0:01

Cities generate something between 60 and 80%

0:04

of global economic output measured by

0:06

gross domestic product. Cities are responsible

0:08

for around 60% of

0:10

global waste output. They consume two-thirds

0:12

to three-fourths of global energy. They

0:14

also generate between 75 and 85%

0:17

of global greenhouse gas emissions. If

0:21

we really want all of these

0:23

national level commitments that we've made

0:25

for climate change, sustainability, and all

0:27

of that, to really get implemented,

0:29

we have to take that down

0:31

to the city level. That's where

0:34

the rubber hits the road. Every

0:36

second that we wait to take action

0:38

on climate change and sustainability issues is

0:41

time lost. And so we have to

0:43

think about how we can actually develop

0:45

solutions that can achieve both goals of

0:48

economic growth and productivity and also environmental

0:50

sustainability. From

0:56

PwC's management publication, Strategy in Business,

0:58

this is Take On Tomorrow, the

1:00

podcast that brings together experts from

1:02

around the globe to figure out

1:04

what business could and should be

1:06

doing to tackle some of the

1:08

biggest issues facing the world. I'm

1:11

Lizzie O'Leary, a podcaster and journalist in

1:13

New York. And I'm Ayesha

1:15

Hazarika, a broadcaster and writer in London.

1:18

Today, we're talking about the place

1:21

where more than half the world's

1:23

population lives, cities. By the

1:25

year 2050, the United Nations predict

1:27

that the figure will have risen

1:29

to 70%. A

1:32

change like that brings social, economic

1:34

and environmental challenges. How

1:36

can cities provide the housing, transit,

1:38

economic opportunities and all the other

1:41

amenities we need in a way

1:43

which is equitable and sustainable? To

1:45

find out more, we'll be talking

1:47

to climatologist Angel Xu. She's

1:50

founder of the Data Driven

1:52

EnviroLab, which uses satellites to

1:54

measure how environmentally sustainable and

1:56

how socially inclusive our cities really

1:59

are. But first, let's bring in

2:01

Hazem Ghilal, global leader for cities and

2:03

local government, and a partner with PwC

2:05

Middle East. Hazem, welcome to the show.

