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4:08

Now on to our

4:11

episode. I was born

4:13

with a special gift.

4:15

The ability to mentally

4:18

transform any situation into

4:20

the worst case scenario

4:23

in my own brain.

4:25

My therapist calls my

4:28

gift catastrophizing. and that's

4:30

why I'm uniquely qualified

4:33

to scrutinize and analyze

4:35

history's greatest disasters and

4:37

find out who's to

4:39

blame. They say history

4:41

repeats itself not on

4:43

my watch my name

4:45

is Rebecca Delgado Smith

4:47

and I am the

4:49

alarmist Hey

4:56

everyone, thanks for tuning into

4:58

The Alarmist. A comedy podcast

5:00

where we talk about history's

5:03

greatest tragedies and figure out

5:05

who's to blame. Today we're discussing

5:07

the making of the movie The

5:09

Room. Here's what you need

5:12

to know. The 2003 independently

5:14

produced movie The Room follows

5:16

the tragic downfall of Johnny,

5:18

played by writer, director and

5:21

producer Tommy Wiseo, a kind-hearted...

5:23

Long-haired banker living in modern-day

5:25

San Francisco. He's deeply in love

5:27

with his fiancé Lisa, who he

5:29

has sex with within the first

5:31

few minutes of the film. However,

5:33

Lisa grows bored with Johnny

5:35

and for no identifiable reason

5:37

betrays him by having an

5:39

affair with his best friend

5:41

Mark. Oh, hi Mark. Oh, hey

5:44

Johnny, what's up? I have a

5:46

problem with Lisa. She says that

5:48

I hit her. What? Well, did

5:50

you? No, it's not true. Don't

5:52

even ask. What's new with

5:54

you? Meanwhile, a series

5:56

of bizarre, mostly unresolved

5:58

subplots unfold. Mother Claudette casually

6:01

reveals she has breast cancer. I got

6:03

the results of the test back. I

6:05

definitely have breast cancer. Denny, a young

6:07

neighbor whom Johnny financially supports, gets into

6:10

trouble with a drug dealer. What kind

6:12

of drugs do you take? It's nothing

6:14

like that. What the hell is wrong

6:17

with you? I just needed some money

6:19

to pay off some stuff. And two

6:21

of Lisa's friends have sex in

6:23

Johnny's den. Lisa's deception intensifies

6:26

as she keeps having sex

6:28

with Mark. At Johnny's birthday

6:30

party, she publicly flaunts her

6:33

affair with Mark, causing a

6:35

dramatic confrontation. Johnny and Mark push

6:37

you will come to me! Get out my

6:39

house! I kill you! I bring him in

6:42

the phone! Hey! Stop it! I kill you,

6:44

you bastard! You could kill me if you

6:46

tried. Johnny and Mark push each other

6:49

around, are broken up by the

6:51

party goers. And then, the same

6:53

scene repeats again, and they're broken

6:55

up again. Don't touch me,

6:57

motherfucker, get out. Heartbroken and

6:59

betrayed. Johnny locks himself in

7:01

his room. While he's in the

7:04

bathroom, Lisa calls Mark, and they

7:06

agree to meet for more sex.

7:08

But Johnny's set up a recorder

7:10

and hears everything. He confronts Lisa,

7:13

and she says she no longer

7:15

loves him and leaves him and

7:17

leaves. Johnny angrily smashes everything in

7:19

sight. Then, in the film's climax,

7:22

he pulls out a gun

7:24

and tragically takes his own

7:26

life. Mark and Lisa rush in

7:28

after hearing the gunshot,

7:30

and in an ironic

7:32

twist, Mark, who was

7:34

complicit in Johnny's downfall,

7:36

suddenly condemns Lisa and

7:38

declares his loyalty to

7:40

Johnny's memory. Then, Denny

7:42

runs in and sobs

7:44

over Johnny's body. The

7:46

movie ends on a

7:48

shot of Johnny's Johnny's

7:51

body. with police sirens

7:53

wailing in the background.

7:55

Despite the lackluster performances,

7:57

confusing narrative and perplexing

7:59

dialogue. The room has become

8:01

a cult classic. Tommy Wiseau set

8:03

out to make a heartbreaking

8:05

drama, but created something even

8:08

more rare, a film

8:10

so uniquely terrible that

8:12

it became unforgettable. You're

8:14

tearing me apart, Lisa! Fun

8:18

Facts, aka Death Stats According

8:20

to Greg Cistero, Tommy Wiseau

8:22

submitted the room to Paramount

8:25

Pictures for distribution, but upon

8:27

reviewing the room, they rejected

8:29

the film within 24 hours.

8:31

Tommy made the decision to

8:33

purchase, rather than rent the

8:35

film production gear. It was

8:38

reportedly a $1 million investment. Wiseau

8:41

would routinely forget the lines he

8:43

wrote while acting. It has

8:45

been reported by a crew

8:47

member that at least once, they

8:49

had to get 32 takes for

8:52

a 7 second line. Tommy marketed

8:54

the room by renting a large

8:56

billboard with his face on it

8:58

for $5 ,000 a week. When

9:00

it finally came down in 2008,

9:02

it was reported that the total

9:04

was upwards of $300 ,000. The

9:08

box office take -home cost

9:10

was $1 ,900. The total cost

9:12

to make the film was

9:14

$6 to $7 million. It

9:17

was immediately pulled from cinemas. As

9:19

he considered it a masterpiece, Tommy Wiseau

9:21

paid theaters out of pocket to

9:23

play his film. This is because a

9:26

movie has to be in theaters

9:28

for at least two weeks in a

9:30

major city to be eligible for

9:32

an Oscar nomination. Sex

9:34

scenes take approximately 10

9:36

% of the total

9:39

runtime. In 2017, the

9:41

room opened for one

9:43

day only in 600

9:45

theaters nationwide. A

9:47

memorable scene in the

9:49

room takes place at

9:51

a flower shop. The

9:53

woman behind the counter

9:55

wasn't an actress and

9:57

was actually working in

10:00

the shop. If you

10:02

go to a showing

10:04

of the room or

10:06

are a fan, it's

10:08

customary to... to bring your own footballs

10:10

and spoons to throw at the screen as

10:13

a way to celebrate the film. Greg Cicero,

10:15

Mark in the film, wrote a 2013 book

10:17

about his experience called The Disaster Artist. The

10:19

Disaster Artist became a Golden Globe and Critics

10:21

Choice Award winning film

10:24

and secured several Academy

10:26

Award nominations. Fact

10:29

checker Chris Smith. Hi, Denny.

10:31

And our very, very special

10:33

guest today is our dear

10:35

friend, actor, comedian, writer. We

10:37

got out of Lustick in

10:40

the house. Hi, Denny. Hi,

10:42

Denny. Hi, Denny. Hey, Johnny. Right

10:44

off the bat, I just want

10:46

to say for full context. I

10:48

note, like, the scholarship on how

10:51

like bad this movie is, has

10:53

been well documented. It is a

10:55

been a... cults bad movie best

10:57

bad movie ever etc for when

10:59

was it made oh three so

11:01

for like coming up on God

11:04

I have only previous to the

11:06

recording of this brilliant podcast I

11:08

had only been familiar with the

11:10

cultural footprint of the room but

11:13

had never actually seen the thing

11:15

itself so this morning set my

11:17

alarm for six 30 in the

11:19

morning wow dedication Denny, I woke

11:22

up in the room, Denny. And

11:24

Chris very kindly sent me the

11:26

ripped streaming link for the movie.

11:29

And I had my morning coffee

11:31

this morning and took in this

11:33

disaster piece, I guess. What could

11:36

I? A true disaster piece of

11:38

cinema. You really can't call it

11:40

a film. No. Yeah. It's not

11:42

totally a movie, right? It's not

11:45

a film. It's an experience,

11:47

I guess. It's a situation.

11:49

Yes, you're presented with the

11:51

situation and then you get

11:53

no information for an hour

11:55

and a half until it

11:57

ends. That's literally it. I

12:00

did not want to finish it.

12:02

Yeah, it does feel a little

12:04

like you're being punished. Yeah, and

12:07

I and You know Clayton gets angry.

12:09

I know I know you can

12:11

get angry But he was so

12:13

angry from start to finish I

12:15

did not want to finish it.

