0:01

Hey there, welcome to

0:03

The Amy Porterfield Shell.

0:06

Identity marketing is

0:08

making the argument

0:11

instead of pitch slapping

0:13

your way into getting

0:16

people to purchase from

0:18

you. What if you

0:20

just extended the invitation

0:22

for them to be

0:25

and to become? That

0:27

feels very different. And

0:29

B this energy is

0:31

very relationship oriented, relationship

0:34

marketing, which is my favorite

0:36

form of marketing, and that's

0:39

the contest. Hey, before we

0:41

get going today, I have some

0:43

exciting news. My live boot camp

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so I want you

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to go to amieportefill.com/subscribed

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right now, don't wait,

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amieportefill.com/ subscribe. and I'll see

1:49

you inside. Let's

1:52

talk about my dog Scout. Scout

1:54

is eight years old, he's a Labrador

1:56

and he's the goodest boy in all

1:59

the time. land and I bring this

2:01

up to tell you that I identify

2:03

as a dog mom. I mean to

2:05

my core I'm so obnoxious that I've

2:08

been known to say to Hobie well

2:10

obviously you know I've given birth to

2:12

this dog so of course he wants

2:15

to be with me every minute and

2:17

Hobie reminds me you feed him so

2:19

that's why he wants to be with

2:21

you and I find that offensive and

2:24

I just love dogs and the funny

2:26

thing is Hopi's ex-wife is my really

2:28

good friend and years and years ago

2:30

she said Amy remember before you had

2:33

a dog you did not like any

2:35

animals like she'd bring her dog over

2:37

to my house and I'd be a

2:39

little slightly offended like please don't bring

2:42

that animal in my house. Yeah I

2:44

used to be this kind of girl

2:46

and the reason for that is because

2:49

I was raised with a dad who

2:51

he was raised on a farm so

2:53

he believed that all animals belonged on

2:55

a farm or nowhere else so you

2:58

can bet I did not have pets

3:00

growing up of any kind of any

3:02

kind. And so when I got older,

3:04

I got my first dog, fell madly

3:07

in love and realized, where has this

3:09

been all my life? And so now

3:11

I just am a huge, huge fan.

3:13

And any time I meet another dog

3:16

owner, it's the first thing I love

3:18

to talk about. So there's really two

3:20

identities I have. Number one, dog mom,

3:23

two, business owner. And I think that

3:25

ego is tied into identity. I'd be

3:27

curious what my guest today would say

3:29

to that, but I already did the

3:32

interview. I always do my intros after,

3:34

because I'm thinking, I have a big

3:36

ego around how proud I am of

3:38

my dog Scout, and I have an

3:41

ego around how proud I am of

3:43

the business I've built and the work

3:45

that I do. And so I'm guessing

3:47

ego ties into identity, but I'm really,

3:50

really proud to talk about these two

3:52

things. be deeply involved in both. And

3:54

so I was thinking, how do you

3:57

know what you identify with? Like, how

3:59

do you know, like, oh, my identity

4:01

is X, Y, Z? I think one

4:03

little indicator is, can you talk about

4:06

it morning, noon, and night? Are you

4:08

sometimes embarrassed that? you think about it

4:10

and talk about it way too much

4:12

and you think everybody else wants to

4:15

talk about dogs and business, right? I

4:17

think it's a good indicator of your

4:19

identity. So I'm curious what your different

4:21

identities are. You got a DME at

4:24

Amy Porterfield, I'm just at Amy Porterfield

4:26

on Instagram, really would like to know.

4:28

So why are we talking about this?

4:31

Well, my guest today is an expert.

4:33

She's actually the pioneer of identity driven

4:35

marketing strategies. And Her name is Veronica

4:37

Romney, maybe I should start there. Her

4:40

friends call her V, so naturally I'm

4:42

calling her V. And what I love

4:44

about these strategies that she has pioneered

4:46

is that essentially she's helping you shift

4:49

your marketing messages from buy this to

4:51

be this. So she's changing your marketing

4:53

messaging. if you really can adopt the

4:55

strategies that we're going to talk about

4:58

here. Now this is a longer episode.

5:00

I typically don't go this long. I

5:02

couldn't help myself. I literally needed to

5:05

ask her every single question because here's

5:07

how I feel. If I'm loving it

5:09

and deeply into it, feeling like, wait

5:11

a second, this could make my business

5:14

better. This could help me boost my

5:16

revenue. This can help me connect with

5:18

my audience at a deeper level in

5:20

my mind. I'm thinking, oh, my listeners

5:23

are feeling the same way. Like, we're

5:25

very similar, my friend, you and me.

5:27

And so I thought if I'm loving

5:29

it and getting an education, it felt

5:32

like a college education, like a college

5:34

course, this episode, I'm thinking you're going

5:36

to love it as well. So a

5:39

little bit more about our guest. Like

5:41

I said, her name is Veronica Romney.

5:43

And one thing we have in common

5:45

is she's a former speaker and trainer

5:48

for Tony Robbins and Dean Graciosi. So

5:50

when they partnered up, she worked with

5:52

them, which I thought was really cool,

5:54

since obviously my background with Tony Robbins.

5:57

She's also the author of the book

5:59

Identity Marketing, how to create loyal lifelong

6:01

fans and a legendary brand, no matter

6:04

what you sell or the size of

6:06

your budget. We're all small businesses. I

6:08

think that speaks to us. She's also

6:10

the CEO of Rainmaker Residency where she

6:13

helps business owners step out of the

6:15

marketing seat and develop a high performing

6:17

marketing team. I know some of you

6:19

are intrigued just to hear that. And

6:22

also she's the host of the Rainmaker

6:24

podcast. And there she shares the no

6:26

BS real world marketing strategies to help

6:28

entrepreneurs scale effectively. So we get into

6:31

a lot in this episode so I

6:33

won't keep you any longer, but I'll

6:35

tell you this. There was a part

6:38

of this episode that I wanted to

6:40

cut. The minute it came out of

6:42

her mouth, I thought, oh, this is

6:44

so against what I teach or how

6:47

I believe. I'm just going to take

6:49

this part out." And then I thought,

6:51

you know, I'm always the nice girl,

6:53

right? I want to be polite and

6:56

consider it to my guest and I

6:58

don't want to ruffle feathers, but I

7:00

thought, I think Veronica, my new friend

7:02

V, I think she'd like this banter.

7:05

So I said, okay, I don't agree

7:07

essentially with what you just said. Here's

7:09

how I think about it. you know,

7:12

share with me your thoughts. And then

7:14

she said something now, she's like, tell

7:16

me I'm wrong. And it was a

7:18

great conversation. I think she kind of

7:21

saw what I was saying. I absolutely

7:23

saw what she was saying. And I

7:25

think it was healthy. We might not

7:27

be on the exact same page, but

7:30

it was great to have the conversation.

7:32

So it's kind of near the end.

7:34

We kind of go back and forth

7:36

a little bit, so I thought it

7:39

was interesting. All right, I won't make

7:41

you wait any longer. I told you

7:43

this off camera, but I was reviewing

7:46

my questions and I'm like, dang, these

7:48

questions are good. And not because I

7:50

wrote them, but because I really want

7:52

to know every single answer for myself,

7:55

that's when you know it's going to

7:57

be a good interview. So are you

7:59

ready to jump in? Yeah, you can

8:01

be my hype woman whenever you want.

8:04

That was really good. I will, because

8:06

I have been looking forward to this.

8:08

And I want to start kind of

8:10

at a weird place because as I

8:13

was researching you I realized that both

8:15

of your parents were entrepreneurs and I

8:17

didn't have that experience but I were

8:20

blue caller to the bone. So I'm

8:22

so curious, what are some of the

8:24

big lessons that you learned from being

8:26

raised by two entrepreneurs? Oh, I really

8:29

appreciate that because I, we were talking

8:31

about identity a lot more on this

8:33

podcast, but my identity as the eldest

8:35

daughter to Cuban immigrant parents is very

8:38

important to me. Um, because I've always

8:40

had that mantle or that responsibility to

8:42

make their sacrifices worth it. And I

8:44

know my therapist has told me that's

8:47

not true, but I'm just telling you.

8:49

I carry that because they went through

8:51

a lot. And they started a company

8:54

out of necessity. Like my mom was

8:56

in medical school, her first year medical

8:58

school in the University of Vienna, and

9:00

then my dad was a national trainer

9:03

for a handball team. And so when

9:05

they came over, all of that ceases

9:07

to exist. None of that is recognized.

9:09

You start over, not just in language

9:12

in education and everything. And so. two

9:14

Cuban immigrants in South Florida, like what's

9:16

a necessity in South Florida? It's raging

9:18

hot and humid. People need air conditioning.

9:21

We're going to go into trade. You

9:23

don't need a diploma for trade school.

9:25

And so they started an air conditioning

9:28

company. And I'm old enough that I

9:30

sat front row to that experience. Like

9:32

I saw the years where dad and

9:34

mom both got a brand new car.

9:37

And then I also personally remember them

9:39

moving their office back into the garage.

9:41

and pulling out a second mortgage to

9:43

float because somebody had stolen money from

9:46

them and like just some really crazy

9:48

things that 14 15 year old me

9:50

really distinctly remembers you know the contention

9:52

the fights all the things because it's

9:55

so stressful so yeah I personally have

9:57

grown up in the shadows of entrepreneurs

9:59

I always knew that it would be

10:02

very difficult once I decided to like

10:04

answer the call of the wild myself,

10:06

which happened after I had my first

10:08

son. But I didn't know how gritty

10:11

and resourceful my parents had to be

10:13

until I had to be in those

10:15

moments. And you don't know how much

10:17

you don't know until you're in it.