2:08

Thank you, Lizzie. Thank you, Aisha. Now,

2:10

Hazem, you work on smart mobility

2:13

and smart cities. Can you explain

2:15

to our listeners what those two

2:17

concepts mean? So let's

2:20

start with smart cities. A smart

2:22

city is a community that is

2:24

connected. It's a

2:26

community where technology enables

2:28

the delivery of smart

2:30

services that can

2:32

benefit the citizens, the residents,

2:34

and the businesses operating

2:37

in that city. On

2:39

the other hand, it is not

2:41

only about technology. Technology is an

2:43

enabler. Now, when we

2:45

think about smart mobility, smart

2:48

mobility is how we actually

2:50

move people, goods, in a

2:53

city, also enabled by technology

2:55

and data. What conversations are

2:57

you having with clients about smart

2:59

cities and smart mobility? We

3:01

can be talking to the

3:03

transport department within a city

3:05

how to introduce an integrated

3:07

transportation system within a city

3:09

that enables us to combine

3:11

different modes of transport and

3:13

to offer choices in that

3:15

city based on using data

3:17

in an intelligent way that

3:19

provides the end user with

3:21

all the different options for

3:23

mobility in that city. We

3:25

could be also having conversations

3:27

with solution providers, for

3:29

example, those providers that want to

3:31

establish an EV charging business in

3:34

a city. So they would be

3:37

asking us for support of how to

3:39

make the business case to show what

3:41

would be the benefits that a

3:44

city would get if they were

3:46

to adopt their solution of EV

3:48

charging. And can you tell us about

3:51

any particular innovations or

3:53

trends which you see as being

3:56

successful and working really well? In

3:59

the smart city space. we are

4:01

seeing a shift leveraging technology

4:03

and analytics into even a

4:05

further level, which is what

4:07

we call cognitive cities. A

4:09

cognitive city would be offering you a

4:12

lot of these decision-making

4:15

opportunities in a more

4:17

proactive way. So you would use

4:19

predictive analytics to analyze

4:21

data from the city and

4:24

again the service receiver, you

4:26

sort of like anticipating their

4:28

needs and offering the service

4:31

using AI, using cognitive thinking

4:33

in a proactive way. Hasem,

4:36

thank you for those thoughts and we're going to

4:38

come back to you in just a few minutes. But

4:41

first, Ayesha, you spoke to Angel

4:43

Shue about some of the key

4:45

issues. That's right, Lizzie. We had

4:47

an absolutely fascinating discussion and I

4:49

began by asking her, what makes

4:51

a city sustainable? Well,

4:53

this is a really tricky question because

4:55

there's not really a one-size-fits-all answer to

4:57

what makes a city sustainable. I think

5:00

there are three dimensions that you can

5:02

think about sustainability. One is

5:04

economic sustainability. So cities generate between

5:06

60 and 80 percent of global

5:09

economic output measured by gross domestic

5:11

product. I think another dimension is

5:13

environmental sustainability. Cities are responsible for

5:16

something around 60 percent of global

5:18

waste output. They consume two-thirds to

5:20

three-fourths of global energy. They also

5:23

generate between 75 and 85 percent

5:25

of global greenhouse gas emissions. And

5:27

they also contribute to higher temperatures compared

5:29

to rural areas. Also equally important is

5:32

the social equity dimension. You have some

5:34

of the wealthiest individuals that live within

5:36

cities as well as some of the poorest. And

5:39

this is one of the reasons why the United

5:41

Nations in 2015 started to

5:43

articulate a global vision for

5:45

what cities should be in

5:47

the future to be both

5:49

sustainable and inclusive. Now you've

5:51

done some really pioneering work

5:53

using satellite data to help

5:55

measure sustainability. Tell us about

5:57

that. How can I help

5:59

you? a satellite look at this

6:01

kind of measurement and work it

6:03

out. We can look at trees and

6:05

also where the location of water bodies

6:08

are, fresh water, oceans, and

6:10

then also environmental conditions. So environmental pollution

6:12

can also be measured and viewed from

6:14

space. So you can actually see algal

6:17

blooms in water bodies, for instance. Satellites,

6:20

because they have sensors, can actually detect

6:22

the degree to which pollutants in the

6:24

troposphere, which is a layer of the

6:26

Earth's atmosphere, actually prevent light

6:28

from penetrating. And then combining

6:30

those data with global circulation

6:33

models and other types of chemical

6:35

transport models that model how pollutants

6:37

move throughout the atmosphere, you

6:39

can actually estimate ground level concentrations to

6:41

air pollutants. And then also

6:44

carbon dioxide emissions and other greenhouse gases

6:46

are increasingly being monitored also by satellites.

