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0:54

Welcome to Season 7 of the Agile

0:56

Brand, where we discuss the trends and topics

0:58

marketing leaders need to know. Stay

1:00

curious, stay agile, and join the

1:02

top enterprise brands and Martek

1:04

platforms as we explore marketing technology,

1:07

AI, e -commerce, and whatever's next

1:09

for the Omni -Channel customer

1:11

experience. Together, we'll discover what

1:13

it takes to create an Agile Brand,

1:15

built for today and tomorrow, and

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built for customers, employees, and

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continued business growth. I'm your

1:21

host, Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune

1:23

1000 brands on Martech, AI,

1:25

and marketing operations. The

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Agile Brand Podcast is brought to you by Tech

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Systems, an industry leader

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in full -stack technology services, talent

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services, and real -world application. For

1:37

more information, go to

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you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe

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on the app you listen to podcasts on, and

1:45

leave us a rating so others can find us

1:47

as well. And now on to the show. With

1:52

the increasingly complex omnichannel customer journey,

1:54

it seems like attribution is

1:56

getting harder than ever. Do

1:58

you know which of your marketing tactics are really

2:01

driving sales or are you flying blind when

2:03

it comes to measurement? Joining

2:05

us today is Ariana Vogel, Senior

2:07

Director of Product Marketing at Foursquare,

2:09

a leader in location intelligence

2:11

and measurement, helping marketers navigate the

2:13

increasingly complex world of attribution,

2:15

enabling them to develop strategies that

2:17

cut through the noise and

2:19

drive real results. Welcome to the

2:22

show, Ariana. Thanks so much, Greg. So happy

2:24

to be here. Yeah, looking forward

2:26

to talking about this with you.

2:28

Definitely a timely topic here and

2:30

attribution. And I know a lot

2:32

of companies that I work with,

2:34

definitely, this is something that

2:36

keeps people up at night. So

2:38

before we dive in here, why

2:41

don't you start by telling us a little bit

2:43

more about your background, your role

2:45

at Foursquare, and what excites you most

2:47

about the work you're doing? Sure.

2:50

So I lead product marketing

2:52

at Foursquare. For those that

2:54

may be less familiar, Foursquare has

2:56

been around for over 15 years. You

2:58

might be familiar with our

3:00

beginnings as the first check -in

3:02

app, but more recently over the

3:04

last decade, we've really been

3:06

focused on how to service marketers

3:08

and businesses with our understanding of

3:10

where places are in the

3:12

real world through a robust platform

3:15

that helps those marketers run better

3:17

campaigns and businesses solve location -based

3:19

challenges. So my team

3:21

specifically assists with building and

3:23

bringing these messages and products

3:25

to market, as well as

3:27

in the reverse direction, bringing learnings back to

3:29

our team to help us build better

3:31

solutions. What really excites me

3:33

about this role is the challenges

3:36

that we're solving. Our

3:38

space is continuously changing. So

3:40

even six plus years in

3:42

here at Foursquare, every day

3:44

really continues to be exciting

3:46

and completely different. Yeah,

3:48

love it. Well, yeah, and I

3:50

was definitely an early adopter of

3:52

Foursquare. So I have been following

3:54

the company for a while here.

3:57

So looking forward to diving in

3:59

here. And want to start

4:01

with what I talked about at the top

4:03

of the show is just some of

4:05

the challenges that brands are facing

4:07

with measurement and

4:09

attribution. And with this

4:12

omnichannel journey, people

4:14

platform switching, channel switching,

4:17

And whether that's

4:19

solely online or online

4:21

plus in person, what

4:24

do you see as the

4:26

biggest challenges that marketers face in

4:28

measuring campaign success accurately? The

4:31

two that immediately come to mind,

4:33

just to take it back

4:35

to basics, are really

4:38

understanding true marketing ROI. It

4:40

all comes back to that.

