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.agilebrandguide.com Welcome

0:54

to Season 7 of the Agile Brand, where

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need to know. Stay curious,

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us a rating so others can find us as

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well. And now on to the show. We

1:53

talk a lot about agility on this show

1:55

and mostly involved in business, of course But

1:57

today we're going to do that But my

1:59

guest is someone that has some answers

2:02

about how we can be more agile

2:04

in our worlds that come from unexpected

2:06

places like the set of Seinfeld where

2:08

for those super fans like myself out

2:10

there He played Alec Berg which should

2:12

be said in more of a John

2:14

Hausman manner Some of you will get that some

2:17

of you will not And while guest

2:19

starring there, he took some lessons from

2:21

the value of collaboration and how great

2:23

ideas can come from anyone and anywhere.

2:26

Joining me today is Mark DeCarlo, an

2:28

Emmy Award -winning comedian, TV

2:30

host, and speaker who brings

2:32

a fresh and entertaining perspective

2:34

on navigating change, AI,

2:36

and work -life balance. He's

2:38

developed five simple strategies to help

2:40

people embrace chaos, overcome fear of

2:43

AI, and actually be happier while

2:45

working smarter. Mark, welcome to the

2:47

show. Good to be here, Greg. Thanks

2:49

for having me on. Yeah, absolutely. Looking

2:51

forward to talking about this. Before we

2:53

dive in, though, why don't you give

2:55

us a little more about your background

2:57

and what kind of led up to

2:59

developing the five strategies? Well,

3:02

I started, grew up in

3:04

Chicago. My best friend's

3:06

older siblings were on stage at

3:08

Second City, so we would sneak

3:10

in at the age of, I don't

3:12

know, 14. and watch

3:14

the show. And when I realized that

3:17

you could get paid for going on

3:19

stage and improvising for an hour a half

3:21

every night, that was pretty

3:23

much it for me. So I started doing comedy.

3:25

I came to UCLA, did

3:27

more comedy there. I won

3:30

a bunch of money on a game show, so I didn't

3:32

have to get a job right away. And it allowed me

3:34

to focus on show business. And I

3:36

just started doing commercials, hosted

3:38

some shows for Fox and

3:41

FX and Hallmark. Did

3:43

a real fun series on the travel channel

3:45

called Taste of America where I got to

3:47

go to 500 different cities

3:50

and meet mom and pops

3:52

and business entrepreneurs, small business

3:54

entrepreneurs. And I've

3:56

also had a career as a cartoon voice.

3:59

I'm Hugh Neutron on Jimmy Neutron.

4:01

I've been on Family Guy

4:03

and drug grab a bunch of

4:06

different cartoons and I enjoy.

4:09

Comedy and I like

4:11

your podcast because agility is

4:14

basically a business term for

4:16

improvisation Yeah, right everyone in business

4:18

is trying to Get an advantage or move

4:20

their product forward or move their ideas forward

4:23

and sometimes you can't go in the door

4:25

You got to go in through the window

4:27

or you got to dig a hole and

4:29

come up through the basement and the philosophy

4:32

of improvisation is

4:34

a win -win for everybody involved so

4:36

I think That's really my

4:38

only skill. It's

4:41

a pretty good skill. Well,

4:44

it does generalize to a

4:46

lot of other things outside

4:48

of show business, business specifically.

4:51

But if I

4:53

was one of the seven people on

4:55

Gilligan's Island, I would not be as utilitarian

4:58

as the professor. or

5:00

as stupid as Gilgan, I'd be in the middle

5:02

somewhere. That's a good place to be, right? Yeah,

5:04

right. Well, to me, sorry

5:07

to typecast you. You will always be

5:09

Alec Berg from Seinfeld. So it's a

5:11

huge fan of that show. But yeah,

5:14

definitely, you've done a lot of great

5:16

work. And it's interesting to see how

5:18

you have parlayed that into the business

5:21

world as well. Let me tell you

5:23

something about that week on Seinfeld. I

5:25

mean, I've been on a lot of

5:27

different sitcoms. television shows. And when

5:30

you're a guest star, typically

5:32

you kind of go in, you keep your

5:34

head down, you learn your lines, you do

5:36

them, you know, maybe

5:38

the regular cast sidles up

5:41

to you and says, hi, blah,

5:43

blah, blah. But you're definitely lower

5:45

on the totem pole than the stars of

5:47

the show. Not so

5:49

on Seinfeld. They welcomed me immediately.

