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and take the first step towards

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better mental mental health Sister

0:36

Wives returns at last. And while

0:38

the Browns have gone their own

0:40

separate ways, that doesn't mean they're

0:42

done with each other. Mary and

0:44

Janelle. Form an unlikely alliance, Christine

0:46

is off living in a newly

0:49

married bliss, and Cody and Robin

0:51

are left wondering, can they be

0:53

happy in a monogamous relationship? And

0:56

after all the joy and drama,

0:58

they hit the hot seat

1:00

and answer the questions everyone has

1:02

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1:04

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1:06

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3:39

I Do Part Two. I'm one

3:41

of your celebrity mentors, Jen Fessler from

3:43

Real Housewives of New Jersey and

3:45

the podcast I co -host, Two Jersey

3:47

Jays. And this is very exciting. You

3:49

all heard me probably tell my

3:51

story of how my husband Jeff and

3:53

I met, got married and then

3:55

took a little marriage detour and then

3:57

found our way back to each

3:59

other. So today I am bringing in my

4:02

husband Jeff because we're going to chat a

4:04

little bit more about the part two of

4:06

it all. Hi, Jeff Fessler. Hello.

4:09

How are you doing? I'm doing

4:11

fine. So let me just

4:13

tell our listeners that this is

4:15

not necessarily your venue of

4:17

choice. No. No. So

4:20

to know us both is to know

4:22

that Jeff Esler is way more of an

4:24

introvert than I am. Would you say

4:26

that that's true? Certain

4:29

social situations, yes. Really?

4:32

Yes. Well, I mean.

4:34

Right. Social situations, work situations.

4:36

All of a sudden,

4:38

my husband becomes chatty Kathy, which

4:40

has served to annoy me. So,

4:42

yeah, this is not really your

4:44

thing. So thank you for joining

4:46

me. I will tell you guys,

4:48

though, that being on

4:51

TV and part of the

4:53

Housewives of New Jersey, Jeff

4:55

has enjoyed. just as much,

4:57

if not more than I have. No

4:59

one really gets it, but right? Well,

5:01

yeah, it's a little bit different than what I

5:03

do on a daily basis. It is. It's

5:05

very interesting. It is. Just an attorney. It's fun.

5:07

Right, right. So, all right,

5:10

just to kind of refresh you

5:12

guys, I'll tell you a little

5:14

bit in case you haven't heard

5:16

the story about our marriage, separation,

5:18

reconciliation. jump in

5:20

at any point if I get anything

5:22

wrong. I will. So, seven years

5:24

into our marriage, which was so

5:26

cliche, right? The seven -year itch. We

5:30

hit a rough

5:32

patch. And, I

5:34

don't know, we were not communicating, right?

5:37

We were kind of doing our thing.

5:39

had two young children. Yes. I

5:41

was working all the time. Yes.

5:43

And I was... With the

5:45

two young children. Excuse me? You

5:47

were with the two young children. Oh, I thought you said

5:49

you were working with the two young children. No, you were with

5:51

the two young children. I definitely with

5:54

the two young children. And I

5:56

was kind of doing this

5:58

cougar thing where, and there were a

6:00

lot of women who I was

6:02

friends with in my town. And

6:04

for whatever reason, like we were

6:06

always going out on Thursday nights,

6:08

right? Getting decked out, going out

6:11

for, I don't know, birthdays,

6:13

but also just to go

6:15

out and flirt. And

6:17

I tell you all of

6:19

that because it's not

6:21

to justify it, but

6:24

there was, so there

6:26

was some infidelity in our marriage and it

6:28

did actually, which no one ever believes. It

6:30

did start with Jeff Fessler. It

6:32

did. It did. So, I mean, I

6:34

know. Well, let me tell you the

6:36

story first and I'll tell you the

6:38

sort of full picture. So that happened

6:40

and that definitely happened. So let's

6:42

just leave it at that. That happened, and

6:44

that's it. Just keep moving on. That was

6:47

not it. What's next? That

6:49

was not it. Go. So that

6:51

happened, and that was

6:53

obviously devastating. Yes.

6:56

Sorry, dude, but, you know. No.

6:58

For both. Yes, for both of

7:00

us. Yes. We stayed

7:02

together for a little while after it

7:04

happened, right? Yeah, that's.

7:06

That's the rough patch. That was

7:08

definitely rough. Yes. Yes, it

7:10

was. Yes. And then at

7:12

some point, I went to Florida with the

7:15

kids, not at some point, over the summer

7:17

that year. You went for the summer. And

7:19

I went to go see my

7:21

sister, my best friend. I

7:23

was like, I'm just going to

7:25

stay for the summer. Got

7:27

this, rented this little townhouse and

7:29

put the kids in camp with

7:31

some of their friends and

7:33

just had myself a good old time. Yeah.

