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Okay, we got a great show for you tonight. We're

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1:37

Bush administration involved in the Middle East, but now he's

1:40

chairman of the Tika Fund, and we're looking to see

1:43

he's written the book, looking to see how American jury

1:47

can be saved. What that's all about will be the

1:50

subject of our special broadcast tonight, where America's only Jewish

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radio programs on regular broadcast radio, on Theview, Tonet and

1:57

digital platforms. We begin with l Abrams right after the

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You're listening to talk Line with Zev Brenner, America's premier

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Jewish broadcast on the air since nineteen eighty one.

7:25

And now here's your host.

7:30

Now we're back.

7:30

How American Jews are fair? And how are we doing?

7:33

How are we surviving as a people? These are all

7:35

important initials. How many American Jews are they? We'll talk

7:37

about that. Our guests is an expert. First of all,

7:40

we last had him on in the capacity of dealing

7:42

with the Middle East, where he's an expert at Israel and this Arab neighbors.

7:46

He was in the Reagan administration.

7:48

He was Assistant Secretary of State, he handled relations with

7:51

Israel's a deputy National security advisor the George W.

7:54

Bush administration.

7:55

But now he is chairman of Tikvah, which is an

7:59

organization that's doing a lot with Jewish identity Jewish politics.

8:02

He's written four books, as latest is called If You

8:05

Will It, Rebuilding Jewish Peoplehood for the twenty fir a century.

8:09

Elliot Abrams is our guest, the graduate of Harvard College

8:12

Harvard Law School. His other book, I think we had

8:14

him on Faith or Fear, How Jews can survive in

8:17

a Christian America.

8:18

Welcome back to the program.

8:19

Thank you, it's been a while. I'm glad to do it.

8:22

Thank you. I know you more from dealing with Israel

8:24

and now dealing internally, and your fascinating book deals with

8:28

the challenges American Jews has and how American Jews can

8:31

really survive in America. We're into marriage, assimilation and culturation

8:36

is eating at the fabric of American Jews. Tell us

8:39

how many American Jews are there? Because I like the

8:42

number six million. I think you're right about seven million.

8:44

I've seen people write less.

8:46

What number are You're right the Pew study, which is

8:49

the biggest study, he says seven and a half million, But I don't think seven point five million is right.

8:55

The great Israeli demographer Sergio Della Pergol at the Hebrew

8:59

University says six point three million. I think that's a

9:02

lot closer. So six a little over six is probably

9:06

the best will do.

9:07

Now, American Jews have been assimilating in and culturating for

9:11

a while into marrying AB's Irish Rose was a movie

9:14

going back, right, You all say Bridget and Burney, which

9:17

had controversy where you had Jews and non Jews marrying.

9:20

You have this series on Netflix where you have a rabbi.

9:23

I'm not sure he's considered conservative reform, but he ducks

9:26

being a rabbi, which he loves so much, to be

9:29

with a non Jewish woman.

9:30

So you see all these signs and trends.

9:32

I know, look, magazine did an article and what was

9:35

the number of years ago is the vanishing American Jew?

9:38

They disappeared the Jew is still here, but to what degree?

9:42

Because I think our assimilation is really changing because today

9:47

you have, for example, I think maybe during COVID a

9:49

lot change because instead of going to synagogue in the

9:52

non orthodox world, you can zoom.

9:55

So I think places still zoom.

9:56

And if I can zoom, aga zoom to any congregation in America, I don't have to zoom to my local synagogue.

10:01

I think the numbers are bad. Let me say that there's a lot of let's call it fraying at the

10:07

edges or erosion. Here's an example. There's two point four

10:10

million children in America growing up in a home with

10:13

two Jewish parents or one Jewish parent. Of them, half

10:18

half are being raised exclusively as Jews. The other half

10:22

are being raised as nothing or as Christians and Jews

10:26

or as Christians half. So no, we're not going to

10:30

lose one hundred percent of those. We're going to lose a lot of those. So I think there are a

10:35

lot of ways of looking at the numbers. But if

10:38

you ask Jews, American Jews, how important is it to

10:42

you that your grandchildren be Jewish? Fewer than half say

10:46

it's very important to me. And if it's not important

10:48

to you. You know you're not going to do much about it.

10:50

You're absolutely gork I was in Poland a number of

10:52

years ago. It was a trip to going to the

10:57

name of the city would come to me, and a lot of people came there. It was you know, it

11:02

was Plaza, pleaded the Chief envoy of Israel. But allow

11:05

was there. In other words, they were they're dedicating Uh.

11:07

It was a city which I had thirty three percent Jews.

