0:01

Hi guys, it's Nora. If you

0:03

like what we've done here

0:05

on terrible thanks for asking,

0:07

you might want to check

0:09

out our YouTube channel. We

0:11

have two new videos going

0:13

up every week over at

0:15

youtube.com slash at feelings A&D

0:18

Co. That's Feelings and Co.

0:20

There's a link to it

0:22

in our show description. So

0:24

see over on YouTube if

0:26

that's what you're into. What

0:29

a sales gal I am. How are

0:31

you? Most of us say fine or

0:33

good, but obviously it's not

0:35

always fine and sometimes it's

0:38

not even that good. This

0:40

is a podcast that gives

0:42

people the space to be

0:45

honest about how they really

0:47

feel. It's a place to

0:49

talk about life, the good,

0:51

the bad, the awkward, the

0:54

complicated. I'm Nora McNerney, and

0:56

this is thanks for asking.

1:02

Imagine for a moment, just a

1:05

moment, that you're married for 40

1:07

years to the love of your life. And

1:09

she dies and you have to figure out

1:11

how to live without her. Now

1:13

imagine that you call me and

1:15

I try to hook you up

1:18

with my mom for a long-distance

1:20

relationship. That's what happened with today's

1:22

caller. His name is David. You

1:24

might remember him from our episode

1:26

called The Void where he walks

1:28

us through his very, very, very

1:31

fresh grief. The last time we

1:33

heard from David, his wife Marian

1:35

had been dead for not even

1:37

a year, and he was describing

1:39

living without her. This call, we

1:41

catch up with David, we talk

1:44

about what it's like to date

1:46

when you're over 60 and a

1:48

widow, and yeah, I try to get

1:50

him to at least email my

1:52

mom. Well, Laura, a long

1:54

time out here. How are you? I'm doing okay.

1:57

Sorry, I was having some

1:59

technical difficulties. it was a

2:01

challenge to 6.7 area code

2:04

number. Yeah, once you're attached

2:06

to a phone number, it's

2:08

hard for me to let

2:11

it go. Well, we started

2:13

a few some years ago

2:15

with the void. I know.

2:18

Of course, the void's still

2:20

there, but of course, I'll

2:22

always be there. Yeah, well,

2:25

you know, I didn't foolish

2:27

things like getting to dating.

2:29

And I just decided to,

2:32

I just came up in

2:34

a decision to. put it

2:36

on long pause. Long pause.

2:39

I was recalling, you know,

2:41

my father-in-law died at 68,

2:43

he had a ruptured order,

2:45

so I'm here, he's actually

2:48

I had to ask, Barry,

2:50

that was my wife, you

2:52

know, he's mom going to

2:55

do it dating, and she's

2:57

committed, but in fact, no

2:59

effing way. She's in other

3:02

words, she was a one

3:04

man woman. And I kind

3:06

of thought about that and

3:09

I said, you know, I

3:11

think that's, I'm a one

3:13

more man. Yeah. And no

3:16

matter how much, you know,

3:18

it's nice to me and

3:20

other people other things. But

3:23

you know, and I don't

3:25

think it's wrong to say

3:27

it's, but I don't think

3:30

it's wrong to say it's,

3:32

but I don't think it's

3:34

wrong to say it all.

3:37

Yeah. I don't think that's

3:39

wrong to say it's wrong

3:41

to say it at all.

3:44

Geez, what a way to

3:46

put it! Wow! I wish

3:48

you could see my face!

3:51

people out there. You know,

3:53

I better be able to

3:55

get people like, you know,

3:58

really nice, you know, something

4:00

was always wrong. And if

4:02

it was a nice person,

4:04

if it was, if we,

4:07

if we, if it was

4:09

physical, it was something wrong

4:11

there. If it was emotional,

4:14

intellectual, you know, you name

4:16

it, something was always wrong.

4:18

Yeah. And it's just, all

4:21

I did was put myself

4:23

in for a big dose

4:25

of frustration. Yeah. Well, especially

4:28

if you've spent a lot

4:30

of time, like you spent

4:32

your, you know, pretty much

4:35

the entirety of your adult

4:37

life with Marian, and, you

4:39

know, that's like all the

4:42

versions of you have been

4:44

touched by her, you know,

4:46

like it's, I do think

4:49

that would be, I think

4:51

that would be really challenging.

4:53

I... And I still feel,

4:56

even though I'm remarried, I

4:58

love Matthew, I do still

5:00

feel like I'm also married

5:03

to Aaron. And... Well, yeah,

5:05

but you're much younger than

5:07

I am. Yeah, yeah. And

5:10

so I understand that, you

5:12

know, you'll push me to

5:14

feel, well, you have feelings

5:16

for your husband. But I

5:19

think... I mean, you know,

5:21

how long it's like, I

5:23

mean, you know, when we

5:26

were starting to, just thinking

5:28

out of there, we were

5:30

still, you know, you know,

5:33

it took a lot, it

5:35

took a while. And when

5:37

you think, you know, it's

5:40

just something you can go

5:42

fall in love again. Yeah,

5:44

love is rare. You know,

5:47

like it's, I always feel

5:49

like it's a lot of

5:51

luck to fall in love.

5:54

personally. Well, my mom is

5:56

fate and I think you're

5:58

going to write about that.

6:01

Yeah, I think, yeah, I

6:03

do think there's something about

6:05

it that feels like fate.

6:08

What were, besides somebody saying

6:10

they didn't want to compete

6:12

with a corpse, what were

6:15

some of your dating experiences

6:17

like? She didn't go out

6:19

with a woman for about

6:22

four or five months. Why?

6:24

I don't know. It didn't

6:26

get anywhere, you know. And

6:28

at that time, I was

6:31

only a few years out.

6:33

And this woman had to

6:35

boot out herself for six

6:38

years. She hadn't got out

6:40

with anyone. Oh. But she

6:42

had some, she had a

6:45

little kind of support she

6:47

was looking for that I

6:49

couldn't give her. And, you

6:52

know, and then, you know,

6:54

it just, I didn't like

6:56

the fact, you know, I

6:59

had the woman who said,

7:01

you know, I could be

7:03

against a corpse. I'll say

7:06

out of three other women,

7:08

they didn't even want to

7:10

hear about them. I'm married.

7:13

You know, it's like, I

7:15

don't get it. You know?