4:42

these simple questions of do

4:44

you really understand how your

4:46

channels are working together? Do

4:49

you truly understand how your results

4:51

ladder up to the core

4:53

business objectives for your brand? It

4:55

all kind of comes back to that. The

4:58

second that still continues to

5:00

be a big challenge is

5:02

really understanding where and how

5:04

to optimize mid -campaign. So

5:06

where should I reinvest? Where

5:08

should I de -invest? all

5:11

in service of trying to drive

5:13

efficiency without having to wait until

5:15

the next campaign. If you're

5:17

really just thinking about your

5:19

measurement or attribution reporting as

5:21

a report card after your

5:23

campaign, you're missing out on

5:25

so many opportunities to optimize

5:27

and drive efficiencies, have cost

5:29

savings, even while your campaign

5:31

is in flight. And

5:34

so, you know, we

5:36

started talking about the customer

5:38

journey. We've also

5:40

got a crowded and

5:42

highly competitive retail market.

5:45

How has that made measurements even

5:47

more critical? Yeah, the

5:49

past few years and

5:51

current economic climate have definitely

5:54

led to a more

5:56

fluid brand loyalty environment. So

5:59

consumers, even myself,

6:01

are continuously reconsidering where to

6:03

place their purchasing power. More

6:06

than ever, they might be

6:08

considering the virality of an offer,

6:11

the affordability of an offer, the

6:13

wisdom of the crowds and their networks.

6:17

So all of that from

6:19

a consumer perspective, combined with

6:21

the fact that 83 % of

6:23

retail sales will come from in

6:25

-store shopping in 2025, really

6:28

underscores the ever -growing

6:30

importance of campaign measurement. So

6:33

now more than ever, you

6:35

really need to understand your customers

6:37

understand their journey, be

6:39

keeping tabs on your market share and what

6:42

actions you really need to take to

6:44

improve performance. Yeah,

6:46

and that leads to

6:48

cutting through the noise,

6:50

so to speak, as

6:52

far as competition goes

6:54

and paying attention to

6:56

what customers want and

6:58

how they're behaving means

7:00

we've got to develop

7:02

more personalized strategies to

7:04

deliver the right message to

7:06

potential buyers. What advice would you have

7:08

there to teams that need to

7:10

do just that? Cutting through

7:12

the noise is not easy and

7:14

can sometimes be even quite expensive, but

7:17

my advice would be

7:19

to really go back to

7:21

considering the segmentation that you're

7:23

using to reach your buyers

7:25

and be reevaluating that segmentation

7:27

constantly. Broad, unspecific

7:30

segmentation is not necessarily

7:32

going to service you

7:34

in our current environment.

7:37

A more effective strategy

7:39

will sort of delicately

7:41

balance between granularity and

7:43

scale. You want to make sure

7:46

that you're targeting with the most specificity

7:48

that you can to focus your efforts

7:50

on your exact ideal customer profile. But

7:52

you also need to simultaneously keep

7:54

enough scale in mind for your campaign

7:56

to reach the full potential audience. constantly

7:59

having conversations internally about how to

8:01

balance those two factors of granularity

8:04

and scale. There's really

8:06

a disconnect between a

8:08

consumer's digital footprint and their

8:10

real -world purchases. We

8:12

see this with advertisers that we work with every

8:14

day. Your digital footprint might

8:16

be one that's more aspirational, but

8:19

the other, your real -world purchasing power

8:21

tells you so much more about true

8:23

intent. Where are you actually going

8:25

in the real world? Where are you actually spending? So

8:28

consider focusing your strategy targeting

8:30

strategies towards this true intent by

8:32

segmenting based on actual real

8:34

world behavior and not just what

8:36

someone might be interested in

8:38

engaging with socially or digitally. Yeah.

8:41

So I mean, there's there's a lot

8:43

there. I mean, you know, there's there's

8:45

the strategy and the approach. Of course,

8:48

there's there's the analysis of the data,

8:50

but there's also the putting putting the

8:52

things in place. to enable

8:54

that, right? So, you know, what's

8:56

the role of technology here to simplify?