5:52

And instead of going back to my trailer

5:54

between my scenes, I was only in, I

5:56

don't know, three or four scenes. I

5:58

sat on set and I watched their process

6:00

for the entire week. And unlike any other show

6:02

I've ever been on, except for

6:05

maybe Curb, when the stars

6:07

weren't in a scene, they

6:09

were sitting offstage during rehearsal

6:11

and coaching, saying, wait,

6:14

well, you know what? You shouldn't have that line.

6:16

Give that line to Julia. Give

6:18

the ball to him. And they

6:21

were all very focused on

6:23

the group endeavor that

6:25

they were engaged in. As

6:28

opposed to a lot of shows,

6:30

like if I'm not in the scene, I'm

6:32

in my trailer on my phone doing

6:34

stuff. And I think the proof

6:36

is in the pudding. You know,

6:39

the show was spectacular for its

6:41

entire run. It was smart. It was clever.

6:43

The acting was great. The writing

6:45

was great. Jerry and Larry were

6:47

the first guys there every day, the

6:49

last guys to leave every night. They

6:51

worked really hard, which is why the

6:53

show is still good, you

6:56

know, 30 years after it premiered.

6:58

When I was in school at UCLA, I

7:01

got the chance to meet Carl Reiner,

7:03

one of my comedy, clearly one of

7:05

the comedy gods of the 20th century. A

7:07

personal hero, a friend of mine had written

7:09

a Dick Van Dyke show book. And

7:12

I was at the launch party. And the

7:14

entire cast was there. And as the party

7:16

was winding down, Carl was still there. So

7:18

I screwed up the nerve to go talk

7:20

to him. And I said, you know, I'm

7:22

an aspiring writer. How did

7:24

you come up with this dick van

7:27

doe dick van dyke show idea and

7:29

he said I'd sat because he had

7:31

written on my show of shows the

7:33

Sid Caesar show for years, which was

7:36

a Live Saturday night live -ish type

7:38

of show sketch comedy music and it

7:40

was the top show at the time when that

7:42

show ended he said he went sat at home

7:44

and said all right What what do I

7:46

know that nobody else knows about? And

7:49

he was like, I have writing on a

7:51

comedy show. So he wrote what he knew

7:53

and he wrote 13 complete episodes before he

7:55

showed it to CBS, which is unheard of.

7:58

And maintain the quality of

8:00

that show for six seasons. There's

8:03

no slang in it. There's no

8:05

numbers, like $5 for

8:07

nothing like that. So the

8:09

show, in my opinion, is

8:11

still hilariously funny 60 years later.

8:14

And that kind of

8:16

attention to... I

8:19

think is not only important in entertainment,

8:21

but it's important in business and I

8:24

think that's where the energy that

8:26

fuels agility comes from

8:28

just Paying attention

8:30

and knowing what's important and what

8:33

isn't important. Yeah in whatever

8:35

your endeavor is, you know Yeah, yeah,

8:37

I love that and yeah, I had not

8:39

heard that about the the Seinfeld process but

8:41

again to your point Makes

8:43

a lot of sense when you when you

8:45

see it and you know, I certainly think

8:48

it's it's it's timeless as well So let's

8:50

let's talk about you know, let's let's parlay

8:52

this a little bit into into business and

8:54

stuff So, you know, you've been able to

8:57

take comedy and and just that that

8:59

agility from improv and things and

9:02

apply it to business settings. And one

9:04

of the things I want to touch

9:06

on at least is developing the five

9:09

strategies that you've developed. Do you want

9:11

to talk a little bit about that

9:13

process? Yeah, I

9:16

think wellness is a

9:18

big buzzword now in

9:20

business because businesses are

9:23

finally understanding that if

9:25

employees are miserable or

9:27

not feeling taken care

9:29

of, the production suffers,

9:31

the output suffers, the quality of

9:34

the work suffers, whereas

9:36

people that feel valued

9:38

and feel included in

9:40

whatever process is going on

9:43

produce better work. I

9:45

don't know where you live, I live in California, and

9:48

I go to Costco all the time. I'll

9:51

give you a million dollars if you can find

9:53

me a Costco employee who doesn't love their job.

9:56

Everybody that works at Costco

9:58

loves their job. People at

10:01

Trader Joe's love their job. Why?

10:05

What is it about the work?

