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1:01

All right, um, hey you, you being

1:03

you, specifically the listener. How are

1:05

you doing? You know, what's going

1:07

on with your life? Yeah, let

1:10

us know. Yeah, speak to your

1:12

stereo system. We're speaking to your

1:14

earphones. Speak it out loud. Excellent.

1:16

Or that sucks. One of the two.

1:18

Or me. All right, hey you and

1:21

welcome. This is my third time saying

1:23

it. I'm really bad at this. You

1:25

think after like, I think we're closing

1:27

in on two years. Yeah, yeah. Still

1:29

I've got an intro. Still I'm not

1:31

an intro. Still just stealing the ones

1:34

from my videos and still doing it

1:36

poorly. Yeah, I like it. We're winging

1:38

it. Thank you. Well, that's it. That's

1:40

what we do on the podcast. We

1:42

wing it. And today we are wing

1:45

it into Carl Pans-ram part...

1:47

But before we do, let's, uh,

1:49

let's just, you know, let's gently get

1:51

into it. Okay, you know, it's a

1:53

little more play, easy. Um, Keith, what's

1:55

going on with you? Man, I'm, uh...

1:57

So much stuff. Wow, he's chomping at the

1:59

bit. folks to tell you. Seeding. Seeding.

2:01

Seeding. How dare you? So we had

2:03

to, um, so sort of ghost related.

2:06

The ghost broke my door. Are you

2:08

serious? I think so. So do you

2:10

know me, like, I had like all

2:12

the stories of like the ghost door

2:14

and like mess with the handle and

2:16

stuff? The handle broke. Yeah, so I

2:18

had to go off and like change

2:20

the whole handle. It's in your front

2:22

door. This is the front door, yeah.

2:24

So the whole, like, inside the whole

2:26

front door, like, it snapped. The inside

2:28

mechanism is snapped. It's broken. I had

2:30

to change it. And now I'm like,

2:32

how do I get reimbursed for that?

2:35

That like, I mean, those are the

2:37

ghosts. Like, do you know what, like,

2:39

I can deal with a ghost. I

2:41

can't deal with a negligent ghost. That's

2:43

not cool. They better obey his rules.

2:45

Right? Saying it or else they're gonna

2:47

hear about it. I need to get

2:49

a Luigi board and send an invoice

2:51

to someone. Yeah, I know. This is

2:53

not on. You gotta say, just go

2:55

home, put your finger down on the

2:57

table and say, not on my fucking.

2:59

So yeah, you got to show him

3:02

who's boss. Yeah, I don't mind you

3:04

being here. Just don't break me shit.

3:06

Yeah, exactly. That's my two cents. If

3:08

you do it again, you're getting a

3:10

knuckle sound straight to the face, your

3:12

invisible face. All right, man. So that's

3:14

your latest ghost story. It's now physically

3:16

affecting things. Yeah, yeah, annoy, annoyingly so.

3:18

But it's already gotten blood on your,

3:20

in your bathroom. That's just a bit

3:22

of a bit of a clean up,

3:24

you know, you know, you know, you

3:26

know, you know, you know, you know.

3:28

Now I'm out of a clean up,

3:31

you know. Yeah. Now I'm out of

3:33

a clean up, you know, you know.

3:35

Now I'm out of a clean up,

3:37

you know, you know, you know. Now

3:39

I'm, you know, you know, you know,

3:41

you know, you know, you know, you

3:43

know, you know, you know, you know,

3:45

you know, you know All right, well,

3:47

you know, it's, uh, Malibu Mike is

3:49

back again Hollywood O'Hara. Folks are itching

3:51

to hear about it. You know, every

3:53

week I know it or ask, Mike,

3:55

what movies have you watched? We need

3:58

to know what to watch. So, uh,

4:00

today, folks have got a, actually, well,

4:02

I was kind of slacking, okay, last

4:04

week. One of the movies is the

4:06

old one which I've seen before, but

4:08

I've recently rewatched, re-watched, but it, but

4:10

it's seven. Oh, that's a great movie.

4:12

What's in the books? What's in the

4:14

book? Come on! It's so good. Seven

4:16

holds up incredibly well. I think it

4:18

might be one of the best trailers

4:20

ever made. It is very good. I

4:22

love the whole scenery, like the dark

4:24

and the rain. It's just yeah, it's

4:27

so moody. Yeah, it's brilliant. David Fisher

4:29

is so good at getting the atmosphere

4:31

of the movie. It's just really really

4:33

It's stunning it's it's yeah it feels

4:35

so gritty and sort of weird movie

4:37

it's sort of like a whole movie

4:39

feels like it's in a dream I

4:41

think the whole movie is probably supposed

4:43

to be set kind of in purgatory

4:45

hell yeah because it's like anachronistic because

4:47

it's like anachronistic because it's like there's

4:49

computers but Morgan Freeman's character Somerset he

4:51

uses like a typewriter you know what

4:54

I mean there's like technology is like

4:56

it all kind of all over place

4:58

you never actually it again you notice

5:00

like a lot of weird things. It's

5:02

very unspecific and just weird. I was

5:04

real, yeah, not, I was gonna say

5:06

dream like, but it's more like a

5:08

nightmare. Yeah, it's cool. But it's so

5:10

good. It holds extremely well. Even Kevin

5:12

Spacey noted a peat of all predator,

5:14

but yeah, Brad Pitt is and Morgan

5:16

Freeman are just awesome. That scene, the

5:18

guy, what, what, Sloth, do you know

5:20

when he's like in the bed? And

5:23

he's been there for like years or

5:25

something? Right, yeah. That's like hands me

5:27

out. Yeah. Yeah. Is alive? Yeah. Yeah.

5:29

It's really good. It's so horrifying as

5:31

a movie. So folks, you probably already,

5:33

you've probably all seen seven, but you

5:35

know what? It deserves a rewatch because

5:37

it really is a brilliant movie. Okay.

5:39

So the other movie I watched during

5:41

the week was a sequel to a

5:43

movie Keith you and I watched a

5:45

couple of years ago. I watched Smile

5:47

smile too. Oh yeah, yeah, I've heard

5:50

really good things about Smile 2. Yeah,

5:52

I thought it was great. Yeah, I

5:54

really, really liked it. We watched Smile

5:56

1, I think, before we even started

5:58

a podcast. Yeah, I really liked it

6:00

as well. I thought, before I started

6:02

on having you on the podcast, we

6:04

elbowed your way into the co-shities. I

6:06

got an email, I'm not leaving it!

6:08

But yeah, I like The First Smile.

6:10

I would probably say maybe it was

6:12

the first and still a little bit

6:14

better. But I thought Smile 2 was

6:16

great. Sequals are always very hard. Yeah.

6:19

Especially for these kind of movies. I

6:21

thought it was really cool. Oh, it

6:23

actually has Kyle Guller in it. as

6:25

well, who I was praising last week

6:27

in Strange Darling. Yeah, yeah. He's in

6:29

Smile 1 and he's in Smile 2.

6:31

He's not in it for very much.

6:33

Okay. The opening scene of Smile 2

6:35

is extremely good. He's in it and

6:37

it's all like one shot. Yeah. It's

6:39

like really long one shot. Very, very

6:41

cool. So yeah, as you guys know,

6:43

just you get cursed if you see

6:45

somebody like. Is it kill themselves? I'm

6:48

not actually quite sure what the curse

6:50

is. But they start. Yeah. So this

6:52

curse slowly drives you insane. But so

6:54

the person who gets cursed in small

6:56

two is this kind of singer pops

6:58

there. She's very successful who kind of

7:00

had like a mental breakdown for a

7:02

year after being this horrible car crash.