8:59

If it can be simplified,

9:01

you know, how can

9:03

technology simplify the process of

9:05

understanding all of this? Yeah,

9:08

it's not easy. But

9:11

when assessing campaigns, many

9:14

marketers that we work with get

9:16

caught up in the cycle of

9:18

comparing apples to oranges. What

9:21

I mean by that is, you

9:23

know, This dynamic is a byproduct of

9:25

needing to advertise across so many

9:27

different channels. And those

9:29

different channels have different metrics,

9:32

different ways and time periods

9:34

of delivering you results, and

9:36

most foundationally, even different methodologies

9:38

used to calculate them. So

9:41

that makes performance comparison across

9:43

your whole campaign understandably extremely

9:45

challenging and gaining that true

9:47

understanding of what's working and

9:49

what's not working is a

9:51

really difficult task. So technology

9:53

like what we offer at

9:55

Foursquare with our Foursquare attribution

9:57

product can help with this

9:59

because not only are we

10:01

offering kind of a single

10:03

unified view of your marketing

10:06

across numerous different channels, whether

10:08

that be connected TV, social,

10:10

your digital

10:12

advertising, programmatic, podcast

10:15

even, like the one

10:17

we're on today. With all

10:19

of those different channels, we offer a

10:21

common methodology and set of KPIs

10:23

to be able to measure across them

10:25

so that you're able to get

10:27

that more apples to apples type of

10:29

reporting experience. But new marketers

10:31

and advertisers that we work with are really

10:34

caught up in that cycle of not being able

10:36

to compare. So what

10:38

we offer really sort of brings

10:40

that together in a way

10:42

that's really valuable for them. Want

10:45

to learn more and join the discussion about

10:47

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10:51

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10:53

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you there. where

11:41

Foursquare comes into the equation.

