and I think

21:28

that's our philosophical confusion,

21:30

this is what all

21:32

philosophers are concerned with,

21:34

one question. They think

21:36

about, about... how AI might

21:39

develop consciousness, whether it

21:41

can develop a consciousness

21:44

or not, whether that

21:46

AI can become completely

21:48

unbridled and destroy

21:51

humanity and so on

21:53

and so forth. But really, AI

21:55

is not an other, it's not

21:58

like an other species. pitting

22:00

species, AI is

22:02

an extension or reflection

22:05

of the human mind.

22:07

So what it does is

22:10

actually it reveals to

22:12

us that that many

22:14

parts of our mind are

22:17

actually imitable and

22:19

replicable because they

22:21

have some mechanical

22:24

aspects. You see?

22:26

So then... It brings

22:28

us to ask the

22:30

question, as the Great

22:32

Judeo Christian Muti, asked,

22:34

back in the early

22:36

1980s, he asked, if

22:39

machines can take over

22:41

what we humans

22:43

can do and still do

22:45

it better than us, then

22:47

what does it mean to

22:50

be human? What are we?

22:52

And I think we

22:54

need to ask

22:57

this question vehemently,

22:59

because have we learned

23:01

to cultivate all

23:04

those non-mechanical and

23:07

therefore irreparable aspects

23:10

of our being? You

23:12

see? The question

23:14

that we need to

23:16

ask is, are we

23:18

really needed? Perhaps we're

23:20

not. You see that there's a there

23:22

is a no idea you're bringing

23:25

up a philosophical question here

23:27

that yeah it's very

23:30

interesting it's a burning question yeah

23:32

yeah you brought a Christian

23:34

Murdi I used to go

23:36

see Christian Murdi in person every

23:38

year in oh hi no that was

23:40

lucky yeah that was my my

23:42

trek me and my friend would go

23:45

to and spend days in oh hi

23:47

and sit at his feet and listen

23:49

to him dialogue and talk and you

23:51

know so when you brought up that

23:53

name it just it's the whole history

23:55

of my life just kind of unfold

23:58

it he was very demanding and very

24:00

enlightened that he could activate

24:02

you in very powerful ways. So I

24:05

really appreciate you bringing him up

24:07

one of my teachers. Back in what

24:09

you were saying in terms of, the way

24:11

I look at it, is that, you know, we

24:13

haven't explored yet, I'm talking

24:16

about on a global context, there

24:18

are individuals who have the

24:20

great potential of who we

24:22

are. And so because of that, we

24:25

are relying on AI to do certain

24:27

things. I look at a lot of

24:29

these things as prosthetics of who we are.

24:31

Like we haven't activated

24:33

a lot of that genius within

24:36

our own consciousness, our own

24:38

brain. We're not meditating. We're

24:40

not discovering the potential of

24:42

a human being. And so we

24:44

end up relying on a prosthetic

24:46

that you just said is an

24:49

extension of us. And so then

24:51

we rely on it, and then we

24:53

kind of atrophy, our own

24:55

potential. And that's the dilemma

24:57

you're talking about, you know.

24:59

It's like, I believe we are

25:02

needed, you know, but we're needed

25:04

if we activate our potential,

25:06

which is why we meditate. Exactly,

25:09

yes, that's a brilliant point,

25:12

you know, where Krishna Muti

25:14

said that he prophesized, actually,

25:16

it was in 1980. He

25:19

said that at a certain

25:21

point, AI would challenge us

25:24

because we would be calculating

25:26

only our mechanical

25:28

parts and then we

25:31

would reach a point

25:33

in which we would

25:35

have only two options,

25:38

either resulting to entertainment

25:40

or or begin to all

25:42

going within. So that's

25:44

so these are our two

25:46

options. And I think we

25:49

are... Right, the precipice.

25:51

Yes, exactly. Because

25:54

entertainment is so

25:56

big. Yeah. It's dwarfing.

25:58

I call it... entertainment,

26:00

the great pirate, because it

26:02

steals our attention from our

26:04

own creativity. We'll applaud an excellent

26:07

movie or an excellent artist's

26:10

singing or excellent artist's sculpting.

