0:06

You've had a dynamic where money's

0:09

become freer than free. If you

0:11

talk about a Fed just gone nuts,

0:13

all the central banks going nuts. So

0:15

it's all acting like safe haven.

0:17

I believe that in a world

0:19

where central bankers are tripping over

0:21

themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin

0:23

wins. In the world of fiat

0:26

currencies, Bitcoin is the victor. I

0:28

mean, that's part of the bull

0:30

case for Bitcoin. If you're not

0:32

paying attention, you probably should

0:34

be. Oh,

0:36

you mentioned FTX right before we

0:38

hit record, but that was something

0:41

I was like, if you paid attention

0:43

to the space the way Sam

0:45

McNifread came out of nowhere, the

0:47

Kim Chi trade, yeah, we know

0:49

it in the Bitcoin spaces there

0:51

that are between the United States,

0:53

Korea, and some other parts of

0:55

Southeast Asia, always, or existed for

0:57

a while, and a lot of Bitcoiners,

0:59

we're like, all right, there's an

1:02

R pair of take advantage of it,

1:04

and even. individuals

1:06

who had family and connections, maybe

1:08

even second passports in Korea, couldn't

1:11

set up bank accounts. Like the

1:13

whole lure behind Sam Bankman freed

1:15

and him getting rich on the Kim

1:17

Chi trade just didn't pass the sniff

1:19

test with many Bitcoiners who thought of

1:21

that before and tried. I mean, basically

1:24

everything about Sam Bankman freed didn't pass

1:26

the sniff test right up to him

1:28

being the exact kind of personality that...

1:30

Like an intelligence agency or like a

1:32

subversion operation would look for to

1:35

kind of make a patsy out

1:37

of it's like a young kid

1:39

with lots of like lust greed

1:41

and pride that you can You don't

1:43

even need to tell him that

1:45

he's a part of something you

1:47

can just give him money and

1:49

opportunity and women and like bullshit

1:51

and then just lead him around by

1:54

By the the the nose by the

1:56

sin so to speak. Yeah, can't forget

1:58

the amphetamines either that's an Well set.

2:00

Well set. And they just give them

2:02

the dream. And just like, oh man,

2:05

everything's just working out so good. I'm

2:07

a genius. Pop. Yeah. So it was

2:09

that. And then when he was on

2:12

CNBC, I had a tweet out in

2:14

July 21 year before everything failed. And

2:16

I got lambasted by the Solana people,

2:18

because he was on squawk box with

2:21

Joe Kern and Andrew Sorken and those

2:23

guys. getting his big media hits. Getting

2:25

his big media hits, but he was

2:28

like, they were asking him about the

2:30

difference between proof of work and proof

2:32

of state consensus mechanisms and having been

2:34

in the space for almost a decade

2:37

at that point. I was like, this

2:39

guy has no idea what he's talking

2:41

about and to think that he can

2:44

actually operate a company in this space

2:46

without any fundamental understanding of the assets

2:48

that he's supposed to be securing and

2:50

enabling trade around is. is risky. Yeah,

2:53

just to keep a company afloat in

2:55

the space, let alone to be like

2:57

the market leader, like making all the

3:00

big deals and going to Congress and

3:02

like being the voice of crypto regulation

3:04

all of a sudden out of nowhere.

3:06

Yeah, that all screamed central banker to

3:09

me. And the timing was really, really

3:11

important too. It was clearly built up

3:13

with the bubble at this moment when

3:16

central banks were realizing that they were

3:18

behind. on the digital currency train and

3:20

they were starting to talk about their

3:22

plans but they clearly needed years to

3:25

catch up and I mean Bitcoin and

3:27

crypto in general was just like charging

3:29

has been for like a decade now

3:32

at this point towards alternative solutions and

3:34

this again feels like right now once

3:36

again like with Trump coming in with

3:38

Elon coming in with RFK like all

3:41

of these people have spoken pro Bitcoin

3:43

and pro crypto in various ways. SEC

3:45

reform is on the table and like

3:47

all those things just line up with

3:50

like kill it, kill it as fast

3:52

as we can, like rug all that

3:54

momentum as quickly as possible so that

3:57

we can just keep people in the

3:59

circle. of centralized mindset of like, no,

4:01

we need centralized because this is what

4:03

happens. Yeah. The, I mean, the FTX

4:06

run up, like the mainstream would

4:08

be like, oh, Bitcoin went higher than

4:10

it was supposed to because FTX was

4:12

manipulating the markets, but they were

4:14

actually taking people's Bitcoin and market

4:16

selling it to give to all

4:19

these things that if you actually

4:21

look at. The charge not that T.A. is

4:23

iron clatter or anything but it's a good

4:25

argument to be made that Bitcoin probably should

4:27

have gone to like $100,000 range in 2021.

4:30

I mean it's similar to like gold and

4:32

silver markets. It's like a lot of people

4:34

make these arguments that I find kind of

4:36

weird that it's like you can't

4:38

manipulate precious metals markets there. That's

4:41

why I buy gold. I'm like, bro, have you looked

4:43

at the precious metals market at all? Like,

4:45

do you know about JP Morgan and precious

4:47

metals? And I don't know that much about

4:49

it, but I know it's manipulated. But at

4:52

least it has, it's only manipulated within a

4:54

certain like range of fundamental principles,

4:56

whereas the crypto market,

4:58

Bitcoin excluded, crypto, like all these

5:00

shit coins and stuff, like that's, it's

5:03

not only manipulated, but it's

5:05

manipulated within a space that has

5:07

no guardrails against manipulation whatsoever. Yeah, and

5:09

it's so trivial to spin up a

5:11

market to manipulate. And what we've discovered,

5:13

it sounds like, correct me if I'm

5:15

wrong, what it sounds like, what we're

5:18

learning from this exposure of this, specifically

5:20

this crew that was involved in the

5:22

Malania coin and now in Malay's coins

5:24

in, what was it called, Libra? Libra.

5:26

It sounds like what's integral to the

5:28

shit-coin market is you have to have

5:31

a purse of several million dollars coming

5:33

into a project with you to artificially

5:35

pump it so that when you rug it,

5:37

you sort of like doing this rinse and

5:39

repeat of this massive pool of capital designed

5:41

to manipulate your coins. And in the shit-coin

5:43

market, I know a bunch of people that

5:45

are like really down with the DJ and

5:47

gambling in the salana markets that have tried

5:49

to spin up coins and they were realizing

5:51

over the last like year or two that,

5:53

oh. Our coins don't move like everyone else's coins

5:55

because we don't have a treasury of $5

5:58

million designed to manipulate our coin. Yeah. And

6:00

they're like, man, that's, I mean, that's what

6:02

Hayden was saying,

6:04

incriminating himself, sniping and all that.

6:06

And I think that. Yeah,

6:08

I haven't actually watched his interviews yet. But what I've

6:11

heard of them is like mine. The

6:13

fact that he would even just willingly go

6:15

on Coffee Zilla. I really want to watch

6:17

that Coffee Zilla episode because it's like, I

6:19

can only imagine how taken aback Coffee Zilla

6:21

was to be like, bro,

6:23

we're not filming a confession.

6:25

Like you don't have to admit

6:28

to everything. Well, that's it's like somebody

6:30

has stumbled into quote unquote success,

6:32

but just stumbled into some sort of

6:34

position where it's like, oh, these

6:36

people want to give me money to

6:38

pull these coins. I set up

6:40

these back channel out of band sort

6:42

of communications networks to all right,

6:44

here's what we're attacking now. Here's what

6:46

we're going to snipe, blah, blah,

6:48

blah. He was literally describing this. And

6:51

I guess one one, like I would

6:53

not be surprised if it's Intel

6:55

Psyop to aggregate

6:58

anybody's confidence

7:00

in. I mean,

7:02

I think crypto, but

7:04

also it is the

7:06

ultimate end state of where all this has

7:08

been moving for the last 13 years

7:10

since the first all coins emerged. And

7:12

so I think whether it's a Psyop

7:14

or not, I think one thing that's

7:16

certainly a fact

7:19

is that every other

7:21

scam going back to history. So

7:23

it started in like 2012, 2013,

7:25

where you would have what

7:28

we're called fair proof of

7:30

work launches. Those were like the first ones

7:32

where it was like somebody would go on Bitcoin

7:35

talk .org and they'd be like, all right,

7:37

we're going to launch this proof of

7:39

work coin with this scripting algorithm. And

7:41

we're going to launch it at this

7:43

time on this day. So for it

7:45

to be a fair launch, make sure

7:47

you have your computer set up running

7:49

the scripting algorithm. And then as soon

7:52

as the clock hits 11am, point

7:54

your hash at this network and we'll begin

7:56

the fair distribution of the coins via

7:58

the block. subsidy schedule

8:00

set out by the certain, the particular

8:03

dev team. And then that evolved

8:05

to like proof of stake coins,

8:07

like proof of works like dumb

8:09

and energy intensive, like here's proof

8:11

of stake, and then ICOs, and

8:13

then NFTs, DFI, and now meme coins

8:15

is the ultimate end state of this,

8:17

where it's just like, all right, we're

8:20

not even going to pretend like we're

8:22

trying to do something legitimate here, we're

8:24

going to open up the casino. And

8:26

like, it's funny, comparing this like

8:28

the 2017. cycle where there

8:31

was this facade of projected

8:33

legitimacy about the sort of

8:35

operations behind the tokens that

8:38

were being spun up and

8:40

the businesses behind them. And

8:42

what people are finding is

8:44

that these are not tech

8:46

protocols. They certainly are to an

8:49

extent, but they're in an open

8:52

monetary competition with

8:54

Bitcoin. Nothing were able to

8:56

be able to be there. is such

8:58

a good, like, tin foil space, or like,

9:00

rather, it's such a good space

9:02

to start to speculate on comparisons

9:04

to other phenomenon, like the one

9:07

that comes to my mind is degeneracy

9:09

in our media and movie spaces,

9:11

where like at first it's like, oh,

9:13

we'll just like, show a little bikini, and

9:15

then we'll just like, oh, we'll just show

9:17

a little this, and then we'll

9:19

show a little this, and then

9:21

pretty soon we're like, like, like

9:24

having sex on stage on stage

9:26

in front of children, and that

9:28

our pop music is. and it's

9:30

always a slow walk towards like

9:32

any any sort of like system

9:34

that's based upon catering towards our

9:36

lesser tendencies in this case greed

9:38

and gambling and in that case

9:40

like sin and sloth and such

9:42

like they inherently will slow walk

9:44

you towards the most the most

9:46

egregious outcome right whereas Bitcoin

9:48

is built on on principles of

9:50

integrity. And so in some ways, it's

9:53

like this complete divergent train for this,

9:55

what is really a banking revolution. I

9:57

mean, like, in the same way that, I mean,

9:59

is the way I look at it,

10:02

but I look at the history

10:04

of the United States and how

10:06

we were really founded as an

10:08

exit from the central bankers of

10:10

Europe, as much as taxes or

10:12

T or whatever else the story

10:14

was. It's like we were breaking

10:16

free of central banking and these

10:18

monarchies and these sort of like

10:20

just ultra oligarchs. The continental dollar,

10:22

right, like when we first had

10:24

the revolutionary war, it was like

10:26

we're getting away from that. Exactly,

10:28

and during that. first several hundred

10:30

years of our nation there was

10:32

just like currencies being spun up

10:34

all over the place every state

10:36

had a ton of different papers

10:38

and it wasn't there was all

10:40

these problems and a lot of

10:42

those projects were like scam coins

10:44

just like today or they were

10:46

you know high integrity products that

10:48

like had poor fundamental values and

10:50

fortunately we arrived at the Federal

10:52

Reserve System which is like the

10:54

best system ever and it could

10:56

never go wrong so yeah you

10:59

know I'm optimisticistic that this this

11:01

cycle will have learned more and

11:03

Bitcoin is obviously Like an infinitely

11:05

better solution than the solutions we've

11:07

arrived at before so yeah, and

11:09

that's one thing I mean you

11:11

were asking Before we sat down

11:13

like there's no shit pointers on

11:15

this floor. Was everybody is anybody

11:17

but her crying like no everybody's

11:19

actually Mm-hmm Breathing a sigh of

11:21

relief because it has been exhausting

11:23

having been public in this quote-unquote

11:25

industry being bundled in with the

11:27

crypto bros for last Eight years

11:29

as I've been public in, I

11:31

think, many Bitcoiners, many in this

11:33

building and who run in the

11:35

same circles and have the same

11:37

view of what's happening, have been

11:39

screaming from the rooftops for the

11:41

better part of 12 years. This

11:43

is all scam. It's all gonna

11:45

end well and literally predicted the

11:47

end state of meme coins, which

11:49

was none of this is gonna

11:51

work and you're just gonna end

11:53

up at a spot where it's

11:55

just a pure casino. And people

11:57

do like the casino, but. I

11:59

think it's like fair if you

12:01

want to gamble, go gamble, but

12:03

like don't pretend like it's going

12:05

to be some financial revolution or

12:08

something. No. It's gambling. Yeah, and

12:10

we're beginning, but we're, I mean,

12:12

you're seeing it in the market

12:14

caps of Bitcoin every other crypto

12:16

is, they're diverging very, very, very,

12:18

very clearly on the chart, the

12:20

market dominance chart for the first

12:22

time in the history of Bitcoin's

12:24

existence alongside shit coins, which is.