11:10

And I met a young man, I think from Sweden,

11:12

handsome young man, and I said, why are you here

11:15

from me? Goes, well, his father is here, his grandfather who they're connecting to his past. His grandfather came from

11:19

the town, survivor of the Holocaust, and he's here. And

11:23

I had to a conversation with him and I go, will you marry a Jewish woman? He goes absolutely not.

11:28

I go, why not? It's not important to my parents,

11:30

It's not important to me. So I said them, forgive me for asking this question. You're here to connect to

11:34

your Jewish past. You have no Jewish future, say sort

11:37

of admitted to me. And I told him. I try to tell him there attractive young ladies in Israel. He

11:41

should maybe check out Israel. I don't win impact that

11:43

I had. But that's you hit it on the head.

11:46

If it's not important to your parents that you marry Jewish and be Jewish, why should they be Jewish?

11:50

So how do you get around that? Elliott?

11:52

Well, what I say in the book is if you don't care, you don't care. I mean, you can't persuade

11:57

someone who is simply not interested us to assimilate. But

12:01

what if you care? What if you're a parent or

12:03

a grandparent non Orthodox? Now we're talking. If you're a parent,

12:06

you're a grandparent, you're a philanthropist, you got a foundation,

12:08

or you're at a Jewish organization? What can be done

12:12

that works? And I say in the book there are

12:15

three things we can get into it. One of them

12:17

is better Jewish education. One of them is Jewish summer camp,

12:22

which is actually very important. And the third is time

12:26

in Israel. And the more the better. And that works

12:29

because you know, my grandparents, for example, were born in Europe.

12:33

They were immigrants, so I was raised around people speaking

12:36

Yiddish in a Jewish neighborhood. That's not what happens to

12:40

kids today. You know, everybody moved to the suburbs. That's

12:42

for World War two, and people don't live in that

12:46

kind of immersive, dense Jewish experience. You have to create it.

12:51

You have to intentionally create it. It's not automatic anymore.

12:55

And where do you create it? In a Jewish school,

12:58

in a Jewish camp and by going to Israel. I

13:01

give you one number that I think will surprise you and the listener. You know what percentage of American Jews

13:07

have been to Israel once after twenty years of birthright?

13:10

Very small amount, but thirteen percent.

13:13

Fewer than half. And this is a really bad number.

13:16

If you compare Canadian Jews, Australian Jews, British Juice, French juice.

13:20

In those countries it's eighty ninety percent.

13:23

So the number again in the United States.

13:28

Birthright, counting all the tens of thousands who been. So

13:31

what it tells us, I think is if you care,

13:34

you have to do something. You can't sit and watch.

13:37

It is not automatic anymore. You have to create that

13:41

sense of Jewish identity.

13:43

Can I recommend well, I know birthright is important, it's

13:46

really aimed for college, because I think it's already too late.

13:48

They should be starting in high school. Now, what about

13:52

having the funds from the philanthropists and from the federations

13:55

that every child turns bar or bought mitzvah, they sponsor

14:00

a trip to Israel for the family, because.

14:04

A lot of synagogus and federations do that where they say,

14:08

you know, will we'll give or at least they make

14:10

a contribution. Money has a lot to do with all

14:13

of this, because there's a lot of Jewish families they're

14:16

not rich, that would like to go to Israel, but

14:19

it's expensive to take the whole family, or they like

14:21

to send the kids to camp for a couple of months.

14:23

You know how expensive that can be. There are programs

14:26

that try to do this, but I'm with you. I

14:29

mean these team tours of Israel that for high school

14:32

kids very very important because you know what, there have

14:36

been studies now of news on college campuses after October seventh,

14:42

and there's a kind of myth that you know, everybody,

14:44

every Jewish student has waked up and they're now all activists.

14:49

Not true. What's true is the kids who get to

14:53

college with a strong Jewish background become more active, more identified.

15:00

Did you get to college with nothing, have nothing, and

15:03

they don't change overright, So you know you're right in

15:06

suggesting they're going to get to college with some Jewish idea.

15:10

And I'm talking birthright for high school kids. That are

15:13

about why it should be not just done individual, it

15:17

should be on a national level. There should be the priority of all the Jewish organizations to make sure you're

15:23

having a bar mitzvah. Because what happened with the Burns

15:25

is the beginning in the end of Jewish education. For

15:28

the shows I intrew ed Asnu passed away recently. You know,

15:31

he grew au porthodox. I don't if you're aware that. No,

15:33

he had bar mitza. So I chatted with him and

15:37

he and when I spoke the we didn't even know what Knico was. He was so removed from Judaism. I go,

15:41

do you remember anything for your Barmitzrik goes absolutely not.