7:17

No, no, no, I didn't

7:20

want to get over to

7:22

my life. No, I'm saying,

7:24

like, if you don't want

7:27

to hear about someone's, like,

7:29

dead wife or dead husband,

7:31

like, that's, that, that, that,

7:34

that, that's like saying you

7:36

don't want to know anything

7:38

about their life. Because, you

7:40

know, that, that person, Marion,

7:43

was like a huge, huge,

7:45

huge, huge, huge, part of

7:47

your life. You haven't been

7:50

talking about Marian. But I

7:52

think, I'll shut up. You

7:54

tell me about yourself. I

7:57

will say. anything, which was

7:59

kind of like, yeah. But,

8:01

you know, I never intend

8:04

to spend the entire conversation

8:06

talking about Mary. And that's

8:08

gonna, but if I say

8:11

things like, oh, we used

8:13

to go to this restaurant

8:15

here or go, this is

8:17

what we used to do. Yeah, what's

8:20

wrong with that? Yeah. So that's

8:22

all I'm saying. Yeah, I'm on

8:24

your side on this. Well,

8:26

I was going to have

8:28

you with my phone. But,

8:31

you know, I'm just thinking,

8:33

I'm like, geez, maybe I

8:35

don't, I'm doing a

8:37

lot of studying and

8:39

thinking courses online. And

8:41

that's how I'm trying

8:43

to, like, that's how

8:45

I'm getting involved

8:47

in. But, you know, from

8:49

meeting women, I think

8:52

I need at least a long

8:54

break. Yeah, where are you meeting

8:56

these women? Maybe it... Well, of

8:58

course, you go to the debilitating

9:00

sites, you know, it's like, well,

9:03

the pandemic helped out, you know,

9:05

greatly, because I used to refer

9:07

to COVID dates. In other words,

9:09

you had for a cup of

9:11

coffee, or you just want to

9:14

walk away from it. And it

9:16

really wasn't anything else to do.

9:18

But, um... Yeah, and I was

9:20

thinking myself, you know, fate

9:22

has been both good and

9:24

bad to me. So maybe

9:26

I just want old fate

9:29

to do it once and we'll

9:31

see. What are you studying

9:33

right now? Like what kind

9:35

of classes are you

9:37

taking? Well, I'm mostly into

9:40

Jewish studies. And in

9:42

fact, I did a course

9:44

on... First Century Judaism, Judaism,

9:46

and early Christianity, which I

9:49

want to delve into more,

9:51

but yeah, of course, from

9:53

the guy who's a professor

9:55

who studies about Holy Cross

9:58

and Worcester, you know, we. And

10:00

so in some other subjects they

10:02

did take. So it's just been

10:05

good. I mean, Mondays were turned

10:07

into learning days. And these are

10:09

also, also starting to have a

10:11

pandemic on, you know, courses on

10:14

Zoom. Yeah. And a matter of

10:16

fact, I. It's something I prefer

10:18

now. Once you don't have to

10:21

leave your house, trying to leave

10:23

it gets a little harder, I

10:25

have to say. Yeah, well, I

10:28

don't want to be permanently stuck

10:30

to a teen here, but, you

10:32

know, it's just like, you know,

10:35

and then I've got, you know,

10:37

another course coming up in town,

10:39

and one, in March, so. Yeah,

10:41

now I'm thinking like these people

10:44

still do, you still do the

10:46

podcast? Yeah. And people still do.

10:48

Yeah, I mean, I don't know,

10:51

I was thinking about doing my

10:53

romance in the 70s, but I

10:55

mean, each of these. Oh, yeah.

10:58

I don't know. I want to

11:00

listen to that. You've been at

11:02

this for quite a while, so.

11:05

Yeah, but I mean, you know,

11:07

trust me, anyone can do it.

11:09

Like. Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure.

11:11

So, yeah, I tell you, well,

11:14

my medical is getting taxes out

11:16

of the way. Oh, God, yeah,

11:18

forgot about that. Oh, no, no,

11:21

we had, no, it's, it's much

11:23

easy, you know, the first, it

11:25

took marrying, God plus a memory.

11:28

She wasn't a mismeager of finances.

11:30

But she worked for herself as

11:32

a psychologist. And so she didn't

11:35

pay quarterly. And she was going

11:37

to pay quarterly. God. No, well,

11:39

she fell behind her 40. Yeah.

11:41

And so it took me like

11:44

three years. with the help of

11:46

a good account to get to

11:48

get through the stuff and so

11:51

now I found the I think

11:53

I've got it you know a

11:55

lot of people think the IRS

11:58

will never get you they work

12:00

slow yeah they'll don't worry they'll

12:02

get it they'll get their money

12:05

okay well maybe Trump will get

12:07

the IRS and then we're going

12:09

to go about it now good

12:12

God I mean I'm a little

12:14

bit I'm a little bit I'm

12:16

a little bit of a Marian

12:18

I'm a little bit of a

12:21

Marian I Matthew thank God for

12:23

Matthew because now he does all

12:25

of that because I was so

12:28

disorganized and he was like, did

12:30

you ever invoice for this? And

12:32

I was like, oh no, nope,

12:35

oops, oops, did you pay your

12:37

quarterly taxes? I'm like, I feel

12:39

like I did. And then, so

12:42

no, he's in charge of all

12:44

that because, you know, we need,

12:46

self-employed people do need a person

12:48

who is organized and can do

12:51

that. She had this inheritance coming

12:53

and I was kind of like,

12:55

I remember dropping a payment, not

12:58

at all, but. Yeah, she's just,

13:00

you know, she had other things

13:02

on her mind, okay? We have

13:05

other things or we have other

13:07

strengths. Yeah, of course, and she

13:09

had plenty of them, but she

13:12

had, we had this inheritance coming

13:14

and I was kind of like,

13:16

I remember dropping a payment off

13:18

at the post office and then.

13:21

I guess it was another one's

13:23

mom who's been in a car.

13:25

I think you remember when we

13:28

did our broadcast that I looked

13:30

at her passenger seat and I

13:32

smiled. Well, I looked at a

13:35

passenger's seat and I started laughing.

13:37

I said, she thought about Margot's

13:39

money and she thought, oh, we'll

13:42

pay it off. It'll be fine.

13:44

Sunday, yeah, be great. Yeah, don't

13:46

worry about it. I'm not sweating

13:48

it. So, you know, like she

13:51

knew me, but I know her

13:53

too. So, you know, and that's

13:55

why it's one of the times

13:58

where empty caters. Yeah. I used

14:00

to go with Aaron. I was

14:02

in Minnesota for a work trip

14:04

and I was driving up north past,

14:07

you know, where I used to go

14:09

with Aaron. I was in Minnesota

14:11

for a work trip and I

14:13

was driving up north past, you

14:15

know, where his grandpa had what

14:18

they called the ranch, which is

14:20

this like little piece of land

14:22

and. you know, where Aaron used

14:24

to have parties and I like

14:26

drove by it and I swear

14:29

to God I felt him in

14:31

the car with me. Like it

14:33

just felt like fruit, like

14:35

I, like I could feel him

14:37

in the car with me as

14:40

I passed the ranch. It was

14:42

so cool. Oh, I go to,

14:44

I go to the beach where

14:46

we used to go to be

14:49

tall. I mean, you know, she's

14:51

there. Yeah. Some people laugh at

14:53

me. I mean, I've had an

14:55

instance where I fell safe in

14:58

my chair and I got four

15:00

cats on my right shoulders.