7:04

Now she's kind of having this horrible

7:06

car crash and she's kind of having

7:08

this horrible comeback and she witnesses. in

7:10

Smile 2 is actually quite a good

7:12

actress. Okay. Unlike M9. That's our daughter,

7:15

his daughter. Yeah, by the way. I

7:17

didn't know that was M Light Shine

7:19

on his daughter. Okay, yeah. No. I

7:21

look at her back. Because she's fucking

7:23

terrible. She wasn't great. She's like the

7:25

worst part about it by far. Maybe

7:27

it wasn't that good. Yeah. Maybe it

7:29

wasn't that good. Yeah. But she was

7:31

that good. Awful. Awful. Could have ended

7:33

so much better. Yeah, but yeah, no,

7:35

I agree. But small too, yep, thought

7:37

it was great, good, very good, very

7:39

good, spooky movie. It's nothing to write

7:41

home though, you know. Would you watch

7:44

it again? Yeah, I probably would. That's

7:46

how I judge all my movies. I

7:48

judge it on either. Would I watch

7:50

it again? Yeah, I probably would. Okay.

7:52

That's how I judge all my movies.

7:54

Okay. So good. I need to watch

7:56

it. I need to watch it. Yeah,

7:58

check it out. It's another of that,

8:00

but it's just a very well-made, good

8:02

horror movie, is some really good jump

8:04

scares and scary moments in it, and

8:06

mind-fook moments in it. The main character,

8:08

thought she was great, thought her performance

8:11

is very good. Yeah, just an all-round,

8:13

good horror movie. Yeah, highly recommended. Well,

8:15

I wouldn't highly recommend it. I'd say

8:17

semi recommend it. Yeah, I'd same ring.

8:19

I'd give it probably like a tree

8:21

three point five out of I'd give

8:23

it a three point five out of

8:25

five. So three point three. Maybe even

8:27

a four. You know, it's actually the

8:29

best we've ever seen books. I'd say

8:31

no, I'd give her like a three

8:33

point five to four. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

8:35

Anyways, all right, moving on. Let's get

8:37

in today's, today's tale. Folks, we are

8:40

picking up with one Carl Pan's ram.

8:42

Angry, angry man. Angry, angry man. Last

8:44

week we went through what made him

8:46

so, and his horrible acts, his predilection

8:48

for men's butts, frankly. Yep. I say

8:50

this jokingly, but it's quite horrific. And

8:52

the art of sodomy, as he calls

8:54

it. The art of sodomy. Okie-dokie folks,

8:56

so in last week's episode we look

8:58

at Carl's upbringing and his transition from

9:00

beaten down and abused kid to... Well,

9:02

doing literally that to anyone he could

9:04

find. Mainly men. He went on a

9:07

killing spree that, well, you would usually

9:09

say, you know, it would put someone

9:11

to shame, but no one else in

9:13

history could he have put to shame.

9:15

He literally has done like the worst

9:17

kind of shit imaginable. He's countless, countless

9:19

victims across the United States and abroad,

9:21

because he went international, baby. He started

9:23

off on a farm, then to a

9:25

reform school, then traveling across the USA

9:27

via trains, using countless pseudonyms, raping, robbing

9:29

in and out of prison and jail

9:31

dozens of times, robbing a former presence

9:33

house, having his own rape boat. So

9:36

it's like it's always so difficult. He

9:38

did he saw a boat. It turns

9:40

out? Wow. It's called coming full circle

9:42

into him being in prison now. The

9:44

implication. The implication. Yeah. Oh, well the

9:46

implication was strong. Yeah. And then he

9:48

left the US entire the US entire.

9:50

set sail for West Africa where he

9:52

found work on an oil company in

9:54

Angola and from there we continue the

9:56

year being I think it's about 1920

9:58

1920-1921 mmm is when we are now

10:00

so while in the town of Luanda

10:03

on On Angola's coast, Carl came across

10:05

an 11-year-old local boy, who he managed

10:07

to lure back to the Sinclair Run

10:09

site. Once there, Carl brutally assaulted the

10:11

young boy before bashing his head in

10:13

with a rock. Carl later coldly described

10:15

the killing in detail. I left him

10:17

there, but first I committed sodded me

10:19

on him and then I killed him.

10:21

His brains were coming out of his

10:23

ears when I left him and he

10:25

will never be any debtor. You know,

10:27

like, yeah, it's horrendous. But like just

10:29

when you think that he couldn't be

10:32

a bigger piece of shit, so before

10:34

he raped and murdered this young boy,

10:36

he'd taught he's, he'd give another shot

10:38

with the girls. And I mean girls,

10:40

so he bought an 11-year-old girl and

10:42

an 8-year-old girl. But believing needed him

10:44

to be virgins he returned him and

10:46

said he was done looking for girls

10:48

and returned his attention to young boys.

10:50

I can't believe that we're talking about

10:52

like children here. Yeah, it's sick. Yeah,

10:54

but I guess we can just add

10:56

slave owner to his ever-grown list of

10:59

scumbagery. Wow, it's weirdly enough that's not

11:01

even top of the list. No, it's

11:03

not. That's the thing. That's how I

11:05

only was. It was almost an open

11:07

secret among the local population that Carl

11:09

was the killer of the young boy,

11:11

but without direct evidence, nothing could be

11:13

done. Carl moved up the coast and

11:15

found digs in a fishing village where

11:17

he waited a few weeks for the

11:19

heat to die down. The moment it

11:21

did, Carl, hatched a new plan. He'd

11:23

heard about Europeans based in the Congo

11:25

being willing to pay a hefty price

11:28

tag for crocodile skins. He organized a

11:30

group of six local Angolans to go

11:32

with him on a hunt for crocodiles

11:34

to sell, each of whom he had

11:36

promised a cut off the profits. Little

11:38

did the men know, they weren't the

11:40

hunters at all. Carl was the hunter.

11:42

Once the crew had paddled snooze, far

11:44

enough down the river not to be

11:46

heard, Carl pulled a gun on the

11:48

men and killed all six of them.

11:50

Something he later said, he found surprisingly

11:52

easy. In his biography, he was really

11:55

patting himself on. the back here as

11:57

well. So he said to some people

11:59

of average intelligence killing six at once

12:01

seems an almost impossible feat. It was

12:03

very much easier for me to kill

12:05

them. He then went on to say

12:07

that any of the six men he

12:09

shot they were capable of killing a

12:11

12 to 15 foot long crocodile with

12:13

nothing more than sticks but he still

12:15

managed to get the best of them.

12:17

But he then went on to say

12:19

that he shot all six of them

12:21

in the back while he was sitting

12:24

at the back of the boat. So

12:26

like he's not exactly like a skilled

12:28

wonder here. Brave man, killing six men,

12:30

shooting in the back, they have spears,

12:32

you have a gun. Yeah, a real

12:34

hard man over here. Yeah, that's unimaginable

12:36

and an amazing feat. Oh, well done

12:38

for you, well done. Yeah. So,

12:42

while in any other context, all that

12:44

would be the most horrifying thing imaginable,

12:46

but in Carl's case, it's just another

12:49

drop in the ocean of evil. Getting

12:51

rid of the six bodies was a

12:53

given. Carl simply fed them to the

12:55

crocodiles, they thought they were there to

12:58

hunt. Once the deed was done, Carl

13:00

returned to Labido Bay, where he had

13:02

earlier hired the canoe and departed with

13:05

the six men. Knowing he'd been seen

13:07

with the victim despite dozens of witnesses,

13:09

he quickly relocated north of the Congo

13:11

river. eventually ending up in the Gold

13:14

Coast. Even with the substantial change in

13:16

geography, Carl knew he still needed to

13:18

get further away. So he turned to

13:20

robbing farms and homes until he had

13:23

enough money to buy himself passage to

13:25

the Canary Islands. Almost as soon as

13:27

he arrived, Carl managed to stow away

13:29

on a ship bound for Elizabeth, Portugal.