7:37

I guess. guess. Because I wasn't there.

7:39

Yes, you weren't there. And I whooped it

7:41

up. Yes. And ended

7:43

up meeting this guy. Nice

7:47

guy. And

7:50

started something. And basically, Jeff

7:52

came to visit that summer. And I

7:54

said, listen, it's

7:56

over. No. Not

7:59

that summer. Remember, we went to Disney.

8:01

We took kids to Disney. Yeah, but that

8:03

wasn't that summer. Yes, it was. It

8:05

continued until like. December. You mean we stayed

8:07

together until December? Yeah. But I remember

8:09

that conversation because it was not an easy

8:11

conversation. Anyway, so we

8:13

were officially separated as of

8:15

that December. Jeff moved into

8:18

the city for we— In March of 2009. See,

8:20

I don't remember the dates. I

8:22

actually think it's very sweet that

8:24

you remember the exact dates. remember

8:26

everything. So Jeff moved out, moved

8:28

into the city, and— boyfriend

8:30

moved from Florida to New Jersey.

8:33

Can I just say, by

8:35

the way, there's a lot that

8:37

went down that I regret,

8:39

although, you know, not supposed to

8:41

really believe in regrets, but

8:43

I would do things very differently

8:45

today. But

8:47

so my boyfriend at the time

8:49

moved to New Jersey and Jeff

8:52

was in the city doing his

8:54

thing with his girlfriend and the

8:56

kids were going back and forth.

8:58

And the truth is, The

9:00

entire time that we were separated, it wasn't,

9:02

I guess, what. Wait,

9:04

wait, wait, wait. You skipped. So

9:07

I moved into the city and

9:09

then was, you know, I was working

9:11

and doing whatever. And then I

9:13

started going out and then found somebody.

9:15

It wasn't like. What's the difference? It

9:19

wasn't the person. What? It wasn't the

9:21

person. Oh, no. Oh, God. Right. No, it

9:24

wasn't. Yes. Yes. No, it definitely wasn't

9:26

that person. That's a whole other. Yeah. Crazy.

9:28

That's all. Right. Yes. So

9:30

yes, exactly. That's true. But I will

9:32

say that the whole time Jeff

9:35

never wanted to get separated. No.

9:37

And so, you know, it, it wasn't,

9:39

I don't think it was typical in

9:41

that like you look at the PK

9:43

and Dorit of it all. Right. Well,

9:46

yeah, you watch Beverly Hills. And

9:48

the way that they're starting to go after

9:51

each other. We just never had that. We

9:54

didn't really even get into the money.

9:56

Right. We just didn't, like, we were, like,

9:58

getting, we were going to get divorced, and

10:00

it wasn't like this. Well, I do remember

10:02

one thing. Oh, God. Is we did go.

10:04

You know what, enough of you on

10:06

this podcast. We did go to a mediator.

10:08

Right. And it was

10:11

the only time we went, I think. No, we

10:13

went more than once. There's one.

10:15

Okay. Went to a mediator,

10:17

and then you were, like, basically,

10:19

well, this is what I

10:21

want. And then she said, well,

10:23

you have to leave something for him. That's

10:26

50 -50. Me. Wait, what?

10:28

Oh, yes, that's true. She's like, you have to

10:30

leave something for him. I hate that you remember

10:32

that because I it. Yes, I do remember that.

10:34

Yeah, so I guess apparently I was being very

10:36

piggish about it. But, you know, you're scared when

10:38

you're in the middle of that. As

10:41

you can imagine, it's very

10:43

scary, very scary to not

10:45

have worked for, you know, seven

10:47

years, although I did work

10:49

part -time, and not know, you

10:51

know, how the future. will

10:54

pan out and and other than glp

10:56

ones it's a great weight loss oh

10:58

jeff got very very skinny very skinny

11:00

yeah yeah i remember feeling so badly

11:02

about that but he you were actually

11:04

happy about that part i was thrilled

11:06

but we just like we never fought

11:08

i remember once like the kids were

11:10

in the car and they called me

11:12

to complain about him i don't know

11:14

where you guys were going but rachel

11:16

called and she was like daddy's doing

11:18

this or whatever and i'm like honey

11:20

you got there you dialed the wrong

11:22

number you think that You're going to

11:24

complain about Jeff Vessler to me, the

11:26

world's greatest father. So,

11:29

you know, there was never

11:31

really this horrible animosity, even

11:33

with the cheating and whatever

11:35

else had gone down. No,

11:37

there was something underlying it.

11:40

We were sad. Yes. We

11:42

were just both so sad.

11:44

And so we would, whatever,

11:46

talk on the phone and

11:48

I would. tell my boyfriend

11:50

at the time, like I'm

11:52

going to mediation and I

11:54

would meet Jeff at Chili's

11:56

and like, I'm thinking I'm

11:58

cheating on my boyfriend with

12:00

my husband. On the border.

