0:00

Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU

0:03

is considered especially watchable.

0:04

We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate

0:07

the vicious felonies. These episodes are based

0:09

on.

0:09

These are our stories, done done.

0:28

Yay, that's messed up. And

0:31

that's why did I just forget the name of my podcast?

0:35

That's us up, that's View

0:37

Podcasts. We're here episode

0:39

two ten.

0:40

Baby. My name is Liza Traeger

0:43

and I'm Kara Klank.

0:44

And in case you decided to hop on at episode

0:47

two ten, I'll tell you what we do here. We recap

0:50

an episode of SVU. We dive

0:52

into the true crimes that it was based on, and

0:54

we talked to a guest from the show. And today's

0:56

a good one. This episode is awesome

0:59

today. But before we get into it, we just

1:01

like to chat a little bit.

1:02

Yeah, wow, it's so funny, you said,

1:04

if someone just dives in. Because I was at

1:06

my coffee shop, and if

1:09

a few you know, you watch my Instant stories, you might

1:12

have heard this. But I'm wearing my sv sweatshirt

1:14

with an it like, I mean,

1:16

it's such a good crap. Like the fact

1:19

that Melinda and bet Wong are in this

1:21

it's just like my favorite aunt Craigan.

1:22

It's my favorite sweatsher. I mean, JK, my iced one

1:25

is.

1:25

But she

1:27

was like, lol iced Tea and Marishka

1:30

they're not really on it. That's like a weird group. I

1:32

go, what are you talking about? I go, this is

1:34

the core group. She goes, but they haven't really worked together. I

1:36

go, they've he's been on since season

1:38

two. I'm like, he's been on and he goes, but what about that

1:40

guy? I go, I go, much is dead? I

1:42

go, I don't. Do you not know about any of

1:44

this? She goes, oh, so you like know about

1:46

this? It's not just like a hipster shirt. I

1:49

go, no, it's from the

1:51

NBC store, not a

1:53

hipster shirt, babe.

1:54

I only said name three songs, and

1:56

you were like, fuck off.

1:59

I'm gonna tell you everything, you dumb

2:01

bitch. I see, and Marishka haven't been in

2:03

it. Yeah, if you're listening, I remember you

2:05

no. But then

2:07

I go, no, I actually have a podcast, and I told her about

2:10

I'm like, I'm about to go recap an episode

2:12

right now, and so

2:15

welcome if if you've decided, Yeah.

2:17

I just don't know even where you got the information.

2:20

That Marishka and Ica don't ever work together

2:22

and aren't the full main two

2:24

characters of the show.

2:25

It's so.

2:26

And then she said like she likes this other

2:28

show, and I go, oh, what's this other show?

2:30

Assuming it was like a Criminal Minds or a Bones,

2:33

you know, like what, But it was like

2:35

following people that are getting married for green

2:38

cards around and I go, what why? This

2:40

has nothing to do with anything the fuck?

2:42

But maybe we have a new listener, so welcome

2:45

listen.

2:45

You're recruiting them one by one.

2:48

Well, we obviously have a lot to talk

2:50

about. It's post Taylor, but I do

2:52

have to say. I'm in Toronto. I land

2:55

drop stuff off at the hotel, a quick change,

2:58

let's get into the city. Let's get into town. And

3:00

I see Bella Caresi in a window

3:03

of a cafe.

3:04

Amazing.

3:05

Yeah, well

3:08

yeah, but I'm letting the listeners know. I saw

3:11

Bella Caresi and it

3:14

was it took us o. I was like, I know her,

3:16

I know her, And then I went I think she's from Homeland,

3:18

which she is, which that was an exciting

3:20

brain power of mine. Oh yeah, And then

3:23

like forty five minutes into my lunch,

3:25

I went it's Bella Caresi, And so

3:27

it.

3:28

Was a thrill.

3:28

The IMDb of your brain just clicked in

3:31

during during soup.

3:34

I know, it is so funny

3:36

that like a

3:39

like your my Passion shirt can be

3:41

a hipster shirt that you spend one hundred and fifty

3:43

dollars on at a vintage shop.

3:46

I guess you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

3:48

for sure.

3:49

Oh and I know everyone wants to know about

3:51

Taylor, but I'm trying to get some other stuff off because

3:53

once I start, I feel like I'm not gonna be able to stop.

3:55

You know, Casey's waving every flag he can

3:57

find.

4:00

So also, I

4:02

went vintage shopping in my neighborhood in

4:04

New York and I found the exact shoot,

4:07

not like from the set, but

4:09

the exact Manolo blonics that

4:11

Carrie Bradshaw was meant to take off at the baby

4:13

shower episode. Oh my god,

4:16

the baby. So I put them on. It was

4:18

exciting. They were a size too big. I honestly would

4:20

have bought them for whatever I think. I think

4:22

I would have gotten them, but it

4:25

was it was a thrill. That's

4:27

cool, that's cool. The other

4:29

thing that's not Taylor that I just want to squeeze

4:31

in is So. I

4:33

you know, there's this tattoo artist I've been following

4:36

for a while, obsessed, and

4:38

they posted a flash sheet and

4:40

and I wrote, oh my god, love it come

4:42

to New York. I get an

4:44

email from the tattoo artist being like, hey, I'm

4:46

gonna be in New York in February, Like, these

4:48

are the dates? Do you want to schedule? I go, oh my god,

4:51

what a thrill. I'm thinking this the size,

4:54

these dates work for me. I get back

4:57

it's like, we need this deposit and then we'll

4:59

schedule a zoom to talk about stuff. And

5:01

I get the deposit infhone. I look at the email

5:03

and something about it. I go, I don't know about this, and

5:06

I DM the tattoo artist with a screenshot,

5:08

going, hey, before I venmo the money, I just

5:10

want to make sure this is you.

5:11

She goes, that's definitely not me.

5:15

Wait, so, how so

5:17

somebody hacked her and DMed you from

5:19

her account?

5:20

No, it was a Gmail. That's what made me suspicious.

5:22

It was like her tattoo

5:24

art was the like the photo,

5:27

it was her the name of the tattoo at

5:29

Gmail. So that was But I have a

5:31

Gmail, and I'm a legit person, so it's not like

5:34

it's not an absolute indicator. But

5:36

before I before I send three hundred

5:38

fifty dollars deposit.

5:40

Wow, I'm so glad

5:42

you fucking got the spidy sense

5:45

and you.

5:45

Like I got a lot of Spidey sense.

5:47

And it was like the pape, the Venmo of it all,

5:49

And then it was like why wouldn't she have DMed? But

5:52

also the name for the Venmo was a man's

5:54

name, and I go, this isn't a man. There's no amat

5:56

because I don't I don't know who the artist

5:59

is, like I've never seen them. It's just their work. But

6:01

it's a woman. It's like, so it's

6:03

like there's no way. But yeah,

6:06

so then I just wrote like nice try winky

6:09

face, but uh close.

6:11

Oh I like that you gave your uh you

6:14

gave the criminal a little bit of a

6:16

wink on the way out.

6:17

That's listen. It's a good scam like

6:20

to.

6:20

But I wonder if they saw it and were like, oh, let's try

6:22

to get Like I wonder if

6:24

this is their usual scam or

6:27

if it was

6:30

an opportunity crime, like a crime of opportunity,

6:32

Like I'm just curious, or if they scan tattoo

6:35

pages constantly looking for desperate

6:37

people like me being like come to my town or.

6:39

Yeah, or they go to this girl's page and they

6:41

just try to find anybody that they

6:43

that has commented or shared

6:46

any of her content and they set up a little email

6:48

to look like it. Yeah, it's like, you know, scammer,

6:52

be careful, guys. We are living in the golden age of

6:54

the scam honestly, honestly, wait,

6:56

can I say really quickly before we get.

6:58

Into I think you should and then you should have yeah,

7:00

yeah, question. I saw Wicked.

7:03

Yeah, I loved

7:05

it.

7:06

I thought it was so good, and

7:09

I will be honest, I have never seen

7:11

a movie musical that is

7:13

better than the stage for me, and

7:16

I don't know that it's better than this, because

7:19

like I loved seeing Wicked on Broadway so much,

7:21

but this movie is like gorgeous. It is

7:23

so amazingly done. It's

7:25

really pretty. And Cynthia

7:28

Revo is really great. I'm not like,

7:30

I'm not the biggest Ariana

7:33

fan. I'm not like a not a fan. But she really

7:35

kills it too. They're both really great. The

7:37

guy who's Fierro is great. I was gonna

7:39

say, it's a little bit. You

7:41

know, Michelle Yo can't sing, but

7:44

she's amazing. Jeff Goldblum

7:46

can't really sing, but he's amazing. I understand

7:48

in movies, you gotta know that.

7:49

They both got than Cynthia. No,

7:52

that's the whole thing. So I saw a post

7:55

that was like Arianna made a fifteen

7:58

million and Cynthia made a million. And

8:00

then of course it's like, well she is a drawn. It's like it

8:02

doesn't fucking matter. Hopefully she gets a back end deal.

8:04

Her agents are crazy, like, but this happened

8:06

in the Barbie movie where it was like Serai two

8:09

hundred thousand dollars or something like they fucking

8:11

do this to black women all the time. Oh my, But

8:14

people kept being like all right on arian And

8:16

then it's like to find out these two side

8:18

characters made more than Cynthia.

8:20

Hopefully it's not real, Hopefully it's online. But my

8:22

friend who I trusted, post this, So yeah,

8:25

it's annoying.

8:26

No, because she's literally the

8:29

heart of the whole movie. Is like it she like

8:31

even though it is like about the two, it's like

8:33

Cynthia Rivo's character like Alpha, but

8:36

is like the.

8:36

Main yes, of course, you know, like

8:40

she is spinning

8:42

in the air live singh sons. I

8:44

mean they are very pretentious. She is very

8:46

pretentious. Like these interviews are insane.

8:48

This is like I've never she

8:51

is the most theater person I think I've ever witnessed

8:53

doing press in my fuck.

8:55

You sound like someone who's not holding space for

8:57

the lyrics of defying gravity right now?

8:59

You know what, but holding a finger I love

9:01

holding a finger holding.

9:03

I was telling I was describing it to Jared,

9:05

and I go, not only is it so funny

9:08

because this woman brings up this completely,

9:10

this completely word

9:13

salady woo woo thing about holding

9:15

space for song lyrics. Then they

9:17

go, oh, I didn't know that was happening. Their reaction

9:19

is so serious. Then the woman who was interviewing them

9:21

goes, yeah, I saw a couple of posts. A couple of

9:23

posts, what are we talking about? And then

9:25

there's the finger touch. It's like every

9:28

single piece of it is like its own meme. It's

9:30

so funny. I love that so

9:32

much. I watched it a bunch of times. But

9:35

the movie is excellent. I'm

9:38

excited. It's two hours

9:40

and forty minutes. I didn't even notice I

9:42

didn't even notice. And I'm usually like, at

9:44

hour ninety, I'm like, how many more minutes do we have

9:46

left? And I didn't notice. I thought it away excellent.

9:49

Bowen is so funny in it. He seems like he's

9:51

improvising, and he's got a bunch of little moments

9:54

in there.

9:54

It's great. It's great. SpongeBob,

9:57

you know he's in there. It's

10:00

it's good. But I'm seeing it the friday

10:02

after.

10:03

I'm trying to implement a green and pink

10:05

dress code for the family, but only

10:09

the grandmas have responded.

10:10

I am being shunned.

10:11

I am being shunned, but I think we should

10:13

wear green and pink.

10:14

Why not, let's take a photo, like, I

10:16

don't know.

10:16

Yeah, it's it's kind of the

10:19

final it's the rush to

10:21

the inauguration, you know.

10:22

What I mean. I don't know.

10:23

Yeah, that's really all.

10:26

Get it all done well, speaking of things that well

10:28

buy.

10:29

This is what I was gonna say, though, really quickly,

10:31

because you just said inauguration.

10:32

Though.

10:33

It is wild when you're watching Wicked,

10:35

how much it just

10:38

maps up right to politics, Like

10:40

it really is right, it's perfect,

10:42

Like it's in the least

10:44

in the first part Glinda is like white

10:47

women who voted for Trump, and

10:50

like the Wizard is like

10:52

it's crazy. It's like a snake oil salesman, like

10:54

it's crazy. But you know, I just thought

10:56

that was really like spooky. All

11:01

right, Casey just gave us the ten minute flag,

11:03

which means we need to get into Taylor.

11:05

I have not talked to you. I've seen the social

11:07

media. I mean I

11:10

didn't.

11:10

I'm assuming were there any major issues,

11:13

hicc hops, anything or was it like smooth

11:15

sailing?

11:16

I love that that's your No, nothing went wrong.

11:19

It was great.

11:22

All my preparation thought I

11:24

did, everything worked out perfect. It

11:27

was like, yeah, it was

11:29

the best, and you mentioning things

11:31

flying by, like it went by so fast.

11:34

Every time she would go into a new song or era, I'm

11:36

like stop, stop, I'm ready,

11:39

like I need a moment, Like it just went

11:42

by so fast and was so perfect

11:44

and great. I also want to say it is so

11:46

wholesome, like all the outfits are so

11:48

fun, like I've never been I don't think it's to a

11:50

concert where people are that. Like

11:53

everyone is

11:56

intentional about their dressing, you know,

11:58

like even the most casual it's a shirt,

12:00

it's a nod Or. It's people that came

12:02

super early to get the tour exclusive

12:05

merch, you know, the blue brunetts and the half.

12:07

Tips, like it really is

12:10

so cute.

12:11

Okay, So I would say

12:13

from the flight immediately, like there

12:16

was like a lot of people, like you could tell that we're going,

12:19

and like

12:21

our hotel had balloons that

12:23

said eras and disco balls and step

12:25

in repeats and bead

12:27

making stations and everything was

12:30

just like full tailor. They had tailor

12:32

drag brunch like it was.