10:07

I would propose it has less

10:09

to do with the work than

10:12

how the employees are made to feel that

10:14

they're an integral part of the machine that

10:16

serves the customer and they're listened to. And

10:18

when they have an idea, they can talk

10:21

to the boss. They don't have to

10:23

drop it in a box where it dies. And

10:25

that kind of investment from

10:29

the C -suite on down

10:31

empowers people. And

10:33

what I learned at Second City, we

10:35

would do a show, like

10:38

a half scripted, half improv show. And then the

10:40

third act would be, okay, we're going to take

10:42

a 10 minute break. Before we do, we're going

10:44

to take a bunch of suggestions. Then we're going

10:46

to come out in 10 minutes and we're going

10:48

to do another 30 minutes of comedy based on

10:50

your suggestions. So we would get those suggestions. We'd

10:53

go backstage and there'd be six

10:55

or seven of us sitting around a table and we

10:57

would have to take all

10:59

that information and figure out ways to

11:01

turn it into scenes. And

11:03

that process requires

11:06

a lot of communal

11:08

thinking and working and not

11:11

crapping on other people. Can

11:13

I say shitting on this podcast or is this a

11:15

-? You just did, so yeah, yeah. Okay, I think

11:18

you can, yeah. You know, if

11:20

you know anything about improv, the rule one

11:22

is yes and. If someone says something stupid,

11:24

you don't say no, you say, well, we

11:27

could do part of that, and what if we

11:29

added this to it? And what

11:31

that does is, first of all,

11:34

it opens a corridor of information flow from

11:36

the lowest person on the totem pole to

11:38

the top. You know, sometimes

11:40

the guys in the loading dock

11:43

will have an idea that the C -suite

11:45

would never conceive of because they're not doing

11:47

the work. You know, they're not,

11:49

yeah, we're wasting all these packing peanuts when we

11:51

could do this instead and we'd save X amount

11:53

of money. And oftentimes

11:56

people lower on the totem

11:58

pole are frightened to speak

12:00

up because they're going to be

12:02

laughed at or marginalized or made

12:04

fun of or just ignored. And

12:07

when, you know, when you raise your hand four

12:09

or five times with what you think is a

12:11

great idea and people basically say, you know what,

12:13

sit down, the grownups are talking, all

12:15

right, I'm going to stop volunteering my information.

12:18

And at some point you

12:20

may lose out on a great idea I had

12:22

because I was afraid. So. These

12:24

five simple strategies, I've

12:28

kind of pieced together from

12:30

my time in entertainment, but

12:32

they generalize to business, right?

12:35

The first thing is empower

12:38

people and encourage creativity

12:40

and communication is

12:43

the key to everything, right?

12:46

You need to have a system

12:48

where information can flow both ways

12:50

and make people feel I

12:53

mean, it's so simple. You make

12:55

people feel important. Right. And

12:57

you know what? If they're not important, they shouldn't be working

12:59

for you. Right, right. Yeah, why

13:01

are you hiring people and asking them

13:03

for things, but yet not listening to

13:05

them? I mean, to your point, it's

13:07

maybe once or twice you can get

13:10

away with that as a leader, but

13:12

yeah, people start shutting up. And I

13:14

think to some leaders, maybe that

13:16

at first that feels good of

13:18

like, oh, okay, now I can

13:20

just like get my way or

13:22

whatever. But like, that's not a

13:24

sustainable way of doing that. Like pretty

13:26

soon, like a leader only knows what they

13:28

know, right? So like pretty soon, the ideas

13:30

run out, and then who you're going to

13:33

turn to, you turn to a bunch of

13:35

people that have been told to be quiet,

13:37

right? Right. Yeah. And this, and going back

13:39

to the Seinfeld analogy, you

13:41

had Larry and Jerry

13:44

were absolutely the unquestioned

13:46

Top of the food chain there. They did

13:48

all the writing. They did all the

13:51

conceptualizing but they empowered their cast

13:53

The craft service people

13:55

literally everybody on that set

13:58

in the week that I was

14:00

there Felt free to speak up with

14:02

an idea about what was happening on

14:04

the set and they were listened to

14:06

and and What is the guy that

14:08

makes pancakes know about comedy? Well, you

14:10

know what? He's been watching your show

14:12

for four years. Yeah, and he knows

14:14

that you know what? George would never

14:16

say that. Kramer would say it, but

14:18

George wouldn't say it. Just

14:20

my opinion, Larry, you do it with

14:23

what you want. And

14:25

it fosters a collegial, we're

14:27

all in this together mentality,

14:29

and it's better for the

14:31

people at the top. I

14:33

wrote and produced an animated

14:35

reboot of Pinocchio that's coming

14:37

out later this summer. And

14:41

in animation, now the

14:43

current the way people

14:45

produce it is they'll write the script and

14:47

then they'll get one person in the booth

14:49

and that person will read with the director.

