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0:23

Democrat media ecosystem over the

0:25

past the years has been that

0:27

January been January 6th was 9-11. Was Pearl

0:29

Harbor... don't want you to

0:31

be busy, I want your phone not to ring.

0:33

you, I'm with you, particularly

0:35

at this age, yeah, I general, yeah,

0:37

I wish this problem would go

0:39

away. Coleman is a Coleman is a

0:41

psychologist with a very specific therapy

0:43

focus ties with who cut ties with

0:45

their family. fell into it's work he

0:47

fell into when he found himself

0:49

estranged from his daughter. It It daughter.

0:51

was many years ago. ago. He was

0:53

divorced, remarried, new children were

0:56

born, and and when his daughter hit

0:58

her her 20s, she found the courage

1:00

to tell him how she felt about

1:02

it all. it And cut cut him

1:04

off. you've So you've had that of

1:06

being being like, no, no, no, explanation,

1:08

explanation, explanation, explanation, explanation,

1:10

right? So right? been there,

1:12

you know how visceral that

1:14

can feel. feel. Yeah, it's it's really I

1:17

mean, mean I I can swear

1:19

on your show your show. You can, it's okay.

1:21

I've never put a never put a

1:23

on on for... The but now

1:25

at the the time. a

1:27

problem that used to be a problem

1:29

that used to be mostly

1:31

driven by money, fights fights over

1:34

wills, or broken relationships over divorces

1:36

and blended families like like Coleman's. And

1:38

is. is. But a growing number

1:40

of people are hitting the

1:42

block button, either online or in

1:44

real life, over politics. research A

1:47

new research finds many of them

1:49

did so over the course

1:51

of the presidential election. which means they're

1:53

ringing in the new year,

1:55

having cut ties with people with

1:58

with whom no longer agree. to

2:00

disagree, even for even for the sake of

2:02

family. 10, 15 used to be that your 15

2:04

years ago, the idea that your kid

2:06

would marry. a If you were a or vice

2:08

your kid would marry a Democrat or

2:10

vice as long as they feel other, that's the as

2:12

long as they love each other, that's

2:14

the most important part. I But now like kid

2:16

I don't want my kid marrying people

2:18

from that party. They're bad, they're evil,

2:20

they're terrible. And so so a very

2:23

tragic moment moment though we're in. I'm

2:31

Audie Cornish, and on this episode

2:33

of The we're going to

2:35

talk about why some people are

2:37

putting politics over family, how generational

2:39

differences can play a part in

2:42

broken family ties, a and what

2:44

to do if you find yourself

2:46

on either side of an estrangement. an

2:48

Stay with us. with us. What

2:58

does the political estrangement look

3:00

like? One of the things

3:02

I noted in the

3:04

study was saying was them

3:06

on social media. on social I

3:08

remember thinking, remember that's not

3:10

that bad. that's not that because

3:12

I'm like not that

3:14

attached to social media, know

3:16

what I mean? Let's

3:18

just say my Facebook pages

3:20

are probably dormant. pages are probably

3:22

dormant for a lot of

3:24

other people, that is

3:26

their lifeline to their communities.

3:28

What are the other

3:30

little ways of ways someone

3:32

out? out? Well, yeah, a lot of the

3:34

a lot of the parents

3:36

that I work with,

3:38

not only social media, it's

3:40

also cell phone, it's the it's

3:42

the ability to text the

3:44

child. I've had grandparents

3:46

drop off packages or packages door

3:48

things at the front door

3:50

and then get a

3:52

very angry letter my you're

3:54

crossing my boundaries. do And

3:56

if you do it going to

3:58

I'm going to file

4:00

a restraining order against you.

4:03

And these are not

4:05

crazy abusive parents or grandparents.

4:07

There parents who have had

4:09

political differences with their

4:11

child. And the child has

4:13

set a limit that

4:15

they don't want to have

4:17

them in their lives. to

4:19

And They're have them in their lives, and

4:21

so really exacting that limit

4:23

in a very dramatic

4:25

way as far as I'm

4:27

concerned. I'm concerned. What other aspect have you

4:29

come to understand about what it's like for these

4:31

people to try and mend the relationships? Do they

4:33

even feel that's possible by the time they're done

4:35

working with you? Well, some do some donor depends

4:37

on how receptive the adult child is. So I

4:39

always had parents start by writing a letter of

4:41

amends to the adult child, where they start off

4:43

by saying, I know you wouldn't cut off contact

4:45

with me unless you felt like it was the

4:47

healthiest thing for you to do. how the parent

4:49

might not feel like it's the healthiest thing for

4:51

the child to do. But that's what the child

4:53

feels. What's it like trying to convince those parents

4:55

to write that sentence though, right? Like if fundamentally

4:57

they're like, I didn't do anything wrong, these kids

4:59

are crazy. You're asking them to do something, right?