12:35

They were support an economy.

12:38

It's a full economy. It fully is

12:40

because outside of the concert, this

12:42

was the I also thank you everyone that came to my

12:44

show. That was really fun and exciting.

12:48

And are you guys

12:50

do not have to bring presents. Do not feel obliged.

12:53

You do not have to give me drugs. Appreciate

12:55

it of course. The thoughtfulness.

12:57

I mean you saw the Moodang, right, Yeah,

13:01

someone three D printed and hand painted

13:04

a fucking Moodang with Taylor

13:07

bracelets on its little little pause. I

13:09

mean, I can't even, I can't

13:11

even, but yeah, just

13:14

like such cute stuff and

13:16

fun bracelets. But anyways, overall,

13:19

yeah, the shopping, I got a trench, like the vintage.

13:21

The food I had the best wrenches. Like we

13:24

were out and about like every

13:27

little store, every neighborhood, every park,

13:29

like it was just crisp, gorgeous, Like I love

13:31

Toronto, such good food.

13:33

And I know I want to go. I gotta go spend more

13:35

time there.

13:36

All the restaurants too that have

13:38

like the best food, like chill Ambiance,

13:41

cool little kitchy lamps and

13:43

art and Seinfeld playing on

13:45

the TVs. You know I bought I bought Amrchat

13:48

from one of the bars. So Taylor

13:50

the tram to get like

13:52

that. They have street cars. The

13:54

stop was right outside our hotel, straight shop,

13:57

like thirteen minute walk, then to the

13:59

arena and then like to the stadium.

14:01

Excuse me.

14:02

And what's cool is like I asked a

14:05

worker outside, I go, hey, we're like gate five

14:07

and six, and she goes, but you want to see

14:09

the big Arab beads, right,

14:11

and we're like yeah, and so she led us like they

14:14

just everyone was in. We got

14:16

to see the big puffy beads from

14:18

I think New Orleans. So that was really exciting. And

14:20

then so no

14:23

line to go in at all. The seats

14:25

are incredible. The teens next to us

14:27

took such good photos of us. She goes, I'm gonna use

14:29

flash and then I was like, I've never looked better in my life.

14:32

And then like, I mean, these teens

14:34

are incredible, if you know, these two

14:37

glitter boat teens fantastic

14:39

women. And then we

14:42

are immediately with like a set of parents

14:45

from Hawaii. They came from Hawaii with

14:47

their daughter and daughter's husband to

14:50

do this like show and they ended up

14:52

being a big part of our experience there

14:54

because they got blacked out.

14:56

But oh my

14:58

god, I love it. Why I was hoping you would

15:01

make seat mate friends.

15:02

Yeah, but it was like she just got blacked

15:04

out and just was like come to Hawaii, and

15:06

it's like you need to shut the fuck up, Like I

15:08

don't.

15:09

Play around, Like I don't really play around.

15:11

But there was like a dad and daughter next to it, like everyone

15:13

was just cute little kids in cosplay.

15:15

There was like a glitter guy

15:18

with his girlfriend.

15:19

There was a couple that looked really like upset in

15:21

the front of us, But I feel like they

15:23

got into a fight. I have no idea fight at eras

15:25

come on before or they could just be

15:28

wet blankets as people but I was just

15:30

yea, sucks to be them anyways.

15:32

So that we went to walk around,

15:34

I mean I was not drinking at all because of the peace

15:37

situation. I did get like like

15:39

I don't really fuck Oh yes, what happened with

15:41

that?

15:41

Nothing? I didn't people never went.

15:44

Wow. I went twice before the

15:46

show and once after the

15:48

show.

15:49

Not that so not even

15:51

a thing I knew.

15:51

I didn't want to watch Grace okay, but the merch lines

15:54

were bananas, and

15:56

I resigned not to.

15:57

Go to it.

15:57

I'm like, I have enough bullshit, like I really don't

16:00

need this to complete the experience.

16:02

But then it was like, oh, I want to get something from

16:05

my niece. And then oh, but what about

16:07

the TTPD shirt?

16:08

You know?

16:09

So then it's like trying to think

16:11

about the lines along.

16:12

And then as we were exiting the bathroom,

16:14

they were reconfiguring the merch lines

16:16

in a way where we snuck right

16:19

into the middle of the line. What

16:22

some we only waited a half an hour? Wow,

16:25

it was like incredible. I got the shirt

16:27

I wanted, Like I couldn't believe it. I

16:30

got an all beef kosher dog with a

16:32

little bottle of water, sat

16:34

down and it was like I finished the hot dog

16:36

as the clock came on, and like Lady Gaga played.

16:38

I mean it was like incredible. Who

16:41

opened well gra c Abrams

16:43

jj Abram's daughter, and

16:46

I.

16:46

Don't know that's who she is, Okay, okay,

16:48

I've been hearing about her.

16:49

I Love close to You.

16:51

It's a great song and I heard it while I was in line to get a

16:53

hot dog. I'm not watching jj abrams daughter

16:55

live out her fantasies, like I don't care.

16:58

I don't care.

16:59

You could be a fan of hers, I will

17:01

refuse so like

17:04

but she plays. Gaga's applause

17:06

is the last song before the

17:09

like the two thirty Cops. So

17:11

that's so once that plays, you know it's coming. That's

17:13

like her pump up song. And it was

17:15

just like joyous from the start.

17:18

It was so cool. She is a Disney princess.

17:20

She looks amazing. I loved singing everything.

17:23

It was just awesome. It

17:25

couldn't have been better. I don't know what to say.

17:28

I gotta get by it. Nineteen eighty nine

17:30

I would say was the most electric era in

17:32

terms of like every I'm getting get together,

17:34

but JK, August and Willow rocked

17:37

my socks off, and then I facetimes Tommy

17:39

Max shout out for all two well, the ten minute version.

17:42

It is his favorite song. So that was

17:44

a thrill, but I

17:46

didn't want it to end. It was so cool.

17:49

I love the song.

17:50

Okay, So the secret songs, the

17:54

guitar one, it was mister Perfectly

17:56

Fine from Red and I like don't Care and then

17:58

better than Revenge from

18:00

Speaking Out, which I did like.

18:02

So that was exciting.

18:03

But two of my dream songs

18:05

were played on different nights of

18:07

Toronto, so two songs that

18:10

were in my top four were played,

18:12

just not when I was there.

18:13

And Marishka was at a night of Toronto,

18:15

I know, well, I think Sutton from Beverly Hills

18:17

was there the night I was there because her post

18:20

is like the outfit I also, I mean, I feel

18:22

psychotic for having these opinions, but it's like, yeah,

18:24

I was happy to see the outfits I saw, like I

18:26

loved our Midnights, the Midnight's

18:28

body suit.

18:29

I loved my lover body suit like I liked

18:31

the outfits that she chose for us.

18:34

And then the piano secret song was

18:37

State of Grace from Red and Labyrinth,

18:40

which I like from midnights, which

18:42

was fine. Yeah,

18:43

I didn't care,

18:46

you know, I like better than Revenge, and

18:48

it was fun and special. But then she like dives

18:50

into the fake water and like that's cool and

18:52

like fake swims.

18:53

Like I liked.

18:54

See, I'm glad I didn't watch the concert movie because

18:56

all the visuals were really surprising, and

18:59

like, oh, all the backup and also these

19:01

backup dancers lucky, I mean barely

19:03

having to dance, barely a move, like they're obviously

19:05

talented, not really, but like if they were doing Beyonce,

19:08

I bet they would be tired every night. I kind of skipping

19:10

around doing musical theater. It's like, yeah, we're a nice

19:12

gath, We're a.

19:13

Nice bath after Beyonce, I feel.

19:15

Yeah, I'm not saying it's not physically taxing

19:18

and they're not doing beautiful work, but it is, like,

19:20

I bet it's a great gig to have. I

19:23

loved our Willow dress like I did like all the outfits

19:26

she chose for us.

19:26

I love when she runs the stage for August I mean

19:28

that.

19:29

And there was one seat empty in our

19:31

rows, so I kind of got I didn't get the aisle,

19:33

which I usually love, but I

19:35

had a little extra.

19:36

Room to dance because one person didn't show

19:38

up. Can you imagine these tickets

19:41

are so much?

19:42

I just assume it's like a terrible accident.

19:44

Like that's where my brain goes. I'm like, oh,

19:47

I mean why else or you would try to make

19:49

you know, cash or something.

19:50

So I love it. Don't

19:53

blame respond. It's true.

19:55

All our outfits were good, and

19:57

then we had like,

20:00

you know, my show the next day, good food,

20:02

and then that Saturday before a flight, it was like

20:04

a full day. I got twelve thousand, I got

20:06

like between eight and twelve thousand steps every single

20:09

day in our name Whoa.

20:10

It was like awesome.

20:12

And then you got to see all the people still

20:14

coming into the hotel. There was still

20:16

tit playing tailor and non stop all

20:18

the stores. Every waitress had all

20:20

the bracelets like I gave them to flight attendants,

20:22

Like everyone was covered in bracelets all

20:25

over the city and airport.

20:26

It was pretty fun and that's awesome.

20:28

And all the TSA people, like everyone knew,

20:30

They're like, you're here for the show.

20:32

I mean everyone was.

20:34

It's kind of like it's truly like

20:36

a phenomenon, like the whole thing. It's really cool.

20:38

I'm glad you got to go. I'm so glad that it like

20:41

went off without a hitch.

20:42

You know, no, in terms of like no line there,

20:44

like every anxiety I ever have about

20:47

concerts did not happen here, and

20:49

it felt just so chill. And I do also

20:51

wonder if Canada had something to do with

20:54

the chillness. Like, yeah,

20:56

I do feel like people yell more in America

20:58

in terms of people that workout venues.

21:00

There's definitely more of a niceness for

21:03

sure.

21:03

But yeah, little kids in glitter everywhere,

21:05

just giving them bracelets like so fucking

21:07

cute. Yeah,

21:10

Toronto just like was awesome

21:12

and my show is awesome and I got to throw

21:14

out bracelets.

21:16

Oh you know what else?

21:16

I love?

21:17

There are certain songs where she just

21:20

does like the bridge and chorus, like

21:23

she doesn't do the beginning songs or all the

21:25

other verses, like she just kind of does like the

21:27

part everyone loves to sing and then move

21:30

on, got it? Yeah, yes, because there's

21:32

so many songs so like bad

21:35

Blood and Elicit Affairs,

21:37

she just kind of does the parts that we want

21:39

to sing.

21:40

Yeah, It's like when I went to see Mariah

21:42

Carrie, she just did like thirty minutes

21:44

of like a montage of all her best

21:46

songs of like that weren't Christmasy, and

21:48

that was like, you know, it was like amazing giving people

21:51

what they want, you know, absolutely.

21:53

And the energy

21:56

was just select her. And on the way out, I

21:58

ordered Domino's. That was way to at

22:01

the hotel. When we got back, ready

22:04

there the tram was easy, Like

22:07

it really was just a phenomenal

22:10

experience.

22:11

Wow, it sounds like Toronto maybe is your

22:13

new Orlando, you know, maybe you're

22:15

gonna move there.

22:19

Yeah, and the Gadbury, the

22:21

drug stores, you know, all the little experiences

22:23

of being in a different country are fun too.

22:26

That's awesome. Well, I'm glad you had such a good time.

22:28

I was obviously

22:31

following stories and it looked awesome.

22:35

But before we get started,

22:38

just want to shout out this episode's coming out

22:40

on December tenth and December

22:42

twelfth is the last day that you

22:44

can order merch from our store

22:48

while and get it there in time for Christmas.

22:50

So if you're if you're a person that celebrates

22:53

Christmas, or you'd like to have it by December twenty

22:55

fifth, place an order today or tomorrow

22:57

and get that in. We have our do you have children

23:00

detective stuff? We have some

23:02

cute stickers left over. We have our

23:04

Christmas ornament. It's not too late to get that

23:06

up on your tree. And oh

23:08

I got to ask them to send us one. I want one, but

23:11

uh, because we're getting our tree this week, baby. And

23:14

yeah, so go to That's messed Up live dot

23:16

com or the link in our Instagram bio that

23:19

has our shop link. You

23:21

can also check out Lisa's going

23:23

to be in Red Bank on the nineteenth

23:27

and I don't know everything else Brooklyn

23:31

on the twenty. Oh my god, what a fun little Christmas

23:33

show.

23:33

Then just in life,

23:36

like you know, I will be touring

23:38

next year. I think there's yeah,

23:41

tons of emails I have to respond to and confirm

23:43

a bunch of dates.

23:44

So yeah, so get

23:46

on there and then yeah,

23:48

get and and That's messed Up Live dot Com

23:50

also has a link to like Lisa's website

23:53

that tells you all the dates and stuff, which

23:55

it takes to your link tree which has all your dates. And

23:58

uh, I'm still

24:01

doing my other show called Who's the

24:03

Bitch If you guys want to give that a listen as well.

24:05

It's on the Last Podcast Network.

24:07

Give me a listen over there, and

24:10

yeah, I hope everyone's holiday seasons are going

24:12

great so far. Let's dive into today's

24:14

episode.

24:19

Al Right, we are doing smoked

24:22

Season twelve, episode

24:24

twenty four.

24:26

Yeah, you don't really eat smoked things, do

24:28

you. Uh uh?

24:30

Stuff that smoked is really not for me. You

24:33

know, it's like even smoked

24:35

mozzarella. I'm like, nah, I don't

24:37

like it.

24:40

All right, well I'm diving in

24:43

Season twelve, episode twenty four

24:45

a finale.

24:47

I mean, we're in for a ride

24:49

a huge, huge jep A

24:51

cannon.

24:53

Yeah, yeah, this would

24:55

be you know, yeah, nine

24:57

one one is in cannon.

24:59

This one just some like high

25:01

end episodes.