6:48

Because satellites have a regular overpass time,

6:51

so they pass over the same position

6:53

on Earth the same time every single

6:55

day, you can actually start to get

6:57

a consistent and regular time series record

7:00

of these phenomenon of air pollution or

7:02

land cover, forest cover, carbon

7:04

dioxide emissions over that same

7:07

spot. And what about the

7:09

equity aspect of sustainability that

7:11

we discussed earlier and inclusion? Can

7:13

satellites give us a picture about

7:16

inequality? That's where satellites become increasingly

7:18

attractive and the promise of Earth

7:20

observation, because then you can get

7:22

this regular and consistent

7:24

record of these different types of

7:27

indicators. So when we combine that

7:29

with the socio demographic data, we

7:31

can start to answer questions like,

7:33

well, do all populations and all

7:35

demographic groups and all age groups,

7:37

do they have the same access

7:40

to green amenities like green space

7:42

and tree cover, and also

7:44

sustainable transit? And are they protected? Are

7:46

they afforded the same protections from air

7:48

pollution and urban heat

7:51

exposure? Let's now dig into

7:53

what you're discovering through your

7:55

data. What kinds of cities

7:58

are performing well? well,

8:00

what kind of regions of the

8:02

world are really leading the

8:04

way and which sort of areas, which cities

8:06

are not doing so well? We

8:08

find that there are generally four

8:10

types of cities. So one type

8:13

would be those Stockholms, Vancouver, London,

8:15

Copenhagen that are performing above average

8:17

on environmental quality, but then they're

8:19

not providing those benefits equally. And

8:21

in particular, they're burdening poorer populations

8:23

within their cities with these higher

8:26

levels of pollution and not the

8:28

same access to the amenities or

8:30

benefits. Then there's another type where

8:32

we're seeing there are some incredibly

8:34

dense cities. So these are Asian

8:36

cities like Tokyo and Kyoto city

8:38

in Japan, where they're performing better

8:40

than average on environmental indicators, but

8:43

they're burdening actually wealthier populations because

8:45

of the product of density, you

8:47

get more cars, you get more

8:49

buildings, and there's maybe not as

8:51

much room for green space in

8:54

dense urban areas. And then we've

8:56

got another type of city where

8:58

if you think about large Chinese

9:00

and Indian cities like Beijing and

9:02

Chengdu, Delhi, they are cities that

9:05

are not performing as well on

9:07

environmental quality. So they have high

9:09

levels of air pollution and

9:11

greenhouse gas emissions. They're performing

9:13

lower than average and also

9:15

burdening poorer populations and

9:18

wealthier populations actually alike. And

9:20

then the last type of city

9:22

would be those in primarily developing

9:25

countries, Monterey, Mexico, Johannesburg, South Africa,

9:27

where they're performing below average on

9:29

environmental conditions, but then also they

9:32

have huge amounts of income inequality

9:34

as well. Half of the cities

9:37

in our index are actually not

9:39

providing the same benefits equally amongst

9:41

all residents and are disproportionately burdening

9:44

poorer populations with greater burden of

9:46

air pollution exposure, urban heat island

9:48

exposure, and not the same benefit

9:50

and access to green space and sustainable transit.

9:53

So some of the amenities that cities should

9:55

be providing for all residents equally. What

9:57

is it about a city that allows it to be

10:00

sustainable. Is it

10:02

the way it's governed? Is

10:04

it specific policy decisions, whether

10:06

it's on housing or

10:08

things like limiting cars? Is

10:11

it geography? It has to be a

10:13

little bit of everything that you mentioned.

10:15

So I think some cities are just

10:17

initially dealt a shorter hand than others.

10:19

I think about Los Angeles, California, which

10:21

is located in the valley. And so

10:23

unfortunately, there's poor air quality and smog

10:25

has been a perennial issue. And

10:28

other cities, yeah, they are wealthier. And so

10:30

they have more economic resources and

10:32

they can invest in more sustainability

10:34

solutions. So I think there's a lot

10:36

of different varieties and reasons. And I

10:39

do think that governance and policies, urban

10:41

planning is certainly part of the solution. I'm

10:43

here in Singapore. And of course, you know,

10:45

they have the benefit of being a relatively

10:47

new nation. They just celebrated their 58th birthday.

10:50

And so they kind of, in a way, got to

10:52

think about how to design the city in a garden

10:55

and garden in a city from the ground up,

10:57

you know, the founders of modern Singapore, they were

11:00

thinking about that, recognizing that they had very limited

11:02

land area, and all these

11:04

different computing pressures of wanting to

11:06

grow GDP, but then also managing

11:08

resources really well. It's been

11:10

really interesting being here and

11:12

seeing the benefits of having

11:14

centralized planning and very thoughtful

11:16

urban design to combat urban

11:18

heat and to minimize pollution

11:20

and try to balance all

11:22

of these things together. There

11:24

were two very different schools

11:27

of thought on the impact

11:29

of sustainability. Some people think

11:31

taking climate or inclusion into

11:33

account can hold back your

11:35

chances of economic success. But

11:37

there are others who take a very

11:39

different view and they think that sustainability

11:41

enables economic success and

11:43

growth. What does your

11:46

data tell you? I think this

11:48

is a really tricky question to answer. At least

11:50

in our index, what we're finding is

11:52

that there are some cities that have

11:55

higher than average GDP and environmental performance.

11:57

So I think that that's evidence that you

11:59

can be... wealthy and you

12:01

can also be environmentally sustainable.

12:04

And then we're also saying that there are

12:06

some cities that are actually less wealthy, but

12:08

they punch above their weight in terms of

12:10

environmental sustainability. I think probably trying to say

12:13

which theory or which camp is right

12:15

is probably not productive. I think every

12:18

second that we wait to take action

12:20

on climate change and sustainability issues

12:22

is time lost. And so

12:24

we have to think about how

12:26

we can actually develop solutions that

12:28

can achieve both goals of economic

12:30

growth and productivity and also environmental

12:32

sustainability. Angel cities are

12:34

really diverse around the

12:37

world. Now there are some super

12:39

modern and innovations can be built

12:42

in, but there are

12:44

other cities which are a real

12:46

kind of jumble of the ancient

12:48

and the modern. How feasible and

12:50

how expensive is it

12:53

to retrofit some

12:55

of these older ancient cities?

