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in our podcast description to

1:15

learn more. Hi, I'm Greg

1:17

Rice and you're listening to The

1:19

Game Maker's Notebook. Today I'll be

1:21

talking with Will Todd and James

1:24

Carbot of Cole Supper and Yorkshire,

1:26

the creators of Thank Goodness You're

1:28

Here. We'll talk about this comedy

1:31

slap former, watching cartoons, growing

1:33

up, humor in games, and

1:35

working with the amazing comedian

1:37

Matt Barry. Welcome

1:45

to The Game Maker's Notebook,

1:47

a podcast featuring a series

1:49

of in-depth one-on-one conversations between

1:51

game makers providing a thoughtful,

1:53

intimate perspective on the business

1:55

and craft of interactive entertainment.

1:57

The Game Maker's Notebook is

1:59

presented by the Academy of

2:02

Interactive. of Arts and Sciences,

2:04

a member-driven organization dedicated to

2:06

the recognition and advancement of

2:08

interactive entertainment. Well, thanks for

2:10

joining us here today, guys.

2:12

Huge fan of your games.

2:14

I'm excited to get on

2:16

them. You guys, I'd love

2:19

to hear about how you got into

2:21

games, like some of the first games

2:23

you played, what drew you to, when

2:25

to make video games? Yeah, I think

2:27

as a kid, I... Always like came

2:29

up with like little fantasy worlds in

2:31

my heads like smashing bits of Lego

2:33

together That kind of thing and I

2:35

guess like What's my first experience with

2:38

games was probably like? Do you have

2:40

like what like a wacky warehouse? You

2:42

have chucky cheese, right? That's a thing

2:44

where they have video games in the

2:46

chucky cheese like lot cabinets that has

2:48

like spiral the dragon on I think

2:50

it was like playing PS1 games And

2:52

eventually, I got the PS1 and I

2:55

was like, I don't know, just like

2:57

all little kids when you get PS1,

2:59

just like all about it. And I

3:01

think from then on, the Making Games

3:03

was like the focus of this sort

3:05

of, I don't know, creating things, like

3:07

I sort of knew I wanted to

3:09

do games. And I was pretty fortunate

3:12

in that like, the more I learned

3:14

about what making games is, and it's

3:16

actually a lot of a couple of

3:18

a work of work of... engineering and

3:20

art are not just coming up with

3:22

ideas and telling people when you've got

3:24

it right. The more I kind of

3:26

actually wanted to do it, the more

3:28

I enjoyed the process of like engineering

3:31

and stuff. And then James, you didn't

3:33

want to go into games at all,

3:35

right? I'm still on my Dallas honestly.

3:37

No, the, yeah, I did like animation

3:39

and illustration, like union stuff. But I

3:41

was always into games and stuff, but

3:43

not as much as well. I don't

3:45

think I think yeah a lot of

3:48

the like thank goodness you're here and

3:50

the good time garden and

3:52

came out of

3:54

like us two just

3:56

wanting to do

3:58

something together and that's

4:00

like we just

4:02

happen to have complimentary

4:05

skills that is a little

4:07

video game in terms of like my

4:09

I think I wasn't really allowed video

4:11

games and I was super young so my

4:13

first console I think was like a

4:15

ps2 or maybe a game by

4:17

SP so I remember like

4:19

playing Simpsons hit -and -run and absolutely

4:21

loving it and then like playing GTA

4:24

and be like oh my god this

4:26

is Simpsons hit -and -run rip -off and

4:28

then realizing later on that like it's

4:30

the other way around but

4:32

yeah I used to love that game and

4:34

then Simpsons Simpsons Road Vaders and other big one

4:36

too. I mean like Simpsons best gaming

4:38

when I was a kid. Very Simpsons oriented. Very

4:42

Simpsons coded. It was

4:44

good. I also loved the

4:46

Simpsons though. You know the

4:48

location and setting of this game is so important to the game

4:50

so why don't you tell me a little bit more about

4:52

where you're from and how that fed into the game. Sure.