15:02

Oh. Oh, I love that.

15:05

It's just her saying, huh?

15:07

It's her saying, huh? It's

15:09

her saying, time to wake

15:11

up, but don't nap all

15:14

day. Well, I wish you

15:16

would have hot me. Yeah.

15:18

Yeah, I don't know what I

15:20

believe, but I do think they're

15:22

around. You know, I think they're

15:24

around, not as ghosts, but I

15:26

think there's like, you know, some

15:29

sort of like collective consciousness that

15:31

they join and, you know, I

15:33

think they're okay on the other

15:35

side. I think that all the suffering

15:37

is here. I think if there's a

15:39

hell, we're in it now. I

16:07

got a text recently that said, hey,

16:09

do you have any bra recommendations for

16:12

tiny boobs? That's not my forte. This

16:14

was coming from somebody who had very

16:16

large boobs. And I said, yes, I've

16:19

been waiting for a text like this.

16:21

I'm not offended at all. And I

16:23

sent the link to the Skims, Fits

16:25

Everybody, Triangle, Brawlet. Now, this is the

16:28

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16:30

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16:32

something you need to know about the

16:35

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16:37

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16:39

I know that because I am wearing

16:41

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16:44

this recommendation from my friend Kara. Shout

16:46

out Kara. She's heard me say this

16:48

on the podcast before. She is fine

16:51

with people knowing that she has huge

16:53

gazoons. I love wearing the triangle brawlett.

16:55

I mean, I've got the scoop one,

16:57

which I also like. I'm always reaching

17:00

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17:02

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17:04

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17:07

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17:09

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17:11

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17:13

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17:15

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17:18

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22:27

it? life has turned to be

22:29

a bee that buzzes around them.

22:31

I told her, I said, I

22:34

don't want to be a bee.

22:36

Yeah, I don't want to be

22:38

a bee. So, yeah, so, you

22:40

know, this, you know, we

22:42

also, I don't, there was

22:44

something we didn't mention before

22:47

a couple years before marrying,

22:49

but we lost our son

22:51

a lot, you know, took

22:53

his life. So we had

22:56

our share here. You know,

22:58

and Josh is, you know,

23:00

really had, you know, she

23:02

said, like, she's a single

23:04

mom, and, you know, and,

23:07

you know, so, anyways, no,

23:09

I try to send an

23:11

email to you a couple

23:13

of times, and you know,

23:16

sort of sunk into, oh,

23:18

really? I blew it out

23:20

there, yeah. So, well, I'm a mess.

23:22

What is your email? I will, I'll, I'll

23:25

find you and I'll, I'll email you because

23:27

I'm recording this. I don't want to put

23:29

my real email out there for everybody. I'll

23:31

give you the real email. But, no, no,

23:33

no. I have the weirdest thing to say

23:35

to you, David, but I do think, and

23:38

I know you've listened to the podcast, so

23:40

I know you're, you're aware, but, not

23:42

romantically necessarily, but I think you

23:44

and my mom would really get

23:46

along. Like, she's a, she's

23:48

smart, she's interesting, you know, she

23:51

was with my dad for 40

23:53

years. This woman can write, this

23:55

woman likes to write an email,

23:58

this woman likes to correspond. This

24:00

woman reads, this

24:02

woman's got a

24:05

brain, and I just

24:07

think that you guys

24:09

would be good, like

24:11

pen pals, friends, I

24:14

don't know. Are you

24:16

trying to fix me

24:18

up though? A little

24:20

bit, a little bit, okay.

24:23

Maybe I am David. All

24:25

right, would that be so

24:27

bad? Would that be so

24:29

bad? Okay. No, no, no, no, no.

24:31

No. No, I didn't say, I didn't

24:33

say, I don't want to have any

24:36

due to women entirely. Yeah, you just

24:38

got to take a break from dating.

24:40

And, you know, like, I love the

24:42

East Coast. I think my mom is

24:45

pretty staunchly a Midwest person, but, you

24:47

know, I don't know. I just think

24:49

it, I think you guys would have

24:52

good conversations. That's all I'm going to

24:54

say. She's also a lifelong learner. She's

24:56

interesting. I'm just going to put that

24:59

out there. I'm going to share her

25:01

email with you. I don't know. I

25:03

just think you guys would have a

25:06

lot to talk about and you're both

25:08

really great. So that's just

25:10

one woman's. My opinion.

25:13

So, but no pressure. No

25:15

pressure. No pressure. I'm going

25:17

to tell all your fans.

25:19

Like, he's still here. The

25:21

void is still here. Is

25:23

it more bearable than the last

25:25

time we spoke? That

25:28

was still fresh. It

25:30

was so fresh. I

25:32

mean, it's always,

25:34

you know, I don't,

25:37

you know, it's always

25:39

there. Yeah. But it

25:41

was really fresh. You

25:44

know, I mean, yeah, yeah.

25:46

Yeah, it's, I think it's...

25:49

When I look back at those really

25:51

fresh moments, and I have like,

25:53

you know, various artifacts of that

25:56

time, I have journals, I don't

25:58

have a lot of it. I

26:00

don't have any audio of that

26:02

time, but it's like visiting another

26:04

planet almost because when you're in

26:06

it and you're in kind of

26:08

like the thick of grief and

26:11

loss, when you are in the

26:13

void as you were, it feels

26:15

like that's all you're ever

26:17

going to feel. And it was so,

26:20

I was thinking about this this

26:22

morning because now it's, you know,

26:24

now it's been 10 years, so

26:26

now. I can think about, okay,

26:28

where I was 10 years ago,

26:30

I was such a man. I was

26:33

just such a wreck. I was such

26:35

a wreck and I really didn't

26:37

know it. This may be

26:40

the fifth dinner. I'm thinking

26:42

she was a school psychologist

26:44

for a third career. I'm

26:47

trying to, what I should do

26:49

is try to have a seminar

26:51

or something. put in her name

26:54

on, you know, subjects being with

26:56

special education kids and God, she

26:58

had 20, she tested 20 gazillion

27:01

aspirin kids. Yeah, yeah. You know,

27:03

all these sorts of, you know,

27:06

but it's, it's easier said than

27:08

done. But I have, try to

27:10

reach out in contact. There is

27:13

a National Association of Schools

27:15

psychologist. Yeah. And there's

27:17

also a Massachusetts, she

27:19

is a government. And

27:22

you know, by the way,

27:24

I'm a U.A. grad, you know.

