0:28

Coming to you from Sicha,

0:31

Spain at this point. I

0:33

arrived yesterday afternoon.

0:35

Slept 11 hours last night,

0:38

walked around today. I

0:40

recorded this intro while I

0:43

was walking around, but I

0:45

just listened to it and

0:47

it's too fucking noisy. Don't

0:50

want to subject you to

0:52

all the traffic and the

0:54

weirdness. out on the

0:56

streets and also like

0:58

my distraction. I found that it's

1:01

strange for me to be

1:03

walking down the street talking

1:05

to myself. So there were lots

1:07

of long pauses and I

1:09

kind of lost the thread

1:11

of what I was talking

1:13

about. It's strange. I got

1:15

these these new microphones and

1:17

they're awesome. They're these little

1:20

clip-on things. They're wireless

1:23

lapel mics basically. and

1:25

they make the whole rigmarole,

1:27

all the gear of podcasting,

1:29

they break it down to

1:31

something, you know, as small

1:33

as a mobile phone. And

1:36

so they're super convenient, but

1:38

I found that after over

1:41

a decade of doing this,

1:43

not holding a microphone in

1:46

my hand or having a

1:48

microphone on the table in

1:50

front of me is strange.

1:53

I guess I'm just so

1:55

used to the signifiers of

1:58

recording that to just

2:00

be talking into nothing is

2:02

strange to me. Like I want

2:04

to have a microphone. It reminds

2:06

me of, you know, like these

2:09

talk shows, you know, David

2:11

Letterman or Jimmy Kimmel or

2:13

whatever, all these fucking late

2:15

night talk shows. Those people

2:17

are all miked up with

2:19

lapel mics, but they've got

2:21

this microphone on the desk

2:23

in front of them. that's

2:26

not connected to anything.

2:28

It's not an active

2:30

microphone. It's just a prop.

2:32

And I always assumed it was

2:35

for the audience, you know, to

2:37

sort of create the effect of,

2:39

you know, the visuals of a

2:41

talk show. But now I'm thinking

2:44

maybe it's actually for the

2:46

host. Maybe it's the host

2:48

who likes to have the

2:51

microphone in front of them,

2:53

because it somehow makes it

2:55

feel right. I'm not sure

2:57

how that works. Anyway, I'm

3:00

coming to you from my

3:02

friend Martin's apartment in

3:04

Sitches. Martin is one

3:07

of my best friends.

3:10

I've known him since 1989.

3:12

I've learned so much from

3:15

him. I've asked him many

3:17

times to be on the

3:19

podcast and he has

3:22

always demured. I'm

3:24

not sure, 100% sure

3:26

why. I try to

3:29

respect that when people

3:32

choose not to tell

3:34

their stories to

3:37

strangers. I

3:39

definitely get it.

3:41

And Martin is

3:43

a private and

3:45

humble guy in

3:48

a way. He's humble,

3:50

but he's awesome. But

3:52

he's not self-promoter

3:55

but so probably won't

3:57

have a podcast with

3:59

Martin But it's somewhat

4:01

appropriate that I'm sitting

4:04

in Martin's apartment. He's in

4:06

Holland. He's not here. So

4:08

he just lets me use

4:11

his place when he's gone.

4:13

He and his lovely wife,

4:15

Lanka, let me stay in

4:18

their place, which is spectacular

4:20

overlooking the Mediterranean.

4:22

It's one of those awesome things

4:25

when you have friends who...

4:27

have beautiful things and

4:29

share them with

4:32

you. But in any case,

4:34

it's somewhat appropriate

4:37

that I'm here I

4:40

guess because this episode

4:42

is a throwback to my

4:44

uncle Dan and my

4:47

uncle Dan is a

4:49

lot like Martin

4:51

and or was a lot

4:53

like Martin. in ways

4:55

that I probably can't

4:58

talk much about. Because,

5:00

as I said, Martin

5:02

has chosen not to

5:04

be on the podcast,

5:06

so I can't really

5:08

talk about him a

5:10

lot on the podcast. But

5:13

I guess one of the

5:15

things that I've learned from

5:17

Martin is a certain

5:20

self-respecting

5:22

shamelessness.

5:24

You know, in Spanish,

5:26

you call someone a

5:29

sinverguenta. It's an insult.

5:31

It means without shame.

5:34

It's an insult. But

5:36

the thing is, there is

5:38

shame and there's regret.

5:40

And I feel like

5:43

regret is an emotion

5:45

that helps us be

5:47

decent people. if we

5:50

have the sense to

5:52

regret mistakes we've made

5:54

or pain that we've

5:57

caused or unnecessary

6:00

confusion or suffering

6:02

or whatever, then that

6:04

helps us be better

6:06

people. Shame, at least as

6:09

I define it, is a it's

6:11

a useless emotion for

6:14

the person who's feeling

6:16

it. It's only useful

6:18

for the people who

6:20

make you feel it.

6:22

So shame is a

6:24

way of controlling people.

6:26

Shame is a way of

6:28

creating debt. in someone

6:31

else. So shame because

6:33

you're white or black

6:36

or Asian or short

6:38

or tall or fat

6:40

or gay or whatever.

6:42

That kind of shame

6:44

doesn't serve the person

6:47

who's feeling it. It

6:49

only serves the people

6:51

who want you to

6:54

feel it because it

6:56

creates a leverage.

6:58

they can use to

7:01

control you. Original

7:03

sin, for

7:05

example. You know, you're

7:08

born a sinner and

7:11

your life purpose needs

7:13

to be to atone

7:16

for the sin, with

7:18

which you were born.

7:20

I mean, what the

7:22

fuck is that? So

7:24

I don't buy that

7:27

stuff. militantly

7:29

rejected. And so

7:31

when I met Martin, this

7:33

is way back, I

7:35

met Martin at the

7:37

end of 1989 when

7:39

I first came to

7:41

Barcelona. He's one of the

7:44

first people I met here.

7:46

And he was very much

7:48

who he is and with

7:50

no apologies for

7:53

it. And I

7:55

found that fascinating.

7:58

inspiring and Yeah,

8:00

I've learned a

8:02

lot from him over

8:04

the years about how

8:07

to just be who

8:09

you are and not

8:11

worry about it. And

8:13

my Uncle Dan

8:16

has fulfilled a

8:18

similar role for

8:20

me. Uncle Dan

8:22

never apologized for

8:25

who he was

8:27

or what he thought.

8:30

He never set out

8:32

to hurt anyone or

8:34

cause any discomfort, but

8:37

sometimes he did because

8:39

he simply said whatever

8:42

the fuck he was thinking.

8:44

And anyway, I went to

8:47

LA, fuck, a week ago,

8:49

something like that, 10 days

8:51

ago. It was my birthday

8:54

on the 13th, and so I

8:56

went to LA to spend the...

8:58

You know, I kind of like

9:00

to be with my mom on

9:02

my birthday. It's been a sort

9:04

of a tradition for years.

9:06

When I was living in Spain, I

9:08

would fly back to visit my

9:11

parents in February because the

9:13

tickets were much cheaper and

9:15

flying over the holidays was

9:17

a fucking nightmare. And so

9:19

we all just agreed that

9:22

mid-February was a good time.

9:24

cheaper tickets and it was

9:26

my birthday and I'd spend

9:28

my birthday with my parents

9:31

so I tried to do that.

9:33

And so I flew to LA to

9:35

visit my mom on my birthday

9:37

and my aunt Dot, her

9:39

sister, came over for dinner

9:42

which was awesome because she

9:44

lives in Topanga and because

9:46

of the fires and mudslides

9:49

and all the craziness that's

9:51

happened. in Topanga recently, she

9:53

had to like go out to the San

9:55

Fernando Valley and come around. So it was

9:58

like an hour and a half drive. for

10:00

her to get to my mom's

10:02

house. Anyway, she came over and

10:04

with my sister and one of

10:07

my cousin's kids who I

10:09

recorded a podcast with, actually

10:11

David, you'll hear that in

10:13

the coming weeks. Anyway, we

10:16

were all there to have

10:18

dinner and my aunt's phone

10:20

rang and it was someone

10:22

calling from a hospital in

10:24

Florida saying that my uncle

10:27

Dan had had a... heart

10:29

attack and was on life

10:32

support machines

10:34

and he was basically

10:36

brain dead and

10:39

they were asking

10:41

for permission to

10:43

shut off the machines.