4:55

Do you want to take this one Will? Sure

4:58

yeah so we're from Bansley which is

5:01

a town of the north of

5:03

England former mining town

5:05

and that's about all it's got going for it

5:07

really. No

5:10

it's

5:12

interesting we sort of

5:14

like started the original concept

5:16

for Thank Goodness quite a ways

5:18

away from the town and

5:20

it was this sort of strange

5:22

visually driven idealized town

5:25

almost like Americana originally

5:27

I think right James? Yeah

5:31

definitely there was definitely at some

5:33

point like a ski lift for

5:35

some reason. Yeah

5:37

but as

5:40

we started like

5:42

putting stuff down and

5:44

developing characters because we

5:46

thought it was going to be like partially

5:48

character driven but like sort of more

5:50

moody and atmospheric and then as we

5:52

start getting writing in the characters

5:54

just sounded like us because that's

5:56

what we sound like or they sounded

5:59

like they were from the north England. because that's what

6:01

we sound like. So the space

6:03

we were kind of like creating

6:05

felt more and more like our

6:08

hometown until eventually we thought sort

6:10

of thought that's just funny in

6:12

almost and set it, you know,

6:14

purposefully in Barnsley. We abstract it

6:17

a bit by it's like Barnsworth.

6:19

This is sort of imagined version

6:21

of the town. But ultimately, yeah,

6:23

it seems about. Yeah,

6:27

I mean it has a ton of

6:29

personality charm, but it comes across as

6:31

being a real place and being informed

6:33

by a real place. I'm curious about,

6:35

I know there's like settings in the

6:38

game for turning on like proper English

6:40

versus Yorkshire English and things like that.

6:42

I'm wondering about those kind of colloquialisms

6:44

and as you develop the game, you

6:46

know, seeing those layer in how much

6:48

that kind of informed if you were

6:50

in the right direction or how the

6:52

comedy was hitting. Yeah,

6:55

I think that like the the UI

6:57

stuff that we've switched into like dialect

6:59

at the end That was like really

7:01

a last-minute decision wasn't it? Like we'll

7:03

say is we never really set out

7:05

to make like the Northern English game

7:07

or whatever We just got like it

7:09

just got closer and closer and then

7:11

you went further and further into it

7:13

Until like by the end it was

7:16

completely incomprehensible It sounds like that's because

7:18

you're drawing from you know your life

7:20

and things like that too. But are

7:22

there characters in there that really are

7:24

like, oh, this is the town's like

7:26

drunk or this is the the locksmith

7:28

that we know from around the corner

7:30

or things like that? Yeah, there isn't

7:32

really one in there that's like a

7:34

one for one of someone we knew

7:36

what growing up or anything. I'm trying

7:38

to think of examples. I think they

7:40

all kind of just pull from like

7:42

characters that we like growing up with

7:44

the known and stuff like other. Jasper

7:47

like the Scottish handyman for whatever reason

7:49

his appearance is like informed by like

7:51

my old PE teacher who was like

7:53

he was old when he taught like

7:55

my mom and then he taught us

7:57

so he was like he was coming

7:59

years come We called him a speedy

8:01

reader and like guys like that, you know,

8:03

just like the, because this like the appearance

8:05

and stuff is like in a lot

8:08

of characters, but I don't think there's

8:10

anyone in there that's like a one

8:12

for one. Can you think of any will?

8:14

No, I don't think so. Maybe the worm is

8:16

just me. I think, yeah, it's a common

8:18

question. I think like we sort of,

8:20

I don't know, if the characters are

8:22

even like archeotypes, they're

8:25

definitely not like any one

8:27

particular person. I think basically.