25:02

If you were gonna make like a time capsule of

25:04

like SVU episodes like this one would be going

25:06

in for sure.

25:07

One hondo.

25:09

So it starts with a mom and daughter walking after

25:11

getting a prom dress, and the mom is so

25:13

grateful to be getting her daughter a good dress

25:16

and she's a good girl who's not planning on drinking,

25:19

and the mom is very proud of her.

25:21

Did you drink a prom? I didn't

25:23

go to prom? Oh you didn't, Okay,

25:27

I drink?

25:29

Yeah? I would have bet my money on that one for

25:32

sure.

25:33

So the daughter says, well, I'm proud of you

25:36

too, and you're gonna do great next week.

25:38

And right at that moment, a man with a

25:40

hoodie breaks them apart. The mom does a tug

25:42

of war with the purse and then finally lets

25:45

him have it, but he doesn't

25:47

walk away. He walks right up onto

25:49

her and shoots her straight in the head

25:51

and leaves the daughter and runs off. The girl

25:54

is obviously upset her mom has been shot

25:56

and is bleeding out of

25:58

a violent killing. Like it's very

26:00

so gruesome. Yeah, it's great.

26:02

I don't even really get how they do it

26:04

because it goes right up to her head and like

26:06

then she goes back and you immediately

26:09

see the bullet hole, like it's a it's it

26:11

was a lot, very nice.

26:13

Yeah, it's upsetting. Benson

26:16

and Stabler are on the scene. They're ducking under

26:18

caution tape, ready to work. But there's no sex

26:20

crimes, so what are they doing here? The

26:22

victim's daughter specifically asked for Benson

26:25

and Stabler to be called Benson Caesar

26:27

sitting on the back of the ambulance and goes, oh my

26:29

god, that's Jenna Fox. She runs

26:32

into Olivia's arms. She's crying and

26:35

you know he killed my mom. Stabler

26:37

says Annette Fox. Her rape trial

26:40

was starting next week to the EMT

26:42

and the girl cries into Benson's arms,

26:44

right, you know, up until the credits. So

26:48

we're back and we're at the office. Benson's

26:50

comforting Jenna in wood room

26:52

blinds. Stabler is in the outside

26:55

glass like damn. You know, we had an

26:57

open and shut case until now.

27:00

And this happened two years

27:02

ago. It went to she went to

27:04

a grand opening of a salon in Soho. The

27:06

Ada says, oh Luke ronson

27:09

a stylist who thinks he's a rock star.

27:11

I'm familiar now this eightya.

27:14

Who are you a girl?

27:15

Who are you? Sherry

27:18

West?

27:19

She's played by Francy Swift in

27:22

five episodes, and she's not even

27:24

in the first or second of the Nondescript

27:27

nor Memorable Adas. She's in third

27:29

place of who is this woman? But

27:33

she's here, She's here. You do

27:35

not know her, Okay, she is

27:38

just an inanimate kind of woman.

27:41

This is so rude. She's a human. But it's

27:43

just funny that they had a parade of women

27:46

that didn't really work out. And is that when they brought

27:48

in Barbara, Oh.

27:51

My god, I like don't know.

27:52

I just feel like Habit and Novak

27:55

were just so good and they weren't

27:57

really able to crack that energy

28:00

again.

28:00

With these same women.

28:01

They were definitely trying, and like Jillian

28:04

Hardwick, like all these other ones, like it just wasn't

28:07

was not popping.

28:08

Yeah, Finn says, yeah,

28:10

and he's a rapist. And then so

28:13

what Ronson did is invites her to the back,

28:15

and next thing she knows, she's waking up in a cab

28:17

with pain. And if

28:20

you guys are wondering, like, wow, is Liza struggling

28:22

to breathe? I am. My

28:25

nose is stuffed. I am struggling.

28:28

So if I sound underwater,

28:30

it's how I feel. Ronson

28:33

invites her to the back, and next thing

28:35

she knows, she's waking up in the cab. There's pain

28:38

and the pant and also pain and panties

28:40

together. It's very hard to say, but

28:42

the panties are ripped. There was GHB

28:44

in her bloodstream, and they found JHB

28:47

at the salon. Him and

28:49

his trainer claimed they used GHB

28:52

in the gym okay, but

28:54

Finn knows when the mom hit the stand,

28:56

the guy would go behind bars.

28:58

But why did the case take two years?

29:00

So basically a lot of diversionary

29:02

emotions and a lot of tactics to

29:05

delay. So it's all very suspicious

29:07

that there was like this perse snatch a week

29:09

before the trial, but no one buys

29:11

it. There's two security cameras,

29:14

but we do need Jenna, so we're back in woodroom

29:16

blinds. She sadly did not see his face,

29:19

and she's doing the classic like I should have

29:21

done this, I should have done that, And Benson's

29:23

like, girl, you would have been dead too,

29:26

so we need you here and you did

29:28

everything right. Stabler goes,

29:30

hey, like before tonight, did anything? Okay,

29:33

that's not the tone. Okay, So Stabler's

29:35

like, hey, what

29:39

up girl?

29:42

Hey?

29:42

Boom boom.

29:46

Stabler's like, you know, has anything

29:48

weird happened before tonight?

29:51

And I guess last week she did see someone

29:53

staring at her in the dark on a sidewalk

29:55

in the house. Yeah, that's fucking crazy. They

29:57

also were getting a lot of prank phone call

30:00

and then she calls him a gutlass prick

30:03

and Finn finds proof of eighty seven

30:05

calls to the mom's cell thirty

30:07

six to the landline, all from the same

30:09

number. Of course, a disposable phone,

30:12

but this phone was bought one block

30:14

from Luke's salon. So let's see

30:16

what this dirt bag has to say for himself.

30:19

Benson and Stabler go to harass them at

30:21

work, and he is, you

30:23

know, a big classy hairstylist, straight

30:25

man vibes. And I know this man as

30:27

a fellow or a fellow. No one

30:30

here is doing this as a former salon receptionist.

30:33

There's always like one super

30:36

hot straight man stylist and

30:39

he's usually got some funky tattoos

30:41

and a little haircut, and it's

30:43

a vibe.

30:44

It's a vibe. Yeah.

30:45

One of Jared's old coworkers who's

30:47

like beautiful and like friends with like a lot

30:49

of famous people. She married

30:51

a big male hairstylist

30:54

like this exact vibe. But I don't think

30:56

this guy necessarily has. He's not hot,

30:59

but like, yes, you're talking about

31:01

Yeah.

31:02

So if Isaac Fromilio

31:04

Salon, if anyone remembers

31:06

him and you listen to this podcast, I want

31:08

to know where you're at.

31:10

But I'm curious.

31:12

I am curious.

31:14

Okay, So they obviously screamed really

31:16

loud for everyone to hear about the rape

31:18

trial At the salon, he calls the rape

31:21

a misunderstanding. They bring up the murder.

31:23

He acts like he has no idea she's

31:25

dead. He was having dinner with his publicist,

31:28

Marriette.

31:29

It's not a name.

31:35

His lawyer yells, don't say another word,

31:37

Luke as he waddles his way in. It's Hashi

31:39

Horowitz, all right, and he's wearing a Columbo

31:41

style trench and Stabler

31:43

says, oh, here comes the douchebag.

31:46

So they know they have to leave.

31:48

But before they go, Benson says, be careful,

31:50

ladies, he might shoot you in the

31:52

head during your die job. So we

31:55

gotta go talk to the publicist. They

31:57

did have dinner. She's at a sexy

31:59

bast skeball shoot for a client. This

32:02

woman's in a mini dress dunking. So

32:04

that's really cool.

32:06

Isn't it. So this is one of those scenes where I'm like.

32:08

They set up this whole thing just

32:11

as background, like they cast

32:13

somebody. They set up a full photo shoot as background,

32:16

just so the stylist could have something to do.

32:18

I mean, they could have met the stylist outside of her office

32:20

building.

32:21

You know what I mean.

32:21

But instead they're like a woman a model

32:24

is dunking like they like they really

32:26

spare no no detail

32:28

or expense.

32:30

NBC Baby, big Bucks, big

32:32

Bucks. Dinner was done

32:34

by seven point thirty, she says, and

32:36

then he went to Saint Anne's. He volunteers

32:39

at the homeless shelter every Tuesday for the last

32:41

two years. And Benson's like, oh

32:43

so right after he got caught raping, good idea

32:46

pre girl. She goes, no,

32:48

he's a giver. You're wrong about him.

32:50

So they go to the homeless shelter, and of course sister

32:52

Peg is there. She's obsessed with this guy.

32:55

He cuts hair for the homeless and checks for lice

32:57

and you know, it makes people feel good about

32:59

them elves and ready for job interviews

33:01

and that he's a good man. Staber's

33:04

like, okay, but he is also a rapist, and Sister

33:06

Peg is like, you know, all people

33:08

are accused and all convicted, YadA

33:10

YadA, and it's like, fuck off, bitch.

33:12

You know how the system.

33:13

Works, and it's like stacked

33:16

against victims of sex crimes, So like, don't

33:18

play these accusation games. But you

33:21

know what do I know, but she has to take

33:23

all the help she can get, she says. So Stabler

33:25

wants to know who he gave cuts to

33:28

the Tuesday of the shooting, but she says

33:31

that he had to leave a leave abruptly,

33:33

that he was doing the cuts and then left. So Stabler

33:36

has a sly look. Well, who was his last

33:38

haircut? And it was someone named Eddie Skinner.

33:41

So this guy has long, shaggy hair and

33:43

is in the shelter attitude. He

33:45

goes, you know, I didn't get a cut, and

33:47

he says, I didn't want to cut that day because

33:50

Luke felt preoccupied and you know, he

33:52

wasn't interested, but he and

33:55

he left in a rush and ran for the door.

33:57

But when he grabbed his bag, he felt like he saw

33:59

a gun in the bad and so and

34:01

an amazing character choice. The guy

34:03

SIPs coffee and then spits it all back

34:06

out into the cup.

34:07

I just like this guy. I have no comment on

34:09

it.

34:09

I've noticed that too, and I was like, this

34:12

is funny.

34:12

This guy is good.

34:14

This guy, this actor's name is Michael

34:16

Raymond James and he has like

34:20

only fifty five credits, but like he's been

34:22

in like not only only that's a ton.

34:24

That's a ton. But he was.

34:25

He was a big character on OC. There

34:28

was a season two of OC. He was

34:30

like a big boss of like of I

34:32

think, like an Armenium crime family or some

34:34

kind of crime maybe a Greek crime family.

34:36

But he is like the head of it for eight episodes.

34:38

He's very scary, but he's also

34:41

in I don't know, like tons of

34:43

other stuff. Once

34:45

Upon a Time was a big show. He was on for like

34:47

thirty five episodes.

34:49

Whow So we go to

34:51

Luke Ronson's house, okay, hairstylas

34:54

and the maid doesn't want to let them search, uh,

34:56

but it's and she really.

34:57

Has his back for some reason.

34:59

But being oh, they find everything they need, a

35:01

nine millimeter right next to a box of amo

35:04

the black hooded sweatshirt. So back

35:06

to the salon they go, you know, drop the scissors.

35:09

He's acting cocky, but they put handcuffs

35:11

on him and scurry him off. The woman in

35:14

his chair is like, wait, what about can

35:16

I reschedule?

35:18

She's like mid die, She's like,

35:21

who's gonna who's gonna do my highlights?

35:25

Over his shoulder.

35:26

Stabler turns his head and says, in

35:28

about twenty five years. So

35:30

we're in cement room bars. He denies

35:32

the murder and Benson is like, yeah, you also

35:35

denied the rape.

35:35

We hate you. Your word means nothing to us.

35:38

We found the gun in your closet at

35:40

your home, but list six prove it's the one

35:42

that's shot a net. You're done, and hello,

35:45

you can't have a gun with no permit in New York. He

35:47

says he has a permit in Arizona. The

35:49

detectives are like, damn, Arizona gave a crazy

35:51

nut like you a gun.

35:53

Not surprising. He says, I'm not

35:55

crazy? Oh really?

35:56

Then why has the trial been delayed eighteen

35:58

times? For your stress related disorders?

36:00

So which one is it? Is it delayed because you're

36:03

stressed and crazy or are you chill and lying?

36:05

He gets stressed and Hashi, you know,

36:07

he comes through. He's good as a job. He's

36:10

shutting it down, going shut up, Luke. It's

36:12

getting heated. They're circling him like

36:14

two sharks, close to his face, and Hash

36:16

is pleading don't say a word. Please, don't

36:18

say a word. They're like, tell us what you did?

36:21

You lose her? He's stuttering to say

36:23

something. Hash is screaming don't say

36:25

anything. Then the fucking Eightya decides

36:28

to interrupt at this moment, and Benson's face

36:30

is like, bitch, I will fucking kill you. She

36:32

is livid. She says Luke is not their

36:35

killer, so that sucks. CSI checked

36:37

the gun. It's not the right gun, bummer,

36:40

so it's not the right hoodie either. There's a different

36:42

logo, so he gets to walk again. They

36:44

have to cut him loose. Sabler knows

36:46

something's wrong here because he looked

36:48

worried when they had him up against the wall and

36:51

he's walking out, back to being cocky

36:53

real quick, real quick. They get in

36:55

a cab and leave, and in that moment, the daughter, Jenna,

36:57

sees all this happen. She runs to Benson, like,

36:59

what the fuck you're letting him go? He rate my

37:01

mom and they're like, you know,

37:04

he's not the killer, and Benson's

37:06

like, we're trying, We're trying. She and Jenna

37:08

goes, oh, everything is falling apart.

37:11

The trial's off. My mom is dead. We

37:13

trusted you. She's like, I'm I was supposed

37:15

to go to prom. Now I'm burying my mother

37:18

and Benson goes, we just any time, and

37:20

she spins back like, bitch, it's been

37:22

two years. I put my faith in you, and now

37:24

I have nothing.