27:26

I did not know that.

27:28

Okay. A wild cat.

27:30

Yeah. Bared down. Bared

27:33

down. Bared down. Doesn't

27:35

make any sense to

27:38

me, but you know.

27:40

Are they wild cats

27:42

or something or bear? Why?

27:45

I thought it was wild

27:47

cats. But they say bare

27:49

down. When I did the

27:52

origin of that to some

27:54

if I remember this long

27:56

time ago it was somebody

28:00

when the universe is Arizona,

28:02

I don't think the turn

28:04

of the century. And he

28:06

wrote this fight song, it's

28:08

what it was, it was

28:10

a little fight song. In

28:12

fact, I turned, I tried

28:14

my hand rewriting the lyrics

28:16

into an X-rated fight down.

28:18

So yeah, but you know,

28:20

and then it was like,

28:22

I remember the Saturday and

28:24

a football game and. And

28:26

they had this one night

28:28

where they had every high

28:30

school band in Arizona on

28:32

the field with the U

28:34

of A band and playing

28:36

a giant bear down Arizona.

28:38

That was coming from Boston.

28:41

Yeah. This was like, I

28:43

loved it, you know. Oh,

28:45

and going from Boston to

28:47

Tucson, Arizona, that's a big

28:49

change. That's like, that's like

28:51

going to another planet. Well,

28:53

then. And this is like,

28:55

like, 60s. The first week

28:57

I was there, I was

28:59

crying. I look like I

29:01

just, so I'm going to

29:03

drop me on the set

29:05

of laws he and have

29:07

yet. You know, I couldn't

29:09

believe it. And then I

29:11

read him some guy who,

29:13

he said, you want to

29:15

go for a drive? I

29:17

said, sure. You know, he

29:19

said, he had this weed

29:22

that was soaked in peyote.

29:24

Oh my god. Yeah. My

29:26

mom is so interesting. Unfortunately,

29:28

I came down time to

29:30

class. I didn't leave for

29:32

years. I love it up

29:34

there. In fact, so listen,

29:36

Nora, yeah, Shera, tell all

29:38

the women out there. I

29:40

will. And if your mom,

29:42

okay, fine, no problem. Yeah,

29:44

my mom is so interesting.

29:46

She's cool. She's, I don't

29:48

know, I think she's great.

29:50

And... I don't know. You

29:52

could at least have a

29:54

great conversation. Okay. Yeah. No

29:56

problem with that. Right. All

29:58

right. Well, David, we'll talk

30:00

soon. I'm going to email

30:03

you my mom's email address.

30:05

Okay. You think you're fine?

30:07

Bye. Okay. That call was

30:09

really special. The last time

30:11

we talked to David, his

30:13

wife Marianne. the love of

30:15

his life had really just

30:17

died and the episode that

30:19

we made with him was

30:21

called into the void because

30:23

when we spoke to him

30:25

he'd he'd spoke so beautifully

30:27

of loss as like as

30:29

the void right this void

30:31

that he was adjacent to

30:33

that was with him at

30:35

all times it was so

30:37

beautiful I loved that episode

30:39

Marcel Malekibu had the beautiful

30:42

idea to just let David

30:44

talk to just let that

30:46

episode be him. In the

30:48

past, our podcast was a

30:50

lot of narration, a lot

30:52

of sort of driving a

30:54

story forward, and that episode

30:56

was so different for us,

30:58

and it remains a favorite.

31:00

I'm sure it's a fan

31:02

favorite too, because it's almost

31:04

like a grief journal. and

31:06

hearing David's voice again, we've

31:08

kept in touch, we email,

31:10

he's a subscriber to the

31:12

podcast even in this iteration,

31:14

so thank you so much

31:16

David, but it's so good

31:18

to hear his voice. You've

31:20

talked to a million widows,

31:23

right? You haven't heard the

31:25

story of grief because grief

31:27

is different for everybody, and

31:29

his experience as an older

31:31

man is so different from

31:33

mine. My mother and I

31:35

were widowed. within six weeks

31:37

of each other. My mom

31:39

lost her husband of nearly

31:41

40 years. I lost Aaron

31:43

and I had been with

31:45

him for four years, married

31:47

for three. She lost her

31:49

entire past. I lost my

31:51

entire future. Those were really,

31:53

really different losses. I am

31:55

remarried. David's not my mom.

31:57

not yes I am trying

31:59

to match them up you

32:02

heard it here and I

32:04

do think that it would

32:06

have been harder for a lot

32:08

of reasons for me to have the

32:10

life that I have now if I had

32:12

been older it's it's a it's a

32:15

totally different experience it is

32:17

and yet I do still

32:19

feel some of the things

32:21

that David is describing and

32:23

I know I felt them when I

32:25

was at the five-year mark versus the

32:28

the tenure mark as well, but I

32:30

do still feel like I'm married to

32:32

Aaron, even though I'm married to Matthew,

32:34

who is alive, I will say that

32:36

in my experience, having never done Polyamery

32:39

with two alive people, it's a lot

32:41

easier when one of them is dad.

32:43

This morning, not knowing that I was

32:45

about to have this call this morning,

32:47

earlier this morning, I was talking with

32:50

Matthew. And I said, God, I forget

32:52

that you and Aaron weren't friends.

32:54

Sometimes the way that I think

32:56

of both of my husbands is

32:58

that they were friends and I

33:01

met through them, like they have

33:03

their own history together. And I

33:05

think that because while they're so

33:07

different personality-wise, they have so many

33:09

of the same interests and because,

33:12

and we're doing a whole

33:14

other episode, Invisible Strings, Aaron

33:16

and Matthew, were undoubtedly in the

33:18

same. rooms as each other, rooms

33:20

that I never would have been

33:22

in because I am not into

33:24

the music that they are into,

33:27

by and large, I should say.

33:29

That has always been a comfort

33:31

to me knowing that these men

33:33

that I love so much, like

33:35

in their young adulthood, their, you

33:37

know, teenagerhood, that they were at

33:40

the same concerts, that they had

33:42

the same interests, and that does

33:44

mean a lot to me. But

33:46

that was a wonderful update.

33:48

from David. So that's David

33:51

Cherson from Into the Void.

