0:00

You know that feeling when your kids are

0:02

asking for another snack and you're thinking, I

0:04

just fed you, but you're also trying to

0:06

avoid giving them junk. Yeah, same. That's

0:08

why I love Thrive Market, my go

0:11

-to online grocery store for getting all

0:13

of my healthy essentials delivered right to

0:15

my door. No crowds, no label

0:17

reading marathons in the snack aisle, just

0:19

real food that I trust. I don't

0:21

know about you, but I want to

0:23

pronounce the ingredients on my kids' snack

0:25

labels. Thrive Market bans over 100

0:27

,000 harmful ingredients, so I know I'm

0:29

in good hands. Their team does the

0:31

research, and I just click Add to

0:33

Cart. Right now, my kids are

0:35

obsessed with the Simple Mills crackers, perfect

0:38

for lunch boxes, and I love that Thrive

0:40

remembers what we liked last time with

0:42

their Buy It Again feature. I

0:44

also stocked up on Primal Kitchen

0:46

sauces using their high protein filter,

0:48

which is such a time saver.

0:50

Plus, Thrive Market gives back. They

0:52

accept SNAP, EBT, and offer free

0:54

memberships for low -income families through

0:56

their Thrive Gives program. So when

0:58

I shop, I know I'm supporting

1:00

a brand with heart. Healthy

1:02

groceries simplified. Ready

1:05

to make the switch? Go

1:07

to thrivemarket.com slash 1 ,000

1:09

hours for 30 % off

1:11

your first order plus

1:13

a free $60 gift. That's

1:15

T -H -R -I -V -E, market.com

1:17

slash 1 ,000 hours, thrivemarket.com

1:19

slash 1 ,000 hours. Welcome

1:22

to the 1 ,000 Hours Outside Podcast.

1:24

My name is Ginny Orchard. I've been

1:26

looking forward to this for so long

1:28

because Dr. Kate Shanahan is back with

1:30

us today for a second time. Welcome,

1:32

Dr. Kate. Oh, thank you so

1:34

much for inviting me back. It is

1:36

great to be here with you. I am

1:38

slowly marching through your books because they

1:40

are changing my life. I am the type

1:42

of person with a pathologic hunger, the

1:44

type of person that was consuming all of

1:47

these vegetable oils, had no idea, and

1:49

you have changed my life. I read the

1:51

book Dark Calories. I never thought I

1:53

would get an opportunity to talk with you.

1:55

I read it just for my own

1:57

sake, and then you so graciously came on

1:59

And I have gotten message after message

2:02

after message about that episode and dealing with

2:04

something that people don't even really know

2:06

is a thing, but is affecting our health

2:08

to such a degree. And so then

2:10

I'm marching through your books because that one

2:12

was so life changing for me. And

2:14

I recently read the fat burn fix, boost

2:17

energy and hunger and lose weight by

2:19

using body fat for fuel. Welcome back, Dr.

2:21

Kate. Well, thank

2:23

you so much. I'm so excited

2:25

to talk with you about

2:27

this book because this is my

2:29

weight loss manual. It's

2:31

like, really, it's a manual

2:33

for human metabolism because when I

2:36

put it together, I realized, wait

2:38

a second, I'm helping people

2:41

understand how their

2:43

metabolism is this amazing set of

2:45

integrated body systems that regulates

2:47

their body weight automatically when it's

2:49

working right and their appetites

2:51

which are supposed to drive them

2:53

towards nutrients when it's working

2:55

right right so that our cravings

2:58

are for nutrition not sugar

3:00

and and how all of this

3:02

is tied into our hormones

3:04

and so it's just like I

3:06

was like, this is the

3:08

manual for a human metabolism. And

3:10

I kind of wish I had

3:13

called it that, but I like letters that's,

3:15

you know, I like titles that start like

3:17

with the same letter. So fat burn

3:19

fix is what it was, what it became. Yes.

3:22

And it's just a different look at

3:24

trying to increase your energy and looking at

3:26

long -term health implications. Can we kick it

3:28

off here? You talk about nutrition and

3:30

training. And I want to kick it off

3:32

here because you've talked about it and

3:34

then I experienced it when I put out

3:36

your episode, there is so much pushback.

3:38

You're like, well, how could there be

3:40

so much pushback? I was just sharing

3:42

my own personal story of feeling this pathologic

3:45

hunger since I was a child and

3:47

I read your book and I make these

3:49

changes and it's changing my whole life.

3:51

So that's all I'm sharing. I'm like, it

3:53

worked for me and you're saying vegetable

3:55

oils are in So many things. I had

3:57

no idea. It's in the organic protein

3:59

powder at Costco. It's in the organic granola bars.

4:02

I mean, it's in so many things and I

4:04

had no idea. So you

4:06

talk about nearly everything I'd learned

4:08

about nutrition in medical school was

4:10

wrong. In fact, most people dishing

4:12

out dietary advice don't actually learn

4:14

much about nutrition. Most health practitioners

4:16

give terrible nutrition advice because most

4:19

of the nutrition education they receive

4:21

during training is either backwards or

4:23

just plain wrong. You say we

4:25

don't even have an agreement on

4:27

if eggs are what we should

4:29

eat for breakfast or if they

4:31

give heart attacks. So can

4:33

you just talk about the issue of

4:36

confusion? Can we start there? Just kick

4:38

it off there because this is going to help

4:40

you so much and you have to be

4:42

open -minded toward it. Absolutely. It's

4:44

a great way to start

4:46

off, because I was

4:48

confused when I first started

4:50

looking into nutrition science

4:52

from a different perspective. And

4:55

that perspective was a

4:57

historical perspective, or what's called

4:59

the ancestral perspective. What

5:01

did our ancestors eat? Great

5:03

grandparents now, you have to go

5:05

back to. And how healthy were they?

5:08

And as soon as I did

5:10

that, I came into dramatic shocking

5:13

conflict with everything that I had

5:15

held dear as the truth from

5:17

not just my medical training, but,

5:19

you know, the programming we get

5:21

as consumers when we read cereal

5:23

boxes that tell us that Cheerios

5:26

are healthy because they lower our

5:28

cholesterol. So what I found

5:30

was, like, I found

5:32

that people were so much

5:34

healthier before we started eating

5:36

vegetable oils when we were

5:38

eating these supposedly unhealthy animal

5:40

fats. And that created

5:42

confusion in my mind

5:44

that I had to

5:46

resolve. And that

5:49

took me like months of

5:51

initial research, right? And then

5:53

it continued and continued for

5:55

decades because I do get

5:57

that pushback myself, right? Like

5:59

I discovered that we were

6:01

lied to. That's why there's

6:03

this confusion. We have

6:05

all been lied to. medical

6:07

professionals, well -meaning health professionals

6:09

who care about their

6:11

patients, who believe that they

6:13

know the best nutrition

6:15

information because they trained. I'm

6:17

talking about dietitians. I'm

6:19

talking about the very people

6:21

giving us pushback on

6:23

this idea because they too

6:26

held dear the training

6:28

that they probably paid dearly

6:30

for. My medical education

6:32

was expensive. I was paying off

6:34

loans for years and years. you know, and you value

6:36

what you pay for, right? So

6:38

that's why there's confusion, because we

6:40

were lied to. 200

6:43

years ago, there was no

6:45

confusion really about this, you

6:47

know, our eggs healthy is

6:49

butter healthy. There was no

6:51

confusion. It was considered wholesome

6:53

food. Everybody was on the

6:55

same page, except for some

6:57

extremists who were for various

6:59

reasons, whether it was, you

7:01

know, religious or some other

7:03

kind of non -science -based philosophy,

7:06

right? Like where they weren't

7:08

really trying to do something

7:10

for physical health, but perhaps

7:12

for spiritual beliefs, right?