10:20

Oh yeah. It's a wild ride. And

10:22

I think if you did know what

10:24

it would do, you wouldn't do it.

10:26

You wouldn't do it. Yeah, so I'm

10:29

so glad I was I was clueless.

10:31

It's like having kids if I knew

10:33

what I knew I wouldn't have them.

10:36

Exactly. Yeah, so but then a beautiful

10:38

thing comes from it. Yeah, and I'm

10:40

really proud of my parents. They just

10:42

recently retired after 33 years and it's

10:45

like the definition of the American dream.

10:47

They retired in St. Augustine Florida and

10:49

a beach house. couldn't be prouder for

10:51

them and what it has done for

10:54

me an example. And then obviously I

10:56

get to bring that to my children.

10:58

Now they get to have multi-generational examples

11:00

of entrepreneurship in their lives. Which is

11:03

fantastic. I mean, I love that my

11:05

son has been raised by two parents,

11:07

his mom and I'm a stepmom, both

11:10

entrepreneurs, and I think and I love

11:12

that he sees strong women and women

11:14

going after what they want. And so

11:16

it just makes me really happy. Well,

11:19

let's talk about why you're here today

11:21

because I love your message just overall.

11:23

I love how you encourage brands to

11:25

shift their messaging from by this. to

11:28

be this, something that you call identity

11:30

marketing. So can you break down what

11:32

that means and why it's such a

11:34

powerful shift and really where you see

11:37

business is getting it wrong? I know

11:39

that's a loaded questions, but talk to

11:41

me about it all. It's a great

11:44

question. And so let's start with just

11:46

even defining what identity marketing is if

11:48

you've never heard of this concept because

11:50

it's newer. So identity marketing the way

11:53

that I define it is where you

11:55

connect your brand. so deeply with somebody's

11:57

self-identity, their self-concepts, the way they label

11:59

themselves, who they are, but also importantly

12:02

who they wish to become, that they

12:04

will have a loyalty, a devotion equal

12:06

to being buried in your brand, which

12:09

we have fun stories that we'll get

12:11

into. Now your audience, the people that

12:13

you mentor and teach, are super smart,

12:15

so I also want to take... a

12:18

pause and differentiate what I mean by

12:20

identity marketing versus brand identity. Because both

12:22

are so important, not one replaces the

12:24

other, I'm making the argument that maybe

12:27

one should come before the other, though.

12:29

So brand identity is like everything in

12:31

my control to differentiate myself in the

12:33

marketplace. It's why I chose my rust

12:36

color red. It's my favorite color. It's

12:38

why I have the logo or the

12:40

topography of their brand voice. Like, it's

12:43

my... Gift wrapping. I get to gift

12:45

wrap my brand. I get to gift

12:47

wrap my services, my offers. I get

12:49

to differentiate and showcase to the world

12:52

why this and why you want to

12:54

open this and have this on your

12:56

tree, so speak. That's brand identity. And

12:58

like there are some iconic brands like

13:01

Harley Davidson that you know Harley. Like

13:03

it is such an icon American brand

13:05

beloved oof. But then identity marketing is

13:07

not an external. differentiation, it's an internal

13:10

way of being and defining yourself. So

13:12

identity marking, when I say you're connecting

13:14

your brand with somebody's identity, it's I

13:17

identify not as a Harley Davidson buyer,

13:19

I identify as a Harley Davidson hog.

13:21

And I will then be buried in

13:23

a custom Harley Davidson casket that my

13:26

family will personally commission so that I

13:28

am being buried and remembered for time

13:30

and all eternity as a hog. Oh,

13:32

amen. With the tattoo on your arm.

13:35

When I work there, I just kept

13:37

thinking, I'm working for a brand that

13:39

people put this on their body. Yes,

13:41

literally. Yes, literally. So that's really what

13:44

I'm saying. And so for me. The

13:46

marketing I love market I've been a

13:48

marketer for almost two decades like this

13:51

is all I know other than like

13:53

my 15-year marriage like this is the

13:55

longest relationship I have ever been in

13:57

and I still get the gooseies I

14:00

still get goosebumps and I'm still just

14:02

enamored with this craft But a lot

14:04

of marketing is very masculine energy. It's

14:06

very outcome-based by this to have this,

14:09

do this, achieve this. Think about like

14:11

just how I, even I'm expressing it,

14:13

it feels a particular way in executing

14:15

it and being the recipient of it.

14:18

Identity marketing is making the argument instead

14:20

of pitch slapping your way into getting

14:22

people to purchase from you. What if

14:25

you just extended the invitation for them

14:27

to be and to become? That feels

14:29

very different. I think buy this energy

14:31

is very transactional and B this energy

14:34

is very relationship oriented, relationship marketing, which

14:36

is my favorite form of marketing, and

14:38

that's the contest. That's the argument of

14:40

the book. Okay, so there's two quotes

14:43

that I love. One, marketing isn't about

14:45

getting people to buy. It's about getting

14:47

them to belong. I thought that was

14:49

really powerful. And then my other people

14:52

don't buy products. They buy a version,

14:54

this one's powerful, they buy a version

14:56

of themselves, they want to be. Can

14:59

you kind of drill down in that

15:01

a little bit a version of themselves

15:03

they want to be because all I

15:05

can think of as a marketer is

15:08

dang as a marketer I've got some

15:10

work to do to make someone you

15:12

know realize I want to be a

15:14

version of this so can you kind

15:17

of elaborate on that? Yeah I mean

15:19

as human beings the psychology of just

15:21

who we are we're always seeking to

15:23

improve I mean whether we're seeking new

15:26

food sources new mating partners like we

15:28

are always seeking in the pursuit of

15:30

possession of things for our survival, but

15:33

also gain of our highest selves, right?

15:35

Like we're always in that pursuit. I

15:37

know that I am and everybody that

15:39

I speak to, like we are wanting

15:42

to be better tomorrow than we were

15:44

today and obviously better than yesterday. So

15:46

when you're asking people to belong to

15:48

be to become, you're asking them to

15:51

not be apologetic for being a different

15:53

version of who they are today. That's

15:55

really really powerful because oftentimes like there's

15:57

scarcity and there's fear in that. If

16:00

I were to change, would I not

16:02

be loved by my family or my

16:04

spouse? If I were to change, would

16:07

I alienate my friends? If I were

16:09

like, right? But that's counter productive because

16:11

we want to be somebody better. And

16:13

I genuinely believe that brands that can

16:16

speak to that aspirational reach and can

16:18

facilitate that transformation and speak to that

16:20

clearly in their marketing messaging. Those are

16:22

the ones that will win the long

16:25

game, not the short game of transactions,

16:27

but the long game of relational marketing

16:29

and relational business practices. And so like

16:31

for me, I buy a lot of

16:34

athletic wear. Like I have the Amazon

16:36

sports bras and then I bought the

16:38

$180. I actually wore it this morning.

16:41

The one with your posture? Yes. Why?

16:43

The most expensive thing in the world.

16:45

It's 180 is stupid. It's a hundred

16:47

and eighty-dollar sports bra that fixed your

16:50

posture. Why did I do that? Because

16:52

I realize that I'm hindering my progress

16:54

at the gym because I have a

16:56

horrific structure. Like I have really bad

16:59

hunch my shoulders. I tend to work

17:01

on a computer. Like I'm stunting the

17:03

person I wish to become, which is

17:05

this badty at the gym that can

17:08

lift heavier than I do. presently, but

17:10

I'm always coming out with neck pain

17:12

or something. So I literally bought a

17:15

$180 sports bar. Not because it's a

17:17

better bra than the 20-something dollar on

17:19

Amazon, but because that would help me

17:21

become the woman I desire to become

17:24

when I stand in the mirror of

17:26

the gym. Okay, that paints a really

17:28

good picture. I did the exact same

17:30

thing, so I'm subscribing to this. So

17:33

a lot of times when I teach

17:35

something I love to bring it to

17:37

life with stories like real stories are

17:39

real people, especially businesses that might not

17:42

be the biggest of the biggest, but

17:44

they're able to make it happen because

17:46

my listeners don't have the huge businesses,

17:49

but they're doing big things. And so

17:51

with that, can you share some stories

17:53

of people you've worked with businesses you've

17:55

worked with that have been a able

17:58

to use identity marketing and make a

18:00

difference and make a movement with their

18:02

brand. Oh gosh, so this is the

18:04

best part. I mean, you know this

18:07

because you wrote a book and by

18:09

the way, it's the hardest freaking thing

18:11

I've ever done in my life. Before

18:14

she came on, we were talking about

18:16

her book, just came out and like,

18:18

oh, give it six months till you

18:20

feel normal again. Yeah, my nervous system

18:23

is still not 100% like truth be

18:25

told. So yes, I appreciate that permission.