12:18

Yeah, it does feel a little

12:20

like you're being punished Yeah, and

12:22

it feels like a little bit

12:24

like punishment I do, I personally

12:27

enjoy the experience. We're

12:29

getting ahead of ourselves. Adam, you're

12:31

trying to skip your homework, which

12:33

is... I'm so sorry, I'm sorry.

12:36

Adam, we have to start off the

12:38

show by asking you, what is

12:40

something that's recently alarming you? What's

12:42

something that's keeping you up at

12:45

night? Oh gosh Rebecca what isn't

12:47

these days am I right? I

12:49

know am I right? You are

12:51

right. Well serious answer would be

12:53

like creeping authoritarianism of course obviously

12:56

but keeping me up at night

12:58

for sure but a less serious

13:00

answer would be I need to

13:02

send my son to school with

13:05

the rain boots because it's sort

13:07

of like rainy all of a

13:09

sudden and they've been misplaced Rebecca

13:11

Clayton and Chris. And so I

13:14

meant to ask you, have you

13:16

guys seen his rain boots? Or

13:18

they were... But I do have

13:20

Maggie's scarf at my house. That's

13:22

for real. So if you need a

13:24

scarf. I have Maggie's scarf. It actually

13:26

helps me out. So, okay, I'll take

13:28

it. I'll take it. But you know

13:30

we've been as you Chris and Rebecca

13:33

obviously have been as well been displaced

13:35

from our home for months for these

13:37

These two American months and it's just

13:39

like you know Maggie and I aren't

13:41

like the neatest people were like a

13:43

little bit disorganized a little sloppy so

13:45

things get lost and it's like yeah

13:47

not being in our house and like

13:50

being messy in one's own house is

13:52

one thing but like being messy and

13:54

like losing track of stuff in a

13:56

house that isn't your own it's like

13:58

even more distressing or something. me is

14:00

my own, is the depth

14:02

and profundity of my own

14:05

disorganization and inability to keep

14:07

my son's shoes straight. and

14:09

organized. So straight up, dude.

14:11

But mainly the authoritarianism thing.

14:13

Maybe they're creeping away from

14:16

the authoritarianism. Yeah, the boots

14:18

are out of here. They

14:20

have. Well, I was going

14:22

to say maybe if you

14:24

had a sort of a

14:27

strong arm authoritarian figure who

14:29

is sort of forcing you

14:31

to keep better track of

14:33

your things. Yeah, no, you're

14:35

right. Are you offering Chris? Are you

14:38

that? I'm busy? Careful. I'm actually,

14:40

I got like a totally jammed

14:42

week. Oh, no, no worries. Yeah,

14:44

so hit them up next week

14:46

though. Yeah, for sure. Oh, you

14:49

up next week for sure. You

14:51

want to be my dictator. You

14:53

know who, you know who was

14:55

also really, really busy. Mark.

14:58

All the characters. Johnny. Johnny.

15:00

Every time, every time they were on

15:02

a call, they would say, I'm busy.

15:04

As he sits stagnantly in the car.

15:06

Yeah, talking a thousand yards stare

15:08

in the middle of the day.

15:10

I would say Chris is as busy as

15:13

Mark this week. Yeah. I think we

15:15

also have to just be cognizant in

15:17

this episode of, I think a lot

15:19

of listeners aren't going to have seen

15:21

the movie. Okay, so maybe we should,

15:23

they should all pause. Watch the podcast

15:25

right now. Punish yourself for 90 minutes.

15:28

Well, it's also difficult to find. Like

15:30

I found it on like some red

15:32

thread. Like I found some crazy link.

15:34

So I just want us to sort

15:36

of as we're describing some of these

15:39

situations to paint the broader picture here.

15:41

I think that's a good call. But

15:43

there are some clips on YouTube

15:45

that you could really, you know,

15:48

just get a taste. Familiarize

15:50

yourself. Get the flavor

15:53

of it for sure. Yeah, because

15:55

the way Johnny or Tommy Why

15:57

So who plays... Johnny. Johnny. Johnny.

16:00

speech and and and

16:02

and his I would say

16:04

his levels his range is

16:06

yeah let's talk about the

16:09

range yeah what is unlike

16:11

anything I've ever seen in

16:13

in reality in television I

16:16

think in that range Okay,

16:18

so medium and high. He's

16:20

a crock pot, basically. He's

16:23

a crock pot. He's the

16:25

crock pot of actors. Yes,

16:27

exactly. It's, I mean, for

16:30

most of the movie, he

16:32

looks like he's sleeping, like

16:34

he's sleepwalking a little bit,

16:36

right? Yes. He's so confusing.

16:39

It's like, it's as though

16:41

he's as though he's brand

16:43

new to earth. I do

16:46

get the sense that like

16:48

he does have this common

16:50

gesture that he does where

16:53

he sort of puts his

16:55

hands behind his head like

16:57

relaxes and I got the

17:00

sense I'm like oh he's

17:02

like acting casual like he

17:04

saw like right that's like

17:07

that's him performing human casualness

17:09

and it's like he's laying

17:11

back he because he already

17:14

looks like he's sleepwalking yeah

17:16

but then he lays back

17:18

to really intensified That's his

17:21

third level. You only see

17:23

those three things. And then

17:25

the laugh, which feels like

17:28

it's like, it's like, maybe

17:30

he's like dealing with his

17:32

own anxiety. Like that like

17:35

really. I would say that's

17:37

his third level. That's his

17:39

third. You only see those

17:42

three things. And then it's

17:44

the combination of how he

17:46

puts them together. just sing

17:49

sing yes his the transitions

17:51

in his acting are only

17:53

matched by the transitions from

17:56

scene to scene in the

17:58

movie like they are so

18:00

brutal and sharp. The

18:03

flow does, there is

18:05

no flowing in this

18:07

movie. In fact, yeah,

18:10

not even a

18:12

clip of San

18:14

Francisco's cityscape can

18:17

save you from this

18:19

flow. It's like you're

18:21

in a car. with a

18:23

person who's driving stick for the

18:26

first time. Yeah, exactly. That's a

18:28

great analogy. Yeah. That is exactly

18:30

what it feels like. And has

18:32

only seen stick shift driving like

18:34

on in a bridge. Yeah. Yeah,

18:36

exactly. Yeah. Well, that's what's

18:38

funny is because the movie obviously

18:40

does take place in the Bay

18:42

Area in San Francisco as evidenced

18:44

by the many sort of one

18:47

could assume stock footage shops. I

18:49

would say there's at least a

18:51

hundred. And there's probably, like if

18:53

it's a 90 minute movie, we're

18:55

getting probably eight minutes of just

18:57

panoramic shots. Cities games. Solid eight minutes.

18:59

And he repeats them. Yeah, so it's

19:01

not just like the first time you're

19:04

seeing, he repeats them multiple times. Yeah,

19:06

exactly. But that's what's so funny. It's not

19:08

like when the movie begins, like, again, I

19:10

was trying to go with fresh eyes. I

19:12

only known about, like, like I said,

19:14

about the sort of the sort of

19:16

the sort of the cultural reputation of

19:18

the movie of the movie, but, but

19:20

I'm like, like, like, like, Give this

19:22

movie the benefit of the doubt and

19:24

like appreciate it as though it is

19:26

like a competent piece of art and

19:28

like it can fool you because like

19:30

that opening sequence It's just like stock

19:33

footage in San Francisco some weird. Yes

19:35

cheesy music, but also just like like

19:37

did like Showtime like movie of the

19:39

week hour corny like music. So it's

19:41

fine those first like the opening credits

19:43

it's like it almost fools you would

19:45

be like okay this is like a

19:47

movie this is like a real movie

19:49

that takes place in San Francisco but

19:51

then it's just all of the door

19:53

work there's so much entering and exiting

19:55

of doors right that was the first

19:57

thing I noticed was just like the

19:59

fix on the on watch

20:01

characters enter yes yes yeah

20:04

it's just as our listeners

20:06

understand the way they'll they'll

20:08

show you an entrance is

20:10

the camera will cut to

20:13

a door the door is

20:15

still closed there's a beat

20:17

then you might hear a

20:19

knock or someone might open

20:21

it and then you wait

20:24

for the person to enter

20:26

right and then they say

20:28

Denny, hey, whoever's in the

20:30

room, they acknowledge them with

20:32

a hey and the character

20:35

responds back. The other character

20:37

response is, if someone enters

20:39

a room during a scene,

20:42

everybody else has to immediately

20:44

leave. Exactly. Everyone for

20:46

some reason suddenly has to

20:48

go, even though they were

20:51

all there for a shared

20:53

reason. Conversations are ended so abruptly.