7:14

Nothing wrong with that, but that's not science. So

7:16

there wasn't controversy. the controversy started

7:19

after we were lied to. I

7:21

think it's helpful to understand the

7:23

timeline of this controversy. There

7:25

wasn't any in the 1930s, in the 1920s,

7:27

and all the years prior to that. And

7:29

in the 1950s, that's

7:31

when this idea kind of

7:34

was injected artificially into

7:36

the medical conversation. And

7:38

what had happened in that

7:40

time was the voices of

7:42

dissent were systematically silenced and

7:44

snuffed out. That's

7:46

why we have what appears

7:48

to be confusion. Or

7:51

what is confusion? I mean, it's

7:53

confusing. Why are people like me

7:55

saying something that makes sense to

7:57

people intuitively? But it's so different

7:59

than these other arguments that on

8:01

the surface also make some sense.

8:04

And that's a setup for confusion,

8:06

where you tell people that they

8:08

are experts and you set them

8:10

up with misinformation. And

8:12

then you tell people like

8:14

me who are just independent researchers,

8:16

not backed up by a

8:18

university or any kind of authoritative

8:20

body. You tell people like

8:23

me to shut up and sit down when

8:25

I realize, hey, wait a second, we were

8:27

lied to. That is a

8:29

recipe for mass consumer

8:31

confusion. So if you're feeling confused,

8:33

that's why. Right and someone's making

8:35

a lot of money off of that and

8:37

I learned about in dark calories You talked

8:39

about propaganda and Edward Bernays and I ended

8:41

up reading one of his books and it

8:43

was like he was involved with tobacco and

8:45

then he was involved with processed foods and

8:47

they're using these Experts, you

8:49

know, to push forward these ideas and

8:52

people are following and their health

8:54

is falling apart. And that's what you've

8:56

been on the front line seeing.

8:58

You wrote, the problem is not that

9:00

nutrition is hopelessly complicated. The problem

9:02

is that the science is driven by

9:04

special interest groups, politics and money.

9:06

And vegetable oils are central to big

9:08

food profitability. They are

9:11

possibly the defining feature of processed

9:13

foods. The processed food industry

9:15

would collapse overnight if vegetable oils

9:17

and sugar were not available

9:19

for these products. So

9:21

I want to talk about this really big thing.

9:23

We've never talked about it on this show at

9:25

all. And that's diabetes. We've never

9:27

talked about it. But obviously, you start hearing

9:30

about it. It used to be called

9:32

adult onset. Then they changed the name to

9:34

type two. And I read things in

9:36

your book that I've never read anywhere else.

9:38

This is in the fat burn fix.

9:40

And obviously, I think, you know, we're thinking

9:42

about our children and their children. You

9:44

write, diabetes is

9:46

easily prevented and reversed

9:48

without medications. Overconsumption

9:51

of vegetable oil is the

9:53

root cause of the entire

9:55

diabetes spectrum. Obviously, this

9:57

is a majorly big conversation topic, and

9:59

it's woven throughout this book talking

10:01

about where we get our energy from.

10:04

So I don't know if I'm

10:06

having you bite off too much. But

10:08

I was sort of floored to read

10:10

about this. I've never read it anywhere else.

10:13

Yes, it's so important to talk about

10:15

this. And before we dive into the

10:18

question, I need to point out that

10:20

type one diabetes is a totally different

10:22

animal. Type 2 diabetes is

10:24

what the focus of the book is.

10:27

And when I say diabetes spectrum, I'm

10:29

talking about type 2 diabetes.

10:32

And type 2 diabetes, what's the

10:34

difference between type 1 and type

10:37

2? I think it's worth just

10:39

explaining that briefly. So type 1

10:41

diabetes is an autoimmune disorder of

10:43

the pancreas, where the cells that

10:45

produce the hormone insulin that lowers

10:47

blood sugar get attacked by the

10:50

immune system and destroyed. Poor

10:52

pancreas can no longer pump out

10:54

insulin like it's supposed to do.

10:56

It's supposed to be pumping some out

10:58

all the time to help keep

11:00

the blood sugar from going too

11:02

high due to the fact that the

11:04

body is always, you know, there's

11:07

always, the body's amazing. To

11:09

keep our blood sugar regulated, there's

11:11

actually about 20 hormones involved and

11:13

some are pushing it, pushing sugar

11:15

down and some are pushing it

11:18

back up. At the same time,

11:20

this is all going on, you

11:22

know, subconsciously, our body's regulating all

11:24

this, and that is how a

11:26

healthy metabolism keeps our blood sugar

11:29

regulated in such a narrow range

11:31

that a low blood sugar is

11:33

a half a teaspoon of sugar

11:35

in the entire bloodstream, and a

11:37

high blood sugar is one and

11:39

a quarter teaspoons. So

11:42

yeah, we're talking about like,

11:44

in terms of calories, we're

11:46

talking about like 12 total

11:48

calories is a low blood

11:50

sugar, and 24 total calories

11:52

is a high blood sugar.

11:55

So I say this just to help you

11:57

understand, and yes, it is a big

11:59

question, but it's a very important, fascinating topic.

12:02

What we're saying is that a normal

12:04

blood sugar, let's say is 16 calories

12:06

worth of energy. Imagine spreading

12:08

out. 16 calories throughout five

12:11

liters of blood, which is

12:13

how much we have, which

12:15

actually represents something like thousands,

12:17

tens of thousands of miles

12:19

of arteries, veins, and capillaries.

12:21

We have over 10 ,000

12:23

miles worth of arteries, veins,

12:26

and capillaries. So imagine spreading

12:28

out 16 calories of sugar

12:30

and all of that. And

12:32

when you think about it

12:34

that way, you realize, gee,

12:36

sugar is not. Probably not

12:38

designed by nature to be

12:41

our primary fuel because that's

12:43

pretty scarce, right? What

12:45

is designed by nature to be

12:47

our primary fuel is our

12:49

own body fat and what? Type

12:51

2 diabetes is what this

12:53

spectrum is. And to answer your

12:55

question, what we're talking about

12:57

is a metabolic state where our

12:59

body fat is poisonous to

13:01

our mitochondria. That is type

13:03

2 diabetes. And

13:05

our mitochondria generate energy for ourselves.

13:08

So type 2 diabetes is not a mystery.

13:10

I've discovered what the root cause is.

13:12

And by the way, this is news.

13:15

I just got an academic

13:17

paper accepted for publication. Yes,

13:20

on this exact

13:22

topic. So it's hopefully going

13:24

to be some real serious discussion.

13:27

It's going to be in the frontiers

13:29

in nutrition. Wonderful. Yeah,

13:31

so there's going to be a lot of

13:33

pushback there, I'm sure. But what

13:35

I'm saying is type 2 diabetes, this

13:37

thing that you haven't talked about on your

13:39

show yet, but now we're talking about

13:41

it. And we're talking about it, Ginny, in

13:43

a more scientific way than any other

13:45

show talks about it because I haven't talked

13:48

about it in this way either. you

13:50

know, because I just finally kind of put

13:52

my thoughts together in a more deep

13:54

way to write this paper that I just

13:56

got published. So this is

13:58

all cutting edge. So what is type 2

14:00

diabetes? It's not a disease

14:02

of the pancreas primarily. It's

14:05

not a disease of the liver. It's

14:07

not a disease caused by overweight. It's

14:10

not a disease that's going to be

14:12

cured just by losing weight. It's

14:14

a disease of our

14:16

metabolism where our body fat

14:18

does not provide ourselves

14:20

with energy. It's primarily

14:22

a disease of energy. And

14:24

so I call my paper

14:26

the energy model of insulin

14:29

resistance. And insulin resistance, by the

14:31

way, is the root cause of pre -diabetes

14:33

and then type 2 diabetes. Right.

14:35

And you say the weight gain is coming

14:37

after often that that's what's happening. And then

14:39

there was this other thing where you talked

14:41

about how a lot of these different diseases

14:44

I want to leave you with this last idea,

14:46

a way to look at the relationship between

14:48

metabolic health, fat burn, and diet. All

14:50

or nearly all chronic diseases that

14:52

doctors see and treat every day

14:54

are manifestations of the reality that

14:56

the person is developing diabetes. Whether

14:58

you've been diagnosed with that or

15:00

a heart attack or a stint

15:02

or migraines or a psychiatric condition,

15:04

autoimmunity, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, even

15:06

cancer, you are somewhere on the

15:08

diabetes spectrum. And here's the good

15:10

news. That means you have more

15:12

control over your own health destiny

15:14

than you have been told. So

15:16

you talk about these small steps

15:18

over time. So the vegetable

15:20

oil. So here's what I got

15:22

out of it sort of as a

15:24

big picture is that we're supposed to burn

15:27

our body fat for fuel, not the

15:29

sugar. And that when we've had all these

15:31

vegetable oils, it makes our

15:33

bodies have weird fat. Correct. Our

15:35

body fat is not as weird.