18:27

Like it's going to take you a

18:29

couple more months. I'm like, okay. minute

18:32

product on stage. The container that is

18:34

a book gives you so much space

18:36

for really great stories. So we have

18:38

really juicy stories of Harley Davidson, Taylor

18:41

Swift Swifties, I mean, come on Barbie,

18:43

her comeback. Like there's just a lot

18:45

of fun stuff, but you and I

18:48

know that as soon as I go

18:50

out and say, oh, Harley this and

18:52

Barbie this and Taylor this, the small

18:54

business owner. who I am, who my

18:57

parents are, right? And we're, like, we're

18:59

going to disqualify ourselves immediately. Because we're

19:01

like, well, I'm not a 120-year history

19:03

of Harley Davidson, I'm not famous like

19:06

Taylor Swift, and I don't have, I

19:08

don't have the budget, the marketing budget

19:10

of Barbie and Mattel, are you, are

19:12

you joking? I'm a small business owner,

19:15

I'm a solopreneur, I eat what I

19:17

hunt, so can I leverage the psychology

19:19

of identity? And so that was the

19:22

really fun part about this container that

19:24

having in a book putting that framework

19:26

in the book is that yes it

19:28

teaches you at any stage at any

19:31

size that anyone can leverage a psychology

19:33

of identity which I'm very proud of

19:35

and we have lots of fun stories

19:37

in the book and we have a

19:40

section called identity marketing legends of more

19:42

small business owners that got to use

19:44

this and put it into practice. So

19:46

one of my favorite stories is a

19:49

company called talkbox.com. She's now

19:51

at this point when you work with

19:53

me you might just become my best

19:55

friend like this is just a problem

19:58

that I might have so she was

20:00

a former client who now has become

20:02

like a beloved friend and we've even

20:04

gone on family trips together at this

20:06

point that's like oh so you're not

20:09

messing around oh no I'm not messing

20:11

around I swim in the deep end

20:13

of relationships right but she and her

20:15

whole crew came through one of our

20:18

identity marketing intensive which is like a

20:20

two-day workshop through our framework right and

20:22

the company name so let's think about

20:24

the company name it's called talk box

20:26

dot mom so who's the buyer mom's

20:29

literally mom And what they do is

20:31

they help family speak a foreign language

20:33

the same day that they buy their

20:35

boxes, a Spanish box, a French box,

20:38

a German box, like, which is a

20:40

very bold promise, especially when you're standing

20:42

against the Rosetta Stones, if you're OG

20:44

like me, or, you know, the dualingos

20:46

of the world. This is a very

20:49

competitive, oversaturated space of foreign teaching, foreign

20:51

language, right? But they are bold and

20:53

they tell people you buy from us

20:55

and you will be speaking within the

20:58

day that you buy because what we

21:00

focus on isn't grammatical correction or even

21:02

like it's not about reading and writing

21:04

it's how little kids actually learn foreign

21:06

languages is by repetition and just talking.

21:09

So they make talking really fun. Like

21:11

you know if you say I'm hungry

21:13

in Spanish tango amo. But they'll be

21:15

like say it like a pirate. Or

21:18

tango amo. And like the kids just

21:20

eat that stuff up. It's fun, right.

21:22

Right. So in the company name, it's

21:24

talkbox dot mom, literally mom is the

21:26

buyer and that's that is 100% true.

21:29

99% of the time, it is the

21:31

female figure in the household who is

21:33

making the purchasing decision. However, when going

21:35

through the framework, when going through our

21:38

experience of the workshop, she brought her

21:40

whole team, what they realized, even in

21:42

the first step, which is the find-it

21:44

step, was as they were kind of

21:46

secret shopping with this new identity lens.

21:49

It wasn't that mom was buying the

21:51

box because she on her own independently

21:53

desired to speak Spanish. She was buying

21:55

it for the identity. of not her

21:58

aspirational, you know, after, she was buying

22:00

it for the family's identity. She wanted

22:02

the family to be Spanish-speaking because they

22:04

had a trip to Mexico in a

22:06

couple months. So how great would it

22:09

be as a family if we all

22:11

got to speak French before we go

22:13

to Paris or speak German before we

22:15

go to like Berlin, right? And so

22:18

as we were going through this exercise,

22:20

it was like this big epiphany that

22:22

was like, yes, mom is the buyer,

22:24

but when we're talking about leveraging identity

22:26

in our marketing, it was really speaking

22:29

to the family's identity, more than even

22:31

mom's identity. Okay. And then because again,

22:33

we're marketers, we do all this fun

22:35

stuff and we get the validation that

22:37

we need to move on to our

22:40

marketing assets, fluency family, that identity came

22:42

forward. It was adopted and like brought

22:44

and now. There could be a family

22:46

fluency podcast. There could be even more

22:49

content opportunities or brand collaborations because how

22:51

many other great companies are in the

22:53

pursuit of serving the family, not just

22:55

mom. So that's one of my favorite

22:57

examples of a super saturated market, but

23:00

they've had enormous success because they are

23:02

literally elevating the identity of the family

23:04

even though the buyer is singular. Okay,

23:06

so let's get really specific here. Tell

23:09

me. Because sometimes it's I take a

23:11

little longer to understand like truly and

23:13

so I got to dig down a

23:15

little deeper so Family fluency so that

23:17

was that's what they're going after like

23:20

what's one way that they did that?

23:22

How did they show up in marketing

23:24

that way? Yeah, so it's so funny

23:26

I just did a training for them

23:29

because one of the big ways that

23:31

they sell is they hit these conferences

23:33

these summer conferences real hard Like you

23:35

have these homeschooling conferences, you have these

23:37

education conferences that a lot of these

23:40

families and mothers, buying mothers, will come

23:42

to to buy supplies for their families.

23:44

And so they were, we were going

23:46

through like, how do we incorporate this

23:49

fluency family identity in our sales conversation,

23:51

in our marketing picture? in some of

23:53

the collateral, how do we speak to

23:55

that? How do we bring that forward?

23:57

And so we did an entire training

24:00

where we took some of those atypical

24:02

kind of sales qualifying questions that you

24:04

would ask in the booth and we

24:06

refrained them by asking the mom or

24:09

even the parental figure doesn't always have

24:11

to be mom, but like even just

24:13

that parental figure who's standing in front

24:15

of this person, right? This representative from

24:17

the company, getting her or him to

24:20

speak of her family. Okay. And what

24:22

is your family life now? What would

24:24

you like your family to be like?

24:26

Well, we want to be closer. What

24:29

a more connecting bonding experience and all

24:31

learning a foreign language together at the

24:33

same starting place? Like just asking the

24:35

questions really for the person that she's

24:37

buying for, which is the family's identity.

24:40

Got it. So once you figure out

24:42

that identity, and we're going to talk

24:44

a little bit more about how to

24:46

figure that out, but once you do,

24:49

then you start thinking. How do I

24:51

talk about this? How do I communicate?

24:53

How do I connect with this very

24:55

specific identity? Okay, so I could see

24:57

it really coming to light. But this

25:00

is why I go back to brand

25:02

identity versus identity marketing, because oftentimes when

25:04

companies are struggling, right? It's a tighter

25:06

economy. There's a lot of buyer encroachment,

25:08

like, you know, things have been, yeah,

25:11

2024, 2025. So what happens in the

25:13

pinch is I think companies, I mean,

25:15

certainly for me when I go and

25:17

speak on stages conferences or association stages,

25:20

a lot of people are talking about

25:22

rebrands, rebrands, rebrands. But to me, it's

25:24

a mess because unless you do the

25:26

work of identity marketing first, then how

25:28

do you know how to integrate the

25:31

truest identity in the company's rebrand in

25:33

the new marketing collateral, in the new

25:35

copy of the website, in the new

25:37

sales scripts, unless you really, you know,

25:40

discover the truest identity of who your

25:42

person's buying for and who they seek

25:44

to become. Okay, so how do you

25:46

discover that? What are we doing here?

25:48

Because I know of tons of people

25:51

are listening that are their own marketers

25:53

in their own business. So that we're

25:55

Where do I even start with something

25:57

like that? Because I know that most

26:00

of those that are listening, they're like

26:02

me. I would love to stop saying...

26:04

buy this instead saying be this but

26:06

how do you even get there? Yeah

26:08

so in the in the book we

26:11

have this four-part framework we call it

26:13

the identity code because you know I'm

26:15

a marketer yes give me that code

26:17

I want it right and it's it's

26:20

four steps because I'm like I'm not

26:22

going to give you a 15-step process

26:24

and I love a good step-by-step walk

26:26

me through it like it's just you

26:28

can't make it too hard to even

26:31

get off the the the pedal right

26:33

so anyway so anyway so It's basically

26:35

the practice of what corporations spend millions

26:37

of dollars doing, which is secret shopping

26:40

themselves. But oftentimes when we secret shop

26:42

our web assets, our online presence, you're

26:44

doing it from a place, I'm saying

26:46

as lovingly, but we do it from

26:48

a place of. ego like what are

26:51

people saying about me what are like

26:53

how do they feel towards me how

26:55

do I look is that picture dated

26:57

oh my gosh I'm no longer blonde

27:00

like those are the things that we

27:02

go through when we're going through our

27:04

social media profiles and it's like been

27:06

a minute or we go through our

27:08

website assets right I teach you in

27:11

the book but also like the reframe

27:13

is that I want you to secret

27:15

shop your brand and if you're like

27:17

have done a great job at trying

27:20

to attract the same buyer that you

27:22

seek to attract to sell to serve.

27:24

Okay? So we're going to secret shop,

27:26

but you're going to do it with

27:28

an identity pair of glasses. You're not

27:31

looking at what they think about you.

27:33

You go aside, what you're actually looking

27:35

for, deeply looking for, is what they're

27:37

saying about themselves positive or negative. Okay.

27:39

So if in the comments, people are

27:42

like, I'm a good mom. I'm a

27:44

bad business owner. I'm a great bit.