10:46

That came out of the

10:48

blue and you know

10:50

he had been diagnosed

10:53

with cancer a good

10:55

10 12 years ago.

10:58

First he had prostate cancer

11:00

and then he had some

11:02

other kind of cancer, very

11:04

rare cancer that only strikes

11:07

children generally and he's the

11:09

only adult I guess who's

11:11

ever had it, so he

11:13

was being studied by all

11:15

these different hospitals and given

11:18

experimental treatments and all

11:20

this. He had a

11:22

motorcycle accident in 2008.

11:24

totally got fucked up

11:26

from that. He's just

11:28

been sort of battered.

11:30

His daughter has had

11:32

medical issues. He's been

11:34

trying to help her.

11:36

His ex-wife was suffering

11:38

from dementia. He took

11:41

her and this is

11:43

someone he was divorced

11:45

from 20 years ago, but

11:47

he rescued her and was

11:49

taking care of her. And

11:51

anyway, he's been, he's gone through

11:53

a lot. But

11:56

he was an awesome

11:58

person and When

12:00

I was a kid I used

12:02

to go up to his place

12:05

in upstate New York.

12:07

In the summer I went

12:09

a few times and he

12:12

got out his canoes and

12:14

we would go on these

12:16

three four night canoeing

12:19

camping trips. Over

12:21

the years I learned a

12:23

lot about how to live

12:25

from my uncle Dan.

12:29

And when I have

12:31

a little more emotional

12:33

distance, I'll talk more

12:36

about that. But for now

12:38

I'm just going to

12:40

play you some excerpts

12:43

from a podcast I

12:45

recorded with Dan in

12:47

2016. It's episode 192, if

12:50

you want to listen to

12:52

the whole thing. And it's

12:55

original. It's in the

12:57

archives. And yeah,

12:59

that's it. I hope you

13:01

enjoy this episode.

13:03

Thank you for listening

13:05

to the podcast. Thank

13:08

you for being part

13:11

of my community.

13:13

God knows we need it

13:15

now more than ever. Thanks

13:18

for listening. Bye.

13:36

Well, I started

13:39

out. Down a

13:41

dirty road. Started

13:44

out. All alone.

13:47

And the sun

13:49

went down. As

13:52

the sun went

13:54

down. As across

13:57

the... And

14:01

the town lit

14:03

up. The world

14:05

got still. What

16:01

goes up? Must

16:03

come down. It

17:18

was 66, what was I, 40

17:20

to 18, I know, it was

17:23

like 28? 24. I think.

17:25

Yeah, because I was just

17:27

married a couple years,

17:30

yeah, 24. 24, and you

17:32

were in upstate New

17:34

York then? Yeah, yeah,

17:36

yeah. And you had

17:38

always wanted to fly?

17:40

Was that the... Or was

17:43

that just an extension of your

17:45

fascination with cars and motors? No,

17:47

I always wanted to fly. Had

17:49

always, as a kid, I used

17:51

to, you know, wear a cape

17:53

and jump off walls and I

17:55

would dream about flying and, you

17:57

know, it's just always a fixation

17:59

to fly. Every time I saw a

18:01

plane I would think about how exciting

18:04

it would be. Right. And you were

18:06

in the service, right? I was. I went

18:08

in the Navy to be a pilot,

18:10

but my eyes were not good enough.

18:13

So I ended up being in the

18:15

Army in the medical corps. And when

18:17

did you, you got drafted or you

18:20

joined? I actually joined. I

18:22

was going to be drafted even

18:24

though I was married. So I

18:27

joined and... I never had to

18:29

leave the country though. I was

18:31

set to go to Vietnam and

18:34

we ended up being sent to

18:36

Fort Evans, Massachusetts instead. And my

18:38

MOS, which is military operational

18:41

specialty or something like

18:43

that, was a field

18:45

medical equipment specialist. And

18:48

when we got to Fort Evans,

18:50

which was a field hospital, they

18:52

had no such MOS need. So

18:55

they put me in the newborn

18:57

nursery. So I actually helped deliver

18:59

babies and, you know, after they

19:02

were born, put drops in their

19:04

eyes and take blood and everything

19:07

like that. And that was what

19:09

I did in the medical corps

19:11

at Fort De Evans, just delivered

19:14

babies. You go to the military,

19:16

there's a war raging, you

19:18

know, most guys are being

19:20

sent off into a fucking

19:22

meat grinder where they're facing

19:24

death and you end up

19:27

delivering babies. Yes. That's about

19:29

the best luck you could

19:31

possibly have, I would say. What's

19:33

it like to deliver a baby?

19:35

It's really interesting. It is really,

19:37

you know, I don't consider... You

19:40

had doctors there, right? Oh yeah,

19:42

we had doctors. But yeah, these

19:44

are all young guys and young

19:46

girls that are nurses and everyone's

19:48

very easy about it and if

19:50

it was a Normal birth and

19:52

and they had some what they

19:54

call explosive deliveries where They the

19:56

mother would start to push and

19:58

all of a sudden the baby

20:00

would just fly right out and

20:02

actually almost like catching a football.

20:04

Really? Yeah, the baby would come

20:06

out, the only thing holding it

20:08

back was the umbilical cord and

20:10

you had to catch a slimy

20:12

slippery little baby. So what was

20:14

your role? You got doctors, nurses,

20:17

and you, who the hell are

20:19

you? You're some like army guy,

20:21

what are you doing in the

20:23

room? Well I was a corpsman

20:25

which you know is a nebulous

20:27

title and that you'd just they'd

20:29

you know you'd suit up and go

20:31

and go in the room. Put on

20:34

your your leather catcher's mitt or what?

20:36

And the doctors you know they'd say

20:38

you want to catch this one you

20:40

want to you want to you know

20:42

if it was difficult they'd clear the

20:45

room right you know if it was

20:47

like there's any problem with the baby

20:49

not getting oxygen or if they had

20:51

to go back and do a C

20:54

section or something then it became a

20:56

really serious operating theater But a normal

20:58

delivery, everyone was just happy

21:00

and laughing and clapping and

21:03

it was really an enjoyable

21:05

thing. And who were the women?

21:07

They were mostly dependents of

21:09

servicemen. Oh, okay. Right. And

21:11

the babies, once they're out

21:13

and the cord was cut,

21:15

we would take the baby

21:18

and scrub them down completely,

21:20

head to toe with Pfizax.

21:22

Scrub them. Scrub them. Scrub

21:24

them. Yeah, a little soft

21:26

brush you'd scrub them because

21:28

they're all slimy. I mean, they're

21:31

all slippery, slimy little things. You'd

21:33

scrub them down and you put

21:35

drops in their eyes because it

21:37

was to keep them from getting

21:39

some eye infection. It was common.

21:41

And then we would put little

21:44

triangular razor blades in their heels

21:46

because that was the only place

21:48

they had enough blood pressure that

21:50

you could get blood to be

21:52

tested. You'd just pour a little

21:54

baby and stick this little triangular

21:57

razor blade in its heel and

21:59

then you'd... put the heel on

22:01

a blotter until the circle on

22:03

the blotter filled up with their

22:05

blood. That was enough for them

22:07

to test. And then you would

22:09

just wrap them in something and

22:11

take them back to their mother.

22:13

And in the military hospitals, the

22:15

baby always stayed with the mother.

22:17

There was no nursery. It was

22:19

just like a crib right beside

22:21

the mother. So that was good. So for

22:23

how many babies do you think you

22:26

process this way? Probably

22:29

about 18-20 babies. So for

22:31

20 people you were the

22:33

first human being really in

22:35

their life. Yeah, you were the

22:37

first human contact. I was the

22:39

one stick in their needle. That

22:42

was that big bastard stick of

22:44

needles in their heels. Yeah, probably

22:46

all traumatized little babies running around.

