0:14

Personally with

0:16

fuels Man. Happy Monday, friends,

0:19

I'm really excited to have you here this week.

0:21

We are going to change up the podcast just as

0:23

much. I've always been transparent honest with you guys.

0:26

So usually we do two people an

0:28

episode, an expert and then someone to come

0:30

on and share their real life story. Now

0:32

that concept is not changing. I love

0:34

it so much and I love what it's doing

0:36

for people, but we're gonna break

0:39

down the episode just a little bit further. So we're gonna

0:41

do one person a time for each episode,

0:44

but two back to back episodes,

0:46

maybe even three. We'll have a similar

0:48

theme, the same concept, it's just broken

0:50

down. I felt like we were jamming so

0:52

much good stuff into one episode,

0:55

and I'd love to start to go into more

0:58

depth with some of these interviews. Plus,

1:00

if I'm being totally transparent with you guys,

1:02

I was starting to get some very real burnout

1:05

just trying to do way too much that

1:07

I don't even have hours in the day to sleep

1:09

or shower. So breaking this down

1:12

not only helps me, but I also feel like it's gonna

1:14

really allow me to continue

1:16

this podcast in much broader, bigger ways.

1:18

So this week and next we

1:21

are focused on trauma and how

1:23

that impacts our lives. This week, I'm

1:25

bringing on trauma therapist Lauren

1:27

Hour. She has years of experience

1:29

working in trauma and this is truly her expertise,

1:32

So she has incredible knowledge

1:35

for us and it'll be really important

1:37

not only hearing this, but going into next week's

1:39

episode with Hailey Dollar Hide.

1:44

Lauren Ur is joining me right now, and

1:47

she is a trauma therapist. Lauren, thank

1:49

you so much for joining me on this episode.

1:51

Yeah, thanks for having me on.

1:53

I'm really excited to know from

1:55

you. What got you into this line

1:57

of work, specifically this specialty.

2:00

Yeah, it was unintentional. Originally,

2:04

when I was in graduate school, I

2:08

didn't really know who I wanted to work with. I

2:10

had some categories of I

2:13

didn't want to work with kids, and I

2:15

was pretty sure I didn't want to work with couples.

2:17

But I really at the end of the day,

2:19

was like, whatever, I'll just try things

2:21

out. And I ended up getting

2:24

an internship in a

2:26

agency that worked with both

2:29

offenders, juvenile offenders as well

2:31

as victims of abuse

2:33

and their families, and so I

2:36

had really wanted to work with kids. I definitely

2:38

was like, ah, that sounds like the scariest

2:40

population to work with in terms of abuse,

2:42

and that sounds really heavy, but I actually

2:44

ended up really loving it. It was

2:47

such a unique

2:49

learning experience, I think, especially

2:52

working with kind of

2:54

the three layers of victims

2:57

as well as offenders and their family

3:00

seen trauma from

3:02

these different angles, and so that

3:05

was it was really fascinating to me, and

3:08

kind of from there, I just ended up landing

3:11

in similar situations in terms

3:14

of where I was drawn to with my work.

3:16

So I worked at a women's

3:18

domestic violent shelter as well,

3:21

and then a rape crisis center

3:24

as a therapist where we worked with people of

3:26

all ages, and then I became the director

3:29

of that center, and so at

3:32

that point I was not only working

3:34

with clients that had experienced a

3:36

lot of trauma, but I was also

3:39

very much in a role of community

3:42

outreach. So I was doing trainings

3:45

for like police and medical

3:48

staff, and supervising

3:51

interns and other therapists, and working

3:53

with people at that vicarious

3:56

trauma level, so like people

3:59

in the field that we're

4:01

dealing with maybe their own trauma, but also

4:05

maybe being traumatized by some of the populations

4:07

they were working with. And so it was

4:09

very interesting to me to

4:12

see things from all these different angles,

4:14

all these different layers, and that

4:17

center that I worked for, we would see

4:19

people in crisis situation,

4:21

so we would show up at the emergency

4:23

room, let's say, if they're getting like an evidence collection

4:26

kit done, so like really immediate

4:28

trauma, all the way to people

4:31

coming in for therapy

4:33

later in life when they hadn't dealt with

4:35

something that maybe happened in their childhood, so

4:37

like very far removed from the trauma. And

4:40

so it just became these

4:44

put in became something I was really

4:46

passionate about because

4:48

I feel like I learned so much just

4:52

from doing that work about

4:54

trauma. Like I'd obviously learned

4:56

about it in grad school and read

4:58

all the books, but really just being

5:01

in those environments and working with people,

5:03

it was just like the best

5:05

education I think you could possibly get in terms

5:08

of what trauma is, how

5:10

it looks, all the different

5:12

ways it can manifest and

5:15

yeah, so total crash course.

5:17

And then I open my own practice after that, so now that's

5:19

what I do.