8:29

Every character comes out of just us

8:31

doing a silly voice. And the bits we're

8:33

doing to each other are always hopefully

8:36

new. It was a lot of anxiety for

8:38

most of production that we just sort

8:40

of like ripped off Spongebob

8:42

somehow. We were just like quoting like

8:44

our old childhood cartoons back to each

8:46

other and we just be found out.

8:48

But I don't, hopefully that hasn't happened.

8:50

Yeah. Have you found people, like what's

8:53

the response from locals to the game?

8:55

Have people played it and do they

8:57

have thoughts about thoughts about it? Oh,

8:59

we're not all back in Bandsley anymore.

9:01

No, that was good. Yeah, that was

9:04

exactly what we had. We were like,

9:06

oh, we hope people don't feel like

9:08

we're punching down because that's, you know,

9:10

it's the complete opposite. But yeah, no,

9:12

from experience, like, you know,

9:15

people from the town seem to like

9:17

it. At a very surreal moment where

9:19

I was recognized in a sort of

9:21

cafe on the outskirts of Bandsley.

9:23

Was out for brunch with my mum.

9:25

and some guy who's like, oh, he's good,

9:27

thank you, and he's here. And now she

9:30

finally thinks I've got a real job.

9:32

It was really privileged. And that was

9:34

the purpose of making the game. So

9:36

all is, all is succeeded. Yeah, I

9:38

figure you guys probably have like the

9:40

key to the city at this point

9:43

or something or like lunch with the

9:45

mayor or something like that. It would rule.

9:47

It would rule to have one to the

9:49

mayor and he looked because I collect the

9:51

mayor in the mayor in the game. Awesome.

9:54

Well, let's go back a bit. I played a bit

9:56

of the good time garden too, and you know, you

9:58

can see a lot of what you did with

10:00

thinking as you're here starting to bloom there

10:02

in terms of art style, even like

10:04

slap as the main action. So I'd love

10:06

to hear more about that game as

10:08

well and you know how that kind of

10:10

fed into what you wanted to do

10:12

with thank goodness you're here. Yeah

10:16

that was

10:18

another weird one like we sort of

10:21

like took a stab at making a

10:23

game a few times before and for whatever

10:25

reason it never quite stuck I think

10:27

it was always like you know our skills were

10:29

maybe lacking a little bit but then yeah

10:31

that one fateful day

10:33

many moons ago where

10:35

James came around to my place and we

10:37

sort of sat down

10:39

and we just like tried to get

10:42

the walk cycle out right it was just like

10:44

the little goblin guy who just wang out yeah

10:47

we got him moving around and it just

10:49

sort of like felt satisfying in

10:51

that moment as soon as everything came together

10:53

and that was enough to like keep

10:56

us going for what ended up

10:59

being almost a year part

11:01

time but that would get very

11:03

much again like a you know we

11:05

didn't have like the clear vision right

11:07

at the start it was very much

11:09

an exploration and we had a lot of ideas for what

11:11

it was going to be along the way we had like all right this

11:13

guy's he's going to go do this this and that he's he's

11:15

getting you know food on this big long

11:17

mission to feed his family or something

11:19

but we just sort of like throwing stuff

11:21

in and what we'd done kind of

11:24

had to stick because we'd we'd done it and

11:26

we were doing this around our day jobs otherwise

11:28

so we couldn't really afford to throw too much

11:30

out so um yeah it was just

11:32

kind of the product of this like

11:34

winding path and eventually sort of like landed

11:36

on the finished product which

11:38

thankfully seems as if it was

11:40

designed with some big original intent we

11:44

were so we I can't express enough how

11:46

little we thought about that game as we

11:48

went through it like the other day I

11:50

went I went home and I like uncovered

11:52

a piece of like A4 paper where we've

11:54

clearly just decided like the the characters that

11:56

are in it just like on a whim

11:58

you know just because it's none of them

12:00

are crossed out or anything. So it's

12:02

just like, it's just an A4 piece

12:04

of paper that says like Mushroom Boy,

12:06

you know, Vine Guy, and then Boob Guy's

12:09

Brackets Funny. And then like somehow that

12:11

came together to me again. Amazing.