20:55

Casual conversations are, yeah, the pacing

20:57

is just, is truly, it's lunacy.

21:00

It's remarkable. Yeah, it's remarkable. So

21:02

why don't we start off by like, maybe

21:04

talking a little bit about Tommy, why so?

21:06

Okay, yeah, I'm curious. He is, a little

21:09

background, you know? We should just put him

21:11

on the board, right? Yeah, absolutely. From right

21:13

up. This is his vision. Yeah.

21:15

He is the outdoor. He is

21:18

the true outdoor. Now, this is

21:20

from an article in Vox. Tommy

21:22

Why so was born. Nobody

21:24

knows when. With an unconfirmed

21:27

last name in an unconfirmed

21:29

location in East. That feels

21:31

right. Yeah, that feels right. Yep.

21:33

According to Rick Carper, creator

21:36

of the 2016 documentary,

21:38

Room Full of Spoons, which

21:41

why so attempted to block

21:43

from circulation, why so hails

21:45

from Posenen, Poland? This is

21:48

an origin allegedly revealed unwittingly

21:50

in the rooms recurring cheap

21:52

cheap motif, in which members

21:55

of the cast borrow a

21:57

common Polish practice and stand

21:59

around chirping at one another as

22:02

a ton of cowardice. Oh, the chicken.

22:04

Yes. Cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap.

22:06

Love to say that too. It uses

22:08

it multiple times in the

22:10

movie. Multiple. Yes. The speculation

22:12

that Wyso hails from a

22:14

part of the former communist

22:16

block is echoed in a

22:18

climactic chapter of the disaster

22:20

artist in its sister, who

22:22

was Greg Sistero, who plays mark

22:24

in the movie. He's also the line

22:26

producer. He's the one who wrote,

22:29

who wrote. Disaster Art is the book

22:31

that the movie is then based off. Got it.

22:33

Okay. In its Sistero, uh, relates

22:35

a narrative that he gleaned in

22:37

bits and pieces from Wieso over

22:40

the years of Wieso, growing up

22:42

in a repressive Central European society,

22:44

sometimes after, sometime after the death

22:47

of Stalin, dreaming of America and

22:49

drinking in imported American culture via

22:51

Disney movies and rock and roll.

22:54

Eventually, Wieso bribed his way to

22:56

France, where he began calling himself

22:58

Pierre. According to Cicero's

23:00

account, Pierre may have endured

23:02

brutal working conditions, police brutality,

23:05

anti-communist prejudice, homelessness, and a

23:07

scint as a prostitute before

23:09

finally making, finally securing a

23:11

passport and a trip to

23:13

America to begin a new

23:16

life. Though Wysoe claimed for

23:18

a long time that New

23:20

Orleans was his place of

23:22

origin New Orleans Couldn't place

23:24

the accent, but New Orleans

23:26

makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense

23:29

He apparently moved to Louisiana from

23:31

France to live with his uncle

23:33

and aunt From there all research

23:36

seems to point to Pierre moving

23:38

to San Francisco legally changing his

23:40

name to Tommy why so and amassing

23:42

a fortune selling cheap imported

23:45

goods at a markup along fisherman's wharf.

23:47

What does seem clear from Sistero's

23:49

account of his friendship with Wyso

23:51

is that Wyso was largely alone

23:53

and friendless before he met Sistero,

23:56

which might have to do with

23:58

the temperamental personality and controlling... nature.

24:00

What's also a buttonally clear is

24:02

that why so San's talent or

24:04

encouragement still yearn so desperately to

24:06

be an actor that when Hollywood

24:09

wouldn't take his calls he spent

24:11

a fortune to make his own

24:13

movie. Right. Yeah. Do we know? Where

24:15

have you got this fortune? Is

24:17

that anywhere documented? So nobody knows. Well,

24:20

no, this is right. But I mean, it

24:22

says here, that is a theory. But

24:24

that is not, that's not fact, because

24:26

I've also heard people think it could,

24:28

he could have come from money. Maybe

24:30

it could be a family

24:32

fortune. Other people, you know,

24:35

there are crazy theories online

24:37

about, you know, how he

24:39

accumulated this. Okay. And got

24:42

the six to seven million

24:44

estimated budget for this. Wow,

24:47

man. Wow. Like think about that

24:49

after watching that movie. It

24:51

looks like it was shot for $10.

24:53

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it took in

24:56

comparison to modern times. Academy Award

24:58

for Anora was also shot with

25:00

$6 million and just won like

25:03

five Academy Awards. So it goes

25:05

on to say the best source we

25:07

have for anything concerning the room

25:10

is Greg Cicero. In addition to

25:12

portraying the character of Mark and

25:14

serving as the film's line producer,

25:16

Cicero also had the pleasure of

25:18

being one of Weisso's closest friends,

25:21

having met him years earlier at

25:23

an acting class in San

25:25

Francisco. Yes. Yep. This Clayton. Nailed this.

25:27

Clayton called this while we were watching the

25:29

movie. He was just like, oh, that's a

25:32

guy he met an acting class. Yeah,

25:34

that's totally, in a weird acting class.

25:36

And I said LA, but exam friend,

25:38

that's fine. That works. The whole movie

25:41

feels like an acting class, like good

25:43

acting class or something. Yeah, that should

25:45

be shut down. When Wyssobe began

25:47

production on the room, Sistero agreed

25:49

to help him in behind the

25:51

scenes capacity, but was eventually persuaded to

25:54

take on a leading role. After

25:56

Mark's original actor was fired on

25:58

the first day of film, By

26:00

what so his experience during

26:02

the four months shoot four

26:04

months Okay, it may well have

26:06

been an embarrassing moment after

26:09

another but they also provided

26:11

him with an ample material

26:13

that would later populate the

26:16

film's brilliant companion novel the

26:18

disaster artist right so just

26:21

for comparison like like for

26:23

instance Chris Chris just you

26:25

know has a movie coming

26:28

out fy i plug April

26:30

11th Sacramento all the

26:32

army needs to go everyone

26:35

needs to be there 100%

26:37

just as a reference that

26:39

movie you shot it in four

26:41

weeks yeah four weeks four

26:43

weeks four weeks four weeks

26:46

this guy shot four weeks

26:48

this guy shot four months

26:50

it took him a hundred

26:52

percent a hundred times

26:55

longer Yeah, we're very mad

26:57

at bath. We're mad at bath.

26:59

We're mad at bath. We're mad

27:01

at bath. We're mad at bath.

27:03

So what does this tell us

27:06

why so spent the four months,

27:08

what does it tell us

27:11

about, say, expertise in a

27:13

given field? Right. Right. You

27:15

could do something. I could make

27:18

a table. Right. I can store.

27:20

I can get wood. Yep. Get

27:22

a saw. get a saw some

27:24

wood glue that's all available at

27:27

a home deeper or as to

27:29

whatever if you had the resources

27:31

yeah without the money and if

27:34

you had the money to purchase

27:36

the right exactly yeah the

27:38

difference here though is yeah Generally,

27:40

your table is going to be pretty

27:43

private in nature, right? It's not going

27:45

to be like for public use. Yeah,

27:47

you're not going to have monthly

27:49

screenings of your table. You're not

27:51

going to take a billboard out

27:53

to advertise the table you built.

27:55

You know? Yeah, right. Yeah. In a way,

27:57

there's like, I mean, again, like, this is

27:59

a. under this sort of umbrella

28:02

of like what a disaster movie

28:04

like the LOL hilarious but like

28:06

if I if I remove a

28:09

part of my brain like my

28:11

critical thinking brain it there is

28:13

something weirdly optimistic or like inspirational

28:16

about this movie it's like to

28:18

Chris's point it's just like he

28:20

really wanted to make this movie

28:22

and he wasn't going to let

28:25

a lack of expertise or a

28:27

lack of know-how or a lack

28:29

of craft stop him and the

28:31

thing he had a passion I

28:33

would assume and he was really

28:35

really emotionally invested in like making

28:38

this movie and and bless him

28:40

like bless him for that I

28:42

mean like it's really bad all

28:44

the actors are acting school acting

28:46

class whatever but like he made it

28:48

There's a lot in there that I

28:50

think we should encapsulate on the board.

