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Pussy, good! At GNC, nutrition,

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nutrition. Erich, I'm the founder of One

0:31

Thousand Hours Outside. And I have just

0:34

read an incredible book that I knew

0:36

nothing about, never heard of it. It's

0:38

called High Functioning, Overcome Your Hidden Depression,

0:40

and Reclaim Your Joy. And the author,

0:43

Dr. Judith, Joseph, is here. Welcome, Dr.

0:45

Judith. Thank you for having me. And

0:47

you have your own podcast called The

0:49

Vault with Dr. Judith, and this episode

0:51

is coming out the day before this

0:54

fantastic book launches. So if people want

0:56

to grab the book right now, grab

0:58

it now, because you get an exclusive

1:00

interview with you and Mel Robbins. That's

1:02

part of a pre-order bonus, so I'll

1:04

make sure I'll put the link in the

1:07

show notes. I've never heard functioning, depression. Although

1:09

I have heard of so many people who

1:11

burn out, they burn out, like I've talked

1:13

to a lot of people, they work with

1:16

high functioning CEOs in this type of thing,

1:18

and there's a high percentage of people that

1:20

just don't sort of complete their mission

1:22

or the thing that they're passionate about because

1:25

they burn out. So could you, I mean,

1:27

you kind of coined this, it almost seems

1:29

like, or you're the one that's researching it

1:31

at least, no one else has researched

1:33

it. Where did the sort of interest

1:36

come from? to go after something that

1:38

no one's really talking about? Well,

1:40

you know, high function depression

1:42

is not a term that is

1:44

already recognized by the medical community.

1:46

And, you know, when people

1:49

started using the term, everyone was

1:51

saying, that's not real, you know, there's

1:53

only one type of depression, the type

1:55

when you break down and then we

1:57

do something about it. it. And I

2:00

was experiencing a lot of the symptoms

2:02

of depression, but I wasn't breaking down.

2:04

Like many moms, I couldn't afford to

2:06

break down, I have a small child,

2:08

I had a career, people depend on

2:11

me, I have elderly parents. So I

2:13

was exhibiting these symptoms of depression, but

2:15

not meeting that final checkbox where you're

2:17

supposed to break down. And I was

2:19

sitting at my desk in 2020 giving

2:21

this lecture to a large hospital system

2:24

trying to help them to deal with

2:26

their stress. Halfway through the talk, I

2:28

realize, I think I think I'm depressed,

2:30

right? And it surprised me. I was

2:32

experiencing something called anhedonia, which is like

2:34

a lack of feeling and pleasure and

2:37

things. I felt kind of meh, blah.

2:39

And you know, it wasn't burnout because

2:41

with burnout, it's related to your job,

2:43

right? Burnet is a relatively new diagnosis

2:45

that was only recently recognized by the

2:48

medical community. Burnout is specific to your

2:50

occupation. What I was experiencing was that

2:52

even when I wasn't at work, I

2:54

was over functioning, I was doing all

2:56

these things, trying to keep busy. And

2:58

in my research, because I published the

3:01

only peer-reviewed study in high-function depression ever

3:03

to be published in the world, I

3:05

found that trauma is highly correlated with

3:07

it. So what happens is instead of

3:09

dealing and processing with painful experiences and

3:12

trauma, people run by busying themselves. So

3:14

when I started putting out content around

3:16

it, it just went viral. I teach

3:18

doctors at NYU how to do social

3:20

media. And I thought, let me just

3:22

test out what I'm seeing in my

3:25

research and in my lab and my

3:27

practice. And literally people were like, that's

3:29

me. You know, how did you know?

3:31

They're like, how did you know that

3:33

when I'm not busy, I feel restless?

3:36

When I'm not moving around and doing

3:38

for others, I feel empty. How did

3:40

you know that? You know that I

3:42

can't? sleep through a night that I'm

3:44

constantly thinking that I wake up before

3:46

my alarm, you know, that I just

3:49

shove the food in my mouth and

3:51

move on, that there's no simple joy

3:53

in life. How do you know what

3:55

this is? So when I started putting

3:57

people were like, like, I finally have

4:00

a name, a term, a name for

4:02

what I'm experiencing. Because if you go

4:04

to your doctor and you have symptoms

4:06

that I'm discussing right now, but you

4:08

don't check that final box of breaking

4:10

down, they're going to say, come back

4:13

when you break down. And I thought

4:15

that was a broken model. Why are

4:17

we waiting for people to break down?

4:19

We should be giving them the tools

4:21

so they don't have a breakdown. You've

4:24

never heard of this. Slow down. That's

4:26

the whole premise here. We're trying to

4:28

set aside some time just for getting

4:30

outside for slowing down. And if you

4:32

were someone that was dealing with this

4:34

high functioning depression, not only would it

4:37

be really hard for you to make

4:39

that commitment, because your go, go, go,

4:41

do, do, do, do. But additionally, it

4:43

would be hard for you to enjoy

4:45

that time. So I would love to

4:47

talk about this anhedonia, which is a

4:50

weird word, which is a weird word,

4:52

which is a weird word. I never

4:54

heard of it, never heard of high

4:56

functioning depression, but you talked about how

4:58

it was coined in the 1800s. It's

5:01

a reduced ability to experience joy in

5:03

life, which makes you feel, you said

5:05

earlier, mad or blam, all the time.

5:07

So you wrote this, not all who

5:09

are depressed feels sad. Some feel nothing

5:11

or empty. Some even feel constantly restless.

5:14

Your goal is just to get through

5:16

the day. Would you say there's... a

5:18

high percentage of people feeling this way?

5:20

Is it a lot of moms? I

5:22

mean, I could imagine, I mean, it's

5:25

just, yeah, you're trying to survive. Yeah,

5:27

you know, like, people say, well, that's

5:29

just life. No, women are twice as

5:31

likely to have depression and anxiety than

5:33

men. Twice as likely. Like, that is

5:35

a shocking statistic, but it's not surprising,

5:38

right? You know, we deal with a

5:40

lot. Biologically, we are more vulnerable because

5:42

of our hormones, you know, even from

5:44

puberty, our hormones are contributing to like

5:46

ups and downs that may contribute to

5:49

a depression, you know, and then in

5:51

terms of, and that's our just our

5:53

biology alone. Psychologically, Women are more at

5:55

risk for things like trauma, right? We're

5:57

more likely to be in abusive relationships

5:59

and then socially the world is really

6:02

not set up for us You know

6:04

the world tells us we have to

6:06

be a mom. We have to have

6:08

a career We have to take care

6:10

of others. We have to be polite.

6:13

We have to be gracious. We can't

6:15

complain. We have to be attractive We

6:17

can't look tired. It's just there's a

6:19

lot of social burdens for us and

6:21

then we don't get paid equally, right?