12:26

Yeah, I'm really curious what happens

12:28

to the broader sort of like

12:30

Ethereum spaces and stuff where like,

12:32

like. Because the ones that, even

12:34

the ones that aren't like overtly

12:36

meme coins that like, you know,

12:38

portent to have value or utility,

12:40

even they are sort of seriously

12:42

tainted by this whole thing because

12:44

the same mechanics that allowed for

12:46

meme coins to become what they

12:48

are are latent in a lot

12:50

of those other projects. free mine

12:52

itself. Like that's what all these

12:54

mean coins are. Not to mention

12:56

all the like the Eathgate stuff

12:58

and sort of like who really

13:00

is actually owning all that, who's

13:02

behind Vitality and a certain, like

13:04

there's all these questions that you

13:06

know you can go deep on

13:08

and get tin foil, but you

13:10

don't have to get that tin

13:12

foil to just recognize the difference.

13:14

It's not a very well-kept secret

13:17

in the industry. Joe Lubin is

13:19

most of the Easter. I forget

13:21

it was Goldman or JP Morgan.

13:23

They're sort of backing there, they're

13:25

sort of backing it. They're sort

13:27

of backing it. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah,

13:29

I'm getting really curious and I

13:31

expect we're going to get answers

13:33

within the next couple months of

13:35

like what is the government and

13:37

regulatory response to this going to

13:39

be because Trump really got whether

13:41

he knew it or not he

13:43

really got drug into the mud

13:45

with the Trump coin and the

13:47

Malania coin and that's a serious

13:49

reputation hit in general and I

13:51

can't wonder can't help a wonder

13:53

if that's not like sort of

13:55

their ultimate targeted hit is if

13:57

you can't kill Trump's administration's willingness

13:59

to engage with Bitcoin or with

14:01

like with that conversation at all

14:03

just because of the salana scams

14:05

that are going on that really

14:07

sets like JP Morgan up in

14:09

a great position to go CBDCs.

14:11

to get his ear. And if

14:13

I were Donald Trump, I'd be

14:15

screaming at Don Junior and Eric

14:17

Trump, because it seems like they're

14:19

really the ones who've been driving

14:21

this World Liberty fight. And that's

14:23

the other thing, too, is these

14:26

crypto scammers for... I think you

14:28

have to give them credit in

14:30

the sense that they network well

14:32

and they have the ability to

14:34

get next to these people in

14:36

the vicinity of power to convince

14:38

them to do objectively retarded things.

14:40

It's an interesting space because the

14:42

reality of how these things actually

14:44

work is extremely complicated, the mechanics,

14:46

the actual tokenomics, whether you're talking

14:48

from a dev standpoint, or just

14:50

from a... monetary standpoint. It's actually

14:52

quite complicated to really understand what's

14:54

going on, but there's this layer

14:56

of excellent like of surface layer

14:58

surface level explanation that can be

15:00

given that feels like encompassing and

15:02

is so obvious and like, oh

15:04

my gosh, it's free value. There's

15:06

like so much here, like look

15:08

at what these other ones. And

15:10

so it's so easy to convince

15:12

people at the right intentions, maybe.

15:14

have been swept into the wrong

15:16

place in a huge way. And

15:18

I'm worried that that happened to

15:20

a lot of the Trump team

15:22

and a lot of the RFK

15:24

team on this train. Yeah, well,

15:26

I think I've said this publicly

15:28

on the podcast before, but fuck

15:30

it, like, it exists, like, RFK's

15:32

team and the lead up to

15:34

the election, and it wasn't his

15:37

team, this is like, like, PAC

15:39

associated. Yeah, like, I believe. They

15:41

reached out to me and they

15:43

were like, oh, and they just

15:45

sent me a link to the

15:47

RFK Solana coin. And we're like,

15:49

will you share this? Was it

15:51

maha? I don't think it was

15:53

maha, no. Yeah, so I have

15:55

this really interesting podcast with my

15:57

homies in this maha space last

15:59

night. And these are two guys.

16:01

that are like pretty deep in

16:03

the like shit coin world and

16:05

they totally own that they're like

16:07

for it and this is Dustin

16:09

Stockton and Kyle Kemper and they

16:11

launched this maha coin that was

16:13

using the tax on the on

16:15

the on all the transactions in

16:17

the first I think like six or nine

16:19

months or something like that to fund like

16:22

political campaigning to fund like this bus tour

16:24

to fund all this media to fund all

16:26

this merge and it was like actually incredible

16:28

it's how I met both of them by

16:30

chance is because they were there and and

16:32

so they they had like they were like

16:34

kind of two high integrity people that were

16:37

in the space that were very optimistic and

16:39

saw I mean they saw the shit. coins

16:41

like the shit coin nature but they also

16:43

saw the potential for if you had all

16:45

high integrity people with purpose you could do

16:47

something cool but we live in a world

16:49

full of people and we're this really cool

16:52

kind of come to Jesus conversation like four

16:54

or five days ago where I was like

16:56

guys I can't do a podcast that's associated

16:58

with the shit coin like I can't even

17:00

if it's an idealistic shit coin like I

17:02

can't be associated with that and I'm not

17:04

going to be and I want to keep

17:07

you know hanging with you guys and talking

17:09

with you guys and talking with you guys

17:11

but we've got it. confront this and Kyle

17:13

I didn't know the extent of the drama

17:15

and Kyle's like yeah I'm fucking over this

17:17

I'm so done got Dustin on the phone

17:19

and Dustin's like the shit coin or a

17:22

shit coin or you could ever shit coin

17:24

and he's like yeah I'm fucking over this

17:26

like I am done this is not the

17:28

path like like it doesn't matter how optimistic

17:30

you are you have to at a certain

17:32

point just like admit that you are barking

17:34

up the wrong tree and so we officially

17:37

split it and was like this is not

17:39

we have to focus on the real like

17:41

yeah it is what it is let's I

17:43

mean and that's whether it's Trump coin Malani

17:45

Amaha RFK took and I mean that's the

17:47

advice I've given when people have come to

17:49

me like I'm watching like the same advice

17:52

I would give Dave importantly he may be

17:54

in trouble now but should call me Dave

17:56

is like think about what is it called

17:58

a meme coin what are memes there these

18:00

ideas that are assisting articulated whether it's via

18:02

an image or saying like maha that

18:04

really connect with people but as

18:07

we the internet things come and

18:09

go trends come and go exactly

18:11

and when like the political class

18:14

would come to me and ask

18:16

about the politician focused

18:18

meme coins it was like no

18:20

this is the terrible idea because you're

18:23

gonna have like hardcore supporters that are

18:25

going to buy into this the price

18:27

may go up temporarily but they believe

18:29

in the politician that this coin is

18:32

supposed to be representing and what happens

18:34

if he drops out the election what

18:36

happens if he doesn't get elected what

18:39

happens if something happens like or if

18:41

there's just manipulation you're gonna have a

18:43

bunch of supporters holding heads yeah and

18:46

then you've just undermined specifically the people

18:48

that support you the most you've just

18:50

fucked them exactly like stuff freaks

18:52

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18:54

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18:56

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18:58

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of our high velocity trash economy. People

20:44

don't want to do the hard work,

20:46

the proof of work, if you will.

20:49

And it is cool to see sort

20:51

of the evolution of people's thinking in

20:53

the space and to watch like myself

20:56

being sort of like a, I mean

20:58

kind of like an outsider like orange

21:00

pillar, but knowing a fair number of

21:03

people in the Bitcoin space and also

21:05

knowing a lot of people in the

21:07

more general crypto space, especially novices that

21:10

are slowly getting orange pilled because of

21:12

the progression of the meme coin trajectory

21:14

has been really cool to watch because

21:17

there's no better proof of proof of

21:19

proof of work than watching. all the

21:21

other, you know, modalities just burn. Yeah,

21:24

as Bitcoin's only getting stronger. Exactly. And

21:26

that there, I do have a grace

21:28

for the archetype of the individual who

21:30

thought Bitcoin was too hard to build

21:33

on and they wanted to build these

21:35

cool financial products or social interaction applications,

21:37

whatever it may be. And going back

21:40

to proof of work, it's going to

21:42

take time, lower your time preference. I

21:44

think the timing of this meme coin

21:47

shit show that's happening and the maturation

21:49

of the stack being built on Bitcoin

21:51

is perfect because you've recently joined Noster

21:54

and I think. Noster is a perfect

21:56

example of the manifestation of a meme

21:58

that was big last cycle, which was

22:01

Web 3.0, which is this idea that

22:03

you'd spin up a utility token for

22:05

different use cases, whether it's a podcast.

22:08

You want a token associated with the

22:10

show and people can accumulate it and

22:12

send it back to you. It doesn't

22:15

make economic sense at all. But what

22:17

we're seeing on Noster Podcasting 2.0, which

22:19

we talked about last summer when you're

22:21

on, is like this... You just combine

22:24

these open source protocols communication protocol and

22:26

Noster RSS open content distribution with Bitcoin

22:28

and it plays nice bingo. Yeah, it's

22:31

like the I was I was really

22:33

taken in by the Ethereum crowds arguments

22:35

for utility based coins really of like

22:38

like blockchain based stock markets and blockchain

22:40

based this and that it's like there's

22:42

It's very enticing those arguments because there

22:45

is logic within them, but I think

22:47

it's taken a long time for people

22:49

to start to realize that the point

22:52

of that is that it's not a

22:54

currency. Those are not monies. Like what,

22:56

for example, it would be great for

22:59

a public good, like public shares of

23:01

public companies, put it on a blockchain.

23:03

Nothing wrong with having a public share

23:06

being on a public blockchain if it's

23:08

because we don't want counterfeit shares like

23:10

we want them to be immutable and

23:12

currently they don't seem to be immutable.

23:15

So that's great, but it's not a

23:17

currency. It's not like you don't need

23:19

it to have like monetary mechanisms built

23:22

into it. And so what Noster is

23:24

doing where they're combining the positive elements

23:26

of decentralized technologies that make sense in

23:29

this use case and then just combine

23:31

it with the Bitcoin currency system. You

23:33

don't need to reinvent a new new

23:36

currency that's built in this in this.

23:38

in a way that is not optimized

23:40

for currency. You know, use the technology

23:43

elements for what they're good for. Exactly.

23:45

And when it comes to whether it's

23:47

the big, this is where. I think

23:50

a lot of money is going to

23:52

be burned, particularly from Tradfai, this cycle,

23:54

is the meme around real world assets,

23:57

RWA's, tokenizing real world assets, stocks being

23:59

one of the top priorities, and you

24:01

nailed it. And you don't even need

24:03

it on the block. This is already

24:06

possible on a side chain of Bitcoin

24:08

liquid, which is a federated. side chain

24:10

has its own blockchain. But yeah, you

24:13

can issue tokens that have no monetary

24:15

value. And so if you were a

24:17

company issuing shares of stock, you could

24:20

do that on the liquid network today.

24:22

Some people have already, I believe. But

24:24

yeah, the whole point is like you

24:27

really honed in on is like, it's

24:29

not like you don't invest in that

24:31

like you would invest in like an

24:34

Ethereum or a salon. Like it's literally

24:36

just a changing in the form of.

24:38

the representative value of the underlying stock

24:41

and the rails it runs on and

24:43

so like to think that you're gonna

24:45

invest in a real-world Asset and it's

24:48

gonna it's gonna increase the volatility of

24:50

the underlying stock like that's not Conceptually

24:52

what's gonna change what's gonna change the

24:54

form of how you buy and sell

24:57

so make it harder to counterfeit it.