33:53

That episode is what I actually

33:55

think we're gonna end up doing is,

33:58

you know, what we're gonna do. is

34:00

we're going to play the rest

34:02

of David's episode right here. And

34:04

this is now an update. I

34:07

thought this was just going to

34:09

be one random call, but now

34:11

we actually have an update episode.

34:14

So stay tuned. After the break,

34:16

you are going to hear the

34:18

original episode with David into the

34:21

void recorded just after he lost

34:23

his wife, Marian. Hi

34:50

guys, it's Nora. If you

34:52

like what we've done here

34:54

on Terrible Thanks for Asking,

34:56

you might want to check

34:58

out our YouTube channel. We

35:00

have two new videos going

35:02

up every week over at

35:04

youtube.com/at Feelings A&D Co. That's

35:06

Feelings and Co. There's a

35:08

link to it in our

35:10

show description. So, see over

35:12

on YouTube if that's what

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35:53

If you have your spouse in

35:55

your mind in your heart, that

35:58

doesn't mean, oh well, you know.

36:00

screw to present. I'm Nora

36:02

McNerney and this is terrible

36:05

thanks for asking. Grief

36:07

has this way of forcing

36:09

us into a world we didn't

36:11

choose and a world from which

36:14

we have no escape. It's like

36:16

being washed out to see there

36:19

on the shore are all the

36:21

pieces and players of your old

36:23

life watching from dry land. Maybe

36:26

the waves of your loss will

36:28

lap at their ankles. Maybe they'll

36:30

swim out to try to see

36:32

you or save you, but there's a

36:35

part of this sea that is yours

36:37

and yours alone. The universal

36:39

experience is also as

36:42

unique as every person

36:44

who experiences it. And if I've

36:46

learned anything, from my own

36:48

ocean and from dipping my

36:50

toes into the experiences of

36:53

others, It is that our grief

36:55

needs a witness. Inside every

36:57

loss is a story that

36:59

longs to be told. Inside

37:02

every griever is a nearly

37:04

uncontrollable urge to make the

37:06

people around us understand what

37:08

we had and what we have

37:11

now. In 2020, David's wife,

37:13

Marian, was diagnosed with

37:15

glioblastoma. It's a word

37:17

I only know because I

37:19

only know because I had

37:22

to look it up when...

37:24

My husband Aaron was diagnosed

37:27

in 2014, and it's a

37:29

word that is just shorthand

37:31

for a horrible, aggressive, incurable

37:34

brain cancer. David and

37:36

Marian had been together

37:38

for 39 years when

37:40

Marian died two months

37:42

after her diagnosis. And

37:44

nearly a year after Marian's

37:47

death, David wrote me this

37:49

email. I

37:55

was just referred to your

37:57

2018 TED Talk on Moving

37:59

On. Our situations

38:01

are similar but not exactly

38:03

100% and I'm 72. My wife

38:06

was the older woman by five

38:08

weeks. It was kind of an

38:10

annual joke with us that all

38:12

our our birthdays followed each

38:14

other. Marian also died of

38:16

a glial bustoma although she only

38:19

lived a bit more than two

38:21

months. She suffered a stroke

38:23

in between her two surgeries and

38:26

in one of these ironic moments

38:28

of life. One person suggested

38:30

to me that Merrin's lucky

38:33

in going fast. And I thought

38:35

myself, I don't know how to

38:37

respond to this, I'm lucky. I

38:39

get what you mean by moving

38:41

on and going forward. Right now, I

38:43

am two months away from

38:45

the first anniversary of Merrin's

38:48

passing. And I've analogized

38:50

my life since then to a

38:52

sine wave in electronics, up and

38:54

down, up and down, etc.

38:56

At the beginning I was too

38:59

devastated to think about much. Mary

39:01

and I were together for about

39:03

39 years. I often said if

39:05

it wasn't for meeting her, I

39:07

wouldn't have ever been married and

39:09

it would have become some sort

39:11

of curmudually bachelor. So like other

39:13

little people, I first recognized that

39:15

I have to manage the void

39:17

that is always with me. I

39:19

remember driving one day up to

39:22

the North Shore and looking at

39:24

the empty passenger seat beside me

39:26

and realizing that fact. I actually

39:29

was satisfied to come to that

39:31

realization. So I know what you mean

39:33

in relation to moving forward. For

39:35

me, that just means that I'm managing

39:37

to live my daily life, nothing

39:40

more. Know that it does not mean a

39:42

break for a man or a life together.

39:44

I always repeat the mantra that

39:46

she will always be in my

39:49

heart and mine. but we'll also

39:51

have to coexist in my present

39:54

and future. That's

39:56

all. Just that big, huge

39:58

task to... live your

40:01

present and your future

40:03

while holding your past.

40:05

David's email wasn't asking

40:07

me for a conversation

40:10

or asking me to

40:12

interview him. He was

40:14

just reaching out. He

40:16

was looking for a

40:19

witness to where he

40:21

was and what he

40:23

was holding. He

40:26

had an experience similar

40:28

to mine and so,

40:30

so different. So this

40:32

episode, we're asking you

40:35

to be a witness.

40:37

To a story that

40:39

is fully unique and

40:41

painfully universal. Two people

40:43

fall in love. Two

40:45

people build a life

40:47

together. One person dies,

40:49

and the other has

40:51

to live without them.

40:54

This is David and Marian's love

40:56

story. We met, we were in

40:59

the early 30s. She happened to

41:01

come into a synagogue that I

41:03

was starting attending. And I just

41:05

noticed her from a distance. The

41:07

second time we actually did meet,

41:09

we were attending a speaker or

41:12

a meeting, she made it kind

41:14

of obvious she wanted to meet

41:16

me. Took a seat next to

41:18

me. that I had mentioned a

41:20

few things. And after that, I

41:23

said, you want to go out

41:25

for a drink? I said, yeah.

41:27

And we get to talk more.

41:29

It turned out that both our

41:31

fathers are butchers, or hers was

41:34

a bit different than mine. But

41:36

you know, we had some in

41:38

common. And I told her, I

41:40

said, I give her a call

41:42

tomorrow night. And she figured that,

41:45

you know, most guys say things

41:47

like that. They never do call

41:49

you again. But I did. I

41:56

never really had much experience

41:58

in terms of having... long-term

42:00

girlfriends. I didn't. In fact,

42:03

my family had given up

42:05

on me. You know, the

42:08

thing was, they said, David's

42:10

a program to be married.

42:12

Well, anyways, my other siblings

42:15

were married during what my

42:17

wife and I just referred

42:20

to as normal age, you

42:22

know, in the 20s. But

42:24

no, I... And

42:27

for my teen years, I

42:29

was very shy. And I

42:31

didn't get over that until

42:33

I was in my 20s,

42:35

you know, recognized the old

42:38

gender. But that's, you know,

42:40

it took a long time

42:42

for me to find someone.