28:52

I think this idea of like a

28:54

lack of craft or maybe too much

28:56

passion. I think also I think Greg

28:59

needs to go on the board for

29:01

supporting. Yeah, enabling. Yeah, enabling. Like a

29:03

big thing that jumps out about all

29:05

of this and Rebecca reading from your

29:07

passing how we maybe didn't have a

29:09

lot of friends is this feels like

29:11

a situation where no one was close

29:13

enough to him to him to be

29:15

like, hey, yeah, like this is. actually a

29:17

bit of a disaster like maybe

29:20

well yeah and i i think if

29:22

they did do that they got fired

29:24

and and we'll get into that a

29:26

little bit right but Clayton why don't

29:28

we put Greg up on the board

29:30

because i i agree yeah sistero

29:32

right yeah exactly okay i

29:34

also think we can put and

29:36

maybe this will in camps like

29:38

maybe instead of like too

29:41

much passion and we can

29:43

call it like unqualified leadership.

29:45

Sure. Yeah. You know? This

29:47

is from, let's see, let

29:49

me read a little bit

29:51

because I think this will

29:53

be very enlightening. Hey Alarmy,

29:55

check out the alarmist live

29:58

in Los Angeles Friday. May

30:00

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32:41

Philosophy in film says, the

32:43

story to say nothing of

32:45

the technical aspects of the

32:47

film is rife within consistencies,

32:49

bizarre digressions, and undeveloped subplots.

32:51

There's frequent dialogue that is

32:54

both grammatically incorrect and out

32:56

of place within the context

32:58

of the scene, as well

33:00

as behavior enacting that hardly

33:02

feels human. Tommy Wiseau simultaneously

33:04

overacts and looks as if

33:06

he's half asleep in every

33:08

scene. Yes, agreed. The

33:10

sound design is horrendous, with

33:12

much of Wiseau's dialogue

33:14

requiring poorly executed voiceover recordings.

33:16

Incredibly poorly, I might add.

33:18

Incredibly poorly executed ADR.

33:21

Sometimes his lips are not moving,

33:24

but the shot is

33:26

of him, and you

33:29

are hearing a line. Okay.

33:32

The production was marked by frequent

33:35

walkouts and firings, unnecessary expenditures, and

33:37

a complete ignorance of proper filmmaking

33:39

practices. If this entire debacle sounds

33:41

ripe for comedy, that's because it

33:43

is, the room will make you

33:45

laugh until you cry or simply

33:47

shake your head in disbelief. But

33:49

either way, it is difficult not

33:52

to be entertained and mesmerized by

33:54

such a supremely horrible film. Yeah,

33:56

it's beautifully bad. I would put AD, I would put

33:58

the sound, I mean, we talked about this. when

34:00

we were making Harvard-Sillenting videos. It

34:02

was like the sound, or like

34:04

student films or whatever. It is

34:06

the sound that indicates amateur, amateurishness

34:08

or immediate, immediate, and this is

34:11

a. This is a spectacular, a

34:13

spectacular sound, sonic experience. This movie

34:15

is like, there's a scene with

34:17

Peter, the psychologists, where he's just

34:19

un-miked and he's, they're like, all

34:21

egging him on and he's just

34:23

like, they're only catching his audio

34:25

from their mics in the background.

34:28

Yes. They didn't have enough mics,

34:30

I guess. It's shocking. The sound

34:32

is really shocking. Also, um... vis-a-vis

34:34

the so I would just submit

34:36

that to the board I mean

34:38

like just as like a sound like

34:40

yeah exactly and maybe that's a subset

34:42

Rebecca of like the sort of unqualified

34:45

leadership but the sound really stuck out

34:47

to me as being like this is

34:49

this is egregious it's particularly bad here's

34:51

another aspect of the movie that will blow

34:53

your mind this is from movie web Being

34:55

that the room was Tommy Weisso's

34:57

first film, he went into production

34:59

with a total lack of experience

35:01

and little to no knowledge about

35:03

different filming styles. Not only did

35:05

he not know a single thing

35:08

about writing, directing, starring in or

35:10

producing a film, he didn't fully

35:12

understand the difference between 35mm film

35:14

and high definition video. So when

35:16

it came to time to make

35:18

a decision on which format to

35:20

use while marking the room, why

35:22

so decided to use both? No,

35:24

no, no, and shoot the movie with

35:26

both types of cameras

35:28

simultaneously. No, no, no, yes. Since

35:31

why so was the first time filmmaker

35:33

to ever shoot a movie

35:35

using both formats, he had

35:38

to adapt to his innovations

35:40

by purchasing a custom-built apparatus

35:42

that held both camera types

35:45

and required two different camera

35:47

crews to operate. To complicate

35:49

matters both camera types require different

35:51

kinds of lighting and editing because

35:53

of their vastly different styles of

35:55

capturing video. All of the above

35:57

already sounds like a massive headache

35:59

and you'll be even more perplexed to

36:01

know that after all of this struggle,

36:03

only the 35 millimeter footage was used

36:06

for the final theatrical cut of the

36:08

film. Time out, time out. So the

36:10

movie that I just watched, that was

36:12

35 millimeter film. Okay,

36:15

but this will give you a little, even

36:17

more insight. Okay, this is from Ranker. The

36:19

room is a perfect storm of bad luck

36:21

and a lack of ability. This is most

36:23

evident in the dialogue, of course, which is

36:25

overdubbed and often out of sync. Oh

36:28

yeah. The reason behind the overdub

36:30

was Tommy Wiseau's issues memorizing lines,

36:32

needed to use cue cards.

36:34

On top of this, the sound

36:36

crew had innumerable difficulties. What

36:38

lines? Exactly. He wrote that. What

36:40

lines, Chris? You're just making it up,

36:42

it sounded like. He said like,

36:45

they so many times the line was,

36:47

whatever, don't worry about it. Yeah. Don't

36:49

worry about it. Don't worry about it

36:51

is literally with how they respond to

36:54

it, they can, sir. I get what you're

36:56

saying. Don't worry about it. Yeah.

36:58

Hi, bye

37:00

Hi. It's

37:02

not just the sound that's off, it's also

37:04

the picture. The room has

37:06

entire scenes that are out of

37:09

focus. Because no one actually checked

37:11

the camera lenses. Don't worry,

37:13

the uncomfortable sex scenes is somehow

37:15

crystal clear. Apparently, you don't always get

37:17

what you pay for. There

37:19

are scenes that we were

37:21

laughing about where every time

37:23

we would cut to like

37:25

between Mark and Lisa and

37:27

Johnny, where like every time we would

37:30

cut, it was like super bright light with

37:32

that close up and then really dark with

37:34

John. Like it was almost night and day.

37:36

And then there was moments where there was

37:38

that really great moment where I think it's

37:40

like for the party, it's middle of the

37:42

day. Middle the day. They cut to a

37:44

nighttime shot of San Francisco. And then they

37:46

go right back to daytime. It's psychotic. And

37:49

no day has passed. No

37:51

day has passed. No, it's the still the same

37:53

day. Lisa's also at one point.

37:55

She's like, I'm going to bed. It's like

37:57

noon. Yeah, like I'm going to bed. I

38:00

want to say something about this camera

38:02

situation. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm imagining being

38:04

like a person who got hired by

38:06

this guy to shoot this movie, right?

38:08

Yeah. Yeah. It seems crazy that

38:11

you would just kind of humor

38:13

this person who clearly doesn't know

38:15

what they're doing. I'm like, fine,

38:17

I'll build some weird rig to

38:19

shoot simultaneous 35 millimeter and high-depth.

38:22

This to me speaks to like the money

38:24

being like the power in the equation

38:26

and like. It almost kind of

38:28

talks like speaking, you know, truth

38:30

to power or whatever, it's like,

38:32

because he's paying for the film.