24:59

Yeah, or impossible to counterfeit it. Yeah,

25:01

you can still manipulate all these systems

25:04

just like you can manipulate any system

25:06

like saying Bitcoin is manipulable but it's

25:08

manipulable on the rails that That are

25:11

the way you want a currency to

25:13

work, you know, the point is because

25:15

I think that There's there's like this

25:18

novice perception that the right currency wouldn't

25:20

be like people point at Bitcoin as

25:22

like it's just a gambling asset Look

25:25

at its look at its crazy thing

25:27

like the dollar doesn't do that so

25:29

why would it's like a dollar kind

25:32

of does do that but beside from

25:34

that? It's like you don't want to

25:36

build in control mechanisms that prevent manipulation

25:39

that are part of a free market

25:41

because then you're inherently undermining the actual

25:43

nature of your currency, you have to

25:45

do with the free market if you're

25:48

going to build a real free market

25:50

currency. And unfortunately, the free market is

25:52

a pretty messed up place these days.

25:55

Yeah, well, and once you introduce the

25:57

free market, like anything could be minute.

25:59

Is me going to strike up right

26:02

now and selling some of my

26:04

Bitcoin manipulation technology does affect

26:06

the order book in one

26:09

way or another? But the volatility

26:12

does really throw people off and

26:14

it's not surprising that it does

26:16

because it is a bit jarring

26:19

if you're getting into it. You're

26:21

like, oh, I'm going to put

26:23

my savings in this and that's

26:25

why you have to like really...

26:27

drive home, this is a long

26:29

term saying make sure you're willing

26:31

to hold it for multiple years,

26:33

but then also like take a

26:35

step back, you have a new

26:37

monetary asset monetizing in real time

26:40

and people are becoming confident

26:42

and less confident based off

26:44

of information that is coming out

26:47

every day and therefore. You're not

26:49

going to have this new monetary asset

26:51

just fully monetize overnight. It's going to

26:53

be filled with volatility. That's what I

26:55

love about it, man. That's my favorite

26:57

part about Bitcoin being it being like

26:59

entering kind of financial literacy in general

27:01

from a game stop investor perspective. I'm

27:03

down with volatility like I'm super into

27:05

that and I'm down with holding forever

27:07

like I got that. And so when

27:10

I look at Bitcoin, it's just such

27:12

a no-brainer of yeah, I'll put my because

27:14

I think a lot of Americans genuinely don't

27:16

have the ability to really make savings right

27:18

And so yeah, it's not, that makes it

27:20

impossible to look at because if you

27:22

need your money today, you know, it's

27:25

not the asset for you. But when

27:27

you're trying to like, when you are

27:29

taking your finances responsibly and doing something

27:31

like, like the old adage of put

27:33

10% of all you earn away forever

27:35

as you're growing wealth, like that is

27:37

just so clearly a Bitcoin position, as

27:39

in so many people are looking at their

27:42

IRAs now and their like investment portfolios

27:44

that are being managed at like, you

27:46

know. three to five percent. It's like,

27:48

why would I keep that like a lot

27:50

of people are starting to realize and I'm not

27:52

telling people to do this is like people are

27:55

realizing like I should just take the tax hit

27:57

of withdrawing all my money from my retirement account

27:59

right now. and put it all into

28:01

Bitcoin right now. Because even if I

28:03

were to give away half of that

28:06

money to taxes, I would still make

28:08

it all back and then some in

28:10

the next Bitcoin cycle. Total no-brainer. Yeah.

28:12

And that, like, whether it's liquidating or

28:14

IRA or 401K, or simply just buying,

28:17

like, yes, most Americans cannot afford like

28:19

a $400 American or emergency expense, excuse

28:21

me. But if you have. the ability

28:23

to square like even if it's $50

28:26

of paycheck $50 a month to just

28:28

start slow and build that nest egg.

28:30

I mean I didn't seriously start accumulating

28:32

Bitcoin until like less than a year

28:35

ago now because I was just living

28:37

kind of on fumes and reinvesting everything

28:39

back into what I was building in

28:41

my media space and once I did

28:44

start seriously like I had enough extra

28:46

capital to start putting away like a

28:48

hundred there a thousand there like it

28:50

was an immediate I think it's at

28:52

like up 10% 20% just on this

28:55

little cycle here and it's like fine

28:57

if it goes back down but it's

28:59

just crazy how how scary it is

29:01

from the outside but once you're inside

29:04

it's like so refreshing and relaxing to

29:06

know that and this is a thing

29:08

that all Bitcoiners. No, and this is

29:10

why Bitcoiners are such fun people, because,

29:13

and you're a great example of this,

29:15

is that I've noticed that when I

29:17

meet Bitcoiners, they're just calmer. They're just

29:19

chill, and they're not stressed like regular

29:22

Americans, because I think most of us

29:24

don't even realize how much of our

29:26

daily, like, stress and tension is coming

29:28

from financial instability. And this sort of

29:30

subtle knowledge that I'm... The system has

29:33

constantly got me on this, and most

29:35

people don't realize they're on this treadmill

29:37

of like, why is it that I

29:39

can never afford anything? Why is it

29:42

that I'm always trying to make rent

29:44

and I'm always trying to pay my

29:46

bills and like, and the moment you

29:48

start to put more and more of

29:51

your assets into Bitcoin, you don't even

29:53

notice it at first maybe if you're

29:55

not paying attention to the tokenomics of

29:57

why does it's happening, but it's like.

30:00

I'm going to be, it's like it's going

30:02

to be fine. Yeah. Because as this all

30:04

gets harder, my number's going up in the

30:06

background. And I'm just chilling. Then you

30:08

have the piece of mine that you're

30:11

actually contributing to something worthwhile. And that

30:13

is separate. And I mean, I just

30:15

had Provian Bullon and we were going

30:18

over. He is. And we were going

30:20

all over, like, that's the other thing

30:22

most Americans don't know. Like, number one,

30:24

they're on the hamster wheel. All

30:26

those feelings of financial stress of

30:28

financial stress are. because we are printing

30:30

so much money, but then on the other

30:33

side, we have all this debt that's being

30:35

accrued that is enabled by the fact

30:37

that the Fed will always come in

30:39

print money and buy the debt.

30:41

But it's gonna get Harry here,

30:43

particularly this year. I mean, the big

30:45

meme at the end of last year

30:48

was the interest expense on the debt

30:50

surpassed military spending, but that's gonna

30:52

increase, I believe, like 10 to

30:54

20% in the first six months

30:56

of this year, just that interest

30:58

expense. And don't just doing great

31:00

work, but you're kind of like

31:03

running up a mountain, like your,

31:05

you know, interest expenses on debt,

31:07

growing the debt, like you

31:09

have to shave so much off

31:11

of our, like, off of our budgets

31:13

in order to even catch up

31:15

to the growing rate of how

31:17

fast we're falling behind, that I'm

31:19

glad that we're cutting all this like

31:22

total bullshit out of our, out of

31:24

our tax dollars, but it's like,

31:26

man, it just feels. Like we're definitely

31:28

too little too late and the

31:31

American dollar is just it's gonna die

31:33

Yeah, well, and that's the thing with

31:35

Doge too is if they were and

31:37

it looks like they are having a

31:39

material effect on how much taxpayer money

31:41

is being wasted But it could take the

31:44

market Six to twelve months to realize

31:46

that and like the problem with the

31:48

debt in the rollover the debt right

31:50

now is that the Treasury yields are

31:52

so high and so you're rolling that

31:54

over and the wrote a piece

31:56

about it last week at

31:59

$66 billion. 10-year treasuries that

32:01

rolled over last Saturday and when

32:03

they were issued 10 years ago

32:05

is at 2% and they're rolling

32:07

over at 4.5% and so that

32:09

alone added like 20 billion dollars

32:12

a month in interest expense payments.

32:14

Yeah, I'm really, 2 billion. Right,

32:16

I'm really curious, like there's

32:18

been talking of auditing the Fed

32:20

right now. There's talk of

32:23

visiting Fort Knox, like there's

32:25

talk of them actually examining

32:27

the fundamental. pieces of the the

32:30

Fiat scam. I've got a Fort

32:32

Knox tin foil out there. Yeah, you want

32:34

to go into it? Yeah, the gold's going

32:36

to be there. You think so? Yeah. Because

32:38

are you paying attention what's going

32:41

on with the gold markets right now?

32:43

No, no, what's going on? So I've

32:45

heard about gold moving from London,

32:47

Europe and London, right? Moving out

32:50

of London to the US and

32:52

Singapore. But that, it seems like

32:54

that's... What's happening right now

32:56

is a combination of tariffs

32:59

and an implementation of reserve

33:01

rules that goes live later

33:04

this summer from Basel

33:06

3 regulations. So backing

33:08

up from latter to former,

33:10

Basel 3, this new reserve

33:13

ratio, not requirement, but something

33:15

that's going to become

33:18

acceptable is using gold as

33:20

a fully reserved asset on

33:22

a bank's balance sheet. And

33:24

so many are surmising that

33:26

people are like, okay, I'd rather

33:29

use gold as a treasury

33:31

asset compared to these, compared

33:33

to US treasuries, which are

33:35

mostly the reserve assets in

33:37

the banking system. Right now,

33:40

and then tariffs as well,

33:42

the question is, if Trump's

33:44

going to go, and all these

33:46

tariffs, when you get our gold

33:48

in US borders before that

33:51

tariff begins to hinder our...

33:53

our payback on that gold or

33:55

how much we pay for having

33:57

that gold outside the US.

33:59

And so it's all been coming

34:01

from the LMBA and that there was

34:04

a complete run on that bullion deposit

34:06

and they've had to go to the

34:08

Bank of England, be like if we

34:10

borrow some year gold to facilitate these

34:13

withdrawals that are happening. And then similar

34:15

here in the US, people who have

34:17

gold futures contracts on the CME, you

34:20

can call those in kind and as

34:22

this is all going on. people in

34:24

the US with these futures contracts are

34:26

calling it in kind and the Comax

34:29

is having to facilitate the delivery of

34:31

that gold and the underlying assumption around

34:33

all this is that because of state

34:35

of US Treasury markets to dollar and

34:38

the geopolitical shit show that the world

34:40

is in is that you're going to

34:42

have this reversion to a hard asset

34:44

whether it's a global monetary system or

34:47

bifurcated global monetary system. So I think

34:49

the gold is going to be there

34:51

when they go to Fort Knox. Whether

34:53

it's been there the whole time, I

34:56

don't think it's been there the whole

34:58

time, but I would not be surprised.

35:00

Think of Donald Trump. He's not. He's

35:02

not. He's not going to want to.

35:05

He's not going to want to. He's

35:07

not going to. He's not going to

35:09

want to. He's not going to. He's

35:11

not going to signal. He's not going

35:14

to signal. He's not going to signal.

35:16

He's strong right. He's strong right. He's

35:18

strong right. I'm not smart enough or

35:21

connected enough to know how to verify

35:23

this or not, but I've been hearing

35:25

and seeing a lot of stuff about

35:27

China on a similar trajectory of just

35:30

hoarding gold right now too. China's been

35:32

buying a mask for 20 years. And

35:34

it feels like there's a certain element,

35:36

like this is, I'm kind of just

35:39

piecing this together right now, but when

35:41

the world went onto the US dollar

35:43

as the global reserve currency, it was...

35:45

after a state of extreme turmoil and

35:48

warfare all around the world. And so

35:50

there is this wide open playing field

35:52

for manipulation of political spaces for intelligence

35:54

agencies to kind of like consolidate, I

35:57

mean I guess they weren't exactly intelligence

35:59

at the time for the most part,

36:01

but just consolidation of power by the

36:03

powerful. to sort of put the federal

36:06

reserve system and the dollar supremacy into

36:08

place in a very orchestrated way. And

36:10

now we're really going through a currency

36:12

reset without so much of a, I

36:15

mean, COVID was a bit of a

36:17

global catastrophe, but it didn't exactly feel

36:19

like it put. one group of very

36:22

powerful men into a position to control

36:24

the entire rollout of the next system

36:26

in any way, right? And so it

36:28

kind of feels like a whole different

36:31

version of history repeating itself where people

36:33

are fighting for like we're realizing that

36:35

the Fiat experiment is failing and it's

36:37

all gonna burn sooner or later and

36:40

everyone is kind of running for the

36:42

hills to the next best to like

36:44

whatever currency system makes sense to them.