6:23

We have to work twice as hard

6:26

and get paid, you know, significantly less.

6:28

So there's a lot of bio-psychosocial factors

6:30

as to why women experience this. And

6:32

I think it's important because when I

6:34

break this down in front of, you

6:37

know, I speak a lot of mom

6:39

groups and women's talks, they feel so

6:41

validated. They're like, yes, I finally understand.

6:43

I want joy. But I can't access

6:45

it because biosekosocially, you know, and that's

6:47

the model that I use to tell

6:50

people to understand the science of your

6:52

happiness, it's really difficult to derive joy.

6:54

And so I explain that if you

6:56

don't know the science of your unhappiness,

6:58

if you don't know the things that

7:00

are taking away from your joy, then

7:03

how can you know what can make

7:05

you happy? So it's important to break

7:07

it down that way so that people

7:09

understand the different areas of their lives.

7:11

Wow, yes, this book is going to

7:14

be so impactful because you read it

7:16

and you're like, oh, this explains a

7:18

lot of how I feel and you

7:20

also just give a goal. Your goal

7:22

is to increase your overall joy and

7:24

you have to start to prioritize those

7:27

things. You talk about how social media

7:29

affects us too. So you said bio,

7:31

bio, bio psychosocial, talking about just the

7:33

sort of social pressures, but then even

7:35

social media itself is affecting how we

7:38

perceive ourselves in the world, what... Peace

7:40

does the social media play? Yeah, social

7:42

media is something that's in the social

7:44

bucket, right? The social bucket of the

7:46

biosecosocial is anything in your environment, from

7:48

what you eat, drink, to who you're

7:51

partnered with. But we have a really

7:53

unhealthy relationship with social... media. For me

7:55

I have to take breaks because sometimes

7:57

I'm looking at it and you know

7:59

I'm a pretty accomplished person but then

8:02

I see someone else having accomplishments and

8:04

I'm like oh my gosh what am

8:06

I doing with my life? And I

8:08

think a lot of moms feel that

8:10

way. I know that when I first

8:12

gave birth and I was working so

8:15

hard and I was seeing other moms.

8:17

posting like these gorgeous pictures of their

8:19

you know like mom's Chronicle lies like

8:21

one month to month and I was

8:23

like I could barely just like get

8:26

the crust out of my eye how

8:28

are these women doing this you know

8:30

and so it would make me feel

8:32

so bad about myself and the research

8:34

shows that like exposure to social excessive

8:36

exposure can make you feel so bad

8:39

about the way that you look you

8:41

know what you're doing in life because

8:43

we weren't built to constantly see what

8:45

other people were doing you know our

8:47

brains when we were put on this

8:49

earth, we weren't supposed to be exposed

8:52

to how great lives looked, right? And

8:54

that's why I think a lot of

8:56

us have a hard time finding happiness.

8:58

I constantly have patients coming into my

9:00

private practice saying, Dr. Judith, I just

9:03

want to be happy. And then I

9:05

say to them, well, what is happiness

9:07

to you? And they'll be like, oh,

9:09

it's when I finally get that job

9:11

or I get that partner, I had

9:13

the perfect little family. And I tell

9:16

them this, I said, even if you

9:18

get those things, you're still not going

9:20

to be happy. The research shows that

9:22

when you delay happiness, for I will

9:24

be happy when, you're still not happy,

9:27

even if you get that one, right?

9:29

And so in my private, in my

9:31

research practice, I reframe and I say,

9:33

instead of thinking about happiness as an

9:35

ideal, think of joy, it's more attainable.

9:37

So in the research, when we add

9:40

up how we know whether or not

9:42

someone is happy because you'll rarely see

9:44

the word happy on a word happy

9:46

on a scale, We look for things

9:48

like when you ate, did you feel

9:51

satisfied? When you talked to a loved

9:53

one or snuggled with a loved one,

9:55

did you feel connected? You know, when

9:57

you took in the app, did you

9:59

feel rested? Those are all the little

10:01

points of joy that make up happiness.

10:04

So what I tell to my patience

10:06

is, try to see if you can

10:08

get a point of joy every day.

10:10

And maybe today you get two, maybe

10:12

tomorrow you get three. But that's way

10:15

more within reach than I will be

10:17

happy. I just want to be happy.

10:19

This ideal, right? Happy is this idea

10:21

and ideal. Joy is the experience. So

10:23

try to grab as many points as

10:25

you can in a day. I loved

10:28

this sentence. The goal is to increase

10:30

your overall joy by creating new experiences

10:32

you cherish. and by finding more joy

10:34

in the places where it is lacking

10:36

right now. So creating new experiences you

10:39

cherish is sort of opposite of what

10:41

people are doing with the high functioning

10:43

depression. They're creating more experiences of work

10:45

and accomplishment and filling in the needs

10:47

of others, but creating experiences you cherish.

10:49

And with the social media you wrote,

10:52

humans are designed to live in the

10:54

world, not in front of a screen.

10:56

I think about that too. So I

10:58

just posted a podcast this man was

11:00

named Levi Levi Lusco. L-U-S-K-O. So then

11:02

I spelled it wrong just yesterday. I

11:05

spelled it L-U-K-S-O. And then you get

11:07

on social media and you're like, here's

11:09

a woman who can paint with both

11:11

hands and both feet at the same

11:13

time and create four different images. You

11:16

know, she's got like her feet under

11:18

the table and they're dipping into paint

11:20

and outcomes for, you know, different portraits

11:22

of horses. I don't know. So you

11:24

do, you feel just like what am

11:26

I doing here. Just because this is

11:29

the one thousand hours outside podcast, I

11:31

wanted to mention that you do talk

11:33

about like when did you stop prioritizing

11:35

play, you talk about sun exposure, you

11:37

talk about the power of going for

11:40

a five-minute walk, can you just throw

11:42

in a little bit about how for

11:44

some people nature or doing those types

11:46

of things might help them? Yeah, you

11:48

know, like what you're talking about with

11:50

technology, we are only, we're so limited

11:53

with our sensory stimulation when we're on

11:55

screens. And again we were really built...

11:57

to feel, you know, to smell, to

11:59

hear, to... taste, all of these sensations,

12:01

you know, and that's why it's exciting

12:04

for me to talk about this because

12:06

when you know that you could be

12:08

using all of your senses to access

12:10

joy, then you're getting joy delivered

12:12

to your brain in all these

12:15

different avenues versus just one, you

12:17

know, one dimension or two, that

12:19

just image the two-dimensional screen. So

12:22

when you're out in nature, there's

12:24

a reason that you feel better. right?