15:37

That's right. It's actually toxic. to

15:39

ourselves when we try and burn

15:41

it. So it's like we have

15:44

this burden of fat that we're

15:46

carrying around that wants to help

15:48

us be healthy, but it can't

15:50

because it is sick itself. And

15:53

so it poisons our poor cells

15:55

when they try to burn it for

15:57

energy. Vacation

16:00

season is nearly upon us. We

16:02

are actually spending a week at the

16:04

ocean in South Carolina soon and

16:06

I can't wait. This year I'm treating

16:08

myself to the Lux upgrades with

16:10

Quince's high quality travel essentials at their

16:12

prices. There are super cute lightweight

16:15

European linen styles from $30, washable

16:17

silk tops, and comfy lounge sets,

16:19

and they even have premium luggage

16:21

options and stylish tote bags to

16:23

carry it all. The best part?

16:26

All Quince items are priced 50

16:28

-80 % less than similar brands. By

16:30

partnering directly with top factories, Quince

16:32

cuts out the costs of the

16:35

middleman and passes the savings on

16:37

to us. And Quince only works

16:39

with factories that use safe, ethical,

16:41

and responsible manufacturing practices and premium

16:43

fabrics and finishes. I love that.

16:46

I can't wait to slip on

16:48

their 100 % organic cotton crew sweater

16:50

and slide into their Italian leather

16:52

platform sandals for those cool evening

16:54

walks on the beach. For

16:57

your next trip, treat yourself

16:59

to the lux upgrades you deserve

17:01

from Quints. Go to quints.com

17:03

slash outside for 365 day returns

17:05

plus free shipping on your

17:07

order. That's Q -U -I -N

17:09

-C -E dot com slash

17:12

outside to get free shipping

17:14

and 365 day returns.

17:16

Quinn's dot com slash outside.

17:20

This episode is brought to you by

17:22

State Farm. You might say all kinds of

17:24

stuff when things go wrong, but these are

17:27

the words you really need to remember. Like

17:29

a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've

17:31

got options to fit your unique insurance needs,

17:33

meaning you can talk to your agent to

17:36

choose the coverage you need, have coverage options

17:38

to protect the things you value most, file

17:40

a claim right on the State Farm mobile

17:43

app, and even reach a real person when

17:45

you need to talk to someone. Like a

17:47

good neighbor, State Farm is there. To

17:49

the salon owners, the spa

17:51

experts, the med spa mavens,

17:53

those who make every cut,

17:55

every massage, every facial feel

17:57

like a small miracle. At

18:00

Boulevard, they see you. That's why

18:02

they built the first and only

18:04

client experience platform that combines online

18:06

scheduling, marketing, messaging, and payments, and

18:08

works as beautifully as you do.

18:11

See for yourself at joinblvd.com

18:13

slash Spotify. Boulevard,

18:15

software for self -care businesses.

18:20

So, you say medically speaking, body fat is

18:22

actually an organ and you go through

18:24

this book, The Fat Burn Fix. It's got...

18:27

like a plan that you can do

18:29

to make some changes and it explains all

18:31

of this. But what you say is

18:33

that we treat the type one and type

18:35

two the same way. You wrote, I'm

18:37

convinced that type two diabetics should not be

18:39

treated with insulin and that it's a

18:42

totally different disease and that insulin itself can

18:44

make you more insulin resistant when you

18:46

use it to lower your blood sugar. You're

18:48

making your metabolic problems worse. So can

18:50

you talk about then how that shift, if

18:52

you shift out of You talk about

18:54

these five things that you can change. And

18:57

to me, they were like, that's not

18:59

that bad. You know, I'm like, I can

19:01

have more salts. It makes your food

19:03

taste better. And you go through these five

19:05

things. I can drink more water, have

19:07

a couple glasses at every meal. I could

19:09

stop snacking, you know, these different things. I

19:12

read the dark calories and I thought, I

19:14

can just cut out these granola bars.

19:16

I don't have to eat that granola

19:18

bar that's got sunflower oil in it,

19:20

whatever. So anyway, you talk about the

19:22

solutions, but how does the shift away

19:25

from these toxic oils, how would that

19:27

be a solution if you are a

19:29

type 2 diabetic? Yes,

19:31

that's a great question. That is

19:33

the ultimate solution because it fixes the

19:35

problem at its root. You know,

19:37

we all talk about root causes, right?

19:39

Well, the root cause of type

19:41

2 diabetes is that we've been eating

19:43

these poisonous oils. These oils, I

19:45

should say, that poison our body fat.

19:48

And what that does is

19:50

it sets us up for

19:52

energy deficits and something called

19:54

oxidative stress that I could

19:56

talk more about in dark

19:58

calories and dark calories explains

20:00

that oxidative stress is that

20:02

root cause that pathologists find

20:04

with every single disease and

20:06

vegetable oils are oxidative stress

20:08

in a bottle because their

20:10

chemistry is such that it

20:13

you know gives us this

20:15

weird body fat that is

20:17

basically an organ our body

20:19

fat is an organ but

20:21

when we fill it up

20:23

with seed oils we make

20:25

this organ essentially dysfunctional. We

20:27

give ourselves organ failure. It's

20:29

just that the organ is our own body

20:31

fat, right? And so we don't think of that

20:33

as an essential organ, but when it fails,

20:35

that's how we get type 2 diabetes. So what

20:37

do we do to reverse type 2 diabetes?

20:39

Well, there's really just the five steps that I

20:41

lay out. And the first one is stop

20:43

eating vegetable oils, control your carbs

20:45

and your sugar intake and try to

20:47

seek out what I call the slow

20:49

digesting carbohydrates that are really carbs that

20:52

are from whole foods, right? So

20:54

instead of regular, you know, bread,

20:56

you get bread made with sprouted grain

20:58

or sourdough bread. And let's see

21:00

what I stepped through. I think seek

21:02

salt, right? Like salt does make

21:04

some really important healthy foods taste better.

21:06

Drink water. You know, what

21:08

we do when we drink water

21:11

is we drink less soda. That's the

21:13

subtext there is please don't drink

21:15

anything with sugar or a lot of

21:17

calories between meals. that's bad for

21:19

our hormones. And I explain that

21:21

in the fat burn fix how it messes

21:23

up our hormones. And it shuts down any

21:25

fat burning that we are supposed to do,

21:27

that we are able to do, I mean.

21:29

And then the fifth thing I believe is

21:31

smart supplementation. And that is to help support

21:33

our bodies with vitamins and minerals that can

21:35

help us burn off this toxic body fat.

21:37

because we're kind of on a tightrope here.

21:40

We have body fat, we need to get

21:42

rid of, we need to be able to

21:44

burn it to be healthy, but it's got

21:46

toxins in it. So what on earth do

21:48

we do? It feels, doesn't that sound like

21:50

a catch -22 to you? So

21:53

how we get out of it

21:55

is gradually and slowly by following those

21:57

five rules. And then

21:59

the other one, or the other very important

22:01

rule is to not snack. And the way

22:03

that we do that is we build meals

22:05

that sustain our energy so we don't get hangry

22:08

between meals like so many of us

22:10

are until we understand what you know how

22:12

to fix our metabolism like you are

22:15

you mentioned at the very beginning you know

22:17

you're going to cure your hangry that's

22:19

how you reverse your type 2 diabetes and

22:21

you do it slowly and gradually and

22:23

as soon as you you know even if

22:25

you're on medications, as

22:27

soon as you control your

22:29

carbohydrates, you don't need so

22:32

many medications. And as soon

22:34

as literally the day that you start

22:36

eating these healthier fats that I recommend,

22:38

like foods that have healthy fats, including

22:40

butter and coconut oil and avocados, you

22:42

know, plants and animals all will work

22:44

for you. As soon as you do

22:46

that, you feel that you have more

22:48

energy and you don't need to snack.