38:34

Yeah, totally. It's just like, okay,

38:37

whatever you want, completely. This is

38:39

like very innocent, but like how

38:41

you can, you can get, this

38:43

is where people die on film

38:45

sets when the people who are

38:47

paying just don't push back to

38:49

the people who are in charge, you know?

38:51

But Clayton, and this might blow

38:53

your mind Clayton. of people pushing

38:56

back. Yeah, that's really hard. I

38:58

know, here, let me read this. This is

39:00

again from Ranker. Tommy Weiss so

39:02

constantly changes his mind about the

39:04

film's plot lines, which was a

39:06

point of contention for a few

39:08

of his crew members. How do

39:10

I so gone with some of

39:13

his initial instincts? The film may

39:15

have been inconceivably more ridiculous. Wow,

39:17

we'd love to see the director's

39:19

cut. Release the director's cut. I'm

39:21

going to the disaster artist, so

39:23

the book that Greg Cicero wrote,

39:25

why so briefly considered making Johnny

39:28

a vampire who flew away in

39:30

a levitating car. Quote, it's just

39:32

possible side plot. Maybe Johnny is

39:34

a vampire, he said. He is

39:36

a bound hire. I think it

39:38

will line up. That actually would

39:40

have made more sense. Right?

39:42

A flying car. So then

39:44

well, what did we put

39:47

up on that? Because that's

39:49

just surprising to hear that

39:51

there was put. I'm glad

39:53

that there were some, but like

39:55

I still feel like he got

39:57

his way a lot of the

39:59

time. Yeah. Outorship gone wrong, like

40:02

the dangers of outorship or something.

40:04

Like, yeah. Let me read this

40:06

from rancor. You're, despite the number

40:09

of times the film's editor pleaded

40:11

to cut the scene on account

40:14

of how it scared his wife,

40:16

tell me why so was steadfast

40:18

in gratuitously showing his naked rear.

40:21

Why? He swore the film wouldn't

40:23

sell without it. Oh, his ass.

40:25

In the book disaster artist, Sistero

40:28

claims that why so said, quote,

40:30

I have to show my ass

40:33

or this movie won't sell. So

40:35

that's awesome, by the way. That's

40:37

awesome. That is, that's put that

40:40

on the board. I just want,

40:42

God, I just want to live

40:44

in those shoes for a day.

40:47

Yeah. Just like, what is that,

40:49

how does that, you know, color

40:52

of the world for you? But

40:54

I also maybe put, Yeah, like,

40:56

how would you, how would you

40:59

describe a person whose worldview is

41:01

such that they think success, they

41:03

have to sell their body to

41:06

be successful? Well, this, this is

41:08

just, I mean, the whole. This

41:10

home wreaks of being written by

41:13

a dude, right? Like, oh my

41:15

God. Gertuitous. We have to talk

41:18

about that. There's so much sex

41:20

and the way that the women

41:22

are written are so like manipulative

41:25

and. really like diabolical yes it's

41:27

incredibly misogynistic well it's also like

41:29

beyond she has no real kind

41:32

of compass like there's nothing guiding

41:34

her which is like from somebody

41:37

who maybe was in a relationship

41:39

yes like Tommy was in a

41:41

relationship he says partially autobiographical his

41:44

his portrayal of Lisa in the

41:46

script was his understanding of what

41:48

the woman he was dating was

41:51

was experiencing which is he had

41:53

clearly had no idea what was

41:56

going on well right so he

41:58

just removed any

42:00

kind of like

42:03

what would you call it like

42:05

will or moral kind of compass

42:07

perspective perspective yeah okay let me

42:09

read this from philosophy in

42:11

film something that becomes increasingly apparent

42:13

as one watches the room

42:15

is that the vehicle it's a

42:17

vehicle for wise sows ego

42:19

he plays a successful banker who

42:22

is a romantic and passionate

42:24

lover to Lisa despite her transgressions

42:26

a commendable father figure to

42:28

Denny despite his transgressions and a

42:30

loyal and trusting friend to

42:32

mark despite his transgressions he attempts

42:34

to wax philosophical philosophic and

42:36

tries desperately to

42:38

achieve a cool guy persona that is

42:41

far beyond his reach without even reading

42:43

anything about the making of the film

42:45

it is obvious that why so based

42:47

Johnny's doomed relationship on real events or

42:49

at least his perception of real events

42:51

and that the film's function the film

42:53

functions as a kind of misguided letter

42:55

to his ex -girlfriend as if to say

42:57

quote do you see what you did

42:59

look how terrible you were to me

43:01

the whole thing reeks of a high

43:04

school teenager deep in the throes of

43:06

a bad breakup unable to express their

43:08

feelings in a way that is anything

43:10

but cringe worthy very that very very

43:12

that okay it is sad or it

43:14

makes it more sad to learn that

43:16

it's like based on his based on

43:18

that it's like inspired by his real

43:20

life that's that's sad what's this movie

43:22

about a fight to like describe it

43:25

on one word of like this is

43:27

a movie about a about a so

43:29

Lisa the sociopath yeah there's a woman

43:31

Lisa who lives in San Francisco who's

43:33

a psychopath yeah she lies and poor

43:35

Johnny who happens to

43:37

be her fiance who's

43:40

so supportive right now he

43:42

does his provide for her and love her

43:44

and shower her with flowers yes he doesn't

43:46

deserve him he's such a victim specifically

43:48

roses I did but when I was making

43:50

a little note I was like what

43:52

was the rose budget the rose and I

43:54

was like they could have taken maybe

43:56

a little from the rose budget but it's

43:58

where the ADR in a way There's just

44:00

so many roses that flower shop

44:03

scene is particularly it's one of the

44:05

best and if you can find it on

44:07

YouTube I highly that is It really

44:09

encapsulates it and something that happens in

44:11

that flower shop scene is if he

44:13

goes straight up to the register and

44:16

she She looked the the flower shop

44:18

attendant looks up and said or what

44:20

is it gives him the flowers. Here's

44:22

your thing. You're my favorite customer.

44:25

Why does she say that? It's the

44:27

best paste scene of the entire movie.

44:29

It's the only scene that actually picks,

44:31

like the lines, pick up on another.

44:33

It zips. Everything else has had so

44:36

much space in between every word. So

44:38

cleanly the best point when we were

44:40

watching the movie where he just parks outside

44:42

on a red zone and like what might

44:44

as well be in front of a fire

44:46

hydrant. Hanging out into the street behind

44:48

him on coming illegally parks. All right.

44:51

Yeah. We need to just put a

44:53

few more things up in the board.

44:55

I want to circle back to some

44:57

of these other sort of technical experts

44:59

that were around him. We ended up.

45:01

Blaming Wyssoe's ego or putting that up

45:03

on the board for the people who

45:05

wouldn't stand up to him But I

45:07

also just think we should put heads

45:10

of department up on the board

45:12

Totally Okay, it takes a village to ruin

45:14

a movie. Yeah, 100% I also think a

45:16

lack of appreciation. Oh, we have lack of

45:18

craft, but I think I was thinking about

45:20

this. Let me put it to you guys

45:23

this way I don't know what to call

45:25

this. Maybe you can help me you sit

45:27

at a restaurant. Okay, you you eat you

45:29

know what you like and what

45:31

you don't like so therefore you

45:34

can run a restaurant like we

45:36

eat so much right we we or

45:38

rather we know the experience of what

45:40

it's like to have a good meal

45:42

and so what we do is we

45:45

think or those of us who don't

45:47

have some kind of filter think

45:49

that you can just run a restaurant

45:51

and be a chef it's like skipping

45:53

the you know Well this is not

45:55

very eloquent but like skipping the process

45:57

you know it's like you're skipping the

45:59

edge. Like you don't need to go

46:02

to school to go to school

46:04

to go to school to do

46:06

that or go to ever work

46:08

in a restaurant. You can just

46:10

do it. It's like, I've eaten

46:12

a meal, I could run a

46:14

restaurant. There's a hubris or

46:16

something. Yeah, hubris. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

46:19

Yeah. But also, I mean, more,

46:21

you know, just more specific than

46:23

hubris, I think. Okay. That's a

46:25

great point. you just because you

46:27

want to you can't like build

46:30

a house you would put people

46:32

in danger but right you can

46:34

make a movie make a movie you

46:36

know what it is I feel like

46:38

there's like a devaluing of these things

46:40

that we all agree we love and

46:42

so much when it's done right it's

46:44

amazing but like secretly everyone thinks it's

46:46

really not that hard like we can

46:48

all do it but like because you

46:50

don't know how to like do brain surgery

46:53

you would never just do

46:55

brain surgery you're like no

46:57

that requires real work real

46:59

I think it's because you watch

47:01

something it looks effortless and that's

47:04

why it's so good right right

47:06

right but because it seems effortless

47:08

it makes you think that

47:10

it is effortless i like

47:13

the word effortless here we

47:15

should use that in some

47:17

way it's like effortless effortless

47:19

yeah effort. It looks like

47:21

nobody's making any effort. Yes,

47:23

we should do a rebranding

47:25

of that word. Yes, we

47:27

should do a rebranding of

47:29

that word because that's what

47:31

effort looks like if you

47:33

don't put an effort. Yeah,

47:36

exactly. It's the opposite. Like

47:38

where did we, why did we

47:40

start saying? It doesn't make sense.