12:58

Retrofitting buildings is a key indicator

13:00

for the building sector for urban areas if

13:02

we want to have any hope of staying

13:04

on track. So I think it's definitely feasible,

13:06

but it's also incredibly costly. But I think

13:08

there's a lot that can be done just

13:11

in simple terms of improving

13:13

installation and the ceiling and making sure

13:15

that these buildings are actually not allowing

13:17

a lot of airflow from leaking in

13:19

or out and improving lighting,

13:22

just upgrading to LEDs and more efficient

13:24

lighting sources. That's a huge focus. And

13:26

then improving obviously the air conditioning

13:29

and ventilation systems. I think that's

13:31

also an area where you can really

13:33

improve energy efficiency of buildings. And why

13:36

should business leaders care about this agenda,

13:38

particularly when they are facing very

13:40

difficult economic circumstances at the

13:42

moment? They should care because

13:44

it's kind of a do or die moment

13:46

where we now see that businesses are being

13:48

impacted by climate change. Last

13:51

year when China experienced a record setting

13:53

heat wave, so they had something like

13:55

70 days of temperatures over 100 degrees,

13:57

it hugely... The

14:00

affected supply chains: Because China lost

14:02

a lot of hydro power, a

14:04

lot of their waterways dried up

14:06

and they weren't able to transfer

14:08

goods as easily and that affected

14:10

supply chains that certainly drove up

14:12

inflation and affected businesses. Bottom line,

14:14

and if you're a business leader,

14:16

he is concerned about the sustainability

14:18

of as the the city where

14:20

you operates. Give us an example

14:22

of some practical things that the

14:25

to. Do I always say number

14:27

one know you're in fact is?

14:29

I think that's so incredibly critical

14:31

You can't. Manage what you don't measure

14:33

and you can't manage well. We don't measure

14:35

wealth And then I think once you know

14:37

what your baseline emissions are, it's important to

14:39

set a goal at. Also, as a mother

14:41

a suspect, the arms professor I know how

14:44

important it is to make their goal post

14:46

and the milestones very clearly defined if you

14:48

want to actually motivate action. And

14:50

then at the other piece is actually

14:52

developing a plan and then I would

14:54

say the fourth set as then to

14:57

actually take steps to implement number five,

14:59

you have to also monitor and report

15:01

your progress and us were saying a

15:03

lot of gaps so all of this

15:06

sounds really important, but it also signs

15:08

like it's quite a lot. Been really

15:10

honest. Is this gonna be harder if

15:12

your and I send me a small

15:15

or medium enterprise When we talk about

15:17

the companies are responsible for climate change?

15:19

two thirds. Of the companies that have

15:21

contributed the most of the climate, his

15:24

problem. For the very large companies that

15:26

you were death a large fossil fuel

15:28

companies, cement companies, oil and gas, and

15:30

really the we're not anybody estimates you

15:32

are filthy talking about major major companies

15:34

and and a lot of these I

15:36

were publicly own state owned enterprises. These

15:38

are the ones that are historically the

15:41

most responsible for the climate change problem

15:43

and they absolutely have no excuse. I

15:45

mean, they have the capacity to have

15:47

the resources to do all the things

15:49

that I. Mention, But absolutely For small

15:51

and medium sized enterprises, it's going to

15:54

be really challenging. everyone should be

15:56

aware at least and try to get educated about

15:58

what climate change is how to affects their

16:00

businesses. You can collect activity data on

16:02

how much electricity you consume, how much

16:05

fuel do you purchase. And

16:07

there are databases of emissions factors

16:09

that tell us how much emissions

16:12

are emitted through per unit of

16:14

these different activities. And so you

16:16

can start to develop these estimates

16:18

that don't require necessarily a huge

16:20

amount of technological resources. So Angel,

16:23

what is your ideal

16:25

vision of the sustainable,

16:27

equitable city of the future?