5:20

Wow, Yeah, you really have seen it

5:22

from just so many different steps

5:25

and angles, And that's so

5:27

interesting to me because trauma

5:29

is one of those things that it's not a

5:32

one size fits all, even though it could

5:34

be a similar scenario. It's something

5:36

that has so many multifaceted

5:39

layers to it. And

5:42

that's why I'm so intrigued and wanted to

5:44

dedicate not only in like an

5:46

entire episode and few episodes to it. I

5:48

have a guest coming on

5:50

after you in the following episode

5:53

who's going to share her story actually of

5:55

some of these things that you talked about that she had happened

5:57

in her life. And it's

6:00

wild as we see people experience these

6:03

things and what it does not just in that moment,

6:05

but throughout the entire course of their life.

6:08

So when you

6:10

go and you do this kind of work, especially

6:12

frontlines, and you have these initial moments

6:15

and you're working with people, what are

6:17

those things that you're experiencing with people

6:19

and you're seeing them experience where you're

6:21

like, other people should know what

6:24

this might look like in case it

6:26

happens to them.

6:28

Yeah, it's really interesting because if

6:30

you would have asked me that after

6:34

doing graduate work and learning,

6:36

reading books or whatever, I

6:39

probably would have been able to rattle off some

6:41

typical symptoms or things we might see.

6:45

But after doing this work for as long

6:47

as I have. I think one of the biggest things

6:49

that stands out to me is that

6:52

it can look so many

6:54

different ways. I've been in

6:57

emergency rooms with people getting

6:59

evidence collection kits done

7:01

after sexual assaults, where we're like laughing

7:03

and joking, and that's like their way of

7:06

coping, like that's their trauma

7:08

response. I've been with people that are their

7:11

immediate response is to take care of everybody else

7:13

around them, or just go into

7:16

planning and doing mode where

7:19

they're being really productive and

7:21

really advocating heavily or getting things done.

7:24

Of course, I've sat with people that are

7:27

very emotional or angry

7:29

or dissociated, like checked

7:31

out. It's incredible, I think,

7:34

just the human capacity to

7:36

deal with things and those automatic

7:39

responses that we develop

7:42

when it comes to trauma. And I

7:44

think maybe initially I

7:46

would have thought that

7:48

those people that were taking care of others

7:50

or seemed really strong or laughing,

7:53

that oh, those are like the resilient people

7:55

that aren't super affected by this.

7:58

But that's not necessarily the truth. I

8:00

think sometimes those

8:02

people that have that trauma

8:05

response of taking care of other people or

8:07

of putting the focus elsewhere,

8:10

it's still living in them.

8:12

Internally, and sometimes that is

8:15

harder to process through

8:17

and heal from when they're not just

8:20

maybe doing what you would typically expect

8:22

somebody in a traumatic situation. And

8:25

so I guess that's a non

8:27

answer.

8:28

No, it's your question, but it's perfect

8:31

actually because I love to

8:33

showcase that it doesn't look

8:35

like you think it would look always right.

8:38

And also to add to that, I think

8:41

it's important to keep in mind that when

8:44

it comes to what we would consider

8:47

to be trauma, it's not really

8:50

about the event or events

8:52

themselves or the circumstances as much

8:54

as it's about how that individual

8:57

person, their nervous

8:59

system, their brain, and how they experience

9:02

it. I often compare

9:04

it to like if

9:06

two people were in a car and gotten

9:08

a car accident and

9:11

vendor bender. Everyone's okay, they

9:13

get up. One of them might be shaken up a

9:15

little bit and just like we got through that and

9:17

really able to go on with their life. The

9:19

other person could be extremely anxious

9:21

and panicky and not want to drive and

9:24

really having flashbacks in a hard time or

9:27

whatever it is, and they experience the exact

9:29

same event, but one

9:32

of them might have experienced that

9:34

event as traumatic, whereas the other one

9:37

maybe didn't. And so keeping

9:39

that in mind too, that we

9:41

can't always just look at a set of

9:44

circumstances and assume how

9:46

somebody could feel and

9:49

can you experience that?

9:51

Yeah, can you break that down even a little

9:53

bit further for me, because why

9:56

is it that some people This kind

9:58

of goes more into maybe more of the science side of

10:00

things, but why is it that

10:02

some people can process trauma

10:05

easier, quicker, or so we think,

10:07

while others really internalize

10:09

it becomes a whole part of their body, and it's this whole

10:11

process. Is there things that you've seen and

10:13

experienced that makes sense

10:15

for us to describe why that happens?

10:19

Yeah, And I think it's it

10:21

can be a little bit complex and

10:23

multifaceted, and there's

10:25

so many factors at play

10:28

there, and so there's

10:31

like the immediate things that are going on.

10:34

So for instance, in that example

10:36

with the car accident, maybe

10:39

one of the people in the car is

10:42

having a hard time finding a

10:44

job and they don't have a lot of resources, or

10:47

they are going

10:49

through some sort of upheaval

10:51

or distress in their life, or dealing

10:54

with other mental health concerns, or

10:56

like there's all those immediate things that

10:58

could be at play that if they're

11:00

baseline going into that experience,

11:03

if they're already dysregulated

11:05

by a variety of other things going

11:07

on, that is going to impact

11:09

them on a different level.