5:01

And then if it comes off as hollow, it

5:03

backfires. So are you actually trying to convince them

5:05

of this? Or have you just like adopted a

5:07

certain language that you know can be effective? were

5:09

a good parent and raised a child with opportunities

5:11

that you wish somebody had given you. And your

5:13

child could reasonably feel like you missed something different

5:16

that they wish you had done something different. And

5:18

sort of getting into the rightness and the wrongness

5:20

of it is always going to be a fool's

5:22

errand. You're never going to get your child back

5:24

if you do that. There's always something there worth

5:26

empathizing with. And the goal is to find the

5:28

kernel of truth, if not the bushel of truth,

5:30

the child's complaints and to be kind of wedded

5:32

to that. to say, well, it's clear that I

5:34

have blind spots, that I don't have a better

5:36

understanding of why you need to do this. So

5:38

what I always tell parents is, look, this is

5:40

about humility. It's not about humiliation. My goal isn't

5:42

to make you prostate yourself in front of your

5:44

child and say you were a terrible parent or

5:46

a terrible parent or a terrible person, but you

5:48

have to find a way to see why your

5:50

child is doing what they're doing, or you're never

5:52

going to get anywhere. And to your point of

5:54

entry. One of the reasons why I'm asking you

5:56

this is because you describe the idea of being

5:58

defensive. during your own estrangement,

6:00

right? right? So you've

6:02

had that experience of being

6:04

like, No, no, no,

6:06

no, no. Explanation, explanation, explanation, right? So

6:09

like, you've been there, you know how

6:11

visceral that can feel. Yeah, it's really,

6:13

I mean, I hope I can

6:15

swear on your show. You can,

6:17

it's okay. But,

6:20

I mean, I'm glad you said it that way

6:22

because I just, you

6:24

know, one of the things about being a

6:26

parent, and I'm a parent to a

6:28

very small child, is literally, you're

6:31

spending decades being

6:33

the person who is right. Eat

6:35

the snack now, eat this kind

6:37

of snack, like everything is around

6:40

you ushering them into personhood. And

6:42

the idea that like once they

6:44

come into that personhood and they

6:46

look at you and say, actually,

6:48

you really messed me up in

6:50

a lot of ways, you know?

6:52

And And like I feel like

6:54

that defensiveness is so deeply ingrained.

6:56

in older relatives. Yeah, it's

6:58

human nature, particularly for

7:00

any compounded by politics. Well,

7:03

right. Yeah. Which for a lot of

7:05

parents feel like, particularly older generations feel like,

7:07

politics feel are you're to cut me off

7:09

over that. You know, I didn't abuse

7:11

you. I gave you a good, decent, loving

7:13

childhood and you have had opportunities I've

7:15

never had and you're going to cut me

7:17

off because I voted for the party

7:19

that you didn't like. But yeah, I know

7:21

it's humiliating for a parent to hear

7:23

from their adult child. You failed me. You

7:25

hear hurt me. You neglected me. You traumatized

7:27

me. You emotionally abused me. And part

7:29

of it has to do with the language

7:31

of therapy. It empowers the younger generation

7:33

to make claims about their childhood or

7:35

who the parent is in ways that

7:37

are very hard for the parent to

7:39

completely defend themselves against? All right,

7:42

so I went swimming in the reddits to

7:45

find the flip side of

7:47

all those young people in

7:49

particular who said, I've

7:51

cut my parent out of my life. There's

7:54

the world of that, which is

7:56

like my parents a narcissist, my parent

7:58

has actually been. Emotionally abusive to

8:00

me in ways that they

8:03

will not acknowledge for a variety

8:05

of reasons reasons. may not have

8:07

noticed And that's what they noticed, and

8:09

then there is this world

8:11

creeping in there this world political ideology

8:13

political The reason why I wanna

8:16

bring this up this because you, you,

8:18

right, by definition, are hearing are

8:20

one side of the couch. the

8:22

couch. So for for example, let's say

8:24

and you and your daughter, another

8:26

another time, many decades she would have gone

8:28

would have gone through her

8:30

whole life and not said anything

8:32

to you because you're the

8:34

father, Because you're And her place in

8:36

her your family dynamic wasn't hers

8:38

to discuss with you. That

8:40

was part of our society, of

8:42

where women were in that right, where

8:44

and you were perfectly

8:46

within your you were to

8:49

be dismissive, defensive, uninterested in

8:51

how the family is shaped.