15:43

Then he starts saying borhoi shamhamvoa, and you know, but

15:48

to him, that was the beginning of the end of Judaism.

15:50

Practically for many American Jews, if they have a bar mitza,

15:53

that's it.

15:54

Yeah, and you know we have this model, We've had

15:57

it for I don't know since World War Two. Certainly

16:00

that Jurish education is done in the synagogue. And you know,

16:04

if you think of it, why would it be true that every senatologue in America has a terrific Hebrew school.

16:10

They don't. A lot of them are not very good Hebrew schools. That's part of the problem that we've you know,

16:15

this is all diffuse. It's all done in synagogues, and

16:18

many many are second rate.

16:20

Right, and even that turns off more kids than turns

16:23

them on, unfortunately, from what I've heard. So what do

16:26

we do about it?

16:27

Because education is really the key, and the Orthodox community

16:30

you have, it's.

16:31

A strong stress and the tuition is high, but parents

16:34

make sacrifice for their education. In the non Orthodox world,

16:38

parents are not willing to make that sacrifice. I spoke

16:41

to a parent and they said, why don't you send your kid to y Achieva? Well, it's expense like it,

16:45

but you're spending so much money on this vacation of

16:47

that vacation, isn't your kids education worth something? Say look

16:52

at me? And he said I was right. So yes,

16:54

it has to be a priority of parents. But perhaps

16:57

we should be investing in having scholarship where kids can go,

17:01

especially when the public schools today are really a wasteland

17:04

with drugs and wokeness, et cetera. So it's a good opera.

17:07

I know Tikas has a school in Manhattan. We just

17:10

started just what you're capitalizing on this, right.

17:13

Right, We just started school just down September called Emmett

17:17

Classical Academy. Look, there are experiments with this. There's one

17:20

in Toronto, for example, to try to get the price

17:24

down and to talk with the families and give them

17:26

a price cap that is, you have two kids, you

17:28

have three kids, you will never be paying more than

17:31

this amount. In Washington State, in Seattle, there's a foundation,

17:36

Samus Foundation that said will subsidize. And of course if

17:41

not every kid is going to go to Jewish day school,

17:44

but more would if there was help. Or as the

17:48

guy in Toronto put it, for Orthodox Jews, the demand

17:52

is in elastic everybody goes. But for non Orthodox Jews

17:56

it's very elastic demand. And if you help with the finances,

18:00

you are going to get more gigs going Emmett that

18:03

we started in Manhattan. You know, we're getting kids from

18:06

these fancy private schools that where the parents have decided,

18:10

you know, they can't go there anymore. It's so woke,

18:13

it's so andy Semitic, it's so andy Israel that they

18:17

want the kids to come out. But there need to

18:19

be alternatives, there need to be opportunities. That's what we're

18:22

trying to create.

18:23

As we were talking, I had into it a father and Israeli father in his school. I've got which part

18:27

of the country that Hitler on the wall as being

18:30

a hero, and he was incensed over it, and they said,

18:33

why are you sending your kid to such a school? Why did it send it to a Jewish school. I

18:36

think his parents would have liked to do that. But you have the belief that they're going to send them

18:40

to a public school despite all this anti semitism and

18:43

well the wokeness that exists. Hitler was a hero on

18:46

the wall in this particular school. Wow, you can't make

18:49

some of the stuff up that exists out there. Elliot

18:52

abrams our guests that he's written a fascinating book, if

18:54

you will it Rebuilding Jewish People for the twenty first century.

18:59

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20:01

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custom made orthotics, whether it's plentifags, right as.

22:43

Bunyance with just everyday aches. Don't let foot pain hold

22:46

you back.

22:47

Also, I have practice feed flexology, combining my knowledge of

22:51

feet and lower extremity issues with Eastern medicine. I like

22:53

to think of myself as a sole healer, not just

22:56

a podiatrist. Visit my new Flappish office atnineteen eleven Avenue

23:01

l right across from the Women's Mikvah and around the

23:03

block from Young Israel of Midwood, or my Borough Park

23:07

office at fourteen fifty three forty fourth Street or at

23:10

Munsey at four Horizon Court. Please call me at nine

23:14

one seven nine three zero fifty eight hundred that's nine

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23:44

You're listening to Talk Line with Zev Brenner, America's premier

23:47

Jewish broadcast on the air since nineteen eighty one, and

23:51

now here's your host.