11:12

But it's also very historical.

11:14

I think if they

11:18

have dealt with a lot of other

11:20

traumatic things throughout their life,

11:22

if they've had access to processing

11:26

those things and dealing with them or not,

11:29

what does the support system look like going

11:32

forward in the future. Are they going

11:34

home to a supportive

11:38

and safe home where

11:40

they have people that they can talk to, do

11:42

they have access to resources. There's

11:44

all of these factors like

11:47

past, present, future that

11:50

kind of make up this unique circumstance

11:53

around it. And I'm such like an analogy

11:56

person and I'm also like a huge plant person.

11:58

I have to buy plants all the time, especially

12:00

because it's becoming spring. But if you

12:02

think of your nervous system like

12:05

a plant, like each plant

12:07

has very unique needs based

12:10

on a genetic makeup and growing conditions.

12:12

You'll go to a nursery and this one needs a lot

12:14

of sun, and this one actually does

12:16

better with some shade, And this one needs to be

12:18

watered frequently, and that one, oh barely

12:20

water it at all. They all have this kind

12:22

of makeup already

12:25

in their system of what they need. Humans

12:27

are the same way, but it's all of

12:29

those things about how consistent

12:33

is the care that you're giving it.

12:35

Are there periods of drought our systems, we

12:37

have our own individual capacities

12:39

for processing experiences. So

12:41

some plants can become like really

12:44

hardy and maybe there's

12:46

like lots of exposure to wind and

12:49

harsh conditions, while others are

12:51

used to growing in more like delicate

12:53

or protected spaces. So some

12:55

might develop deeper roots from early

12:57

stress while other create broader

13:00

leaves because they have abundance in

13:03

their conditions and trauma that

13:06

can happen when we're flooded with

13:08

either more than we can absorb at once.

13:11

So that would maybe look like if

13:13

you had a new little plant, had you left it

13:15

outside and there was a sudden downpour that

13:18

overwhelms the system

13:21

rather than nourishes it, Like that

13:23

could be a really big I think

13:25

a lot of times when we think of trauma like a

13:27

really big devastating event

13:30

happening, right, that's like that downpour.

13:33

But it can also occur when you're

13:35

exposed to harsh conditions for too

13:37

long. So like maybe

13:39

a plant could thrive in

13:42

heat for a

13:44

day, but if it's in hot heat and it's not

13:46

designed for that for days

13:49

or weeks, it's too much for too

13:51

long, and that could really hurt it, or

13:54

it could develop, trauma could develop if you're

13:56

deprived of what you need to thrive,

13:59

going to too long without water or

14:01

light, like being neglected. It's not

14:04

always something happening

14:06

around you or to you, but also it can

14:08

be like the absence of what

14:10

you need for too long, and

14:13

so like even two plants of the same species

14:15

might need different amounts of

14:17

care based on their unique

14:20

growing history. Too. There's

14:23

not just like a perfect formula around

14:25

that. So it's not like about the weather itself as

14:27

much as it's about each individual plants

14:29

system and how it responds

14:32

to that environment. It's

14:34

really the same way with how

14:36

our nervous systems develop. We have very

14:38

unique requirements based on

14:40

our genetic blueprint and

14:43

also all these other environmental

14:45

factors around us.

14:47

I love an analogy. So the way that you

14:49

just painted that so perfectly with plants

14:52

and allows people to understand it just in

14:54

this deeper way beautiful.

14:56

The reason my analogies don't hit, But I feel

14:58

like that one I think is pretty all encompassing

15:01

of what trauma is like.

15:05

No, it definitely is. And the reason I even

15:07

asked that question is because I think it's really

15:09

easy for us to get caught

15:11

up in this belief that I

15:13

didn't experience it that way, so

15:16

why are they experiencing it that way? We

15:19

like to really just put people

15:21

in our own boxes instead

15:23

of understanding that we are individual

15:26

and we have unique experiences, and

15:29

so having you share that in that way

15:31

hopefully can really help people just

15:33

be a little bit more understanding

15:36

of those experiences and that it's not they're

15:38

not going to react the same way you choose to react.

15:41

It's going to be different exactly.

15:43

Yeah, And when you mentioned.

15:45

This too, it had me thinking of a

15:47

lot of what we see on social media is people talking about

15:49

little tea's and big teas. Do

15:51

you feel like that's really the case or

15:54

is it just it's.

15:55

Just trauma or is that like little.

15:57

Tea Big Tea actually helpful

15:59

and truthful in our experience in our learning.