12:26

There's a reason because you're getting

12:28

all the sensory stimulation and you're

12:31

also experiencing a sense of awe

12:33

like wow This world is so

12:35

beautiful and I'm the only me

12:37

who will ever exist in the

12:39

future of the universe and in

12:41

the history of the universe. It

12:44

just puts things in perspective, right?

12:46

That how specially you are, you

12:48

don't really think about whether or

12:50

not you're as talented as the

12:52

other person because you realize that

12:54

you're part of this incredible universe

12:56

and the chances of you. even

12:59

existing are so small, so you

13:01

are here for a reason. It

13:03

just really sets your perspective. But

13:05

we don't access that. And again,

13:07

that's something that we can try to

13:09

access more of. Even if you're in like

13:11

a big city and you don't have a

13:14

lot of nature around you, there are parks,

13:16

you know, like you can get a plant.

13:18

There are things that you can do to

13:20

still feel connected to nature. And it's also...

13:22

So easy to access, it's free, it's

13:24

something within reach, but we just kind

13:26

of overlook it. We'd rather look at

13:29

a beach on Instagram than actually walk

13:31

by the beach near our homes, right,

13:33

or the lakes by our homes. So the

13:35

goal is to increase your overall joy.

13:37

And you talk about living life with

13:39

your eyes closed. We talk about people

13:41

who are feeling like they have no

13:44

enjoyment. The word is... And how do

13:46

you say it? And? And he don't

13:48

know. Yeah. Hadonia. I remember when I

13:50

first said the word, people were like,

13:52

what is that? Anna, what? It sounds

13:54

like a very exotic name of a

13:56

woman in some part of Europe, you

13:58

know? Yes. Anne hadone. So if you

14:00

are experiencing a reduced ability to experience

14:03

joy, you feel mad or blah all

14:05

the time, your goal is just to

14:07

get through the day, this is a

14:09

wonderful book for you to read, it's

14:11

called High Functioning. Another word that you

14:13

talk about, which I guess I didn't

14:16

really know what it meant, is masochism.

14:18

I thought about it in terms of

14:20

weird things. I honestly don't even really

14:22

know what I thought it meant. It

14:24

was just sort of one of those

14:27

words in my mind that was like,

14:29

I don't know. self-sacrificing and self-sabotaging behavior.

14:31

It used to be part of this

14:33

personality disorder, but was removed because it

14:35

was politically controversial. Can you talk about

14:38

the people-pleasing self-sacrificing? It seems like a

14:40

wonderful thing, but maybe it can be

14:42

taken too far? Yeah, you know, when

14:44

I was in training, masochism was the

14:46

dirty word you're not allowed to say

14:49

about patients, right? behind closed doors, we

14:51

would write down patient exhibits masochistic traits.

14:53

So I thought, why are we like

14:55

keeping this to ourselves? Let's democratize this

14:57

information. If people know that they're being

15:00

masochistic, then they can do something about

15:02

it, right? So it was taken out

15:04

of the Bible psychiatry, the DSM, in

15:06

the 80s, because unfortunately, masochism was used

15:08

to victim blame, right? So if a

15:11

woman was partnered with an abusive person,

15:13

One of the things in masochism is

15:15

you incite violence or incite people to

15:17

treat you poorly. So it's very victim-laming.

15:19

So that's why it was politically controversial.

15:21

They didn't want people to be labeled

15:24

as being the cause of their problem.

15:26

But there are other parts of masochistic

15:28

personality disorder that I think are beneficial

15:30

to be aware of, like the tendency

15:32

to people please, the tendency to bend

15:35

over backwards, the tendency to self-sabotage your

15:37

happiness for the sake of others, tendency

15:39

to feel unworthy of praise. All of

15:41

those things. are the traits that they're

15:43

still talk about, right? And they still

15:46

write in their notes. And so people

15:48

with high function depression who are, you

15:50

know, they believe that they are humans

15:52

doing instead of a human being. doing

15:54

for others nonstop, even if it may

15:57

actually be robbing them of their own

15:59

joy and their self-sacrificing and self-sabotaging. And

16:01

so a lot of times this is

16:03

related to this core trauma where they

16:05

don't feel good enough. So they believe

16:08

that their role is who they are.

16:10

Without that role of being the go-to

16:12

friend, you know, the reliable, you know,

16:14

middle child, good girl. that they are

16:16

nothing, that they are unlovable, that they

16:19

need to hold on to that. And

16:21

so I want people to understand that,

16:23

you know, there are three risk factors

16:25

and red flags with high function depression.

16:27

There's that people pleasing or masochism, right?

16:29

There's that anhedonia, the myth, or the

16:32

blah. And then there's that trauma that

16:34

you're running from and that's why you

16:36

can't sit still. And when you understand

16:38

these things, right, then you understand the

16:40

science of what's making you unhappy. if

16:43

you don't understand the science of your

16:45

unhappiness. And the masochism thing is really

16:47

important because a lot of health care

16:49

professionals, a lot of educators like teachers,

16:51

you know, a lot of people who

16:54

are caregivers and moms, right? We don't

16:56

think about ourselves and I recently gave

16:58

a talk to 300 women and I

17:00

asked them like how many of you

17:02

have like sat through a meeting and

17:05

you really had to pee but you

17:07

didn't you just push through and there

17:09

was like an audible laughter because it's

17:11

like every woman in there knew that

17:13

right but I want you to think

17:16

about that like you're robbing yourself of

17:18

a point of joy when you don't

17:20

go to the bathroom and relieve yourself

17:22

because your body is tense you're very

17:24

uncomfortable your brains like thinking when is

17:27

this lady going to go and pee

17:29

but you're on zoom trying to look

17:31

like your perfect like career mom right

17:33

just you know take a bathroom break

17:35

and when you relieve yourself that's actually

17:37

a point of joy because pain robs

17:40

us of joy and so it's those

17:42

little things that I want people to

17:44

have this shift right you know why

17:46

are you carrying five bags this I

17:48

used to be called my therapist used

17:51

to call me the bag lady because

17:53

I'd have two bags here two guys

17:55

and He said to me, don't you

17:57

realize that's masochistic? And I was like,

17:59

what do you mean? He goes, do

18:02

you really need to carry all those

18:04

bags? And I was like, oh my

18:06

gosh. Like no one in my back

18:08

hurts. What was the reason that I

18:10

was doing that? And half the stuff

18:13

in the bags I never even used

18:15

throughout the day. So these little things

18:17

you do that you don't realize are

18:19

self-subtaging because that's robbing you of a

18:21

point of a point of joy. You

18:24

know, like the little things like if

18:26

you have those bags of groceries and

18:28

someone's offering to hold the door and

18:30

you're like, oh, it's okay, I got

18:32

it, I got it. Let them hold

18:35

the door for you. Yeah. So we

18:37

don't realize all the things we do,

18:39

like when someone offers to help you,

18:41

you know, and you're overwhelmed, but you

18:43

feel guilty, you don't want to burden

18:45

them. Let them help you. These are

18:48

all traits of masochistic personality disorder that

18:50

we want to be able to address,

18:52

right? We don't want to victimly, but

18:54

we want you to realize that there

18:56

are things that you're doing that are

18:59

self- sabotaging your happiness so that you

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today. That's G-O-M-I-N-N-O-Dokom to sign

23:01

up. So I think the tricky part of

23:03

it is if you are that type of

23:05

a person, you want to help, you

23:07

want to help. You don't really

23:10

expect that other people are going

23:12

to take advantage of it.