13:32

Unfortunately for him, his one man spree

13:34

in, Portuguese Angola, had made Carl a

13:36

wanted man even as far away as

13:39

Portugal itself. Without cash in his pocket,

13:41

a target on his back and his

13:43

face plastered unwanted posters, Carl had little

13:45

choice but to stow away once again.

13:48

This time, he was US bound. He

13:50

was coming home. Arriving back on US

13:52

soil in the summer of 1922, Carl

13:54

found himself some ambition in life. He

13:57

realized that... But that the one thing

13:59

he was good at was killing. So

14:01

why not make some money out of

14:04

it? He had designs in mind to

14:06

become a professional hitman, and he even

14:08

took the gun he had committed the

14:10

Angola Murders With to the Maxim Silent

14:13

Arms Company in Hartford Connecticut to have

14:15

a suppressor fitted. Unfortunately for Carl, his

14:17

knowledge of suppressors came from the movies

14:19

and his imagination, so rather than the

14:22

little pew sound he expected, 38 still

14:24

makes a mighty good crack. Do you

14:26

ever hear a suppressor on a gun?

14:28

They're still like, pooh! Yeah, they're loud.

14:31

Like it said, it just doesn't echo

14:33

that much. Yeah, it's not like James

14:35

Bond. It's like, you can still hear

14:38

it fairly loudly. Still a gun, like

14:40

it's like, instead of hearing it from

14:42

five miles away, you'll hear it from

14:44

maybe four miles away. Yeah, that's probably

14:47

about it. So that pretty much kicked

14:49

his dream of being a super spy

14:51

assassin in the box before it ever

14:53

got going. Yeah, and he basically blamed

14:56

not becoming the world's best hitman on

14:58

the silencer, not working. So he said,

15:00

and believe me, if that heavy caliber

15:02

pistol and silencer had only worked as

15:05

I thought it would, I would have

15:07

gone into the murder business on a

15:09

wholesale scale. Like, honestly, like, oh, that's

15:12

what was stopping you. Oh, that was

15:14

the only thing. Like, oh, only a

15:16

bad craftsman blames his tools. Exactly, Karl,

15:18

come on. Get your acting. Pull up

15:21

your roots. After abandoning a vague idea

15:23

to find and steal a ship, similar

15:25

to the sunken, I guess, though, which

15:27

we talked about in the previous episode,

15:30

that he could then, you know, rename

15:32

and use to begin his kidnap and

15:34

murders of drunken drunken sailors again. The

15:36

land of the witch trials! Well, well,

15:39

well. Salem, Massachusetts. He is so happy

15:41

about this. While out on the afternoon

15:43

of July 18th, 19- While out on

15:46

the afternoon of July 18th, 1922, Carl

15:48

crossed paths with 12-year-old George Henry McMahon.

15:50

McMahon had been hanging out at a

15:52

restaurant owned by his neighbor. Margaret Vines.

15:55

Around quarter past two in the afternoon,

15:57

Margaret gave McMahon 15 cents to go

15:59

to the local A&P store for some

16:01

milk for her when he came into

16:04

contact with Carl Panzran. Although Carl wouldn't

16:06

learn the boy's name for years to

16:08

come, he did chat with him, and

16:10

McMahon told him he was running an

16:13

errand for his aunt. Carl walked with

16:15

the boy, even following him to the

16:17

A&P store where he chatted with the

16:20

clerk too. Carl already knew what he

16:22

was going to do if he got

16:24

the boy alone. And he did that

16:26

by asking McMahon if he wanted to

16:29

earn 50 cents. Carl managed to persuade

16:31

the boy to board an abandoned trolley

16:33

or tram. And that was it. Carl

16:35

even told him who was going to

16:38

kill him. Over three hours, Carl assaulted

16:40

the boy multiple times in the worst

16:42

possible ways. He would very finally beat

16:44

him to death with a heavy rock.

16:47

Finally, for no reason other than his

16:49

own sick pleasure, Carl shoved bawled up

16:51

newspapers down the boy's trot. He hid

16:54

the boy's body in a nearby wooded

16:56

area. And though he was spotted acting

16:58

oddly while fleeing the scene, no one

17:00

thought to stop him. The boys' remains

17:03

were only found three days later, obscured

17:05

by brush, and, as with the little

17:07

boy in Angola, in Carl's own words,

17:09

his brains were coming out of his

17:12

ears. He later wanted to describe this

17:14

murder as the one he enjoyed the

17:16

most. Really? Yeah, this one has gone

17:18

in as kind of like his most,

17:21

uh, painus murder? The murder of Georging

17:23

man, yeah. Yeah, it's gruesome. The murder

17:25

was heavily investigated and splashed across the

17:28

headlines for several months. Carl, though, had

17:30

fled to New York right after the

17:32

murder. And despite several eyewitnesses having seen

17:34

Carl with the victim, attention instead was

17:37

focused on a local man, previously convicted

17:39

of sex offences against kids. Had Carl

17:41

stuck around, he certainly would have been

17:43

identified by the unique blue suit and

17:46

cap combination he'd been wearing at the

17:48

time. Once again, Carl's Kill and Move

17:50

Emma kept him free. to keep on

17:52

killing. We actually passed the house where

17:55

the boy lived in Salem. It was

17:57

around Proctor's ledge. It was around Proctor's

17:59

ledge. Yeah, Proctor's, which is where the

18:02

Walgreens or CBS was. The Walgreens, yeah,

18:04

it's right across from the Walgreens. Oh,

18:06

really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It

18:08

was on that like little, it's on

18:11

the corner across the Walgreens. Okay. On the

18:13

same side, it's a Proctor's ledge.

18:15

So after a brief stint as

18:17

a watchman with the Abico Mill

18:19

Company, Carl managed to steal himself.

18:22

It's like right there. It's a

18:24

bit of a walk for folks

18:26

who are familiar with sale. I'm

18:28

sure a lot of her listening

18:30

is no, but anyway has been

18:32

there. It's a bit of a walk

18:34

from like anything. But yeah,

18:36

it's a very regular spot in

18:38

the town. Nothing. Yeah, nothing. Wow.

18:41

Okay. And where you know. So

18:43

you're an. With a ship to sail,

18:45

Carl headed back to his old hunting

18:47

ground of Long Island Sound. Once there,

18:49

he docked his stolen boat at

18:51

a New Haven harbour and regularly

18:54

ventured to Connecticut to prel for

18:56

homes to burgle and vulnerable victims

18:58

to rape, rob, and if needs

19:00

be, murder. During one burglary of a

19:03

large yacht, Carl stole a 38

19:05

before finding the boat's papers, which

19:07

revealed the yacht and the gun,

19:09

belonged to the new Rochelle Police

19:11

Commissioner. In fact, that greatly amused

19:13

Carl. In June of 1929, Carl

19:15

reconnected with a 15-year-old boy

19:17

named George Wollison, with whom

19:20

he had previously groomed. After

19:22

he lured the boy to his boat,

19:24

Carl raped and assaulted him. With

19:26

the boy on board then, Carl sailed

19:28

the boat up the Hudson River.

