0:00

The focus of the integrated strategy

0:02

is truly to integrate across all

0:04

of those businesses, connecting the back

0:06

ends in a seamless fashion so

0:08

that our companies are not being

0:10

presented. It's not being presented as

0:12

three different companies. You're seeing a

0:15

one Aflac view of how you

0:17

experience a day in the life

0:19

as a group customer for Aflac. Welcome

0:23

to Technivation. I'm your host Peter Hyde.

0:25

My guest today is Sheila Anderson. Sheila

0:27

is the Chief Information Officer of Aflac,

0:29

an insurance company that provides cash to

0:31

help with expenses health insurance doesn't cover,

0:33

like deductibles and co -payments, but earns nearly

0:36

$19 billion in annual revenue. Sheila's

0:38

been in her role for a bit more

0:40

than two and a half years. Across that

0:42

time, she's helped mature the technology function people

0:44

processes and technology included. She's driven

0:46

a robust cloud strategy, and she's

0:48

also worked on a unified group strategy.

0:51

Finally, she's also driven greater innovation with

0:53

use of artificial intelligence. I look forward to

0:55

learning more about each of these topics,

0:57

among others I'm sure we'll cover through this

0:59

conversation. Sheila, welcome to Technivation. It's great

1:01

to speak with you today. Thank

1:04

you. It's great to be here. Sheila,

1:06

why don't we begin with Aflac? I

1:09

would imagine that a lot of

1:11

people who are watching or listening

1:14

to this will have some familiarity.

1:16

The famous duck and the great

1:18

commercials you have with a lot

1:20

of celebrities associated with them, but it would

1:22

love to have in your own words a

1:24

bit of an overview of Aflac's business as

1:26

it stands now. Perfect. Thank

1:28

you for asking. We're bets known

1:30

for our branding campaign and our

1:33

Aflac duck that we're very proud

1:35

of. Aflac's vision, of course, is

1:37

to create a world in which

1:39

people are better prepared for the

1:41

unexpected, with benefits

1:43

being our primary supplemental

1:46

benefits. Those cover usually

1:49

the issues or the financial

1:51

challenges that your primary

1:53

health insurance wouldn't cover. Aflac

1:55

has been in this

1:57

business for nearly 70 years.

2:00

and we've been offering all these

2:02

services and our hard -working Americans have

2:04

been depending upon AFLAC to deliver

2:06

these services. We pay cash benefits,

2:08

which is a little bit of

2:10

a different approach for expenses that

2:12

aren't covered by the primary health

2:14

insurance. And if you think about

2:16

the product lines that we serve,

2:19

we have product lines for customers

2:21

that include our individual. In the

2:23

group space, we've expanded to include

2:25

dental and vision products. We have

2:27

group, premier, life, absence, management and

2:29

disability solutions, we call it CLADS.

2:31

And then we also have, for

2:33

example, pet insurance through Trupanion, and

2:36

then we also have our group

2:38

voluntary benefits. Those group products, a

2:40

lot of them are largely sold

2:42

at the group level, or through

2:44

the work site, for example. One

2:46

of the things that we're most

2:48

proud of as a company is

2:50

how we balance our mission as

2:53

a company with our service mindset,

2:55

too. And one of the things

2:57

that, of course, we love around

2:59

our duck is we actually have

3:01

our My Special AFLAC duck, which

3:03

people love to hear about as

3:05

well. It's a robotic companion that

3:07

provides comfort to children going through

3:10

cancer and sickle cell treatments. And

3:12

so you'll see a lot of

3:14

commitment from AFLAC where we've invested

3:16

research into that. And then we

3:18

also give a substantial amount back

3:20

to the Children's Hospital of Atlanta

3:22

and the Cancer and Blood Disorder

3:24

Center, about $186 million today. So

3:27

we're very proud to tie in

3:29

our company mission and purpose to

3:31

actually giving back to the community

3:33

as one of the real benefits

3:35

of being a part of the

3:37

AFLAC community. That's a really great

3:39

overview, and a lot of substance

3:41

there that probably would be at

3:43

least nuanced to our listeners. So

3:46

thank you for that. I wanted

3:48

to ask you a bit more

3:50

about your role, Sheila, for a

3:52

little more than two and a

3:54

half years, you've been the executive

3:56

vice president and chief information officer

3:58

of the company. Can you talk

4:00

a bit about your... your role and what's

4:03

within your responsibilities? Yes, so I have all

4:05

responsibility for all technology at

4:07

Affleck. Over the years here,

4:09

we've actually combined technology organizations

4:12

into a single centralized organization.