16:03

Yeah, I think

16:05

there's a place for it. I

16:08

used to teach that and train

16:10

that because that was the

16:13

standard. But I

16:15

guess for me personally, I don't love

16:17

the language of little and big because

16:20

I think it can suggest, oh

16:22

that one's not as serious

16:25

as this other thing. I think what

16:28

it's really trying to say

16:32

by using little and big is more

16:35

how I was describing with the plants, like a

16:37

sudden downpour, like all at once,

16:39

too much that is big, that

16:41

would be an overwhelm in

16:43

a short period of time, whereas

16:46

little ty, I think is

16:49

more the like could be like

16:51

the neglect or the just not having

16:53

enough for too long. And again

16:56

there's so many. I think it goes so much deeper

16:59

than that, and so I

17:02

shy away personally from using that

17:04

language just because I think it

17:06

can create some misconception and

17:09

even some shame around maybe

17:12

if people are dealing with a

17:14

lot of trauma responses, but

17:17

on paper, the things that they've

17:19

experienced are quote little

17:22

that they may think that they there's

17:24

something wrong with them, or they're making too much of

17:26

something, or other people don't understand

17:29

or invalidating their own experiences.

17:32

It's just so personal an individual

17:35

to how somebody experiences something,

17:38

and for there to be any sort

17:40

of outward perception

17:43

of that is basically impossible because

17:45

we as an outsider, like I can't

17:47

know all of the environmental,

17:50

genetic, circumstantial

17:54

all of these things. There's no way for me to

17:56

know that unless that person

17:59

shares that with me.

18:01

It totally came to my mind because

18:03

I remember one time, I think I was

18:05

sitting in the therapy session and I referred

18:07

to something as like, oh, it's just like a little tea,

18:10

And I even felt weird saying it,

18:12

like I felt myself invalidating

18:15

what I experienced. And I

18:17

don't know if it was because people made me feel that

18:19

way or if I just personally felt that way because I

18:21

had bigger traumas, But I

18:23

remember just even saying it, I'm like, you know what,

18:26

No, it's not Actually that was really traumatic,

18:28

and why am I downplaying that experience?

18:31

So I'm glad that you shared

18:33

that because it's helpful. Just talking

18:36

about everything in the mental health space is helpful.

18:38

We're communicating finally about something that's

18:40

really important. But using

18:43

harmful language can also make it really

18:45

difficult on us to truly heal.

18:48

Right, Yeah, And I think there's also

18:50

an important thing to keep in mind about

18:53

how important

18:56

like what happens next is and

18:58

what I mean by that is you

19:01

know there's a traumatic

19:03

event itself. Let's just say abuse. If

19:06

a kid experiences abuse,

19:09

and then that's a traumatic event.

19:12

But then they tell a parent,

19:14

hey, this thing happened to me, and

19:17

if the parent's reaction is

19:20

like they don't believe them, or

19:23

they're downplaying it, or they

19:26

are blaming them, or even if

19:28

the parent's reaction is devastated

19:31

and very emotional, and then the parent

19:33

can't function and the parent like there's

19:36

all of these kind of like after effects.

19:38

I think too that can create

19:42

sometimes an even bigger wound

19:45

and there can be even more trauma

19:47

associated with that. Or

19:50

maybe even being in an environment where they feel

19:52

like they can't share what happened

19:54

to them because they don't feel

19:57

like either they have safe adults

19:59

or they don't think that the

20:01

adults in their life are able to handle

20:04

that. Maybe they're trying to protect that adult.

20:06

There's so many things there too that

20:08

I think is also

20:11

really important to consider when we're talking

20:13

about what trauma is and how we experience

20:15

it.

20:16

I was just thinking about that when you were mentioning

20:18

in it, because so many of these

20:21

very emotional

20:24

topics and things that are referred to

20:26

as trauma do often

20:28

come around with this part

20:30

of I don't believe your

20:32

experience or it's

20:35

not.

20:35

What you think it was, or invalidating.

20:38

That, and I do believe

20:41

that is trauma within itself. To not

20:43

have people understand or believe.

20:45

You, right, Yeah,

20:47

And sometimes I mean the

20:49

rupture that can cause an

20:52

attachment or even feeling safe enough

20:55

to heal through that, or the what happens

20:57

next can be huge.

20:59

So yeah, when,

21:02

yeah, when something

21:05

happens, this piece of trauma that happens

21:07

in your life and it's going to play

21:09

out, maybe it's days, months, years, how

21:12

do you know that you're still living

21:14

within that trauma versus

21:16

being healed from it?

21:18

Yeah? Yeah, I

21:20

know these are the complex

21:23

I think there's so

21:25

many things

21:28

that we experience

21:30

that I think a lot of times we don't even realize

21:33

have anything to do with trauma. Because

21:35

a lot of times I'll see people in

21:38

therapy and maybe let's say

21:40

they're dealing with anxiety. That's

21:43

something that comes up for them a lot, maybe social anxiety,

21:45

let's say, And maybe

21:47

they've done therapy, maybe they've done self

21:49

help or read the books or listen

21:51

to all the podcasts or whatever, but

21:54

they maybe they get to a point where

21:56

they understand logically

21:59

why they have social

22:01

anxiety. Maybe they're able to say, okay,

22:04

that makes sense because I had some

22:06

really close friends and then we

22:08

got in a big fight and then I felt really abandoned

22:11

or whatever. Like I

22:13

can point to things in my life that it

22:15

makes sense that when I'm in social situations

22:18

now that I would

22:20

be anxious. That's great,

22:22

But just having that knowledge

22:25

doesn't necessarily mean that all of a sudden

22:27

the anxiety is gone, right, And so

22:30

I think sometimes people can feel really stuck

22:32

in that of wait, I've

22:34

done all this work, I can put logic

22:37

behind it. It makes sense. But when

22:39

I get invited to a social event,

22:42

my body is tense and I'm breathing differently,

22:44

and I am feeling like I don't want to be there,

22:46

and I'm second guessing everything I say.