8:53

is in this new dynamic,

8:55

she could do that. She

8:57

could have that that. with you.

8:59

have that As it applies

9:01

to politics, I wonder if

9:03

there's something similar, meaning wonder can

9:05

now something similar, meaning you can now

9:07

the language to approach a parent and

9:10

say. a You know, when

9:12

you use that term or that

9:14

slur that slur or this idea. this idea,

9:16

values-wise, this this doesn't work

9:18

for me, me. Right? Like, and they

9:20

they can approach them in

9:22

a way. just that just wasn't

9:24

possible before. I think I think

9:27

that's absolutely true. I think that

9:29

the younger generations are having more more

9:31

therapy than were steeped in therapeutic

9:33

narratives narratives, and also families have become much

9:35

more, more, children just have more

9:37

power to give feedback to their

9:39

parents than than say, I might have given

9:42

to my parents at a at a

9:44

age and perhaps perhaps you as have more

9:46

inputs, right? inputs, right? you don't actually

9:48

have to be on a college

9:50

campus to, for instance, to, for instance, take

9:52

in... language about current

9:54

events and politics, right,

9:56

and that you can then then be

9:58

on a level. conversation with your

10:00

parent that in the past you could

10:03

not when like dad came home and

10:05

held the newspaper right or like took

10:07

it with him on the train like

10:10

your in the world in this in

10:12

a more fuller capacity you have more

10:14

tools to have a conversation with them.

10:16

Right, and I think that's the good

10:19

news of this moment. I see there's

10:21

a good news bad news. The good

10:23

news of this moment is that younger

10:25

generations are more equipped both through therapy

10:28

and the language of therapy and social

10:30

media. in all the various ways to

10:32

get information to approach their parent and

10:35

have a conversation that's more based on

10:37

a more among equals in ways that

10:39

earlier generations couldn't have and I think

10:41

that it's also an opportunity to have

10:44

a much more close intimate relationship than

10:46

say earlier generations might have had. And

10:48

are ready for, right? Because if someone

10:50

comes at you and you're like, well,

10:53

but we're not equals. You know what

10:55

I mean? Like, it feels like that

10:57

is that point of tension you mentioned

11:00

earlier. that is the biggest point of

11:02

tension that older generations don't haven't really

11:04

gotten the The message quite yet that

11:06

using the older language of you have

11:09

to respect me and you owe me

11:11

and this is your duty to me

11:13

and this is the way that you

11:15

show your respect for me, that doesn't

11:18

sale anymore. Younger generations basically aren't having

11:20

that. And they're calling that emotional abuse,

11:22

which is even more mystifying to the

11:24

parents. So yes, on politics, adult children

11:27

are much more empowered to be able

11:29

to say, well, I don't share your

11:31

values. And the people that you like

11:34

that you vote for it. You may

11:36

just say that you always vote repop.

11:38

but to me, this guy's a fascist,

11:40

and I won't have him in my

11:43

house, and I won't have him be

11:45

around my children. Ideally, people have these

11:47

conversations in a more respectful, calm way.

11:49

They often don't go that way, not

11:52

only outside of families, but within families.