26:12

We'll project all of our

26:14

own creativity onto an

26:16

individual and become entertained, but

26:18

we won't, oftentimes, as

26:20

humans, we won't use that same

26:22

impulse to go within ourselves

26:25

and become creative. So then

26:27

entertainment becomes a great

26:29

pirate, steals our attention,

26:31

and again, we'll see something great,

26:33

but it doesn't really move

26:35

us to do something great

26:37

ourselves. We just go get

26:40

more entertainment. We go get

26:42

more entertainment. We get more entertainment.

26:44

Exactly. Yes, and then you

26:46

say I take so for

26:48

all the usual mechanical aspects

26:51

and then what are we going to

26:53

do? But this is what I think. It

26:55

is either a danger or like

26:57

some kind of an apocalyptic

27:00

prophecy or an opportunity.

27:02

And I think we

27:04

should choose the opportunity to

27:06

be asking with a sense

27:09

of urgency what it is

27:11

to be human. And the

27:13

first thing, and that's really

27:16

enlightening, is to realize that

27:18

even by starting to ask

27:20

this question. then what is

27:23

it to be human, we

27:25

are already beginning to

27:27

distinguish ourselves from AI

27:30

because we are activating

27:32

our reflective self-consciousness, our

27:35

ability to detach from

27:37

our experience and to

27:40

move away from the mechanical.

27:42

And then we can begin to

27:44

make real use of the

27:46

asset of our consciousness by

27:48

expanding our mind, by discovering...

27:50

a part of our

27:53

consciousness that are not

27:55

memory and knowledge base

27:57

by tapping into nonlinear

27:59

creativity. but being able

28:01

to reflect on our mechanism

28:04

or on our patterns

28:06

and depart from them

28:08

by cultivating an intelligence

28:11

of listening. Instead

28:13

of thinking and of

28:16

course, perhaps most

28:18

importantly, by activating

28:20

our awakened heart

28:22

because the awakened

28:24

heart certainly distinguishes

28:27

us from... from any

28:29

mechanical activity of AI.

28:32

Absolutely. And so you're

28:34

basically articulating

28:36

ageless wisdom that has

28:38

been sought to be

28:41

articulated through Guatemala, the

28:43

Buddha, the compassion, you're

28:45

bringing all of this

28:47

back into this awareness. And

28:50

that does distinguish us

28:52

from AI. You know, to actually

28:54

grow into loving to loving

28:57

to love. deep compassion,

28:59

non-judgmentalism, this,

29:01

hey I can't do that. They can

29:04

do the mechanical aspect of

29:06

certain things, but this

29:09

self-reflective aspect of us,

29:11

that is given to the image

29:13

and likeness of God, who

29:16

we are activating our potential.

29:18

Now you talk about the

29:20

concept of expansion of

29:23

consciousness, and the healing of

29:25

the collective trauma. break that

29:27

down for us a little bit,

29:30

the expansion of consciousness, and

29:32

then tie it into the healing of the

29:34

collective trauma that we're

29:36

witnessing. Yes. Well, first of

29:38

all, it's very important to

29:40

understand because sometimes when we

29:43

speak of consciousness, it always

29:45

sounds elusive and mystical and

29:47

as if it's out there,

29:49

but really, really consciousness begins

29:51

with the awareness that we

29:53

have right now, our reflective

29:56

self-consciousness. our ability to be

29:58

aware of our life. Now,

30:00

this ability is something we

30:02

all exercise daily, ongoingly, and

30:05

still it is a complete

30:07

mystery to us. So because

30:09

usually that part that is

30:12

a war is completely trapped

30:14

as a result of its

30:17

identification with the experiences which

30:19

it observes and of which

30:21

it is a war. So

30:24

what we need is to

30:26

extricate it like a genie

30:29

from the bottle. It's like

30:31

this kind of giant, but

30:33

it's very important also to

30:36

understand that when we speak

30:38

of expansion of consciousness, we

30:40

have this sense, this illusion

30:43

that it's something that the

30:45

consciousness needs to be extended.