11:43

I mean, as you mentioned,

11:45

a history of being one

11:47

of the first check -in

11:49

apps, and so that

11:51

location intelligence has been a

11:53

big focus of Foursquare for

11:56

years now. How does

11:58

location intelligence help marketers

12:00

to do some of the

12:02

things we've talked about

12:04

so far, but really maximize

12:06

campaign success? Location

12:08

intelligence is crucial for

12:10

marketers for numerous different

12:13

reasons, but one specific

12:15

example is really that

12:17

it enhances and fills

12:19

the gaps in first

12:21

-party data. So

12:24

your digital performance, your

12:26

customer emails won't necessarily tell

12:28

you as a brand who actually

12:30

engaged with your marketing and

12:32

went to visit your store. Similarly,

12:35

your first -party customer data

12:37

won't always easily help you

12:39

conquest, say, the loyalists of

12:41

your competitors in a specific

12:43

region, for example, if you

12:45

might have a different competitive set in one

12:48

market versus another. So,

12:50

location intelligence is really an ideal

12:52

tool in any brand or marketer's

12:54

tech stack to help solve those

12:56

sorts of business challenges and will

12:58

only become even more important in

13:00

the years to come. Also,

13:03

in -store measurement

13:05

like visitation, metrics, in

13:07

-store purchase metrics also help bring

13:09

marketing teams and their agencies

13:11

closer to the core business objectives

13:13

of the overall brand. If

13:16

we go back to the challenges

13:18

that we talked about at

13:20

the start of our conversation of

13:22

really understanding that true ROI, marketers

13:25

really want to continue pushing their

13:27

teams in the ways that they report

13:29

out on performance to be as

13:31

close to the overall ways that ROI

13:33

is being proved for the business

13:35

overall. So having those metrics,

13:37

not just clicks, not

13:39

just even conversions, but having a real

13:41

in -store visit, having an

13:43

in -store transaction, having an in -store

13:46

purchase, allows marketers to kind of

13:48

share that common language and be

13:50

reporting out on the same things

13:52

that will be important to the

13:54

brand overall, as well as help

13:56

them prove out and increase their

13:58

own marketing budgets. So

14:00

rather than dealing in digital KPIs, they're

14:02

able to prove out their performance

14:04

in tangible real -world conversions

14:06

that ultimately tell that more

14:08

powerful story of ROI. Yeah,

14:11

because that's really what it

14:13

comes down to, right, is

14:15

bridging that gap between customer

14:17

browsers on their, you know,

14:19

whether it's their smartphone or

14:21

they're at home on their

14:23

laptop or whatever, and actually

14:25

making those purchases otherwise. You

14:29

know, I'd imagine a lot of

14:31

that is guesswork, you know, making assumptions

14:33

about someone might have

14:35

walked into a store. You're

14:37

actually pulling this data

14:39

together. Back to the point

14:41

about attribution, that's a

14:44

pretty powerful closed loop there,

14:46

right? Yeah, exactly. Even

14:48

once someone gets to the store, there

14:51

are lots of different circumstances where

14:53

someone may have converted on the

14:56

ad, made a subsequent

14:58

visit, but they may

15:00

be intent on browsing or showrooming

15:02

as a concept is really popular

15:04

in our space now for a

15:06

lot of different retailers. So

15:08

that's really why we've enhanced our

15:10

solutions over the last couple of

15:12

years and invested a lot of

15:14

effort in making sure that we

15:16

offer a suite of in -store measurement

15:18

metrics to have at your disposal.

15:21

So whether that's visits, transactions,

15:25

sales, coming to

15:27

life through things like sales lift,

15:29

basket size, Together, these

15:31

metrics paint a much more

15:33

holistic and insightful picture

15:35

for a marketer, and

15:37

they really offer you learnings on

15:39

your customer journey that are not

15:42

only just related to marketing effectiveness, but

15:44

they can be really insightful learnings for

15:46

the rest of your team, too. converting

15:51

and visiting your store, but not

15:53

necessarily making a purchase. Are there

15:55

learnings and insights you can take

15:57

away about your store experience, about

16:00

merchandising, about inventory you might

16:02

have in stock in certain

16:04

regions or locations? So

16:06

there's really a variety of

16:08

different learnings that can come

16:11

out of having an even

16:13

broader swath of in -store

16:15

measurement metrics that are really

16:17

helpful beyond just the Check

16:19

the box, yes or no,

16:21

was this campaign successful? Yeah,

16:24

yeah, love it. And,

16:26

you know, Foursquare works with a

16:29

lot of different brands, but, you

16:31

know, customers like Nextdoor, Ashley Furniture,

16:33

Roku, and many others. Can

16:35

you share, you know, maybe

16:37

a real -world example or, you

16:39

know, even hypothetical example, but, you

16:41

know, an example of, you

16:44

know, how Are brands using some

16:46

of these attribution tools to

16:48

drive foot traffic and increase sales?

16:51

Absolutely. Well, four -square

16:53

attribution users range

16:55

across numerous industries. But

16:59

most notably, advertisers

17:01

in food and dining,

17:03

QSR, retail, see

17:05

really crucial value in in -store

17:07

measurement because of the importance that

17:10

they place on proving marketing's

17:12

impact on their brick -and -mortar businesses.

17:15

So those businesses that have

17:17

a storefront really see

17:19

the immediate value with location

17:22

-based measurement. But some

17:24

specific examples. So I

17:26

mentioned QSR. A great

17:28

success story has been our work

17:30

with Jack in the Box,

17:32

who in a specific campaign was

17:34

really interested in drumming up

17:36

buzz and sales for a new

17:38

menu item. as well as

17:40

increasing their market share in specific

17:42

regions. So for

17:44

this specific campaign, they

17:46

weren't just only using our

17:49

attribution solutions, they also were using

17:51

our targeting solutions. So really

17:53

embracing location intelligence throughout all the

17:55

different phases of the campaign. And

17:58

specifically, they wanted us

18:00

to measure the success of their digital

18:02

out -of -home ads. So the

18:04

campaign was really successful.