11:54

But ideally, you can have a conversation

11:56

with anybody if it's come from a

11:59

position of respect. back in a back in a minute. this

12:01

is Kara Swisher you might have heard on

12:03

this this is Cara Swisher. You

12:05

might have heard me on the assignment

12:08

with and if you like that and if

12:10

you like that conversation, you might

12:12

also like my show, On New Swisher,

12:14

from New York Magazine and Vox If

12:16

you're If you're looking for smart,

12:18

substantive conversations, check out out Cara Swisher

12:20

wherever you get your podcasts. podcasts. One

12:24

One of the things I've often

12:26

wrestled with wrestled are generational shifts

12:29

in social in social in values, in

12:31

values, right? we treat we Americans is

12:33

different. How we treat gay

12:35

Americans. is different. treat gay that

12:37

families can be caught

12:39

in those shifts. can be caught in

12:42

those shifts, kids speak

12:44

up. up. How do do you talk

12:46

about that in a family dynamic? Because

12:48

I think about maybe interracial couples,

12:50

which was legalized in what, in 1967, in

12:52

what, 1968, with the Loving case. Those were, there there

12:54

were a lot of families that

12:56

had conversations that were like, were you're

12:58

not seeing these grandkids. And I

13:01

look back and think they were right. know what

13:03

know what I mean? Like hard for me

13:05

to have sympathy, thinking of

13:07

these stories. And over and over

13:09

again, as I read into this,

13:11

there were a lot of young

13:13

people, a lot around LGBT issues. around LGBT

13:15

issues, issues they did feel like it

13:17

wasn't just a value thing,

13:20

they felt like like that the

13:22

of things of things their parents

13:24

were still about. about we're

13:27

like actually fundamentally immoral in

13:29

some ways and that some ways and

13:31

that me understand. help me

13:33

understand Like what do you even advise?

13:35

How do you think about that? that? Yeah.

13:38

I kind of share that. I kind of share that.

13:40

I mean, I of of my sons is gay.

13:42

I was thinking, my parents were very supportive

13:44

when he came out. He's an adult came

13:46

out, he's an But I was thinking the other

13:48

day, well, if they hadn't been, know,

13:50

if they had been really critical of him,

13:52

if they'd been time he was over, they said

13:54

something like every whatever. was over, Or something they

13:57

didn't think was hostile. whatever they didn't But is.

13:59

Yeah. Or just is. and sensitive, it would

14:01

have been harder for me to support

14:03

him spending time around them or me

14:05

even bringing him around them that that's

14:07

what they were going to do. But

14:09

I would hope that I would have

14:11

been able to take some time to

14:13

try to educate them and get them

14:15

kind of up to speed because I

14:17

think a certain, you know, there's a

14:20

certain amount of kind of naivety that

14:22

it doesn't always just hate that animates

14:24

these conversations. Sometimes it's just people need

14:26

to be educated and people are better

14:28

educated through a kind approach initially. Now

14:30

maybe that won't work. Not everybody's persuaded.

14:32

I would hope that I could. would

14:34

be very provocative if you have a

14:36

child and your parents are taking a

14:38

perspective that you know is very hurtful

14:41

to them and their identity and self -esteem.

14:43

I would hope that I could start

14:45

out from a position of calmness and

14:47

kindness to try to educate them because

14:49

I think it's the only way anybody

14:51

gets educated. People don't get educated through

14:53

contempt and anger and criticism. Then

14:56

what's the kind of

14:58

mental checklist you have for

15:00

when do I need

15:02

to actually step away from

15:04

my relative? Especially

15:07

around these kinds of things we're

15:09

talking about, right? Those little actions that

15:11

are undermining your values. This is

15:13

kind of the flip side, right? Conversation

15:16

we had earlier. Do you actually

15:18

think about what goes into that decision?

15:20

What should go into that decision?

15:22

Yeah, no. I think about it a

15:24

lot because of the adult children

15:26

in my practice who are considering it.

15:28

We have to sort of go

15:31

through it. Dude diligence has to be

15:33

done on both sides. What does

15:35

that mean though for a normal person?

15:37

Is that like extra pancakes? Is

15:39

that right? So you're sitting down with

15:41

them and you're like, let's

15:44

actually break this down before you make this

15:46

decision. Have you A, B, and C? What

15:48

are the A, B, and C? Yeah, A, B,

15:50

and Cs are you approach the parent and

15:52

you say, look, I'm going to have a C?

15:54

conversation with you. There's a lot of things

15:56

about you as a parent that I like

15:58

or value that contributed to my... well-being around around, to know

16:01

but I'd need you to know and there's

16:03

something in the way that you communicate that I

16:05

find really hurtful and offensive and problematic, you

16:07

and I need you to work on that, and

16:09

I need you to be on to working on

16:11

it. about that I give you some feedback about

16:13

that? You know, if you have an old

16:15

school parent, they may go, no, you can't give

16:17

me feedback about what are you talking about,

16:19

I actually well, look, I actually need to have

16:21

the freedom that. Yeah, sounds like you're hearing from

16:23

HR. from HR. I'm not picking on you, but do you know what I mean?