4:14

Affleck had grown through acquisition,

4:16

our dental and vision products

4:18

that I had mentioned, our

4:21

Plad's business. both had been

4:23

through acquisitions and we also

4:25

have another direct consumer business

4:27

that was acquired. So we

4:30

have actually brought all of

4:32

those businesses into a central

4:34

technology organization. So we provide

4:36

technology services across the enterprise.

4:38

At the same time, we

4:41

brought in our corporate functions

4:43

as well as our global investment.

4:45

So it's a one-stop shop for

4:47

all technology at Affleck. If you

4:49

think about the organization, we have

4:51

a bit of a line of

4:53

business focus model today. So I

4:55

have individual leaders running each of

4:57

the line of business, individual

5:00

group, VP, plads, dental vision. And

5:02

then those leaders also interface with

5:04

my shared services organizations. I have

5:07

a team that focuses largely on.

5:09

shared platforms, if you think of

5:11

things like PEGA, etc. also our

5:14

integration layers, and then that shared

5:16

team, I also have my data

5:18

analytics and machine learning

5:20

focus in that same team. We

5:23

also have of course our core

5:25

and infrastructure area that we're

5:27

doing a lot of work

5:29

in at the same time.

5:31

And then I have a

5:33

team that's really focused on

5:35

technology business management, providing transparency

5:37

of financials and ensuring that

5:39

we're managing our asset inventories

5:41

correctly. So those in general

5:43

are the focus areas for

5:45

my organization. Again a great overview.

5:47

Sheila, thank you for that. And I

5:49

wonder across the time of your tenure.

5:52

I'd love to maybe have you

5:54

reflect upon when you join the

5:56

organization, the organization you found, versus

5:58

what you've just described. your current

6:00

purview. We were some of the

6:02

early observations and modifications that you

6:05

made based upon the organization you

6:07

came to lead. Yes, so coming

6:09

into the organization, one of the

6:11

first things that I noticed is

6:14

since Affleck had grown through acquisition,

6:16

there was a very disconnected governance

6:18

model over technology in general. So

6:20

if you think about leveraging your

6:23

total investments and even understanding how

6:25

much you're spending in technology across

6:27

the whole ecosystem, that was a

6:29

bit challenging to see because we

6:32

had several of what we like

6:34

to call our buy to build.

6:36

So we're investing in buying capabilities

6:38

and building and growing those as

6:41

a company. We really didn't have

6:43

a good line of sight into

6:45

that. So so really focusing in

6:47

First things first for me was,

6:50

how do I bring line of

6:52

sight and governance consistently over technology,

6:54

even though they may not report

6:56

into me? So that was a

6:59

very early insight that I had.

7:01

We need to have better visibility.

7:03

The other thing that I noticed

7:05

was. transparency and understanding of financials

7:07

here, how much you're investing in

7:10

where, and how are we making

7:12

decisions around investing in technology, the

7:14

smart decisions, investing in the right

7:16

things at the right time and

7:19

then expecting the right outcomes. So

7:21

that was a level of focus

7:23

that I had in bringing a

7:25

consistency around transparency of financials, technology

7:28

business management. And then the third

7:30

observation was really focused on architecture

7:32

really needing to bring in a

7:34

more enterprise-wide view of architecture to

7:37

better leverage capabilities across the enterprise.

7:39

You can imagine with growing through

7:41

acquisition, you acquire a technology footprint

7:43

with every company that you acquire.

7:46

And so over the years, that

7:48

has resulted in duplicate capabilities. And

7:50

I will say a bit of

7:52

overspending because you are investing multiple

7:55

times, three to five times in,

7:57

for example, claim systems or on-boarding

7:59

capabilities. our billing system. So that's

8:01

both the challenge and the opportunity

8:03

for us now is really focusing

8:05

in on what are the priorities.

8:08

And then how do we start

8:10

streamlining some of these capabilities to

8:12

deliver the best value for the

8:14

company, consolidating where we

8:16

can and optimizing the investment in

8:18

those technologies to drive the highest

8:21

value for Affleck and our customers.