36:46

And I mean I'm very stoked that

36:49

country seems to be going to be

36:51

going. going gold. But I think I'm

36:53

probably personally going to go Bitcoin. Yeah,

36:55

for the most part. And I think

36:58

they will too, eventually as well. Yeah.

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unchained.com/TFTC yeah it's it's hard to know

37:59

exactly what's going on. There's so much,

38:01

like I had a, the, there's

38:03

so much, particularly with

38:05

this new Trump administration,

38:08

like doosh, it's like

38:10

yes, go in there, fire the

38:12

IRS agents. Thank you for finally

38:14

letting the world know the USAID

38:17

is a front for laundering money

38:19

on behalf of whatever political party

38:21

is in power in the US.

38:23

But then you have things like

38:26

Larry Ellison and Sam Altman being

38:28

like, we're going to deliver you

38:30

and MRNA specific vaccines for cancers.

38:32

You have Howard Latnick, like we're

38:34

going to buy equity in these

38:36

MRNA pharmaceutical companies. It's like, what? Yeah,

38:38

I had pretty low hopes for Trump

38:41

coming in despite voting for him, just

38:43

because like we've, I've never in my

38:45

lifetime had a politician enter the

38:47

Oval Office and do like a single effing

38:49

thing they said they would do. And almost

38:51

every time they do the exact opposite of

38:54

what they said they would do. Like Obama

38:56

is a great example with the 2008 banking

38:58

collapse. And so I really had relatively low

39:00

hopes for Trump, and I was going to

39:02

be happy if he even just appointed RFK

39:05

to where he said he would appoint him

39:07

at all. And so I'm almost more confused

39:09

by it looking like he's delivering on a

39:11

lot of his promises, especially with these other

39:14

really weird curveballs like that Larry Ellison conference

39:16

are talking about. It's like, like, like it's

39:18

very hard to figure to figure

39:20

out to figure out what to trust

39:22

and what is a play and

39:24

what is not, especially because Trump

39:26

plays dumb so often. And even when

39:29

he understands something, he often says things

39:31

in ways that sound really retarded.

39:33

That's like, but he's not always

39:35

actually as dumb as he sounds. And

39:37

so I'm very confused by what the

39:40

play is. And there was, I forget

39:42

exactly what it was. This

39:44

was a couple weeks ago, but he did

39:46

something and the media was like oh my

39:48

god look at it It's like you haven't

39:50

learned you've watched this guy for 10 years now

39:52

in the political realm obviously for he was

39:54

out of office for he was in and

39:56

then to leading up to that Like he has

39:58

a strategy which is I was like, I'm

40:01

going to say something completely insane. I'm

40:03

going to anchor like so far on

40:05

this end of the spectrum, see how

40:07

people react. And the Gaza thing he

40:09

said was a good example of that.

40:11

That's what I was talking about. Where

40:13

he started talking about, and that one

40:15

started a lot of a shitstorm in

40:18

my world too, where it's like, he

40:20

starts talking about the US occupying Gaza.

40:22

And at first, it's like, yeah, it's

40:24

kind of retarded, bro. Why would you

40:26

even say that? come out against that

40:28

plan and say no we will do

40:30

it which has always been the best

40:32

option is that like you need them

40:34

to take like you can't you know

40:36

terrorism is bred in poverty and and

40:39

just like you know if you leave

40:41

that destruction there you're never gonna solve

40:43

that problem you need to rebuild and

40:45

create prosperity for everybody so that way

40:47

you like there's you're not incentivizing more

40:49

conflict and the only way you do

40:51

that is with insane amounts of investment

40:53

and we don't want to come from

40:55

us it's inherently got to come from

40:57

them Although I did make a joke

41:00

that like, all right, and then in

41:02

30 years we have global jihad because

41:04

they are like, hey, we really still

41:06

hate those guys, because they bombed all

41:08

of us, and now we're strong. Well,

41:10

then we know that if the CIA

41:12

gets disbanded, they figured out a way

41:14

to keep the charade going. Yeah, exactly.

41:16

It's gonna, I mean, I'm super not

41:18

optimistic about what happens over in the

41:21

Middle East, but I'm also like, I

41:23

don't, really care that much anymore. It's

41:25

like we have so many problems here

41:27

that we need to be focusing on

41:29

taking care of our own and my

41:31

my perspective on that whole stuff is

41:33

basically just how can we get it

41:35

out of our stuff because there's so

41:37

much money being sent to Israel and

41:39

money being sent to Ukraine and that's

41:42

based on lobbying, that's based on corruption

41:44

coming in. It's not like we're doing

41:46

it because all of our politicians woke

41:48

up and were like, I want to

41:50

do this. They were incentivized, they were

41:52

lobbied, they were lobbied, they were blackmailed,

41:54

they were coerced with access and all

41:56

these other things. And so I talk

41:58

about that stuff a lot in the

42:00

Middle East, but it's mostly at this

42:03

point coming from this perspective of like,

42:05

Get us unentangled. Let us be sovereign.

42:07

It's a whole point of America. Washingtonian

42:09

of you. It's like George Washington's parting

42:11

thing. It was like, just stay focused

42:13

on what's happening here. Don't worry about

42:15

international. I mean, be diplomatic, but don't

42:17

worry about getting entangled in other people's

42:19

matters. And I mean, I'm sure we'll

42:21

never go back to that. Once you

42:24

become the global empire, you know, you're

42:26

always destined to be on that storyline.

42:28

I really see us as America being

42:30

in this trajectory now of we are

42:32

an empire unwinding. The question is how

42:34

do we want to unwind? Like do

42:36

we want to unwind like in a

42:38

blaze of glory and fire and like

42:40

and just screaming and kicking all the

42:42

way down or do we want to

42:45

try to be as graceful as possible

42:47

and like roll back our global control

42:49

and bring that prosperity back in and

42:51

because inherently I think when you lose

42:53

dollar supremacy when you lose global domination

42:55

of the oil markets when you lose

42:57

global supremacy and the intelligence services spaces

42:59

like not only do you have all

43:01

these enemies that have kind of been

43:03

latent and waiting and like under your

43:06

thumb for so long but you also

43:08

have all of these policies that have

43:10

sort of been propping up our American

43:12

monetary and like society in general. And

43:14

so I think we kind of need

43:16

all hands on deck here as the

43:18

empire kind of like collapses or unwinds

43:20

or if you want to call it,

43:22

we need as much positive growth and

43:24

movement here in order to sort of

43:27

fend off the inherent, you know, instability

43:29

we're going to face. Yeah, and I'm

43:31

very optimistic, but I mean, obviously, a

43:33

bit biased considering the nature of my

43:35

professional life and career, but I think,

43:37

like, like, I'm with you, ma'am. I'm

43:39

totally with you. Yeah, but if it

43:41

gets like history and like all the

43:43

dominant global reserve currencies that have risen

43:46

and fallen, like it's been hand, the

43:48

baton's been handed from one country to

43:50

another with periods of gold sort of

43:52

playing this a political reserve currency status

43:54

or for most of history it did,

43:56

but like the last, yeah, but like

43:58

the last 100, 150 years. years, maybe

44:00

200 years. It's been passed, the

44:02

baton's been passed from a country

44:05

to a country. But like, the US,

44:07

if there was ever a time to

44:09

have sort of destabilization of the empire

44:11

and a need to really get back

44:14

into the hole and focus

44:16

on rebuilding the homeland and

44:18

making sure American citizens have

44:20

dignity and the actual ability

44:23

to pull themselves up from

44:25

their boot straps and live

44:27

a relatively high quality of life.

44:29

It's now because I believe

44:31

this is still true like

44:34

per capita Americans

44:36

have the most. More than

44:38

El Salvador, huh? That makes

44:40

sense because El Salvador

44:42

is so poor. Yeah, yeah.

44:44

And like the other thing

44:47

is like industry like despite

44:49

the fact that the US

44:51

has expanded its empire and

44:53

gotten pretty weak lazy and

44:56

drunk on power abroad. I

44:58

do still think the Inherent

45:00

fire that lives in the bellies of individual

45:02

Americans, that American spirit of, fuck

45:04

you, I'm going to go build

45:06

this, still exists, and I think

45:08

it's personified in the industry. Yes, there's

45:11

a lot of shit coins, but

45:13

when it comes to, like, Bitcoin

45:15

companies, they're actually building the infrastructure

45:17

that people will use globally. I

45:19

think it's safe to say a lot

45:21

of that's happening here. So

45:23

we have a strategic advantage

45:25

from an industry perspective. in

45:27

the borders of the United

45:29

States and in the balance

45:31

sheets of individuals. And if they

45:33

just embrace Bitcoin, I think

45:35

it'll be fine. I mean,

45:37

I also, some of you

45:39

haven't really mentioned yet is

45:41

this, I'm really optimistic about

45:43

this shift that's about to

45:46

happen between the the old guard

45:48

and the young intelligent like rising

45:50

kind of gen X gen

45:52

and kind of millennial class

45:55

where It didn't really like I

45:57

think it didn't really dawn on most

45:59

Americans for the last 12, 15

46:01

years, whatever, just how geriatric our

46:03

leadership is and just how out

46:05

of touch with our reality is.

46:07

Exactly, right? And he just announced

46:10

that he's not running for a

46:12

term again. And I mean, and

46:14

I think that if what we hope

46:16

is happening with Trump and this

46:18

Doge and this purge and everything

46:20

happens, I'm I'm of the perspective that

46:22

that is going to basically force

46:25

a lot of resignations and sever

46:27

a lot of the sort of

46:29

incentives that have been keeping those

46:31

people in place. And I think

46:33

that there's a swelling rising class,

46:36

like all these technologies, be it

46:38

social media in the information space

46:40

or Bitcoin and crypto in the

46:42

kind of currency spaces, all these

46:44

different technologies, they incentivize

46:47

people to learn. the actual fundamentals

46:49

of these principles that we've taken

46:51

for granted for so long. And so

46:53

it's now incumbent upon every American to

46:56

understand how currency works because there's

46:58

no central bank doing it for us,

47:00

or we don't trust them. It's common

47:02

upon all of us to understand

47:04

the nature of how information spreads, how

47:07

disinformation spreads, how propaganda spreads, because now

47:09

all of our Twitter feeds, all

47:11

of our Instagram feeds are like just

47:13

overtly propagandized like... battle spaces, whereas it used

47:15

to be, oh, I just stressed the news

47:17

and I'll just watch the news. And so

47:20

there's like this rising generation of like Gen

47:22

X and down mostly are people that are

47:24

suddenly way more in tune with the like,

47:26

it's like we've leveled up in an understanding

47:28

of what it means to be a civilization

47:30

because everyone has been forced to be a

47:33

part of understanding of the solutions as they

47:35

decentralized more and more and more. And I

47:37

think as those people get into positions politically,

47:39

we sort of wind up in a future

47:41

that's like one step further towards

47:43

utopia, utopia, you know.

47:46

impossible utopia. Yeah. The

47:48

theoretical. No, and I think

47:50

the, like we're millennials.

47:52

Mm-hmm. I remember taking

47:55

the AOL CD out of

47:57

the out of the case and

47:59

putting into my gateway and downloading

48:01

the internet for the first

48:04

time and interacting with the

48:06

very cucked internet and then

48:09

the progression of the open web,

48:11

the web browser, Napster, things

48:13

like that, and the point of being

48:15

like 30 years of literally getting

48:18

introduced to the internet at

48:20

consumer scale. And again, similar

48:23

to Bitcoin where it's not

48:25

going to monetize overnight, I

48:27

think people's understanding of the

48:29

internet and how to properly

48:31

use it wasn't going to

48:33

happen overnight too. And I

48:36

think we're at a point where

48:38

the internet is certainly a double-edged

48:40

sword is a delusion of data

48:42

and noise that you have to

48:44

learn how to filter through, but

48:46

I think over decades people

48:48

like yourself, I'd like to

48:50

think myself have learned how

48:52

to filter and at least

48:54

decide which information is even worth

48:56

sort of... taking in and digesting

48:58

to to make a decision based

49:01

off of yeah yeah it's such

49:03

a double-edged sword like in the sense

49:05

that now everyone is like it used

49:07

to be that you wouldn't fall

49:10

into that wrong click like you

49:12

wouldn't fall into that wrong

49:14

like druggie click at school

49:16

unless they were around you

49:18

and that metaphorically applies to all

49:20

the kind of like things you

49:22

can find on the internet that

49:25

are bad for us, whether it's

49:27

like pornography or like gambling addictions

49:29

or like radical, just retarded ideas.