22:50

And so it's a It's a virtuous

22:52

cycle where you don't need to consume

22:55

so many carbohydrates so that you can

22:57

quickly get off any medications. And

22:59

of course, I got to add that

23:01

caveat. You don't want to do this without

23:03

talking to your doctor so you understand

23:05

how to safely get yourself off medications. And

23:07

basically, you also need to know that

23:09

to cut your carbohydrates down, if you're taking

23:11

insulin, you should be checking your sugars

23:14

because you might suddenly be taking too much

23:16

and then you could go dangerously low.

23:18

We don't want that either. What

23:21

a message of hope. You wrote

23:23

most doctors, including diabetes specialists, think

23:25

of diabetes type two as a

23:27

chronic and progressive disease, meaning it

23:29

just keeps getting worse and worse

23:31

until you die. And I look

23:33

at these five steps and I'm

23:35

like, all right, it's not that

23:37

big. I just, I

23:39

think it's doable. You wrote this.

23:42

Vegetable oil makes us hungry

23:44

by switching on the same

23:46

kind of powerful hunger signals

23:48

that smoking marijuana generates and

23:50

it interferes with the satiety.

23:52

Is that how you say

23:54

that? Correct. Satiety signals by

23:56

driving up brain inflammation. Just

23:58

about everyone is suffering from the effects

24:00

of a lifetime vegetable oil conception. So

24:02

let's talk about the snacking because the

24:04

vegetable oils are making us want to

24:06

have snacks. And also, I mean, I

24:08

grew up in an era where you

24:10

had snack time, you know, it was

24:12

like 10 a .m. And you supposed

24:14

to have these small snacks through the

24:16

day to keep your blood sugar even.

24:18

And you say we're not supposed to

24:21

need regular snacks or even regular meals. Yes,

24:23

and you know it's fascinating you say you grew

24:25

up in a time where snacking was kind of

24:27

built into our culture because when I grew up

24:29

and I don't know if that

24:31

I'm that much older than you, maybe an entire,

24:34

probably an entire generation older, but that's just

24:36

20, 25 years, right? I'm 58. So

24:38

like, to see if people have perspective

24:40

of when I grew up, kids didn't

24:42

snack. We didn't have snack breaks in

24:44

school. And, you know, if we went

24:46

outside to play and we came in

24:48

and we were hungry because we were

24:50

playing hard, even if it was like

24:52

four o 'clock in the afternoon, five

24:54

o 'clock in the afternoon, our

24:56

parents would say, you're going

24:59

to tough it up because

25:01

dinner's coming soon and I don't

25:03

want you to ruin your

25:05

appetite. Don't have anything, right? And

25:07

I just don't see that

25:09

happening. I don't hear that happening

25:11

anymore. And what that reflects

25:13

is this fundamental shift in our

25:15

body's metabolism that literally no

25:17

obesity specialist is talking about. No

25:19

dietitian is talking about it.

25:21

If you go to your dietitian

25:23

and they say, oh, yeah,

25:25

see, that's just an internet trend.

25:27

I think maybe you should follow up with,

25:30

then why is suddenly everybody so hangry

25:32

and needing to snack? Did you know that

25:34

wasn't normal? Just one short generation ago,

25:36

back when I grew up, which was the

25:38

70s and 80s, you know, and if

25:40

they don't have an answer for that, then

25:42

just politely say, well, this doctor, Dr.

25:44

Kate Shanahan, who is an MD and is

25:47

the mother of the no seed oil

25:49

movement, why don't you maybe think about looking

25:51

in her books because she can explain

25:53

it and you might be very interested. Anyway,

25:55

I think I got off topic for

25:57

your question. I apologize. Well, we're

25:59

talking about snacking. And I think like this is

26:01

an interest. So I'm 44. So we're a decade different,

26:03

just one decade. And I maybe

26:06

we talked about this in the other episode,

26:08

but I have this distinct memory from the

26:10

third grade. Now, this is going to be

26:12

like, this is a powerful memory I have.

26:14

You hardly remember anything from your growing up

26:16

years. But in the third grade, they were

26:18

trying to teach us about discriminating based off

26:20

of looks. And so when I was,

26:22

you know, eight years old, If you

26:24

have brown eyes, you weren't allowed to have

26:26

snack that day. And if you have

26:28

blue eyes, you were. It was about teaching

26:30

about, you know, discrimination based off of your

26:32

looks. And I was so mad. I

26:35

mean, it was so impactful to

26:37

me because I wanted my snack so

26:39

badly. Like that's how broken I

26:41

think my metabolism was as a child,

26:43

as a third grader. And so

26:45

you wrote snacking, train your metabolism to

26:47

make you want more snacks. And

26:49

then you wrote, maybe we just shouldn't

26:51

be doing it. But that we're

26:54

scared of hunger because it's desperation hunger

26:56

and nine out of ten adults

26:58

using nine out of ten adults in

27:00

your practice no longer experience hunger

27:02

the way nature intended it. So what

27:04

should hunger feel like or be

27:06

like? Yeah, so there's a

27:08

normal hunger, which is a

27:11

endangered species these days. And then

27:13

there's what I call pathologic

27:15

hunger, meaning related to pathology

27:17

or disease, that disease being insulin

27:19

resistant. And that's what

27:22

makes you hangry. So normal hunger

27:24

is just really supposed to

27:26

be kind of a polite reminder

27:28

about meal times. It's really

27:30

supposed to be just a light

27:32

fluttering or stomach grumbling, which

27:34

indicates that your stomach has got

27:37

its digestive juices revving up, and

27:39

it's driven by, again,

27:42

the body's so amazing. your circadian

27:44

rhythm, your stomach knows what time

27:46

it is, at least when it's

27:48

healthy. And it knows what meal

27:50

time is. And by the way, this is why

27:52

your cat or your dog always gives you

27:54

that special look. five o 'clock

27:56

before feeding, right? Because they have it

27:58

in their guts too. This

28:00

circadian rhythm is located in our gut

28:02

and it directs our gut as

28:04

to when to shoot out some of

28:06

those digestive juices, which give us

28:08

that very mild. It's just a very

28:11

mild kind of reminder like, yeah,

28:13

I'm ready for you if you're going

28:15

to send me some food right

28:17

now. The key difference is that it

28:19

goes away on its own. You

28:21

don't have to eat. It'll go

28:23

away in about five minutes. You know, if you

28:25

get busy, it'll go away faster. You could drink

28:27

something. If it doesn't go away, that might help

28:29

it go away. That's normal hunger. And how you

28:31

tell the difference is by doing that. If it

28:33

doesn't go away, then that's not normal hunger. And

28:35

it's probably pathologic hunger. And there's other symptoms that

28:37

go with a pathologic hunger. Irritability, that's

28:39

why we get hangry. Brain fog,

28:42

shakiness, weakness, sweating, nausea, some

28:44

people get, some people get

28:46

headaches, some people who have

28:48

migraines. When they fix their

28:50

metabolism, they stop

28:52

having migraines. It's like

28:54

such positive feedback that

28:56

happens. You know, normal hunger in

28:58

the context of a person who's well -fed, right?

29:01

If you're starving, then, you know, hunger doesn't

29:03

go away till you eat. But...

29:05

That's not our problem in this country.

29:07

I don't really think we need to

29:09

talk about that in any more detail.