19:30

He found a mooring in a small

19:32

day and used the guys of looking for

19:35

a buyer for his boat to try and

19:37

lure a new victim with cash on board.

19:39

It wasn't long before he got a bite, and

19:41

a man came aboard looking to buy the boat.

19:44

Carol was planning to get the man

19:46

drunk before robbing him. But before he

19:48

could, he noticed something off about the

19:50

man's behaviour. His suspicions were confirmed

19:52

when the man tried to pull a gun

19:54

on Carol, but Carl got the drop on

19:56

the would-be robber, shooting him twice in the face.

19:58

He tied a weight. the man's body

20:00

and true overboard. Later, Carl would

20:03

claim the man is still likely there

20:05

at the bottom of the bay. Oh

20:07

my god, this is so embarrassing. I

20:09

was going to kill you! Oh my

20:11

god! What are they chances? It's so

20:13

rare you're running the people in this

20:15

line of work. I know. It's just

20:17

great to meet a fellow colleague. I'm

20:20

going to kill you now. The next

20:22

morning, having witnessed the killing and being

20:24

assaulted several times already, George Wollison managed

20:26

to jump overboard and swim to shore

20:28

while Carl was in the middle of

20:30

stealing fishing nets to sell. George managed

20:32

to get away and immediately went to

20:35

the police in Yonkers and reported the

20:37

assaults by Carl who was going by

20:39

the alias Captain Jean O'Leary. Due to

20:41

the lack of accurate information, Carl almost

20:43

got away, but for once to please

20:45

her on the ball. Gotta appraise those,

20:47

you know, NYPD moves, get them, and

20:49

they managed to catch up with him

20:52

on board his yacht. He was taken

20:54

into custody on June 29, 1929. He

20:56

was soon thrown into solitary after a

20:58

failed escape attempt a couple of days

21:00

after being arrested. Finally! He failed in

21:02

his escape. Out of options, Carl managed

21:04

to get a hold of a lawyer

21:06

who he offered the 38-foot yacht as

21:09

payment for defending him and for his

21:11

services. His lawyer, the appropriately named Mr.

21:13

Kachin, actually successfully argued for Carl to

21:15

get bail and even posted the bond

21:17

money for his client personally. As soon

21:19

as Carl's feet hit the street, Carl

21:21

immediately, as you can imagine, ran away

21:23

and said, see you later in his

21:26

boy! That left Kachin to try and

21:28

register the boat that was his payment,

21:30

only to discover the boat was stolen.

21:32

Meaning it was confiscated by the police.

21:34

Kachin was down now about the forfeited

21:36

bail money and won 38 Fort Yacht.

21:38

Well that's what you get, man, yeah.

21:40

All I can say to that is

21:43

ha ha ha. It was really weird

21:45

reading this part in his autobiography. Like

21:47

at this point he talks about killing

21:49

so like nonchalantly and just like drops

21:51

it as if it was just... a

21:53

normal part of the conversation. So he

21:55

said, when he went to register the

21:58

boat, he lost her because the owner

22:00

from Providence came and got her. A

22:02

few days later, I went to New

22:04

Haven where I killed another boy. I

22:06

committed a little more sodomy on him

22:08

and also then tied his belt around

22:10

his neck, strangled him, picked him up

22:12

when he was dead and threw his

22:15

body over in some bushes. Then went

22:17

to New York and got a job

22:19

and got a job. Yeah, yeah, it's

22:21

really weird. In June, Carl, meanwhile, stole

22:23

himself a new boat from a marina,

22:25

which he promptly crashed off the coast

22:27

of New Rochelle. By August, now, boatless,

22:29

oh no! Carl was caught by a

22:32

cop while in the process of trying

22:34

to loot a train's luggage carriage, faced

22:36

with the prospect of returning to jail,

22:38

Carl decided to do the sensible thing

22:40

in his mind and charge the cop

22:42

while swinging an axe, like a madman.

22:44

After a fierce fight that, no doubt

22:46

had the cop lost, he would have

22:49

been brutally murdered, the officer was able

22:51

to get the better of Carl and

22:53

finally had him in handcuffs. He then

22:55

escorted his prisoner to the nearest police

22:57

station. Carl once again gave the alias

22:59

John O'Leary and admitted to several more

23:01

burglaries, hoping the law would go easy

23:04

on him if he just fessed up.

23:06

Instead, he was remanded into custody with

23:08

bail set at $5,000 to a await,

23:10

facing a grand jury. For some reason,

23:12

Carl decided to brag to his fellow

23:14

inmates at the time, and anyone who

23:16

got an earshot, that he was actually,

23:18

kept a lot of us folks, I'm

23:21

an escapee from an organ jail, yonks

23:23

and yonks ago, where he was serving

23:25

a 17-year sentence for trying to murder

23:27

a cop. That's after I was shooting

23:29

in a police car and all the

23:31

shit that he got up to in,

23:33

well, he talked about in the last

23:35

episode, but he kept busy. Yeah, yeah.

23:38

I reckon that he started admitting that

23:40

he started admitting that he started admitting

23:42

to this, kind of gaining some reputation

23:44

some reputation, some reputation. So he was

23:46

in his turdies now so he wouldn't

23:48

be able to compete with like you

23:50

know the young and tough 20 year

23:52

olds. I can't keep up with this

23:55

anymore. I'm tired. I'm a bit burnt

23:57

out from all the killing, you know.

23:59

So like I reckon he was just

24:01

trying to get back someone's reputation that,

24:03

which is all he really had now,

24:05

try and get some respect inside, you

24:07

know, instead of being like, instead of

24:09

competing with these guys, it's like, I

24:12

killed all these people, so you need

24:14

to respect me. That even makes him

24:16

more pathetic. Right, yeah, yeah, really. Initially,

24:18

the jailers didn't believe his brags and

24:20

presumed he was simply trying to get

24:22

himself moved to another jail to another

24:24

jail. They did, though, do their due

24:27

diligence and sent an inquiry to Oregon

24:29

State officials to find out if they

24:31

were, in fact, missing a prisoner. On

24:33

August 29, 1924, Larchmont Police Chief William

24:35

Hines received a reply from Warden Johnson

24:37

Smith of the Oregon State Penitentiary, notifying

24:39

him of Carl's 14 years left to

24:41

be served, and saying, Jefferson Baldwin, one

24:44

of... Pansaram's numerous aliases is wanted very

24:46

badly in Oregon. His was a noted

24:48

case that attracted considerable attention all over

24:50

the Pacific coast, and we are very

24:52

anxious to send an officer for him

24:54

at the earliest possible moment. And so

24:56

for turning himself in by bragging about

24:58

these crimes and saying he was a

25:01

wanted man in Oregon, guess what? Carl

25:03

was like, holy shit, they're actually, you

25:05

know, they wanted $500 for me. He

25:07

tried to collect on his own reward,

25:09

if you can believe that. He was

25:11

unsuccessful. In fact, Carl had little option

25:13

left at this point. In fact, Carl

25:15

had little option left at this point.

25:18

He knew he was in line for

25:20

a long sentence on top of the

25:22

14 years he already had coming. Escape

25:24

was pretty much the only way forward,

25:26

but the chances were few and far

25:28

between. It was at this time, while

25:30

awaiting for the Oregon business to get

25:33

all straighten out, that Carl wrote a

25:35

letter, seemingly to an old accomplice of

25:37

some kind. The letter was addressed to

25:39

a John Romero at an address in

25:41

Beacon, New York, not far from where

25:43

George Wollison had successfully fled Carl's ship.