49:31

Now it's like everything is in

49:33

front of all of us. So

49:35

there is this element of, in

49:37

some ways, we have to take a

49:39

few steps backwards to take more steps

49:42

forwards because now we're all stuck in

49:44

all of the potential permutations of

49:46

information and outlet and

49:49

such. That's like forcing growth in all

49:51

people and lots of people are falling into

49:53

all these traps and kind of like falling

49:55

victim to the internet in a lot of

49:57

ways. But man is it sparking a lot.

49:59

of growth amongst the people that are

50:02

sort of like leveling up on

50:04

it. And I'm hoping I'm optimistic

50:06

that that is that that is

50:08

laying the groundwork for kids right

50:10

now for like Gen Alpha and

50:12

below watching their parents generation. and

50:14

seeing who fell into the traps

50:16

and how do we avoid them

50:18

and how do we like I

50:20

think that as we watch the

50:22

generational gap between our generations like

50:24

leaders that have learned to overcome

50:26

these problems and the generation below

50:28

us looking up to our leaders

50:30

I think that that's going to

50:32

be an amazing gap because those

50:34

are going to be kids that

50:37

grow up. with all the access

50:39

with role models that show them

50:41

how to navigate the second edge

50:43

of that sword. And I'm optimistic

50:45

that there will be some really

50:47

incredible leaders coming out of the

50:49

next generations below us. Yeah, this

50:51

is on that. I think about

50:53

a lot. I've got two young

50:55

boys and especially with the emergence

50:57

of AI. Yeah. At first it

50:59

was very scary. It still is

51:01

scary to an extent if open

51:03

source AI doesn't win, but I

51:05

think open source AI. is going

51:07

to win, but I've become, particularly

51:09

in the last six months, incredibly

51:11

excited about the prospect of leveraging

51:13

openLLM's and open AI and maybe

51:15

not self-hosting, but there's actually a

51:17

company out here, Open Secret, they

51:19

just released a private AI chat

51:22

bot called Maple.A.I. and Trimapel.a website.

51:24

But they've essentially created a way

51:26

where you can use secure enclaves

51:28

in the cloud even like on

51:30

an AWS, a GPU, a GPU

51:32

hosted on AWS, and you can

51:34

interact with an LLM, but it's

51:36

end-end encrypted in transit, and then

51:38

the data's computed on the secure

51:40

enclave, which the server can see,

51:42

the person running the server can

51:44

see, and Maple can see, so

51:46

you can create this extremely private

51:48

connection with these LLMs, and you.

51:50

can imagine a scenario where you

51:52

can, like, when I think about

51:54

my boys, I'm thinking about, like,

51:56

what curriculum? Like, I want to

51:58

create, like, a Roman tutor, like,

52:00

AI, that my boys interact with,

52:02

that they can just ask questions

52:05

about anything they're curious about. Yeah,

52:07

it opens up so many possibilities.

52:09

And not have Sam Altman spying

52:11

on them while they're doing it.

52:13

Bingo, or Jeff Basos, or whoever

52:15

it is, or whoever it is.

52:17

What is the constitution of the

52:19

web, which for some reason we

52:21

still don't have, long overdue, some

52:23

form of just, and it's a

52:25

touchy subject because like, the constitute,

52:27

a good constitution of rights for

52:29

citizens on the web is just

52:31

one small step away from regulating

52:33

the internet and controlling everybody. And

52:35

I think we have, all know,

52:37

there's plenty of people that would

52:39

love to regulate the internet and

52:41

control everybody, but. this sort of

52:43

like bottom up solutions for privacy

52:45

rather than top down is are

52:47

so exciting because at every single

52:50

time that one of these bottom

52:52

up solutions like Bitcoin for example

52:54

is invented it just you never

52:56

go back behind that threshold like

52:58

once open source LLLMs are out

53:00

there you can't like what are

53:02

you gonna do like take over

53:04

the whole world and destroy every

53:06

computer running an open source LLC.

53:08

Like, it's never going to happen.

53:10

So that genies out of the

53:12

bag. And as more and more

53:14

of these genies that empower regular

53:16

people and protect regular people, I

53:18

would let out of the bag,

53:20

technologically speaking, I'd get more and

53:22

more optimistic that we're not, you

53:24

know, we should always be vigilant

53:26

about sort of the technocratic worst

53:28

case scenario that a lot of

53:30

people are vying for. I'm getting

53:32

more and more optimistic that we're

53:35

going to, you know, graze right

53:37

past it past it past it

53:39

past it past it and wind

53:41

up somewhere and wind up somewhere,

53:43

and wind up somewhere. Somewhere in

53:45

the middle won't be utopia, but

53:47

it will certainly be better than

53:49

there's a lot of doomers online

53:51

right now I interact with a

53:53

lot of doomers in the kind

53:55

of Conteracy space that are like

53:57

it's they're just gonna like they're

53:59

gonna have your AI they're gonna

54:01

have your prints and they're gonna

54:03

have your biometrics and they're gonna

54:05

like have brain chips in you

54:07

and they're gonna control everything and

54:09

they'll know everything. Yeah that's what

54:11

they want but. Well they get

54:13

it. Yeah I don't think so.

54:15

Another question and again if you

54:17

zoom out look at the progression

54:20

of the internet I think when

54:22

you mentioned like a constitution of

54:24

the internet I think the cipher

54:26

punks had it right which is

54:28

like you don't need a constitution

54:30

it's like we are cipher punks

54:32

we write code. We're going to

54:34

plant our flag in some uncharted

54:36

territory in the digital landscape and

54:38

make technologies that are so good

54:40

and are so powerful, equally as

54:42

powerful for the individual and the

54:44

nation-state that it's going to be

54:46

impossible. We had this in the

54:48

90s with the PGP wars. We

54:50

had to go through a war

54:52

to all the way to the

54:54

Supreme Court about the legitimacy of

54:56

individuals' access to PGP, pretty good

54:58

privacy technology. Similarly, like we've seen

55:00

it, like, and that's the beauty

55:02

of it too, like, if you

55:05

don't have privacy on the web,

55:07

the individuals obviously at a disadvantage,

55:09

but so are the large nation

55:11

states and large corporations, like they

55:13

don't want their data getting access

55:15

and hacked as well. Yeah, well

55:17

said. And so we've seen this

55:19

progression from HTTP to HTTPS, where

55:21

in transit everything's encrypted. and that

55:23

I just recorded with these guys,

55:25

so it's top of mine. The

55:27

next progression is the data that's

55:29

not encrypted is the data sitting

55:31

on all these cloud servers across

55:33

the world. And now with the

55:35

progression of secure enclave technology, like

55:37

we can begin to move to

55:39

a standard where you can have

55:41

the cloud servers with secure enclaves

55:43

and the server simply just run

55:45

the compute, but they can't see.

55:48

They put the firmware or the

55:50

software in the chip. It does

55:52

a certain thing. People can access

55:54

that software, but they can't see

55:56

what people are doing with it.

55:58

They just know the computations are

56:00

happening. Yeah, it's. you actually put

56:02

it really well in the context

56:04

from the start here talking about

56:06

digital constitutions and that is why

56:08

I love Bitcoin so much is

56:10

because there's this sort of old

56:12

mentality which I kind of slipped

56:14

into again there's this old mentality

56:16

of like we need an arbitrary

56:18

solution to our problems like write

56:20

down on this piece of paper

56:22

our arbitrary solutions these rules we're

56:24

going to follow so that everyone

56:26

is taken care of but the

56:28

beauty of technology is that code

56:30

is immutable. And so you don't

56:33

need to write down an arbitrary

56:35

solution on paper when we have

56:37

the ability to encode a real

56:39

solution that is immutable. And Bitcoin

56:41

is like the perfect example of

56:43

like don't ask the government for

56:45

a currency that will not be

56:47

the dollar. Just go build it

56:49

with technology coded in and then

56:51

everyone has trust because that's the

56:53

nature of math. Like math is

56:55

math. And we're getting and it's

56:57

cool to watch like kind of

56:59

the whatever. they're not really cypher

57:01

punks anymore, but like, the evolution

57:03

of the cypher punks, like the

57:05

communities that have spawned out of

57:07

the early days, and how all

57:09

these different communities are working on

57:11

all these different solutions that slowly

57:13

are encoding more and more of

57:15

the things we needed solutions for,

57:18

finding ways to put them straight

57:20

into code and skip this layer

57:22

of like, we need an intermediary

57:24

to hold the rules down. Yeah.

57:26

I mean, to the point of

57:28

the corporations need as well, like

57:30

that, there's a new VPN that

57:32

launch called Obscura. created a new

57:34

way, new architecture, so we download

57:36

a VPN, typically you turn on

57:38

your VPN and you get old

57:40

website and you send that information

57:42

to the VPN, then it goes

57:44

to the website, the VPN knows,

57:46

your IP obviously, and you're trusting

57:48

that they're not doxing your information

57:50

to the CIA. Yeah, that, and

57:52

I don't trust that. Obscura, what

57:54

they've basically created is almost like

57:56

a tour-like hop system with. Two

57:58

nodes. You send it to the

58:00

first node, it knows your IP, but

58:03

not the information you're trying

58:05

to access, and then that sends

58:07

to the second node, it knows

58:09

what you're trying to access, but

58:11

doesn't know your IP, and sends it

58:13

off to the web. And this was

58:15

actually a design architecture that

58:18

Apple open source for their

58:20

iCloud, secure iCloud, architecture, actually

58:22

got adopted. And the reason I trust

58:25

is because it got adopted by

58:27

the IEFT or IETF, which is like... People

58:29

literally working on like the HTTPS

58:32

layer of the internet like they

58:34

adopted it into their protocol because

58:36

it's a secure and Apple made

58:39

it that way so that they Could secure

58:41

their users data. I mean love them

58:43

right? I mean Apple's done a good job

58:45

of Actually like leading the way

58:47

in security in a lot of ways

58:50

Yeah, they were the first of the secure

58:52

enclave on the phone I believe

58:54

exactly But we're getting too optimistic

58:56

into to Not vigilant enough. What

58:59

do you think we have to

59:01

look out for with this administration?

59:03

Great points, dude. I'm actually intending

59:05

to make a lot of content

59:07

about this in the coming months.

59:10

Because a lot of, like I'm

59:12

in like the journalism space, kind

59:14

of the conspiracy theory

59:16

space, more so than any

59:18

other, like individual niche. And in

59:20

my world, there's an awful lot

59:22

of people that are saying the same

59:24

things as me today. But they are

59:26

just like Trump fans. They're just

59:29

on team this team And that's

59:31

not really journalism. That's not what

59:33

journalism is for and that's not

59:36

what like that's just partisan

59:38

hype And the whole point of

59:40

journalism is to hold the powerful

59:42

to account and no matter how

59:44

idealistic Trump or RFK or Elon

59:46

or any of them really are

59:48

in their hearts They represent a

59:51

nexus of power so vast that

59:53

there's just going to be infinite

59:55

vultures and interests and you know

59:57

people coming in trying to do all

59:59

sorts. that things that we do

1:00:01

not want. And so regardless of how

1:00:03

optimistic someone is about Trump or Elon

1:00:06

or whatever the plan is, or you

1:00:08

know, you should, we should be vigilant because

1:00:10

the plan can be subverted even

1:00:12

if all the people enacting the

1:00:15

plan are truly perfect, which they're

1:00:17

not. As you know, the whole

1:00:19

Ashley St. Clair drama clearly helps

1:00:21

remind us of, and his video

1:00:23

gaming scandal and all these other

1:00:26

scandals. And so I think. I mean,

1:00:28

I defer to people like Whitney

1:00:30

Webb on this one in the

1:00:32

sense that she's into her guns

1:00:34

for a long time about the

1:00:37

technocratic sort of like oligarch class

1:00:39

and how they're walking us further

1:00:41

and further towards sort of

1:00:43

the digital version of you'll own

1:00:46

nothing and be happy, like the not

1:00:48

like in terms of our assets, but

1:00:50

in terms of our digital

1:00:52

lives. and there's an awful

1:00:54

lot of money and projects swirling

1:00:56

around in sort of like the

1:00:59

Peter Thiel Palantir military surveillance

1:01:01

systems world that Trump is

1:01:03

very taken in by he's

1:01:05

very very with Elon just tweeted

1:01:07

yesterday about how Palantir had integrated

1:01:10

Grock 3 into it and was

1:01:12

like great Palantiers to shit and

1:01:14

it's like no they're not dude

1:01:16

no they're not and they're not

1:01:19

and uh... All of there's a

1:01:21

common thread that ties a lot

1:01:23

of these problem companies or problem visions

1:01:25

together and it's the concept

1:01:27

of pre-crime. And Palantir is

1:01:29

a big player in pre-crime

1:01:31

and so are a lot of

1:01:34

Israeli tech firms for a long

1:01:36

time and it's this push towards

1:01:38

and the problem just like a

1:01:40

lot of what took liberalism off

1:01:42

the rails in the last 10

1:01:44

years is that pre-crime conceptually is

1:01:46

built on a great concept. Like

1:01:48

yeah. Ideally, if, like, the elevator pitch

1:01:50

of, what if you could stop all

1:01:52

crime before it happened? Like, what if

1:01:55

you could stop bad things from happening?