29:11

I mean, if we were starving them,

29:13

yes, we would obsess about food. And

29:15

we would have these same kind of

29:17

intrusive thoughts of food that we do

29:19

now just because our metabolism and our

29:22

body fat isn't working right. And we

29:24

need to detox our body fat, get

29:26

rid of those seed oils, get the

29:28

seed oils out of our diet and

29:30

start eating the healthy foods that help

29:32

accelerate that detox process. This

29:35

is so part of our culture. I read a

29:37

book years and years ago called French People Don't

29:39

Get Fat or something along those lines, and it

29:41

was about how they don't snack. I mean, that

29:43

was it. They don't snack and even you talk

29:45

about how like the cortisol pulse and like you

29:47

should have your carbs more toward the end of

29:49

the day and you talk about the timing of

29:51

all that but I had a friend who their

29:53

family just went over to Europe and she said

29:55

all you can get in the morning is a

29:58

pastry like you can't get eggs you know but

30:00

but there is this big difference that you don't

30:02

snack and there's this whole cultural push toward it

30:04

and people will say something to you if you're

30:06

giving your kid a bag of crackers or something

30:08

so like I don't know maybe a decade ago

30:10

I was like we're gonna cut out the snacks

30:12

and I lasted like two

30:14

days. I mean, it is such

30:16

a part of culture with children, but

30:19

you say there's no such thing as

30:21

a healthy snack. A

30:23

tic -tac counts. So do

30:25

cough lozenges. Consuming anything with

30:27

calories outside of a predefined meal counts

30:29

as a snack, even if it has

30:31

zero calories. I want to talk about this

30:33

because I think this is a big

30:35

thing too. The diet foods and the

30:37

aspartame and the sucralose and the natural

30:39

flavorings, you wrote, if it tastes sweet. It

30:41

counts as a snack even if it

30:43

has no calories. Can you explain that? Yes,

30:46

if it tastes sweet, what

30:48

it's doing is that... Here's another

30:51

cool thing about the body,

30:53

factoid. When we taste something

30:55

sweet, it's because taste buds

30:57

on our tongue are sending a

30:59

signal to a certain area

31:01

of our brain that registers activity

31:03

as sweet flavor. We

31:05

have those exact same taste buds.

31:07

They look identical. They're in

31:09

our gut. They're not connected to

31:11

our flavor centers are not

31:13

connected to our brain, they're connected

31:15

to our pancreas, which makes

31:17

the pancreas release insulin, which lowers

31:19

our blood sugar. So if

31:22

you have something that tastes sweet,

31:24

but you don't have any

31:26

sugar coming with it, your pancreas

31:28

is still going to be

31:30

releasing some insulin. And that's going

31:32

to lower your blood sugar. And

31:34

within a few, you know, minutes

31:37

to maybe an hour, you're going

31:39

to start feeling really bad from

31:41

the lowering blood sugar, right? You

31:43

could get hungry. You could get

31:45

brain fog. You could get all

31:47

of those pathologic hunger symptoms, which

31:49

are identical to hypoglycemia. A lot

31:51

of people have heard the term

31:53

hypoglycemia. It means your blood sugar

31:55

is too low. Pathologic

31:57

hunger and hypoglycemia are the same

31:59

thing. The crazy thing is if

32:02

you want to a doctor and

32:04

said, you know, I have these

32:06

symptoms and he said, oh, it's

32:08

just your hypoglycemia. He would tell

32:10

you to snack or he or

32:12

she or a dietician. They would

32:14

tell you to snack. But that

32:16

just makes the problem worse, right?

32:18

It fixes the feeling, the bad

32:20

feeling. So we feel like it's

32:22

a good idea. But it literally

32:24

makes the problem worse because generally

32:26

the things that will alleviate those

32:29

symptoms will contain refined sugars which

32:31

have no nutrition in them and

32:33

often seed oils which are causing

32:35

the problem or rapidly just dramatically

32:37

accelerating the problem. Both the refined

32:39

sugars and carbohydrates and seed

32:41

oils contribute to insulin resistance,

32:44

but seed oils are more 80 % of

32:46

it than, you know, the refined sugars and

32:48

flower compared to the refined sugars and

32:50

flowers. I would say that's that's the breakdown.

32:52

Like they're both not good, but seed

32:54

oils are four times worse, if not more.

32:56

Well, because you had written that according

32:58

to statistics, our carbohydrate consumption is about the

33:00

same today as it was in 1900,

33:02

when our rates of obesity were about a

33:04

tenth of what they are now. So

33:06

it, you know, it's less the carbs. Obviously

33:08

the carbs are a thing, but like

33:10

this seed oil, that's the big change that

33:12

these vegetable oils are 80 % of the

33:14

fats that we consume. I think

33:16

this is a really big deal, Dr. Kate. Sweet

33:19

taste releases fat burn

33:21

blocking hormones. It's not

33:23

just sugar that makes your body release

33:25

insulin. It's anything with sweet taste. So

33:27

like all of these diet Coke one,

33:29

Coke zero, you have that at two

33:31

o 'clock in the afternoon. It's got

33:33

no calories. What a racket. Seriously,

33:36

absolutely. It's just going to make you

33:38

want another one in just a short

33:40

little while because your blood sugar is

33:42

dropping and you're going to feel like

33:44

you want energy, right? So even if

33:46

it's diet and has no calories, you're

33:48

going to seek caffeine maybe, right? You

33:51

know, you maybe don't know that it's

33:53

what you need is what's really going

33:55

on. But yes, to release insulin, not

33:57

only does it lower your blood sugar,

33:59

but it makes you build fat. I

34:01

mean, insulin is the fat building hormone.

34:04

So anything that makes you release

34:06

hormone takes you out of

34:08

burning any body fat you might

34:10

have been doing and puts

34:12

you into fat storage mode. Now,

34:14

if it's just a little

34:16

bit of insulin that lasts just

34:18

a little while, it's proportionate,

34:20

right? You know, so I'm

34:22

not saying that it's like a

34:24

little bit of insulin and man,

34:26

you're not going to burn fat

34:28

for a week. It's not like

34:30

that at all, but it's still

34:33

something that it has this effect

34:35

and that is not built into

34:37

medical advice, dietitian advice, doctor advice

34:39

about nutrition, health, treating hypoglycemia, treating

34:41

type 2 diabetes, treating even type

34:43

1 diabetes. I mean, it's just

34:45

it's not built into the system

34:47

and it needs to be. We

34:49

need to help people understand that

34:51

Anything with calories can make you

34:53

release insulin and therefore put you

34:55

into fat building mode. And if

34:57

you're trying to lose weight, that's

34:59

going to be obviously counterproductive. Yeah.

35:01

Right? That people aren't told this.

35:04

Yes. And even things without calories. That's

35:06

the crazy part. I mean, that is

35:08

so deceptive. It is so deceptive to

35:10

have things that say zero calories. And

35:13

I had no idea. I had no

35:15

idea that you're still going to release

35:17

insulin. It's because it

35:19

tastes sweet. And that's

35:21

tricks your body. I

35:23

mean, this is things everybody needs to know.

35:25

I mean, we're raising this next generation, and

35:28

you say like nine out of 10

35:30

have this pathological hunger. And so

35:32

there is a lot going on here. Don't

35:36

miss your chance to spring

35:38

into Deals at Lowe's. Right now,

35:40

get five select one -pine annuals

35:42

for just $5. Plus,

35:44

get a free 60 -volt Toro battery

35:46

when you purchase a select 60

35:49

-volt Toro electric mower. With

35:51

deals like these, your yard wins.

35:53

Shop in -store or online today.

35:56

Lowe's, we help. You save.

35:59

Valo through 430, while supplies last. Actual plant

36:01

size and selection varies by location. Excludes

36:03

Hawaii. This

36:07

episode is brought to you by

36:09

Amazon. Sometimes the most painful part

36:11

of getting sick is the getting

36:13

better part. Waiting on hold for

36:15

an appointment, sitting in crowded waiting

36:17

rooms, standing in line with the

36:19

pharmacy. That's painful. Amazon One Medical

36:21

and Amazon Pharmacy remove those painful

36:23

parts of getting better with things

36:25

like 24-7 virtual visits and prescriptions

36:27

delivered to your door. Thanks to

36:29

Amazon Pharmacy and Amazon One Medical,

36:31

healthcare just got less painful. McDonald's

36:34

meets the Minecraft universe with one

36:36

of six collectibles and your choice

36:38

of a Big Mac or ten-piece

36:40

McNuggets with spicy netherflame sauce. Now

36:42

available with a Minecraft movie meal.

36:44

I participate in McDonald's for a

36:46

limited time. A Minecraft movie only in

36:48

theaters. You write the goal is

36:50

is a different goal. It's not weight

36:52

loss. Weight loss will come. But

36:55

the goal is basically

36:57

to get rid of the

36:59

hypoglycemia symptoms. Yes,

37:01

that is the goal, so that

37:03

you can make it from breakfast

37:05

to lunch without getting hangry, so

37:07

that you don't feel the metabolic

37:09

drive to snack. I have

37:11

to warn you that if you always did

37:13

have a snack at, say, 10 .30 in

37:15

the morning, then you're going to get that

37:17

normal hunger, right? But that, if it truly

37:20

is just normal hunger, it should go

37:22

away, right? So just drink some water, get

37:24

up, walk around, call somebody

37:26

getting an argument. That'll distract you.