22:49

Yeah, on one foot. Hop it

22:51

around. Yeah, wow, that's a see

22:53

there you go. I didn't know

22:55

that about you. I knew you

22:58

were in the service, but I

23:00

had no idea you were traumatizing babies

23:02

and the delightful part of it

23:04

I even had to teach some

23:06

mothers how to breastfeed Because they

23:08

would take their baby and just

23:10

slam its poor little head against

23:12

their boob and of course the

23:14

babies, you know trying to breathe

23:16

let alone suck on a nipple

23:18

and suck on a nipple and

23:20

In one case I went and

23:22

I told a nurse, I said,

23:24

you know, a woman's crying because

23:26

the baby won't feed. She said, well,

23:29

tell her how to do it right. I

23:31

said, I don't know how to do it

23:33

right. I forget that whole lot. It was

23:35

years ago. A long time ago. And she

23:37

said, just tell her to put the baby's

23:39

head close to the nipple and just relax

23:42

and the baby will do the rest. So

23:44

I went back to the room and I

23:46

said just get that little nipple right out

23:48

here and You know put your baby's head

23:50

by and just relax and you know stroke

23:52

your baby's head and just Let him stay

23:55

there and sure enough within a few minutes,

23:57

you know, he kind of moved here and

23:59

there and I don't know through sense

24:01

of smell, I don't know what

24:03

the attraction was, but boom, all

24:05

of a sudden he's on the

24:08

nipple and just as happy as

24:10

can be. Right. And I thought,

24:12

damn, I'm pretty smart. Right. It's

24:14

interesting, so they've got a guy

24:16

with really no medical training,

24:18

teaching women how to breastfeed

24:20

babies. Times have changed, huh?

24:22

Yeah. I mean, I don't

24:25

think you'd be anywhere near

24:27

a woman. you know delivering

24:29

babies now or you know

24:31

anyone no absolutely not it's

24:33

yeah you know I wouldn't

24:35

have the right credentials on

24:37

my my security card yeah

24:39

anywhere close to a baby

24:41

exactly yeah so okay here's

24:43

a question for you because

24:45

I another thing that you

24:47

and I share is a

24:49

is a sort of unapologetic

24:51

love of women and sensuality

24:54

and all that and Did

24:56

that experience of seeing the

24:58

bloody, gloppy realities of birth

25:01

affect your sex life at

25:03

all? No, not a lot.

25:06

It's just, you don't even

25:08

think of it in the

25:10

same context or area. Just,

25:12

that was a, it was

25:14

interesting. I wouldn't say beautiful

25:17

because it was, you know,

25:19

kind of bloody and, and,

25:21

um... But it was interesting.

25:24

I don't believe in miracles,

25:26

but it was something that

25:29

is amazing to see. Right.

25:31

But not had no effect

25:33

on my sex life. The

25:36

girls, you know, in that

25:38

condition certainly aren't sexual

25:40

objects at all. Right.

25:42

Yeah, once back in

25:44

their room when they

25:46

have their boobies out,

25:48

they're looking pretty sexy.

25:50

Yeah. See, that's why

25:52

you wouldn't be allowed

25:54

near them anymore. Right,

25:56

exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You

25:58

mentioned you don't... believe

26:00

in miracles. You were

26:02

raised in a Catholic,

26:04

a strictly Catholic family.

26:06

Right, right. And when

26:09

did that stop working

26:11

for you? It never really worked.

26:13

You know, I was always,

26:15

I just couldn't grasp

26:17

the concept of having

26:19

to leave everything on

26:22

faith. Right. I always felt

26:24

if there was something to

26:26

this religion thing. There should

26:29

be some proof somewhere. You

26:31

know, someone dropped the ball

26:33

and proof slipped out. But

26:35

there's none. And I just

26:37

always thought, this is just,

26:39

it's just not right. So

26:41

even when you're, you know,

26:43

five, ten, twelve, you know,

26:45

before critical thinking really kicks

26:48

in, you weren't, you weren't

26:50

buying it, you weren't into

26:52

the... You know, the frankincense

26:54

and the murr and the

26:56

outfits and all that shit?

26:58

When they first started telling

27:00

me about hell and how

27:02

incredibly easy it was to commit

27:04

a sin. I just, I was

27:06

scared. I was scared. I was

27:08

scared that I was doomed to

27:11

hell because it seemed everything that

27:13

I did. Thoughts, you know, if

27:15

you had this thought, if you

27:17

didn't even have to hurt someone

27:19

or have sex. I mean, you

27:21

just had to think about it.

27:23

You were committing a sin. That

27:25

scared me until I started realizing,

27:27

you know, I really don't believe

27:29

that's the end I'm facing. And

27:31

to this day, I mean, I've

27:33

never wavered from that and,

27:36

you know, I've looked at death

27:38

pretty close these last couple years

27:40

and, you know, everyone says, well,

27:42

are you going to hedge your

27:45

bet on it? It's like, no,

27:47

I'm not. I just don't believe

27:49

that that stuff exists at all.

27:51

So essentially you came to Spain

27:54

to visit me and one of

27:56

the many things that has impressed

27:58

me about yours. the years. You

28:00

came to Spain to visit and

28:03

it was like, did you get

28:05

a phone call when you were

28:07

in Spain with the diagnosis or

28:09

did you get it right before

28:11

you came or something? I got

28:13

it before I came that I

28:15

had prostate cancer. Right. And they said,

28:18

you know, you got a, it's strong

28:20

enough cancer. that you have to have,

28:22

you have to do something, need some

28:25

sort of treatment. That was like days

28:27

before you. Days, but you know I

28:29

already had the tickets. Right. And my

28:31

beautiful girlfriend from Germany was going to

28:34

join me there and there was just

28:36

no way I was going to miss

28:38

my trip. Yeah and then you and I

28:41

drove around for I don't know about

28:43

a week or something up in the

28:45

Pyrenees and along the coast and you

28:47

never, I don't remember you even mentioning

28:49

it once unless I brought it up. No,

28:52

it's just, it's not something that

28:54

scares me. I mean, it's,

28:57

you know, you hear cancer

28:59

and people get so scared

29:01

and they feel their life

29:03

has been taken from them,

29:05

but my whole thought was

29:07

how I was going to

29:09

deal with it. The doctors

29:11

in town wanted to use

29:13

the facilities in town that

29:15

they owned or were responsible

29:17

for. They wanted to do

29:19

a da Vinci operation or

29:21

they wanted to do standard

29:23

radiation. But I researched

29:25

it online and found

29:27

out that there was

29:30

a better method called

29:32

proton therapy, which is

29:34

a type of radiation

29:36

that is using radioactive

29:38

matter rather than radioactive energy.

29:40

And because it's matter, it

29:43

can be controlled, it can

29:45

be stopped and started, and

29:47

it's much more precise than energy,

29:50

which when it enters your body,

29:52

it's going to leave at some

29:54

point. So I was able to

29:56

research that and find a facility

29:59

in Jacksonville. and be treated

30:01

with the proton therapy

30:03

and had a very successful

30:05

outcome. The prostate cancer was

30:07

removed. I've had no ill

30:09

side effects. You know, I

30:11

don't have to wear depends

30:14

or I don't have ure

30:16

area issues. So you wear

30:18

the depends just because you

30:20

like them? Just because I

30:22

like the way they look

30:24

good on you. The feel

30:27

of that plastic rubbing up

30:29

and down your leg. Well

30:31

I've got some butt paste

30:33

if you need it.

30:35

Sorry, inside joke there.

30:37

Okay and actually going

30:40

back before, so you

30:42

had the motorcycle accident

30:44

when? 2008. 2008, so

30:46

2008 was a rough year

30:48

for you. 2008 was

30:51

the year that everything started

30:53

to, I had all these

30:55

medical issues, I had the

30:57

motorcycle accident, I had the

30:59

prostate cancer, I had the

31:01

open heart surgery, you know,

31:03

I mean, 2008, 2009, 2010,

31:05

it just kept one thing

31:07

after another. And when was

31:10

the whole financial crash here

31:12

in Florida? Yeah, about

31:14

the same time. About the same

31:16

time, right? About the same time.

31:18

Because you had like five apartments

31:20

and then... Yeah, I lost them

31:23

all. Lost them all. You were

31:25

preparing for retirement, you know, a

31:27

lot of the money you made...