12:02

On the border. You're right.

12:05

Wasn't there one time Chili's when we met, we

12:07

saw Leon? No, it was on the border.

12:09

No, it wasn't. Chili's? Let's not fight. When we

12:11

saw Leon that time. Anyway, doesn't

12:13

matter. TGA Fridays. Yes,

12:15

it was TGA

12:18

Fridays. Anyway, so, you

12:20

know, and The

12:22

guy I was seeing was very invested

12:24

in the relationship and we were

12:26

serious. And, you know, he

12:28

was very good to me. And Jeff

12:30

and his girlfriend were maybe not that serious.

12:32

I don't know. But it just wasn't

12:34

right. Like, I just didn't want to ever

12:36

pull the plug. And I knew that

12:38

Jeff didn't. And my entire family, by the

12:40

way, I will tell you this. They

12:42

all sided with Jeff, which was totally. Jeff

12:45

was never closer to my mother than

12:47

during this time. No, no, no. Yeah. Absolutely.

12:49

They all supported him. Everybody. Oh, yeah.

12:51

Not everybody. Pretty

12:53

much everybody. Our friends. Why is that? Why do you

12:55

think that was? I'm

12:57

me or you. That's

13:00

very likable.

13:03

I'm not. At that point, maybe you

13:05

weren't. Okay. They all, I think that

13:07

they all also, they, I guess they

13:09

knew how badly you wanted to get

13:11

back together. So I would say

13:13

long story short, but this is turning out to

13:15

be long story long. We

13:17

are on a boat going to

13:19

Martha's Vineyard, Nantucket. We were meeting

13:21

Janine. The kids were with her.

13:24

Do you remember this? Yeah. We

13:26

were on the ferry. And I

13:28

don't know why we were together

13:30

because we weren't at that point

13:32

back together. But you said something

13:34

to me. You're like, I don't

13:36

know. You don't understand what we're

13:39

doing now is such, something like

13:41

is so, such a shame. Shonda

13:43

is a Jewish word for it.

13:46

Because we can be so good and

13:48

we can have the best life. And

13:51

that just, I don't know, it

13:53

resonated with me. And so soon after

13:55

that, I just got to the point

13:57

where I was like, I just

13:59

want my life back. Well, it

14:01

happened when we were in Jamaica. Well,

14:04

I went on vacation with my

14:06

boyfriend to St. Bart's, the most

14:08

glorious island in the world. And

14:10

Jeff took the kids to Jamaica,

14:12

like beaches Jamaica. And I

14:14

just wanted... in Jamaica with my

14:17

husband and my kids. I feel

14:19

bad about it because, again, my

14:21

boyfriend was a very nice guy,

14:23

but he's married now, so that's

14:25

okay. Anyway,

14:27

so we got back

14:30

together. We

14:32

did. We got back

14:34

together summer 2010? 2010?

14:39

We were separated for how long? Like a year

14:41

a half? A year and a half,

14:43

yeah. So,

14:46

you know, things

14:48

definitely have changed in our marriage. We got back

14:50

together and we immediately moved out of our

14:52

house to another house in the same town that

14:54

we live in. We just wanted to kind

14:56

of move on. The kids, I will say, we

14:58

told them while they were away at sleepaway

15:01

camp at visiting day. And they

15:03

were so happy. One thing I never

15:05

predicted, because I come from a family

15:07

of lots and lots of divorce. So

15:10

my parents have been divorced. Not

15:12

just from each other, but more

15:14

than once. And so I don't know

15:16

why I thought they got divorced

15:18

when I was three. And I didn't

15:20

predict how I would feel in

15:22

terms of the kids and their sadness.

15:24

Because for me, I guess I

15:26

thought I adjusted. Maybe I just didn't

15:29

remember. But I don't remember ever

15:31

being sad about it. It was just

15:33

my way of life. And

15:35

the kids were so sad. And that

15:37

was certainly the hardest part, watching them

15:39

miss their dad. And it broke my

15:41

heart. And I'm sure

15:43

anybody who's been divorced feels that, of

15:45

course. But I remember telling them that

15:47

we're getting back together on visiting day

15:50

and promising them that it would never

15:52

happen again. Right. I remember that. And

15:54

then we left visiting day when they

15:56

got home. Right. I don't know if

15:58

that was the best time. home to

16:00

a new house, basically. Yes, they got

16:02

home to a new house. I don't

16:04

know if that was the healthiest way

16:07

to handle it, but we did the

16:09

best we could. About buying a new

16:11

house? No, just like, okay, we're getting

16:13

back together. Okay, go back to soccer

16:15

and theater and we'll see you in

16:17

three weeks. It did work out.

16:19

Thankfully, it did work out. So

16:21

anyway, that was our

16:23

journey. But

16:26

let's talk about what it's like now.