27:46

Like, what, and again, before we can

27:48

tell them the words that they should

27:51

use for themselves. Like before we say

27:53

imposter syndrome. I remember when I started

27:55

my business, I didn't know what the

27:57

hell that meant, I didn't know what

27:59

imposter syndrome was, and then you become

28:02

an entrepreneur, everyone says, you're like, oh,

28:04

I have that, now I'm like diagnosing

28:06

myself, right? Right, right. But before we

28:08

give them our language, what you're really

28:11

looking for when you secret shop yourself

28:13

is what are they saying about themselves

28:15

with their own language, not our. fancy

28:17

stuff with their language. How are they

28:19

referencing themselves? Who do they seek to

28:22

become? Because it's not going to be

28:24

always so easy. It's not going to

28:26

be like swifties. You know, like they're

28:28

not going to just say things like

28:31

that. So what you're looking for is

28:33

language and sentiment around self-concept, self-labels. How

28:35

they talk to themselves externally, but also

28:37

internally. So that means we have to

28:39

listen more than we talk. 100% Okay,

28:42

got it. And you're going to be

28:44

sitting on top of a mountain of

28:46

stuff because like oftentimes when you're doing

28:48

independently you're going through all these different

28:51

like online, you know, areas, corners of

28:53

the internet. As a team, you can

28:55

divide and conquer so somebody has the

28:57

red, somebody has the YouTube comments, somebody

28:59

has the Facebook group or the Instagram

29:02

comments or the hashtags. Like everybody kind

29:04

of depends on how big or small

29:06

your team is, but you're basically. scouring

29:08

and you're pulling and you're it's you

29:11

should be sitting on top of the

29:13

mountain of language which is where the

29:15

AI stuff can really help you then

29:17

start to bring it in like the

29:19

word cloud technology can be like okay

29:22

which words are the most frequently used

29:24

how are they referencing themselves but that's

29:26

really the first step okay step two

29:28

okay So using talkbox.m. they found, you

29:31

know, bilingual came up a lot, talking

29:33

came a lot, fluent, fluency, family, a

29:35

lot of that language started come up

29:37

in step one. Step two, because this

29:39

is what happens, we are as business

29:42

owners and I say this as a

29:44

Cuban woman, I am the most impatient

29:46

business owner, you will need. Like, I

29:48

want to execute so fast, but we

29:51

have to prove it. There's

29:53

some fun examples in the book

29:55

where like even like the Budweissers

29:57

and the Googles and these jug

29:59

Microsofties jugg are not companies Pepsi

30:01

Pepsi. Pepsi tried to call us

30:03

the Pepsi generation. We were like,

30:05

we are not your generation. Thank

30:07

you very much. Like, there are

30:09

examples where even the biggest brands

30:11

with the biggest budgets get identity

30:13

wrong. So we can't skip the

30:15

step of validation and proving it.

30:17

The fun thing with proving it

30:19

is like you don't need these

30:21

expensive focus groups because again, I

30:23

don't have that money. All you

30:25

need is to think of yourself

30:28

a little bit like a comedian.

30:30

Because here's the beautiful thing about

30:32

comedians or just like the work

30:34

of improv is like before we

30:36

ever see Kevin Hart or any

30:38

of these like huge personalities in

30:40

their Netflix specials, they were. testing

30:42

their material and their jokes and

30:44

their timing in like these dirty

30:46

little clubs in the middle of

30:48

bloody nowhere like little holes in

30:50

the wall where everyone's smoking you're

30:52

like what's happening where's the fire

30:54

code like right that that's how

30:56

comedians workshop their material and that's

30:58

how they get the validation for

31:00

their jokes before we ever see

31:02

it in prime time. The cool

31:04

thing is I'm not telling you

31:06

to go into a dirty club.

31:09

Please don't do that. That would

31:11

be dangerous. I'm telling you that

31:13

you have free social media as

31:15

a microphone for you to be

31:17

a comedian. You get to find

31:19

what you found in step one.

31:21

You get to kind of put

31:23

out in some polls and surveys

31:25

and social 24-hour expiring stories. And

31:27

you get to use these digital

31:29

assets that are free to get

31:31

validation. So for example, in the

31:33

first one, talk and talking, those

31:35

two words came up a ton.

31:37

And a clever market will be

31:39

like, ooh, talk tribe. Let's call

31:41

them the talk tribe. That's really

31:43

cool. Okay, well, hold on a

31:45

minute. Because when we put that

31:47

on stories, tribe is a controversial

31:49

word that can be cultural preparation.

31:52

So even though it's T and

31:54

T and who doesn't love a

31:56

good alliteration. Love it. Love it.

31:58

It didn't validate. In fact, it

32:00

got a negative response. So good

32:02

freaking thing, we took a beat.

32:04

just to make sure that we

32:06

could prove some of the language

32:08

or some of the names that

32:10

we had come up with step

32:12

one. So that's the proven step

32:14

and we can do that again

32:16

for zero money because of the

32:18

gift of the internet. The third

32:20

step is now that we're like,

32:22

okay, Swift's, Hogs, Fluency family, Smash

32:24

Army, whatever, right? Now it's like,

32:26

why? What does that even mean?

32:28

Like... Alex Katoni is another phenomenal

32:30

example where she calls them the

32:32

copy posse. Like you're not just

32:35

a copywriter, you're a posse member.

32:37

But what does that mean? Like

32:39

when, like I remember when I

32:41

had my kids and I, you

32:43

know, Miles and James, like I

32:45

remember my family, everyone that I

32:47

knew like, well, why did you

32:49

name them, Miles? Why did you

32:51

name them James? Like we desperately

32:53

want to know meaning behind names.

32:55

Like why did I named the

32:57

dog Kaya? Like because it's. Krawdads,

32:59

where the Kraws had saying Kaya.

33:01

Yeah, she's a North Carolina girl,

33:03

of course she's Kaya, and her

33:05

middle name is Playa, because I'm

33:07

so clever, like it's just a

33:09

thing. So in the third step,

33:11

we're giving deep context and meaning,

33:13

so because Amy, the last thing

33:16

I was going to bloody do

33:18

is put together another strategy that

33:20

would be gimmicky and shallow. No.

33:22

Absolutely not. So I wasn't going

33:24

to empower everybody just to start

33:26

calling people stuff. What does it

33:28

mean to be a part of

33:30

the posse? Like if you literally

33:32

go to copy posse's website, which

33:34

I encourage everybody to do, it's

33:36

like identity marketing like. in real

33:38

life. So true, and I love

33:40

Alex. She's been on the show.

33:42

She's fantastic, but you will see

33:44

that they have a posse philosophy.

33:46

They have non-negotibles. They have, I

33:48

mean, it goes beyond just a

33:50

mission statement and values. Like, what

33:52

does it mean to be posse?

33:54

What does it mean if I

33:56

literally tattoo the word posse and

33:59

mark myself for life, what does

34:01

it mean? Yeah, I love that.

34:03

Okay. So that's the third step

34:05

is we're going to tell its

34:07

birth story. We're going to tell

34:09

where you have our non-negotiables. We're

34:11

going to have a slogan. You

34:13

want to talk about identity marketing?

34:15

We won't even get into politics.

34:17

It's one of the best plays

34:19

of identity marketing. ever seen. Okay.

34:21

We won't do that. Anyway. Please,

34:23

please, I beg you now. And

34:25

the fourth step, the final step

34:27

of the code is where we

34:29

get to dress it. And so

34:31

this is the personification. This is

34:33

where you take an intangible and

34:35

you make it feel tangible because

34:37

to be a swiftly or to

34:39

be a hog or a posse

34:42

member, like you showcase your faith.

34:44

We do it when we wear

34:46

across, we do it by what

34:48

we wear, what we put on

34:50

our, you know, what we live.

34:52

And so we want to help

34:54

people personify this identity. And so

34:56

that does take on the nature

34:58

of swag. And like, you know,

35:00

when a rainmaker walks in the

35:02

room, she has a very particular

35:04

playlist because like, you know, when

35:06

Kobe Bryant would turn into the

35:08

black mamba, he did it through

35:10

music. Same thing with Beyonce to

35:12

Sasha Fierce or, you know, Duane

35:14

Johnson into the rock. They literally

35:16

will put music on to like

35:18

take on this identity. It's an

35:20

authentic identity. It's a part of

35:22

music and. wardrobe and a space

35:25

and we bring the identity to

35:27

life. So as if it was

35:29

a walking talking thing, you would

35:31

feel what it is to be

35:33

that. Those are the four steps.

35:35

Would the fluency family, are they

35:37

using that in their marketing or

35:39

is it just a feeling? No,

35:41

they are absolutely, and this is

35:43

where it gets really fun, because

35:45

this is, now this is like,

35:47

you know, marketing 102. So now

35:49

we're taking it up a notch,

35:51

because there's the aspirational identity when

35:53

you're still yet a prospect. So

35:55

a prospect is somebody who's never

35:57

purchased from you. Like they're in

35:59

that $0 to $1 courtship phase

36:01

where like they follow you but

36:03

they haven't purchased for me. But

36:06

they maybe want to, but I

36:08

don't know. Like it's very much

36:10

this like cat and mouse kind

36:12

of courtship that you go through

36:14

prospect land, right? Like you're courting

36:16

somebody to then become hopefully a

36:18

customer and join us in customer

36:20

land. Fluency family is a phenomenal

36:22

aspirational identity for somebody who is

36:24

yet to buy. If I buy

36:26

from talkbox. Mom. I would love

36:28

to become a fluency. family. Gotcha.

36:30

Now what's really cool is once

36:32

they purchase and they've joined us

36:34

on customer land, how does a

36:36

fluency family remain fluent? Well, you

36:38

got to keep going, you got

36:40

to keep using it, so you

36:42

could possibly join our membership called

36:44

the consistency crew. Okay. So do

36:46

you see how identity actually, it's

36:49

fun because you can embed it

36:51

in the front end of your

36:53

marketing for prospects who have never

36:55

purchased from you, but you can

36:57

also leverage it in the customer

36:59

world. And now we stretch that

37:01

$1 to $2.3.5. Real quick. Before

37:03

we continue, I've got some exciting

37:05

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37:40

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37:42

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37:44

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37:46

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37:48

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37:50

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now. Don't wait. Amy porterfield.com/subscribe, and

38:00

I'll see you inside. This is

38:02

great. I'm so glad you walked

38:04

through the step four steps because

38:06

I didn't even have that in

38:08

my interview question. And as you

38:10

started talking, I was like, hold

38:12

on. I need to understand this

38:15

better. So you had mentioned rebranding.