22:48

They're still experiencing it,

22:51

and so it's not enough

22:54

to just know the

22:56

why around it, because

23:00

the parts of your brain that

23:02

are activated when you're experiencing

23:04

something traumatic is

23:06

not the logical part of your brain, that prefrontal

23:09

cortex that can give explanation and

23:12

put sense to it when

23:14

you're actually experiencing those things.

23:17

It is like that deeper, more instinctual

23:19

part of your brain, the like fight

23:21

flight freeze, the knee

23:23

jerk emotion, the knee jerk reaction,

23:26

how your body braces

23:29

in those moments, and really

23:31

your logical part of

23:34

your brain goes offline when that's

23:36

happening. Just like I

23:38

talk a lot about. To illustrate

23:41

this, if you've ever been driving in the car

23:43

and all of a sudden,

23:45

the car in front of you slams on their brake, and so

23:48

you slam on your brake and you like put the like phantom

23:50

arm out to just.

23:52

Stop, what we call the mom arm, like that right,

23:54

and.

23:54

There's like nothing there, Like it's just an

23:56

empty seat. But it's just that like instinctual

23:59

reaction that we do. And

24:02

that's such a small little example, but it's a

24:05

really good illustration of the fact that

24:07

logically there's nothing there, Like it doesn't

24:09

make sense, you're not protecting the

24:12

invisible enough, But it

24:14

is just what your body

24:16

does. It's just that initial bracing

24:19

and I think a lot of trauma

24:23

that we experience however that looks

24:25

there is just those instinctual reactions.

24:28

That's how we're wired as humans who be

24:31

and so being able to actually

24:33

heal from that and go

24:35

beyond that stuffness

24:38

of I can make sense of it, but I'm still having

24:40

these reactions. A lot

24:42

of that really has to do with

24:46

processing from the parts of

24:48

your brain that we're actually

24:50

online during the trauma,

24:52

and so there's all sorts

24:55

of therapy techniques and modalities

24:57

that get into that that kind of fall under

24:59

this matic category. But it's

25:01

about being in

25:04

tune with your body and what's going on

25:06

when you think about that, and what are you feeling,

25:08

and what are the sensations. And therapies

25:10

like EMDR and brain

25:12

spotting and polyvagel

25:14

therapy, there's a ton that kind of fall in

25:16

that category, but really being

25:19

able to bring your

25:22

body into the therapy work

25:24

is what can really

25:26

facilitate healing in the sense

25:29

of where those automatic reactions aren't

25:31

coming up as strongly.

25:33

And I did see on your profile

25:35

that you do have work in

25:38

EMDR, brain spotting, IFS

25:41

somatic. Can you just little

25:43

kind of exerts of what each of these

25:45

things are because having resources

25:48

and sometimes people don't even know these things exist.

25:50

Yeah, And I think it can be very

25:53

confusing looking for a therapist

25:55

because there's all these acronyms and all these specialties,

25:57

and I think people are like, oh, that person there

26:00

profile says their trauma informed, but

26:02

that could mean that they took a trauma class

26:04

in college twenty years ago.

26:06

I think it is good to have some level

26:09

of understanding of maybe

26:11

like what some of these things are. Emdr

26:14

and brain spotting are two techniques

26:17

that follow the same neuroscience,

26:20

two different ways to go about it, and

26:22

it basically utilizes

26:25

the neurobiology of how our nervous

26:27

system is connected to our brain and

26:29

how we process things and bilateral

26:33

movements or eye position, because

26:37

our eyes, how

26:39

they where they look, how they look,

26:42

all of that stuff is really how

26:44

our brain is processing through things

26:46

and activating all those other parts

26:48

of our brain the left and the right

26:51

hemisphere. And so it's

26:53

like these specific techniques that are designed

26:55

to I guess, wake up or activate

26:58

those deeper parts of your brain while

27:00

you're doing the processing in

27:02

a slow way, in a controlled

27:04

way. That's another thing. Like we

27:07

say fast as slow and slow as fast.

27:09

You really can't rush through it. I

27:11

always say it's hard to explain it because

27:13

it sounds really weird. It'd

27:16

be like me trying to explain to

27:18

somebody like how to ride a bike

27:20

if they've never even seen a bike. I really think

27:23

there is part of it. You almost have to do it

27:25

because you're activating

27:27

the subcortical systems of your brain. Subcortical

27:30

meaning the parts that are without word and

27:32

without logic, and so to explain

27:35

it in logical ways with words, it's hard.