30:48

In actuality, consciousness is already...

30:50

extremely expanded, infinitely expanded, and

30:52

we only created in it

30:55

certain walls. Certain walls says

30:57

through our thoughts, through our

30:59

beliefs. So in reality consciousness

31:02

is all the reason. It

31:04

is like the infinite container

31:07

in which life appears and

31:09

into which life disappears. So

31:11

consciousness is who we are

31:14

right now, only without all

31:16

those blockages and hindrances and

31:18

limits boundaries we've created through

31:21

our thoughts. So a major

31:23

part of these blockages is

31:26

this kind of us and

31:28

them, this kind of popularity

31:30

of me versus them. And

31:33

this is actually the root

31:35

cause of a collective channel.

31:37

We've divided the world into

31:40

two halves also politically. And

31:42

as a result, all our

31:45

collective traumas are the outcome

31:47

of a contracted consciousness that

31:49

gave rise to a fragmented

31:52

world. So here again, we

31:54

return to that rigid line,

31:56

you see, because within that

31:59

grand boundless consciousness, we've created

32:01

rigid identities. narratives and then

32:04

absolute perspectives unquestionable, all those

32:06

rigid religions, groups and ideologies,

32:08

and as a result, we've

32:11

given rise to countless traumas.

32:13

So this is exactly how

32:16

we need to move from

32:18

that kind of rigid mind

32:20

back to consciousness. In consciousness,

32:23

we finally, the unity is

32:25

not just a word. It's

32:27

not a concept, it's a

32:30

profound experience and only through

32:32

profound experience can we ever

32:35

become convinced that it is

32:37

real, that that's the reality

32:39

of our lives and it's

32:42

more real than what we

32:44

perceive as an object-based world.

32:46

Absolutely. Now you broke that

32:49

down powerfully and I'm so

32:51

in alignment with what you're

32:54

saying. Because I would say,

32:56

I say that we are

32:58

pure awareness in a field

33:01

of infinite consciousness. And so

33:03

our awareness is oftentimes, as

33:05

you indicated, trapped by lesser

33:08

identities, you know, with the

33:10

son and daughter of our

33:13

parents, where we were born,

33:15

what schools we went to,

33:17

their interpretation of past experiences.

33:20

And that's content in our

33:22

awareness, but it's not who

33:24

we are. So we're expanding

33:27

our awareness. in a field

33:29

of infinite boundless consciousness. And

33:32

whenever we have an insight

33:34

that expands our awareness in...

33:36

to this infinite field of

33:39

boundless consciousness, and we become

33:41

more ourselves. And as you

33:43

indicated, that is what dissolves

33:46

trauma, because the personality construct

33:48

that's traumatized is really a

33:51

figment of our imagination. It's

33:53

not who we are. But

33:55

as long as we're identified

33:58

that way, then we will

34:00

experience that trauma will identify

34:03

ourselves as a survivor of

34:05

it. We'll wear a badge

34:07

about it. try to pick

34:10

through it psychologically on a

34:12

psychologist couch to see all

34:14

the genesis of it. But

34:17

ultimately through the art and

34:19

science of consciousness exploration, meditation,

34:22

it begins to unravel because

34:24

that personality does it. It's

34:26

not who we are. This

34:29

is what I'm hearing you

34:31

say as well, you know,

34:33

and we become our own

34:36

therapist through meditation. That's a

34:38

radical statement you're making here.

34:41

Because I think I think

34:43

that is quite a thoughts

34:45

provoking here. Well, I can

34:48

I can just give you

34:50

a description, a brief description

34:52

of how I work with

34:55

Thomas because I think that

34:57

that easy echoes all this

35:00

kind of radical statement. What

35:02

I do is I work

35:04

with sometimes really uncontainable and

35:07

deeply. deep-sitted traumas, but then

35:09

and and and it's it's

35:11

a first it's actually hard

35:14

to imagine that that one

35:16

would even agree to return

35:19

to that traumatic memory. But

35:21

what we do is that

35:23

we first expand the person's

35:26

consciousness. We expand the consciousness

35:28

to such a degree that

35:30

the person experiences themselves as

35:33

far bigger than their memories.