1:01:57

That'd be amazing. Like, duh. But, at

1:01:59

what cost? And there's never a

1:02:01

way to predictively police that is

1:02:03

not based upon mass surveillance

1:02:05

and control. That's like the

1:02:07

most deeply Orwellian thing in the

1:02:09

world. And it's the most anti-American

1:02:12

thing you could ever conceive

1:02:14

of. But because Americans are so

1:02:16

cluttered with information, so bogged down

1:02:18

by debt and fear and stress,

1:02:21

so distracted by sports and entertainment

1:02:23

and music and such, that we're

1:02:25

not noticing that it's actually already

1:02:27

being implemented in places like our

1:02:30

schools like there are already school

1:02:32

like shooter alert systems that are

1:02:34

getting integrated into our public schools

1:02:36

that that ostensibly are to prevent

1:02:39

mass shootings but they actually are allowing

1:02:41

backdoor access to these same companies to

1:02:43

all sorts of data all sorts of

1:02:45

surveillance that No one ever consented to.

1:02:47

Same thing is happening with our emergency

1:02:50

response systems. Carbine 911 is a company

1:02:52

that is actually Jeffrey Epstein affiliated. Yeah,

1:02:54

Whitney's talked about this on the show

1:02:56

before. Yeah, Whitney's really, I mean, like

1:02:58

Whitney is my primary source on this

1:03:01

stuff, and if it weren't for Whitney's

1:03:03

reporting, I would hardly even know where

1:03:05

to start and digging into this stuff,

1:03:07

and she's a great lead generator for how

1:03:10

to start to learn about this whole scope

1:03:12

of companies that are. basically trying to

1:03:14

create minority report in real life. And

1:03:16

that's deeply troubling. And I'm far more

1:03:18

optimistic than like the Whitney webs and

1:03:20

Derek roses of this world and we've,

1:03:23

you know, fought online about it a

1:03:25

lot because I just I feel like

1:03:27

though that is a serious risk, I

1:03:29

feel like the American and the human

1:03:31

spirit is greater in the exact same

1:03:33

way that COVID, I feel pretty

1:03:35

strongly that COVID was supposed to

1:03:37

be much worse. It was supposed

1:03:39

to be much more profitable for

1:03:41

those that profited. It was supposed

1:03:43

to be much more totalitarian for

1:03:45

those that were in stating totalitarian

1:03:48

policies. And I think it was supposed to

1:03:50

last much longer with more effect in the

1:03:52

most like evil little pockets of

1:03:54

conspiratorial people like their minds.

1:03:56

I'm not trying to say that like the whole

1:03:58

world was in on it. That's one

1:04:00

thing I'm looking for in

1:04:02

terms of validation one way or

1:04:05

the other, like all right, are

1:04:07

they actually here to help? Is

1:04:09

like if they go, because

1:04:11

we had Kevin McKernan on who's

1:04:14

been doing a lot of

1:04:16

research into the Jabs and

1:04:18

particularly turbo cancers and it

1:04:21

leaking into DNA and

1:04:23

we discussed a study that came

1:04:25

out of Japan earlier this week

1:04:27

or last week. that basically

1:04:29

highlighted excess deaths in

1:04:31

Japan. Wasn't only post-covid.

1:04:34

Actually in 2020 excess deaths

1:04:36

went down and it wasn't

1:04:38

until the jab started getting

1:04:40

rolled out that they went

1:04:42

up significantly higher than it was

1:04:45

when they had the tsunami in 2011.

1:04:47

And if you look at the

1:04:49

cumulative deaths of people who died

1:04:51

from COVID but could likely attribute

1:04:54

to the jab taking them out

1:04:56

early. with the people who died

1:04:58

of cancer bigger than Hiroshima, loss

1:05:00

of life. And I think the

1:05:03

signal, the smoking gun, that

1:05:05

really connects the jab as the

1:05:07

main cause of this increase in

1:05:09

cancers, particularly is that

1:05:12

the distribution of cancers

1:05:14

that existed pre-jab versus

1:05:17

post-jab completely changed.

1:05:19

And the post-jab

1:05:21

cancer distribution is in

1:05:23

areas of the body of the

1:05:25

body. congregating after I got injected.

1:05:28

And I think to me, they

1:05:30

ripped the paper off the peer

1:05:32

review server that it was sitting

1:05:34

on. I don't know if it

1:05:36

was because we released the episode

1:05:39

yesterday, Logan, but you're going to

1:05:41

do everything they can to fight

1:05:43

for their last breath. That's like,

1:05:45

and there was a lead up to

1:05:47

with Maha, like that was a big

1:05:50

thing, and that's again trying to validate

1:05:52

one way or the other, was RFK's

1:05:54

change and framing of Maha as a

1:05:57

movement of like preventative health. Let's get

1:05:59

all this. out the food, let's get

1:06:01

kids working out, let's take out all

1:06:03

these bad prescriptions. He really didn't talk

1:06:05

about. They played really coy around his

1:06:07

vaccine stance during the media craze. Like

1:06:10

was that like a hey shut up,

1:06:12

we'll let you get in if you

1:06:14

don't talk about this or was that

1:06:16

like a strategic, I'm not gonna kick

1:06:18

the horn and sness until I get

1:06:21

in and then go after them's. And

1:06:23

his very first speech just like entering

1:06:25

into HHS, like maybe almost a week

1:06:27

now. I've made me very optimistic. He

1:06:29

didn't come in and kind of like

1:06:31

tread lightly. He came in and I

1:06:34

mean, he was very pro-science. He was

1:06:36

very, he wasn't like my way or

1:06:38

the highway. I'm firing all of you

1:06:40

if you don't agree with what I

1:06:42

say, but he was very, we're going

1:06:44

to agree with what I say, but

1:06:47

he was very, we're going to study

1:06:49

it all and we're going to actually

1:06:51

go there and it sounds like it's.

1:06:53

But I'm with you, it's like we

1:06:55

are far from having enough evidence to

1:06:57

be sure that they are delivering on

1:07:00

those promises, but I'm optimistic based upon

1:07:02

what I've seen so far. But the

1:07:04

thing that I, the fundamental difference of

1:07:06

opinion I think between someone like myself

1:07:08

and Whitney Webb in terms of technology

1:07:11

applies here as well in that we

1:07:13

are not powerless actors. We are the

1:07:15

American public and we have more voice

1:07:17

now than we've ever had in all

1:07:19

of our history and we've seen on

1:07:21

this campaign trail in multiple cases how

1:07:24

our our loud voices can shift their

1:07:26

political decision making in real time very

1:07:28

quickly because there's never been a campaign

1:07:30

more tuned in to public sentiment than

1:07:32

this one. And if we all just

1:07:34

black pill on like, no one's ever

1:07:37

going to go to jail from the

1:07:39

vaccines, they're not even going to hold

1:07:41

anyone accountable. We are allowing them to

1:07:43

get away with not holding anyone accountable.

1:07:45

You're almost manifesting it. Exactly. Whereas if

1:07:47

we are loud and we're unwavering and

1:07:50

we are calling for a full investigation.

1:07:52

and full trials and full punishment for

1:07:54

everything that if we accept nothing less

1:07:56

than that I feel very strongly that

1:07:58

we're in a position to actually get

1:08:01

it from this administration during these four

1:08:03

years but even if even if they

1:08:05

don't deliver on all those promises that

1:08:07

is no reason for us to stop

1:08:09

then we just vote them all out

1:08:11

and vote in someone that'll do better

1:08:14

the next time like we I think

1:08:16

that we're at this phase where we

1:08:18

have as much power as we take

1:08:20

which I mean that's kind of a

1:08:22

ridiculous thing to say but It's a

1:08:24

good heuristic to live by right now

1:08:27

because if you don't take the opportunity

1:08:29

it'll pass you right by. I mean

1:08:31

that's my co-host on the show that

1:08:33

I'll be recording after this madadog. I

1:08:35

mean that's one of the lines he's

1:08:37

been trying to beat in the people's

1:08:40

heads for the seven years he's been

1:08:42

doing the show is that freedom isn't

1:08:44

given, it's taken and defended. So you

1:08:46

literally have to go take it, and

1:08:48

defend, pre-crime. Pre-crime. AI, whatever, maybe financial

1:08:51

surveillance or you have the open source

1:08:53

option that allows you to actually defend

1:08:55

these digital rights of freedom, security, privacy,

1:08:57

all that. Yeah, and I wonder a

1:08:59

lot if, like, I assume that in

1:09:01

a lot of those debates, we're eventually

1:09:04

going to have to wind up in

1:09:06

some sort of uncomfortable middle compromise for

1:09:08

some of them, though I'd... Maybe I'm

1:09:10

just naive and there actually are digital

1:09:12

solutions that can essentially code beyond the

1:09:14

intricacies and actually encode best possible solutions

1:09:17

that don't require us to compromise. But

1:09:19

the example that I'm always rolling over

1:09:21

in my head that's really unpopular to

1:09:23

talk about online is digital ID. Because

1:09:25

for example, just this last week, the

1:09:27

exposure of... multiple Twitter accounts that were,

1:09:30

seemed like subversive actors, like intentional plants

1:09:32

within the conservative movement, this patriarchal Hannah

1:09:34

account, that's like a fake trad wife,

1:09:36

you heard about her at all? This

1:09:38

is a, she's a account that was

1:09:41

faceless and had posted a few photos

1:09:43

occasionally that are turning out to be

1:09:45

random Facebook photos. And she presented as

1:09:47

like this Trad wife with 12 kids

1:09:49

that was like, like women should be

1:09:51

subservient to men, like women are belonging

1:09:54

to home and like, like very super

1:09:56

Trad conservative. But then it came out

1:09:58

little by little by little and then

1:10:00

it broke all at once that actually

1:10:02

she has no, she doesn't have kids,

1:10:04

she's not married, she is 400 pounds

1:10:07

and she does like fat kink porn.

1:10:09

And she's like simultaneously running this dual

1:10:11

life and is clearly a subversive actor

1:10:13

that has been infiltrating the conservative movement

1:10:15

because it's faceless, right? Yeah, raw alerts

1:10:18

is another good example. And that one's

1:10:20

a little murky in terms of like,

1:10:22

I guess, I guess no, I guess

1:10:24

no, so it, it's coming a little

1:10:26

murky in terms of like, I guess,

1:10:28

no, so it's coming out that I

1:10:31

believe that raw alerts, what you do

1:10:33

with your sex life in your personal

1:10:35

time, if you're not hurting kids, if

1:10:37

you're like, if you're like, if you're

1:10:39

like, That, but I don't care. I

1:10:41

don't have any judgment form in a

1:10:44

personal way, but I think it came

1:10:46

out that he was running a bunch

1:10:48

of Antifa accounts, and that is like

1:10:50

political subversion straight up. And all of

1:10:52

that comes from the fact that they

1:10:54

are anonymous. But I don't want to,

1:10:57

I'm not advocating for no anonymity online.

1:10:59

It's just this like questioning balance of

1:11:01

like, how do you know what's real?