42:44

But David did find someone.

42:46

And by the third date,

42:48

for David at least, it

42:51

was a done deal. All

42:54

together, we're together almost 40 years.

42:57

That's quite a long time. We

42:59

would always go out. I mean,

43:01

you know, we always, however it's

43:03

movies, go out to eat. They

43:06

always like to do that. We

43:08

were people who just stayed at

43:10

home all the time. And we

43:13

do things on around. I mean,

43:15

apart from each other too. So

43:17

we were cool, like, she had

43:20

an craft shows, and she also

43:22

had an attitude towards fashion, that's

43:24

art. She was summoned that, you

43:27

know, didn't think that it was

43:29

not high-brow or something to be

43:31

interested in fashion. And when she

43:34

considered a part of art, and

43:36

once in a while I would

43:38

actually sometimes go to a craft

43:41

show with her, we had a

43:43

way of... We had a strategy.

43:45

I would take a couple of

43:48

turns around the... the exhibitions with

43:50

her and then I would have

43:52

a book with me and would

43:55

have our phones and say good.

43:57

But, you know, that's it. You

43:59

know, she could, because she could

44:02

spend forever. And I go off

44:04

and read my book and, you

44:06

know, afterwards, you know, when she

44:09

had satisfied satiator, you know, interest

44:11

or bought it, some things, you

44:13

know, and then I got together

44:16

and, you know, left the show. So

44:18

there were things that we, a lot

44:20

of things we did in our own. She

44:22

had no interest in sports, but

44:24

she tolerated my interest in

44:27

sports. My interest in sports.

44:29

You know, she always knew when I

44:31

was a big hockey fan. And

44:34

sometimes she'd even sit in

44:36

the same murmur thing if I

44:38

was watching a game, but I

44:40

had to sound off. That was

44:42

a compromise everywhere. And

44:44

you know, I didn't care

44:47

because I got tired of

44:49

listening to announcers and their

44:51

B.S. and everything I know was

44:53

going on. No one ever tell

44:55

me. You know, I just watch

44:57

it. You know. It really was

45:00

what we want to think of

45:02

as a marriage of two

45:04

people. You know, people might

45:07

have thought we were opposites,

45:09

but in reality, you

45:11

know, we weren't so

45:13

opposite. When it came

45:15

down to life itself.

45:17

How else were you and

45:19

Marian different? She

45:21

talked a lot more

45:23

than I did. Even

45:25

though we didn't share

45:27

identical politics, she was

45:30

always open discussing

45:32

everything. You know, like she

45:34

was a big Facebooker.

45:36

And she would get

45:39

involved with people who

45:41

were Trump supporters and

45:44

have civilized discussions

45:47

with them. I can't, okay? But

45:49

you know, she could. And I

45:51

always say to people. We ought

45:53

to take a page out of her

45:56

book and maybe society would be a

45:58

lot better off for it. And

46:00

more often than not, we

46:03

saw eye to eye on the real

46:05

issues of life. I don't

46:07

mean the politics, you know.

46:10

But getting along together,

46:12

raising a family, you

46:14

know, our look on morals

46:16

and our same outlook on,

46:19

you know, or even God,

46:21

what if I bring that

46:23

up? But she was genuine,

46:25

you know. I used to

46:28

call her an idealist. I

46:30

have a thing about idealist.

46:32

She was idealistic in some

46:35

ways, which I wasn't.

46:37

I've had experiences

46:40

in my life that, you know,

46:42

turn me off, particularly in

46:44

people and groups,

46:46

sometimes I would

46:49

have more of a

46:51

hard-bitten view of people, you

46:53

know, that, and she... which

46:55

I'm more hopeful view, you know.

46:58

She was an idealist, but she

47:00

didn't let her idealism carry her

47:02

away. David and Marian have a

47:04

longish, happy life together. There

47:06

are craft shows and family gatherings

47:09

and hockey games on TV. The

47:11

two of them find their groove

47:13

and they work through the same

47:15

things all couples work through and

47:18

they grow together, they grow together,

47:20

they grow together, they grow up

47:22

together, they grow up together. And

47:25

then one day, 39 years after

47:27

that first aid, they're sitting on

47:29

the couch. We were watching what

47:31

are our British mysteries. I notice

47:34

in our eyes, trying to fight

47:36

for a minute, they seemed opaque,

47:38

and then it went away. David

47:41

notices that something's wrong,

47:43

but it happened so quickly,

47:45

he just kind of moves

47:47

on and forgets about it.

47:50

And then a month later, Marian

47:52

starts to complain that her tooth hurt,

47:54

so she makes an appointment with their

47:56

dentist and gets in the car to head

47:58

out. And what happened was...

48:00

Instead of going to the

48:02

dentist, she took her right

48:05

turn towards the town where

48:07

she did a lot of

48:09

her work. And she got

48:12

in an accident, which total

48:14

luck hard. And EMT said

48:16

she looked a little wobbly.

48:18

They're going to take her

48:21

up to a local hospital.

48:23

So they discharged her after

48:25

about an hour, and Marian

48:27

and David had home together.

48:30

And for a few days

48:32

afterwards, Marian is complaining about

48:34

muscle soreness. She was in

48:37

accident, so I didn't think

48:39

it was strange that she

48:41

complained about muscle sore and

48:43

saying, you know, like that.

48:46

But then the next couple

48:48

of days, she was complaining

48:50

about being so tired that

48:52

she was having trouble getting

48:55

out a bit. And

48:57

this accident happened on Tuesday,

48:59

and by that Saturday, she

49:01

said to me, I don't

49:03

feel good, we better go

49:05

to the hospital. And, you

49:07

know, I took her to

49:09

the ER, and that's what

49:12

I decided to do a

49:14

CT scan and MRI on

49:16

her, and then they found

49:18

the tumor. There was fluid

49:20

that developed around the tumor,

49:22

and we tried the contour,

49:24

a catheterotexin methamphetamine, which is

49:26

a... cousin of prednisone, but

49:28

it didn't work, so the

49:30

surgeon asked her to bring

49:32

her back to the hospital

49:34

and put a drain on

49:36

her, man. And she basically

49:38

was suffering a stroke, and

49:40

if you've ever been around

49:42

people who are offering a

49:44

stroke, their personalities change completely.

49:46

I mean, she was angry.

49:48

She started yelling at me.