16:25

not picking on you, but do you know

16:27

what I mean? Like I could feel some parents

16:30

listening. this and cringing like your kid

16:32

coming to you basically kind of like of like,

16:34

we need to have a conversation about your

16:36

communication style. communication style. Well, I I mean there

16:38

are only so many ways to have a

16:40

good conversation. But those

16:42

But political terms now

16:44

terms now, problematic. is considered a

16:46

a wokism. You you know what I

16:48

mean? So it feels like feels like that

16:50

political is hard. hard. I keep keep interrupting. No, it's No,

16:52

it's it's No, it's important. the Yeah, the political

16:55

conversations are probably the most difficult, but you

16:57

could just say, look, when you talk like

16:59

this, it makes me not want to spend

17:01

time around you, that we have really different

17:03

values around this. I understand you came to

17:05

your you came to because of your life experiences. life

17:07

I've come to it around mine, and I

17:09

really need you to to me about to me

17:12

about it in a different way, and particularly

17:14

around my children, talk to my children about

17:16

it in a different way, it in a and then

17:18

and then you know, give them some time to work

17:20

on it, I don't think don't think it should just

17:22

be one conversation, particularly if it's with a

17:24

parent or with a parent or If it keeps happening to

17:26

say, keeps this keeps happening. I feel like my

17:28

request is very reasonable. it's It's very basic. you

17:30

And if you can't abide by it, it's going

17:32

to make it harder for me to spend

17:34

time around you or bring my children around you.

17:37

So that you're something that you're willing to do?

17:39

If you're not willing to do it, then it

17:41

makes it harder for me to feel like

17:43

I want to spend time around you. And then

17:45

you may actually have to set the limit

17:47

of saying, limit of I'm just actually not going to

17:49

come over for the next to come months next three and

17:51

I want you to think about it. you mean,

17:53

ideally, it. I you might as you adult child offer

17:55

to do family therapy with them with work on

17:57

it if you have to have more of of

17:59

a supportive conversation around it. So those

18:02

are some of the steps that

18:04

I would take. It's interesting again

18:06

thinking of this in the context

18:08

of politics, right? Instead of like,

18:10

well, we have this family dynamic,

18:12

we're working through it, I feel

18:14

like some people receive that kind

18:16

of comment, what you've described as

18:18

like nonsense, like I said, just

18:20

like wokism. Like they can't tell

18:22

me how to think is how

18:24

they receive it. Right. Well, that's

18:26

why you have to put into

18:29

the context of your own feelings

18:31

about them in the relationship. You

18:33

could say, look, you get to

18:35

have your own beliefs about whatever,

18:37

but what you communicate to me,

18:39

I actually do get a sayover.

18:41

I do get a sayover. I

18:43

do get a sayover. I do

18:45

get a sayover, how you communicate

18:47

to me or communicate around my

18:49

children. You want to communicate about

18:51

this with other people. I guess

18:53

I have no control over that,

18:55

but if you're going to be

18:58

around me. What's your advice going

19:00

forward the next couple of months

19:02

as we talked about from this

19:04

survey? One in seven of these

19:06

people surveyed who are estranged Pointed

19:08

to politics and we are now

19:10

in a point where people do

19:12

feel like there's been some fundamental

19:14

schism right and What's your advice

19:16

to those people who are looking

19:18

around and saying, I'm blocking all

19:20

these family members? Like, I'm done

19:22

here. If they would vote for

19:24

this person or that person, that

19:27

makes no sense to me. And

19:29

we should say the survey found

19:31

that both liberal and conservative families

19:33

experience this. This is not a

19:35

story of just like how Trumpers

19:37

are being blocked, so to speak.

19:39

How do you want people to

19:41

think about it before they reach

19:43

for the block button before they

19:45

decide that's like one post too

19:47

far? Well,

19:49

I guess I wish that we

19:52

had a bigger embrace of the

19:54

other aspects of family beyond politics.