23:55

Elliot Abrams our guests that he's written a fascinating book,

23:57

if you will it Rebuilding Jewish People with the twenty

24:00

first century. He was a Deputy National Security Advisor in

24:04

George W. Bush administration. He's the chairman of the Tick

24:07

for Fund. I want you to put on the Israel hat because in your book what I found amazing. I

24:12

would have thought that after the creation of the State

24:14

of Israel and other pivotal moments in Israel, that American

24:17

Jews become more Israel oriented, more Zionistic. And you write

24:22

that the polls show that Israel has not been a

24:25

priority even after the creation of the state. Only a

24:27

certain times that ebbs where they come more Zionistic than

24:30

it goes back to where they're either apathetic or non

24:33

Zionist or anti Zionists.

24:34

Yeah, it's what happens. I mean, for example, when Israel

24:37

was being created. There was a burst of enthusiasm to

24:40

get it done nineteen forty eight, and then you know,

24:44

it just ebbs away. It comes back in nineteen sixty seven,

24:47

nineteen seventy three with the wars. If you look at

24:50

Israel bonds for Temple sixty seven, it goes up, you know, amazingly,

24:54

and then it comes down. This is not going to

24:56

save us. I see people today saying, you know, October

24:59

seven everything for American Jews. Well, I don't think so.

25:03

I think again, it's another one of these moments. The

25:07

question is what's going to be Where will we be

25:09

in one, two, three, five, ten years from now? And

25:13

I don't think again, it's not automatic. We've got to

25:16

do things that create that link to Israel, and nothing

25:21

is better. You can teach it, but nothing is better

25:24

than visiting. There's just no substitute for being there. And again,

25:28

Jews from all over the world do it much more

25:32

frequently than we do. We are the worst major diaspora

25:36

community when it comes to visiting Israel and spending time

25:41

in Israel. So I don't expect this terrible moment of

25:46

October seventh last year, or even the anti Semitism that

25:51

we're seeing on campuses. To really transform the American Jewish community.

25:56

We have to do it.

25:57

We can't say, you know, israel It or antisemitism will

26:02

do it.

26:02

We have When you say who is the WI, the

26:05

wei is.

26:06

The organized Jewish community, but the we is also parents

26:09

and grandparents. It's it's the parents and grandparents who got

26:13

to make that decision. For example them, that's right. Well

26:17

for some, for some, I think they think this is

26:21

just gonna happen because we have a good you know,

26:24

we have a good Jewish family. Well then you ask people, well,

26:27

but what what are you doing about education? What are

26:30

you doing about summer camp? Well, they go to camp Jewish camp. Well, no, they've got to make these decisions.

26:36

And as you were saying, it's there's a question of

26:38

priorities here. What are you what are you spending your

26:41

money on. I talk to people who've just taken their

26:43

kids to France, They've just taken their kids to Camp Kun,

26:48

They've just taken their you know, go to Israel. Go

26:51

to Israel, junior, you're abroad, don't go to Scotland, don't

26:56

go to Geneva. Go to Israel. And that's not even

27:00

more expensive. Because the kids are often going anyway. So

27:04

this is for donors, it's for philanthropists, but the first

27:07

responsibility is the parents and grandparents.

27:09

No, I agree with you, but the problem is we

27:11

live in such a woke society. Listen.

27:13

I did a show prior to the past of a

27:15

holiday where parents who are pro Israel went to workshop

27:19

how to deal with the kids that coming from colleges that are anti Israel.

27:22

You have that problem too.

27:23

I don't know what the numbers are, but I'm sure

27:25

it's bigger than we want to acknowledge. Yes, they're people

27:28

from October seventh who become more committed. There are also

27:30

people who have become more pro Hamas, pro Palestinian pro

27:34

Ceasfire Group.

27:35

True, although those kids, mostly we're talking statistics, are kids

27:40

who do not have this kind of strong Jewish background.

27:44

But you just mentioned college, and there's one other thing

27:46

to say. You're you know, as a community, we wanted to go to the most prestigious fifty or one hundred

27:50

colleges in America.

27:51

But you went to Harvard.

27:52

I did. And when I went to Harvard, you know, it was about a third Jewish, and now it's not

27:56

even half that same for the whole IVY League. So

27:59

I think you've got to be thinking again. You get

28:01

back to parents, don't look for the prestige. Don't send

28:04

your kid to a campus that's a battleground of anti Semitism.

28:08

Think about the places that want Jews that are helping

28:12

defend yours. One example the University of Florida. There are

28:16

more Jews in the University of Florida than any other

28:18

college in America. And you may remember what happened when

28:23

these demonstrations started. The president Van ben Sas said, we

28:28

don't do daycare. We don't do daycare. This is a university.