35:35

far bigger than their thoughts,

35:38

far bigger than their life

35:40

experiences. With this kind of

35:42

greatness, they feel such bliss,

35:45

such joy. such unaffectedness that

35:47

they are willing to revisit

35:49

that trauma in build that

35:52

memory that experience with their

35:54

newfound presence and begin to

35:57

uproot all those irrational memory

35:59

connections that were formed in

36:01

their traumatic event through the

36:04

power of their own awareness.

36:06

So this is this is

36:09

the point when we realize

36:11

that we are bigger than

36:13

the memory That is the

36:16

beginning of arguing Yes, and

36:18

then when you combine that

36:20

with the observer effect With

36:23

intention to expand one's consciousness

36:25

Everything that they observe changes

36:28

on a subatomic level based

36:30

on observation with intention and

36:32

having the identity that they're

36:35

bigger then the event is

36:37

kind of putting the observer

36:39

effect on spiritual steroids. Oh

36:42

wonderful, we have just wonderfully

36:44

said, yes, yes exactly, that's

36:47

the, again, this is how

36:49

we use the power of

36:51

awareness to change the content

36:54

of that which it observes.

36:56

Right, exactly, yes. But people

36:58

have to be willing, you

37:01

know, they really, they can't

37:03

argue for their limited... experience.

37:06

You know, they have to

37:08

really, as you've indicated, you

37:10

have to expand their awareness,

37:13

see that they're bigger than

37:15

it, observe. nerve it and

37:17

they can see the underlying

37:20

lies that they've told themselves.

37:22

It has nothing to do

37:25

with their real identity as

37:27

only to do with their

37:29

experience. And then freedom begins

37:32

to happen. So you work

37:34

with a lot of people

37:36

this way? Yes, yes, and

37:39

also teach psychotherapist, psychologists, psychiatrists

37:41

to do the same inner

37:44

clinics. So that is called

37:46

the expansion method. Yeah. Yeah.

37:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:51

Yes, exactly. That's in general,

37:53

the expansion method that has

37:56

many variations, some of which

37:58

are therapeutic, but some are

38:00

actually there to enhance our

38:03

decision-making processes, our clarity in

38:05

life. So it's all about

38:07

the realization that once you're

38:10

established, you're firmly established in

38:12

this expanded version of your

38:15

being. You have all of

38:17

a sudden this kind of

38:19

obscurity, mental obscurity, emotion, obscurity,

38:22

all those veils that inhibited

38:24

your ability to seekierly, to

38:26

liberate yourself through the power

38:29

of your own consciousness. All

38:31

this becomes, is removed and

38:34

everything is possible. Absolutely, you're

38:36

reminding me of that Sufi

38:38

statement that says that there

38:41

are seven veils between us

38:43

and God, but there are

38:45

no veils between God and

38:48

us. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah,

38:50

so that, you know, we

38:53

have all these veils and

38:55

perceptions, but the presence, the

38:57

consciousness of God, there's no

39:00

veils between God and us.

39:02

It's all us that are

39:04

creating the sense of separation.

39:07

So even in trauma. or

39:09

just regular life experience. We

39:12

have all these veils and

39:14

beliefs and rigidity of thought

39:16

and opinions and points of

39:19

view. But we don't change

39:21

consciousness. We're just blocking it

39:23

from being the activity of

39:26

our awareness. It comes down

39:28

to practice. It comes down

39:31

to actually practicing the art

39:33

and science of meditation and

39:35

expansion method and asking right

39:38

questions and being sincerely interested.

39:40

We have to be sincerely

39:43

interested. The beginner's mind about

39:45

these practices. because they're lawful

39:47

there. They have repeatable results.

39:50

It's not magic. It's real.

39:52

And you, because of that

39:54

baby Buddha inside, as your

39:57

guru called it, you could

39:59

not see what you've seen.