25:45

In his letter, Carl appeared to threaten

25:47

this Romero, and descending him cash in

25:50

return for his silence in regard to

25:52

things he had done that Carl would

25:54

tell the police about. All of which

25:56

he promised to conveniently forget if Romero

25:58

sent him $50. The money never arrived.

26:00

Carl never got no $50 from Romero.

26:02

And authorities are actually never able to

26:04

identify John Romero, so whether or not

26:07

the man even exists that is a

26:09

complete mystery. Carl must have known the

26:11

cops would read the letter, look for

26:13

a Romero who may have not even

26:15

existed. Maybe Carl was just looking to

26:17

send a police on a mysterious while

26:19

Goose chase about some boogie man out

26:21

there who was even worse than Carl

26:24

or some shit like that. It may

26:26

have simply been his way of messing

26:28

with the law. I'd say so, like

26:30

it was well known that the prison

26:32

cards were going through all the letters

26:34

and said like probably looking for that

26:36

sweet sweet money, that birthday money from

26:38

grandma. But yeah, like it was well

26:41

known so like he would have known

26:43

they were going to read it. So

26:45

yeah, I think it was definitely a

26:47

wild goose, just. Yeah, and he never

26:49

revealed the truth behind the letter, so

26:51

we'll never really know. Ultimately, Carl was

26:53

indicted by a grand jury on the

26:56

burglary charges headed for trial, Carl knew

26:58

the writing was on the wall. He

27:00

instructed his attorney to get him the

27:02

lightest sentence possible in return for a

27:04

guilty plea and avoiding an expensive and

27:06

prolonged trial that was only ever going

27:08

to go one way. The deal got

27:10

Carl five years in Singh Singh Prison.

27:13

Actually a very good deal for Carl.

27:15

The Singh Singh part of the deal

27:17

though changed quickly. Carl was judged to

27:19

unruly and sent upstate to Clinton Prison,

27:21

aka Dana Mora. a far harsher environment

27:23

than sing sing which was in itself

27:25

no no picnic. Danamora I talked about

27:27

that in a video once before because

27:30

there was a very famous prison escape

27:32

from Danamora like it's up in the

27:34

Adirondacks or something it's like stranded by

27:36

marshes it's really really really notorious prison

27:38

for like the worst of the worst.

27:40

Right right so like no escape. Yeah

27:42

exactly but funly enough I was talking

27:44

about it because two guys escape from.

27:47

Oh okay. Yeah they literally did the

27:49

burying the burring through the walls like

27:51

Shaw shanks that were there. It's a

27:53

really. It's a really. It's a really

27:55

interesting story. It's a really interesting story.

27:57

It's. It's a really interesting story. It's.

27:59

It's a. It's a. It's a. It's

28:02

a. It's a. It's a. It's a.

28:04

It's a. It's a. It's a. The

28:06

guards at Clinton or Danumor specialized in

28:08

the prisoners who were considered uncontrollable at

28:10

other prisons, doling out beatings and routine

28:12

torture as casually as giving out Christmas

28:14

presents. Every day at Clinton, Danamora was

28:16

a non-stop fight for survival. It was

28:19

a competition between the prisoners who were

28:21

just trying to desperately cling to the

28:23

last strands of sanity they had left

28:25

in them, and guards who were trying

28:27

to beat it out of them. Just

28:29

like long back in the correctional school,

28:31

Carl had devised a plan to burn

28:33

the entire place down. He even got

28:36

so far as building an IED, an

28:38

improvised explosive device. How does he get

28:40

this shit? To his immense disappointment, the

28:42

device was discovered by a guard before

28:44

he could go true with it. Once

28:46

again, Carl found himself a nemesis. He

28:48

always needs a nemesis. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

28:50

yeah, yeah. A guard who Carl thought

28:53

had it in for him. One day

28:55

the guard fell asleep allowing Carl to

28:57

sneak up on him and smash him

28:59

in the head with a heavy hammer.

29:01

The guard survived but was seriously hurt.

29:03

Of course Carl was super proud of

29:05

the guard not bothering him again. It's

29:07

like Carl's like he stopped me from

29:10

blowing up the place and everyone in

29:12

it. This fuck has got out for

29:14

me. I'm gonna get him. Yeah. In

29:16

a moment of grand karma, Carl attempted

29:18

to escape by scaling a dirty foot

29:20

wall, only to lose his footing and

29:22

fall to the concrete steps below. The

29:25

impact was disastrous for him, and in

29:27

addition to breaking both his ankles and

29:29

lower legs, he also severely damaged his

29:31

back. That would cause Carl pain for

29:33

the rest of his life. I'll have

29:35

to say to that is, ha ha

29:37

ha. Rather than being taken to the

29:39

infirmary, Carl was dragged right back to

29:42

his cell, where he was left to

29:44

suffer in constant agony for over a

29:46

year. Finally, Carl was reluctantly allowed to

29:48

go to the hospital where they operated

29:50

and repaired and repaired what they could.

29:52

The surgery included Carl having one of

29:54

his testicles removed. What's wrong with you?

29:56

Well, I broke both my legs and

29:59

my back hurts a bit. Right, well

30:01

that test was going out to come

30:03

out. Exactly. Ball's first it is. Once

30:05

he had relatively healed up, Carl was

30:07

shipped back to his cell. Having learned

30:09

absolutely nothing from the 14-month-long ordeal, Carl

30:11

was caught raping another inmate and was

30:13

thrown into solitary for several months. In

30:16

his own words, he said, I tried

30:18

to see if my sexual organs were

30:20

in still good order. This was only

30:22

five days after his teskel was removed.

30:24

Also, like, they should have taken both.

30:26

They should have taken both. They should

30:28

just take both. He can't, he won't

30:31

try and, fucking rape anybody again. I

30:33

know, I'm like, it's not as if

30:35

they were like in good nick beforehand.

30:37

It seems riddled with gonorrhea. Yeah, man,

30:39

this is horrible. The only thing that

30:41

got Carl true, those long, nearly endless

30:43

days in a tiny concrete block, was

30:45

fantasizing about all the various plans he

30:48

had for killing as many people as

30:50

he could as he could as soon

30:52

as the chance presented presented presented itself.

30:54

He even came up with a plan

30:56

to dump poison into the village of

30:58

Danamora's drinking water reservoir. He later wrote

31:00

that he wanted to kill every man,

31:02

woman and child in the village. The

31:05

cats and dogs too. Luckily for the

31:07

people of the village, Carl wouldn't get

31:09

the chance. Honestly, if he did, there

31:11

is every likelihood that Carl would have

31:13

attempted to carry out the plan. I

31:15

really enjoyed reading through his delusional plans

31:17

for mass murder. So these went way

31:19

beyond just killing this village. So he'd

31:22

said it sites much much higher. He

31:24

was going to kill New York. He

31:26

was going to kill millions of people.

31:28

Oh wow. So his plan started simple

31:30

enough. Commit a few burglaries to scrape

31:32

together like a few hundred dollars. Okay.

31:34

So far, so good. Realistic. Like it.

31:36

Okay. Now that he was flush with

31:39

cash, the next step was to plant

31:41

a bomb in the middle of a

31:43

railroad tunnel and wait for a large

31:45

passenger train to pass true. So when

31:47

the bomb went off it would trigger

31:49

another secondary explosion releasing hundreds of pounds

31:51

of toxic gas that would kill every

31:54

living thing trapped inside this enclosed tunnel.