37:26

No one.

37:26

She speed walks off at it here

37:29

and Luke gets out of the car at

37:31

his salon. Stabler and Finn are following him,

37:33

and it's a full fake out. He doesn't go back

37:35

to work. He starts taking a walk. He walks

37:37

to the shelter and Finn knows

37:39

he hasn't seen him before, so Finn goes, I'll

37:41

go in there to spy. He says, hy does

37:44

Sister Peg, who calls him Odafin. So

37:46

just something I caught, Like, I

37:49

wonder why she uses the full name.

37:51

No one really does.

37:52

That, Yeah, I

37:54

think I remember always Sister Peg always does

37:56

that. I wonder if that was like a thing where

37:59

she may that the actress made the choice, or

38:01

like if it's scripted.

38:02

It's interesting.

38:03

Yeah, yeah, she points

38:07

maybe that's the tut Maybe that'll be my svu

38:09

tattoo otafin

38:12

Tutuolan's in fine script

38:15

under my titty. She

38:17

points him to Luke, who's talking

38:19

to a shaggy hair dude from earlier that

38:22

like told on him and they're fighting, arguing

38:25

intensely. He sends Stabler

38:27

a pick and he's like, that's Eddie. That's

38:29

the guy who saw the gun in Luke's bag. So

38:31

Stabler runs to go inside. Finn walks

38:33

up to him slowly, but shaggy Hair throws the

38:35

table at him immediately, like they

38:38

know this is a career criminal, and

38:41

he starts running out the door, but Stabler is

38:43

there to punch him in the face and arrests his ass.

38:45

Finn takes Luke with him and they throw Eddie

38:47

into cement room bars with Stabler. Luke

38:50

is in the other cement room bars with Finn and he's

38:52

like, listen, Eddie. Would I knew Eddie

38:54

was trouble from the moment I cut his hair.

38:57

Finn is like, bro, are you sure you don't want your lawyer?

39:00

He breathes deep, I need to tell the truth. He

39:02

says that he hired Eddie to harass

39:05

it that so she wouldn't show up. He

39:07

didn't say to kill her. It cuts back to Eddie

39:09

saying he didn't kill her. Sailor says,

39:11

but we found the phone on you that you used to harass

39:14

her quick. I found it in the park quick.

39:17

Like this guy really knows how to lie. Luke

39:20

says he bought the phone and

39:23

gave it to Eddie to call her, harass

39:25

her, stare at her across the street. That

39:27

he paid Eddie five hundred dollars and it would

39:29

be five thousand dollars after the trial falls

39:31

apart. Luke says he ran out early

39:33

because Eddie was trying to squeeze him out for more

39:36

money and being annoying, and he wanted to kill

39:38

her because he was pissed that she yelled at him

39:40

and he was just like begging to smoke

39:42

the bitch take a drink, and

39:45

he just really wanted an intimidation situation,

39:48

really innocent seeming. So Eddie

39:51

asks for his phone call. Stabler comes out

39:53

of the room and says Eddie's Eddie is the shooter.

39:55

Benson's like, I kind of believe the rapist

39:57

right now, Sherry, what do you?

39:59

What do you say?

40:01

She thinks we need the gun he used to kill

40:03

her, So let's get back to searching. But

40:05

we can arrest Eddie on assaulting a police

40:07

officer and then we could charge Luke

40:09

with harassing and intimidating a witness. But

40:12

she doesn't want to lock them up together, so they have

40:14

time to plot and schemeshit. So

40:16

Luke's gonna go in the cage and then Eddie's

40:18

gonna go and lock up downstairs. Eddie

40:21

starts screaming on the phone for someone to get him out

40:23

of there. Stabler cuffs him

40:25

again and carries him to lock his ass

40:28

up. They're having a sassy banter. Eddie

40:30

says that he wanted to be a cop and Sabler

40:32

goes, well, you have to.

40:33

Care about people. Lol.

40:37

Eddie says, you don't know me, and Sadler's

40:39

like yeah, and nothing makes me happier. Benson's

40:43

on the phone with Jenna filling her in

40:45

and how they file the guy there

40:47

and they have to find the gun. Central

40:49

Booking is here to bring Luke down, So they open

40:51

the cage and he walks out to get cuffed and

40:54

be taken. Stabler brings him to

40:56

the van to take him to Central Booking, but

40:58

Eddie Skinner's not there. Sabler is like, what

41:00

the fuck? The drivers say, we

41:02

cleared the whole room. He wasn't there. There's nowhere

41:04

he could be found. Every prisoner was accounted

41:06

for. Sailor's like, who the

41:08

fuck let him out? And then the UNI guy's

41:11

like, oh yeah, I let him out about an apple

41:13

hour after you put him in. Some

41:16

fed took him. And so they're

41:19

like, why would the FBI need this little rat?

41:21

So, but it wasn't. It wasn't the FBI.

41:24

It was at f I

41:26

don't know, a haul tobacco firearms.

41:29

Oh

41:32

okay. Sailor's like just

41:35

like what the fuck. But

41:37

the guy goes, listen, I got my orders from one PP,

41:40

the chief of Organized Crime Control. So

41:42

Benson and Sablor and Sherry head down to bat

41:45

FE, New York. Uh not

41:47

to be confused with the BAFTAs the

41:52

acting award in England.

41:56

So they go to some office. They talk to a special

41:59

agent Greer. O, holy shit, it's Pedro

42:01

Pascal. He is not the guest.

42:03

So you guys don't have to think about

42:05

that. You know, we

42:08

have an incredible guest. I'm very thrilled and

42:10

young. It is a thrill.

42:13

It's really a thrill to see uh, to

42:15

see him in this and yeah, it's

42:18

exciting to He's so much sexier

42:20

now, I would say, yeah, more

42:23

rugged.

42:24

He's like a good old boy here, like a little haircut

42:26

tight. I like him.

42:27

I like I'm a little older and shaggy. Oh

42:31

yeah, I wrote, he's so young and dorky looking,

42:33

not the hunk that we know today. But

42:36

what a career, what a man. So he

42:38

denies it, like why would Eddie be here? Who

42:41

says he is here? And Benson goes our

42:43

eyes and they

42:45

see him through the window in the interview room. So

42:48

why is Greer lying that he's here. He's like, yeah,

42:50

he called me and I got him. It's just a minor

42:52

assault charge and they're like an assault

42:55

on a cop and he's the main suspect and a murder

42:57

of a rape victim. And this dude chuckles

42:59

and quickly Benson goes, is there something

43:01

funny here? He doesn't

43:03

think Eddie can be a killer. He busted him three months

43:06

ago for transporting on tax cigarettes across

43:08

state lines and selling them to bodegas.

43:10

So he flipped him, and you

43:12

know he works for him now and there's a huge operation

43:15

on cigarettes smugglers. Who cares? Who

43:18

cares cares the tobacco?

43:20

This is where you get fucked with, Like I don't

43:22

do a shit. I don't care if they're fake cigarettes.

43:26

They're not even fake cigarettes. They're like playing

43:28

a tax game.

43:29

They're just buying someplace cheaper and then selling

43:31

it in New York for the price and keeping the profits

43:34

right, Like you can get a pack of cigarettes in

43:36

the South for like eight dollars when they're fifteen

43:38

dollars in New York City.

43:40

That's all they're doing. I think.

43:42

Yeah, yeah, it seems like

43:44

a lot to waste government resources on, that's

43:46

for sure.

43:47

Yeah.

43:48

So, yeah, this big bus is happening cigarettes.

43:52

But this man could have killed a woman in cold blood.

43:54

Uh.

43:55

They say, we're not leaving without him, and he says, yes you

43:57

are. Stabler walks in, calls him a dirt back, and arrests

43:59

him. Eddie's like, wow, you're fighting over me.

44:01

I'm touch Petre is like he

44:04

is not leaving this building and they're

44:06

like, fuck you.

44:07

So they take him.

44:08

We're now at forty four John Street to do

44:11

the bus and he's doing it with Sabler

44:13

in a Newsy's hat. Eddie's like, they

44:15

trust me, and Sandler says they're dumb as

44:17

hell and fuck the cigarette bus.

44:19

This is a fucking waste of my time. They're really

44:21

funny to.

44:22

Get it, so, they are really funny, but it is

44:24

so wild to me how they just always put Sabler

44:26

undercover, even though he has the most cop look

44:29

of all time, Like they're always like, oh, let's

44:31

send him in as an underground smuggler. It's

44:33

like he has a cross tattoo

44:35

on his arm, he's wearing a Newsy's hat like a denim

44:37

jacket.

44:37

He looks like a fucking cop. Like

44:40

he just is the most copy cop looking

44:42

guy.

44:42

And they're like, yeah, don't believe he's gonna

44:45

smuggle animals or cigarettes

44:48

or needs a baby like I

44:50

don't know, there's so much, or.

44:52

Going to a rave. Yeah, the

44:56

rave is the ultimate.

44:57

But Eddie is like, well, next time we do this, maybe

44:59

I can and wear the hat. So

45:04

they're walking through a busted down place

45:07

and a black Mercedes pulls in and it's a guy

45:09

named Phil. He's old, he's

45:11

wearing leather, and he goes, who's your friends, and

45:14

you know he's so Stabler's playing a guy that owns

45:16

bodega's around the city. Well,

45:18

Eddie says bodega and it's weird. The

45:21

Stabler character that he created goes corner

45:23

stores.

45:24

Yeah, he says convenience stores because

45:26

he's being he's trying to make them sound more respectable.

45:29

Like he thinks bodega sounds like to you

45:32

know, like street

45:34

or something like that. And

45:37

they agree that Eddie is mold that

45:39

will grow on you.

45:41

And he's like, why would an upstanding businessman

45:43

like you do a shady scheme?

45:45

Edie?

45:45

He starts talking about taxes, and so

45:48

Eddie says, listen, you have a sure thing and

45:50

he wants in. So they do a business chat

45:52

back and forth on a deal, and he wants

45:55

to see the product, and they keep asking questions.

45:57

There's a muscle type of man. He's

45:59

like, what else, princess, and Saber's like, nobody

46:01

was talking to you. And Phil goes

46:04

easy tiny and there are so

46:06

many boxes and it's the whole warehouse

46:08

is full of smokes, and Saber leaves

46:10

Eddie behind and goes to look at the boxes. They

46:12

keep talking business. It feels like a full Shark

46:15

Tank episode. So they're shaking

46:17

hands and then we see all these spy

46:19

iPad computers. The signal isn't

46:21

working, so they can't see what's going on in the warehouse,

46:24

and Pedro goes, whatever we're charging in

46:26

and Benson goes, what the fuck, Like they didn't do the

46:28

signal yet, stop you

46:31

know my friend could be in danger, but he doesn't

46:33

care, and he's yeah, He's like, I don't I don't

46:35

care. So Benson size they all head

46:37

in. Boom boom, boom. They're still doing the business

46:39

deal. It's three hundred thousand dollars.

46:41

Bam.

46:41

The cops come in, all hands up. Eddie

46:43

takes the chance to run and the FBI

46:46

man runs after him. Eddie slams him

46:48

with a pipe. He's bleeding on the ground. Eddie

46:50

gets away and then Bloody Boy

46:52

says, well, we did the bust, and Saber

46:55

goes, well, there goes my killer, and you

46:58

know, Stabler and Benson or the hospital check on Pedro.

47:01

Benson gets a call from Finn

47:03

as Stabler approaches him a

47:05

baby boy. I'm calling Pedro baby

47:07

boy, and Pedro is

47:10

apologizing for going in too fast and that

47:12

he's sorry. Stabler's not having it.

47:14

It doesn't matter how many times you say sorry. My

47:17

Ada is gonna flip out for losing this guy,

47:19

and he's like, yeah, yeah, I screwed up.

47:21

Let me alone, So Finn.

47:24

Finn's messages that the gun wasn't at the homeless

47:26

shelter and his sister Peg has not seen

47:28

Eddie either, so they're like, you know

47:30

his ass, where can we find him? He goes,

47:32

I don't know, the Bahamas. He's like he

47:35

was singing of retiring. They're like, retiring

47:37

this guy is. He goes to the homeless shelter.

47:39

He needs cash? What do you mean the Bahamas?

47:42

Stabler gets an idea. His eyes go wide.

47:45

They know where he needs to go get more

47:47

money. Luke ronson he owns him five

47:49

grand. The trial did fall

47:51

apart. He never paid Eddie all the money

47:53

he owed him, and they were right. So Benson and Stable

47:56

arrive. We would hear both their voices. Eddie has

47:58

a gun to his head and he's trying to get

48:00

cash out. Luke is inn a vest. Eddie

48:02

says, Stabler, give your car keys

48:05

and me and the rapists are going to go for a ride.

48:07

And they're like, are you dumb?

48:08

We're not letting that happen, and he says

48:10

my way or his brain hits the wall, and

48:13

it's like, okay, well we want him to die anyway,

48:15

so we don't care. He keeps screaming,

48:18

threatening and they're like, we'll kill both of you. We don't

48:20

give a shit, and we have a perfect shot Eddie

48:22

gets scared, so they arrest him and the gun he had

48:25

on him is the right gun.

48:26

It's a match.

48:27

We're in cemet room bars and they're like, you're

48:29

going down for murder one, you're

48:31

going away for life. He says, I want a

48:33

deal. I can give you evidence that he rapes a

48:35

net and they're like nice. Try, They're like,

48:37

she's dead. There's no case because there's no testimony,

48:41

and Sherry goes, no, we did a preliminary

48:43

hearing and Luke's lawyer did cross

48:45

examine her, so the testimony can be read

48:48

to the jury, but we do need corroboration.

48:50

And that's when Eddie says, yep, pop goes the

48:53

weasel and the deal will be twenty

48:55

five years instead of life. And

48:57

you know he could get out, so you

49:00

have and give us the scoop.