8:23

Yeah, very interesting. And I

8:25

know from our past conversation,

8:27

Sheila, you've also been on a

8:29

cloud journey and you had an evolving

8:31

data center strategy. Can you talk a

8:33

bit about that and the foundation that

8:36

you're laying there? Absolutely. And I'll

8:38

talk about the evolution of that

8:40

as well. When I came to

8:42

the organization three years ago, one

8:44

of the programs that had recently

8:46

been built as a strategy and

8:48

actually funded was to do a

8:50

lift and shift strategy to move

8:53

all distributed capabilities to the cloud.

8:55

When I came in, one of the things

8:57

that I saw with organization is I wasn't

8:59

sure that that was going to be

9:01

the right strategy for Aflac and actually,

9:03

even if you look at the price

9:05

points of that, I think a more

9:07

intentional approach to how we choose to

9:10

migrate to the cloud was needed. So

9:12

we backed off of that investment strategy

9:14

and instead refocused efforts on planning and

9:16

making sure that the organization was at

9:18

a point of readiness when we were

9:20

moving forward with that strategy to actually

9:23

manage it appropriately and work with the

9:25

providers that were going to be part

9:27

of our ecosystem. So I focus first

9:29

on slowing that down, honestly, and it

9:31

is the right thing to slow things

9:33

down, depending upon what your expectations are

9:35

and making sure that we are investing

9:37

in educating our own. organization and

9:40

making sure that we had the right

9:42

people in the right seats to manage

9:44

those new capabilities. So we spent about

9:46

a year investing in retooling, educating, building

9:48

our own cloud center of excellence internally,

9:51

making that a central function so that

9:53

we actually leverage it not only in

9:55

the US but across our Japan company

9:57

as well. So we built that and

9:59

then As we like to say here, we

10:02

use the 3R approach. We want to

10:04

focus on the right solution. We want

10:06

to put it in the right place

10:08

at the right price. So if you

10:11

think about how we're looking at our

10:13

cloud strategy, and I would say our

10:15

hosting strategy is in general is, of

10:17

course, we do have cloud native

10:19

approach for all things new going

10:21

into the cloud. That's something

10:23

we're looking at. Right solution, right

10:25

place, right price. So some of

10:28

these distributed capabilities, for example, that

10:30

are not our tier warmer most

10:32

critical applications, we may leave them

10:34

and distribute it if they're running

10:36

at a price point that's acceptable

10:38

for us today. So it's really

10:41

balancing the approach to the cloud with

10:43

being able to take advantage of emerging

10:45

capabilities and then also really looking at

10:47

a more strategic lens of how are

10:50

you modernizing and which applications do you

10:52

want to target to be cloud native.

10:54

as part of your Tier 1

10:56

strategy for your organization. Yeah, interesting.

10:58

It seems like a variety aspects

11:01

of the conversation so far about

11:03

providing that priority and focus for

11:05

the organization and recasting a few

11:07

things based upon some of the

11:10

conclusions you're drawing. Sheila, I also

11:12

know from our past conversations that an

11:14

area of focus strategically is on a

11:16

unified group strategy for the organization. I

11:18

wonder if you can talk a bit

11:21

about what is intended by a unified

11:23

group strategy, but also the role the

11:25

technology plays in it. Of course. Thank

11:27

you for that question. I'll love that.