14:52

In my opinion, that's crazy. What we

14:54

did is we had the whole cast

14:56

together in the studio at the same

14:58

time reading the scenes together. So we

15:00

would read it once as written that

15:02

I wrote, right? And then the next

15:04

pass, I was like, all right, this

15:06

is a crazy pass. Do

15:08

whatever you want. So I

15:10

had some of the funniest people

15:12

in cartoons improvising and adding material

15:14

based on how they've developed the

15:17

character in their mind and Some

15:19

of it was better. I mean

15:21

we used 25 % of the

15:23

movie was stuff that was improvised

15:25

in the room that was hilarious

15:27

that wasn't on the page and

15:29

there are You know some writers

15:31

or producers who are like, hey,

15:33

I didn't write it. I don't

15:36

want to hear it You're paying

15:38

those people for the day. Squeeze

15:40

everything you can out of them.

15:42

And if you're picking the right

15:44

people, people with talent, you're

15:46

an idiot if you don't use it.

15:48

Because like you said, leaders only know

15:51

what they know. You can't know everything.

15:53

But a room of 10 funny people is

15:56

going to be funnier than a room of

15:58

one funny guy. Want

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wait to see you

16:42

there. And

16:52

another thing, you know, based on the

16:54

strategies that, you know, just reading through,

16:57

I liked and, you know, at least

16:59

resonated with me was this idea of

17:01

embracing chaos instead of... it, right? So

17:03

like, you know, anybody that keeps up

17:05

with anything these days knows that there's

17:08

a lot of chaos and I don't

17:10

want to go there. But like, you

17:12

know, I know in my

17:14

career, you know, I've started and sold a

17:16

couple of companies, I've been through the ups

17:18

and downs and the economic downturns and this

17:21

and that people coming people going, instead of

17:23

thinking or maybe diluting yourself into thinking, okay,

17:25

we're going to hit this stage and then

17:27

we're going to everything is going to be

17:29

smooth. Like, that's Not a

17:31

thing. I mean, anyone that's done this

17:34

long enough, they know that. But I

17:36

think we keep maybe convincing ourselves that

17:38

maybe there is this point of stasis.

17:41

Instead of, you know, talk a little

17:43

bit about what does it mean to

17:45

embrace chaos without being chaotic, I guess.

17:49

Well, that's a good question. I mean,

17:51

let's talk physics, right? There

17:53

is no stasis. You're born,

17:55

your body grows, then it starts to decay,

17:57

and then you die. Nothing is the same.

17:59

Your body is different today than it was

18:02

yesterday. You know, you've lost four percent of

18:04

your cell, whatever the number is. Right. And

18:07

people seek the comfort

18:10

of stasis. You

18:12

know, they want to get everything straight. They

18:14

want to clean the house and then don't

18:16

walk on the floor. I just cleaned the

18:19

house. Right, right. But that change is the

18:21

essence of life. Time passing is change. to

18:24

pretend that every time something happens that

18:27

you didn't prepare for, it's a catastrophe.

18:29

First of all, you're living your

18:32

life on adrenaline, and you're freaked

18:34

out and stressed, and you're not

18:36

doing your best work when you're

18:38

freaked out and stressed. Yeah, good

18:40

point. So if you expect things

18:42

to go to shit, then when

18:44

it happens, you're prepared. And again,

18:46

you're agile. All right, hey,

18:48

everything is great today. But

18:50

if something goes sideways,

18:53

I've already got plan A, plan

18:55

B, and plan C in my

18:58

head on how to deal with

19:00

it. So by expecting it, you

19:02

take the corrosive power away from

19:04

it. And because most people can't

19:06

embrace it, you're giving yourself a

19:09

leg up. Yeah. Does

19:11

that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. No, I

19:13

like that. Yeah. I mean, it's, you

19:15

know, part of it is just being

19:18

realistic and accepting things as they are.