27:37

But it's also cool because you're tapping into

27:39

a part of your brain that to us feels

27:41

like it's not active even though it is, but because

27:44

it's not transferring language

27:46

in the way that we understand, this is a

27:48

way to access a piece of view. It's

27:51

kind of like plugging yourself into an outlet

27:53

and being like the whole thing actually finally turns

27:55

on and it is how I'm like seeing

27:58

it.

27:58

Yeah, basically, yeah, because if

28:00

you think about it, how often you're just going

28:02

about your life and you

28:05

know you're walking,

28:07

but you're not like going, okay,

28:10

lift this leg up, put this leg down,

28:12

now this one. Like it's just so automatic

28:14

where we're not actually in our body,

28:16

we're not thinking about it. You could

28:18

be off in your mind thinking about something completely

28:21

random or fully going

28:23

through a task physically, and

28:25

so it's so natural

28:28

for humans to not actually fully

28:31

be in their body when

28:34

they are just going about

28:36

day to day life. But especially I think sometimes

28:38

when we're recalling things like memories

28:41

or emotional pieces

28:44

of trauma, it's

28:47

almost like we naturally

28:49

go away from our body and just go up

28:51

to our brain of like telling the

28:53

story, and that feels almost

28:56

protective in a way, and it's not conscious,

28:59

but that is what we do. And so being

29:01

able to create that

29:04

like slow it down and create that safety, wake

29:06

up the whole body and the

29:08

whole presence while being able to process

29:11

through stuff, that's what's going to create

29:13

the change.

29:14

Is this also when you can access something

29:17

because I know and like the trauma that I've experienced,

29:19

there'll be moments where before I had really

29:21

worked through a lot of stuff where I really

29:24

packed it down and pushed it away.

29:27

Does EMDR and brain spotting

29:29

help you access the stuff

29:31

that you pushed out of your mind

29:34

in a way?

29:35

Yeah? Sometimes, Okay, sometimes not. I

29:38

think sometimes people are afraid to

29:40

do these types of therapies because they're fearful

29:42

about what if I recall memories or

29:44

what if I've blocked something out that

29:47

comes up whatever.

29:49

Sometimes that may happen. However,

29:53

our brains are incredible

29:56

that when our

29:59

brains do block out memories or we don't

30:01

have access to that, there's

30:03

a reason for that. Our brains are always trying

30:05

to protect us, and your brain

30:08

is not going to recall those things

30:11

if it doesn't feel safe enough to

30:13

do so. So sometimes that is a slow process,

30:16

and you can trust easy in the fact

30:18

that if memories are coming

30:21

up, it is because you

30:24

are at a regulated

30:27

enough place to be able to handle

30:29

those things. Also, there are

30:31

sometimes things like pre verbal memories

30:34

or medical trauma

30:37

where maybe you're under anesthesia or something

30:39

where you literally aren't going to have active memory

30:42

and you can't recall that, but your

30:44

body was still experiencing

30:47

whatever that is. And so sometimes

30:49

there is truly no memory associated

30:52

with trauma that we've experienced, and

30:54

it's not necessarily the goal. You

30:57

don't need to have the memory in order to heal

30:59

from it.

31:02

Wow, it's so cool that we have

31:04

access to these things and to be able to do

31:07

this to help ourselves. I don't want to just slide

31:09

past that because the fact that we have technology

31:12

and things like this in place

31:14

to start to heal ourselves is

31:17

such a cool place to be in in

31:19

life. So that's

31:21

just awesome to me. As I'm sitting here thinking

31:23

about this.

31:24

It's incredible. I like geek

31:27

out over what I do every day and just the stuff

31:29

that I like. The healing I see is just incredible.

31:32

I love it.

31:33

So you're doing incredible work and making

31:35

some very big life changes for people

31:38

on that flip side of trauma.

31:41

What happens if we don't

31:43

heal our trauma? What happens if we just go

31:45

through our life and we just keep shoving it down,

31:47

pushing it away, not ever facing it.

31:49

It just stays down, never comes

31:51

back out. Yeah, what does

31:53

that look like in somebody? Because I do

31:56

think a lot of people experience

31:58

this, like with people in their lives where

32:01

they're like, you haven't worked through anything,

32:03

and I can feel this coming out at me. So

32:06

what can that look like for someone? Because

32:08

I think it helps us understand a little bit

32:10

more just maybe what people are going

32:13

through.

32:14

Like those things. It doesn't just dissipate.

32:17

I'll give you another analogy because I just can't

32:19

help it how my brain works.

32:20

But I love analogies, so

32:22

you can can't.

32:23

Yeah, it's if you

32:25

had a room in your house that it was like your

32:27

junk room and everything. I'll deal with

32:29

that later. Went into that room, and then

32:31

you shut the door, like you could shut

32:34

the door and pretend it's not there.

32:36

It's not going to just go away, and

32:39

eventually, like there is going to

32:41

be other consequences to that.

32:44

In that sense, maybe it's like eventually you need to

32:46

sell your house, and now it's this huge thing.