38:17

a little earlier and I want

38:19

to touch on that. So I

38:21

recently rebranded Amy Porterfield Show. Thank

38:23

you. And it was a really

38:25

big decision because Online Marketing Made

38:27

Easy was my identity and had

38:29

been around since 2013. And it

38:31

did well. So some people started

38:33

to say, why would you ever

38:35

do that? And then I started

38:37

freaking out in my head, oh

38:39

my gosh, am I making a

38:41

huge mistake? But I've often said

38:43

that one of the reasons I

38:45

rebranded the Amy Porterfield show is

38:47

that my... audience, they have changed.

38:49

They have grown. They are different.

38:51

So glad to bring us up.

38:53

So when I saw it in

38:56

your book, I'm like, hold on

38:58

a second because you've talked about,

39:00

you know, rebranding and the fact

39:02

that a lot of us want

39:04

to rebrand because we want to

39:06

rebrand our businesses, but the truth

39:08

is our customers, they've made chefs.

39:10

So talk about why that's so

39:12

important. Yeah, okay. So this gets

39:14

me again, I get feistrated. I

39:16

Company rebrands are super fun. As

39:18

a marketer, I love, love participating

39:20

in them. I love consulting private

39:22

clients on their rebrands. It is

39:24

such a fun project. However, in

39:26

the pursuit of our own individual

39:28

greatness, we focus a lot on

39:30

the fact that our identity has

39:32

changed. And I completely and empathetically

39:34

understand that I can tell you

39:36

for a fact that I am

39:39

a radically different human being today

39:41

than I was a year ago.

39:43

the year and half ago, right?

39:45

Like I've gone through some personal

39:47

stuff with my sister and everything.

39:49

Now, with that said, if I'm

39:51

going through a rebrand, what makes

39:53

you think that your buyer is

39:55

not going through their own radical

39:57

rebrand? Of course we are. Like,

39:59

and this is either going to

40:01

be because life is life, like,

40:03

my sister getting sick, life is

40:05

life. Or it's because collectively we've

40:07

been pushed into a collective rebrand

40:09

because of a pandemic, because of

40:11

a stifling political atmosphere that asked

40:13

way more than just who you

40:15

were voting for. Like I think

40:17

about AI. I just find it

40:19

frustrating that when people come to

40:22

me and they are And again,

40:24

I hold space for venting, I

40:26

vent to you, it feels great.

40:28

But like, when I get the

40:30

V signal, the bat signal in

40:32

the air, like help, like, I

40:34

call the V signal, right? When

40:36

I get those distress boxes, and

40:38

they're like, you know, my marketing

40:40

messaging has worked for years, isn't

40:42

working anymore. And I'm like, yeah,

40:44

because the buyer who you speak

40:46

to isn't the same person that

40:48

you were serving a year ago,

40:50

five years ago, sister, hello, hello,

40:52

right? I have been hearing how

40:54

many people are saying, oh my

40:56

gosh, my launching isn't working like

40:58

it used to, my evergreen, my

41:00

live, my social media isn't converting

41:02

anymore, and what if it's the

41:05

fact that your audience has evolved

41:07

or changed? It has to, it

41:09

has to, and so like I'm

41:11

such a proponent of like great,

41:13

you know, ideal customer avatar work

41:15

and I've done all the worksheets

41:17

and I love the persona stuff,

41:19

like it's all great, but if

41:21

you haven't touched that in a

41:23

minute in a minute. you might

41:25

want to have that on the

41:27

first thing on your list because

41:29

I'll give you a personal story.

41:31

So my sister in October 2023

41:33

was diagnosed with breast cancer and

41:35

she's young, she's 32, and had

41:37

already spread from breast tissue to

41:39

the lymphatic system, which is not

41:41

good. Not good. Anybody who's familiar

41:43

with the cancer journey situation. Now

41:46

before anybody freaks out, my sister

41:48

is today a breast cancer survivor.

41:50

Thank God, I was hoping you.

41:52

Watching her identity change, obviously she

41:54

didn't identify as a cancer anything.

41:56

And now she's not only a

41:58

cancer patient, but she's a part

42:00

of the breast. cancer community, which

42:02

is its own identity. I mean,

42:04

you go through these airports or

42:06

these grocery stores and they ask

42:08

you to like donate a dollar

42:10

or round up your bill and

42:12

you're like, no, and then all

42:14

of a sudden it really impacts

42:16

you, very closely, right? Now, I

42:18

have always identified, always, like literally

42:20

my nickname is a little girl,

42:22

which I don't know if this

42:24

is a good thing either, but

42:26

like was Flaca, which is skinny.

42:29

I've never been called that V.

42:31

So what's that like? Well, it's

42:33

at 37 when you're not so

42:35

flock anymore, it's hard. So I'm

42:37

going through that too. But it's

42:39

just really interesting because that was

42:41

like literally a pet nickname as

42:43

a little girl. And so I've

42:45

always identified as a fit person.

42:47

Literally my family would call me

42:49

those type of names. And if

42:51

I'm being really honest, I would

42:53

pursue that identity with vanity driving

42:55

that pursuit. Vanity was driving it.

42:57

vanity was holding the wheel. You

42:59

know what I mean? Now my

43:01

sister gets diagnosed with possibly a

43:03

life-altering, life-ending type of scenario and

43:05

like we go all in as

43:07

a family and it's like the

43:09

most aggressive possible plan you could

43:12

go through. Nobody should witness that.

43:14

It's really hard. In addition to

43:16

witnessing her identity and our family's

43:18

identity change as we figure out

43:20

who we are around this thing.

43:22

What I started to notice, again,

43:24

not at first, very obviously, but

43:26

subconsciously and then more mindfully to

43:28

the front of my awareness, it's

43:30

like, oh my gosh, like my

43:32

identity is changing, but it's interesting.

43:34

I've always, and I still to

43:36

this day, would tell you that

43:38

I identify as a fit person,

43:40

but the source of my identity

43:42

has changed. If vanity drove those

43:44

behaviors, that affirmed my identity, cancer

43:46

diagnosis, what drives my eating and

43:48

working out and sauna and cold

43:50

plunge and I have an app

43:52

on my phone that literally scans

43:55

bar codes of food labels to

43:57

tell me if it's carcinogenic. I'm

43:59

a psycho now. I've gone crazy.

44:01

But that be that affirms the

44:03

same identity, but the source is

44:05

longevity. I don't care, but I

44:07

actually threw out the weight in

44:09

my house, like I don't weigh

44:11

myself. I want to live to

44:13

a hundred. I want my children

44:15

to never witness me going through

44:17

that same chemo journey that I

44:19

watched Valerie go through. Like, I'm

44:21

still a fit person, but the

44:23

source and the why behind my

44:25

identity is so much deeper and

44:27

meaningful. If you're telling me, like

44:29

if you're listening to this podcast,

44:31

and you're like, well, I still

44:33

serve a small business owner, I

44:36

still serve entrepreneurs, or I still

44:38

serve, enter whatever your audience name

44:40

is. That's true. I still identify

44:42

as a fit person. I would

44:44

still be your perfect buyer if

44:46

you were trying to attract me

44:48

into your gym or your services.

44:50

But if you're not speaking to

44:52

how my why and the source

44:54

of my identity has changed, you've

44:56

missed the boat. And that is

44:58

what everyone has gone through. Yes,

45:00

absolutely. And so this might be

45:02

a loaded question, but let's say

45:04

you are the gym owner, okay?

45:06

You're the gym owner. And you

45:08

have people here that just want

45:10

to be thin. They want to

45:12

look good. It's all vanity. So

45:14

many of us been there. I

45:16

have. And then they have you.

45:19

So are these two different marketing

45:21

messages for the same company? And

45:23

is that okay? Because they still

45:25

to both of you still exist

45:27

you're different, but maybe someone else

45:29

isn't and this is why like

45:31

again not to bring up politics

45:33

But this is where you'll see

45:35

that scenario amplified at the highest

45:37

less level possible Because a politician

45:39

whether locally or presidentially has to

45:41

attract one of the most diverse

45:43

voter or buyer base possible I

45:45

want everybody to vote for me,

45:47

but what's really interesting is in

45:49

in spite of the fact that

45:51

they want to like be attractive

45:53

to all, their messaging, it's almost

45:55

like they're talking to a singular

45:57

person. It's fascinating to watch. Like

45:59

I think of the duck dynasty

46:02

guy. But like I do, it's

46:04

really interesting to me how like

46:06

they don't deviate from script. They

46:08

are super crystal clear of where

46:10

they stand and who they seek

46:12

to serve. And even, like for

46:14

example, if I'm the longevity

46:16

gym customer and you're having

46:18

a longevity identity play

46:20

as part of your primary marketing

46:22

messaging, you're gonna speak to me

46:25

100% like I'm 100% locked in.

46:27

But even. former Veronica and her

46:29

vanity would still align myself with

46:31

that messaging maybe at 70%. Right,

46:33

okay. I hear you. I recently,

46:36

I, Amy, I was so sweaty and

46:38

when I did this podcast interview, but

46:40

I recently had Seth go down on

46:42

my podcast and I was freaking out.

46:45

The legends? No, no, I was total

46:47

fan-girling, it was bad. It was bad.

46:49

Like, keep it cool. But the one

46:51

thing that he said on the podcast

46:53

I thought was so freaking brilliant was

46:56

used like consistency. He even said consistency

46:58

more than authenticity. It's a great clip.