16:30

I'm drawn to an example just from a

16:32

few weeks ago. So my family, they really

16:35

like cruises, my parents are aging and they

16:37

really wanted to get everybody together. And my

16:40

husband made a remark, he said, to me,

16:43

this is what every American really wants.

16:45

They don't necessarily want to be on

16:47

a boat per se. And

16:49

it doesn't have to be on this

16:51

monstrosity of a ship. What they really

16:53

want is this connection with other people

16:55

because you have this self contained entertainment

16:58

center, you have walkability to

17:00

restaurants, to cafes, to bars, you have

17:02

these chance encounters with people. And it really

17:04

struck me that this is what a city

17:06

should be. I think that could actually help

17:08

us achieve a sustainable city

17:10

that's equitable because you would have

17:12

people who could have access to better

17:15

jobs and more economic

17:17

opportunity that cities provide, you could

17:19

have density and people not needing

17:21

to actually purchase their own car because they

17:24

would have public transit that they could access.

17:26

And then you could have these green spaces

17:28

that could actually bring people together. And if

17:30

everyone had the same access to these parks

17:32

and shaded areas, then they could

17:34

have protection from air pollution and

17:36

urban heat. My hope is that emerging

17:39

cities in other parts of the world

17:41

learn from our mistakes. And they think

17:44

about how to rebuild urban centers to

17:46

be vibrant communities that connect people together

17:48

and have a common shared vision of

17:50

sustainability because I think that's the only

17:52

way we're going to be able to

17:54

actually tackle climate change. Well, Angel, thank

17:56

you so much for your time. Thank

17:58

you. Thank you so much. It was

18:00

really a pleasure being here. We're

18:03

back with Hazem Ghulal. Hazem, Angel

18:05

laid out some reasons why she

18:07

thought businesses are to care about

18:09

whether cities are sustainable. Climate

18:12

change, disrupting operations and supply chains,

18:14

driving up inflation, as

18:16

well as reputational damage. To

18:19

what extent do your clients share

18:21

that perspective? Absolutely. I mean,

18:23

climate change is real. It's

18:25

here. The cost of

18:27

not dealing with climate change

18:29

is borne by the entire

18:32

society, including the companies, public

18:34

sector entities, private sector entities that

18:37

operate in a city. So

18:39

a lot of our clients,

18:41

especially the startups, are starting

18:43

right now to really think

18:46

about how can they provide

18:48

solutions that would help us

18:50

to deal with climate change, be

18:52

it mitigation or adaptation. Well, whose

18:54

responsibility is it to make our cities more sustainable?

18:56

I mean, is it the private

18:59

sector, is the government, what's the balance? So

19:01

it has to be driven by

19:04

the government, essentially. I mean, city

19:06

mayors and city regulators are the

19:08

ultimately responsible people for that. But

19:10

it's not only their responsibilities. The

19:12

private sector has to be part

19:14

of this. And the government has

19:16

a very solid set of regulations,

19:18

you know, in terms of making

19:20

sure that when they give the permits

19:22

to a master developer, they need to

19:25

make sure that the type of units

19:27

that they are developing are

19:29

catering for all different strata

19:31

within that society, right? So

19:33

it is the government's responsibility,

19:35

but it has to be

19:37

done in collaboration with the

19:39

private sector, with academia, and

19:42

with non-governmental organizations. What

19:45

would effective and valuable public-private

19:47

partnerships look like when it

19:50

comes to sustainable cities? And

19:52

what benefits do they provide?

19:55

We did a study actually with the World Economic

19:57

Forum a few years ago, and we looked at

19:59

the look that one of the

20:02

most important factors in making

20:04

those public-private partnerships a success

20:06

is to engage the private

20:08

sector early enough in the

20:10

process and to make sure that

20:13

they are an equal partner along the

20:16

way. Of course, you have to be

20:18

designing these partnerships so that

20:21

they are a win-win situation.