49:02

It's a good deal, and he wants even

49:04

better, and she says final offer,

49:07

and they all turn around to leave and he bites.

49:09

So he goes Luke and I went out.

49:10

We made the deal to harass her, and he told her

49:13

all the details of the rape, how he drugs

49:15

her, got her into the back room, and how sweet

49:17

it was and so stable asked, did he ask

49:20

you to shoot a net? He goes, no, I smoked

49:22

that bitch on my own. So he is a

49:24

killer and fuck off, he goes,

49:26

she had it coming. He's disgusting. They

49:29

look at him like the scum he is, and they say

49:31

we got a deal and plan to leave, but he says,

49:33

well, if you turn it down to murder three, then

49:36

I haven't even juice your story where

49:40

he got the gun he used to shoot her. So

49:43

they go to Pedro Pescal and

49:46

he's like, what's up and they go, well, we're

49:48

not here for a pat on the back, and they

49:50

show him the gun. He denies knowing what it is,

49:52

and the bosses like, oh, you sure about that, and

49:55

finally Pedro has a look of worry on his face.

49:57

So they're in cement room bars with Pedro and

50:00

they tell him that Eddie says that he got the gun

50:02

from you. He's like, wow, you guys are

50:04

idiots for believing him, and they say no,

50:07

you're an idiot for giving a gun to a known

50:09

felon. So he keeps denying

50:11

it and the boss finally leans down and goes, okay,

50:14

well, then tell me how this gun is the missing gun

50:16

from short Fuse, which was an undercover

50:18

plan from last year in Texas where

50:21

they gave weapons to Mexican arms smugglers,

50:23

hoping to track their movements through certain drug

50:26

cartels. And then one gun was used

50:28

to kill a border patrol agent. And that's

50:30

this gun and it was a bad op, says

50:32

the boss. Pedro gets loud

50:35

and bangs on the table and says it was a good op.

50:37

Eddie says, the only way we could figure out how

50:40

drug runners were getting their supplies. And

50:42

then when it all fell apart, Pedro asked for

50:44

a transfer up there to Texas. He scooped

50:47

up all these guns, scratched off the serial numbers,

50:50

and a year later the heat died down and

50:52

you got a new job, and you gave it to your c I

50:54

Eddie, and Eddie told him

50:56

he was going to use it for production. And Benson goes,

50:58

and who's the idiot now, He's like,

51:00

what the NYPD don't have informants and Sailor

51:03

raises his voice, Yeah, and we don't hand over our

51:05

weapons to them. He says he

51:07

didn't know he was gonna use it to kill that woman, but

51:10

Benson says, until he did, that's

51:12

why you let him clock you at that crowbar because

51:14

you wanted to make him and the gun go away.

51:16

He knows he's been got. He's a bad guy. He

51:19

starts to beg and say how they don't

51:21

understand, but they do, and he's just

51:23

you know, he's just as responsible for a net

51:25

steth. His boss takes his gun and his

51:28

badge and goes, you're done. Stabler cuffs

51:30

his ass. He looks at his boss like you're gonna

51:32

let them do this, and he goes yep, and then I'm

51:34

gonna shake their hands when they're finished, and

51:37

his baby Fait, you know, he's gone.

51:39

It is wild too that he just put his whole career

51:41

on the line for like a cigarette bust. It's

51:44

not like it's like, oh, I'm saving all

51:47

these traffic children or like anything

51:49

like that. It's like it's cigarettes.

51:51

Yeah, yeah. And

51:53

they put him into the cage.

51:55

At the pre Sainton, Eddie and Luke, you

51:57

know, it's a big ass gross party start

52:00

yelling at each other. Sister Peg is there talking to

52:02

Benson and and then Stabler walks

52:04

over after he locks them up, So Sister

52:06

Peg has even more evidence. She has photos

52:09

of Annette and the daughter she found

52:11

with Eddie's shit and Eddie's

52:13

handwriting and has her addresses

52:15

written down and all the places she at.

52:18

We're hoping this gives Jenna some closure.

52:20

Then Finn is holding the phone and says, wow, you

52:22

can actually tell Jenna in person.

52:24

She's downstairs.

52:26

She's on her way up, so she walks for the elevator

52:28

and Olivia meets her, like, hey, girl, I

52:30

was just gonna call you. She's like,

52:32

I heard you found my mother's killer. And it's

52:35

Eddie and he's a lifelong criminal. He sucks.

52:37

Luke hired him. And she asks them about Luke and she's

52:40

happy that his trial's back on. She asks

52:42

where they are now, and they're like, honey, you know, twenty

52:44

feet away in the cage. She walks in

52:47

besides Benson and sees the men in there, and she

52:49

stares them down. She heads back

52:51

to the elevator and she's a little shaky and

52:53

like fucked up. Benson walks back

52:56

into the office and then we hear bang, bang bang.

52:58

We see Jenna like Jenna

53:00

is holding a gun. She's shooting in the

53:03

cage, full gunfire. She shoots

53:05

the men in there ten gun shots a minimum

53:07

but so many bangs and after

53:10

the cage, though, she points out, she shoots

53:12

sister Peg in the chest.

53:14

Sister Peg goes down.

53:16

Stabler is behind her and behind a desk

53:19

holding a gun and he has to shoot

53:21

Jenna dead because she won't stop or

53:23

drop the gun. So Benson's trying

53:25

to help sister Peg. She's in shock. Jenna's

53:28

crying and deciding whether to put the gun down

53:30

or not. But Eddie's not dead yet, and

53:32

he calls her a crazy bitch and then says

53:34

I should have killed you with your mother. So

53:36

she picks the gun up, and right before she could

53:38

shoot him again, Stabler shoots her right in the middle

53:41

of her stomach. He runs to her kicks

53:43

the gun out of her hand. There's blood coming out

53:45

of her mouth. A Stabler holds the back

53:47

of her head up and she says, I just bought

53:49

it off the street. It was easy. She

53:52

struggles to breathe. She's dead. She

53:54

shot a team dead. Benson's mouth

53:57

is still open, fully in shock. Stabler

53:59

is like, damn, I killed a child. The precinct

54:02

is in commotion and everyone running around,

54:04

and then that's the end.

54:06

It's the last

54:09

moments of Stabler That's the last

54:11

we see of Stabler until he comes back in season

54:13

like twenty three as the whatever

54:16

Return of the Prodigal Sun or whatever, when he comes

54:18

back for his spinoff. But like, yeah,

54:21

the last thing we see is a Stabler nightmare,

54:23

him cradling a teenage girl dead

54:26

that reminds him of his daughters.

54:27

That's he killed.

54:29

Yeah, what a performance, What an episode.

54:32

It's a goetic. The cages,

54:35

the depths of destruction, and yeah,

54:38

I'm really interested in what you're gonna

54:40

be talking about.

54:41

Now.

54:42

Yes, there's a lot I did not

54:44

know, but here we go.

54:47

Let's get into it. So

54:56

yeah, I did. Right at the top, I was like, sadly, this

54:58

episode is trying to make a statement about gun control.

55:00

In twenty eleven and thirteen years later, guns

55:02

are still an illness that we have in the United States.

55:05

But one of the references that this episode

55:07

is making, I think, is to the Nicole Duframe

55:10

case.

55:11

This happened when I lived in New York City. The

55:13

name sounds familiar, but I have no idea

55:15

what this is.

55:16

I had just moved to New York six months

55:18

before this happened in January of two thousand and five.

55:21

Two couples were walking home from drinking

55:23

having a good night. A bunch of teen

55:25

muggers like approached them. They'd been mugging a bunch

55:28

of people in the area. There were guys and girls

55:30

in the group of muggers, and they

55:33

started messing with them. They pistol whipped

55:35

this girl, Nicole's fiance. Then

55:38

she got in their faces and she kept saying,

55:40

what are you gonna do?

55:41

Shoot us?

55:42

And she said it twice before Rudy Fleming,

55:44

who was like maybe the leader of the pack but

55:46

he had a gun, fired a shot

55:48

into her chest and she died within minutes in her

55:50

fiance's arms. And the story was

55:53

like everywhere because it was like so tragic,

55:55

so senseless. She was kind of trying

55:58

to stand up for her friends and for herself,

56:00

and it's like kind of what it's what happened

56:02

to Anette in the episode, essentially like just

56:05

give them your purse. Just let them take what they want,

56:07

you know, don't start like an altercation. Is

56:10

kind of the message that this case

56:12

and this episode is probably given. Although

56:14

in this episode that guy was gonna kill

56:17

her anyway, but yeah, yeah, she gave the pursa

56:20

Yeah, yeah, they were just trying

56:22

to steal shit from them in this one. But

56:24

yeah, this like this was in the paper

56:27

like every day that I would read about this, like

56:29

it was a really really big tragic

56:32

thing. She was also I think she'd been an actress.

56:34

She was like a beautiful white woman. So obviously that gets

56:37

very highly publicized. So that was all

56:39

over the news when I first moved to New York. But

56:42

then and I'm getting to a

56:44

final crime that this is based

56:46

on, but this is also references

56:48

the ATF gun walking scandal, which

56:51

the operation that they call short Views is

56:53

referencing the atfeal.

56:56

Yes, yes, so gun.

56:58

Walking is essentially letting

57:00

criminals come and buy weapons

57:02

and then walk with them, quote unquote

57:04

like walk away with the weapons, especially if

57:07

they're buying them in large quantities, so that they

57:09

can get traced back to the criminals who buy

57:11

them. So in two thousand and six, the

57:13

ATF launched a project called Project gun

57:15

Runner, and it was aimed at identifying

57:17

criminal activity in Mexico and reducing

57:19

border violence and drug and gun trafficking.

57:22

And then there was Operation Fast and Furious,

57:25

which was what the ATF called

57:27

a bunch of Arizona cases under Project

57:29

gun runner and that started in nine.

57:31

So basically they give people

57:34

guns just to track up.

57:36

Well no, like basically, the ATF would

57:38

encourage these gun dealers. Like the gun dealers

57:40

would call the ATF and go, hey, this like sketchy

57:42

guy is like trying to buy all these guns, Like

57:45

I don't think he like it seems

57:47

like a huge quantity for just a guy who's

57:49

hunting or whatever, and uh,

57:52

they would call the ATF and the ATF would go would

57:54

say go ahead, go go along with the sale.

57:57

And then they would ask them to sell to

57:59

these same customers over and over again and

58:01

then provide them with serial numbers and information

58:03

about the buyers. They would give that all to

58:05

the ATF. And at one point they were

58:08

even trying to GPS track They

58:10

were trying to put these GPS trackers on the actual

58:12

guns themselves, but like the batteries

58:14

all died out, like they didn't have the technology,

58:17

so.

58:17

Like it didn't work.

58:19

And then they thought that they

58:21

could lead this to bring them down,

58:23

to bring them back to like somehow

58:26

this would lead them to the big players

58:28

in these cartels and they could bring some of these Mexican

58:30

cartels down. The whole operation was

58:32

a hot mess, like it didn't take down any major

58:34

players. They lost track of two thousand

58:37

guns, including hundreds of AK

58:39

forty seven type like semi automatic

58:41

weapons, and no one told Mexico shit,

58:44

like Mexico had no idea this was going on. They weren't

58:46

like working with them, like it was bad.

58:48

So then in late twenty ten, a Border

58:51

Patrol agent named Brian Terry did

58:53

get killed in Arizona, just like they said in the episode,

58:55

except it wasn't Texas. It was Arizona in real life,

58:58

near the border allegedly by the

59:00

articles I read said illegal aliens, but I

59:03

mean undocumented people armed

59:05

with at least two AK forty seven variant

59:07

rifles trafficked by

59:10

the Fast and the Furious suspects who had

59:12

not been arrested by the ATF. So the

59:14

public was not told about the link between

59:16

Terry's murder and Fast and the Furious, and

59:19

nothing about the gun walking was public either,

59:22

And it wasn't until people came some whistleblowers

59:25

came forward. They took it to Congress,

59:27

and this all came to light and Charles

59:30

Grassley, who's like a Republican senator from Iowa.

59:32

In early twenty eleven started investigating

59:34

the ATFS controversial

59:37

gun walking practice. Eric Holder

59:39

was the Attorney General at that time under Obama

59:42

and the House. The

59:44

House actually held him in

59:46

contempt, which had never happened before,

59:49

like an attorney general had never been held in contempt

59:51

of Congress, which Eric Holder got. The

59:53

Republicans were investigating. They all thought

59:55

Obama knew what was happening, and he

59:57

was up for reelection in twenty twelve. And

1:00:00

then eventually Obama's

1:00:02

administration withdrew an executive

1:00:04

privileged claim and turned over documents relating

1:00:06

to the whole controversy. And then

1:00:08

when we're when Democrats

1:00:11

took over again were re elected in

1:00:13

twenty twelve, like it just they just

1:00:15

kind of didn't investigate it anymore and it was just kind

1:00:17

of considered a major flop, like the whole thing

1:00:19

Floppiana.

1:00:21

So that's the ATF gone walking

1:00:23

scandal.

1:00:24

But case I want to get into,

1:00:26

because this is a kind of a this is a crazy

1:00:28

This is like a famous case that I had never heard anything about,

1:00:30

but famous for a certain reason is

1:00:33

the case of Marvin Gabrion So

1:00:35

in Cedar Springs, Michigan on

1:00:38

August sixth of nineteen ninety seven, an

1:00:40

eighteen year old girl named Rachel Timmerman was

1:00:42

invited to play cards by a family friend

1:00:44

named Wayne Davis and a classmate named

1:00:47

Mikey Gabrion. Rachel, at

1:00:49

the time had a six week old daughter named Shannon,

1:00:51

So Mike and Wayne go to pick up

1:00:53

Rachel along with Mikey's uncle, Marvin

1:00:56

gabrieon the second Immediately why

1:00:58

is there a random uncle hanging out with a bunch of teens,

1:01:01

But en route to the game, Marvin

1:01:03

forces the other two guys out of the car, like

1:01:06

when they stop to get beer or something, and then he

1:01:08

drives off with Rachel, takes her to a secluded

1:01:10

area and does sexually assault her.