19:20

But also, it's the idea of Once

19:23

you get past the it's scary or

19:25

it's you know, I wish it were

19:27

you know, whatever you wish it were

19:29

Then you can actually start. I mean,

19:31

maybe this kind of goes back to

19:34

the other thread But then you can

19:36

actually start getting creative with it and

19:38

you can start embracing the parts that

19:40

are Opportunities instead of you know, there's

19:42

there's the word in chaos, right? That

19:45

is the that is the key takeaway.

19:47

I think when things break down There's

19:51

it's like a an offensive line

19:53

in football, right, right? They make

19:56

a little hole and the running

19:58

back can get through it It's

20:00

it's that's chaos down there and

20:03

for a moment that chaos separates

20:05

and that person gets through chaos

20:08

is an opportunity to innovate the

20:10

whole core of business success is

20:12

innovation and seeing something that your

20:15

competitors don't see acting on it

20:17

and then executing it and then

20:20

sustaining it. And the sustaining

20:22

it, what you do today is

20:24

different than what you're going to do

20:26

two years from now just because everything

20:28

changes all the time. And not only

20:30

do I think it's important to embrace

20:32

chaos, but I think

20:34

the most important thing people

20:36

need to learn is that

20:38

you are responsible for your

20:41

own personal happiness. You

20:43

are your brand, right? And

20:46

if you're miserable, it's

20:49

your... fault. And

20:51

the way I start people off is

20:53

let's sit down and talk about when

20:56

was the last time you were really

20:58

happy? When was that? What

21:00

were you doing? What about the

21:03

time before that? And if you realize, geez,

21:05

I'm only happy when I'm painting or when

21:07

I'm mowing the lawn or when I'm doing

21:09

this, but my work life is something completely

21:11

different, you're making

21:13

yourself miserable every day. And

21:16

you know, everybody dies. I

21:18

don't see any reason to purposefully

21:21

spend a day in misery when

21:23

you have other options. Now,

21:26

as you get older, it's harder because you have wife

21:28

and kids and you can't just quit your job and

21:30

go sit on a mountaintop. But

21:33

in my opinion, there's

21:35

nothing more important than

21:37

being happy every day.

21:40

Because when you're happy, everything

21:42

else is fine. In show business,

21:44

I audition 20 times before I

21:47

get a voiceover job or an

21:49

acting job. And if I let

21:51

the other 19 times bug me

21:53

or depress me, I'd be miserable.

21:55

You know, my goal is every time I

21:57

audition, I do the best I can. And

22:00

I know if that was, you know,

22:02

if I do 95 % or better,

22:05

I'm happy and then whatever happens happens.

22:07

And maintaining that happiness

22:10

is a lifelong, I

22:13

don't want to say fight, but it's a

22:15

lifelong process that most people don't even Think

22:18

to engage in and that's what

22:20

I try and teach people. Yeah,

22:22

I think it's some of that

22:24

can be tied to, you

22:27

know, so they're like intrinsic versus extrinsic

22:29

motivation. So, you know, everybody works because

22:31

they need money to live and all

22:33

that stuff. So that's the extrinsic stuff.

22:35

And I think that intrinsic stuff is

22:37

harder and less talked about for what

22:39

it's worth. So in other words, like,

22:42

There's lots of things that I like to

22:44

do, but I know in work, I like

22:46

to learn stuff. Like if I'm not learning

22:49

new things, then I'm not happy. So that

22:51

could be applied to literally anything. You know,

22:53

it doesn't mean I need to be a

22:55

teacher. It just means I need to have

22:57

a job that makes me learn things all

22:59

the time. Or carve out

23:01

time in your week where you

23:03

read a book or you read

23:06

the news or you investigate what's

23:08

happening with the James Webb Space

23:10

Telescope. just because it feeds

23:12

your creativity and it feeds your mind

23:14

and it keeps your mind agile. Yeah.

23:17

But you have to instigate that,

23:19

you know, it's easier to lay on the

23:22

couch and watch hockey than it is maybe

23:24

to go read a book by Michio Kaku,

23:26

who, you know, is a genius. But some

23:28

of his stuff is incomprehensible to me. Right,

23:30

right. But it's you have to provide that

23:32

energy. And I think if

23:35

you understand that that gets rewarded

23:37

with and increase in happiness, it's

23:39

easier to continue. And as you output

23:42

the energy and it comes back to

23:44

you in happiness, it builds on itself

23:46

and it becomes a lifestyle as opposed

23:48

to some people who just wake up

23:50

every day, hate their job and go

23:53

to work and get a paycheck and

23:55

then they wake up and they're 65

23:57

and they've got money in the bank

23:59

and they've been miserable. The reality is

24:01

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shopstreamheal.com for more information. Last

25:00

topic I want to talk about

25:02

here is about dissolving fear. That's

25:05

another one of the strategies here. And

25:07

I'll just kind of take it back

25:09

to me. Improv is a scary thing.