12:14

Yeah, where did this slap as the

12:16

main action come from? I mean, essentially, it's

12:18

just like an interact button, but it

12:20

provides a lot more humor and kind of

12:22

potential for unexpected reactions. So I'm curious

12:24

how that started and how you decided to

12:26

continue to incorporate that into Thank Goodness

12:28

You're Here? I think that was from, it

12:31

was informed partially by The Good Time

12:33

Garden because like slapping things in that world

12:35

was very satisfying and like quite funny.

12:37

And then originally, we were going to have

12:39

a bunch more like verbs, like you

12:41

could, I think you could pick stuff up

12:43

at one point. And I can't remember

12:45

if there's any other ones, but you're going

12:48

to be able to like slap and

12:50

pick stuff up just like kind of in

12:52

The Good Time Garden. But I don't

12:54

know, we got rid of it. I think

12:56

it just boils it down to like

12:58

the simplest, you know, like way of playing

13:00

the game. And it's also like, it's

13:02

also a nice meaty, like interact button. I

13:05

think you put it one day will.

13:07

So like it's, it's like a, I don't

13:09

know, it's also just like immediately funny

13:11

to just slap someone's shins. Yeah,

13:14

I don't remember where that initial was.

13:16

So yeah, I don't remember where that

13:18

initial idea came out of. I think

13:20

it's just, yeah, I think because a

13:22

lot of the designs in The Good

13:25

Time Garden were just like butt cheeks.