32:48

Like sometimes there's something that happens where it's

32:50

like you can't avoid it because something so

32:52

big happens. I feel

32:55

like I saw this a lot, like in

32:57

COVID times that people

33:00

were able to manage or

33:02

push down whatever it was, but

33:05

when this global thing was happening

33:08

for some people, that was the straw that broke the

33:10

camel's back. There is some unrelated

33:13

thing and sometimes even like a small thing that

33:17

is just going to tip that scale

33:20

and then all of a sudden you

33:22

start feeling really overwhelming symptoms.

33:25

I do think that sometimes people can successfully

33:29

shove it down for a

33:31

period of time, but it's

33:33

like holding a beach ball underwater, like

33:36

you can. You really have to struggle

33:39

to keep that in, and eventually it

33:42

might be too much to hold that down whatever

33:44

that looks like. And so a lot

33:46

of times it does even come out in

33:49

little reactions, little moods,

33:52

or how we are

33:56

doing in relationships with other people

33:59

are tended sees to maybe shut

34:01

people out or like all sorts of things.

34:03

A lot of times it comes out like we cope with things

34:06

through things like addictions or all

34:09

these other things that might

34:11

not be

34:13

a huge problem, and I don't like to pathologize

34:15

even that stuff. It might be an unpopular

34:17

thing, but even addiction, right if somebody

34:21

leaned on an addiction or

34:23

a substance to numb themselves,

34:25

Let's say after traumatic

34:28

things happened because they just maybe

34:30

didn't have the capacity

34:33

or the resources, or they just straight

34:35

up weren't ready to touch it, and they

34:37

found something that got them through

34:40

that time to

34:42

where they could manage

34:45

day to day hopefully to

34:47

a point where you know, usually

34:49

that thing that helped them manage becomes

34:51

its own problem and

34:54

then now they're dealing with the consequences

34:56

of that. I'm like, I'm so

34:58

happy that they found something to get them by

35:01

when they needed to. Also

35:04

there's consequences to that, and sometimes

35:06

then it's a bigger problem. But we do

35:08

need those things, even if they're unhealthy,

35:11

even if they aren't

35:13

really serving us long term. It's

35:15

not always realistic to oh I

35:17

experienced a trauma, like going to go start journaling

35:20

every day and get into a yoga practice. That's

35:22

not always possible.

35:24

So yeah, I think sometimes we

35:27

do what we need to do to get by, but

35:29

sometimes those things we do to get by become

35:31

their own beast. And sometimes

35:34

people go to therapy I think because

35:36

they think the problem is the

35:39

addiction or the relationship

35:41

problems or whatever it is, and it is the

35:43

problem, but like, where did that problem

35:46

come from? Almost always

35:48

it's going to connect somewhere to

35:52

some sort of trauma

35:55

that they've experienced at

35:57

some point in their life. Yeah.

35:59

We talk a lot about root causes on this

36:01

podcast, and man if that ain't the

36:04

cure all for just about everything. Is like you got

36:06

to get to the root of something that's happening

36:08

instead of just fixing something with a band

36:10

aid, right, mental, physical

36:12

health, all the things.

36:15

Mm hmm.

36:16

Yeah, so something that's also very much

36:18

involved with trauma. I got a question

36:20

about this from a few different people

36:22

actually, which makes me think a lot

36:24

of people are handling this in this way, but

36:27

you end up in a survival mode or a

36:29

fight or flight, and you just ruminate

36:32

in this cycle of that for however

36:34

long, and it's

36:37

really.

36:37

Hard to break yourself out of that.

36:39

However that looks like for

36:41

someone who's trying to get out of survival

36:43

mode or a fight or flight or that freeze

36:46

that you mentioned too, what

36:48

are some first steps they can take to break

36:50

that ruminating cycle that.

36:53

Part of them that

36:56

is, let's say we'll go with

36:58

fight being reactive

37:00

or touchy or it has big emotions, that

37:03

part of them. It's not connected to

37:05

the fact that there's not that same level

37:07

of threat in the moment. It's like

37:09

logically they might know this is different

37:12

than the trauma I experienced,

37:15

but it's an automatic reaction

37:17

that's coming up because their system

37:20

is just noticing

37:23

things in their environment, triggers

37:25

whatever it may be, just regulation

37:28

and like ringing the alarm bell, and

37:30

so those reactions

37:33

come up automatically, and

37:35

so part of it is having

37:38

that understanding, so you're not adding

37:40

fuel to the fire by blaming yourself

37:43

or being hard on yourself for that of

37:45

this is automatic. This is just it's

37:48

happening. Detaching that extra

37:50

layer of shame and blame that you have, but

37:53

also trying

37:55

to understand what purpose

37:59

that might be. Certain, because

38:02

if your system thinks that

38:04

it's going to be in danger, your system is going

38:07

to react. It just is and that's

38:09

wonderful because you want your system to react

38:11

if it feels like there's danger. But again,

38:14

I think it really goes back to being able

38:16

to not just put the logic behind

38:18

it, but like connecting those parts

38:21

of the brain and helping

38:24

bring your body into that processing

38:27

so that you can logically

38:29

understand it, but you're really what needs to happen

38:32

is your cells, your

38:34

nervous system, your body needs to understand

38:37

like this is

38:39

different and I'm safe now, and there's

38:42

I think there's like some self talk and stuff that can

38:44

go along with that as well, but it

38:47

is a process and like allowing

38:49

yourself the time that it

38:51

needs to get through that

38:54

period of time.