25:12

To me, like 15 years ago, I

25:14

never would have gotten up and talked

25:16

in front of people. Now I give

25:19

speeches and keynotes and stuff like that.

25:21

And I'm not terrified and whatever on

25:23

the floor crying, but still. Improv

25:26

maybe it's because I'm not funny, but like

25:29

I'm improv would be a little intimidating to

25:31

me But yet that's something where I maybe

25:33

this also goes back to the I think

25:35

Seinfeld has a joke about this too about

25:37

you know more people wanting to be in

25:39

the coffin than giving the eulogy or something

25:41

so Talk a little bit about I mean,

25:43

you know, it sounds like you had an

25:46

interest early on in like second city And

25:48

that was you had a cute natural curiosity

25:50

about it But again most people you throw

25:52

them on a stage and and ask them

25:54

to be funny They're gonna

25:56

be terrified right like how do you how

25:58

do you kind of embrace? Kind

26:01

of like embracing chaos, but how

26:03

do you embrace some of that

26:05

fear and make it work for

26:07

you? first of all We've been

26:09

improvising for the past 20 minutes

26:12

fair enough, right? Yeah, right you

26:14

improvise every day all day long

26:16

and people still they hear that

26:18

word and they're terrified by it

26:20

right improvising to do comedy on

26:23

a stage is is

26:25

an extreme version of

26:27

that, but we do

26:29

it every day. And

26:31

the key component to

26:33

improvising is listening. I've

26:36

had several talk shows on television

26:38

where I mostly, you know, some

26:40

of them, one of the, the

26:42

extra I was interviewing celebrities, but

26:44

on the travel channel and on

26:46

the dating show back in the

26:48

90s studs, I was interviewing civilians,

26:50

regular people who are nervous to

26:52

be on television at first. So

26:54

what I have to do, A,

26:57

is connect with them, look

26:59

at them in the eye, make them comfortable.

27:01

And then once they're comfortable that it's just

27:03

me and them talking, then

27:05

they'll reveal things and they'll be

27:07

funny and they'll be genuine and

27:10

all of that will proceed. But

27:12

the magic and the power of

27:14

improvisation is being in the moment,

27:16

being present. Because if

27:18

you are, then you

27:20

hear, I say something,

27:22

it made you think of something

27:25

and you responded something back. That's

27:27

improvisation and that's business. If

27:29

you're a salesman and your sales

27:31

team is not performing, maybe

27:34

it's because they're not listening. It

27:36

could be because you have a

27:38

crappy product, but if you have

27:41

a good product and your team

27:43

is not performing well, it's because

27:45

they're not listening to what the

27:47

client is telling them and reacting

27:49

to it and modifying their message,

27:51

to answer what their concerns are.

27:54

And that is something that is eminently

27:56

teachable. The hardest thing about teaching it is

27:58

what you referred to is this fear.

28:00

People hear the word improv and they're like,

28:02

oh, I can't do that. Right, right.

28:04

So step one is I'm like, you guys

28:07

have been improvising all week here at,

28:09

you know, the Gaylord in Orlando. You've been,

28:12

that's what you do. You do it

28:14

all day long. So don't be afraid

28:16

of it. you're doing it already. We're

28:18

just going to fine tune your tools

28:21

and make you aware that's what you're

28:23

doing so you can get better at

28:25

it. Again, to serve your own personal

28:28

happiness. If every time you make a

28:30

decision, the question in your

28:32

mind is, will eating this candy bar

28:35

or doing this sit -up or going

28:37

on this walk or kissing this person,

28:39

is it going to make me happier

28:41

or less happy? And if you only

28:44

do the things that you think will

28:46

make you happier, you'll end up happier.

28:49

You know, sometimes you'll make

28:51

judgment mistakes, but in general,

28:54

if you make happiness your

28:56

number one priority, everything else

28:58

falls into place. Yeah. Yeah.