47:00

I was like, ooh, controversial. But his

47:02

whole thing was, it's up to us

47:04

to be consistent. And so I would

47:06

say that, like, yes, I understand

47:08

that you would like to appeal to

47:10

the longevity Veronica at the gym and

47:12

the vanity Veronica at the gym, but

47:14

where you dilute your messaging and you're

47:16

going to dilute your impact for both

47:18

of us. Okay, I'm so I didn't know

47:21

how you're going to answer that. I'm

47:23

so glad you said it that way

47:25

because in my business for this podcast

47:27

We want to attract the entrepreneur that's

47:29

been in business for a few years

47:31

or beyond Making some money, but wants

47:33

to elevate and optimize and we want

47:35

to talk about strategies that are beyond

47:37

how to start an email list or

47:39

how to start a website or whatever

47:41

and I've made that really clear with

47:43

this new show. However, I am well

47:45

aware that there are people listening right

47:47

now who are still in a nine

47:49

to five. They've got a side hustle and

47:51

they want to get to that place. And

47:54

I love, if that's you, I love that

47:56

you're here because you might not be able

47:58

to implement everything that I'm teaching. but it's

48:00

aspirational. You know what's coming and it

48:02

gets you fired up. So I could

48:04

see what you're saying that one message

48:07

might not be perfectly a fit, but

48:09

they can get on board. They get

48:11

it and they can feel it. Okay,

48:13

I love they said that. I think

48:15

what you're, I think it's fascinating what

48:17

you're doing and I'm such a proponent

48:20

of what you're doing because. who you

48:22

seek to serve next, their awareness of

48:24

entrepreneurship is magnified. Like, I remember pre-entrepreneur,

48:26

I'm like, I don't know, it's gonna

48:28

be great. And then I get into,

48:30

like, this is really hard, why did

48:33

I do this? Like, you know, it's

48:35

your awareness change, you realize the grass,

48:37

is greener, is it greener, or just

48:39

a different grass? Like, you realize some

48:41

things, like your bubble, your ignorance has

48:43

popped, right? But with that said, just

48:45

because you as a brand seek to

48:48

align your message with an aspirational identity

48:50

that might be a little bit further

48:52

out of my reach, it doesn't mean

48:54

that I as a highly ambitious person

48:56

don't want to eventually get there. Exactly.

48:58

And those are the people I want

49:01

to attract, highly ambitious entrepreneurs that are

49:03

willing to do whatever it takes. So

49:05

wherever you are in your journey, you're

49:07

welcome. Okay, I love that. That's so

49:09

valuable for me. Thank you for that.

49:11

Okay, so I want to talk about

49:14

how do we implement this on our

49:16

teams. So let's say that we have

49:18

a marketing manager, marketing director, CMO, whoever

49:20

it is. How do we help them

49:22

truly understand what identity marketing is beyond

49:24

reading your book, which we're going to

49:27

highly recommend? But how do you train

49:29

your team to do this in a

49:31

way that they're not just like completing

49:33

tasks, but they're actually driving growth with

49:35

it? Okay. Yeah, this is not the

49:37

this is not the answer you're going

49:40

that you're expecting. Oh, no. But it's

49:42

good. I promise. Okay. So it's very

49:44

difficult to empower anyone on your team

49:46

at any level in doing something that

49:48

they don't identify with. Okay. It's so

49:50

funny because I literally Amy got advised

49:53

not to do this, but I'll damned.

49:55

So in the book, it's all marketing,

49:57

marketing, marketing. And then, however, I had

49:59

to write that final part four that

50:01

was like identity beyond marketing and sales,

50:03

which is identity within teams, companies, and

50:06

cultures. I can't tell you, as someone

50:08

who has mentored so many marketers, helping

50:10

them become re-makers in some of my

50:12

former programs. And even CEOs becoming visionaries,

50:14

right? Like I can't even tell you

50:16

how many times some of the badest

50:18

marketers I've ever worked with don't look

50:21

at themselves in the mirror the way

50:23

that it's so obvious to me. Like

50:25

bad ass? Yes. Okay, gotcha. They still

50:27

doubt downplay their own identity. It's wild.

50:29

And I also do corporate work. So

50:31

like I will literally go and do

50:34

a private workshop, private workshop for like

50:36

Burger King. or indeed or whatever. And

50:38

I always ask the same question on

50:40

the top of any private or public

50:42

workshop that I do, I ask the

50:44

room who literally have marketing and their

50:47

job titles and they report to the

50:49

marketing department and they are paid through

50:51

the marketing department. I will ask the

50:53

room how many of you identify as

50:55

a marketer? I just, I won't name

50:57

who, but I just did it with

51:00

a very big company. And... less than

51:02

35% of the room raised their hand

51:04

and yet they were only there invited

51:06

because they were part of the marketing

51:08

department. Whoa. What? What? What is that?

51:10

It's crazy. So in the back of

51:13

the book we talk about like identity

51:15

within the organization is everything. And so

51:17

like even when I in different jobs

51:19

that I've had as chief of staff

51:21

or just being a leader amongst departments

51:23

or whatever, one of the things that

51:26

I do is I try to bring

51:28

identity to the group, especially if the

51:30

group has gone through some stuff. This

51:32

is happening right now everywhere. husband still

51:34

works for corporations. He works for a

51:36

hundred million dollar software company. Everyone's going

51:39

through layoffs. You hear it in the

51:41

news. Like, and so everyone's kind of

51:43

wrestling with, well, where am I in

51:45

this company? And who am I to

51:47

this company? And like, it's really interesting

51:49

what's happening even in the nine to

51:51

five situation in their identity crises, right?

51:54

So usually when I come into a

51:56

leadership position, one of things that I'll

51:58

notice, I'll get a sentiment, more listening

52:00

than talking as a leader. like how

52:02

are they feeling about their role themselves

52:04

their own identities and like I will

52:07

give teams identities like I remember the

52:09

way rainmaker comes from our slack channel

52:11

work when I was chief of staff

52:13

at Boss Babe okay because I was

52:15

yeah that marketing group had gone through

52:17

so much right just turn And so

52:20

I was like, well, how do I

52:22

get everybody to like feel good and

52:24

empowered again? And so I'm like, well,

52:26

we're rainmakers. We make it rains. We

52:28

literally renamed the Slack channel from like

52:30

marketing to rainmakers. And you'll see this

52:33

with some of the biggest leadership groups.

52:35

They'll call themselves purple unicorns, you know,

52:37

zebras, tigers. Like it's really fascinating. Even

52:39

in the book, some of the most

52:41

devout Nike employees will literally tattoo the

52:43

swish on their skin. And they call

52:46

themselves echids, which is Nike spilled backwards.

52:48

Oh, okay. Right. So like, can you

52:50

leverage identity in your marketing without having

52:52

a team? Of course you can. But

52:54

if you're a leader listening to this

52:56

and you have a team, may I

52:59

strongly encourage you to consider the identity

53:01

of your team first? So that they

53:03

are the most empowered to do identity

53:05

for your customers. Okay, I feel like

53:07

that's the most important part of your

53:09

book. I can't even believe you were

53:12

advised against it. I was advised. Yeah.

53:14

Stay away from that. I can't wait

53:16

for my team to listen to this.

53:18

I can't wait. I really love a

53:20

good name. So I can't wait till

53:22

we figure out ours. And maybe each

53:24

department will have it have their own.

53:27

Actually, this is a must if my

53:29

team's listening. Let's get on it. But

53:31

especially for your podcast, your new podcast.

53:33

Like I think about like call her

53:35

daddy and like the daddy gang or

53:37

the 92%ers for the new hides, even

53:40

Kylie. Kelsey just started to name her

53:42

and she's like I changed the name

53:44

like it's just fascinating we're watching this

53:46

play out in real life and so

53:48

with your new podcast I'm really excited

53:50

for you guys to do this too.

53:53

Yeah we got to figure it out

53:55

okay so podcast listeners DM me what

53:57

are we calling ourselves what is going

53:59

to be and if I choose yours

54:01

you get a prize you get a

54:03

prize you get a prize I like

54:06

it so DM me what do we

54:08

call in ourselves over here but that's

54:10

fun I love I love I love

54:12

that you brought that you brought that

54:14

you brought that you brought that you

54:16

brought that you brought that you brought

54:19

that you brought that up you brought

54:21

that up you brought that up you

54:23

brought that up you brought that up

54:25

you brought that up you brought that

54:27

up you brought that up you brought

54:29

that up you brought that up you

54:32

brought that up you brought that up

54:34

you brought that up you brought that

54:36

up you brought that up you brought

54:38

that up you brought that up you

54:40

brought that up you brought that up

54:42

you brought that up you brought that

54:45

up you brought that up you brought

54:47

that everything you're teaching us today how

54:49

do we use AI to like bring

54:51

our identity marketing to life on our

54:53

in our company so I let me

54:55

just let me just state where I

54:58

stand on AI I am a big

55:00

fan of AI I use it every

55:02

single day love it it's not coming

55:04

for my job so no no stop

55:06

like we don't have to fear it

55:08

we control the machine yes amen so

55:10

that's where I personally stand as a

55:13

market as a marketer I love AI

55:15

in fact we give AI prompts throughout

55:17

our as one of the collateral for

55:19

our workshops we're giving away so many

55:21

AI prompts and so many different things

55:23

right so massive fan like as much

55:26

as I identify as a marketer I'm

55:28

not the best copywriter that's where like

55:30

AI is such a gift because not

55:32

only in especially in part one when

55:34

you're sitting on top of a mountain

55:36

of secret shopping findings can AI make

55:39

sense of it Then you can be

55:41

like, well, AI, like, can you give

55:43

me some creative ways to then, like,

55:45

package that in an identity name? And

55:47

it's like, ooh, and it comes up

55:49

with some really, you never would have

55:52

thought of, when you're giving deeper meaning

55:54

and context to whatever listeners of the

55:56

Amy Porterfield show, end up calling themselves,

55:58

like, what's our slogan? What's our customers

56:00

transformation? What's our customers transformation? Wow and

56:02

delight and surprise you so that especially

56:05

if you're a solo per newer and

56:07

you are the copywriter and the marketer

56:09

and the social media manager and Alexa

56:11

customer service. This is where can really

56:13

benefit us tremendously. So I'm a massive

56:15

proponent of AI. Do you think you

56:18

would give me two to three AI

56:20

prompts that the day your episode comes

56:22

out, I can post on Instagram for

56:24

people. Okay, cool. I'm happy to give

56:26

you all of, I have so many,

56:28

we have so many resources, I'm happy

56:31

to give you something. I would love

56:33

that. Okay, so for those of you

56:35

listening, when this comes out, go to

56:37

Instagram. Go to Instagram. Okay, so I'm

56:39

going to tag Veronica as well, and

56:41

we're going to give you some prompts

56:43

to get going with your identity marketing.