37:31

Call your doctor and say, hey, Dr.

37:34

Kate says, seat oils are bad, let's

37:36

talk. That'll be an

37:38

argument for sure. Call your dietician. Yeah.

37:42

Okay, so then here's a question. And I

37:44

know it's different for every single person. But

37:46

if someone is used to having a snack

37:48

at 10 o 'clock, or even for myself, we're

37:50

on the path of cutting these out and

37:52

not perfect. And I've noticed major changes in

37:54

my own self and health and all of

37:56

those types of things. But still,

37:59

If I didn't have the information and

38:01

I didn't really care, I

38:03

don't have a pizza anytime or whatever, is

38:06

it always there? It's probably

38:08

always there a little bit, that

38:10

like pull toward the unhealthier

38:12

things. The bad stuff? Yeah. Well,

38:14

I can't speak for everyone,

38:16

but I certainly can speak for

38:18

myself and people who have

38:20

reported these sort of transformations to

38:22

me. I myself had a

38:24

terrible sweet tooth and I just

38:26

thought I was born that way I

38:28

mean I would steal my little

38:31

brothers and sisters Halloween candy I would

38:33

sneak off to the candy store

38:35

which was two miles away but it

38:37

was definitely worth it I would

38:39

sneak into the kitchen and eat that,

38:41

you know, 11th bag of chocolate

38:43

chips, the entire thing, because my mom

38:45

probably wasn't counting. She didn't do

38:47

an inventory. So, you

38:49

know, I was that way.

38:52

And I had a roommate when

38:54

I was in college, who

38:56

was this skinny, Filipino,

38:59

beautiful woman. And

39:01

she was like, I don't have

39:03

a sweet tooth. I would rather have

39:06

a steak than a Hershey's bar. And I

39:08

thought, you are a freak woman. And,

39:10

you know, like I was like, I'll never

39:12

be like that. Right. I wasn't even

39:14

jealous because I love sugar so much. I

39:16

didn't even bother being jealous. But now

39:18

we have a pie. We have a stack.

39:21

My husband is like a slight bit of a

39:23

hoarder of some things on sale. He's going to

39:26

get way too much of it. So we have

39:28

these four or five year old chocolate bars that

39:30

are only there because my sweet tooth is gone. And

39:33

I have had many, many patients

39:35

report the exact same kind of

39:37

experience that they can control themselves

39:39

in ways they never thought possible.

39:41

And it takes a while.

39:43

Like it's not going to happen

39:45

to everyone, you know, right off

39:48

the bat. It didn't happen to

39:50

me until like I still, I

39:52

still couldn't control myself around this

39:54

stuff. for about two years. But,

39:57

you know, I was maybe more hopeless

39:59

case than other people. I know everyone's different.

40:01

Other people have said that they

40:03

stopped craving it, you know, after

40:05

just six months. But I mean,

40:07

whatever, whenever it happens, it's a

40:09

ball and chain that you don't

40:12

carry around anymore. And it will

40:14

go away. I promise you. Let

40:16

me give you just one little tip

40:18

to making sure that it goes away. Here's

40:20

a little bio hack for you and

40:22

your audience. Anticipate what

40:24

you're going to make. If you have a

40:26

plan for dinner, start anticipating it, right?

40:28

It doesn't work if you don't have a

40:30

plan. So meal planning is integral to

40:32

long -term success. But if you know, like

40:34

today, I'm going to make this scrambled egg

40:36

thing that I love that tastes like

40:38

macaroni and cheese. It's like eggs, a tiny

40:40

bit of flour and cheddar cheese and

40:42

milk. I don't know how it works, but

40:44

it tastes like macaroni and cheese to

40:46

me. And I love it, right? So I

40:48

start thinking about it hours before I

40:50

eat it. And yes, that makes it just

40:52

taste so much better. Like the experience

40:54

of eating it is just so much more

40:56

enjoyable. Instead of what in

40:58

the past was, I would have looked forward

41:00

to the dessert, right? The after dinner, the

41:02

thing that did have the sweet and the

41:04

meal was just something to chew your way

41:07

through on the way to the real reason

41:09

for living, which was dessert. What

41:11

a hope though that it can change

41:13

in two years. That makes sense because you

41:15

had that sweet tooth starting as a

41:18

child and I would say I've got same

41:20

thing decades. I mean, in third grade,

41:22

I remember having an issue with missing one

41:24

snack. So this has been going on

41:26

for a long time. So it would make

41:28

sense that it would possibly for some

41:30

people take a while to make those changes.

41:32

But then what happens is then you

41:34

start using ketones, which is a whole different

41:36

topic, but that ketones are really good

41:38

brain fuel. You know, you talk

41:40

about like this can affect your life in

41:42

a lot of different ways. It's your energy.

41:44

It's what you can bring to the table

41:46

in terms of your work or your you

41:48

know, the meaning of your life. So it's

41:50

not just about the weight, it's about so

41:52

many other things. And then as far as

41:54

our, the way our bodies look, you wrote,

41:56

the ability to build and maintain a lean

41:58

and healthy physique is a fundamental body function,

42:00

like breathing and having a pulse. Our

42:03

body composition is, this is

42:05

so wild, Dr. Kate. Our

42:07

body composition is not supposed

42:09

to be something we have to

42:12

stress about. I mean, this is

42:14

like a trillion dollar industry, isn't it?

42:16

About our body composition. Yes. And you say

42:18

it's not supposed to be something, it's

42:20

supposed to be automatic. And

42:22

it was. I mean, if you

42:24

look at old film footage

42:26

of just like people walking about

42:28

town in places like Baltimore

42:30

or New York City in the

42:32

60s and 70s, you'll see

42:34

people who look like athletes. strutting

42:36

about in their perfect physique,

42:38

their perfect body proportions. They look

42:40

like extras on a movie

42:42

set about athletes or something. That

42:44

was normal. That was the

42:46

standard. And back in the 50s

42:48

and 60s and 70s, we

42:50

had a fraction of the vegetable

42:52

oil in the food supply

42:54

that we do today. And so

42:56

our obesity epidemic parallels the

42:58

rise of the consumption of vegetables.

43:00

which I call the hateful

43:03

eight now, right? And when I

43:05

wrote that book, I didn't

43:07

have that term. And so it's

43:09

not olive oil. It's not

43:11

coconut oil or avocado oil. It's

43:13

the list of the bad

43:15

eight oils that I've identified as

43:17

the ones that contain toxins

43:19

because of their chemistry and the

43:21

way they're refined. And just

43:23

to list those, I probably have them in the show notes, but

43:25

just in case you're listening, curious, you don't want to scroll. It's

43:28

corn, canola. cotton seed,

43:30

soy, sunflower, safflower, rice bran,

43:32

and grape seed. Everything

43:34

else is not toxic. Those

43:36

are the worst of

43:38

the worst. And like

43:40

the rise in this metabolic

43:42

disorder and just all this

43:44

obesity and type 2 diabetes,

43:46

the whole spectrum, insulin resistance.

43:49

being hangry, and then

43:51

the epidemics of related

43:53

diseases, you know, cancer is

43:55

increasing, cancer in young people

43:58

is increasing, heart attacks in young

44:00

people is increasing, early onset

44:02

dementias are increasing, the

44:04

visual problems and blindness associated

44:06

with diabetes are also increasing

44:08

because all of these disorders

44:10

are increasing due to the

44:12

same root cause and the

44:15

vegetable oils are driving 80 %

44:17

of it. Wow. When

44:19

your metabolism is healthy, you can partake in

44:21

normal social celebrations while maintaining your normal weight.