29:01

And I mean, I also think if you

29:03

add on to that of, you

29:05

know, I think there's a lot of

29:07

fear of failure, you know, part of

29:09

part of the fear thing is that

29:11

you're going to fail. And

29:14

I think when leaders are

29:16

able to teach that, first

29:19

of all, it's not really failure if

29:21

you learn. And in which case, like,

29:23

yes, you can really screw something up

29:25

and maybe nobody learns from it, I

29:27

guess. But most of the time, Even

29:30

mistakes like every yourself and everybody can

29:32

learn from then you know, what what's

29:35

to fear? You're you're you're being afraid

29:37

of learning something whether it's what to

29:39

do or what not to do, right?

29:42

Right think about this I guarantee

29:44

you you have you personally Greg

29:47

have learned more from your mistakes

29:49

and failures Then from your successes.

29:51

Yeah, right. Yeah, so being afraid

29:53

of that process is basically being

29:56

afraid of looking stupid right and

29:58

I think Years on

30:00

stand -up stages and improv stages

30:02

looking incredibly stupid, you know telling

30:04

a joke you think is brilliant

30:06

and it's crickets, right? You you

30:08

realize that you could go out

30:11

and bomb at the improv and

30:13

your life is gonna stay the

30:15

same nothing bad It's you know,

30:17

you're not killing anybody. You're not

30:19

blowing a brain surgery. It's it's

30:21

not as important as you think

30:24

it is and Again going back

30:26

to one of our first points

30:28

if you create a corporate culture

30:30

that makes it imperative to give

30:32

everybody a seat at the table

30:34

and make sure everyone is heard.

30:37

Some people are gonna be better

30:39

at throwing out ideas than other

30:41

people. It's a bell curve of

30:43

talent in that realm. But

30:46

every once in a while, the

30:48

low person on the totem pole

30:50

might lob in something that's brilliant.

30:52

So if you make them afraid

30:54

to say the stupid stuff, you'll

30:57

never get the gems. And listen,

30:59

if you're trying to create a

31:01

new ad campaign or you're pushing

31:03

out a new marketing program, you're

31:06

to have 10 people spitting ideas for three

31:08

weeks. Eventually, one idea is going to be

31:10

chosen. There's tons

31:13

of bad ideas, tons of unchosen

31:15

ideas that built the stairway to

31:17

get you to that idea. And

31:20

the more input you have, the

31:23

better the output is going to

31:25

be. So you have to fear

31:27

is is a wasted emotion. It

31:29

cripples people. It makes them miserable

31:32

and unhappy. You don't step

31:34

in front of a bus, but being afraid

31:36

every day that you wake up, you're going

31:38

to get hit by a bus is stupid.

31:41

You're probably not going to be hit by a bus.

31:43

So why let it cripple your entire life?

31:46

Fear is, in my opinion,

31:48

it's the most stupid wasteful human

31:50

emotion that everybody has to deal

31:52

with. So I think by defanging

31:55

it to a certain degree, and

31:57

understanding that, yeah, you could stand up

32:00

in a meeting and say something really

32:02

stupid today, but next Tuesday, if

32:04

you think you have another stupid idea, maybe

32:07

it's good, because if your group

32:09

is having problems figuring out an

32:11

idea, it means you got

32:13

to move further outside the box to find

32:16

the answer. And,

32:18

you know, the farther outside the box you get,

32:20

the dumber or weirder the ideas might seem, and

32:22

you don't want to inhibit people from Throwing

32:25

it in the worst thing they

32:27

say is you know what? No,

32:29

but that gave me an idea

32:32

about this other thing Yeah, and

32:34

that's how that's how we constructed

32:36

our sets at second city. That's

32:38

how good teams function good sales

32:41

teams good creative teams good C

32:43

levels teams they take the input

32:45

and then Through the the expertise

32:47

of all the people involved winnow

32:50

out the bad stuff and construct

32:52

the prime idea that then they can

32:55

go ahead and activate as best they

32:57

can. You know, some people are afraid

32:59

of doing podcasts. I know,

33:02

I know. There are those

33:04

people that like write out

33:06

the answers to their questions

33:08

and stuff instead of like

33:10

engaging in a conversation like

33:12

this. Because they're afraid to

33:14

listen. I mean, you and I

33:17

didn't discuss anything before we started today. I'm

33:19

sitting here. listening to what you're

33:21

saying and responding and you're doing

33:23

the same thing. And I think

33:25

that makes a more interesting conversation.

33:28

This is my last note here. Johnny

33:31

Carson was on the air for 30 years. And

33:34

my money, he was the best

33:36

late night show host ever because

33:39

he didn't have to be the

33:41

funniest guy. He listened.