23:14

So you wrote people will

23:16

take advantage of you at

23:18

work in friendships and romantic

23:20

relationships, and even in family

23:23

relationships. If you're giving Other people

23:25

are going to be taking, how do you

23:27

vet relationships properly? You talk

23:29

about that in the book. Yes, so one

23:31

of the things with people have function impression

23:33

is that they tend to be givers,

23:35

right? Again, they bend over backwards, people

23:37

please, and then it's human nature for

23:39

people that want to take. If you're

23:42

given, they will take, and it doesn't

23:44

mean they're a bad person necessarily. It

23:46

just means that it's human nature. You

23:48

know, people pick up on whether or

23:50

not you feel good about yourself. They

23:52

pick up on your low self-worth. And

23:54

then, you know, you project that, and

23:56

then you get it back, right? So

23:58

when I look... as relationships in terms

24:01

of families? Are you the one person,

24:03

the family, who's showing up all the

24:05

time, you know, the dependable one? But

24:07

then when you have a crisis, no

24:09

one's there for you, right? Are you

24:12

that person in the workplace? Who's always

24:14

like, I got it, no, I'll help

24:16

you, yeah, I'll take on that project.

24:18

But then when it comes time for

24:21

helping you, it's crickets, right? Are you

24:23

that friend who's always like listening at

24:25

night while you know other friends trauma

24:27

dump on you? But then when you're

24:29

like, when you need help with a

24:32

heartbreak, crickets, no one's there right? So

24:34

it's important to think about it and

24:36

I use this imagery in my book

24:38

like a seesaw. Like when you think

24:40

about over the past week, you know,

24:43

if someone... who let's say that one

24:45

or two people who are significant in

24:47

your life, who you talk with the

24:49

most, start to see how many times

24:51

they're there for you versus you're there

24:54

for them. And that kind of helps

24:56

you. I'm not encouraging people to keep

24:58

score. I think that that's not healthy,

25:00

right? But just like be mindful of

25:02

that. And you may want to, you

25:05

know, do like a check with them

25:07

and say, listen, you know, I find

25:09

that I'm always kind of showing up

25:11

for you, right? when I need help,

25:13

you're not really there. Sometimes your friends

25:16

will be like, oh my gosh, I

25:18

just thought that you had it all

25:20

figured out. I had no idea, right?

25:22

Because you're projecting this onto them too,

25:24

right? But other times they'll be like,

25:27

well, what do you mean? And they're

25:29

defensive. And then they just kind of

25:31

don't want to be around you, right?

25:33

And that tells you what type of

25:35

relationship it is. And so it's important

25:38

to try to try to think about

25:40

that, in terms of what you're also

25:42

marrying for your kids. Because a lot

25:44

of times these moms who are like

25:47

so people pleasing, they don't realize that

25:49

their kids are seeing that. And so

25:51

then it's being reenacted in their, the

25:53

child's relationship with their friends. You know,

25:55

like observe what your kids are doing

25:58

in the play. Is your child constantly

26:00

like, you know, giving a toy to

26:02

a friend who's irritable and who like

26:04

criticizes? Because they're watching us. You know,

26:06

it's important to know that our relationships

26:09

and our dynamics get mirrored in the

26:11

in our children's relationships. Oh, it's so

26:13

interesting. Because you talked about that, you

26:15

wrote, it's contagious. You can pass it

26:17

on to family, friends, coworkers. So something

26:20

to be aware of. So these are

26:22

all things so far. High functioning depression,

26:24

masochism, anhedonia. Never thought about, considered, and

26:26

so I've learned so much from this

26:28

book high functioning. Let's talk about the

26:31

trauma piece. So you talk about running

26:33

from trauma, and you say, you're running

26:35

from trauma, and then you end up

26:37

just going for these accolades and accomplishments.

26:39

You wrote, distracting ourselves from our trauma

26:42

by hyper focusing on achievements, like becoming

26:44

a star athlete or the school valedictorian

26:46

might look positive, but it prevents us

26:48

from fully shaping our identity. And also,

26:50

it can be masked because you say

26:53

you work extremely hard and your body

26:55

is releasing these endorphins, you don't get

26:57

too exhausted, this can mask the symptoms.

26:59

So you talk about though how this

27:02

high functioning depression, which is present in

27:04

successful people, has a root in trauma.

27:06

And you talk about four different types

27:08

of trauma. One of them is just

27:10

divorce, which the divorce rates are really

27:13

high. And I think because it's so

27:15

common, maybe people wouldn't necessarily... look at

27:17

that as being a trauma situation and

27:19

especially even maybe if it was more

27:21

amicable but you're right about how even

27:24

when it is amicable there can still

27:26

be a quite a bit of trauma.

27:28

Yes and one of the rating scales

27:30

in my book for trauma encapsulates all

27:32

these type of things that are little

27:35

T and big T traumas so big

27:37

T traumas are the ones that like

27:39

when you look at the combat veteran

27:41

research you're thinking about like things that

27:43

are near death, you know, like you're

27:46

thinking about all these things that are

27:48

very, very visible and almost violent, you

27:50

know, things like a motor vehicle accident,

27:52

right, in the PTSD literature, according to

27:54

DSM. those are the type of traumas

27:57

you need for that type of post-traumatic

27:59

stress disorder. But there are other little

28:01

traumas that are emotionally significant and they

28:03

shape the way that we see ourselves

28:05

in the world, they shape the way

28:08

that we interact with the world. There's

28:10

a very famous study called the adverse

28:12

childhood events questionnaire so looking at all

28:14

these things in life that could be

28:17

emotionally painful. And in that they included

28:19

divorce as a childhood trauma because what

28:21

they found is that people who had

28:23

parents who had divorces had these negative

28:25

health outcomes. And so not to say

28:28

that there's anything wrong with divorce, like

28:30

sometimes it's, you know, people need to

28:32

be divorced because it's unhealthy and toxic,

28:34

but two things can be true, right?