18:07

it increased foot traffic to their stores over

18:09

a million store visits as a result of

18:11

that exposure. But even more

18:13

interestingly and a point of

18:15

pride for our team, was it

18:17

driving really strong behavioral lift,

18:20

meaning influencing visits that would not

18:22

have occurred otherwise without consumers

18:24

seeing the out of home ads.

18:27

So what I love about this

18:29

example is not only was

18:31

it a really successful campaign for

18:33

Jack in the Box, but

18:35

it really again shows kind of

18:37

the power of location intelligence

18:39

influencing at different stages of the

18:41

marketing lifecycle for a particularly

18:43

thorny and difficult to measure channel

18:45

like out of home and

18:48

the proof is in the results.

18:50

You also brought up Ashley furniture,

18:52

which is another fantastic example

18:55

of using four square attribution. With

18:58

Ashley, you know, Ashley

19:00

furniture, they have their leadership position

19:02

in the furniture space. but

19:04

they had historically had a hard

19:06

time driving sales and being

19:08

able to connect those sales to

19:10

traditional TV advertising. So

19:13

for the specific campaign

19:15

in an effort to drive

19:17

reach and upper funnel

19:19

performance, Ashley turned to Roku

19:21

to run those connected

19:23

TV ads and test out

19:25

that kind of transition

19:27

from linear TV and traditional

19:29

TV to digital and then

19:31

tapped Foursquare. and four

19:33

-square attribution to measure the results. So

19:36

in turn, not only

19:38

were they able to prove out that

19:40

they could increase store visits, but

19:42

they also were able to decrease their

19:44

cost per store visit with this

19:47

more effective connected TV channel. Roku

19:49

users they found were more

19:51

than 37 % more likely to

19:53

visit the Ashley furniture store after

19:55

exposure. But more importantly

19:57

than any of those specific

19:59

results, it was really a

20:01

success story in, you know,

20:04

someone taking the leap and

20:06

exploring a new emerging channel

20:08

and sort of pivoting from

20:10

that traditional to digital. And

20:12

for square attribution is a really

20:14

effective way to help advertisers dip a

20:16

toe into a new channel where

20:18

they might not have advertised previously. and

20:20

be able to prove out the

20:23

effectiveness of that and help the team

20:25

assess whether or not to reinvest. Yeah.

20:28

Those are great examples. I

20:31

wonder, for those marketers

20:33

out there listening to this, what

20:35

lessons or advice would

20:37

you have for others

20:39

that maybe haven't taken

20:42

that leap yet, but

20:44

want to explore potentially

20:46

similar results? What lessons

20:48

could they take from this?

20:50

The first I'd say

20:52

is to consider a

20:54

holistic marketing strategy using

20:56

location intelligence, especially when

20:58

you're trying out a new

21:00

channel or even trying

21:02

to reinvigorate a channel

21:04

where you've been present

21:06

for quite some time,

21:09

working with a common

21:11

vendor, understanding their methodology,

21:13

having trust in that

21:15

methodology, and really applying that

21:17

across the board. sort

21:20

of offers a constant

21:22

in an experiment where there

21:24

are multiple variables. Secondly,

21:28

you want to make sure that

21:30

you have a strong measurement partner

21:32

in place when you are testing

21:34

and investing in new channels, like

21:36

connected TV, like podcast. You

21:39

want to make sure

21:41

that, like I said, you're

21:43

keeping constants in place

21:45

where you can. so

21:47

that you can really focus

21:50

in on those variables in your

21:52

marketing experiment. And lastly,

21:54

I would just say to be

21:56

touched on out of home is to

21:58

hold your out of home tactics to

22:00

the same standards of measurability as you

22:02

would your digital tactics. The

22:04

technology is there. The tools are

22:07

there. We offer the

22:09

ability to measure out of home at

22:11

Foursquare. So this channel

22:13

can be so much more than

22:15

awareness. Hold

22:17

it to the same standards

22:19

as you do your other

22:21

stuff. Yeah, I love that.