11:30

So it does tie into our strategy

11:32

as a company and as I mentioned

11:34

previously in the group space, we actually

11:37

have grown through acquisition. and then our

11:39

group BB. And typically, because you do

11:41

have three different acquired approaches, three different

11:44

ecosystems, typically what you would see

11:46

if you interacted with many of

11:48

those solutions today, you would see

11:50

Affleck presenting how our businesses are

11:53

aligned outward to our customers. And

11:55

the focus of the integrated strategy

11:57

is truly to integrate across all

11:59

of of those businesses to enable

12:01

a seamless experience, a one -stop

12:03

view for all of those

12:06

products so that we can sell

12:08

those into the respective markets

12:10

as an integrated solution. Ultimately,

12:12

that'll give us the opportunity to

12:14

streamline those services to our customers

12:16

and to make it a seamless

12:19

experience overall. How we're doing that

12:21

is we are not investing in

12:23

replacing all of these backends in

12:25

the beginning. So we're truly focusing

12:27

on, if you think

12:29

about everything from our request

12:31

to quoting process around how

12:33

are we going in and

12:35

thinking about selling those services

12:37

to our customer base or

12:40

at the work site and

12:42

then how are we then administering those

12:44

capabilities and what's the experience

12:46

of individuals leveraging those capabilities. We

12:48

want that to be very

12:50

seamless and integrated. So we're focusing

12:52

on that integration layer, the

12:54

front -end layer, and

12:57

then connecting the backends in

12:59

a seamless fashion so that

13:01

our companies are not being presented as

13:03

three different companies. You're seeing a

13:05

one -off like view of how you

13:07

experience a day in the life as

13:09

a group customer to reflect. Related

13:12

to what we've discussed has also been

13:14

some people change associated with the understandable

13:16

changes that you and the team are

13:18

working on. Can you talk a bit

13:21

about your talent strategy and how you've

13:23

thought about its evolution? Yes,

13:25

so one of the things when I

13:28

came into the organization, I always

13:30

liked to make sure that we have

13:32

the right people doing the right

13:34

work. And when I looked across

13:36

the ecosystem, I saw a heavy reliance

13:38

on many, many, many different third -party

13:40

partners. So that was one, we

13:43

had far too much reliance on partners

13:45

to deliver the work and not

13:47

just a few partners, but many. So

13:49

I knew that that strategy had

13:51

to change. And then, of course, we

13:53

took the approach of really looking across

13:55

all of our talent to say what do

13:57

we need in the future. Where

14:00

are we going? And what is

14:02

our three-year road route and defining

14:04

that road map first? Our architectural

14:06

lands as I previously mentioned and

14:08

anchoring in on what is the

14:10

view of our labor need to

14:12

look like? And then where are

14:14

we at today? What are our

14:16

gaps? Where do we need to

14:18

start indexing to hire more? And

14:21

where are we going to start

14:23

shifting the mix? And this has

14:25

all been done during a time

14:27

of optimization here. So it's been

14:29

a challenge and opportunity at the

14:31

same time. We also went through

14:33

and aligned all of our talent

14:35

to market approaches. So market approaches

14:37

on job codes on the compensation

14:39

associated with that, making sure that

14:41

we had career pathing within each

14:43

of those and it's been. a

14:45

huge endeavor. It's actually a multi-year

14:47

initiative for us. We're wrapping it

14:49

up this year. We started with

14:51

what I call the easy button

14:54

with our engineers because we knew

14:56

that engineering, we needed pretty much

14:58

everyone that we had doing those

15:00

engineering roles. So that was mapping

15:02

out those roles. And this year

15:04

we've been focused much more on

15:06

all of the rest of the

15:08

jobs, which is the oversight management

15:10

roles for a master, a lot

15:12

of the different capabilities that are

15:14

more oversight roles in making sure

15:16

that we have the right ratios

15:18

of those in the organization as

15:20

well. Fascinating and interesting to see

15:22

how that's operated in parallel with

15:24

some of what you described before,

15:27

how the architecture in some ways

15:29

has informed the what talent and

15:31

skills are necessary. Yeah. I wanted

15:33

to also ask you about the

15:35

use of data and ultimately deriving

15:37

value from artificial intelligence. Can you

15:39

talk about the journey that you

15:41

and the team are on relative

15:43

to these topics? Yes. So first

15:45

I'll talk about the structure of

15:47

the organization itself. I do have

15:49

a centralized approach to both data

15:51

and the analytics piece, which is

15:53

in our business. And then we

15:55

have our approach to AI, which

15:57

is on the same team. data

15:59

and the AI are heavily dependent

16:02

functions that we play some on

16:04

the same team. Here at Affleck

16:06

we also have an innovation laboratory,

16:08

we call it hat, hatching new

16:10

ideas, and that's also within the

16:12

same team. So one of the

16:14

changes that I shifted to was

16:16

to move all of those competencies

16:18

together, our data analytics. our AI,

16:20

as well as our approach to

16:22

innovation and hatch, because a lot

16:24

of the ideation that's coming through,

16:26

whether it be emerging technologies or

16:28

needing prove that capabilities, are largely related

16:31

now to the Gen AI space. I

16:33

would say the majority of them are.