28:36

Like, sometimes you need to divorce and

28:39

it's also traumatizing. It's also emotionally, you

28:41

know, significant, and it shapes you. So

28:43

I included things like divorce and my

28:45

trauma inventories that anyone could take if

28:47

they read the book and go to

28:50

my website. And I also included traumas

28:52

that people don't think about, like, you

28:54

know, the collective trauma of COVID-19 pandemic,

28:56

things like generational traumas, like if your

28:58

parents or grandparents came from very little,

29:01

like minded, and you have limited resources

29:03

and you worried, you know, whether or

29:05

not you'd be able to eat and

29:07

things like that, those are all traumas,

29:09

right. you wouldn't get the stamp of

29:12

approval from the DSM, but they do

29:14

shape the way that you interact in

29:16

the world. And divorce is one of

29:18

those things that does that. And for

29:20

some, divorce can be financially traumatizing. For

29:23

some people, they don't, you know, they

29:25

leave a divorce with a lot of

29:27

financial stress, so they're constantly in fight

29:29

or flight. And so when you think

29:32

about trauma responses, you know, like not

29:34

being able to sit still, not feeling

29:36

good enough, feeling as if you're the

29:38

reason for the trauma, all of that.

29:40

can take a toll on people. And

29:43

then what they do is they actually

29:45

avoid processing the trauma by busying themselves.

29:47

And I know when I was going

29:49

through my divorce, I like, again, I

29:51

have to constantly put myself perspective because

29:54

I go through my patterns of high

29:56

functioning depression and then not and then

29:58

being able to slow down and it's

30:00

a daily journey for me for me

30:02

but when I was going through my

30:05

divorce I just remember doing a gazillion

30:07

things at once and my daughter saying

30:09

mommy can we please just slow down

30:11

and I was like oh my gosh

30:13

I'm doing this again you know so

30:16

many of us do this right we

30:18

run from what's bothering us by busying

30:20

by adding things on and we know

30:22

we're like there is no way I

30:24

can keep doing this but then you

30:27

add something on and you say yes,

30:29

and that's a part of this. It's

30:31

running from the pain by avoiding it

30:33

by busying yourself. That's why when you

30:35

sit still, you're restless. When you're not

30:38

busy, you feel empty, right? There's something

30:40

off because that's how you learn to

30:42

cope. But in my book, I have

30:44

these tools to help you process the

30:46

trauma to slow down and start to

30:49

heal so you can access that joy

30:51

again. It is so incredible that you

30:53

figure this out. Well, if you're having

30:55

these financial struggles, you just got divorced,

30:58

you're so sad that it would express

31:00

in that way. And this is something

31:02

that could just so easily be missed.

31:04

Instead, it's expressed as being pathologically productive,

31:06

I like that terminology, using hard work

31:09

and achievements to try to outsmart and

31:11

outrun the trauma. So you talk about

31:13

childhood trauma, adult trauma. which might just

31:15

be like the line of work that

31:17

you're in or a humiliating event, you

31:20

know, generational trauma, you touched on that.

31:22

I thought it was amazing that you

31:24

put about the collective trauma and COVID.

31:26

I'm not seeing anybody write about this,

31:28

Dr. Judith, you wrote, because I feel

31:31

this, no Memorial Day or of remembrance,

31:33

there's no Memorial Day for COVID-19. We've

31:35

just been told to move on. without

31:37

acknowledging how tragic, difficult, and joyless those

31:39

years were, we suffered collectively, but the

31:42

onus is on us to heal individually.

31:44

Those of us who feel like we

31:46

are not back to normal, which I

31:48

feel like it upended ours, family situation

31:50

and I mean it just sort of

31:53

changed our whole course. You wrote something

31:55

bad happened to all of us and

31:57

we're still processing it without the help

31:59

of society. And so like you just

32:01

talk about how sometimes we even ignore

32:04

it or we say well it was

32:06

bad but it wasn't that bad but

32:08

all of these different types of things

32:10

can sort of shift your path to

32:13

trying to outrun the feelings from these

32:15

different situations. Yes, and you know in

32:17

disaster psychiatry, which is that field of

32:19

psychiatry where they focus on bad things

32:21

that happen collectively to society It's really

32:24

important to have things like memorials. Why?

32:26

Because when we know that something bad

32:28

happened to all of us, we feel

32:30

less blame and shame. That's important. You

32:32

know, so like when you think about

32:35

like how you see yourself in the

32:37

world after the pandemic. Many of us

32:39

are looking at our phones and we're

32:41

like, I don't feel back to normal,

32:43

but it looks like that person has

32:46

it all figured out how they bounce

32:48

back like that. Why am I not

32:50

like that? You kind of blame yourself.