22:23

That's great. Yeah, because it's

22:25

unfortunate if marketers are essentially

22:28

writing off an entire channel

22:30

of, okay, well, we can

22:32

only get but so much

22:34

visibility or clarity on what's

22:36

happening. I wonder along those

22:38

lines, thinking future trends

22:40

and thinking a little bit

22:42

out there. What trends

22:44

or innovations, I mean, if

22:46

we have this capability now

22:49

to really tie location -based attribution,

22:51

what other trends or innovations are

22:53

you seeing on the horizon

22:55

that may change how marketers approach

22:57

things like attribution and measurement

22:59

in the next few years? Yeah,

23:02

there's so many. Obviously,

23:04

in our space, AI

23:07

is... massively emerging,

23:09

rapidly emerging trend,

23:13

whether that's being used for

23:15

segmentation, being used for

23:17

customer journey analysis and measurement,

23:20

campaign optimization, forecasting.

23:23

I would also talk to your vendors

23:25

and partners as a marketer to

23:27

see not necessarily just what AI tools

23:30

you should be putting in your

23:32

tech stack, but how are your partners

23:34

and vendors? working with

23:36

AI as well to improve

23:38

the solutions that you might

23:40

use from them. The

23:42

second trend is, and

23:45

building on AI, is

23:47

really ensuring the usability of

23:49

your first -party data to

23:52

train models, to

23:54

have them work effectively for

23:56

you. You really need to

23:58

have those inputs into those

24:00

models, be structured. captured

24:02

in a way where your

24:04

customer data is usable. It's

24:07

crucial for the effectiveness and use

24:09

of AI in a way that

24:11

will actually benefit your business and

24:13

make your job easier. Also,

24:17

another trend, we're going to continue

24:19

seeing those shifts in consumer

24:21

behavior that we've been seeing over

24:23

the past few years, where

24:25

and how customers will buy, will

24:27

rapidly evolve. probably in ways

24:29

in a few years that we can't

24:32

even conceptualize yet. So what

24:34

marketers really need is a

24:36

flexible strategy that can be

24:38

continuously reevaluated so that teams

24:40

can adapt really nimbly. Those

24:43

that will succeed are those that

24:45

have that flexibility, that adaptability, and

24:47

are able to test and learn

24:49

really quickly. And so

24:51

marketers can really prepare for

24:53

all of these shifts by

24:55

partnering with platforms like Foursquare,

24:57

with vendors who are rapidly

25:00

innovating, but also balancing that

25:02

with the preparation that's needed

25:04

for the long term. Yeah,

25:06

love it. Well, thanks so

25:09

much for joining today, Ariana. One

25:11

last question for you. I'd like to

25:13

ask everybody here, what do you

25:15

do to stay agile in your role, and how do

25:17

you find a way to do it consistently? Yeah,

25:19

we've talked a lot about

25:21

how our industry is constantly

25:23

evolving. The best way

25:26

me and my team stay agile

25:28

is really by just continuously staying

25:30

on top of what's happening in

25:32

our space, continuously investing in learning

25:34

and more deeply understanding the challenges

25:36

that our customers are facing. What's

25:39

really worked for us is setting

25:41

up processes. to turn

25:43

the exercise of industry intelligence into a

25:45

regular practice. And that's really what's

25:47

been a game changer for our team.

25:50

Yeah, love it. Well, again, I'd like to

25:52

thank Ariana Vogel, Senior Director of Product

25:54

Marketing at Foursquare for joining the show. You

25:57

can learn more about Ariana and Foursquare

25:59

by following the links in the show notes.

26:03

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