13:27

And it was like, well, okay, it

13:29

follows that you'd slap them. And

13:31

yeah, it's like, it gives you

13:33

this sort of like immediate like kinesthetically

13:35

satisfying way of prompting a response

13:37

out of something. And it sort of

13:39

makes sense that like you give

13:41

something a smack and it goes, oh,

13:45

and yeah, I think it's that carried

13:47

forward. And it just kind of made

13:49

sense to keep rolling with that into

13:51

that goodness. And yeah, like Jim says,

13:53

we had, you know, initial designs on

13:55

like a lot more complex set of

13:57

verbs, like you'd pick up things. I

13:59

think it was like an inventory at

14:01

one or at least you could pick up items and then carrying around and

14:04

have just one at a time. But yeah,

14:06

implementing that in practice across a

14:08

bunch of these different, what we call

14:11

panels, which are like the unique camera

14:13

perspectives that should range from top

14:15

down to side on to, you know, the

14:17

character being smaller or larger

14:19

depending on context. We kind

14:21

of struggle to figure out how we

14:24

just, you know, if you pick up a watering

14:26

can at one side of the world. and you

14:28

can drop it anywhere else, how do we like,

14:30

you know, design for that? And ultimately

14:32

it just made sense to sort of like

14:35

distill it down just to the slap and

14:37

yeah, prompting responses out of

14:39

characters instead of expecting the player

14:41

to like manage a bunch of items in

14:43

a more complex set of herbs. Yeah, it's

14:45

amazing how much you can get out of

14:47

just a single action like that. Like it's

14:50

just a slap, but it's different every time,

14:52

right? I'm curious about art style

14:54

as well, like the game has such a

14:56

striking visual. It has a thing I love

14:58

in games where if you look at a

15:00

picture of it, it has a very unique

15:03

look of its own, doesn't look like anything

15:05

else. So curious what you were pulling from

15:07

and kind of what the thought was behind

15:09

the visuals in the game. Yeah, I think

15:11

that just came from kind of like, I

15:13

don't know, like my sort of illustration style

15:16

and stuff is very much informed

15:18

by like... Kalaat stuff, you know,

15:20

like I watched all that on a bunch

15:22

of time in those kinds of shows, so

15:24

all that kind of stuff was in my head

15:26

at the time. But then along the ways,

15:28

it got kind of more British, we

15:30

got more informed by like these old

15:32

comics in the UK, called like Bino,

15:35

where it's like these nobly-need, you

15:37

know, like characters with like, it

15:39

was super skinny and have like,

15:41

huge bull-wiss noses, eyes and stuff. And

15:43

it's that kind of stuff also looked a

15:45

bit like these like weird horny postcards that

15:48

you can get in the UK Or I've

15:50

typically got in the past where it's just

15:52

like There's a bunch of like innuendos and

15:54

stuff and that like lent more into the

15:56

you know cheekiness of the game and stuff

15:59

so that got inspired a bunch of

16:01

stuff as well and then there's

16:03

also like this strange these

16:05

cards these these like seaside

16:07

postcards are always in this

16:09

like this toby cavalry which is like

16:11

a chain of restaurants in the UK that

16:13

sells like just like meat and

16:15

gravy and stuff and they're always like inexplicably

16:17

on the wall and I always find

16:20

it hilarious how they were just like very

16:22

on the nose in new windows for

16:24

no particular reason but yeah that stuff

16:26

tied it in to make it feel

16:28

like more British I guess yeah there's something

16:30

to about the just like the

16:32

brush with it's like very consistent

16:34

right and it makes it feel

16:36

like you're almost drawing with a

16:38

marker oh did I just pick

16:40

up on something you're hoping you

16:42

just made my dad they'll tell

16:44

me about it that was I

16:46

was I was absolutely draconian with

16:48

the stroke with and actually I

16:51

would not believe I'm

16:55

glad I picked up on

16:57

it. yeah yeah. no it's very important

16:59

I think like aesthetic rules whatever

17:01

to stick to those to make it

17:04

just otherwise it sort of betrays

17:06

the world in a way and

17:08

you you kind of become you

17:10

become like more aware of it being

17:12

a video game which video games is

17:14

very hard because there's so many limitations

17:16

technical or otherwise so you're always running

17:18

into these kind of things so it's like for

17:20

me it's like the visual version of like of an

17:22

invisible wall you know yeah

17:25

it almost also makes it feel handmade right

17:27

in a way it almost feels like you're

17:29

painting it all with the same ballpoint pen

17:31

or something like that yeah yeah putting it yeah

17:34

very cool yeah I

17:37

guess the other thing I obviously see

17:39

is just cartoons right so it

17:41

feels very heavily inspired by cartoons and

17:43

the pacing in children's cartoon so

17:45

are there certain shows you might have

17:47

watched and pulled from was that

17:49

intentional there

17:52

you go well you already call

17:55

that adventure time but

17:57

yeah yeah I guess

17:59

the the obvious like

18:01

yeah like Jim says

18:03

the cow sort of school of

18:06

cartoons. But I think, like, yeah, toenly, we

18:08

always try to, like, follow our noses and

18:10

not really feel like we're emulating any, like,

18:12

one thing. I think it's going to be

18:15

tendency in games to do, like, oh, we're

18:17

referencing this explicit artist or, like, this sort

18:19

of, like, genre or whatever. We wanted to,

18:21

maybe, not even, like, deliberately escaped that. It

18:23

was just wasn't necessarily what we were trying

18:26

to, like, like, go for. And I think.