32:52

But if there's a day of remembrance,

32:54

and it's like we all went through

32:57

something and here's this day of observance,

32:59

it kind of takes the onus off

33:01

of us, right? It tells us that

33:03

like this bad thing happened to everyone

33:05

to everyone. I didn't do anything to

33:08

deserve it. and that allows people to

33:10

heal. I do research in PTSD all

33:12

the time with children and adults and

33:14

what we're told is that right after

33:16

a traumatizing experience people need to hear

33:19

that it's not their fault. It's so

33:21

important because what happens is that people

33:23

blame and they try to contain and

33:25

kind of intellectualize it by saying well

33:28

maybe if I had done this it

33:30

would have been different maybe if I

33:32

had done that but when you tell

33:34

someone it was not your fault and

33:36

it was out of your control that

33:39

totally relieves them. Well, and the second

33:41

thing is after a trauma, you tell

33:43

them that they're safe. Well, we were

33:45

told that we were safe one minute

33:47

and then we were told, oh, go

33:50

back inside, wear the mask, another minute,

33:52

and then it would. We were put

33:54

on this up and down through that,

33:56

and that is highly traumatizing. We all

33:58

went through that. One minute, yep, take

34:01

the mask off, next minute, nope, put

34:03

it back on, you know, one minute,

34:05

yep, leave your home, next minute, nope,

34:07

go back in your home, don't touch

34:09

anyone. And then the last thing is

34:12

routine. Well, you can't have routine if

34:14

the world is in chaos, right? And

34:16

then after the pandemic, it was just

34:18

one thing after the other. I call

34:20

it after the other. ocean and I

34:23

had that picture of it in my

34:25

book where you get just hit with

34:27

the pandemic then you got hit with

34:29

natural disasters and you got hit with

34:31

war and violence you got hit with

34:34

all the bad news with you know

34:36

the police brutality and you got hit

34:38

with one thing after the other after

34:40

the other uprisings so we just haven't

34:43

had our chance to catch our breath

34:45

it's just been like a wave an

34:47

ocean of trauma and no one's telling

34:49

us it's not our fault. Everyone's saying

34:51

just keep going. So no wonder, no

34:54

wonder many of us are functioning. No

34:56

wonder when many of us are numb

34:58

and blah. You know, we're just trying

35:00

to get through a day. Yeah. It

35:02

would be interesting to have a day

35:05

of remembrance. Our oldest son was like,

35:07

ah, maybe 12 or something when everything

35:09

shut down. So he had like a

35:11

mouth gear and he made this video

35:13

series where he said, And he can't

35:16

even hardly understand it, because he's got

35:18

this whole mouth thing in. And he's

35:20

like, we have begun our social distancing

35:22

with no contact with the outside world,

35:24

you know, everything that awaits us is

35:27

madness. And he did this like little

35:29

log, he did this log for, I

35:31

mean, it was supposed to be two

35:33

weeks. And then it will be like

35:35

day 59 of Jackson's log. And so

35:38

he did this whole thing, but that

35:40

video comes up, you know, from March

35:42

of 2020. You're like, you know. it

35:44

feels like in our family a little

35:46

day of remembrance because he starts this

35:49

log that he did that he posted

35:51

for a while but yeah just like

35:53

sort of this move on piece and

35:55

and then yeah no one really is

35:57

talking about what affected me this way

36:00

or it affected me that way and

36:02

then like you said there's an ocean

36:04

of other things so here is the

36:06

good news the good news is you

36:09

go through this whole situation so if

36:11

someone's listening in they're struggling with Adahonia.

36:13

Does that right? Adadonia. It's okay. Adadonia.

36:15

I really tried. Feeling me. You're struggling

36:17

with people pleasing, you know, to an

36:20

extent that's not healthy for yourself. You're

36:22

struggling with these traumas that you're running

36:24

from and just sort of filling your

36:26

day with things that are leading to

36:28

burnout. You're not experiencing joy. You have

36:31

these five V's that... are really easy

36:33

to grasp on to. Like ways to

36:35

start to fix this in your life.

36:37

So we're not going to talk about

36:39

all of them. People can pick up

36:42

the book high functioning. If you get

36:44

it today, you get that pre-order bonus.

36:46

The exclusive interview with Mel Robbins. So

36:48

you want to pick it up high

36:50

functioning by Dr. Judith Joseph. I want

36:53

to talk about just a few of

36:55

these v's, though, and then people can

36:57

pick up the book and read the

36:59

other ones. One of them I loved

37:01

was vital. Was vital. And you hear

37:04

about stories like this a lot, like

37:06

I talked about that Levi Lusco, I

37:08

just interviewed, I wrote his name backwards,

37:10

he was high functioning. He had had

37:12

a daughter that passed away, so talk

37:15

about trauma, and he said, I mean,

37:17

I don't know, it was something like,

37:19

I've been, I flew for 1 million

37:21

miles on Delta in two years, I

37:24

mean, it was like that, you know,

37:26

going from thing to thing to thing,

37:28

and then all of a sudden, his

37:30

body, his body just stopped. So you

37:32

say that with high functioning depression, you

37:35

stop only when your body shuts down.

37:37

So can you talk about the vitals

37:39

and how important it is you say,

37:41

has a doctor ever asked you about

37:43

the last person you hugged? Yeah. So

37:46

you know, there's the traditional, the traditional

37:48

vitals like, you know, eating foods that

37:50

are not processed in sugar, that feed

37:52

your brain, that don't have a lot

37:54

of, you know, things that are artificial

37:57

in them. and like getting good movements

37:59

that you know you're staying physically healthy

38:01

and you're releasing endorphins and getting good

38:03

sleep so that you're clearing your brain

38:05

of toxic and so forth. Those are

38:08

the three traditional vitals that your doctor

38:10

will tell you about. The annoying vitals,

38:12

right? You know you need to do

38:14

it, but okay, sometimes you get to

38:16

it. But the three non-traditional vitals are

38:19

things that are being overlooked. Your quality

38:21

of your relationships in your life are

38:23

the number one predictor of your longevity.

38:25

And I think if people knew that,

38:27

they would take a hard look around

38:30

them, you know, because think about the

38:32

people who are toxic in your life

38:34

force, literally, you know. Look it up

38:36

the Harvard research says it and then

38:39

the other thing is You know your

38:41

work-life balance many of us don't have

38:43

one and it doesn't exist We take

38:45

work home. We can't take or shut

38:47

our brains off from it and then

38:50

technology You know, there's a whole center

38:52

at Stanford called the Stanford Zoom fatigue

38:54

center and they look at the ways

38:56

that technology impacts your brain, you know

38:58

Right now I'm speaking with you and

39:01

I'm looking at myself and I'm like,

39:03

oh goodness, look at my hair. You

39:05

know, we weren't meant to, look at

39:07

ourselves while talking to others. It is

39:09

unnatural. So we don't even know the

39:12

ways that technology is harming us, right?

39:14

We're still learning that. But to go

39:16

back to your point of touching, right?

39:18

Like, when you touch someone and you're

39:20

connecting with them, you're releasing something called

39:23

oxytocin, which is a love and attachment

39:25

feel good hormone. And if we're not

39:27

getting those snuggles, if we're not getting

39:29

that connection, you know, if we're not

39:31

getting that quality face time because you

39:34

can't still get that release, even if

39:36

you're just having an intentional connection over

39:38

face time with someone, then you're missing

39:40

out on an important vital that actually

39:42

could be saving your life, right? They

39:45

liken loneliness to smoking like a pack

39:47

of cigarettes a day. So not pouring

39:49

into the healthy, loving relationships in your

39:51

life because you're too busy, that's actually

39:54

taking from your life force. And the

39:56

wonderful thing, you know, I talk about

39:58

my fives in my book because I

40:00

use five because most of us have

40:02

five fingers. So I imagine like joys

40:05

with. then reach for us, but we

40:07

just don't know how to access it.