40:02

And it's led you now

40:04

to go back to academia.

40:06

but with a grander vision

40:09

and be able to articulate

40:11

the ineffable learning how to

40:13

articulate that which can't be

40:16

articulated and bring it into

40:18

an academic setting where people

40:21

are beginning to get a

40:23

peek of what words cannot

40:25

even convey. You know, you

40:28

do it some great work.

40:30

Yeah, sure. Thank you so

40:32

much. Yeah, I appreciate that.

40:35

I left academia. I don't

40:37

think the medical model as

40:40

it is today is really

40:42

what I'm supposed to do.

40:44

You know, I don't want

40:47

to be trained to be

40:49

a drug dealer, you know,

40:51

but I didn't know I

40:54

was going to do what

40:56

I'm doing now. It emerged

40:59

because I had no conscious

41:01

idea that I would be

41:03

a public person teaching consciousness

41:06

or establishing a spiritual community

41:08

or anything like that was

41:10

not, that it just formed

41:13

around me. so to speak.

41:15

Yeah. I had to give

41:18

up my resistance and say

41:20

yes to it. Yeah. Yes,

41:22

yes, that's how the best

41:25

things in life happen. Yeah,

41:27

we have to overcome our

41:30

resistance. No, I don't want

41:32

to do this. Exactly, exactly.

41:34

Well, you know, the name

41:37

of the podcast is Take

41:39

Back Your Mind. Yes. What

41:41

is your go-to move when

41:44

you find yourself, your mind

41:46

hijacked by the world of

41:49

experience? You know, I know

41:51

it's meditation at some form,

41:53

but what is your basic?

41:56

What is, what do you

41:58

do when you get caught

42:00

up? so to speak emotionally

42:03

or mentally hijacked by the

42:05

world of appearances? Yes, that's

42:08

a good question. Well, first

42:10

of all, it's very important

42:12

to understand that when if

42:15

I go through a difficult,

42:17

truly challenging experiences and experience

42:19

and we all go through

42:22

such experiences, I would never

42:24

let it take root. Because

42:27

what happens is if we

42:29

give it some time, it

42:31

suddenly takes root in us

42:34

and it begins to develop

42:36

certain, you can say, calming

42:38

tendencies, irrational conclusions, and some

42:41

twisted... Wait, wait, I got

42:43

to stop you right there.

42:46

I watch people do that.

42:48

I watch people get caught

42:50

up and they do make

42:53

irrational conclusions. They create worst

42:55

case scenarios. and just runs

42:57

a muck. I didn't mean

43:00

to interrupt you, but I

43:02

wanted to get that one

43:05

there. People, they get, I've

43:07

been with people and they

43:09

do these irrational conclusions and

43:12

they go way to the

43:14

end of a worst case

43:17

scenario or they beat themselves

43:19

up to such a degree

43:21

that they feel worthless and

43:24

they made the biggest mistake

43:26

in the world and it's

43:28

all irrational. Yeah. Exactly, exactly.

43:31

Or they generalize. our conclusions

43:33

based on a one-year single

43:36

event and to apply this

43:38

to all of life, all

43:40

our... experiences. This is what

43:43

life is all about. This

43:45

is how people are and

43:47

so on and so on.

43:50

Or this is who I

43:52

am or what I am.

43:55

So what I do is

43:57

instantly and as soon as

43:59

possible is that I use

44:02

my own techniques for the

44:04

expansion of consciousness, but each

44:06

person can choose their own

44:09

suitable. techniques for the expansion

44:11

of consciousness. And what I

44:14

do is that I bring

44:16

myself back to that natural

44:18

state of order, harmony and

44:21

love. I return to be

44:23

bigger than the event, bigger

44:25

than my thoughts, bigger than

44:28

my memories, and I return

44:30

to that place that has

44:33

never been shaped by memories

44:35

or life events. And from

44:37

there I derive my energy,

44:40

my force, my forces to

44:42

return and embrace life. Because

44:44

it's important to understand that

44:47

we can sometimes use spirituality

44:49

wrongly in a way that

44:52

is merely designed to pull

44:54

us out of life or

44:56

protect us from life or

44:59

give us a sense of

45:01

force empowerment. Whereas I believe

45:03

in spirituality that endows me

45:06

with the power to embrace

45:08

life without any resistance, any

45:11

escape and any suppression. Right.