31:56

This is like sort of a wily

31:58

coyote though, style plan, isn't it? Oh

32:00

buddy, we're skinned starting. So once everyone

32:02

was dead, Carl, he'd be waiting outside

32:04

with a gas mask after ready. So

32:06

he planned a Walson into the tunnel

32:08

and robbed all the passengers. He estimated

32:11

that he could collect between 50,000 to

32:13

100,000 in cash and jewelry from the

32:15

three or four hundred bodies. Okay. Now

32:17

I said this was just phase one,

32:19

a moose-boosh if you will, what was

32:21

next to come? Okay. So next, he

32:23

would take his freshly stolen fortune and

32:25

head straight to the big leagues. New

32:28

York City. So Carl planned to steal

32:30

millions of dollars and kill millions of

32:32

people here. How would you ask? Well.

32:34

He was going to start a war

32:36

between England and the United States. Okay,

32:38

of course. You really are the most

32:40

devious bastard in New York City. So

32:42

he was confident that he could achieve

32:45

this by being a bit of a

32:47

finance pro and playing the stock market

32:49

through numerous brokers on Wall Street. Once

32:51

he had this money in place the

32:53

peace del resistance would be to and

32:55

I kid you not quietly sneak up

32:57

and sink some great British battleships while

33:00

in American waters using TNT with a

33:02

15 minute fuse strapped to the boat.

33:04

Now in fairness he did have experience

33:06

of sinking a yard a couple of

33:08

years ago so but at the same

33:10

time like he got caught for every

33:12

robbery he murdered plus he shattered his

33:14

body and lost one of his nuts

33:17

falling off a wall. So I'd give

33:19

him like a 50-50 chance. Wow it's

33:21

you literally like Dr. Evil stop here

33:23

like that's crazy. That's crazy you thought

33:25

he could pull this off. It's so

33:27

good. It's actually, it would be hilarious

33:29

if he wasn't so horrifying. I know,

33:31

and like, and in his biography, the

33:34

only reason that this didn't happen was

33:36

because circumstances and look were against him.

33:38

Ah, damn. I almost got to pull

33:40

it off. He's that close. A hairaway.

33:42

Carl was finally discharged from Clinton to

33:44

get him back to reality in July

33:46

of 1928. After five years of relentless

33:48

suffering, Carl was released onto the streets,

33:51

determined to kill and pillage his way

33:53

to hell. He immediately said about committing

33:55

dozens of burglaries. In Baltimore, Bodymore, Murderland

33:57

baby, during a robbery, Carl added a

33:59

no- other body to was already bloated

34:01

beyond belief tally. Carl was then arrested

34:03

for the final time and sent to

34:05

jail in Washington DC. For the first

34:08

time in years, when asked for his

34:10

name, Carl actually said Charles Pansiram. You

34:12

probably run out of names. Yeah, he's

34:14

just circled back to his actual name

34:16

again. Oh shit, that is my name.

34:18

After only just arriving at the prison,

34:20

Carl's latest escape plot was discovered when

34:23

another inmate grasped him up to the

34:25

guards. In retaliation, Carl was strapped to

34:27

a pole by his handcuffs and hoisted

34:29

into the air so that his feet

34:31

barely touched the ground. They left him

34:33

there to hang for nearly 48 hours,

34:35

all 200 pounds of him, standing six

34:37

feet tall. But even so, he was

34:40

still a fearsome side of a man

34:42

with broken legs and missing a nut,

34:44

with several large tattoos, including a large

34:46

anchor on his left forearm and on

34:48

the other arm under another anchor, was

34:50

a crude eagle holding the severed head

34:52

of a Chinese man, interestingly enough. On

34:54

his chest were two more eagles, along

34:57

with the slightly ironic choice of words,

34:59

liberty and justice. What an interesting man.

35:01

Right. Charles Panjoram is. Yeah, no, yeah.

35:03

What an interesting life he led. He's

35:05

lived quite a life, yeah. All the

35:07

time he was hanging, Carl screamed and

35:09

shaded treats and taunts at the guards.

35:11

Once more, the guards replied, by beating

35:14

the ever-living shit out of him. As

35:16

part of his taunting taunting of the

35:18

guards, Carl would tell them about the

35:20

children he had murdered he had murdered

35:22

and how much he enjoyed it, and

35:24

how much he enjoyed it. Those boasts

35:26

continued long after the guards let him

35:29

down. Carl just happily told the inmates

35:31

and the guards about the horrific deeds

35:33

and details of his life. And it

35:35

was around this time, late in 1928,

35:37

that Carl met a 26-year-old prison guard

35:39

named Henry Lesser, who seems to be

35:41

like the only decent person he met

35:43

in his life. And it's surprising that

35:46

Lesser took pity on him and was

35:48

actually nice to Carl. He was, yeah,

35:50

like it was only friend. there was

35:52

a couple of times when Lesor he'd

35:54

be in the prison cell with him

35:56

and like he'd have his back turned

35:58

to him and Carl he would like

36:00

you shouldn't turn your back to me

36:03

like well I know you're not gonna

36:05

know I know you're not gonna do

36:07

anything because you're my friend he's like

36:09

yeah I guess so. At the time

36:11

Carl was despised by his fellow inmates

36:13

and guards alike all except for Henry

36:15

Lesser for some unfathomable reason Lesor took

36:17

pity on Chuckkere on snacks and snacks

36:20

You could say that he was the

36:22

lesser of two evil? Ooh, very good,

36:24

my sir. Rather than immediately taking advantage,

36:26

Carl actually took these small kindnesses to

36:28

heart and the two men became friends.

36:30

I can just imagine Carl getting like

36:32

those Kauai eyes. Maybe the first and

36:34

only real friend Carl ever had. Soon,

36:37

Carl agreed to write down his life

36:39

story for Henry Lesser. The subsequent 20,000

36:41

word manuscript. covering from Carl's early life

36:43

and entry to the Red Wind facility,

36:45

all the way to his arrival at

36:47

the Washington Jail, has fascinated psychologists and

36:49

criminologists ever since. Carl goes into detail

36:52

about many of his crimes, as well

36:54

as giving a cold, honest, and surprisingly

36:56

articulate account of the inner workings and

36:58

thought processes of a sociopath and a

37:00

man who seems at peace with his

37:02

own evil. Yeah, it's such a rare

37:04

window into his serial killer's mind. Like,

37:06

most serial killers, they don't leave such

37:09

detailed accounts of their thoughts, motives, and,

37:11

you know, reflections. So, Panzram's writings, they

37:13

were really, they were a goldmine. I

37:15

also think it's fascinating, not only because

37:17

of his, you know, his unflinching honesty

37:19

about his crimes and his lacrimorse, but

37:21

also because his self-analysis of why he

37:23

was the way he was the way

37:26

he was. It was spot on, like

37:28

he hit the nail on the nail

37:30

on the nail on the head. So

37:32

he openly acknowledged the abuse, neglect and

37:34

violence he endured as a child and

37:36

how dad had shaped his worldview. Like

37:38

he saw himself as a product of

37:40

a cruel and unjust society. I guess

37:43

now we're all like, well yeah. Obviously

37:45

though. Yeah, back then though that would

37:47

have been. This is 1900s. Yeah, like

37:49

psychology, that was, it was still in

37:51

its infancy, especially when it came to

37:53

understanding the criminal mind. Yeah. So this

37:55

rare level of self-awareness, it was really,

37:58

it was ahead of its time. Still

38:00

not an excuse for his actions. Like

38:02

the man raped and killed children, but

38:04

it's hard to argue why he saw

38:06

the world waited. Yeah, I think that's

38:08

probably what even makes Carl so... so

38:10

much more scary as well because you

38:12

see a lot of serial killers and

38:15

monsters out there who are sort of

38:17

just like not much more than like

38:19

wild animals like they don't think about

38:21

these things they seem just like really

38:23

dumb they have zero self-awareness they just

38:25

want to kill people because they enjoy

38:27

doing it whereas Carl like he fully

38:29

knew what he was doing he fully

38:32

knew why he was way he was

38:34

And he still was like, yeah, I

38:36

want to be the most evil fucker

38:38

who ever lives. Yeah, it's like, I

38:40

blame all you and use it going

38:42

to suffer. I think that's what makes

38:44

him scarier, because he wasn't just doing

38:46

it on like instinct, like some serial

38:49

killers. He was on a mission. Yeah,

38:51

yeah. And basically one of his main

38:53

ideas of it was might makes right.