18:28

Yeah, totally we're more like influenced by, yeah,

18:30

things like carry-on films, specifically these horny seaside

18:32

postcards, I can't emphasize like how much that

18:34

affects the whole thing, how much they're on

18:37

consistently on the moot board. And then things

18:39

like Reeves and Mortimer, like live action comedy

18:41

stuff, like surrealist, kind of sketch shows, or

18:43

big Reeves Big Night Out was the big

18:46

one, like early production, sort of like in

18:48

One Night, in One Night, in One Night,

18:50

like the entire like two series box set

18:52

of Big Reeves Big Night out and I

18:54

kind of came in the next morning was

18:57

like well what about what about this and

18:59

there's any one thing we can point to

19:01

it's it's more that than any of the

19:03

like visual references because yeah James decided his

19:05

own sort of very distinct style and they're

19:08

sort of cold up at how style we've

19:10

gone with. You can call out a venture

19:12

time and you talk about how this is

19:14

a bit inspired by you know. I'm wondering

19:17

if there's specific cartoons you grew up watching

19:19

or kind of like the era of cartoons

19:21

that you guys experienced, but I guess I

19:23

just generally felt the kind of Saturday morning

19:25

cartoon vibe that we have here in the

19:28

US, and I'm not sure if it's the

19:30

same in the UK or where that's coming

19:32

from. Yeah, I think if there's a particular

19:34

era of cartoons, it's not actually the ones

19:37

we grew up watching because we grew up

19:39

watching like, yeah, British cartoons and you know.

19:41

but also like a lot of American cartoons

19:43

because that's you know where most of them

19:45

came from so like I did an idea

19:48

was like a big one that I used

19:50

to watch but I wouldn't say the game

19:52

was inspired too much by those kind of

19:54

show and it's more

19:56

inspired by like the

19:59

stuff that our parents

20:01

would watch growing up, which

20:03

it is really weird like puppetry,

20:05

like there's a bagpuss, which is

20:08

a great one about like I

20:10

don't know the stories for bagpuss.

20:12

It's a cat that lives with a

20:15

mouse or something in a

20:17

big shop. Yeah, it's like

20:19

a lost and found like

20:21

a cabinet shop thing. And

20:24

every day this girl Emily she'll

20:26

find stuff and she'll put

20:28

it in the in the shop and

20:30

then all the toys and like bagpusses is weird

20:32

old cat and then there's like a nice

20:35

book stand, it's a bird

20:37

and then like a raggedy hand doll and then a

20:39

bunch of mice and a church organ. It's

20:41

honestly incredible that was like there's

20:44

one bit with like chocolate biscuits

20:46

that's like only only real ones will

20:48

remember but that just has me in

20:50

hysterics every single time and that like

20:52

probably informs my humor more than

20:54

anything else. Yeah,

20:57

no, I think for me it's just something

20:59

about the pacing, right? Like a lot of

21:01

adventure games, I'd say this is someone who

21:03

made adventure games and loves adventure games, but

21:06

pacing can be slow, right? You often hit

21:08

these like puzzle challenges or sticky parts of

21:10

the game where the narrative can kind of

21:12

slow. But with this game, I felt like

21:14

there was a flow and it kind of

21:16

kept moving and the jokes came rapidly and

21:18

quickly and it felt more like the pacing

21:20

of a children's cartoon and that it had

21:22

your momentum to it. And I wondered how

21:24

much, you know, iteration it took to

21:26

get to that point where players weren't

21:28

getting stuck or lost or slowing things

21:30

down. Yeah, I think

21:32

we knew because we didn't have

21:34

sort of mechanical hook that the

21:37

thing that players kept players go in

21:39

was like, what's next kind of thing.

21:41

So we always tried to like every

21:43

corner you turn, you'd see something new.