44:24

This is how our body is supposed to

44:26

function. So you're gonna learn all sorts of

44:28

things in this book about metabolism. It's not

44:30

about fast. It's about flexible. There's

44:32

no such thing as a fast metabolism. I

44:34

mean, these are all the things I

44:36

didn't know. I didn't know and I read

44:38

dark calories. So I'm so glad I

44:40

read this next one. Does exercise speed my

44:43

metabolism? You're like metabolism does not have

44:45

speeds. Your metabolism performs the tasks you ask

44:47

of it. Fast metabolisms are a myth.

44:49

You want it to be flexible. And

44:51

then you wrote like you, to me,

44:53

this is motivating. Unusual fats

44:56

damage your metabolism. the fatty acid

44:58

composition of your body fat changes.

45:00

When a person's diet is composed

45:02

of extraordinary amounts of unusual fats,

45:04

then your body will be composed

45:06

of extraordinary amounts of the same

45:09

unusual fats. So I'm like, I

45:11

don't really want that. I think

45:13

that that's really, really motivating. I

45:15

mean, this is a life changing book. Your

45:18

books are so life changing. They make sense.

45:20

And also they work. And I feel like

45:22

it's really important if you're working with children

45:24

to be aware of these types of things,

45:26

too, for their lifelong habits. I

45:28

want to talk about one other thing that's completely

45:30

sort of, I mean, it's not separate because it's

45:32

in the book, but I'd never heard of this.

45:35

Everyone's talking about sleep. Sleep. You got

45:37

to sleep. Prioritize your sleep. But

45:39

you wrote about how sometimes people

45:41

have to sleep more than eight hours,

45:43

different lengths of sleeping, and

45:46

people tend to be like, oh, that person's

45:48

lazy. And you wrote

45:50

about how sometimes when we're sleeping,

45:52

we're fighting viruses. Yes.

45:55

Yeah, there's so much that medical

45:57

science has not been investigating

45:59

because we've been focused on developing

46:01

drugs and to treat all

46:03

these diseases that are caused by

46:06

The wave of seed oils that has

46:08

taken over our food supply that doctors

46:10

don't learn anything about. They don't learn

46:12

anything true about them anyway. They

46:14

learn very little about even what they

46:16

are. They don't identify even what is

46:18

a seed oil. They don't know about

46:20

the Haplate. And so there's viruses that

46:22

live in our bodies forever, like the

46:24

chicken pox virus, the Epstein bar virus,

46:26

of course, then the other herpes type

46:28

one and type two, the embarrassing viruses,

46:30

I like to call them, Parvo virus,

46:32

which something like 70 % of people

46:34

have and we get it from pets. These

46:37

viruses can live. they can

46:39

all like hide dormant in

46:41

our body either in our

46:43

bone marrow or our lymph

46:45

system or our nervous system

46:47

and perhaps other tissues and

46:49

they are living there forever

46:51

and so it's like our

46:53

bodies are constantly fighting them

46:55

off and if we you

46:57

know some of us have

46:59

immune systems that are just

47:01

less able to fully eradicate

47:03

them than other people and

47:05

a large portion of people

47:07

cannot fully eradicate Parvo virus,

47:09

but if you are getting

47:11

enough sleep or if you

47:13

don't abuse your body or

47:15

abuse your emotional state, which

47:17

I certainly did, you

47:19

can fight them off. I talk about

47:22

this because this is the reason I

47:24

got into this in the first place.

47:26

Because I was attacked by some of

47:28

these viruses because I was living in

47:30

a terrifically stressful situation. I was going

47:32

through medical school and I was in

47:34

a terrible, terrible relationship with somebody that

47:36

I didn't even know was a terrible

47:38

relationship. I thought I was the problem. what

47:41

the worst relationships do to you. And

47:43

so I wasn't sleeping on

47:45

my days off, and I

47:47

was up all night every

47:49

second or third night. And

47:51

so the viruses that would

47:54

have just caused mild infections

47:56

took deep roots in parts of my

47:58

body that they didn't belong. And

48:00

so that is why I couldn't walk for

48:03

a few years, you know, during the time

48:05

where I had this complete revolution of my

48:07

understanding of what a healthy diet looks like

48:09

and how the, you know, all of this

48:11

stuff that I've learned since then is owed

48:13

to viruses, I guess, which as long as

48:15

they don't kill me, I guess I might

48:17

be grateful for it one day. I

48:20

thought it was important to read about because,

48:22

you know, everyone's saying, don't let your kid

48:24

have their cell phone in their room. And

48:26

people are just not sleeping. They're up at

48:28

night. They're on their phones. And you wrote,

48:30

some of us have been unlucky enough. I

48:32

mean, I had mono. These are

48:34

keeping our immune system busy at night. There was

48:36

one called Cytomegalovirus

48:39

or something like that. That's like, they

48:41

want a name. That's not the best

48:43

name of all of them. Cytomegalovirus.

48:46

Who came up with

48:48

that one? That's great. Good

48:50

branding as part of the scary virus.

48:52

Yeah. If you're sleeping, if you need

48:54

sleep, it might be because of that.

48:56

The salt thing I thought was really

48:58

eye -opening. Salt reduces hunger.

49:00

Salt makes health food taste better.

49:02

Use at least three times as

49:04

much as you should. This is

49:06

a similar thing to the eggs. Yes.

49:08

You know, it's like low salt,

49:10

low salt. Don't have salt. Monitor

49:13

your salt. And you wrote, there's

49:15

almost no chance you'll get too

49:17

much salt in your diet. It improves

49:19

your energy, your bone health, your

49:21

learning, your concentration, your digestion. It

49:23

helps reverse insulin resistance and diabetes.

49:25

Yes. This is incredible. Yes, it's

49:27

a nutrient. I mean, again,

49:29

medical science has taken

49:31

to the attitude that

49:34

some things that in

49:36

previous generations doctors knew

49:38

were nutrients that, oh,

49:40

those are the problems. Those are

49:43

the reason that we're getting sick, right?

49:46

Salt has even been blamed for

49:48

cancer. It's been blamed for obesity.

49:50

Salt doesn't even have any calories. It's

49:53

just like when you

49:55

start examining some of

49:57

these tenets of modern

49:59

nutrition science, when

50:02

you start examining the principles that people

50:04

are taught as if they're gospel

50:06

truth, just on their surface

50:08

they don't even make sense when

50:10

you just like comment on that

50:12

common sense level but nobody does

50:14

that because we are so acculturated

50:16

to salt is bad like we've

50:18

all grown up hearing that and

50:20

you know this is where we

50:22

have to invoke like people who've

50:24

spoken the truth in the past,

50:26

like the evil man, Mussolini, who

50:28

wanted to convince people that lies

50:30

were true. He said, a lie

50:32

repeated often enough becomes the truth.

50:34

That is the world we are

50:36

living in, in nutrition science, so -called

50:38

nutrition science. And I want to

50:40

say something, you know, here because

50:42

of what's going on politically right

50:44

now, you know, with RFK,

50:46

who has this, you know, belief

50:48

that sea dolls are bad, which,

50:50

you know, You're welcome. I

50:54

haven't thanked me, but I hope

50:56

that they will someday realize that I

50:58

can help them. And

51:00

he has this mandate, but

51:02

he doesn't know where to start.

51:05

That's why I think I can help

51:07

them. But he's being attacked because

51:09

nutrition science is this farce. And people

51:11

believe that what he's saying is

51:13

wrong. And he's saying seed oils are

51:15

toxic. And he's saying

51:18

that we are putting too

51:20

much money investigating things that

51:22

are not true. And

51:24

he hasn't gone into detail on the

51:26

nutrition part of it. He

51:29

should, and if he doesn't know how, then

51:31

they should reach out to me. And I've made

51:33

myself available to them. Honestly, I've told them. And

51:36

so if I sound a little bit, like, flummoxed,

51:38

I guess I am. Because

51:40

I really do want to help, and I really can.