33:44

And when someone went sideways and said

33:46

something that wasn't on his card, he

33:49

followed that story. And

33:51

you never said, hey, did you

33:53

see blah, blah, blah on the

33:56

Tonight Show last night? You said,

33:58

did you see Johnny last night

34:00

talking to Don Rickles or Frank

34:02

Sinatra or whoever it may be?

34:04

He had great ears and understood

34:06

that when people say something or

34:08

when they avert their eyes and

34:11

don't want to say something, that's

34:13

where you dig to get the

34:15

information. As

34:18

a leader, I think

34:20

it behooves your enterprise to

34:22

construct a system where everyone

34:24

feels that they can throw

34:26

in their ideas as smart

34:28

or stupid as it may

34:30

seem without fear of mocking

34:32

or Getting fired or feeling

34:34

stupid. Yeah, and eventually you'll

34:36

get better you'll get better

34:38

output from everybody and The

34:40

flip side of that is

34:42

all of your employees will

34:44

be happier and they

34:46

will love coming to work and they

34:48

will be more valued employees and they

34:50

will add more to your bottom line

34:52

simply by making them happier. It's

34:56

almost anti -capitalist, but in

34:58

the truest sense, it is

35:00

capitalism because you are empowering

35:03

people to make good decisions

35:05

and contribute as best they

35:07

can to the endeavor. Love

35:10

it. Well, Mark, thanks so much for joining. I've

35:13

got one last question for you that I ask

35:15

everybody here. What do you do to

35:17

stay agile in your role and how do you find

35:19

a way to do it consistently? I

35:21

talk to strangers. I

35:24

listen to people. When I was traveling with

35:26

the travel channel, I would always go out

35:28

at night. You know, my crew would stay

35:30

in the hotel or do whatever. And I

35:32

would just go out on my own and

35:34

talk to strangers. One night

35:36

we got snowed in in Fargo and

35:39

It was brutally cold. I don't know

35:41

what we were doing there in the

35:43

winter. in Targo, right? Yeah, oh my

35:45

god. And there's like one downtown street.

35:48

Wow. No, it was Grand Forks. It

35:50

was even further north. Oh, wow, okay,

35:52

yeah. And the only two places that

35:54

were open was the VFW Hall and

35:56

the American Legion Hall. Wow. So I

35:59

went into the American Legion Hall, walked

36:01

into the basement, classic old Midwest Plains

36:03

bar, and there was this

36:05

Asian guy, older Asian guy sitting

36:08

at the bar. Nobody else in

36:10

there. So I sit down next

36:12

to him. We start talking and

36:14

turns out he was a United

36:16

States Air Force pilot during the

36:18

Korean War and he told me

36:21

stories about that. He told me

36:23

stories about how he faced discrimination

36:25

because he was an Asian guy

36:27

and we were fighting Asian people

36:29

and it was one of the

36:31

most interesting conversations of my life.

36:34

We went to The trappist monastery

36:36

in Kentucky and I met an

36:38

82 year old monk who had

36:40

been a professional baseball player a

36:42

fighter pilot a bunch of other

36:44

jobs before he became a monk

36:47

and he was what brother Ray

36:49

he was one of the most

36:51

Interesting people I've ever met so

36:53

I stay agile by constantly feeding

36:55

my head with interesting people and

36:58

interesting perspectives that aren't my own

37:00

and You know, it's empathy, learning

37:02

how to put yourself in the

37:04

shoes of other people and then

37:06

put that in the back of

37:08

your head so that when the

37:11

situation needs where you have to

37:13

zig instead of zag, you

37:15

sort of have a paradigm for that. Hey,

37:17

Greg, it was great talking to you, man.

37:20

Thanks for having me on the show and

37:22

continued success on this great podcast and your

37:24

agility. Oh, thanks so much. Really appreciate it.

37:27

Thanks again to Mark DeCarlo for joining the show.

37:29

You can learn more about Mark and his five

37:31

strategies for winning life by following the links in

37:33

the show notes. Thanks

37:37

again for listening to The Agile Brand, brought to

37:39

you by Tech Systems. If you

37:41

enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave

37:43

us a rating so that others can find the show as

37:45

well. You can access

37:48

more episodes of the

37:50

show at theagilebrand.com. That's

37:52

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37:54

if you're interested in consulting

37:56

or advisory services or are

37:58

looking for a speaker for

38:00

your next event. Go to

38:03

www .greggkilstrom.com. That's G -R

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