28:31

You know what the rules are, you've all had them, violate them, you're out. So parents need to be thinking

28:37

as you were saying, about what's going on in those

28:39

colleges and selecting not on the basis of somebody's idea

28:42

of prestige, but what will the experience be for your

28:46

child when it comes to being a Jew and being

28:49

pro Isroe.

28:50

It's hard.

28:50

I have a daughter and son in law and Harvard and they feel the anthemis and my daughter became an

28:54

activist in Barnard because of the anti sevens speaking outs

28:58

but not everybody can be an activist, some of them

29:00

hide their Jewishness because of what's going on too, and

29:03

that's part of the problem.

29:04

Doing You mentioned something else in.

29:05

The book, We need strong committed Jews a because we

29:09

have to be part of our religion, but also for

29:11

Israel needs that support. We've been relying very heavily on

29:14

Christian support for Israel. They're much greater, the evangelical Christians

29:18

are larger numbers. But what concerns me and you touch

29:20

on in a book, according to the studies, is that

29:23

a lot of these Christian younger generation are coming back

29:26

anti Israel woke.

29:28

It's absolutely right. I mean, if you look at young

29:30

Evangelicals not as supportive of Israel as their parents, young

29:35

Democrats not as supportive, Young Jews not as supportive. So

29:40

you got to build this. I mean, this is very important for Israel because their pillars of support in the

29:44

United States seem to be weakening. The way to strengthen them,

29:49

in large part is to make sure the Jewish community

29:52

at least remains strong and dedicated.

29:55

Well, you have a birthright for Christians, I believe too,

29:57

don't we.

29:58

There is called the Pelos that runs these programs very

30:01

important for young evangelicals.

30:04

Exactly, but we have to do a lot more for Jews. Who's funding the birthright for Christians is that Christian groups,

30:11

Jewish groups.

30:11

Jewish groups. I believe, yeah, And it's a good investment

30:15

because you know, there are more Christians than Jews in America.

30:19

Hard to believe sometimes, but it's true, very hard, very

30:23

hard to very hard to believe too. But I think

30:25

we're at a crossroads because the pace is moved a lot,

30:30

a lot now, more so than the years past, because

30:32

of the Internet and people like you said, there is

30:35

no Jewish neighbors. Even if you grew up in a

30:37

conservative reform household, you chances all you lived in the

30:40

Jewish area, Jewish stores. Now you can live anywhere, and

30:44

you can do through zoom in the part of it. So it's hard to reverse. It's hard to even reach

30:48

out to the American Jews.

30:50

It's a great thing in one way, right, I mean the greatness of America. You can assimilate, you're free, you

30:56

can live in the whole society. But for a small minority,

30:59

and we're not much more than two percent of the population,

31:03

it can be very corrosive because we just we lose people.

31:06

We lose a lot of people.

31:08

No, we certainly do.

31:09

But the Orthodox community is growing because that's becoming stronger

31:13

and more solidified. The education is better than it was,

31:17

and in fact, a lot of people would send their kid to an Orthodox school because the secular studies are

31:21

someone that we're up to par with some of the high end schools in the secular society.

31:26

And the Orthodox, of course, because they need to be able to walk to Synegague. They do live in this

31:31

kind of dance Jewish community that the rest of American

31:35

Jews don't live.

31:36

Our guest is Elliott Abrams is fascinating.

31:38

The book is called if You Will It Rebuilding the

31:41

Jewish People for the twenty first Century. His chairman of

31:43

a ticket fund here in New York City, a board

31:46

member of the Jewish People Policy Institute in Jerusalem.

31:49

And we're going to be right back.

31:50

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You don't have to be famous to have a memoir,

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36:52

Hey, Hey, this is Alan Durshowitz. One of the most

36:55

important Jewish institutions in the world today is talk Line

36:59

with zeb brand.

37:00

He is so smart, and he is so innovative, and

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he has so many interesting guests.

37:07

I don't know what I.

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so Zev Yashikoch.

37:15

May you go from strength to strength and keep informing us,

37:18

in educating us, and keep fighting for Jewish values.

37:22

Our guest is Elliott Abrams is fascinating.

37:24

The book is called If You Will, Rebuilding the Jewish

37:27

People for the twenty first Century. His chairman of a

37:29

ticket fund here in New York City, a board member

37:31

of the Jewish People Policy Institute in Jerusalem. He went

37:35

to the Ivy League School. So if you had to do it over today, would you still go to Harvard?

37:38

Would you go to a different school?