1:01:13

The next day, Yeah, fucked

1:01:15

up. Fucked up. The next

1:01:17

day, August.

1:01:18

Seventh, even though she was very scared,

1:01:20

She's like, this guy's gonna kill me, Like I shouldn't

1:01:23

do, I shouldn't say. She did report the rape

1:01:25

to the Nowago County

1:01:27

Sheriff's Department, and Marvin Gabrielle

1:01:30

was arrested and charged, and he was

1:01:33

forty four around the time that he was set to stand

1:01:35

trial, which was the following year. In June of nineteen

1:01:37

ninety seven now. In May of nineteen ninety

1:01:40

seven, the month before the trial, Rachel calls

1:01:42

the police twice to say that she's afraid for

1:01:44

her life, like she's very scared that he's going to

1:01:46

do something to her.

1:01:48

Now.

1:01:48

June third, nineteen ninety seven, two

1:01:50

days before the rape trial is set to start,

1:01:53

Rachel leaves the house with her eleven month old

1:01:55

daughter, Shannon. She tells her family that

1:01:57

she's going on a date with a guy she met at work.

1:02:00

John.

1:02:01

She brought Shannon because

1:02:03

the guy specifically asked her to red

1:02:06

flag and then her father gets

1:02:09

a letter like the next day, the family's like,

1:02:11

that's weird.

1:02:12

Where is she? Her father gets a letter saying,

1:02:15

I met the man in my dreams. I'm eloping and I'm leaving

1:02:17

town.

1:02:17

A few days later, they get another letter that's postmarked

1:02:20

from Little Rock, Arkansas, and she says, ME and Shannon

1:02:22

are starting a new life in Little Rock and these

1:02:24

letters are in her handwriting. The

1:02:26

prosecutor and the judge in the case

1:02:29

also get letters in Rachel's handwriting saying

1:02:31

that I made up the rape accusation.

1:02:33

I want to drop the charges.

1:02:34

And her family thought this was all like

1:02:36

legit and no one really looked into it,

1:02:39

like she was never really declared a

1:02:41

missing person. A month later,

1:02:43

July fifth, nineteen ninety seven, a pair

1:02:45

of turtle hunters I didn't know people

1:02:47

were hunting turtle discovered

1:02:50

Rachel's decomposing body floating

1:02:52

in Oxford Lake in the Huron Manistee

1:02:55

National Forest, which is a federal government

1:02:57

owned forest. She had duct tape,

1:03:00

so she never made it to Arkansas because

1:03:02

that's Michigan, right, So yeah, this

1:03:04

is all Michigan. She was never in Arkansas.

1:03:07

She had duct tape over her eyes and her mouth.

1:03:10

Her hands were handcuffed behind her back. Chains were

1:03:12

wrapped around her torso and tied to cinder blocks

1:03:14

used to weigh her down. And I

1:03:18

guess like the reason she rose to the top was like bacterial

1:03:20

gassing, like when the body like let's go of all

1:03:23

the gases, and like she rose up to the top even though

1:03:25

she was tied down.

1:03:26

The medical examiner, this is so dark.

1:03:28

The medical examiner.

1:03:29

Said that the cause of death was asphyxia by drowning

1:03:32

and that she was alive when she went into the lake.

1:03:34

So he just threw her into the lake

1:03:36

and then the baby Shannon was nowhere to

1:03:38

be found. Gabrieon is

1:03:41

obviously the prime suspect. Police

1:03:43

went and searched his home. They found keys that

1:03:45

matched the padlock used to secure her body

1:03:48

to the to the chains, as

1:03:51

well as concrete blocks that were stained with

1:03:53

the same paint as the ones that were tied to

1:03:55

her body and retrieved from the lake. The nephew,

1:03:57

Mikey Gabrieon's to say,

1:04:00

hey, like, what the the Oh my god, the

1:04:02

gil like, I know, like was

1:04:05

this note as a creepy uncle?

1:04:07

Like, well, I'll

1:04:09

get into a little bit more of the guy's backstory.

1:04:11

The nephew so fun and the lot like

1:04:14

this girl just gets oh my god, this I

1:04:16

know, it's horrific.

1:04:17

It's horrific, and like the baby

1:04:19

was she just had this like little baby and it's

1:04:22

so sad. The nephew took

1:04:24

them to this campsite that his uncle used a lot,

1:04:26

and when they were there they found his tent with bolt

1:04:28

cutters, chain duct tape, a woman's

1:04:31

hair clip, and silicon nipples for baby bottles,

1:04:33

so he had obviously.

1:04:35

Taken them there.

1:04:36

It also came to light that Gabrieone

1:04:38

had a friend, a handyman named

1:04:41

John Weeks, and weeks

1:04:44

girlfriend said she knew gabrieon

1:04:46

as Lance, like that was like an alias he went

1:04:48

under. She also said that she had

1:04:50

caught John on the phone talking to a girl

1:04:53

named Rachel, but he told her, oh,

1:04:55

I'm just setting her up on a date with Lance. So

1:04:57

Weeks is the guy that Rachel was going on on

1:05:00

the date with. Like Rachel, It's

1:05:02

unclear whether she knew they were friends, but

1:05:05

she obviously had no idea that Gabrion was setting

1:05:07

this all up like much in the same way as

1:05:10

you know Luke was setting up Eddie

1:05:12

to go fucking harass Annette.

1:05:14

He sends his friend to go take her out on a date

1:05:17

like lure her. Multiple people

1:05:20

later, like I think, multiple people testified

1:05:22

to seeing Weeks, Gabrion, and Rachel

1:05:25

around Oxford Lake the day after her disappearance.

1:05:28

John Weeks was never seen again, and

1:05:31

Gabriel is believed to have been the last to see

1:05:33

him alive in June of nineteen ninety seven, around

1:05:35

the same time that you know Rachel

1:05:38

went missing. Also, Wayne Davis,

1:05:41

the family friend who picked Rachel up the night

1:05:43

of the rape and was set to testify in the rape

1:05:45

trial, he had gone missing in February of nineteen

1:05:48

ninety seven, so five

1:05:50

years later, in July of two thousand

1:05:52

and two, canoeists found his body

1:05:54

in twin Wood Lake, in the same National Forest

1:05:57

where Rachel was found. So gabriel

1:06:00

had also lived in the house of a

1:06:02

guy named Robert Allen who had gone missing

1:06:05

in nineteen ninety five. But don't

1:06:07

worry, Gabrielle took care of cashing all his

1:06:09

Social Security checks and living in his house until

1:06:12

nineteen ninety seven, and then he got busted

1:06:14

on that. So now he is the prime suspect

1:06:16

in the disappearance of Weeks, Alan and Davis,

1:06:19

but he hasn't been charged in any of these murders

1:06:21

or because, I mean with Weeks and Alan

1:06:24

they never found a body, and then with Davis they

1:06:26

didn't find his body for five years.

1:06:27

It might be hard to tie him to it.

1:06:29

But after they found

1:06:32

Rachel's body, Gabrielle himself was missing

1:06:34

for two months like they couldn't find him, and then

1:06:36

finally authorities got a tip

1:06:38

that he was going to be cashing a Social Security

1:06:40

check in Sherman, New York, so

1:06:43

they busted him at the post office in Sherman,

1:06:45

New York, ROBERTA. Gilligan, who's

1:06:47

like a retired special agent for the FBI,

1:06:49

told Oxygen quote, he was very

1:06:51

uncooperative. At times, he would try to be charming,

1:06:54

but it was unnerving to be around him. He did

1:06:56

seem evil end quote. Shannon

1:06:59

has never been and it is widely

1:07:01

believed that Gabrion killed her. Of course, investigators

1:07:04

believe he used the threat of harming Shannon

1:07:06

to get Rachel to write the letters saying I'm fine,

1:07:08

I want to drop the charges whatever, And

1:07:11

allegedly Gabrione told fellow inmates

1:07:13

that he killed the baby because he didn't know what else to do with

1:07:15

her. So I don't know if

1:07:17

because of no body they didn't charge him with hers.

1:07:19

But in two thousand and two, Gabrion

1:07:22

did go to trial for Rachel's murder. At

1:07:24

trial, his defense attorneys, well

1:07:26

maybe not at this trial, actually at

1:07:29

one of his appeals. Eventually, his

1:07:31

defense attorneys try to bring up his tough upbringing,

1:07:33

like he grew up in crazy poverty,

1:07:36

like he was the youngest of all these kids, his whole

1:07:38

family would beat up on him, like he was apparently

1:07:41

being forced to box siblings when he was four

1:07:43

years old. There was tons of substance

1:07:45

abuse and violence in his home. He was neglected

1:07:47

by his parents. But as a child,

1:07:50

a lot of people testified that he was very

1:07:52

intelligent, and he was very kind. He helped

1:07:54

care for elderly relatives, and he also

1:07:57

cared for an intellectually disabled cousin that he

1:07:59

had. He had an IQ of one hundred and twenty

1:08:01

one, which one of the articles I read said

1:08:03

is the lower end of various very superior

1:08:06

intelligence. But after he

1:08:08

graduated high school, he suffered

1:08:10

quote an astonishing number end

1:08:13

quote of brain injuries in up to fourteen

1:08:16

car and motorcycle crashes. And

1:08:18

this is where people start to say his personality

1:08:21

change, like he became a different person. He

1:08:23

was drinking, Yeah,

1:08:26

he was drinking a ton. He was homeless,

1:08:28

He would start bar fights. He had nine arrests

1:08:31

for drunk driving, and after

1:08:33

his arrest for the murder, he

1:08:36

started like writing in code that no one

1:08:38

could understand. He wrote letters

1:08:40

to his lawyers begged him to stop, but he wrote

1:08:43

letters to the judge, to prosecutors,

1:08:45

to the victims family, to the Oklahoma

1:08:47

City bomber Timothy McVeigh, who by the way, was

1:08:50

dead, to the owner of the Dallas Mavericks

1:08:52

like he was just he heard voices.

1:08:55

He was trying to take his own life.

1:08:56

I mean, like, there's a pretty good case here for

1:08:58

someone that has like a traumatic brain injury at

1:09:00

the very least, if not other mental health issues.

1:09:03

And his defense team tried to highlight the head

1:09:06

injuries as a cause for the violence. And

1:09:08

he was prone to violence. He had a history of assault

1:09:10

and sexual assault. And the jury saw this violent

1:09:13

nature firsthand when he punched one of his own

1:09:15

defense attorneys, David Stebbins, in the

1:09:17

face in open court. So

1:09:20

he also tried to He attempted to

1:09:22

fire his counsel and represent himself,

1:09:24

and the judge denied it. The judge was like, he's

1:09:26

been so disruptive this entire case

1:09:29

that if he is allowed to represent himself, it will only

1:09:31

get worse. I mean, his behavior was wild.

1:09:33

He filed a ton of bonkers motions. He

1:09:36

was cursing, he was aggressive. He

1:09:38

was convicted, and he was sentenced

1:09:40

to death. However, this is

1:09:42

interesting, Michigan abolished the death

1:09:44

penalty in eighteen forty six. The

1:09:47

United States versus Gabriel is considered

1:09:49

a landmark case for its use of the death

1:09:51

penalty in a non death penalty state. The

1:09:54

reason was Rachel's body was

1:09:56

found on federal land. Remember I mentioned

1:09:58

before that this was a government owned forest,

1:10:01

a federal land, so it became

1:10:03

a federal crime, and he was tried in federal court,

1:10:06

and Gabriel was the first person

1:10:08

in the US to get the death penalty for a crime committed

1:10:10

in a non death penalty state since the

1:10:12

federal death penalty came back was

1:10:15

reinstated in nineteen eighty eight.

1:10:17

It's so funny I did like a.

1:10:18

Paper on the death penalty I

1:10:20

in like nineteen ninety, probably like when I was

1:10:22

like an elementary school kid. And it's probably

1:10:24

because this was like in the conversation, because

1:10:27

it was coming back. Like I don't think I even realized

1:10:29

that in nineteen eighty eight the death penalty came

1:10:31

back, or that it had even ever been gone.

1:10:33

So that's I guess why I'm writing papers

1:10:36

about it. Anyway. He

1:10:38

was also the first.

1:10:40

Person to be sentenced to death in the state of Michigan

1:10:42

since nineteen thirty seven. So his

1:10:45

defense tried to argue that it was

1:10:47

possible she was killed outside the park and

1:10:49

just disposed of there, but the jury was like, no, she

1:10:51

was killed inside the park. I mean probably because the emmy

1:10:54

said that she was alive when she went into the water. So

1:10:56

if she drowned in that lake, it's the

1:10:59

forensics would bear that out. So he

1:11:01

appealed in twenty eleven and

1:11:03

the conviction was upheld, but the sentence

1:11:05

was overturned. But then in twenty thirteen,

1:11:08

the Sixth Court Circuit of Appeals

1:11:11

overturned the earlier decision and the death penalty

1:11:13

was reinstated. So he sat

1:11:15

on death row at the United States Penitentiary

1:11:18

in Terre Haute, Indiana for a long time,

1:11:20

and then eventually he was moved

1:11:23

to the US Medical Center for Federal

1:11:25

Prisoners in Springfield, Missouri, and

1:11:27

that's where he still is. And he's seventy one

1:11:29

years old, and according

1:11:31

to the Death Penalty Information Center, Gabriel

1:11:34

is the only Michigan inmate awaiting

1:11:36

the death penalty, And.

1:11:38

So they might still kill him in

1:11:41

Springfield, Missouri.