38:55

Yeah, for sure, I appreciate you answering

38:57

that for some people, because I do think actually

39:00

coming out of COVID, I think.

39:01

That caused a lot for a lot of people.

39:03

But more than that, we're just in some

39:06

crazy times right now and people are going through

39:08

it. You dubbed a new word in

39:10

healing called trauma lessence.

39:13

Am I saying that correctly. Yeah,

39:15

can you break.

39:16

That down for me and what it looks like, because when I watched

39:18

this content, I was like, Oh, this is so cool

39:20

and super important.

39:22

How like when you become a parent, when

39:24

you become a mother, how

39:26

it can feel almost like adolescence

39:29

in that you're like trying to figure out like who

39:31

am I? Where do I fit? Like what is my

39:34

That kind of like awkward new

39:37

version of yourself, trying to figure

39:39

out the bridge between who you

39:41

were and who you now are. And

39:43

I noticed that in trauma

39:46

healing, I was seeing a lot of that too, of

39:48

this kind of what felt like almost like adolescent

39:52

period in the healing process of

39:55

like huh, now

39:57

that I see this thing

39:59

differently, or now that I don't have those

40:02

certain reactions coming up as big

40:05

anymore, or now that I'm looking at this thing in

40:07

a new light, who am I without

40:10

the identity of the

40:13

trauma and the stuff around me? And how

40:16

it's a period of time that can

40:18

feel really vulnerable and really scary,

40:21

but it's also like really good and

40:23

beautiful, and so I get excited

40:25

and when therapy, when people are

40:27

like coming to me and being like, man,

40:31

like I

40:33

don't know why I all of a sudden,

40:36

I don't know what to do with myself. Who am I?

40:39

Or ugh? I always

40:41

used to just you know, nod

40:43

and smile in these certain situations,

40:45

and now I find myself like speaking up and

40:47

that's scary, and like what does that mean? Like all

40:49

of these things that almost freak them out

40:51

about themselves, and I'm like, yay, Like healing

40:54

is happening. It's exciting, and

40:56

I feel like that's just people becoming who

40:59

they are actually are without

41:02

all the junk that forced

41:04

them to adapt in

41:06

all these different ways. It's like almost like refinding

41:09

themselves.

41:11

Yeah. I loved that word, and I love that

41:13

so thanks for coming up with it.

41:15

And I do like to end our episodes

41:17

always with whether it's a piece of advice, whether

41:20

it's something that we didn't touch on that

41:22

you feel is so important. I leave it open ended

41:24

up to you that you like to leave us

41:26

on this place. So Flora

41:28

is yours. Let me know if there's anything that comes

41:30

to mind for you.

41:32

Oh gosh, so much. I'm

41:35

biased, obviously, but like I think everybody

41:38

can benefit from therapy, whether they

41:42

feel like they have quote little P

41:44

trauma or big T trauma or anything

41:46

at all, Like being a human is hard,

41:49

and there's always going to be stuff. I

41:51

know that there can obviously

41:53

be barriers for people finding

41:56

a good therapist, fit or feeling

41:58

like they can and access those

42:01

things. At the end of the day, the

42:03

best thing you can do for yourself and

42:06

all the people around you is

42:08

to get to know yourself and

42:10

figure out who you are

42:13

without all of that other stuff

42:16

getting in the way. And you

42:18

know, I always say trauma can be

42:20

passed down through generations, so

42:22

can healing. It's never too

42:24

late. It's not like, oh, that happened forever

42:27

ago. It's truly never too late.

42:29

I just really encourage anybody that if

42:32

they have any inkling of I should do

42:34

that. Eventually. Listen to that, do

42:36

that. It's one of the best things you can do for yourself.

42:39

Yes, there's a perfect way to end one.

42:41

We did it.

42:42

So thank you so much Lauren for being

42:44

here, for sharing your expertise

42:46

and just helping change the world

42:48

for some people because it's important.

42:51

Yeah, thanks for having me on. I'm always happy to talk about

42:53

this stuff.

42:54

If you want to follow Lauren on socials, her instagram

42:57

is your Trauma Therapist Underscore

42:59

I'll put it in the description too. Next

43:01

week, my friend Hailey dollar Hie joins me to

43:03

share some of the trauma she's experienced

43:06

and how it's impacted her throughout

43:08

her life. Her story is one of

43:10

a lot of resilience and so much strength,

43:12

so don't miss it. You can follow the podcast

43:14

Instagram, take this personally, and don't

43:16

forget to hit subscribe and rate five

43:18

stars because we do have some trollers

43:21

hanging out in the reviews. As

43:23

always, I'm really happy you're here, thanks

43:25

for listening, and you guys are awesome.

43:28

We'll talk next week.