20:24

And you're taking the best of

20:26

the private sector but also making

20:28

sure that the regulations, the laws,

20:30

the procurement laws are catered to

20:33

incentivizing the private sector to participate

20:35

while keeping checks and balances to

20:37

make sure that the recipients of

20:39

the service are still getting the

20:42

best quality. I'm wondering

20:44

what uses you see for

20:46

policymakers and businesses in the

20:48

kind of data that Angel's work is

20:50

producing. It's great when

20:52

you actually have data that would allow

20:54

you to better plan and operate a

20:56

city. If they can

20:58

understand through sharing, car rights

21:01

sharing data, in a

21:03

better way, the use of different times

21:05

of the day, different modes of transportation,

21:08

you will be able to plan better

21:10

roads. You will be able to better

21:12

plan public transportation and your bus lines

21:15

to address those areas that need them

21:17

the most. So having this

21:19

dynamic data and being able

21:22

to process it, analyze it,

21:24

intelligently make decisions based on

21:27

that is what really a

21:29

smart city is all about. Looking

21:31

specifically at the region where you work,

21:33

the Middle East, it's got the second

21:35

fastest rate of urbanization on the planet after

21:37

Africa. What particular challenges

21:40

or opportunities do you see in the Middle

21:42

East? Oh, this is

21:44

an amazing time to be in the Middle

21:46

East. And I think, especially when it comes

21:48

to smart cities, now we

21:50

are seeing a big transition in

21:53

Saudi Arabia, for example, Riyadh has

21:55

really started to transition into a

21:57

cognitive city as a brand new

21:59

city. round field city that is

22:02

a city that is already existing,

22:04

that becomes very challenging because

22:06

in a way you have to

22:08

sail the boat as you are

22:10

rebuilding it. On the other

22:12

hand, we also have the likes of

22:14

NEOM, we have the likes of MOSDAR.

22:16

These are green fields, new cities that

22:18

are being designed from scratch

22:21

like the line, like OXOGON,

22:23

where from the beginning you

22:25

are inserting and investing in

22:28

smart infrastructure that would allow

22:30

you to offer these smart services.

22:33

And there is a renewed emphasis as

22:35

well on sustainability because at

22:37

the end of the day you

22:40

want to be able also to

22:42

leverage these technologies towards sustainability

22:44

and enhanced quality of life. I

22:47

would say if we really want

22:50

all of these national level

22:52

commitments that we've made for climate

22:54

change, sustainability and all of that,

22:56

to really get implemented, we have

22:59

to take that down to the city

23:01

level. That's where the rubber hits the road.

23:03

Hasem Galal, thank you so much for

23:05

talking with us and for sharing your reflections today.

23:08

It was a pleasure. Thank you very much. So

23:11

Lizzie, my big takeaway

23:13

is that justice and

23:15

inclusion is a really, really big

23:17

part of the story of

23:20

smart cities and smart

23:23

mobility. And particularly

23:25

as that collides with global

23:27

warming and climate change, we've

23:30

got these very, very dense

23:32

cities, but that also means

23:34

real challenges, particularly as our

23:36

cities get warmer in

23:38

terms of even things like

23:40

green spaces, planting trees for

23:42

shade, making sure as

23:45

well as being warm in winter are

23:48

sort of cool and ventilated when it

23:50

gets really hot. I was expecting to

23:52

hear, oh, some of these cities,

23:55

Copenhagen, Stockholm have done so well

23:57

on sustainability, But then, when she's.

24:00

Talked about. Actually, they're not

24:02

necessarily including poor people in

24:04

those benefits and in fact,

24:06

burdening them. I thought that

24:08

was incredibly interesting to think

24:11

about this intersection. Of

24:13

being inclusive and diverse with

24:15

being sustainable that these are

24:17

not values. That are opposition with

24:19

one another. They are in fact inextricably

24:22

linked. And. That we can do

24:24

that. using. Data to

24:26

drive this kind of decision making.

24:29

That's. All for this episode. Join

24:31

us next time on teeth and

24:33

moral when we'll be asking his

24:35

business is ladies that I generative

24:37

A I will transform side The

24:39

security is sleep A crime was

24:41

a country. It would be the

24:43

third richest country in the world

24:45

in terms of gross domestic product.

24:47

He would also be the fastest

24:50

growing economy and the wealth. Anything

24:52

about something money has been made

24:54

by that somewhere. Operators have some

24:56

of these organized crime gangs. they

24:58

got a lot. More money to

25:00

invest in Utah new technology with

25:02

me. Spoken about the potential for

25:05

generated. Believe.

25:09

That our ability to collaborate and

25:11

our ability to separate that scale

25:13

and you some I see some

25:15

of these technologies got sick the

25:17

that advantage in see their realm

25:19

of defenders. Take.

25:24

On Tomorrow is brought to you

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