40:09

But if you pull on the 5Vs

40:11

daily, you access your joy again. And

40:13

it's all within our reach. We just

40:16

need help, and we need reminders. And

40:18

I don't want people to do all

40:20

the 5Vs, you know, validating, venting, values,

40:22

vitals, and vision all the time. I

40:24

think that's too much, but pick on

40:27

one or two and try to get

40:29

your points of joy every day. Because

40:31

it is within reach, but many of

40:33

us have just forgotten who we are

40:35

and we've forgotten how to access our

40:38

joy. I love this sentence. We all

40:40

need hugs. And that's good. You know,

40:42

talking about this high-functioning depression, and it

40:44

feels very overwhelming, and one of the

40:46

things that would help is hugging. And

40:49

I love that you throw in these

40:51

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the things I loved was celebrating. I

44:37

want to get there in just a

44:40

minute. because you have this wonderful list

44:42

of ways that you can celebrate. But

44:44

you do talk about with tech, I

44:46

prescribe just one hour a day during

44:49

which people detach from their device and

44:51

focus on something else. I encourage my

44:53

patients to do something sensory during this

44:55

time, whether it's having a delicious meal,

44:58

practicing meditation, being present while playing on

45:00

the floor with their toddler, journaling with

45:02

a pen and notebook, instead of a

45:04

laptop, or walking through a park, feeling

45:07

the breeze on their skin. So the

45:09

tech, the work-life balance, the relationships, the

45:11

relationships. Obviously, the doctor always is going

45:13

to talk about movement, they're going to

45:16

talk about nutrition, they're probably going to

45:18

talk about sleep, but you need to

45:20

make sure that you are paying attention

45:23

to all of these vitals. One more

45:25

of the V's that I just, I

45:27

thought this sentence was so big. It's

45:29

easy, so this is about values. It's

45:32

easy to figure out how to work

45:34

harder in pursuit of emotional health. Oh,

45:36

that's so true. It's so easy to

45:38

sort of figure out, well, if I

45:41

work this extra 10 hours, I can

45:43

make some extra money, but what are

45:45

the goals for my emotional health? Yeah,

45:47

because human beings, I just did a

45:50

project with my daughter. her school and

45:52

I learned so much. I'm like, wow,

45:54

these kids are learning way more than

45:57

I did as a kid. But there

45:59

was a project looking at money and

46:01

currency, right? And how in the early

46:03

days of mankind, people would use, you

46:06

know, things like, okay, I'll trade you

46:08

this. this cow if you make me

46:10

a coat. And they soon realized that,

46:12

wait a second, this cow could produce

46:15

so much more milk and one coat

46:17

is just one coat. It'll, you know,

46:19

so they had to invent money and

46:21

they would use shells and then they

46:24

would use stones, stones were so heavy

46:26

so they had to pivot and finally

46:28

we get to gold, right, and then

46:30

paper money. So I learned a lot

46:33

from my daughter's homework assignment, but the

46:35

reason I bring that up is because

46:37

Our brains were just made to quantify,

46:40

right? We just, we need to know,

46:42

okay, if I do this in life,

46:44

I'll get this, and it has to

46:46

be like this tangible, monetary, you know,

46:49

mathematical thing. So we're just not set

46:51

up to understand the quality of these

46:53

abstract things and that's why you know

46:55

in the early days of mankind or

46:58

woman kind or humankind You know people

47:00

would gravitate towards these gurus because these

47:02

gurus had it figured out they knew

47:04

how to be enlightened and how to

47:07

get people to tap into things that

47:09

I call the values that are priceless

47:11

versus the values that have price tags,

47:14

right? And that's why we have these,

47:16

you know, leaders, these thought leaders, because

47:18

we're all just trying to quantify, you

47:20

know, all the points of joy and

47:23

life that'll make life rich, but we

47:25

just don't know how to because we're

47:27

so used to quantifying based on material

47:29

things or monetary things, but when you

47:32

start to tap into the values that

47:34

anchor you. I have a happiness love

47:36

and I've brought in women recently and

47:38

I handed out rocks and I asked

47:41

them to write the values on their

47:43

rocks, like things that anchor you, that

47:45

hold you down in life, that give

47:47

you meaning and purpose. When you hold

47:50

onto these rocks and you don't let

47:52

the things that are superficial distract you,

47:54

that's how you hold on to joy.

47:57

You know, at the end of the

47:59

day when you're on your deathbed, you're

48:01

not going to... be like, I wish

48:03

I had a Birkenback. You're going to

48:06

say, I wish I had five minutes

48:08

snuggling with my child or with my

48:10

dog or like looking at that sunset

48:12

or, you know, being active in that

48:15

cause that just fed my soul, right?

48:17

These are the things that we want

48:19

to hold on to, but we get

48:21

so distracted by the things that I

48:24

have the monetary values that give you

48:26

a sense of meaning and purpose. And

48:28

I think that's what you're sort of

48:31

saying here. It's both. But it's just

48:33

easier to figure out how to figure

48:35

out the monetary part, but a little

48:37

more difficult or a lot more difficult

48:40

to figure out the emotional part. I

48:42

had read, someone posted recently about if

48:44

you're an entrepreneur and you're able to

48:46

have lunch with your family, you've won.

48:49

You know, that's a non-monetary thing. And

48:51

I thought, oh, that's actually really good

48:53

perspective. So that would help someone with

48:55

their emotional health if they're sort of

48:58

spinning their wheels to be an entrepreneur,

49:00

but you look and see, well, what

49:02

are the things that I can celebrate?

49:04

And you do talk about celebrating. Real

49:07

quick, I just want to hit this,

49:09

because there's an amazing list in here.

49:11

30 mostly free ways to celebrate small

49:14

wins. It's on page 242. I was

49:16

like, this is a great list. You

49:18

say, show me a person with high

49:20

functioning depression. I'll show you a person

49:23

who has surrounded themselves with friends who

49:25

do not want to celebrate their wins.

49:27

But what you say, and this is

49:29

really important, is that celebrating is not

49:32

about bragging. It's about joy. Many of

49:34

us were raised to believe that if

49:36

we talked about good things that happened

49:38

to us, that it's being insensitive. You

49:41

know, I know my parents are, my

49:43

mom's a pastor's wife and my dad's

49:45

a pastor, and so, you know, as

49:48

someone who was this high functioning kid,

49:50

I was always told, like, oh, just,

49:52

you know, be modest, be humble, right?

49:54

So we don't celebrate our wins. We

49:57

take that people pleasing with us into

49:59

adulthood. But it's important to... make time

50:01

in your schedule for joy. And there

50:03

could be. and small wins, I lit

50:06

them all out there. If I get

50:08

my daughter to school on time, that

50:10

is a win. And so I will

50:12

sit in my living room and I'll

50:15

have my fancy coffee because I'm a

50:17

coffee snob and I'll just be like,

50:19

wow, taste those yummy notes. I got

50:22

this coffee and say Martin and it's

50:24

like, it's flavored with rum, it's not

50:26

alcoholic, but it has that rum flavor.

50:28

It's so delicious. And I just sit

50:31

there and I'm like, mmm, this is

50:33

good. And I saw and I and

50:35

I deserve this break because I got

50:37

her to school on time. Her hair

50:40

was combed properly. She didn't look like

50:42

who shot John, you know, when she

50:44

showed up to school. And I'm just

50:46

going to take a second and just

50:49

like acknowledge that win. It could be

50:51

as small as that. But it could

50:53

be bigger like as you know, I

50:55

see this like wrapped up. and then

50:58

they get assigned another project. They don't

51:00

even take a beat in between the

51:02

big project and another big project. They

51:05

just say, okay, onto the next. No,

51:07

like, think about it, sit with your

51:09

team and say, we all did that.