21:46

That was very intentional. And I think right the start,

21:48

you know, we had illusions of grandeur and the

21:50

whole thing was going to be like 14 hours long

21:52

and like chock full of these bits. And then

21:54

we did some simple sums, which is like one week's

21:57

worth of work equals one character, 200

21:59

characters. equals. Oh no. So like we

22:01

figured out pretty soon that we couldn't

22:03

do that. So that's why it's sort

22:05

of at some point we decided

22:07

to forfeit length and make it short but

22:09

dense and we figured that way isn't

22:12

our stage welcome to and it's a bit more like

22:14

a film because I mean the whole thing paces like

22:16

a cartoon and a film anyway so. Totally

22:19

well I felt good that it seemed

22:21

to acknowledge my time and yeah it's

22:23

nice because it just kept the flow

22:25

going it never felt like things were

22:27

halting or the story was was pausing

22:29

so yeah I wanted to talk a

22:31

little bit about humor and games and

22:33

I think a lot of people would

22:35

say writing isn't necessarily the strong suit

22:38

of video games and humor is even

22:40

probably something less often attempted but you

22:42

guys totally nailed it there's like funny

22:44

jokes and and and things all over

22:46

this game so yeah curious what challenges

22:48

you faced and trying to to find humor in

22:50

the game and how much kind of iteration it

22:52

took what your process looked like there. Yeah

22:56

it's something it is a

22:58

good one and I think for

23:01

us like there wasn't any

23:03

like easy answer like

23:05

in terms of like the process we

23:07

would just like start with

23:09

like the gag so we'd be

23:11

like I don't know we'll just do like what's

23:14

the classic one we just quote back and

23:16

forth James I think it's all sort of

23:18

like been exercised in post -release maybe it's a

23:20

good one I said £2 .50 for parking

23:22

actually the ones that we find funny and

23:24

no one else likes. Yeah

23:27

I think by the end of it it

23:29

was like very inside baseball and we're just

23:31

doing stuff explicitly for each other I mean

23:33

we're doing that the entire time really but by

23:35

the end of it it was just like no no

23:37

one's gonna find this funny and a lot of stuff

23:39

probably just got cooked because it was it was nonsense

23:41

but um yeah I think I don't

23:44

know like stuff like the the family

23:46

arguing about the size of

23:48

the pie and the oh

23:50

yeah big enough big enough

23:52

not to my identity but that kind

23:54

of thing yeah we'd just like

23:56

be in the office like saying that to each other

23:58

and and I don't know sort of almost like

24:01

refining it by this weird

24:03

manic call and response game.

24:05

And I eventually want to get

24:07

time to implementing that, then we

24:09

have to figure out how that

24:11

becomes like an interactive sequence and

24:14

how that works as this

24:16

complicated clockwork of animating

24:18

bits of thing in engine. So I

24:20

think it's just having the approach with

24:23

the writing literally at the

24:25

forefront, like it was never like...

24:27

Okay, here's like a level and

24:29

then these characters have to talk

24:31

to each other to get some

24:33

mission critical bit of info. Hand that

24:35

off to someone who has to then

24:37

like punch that up or add flavor,

24:39

but that could be rewritten at any

24:42

given point. I think that seems to

24:44

be the challenge for writing in

24:46

games typically, is you're juggling,

24:48

yeah, the sort of functional requirements

24:50

of the thing, whereas for

24:53

us, it was always like, the joke is

24:55

the thing. and everything else is sort

24:57

of like in service of that. So

24:59

to anyone else who wants to make

25:01

a game like this, first of all, probably

25:03

don't. It's too hard. But if you are

25:05

going to do that, you have to like,

25:08

you know, look at the writing first

25:10

before trying to like stick that

25:12

on top of anything else. Yeah, I

25:14

think we also like, the troubles if

25:16

you present the game is like, this

25:18

is a game that's just like jokes

25:20

start to finish. That also will play

25:22

away thin fast. So we kind of

25:24

have Yeah, like the illusion of

25:27

a game almost in like the

25:29

storylines in like your tasks

25:31

to help the dance work

25:33

and that kind of like

25:35

affords the humor as well. So

25:38

it's a weird like trade. Yeah.

25:40

Well now I'm curious what

25:42

are some of your favorite gags?

25:44

In the game. Yeah. Yeah, it's

25:46

all the ones that like no one

25:48

seems to, the ones that are just

25:50

like completely off the wall. Maybe you

25:53

can explain them to us on the...

25:55

There's no like logic behind a

25:57

lot of this stuff. It's just kind

25:59

of what... I think underpinning a lot

26:01

of our sense of humor is saying

26:03

something that sort of sounds like it

26:06

should make sense, but then doesn't quite.