19:56

I don't think that our

19:58

particular moment where

20:00

politics has become

20:02

such a powerful

20:05

form of identity is

20:08

actually the right to of place to

20:10

land in terms of thinking about

20:12

whether or not to keep somebody in

20:14

your life. in your life. if you

20:16

if you consider do you consider politics right,

20:18

exactly. synonymous? they don't have to be so

20:20

synonymous. Somebody can be a good person

20:22

still vote for the person that you

20:24

actually hate. They They can also still contribute

20:26

a lot of value value to you

20:28

and your life and your children and the

20:31

rest of your family, even if you

20:33

hate their values. And just because they

20:35

vote for that person doesn't mean that

20:37

they embrace every single thing about them.

20:39

them. What toll can it take

20:41

on the person doing the so

20:44

to speak, to speak, who cuts people

20:46

off because a decision you make can

20:48

have reverberations in other ways down the

20:50

road, and how have you heard

20:52

it? you heard it? Well, the the older

20:54

I get, the more I'm hearing

20:56

from from a children whose parents are

20:58

now dead and they're regretting it. and

21:00

don't know that every person who's

21:02

a that every will regret it, but

21:04

clearly will will. So I think you

21:06

have to think about what the

21:08

life course is going to be

21:10

like for you. the you know, we're

21:13

living in a moment where we

21:15

have rising rates of mental illness, social

21:17

isolation, we have rising rates of loneliness

21:19

and friendlessness. Right. and rising rates of it

21:21

as an epidemic. Right. Right, it is an epidemic and it's

21:23

because we become so preoccupied with our

21:25

own boundaries our our own and our own and

21:27

our own identities and our own our own

21:29

of our mental health that first first of

21:32

all, we're not really recognizing the damage

21:34

that we do when we cut out

21:36

out people who still love us and

21:38

are committed to us, but we're also

21:40

cutting ourselves off from people who can

21:42

still bring a lot of value and

21:44

meaning and mattering to our own lives. you

21:46

know the know, the research on pursuing happiness

21:48

in this highly individualistic way that we

21:50

do it here actually doesn't typically lead...

21:53

to happiness, it typically leads more unhappiness

21:55

because it involves a much more more

21:57

of self -centered approach to happiness. approach

21:59

to happiness. Is there there any of of

22:01

final thought you want to leave with

22:03

us? You've been doing a lot of interviews

22:05

and I... and something you wish people would

22:07

talk about that they don't or something

22:09

you've thought about more as this research has

22:11

come out. about more as this research

22:13

mean, the thing that I think

22:15

the most about as a the most

22:17

about as a my field, as much

22:19

as it does a good job

22:21

of helping people and helping families

22:23

in this moment, I think that

22:26

we're failing a lot of families

22:28

because we're so preoccupied with the

22:30

person who's sitting in front of

22:32

us that we're not thinking about

22:34

the family as a system and

22:36

how much people are getting hurt

22:38

by it. We've become by it. sociologist

22:40

calls sociologist brokers, meaning we help people

22:43

detach from the feelings of the feelings

22:45

of ability or duty or obligation

22:47

or gratitude that earlier generations took

22:49

for granted. So my call call out is

22:51

for my fellow colleagues to become

22:53

more thoughtful and more mindful about

22:55

the way that we might encourage

22:57

encourage arrangements. Joshua Coleman, thank you so thank you

22:59

so much for exploring this with

23:02

us. We really appreciate you. Thank you.

23:04

Thank you. Joshua Joshua Coleman is a

23:06

psychologist a a senior fellow with

23:08

the the on Contemporary Families. He's

23:11

the author of the book of of

23:13

Rules of Why Adult Children Cut Ties

23:15

and How to Heal the Conflict. heal the

23:17

in case you were wondering, he

23:19

and his daughter reconciled and have a reconciled

23:22

and now have a close relationship.

23:25

The assignment is a The

23:27

assignment is a production of

23:29

audio. This This episode was

23:31

produced by Galloretta. Our senior

23:33

producer is Matt Martinez, Dan

23:35

Dan is our technical director,

23:37

and the executive producer

23:39

of CNN Audio is Steve

23:41

CNN audio We had support

23:43

from Dan had support from Dan Alex

23:45

Haley Thomas, Robert Maniseri, Robert Mathers, Lenny

23:47

Deenora, Lenny Steinhardt, James Andris, and Lisa

23:49

and Special thanks as always

23:51

to as always, to and thank

23:53

you for being with

23:55

us. being with us. sleep

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