1:11:43

Yes, because it's a US

1:11:46

Medical center for federal prisoners. I

1:11:48

wonder if it's somehow got commuted because

1:11:50

of mental health stuff. Like if

1:11:52

you I looked him up in the federal lockup

1:11:54

and it still says death, it still

1:11:57

says like death penalty like

1:11:59

under him. So it's like they

1:12:01

didn't commute it, but they might be trying to just kind

1:12:03

of kick it down the field until he dies of natural causes

1:12:05

because he's been there for dude

1:12:09

that like asked her out on a date. Weeks

1:12:12

disappeared. No one has ever found

1:12:15

They never found him. And I

1:12:17

killed him.

1:12:18

I mean I killed him. He killed

1:12:20

the baby, he killed her because

1:12:23

he rapes her. An't no fuck.

1:12:26

Yeah, Like Weeks

1:12:29

is probably the inspiration for the Eddie Skinner

1:12:31

character, but Gabrieon

1:12:35

is the psycho, whereas I think that Eddie Skinner

1:12:37

is also the psycho. And it's like they've sort of

1:12:39

merged that, you know, like Luke didn't want to hurt this woman.

1:12:41

I don't think he just wanted her to like not testify. Yeah,

1:12:45

but we'll hurt her more than he already heard her.

1:12:47

But yeah, it's wild. I

1:12:49

just like I didn't know any of this, like federal

1:12:52

death penalty on federal land and you

1:12:54

know, so, but

1:12:57

I wonder if it's like I

1:12:59

mean, yeah, I don't know if they're trying to like anything

1:13:02

I could find that was the most updated was really

1:13:05

from like twenty twenty two, and it was all about how he

1:13:07

was just kind of still awaiting Jath

1:13:09

penalty.

1:13:10

Crazy. Yeah, so

1:13:13

that is.

1:13:14

Bad on that, but one

1:13:16

fucking looneitune and your life is

1:13:19

over. It's so scary, I

1:13:21

know, but but I'm

1:13:23

also like, I don't know, it's

1:13:26

family dynamics are so unique

1:13:28

and stuff, but like, there's no way in hell I could

1:13:30

just mess it, like write a letter to my parents

1:13:33

being like, hey I eloped,

1:13:35

I'm good, peace out, Like that

1:13:38

just wouldn't really work in my household,

1:13:41

I know, but I know everyone's like different.

1:13:44

Yeah, she's like because we've seen

1:13:46

this on SVU where they're like she's in the

1:13:48

Peace Corps and I get a letter once in a while

1:13:50

and I'm like, what, yeah,

1:13:53

in what world is I know?

1:13:55

I know, I know.

1:13:58

She's in Arkansas.

1:13:59

What I think It's like

1:14:02

they, well, in one of the articles I read, it said,

1:14:04

well, we didn't like it, but she's an adult, Like what

1:14:06

could we do? And so because

1:14:09

at that point she's nineteen, and

1:14:12

I don't know, it's like the it's

1:14:14

like the one, it's like the what we just did in the tunnel

1:14:16

Blind episode where that girl was just like my mom, I'm

1:14:18

going to New York and like the mom was like, I don't like

1:14:20

this, but I don't know what I can do about it.

1:14:22

You're nineteen years old.

1:14:24

You know.

1:14:25

It's crazy. But we do

1:14:28

have a great guest to clutch. It has so

1:14:31

long, long time coming. Yeah,

1:14:33

don't go anywhere.

1:14:41

Our guest today is actually

1:14:44

a friend of ours that we've

1:14:47

been wanting to get on the show forever. She

1:14:49

is an actor who's been featured in shows

1:14:52

like Sons of Anarchy, Lie to Me,

1:14:54

United States of Tara. She's also in

1:14:56

horror movies like The Conjuring and Agnes.

1:14:59

But you know where today as the gun wielding

1:15:01

teen who didn't get to go to prom but did

1:15:03

get shot by Elliott Stabler Jenna

1:15:05

Fox. Guys enjoy our chat

1:15:07

with the lovely Haley McFarland.

1:15:10

Hi, Yeah, Hi, Hi, the

1:15:14

time has come. I can't believe

1:15:16

years in the make it.

1:15:18

I know we've been at

1:15:21

least I have been avoiding

1:15:23

pouncing on you at parties for years

1:15:26

to ask you a million questions about SVU,

1:15:29

And now we can finally do it in a professional

1:15:31

capacity, and I'm very excited, well

1:15:33

awesome.

1:15:35

Because not many people can say

1:15:37

that they were in, like Christopher

1:15:40

Maloney's final episode and

1:15:43

he shot you dead.

1:15:44

I mean it is like wild.

1:15:47

Yeah, it's something that I will brag

1:15:49

about two strangers. Like I'm not like

1:15:51

to think about the thing like the acting

1:15:54

stuff that I do that much, but that's

1:15:56

one.

1:15:56

That I will be like, well you

1:16:00

murder sister Peg.

1:16:02

I mean I would say you're like in the top in the layd

1:16:05

like SVU. Historical

1:16:07

characters like that are outside of cast.

1:16:09

I mean, like you, you altered

1:16:11

the course of the show because I mean,

1:16:14

even though it was about contrastable stuff

1:16:16

like Maloney, like Stabler's character

1:16:18

doesn't come back because.

1:16:20

I think he's so rocked and he had to kill a sixteen

1:16:22

year old girl, and but

1:16:24

I was, I didn't.

1:16:25

I wish you know, it was it was poetic

1:16:28

because you got to like cough blood

1:16:30

and you know Maloney's arms. Yeah,

1:16:33

but I'm on your side,

1:16:35

you know. I like that you were able to

1:16:37

shoot those guys that were in one cage

1:16:40

ready for you.

1:16:41

Yeah. How old were you? How old

1:16:43

were you here? I was I was

1:16:45

twenty at the time. I think I just hearded twenty

1:16:47

okay, And were you in New York? La

1:16:50

are you a theater kid. What's your journey?

1:16:53

Oh? I well I was a I

1:16:56

was like a musical theater kid in

1:16:59

Oklahoma growing up.

1:17:00

Wow.

1:17:01

Yeah that's what your Wikipedia Wikipedia.

1:17:04

So that like you got kind of dragged

1:17:06

over into regular acting, but you were a musical

1:17:08

theater kid.

1:17:10

Yeah, I mean it.

1:17:11

I I always wanted

1:17:13

to be and I wanted to do it

1:17:15

all. But yeah, it just happened

1:17:18

that a manager who knew

1:17:20

my acting teacher in Oklahoma, a

1:17:23

manager out in LA was like looking for kids,

1:17:25

and I was like on a tape

1:17:27

that was sent over to him,

1:17:30

and he liked me, and so I was yeah,

1:17:32

I started going for kid.

1:17:35

Like how old were you? I? Oh

1:17:38

yeah, I was twelve twelve?

1:17:40

Wow.

1:17:40

Yeah it was like uh when

1:17:42

I.

1:17:42

Started, it was like they would fax

1:17:45

you the audition sides, like it

1:17:47

was like just before Yeah so.

1:17:49

You heard that, Like you heard that, like and

1:17:52

you were like gotta get going star.

1:17:54

Oh yeah.

1:17:54

We would.

1:17:55

We would get the call and we'd have to like unplug that

1:17:57

we didn't have like a send, you know, we'd have to unplug

1:17:59

the phone line and then plug in the thing. It was a big

1:18:02

I'd be waiting next to the fax

1:18:04

machine. Like Christmas morning. She Wow,

1:18:07

did you watch SVU like when

1:18:09

you booked so, when you booked this.

1:18:13

Yeah, I had watched. I had watched every

1:18:15

season of it up until that point. I

1:18:18

was a big fan.

1:18:19

I was very excited and when I found out that

1:18:21

it was the final

1:18:24

episode, like I didn't like when

1:18:26

I booked it, I realized I realized it was the

1:18:29

final episode of the season and

1:18:31

so.

1:18:32

And I also had maybe seen

1:18:34

like were there. I think there were.

1:18:36

It's hard to remember so long ago,

1:18:38

but I think there were articles saying that this

1:18:41

was his final season.

1:18:43

I don't know, but what we I don't

1:18:45

remember at the time, but what we've heard

1:18:48

from other people in interviews have

1:18:50

told us that they

1:18:52

didn't know that it was going to be episode,

1:18:56

all the contracting stuff and then suddenly

1:18:58

like he just was there for the.

1:19:02

Yeah.

1:19:02

Yeah, I I well, knowing that it was the season

1:19:05

finale, I knew there had to be something

1:19:07

extra crazy that happened.

1:19:08

So I remember, like, but even the like

1:19:11

excited is.

1:19:12

Intense, Like I

1:19:14

feel like that would haunt me even

1:19:17

just I don't know, it's a it's a haunting shootdown

1:19:20

up top from top to it was.

1:19:22

Yeah, it was a very intense. Every

1:19:25

scene was very very intense. Was Eddie

1:19:28

normal in life, that little

1:19:31

Yeah, yeah he was.

1:19:33

He was.

1:19:33

He was very cool.

1:19:34

That guy works a ton. I looked up his IMDb.

1:19:37

He's a huge he works all the time.

1:19:40

Mm hmm.

1:19:41

Can I tell you a very funny story? I don't

1:19:43

know. Yeah, well you tell

1:19:45

us everything. We want to know everything. One

1:19:49

of the the other guest

1:19:51

actors was he was so.

1:19:55

Nice and like enthusiastic,

1:19:57

and he had helped another actor on

1:19:59

it with they with an audition.

1:20:02

He helped him tape an audition and I just remember he

1:20:04

was so like pumped

1:20:06

about how good this audition was. That he made

1:20:09

the guy like show me the audition and it

1:20:11

was an enthusiasm and like a sweetness

1:20:13

that I was like, is this I mean, twenty

1:20:16

year old me was like, is this like the

1:20:18

first like thing he has

1:20:20

ever done? Like he's he's just like

1:20:23

so happy to be there

1:20:25

and positive and kind. And

1:20:28

I look afterwards, I looked it up and obviously it

1:20:30

wasn't he'd been working a lot for a long time.

1:20:32

But that ended up being

1:20:34

Petro Pascal.

1:20:36

He was my god.

1:20:37

So he was so positive

1:20:40

and like, yeah, I

1:20:42

was just like he seems

1:20:45

like new he that's so funny.

1:20:47

He still had the he still had the energy of

1:20:50

U obviously obviously he

1:20:52

still does. It's like an enthusiasm. Yeah

1:20:55

yeah, Apa.

1:20:56

There's a current interview where they bring up Buffy

1:20:59

and he remembers every single detail

1:21:02

and that it helped get a sad car like he truly

1:21:04

like loves all these things.

1:21:07

And I can't believe you were like, yeah,

1:21:09

this guy's a freak and

1:21:13

now he's just jaded. Yeah,

1:21:16

you were a jaded young twenty year old in

1:21:18

the.

1:21:18

Biz because he talked he talks

1:21:21

about us for you too in interviews, Like he talked.

1:21:23

About it fondly, like I think he yeah.

1:21:25

Yeah, he was so.

1:21:26

I just remember he was so like happy

1:21:29

to be there and happy to like work how

1:21:31

hard? Yeah, tell us how the shooting choreo

1:21:34

went. You know, they had

1:21:36

like the.

1:21:36

Face like the blank like

1:21:38

quarter rounds or whatever. And I had never shot a gun

1:21:41

before, and so they had me like practice

1:21:43

it a few times, like on the day once

1:21:45

they had the firearms men

1:21:48

there, and like I didn't

1:21:51

anticipate being as afraid

1:21:54

of guns as I learned I am.

1:21:56

On that day, Like every time the

1:21:59

guy would come and you know, they had they like show

1:22:01

you like that there's that the front

1:22:03

of the gun is plug and there's nothing in the

1:22:06

in the chamber and whatever. And

1:22:09

every time the guy would come up to like show me that stuff

1:22:11

and like hand it to me and I would like put

1:22:13

it in my in my belt, I would like start

1:22:15

crying because I was just I

1:22:17

just really I really don't like him. Yeah,

1:22:20

I like they freak

1:22:22

me out. And uh he was

1:22:25

very kind and he like looked distressed

1:22:28

every time.

1:22:28

I'd be like okay, like yeah,

1:22:31

I would probably feel the same,

1:22:33

like I don't like them. I've never really I've never shot

1:22:36

anything but like a rifle at summer camp for you

1:22:38

know, like I've never and I would be scared

1:22:40

and then you're pointing it at real people and yeah

1:22:43

like yeah.

1:22:43

And you see like the squibs and stuff

1:22:45

go off.

1:22:46

Like it was scary.

1:22:47

Uh oh yeah, I had I like

1:22:50

didn't anticipate. I had like nightmares about

1:22:52

it for a little while.

1:22:54

Oh my god, how many times

1:22:56

did you do this the whole shootout?

1:23:00

Mmmm? I don't

1:23:03

no, I can't remember that.

1:23:04

It was like a full day of she like

1:23:07

that they scheduled it out for a

1:23:09

full day because it was there was so

1:23:11

many angles and stuff. It was my first time having

1:23:13

like my only time I think, having

1:23:15

like a squib too, where like

1:23:19

it you know, I get shot and it explodes,

1:23:21

and that was I was nervous about

1:23:23

that the first time. I screamed

1:23:25

when it happened, which like I don't think happens

1:23:28

when you actually get it.

1:23:29

Maybe it does. Yeah,

1:23:32

yeah, for sure they

1:23:35

didn't. They didn't put that one in the I

1:23:37

watched it back. They didn't put that take in

1:23:39

the in the episode. And you spit

1:23:42

out blood too, mm hmmm, what

1:23:44

was that tasty?

1:23:47

It's like usually like a corn syrup kind

1:23:49

of kind of thing. It's never it's like it's

1:23:52

viscous in a way that is not

1:23:55

pleasant.

1:23:56

Actually, that's funny that you mentioned corn

1:23:58

syrup. I made my own blood when I went to Joe's

1:24:01

Halloween party right before pandemic

1:24:03

when.