31:29

That was my nest egg. Yeah.

31:31

It was all set up and

31:34

like the shit hit the fan.

31:36

Oh yeah, yeah. Hit hard. Yeah. And

31:38

yeah. And yeah, I didn't... In

31:40

normal times, if that was 30

31:42

years ago, I would have said,

31:45

fine, okay, you know, get started

31:47

again. But just the timing of

31:49

it and all these medical issues

31:51

and kind of the lack of

31:54

youthful energy, I just thought, geez,

31:56

I can't do this again. Yeah.

31:58

And the motor side. accident you

32:00

were was you were making a

32:02

turn and the non-coming car didn't

32:05

see you no I was going

32:07

straight I was on a he

32:09

turned straight through road he made

32:11

an illegal left turn at an

32:13

intersection and just was right in

32:15

front of me I just bent his

32:17

car right in half and I flew

32:19

over the car and you were on

32:21

a Harley in a Harley yeah you flew

32:23

over the car and you remember

32:26

it No, no, the whole memory

32:28

of the accident was

32:30

blanked from about 20 minutes

32:32

before. I remember getting on

32:34

the bike, I was on my

32:37

way to Home Depot, and my

32:39

last memory was looking up saying,

32:41

oh, it's going to be a

32:43

really nice day. It was

32:45

a great day to die.

32:48

And the next thing I

32:50

knew there was this guy

32:52

with big earmus on, bending

32:54

and over shouting at me,

32:56

asked me if I knew

32:59

my name and I'm in

33:01

this stretcher inside a helicopter

33:03

and I didn't know where

33:05

I was or what was

33:08

going on. But I was

33:10

mad at him for yelling

33:12

at me because I said,

33:14

of course I know my name.

33:16

What the hell are you doing here

33:19

anyway? And then the surroundings just became

33:21

clear to me. It's like, my

33:23

God, I'm in a helicopter with

33:25

this medical guy. And then I

33:27

realized, you know, I had road

33:29

rash, terrible road rash from the

33:31

accident. And I was trying to

33:33

feel all my limbs and everything

33:35

to see how I was. So

33:38

you knew you'd been in an

33:40

accident at that point. Well, then

33:42

he told me because well I

33:44

First he said I was in

33:46

an accident and I said no,

33:49

I'm home You know, I just

33:51

I couldn't grasp that I had

33:53

been in an accident and and

33:55

didn't Participate in my mind

33:57

So it was hard to

33:59

to grasp, but how could

34:01

that happen? And I don't

34:03

know anything about it. Right.

34:05

But to this day, I

34:08

have absolutely no conscious memory

34:10

of that accident at all.

34:12

Yeah. And so the effects

34:14

were that you lost for

34:16

a while, pretty much all

34:18

use of your right arm.

34:21

Is that right? Yeah. They

34:23

called a bracial plexus injury

34:26

where I had... pulled and

34:28

broken bracial plexus nerves coming

34:30

out of my spine to

34:33

my right extremities.

34:36

But the arm was

34:38

the one affected the

34:40

most. I just had

34:42

no movement at all.

34:45

Yeah, no brain damage

34:47

or anything. People think

34:49

I had brain damage

34:51

to be riding hardly

34:53

without a helmet and

34:55

in shorts and a t-shirt. But

34:58

no, no, no, no brain damage,

35:00

no cranial damage. I had a

35:02

little road rash and they had

35:04

to sew my ear back on,

35:07

but other than that it was

35:09

pretty minimal damage to the head.

35:11

Yeah. Yeah, it's funny people say,

35:14

wow, you were so lucky. I

35:16

was lucky the day before when

35:18

nothing happened. That's the day I

35:21

was lucky. Yeah, it's funny how

35:23

we attribute look. Yeah,

35:25

I have a dog, one

35:27

leg, broken tail, one eye.

35:29

His name is lucky. Because

35:32

he's still alive. Yeah, exactly.

35:34

Yeah, okay. So, and then

35:36

you've got this other thing

35:38

now. This mysterious childhood illness

35:40

that only children have. It's

35:42

called ganglio neuroblastoma

35:44

and it's normally

35:46

a cancer found

35:48

in 18 month

35:50

old children. It's

35:52

the oldest person

35:55

that they know that has ever

35:57

had it was 21 years

35:59

old. You're a medical

36:01

anomaly. I'm the oldest

36:04

living person to ever

36:06

have had this cancer.

36:08

And I think other

36:10

than infants, like only

36:12

42 people in the

36:14

world have had it.

36:16

So the genetic researchers

36:19

at Sloan Kettering are

36:21

trying to find out.

36:23

where it came from

36:25

or why I would

36:27

have it, whether it

36:29

was something that was

36:32

dormant in my body

36:34

for years, or whether

36:36

I did something that

36:38

made it become active,

36:41

triggered or something. But

36:43

fortunately, I have a

36:45

genetic, what the hell

36:47

is it? It's an

36:50

ALK gene that is...

36:52

abnormal. It's mutated. And

36:54

because of that, it

36:56

acts like it's a

36:59

lung cancer cell. And

37:01

they've developed this treatment

37:03

for lung cancer. That's

37:05

very effective because it's

37:08

specific to that gene.

37:10

And so it doesn't

37:12

attack the rest of

37:14

your body. It just

37:17

attacks that particular gene

37:19

and inhibits it from

37:21

getting nourishment. So they

37:23

were able to get

37:26

that medicine for me,

37:28

what they call off

37:30

label, where it's clinical

37:32

study that they had

37:34

me involved in. And

37:36

I've been taking the

37:38

medicine, and that was

37:40

in 2013, so I'm

37:42

still here. So I'm

37:44

surviving the medicine and

37:47

the cancer. Tell you

37:49

what to expect or

37:51

is it all just

37:53

purely we'll see what

37:55

happens since it's such

37:57

a rare case kind

37:59

of and see what happens.

38:01

That's their feeling or what

38:04

they say. I've learned more

38:06

by going online and reading

38:09

about the medicines I'm taking,

38:11

reading about the cancer itself,

38:13

and I think I've learned

38:16

much more that way than

38:18

listening to the doctors. I

38:21

know the medicine loses its

38:23

effectiveness after a period of

38:25

time. That cancer genes... are

38:28

very smart. If they

38:30

aren't getting nourishment because

38:32

of something they can

38:34

develop a way around

38:36

that and they develop so

38:38

fast you know they evolve

38:41

quickly. So that medicine becomes

38:43

ineffective after a period of

38:45

time and I couldn't really...

38:47

Find out what period of

38:49

time that was it depends

38:51

so much on the person

38:53

taking it etc. Right and

38:55

also in your case your

38:57

cells aren't dividing anywhere near

38:59

as quickly as an 18

39:01

month old babies are. No.

39:03

So the whole timeline you

39:05

know to your benefit is slowed

39:07

down a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So we got

39:09

off into all this because you said you

39:12

don't believe in miracles. So what

39:14

what do you believe in? What do

39:16

you think's going on here? Life-wise?

39:19

Life-wise? Well, I mean, I mean,

39:22

you know, the whole question of miracles

39:24

is so much about how we frame

39:26

it, right? Because it is

39:28

kind of miraculous that this

39:30

planet exists, that there's one

39:33

planet we know of, you know,

39:35

as far as we can see,

39:37

as far as we can detect,

39:39

which is hundreds of thousands of

39:41

light years at this point. There's

39:43

one planet that has water that's,

39:45

you know, the right temperature and

39:47

the right distance from its sun

39:49

and all that. And there are

39:51

these conscious beings here looking around

39:53

at shit and, you know, talking

39:55

to each other and interacting in

39:57

all these ways. To me, life

39:59

itself... is just fucking miraculous. Like

40:02

I remember reading something that

40:04

said, I think it was

40:06

Einstein, who said, you can

40:08

look at life in one

40:10

of two ways, either nothing

40:12

is miraculous or everything is.