38:55

And that's how he lived his life

38:57

by being... as evil as he possibly

38:59

could because that's what he, you know,

39:01

believed might was, I guess, I don't

39:03

know, just wanted to kill people because,

39:06

and if he kills it, he's... Yeah,

39:08

whoever's more powerful there, the winner, I

39:10

guess, yeah. Exactly. I guess he felt

39:12

like he was the loser his entire

39:14

life. To Karl, there wasn't really any

39:16

moral right or wrong, just, just the

39:18

strong. Ultimately, whoever won the fight was

39:21

right. It's a really bleak philosophy at

39:23

best and a dangerous excuse for a

39:25

bully or worse, you know, at the

39:27

other end of the scale. Yeah, so

39:29

it's not the best outlook on my

39:31

voice. Like I guess like this ideology,

39:33

this was like literally hammered into him

39:35

as a child. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

39:38

So at this point, Carl was still

39:40

only 36 years old. Even now, after

39:42

a life of slaughtering his way across

39:44

the country and even a few continents,

39:46

Carl had never actually faced the decades

39:48

behind bars he was now staring in

39:50

the face. Finally, his chickens were coming

39:52

home to roost. The first major indictment

39:55

came down from Philadelphia on October 29.

39:57

It was for one of the last

39:59

and most recent murders Carl had committed.

40:01

on July 26th 1928 the strangling death

40:03

of Alexander Uzaki the man Carl killed

40:05

in the Baltimore robbery word of Carl's

40:07

capture also reached Salem Massachusetts where Carl

40:09

was wanted for the George McMahon killing

40:12

two witnesses were brought down to Washington

40:14

to see if they could identify Carl

40:16

as the man seen with the 12

40:18

year old that day and unfortunately for

40:20

Carl his distinctive features and his clothing

40:22

he was wearing that day combined with

40:25

the witnesses good memories well he was

40:27

on the hook for that too Soon authorities

40:29

from around the country were lining up

40:31

to talk to Carl about various crimes

40:33

and outstanding warrants. At the front of

40:36

the queue though was the warden from

40:38

Oregon State Penn who was very keen,

40:40

peachy keen to have Carl serve the

40:42

14 years he still owed him. Carl

40:44

knew the score. He was fucked. Royally

40:47

fucked. Carl wrote a letter to the

40:49

Salem District Attorney in which he openly

40:51

stated that he had killed more than

40:53

20 people and he even told the

40:55

DA of his written confession. To top of

40:58

all, he finished a letter by threatening, I

41:00

not only committed that murder, but 21 besides,

41:02

and I assure you here and now that

41:04

if I ever get free and have any

41:06

opportunity, I shall surely knock off another 22.

41:08

It's a bold move. Yeah, exactly. I see

41:10

if it pays off. Yeah, exactly. You know

41:12

what? Never let me out. Gonna kill a

41:14

lot more people. So I'll look forward to

41:16

that, though. Ball's in your course. Yeah. With

41:19

multiple life sentences charging for him,

41:21

Carl first faced trial for the

41:23

burglary he was being held in

41:25

Washington for, a trial for which

41:27

certified nook bear, Carl decided to

41:29

act as his own defense counsel.

41:31

The highlight of a generally inadequate

41:33

display of lawyering, to say the

41:35

least, came to a head when

41:37

Carl decided to cross-examine a witness

41:39

who had earlier identified him as

41:41

the burglar. Carl asked the witness, the

41:44

witness, Joseph Serwinsky, was completely bewildered. So

41:46

to clue him in, Carl decided to

41:48

run his finger across his throat and

41:51

tell Joseph if you continue to testify

41:53

me, this is what going to happen,

41:55

do you? I love it, just threatening

41:58

to witness in front of everybody. Carl

42:00

was immediately found innocent and let go

42:02

in opposite world. I wonder, is that,

42:04

what do you know, what happened? Yeah,

42:06

of course, it's obsolete. Damn it, you

42:08

got us. He was found guilty and

42:10

if the threats in front of a

42:12

jury weren't bad enough, Carl himself was

42:14

the next person to testify and then

42:16

just openly admitted to being guilty on

42:19

the stand, rendering the whole thing completely

42:21

pointless. The funny thing about that is

42:23

like, like he represented, like he represented

42:25

himself. On November 12th, 1928, Judge Walter

42:27

McCoy sentenced Carl to 25 years in

42:29

total. 15 years for count one, 10

42:31

for count two. As little fuck you

42:33

of a cherry on top of the

42:35

shit Sunday, Carl was to serve the

42:37

25 years at his favourite place in

42:39

the world. Leavenworth, Kansas. Even Carl had

42:42

a smile at the irony. His last

42:44

words to the court as he was

42:46

led away were, Visit me! On the

42:48

1st of February 1929, inmate 31614 arrived

42:50

at Leavenworth, where he was introduced to

42:52

Warden T.B. White. The warden went through

42:54

what he expected of Carl, and in

42:56

return, Carl told him directly what the

42:58

warden could expect of him. I'll kill

43:00

the first man who bothers me. The

43:02

thing was, it wasn't the threat. Carl

43:04

simply meant it, and the warden knew

43:07

it. As a result, the warden had

43:09

Carl held in segregation away from the

43:11

other prisoners and limiting his contact with

43:13

the prison staff. They did find a

43:15

job for him, working in the laundry.

43:17

The tasks he was given all meant

43:19

that he would, you know, have next

43:21

to no interaction with others and would

43:23

be alone most of the time, something

43:25

Carl was more than happy with. Still,

43:27

it didn't take long for Carl to

43:29

once again find himself a nemesis. Which

43:32

is, he always needs an enemy, always

43:34

needs that motivation. You know, they hate

43:36

us because they ain't us. He's like

43:38

one of those kind of guys. This

43:40

time it was his civilian supervisor, Robert

43:42

Warnkey. Warnkey had a reputation for being

43:44

a bit of a job as worth.

43:46

He would write prisoners up for the

43:48

smallest infraction and enjoyed it. Since at

43:50

Leavenworth, punishments were always severe, being written

43:52

up and, well, basically, it would have

43:54

dire consequences for you. Carl did stints

43:57

in solitary after Warnkey had written him

43:59

up, which was dangerous for Warnkey to

44:01

have done so. Carl's hatred for the

44:03

man finally boiled over into action on

44:05

June 20th, 1929. The two men were

44:07

in the laundry. Carl, folding clothes, Warnkey,

44:09

writing of paperwork. All of a sudden,

44:11

then, Carl, without prompt or warning of

44:13

any kind, he walked over, picked up

44:15

a heavy metal pole, about four feet

44:17

long, he then walked over to where

44:20

Warnkey was sitting, and mercilessly beat him

44:22

about the head until he was little

44:24

more than bone and blood and mush.