37:39

I'd go to the Harvard of the years when I

37:41

went in the sixties, I don't think I would send

37:45

a child today.

37:46

It's a different environment. Now, let me ask you this question.

37:49

The Orthodox community, thank are that the rate of intermarriages,

37:52

similationion color is low because there's a commitment to Judaism.

37:56

Can you build a Jewish identity in America just on

38:01

Israel justin going to summer camp. Don't you need a

38:03

more immersion for it to really work, because it doesn't

38:06

seem to work unless you have a stronger commitment than

38:10

just even going to Israel.

38:11

Well, this is a really great question. That is, let's say,

38:16

what's the role of Judaism? That is, can Jews survive

38:19

in America outside the Orthodox community. My answer to that is,

38:24

I think so. I'm not downplaying the religious element. And

38:28

after all, who are the non Orthodox Jews who may

38:31

become more religious. They are the rest of the community.

38:34

They're kind of the reserve army of Jews who might

38:37

become more religious. But I think it is possible to

38:42

build Jewish identity if you use those building blocks. Your

38:46

kids are educated, your kids go to summer camp where

38:50

they are surrounded by Jews, and they see role models

38:54

Jewish councilors. Israeli is often coming to these camps. I

39:00

mean Israel. Think of a college, who's nineteen. What are

39:02

they doing?

39:03

In the US?

39:04

You worry about exams, you worry about whether you're going

39:06

to win Ultimate Frisbee or not. Go to Israel and

39:10

meet your equals there who are nineteen. You know where

39:13

they are. They're in Gaza, They're in Lebanon, fighting for

39:17

their country, risking their life for their country. That is

39:20

I think the most life changing experience for young American Jews.

39:24

But here's the problem with questions to sustainability. And let's

39:27

be honest, the conservative movement, which in the fifties was

39:30

so strong, has imploded. The reform movement again has changed.

39:34

You don't even have to be Jewish to be part of the reform movement. It's a whole change of religious as.

39:39

Synagogues don't have the same value that they have. So yes,

39:42

you're going to Stress summer camp. I'm believer there should

39:45

be a stronger Jewish, non Jewish, non Orthodox Jewish education.

39:48

There should be, but that requires lots of money and

39:51

giving scholarships and helping people and educating the whole people,

39:54

and only those who are going to go have a stronger commitment. To begin with, the vast majority of American

39:58

Jews are not really that interested, unfortunately.

40:01

Many or not. If you look at the Jewish community,

40:04

let's pick a your twenty fifty, it's going to be

40:06

more Orthodox because we will have had more erosion. But

40:09

the Orthodox birth rate is good. It's better than replacement.

40:13

If you look at the American Jewish community today, it's

40:15

about teen percent Orthodox, but look at the five year olds,

40:18

that's more like fifteen percent Orthodox because they're staying Jewish

40:22

and they're having children. So that's gonna happen. It's going

40:25

to be the Orthodox will be a larger portion of

40:28

the American Jewish community. But for the Jews who care

40:32

for thinking, how do I do this? I'm not Orthodox.

40:35

You can't argue, you know, you can't say to a parent,

40:37

here's what you gotta do, you gotta be Orthodox. It just doesn't work as a formula. There are things you

40:42

can do. And those Jewish kids who go to college

40:45

and end up being activists, they're not all Orthodox, but

40:49

they're kids who who say, well, in my family, it

40:52

was important my family, we have Friday night dinner together Shabbah,

40:56

and my family belong to a synagogue. My parents took

40:59

me to Israel, we went to a Jewish summer camp.

41:02

Those are the building blocks and if you care, that's

41:05

what you got to do.

41:06

Oh, I agree, Well, listen, we need to do something.

41:09

Both of the education.

41:10

Summer camp I think is a great way because it's

41:13

not as expensive as education, So to both of the

41:15

summer camps, it's a great thing. The question that I

41:18

just had about sustainability for the next generation is to

41:21

come and listen. You have plenty of people that grew

41:24

up in strong Jewish households. Appearance may not have been

41:28

worth fact, but committed to Israel, to Judaism, and how

41:31

many of them have assimilated in the culture and not

41:33

active a lot?

41:35

And you know, and of course intermarriage plays a large

41:38

role for non orthodox Jews. The intermarriage raised in the seventies.

41:41

Now it's over seventy percent. And we know what the

41:45

impact is, you know on Jewish continuity. It hurts. I'm

41:50

not going about conversions, now that's a different story. I'm

41:54

talking about households where there are true religions that you know,

41:58

very often confuses the kid and very often leads to

42:01

a much weaker Jewish identity.