49:50

and she was also losing

49:52

her balance and I had

49:54

a friend of mine and

49:56

on Friday morning we practically

49:58

had to take her hostage

50:00

to bring her back to

50:03

the hospital. I'll tell you

50:05

from the second week of

50:07

having the Kale Bastoma, I

50:09

knew what I was up

50:11

against. So I went and

50:13

did what I called the

50:15

deaf stuff. What's the deaf

50:17

stuff? I got a double

50:19

plot in the cemetery. I

50:21

sat at the funeral because

50:23

I knew, you know, sooner

50:25

or later, it's going to

50:27

die. the

50:29

prescribed length of life for

50:32

people with gliabastoma supposedly 12

50:34

or 14 months. But I

50:37

think the fact that she

50:39

also had suffered a stroke

50:41

so to cut that back.

50:44

She spent basically the next

50:46

two months in the hospital.

50:51

The treatment for glioblastoma has

50:53

not changed much in the

50:55

past decades. It is brutal,

50:57

truly, and it's also the

50:59

only options that you have.

51:01

It's surgery, it's chemo, and

51:03

it's radiation. You know, I

51:05

sometimes get mad at myself,

51:07

but a lot of people

51:09

say they couldn't blame me.

51:11

I insisted they try radiation

51:13

with her. And when I

51:15

look back upon this, and

51:17

she was really terrified. When

51:21

you get through memorize your skull,

51:23

you know, you get an enclosure,

51:25

you're mostly enclosed. So I can

51:28

relate to that. And she had

51:30

to hold the nurse's hand. She

51:32

was that scared. And I realized

51:34

that, you know, I knew what

51:37

was coming. I should have found

51:39

just a good hospice and let

51:41

us know, but I didn't, so.

51:43

We'll be right back. Um,

52:01

I think I just won my taxes.

52:03

Yeah? I just switched to H&R Block

52:05

in about one minute. All I had

52:07

to do was drag and drop lashes

52:09

return into H&R Block, and bam. My

52:11

information is automatically there. So I don't

52:13

have to go digging around for all

52:15

my old papers to switch? Nope. Sounds

52:17

like we just leveled up our tax

52:19

game. Switching to H&R Block is easy.

52:21

Just drag and drop your last return.

52:23

Your last return. It's better with Block.

52:28

Hi, this is Javon your

52:30

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52:32

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Blinds and restrictions may apply. We're

53:03

back. It has never been easy

53:05

to lose the person you love,

53:07

to brain cancer or any other

53:10

way, but Marian is dying in

53:12

2020. Originally, they called me from

53:14

the rehab center and said, how

53:17

would you like to come down

53:19

and meet with Marian downstairs? You

53:21

keep masking on? I said, sure,

53:24

you bet. But when I got

53:26

there, she wasn't up front and

53:28

they told me, we're going to

53:31

have to put... what are they

53:33

called, PPE, the personal protective gear

53:35

on you, you know, those, you

53:38

know, gown and mask and, you

53:40

know, everything. And when I went

53:42

to a room, I could see

53:45

she was having a seizure. She

53:47

looked, uh, it was terrible. And

53:49

that's, you know, when I called

53:52

my daughter to tell her to

53:54

come up here. Basically, she lasted

53:56

up until about 1.45 a. And

54:00

she was in

54:02

the hospital. I

54:04

was living here

54:06

myself and the dog,

54:09

you know. The dog

54:11

was actually her dog,

54:14

even though I took

54:17

care of her. I'm

54:19

left with a dog

54:21

and I'm married.

54:23

I love the dog, but

54:26

you know, it's not

54:28

married. You know, I

54:30

had experience of both

54:33

here and elsewhere that's

54:35

living on my own.

54:37

It's nothing I don't promulgate

54:40

as a lifestyle, but I can

54:42

deal with it, you know. That's

54:44

the one thing that stands

54:46

on my mind about during

54:49

that time when she was

54:51

in the hospital and

54:53

so alive. I really look

54:55

forward to the evenings.

54:59

Because I didn't have to

55:01

talk to any doctors or

55:04

nurses anymore for the day.

55:06

And I really, that was, you

55:08

know, that at least could rest

55:10

my mind for the evening

55:13

until the next day when

55:15

you start all over again.

55:17

A lot of people complain

55:19

about the days being so

55:21

long. I've had the opposite. Like

55:24

the time was like, especially

55:26

in the first year. Time

55:28

was moving faster, you know,

55:30

it's like, I didn't want

55:32

to go to bed. But,

55:34

um, I don't know, this

55:37

is my experience. A lot

55:39

of people say the second year

55:41

is worse and I have to

55:43

agree with that. I think I

55:46

was so busy in the first

55:48

year of clearing up financial stuff

55:50

and the taxes and all that

55:53

stuff. And all of a sudden,

55:55

it's just felt like a... More

55:57

of an impact in the second.

56:00

year and now we're coming to

56:02

the close of the second

56:04

year. As I said, it's

56:06

kind of hanging over me

56:09

for now. Somebody told

56:11

me, though, that, you know,

56:13

Mary knew we lived a little

56:15

more in two months. She

56:17

didn't get the prescribed

56:20

12 to 14 months of

56:22

life that she was supposed

56:24

to get with a GM.

56:26

And he said to me.

56:29

Well, you're lucky. She didn't

56:31

have to live long. And

56:33

I didn't know how to

56:36

respond to that. I mean, yeah,

56:38

in one sense, maybe she

56:40

was up, but lucky. What

56:42

do you mean, lucky? I

56:44

lost my life. Lucky. You

56:46

know. And then there's

56:49

dating. I think I made

56:51

a mistake with dating. I

56:53

was, as I say, too early.

56:55

And I pulled back because,

56:57

you know, experiences show

57:00

me that. Although I

57:02

can safely say that dating

57:04

is still dating and the

57:06

act of dating itself, what

57:08

I found was this getting

57:10

beyond the date, you know,

57:12

and having how to navigate

57:14

this was really kind of

57:17

strange to me. I'll tell you

57:19

about part of the reason

57:21

that I did start dating

57:23

back then was that I wanted

57:25

to reach out. and meet

57:27

people, just meet people

57:30

because not only my

57:32

wife, but a lot of

57:34

our friends passed away. So,

57:36

you know, we're kind of down

57:38

to the part in life I

57:40

realized that where, you know,

57:43

you saw my parents' friends

57:45

die and they were like

57:47

missing them and that's

57:49

the way I do too. But,

57:51

you know, it's, it's meeting the

57:53

people and... You know, getting

57:55

to make friends. But it's,

57:57

it can be for a

57:59

pretty... complicated process. It's not

58:01

like we were in the

58:03

20s and 30s. It really

58:06

isn't, you know, don't want

58:08

to get married again, but

58:10

somehow some women say that

58:12

they want to find the

58:14

last love and I just

58:17

find this baffling. Love is

58:19

that something that you go

58:21

to a delicatessen and get

58:23

a quarter pound of love,

58:25

you know? It's really isn't.