51:43

And it's a shame, though, that

51:45

Robert F. Kennedy is being attacked and

51:47

being called, like, incompetent

51:49

when Sure, maybe it doesn't make a

51:51

lot of sense for a lawyer to

51:53

be running the health, the human health

51:56

services, an environmental lawyer. But if you

51:58

look at it from his perspective, he

52:00

believes the environment is what's poisoning

52:02

us, right? He believes that there's a

52:04

lot of toxins out there and he

52:06

understands at least enough about CEDAOS to

52:08

know that they are toxic. So that

52:10

is kind of in his wheelhouse a

52:13

little bit if you think about

52:15

it that way. And so if you're

52:17

one of these folks who has been,

52:19

you know, There's such divided

52:21

camps. He's such a divisive person right

52:23

now, unfortunately. If you've heard

52:25

that, you know, bad things about

52:27

him and he doesn't know, just please

52:30

consider that you're hearing this from

52:32

people who don't understand nutrition science, but

52:34

think that they do. And,

52:36

you know, these are the people

52:38

who are running, who were running the

52:40

HHS. And these are the

52:42

people who are unhappy with the

52:44

way he's running it and cutting their

52:46

funding. Just consider that this is

52:49

some of the fallout of that lie

52:51

that we were all fed about

52:53

seed oils being heart healthy and cholesterol

52:55

being unhealthy. That's part of the

52:57

fallout is now this political division where

52:59

a man who I believe at

53:01

least for now I believe that he

53:03

really intends to do good but

53:05

he's being accused by the establishment of

53:08

being completely incompetent. So

53:10

that's part of the whole story

53:12

that we've been talking about here. Because

53:14

vegetable oils are central to big

53:16

food profitability and these oils are possibly

53:19

the defining feature of processed foods.

53:21

That's where we started. And they would

53:23

collapse overnight if they didn't have

53:25

the oils and the sugars. You dedicated

53:27

this book, The Fat Burn Fix,

53:29

to open minds and gentle hearts. You

53:32

wrote, there is a war being raged

53:34

over our food choices. And so you give

53:36

all of these answers and they're not. Difficult.

53:39

They're not difficult. It's like you have

53:41

to walk 22 miles a day and, you

53:43

know, you can't eat and you, I

53:45

mean, they're not. And I just, I find

53:47

so much hope in what you've written

53:49

and my own personal experience is that it

53:51

is making changes for me. Now it's

53:53

going to take me, I think a while,

53:55

because I think I've had issues for

53:57

a very long time, but I do totally

53:59

notice it. And I'm so, so thankful,

54:01

Dr. Kate, for you coming on and spending

54:04

this time with us. People can connect

54:06

with you on your newsletter. Can you tell

54:08

them how to do that? Please visit

54:10

my website, which is drkate.com, d -r -c -a -t

54:12

-e.com. And towards the top you'll

54:14

see subscribe to my newsletter. You'll get

54:16

a bunch of... helpful free resources, PDFs to

54:18

download when you do that. And I

54:20

don't bombard you. You get a few emails,

54:22

you know, to kind of let you

54:24

know about like what books are about and

54:27

stuff like that. And

54:29

then it's like a monthly newsletter, if

54:31

that I'm sort of behind on

54:33

my monthly newsletter. So if you signed

54:35

up, I apologize. I have actually

54:37

been involved in a very exciting project,

54:41

Jeannie, that when you asked me earlier,

54:43

what else am I doing? I

54:45

for some reason to completely skip my

54:47

mind. We're going to

54:49

be doing a documentary on

54:51

getting people off seed oils.

54:54

So if anybody listening wants to

54:56

be a participant in the

54:58

documentary, or depending on when this

55:00

is released, the documentary may

55:03

already have been out. For

55:05

inspiration, you can

55:07

also go to my website and find

55:09

out where to go to get the

55:12

supportive there's an application that

55:14

we're an app that we're also

55:16

developing and a community that

55:18

I'm developing that will support you

55:20

in your journey. But

55:23

yeah, so depending when this comes

55:25

out, please reach out to me for

55:27

if it comes out before probably

55:29

has to be. Well, no,

55:31

actually, the documentary is not even not going to start. Yeah. There's

55:35

I'll get it out whenever we're getting a mixed

55:37

up. So the documentary is going to

55:39

be, yeah, going to be starting. We're not

55:41

even deciding when it's going to be starting. So

55:43

that's why I'm mixed up. We don't have

55:45

an answer yet. But yeah, so I will let

55:47

you know, Ginny, and so that you can

55:49

kind of put an update on that if you

55:51

would like to do that, to get your

55:53

listeners to be documented. I mean, I think it

55:56

would be fantastic to watch a transformation over

55:58

probably a 30 -day time period, maybe a little

56:00

longer. Wow. Okay. So that's why you

56:02

have to sign up for the newsletter so that you

56:04

know what's going on because you also have a

56:06

course. You have Rebel. Well, you track your biomarkers. So

56:08

a lot of different ways that people can connect

56:10

with you. And this is information that you're not really

56:12

getting in the mainstream and in fact might be

56:14

shot down in the mainstream so you might be confused.

56:17

And you want to read the book. You got

56:19

to read the book for the sake of your kids.

56:21

Even I was talking to our kids, they're really

56:23

into the protein powder. I was like, there's

56:25

information on the protein powder in here. You've got to

56:27

be careful with that kind of stuff. And you just

56:29

have a plan. There's recipes. It

56:31

is just another wonderful, life -changing

56:33

book. The Fat Burn Fix.

56:35

Boost your energy and hunger

56:37

and lose weight by using

56:39

body fat for fuel. Dr.

56:42

Kate Shanahan, thank you so, so much

56:44

for coming back. Thank you

56:46

so much, Ginny. I just always loved talking

56:48

to you. I was always, it's been

56:50

twice, but it's just been amazing to speak

56:52

with you. I love your energy. You

56:54

are so good. I just, I cannot say,

56:56

like you asked, you had the great segues,

56:59

you pick out like, you pick out quotes

57:01

in the book that I don't remember writing.

57:03

I'm like, did I say that? Like, am

57:05

I that smart? That's a

57:07

really good quote. Thank you.

57:10

This is what's going to change the

57:12

world. This is changing the world with

57:14

the diabetes epidemic, I mean, in these

57:16

kids. So thank you. Thank you for

57:18

all that you're doing. You just put

57:20

me in a good mood. Thank you. Thank you.

57:22

Thank you. And I'm on to the next

57:24

one. I'm going to read deep nutrition next. I

57:26

mean, you have so many. So this is

57:28

great. And people should read all of them. And

57:30

what an honor. I already said thank you

57:32

by saying thank you again. Thank you, Dr. Kate.

57:37

My pleasure. Are

57:41

you looking for your new favorite podcast

57:43

that's both entertaining and will challenge you

57:46

on your walk with Jesus? Hey,

57:48

we're Mackie Kenz from the For The Girl podcast.

57:50

Every Tuesday, we break down everything that

57:53

we wish someone had told us

57:55

in our 20s. From faith in relationships

57:57

to wild career transitions, we're getting

57:59

real about all of our mess ups

58:01

and the things God has taught

58:03

us along the way. Think of us

58:05

as your hilarious weekly dose of

58:07

honest conversation with your internet besties who've

58:09

been exactly where you currently are. So

58:12

come check out For The Girl on

58:14

Apple Spotify or wherever you love to listen

58:16

to podcasts. and make sure to click

58:19

follow on our show so that each new

58:21

episode is dropped right into your personal

58:23

feed. Are

58:29

you hungry for guidance

58:31

about mindset, relationships, health,

58:33

finances, career decisions, and

58:36

dealing with your past? I'm Trey

58:38

Tucker, licensed therapist and speaker and host

58:40

of Rugged, a podcast where I

58:42

help young men and women navigate life's

58:44

challenges. and find solutions to help

58:46

them live lives of service and meaning.

58:49

In this podcast, you'll learn mindset strategies

58:51

to harness your thoughts and emotions in

58:53

ways that help you achieve your goals. I

58:56

bring a blend of straight talk and empathy,

58:58

and I'm open to addressing any topic and

59:00

treating it and the people connected to

59:02

it with respect and curiosity. Come

59:05

join us. We have a space for you.

59:07

Search for Rugged with Trey Tucker wherever you

59:09

listen to podcasts and make sure to hit

59:11

the follow button so new weekly episodes will

59:13

be delivered straight to your personal podcast feed.

59:15

My hope is that this podcast will leave

59:18

you feeling encouraged and empowered to take charge

59:20

of your life and close the gap between

59:22

who you are and who you want to be.