45:13

It's not escapism. It's like

45:15

total, the total embracing of

45:18

what's happening, but from a

45:20

different perspective, a different point

45:23

of view. So you're not

45:25

running away. You're actually embracing

45:27

observing with intention and then...

45:30

allowing transformation to take place.

45:32

It's alchemy. Like it's spiritual

45:34

alchemy with the power of

45:37

your awareness. Yeah. Yeah, our

45:39

work is very similar. Very

45:42

beautiful. Yes, I can sense

45:44

that. Yeah. Yeah, very beautiful.

45:46

So what is the name

45:49

of your latest book? Well,

45:51

the latest book, the one

45:53

that will be published in

45:56

December, actually, is called Your

45:58

Chaco Personality. It's actually a

46:01

typology of personalities based on

46:03

the ancient Chaco system. So

46:05

that's one of my. my

46:08

most enjoyable method. I can

46:10

see the gleam in your

46:12

eye when you're talking, but

46:15

it was like a fun

46:17

book. Exactly, exactly. It's a

46:20

shock of personality. And what's

46:22

the last book that you

46:24

just released? Well, there is

46:27

a, first of all, there

46:29

is an academic book called

46:31

a type of the transformative

46:34

philosophical dialogue, but also there

46:36

is the complete book of

46:39

meditation. And so as you

46:41

can understand, this is how

46:43

I live in this kind

46:46

of strange duality of the

46:48

academic and the mystical. Right.

46:50

Well, we definitely need individuals

46:53

like you that are learning

46:55

to articulate that which can't

46:58

be conveyed by words so

47:00

that we are spiritualizing the

47:02

spirit. And because you've had

47:05

a great insight. then you're

47:07

able to actually help people

47:10

spiritualize their intellect so it

47:12

becomes a great tool for

47:14

exploration into the ineffable. I

47:17

applaud you with that. Somebody

47:19

has to do it. The

47:21

hard work, yes. So it's

47:24

you. You tried you. Grapling

47:26

with the intellect, yes. Right,

47:29

right, right. Well, this has

47:31

been great. Is it anything

47:33

that you want to share

47:36

to those who are watching

47:38

us that we haven't covered

47:40

that? Maybe you would say

47:43

later, oh I should have

47:45

said that, but you know,

47:48

is anything that bubbles up?

47:50

Just perhaps I would like

47:52

to say yes, we discussed

47:55

the intellect as a source

47:57

of, as a vehicle for

47:59

understanding. but it's important to

48:02

understand that, and I think

48:04

that it also relates to

48:07

your own work, that in the

48:09

end, it is the heart that

48:11

is our innermost mind in this

48:13

sense. And it is in the

48:16

heart that we discover the depth

48:18

of our consciousness in the

48:21

heart that we finally know

48:23

who we truly are. So it's.

48:25

It's very important also in

48:27

relation to trauma, if

48:29

we want to heal

48:32

ourselves from trauma, we

48:34

need to tap into the

48:36

heart power. And the heart

48:38

is a source of empowerment.

48:40

We end to perceivative,

48:43

the most vulnerable place,

48:45

the place that we actually

48:48

need to hide a way

48:50

to cover with protective layers.

48:52

in the Hindu and

48:55

Buddhist traditions, they've

48:57

discussed this beautiful

49:00

notion of the inner

49:02

cave of the heart. And

49:04

the inner cave of the

49:06

heart is actually not a

49:08

place. It's like the core

49:11

of the heart, and it

49:13

doesn't need to be protected.

49:16

It's actually the place

49:18

that signifies our

49:20

most unaffected place.