47:42

Like it was a compliment. Yeah.

47:45

Should be derogatory. Yeah. Well, I

47:47

think it's also like in the

47:49

performance arts you make it up

47:52

here as if you are not

47:54

making an effort. Yes. Right. But

47:56

in the magic in other like you

47:58

can't tell it. a filmmaker they made

48:01

it look effortless. You don't know how

48:03

it looked when it did and to

48:05

tell it may look effortless makes it

48:07

sound. Like they didn't put any effort

48:09

on obviously. It is such a good

48:11

point like you're what you're saying about

48:13

like act like there is so much

48:16

like whatever like people's tastes there's such

48:18

a wide range of taste right and

48:20

like acting is this funny art form

48:22

where it's like you like it's so

48:24

obviously all art is subjective of course

48:26

but like acting is very subjective this

48:28

person is my taste this person isn't

48:30

but like to what there is a

48:32

skill set. There is a skill

48:35

set but like the rest of

48:37

movie making is quite technical and

48:39

it's like very technical and sort

48:42

of mechanical and like not really

48:44

that like. up for like cinematography sound

48:46

design set design these things aren't

48:48

exactly like oh well that's my

48:50

taste that's not my taste up

48:52

for interpretation these things are like

48:55

fairly technical crafts maybe that's anyone

48:57

you know like they anyone instead

48:59

of anyone can make a movie

49:01

anyone can't make a movie like

49:03

yeah because it really does feel

49:05

like it's a deep like a

49:07

devaluation of like legit skill like

49:09

learned skills and experience that for

49:11

some reason we're willing to cast

49:13

aside because it's you know, pretend. Yeah,

49:15

press pretend. And on the other

49:17

hand, you can make an argument to

49:19

say that it's a good channel. Like, art

49:22

is a great channel. I mean, yes.

49:24

I agree. Better than I agree. So

49:26

in that sense, like, you know, you

49:28

take away the audience and this was

49:30

a effort, he employed a lot of

49:32

people and he put his vision out

49:34

into the world. I mean, where was

49:36

the harm? You know what I mean? Well,

49:38

I'll tell you where a little

49:41

bit of the harm is. You

49:43

can't deny the misogyny that is

49:45

like being portrayed on this. It's

49:48

rank. It's like, it's so horrific

49:50

and you're willing to like put

49:52

it aside because the movie is

49:55

just so horrible that it's almost

49:57

like another element to this bad

49:59

movie. But it is. But that's

50:01

a message that's being put out. I

50:03

mean, whether you accept it or not,

50:06

whatever. I would just say in response

50:08

that that was pervasive all through the

50:10

80s and 90s and even. I mean,

50:13

this is 2003. Yeah, I think he

50:15

is a product of the 80s and

50:17

90s. Yeah. In, you know, a popular.

50:20

cinema, popular television, media and everything. To

50:22

me it kind of goes back to

50:24

why it feels harmful is like it

50:27

just feels like arbitrary how like certain

50:29

men are gifted large amounts of money

50:31

and they kind of just get to

50:33

decide what to do with it. And

50:36

in this case he made a movie

50:38

that was probably incredibly wasteful to not

50:40

only to people's times but to natural

50:43

resources and just like maybe that emotional

50:45

help and spirituality, these people who were

50:47

involved with this for so long. Like

50:50

why does he get to make that

50:52

call? Yeah, that tidbit where it's like

50:54

instead of renting all of the equipment,

50:57

he just bought it. Yeah, yeah, incredible

50:59

waste, incredible waste of money. Like thousands

51:01

and thousands, hundreds and thousands of dollars

51:04

of equipment that, that, you know, you

51:06

rent for like, you can rent it

51:08

for 20K if, or whatever, you know.

51:10

Yeah, the efficiency was definitely not on

51:13

track. Speaking, speaking, speaking, speaking to his

51:15

like mental state, not that any of

51:17

this man, Pierre. Do you think that

51:20

now that it's achieved sort of like

51:22

cult mystery science theater? bad movie status

51:24

and there's monthly screenings and people dress

51:27

up and throw footballs up a screen

51:29

etc. To what degree just in your

51:31

personal opinion do you think he is

51:34

sort of in on the joke of

51:36

the movie now 25 years later? Do

51:38

you think that he goes to these

51:40

screenings? He's like yeah I tried my

51:43

best and I guess it's kind of

51:45

bad and like I glad you guys

51:47

like it at least I don't know

51:50

or is he does I just wonder

51:52

what it are his feelings hurt that

51:54

it's like a bad movie? care? Does

51:57

he embrace it? Is he leaning into

51:59

it? Like I just wonder what how

52:01

he perceives it now? Well, he was

52:04

at our screening. He made an appearance

52:06

at screening we went to. Yeah. Oh

52:08

yeah. Ten years ago. Yeah. And his

52:10

sort of, I mean, I, from what

52:13

I remember, he said something like, it's

52:15

all love. Like he's like, you know,

52:17

no matter what, it was made out

52:20

of love and this is love right

52:22

now. He sort of brackets it all

52:24

under like goodness and love. So I

52:27

think he's embraced his role. Okay. I'm

52:29

not sure he. fully understands? I don't

52:31

think he lacks a self-awareness clearly, right?

52:34

Because literally, yeah. He made, like, so

52:36

I wouldn't, I wouldn't like bet on

52:38

him really fully understanding and embracing, I

52:40

guess. Yeah, because it takes a little

52:43

bit of self-awareness. Something I came across

52:45

I know you guys a big theater

52:47

heads that this movie one of the

52:50

taglines of the movie was I don't

52:52

know if this is upon release or

52:54

what a film with the passion of

52:57

Tennessee Williams I Watch this movie and

52:59

the first thing I thought was this

53:01

is so much like Tennessee. Yeah, well,

53:04

let's put Tennessee Williams up on the

53:06

board. Yeah It was also rumored that

53:08

Tommy wrote this script after he watched

53:11

the talented Mr. Ripley, so I think

53:13

we should put that talented Mr. Ripley

53:15

up. Put it up there. Put it

53:17

up. Put it up there. All of

53:20

these people, all of these artists who

53:22

inspired him should go up on the

53:24

board. Should go up on the board.

53:27

Exactly. But like, what do you guys

53:29

and then we'll get to the board,

53:31

but what do you guys make of

53:34

like. this sort of deconstructed form of

53:36

like media now like call it Tim

53:38

and Eric awesome show great job like

53:41

exactly where the comedy is sort of

53:43

rooted in a sort of like like

53:45

post media saturation point like environment where

53:47

they're essentially making stuff intentionally to be

53:50

like this sort of bad and you

53:52

know what good that does in the

53:54

world because I love Tim and Eric

53:57

awesome show great job me too. and

53:59

you know and then there's like you

54:01

know the vice like so much my

54:04

comedy is like enjoying stuff that's like

54:06

bad TV kind of exactly I would

54:08

say like the fetishization of bad media

54:11

of like bad media or something like

54:13

the sort of right it is true

54:15

like the post I was also thinking

54:17

about Tim and Eric when I was

54:20

watching this I'm watching this in this

54:22

post Tim and Eric world where yeah

54:24

like bad poorly executed media is in

54:27

itself a subset of media that has

54:29

value and But that would mean that

54:31

he was so was in on it.