51:11

We finished that. It was great. You

51:14

know, bring on those donuts, you know,

51:16

or just acknowledge that, you know, I

51:18

did that work and let me just

51:20

take a breather. Let me say, I

51:23

will start the other project tomorrow. right,

51:25

or another, or next week, because I

51:27

just need to celebrate that when, right?

51:29

Is these small interventions, again, they're not

51:32

grand, but they really send the message

51:34

to us that we are worthy of

51:36

slowing down, you know, that we are

51:39

worthy of self-praise, you know, that we

51:41

are worthy of this points of joy

51:43

in our lives because joy is within

51:45

reach for a reason for us, but

51:48

we have just forgotten how to access

51:50

it. Dr. Judith, this is so, so

51:52

good. And you talk about celebrate yourself

51:54

like you would a best friend. If

51:57

you don't recognize and celebrate your wins,

51:59

they become overlooked. And when they're overlooked,

52:01

you become numb to winning. You talked

52:03

about how there's athletes that they don't

52:06

even care about winning. They just don't

52:08

want to lose. They feel down if

52:10

they lose, but when they... It just

52:12

feels numb. The small winds help build

52:15

you up so you can experience the

52:17

joy of the larger ones. So many

52:19

wonderful things in this book. Dr. Judith

52:22

Joseph. Okay, what an honor. Listen to

52:24

this. Judith Joseph MDMBA is a board

52:26

certified psychiatrist, chair of the Women in

52:28

Medicine Initiative for Columbia University, Vageless College

52:31

of Physicians and Surgeons, clinical assistant professor

52:33

of child and adolescent psychology at NYU

52:35

Lagone Medical Center. She has conducted several

52:37

clinical research studies, pediatric, women's health, is

52:40

a principal investigator of the research lab.

52:42

Manhattan Behavioral Medicine, developed the TIES method

52:44

to address mental health symptoms in menopause.

52:46

She is on the board of Let's

52:49

Talk Menopause. She received a 2023 congressional

52:51

proclamation from the U.S. House of Representatives

52:53

for her social media advocacy and research

52:56

and mental health, lecture and professional speaker

52:58

at prestigious institutions. I mean this is

53:00

incredible Fortune 500 companies across US and

53:02

Europe. You have been on Oprah's Daily,

53:05

the life you want. Good Morning America.

53:07

CBS today. I mean I'm skipping. People

53:09

need to know that I'm skipping over

53:11

things. Good Morning America. Investigative Special on

53:14

ADHD. A series on PTSD. Dr. Judas

53:16

was named as the 2024 Black Health

53:18

Hero by Pop Sugar. She was the

53:20

2024 very well-minded, top 25 mental health

53:23

leader. What an honor. to get an

53:25

opportunity to talk with you, Dr. Judith.

53:27

And if people are interested in these

53:29

topics, obviously you can hear, I mean,

53:32

I just, I like pulled out bits

53:34

and pieces. There was way more than

53:36

that, that people can check out your

53:39

podcast as well, which is called The

53:41

Vault with Dr. Judith for all of

53:43

these different types of topics. The book

53:45

is called High Functioning, Overcome, Your Hidden

53:48

Depression, Your Hidden Depression, and Reclaim Your

53:50

Joy. We always end our show with

53:52

the same question. What And so there's

53:54

just so many, but you know, I

53:57

remember that because, you know, There's a

53:59

lot of local things in my backyard,

54:01

mangoes, bananas, and every day the milkman

54:03

and the fishman would come by and

54:06

say, milkfish, come and get it, you

54:08

know. But every weekend after church, we

54:10

would go to the beach and then

54:13

watch my dad play in the savanna

54:15

because he loved cricket. But we just

54:17

had so much access to nature. And

54:19

it was just like part of the

54:22

routine. You know, you go to the

54:24

beach, you have you, it's called a

54:26

bake and fish. It's like a fried

54:28

bread with some fish on it and

54:31

you watch daddy play cricket. It was

54:33

just the best, you know. So I

54:35

love the water. I live in New

54:37

York City now and I'm right on

54:40

the water and I just love being

54:42

around nature. So you can't access nature

54:44

anywhere in the world. It may not

54:46

be big. but access it just in

54:49

small ways because it just reminds you

54:51

of how important you are that you're

54:53

here for a reason in this big

54:56

universe. Dr. Judith Joseph, what an honor.

54:58

Cues congrats on your new book, High

55:00

Functioning. Thank you so much for being

55:02

here. Thank you for having me. You

55:07

know over time life can get you down discouragement starts

55:10

to creep in and eventually we just stop letting ourselves

55:12

hope for more We say things like I believe it

55:14

when I see it and don't get your hopes up

55:16

Sounds like good grown-up advice, right? Actually, it's not Hey,

55:18

I'm Christie right number one national best-selling author speaker business

55:20

coach and mom of three. Oh, and I have a

55:22

podcast called get your hopes up, which is what I

55:25

want to tell you about Romans 1513 says, may the

55:27

God of hope fill you with all joy and peace

55:29

as you trust in him so that you may overflow

55:31

with hope by power of the Holy Spirit. And that

55:33

is exactly what my show is about. Whether I'm telling

55:35

one of my latest crazy God stories or giving you

55:37

practical advice to live out your faith, I love hanging

55:40

out with you every Monday to help you get to

55:42

know God, get closer to him and get your hopes

55:44

up again. Listen to get your wherever

55:46

you get your you get and

55:48

you can learn more at

55:50

you can.com. your hopes up.com..com. hopes up.com. Let's be real.

55:53

Talking about be real, talking about

55:55

intimacy can be awkward, even

55:57

with your spouse, but it

55:59

doesn't have to be. be.

56:01

We are Alana, Kyle, and Kyle,

56:03

and Tira, a of the of the

56:05

Kingdom and we're all about

56:08

keeping it real and helping

56:10

you add some spice and

56:12

deeper connection into your marriage, and

56:14

specifically when it comes to

56:16

what happens in the bedroom.

56:18

We don't shy away from

56:20

the tough conversations that often

56:23

get missed in Christian circles.

56:25

away With us, tough get laughs,

56:27

tips, fresh ideas, and challenges

56:29

to strengthen your relationship and

56:31

bring it to the next

56:33

level. tips, let's face it,

56:35

navigating intimacy as a Christian

56:38

can be confusing, and finding

56:40

safe, wholesome resources can be

56:42

tough. Because subscribe now on Apple,

56:44

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56:46

get your and join us

56:48

each week on on the Kingdom Sexuality podcast.

56:56

Thank watching.