49:22

So this is the place where we

49:25

can start our healing. And I know

49:27

it sounds paradoxical because to

49:29

keep our hearts open feels

49:31

like the opposite of what

49:33

we want to do when

49:35

we feel traumatized. But

49:38

the more we keep

49:40

our hearts open, the

49:42

more indestructible we experience

49:44

ourselves to be. Absolutely. He

49:46

does sound paradoxical,

49:48

but it can't be touched. you know,

49:51

our real nature and being can't be

49:53

touched. And I mean, even the physical heart

49:55

has more brain neurons than the brain

49:57

itself, you know, so it has a...

50:00

powerful intelligence. So we want

50:02

to live from our heart

50:04

metaphorically, spiritually, and really keep

50:06

our heart open so that

50:09

we begin to discover greater

50:11

dimensions of our own true

50:13

nature and our true being.

50:16

Shai Tabuli, thank you so

50:18

much for being with us

50:20

today. Absolutely appreciate you. How

50:23

can people be in touch

50:25

with you? Well, I always

50:27

invite people to my YouTube

50:29

channel because it contains over

50:32

800 videos, including numerous guided

50:34

meditations, expansion meditations, and explanations

50:36

about how we can integrate

50:39

spirituality into a fearless life.

50:41

And there's also on my

50:43

official website, you can find

50:46

on the main page. There

50:48

is a free challenge of

50:50

seven days of expansion of

50:52

positive emotions. So this kind

50:55

of free challenge can enable

50:57

you to experience directly the

50:59

expansion of consciousness, the joy,

51:02

the bliss of having your

51:04

mind unbound. Thank you so

51:06

very much, brother, for being

51:09

with us today and continue

51:11

to do the great work

51:13

you're doing. Appreciate you. Thank

51:15

you so much for your

51:18

support. It's been such an

51:20

honor to be with you.

51:22

Thank you. My joy. God

51:25

bless you. To everyone, this

51:27

has been Michael B. Beckwith.

51:29

We're shy to bully. Have

51:32

a beautiful magnific today. Go

51:34

back and listen to this

51:36

again or watch this again

51:39

and hear things you may

51:41

not have heard the first

51:43

time. that this interview passed

51:45

through your awareness. And you'll

51:48

catch an insight that will

51:50

ultimately shift your behavior, perception,

51:52

and allow you to become

51:55

more you. Peace and blessings.

51:57

Thank you shy. Peace and

51:59

radical blessings. This is our

52:02

moment and take back your

52:04

mind where we actually practice.

52:06

So we come out of

52:08

merely talking about transformation and

52:11

actually practice the art and

52:13

science of meditation, even it's

52:15

for a few moments. that

52:18

we can begin to become

52:20

aware that we are the

52:22

observer that transforms our life

52:25

based on observation with intention.

52:27

And during this time in

52:29

the world of appearances, that

52:31

is, this polarization, hate crimes,

52:34

seem to be rising. At

52:36

least that's what's reported to

52:38

us by the media. There

52:41

is Islamophobia, there's anti-Semitism, there's

52:43

racism, there's bigotry, there's homophobia,

52:45

all these different kinds of

52:48

things that are happening within

52:50

the human experience. What are

52:52

we here to do on

52:54

the planet? We're here to

52:57

love. We're here to perfect

52:59

our loving. And so if

53:01

the mind gets caught and

53:04

snagged in any of those

53:06

particular limited perceptions, it means

53:08

that we're in prison. We've

53:11

been imprisoned by eight. And

53:13

this is a time of

53:15

great reckoning where people are

53:18

waking up and coming back

53:20

to an awareness that love.

53:22

is real. Compassion is a

53:24

very high form of love.

53:27

Peace is the dynamic of

53:29

harmonizing good. So invite you

53:31

to turn within with me

53:34

for a moment. Have your

53:36

feet placed upon the ground

53:38

hands on your lap facing

53:41

upward as a sign of

53:43

receptivity. Rest in the breath.

53:45

This will be least. And

53:51

I want you to

53:53

think about bringing to

53:55

your awareness an infant

53:57

in your family. Think

53:59

about your mother as

54:02

a baby. Think about

54:04

yourself. Think about a

54:06

baby that was born

54:08

into your family and

54:10

just allow for the

54:13

feeling tone of love

54:15

and compassion that you

54:17

will have for this

54:19

infant. Just feel the

54:21

love and the compassion.