54:34

Like he did that's what comes exactly.

54:36

Black of self awareness. Yeah, exactly. Right.

54:38

Yeah, he was earnest in his attempt.

54:41

Yeah, I don't know. I'm just sort

54:43

of saying there's like, I don't know,

54:45

this is like, maybe an inflection point,

54:47

like right around 2000 where we would

54:50

kind of crossed over into like this

54:52

kind of thing. And then you can

54:54

even say like the office, like, or

54:57

like, Nathan. And that that is stuff.

54:59

I think it's because To at a

55:01

certain like if you like comedy It's

55:04

like you don't want to see the

55:06

strings and so you want to What

55:08

is that still going to surprise you?

55:11

What's still going to shock you? Yeah,

55:13

it's sort of, it's got to be

55:15

so real. Yeah, you sort of have

55:18

this sort of, you're just... But it

55:20

is a demented way of thinking about

55:22

comedy, because you're laughing at someone else's

55:24

expense, right? Right and whether they're in

55:27

on it or not is kind of

55:29

important I guess to Clayton's point and

55:31

to all your guys's point. We're just

55:34

laughing at these actors for not laughing

55:36

with them along with the joke that

55:38

they're executing because that's not meant to

55:41

be a joke but it feels like

55:43

one jack colossal joke. Yeah. Anyway, okay,

55:45

so let's take a quick break and

55:48

we'll start knocking things off the board.

55:50

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gift. Okay,

58:25

who's to blame for the making

58:28

of The Room? Is it Tommy

58:30

Wysoe? Lack of craft, unqualified leadership,

58:32

Greg Cicero, the sound department, Wysoe's

58:35

ego, asks for sales? Great. Heads

58:37

of department, hubris, truly effortless, anyone

58:39

can't make a movie, misogyny, no

58:42

self-awareness, Tennessee Williams, or the talented

58:44

Mr. Ripley. I'm inclined to blame

58:47

Williams here. Oh my god. Okay,

58:49

so a lot of things that

58:51

we can maybe fold into each

58:54

other, but this is quite the

58:56

board. Yeah. A few things I

58:58

guess can fold into each other.

59:01

I mean, the sound department, does

59:03

that fold into heads of department?

59:05

Yes. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for

59:08

sure. For sure. Ask for sales.

59:10

That's like into, that folds into

59:12

a rice. So's ego. Yeah, I

59:15

think so. I guess so. And

59:17

as does this is hubris, right?

59:19

Yeah, yeah. I don't think- It

59:22

is a male hubris thing, you

59:24

know? Yeah. I like how we've

59:26

sort of approached the word effortless,

59:29

like to sort of shift it

59:31

in my mind. I think that's

59:34

really funny. But I don't think

59:36

effort- That is really helpful. the

59:38

cause of arrest. I think he

59:41

actually made a lot of effort.

59:43

I do too. It was just

59:45

really, yeah. It was misinformed effort.

59:48

Even worse, yeah. Right. I think

59:50

what it, what this speaks to

59:52

though is the lack of effort

59:55

in terms of education, learning, practice,

59:57

finessing. craft, which is up there,

59:59

I think, is a little bit

1:00:02

of a point. Yeah, it doesn't

1:00:04

matter how hard he tried, it's like.

1:00:06

in the larger scheme of

1:00:08

things. I understand. You know,

1:00:10

it's funny because like, well,

1:00:13

it's like, you know, we're

1:00:15

not, we're not lacking analogies

1:00:17

here, but another one would

1:00:19

be if I wanted to

1:00:21

make a pool in my

1:00:23

backyard and I just got

1:00:25

out there with a shovel

1:00:28

and started digging like, like,

1:00:30

just day after day in

1:00:32

the blistering. No permits, no

1:00:34

idea. doing it wrong. Wrong.

1:00:36

Doing it. Yeah. I guess

1:00:38

like what's the point of effort

1:00:40

if you're not gonna like you just

1:00:42

put that on the right. You're doing

1:00:44

it. You're doing it. You're doing it

1:00:47

wrong. Doing it wrong. You did this

1:00:49

movie wrong. Yeah. To me no self-aware

1:00:51

to sort of scream. Like that to

1:00:53

me is like a little bit of

1:00:56

front runner to me in this moment.

1:00:58

Just because like that sort of that's

1:01:00

such an umbrella for like to your

1:01:02

point Rebecca about. Like not listening

1:01:04

to the people on set or pushing back

1:01:07

firing the crew four times over like not

1:01:09

being able to read the room of like

1:01:11

this is going poorly. I'm gonna I'm gonna

1:01:13

stop. This isn't going well. Let me just

1:01:16

reflect for a moment and maybe pull the

1:01:18

plug and that just the fact that never

1:01:20

happened at any point in the process for

1:01:22

maybe we take Greg off then because it

1:01:24

sounds like he did maybe push back a

1:01:27

little bit. Try. And I do think that

1:01:29

the heads of department like they did try.

1:01:31

Right. Okay, yeah, exactly. It seems

1:01:33

like it. Yeah, you know, now that, do we

1:01:35

know why this movie is called The Room?

1:01:37

Because it takes place in that one

1:01:40

fricking room for the most part. Is

1:01:42

that why? Yeah, it was based by

1:01:44

the way he wrote a play first

1:01:46

on it called the room. So I

1:01:48

would have said that makes sense. It

1:01:50

felt it, okay, it did feel very,

1:01:52

we said that right several times were

1:01:54

like the, the entrances and exits and

1:01:56

even how they were staged, felt very,

1:01:59

felt very, you know, play, you

1:02:01

don't learn the audience. Right. Yeah.

1:02:03

I mean, the blocking. There's another

1:02:05

thing. God's so wonderful. The blocking.

1:02:07

The room also just feels like

1:02:09

a big Hollywood in-joke, like people

1:02:11

outside of show business haven't heard

1:02:13

of this movie, right? Good question.

1:02:16

I think, you know, Alarmy, let

1:02:18

us know. Had you ever heard

1:02:20

of the room? Yeah, exactly. That's

1:02:22

a good point. Yeah. Um, okay.

1:02:24

Okay. A lack of craft falls

1:02:26

into, uh, uh, you're doing it

1:02:28

wrong, right? Yes. Yes. And, yeah.

1:02:30

No self. I also feel like

1:02:33

anyone can't make a movie folds

1:02:35

into you're doing it wrong. Yep.

1:02:37

You do. You're doing it wrong.

1:02:39

Yeah, misogyny, I wouldn't blame. I

1:02:41

just think misogyny is like, is

1:02:43

just, wait, I wrote down it,

1:02:45

yeah, it's a move into it

1:02:47

all. It's a vibe. It's a

1:02:49

vibe. I will say that like,

1:02:52

misogyny leads to the idea that

1:02:54

you can do it all. Sure,

1:02:56

sure. Yeah, that's true. So maybe

1:02:58

we don't take it off the

1:03:00

board, because I do think it's

1:03:02

a, it's a. It's quite a

1:03:04

driving force. I like to just

1:03:06

quote really briefly one of the

1:03:08

lines of dialogue that I wrote

1:03:11

down to leave it smart who

1:03:13

says, I can't figure women out.

1:03:15

Sometimes they're too smart. Sometimes they're

1:03:17

flat out stupid. Sometimes they're evil.

1:03:19

So. Sort of a nuanced take-off.

1:03:21

His other, his other favorite line

1:03:23

of mine in the movie, and

1:03:25

probably my favorite line of the

1:03:27

entire movie is when Lisa, after

1:03:30

Lisa calls them, and they just

1:03:32

went together, she calls them, she

1:03:34

goes, I missed and you goes,

1:03:36

what are you even talking about?

1:03:38

We were just together. He goes,

1:03:40

what are you talking about? We

1:03:42

were just to get. Yeah, I

1:03:44

just want to say as long

1:03:46

as we're doing this, my other,

1:03:49

my personal favorite line was one

1:03:51

of Lisa's where she says to

1:03:53

Johnny, at least you have friends.