26:08

Because ultimately humor is about

26:10

like indirection, right? You

26:12

sort of, you laugh at something because

26:15

your brain is really good at like

26:17

guessing what's coming next. It's like a

26:19

prediction engine type thing. And then

26:21

when that's averted, it kind

26:23

of creates this spasmodic response.

26:26

Yeah, I don't know. because

26:28

something happened that you weren't

26:30

expecting and energies like kind

26:32

of yeah redirected into that. So

26:34

I think I don't know for his humor

26:36

is just like it's leveraging that

26:39

it's just like saying something that

26:41

like it's subverting expectation

26:43

while also yeah has the error making

26:45

sense but then just doesn't at

26:47

all. Yeah. That's a good segue too. And

26:50

I know you guys did a bunch of

26:52

the VOA. I can recognize your voices in

26:54

the game just from this, but I also hear

26:56

a very recognizable voice that I think does

26:58

this very well, which is the wonderful Matt

27:00

Barry showing up in this game. And he

27:02

has a thing where it's not even the

27:04

jokes are kind of unexpected. It's like his

27:06

way of delivery, just the emphasis he puts

27:08

on a syllable or the pattern of speech

27:10

is just funny in its own right too. Yeah,

27:13

that was a weird one because like on

27:15

the call we just we sort of flipped

27:18

up the decide that he should do another

27:20

accent So he was actually we were

27:22

actually doing the lines to him, you

27:24

know feeding them the lines in our

27:26

accent So he knew what the accent

27:28

sounded like and then he'd do it

27:31

back So we were like doing impressions

27:33

of him to him doing impression of

27:35

us It was bizarre. So the whole like

27:37

you know, like him going like fertilize

27:39

we'd after like we'd after like listen

27:41

to him say a fertilizer Yeah, that's

27:44

amazing. How did that all come about?

27:46

What was it like working with

27:48

them? Yeah, the publisher, yeah, the

27:50

publisher organized it as a sort of

27:52

little treat for us, I suppose. They

27:55

were like, what'd be like a cool

27:57

thing we could get here? And be

27:59

like, yeah, cameo. actor just like some

28:01

celebrity doing a bit part maybe

28:03

and he was sort of in the

28:05

works for quite a while and then it

28:07

came around all of a sudden and required

28:10

like a lot more of his time so

28:12

we had to recast him and then also

28:14

write a whole bunch more material

28:16

so I don't know I think some of some

28:18

good stuff came out of that some not

28:20

so good stuff in terms of our material

28:23

but then on the call it was

28:25

just like yeah it was incredible

28:27

because we sort of like Jim says

28:29

figured out what the accent was going to

28:31

be and then he'd just do it exactly how

28:34

we had it in our heads. With basically

28:36

every voice actor we were pretty, again,

28:38

pretty tyrannical. We knew what it was supposed

28:40

to sound like. So we'd give a lot of

28:42

direction but with Matt he just like

28:44

had it like just like perfect every

28:46

time until by the end of it it

28:48

was like it's an incredible color response where

28:50

yeah like Jim says he was doing he

28:53

was doing the line and then Matt would

28:55

like do it exactly how we wanted it,

28:57

but in a Yorkshire accent voice. which

28:59

is the good news. Awesome. Well, it

29:01

turned out hilarious. You guys

29:03

made a wonderful game. It's

29:06

available now to play on

29:08

all your favorite consoles

29:10

and PC, I believe. So please

29:13

do run, go and get it.

29:15

Thanks for joining us guys. Is

29:17

there any final word of wisdom

29:19

you would like to leave us

29:22

with or some story that

29:24

you left out that you think

29:26

the world needs to hear? Awesome.

29:30

Lovely. Well, thank you so

29:32

much and have a good one.

29:35

Good rest with, good luck with

29:37

the rest of the game. Thank

29:39

you. Thank you. Thanks for

29:41

having us. Thank you. Thank

29:43

you for joining us for

29:45

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