42:04

Well, I think you're writing your book that the kids who have a Jewish and Christian parent tended to be

42:10

mostly not Jewish. They don't follow in the religion. That's

42:12

just the number show.

42:14

Yeah, it's what the number show.

42:15

Again.

42:16

Parents can do something about that. But there's no way

42:19

of overlooking what the intermarriage rate has been doing to

42:24

the American Jewish community. It's been very corrosive.

42:28

Now, part of the problem is is that you had

42:31

the erosion of the conservative movement, of the reform movement.

42:34

How big of a factor is RaBaD Rabbat to a

42:37

certain degree has rivaled conservative and reform camera Outside of

42:41

New York City, most of their membership or or ones

42:43

that ordinell we go to a conservative reform temple.

42:46

How have they changing the American Jewish landscape.

42:48

It's a very interesting question, and I think there needs

42:52

to be more There need to be more studies of it. Chris,

42:54

they have another magic ingredient, which is no dudes and

43:00

stop a lot of families when they look at the you know what a synagogue costs. I think part of

43:05

it is that they're there for people who need it

43:09

very occasionally, like I'm traveling and I have to say

43:12

Scottish for my father. So you go to Caban and

43:17

they're there for people who are seeking, you know, who

43:20

find a conservative or reform synagogue not meaningful enough to them.

43:28

They're on a lot of campuses now and they're all

43:31

over the country. In a way, it's you know, really it's miraculous if you think of where they started at

43:36

the end of World War Two, with basically nothing, and

43:40

if you ask any of the experts back then, they would have told you it's hopeless. They're going to disappear,

43:45

and Orthodoxy is going to disappear in this country. So

43:48

it's been a miraculous change. But I think the question

43:52

is who reaches out to Caban. That is, the college

43:54

student for example, who goes there, has to want to

43:57

go there.

43:58

Well, they get they reach out to people have these

44:00

misfic tanks and they go, are you Jewish to put

44:02

on filling and they they're known for that, and they

44:06

actually go with there. They're not just waiting for you to come to them. It's not with Mantam'll come to

44:11

Mohammahamma go to the mountains. So to speak, and they

44:13

go to them, They go to the people.

44:15

I think one of the things that works, and it

44:17

makes BOD work is they're so welcoming, they're not judgmental,

44:23

they want to help. And I gave a lecture so

44:26

some years ago at Harvard and then they said, then

44:28

we'll do a lunch for the students who come Jewish students.

44:32

And I said, we're going to do that at the Hillel House and they said, no, We're going to do

44:36

it a kabat. Everybody feels comfortable there. So they've really

44:40

achieved something remarkable on so many campuses in the US.

44:44

So you optimistic or pessimistic about the saving of American jury.

44:48

I think we're going to be a smaller community, but I think we're going to be we can be a

44:53

vibrant community. So I'm mostly optimistic.

44:55

Because you have people such as Doug M. Hoffley, first gentleman.

45:00

He talks about his being Jewish as his fronment, yet

45:03

his kids are not technically Jewish, and they support the

45:06

Palestinians and they support come Us.

45:08

We've seen that some of in some very good families,

45:12

and I think there are a lot of Jewish parents wondering what did I do wrong? But if you look

45:16

at the statistic, it's no mystery. How do we have

45:19

a college kid with a good attitude toward Judias and

45:23

Jewishness in Israel? There are these obvious building blocks, and

45:27

that's what you have to do. Well.

45:28

I think you hit on the head. You see, just growing up in a Jewish household. You have to have

45:33

something concrete. That's what a Judaic thought, that's a Jewish philosophy.

45:36

It's not enough to say I'm going to do unless you take concrete action. As great as your intentions are

45:41

on your Kipper or Russia Shana to be a different person,

45:44

unless you take steps to do it, ain't going to happen.

45:47

Yep, not in this country. There's great open society. If

45:50

you don't do it, if you don't work on it,

45:52

if you don't intentionally build your kid's Jewish identity, it's

45:57

going to disappear.

45:58

So let me ask us. I know you're the chairman tick for Fun. Is there any movement? And this should

46:03

be a wake up quote, but I think the Jewish community is sleeping at the wheels as far as making

46:08

any changes. So how do we shake things up that

46:11

there should be a national consensus, a national movement among

46:16

Jews of all backgrounds. I don't care if you're religious,

46:18

not religious, to save Judaism in America, to make a

46:22

stronger committed jew.

46:24

How do we get this off the ground?