1:24:03

I was a move at homes. So

1:24:06

I had a little viol of blood and I made

1:24:08

it very enough. So, yeah, you guys are

1:24:10

a Halloween couple. Yes,

1:24:13

I like uh, I

1:24:15

like haunted houses.

1:24:16

I like going to you know, the like Halloween

1:24:19

horror nights and yeah, not scary

1:24:22

farm.

1:24:22

I went to this year very

1:24:24

fun.

1:24:25

I want to there next year. I heard that's really good. I've done

1:24:27

Halloween horror nites twice, but never not scary,

1:24:29

and I'm excited.

1:24:30

Yeah, it's it was great. And

1:24:34

Joe likes hosting parties and dressing

1:24:36

up. Yes, I like

1:24:38

decorating, so I can decorate, he can, and

1:24:41

then once the party starts, I just kind of

1:24:43

become a partygoer

1:24:46

and he takes over hosting duty, which

1:24:48

is great.

1:24:49

You're like, I don't know where ice is, I don't know how

1:24:51

to find more drinks. I'm sorry. Wow,

1:24:54

I would like to dive into the catalog.

1:24:57

So I made a list.

1:24:58

I went to the IMDb I made and

1:25:00

I'll just say, a show, you're in a lot

1:25:02

of like beloved shows, and then you'll tell.

1:25:04

Us something about it. Okay, all

1:25:06

right, I'm gonna Gilmore

1:25:09

Girls.

1:25:09

Gilmore Girls. That was the first

1:25:12

TV or film thing I had ever done

1:25:15

out in LA. It was the first part like part that

1:25:17

I've done a couple of commercials up until then,

1:25:19

but it was my favorite

1:25:21

show and

1:25:24

it was just like a complete, like

1:25:26

surreal dream to be on

1:25:29

it. Like I still I'm one of those people who

1:25:31

will like watch it in the fall.

1:25:33

I like, I really enjoy it, but I

1:25:36

have to there's something like the two episodes

1:25:38

that I'm in, I just skip those two

1:25:40

because it like messes with my like dream

1:25:43

world.

1:25:44

So I just like, I just you know, I just watch

1:25:47

it. That's so fun, and I skip

1:25:49

those two episodes. Okay, So

1:25:51

yeah, You're like, that takes me out of it.

1:25:53

It's like when I see an Ectron SVU that's

1:25:55

already played a killer and now they're playing like a lawyer.

1:25:58

I'm like, this is taking me out of it. So that oh,

1:26:00

you see yourself would take you out. I know, that's

1:26:03

what I'm hoping for. I hope they I hope they bring

1:26:05

me back. Someday. They will bring you back.

1:26:07

Someday they've got I mean, I don't

1:26:09

know, though, You're so this part is so iconic,

1:26:11

but I think they will. It's like it's been literally

1:26:14

double as many episodes. It's like Anothery're

1:26:16

on season twenty six.

1:26:17

So Kelly

1:26:19

Bishop from we both it's our

1:26:21

blind Spot and neither of us have watched Gilbourg girl.

1:26:23

Yeah, so people will be like, you didn't talk

1:26:26

about it enough and.

1:26:27

So oh yeah,

1:26:29

because Kelly Bishop's in an episode where she gets killed

1:26:32

and we we're just like, oh, she's great, Yeah

1:26:34

she does Broadway blah, oh we don't mention Gilmore Girls.

1:26:36

And they went off. They were so mad. So

1:26:38

here we are refilling their Gilmore Girls tank

1:26:41

with you. That's so

1:26:43

exciting. And wait, can I say one

1:26:46

Sons of Anarchy? I'm a huge I

1:26:49

was a huge fan of Sons of Anarchy. I completely

1:26:52

never put it together that you were Brooke, Like

1:26:54

I just I watched that whole I watched

1:26:56

it before I knew Joe or you or

1:26:59

anybody, and so like I didn't, and

1:27:01

now I'm like, oh, yes, you

1:27:04

were like rat Boy's girlfriend, right, mm

1:27:07

hmm, yeah, how was

1:27:09

that?

1:27:10

It was?

1:27:11

It was very very cool.

1:27:12

I've I've never That's like maybe

1:27:15

the thing that I get recognized for

1:27:17

the most. Really it's

1:27:19

it's it has a lot

1:27:22

of people love that show and

1:27:24

they're scared, like no,

1:27:27

no, they're usually very cool people to

1:27:30

watch. It's yeah, I I

1:27:33

I've only watched the first couple

1:27:35

of seasons because it is it gets very violent

1:27:37

and that like.

1:27:38

So violent, Like there are scenes from

1:27:40

that show that I still think about how violent.

1:27:43

They are are, like haunting.

1:27:45

Yeah, yeah, I was able to watch the

1:27:47

last season because I had read a lot of the scripts

1:27:50

and so I knew what was going to happen, because

1:27:52

usually it's like the tension of like somebody

1:27:54

being and you know, like and that

1:27:56

that's the thing that I that I can't handle, and so

1:27:58

I was able to watch it. It's it's crazy

1:28:01

what people can get it on cable,

1:28:03

can show on TV.

1:28:04

Yeah, yeah, like I was always I mean I watched

1:28:06

it all pretty much after the fact.

1:28:08

I like that it was on or I caught up

1:28:11

and then I caught up with like the last season or something. But

1:28:13

I was like, you know, this is on my computer, but

1:28:15

this feels like too much for cable. But

1:28:19

wait, so what's

1:28:21

the story with this show? Lie

1:28:23

to me because that was like a huge series regular.

1:28:26

Oh my god, the photo of you

1:28:28

with Tim Row, Like, I have such a crush on him.

1:28:30

I am obsessed with him, and yeah,

1:28:32

I would like to know a lot of information.

1:28:35

Oh he's terrific.

1:28:37

It was, Yeah, it's the it was like the first kind

1:28:39

of series the only series regular

1:28:41

thing I have I have ever done. I played

1:28:43

his daughter on it, and he

1:28:46

is like a human light detector in

1:28:48

the show. I'm his one

1:28:51

blind spot. He can't help

1:28:53

it lying or

1:28:55

like he can, but like if he can, he like

1:28:57

doesn't know how to, you know, I make

1:29:00

and promise that he'll never use his techniques

1:29:02

on me or what it

1:29:05

was.

1:29:06

It was very very I had so

1:29:08

much fun with him.

1:29:09

I Yeah, he and I got along really

1:29:12

well, and like he you know, he basically

1:29:14

treated me like his daughter.

1:29:17

We had We had so much fun.

1:29:19

He was actually in he just happened to be

1:29:21

in New York, uh, working

1:29:24

on something else when I was doing my

1:29:26

episode of SVU, And so we like

1:29:28

met up and hung out when we were there

1:29:31

because it was like around the time I

1:29:33

think it light to me had like ended

1:29:37

was around then until we were still like talking

1:29:39

a whole bunch.

1:29:40

And yeah, we like

1:29:43

a little in New

1:29:45

York.

1:29:46

Yeah, we like freaked people out a couple of times, like

1:29:48

going to restaurants or whatever, and they'd be like.

1:29:50

What are what what are you doing here? Are

1:29:52

you together? Like they thought we were

1:29:54

actually uh father and daughter

1:29:57

and you were like a teen when you did that one.

1:30:00

Yeah, I had like maybe

1:30:02

I just turned eight.

1:30:04

I was like just about to turn eighteen when I started

1:30:07

doing that. It was like seventeen

1:30:09

to nineteen or twenty.

1:30:11

I kind of want to do a fuck Mary kill

1:30:14

with the guys in the cage.

1:30:15

Oh my god, Pedro,

1:30:21

Pascal, the guy Eddy,

1:30:24

Eddie, and then the rapist

1:30:27

hair drop.

1:30:27

Yeah, he gotta kill Luke. Yeah,

1:30:31

you gotta guy now

1:30:34

in a rapist Yeah, number

1:30:38

one. What

1:30:41

do you think Mary Page Pascal?

1:30:43

Yeah? Yeah, And then I guess you just have to have a romp

1:30:45

with Eddie. But it's not Yeah,

1:30:48

but Eddie's cute. He's got a sense of humor.

1:30:50

He's just on the wrong side of the tracks exactly.

1:30:55

He's like the sad track list

1:30:57

almost dude we've ever seen honest.

1:31:00

Yeah, it's like an Ali Kat in a

1:31:02

Disney movie or something. That guy totally

1:31:08

well yeah, Pedro selling the

1:31:10

guns to the I mean, what a dynamic episode

1:31:12

to be a part of. Mm hmmm.

1:31:15

And you know this is going to I

1:31:17

feel incredibly dumb

1:31:20

admitting this, uh, but I

1:31:23

watched it back last night and

1:31:25

I never thought about how the episode

1:31:28

is called Smoked and they're doing

1:31:30

like cigarette uh illegal

1:31:32

cigarettes uh involved

1:31:34

in you know, like they say like I smoked the bitch.

1:31:37

That's like the line. But also they are

1:31:40

it's a cigarette sting.

1:31:41

I didn't think about it till that they I

1:31:44

didn't think about that either, but that is

1:31:46

like, so I feel like they're always

1:31:48

trying to like add little layers and.

1:31:50

Stuff and like, well, because this was

1:31:52

also the showrunner, Neil Bear's final episode,

1:31:55

you know, he left, and so yeah, that's

1:31:58

like a nice that's fair him

1:32:00

on the way out, I would say, yeah, now.

1:32:03

Now here's something that I believe,

1:32:06

Like I believe I was told

1:32:08

on set, or maybe I just

1:32:10

read it after the fact, but it was Neilbhaar's

1:32:13

last episode, and I think

1:32:15

somebody told me that he had created

1:32:17

the character of Sister Peg, he had written her first

1:32:20

episode.

1:32:21

We might have to go back and check this. That's probably true.

1:32:24

We could double check.

1:32:25

But yeah, they brought her back after

1:32:27

like she hadn't been on for a few years, and they brought

1:32:29

her back just so he

1:32:32

could take her with him because he

1:32:34

was leaving, and he was like, she's mine.

1:32:37

If I can't have her, no one can. A

1:32:40

little freak. But

1:32:43

you might have to look that up and verify it first.

1:32:46

Well, you're IMDb most

1:32:49

current thing scare tactics. What is

1:32:51

that? Oh?

1:32:51

Yeah, and I saw it on your Insta too. What's

1:32:54

up? Yeah, a close

1:32:57

friend of mine.

1:32:58

Uh.

1:32:58

They rebooted Scare Tactics

1:33:01

and.

1:33:03

With Monkey Paw uh Jordan

1:33:05

Peele's production company, and so they were.

1:33:09

You know making it. It's like as.

1:33:12

I don't know if you had ever watched uh the

1:33:15

old version of it, but

1:33:18

it's it's like as silly.

1:33:19

But they uh like the

1:33:21

MTV show.

1:33:23

Yeah, it was on I think Sci Fi, but

1:33:26

they would like yes

1:33:29

where they Yeah, they make you it's it's a prank

1:33:31

show where they make

1:33:34

you think you're like living

1:33:36

out like an actual horror movie. Wow.

1:33:39

Wait, that's crazy because like it was

1:33:42

on the the early aughts and it

1:33:44

was on Sci Fi and and it

1:33:46

was first hosted the first two seasons by Shannon

1:33:48

Doherty r I P. Then a season,

1:33:50

then Stephen Baldwin, then Tracy

1:33:53

Morgan. What a wild What

1:33:55

a Wild Ride? And that was you know

1:33:58

it's another guy. Yes, wait,

1:34:01

so did they scare you? Were you scared?

1:34:03

Thankfully?

1:34:04

No?

1:34:05

I got really.

1:34:05

Uh so, my my

1:34:08

one of my very best friends, Mollie her

1:34:11

husband Alan uh was the showrunner

1:34:14

for like this new rebook and

1:34:19

they were coming up.

1:34:20

This was like one of the last uh.

1:34:22

She is in a few of

1:34:24

them. But this for one of like

1:34:26

the last pranks they were

1:34:28

doing. They shot it in in Atlanta.

1:34:32

Uh, they were pranking

1:34:34

some they were doing a tie in

1:34:36

with WWE wrestlers and

1:34:40

so.

1:34:41

This some of the big

1:34:43

ones.

1:34:44

This, this guy called Cody Rhodes

1:34:47

was pranking this group of wrestlers called

1:34:50

the New Day And they they

1:34:53

go in thinking that they're going to

1:34:55

be like judges in a at

1:34:58

the beginning of like an amaz race

1:35:01

style show, and

1:35:03

so they are just there to like give advice

1:35:06

to the contestants, and

1:35:09

one by one they were sending us down and they

1:35:11

had you know, some actors go in

1:35:13

and be like normal contestants

1:35:16

for the show, and then I come

1:35:18

out and I'm like freak

1:35:21

and then like weird supernatural stuff

1:35:23

starts happening and eventually scarcely.

1:35:26

It was very It was very elaborate and there

1:35:29

were like explosions and stuff. It was very

1:35:31

crazy. Wow, what's

1:35:35

going on? Okay? Wait, well before we I

1:35:37

want to ask you what else you have going on?

1:35:39

But I just want to know if you have any other like

1:35:41

before we likes,

1:35:44

I'd like to hear one.

1:35:47

Yes, that was that? I thought

1:35:49

that was really the only.

1:35:51

The only real interaction I have with him

1:35:54

is like after he's shot me, when

1:35:56

I when I have my admission

1:35:59

that I bought it off.

1:35:59

The st.

1:36:01

Yeah, I love that you. You taught

1:36:03

us all a lesson on your way out. That was

1:36:05

nice.

1:36:06

Yeah, Like I thought that was so crazy

1:36:08

that it was like this episode of twenty twelve

1:36:11

or eleven and they're and like they're trying

1:36:13