54:28

And allow every breath

54:31

that you take to

54:33

expand your awareness of

54:36

this love and this

54:38

compassion for this little

54:41

baby. This baby hasn't

54:43

done anything wrong. This

54:46

hasn't formed limited opinions

54:48

about anything. It's just

54:51

in a state of

54:53

being. Now,

55:02

catch the feeling

55:04

tone of this

55:06

love, this compassion,

55:08

but distinguish it

55:10

from the intent.

55:12

Just feel love.

55:15

Just feel compassion.

55:17

In every breath

55:19

you take, let

55:21

it feel the

55:23

room you're in

55:25

right now. You're

55:27

surrounded by this

55:29

love. infinite

55:32

peace. That this

55:34

inner atmosphere fill

55:37

up your home,

55:40

your neighborhood, your

55:42

state, let it

55:45

keep expanding, the

55:47

country, you're residing,

55:50

the country, you're

55:53

residing in. You're

55:55

breaking free. All

55:58

limited, phobias. And

56:01

you're aware of

56:03

the frequency of

56:06

love, the same

56:08

love you have

56:11

for that anything.

56:14

They'll expand to

56:16

all countries. All

56:19

peoples and all

56:21

countries. Regardless of

56:24

color of skin.

56:30

geographic origins of

56:32

birth, religions. You're

56:34

growing in the

56:36

awareness of love,

56:39

compassion for all

56:41

beings. Very planted

56:43

upon which we

56:45

live is now

56:47

embraced in your

56:49

atmosphere and awareness

56:51

of love and

56:54

awareness of love

56:56

and compassion and

56:58

You're becoming a

57:00

vibrational antidote for

57:02

the polarization, the

57:04

hate, the deep

57:07

entrenched sense of

57:09

separation. And you're

57:11

beginning to see

57:13

this love ethic

57:15

that flows through

57:17

that infant. It's

57:20

flowing through everyone.

57:22

Love, vibration. Be

57:24

with that. Your

57:30

mind is becoming disentangled

57:32

from your own opinions

57:34

and compassion is being

57:36

born. Be in this

57:38

field of compassion for

57:40

a moment of silence

57:43

for the entire world

57:45

and all beings, including

57:47

yourself. You're

58:32

breathing in expansion of

58:34

consciousness of compassion and

58:36

love. You're breathing out

58:39

consciousness of dynamic peace,

58:41

expansion of love. The

58:44

whole world is in

58:46

this field. You are

58:48

becoming more you. Not

58:51

entangled by the world

58:53

of appearances, but spiritually

58:56

liberated into ever expanding

58:58

awareness. with life itself.

59:00

The only deep sense

59:03

of gratitude that you

59:05

exist at all, deep

59:07

thanksgiving that you are

59:10

alive, has a unique

59:12

expression of infinite potential.

59:15

We slowly help our

59:17

eyes just bow to

59:19

each other. Thank you

59:22

for these precious moments.

59:24

The perfect stillness. So

59:27

it is. Amen. Thank

59:32

you for participating. Practice,

59:35

practice, practice is the

59:37

order of the day.

59:40

Have a beautiful day.

59:42

Peace and blessings. I

59:45

truly hope that you

59:47

are enjoying Take Back

59:50

Your Mind podcast. The

59:53

Take Back Your Mind

59:55

podcast is sponsored primarily

59:58

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I want you to be

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be wise. Circulate and share.

1:02:36

Peace and blessings. Your time

1:02:38

is very valuable, so I

1:02:40

want to thank you for

1:02:42

lending us your ear and

1:02:45

participating in taking back your

1:02:47

mind. If you want to

1:02:49

submit a question for the

1:02:51

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1:02:53

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1:02:55

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1:02:58

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Until we meet again, take

1:03:22

back your mind, and you

1:03:24

will take back your life.

1:03:26

Peace of blessings.