40:14

And I sort of vacillate between

40:16

the two depending on, you

40:18

know, how conscious I am

40:20

in a moment. But I

40:23

wasn't raised in the sort

40:25

of religious, I feel like

40:27

people who were raised in

40:29

a religious context. either buy

40:31

it or reject it and

40:33

and there's a lot of

40:36

baby in bathwater going on

40:38

there you know where yeah you're

40:40

right some people will

40:43

reject parts of the

40:45

religion, especially the parts dealing

40:47

with the valtry, masturbation, masturbation.

40:50

It's the first to go.

40:52

Give up that early, you

40:55

know, let's face reality. But

40:57

then you can, I rejected,

41:00

at this point, I've simply

41:02

rejected the whole concept of

41:05

a religion, a supreme being,

41:07

another life. I believe there's

41:10

a finality to death, when

41:12

you die. The only thing

41:14

that probably continues forever is

41:17

the vibrations that you've created

41:19

in your life. Because as

41:21

you know, vibrations continue on

41:23

in a diminished capacity pretty

41:25

much forever. Really? They don't

41:27

dissipate? Yeah, they do, but

41:29

they never go away. Very

41:31

slowly. Smaller and smaller. Conservation

41:34

of energy, I guess. Smaller,

41:36

but... Spread out, just like

41:38

a leak of boat. Right,

41:40

right, right, yeah. So I

41:42

think that's the only

41:44

thing that survives

41:47

our march through Earth.

41:49

And I think

41:51

about the possibilities

41:53

of scale. Are we,

41:56

Horton, here's a who

41:58

scale? Are we... you

42:00

know, massive creatures on a massive

42:02

planet in a very small area?

42:05

Or are we, you know, just

42:07

another atom in a larger structure?

42:10

And, you know, what is our

42:12

time frame here? Is it really

42:14

an incredible length of time or

42:17

is this all occurring in a

42:19

split second? Who knows if the

42:21

sun is just someone struck a

42:24

match and that the sun is

42:26

just the head of the match?

42:29

Right and when they like the

42:31

cigarette and put it out we're

42:33

doomed. There's your lung cancer. Yeah,

42:36

yeah. So another big moment in

42:38

your life if I know correctly

42:40

because you know a lot of

42:43

your life I know secondhand either

42:45

because I've heard stories or whatever

42:47

or because I was traveling when

42:50

things happened to you But a

42:52

friend of yours, a good friend

42:55

of yours, died in a plane

42:57

explosion? Yeah, Mike, Mike Stevens, Mike

42:59

Stevenson. He was flying to Australia

43:02

to deliver a plane. And I

43:04

was scheduled to go with him,

43:06

and business kept me from doing

43:09

that. But he and another friend

43:11

of mine... took the plane on

43:14

their way to California to have

43:16

big tanks put in it so

43:18

they could go across the ocean.

43:21

Was it a jet? No, it

43:23

was a turbo prop. But over

43:25

Ohio for an unexplained reason the

43:28

plane came apart in the air.

43:30

It just started to disintegrate the

43:32

tail first and then of course

43:35

once the tail goes you have

43:37

absolutely no control so it went

43:40

into a spiral until the wings

43:42

popped off and then hit the

43:44

ground. And that's not a thing

43:47

where they had parachutes in the

43:49

plane or anything. No, you can't.

43:51

Parachute in a plane unless it's

43:54

a plane that has ejectable doors

43:56

and an open cockpit. You can't

43:59

get out, right? I know. Yeah.

44:01

So, um, now they just went

44:03

down with a plane and, uh,

44:06

Mike and Jay just ceased to

44:08

exist at that point. Or became

44:10

part of the earth, I'm not

44:13

sure what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah.

44:15

So, uh, and so when was

44:17

that? Oh, God. Uh, from the

44:20

80s at some point, wasn't it?

44:22

Yeah, it was 30 years ago

44:25

probably. 30 years ago. And did

44:27

that strike you? I mean, was

44:29

that a holy shit kind of

44:32

moment for you? Aside from losing

44:34

your buddies? Yeah, I mean, Mike

44:36

was my best friend. We talked

44:39

every day. We went over the

44:41

days we had with each other

44:44

almost every day. You know, it

44:46

was just a real close friendship.

44:48

And of course, we both flew.

44:51

We always went on flying adventures

44:53

together, dive trips. You know cross-country

44:55

trips all night. Just we had

44:58

a really great time flying. Was

45:00

he the guy you went to

45:02

Alaska with a few times? No

45:05

Alaska was the guy that taught

45:07

me to fly I went to

45:10

Alaska with him and then the

45:12

last two trips I went on

45:14

the company jet at the time

45:17

we were doing the airplane business

45:19

right and we flew up on

45:21

a company jet. That's nice. But

45:24

uh, yeah, Mikey was a real

45:26

good pilot, liked to fly everything

45:29

from sea planes to jets. He

45:31

had a Falcon Ten, which was

45:33

one of the fastest personal jets

45:36

available. And then we both owned

45:38

sea planes, which we liked to

45:40

fly. But it never deterred me

45:43

from flying. Actually, when I heard

45:45

about it, I was in a

45:47

restaurant at an airport. And when

45:50

I left the restaurant, I jumped

45:52

in a plane. which happened to

45:55

belong to Mike. It was a

45:57

plane that was delivering for him.

45:59

And I flew that back to

46:02

my... home airport just to be

46:04

there to find out more news

46:06

as it came in, but it

46:09

never occurred to me not to

46:11

fly the plane. It's just total

46:14

disconnect between that accident and what

46:16

might happen to me. How long

46:18

was that flight back to your

46:21

home airport? 20 minutes. You were

46:23

alone? Yeah. Yeah. That must have

46:25

been an interesting time. It was

46:28

because I kept thinking of what

46:30

would somehow Could be the wrong

46:32

plane? Is there a possibility? You

46:35

know could could they have served?

46:37

Just all everything goes through your

46:40

mind But yet in the back

46:42

I just remember thinking of all

46:44

these things and then I thought

46:47

why am I thinking of these

46:49

things? I know the answer to

46:51

all of them You know, and

46:54

I guess it's just hoping or

46:56

wishing or something like

46:59

that because I just I

47:01

knew that he was dead

47:03

yeah and but again my

47:06

thought was flying the plane

47:08

and getting back home so

47:11

I could talk to his

47:13

mother to to Jay's wife

47:16

to everyone that was going

47:18

to be involved and they

47:21

were all back in Annapolis.

47:24

Yeah, sad. I still miss him

47:26

and He was a good life

47:28

friend. Yeah He said something that

47:30

surprised me the other day You

47:33

want to get that? That's my

47:35

uncle's phone It's not a submarine.

47:37

That's it. You expect to see

47:39

your parents go plop plop. Ready

47:42

the death charges. And then par.

47:44

with torpedo. But you said to

47:46

me something that surprised me the

47:48

other day, you said you've had

47:51

very few male friends in your

47:53

life. That surprised me because you

47:55

seem to me to be one

47:58

of the most like man's man

48:00

guys I know. You know like

48:02

you know how to hang out

48:04

with guys. You know how to

48:07

deal with guys. You talk their

48:09

language. I always feel like I

48:11

often feel like an imposter. around

48:13

a lot of guys. You know,

48:16

because I'm not the athlete. I'm

48:18

not the, I can't fix the

48:20

car. I, you know, I don't,

48:22

I don't do a lot of

48:25

macho shit. You know, I'll pull

48:27

out my, my travel or my

48:29

porn award. Those are my... Yeah.

48:31

Those are what I got. But

48:34

you know, like, guys don't really,

48:36

you know, or like I've been

48:38

successful with women. I guess those

48:40

are my... my credentials for impressing

48:43

guys, right? But you've always struck

48:45

me as a guy who just

48:47

like impresses guys just by being

48:49

who you are. And so when

48:52

you said you haven't had a

48:54

lot of men, male friends, that

48:56

surprised me because I don't think

48:58

you have it easy with dudes.

49:01

But think about it, maybe impressing

49:03

men, but what do I do

49:05

when a guy says, you know,

49:07

what was the score last night?

49:10

And I'm thinking, I don't even

49:12

know what last night was. Or

49:14

what about them Mets. And I

49:16

don't know who the Mets are,

49:19

and I don't give a damn.