46:25

Well, part of it is just families. That is, don't

46:28

wait for the Jewish Community Council, don't wait for the

46:31

you know, national organizations. Think about what's happening in your

46:35

own family. Are you doing what you ought to be doing?

46:39

Then?

46:39

I think it's it's people getting together. I mean, we

46:42

open Tika opened this new school in Manhattan, and we've

46:45

had inquiries from parents in Washington, d c. In other

46:50

parts of the country in the South saying how do.

46:52

We do that?

46:53

We don't like the offerings here. Our school MT is

46:57

not an Orthodox day school, it's a Jewish day school

47:00

and a lot of parents have asked us about that too.

47:02

Well, how you get around that?

47:04

Do you?

47:04

I believe you have some Orthodox students too. Correct.

47:06

We have you know, obviously kosher food, and we have

47:10

mourning services which are voluntary. But I'll tell you what

47:13

we don't do and many Orthodox schools do. If you

47:16

say we're Jewish family and we want to send our kids.

47:19

We don't send investigators. We don't ask you what do

47:23

you mean you're Jewish? Who's Jewish? How are they Jewish?

47:27

What do you practice in the home? We say, great,

47:30

send the children and we'll teach them and will help

47:34

you build a better Jewish identity.

47:36

So you don't ask them if they're Jewish.

47:38

We don't ask them about, for example, who converted. If

47:42

it's the mother, let's say what who converted you? We

47:45

don't ask that question.

47:46

We expect standards that they have to be Jewish, but

47:48

you're not going to check us in.

47:50

We don't have Jewish Christian students, but we don't ask

47:52

you know, what's the status of the conversion, and which

47:56

parent is Jewish? Assuming one is and one isn't. And

47:59

most of the kids you know are classically Jewish and

48:01

a latic sense, but others are not. Some some have

48:05

come from Orthodox day schools, some from the fancy private schools,

48:09

some from the very good public schools like stuiveisant and

48:13

they want more Jewish content. But you said something before,

48:17

that's very important. They've got to be very good schools.

48:21

Parents are not going to send their children to a second rate Jewish school. They want it to be as

48:26

good as the best private schools, and we can do

48:29

that in the Jewish community. We can do that, and

48:32

that's what we're trying to start with with this program.

48:36

And we're working with the University of Florida to inject

48:40

i'd say more Jewish content in their honors programs because

48:44

there's no reason why that can it be a mecca

48:47

for Jewish students.

48:48

Well, are they promoting themselves to Jewish students. You have

48:50

to want to appeal to them. Are they doing this homework?

48:54

Yep. And we're going to be helping them in dealing

48:57

with Jewish day schools for example the country that where

49:01

the students may not be thinking of University of Florida,

49:06

they should be thinking about it.

49:07

Now.

49:07

Here's the interesting thing. Schools such as Columbia Born or

49:10

at NYU don't really want the same amount of Jewish

49:13

students that they had in the past. They used to be strongholds of Jewish students, including Orthodox students. Today they

49:19

wanted in the name of diversification, they want to get

49:22

people from around the country.

49:23

Guess what that means less Jews from New York.

49:25

Absolutely, it's way down I mean in every Ivy League school,

49:29

which again in the in the sixties. I'd say the

49:31

fifties were third Jewish, They're ten percent Jewish, they're twelve

49:36

percent Jewish. It's it's on the way down. And of

49:39

course for the Jewish war there it is a much

49:41

less welcoming experience than it was a generation or Truigo Elliott.

49:47

What was your.

49:49

Most shocking revelation doing research.

49:52

For your book Shocking Revolution?

49:54

What was on that caught you by surprise or you

49:57

didn't anticipate when you wrote the book and you discovered

49:59

it while you're doing the research.

50:01

How much a Jewish college student's reaction to the college

50:09

and to the anti Semitism and the wokeism is actually

50:13

dependent on what they get to the campus with. It's

50:16

not what happens on campus, it's what they arrive with.

50:19

It's their background and their upbringing.

50:21

Ellie Abras, what is your next book going to be?

50:23

Oh? God, I don't know. Give me a few years man.

50:27

Anyway, The book is called if You Will It Rebuilding

50:30

Jewish People for the twenty first Century's written by Elie Abras,

50:33

a sherman of tip of Fund. It's great to have

50:35

you back again. I know well last time we discussed the Middle East and politics. But this is also very

50:39

important because in order to have a strong is when

50:41

we'd have strong American Jews that is supportive of Israel.

50:45

And unfortunately we have to do our homework where we're

50:47

falling way way behind where we should be.

50:50

We are, Thanks Eev, it's been great to be on with you again.

50:52

Thank you.

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