58:28

And marriage is not, you

58:30

know, in the cards, as

58:33

I said, I was married.

58:35

But, you know, to find

58:38

someone that you could be

58:40

a companion or special friend,

58:42

you know, maybe I still

58:45

have someone I can find.

58:49

Moving forward, it doesn't mean you have

58:51

to find a new person. It doesn't

58:53

mean you need to remarry or find

58:55

a companion or a special friend. I

58:58

would like it if we could all

59:00

go to the deli and order a

59:02

quarter pound of love, but instead we

59:04

just have the task of living our

59:06

lives without the person we had shared

59:09

our life with. We

59:17

always talk about the void.

59:19

And in fact, I realized

59:21

early on, we like to

59:23

go to a certain beach

59:26

in the summer. So after

59:28

she passed away, I started

59:30

making a routine sort of

59:32

on Saturdays just to drive

59:34

up there, even for his

59:36

off-season. Matter of fact, I

59:38

kind of preferred beaches off-season.

59:41

One time I was driving...

59:43

You know I looked toward

59:45

the passenger seat and I

59:47

realized Marrin's not there, but

59:49

I also had an experience

59:51

in my house where at

59:54

that time I was still

59:56

belonging to a bereavement group

59:58

and I told the people

1:00:00

I said I went from

1:00:02

one end of the house

1:00:04

to the other and the

1:00:06

void seemed almost measurable as

1:00:09

if I could have taken

1:00:11

the tape measure out and

1:00:13

measured it. You know, I

1:00:15

wouldn't open her closet door

1:00:17

for a long time. And

1:00:19

then finally I said to

1:00:22

myself, oh hell with it.

1:00:24

I opened the door and

1:00:26

I said, ha, you don't

1:00:28

scare me. And I closed

1:00:30

the door and now I

1:00:32

started using the closet. Now

1:00:34

I don't believe in ghosts

1:00:37

or anything like that. And

1:00:39

I don't know what there

1:00:41

is beyond or there's above

1:00:43

us or I wish I

1:00:45

could ask married, but I

1:00:47

can't. One thing I tell

1:00:50

to, not just younger people,

1:00:52

but everybody gets around and

1:00:54

they're married or there was

1:00:56

someone, don't ever take it

1:00:58

anyone for granted. Really. Because

1:01:00

you never know how life

1:01:02

works, how life is complicated,

1:01:05

you know? When you become

1:01:07

widow, it's kind of like

1:01:09

now I've told a few

1:01:11

friends that now I feel

1:01:13

like I'm really up against

1:01:15

life. Before life was kind

1:01:18

of this big thing around

1:01:20

us, but now it's like

1:01:22

I'm up against the wall.

1:01:24

That's the way I feel

1:01:26

about it. Life

1:01:32

could be very trying at times.

1:01:34

I never thought that I would

1:01:36

be without marrying because we were

1:01:39

planning on, you know, our retirement

1:01:41

together and taking a couple more

1:01:44

trips, but, well, you know, I'll

1:01:46

do a couple trips on my

1:01:48

own and maybe my daughter, my

1:01:51

granddaughter on trip and, you know,

1:01:53

that's what I'll do what I

1:01:55

do. This

1:02:29

has been terrible thanks for asking.

1:02:32

I'm Nora McNerney. I want to

1:02:34

thank David for sharing Marian with

1:02:36

us and for reaching out. And

1:02:39

also, I don't know, there are

1:02:41

a million Davids, there are a

1:02:44

million Marians, and also there's only

1:02:46

one. And sometimes I just like

1:02:48

to listen to stories like this

1:02:51

one to remind me of that,

1:02:53

to remind me that every person

1:02:55

that you meet is carrying. their

1:02:58

own story, their own version of

1:03:00

this. So thank you David for

1:03:03

sharing that with us. Our team

1:03:05

here at Terrible Thanks for Asking

1:03:07

is Marcel Malakebo, our senior producer,

1:03:10

Jordan Turgen, Megan Palmer, Claire McNerney,

1:03:12

Larissa Whitcher, and Eugene Kidd. We

1:03:14

are a production of Feelings in

1:03:17

Co., known as Effin Co. The

1:03:19

F could also stand for flowers.

1:03:21

That's not as funny. Honestly, it's

1:03:24

not as easy. I am not

1:03:26

recording this in my closet. I'm

1:03:29

not recording this in my home.

1:03:31

I'm recording this at Malakeboo Studios

1:03:33

in Minneapolis. In

1:03:37

the background, you might hear a

1:03:39

rowdy two-year-old who has taken a

1:03:42

snooze and is ready to fricking

1:03:44

party. Okay? What does she want

1:03:46

to tell you about? Her Moana

1:03:48

t-shirt. Okay? She's wearing a Moana

1:03:51

t-shirt. She's going to tell you

1:03:53

that. She wants to tell you

1:03:55

that. at ttfa.org. If you rate

1:03:58

and review and share a podcast

1:04:00

with someone that you think would

1:04:02

love it, that is very helpful.

1:04:05

And if you'd like to support

1:04:07

us in a financial way, certainly

1:04:09

no pressure. You would go to

1:04:11

ttfa.org/premium. We offer ad-free episodes, bonus

1:04:14

episodes, and more, and that and

1:04:16

more is quarterly mail. And I

1:04:18

love sending mail, and I try

1:04:21

to make sure I send you

1:04:23

something good, something wonderful, every quarter.

1:04:25

Our theme music is by Geoffrey

1:04:28

Lamar Wilson. As always, you should

1:04:30

look him up. He has a

1:04:32

new band called Lamar that is

1:04:35

really lovely that you should be

1:04:37

also looking into. If you want

1:04:39

to email us, it's terrible at

1:04:41

feelings and dot co, and our

1:04:44

phone number is 612-568-4441. You can

1:04:46

add to a story, you can

1:04:48

comment on a story, you can

1:04:51

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1:04:53

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1:04:55

out a voice mail. That's... your

1:04:58

business. 612, 568, 441. Thank you

1:05:00

for being here. Hi

1:05:16

guys, it's Nora. If you

1:05:18

like what we've done here

1:05:20

on terrible thanks for asking,

1:05:22

you might want to check

1:05:24

out our YouTube channel. We

1:05:26

have two new videos going

1:05:28

up every week over at

1:05:30

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1:05:32

Co. There's a link to

1:05:34

it in our show description.

1:05:36

So, see over on YouTube

1:05:39

if that's what you're into.

1:05:41

What a sales gal I

1:05:43

am!