49:21

Or who Mesoroski or some of

49:23

the newer people are, the guy

49:25

with the deflate gate. You know,

49:28

I just don't know anything about

49:30

that. And most guys do. So

49:32

you think it's sports. You just

49:35

don't have that sports. The other

49:37

part of sports that I don't

49:39

have is a lot of. competitiveness.

49:41

I'm not someone that wants to

49:44

win or to beat someone or

49:46

to be better at that. So

49:48

I don't have that which you

49:50

find in a lot of guys.

49:53

And the other thing that will

49:55

turn me off with a guy

49:57

immediately when I talk to, if

49:59

they don't have respect for women,

50:02

if they, you know, use the

50:04

slang terms derogatoryly, I mean if

50:06

you use them in a fun

50:08

way, you know, which we all

50:11

do, but if you're being derogatory

50:13

or if you have that inner

50:15

dislike or hate for women, I

50:17

don't want to be around a

50:20

guy like that. Right. And the

50:22

other thing, I feel like an

50:24

imposter when I'm at a party.

50:26

And someone comes up and says,

50:29

oh, you know, where are you

50:31

born? Pittsburgh. Oh, you must be

50:33

a Steeler fan. And I'm not.

50:35

I'm not a Steeler fan. And

50:38

I hate to say, no, I'm

50:40

not. Well, who do you follow?

50:42

And I don't. Right. So like

50:44

you, I don't enter the male

50:47

world on the footing that the

50:49

vast majority of men have. Right.

50:51

Very few pilots in the world.

50:53

in my age bracket, you know,

50:56

even less. So there aren't a

50:58

lot of guys that are... I

51:00

can be impressed by the football

51:02

lover because I'm a pilot, but

51:05

I can't talk about piloting with

51:07

them. Right. But if I find

51:09

another pilot, we have a lot

51:12

in common. Diving, skiing, things like

51:14

that. But again, that's a small

51:16

fraction of the menu come in

51:18

contact with. So I'm probably in

51:21

the same situation that you see

51:23

yourself in. And we have our

51:25

own skills that are great, you

51:27

know, our life-altering skills that you

51:30

and I have, but they aren't

51:32

mainstream. Yeah, and in some cases

51:34

they're, they don't lend themselves to

51:36

easy cocktail conversation. Exactly, they don't.

51:39

But with women, flying impresses women,

51:41

diving. presses women skiing knowing about

51:43

those things being able to fix

51:45

an iron lack of interest in

51:48

sports and lack of interest in

51:50

sports exactly you know they say

51:52

God my husband spends every Sunday

51:54

afternoon yeah yeah that's true I

51:57

remember reading it people listen to

51:59

this podcast I've heard me talk

52:01

about this before but it's one

52:03

of my favorite quotes it was

52:06

an interview with some some great

52:08

coach I don't remember if it

52:10

was football or what sport it

52:12

was but They said to him,

52:15

what's the key to what's the

52:17

secret to being such a great

52:19

coach? And he said, well, you

52:21

have to be smart enough to

52:24

really understand the game But not

52:26

smart enough to understand how little

52:28

it all matters Yeah, that's very

52:30

true. Yeah, the man you can

52:33

just apply that to pretty much

52:35

anything in life. You know, you

52:37

just you just want to be

52:39

smart enough to figure it out,

52:42

but don't get smarter than that

52:44

or then you get into all

52:46

sorts of trouble Yeah, I begin

52:49

to think it's the all-important thing.

52:51

So many people do in their

52:53

craft or in their world. They

52:55

put an importance on it that

52:58

isn't really there. You know, it

53:00

is for them, but not for

53:02

the world. Well, and that gets

53:04

back into the, you know, how

53:07

you think creates your world, right?

53:09

Yeah. If you're competitive, the world

53:11

looks like a jungle. It's a

53:13

really competitive place, but... Well, and

53:16

here's another thing I think you

53:18

and I have in common is

53:20

this aversion to competitiveness And yet

53:22

I think in both cases people

53:25

could look at us and say

53:27

yeah, it's easy for you to

53:29

say because you win normally You

53:31

know like you're not competitive about

53:34

women. Let's say no, but you've

53:36

probably more successful with women than

53:38

any guy you know. Yeah, and

53:40

and it's hard to teach that

53:43

because People who are trying to

53:45

learn how to be with women

53:47

are already in a mine that

53:49

makes it impossible for them to

53:52

be relaxed. And the key is

53:54

being relaxed. Yeah. I know this

53:56

guy named Neil Strauss who wrote

53:58

a very famous book called The

54:01

Game, which is all about sort

54:03

of a science of how to

54:05

pick up women. There are all

54:07

these research and all these techniques

54:10

that you can use. And the

54:12

first time I was hanging out

54:14

with him, we were talking about

54:16

this and he said, I'll bet

54:19

you had sex before you were

54:21

15. Then you. I said, yeah,

54:23

actually I did. How did you

54:26

know that? He said, well, you

54:28

can always tell. Guys who had

54:30

sex before they were 15 are

54:32

relaxed around women. They're not intimidated,

54:35

they're not freaked out, and so

54:37

they continue to be successful with

54:39

women their whole lives. Guys who

54:41

don't have sex until their 20s

54:44

are freaked out, and they need

54:46

to learn techniques, you know, because

54:48

they can't do it naturally. It's

54:50

just too stressful. Which is really

54:53

fucked up. You know you and

54:55

I were talking about this at

54:57

lunch today how we both had

54:59

Experiences with older girls when we

55:02

were in our early teens that

55:04

today would be considered criminal Yeah,

55:06

you know and yet I feel

55:08

like that's a big part of

55:11

the reason that I'm I am

55:13

relaxed around women They call them

55:15

victims back then. They called me

55:17

a lucky bastard. Exactly. I mean,

55:20

what kind of societies? You know,

55:22

I mean, the boys are lining

55:24

up to be victims. Yeah. I

55:26

don't really understand it. Yeah. Yeah,

55:29

I was going somewhere with all

55:31

that. I don't know where the

55:33

hell it was though. Oh, money.

55:35

What your relationship with money? You've

55:38

never really been motivated by it.

55:40

I mean, you've had it. Yeah,

55:42

I had. It's coming done. It's

55:44

a hell lot better having it

55:47

than what, I'll tell you. I've

55:49

been rich. I've been poor. I've

55:51

rich better. But not for the

55:53

sake of money. Right. I don't

55:56

get any thrill out of earning

55:58

them. but I get a thrill

56:00

out of the time it gives

56:02

me to do something else. Right.

56:05

You know, the time or the

56:07

ability to own an airplane. I

56:09

mean, my God, I've owned an

56:12

airplane most of my adult life

56:14

because of money and because of

56:16

the ability to do it. Right.

56:18

I've been able to... You never

56:21

made a living from an airplane

56:23

though, did you? No. No. I

56:25

made money on them because of

56:27

buying and selling, but... Right. Never

56:30

made a living. Never flew for

56:32

profit. No. Other than the arms

56:34

in drug smuggling, you said we

56:36

shouldn't talk about. Yeah, let's keep

56:39

that quiet. No, I missed out

56:41

on the drug smuggling. I have

56:43

to say, honestly, if I would

56:45

have, if it would have been

56:48

that time and I would have

56:50

been here in Florida, I probably

56:52

would have been involved in drug

56:54

smuggling because I think it was

56:57

a glorious time. Yeah. Yeah, for

56:59

anyone who may be listening to

57:01

this. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I told

57:03

you I recently interviewed a guy

57:06

who was in a big way.

57:08

He had a fleet of DC

57:10

threes, I think. Yeah, he was,

57:12

yeah. Yeah, interesting, interesting times. Okay,

57:15

so money wasn't your motivation. So,

57:17

so your buddy, Mikey, Mikey. disappeared

57:20

and how did that change

57:22

the way you looked at

57:24

your life? How did that,

57:26

I mean, did that lead

57:28

to any big decisions or

57:30

reconsiderations? It made it easier

57:32

for me to leave Maryland

57:34

I guess, you know, because

57:37

he was part of my

57:39

life and part of Maryland

57:41

and with him gone it

57:43

was one less tie to

57:45

a specific place. It

57:47

was after that, after Laura, my

57:49

daughter had graduated from college and

57:52

was working, that my wife and

57:54

I split up and I just

57:56

jumped on my plane and flew

57:58

to Florida. People who listen to

58:01

this podcast have heard of you

58:03

because I talked about how you

58:05

started that whole naked sex at

58:08

dawn reader. Oh yeah, okay. Yeah.