16:35

So we've tightly coupled that together. As

16:37

you can imagine, also there's a couple

16:40

of pieces of it. One heavy dependency

16:42

that we also have on a

16:44

lot of the unified works that

16:46

we're doing is on making sure

16:48

that we have consistent view of

16:50

a unified view of customer of

16:52

policy information of claims information. So

16:54

that's a whole focus area of

16:56

work that will drive value for

16:58

us. And then the other is

17:00

the use of AI engineered AI

17:02

technology. So I'll talk about about

17:04

that in the journey. So Affleck

17:06

actually has had some huge success

17:09

in what I'll term legacy AI.

17:11

And if you think about looking at,

17:13

I think there's about nine different

17:15

categories of AI. If you think

17:17

about everything from heuristics,

17:20

RPA, the machine learning, NLP, OCR, IVP,

17:22

all of that. We have a little

17:24

bit of all of that in play

17:26

driving value. One of our most successful

17:28

AI solutions was implemented coming out

17:31

of the around the pandemic in

17:33

the early 2020 to 2022. We

17:35

had a solution that was implemented

17:37

more machine learning and AI

17:39

and that one was implemented

17:41

to focus on claims quality

17:44

in the beginning. We had

17:46

some challenges with claims quality

17:48

so the solution was developed we

17:50

call it code-based processing. It was

17:53

developed as a foundational system to

17:55

improve our climate quality. We achieved

17:57

that very quickly. And then very

18:00

quickly shifted to seeing other value through

18:02

the use of that capability, which was

18:04

being able to auto adjudicate claims also.

18:06

So not only make sure that the

18:09

quality was great, but being able to

18:11

look at thresholds and dollar values of

18:13

claims and say there's really no reason

18:16

to be manually handling this. Let's auto

18:18

adjudicate. We implemented that across multiple lines

18:20

of business, it's driven huge savings. We've

18:23

achieved all of our goals and ROI

18:25

and then some on that capability. It

18:27

also was one of our Cio 100

18:30

award winners as well. So that's legacy

18:32

now still driving value in our

18:34

business and still being deployed to

18:36

additional lines of business that I

18:39

fly so it's it's that gift

18:41

that keeps giving I will say

18:43

so that investment has more than

18:45

paid for itself ongoing. If you

18:48

shift over into generative AI, this

18:50

is where I would say we

18:52

have taken a more intentional approach.

18:54

Today we have quite a few proof

18:56

of concepts and of course a lot

18:59

of those are focused on helping us

19:01

to solve problems. A lot of everything

19:03

that we're doing is tied to priorities

19:05

in the company and solving

19:07

some of our biggest challenges

19:09

and opportunities. So if you

19:11

think about the investment on

19:13

the defense side of AI,

19:16

we're doing proof of concepts

19:18

as many are in code,

19:20

reverse engineering generation. We have

19:22

several large, very dated mainframe

19:24

technologies that we're looking at

19:26

this as another option to

19:28

determine if in fact we

19:30

can leverage capabilities to help

19:32

us reverse. engineer, some of those.

19:35

There's really nothing in the marketplace that's

19:37

100% fit. So we're still looking at

19:39

build, buy, can we reverse engineer? What

19:41

is our strategy going to be in

19:43

the future? And these generative AI

19:45

capabilities are going to help us to figure

19:48

out that path. And we're in the middle

19:50

of that. And then leveraging those co-gen

19:52

capabilities in general across our developer

19:54

community is something that we're doing.

19:57

And if you think about flipping

19:59

over to the actual business value

20:01

side. We've got quite a few

20:03

things that are either in our

20:05

pipeline or either in proof of concept.

20:07

What we've done is we map

20:10

it across our insurance value chain.

20:12

If you think of it as

20:14

pre-sales and product development, marketing and

20:17

sales. policy administration claims and

20:19

billing. And so we've mapped

20:21

the Gen A.I. asks against

20:23

that. And then we evaluate

20:25

those to determine what in

20:27

fact would drive the highest

20:29

value to the company. And

20:31

so most of those are

20:33

in the area of things

20:35

like we've got some agents,

20:37

some recommendations, agent recommendations. We've

20:39

got autonomous underwriting as a category.

20:41

some of the passive and active

20:43

agents, a little bit of the

20:45

agentic AI approach that we're looking

20:47

at, some sales, sales insights and

20:50

agent recruiting, I think is a

20:52

focus area in the future, document

20:54

imaging and scanning, all of the

20:56

OCR and intelligent search is a

20:58

big piece. We're looking at an

21:00

area as part of our unified

21:02

approach, a group on boarding, right?