56:46

So I love to make it actionable.

56:48

So that's fantastic. Okay, good. So you're

56:50

totally in support of AI. We can

56:52

use it to move forward. 100. I

56:54

did a private workshop for the University

56:56

of Utah. This is one of my

56:59

favorite stories because They're continuing education department,

57:01

which is not main campus. This is

57:03

like all the, you know, they teach

57:05

people how to speak English for the

57:07

first time, and they teach people who

57:09

have discretion or income to go do

57:12

photography in Thailand. Like they literally told

57:14

me when I walked in the door,

57:16

we have eight programs. None of us

57:18

can agree on one cohesive brand, and

57:20

our buyers are ages five to 105.

57:22

Good luck sister for two days. I'm

57:25

like, wow, thanks, okay. But we did

57:27

it with identity marketing and it was

57:29

really, really fun because it was actually

57:31

because one of the results of the

57:33

AI prompts that was the breakthrough of

57:35

breakthroughs because nobody could agree. And then

57:38

again, I won't spoil it because illegally

57:40

I can until they, you know, formally

57:42

announce it. It is so good. It's

57:44

like as good as Nike, just do

57:46

it good. Okay, when will it come

57:48

out? When will we know? Well, I

57:51

have the case study that I can

57:53

always share, but like, they're working, literally,

57:55

they're updating all of their marketing assets

57:57

as we speak. Okay, cool, cool. Well,

57:59

hopefully you're going to announce it on

58:01

your IG, so then we'll all know.

58:04

Okay, so I want to talk about

58:06

something, and this might be where we

58:08

wrap up, but I think it's a

58:10

cool place to do it. So it

58:12

could be so easy to focus on

58:14

what we need to focus on what

58:16

we need to do to do to

58:19

do to do to do to do

58:21

to do to grow. our business and

58:23

I talk about this a lot. What

58:25

is needed to scale? What is needed

58:27

to grow? Especially on this new podcast,

58:29

we're going deep. But I love that

58:32

I've heard you talk about what we

58:34

need to let go of. So from

58:36

everything that you've seen, what are like

58:38

the biggest beliefs or habits or strategies

58:40

that entrepreneurs are doing that actually are

58:42

holding them back from actually stepping into

58:45

identity marketing with their audience? That's a

58:47

really good question. Actually, I learned this

58:49

from when I worked with Dean Graziosi

58:51

and Tony Robbins. He had like a

58:53

not-to-do list. It was one of my

58:55

favorite exercises that he would do with

58:58

his KBB initiative a couple years ago

59:00

now at this point. But it's so

59:02

true because I think, especially as female

59:04

entrepreneurs, I think that we have more

59:06

of a tendency to constantly be adding

59:08

to our list and taking away from

59:11

our list. So I think it's a

59:13

fair question like if I knowing what

59:15

I know now and obviously making the

59:17

contest that a lot of our marketing

59:19

is so masculine and outcomes-based messaging that

59:21

it's really like repelling more in this

59:24

tight economy than it is inviting people

59:26

to be curious about what we have

59:28

to offer. I think the thing that

59:30

I would love to see people put

59:32

down and this is just I'm just

59:34

gonna say it. I am over the

59:37

urgency and the scarcity and the fear-mongering

59:39

and like... I'm just kind of done

59:41

with that, like the fake webinar timers.

59:43

It's interesting because I remember when I

59:45

first got into online entrepreneurship when I

59:47

left corporate, all of that stuff was

59:49

new and it was super effective because

59:52

I'm like, wow, yeah, I only got

59:54

15 minutes to act, like this is

59:56

so fantastic. Watching my little boys respond

59:58

to marketing like that, it's also amazing

1:00:00

to watch it in their eyes because

1:00:02

they're only eight and 11. Now, but

1:00:05

fast forward. People aren't buying courses for

1:00:07

the first time. bought a ton of

1:00:09

courses and they have a graveyard of

1:00:11

courses. A lot of us have already

1:00:13

gone through webinars and so like unfortunately

1:00:15

that lure of never having seen something

1:00:18

is now gone. And I think that

1:00:20

we as providers, especially us who've been

1:00:22

doing this for a minute, I think

1:00:24

we have to remember that yes, there's

1:00:26

always going to be new customers, but

1:00:28

if our existing customers and our existing

1:00:31

audience, even if they've never purchased from

1:00:33

us, can't speak well of us because

1:00:35

they see us doing some of these

1:00:37

gimmicks, that those that if they didn't

1:00:39

make money, they wouldn't be doing what

1:00:41

they're doing. That's going to be a

1:00:44

problem in the next iteration. I do

1:00:46

think that we are going to see

1:00:48

a weeding out as we pursue because

1:00:50

it's just going to get harder. And

1:00:52

so I just want those who are

1:00:54

frustrated because they're like, man, I promise

1:00:57

you if you buy for me, I'm

1:00:59

one of the good ones, I will

1:01:01

really help you get the results. I'm

1:01:03

not one of these ones that are

1:01:05

just shinier and bigger and fancier. I

1:01:07

get those type of tears quite a

1:01:10

bit. hold out as long as you

1:01:12

remain consistent and don't don't yield to

1:01:14

the gimmicks. I promise it will pay

1:01:16

out. I do. Okay, so I'm going

1:01:18

to be devil's advocate here because I'm

1:01:20

a big fan of urgency and frequent.

1:01:23

Why do I want to say frequency

1:01:25

a lot on this episode? I said

1:01:27

it earlier too. It's on my mind.

1:01:29

Urgency and scarcity. Human brain or the

1:01:31

way humans work is that a... It's

1:01:33

very common to wait till the very

1:01:35

last minute to make a decision, especially

1:01:38

something that you might be a little

1:01:40

bit nervous to do, it might be

1:01:42

a little new, you're taking a risk.

1:01:44

So if you're not going to, now

1:01:46

I'm all about, I hate fake urgency,

1:01:48

I hate the fake timers, all of

1:01:51

that, but I do like urgency and

1:01:53

scarcity. So I believe it works. Is

1:01:55

there a way to do it? Or

1:01:57

is there a substitute for it? Here's

1:01:59

the crazy thing. If I don't say,

1:02:01

okay, if you don't buy by this

1:02:04

time, you're going to miss out. on

1:02:06

that bonus and I know, okay, this

1:02:08

is the thing V, I know in

1:02:10

my gut I could get them results,

1:02:12

I know my programs are good. So

1:02:14

I'm coming from a place of full

1:02:17

integrity. You need this, I know you

1:02:19

need this, and so I'm going to

1:02:21

give you this special bonus, it's going

1:02:23

away in 48 hours, you're going to

1:02:25

miss out. So if you don't like

1:02:27

those tactics, what do you replace them

1:02:30

with because people will sit and not

1:02:32

make a decision? Yes, okay. couple things.

1:02:34

I'm really passionate. I got a couple

1:02:36

things. And by the way, I love

1:02:38

this. Let us let us let us

1:02:40

as two smart intelligent human beings, let

1:02:43

us go through this and what I

1:02:45

call like a mental ping pong. I'm

1:02:47

going to ping to your pong. All

1:02:49

right, let's ping to the pong. Let's

1:02:51

go. Urgency and scarcity is forever ingredients

1:02:53

that absolutely do work. I'm not. There's

1:02:56

no behavioral scientists. We'll back that. This

1:02:58

is not a thing for me. Right.

1:03:00

You are correct. Like I went to

1:03:02

the Taylor Swift concert in Toronto. Why

1:03:04

did I go to Toronto? Because it

1:03:06

was right at the end. Like this

1:03:08

is it. She only has Toronto and

1:03:11

Vancouver. I'm one of the last people

1:03:13

to go away. I'm going to sell

1:03:15

a spleen. I'm doing it. I'm doing

1:03:17

it. Right. And we did. Me and

1:03:19

my friend. We went and it was

1:03:21

phenomenal. And I know another friend who

1:03:24

literally got on a plane. Saturday, the

1:03:26

day of the concert with her and

1:03:28

her daughter and stood outside, the concert

1:03:30

is now starting and grabbed last minute

1:03:32

tickets and like made that decision. So

1:03:34

are there these last minute humans that

1:03:37

just, gosh, just lovingly need the tap

1:03:39

to go 100%? Okay. I love that

1:03:41

loving me with the tap. Yes. 100%.

1:03:43

Okay. But I, there's a couple of

1:03:45

things. We need to differentiate. Is it

1:03:47

true urgency and scarcity or is it

1:03:50

fabricated and false? Is it true if

1:03:52

I'm closing the cart for an entire

1:03:54

year? Is that true to you? Like

1:03:56

if I really am. Right. And that's

1:03:58

the thing with you because, well, especially

1:04:00

with providers like yourself, like you have

1:04:03

a reputation for like actually saying what

1:04:05

it is. that you were going to

1:04:07

do, right? So like doing what you

1:04:09

said. So, but that doesn't always like

1:04:11

we, how many providers that you and

1:04:13

I can count that don't, they say

1:04:16

it, but then they'll get you in

1:04:18

the next door if they really want

1:04:20

it. Like, you know what I mean?