58:10

So maybe I'll post that photo,

58:12

the original photo of you and

58:15

your two friends, if that's okay.

58:17

I mean it's already up. It's

58:19

already up. Or post that YouTube,

58:21

that's a funny video. Yeah. But,

58:24

so part of, you know, you

58:26

mentioned getting divorced and, and, you

58:28

know, one of the funny things

58:31

about doing a podcast is, you

58:33

know, or writing, you know, being

58:35

a semi-public figure, as I've become

58:38

recently, is my impulses to just

58:40

tell it like it is, you

58:42

know, I'm very unapolog. But then

58:44

you're talking about other people's lives

58:47

too and they never agreed to

58:49

have their, you know, privacy invaded.

58:51

So I don't want to ask

58:54

you any question that would, you

58:56

know, invade anyone else's privacy. But

58:58

it was part of, my feeling

59:01

was that when you came to

59:03

Florida, it was, you were more,

59:05

how can I say? Like, you

59:07

weren't... misrepresenting yourself. Like you weren't,

59:10

I remember seeing you with three

59:12

or four different women and they

59:14

all knew you had different, you

59:17

know, there was no secrets. Exactly.

59:19

I was totally honest. When I

59:21

go out with a woman I

59:24

tell her, you know, I don't

59:26

want to have a relationship. I

59:28

don't want to just, you know,

59:30

confine or seeing you only and

59:33

I don't expect the same from

59:35

you. If that changes later, we'll

59:37

talk about it. But yeah, I

59:40

was very honest with all the

59:42

women I dated. Was that hard

59:44

to do initially? Did you think

59:47

that was going to like ruin

59:49

your chances to be with people?

59:51

I didn't care. I just felt...

59:53

I was so much more comfortable

59:56

just being totally honest and you

59:58

know at that age your memory

1:00:00

starts to go a little bit

1:00:03

so you don't have to remember

1:00:05

what I said as you said

1:00:07

the truth. And it's worked out

1:00:10

fantastically. I mean women are so

1:00:12

much more appreciative if you tell

1:00:14

them the truth. I had... several

1:00:16

women that said well I won't

1:00:19

go out with you then and

1:00:21

that was fine but again they

1:00:23

knew the truth and they knew

1:00:26

what they were getting into but

1:00:28

other just said you know this

1:00:30

is great you know I like

1:00:33

that relationship I like the ability

1:00:35

to be honest with each other

1:00:37

I'll see you this weekend but

1:00:39

no I'm going out somewhere with

1:00:42

somebody else you know yeah and

1:00:44

it was fine with me and

1:00:46

Naples the Demographics here, there's 12

1:00:49

women for every man in town.

1:00:51

And most of them were losers.

1:00:53

Yeah, most of those guys aren't

1:00:56

using their 12. So it was...

1:00:58

They're running around free. You can

1:01:00

afford to have some say, I'm

1:01:02

not going to date you under

1:01:05

those circumstances. Yeah. Well, I found

1:01:07

the same thing, you know, when

1:01:09

I was working on my PhD,

1:01:12

which was about why Monogamy is

1:01:14

unnatural for our species, you know,

1:01:16

that came up pretty early in

1:01:19

any conversation I was having with

1:01:21

women and Yeah, maybe maybe a

1:01:23

third of them were like, okay,

1:01:25

you know, that's too freaky for

1:01:28

me. I'm not into that but

1:01:30

what I learned was that two

1:01:32

things I learned one that there's

1:01:35

incredible value in eliminating early people

1:01:37

that aren't going to be long-term

1:01:39

compatible anyway. We waste so much

1:01:42

time trying to make it work

1:01:44

with some... one that we could

1:01:46

have seen in the first hour

1:01:48

it wasn't going to work. Trying

1:01:51

to go slowly to that point.

1:01:53

I mentioned earlier about guys don't

1:01:55

know how to pick up women

1:01:58

or how to meet women. I

1:02:00

discovered that same thing, the brutal

1:02:02

honesty, when I see a woman

1:02:05

like I went into the the

1:02:07

beach club years ago and I

1:02:09

saw this woman who I just

1:02:11

thought was incredibly attractive. Nice smile

1:02:14

just beautiful big boobs and She's

1:02:16

surrounded by guys But I just

1:02:18

walked right up and pushed the

1:02:21

guys aside excuse me excuse me

1:02:23

excuse me and went right up

1:02:25

to her and all I did

1:02:28

and this works every time you

1:02:30

put your hand out and say

1:02:32

Hi, I just wanted to introduce

1:02:34

myself. My name is Dan Carr

1:02:37

and that's it you will get

1:02:39

a response. You don't use any

1:02:41

phony line, you don't use anything,

1:02:44

I love your eyes, because that

1:02:46

will elicit some Tony response. But

1:02:48

if you introduce yourself, what it

1:02:51

gets is the name of the

1:02:53

person and a handshake. And from

1:02:55

there, you're on a firm basis

1:02:57

to expand on it. And that

1:03:00

woman, I'm a friend with her

1:03:02

today. And a week after I

1:03:04

met her, we went to Fantasy

1:03:07

Fest in Key West. And she's,

1:03:09

I was actually on a date

1:03:11

with her when I met my

1:03:14

wife Karina, because I said to

1:03:16

her then, I saw Karina sitting

1:03:18

at a table and she just

1:03:20

looked incredibly beautiful. So I said

1:03:23

to this woman, would you mind

1:03:25

if I just introduced myself to

1:03:27

this woman over there? And she

1:03:30

said, oh no, she's very beautiful.

1:03:32

So I did. But I think

1:03:34

it's that honesty and just straightforwardness.

1:03:37

that gets you the best response

1:03:39

and you know nothing phony no

1:03:41

canned lines or anything else yeah

1:03:43

that's the way I met my

1:03:46

my Colombian bride, gosh so many

1:03:48

women just by looking at it

1:03:50

and the other key thing is

1:03:53

do not look at them 20

1:03:55

times before you go up to

1:03:57

it. Right. Every time you look

1:04:00

at them they know. Right. And

1:04:02

if you are staring and looking

1:04:04

around corners and going along or

1:04:06

telling your friends and pointing at

1:04:09

them. You may as well just

1:04:11

hang it up, because that's the

1:04:13

end of it. When you see

1:04:16

them the first time, you never

1:04:18

make eye contact again until you

1:04:20

are on a B-line approaching them.

1:04:23

And then that's when you have

1:04:25

the best chance of a nice,

1:04:27

honest, productive meeting with a woman.

1:04:29

Okay, here's another thing that you

1:04:32

and I have in common. And

1:04:34

maybe you should... Let's see what's

1:04:36

your response to this is. I

1:04:39

think a lot of people, not

1:04:41

necessarily a lot of people listening

1:04:43

to this because they're cool, but

1:04:46

a lot of people would listen

1:04:48

to us and say, you're a

1:04:50

couple old creeps, you're your perverts,

1:04:52

you know, objectifying women and you

1:04:55

know, all you care about is,

1:04:57

you know, chasing women around or

1:04:59

whatever. I mean, I don't mean

1:05:02

to put words in their mouths,

1:05:04

but you know what I'm talking

1:05:06

about. A womanizer they would say.

1:05:09

You know, you've been very clear

1:05:11

that you're, you know, you've been

1:05:13

very honest and that's actually worked

1:05:15

to your advantage and so on

1:05:18

and so forth. But what do

1:05:20

you, I mean, you must get

1:05:22

leery looks from people and, you

1:05:25

know, and judgmental kind of vibe

1:05:27

from people. Obviously, you don't give

1:05:29

a shit, but what would you

1:05:32

say to somebody who has that

1:05:34

kind of, you know, who sees

1:05:36

you that way or sees me

1:05:38

that way or whomever? Well,

1:05:41

I think they're totally wrong

1:05:43

to to judge anybody that

1:05:46

way and in in my

1:05:48

situation in yours We just

1:05:50

love women. I mean, we

1:05:52

don't objectify we love them

1:05:54

We love everything about them.