1:11:03

And that's not even to mention AI

1:11:05

video at this point, and the way

1:11:08

that we're very quickly going to have

1:11:10

like. AI, I mean AI influencers already

1:11:12

exist and AI porn already exists and

1:11:14

AI politicians are already popping up and

1:11:16

running scam coins on like YouTube every

1:11:18

day. And so there's this element of

1:11:21

digital ID that we're going to need

1:11:23

a solution for it but we actually

1:11:25

be so careful about what those solutions

1:11:27

are and what are the long-term complex

1:11:29

implications once you take the first solution

1:11:31

and you walk it down through three

1:11:34

iterations of like subversion and you know

1:11:36

subversion and you know subversion and power

1:11:38

on it, it's like how is that

1:11:40

going to play out? And that's where

1:11:42

I get concerned. And I think that's

1:11:44

where like a person like Whitney is

1:11:47

rightly very concerned is that there's so

1:11:49

many opportunities for us to get fooled

1:11:51

into thinking we've got a solution that's

1:11:53

actually just a slippery slope into totalitarianism.

1:11:55

But I'm optimistic that the human spirit

1:11:58

will, will win out in the end.

1:12:00

It's just going to be a crazy

1:12:02

wild ride on the way there. Yeah.

1:12:04

And is it in the whole, so

1:12:06

a couple things in this first, I

1:12:08

think digital ID. That issue is going

1:12:11

to be forced at the border. If

1:12:13

we're going to get rugged by the

1:12:15

Trump administration, it's like, we need to

1:12:17

secure the border, we need this digital

1:12:19

ID. That's where I think it's going

1:12:21

to come in. And then too, the

1:12:24

whole, the whole, I think framing is

1:12:26

important. That's what Bitcoin has really been

1:12:28

focusing on for the last 15 years,

1:12:30

is like, how do you frame Bitcoin?

1:12:32

And you need to own the frame

1:12:34

to ultimately win the battle where you're

1:12:37

trying to fight. who were worried about

1:12:39

the digital ID battle that is upon

1:12:41

us, whether you recognize it or not,

1:12:43

we need to own the frame of

1:12:45

a digital ID, like what is it,

1:12:48

an identity? Because your, like an identity

1:12:50

is very personal, it's like literally down

1:12:52

to your soul, like I am me,

1:12:54

and you can't tell me that I'm

1:12:56

not who I am, like this is

1:12:58

my identity, I own it. So I

1:13:01

think the frame should be, and there

1:13:03

are protocols, nosters, suit anonymous, but there

1:13:05

was a protocol, they got built, they

1:13:07

got built, They stopped working on it

1:13:09

internally, but it blocked Web 5. I've

1:13:11

talked to one of the lead developers

1:13:14

there, his name is Daniel, but the

1:13:16

point being setting the frame of if

1:13:18

it is deemed necessary to have some

1:13:20

form of digital ID, individuals should be

1:13:22

able to create the idea. It should

1:13:24

not be issued to them by a

1:13:27

government. You should be able to tap

1:13:29

into a protocol. Web 5 is one

1:13:31

of them. Nosters. And I guess that's

1:13:33

the whole debate. Do we actually need

1:13:35

like, do we actually need like? Digital

1:13:38

ID where you know my full name

1:13:40

my address all that and I think

1:13:42

what Noster is experimenting with is this

1:13:44

pseudonymous online identity with web of trust

1:13:46

social credit scores, if you will. What's

1:13:48

going to win out in the long

1:13:51

run? Is it something where you actually

1:13:53

have to tie your name, address, social

1:13:55

security number to the internet? I don't

1:13:57

like that idea. And I think it's

1:13:59

going to be, the onus is going

1:14:01

to be on the people building up

1:14:04

protocols like Noster, maybe web 5, something

1:14:06

else to really... build the tools to

1:14:08

give people certainty that you can trust

1:14:10

this web of trust and this this

1:14:12

this score on this identity system and

1:14:15

it should be it should be valid

1:14:17

enough and meet space to give people

1:14:19

comfortability if you're interacting with somebody like

1:14:21

hey look at my my noster web

1:14:23

of trust social score. Yeah choice is

1:14:25

so important there in the sense that

1:14:28

the dystopian view of digital ID is

1:14:30

this forced digital ID that is issued

1:14:32

to you by the government and then

1:14:34

is you are forced to use for

1:14:36

everything and that obviously is like the

1:14:38

worst case scenario and but but there's

1:14:41

a very there's definitely like a gray

1:14:43

area of very workable versions of that

1:14:45

where as long as I have the

1:14:47

choice to like I create my Twitter

1:14:49

account that is a digital ID and

1:14:51

I own that you know digital identity

1:14:54

and it's only valid because of the

1:14:56

web trust that you're referring to it.

1:14:58

as those, as the sort of like,

1:15:00

some sort of official digital ID system

1:15:02

is enacted, whether it's like through social

1:15:05

media situations or through our banking situation,

1:15:07

whatever it is, as long as, as

1:15:09

long as I'm not forced to use

1:15:11

it, where I don't want to use

1:15:13

it, I think those are workable solutions,

1:15:15

probably. But the thing is that when

1:15:18

I picture a digital ID system rolling

1:15:20

out, whether it's from our government, our

1:15:22

banking system, whatever it is. They're going

1:15:24

to try to get us to use

1:15:26

it for everything. Like they're going to

1:15:28

try so our government gives me digital

1:15:31

ID. The bank is going to try

1:15:33

to link my bank account to it.

1:15:35

The school system is going to try

1:15:37

to link my school system to it.

1:15:39

The HOA is going to try to

1:15:41

get my digital ID linked to my

1:15:44

housing situation. And the only thing that

1:15:46

could stop that power creep of everyone

1:15:48

wanting, because more data is more power.

1:15:50

If you could get access to everyone's

1:15:52

digital ID, even if you're like, you

1:15:55

know, a little organization, a business, a

1:15:57

coffee shop, whatever, that's value at. If

1:15:59

I can get your digital ID at

1:16:01

my coffee shop, then I have more

1:16:03

data with which to like sell your

1:16:05

data to do whatever, you know. And

1:16:08

I think the onus at a certain

1:16:10

point has to fall to us to

1:16:12

say no. And like if a bank

1:16:14

starts to say, I'll only give you

1:16:16

a bank count, if you give me

1:16:18

your digital ID, is to say no,

1:16:21

I'm not going to use your digital

1:16:23

ID, I'm not going to use your

1:16:25

bank, I'm not going to use your

1:16:27

bank, I'm not going to use your

1:16:29

bank. I'll go use Bitcoin or I'll

1:16:31

go use this other bank. And so

1:16:34

I'm hoping that we're all like aware

1:16:36

of the complexity and problems enough that

1:16:38

by the time these systems start being

1:16:40

put in front of us and they

1:16:42

start trying to link us into all

1:16:45

of their little webs of identification that

1:16:47

we have enough awareness of the market

1:16:49

of ideas to say no if we

1:16:51

demand a bank that won't link our

1:16:53

digital ID. someone will create that in

1:16:55

the free market, right? Or whatever. Bitcoin

1:16:58

or ISIS. Exactly, right? Just send me

1:17:00

a Bitcoin address. Perfect example of it.

1:17:02

Yeah, and yeah, I mean, we already

1:17:04

had, I guess, a trial run with

1:17:06

the vaccine passport. Exactly. That's going to

1:17:08

get too well. Yeah, and that was,

1:17:11

I mean, such a good example. The

1:17:13

perfect training is there's an awful lot

1:17:15

of people that were, I'm not going

1:17:17

to get vaccinated. And then when they

1:17:19

started to give out the vaccine cards

1:17:21

and the vaccine cards in the vaccine

1:17:24

cards and the vaccine cards and the

1:17:26

vaccine passports, you had three classes of

1:17:28

three classes of people, you had three

1:17:30

classes of people that said, That's don't

1:17:32

be that guy. Then we had the

1:17:35

class of people that were like all

1:17:37

right off game this system I know

1:17:39

someone that can give me a fake

1:17:41

fake passport like I like those guys

1:17:43

those guys are fun and then there's

1:17:45

the people this is what I was

1:17:48

that are just like conscientious objectors that

1:17:50

are like no I'm not going into

1:17:52

your store and where I was living

1:17:54

at the time was like a super

1:17:56

liberal town I basically didn't go anywhere

1:17:58

for two years years because I couldn't.

1:18:01

And it was just a form of

1:18:03

protest. It's like, cool. I won't go

1:18:05

to any of your businesses. I will

1:18:07

just go to the gym that lets

1:18:09

me go in because they're awesome. And

1:18:12

I'll give them all my patronage and

1:18:14

I'll love them forever. And I'll go

1:18:16

to the one grocery store where they're

1:18:18

okay with me going in with that.

1:18:20

And it's like, and that's all I

1:18:22

need. And then I remembered all the

1:18:25

businesses that were super heavy on the

1:18:27

vaccine passports during COVID. And I never

1:18:29

went to them again. Part of the

1:18:31

reason I'm in Texas. Bingo. Same. I

1:18:33

was in an area where the vaccine,

1:18:35

like we we left New York to

1:18:38

the Jersey Shore early in COVID, like

1:18:40

March 6th, I believe 2020, we evacuated

1:18:42

Brooklyn. We ended up in Cape May

1:18:44

County, New Jersey, which is pretty based.

1:18:46

We were living on this island town.

1:18:48

It was fine. Like the restaurants didn't

1:18:51

even up. like mask mandates or anything,

1:18:53

but got to the point where we

1:18:55

tell we were there for two weeks

1:18:57

to flatten the curve. It turned into

1:18:59

the better part of two years and

1:19:02

at the end we had a son,

1:19:04

I had a career that I was

1:19:06

like I can't live in this beach

1:19:08

house, do everything. And not many young

1:19:10

people on the island outside of the

1:19:12

summer months and Philadelphia. Where I'm from

1:19:15

like the... The passports were a big

1:19:17

thing and I was like, I don't

1:19:19

know if I can do it, so

1:19:21

we're gonna go to Texas for a

1:19:23

few years. Yeah, I was just thinking

1:19:25

about it driving through Austin here too,

1:19:28

how there's this sentiment in Texas in

1:19:30

general, and in the Austin area too,

1:19:32

especially, of like all you people coming

1:19:34

in here, it's getting all big, it's

1:19:36

crazy, it's like, it's out of control,

1:19:38

like just leave Texas, Texas, and yeah,

1:19:41

I totally get it and I hear

1:19:43

you and I hear you and I

1:19:45

hear you and don't worry, and I

1:19:47

hear you and I hear you and

1:19:49

don't worry, and I'll be leaving. I

1:19:52

think that all the people coming to

1:19:54

Austin are actually making it more and

1:19:56

more and more based and red. And

1:19:58

I think that all the Texans that

1:20:00

have this issue with non- Texans moving

1:20:02

here, it's like California's don't move here,

1:20:05

I think that actually you want more

1:20:07

of them. to Austin, because Austin before

1:20:09

this, this exodus from all these other

1:20:11

places, Austin was the weirdest place in

1:20:13

Texas because of the university, largely, and

1:20:15

because of the culture that had kind

1:20:18

of grown up in Austin is my

1:20:20

impression of what it is. And now

1:20:22

there's this exodus of people that are

1:20:24

extremely based from all around the country

1:20:26

that are fed up with everywhere else

1:20:28

that know it's important to fight for

1:20:31

our freedoms and fight for what's right

1:20:33

and liberty, like, like, like Bitcoin, like

1:20:35

yourself that are. flooding to Austin because

1:20:37

it's a hub of this kind of

1:20:39

new media markets of all these great

1:20:42

things happening and I think it's probably

1:20:44

a serious net red for Austin ironically

1:20:46

to this sort of like Texan sentiment.

1:20:48

I think the rest of Texas maybe

1:20:50

not but to Austin for sure. I

1:20:52

mean. Excuse me, I'm sure you felt

1:20:55

the energy in the city is palpable.