21:04

So how do we leverage AI

21:06

capabilities or gen AI capabilities to

21:08

help with the whole? customer or

21:11

group onboarding process. And so that

21:13

ties into one of our critical

21:15

goals for the company. And then

21:17

more of those types of capabilities is

21:19

what you see. So we're really tying

21:22

in most of what we're doing to

21:24

priorities for our business. And

21:26

so today we're not necessarily setting

21:28

aside this proof of concept bucket

21:31

of dollars because we're actually seeing

21:33

opportunities to leverage it with the

21:35

work that we have to do

21:37

already in our ecosystem. You

21:39

know, brings to mind that last point

21:41

you raised, but also a thread through

21:44

the entire conversation. I know a mantra

21:46

of yours is no your why. I

21:48

wonder if you can talk a bit

21:50

about sort of the thought process behind

21:52

that, how you think of that as

21:55

a prioritization mechanism. Absolutely.

21:57

And that starts, I always love to

21:59

say. that it all starts with why

22:01

and understanding the business need behind the

22:04

work that you're doing. You have to

22:06

anchor back to that business need? What

22:08

is the opportunity, the upside, the challenge

22:11

that you're solving for and then think

22:13

through the associated value that you expect

22:15

to achieve in the business? So why

22:18

are you doing this? Why invest? That's

22:20

a big part of how we look

22:22

at partization. Anything that we do here,

22:24

the way that we decide where we

22:27

put our dollars at work is through

22:29

assessing against business priority first. So

22:31

those things that have the highest

22:33

opportunity for return or either, of

22:35

course, we have a lot of

22:38

compliance and regular. we have to

22:40

do those, but the other ones

22:42

are truly assessed to grants against

22:44

multiple criteria, business value, return on

22:46

investment, and those are the things that

22:49

we fund to move forward. Well

22:51

articulated, thank you, Sheila. I wonder

22:53

as you look to the future,

22:55

are there other trends that particularly

22:58

excite you, Sheila, that are making

23:00

their way among your priorities or

23:02

at least in the bucket of

23:04

things to potentially pursue as time

23:06

goes on? Well, I think for

23:08

us too, the whole agentic AI is

23:11

an area, of course, everything around

23:13

AI is still emerging and I always

23:15

I always love that phrase. The technology

23:17

that you're experiencing today

23:20

is the least mature that it's

23:22

going to be on the day

23:24

that you're experiencing it. So think

23:27

about the maturity curve of these

23:29

technologies. They're they're just increasing,

23:31

increasing every day. So there's a

23:33

learning every day. So I think

23:35

Adentric AI is one definitely that

23:37

I think has the opportunity to shape

23:39

some of our experiences of the

23:41

future. I think that's going to

23:43

be something to watch, definitely. Great

23:46

insight, Sheila. I look forward to

23:48

remaining abreast of how the organization

23:50

progresses in its use of it.

23:52

I also wanted to ask you

23:54

at the close. Anything you recently

23:56

read, listened to and or watched that

23:58

you would recommend appears. podcast listener

24:00

on the way into work, and I have

24:02

a couple that I'd like to listen to,

24:04

and some of them are different. So one

24:06

of the ones that I enjoy listening to

24:09

is The Future of Everything. It's the Stanford

24:11

Research Podcast. It just challenges you a little

24:13

bit, thinking out of the box. And then

24:15

I've actually spent some time with Lex Friedman

24:17

when I was in Boston, so I enjoy

24:19

following Lex actually back in the day when

24:21

he was doing a lot of work with

24:24

MIT. So I enjoy that. And then the

24:26

other one that I listen to related to

24:28

AI is the AI daily brief. Enjoy that

24:30

one of course as well. And on the

24:32

reading side, I will tell you, I actually

24:34

in rereading an old read that I've actually

24:37

had for a number of years. by

24:39

Agra Wall. I think it's the prediction

24:41

machines. That's one that I've pulled back

24:43

out. And I see that it's still

24:46

on a top 20 HBR list. So

24:48

I'd recommend that one definitely as a

24:50

good read. All great suggestions, Sheila. Thank

24:52

you for those. And thank you,

24:54

we're generally speaking for a great

24:57

conversation. It's wonderful to hear more

24:59

about the remarkable progress you and

25:01

the team have made across the,

25:03

again, roughly two and a half

25:05

years that you've been in your

25:07

role. Thank you, Peter.