1:05:56

They're good the bad the

1:05:58

ugly, you know, we just

1:06:01

love women They're pretty much

1:06:03

more group of friends than

1:06:05

men. And that's just our

1:06:07

lifestyle. Yeah, I love women

1:06:09

and I like the way

1:06:11

they look physically. I never

1:06:13

have said, oh, you know,

1:06:16

I love you for your

1:06:18

peace of mind or something.

1:06:20

It's just very natural for

1:06:22

me. And to be with

1:06:24

younger women, that's something that,

1:06:26

for some reason, I've had

1:06:28

the ability to be with

1:06:31

younger, beautiful women. And I've

1:06:33

been openly criticized in Key

1:06:35

West. There's a club called

1:06:37

Kevin, Irish Kevin's, and they

1:06:39

always have guys playing the

1:06:41

dueling pianos. And when people

1:06:43

walk in, they always make

1:06:46

comments about, you know, who

1:06:48

walks in. Well, I went

1:06:50

in there one time with

1:06:52

my then Colombian. bride and

1:06:54

girlfriend who by the way

1:06:56

is just stunningly gorgeous I

1:06:58

mean stunningly gorgeous yeah yeah

1:07:01

and much younger I mean

1:07:03

by 37 years I think

1:07:05

I mean much much younger

1:07:07

but when we walked in

1:07:09

the guys they both stopped

1:07:11

playing so it was silence

1:07:13

and and the one guy

1:07:16

got on the mic and

1:07:18

he said isn't it nice

1:07:20

when grandpa takes his granddaughters

1:07:22

out for a night in

1:07:24

Key West. So there was

1:07:26

no question about what was

1:07:29

on his mind. And now

1:07:31

everybody else in the joint,

1:07:33

you know. But other than

1:07:35

that, you know, I've, I

1:07:37

mean, I brought Oliana out

1:07:39

to California to meet the

1:07:41

family. And my daughter who

1:07:44

was 10 years. older than

1:07:46

her said she was one

1:07:48

of the nicest girls I

1:07:50

ever dated you know so

1:07:52

do you feel defensive about

1:07:54

it at all I can

1:07:56

beat I mean I'll defend

1:07:59

If anyone were to challenge

1:08:01

me on it, I would

1:08:03

certainly defend my actions, but

1:08:05

I don't feel... I mean,

1:08:07

unless somebody else brings it

1:08:09

up, I don't even think

1:08:11

about it. Right. You know,

1:08:14

my wife now is 20

1:08:16

years younger than me, and

1:08:18

unless someone mentions that, I

1:08:20

just think of hers being

1:08:22

my wife, not 20 years

1:08:24

young or older, whatever, you

1:08:26

know? Right. Have you ever

1:08:29

been jealous, possessive... That kind

1:08:31

of energy is it no

1:08:33

have you on your own

1:08:35

it or you just never

1:08:37

felt it just never really

1:08:39

felt it So even when

1:08:41

you were married because your

1:08:44

ex-wife my aunt is another

1:08:46

absolutely gorgeous woman I mean

1:08:48

she was I'm sure getting

1:08:50

hit on constantly and never

1:08:52

bothered you no no it's

1:08:54

fine I I would be

1:08:56

upset not jealous Like if

1:08:59

there was something going on

1:09:01

that I thought was going

1:09:03

on, I'd be upset that

1:09:05

that was going on, but

1:09:07

not in the sense of

1:09:09

a jealous thing that somebody

1:09:11

was trying to take my

1:09:14

wife or have sex with

1:09:16

my wife, it was more

1:09:18

of a contractual or mechanical

1:09:20

feeling that, you know, something

1:09:22

that could interfere with my

1:09:24

relationship was going on. but

1:09:26

not a sexual thing, which

1:09:29

I consider to be more

1:09:31

of the jealousy thing. Yeah.

1:09:33

Yeah, I think you and

1:09:35

I both see relationships in

1:09:37

a non-zero-sum way. In other

1:09:39

words, that someone else can

1:09:41

get something that isn't taking

1:09:44

anything away from me. Yes.

1:09:46

You know, there's not a

1:09:48

set amount of... Whatever it

1:09:50

is attraction, you know the

1:09:52

attention from attractive women or

1:09:54

you know, whatever it's like

1:09:56

I I've never felt that,

1:09:59

like, there's not enough to

1:10:01

go around kind of feeling,

1:10:03

you know. I think a

1:10:05

lot of the anxiety that

1:10:07

people feel around that, around

1:10:09

relationships, comes from the fact

1:10:11

that we live in this

1:10:14

economic world where everything is

1:10:16

zero-sum. You know, there's never

1:10:18

enough. There's not enough. You have

1:10:20

to get yours and hold on

1:10:22

to it and protect it and, you

1:10:24

know. Yeah. If you look at the

1:10:26

world as being plentiful and, you

1:10:28

know, generous, it's a very different

1:10:31

kind of thing. Like, then you're

1:10:33

not so worried about losing. What

1:10:35

are you losing? It's okay. There's

1:10:37

more, you know, there's always more.

1:10:39

Yeah, there's more and there's

1:10:42

different and there's people that

1:10:44

will provide something in your

1:10:46

life that you're not currently

1:10:48

getting. And that's true for

1:10:50

your wife, your girlfriend, whatever.

1:10:52

There's no reason to be

1:10:54

jealous if someone is Stimulating

1:10:57

her in a way you aren't or

1:10:59

in a way you are. There's still

1:11:02

no reason It isn't you're losing anything,

1:11:04

you know, right? Yeah, and in fact

1:11:06

you may be gaining something You

1:11:08

know by being the kind of guy

1:11:11

that allows her to have those things

1:11:13

and there are very few guys that

1:11:15

allow You know that can whose

1:11:17

way of looking at relationships allows

1:11:20

Free? Yeah, for the openers. Yeah,

1:11:22

another person. Yeah. Well, cool, man.

1:11:24

I mean, we can keep talking

1:11:26

for hours, but I think we've

1:11:28

covered most of the bases that

1:11:31

I had in mind. Thanks, man.

1:11:33

All right. Enjoyed it. Did you?

1:11:35

Young Chris? Not so young anymore.

1:11:37

Yeah, what was it? Let me

1:11:40

ask you that. Get this on

1:11:42

the record here. Because you've

1:11:44

known me my whole life. Yeah. Like,

1:11:46

when I was a little kid,

1:11:48

did you sort of... Like when you

1:11:50

look at me now, do you think yeah,

1:11:53

I could see that I saw that coming

1:11:55

you know, no No As a little kid

1:11:57

you didn't exhibit any of the

1:12:00

the lifestyle you have

1:12:02

now. I mean you didn't

1:12:04

exhibit that adventurous

1:12:06

spirit as a little

1:12:08

kid. Well that's because there's

1:12:11

a button in my head.

1:12:13

That could be, yeah. I

1:12:15

mean that was not my

1:12:17

finest hour. I have to

1:12:19

say. That could be, but

1:12:21

no I did. I actually

1:12:23

was. I was really pleased to

1:12:26

hear that right after college you

1:12:28

just went off into the world.

1:12:30

I thought, that takes balls. You

1:12:32

know, you can't just go off

1:12:34

into the world without having a

1:12:36

lot of self-confidence, because,

1:12:38

you know, you're by yourself going into

1:12:41

the world. I was amazed at that,

1:12:43

and I was pleased. I thought, good,

1:12:45

Chris. You know, he got out. He

1:12:48

jumped ship. He jumped ship. He jumped

1:12:50

ship. He jumped ship. He jumped

1:12:52

ship. He jumped ship. Yes,

1:14:01

sir. on

1:16:01

the wind of

1:16:03

the rain. My

1:16:06

love in hell,

1:16:08

the wave betrayed

1:16:10

in the aftermath,

1:16:12

across the clouds,

1:16:15

I see my shadow

1:16:17

fly, out of the

1:16:19

calm of my water

1:16:22

layer. I dream, I'm

1:16:24

a friend of the

1:16:26

morning light.

1:16:34

Yeah.