1:20:57

Yeah, it's electric. I love it. It's

1:20:59

going on here in Bitcoin. We've got

1:21:01

Rogan's comedy. Yeah, I went down there

1:21:03

the other, like a week ago for

1:21:05

the first time, it was great. Yeah,

1:21:08

you've got that like cultural side of

1:21:10

things really building up. And then obviously

1:21:12

you've got like the tech sector more

1:21:14

broadly, like Tesla, Space X is now

1:21:16

moving. I mean in the media space

1:21:18

too, like in my world, in my

1:21:21

world, in my world, in the podcasting

1:21:23

world, in the podcasting world, More podcasts

1:21:25

since I've been in Austin than I

1:21:27

have in all of my journeys so

1:21:29

far around the country and like so

1:21:32

far this year and half of last

1:21:34

year It's just it's unreal how many

1:21:36

great people I'm meeting and how many

1:21:38

awesome projects there are and a lot

1:21:40

of them are interconnected and know each

1:21:42

other in great ways And a lot

1:21:45

of them are also just like there's

1:21:47

all these different bubbles of cool people

1:21:49

here doing cool things. Yes, so fun

1:21:51

It's a very health conscious city as

1:21:53

well. Ranches, there's raw milk. Yep. Yeah,

1:21:55

I haven't found my raw milk connection

1:21:58

yet, but I will. What, you've been

1:22:00

doing a lot on info wars? Yeah,

1:22:02

yeah, no, I just, I just love

1:22:04

those guys. There's so much fun. And

1:22:06

when I, I'm not like, none of

1:22:09

it's paid, it's just like podcast experiences

1:22:11

essentially, but they're just. such homies, so

1:22:13

like I'm gonna go hang out with

1:22:15

them later today actually. I really just

1:22:17

enjoyed, I got to know Chase and

1:22:19

Harrison especially. I've done Chase Harrison and

1:22:22

Owens shows at this point and met

1:22:24

Alex a number of times, but I

1:22:26

just like immediately jive with their personalities

1:22:28

and their perspective on. the world in

1:22:30

general, they're fun people. And so when

1:22:32

I got here, I think it was

1:22:35

Chase first invited me on his show

1:22:37

and then Harrison invited me on his

1:22:39

show. And then as I was filming

1:22:41

on Harrison's show, Alex's producer popped in

1:22:43

and one of the breaks was like,

1:22:45

hey, do you want to like take

1:22:48

Alex's desk in the fourth hour? I

1:22:50

was like, what did you just say?

1:22:52

Like what? It's like, yeah, it's in

1:22:54

like three hours. Could you do that?

1:22:56

Zero. Like they were like, I mean,

1:22:59

it was a trial run, I'm not

1:23:01

naive. Like they were basically like, does

1:23:03

he have the chops to be a

1:23:05

fill-in if we need him to be?

1:23:07

Or, and maybe they're, like, I don't

1:23:09

know if they wanna ask me to

1:23:12

do more in the future, but like

1:23:14

I'm staying independent, I'm not trying to

1:23:16

do that. But, but no, Daria basically

1:23:18

was like, like, like, what, like, do

1:23:20

you feel like you've got a topic,

1:23:22

like, like, like, It's Maha Day. Kennedy's

1:23:25

just got confirmed. Like I'll talk about

1:23:27

Kennedy. And then when I did get

1:23:29

in there, Alex, as Alex is, he

1:23:31

was kind of trying to be like,

1:23:33

all right, so you could like talk

1:23:35

about this news if you want it

1:23:38

to. And like, and I don't care,

1:23:40

like, do whatever you want. But like,

1:23:42

if you need, just as like, it's

1:23:44

his baby and he's like given his

1:23:46

desk over to a dude who he

1:23:49

like hardly knows, which is kind of

1:23:51

mind blowing on the first place. And

1:23:53

so he was kind of doing like

1:23:55

the dad thing for a second of

1:23:57

like you got what you need right

1:23:59

like you got what you need I

1:24:02

was like dude I got it no

1:24:04

problem man I appreciate it and then

1:24:06

yeah he bounced out he had a

1:24:08

meeting and I had zero direction I

1:24:10

just said whatever I wanted I could

1:24:12

have literally and I intentionally didn't but

1:24:15

I literally could have just done a

1:24:17

whole hour section or just sitting on

1:24:19

Israel if I wanted to and I

1:24:21

don't think they would have cared one

1:24:23

bit because they're like they all have

1:24:25

their own belief systems and they're all

1:24:28

pretty frick. and based on everything. And

1:24:30

then an ad break and then a.

1:24:32

20 minute monologue and I really love

1:24:34

the art form of this job and

1:24:36

the art of communication be it through

1:24:39

a tick-talk video or a YouTube video

1:24:41

or a podcast or in that case

1:24:43

that I see that like that live

1:24:45

monologuing as the like one of the

1:24:47

highest skill art forms in this industry

1:24:49

and anyone that doesn't realize how much

1:24:52

goes into keeping a cohesive train of

1:24:54

thought that is informative and factual, a,

1:24:56

because it's so easy, I mean, it's

1:24:58

easy to ramble if you're not trying

1:25:00

to be factual, or you're not trying

1:25:02

to be informative. If you're just spouting

1:25:05

opinions, that's one thing. But if you're

1:25:07

trying to be informative and factual and

1:25:09

like thread together a narrative for like...

1:25:11

20 minutes of talking without stumbling over

1:25:13

your words or forgetting something or like

1:25:15

misspeaking or getting lost in your own

1:25:18

like head and not remembering where you're

1:25:20

trying to go. There's so many ways

1:25:22

that you can just wind up kind

1:25:24

of like blubbering on camera. So I

1:25:26

have tons of respect for people that

1:25:29

do that on a daily basis. It's

1:25:31

unreal. I can't, that is a medium

1:25:33

that I don't think I would thrive

1:25:35

in. Like I did, before Tucker Left

1:25:37

Fox, I did literally a two minute

1:25:39

spot with him right after the Canadian

1:25:42

trucker stuff. Talking about Bitcoin like it

1:25:44

was a Friday night live on Fox

1:25:46

News and like I was in a

1:25:48

production van Yeah in the drives out

1:25:50

of family vacation with my wife's family

1:25:52

and I got to call that they

1:25:55

were like talk about the truckers and

1:25:57

Bitcoin on Tucker. I was like yeah,

1:25:59

let's go and uh... it was He

1:26:01

asked me two questions, it was two

1:26:03

minutes, but it felt like an eternity.

1:26:06

Like I wasn't even in the studio,

1:26:08

but like in that little production man,

1:26:10

the lights were on, the red light

1:26:12

was on. Yeah, and there's all the

1:26:14

little elements, you have to kind of,

1:26:16

you don't have to pay attention to,

1:26:19

but they're kind of inherently taking attention

1:26:21

to it, but they're kind of inherently

1:26:23

taking up attention space. Yeah. And in

1:26:25

the info war studio, there's like multiple

1:26:27

boom cameras and there's like, Nicole had

1:26:29

this great video she had. just posted that

1:26:32

day for Bobby that was like seven minutes

1:26:34

or something like that. And so we kind

1:26:36

of planned it out of like, if I

1:26:38

could end right at 22.33 or whatever it is.

1:26:40

That's when we rolled a clip and it'll take

1:26:42

right to the end of the show. And I didn't,

1:26:44

there's a lot of things about that monologue

1:26:46

that I did that I would love to

1:26:48

have done better. But that ending, I like,

1:26:50

walked it right to the right to the

1:26:52

end and just like nailed it right on

1:26:54

like the perfect kind of sentence to summarize

1:26:56

to summarize to summarize to summarize, everything. And it

1:26:59

was like right on my second and I was

1:27:01

like, nailed it. And I just, I like that

1:27:03

art form of sort of like orating and and

1:27:05

being an effective orator that also is

1:27:07

doing the all the other elements of

1:27:09

like, because it's not just being able

1:27:11

to talk, it's also being able to

1:27:13

coordinate to the timing, work with your

1:27:15

team, bring in the clips. So I

1:27:17

have so much respect and that team

1:27:19

like Harrison Chase Owen and Alex that do

1:27:22

all that is like, man, what a hard job. What

1:27:24

a hard job. a skill that many,

1:27:26

like you said, many people don't

1:27:28

realize how hard it is. Plus

1:27:30

Alex's desk is bad-ass. The Infawar

1:27:33

Studio, I re-watched my section on

1:27:35

it like two or three times

1:27:37

just because like looking at the

1:27:39

map behind it with like it,

1:27:42

looking at the map behind it

1:27:44

with like, it looks like there's

1:27:46

like global warfare, it's like, like, looking

1:27:48

at the map behind it with like, it

1:27:51

looks like there's a piece of media. have

1:27:53

a sick ass studio too. Yeah, because it's

1:27:55

pretty cool. It is. We've got a nice

1:27:57

humble studio here, but it is a great

1:27:59

studio. home base but yeah I think

1:28:01

yeah having a place you can go

1:28:03

sit down and press play that's like

1:28:06

high quality makes world different yeah though

1:28:08

I do love my freedom of like

1:28:10

having my I've got like the kind

1:28:12

of studio that I can pack up

1:28:14

into like two bags throw to my

1:28:16

van drive across the country with my

1:28:18

dog and pop into an Airbnb and

1:28:20

I've got a new studio so I

1:28:22

do love that freedom but you know

1:28:25

so down before too long probably that's

1:28:27

why I was happy to find out

1:28:29

you're an aossing is I think We

1:28:31

had a great conversation last summer, but

1:28:33

in person is just so much better.

1:28:35

So much better. Yeah, I'm a big

1:28:37

believer of moving, I'm actually, I'm about

1:28:39

to announce, I'm planning an event in

1:28:42

June that's like an in-person meetup, kind

1:28:44

of like a truth seeker, kind of

1:28:46

like middle of the road, like end

1:28:48

the corruption event that's focused specifically on

1:28:50

like amazing things happen when you get.

1:28:52

high quality people in a room together

1:28:54

to meet face to face in a

1:28:56

way that you just can't do over

1:28:58

the internet or over Twitter space or

1:29:01

something. That's what I think has led

1:29:03

to a lot of Bitcoin success. That's

1:29:05

100% like tonight we have bit devs

1:29:07

here in Austin and that's sort of

1:29:09

this meetup tonight has been going on

1:29:11

for four years now five years now

1:29:13

I believe it started in 2020 and

1:29:15

they didn't stop doing it. That's part

1:29:17

of the reason many Bitcoiners moved to

1:29:20

Austin's because during the Austin meetup. Kept

1:29:22

they were like they put the flag

1:29:24

out. They're like we're gonna keep meeting

1:29:26

then you travel to come attended and

1:29:28

then you like see how it is

1:29:30

here and you're like oh shit That's

1:29:32

what happened. People were flying from all

1:29:34

over the country once a month just

1:29:37

to go to bit dev's meetups Yeah

1:29:39

Before this one even started there was

1:29:41

one in New York that I started

1:29:43

going to in 2015 we go to

1:29:45

every month when I lived there and

1:29:47

these organic meetups whether it's bit devs

1:29:49

which is highly focused on the technical

1:29:51

details of the protocol and what's happening.

1:29:53

Then you have social meetups and educational

1:29:56

meetups and this sort of meet-up culture

1:29:58

has really, it really began like a

1:30:00

decade ago on Bitcoin and has expanded.

1:30:02

I think. That has led to a

1:30:04

lot of Bitcoin success as people, Bitcoiners

1:30:06

all around the world, congregating wherever they

1:30:08

are to talk about what they need

1:30:10

to work on. It's a very, it's

1:30:13

just so paired with the decentralized mindset

1:30:15

too. It's like a very burning man

1:30:17

mindset of before this decentralization. It's like

1:30:19

the mindset is generally who's throwing the

1:30:21

event. Like are you going to put

1:30:23

on event? Do I buy a ticket?

1:30:25

Like, I'll show up. And this decentralization

1:30:27

makes us realize that. That's not the

1:30:29

way like no, what are you going

1:30:32

to contribute? We're all part of the

1:30:34

system We're all part of the event

1:30:36

like you don't need a big organization

1:30:38

to throw an event necessarily although those

1:30:40

events are super fun It's also just

1:30:42

possible to just post like hey, I'm

1:30:44

in this town and I want to

1:30:46

go get coffee with a bunch of

1:30:48

people that are into Bitcoin. You all

1:30:51

want to meet up and so just

1:30:53

like allowing for the organic the without

1:30:55

having to sort of have like in

1:30:57

the political space it's like turning point

1:30:59

has to organize an event if you

1:31:01

want to go to a right wing

1:31:03

event. It's just such a natural and

1:31:05

intelligent way to structure it where everyone

1:31:08

takes ownership and then everyone learns to

1:31:10

contribute and then everyone gets the benefit

1:31:12

and it all ties it all ties

1:31:14

all together so much better. Yeah, go

1:31:16

meet people in meat space about these

1:31:18

ideas and isn't great. Likewise, glad to

1:31:20

be here man. You should stay in

1:31:22

Austin for a while. I probably. I

1:31:24

haven't found a better place to base

1:31:27

up yet so I'll probably be back

1:31:29

for the long term. Well, glad to

1:31:31

have you here. Yeah, thanks boss. All

1:31:33

right, peace of love freaks.