1:04:22

So, so that's unfortunately, it's because of

1:04:24

those humans that make people question when

1:04:26

we say it. So let's just, let's

1:04:29

be fair with that, right? So that's

1:04:31

why I think buyer discernment and buyer

1:04:33

distrust is number one. Before highest reviews

1:04:35

when I go to Airbnb a restaurant

1:04:37

I will literally filter lowest reviews to

1:04:39

see the real stuff Because I called

1:04:41

a question what's actually being said in

1:04:44

the five stars. That's a fact So

1:04:46

if you have real urgency and scarcity

1:04:48

like using Taylor Swift like she's really

1:04:50

only going to be in Toronto for

1:04:52

three nights like that it like it

1:04:54

is what it is. She really is

1:04:57

ending her tour. She really is doing

1:04:59

these things like that is true or

1:05:01

the comedian is really like Nate Burgessie

1:05:03

is really coming to you know, North

1:05:05

Carolina on this day and me started

1:05:07

on a love success We're gonna go

1:05:10

see him later. Oh, he's the best

1:05:12

in context so excited or so like

1:05:14

is that true? That this is a

1:05:16

time sensitive time-based situation I and I'm

1:05:18

like hey like I really need you

1:05:20

to understand like this is yes, those

1:05:23

are true things and everybody can get

1:05:25

behind Now with that said and I

1:05:27

don't I don't hear about this and

1:05:29

maybe it's just because it's like to

1:05:31

trade secret e But, and I can't

1:05:33

disclose, but like being who, but being

1:05:36

behind the scenes of so many brands

1:05:38

myself and having worked with so many

1:05:40

humans and so many bigger personalities, when

1:05:42

you analyze the buyers who bought from

1:05:44

you, not in that urgency and scarcity

1:05:46

window, compared to the buyers who bought

1:05:49

in the last hour, 24 hours, whatever,

1:05:51

argue with me that they're not different.

1:05:53

Well, I just have proof and so

1:05:56

I might be coming from a different

1:05:58

place, but I actually have one specific

1:06:00

story and It's only one, one of

1:06:02

my best students ever, Danira. She's my

1:06:05

caramel candy apple queen. She told me,

1:06:07

Amy, I bought like the last five

1:06:09

minutes. I was too scared, too freaked

1:06:11

out. First launch, $60,000. So I'm just,

1:06:13

I hear stories like that and I'm

1:06:16

a believer, but you're saying, and I'd

1:06:18

be willing to look into this. You're

1:06:20

saying, those that bought without the urgency.

1:06:22

They just in their heart, I want

1:06:25

it. They're ready. They could be navigating,

1:06:27

let's say, through my courses differently than

1:06:29

last minute. I'm so scared. I don't

1:06:31

know. What if this never works? Fine,

1:06:34

I'm just going to do it. Here's

1:06:36

what I'm saying. And this is where

1:06:38

I could maybe get behind this. This

1:06:40

is where data wins the tale. I

1:06:42

have seen I've been privy to subset

1:06:45

of data that was very conclusive that

1:06:47

showed that those that made the decisions

1:06:49

in the fear of missing out in

1:06:51

the urgency in the scarcity of the

1:06:54

final 10 spots left 10 hours left

1:06:56

in those moments versus those that bought

1:06:58

without that because they were primed ready

1:07:00

to go. We saw the most refunds

1:07:03

request. And I would say self-sabotage behavior.

1:07:05

Interesting. Okay. Again, this is where it's,

1:07:07

this is where data gets to tell

1:07:09

us the tale. Because will there be

1:07:11

the outliers? For sure. I love that

1:07:14

story. And you're such a phenomenal provider

1:07:16

that just because of one, you'll risk

1:07:18

it. And I think that's really, like,

1:07:20

I hear, I see your heart and

1:07:23

I hear what you're saying. But one

1:07:25

of my. Cautions for newer business owners

1:07:27

is if the bulk of your new

1:07:29

customers and you're still not an established

1:07:32

brand is buying from you in those

1:07:34

windows of fear urgency and scarcity You're

1:07:36

setting these brand new buyers to your

1:07:38

business and brand for buyers remorse which

1:07:40

then ends up hurting you in customer

1:07:43

lifetime value because then they're not going

1:07:45

to tell other people to buy from

1:07:47

you because they're still second-guessing their purchase.

1:07:49

So that's where I just get more

1:07:52

protective of newer people whose brands are

1:07:54

not, don't have the flexibility. Fair. In

1:07:56

our company we have four values and

1:07:58

one of them is data into impact.

1:08:01

And so I just wrote a note,

1:08:03

I want to do this research, I

1:08:05

want to find out those that actually

1:08:07

went through the program did not return

1:08:09

early, that's another thing. If they're asking

1:08:12

for a return, when did they buy?

1:08:14

I want to map it out and

1:08:16

this could be a really great podcast

1:08:18

episode. One thing we're seeing V, this

1:08:21

is so fascinating with course creators, is

1:08:23

that for years, I mean for 14

1:08:25

years of me doing this, carte clothes

1:08:27

was our biggest day. We would see

1:08:30

maybe like 50% of all sales come

1:08:32

in at cart clothes. Anyone who's launch

1:08:34

courses for a while, you know the

1:08:36

beauty of a cart clothes. we are

1:08:38

now seeing that dramatically decline where we're

1:08:41

now seeing maybe 20, 25% of sales

1:08:43

come in on carte clothes day, which

1:08:45

in my opinion means that the marketing

1:08:47

is changing for sure and that people

1:08:50

are less triggered by by now it's

1:08:52

going away because of exactly what you

1:08:54

said I think is it really can

1:08:56

I really trust you and so people

1:08:59

that are not honest online are screwing

1:09:01

me because yeah mine really is going

1:09:03

away but it doesn't matter if I'm

1:09:05

honest or not it All is affected.

1:09:07

Yeah, people are desensitized, right? Just like

1:09:10

we get desensitized to violence in movies,

1:09:12

if we've always seen, is just violence

1:09:14

in movies or the F word. Like

1:09:16

we just get deep. I mean, the

1:09:19

movie that just won best picture had

1:09:21

over 400 plus F bombs. Like, don't

1:09:23

get me started that movie. It was

1:09:25

so chaotic. What was it called? Nora.

1:09:28

I had to pause the movie because

1:09:30

it was the most chaotic movie I've

1:09:32

ever seen in my nervous system. Couldn't

1:09:34

handle it. in almost every quadrant, whether

1:09:36

it's entertainment in our marketing messaging, that

1:09:39

I'm saying. buyer is smarter and they're

1:09:41

discerning as kind they are distrusting as

1:09:43

hell like they are we are distrusting

1:09:45

at this point and so like knowing

1:09:48

that that buyer sentiment and the emotional

1:09:50

palate of where they're starting should we

1:09:52

not then adjust our marketing to and

1:09:54

just like hey I know you don't

1:09:57

try it like I want to see

1:09:59

more marketers and more providers go hey

1:10:01

I know you don't trust me and

1:10:03

I here let me validate you I

1:10:05

don't blame you. You bought the course

1:10:08

that was supposed to change your life

1:10:10

for two grand on a credit card,

1:10:12

didn't do it. You did this, can

1:10:14

we just level? And I think that's

1:10:17

a thing like when the bigger and

1:10:19

I'm a victim to this, I've been

1:10:21

doing it for a really long time

1:10:23

and like when you have a public

1:10:26

persona of any size, like you do

1:10:28

you try to make sure that you're

1:10:30

still attractive and and also like available

1:10:32

for all, but like. I think at

1:10:34

this moment what people really appreciate is

1:10:37

just someone bloody leveling with them. Like

1:10:39

I'm gonna level with you. I know

1:10:41

that you've been screwed. I know that

1:10:43

you bought things with the highest hopes

1:10:46

and then your family second guessing why

1:10:48

you did it and they would like

1:10:50

to remind you that you bought that

1:10:52

thing that didn't work out and now

1:10:55

you're asking them if they could support

1:10:57

you on this. I see it. I

1:10:59

get it. Like just having, if you

1:11:01

were in a, if we were having

1:11:03

a conversation, a conversation at dinner, at

1:11:06

dinner, we were having a conversation, yield

1:11:08

off. So true. And I'm all about

1:11:10

it. Just call it out. I think

1:11:12

I I subscribe to that. I love

1:11:15

it. Let's do it more because we're

1:11:17

in a trust recession and it's it

1:11:19

is time to start building that trust

1:11:21

one company at a time. So I'm

1:11:24

on board 100% Veronica, this was a

1:11:26

great conversation. I was deep into it.

1:11:28

I'm like, I'm learning here. I feel

1:11:30

like I just took a college course.

1:11:32

So where can every first of all,

1:11:35

what's the name your book? Identity, identity

1:11:37

marketing, identity marketing book. is where they

1:11:39

can go. Easy identity marketing book.com. Grab

1:11:41

it for yourself and for those on

1:11:44

your team. If you come up with

1:11:46

different names, identities for internally, we want

1:11:48

to. here, DM both of both

1:11:50

of us on

1:11:53

Instagram. make We'll make

1:11:55

sure that the day

1:11:57

this episode comes

1:11:59

out, we've got some

1:12:01

prompts for you.

1:12:04

So you, me over

1:12:06

on Instagram. But thank

1:12:08

you so very much for being here.

1:12:10

This is a fantastic a conversation. are

1:12:12

like the loveliest. You are like you for

1:12:14

having me. so thank you for you, my

1:12:16

friend. Take care. Take care.