1:03:55

I didn't get any calls today.

1:03:57

You're right. The computer business is

1:03:59

too competitive. Yes! What's the computer

1:04:01

business? What is too competitive?

1:04:03

Wait, so string those thoughts

1:04:05

together, that makes no sense.

1:04:07

None. No says, she says,

1:04:09

at least you have friends,

1:04:11

I didn't get any calls

1:04:13

today. You're right, the computer

1:04:15

business is too competitive. My

1:04:17

favorite part is when she's

1:04:19

talking to her mom and

1:04:22

she says, I have to

1:04:24

go like, I have to

1:04:26

do stuff for clients and

1:04:28

then the mom leaves and

1:04:30

then the next scene is

1:04:32

them coming back from

1:04:35

shopping together. No clients.

1:04:37

What? She's the whole story

1:04:40

line is that she doesn't

1:04:42

have a job. Yes, and

1:04:44

I also just want to say this before

1:04:46

we kind of hone in on the whatever

1:04:48

it's like What's that saying? It's like when

1:04:51

you're when you're like when you've gone weeks

1:04:53

without If you're a thirst like to a

1:04:55

starving man like a crumb feels like a

1:04:57

feast right it's like with this movie because

1:05:00

you're an oasis of craft The mom really

1:05:02

stood out for me as like oh, there's

1:05:04

an actor like she's doing it like I

1:05:06

was like you relatively Good! You're doing

1:05:08

good! Relatively! And also whenever,

1:05:10

like the cinematography, it was

1:05:12

shot so flatly and dumly

1:05:14

and boringly and plainly that

1:05:16

whenever there was even a

1:05:18

simple zoom in or like

1:05:20

rack focused, I was like,

1:05:22

wow! Oh my god! Like,

1:05:25

like, oh my god!

1:05:27

Two things, we haven't

1:05:29

talked about number one

1:05:31

when Danny gets almost

1:05:33

killed by a drug

1:05:35

dealer up on the

1:05:37

roof and then the mom

1:05:40

school, the mom scold

1:05:42

him and Lisa

1:05:44

cries hysterically. Mm-hmm.

1:05:47

And the other thing we

1:05:49

have to talk about is

1:05:52

the use of football

1:05:54

in the film. And why

1:05:56

are they wearing tuxetos that

1:05:58

one time? Exactly! We never

1:06:00

find out. They have a scene in

1:06:02

the tuxes where they then transition to

1:06:05

them outside to play football in the

1:06:07

tuxes and that's the whole scene. Just

1:06:09

throwing the football. Nothing happens. No information

1:06:12

is introduced after the first three scenes

1:06:14

of them. Totally bizarre. Okay, it's great.

1:06:16

Okay, let's go back to this board.

1:06:19

Um, I, again, I do think we

1:06:21

can blame the heads of department at

1:06:23

this point. No, no, no. I don't

1:06:26

think so either. Tennessee Williams and Townsend,

1:06:28

Mr. Ripley. Yeah, just, they don't need

1:06:30

to be involved with this mess. No,

1:06:33

no. They don't need to be tainted.

1:06:35

They would be so embarrassed if they

1:06:37

were up on this board. Exactly, yeah.

1:06:40

Okay, so then we're left with Tommy

1:06:42

Wyso himself. Yeah, qualified leadership. Just the

1:06:44

fact that that's allowed in this country.

1:06:47

I know, I know. Or just in

1:06:49

our society, you know, it speaks to

1:06:51

a greater situation. Why so's ego, misogyny,

1:06:54

no self-awareness, which kind of falls into

1:06:56

the ego or for sure, I agree.

1:06:58

Yes. And you're doing it wrong. You're

1:07:01

doing it wrong. Which is kind of

1:07:03

unqualified leadership. So, maybe we. What do

1:07:05

we like? Do we like to, you're

1:07:08

doing it wrong or do we like

1:07:10

unqualified leadership? They're really cousins to me.

1:07:12

They feel like cousins. I'd say it's

1:07:15

your call, Raybay. Okay. Yeah. I lean

1:07:17

on qualified leadership to me personally. It

1:07:19

just feels like a little bit formal.

1:07:22

To me. Yeah, it's formal. Yeah, exactly.

1:07:24

Okay. So we've got these four. I

1:07:26

mean, why so's ego's ego? Can you

1:07:29

separate the man from his ego? Not

1:07:31

here, not in the room. But do

1:07:33

we want to fold his, do we

1:07:36

want to fold Tommy into his ego

1:07:38

or ego into Tommy? And are they

1:07:40

really that different, I guess? I think

1:07:43

here's what I'll say. I think when

1:07:45

you. when you sit

1:07:47

and to create,

1:07:50

right? When you go

1:07:52

from, I guess,

1:07:54

observer to creator, you

1:07:57

are calling on

1:07:59

something, right? Like, what

1:08:01

is it I

1:08:04

wanna say? What is

1:08:06

it, how is

1:08:08

it that I see

1:08:11

the world, et

1:08:13

cetera? And I think,

1:08:16

sorry, my dog is on me snoring.

1:08:18

So I'm obviously making a good

1:08:21

point. And I

1:08:23

think what he did here was

1:08:25

put it, he made a

1:08:27

creative effort. And everything points to

1:08:29

when he was creating, the

1:08:31

predominant like driving force was ego,

1:08:33

right? Like all the characters,

1:08:35

like he was always portrayed as

1:08:37

the innocent one, the one

1:08:39

who loved Denny, the one who,

1:08:41

he didn't cheat on her.

1:08:43

He didn't do anything wrong. He's

1:08:45

like kind of an ideal

1:08:48

person in this movie. It's actually,

1:08:50

I got interesting like study

1:08:52

in that. And so I think

1:08:54

the movie, you can blame

1:08:56

his ego because so then we

1:08:58

should put Tommy into his

1:09:00

ego. Yes, that's a good point.

1:09:02

Yeah, exactly. So then I'm

1:09:04

leaning toward sending his ego to

1:09:06

the alarmist jail and slapping

1:09:08

misogyny. Let's slap misogyny. Yeah, exactly.

1:09:10

Because unqualified leadership also falls

1:09:12

into the ego. You could, one

1:09:14

would say. But I think

1:09:16

it is a greater societal thing

1:09:19

though when you think about

1:09:21

unqualified leadership. The fact that a

1:09:23

group of people thought it

1:09:25

was okay to allow this unqualified

1:09:27

leader. Like everyone could have

1:09:29

quit. Everyone could have walked out.

1:09:31

There could have been some

1:09:33

kind of rebellion. And they did

1:09:35

a few times, right? Didn't

1:09:37

people do it? Yeah, I guess.

1:09:39

I guess he would have

1:09:41

just fired them and found new

1:09:43

people. I'm

1:09:45

just gonna call it. I feel like this

1:09:48

is good. Misogyny, you're getting the big

1:09:50

slap. Tommy Wiseau's

1:09:52

ego, you are going to

1:09:54

the alarmist jail. And let's face

1:09:56

it, it's Tommy Wiseau along

1:09:58

with his ego. Right?

1:10:00

That is entering the alarmist

1:10:02

jail? Yes. Or to extract

1:10:04

one from the other. We're gonna need

1:10:07

two beds in that cell, is what

1:10:09

I'm saying. And the ego needs

1:10:11

the bigger bed. There you go.

1:10:13

Well, Adam, thank you so much

1:10:15

for joining us today and helping

1:10:17

us get to the bottom of

1:10:20

who's to blame for the making

1:10:22

of the room. Thank

1:10:24

you so much

1:10:26

for having me.

1:10:28

It was a

1:10:31

true disaster watching

1:10:33

this movie at

1:10:35

630 in the

1:10:37

morning. It felt

1:10:40

like I was

1:10:42

living through a

1:10:44

nightmare of my own

1:10:47

making, so I appreciate

1:10:49

it. The Room has

1:10:51

become a legendary cult

1:10:53

film over the past

1:10:55

20 years. The Alarmist is

1:10:57

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1:11:06

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1:11:08

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1:11:15

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1:11:17

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1:11:22

and engineered by Clinton Early

1:11:24

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1:11:26

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1:11:28

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1:11:31

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1:11:33

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1:11:35

And stay tuned because next week

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