44:26

Killing to Carl was like opening a

44:28

can of wrinkles. So, without any reason,

44:30

then, Carl turned his ironbar to the

44:32

other prisoners in the laundry and then

44:34

began swinging for them. He's like, well,

44:36

in for a minute. Luckily for them,

44:38

a prison-wide alarm spurred a lockdown and

44:40

guards were able to subdue him at

44:42

gunpoint. After a brief standoff, in which

44:45

he casually admitted he just killed, Wornke,

44:47

Carl gave up the weapon and was

44:49

removed back to his cell. Just a

44:51

quick side note, Robert Wornke, he was

44:53

actually active in the 11-worths Kook Clux

44:55

Clan. Oh, just saying, just saying. That's

44:57

not cry over spill a little. Right,

44:59

I'd say that that. I said like

45:01

maybe if Padrau had to focus his

45:03

anger on guys like that, like he

45:05

could have been like, you know, like

45:07

the next puniture or broke out Batman.

45:10

So during all of this, Carl never

45:12

failed to keep up with exchanging letters

45:14

with lesser. Henry Laster is good old

45:16

buddy. The letters acted as an extension

45:18

of the 20,000-word autobiography and might even

45:20

be more insightful than the original document.

45:22

In one key letter, Carl attempted to

45:24

understand the new reformed conditions at Leavenworth.

45:26

After explaining that he figured that he

45:28

was going to be tortured and beaten

45:30

no matter what he did, he might

45:33

as well try and escape. means as

45:35

possible, well when he arrived it wasn't

45:37

quite that. Guards would simply return him

45:39

to his cell after he acted out

45:41

and just leave him alone. He said,

45:43

quote, no one lays a hand on

45:45

me, no one abuses me in any

45:47

way. I have been trying to figure

45:49

it out and I have come to

45:51

the conclusion that if in the beginning

45:53

I had been treated as I am

45:55

now, then there wouldn't have been quite

45:58

so many people that have been robbed,

46:00

raped, raped, and killed. Wow, finally he's

46:02

like, hmm. Now though, beginning on April

46:04

14th, 1930, Carl would face one last

46:06

trial, one last judge for the prison

46:08

laundry murder charge. The outcome from the

46:10

very beginning was pretty much nailed on

46:12

and Carl knew it. Once again, Carl

46:14

refused an attorney and entered a not

46:16

guilty plea. The prosecution called almost a

46:18

dozen witnesses, including the warden and each

46:20

of the men who had been in

46:23

the laundry at the time and had

46:25

directly witnessed Carl kill Warnke. The judge

46:27

took less than an hour to reach

46:29

a verdict. It was only ever going

46:31

to go one way. Judge Hopkins confirmed

46:33

the sentence and imposed a sentence of

46:35

death by hanging to be carried out

46:37

on the 5th of September. Carl took

46:39

the opportunity to threaten the judge. May

46:41

as well. Saying, I certainly want to

46:43

thank you, judge. Just let me get

46:45

my fingers around your neck for 60

46:48

seconds and you'll never sit on another

46:50

bench as judge. Okay, oh, wait a

46:52

minute. Almost got me there. Carl then

46:54

laughed out loud as he was led

46:56

back to his cell by U.S. Marshals

46:58

to await his execution. The time finally

47:00

came when Carl was taken from his

47:02

cell at 5.55 a.m. on Friday, September

47:04

5th, 1930. Around a dozen or so

47:06

guards and several newspaper reporters were the

47:08

only witnesses. Carl was escorted to the

47:11

gallows by two U.S. Marshals. The noose

47:13

placed around his neck, Carl was asked

47:15

if he had any last words, to

47:17

which he famously replied. Yes, hurry it

47:19

up you, who's your bastard? I could

47:21

kill a dozen men while you're fooling

47:23

around. That's amazing. He really hated people

47:25

from Indiana, I guess. With that, the

47:27

trapdoor was... sprung and at 6.03 a.m.

47:29

7 minutes after leaving his cell. Wow

47:31

that's so quick by the way it's

47:33

like seven eight minutes he's done. Carl

47:36

Pans-Ram's rampage was finally over. He was

47:38

pronounced dead 15 minutes later. He was

47:40

later buried in the prison cemetery row

47:42

six grave 24 only a stone bearing

47:44

his inmate number to mark the grave

47:46

and so ends the story of Carl

47:48

Pans-Ram a case as interesting as the

47:50

man himself was terrifying. He was such

47:52

an interesting figure that even in his

47:54

own lifetime, which is in the, you

47:56

know, very earliest days of psychology and

47:58

psychiatry, being anywhere near to recognizable things

48:01

we see them as today, several notable

48:03

intellectuals of the day, including a Dr.

48:05

Carl Menninger, who was a very famous

48:07

psychologist, he wanted to study Carl. A

48:09

lot of people wanted to study him.

48:11

They all found him fascinating, despite Carl

48:13

being openly hostile and refusing to play

48:15

the psychology game. By that point Carol

48:17

was just eager to get on with

48:19

the death sentence and it's a bit

48:21

of a shame that we didn't get

48:23

more out of him from a psychological

48:26

point of view because well he was

48:28

a pretty unique case for honestly one

48:30

of the most horrifying men to have

48:32

ever lived and what's worse is he

48:34

knew it and he knew why he

48:36

was the way he was and he

48:38

just wanted to keep on going till

48:40

the whole world burned. Very very true.

48:42

It's such an interesting case and like

48:44

he definitely had a tough childhood but

48:46

I think things really started to go

48:49

downhill after he was sent out reform

48:51

school at age 11 and he definitely

48:53

wasn't the only one let down by

48:55

this system. So this is what Carl

48:57

had to say about the reform schools.

48:59

What others may have learned by the

49:01

same treatment in other similar institutions I

49:03

don't know but this I do know.

49:05

that in later years I have met

49:07

thousands of graduates of those kinds of

49:09

institutions and they were either in going

49:11

into or leaving jails prisons madhouses or

49:14

the rope and electric chair was yawning

49:16

for them as for me. Wow and

49:18

there you go that's the story of

49:20

Carl Pahn's realm we shall leave you

49:22

there for today feaks yeah good one

49:24

yeah dark as hell yeah Kind of

49:26

like, he I think,

49:28

is the definition the definition

49:30

killer. It's hard

49:32

to top how vile

49:34

and evil he

49:36

was, you know? was, you

49:39

know? Oh, yeah, yeah, big time. Yeah.

49:41

All right, folks. well

49:43

so much for listening

49:45

to listening to the that chapter

49:47

means a lot

49:49

to me, and it

49:51

means a lot

49:53

to the me across

49:55

from me. Hope you

49:57

enjoyed this whole

49:59

episode across new episodes

50:02

of the podcast out

50:04

every single Monday

50:06

morning, the and listener out

50:08

up when we morning

50:10

them up, really. stories

50:12

up when we when we always,

50:14

them give him a

50:16

goo, as and so please

50:18

right, until the

50:20

next one, please take

50:22

care of each

50:24

other and yourselves. please take

50:27

care of each other and you.

50:29

You will. I'll say

50:31

right. Thanks, folks. Bye.

50:33

folks, bye, bye.