16:28

So what would you say has been

16:30

the biggest change? I mean, we've been

16:32

back together for quite some time. We've

16:34

married 25 years. But what do you

16:36

think is different than those initial seven?

16:39

We definitely communicate

16:41

better. And I

16:43

said that the other day, but you laughed at

16:45

me. Because. Oh, come on. I don't know if that's

16:47

it. I don't know that we communicate. I mean,

16:49

I don't even know what that means. I

16:51

don't remember the first seven years. Did we not communicate?

16:53

I mean, I guess we were just so busy doing our

16:55

own thing. Yes. It was

16:57

working. I mean, yes.

16:59

I mean, having

17:02

the kids in the house and young at that

17:04

age. we still had the kids in the house.

17:06

Not now. I don't know. So you

17:08

think it was communicate? I feel like it

17:10

was just gratitude. The thing is, it was

17:12

like getting my best friend back. It's,

17:16

it's, yeah, it's like, it's like,

17:18

I still think about it. You do? Sure. You

17:20

never, ever say that to me. It takes

17:22

a podcast for you to say that to me.

17:25

When do you think it? mean, you think

17:27

about it and you're like, you're relieved that you

17:29

haven't, didn't go through with that all the

17:31

time. That's a nice thing to say. Yeah. I

17:33

do think about it too. And I think

17:35

that the people that love us think about it

17:37

because they're always, you know, my

17:39

aunt is always like, you made the best

17:41

choice ever. You went through hell when you

17:43

came out the other side. Yeah, I know.

17:55

Had plenty of therapy over the years,

17:57

and it's helped me get to

18:00

where I am today. Yeah, and with

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18:30

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18:41

Do Pod and take the first step

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18:48

Sister Wives returns at last, and

18:50

while the Browns have all

18:52

gone their own separate ways, that

18:54

doesn't mean they're done with

18:56

each other. Mary and Janelle are

18:58

looking for love and land.

19:00

But first, form an unlikely alliance.

19:02

Janelle is also hanging with

19:04

her bestie, Christine, who's off living

19:07

in newly married bliss. And

19:09

Cody and Robin are all that's

19:11

left out there on the

19:13

Coyote Pass wondering, can they be

19:15

happy in a monogamous relationship?

19:17

And after all the joy and

19:19

drama, they hit the tell -all

19:21

hot seat and must answer

19:23

the questions everyone has been begging

19:25

to know and maybe just

19:27

serving up some spicy answers of

19:30

their own. Has Cody zenned

19:32

out? Is Robin owning her moment?

19:34

Have Mary and Janelle finally

19:36

found a special someone? And you

19:38

know Christine isn't going to

19:40

hold anything back. You have got

19:42

to catch the return of

19:44

Sister Wives Sunday at 10, 9

19:46

central on TLC. When life

19:48

feels overwhelming, sometimes the best thing

19:50

you can do is slip

19:53

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21:12

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21:14

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21:16

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21:33

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21:35

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21:37

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21:39

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21:42

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21:44

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22:15

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23:09

A lot of married couples, we always hear saying

23:11

that, know, you have to date your spouse and there

23:13

has to, you have to put aside, I guess,

23:15

some time, I don't know, once a week to

23:17

go out on a date. And people always ask

23:19

me like how we got back together and why is

23:21

it different? And I mean, I

23:24

don't think that we do that. What?

23:26

Date night. No. I

23:29

don't think so either. No.

23:31

I mean, we have like, well now. Fridays

23:33

and Saturdays, maybe we'll go out. But during

23:35

the week, no. But it's not like a

23:37

planned date night. And plus, we're empty nesters.

23:40

Yeah. you do anything you want. So that's

23:42

different. But we never did that. We never

23:44

had like an official date night. And the

23:46

truth is, we felt

23:48

like going out. Date night's forced,

23:50

kind of. You think? people

23:53

swear by it. I

23:55

don't know. I mean, we forcing yourself

23:57

to do it. No, I know what

23:59

date night. Yeah. Me. Yeah. Well, it

24:01

was forced. Yeah. We're all connecting. Um,

24:03

I don't actually, I don't know. I

24:05

never, and the other piece is that like

24:07

we would get, we get to Saturday

24:09

night and half the time. And Jeff is

24:12

like always excited to go out and

24:14

be social because he, he doesn't get to

24:16

during the week and he's just work,

24:18

work, work. And I'm just, all I want

24:20

to do on Saturday night is. sit

24:22

on the couch, which is always what I

24:24

want to do every day, sit on

24:26

the couch and watch a movie and lay

24:28

in the bed. Yes. So that's okay.

24:30

So I'm not, by the way, I'm not

24:32

advocating for any of this. We are

24:34

just telling you what works for us. So

24:36

I don't know if you're thinking of

24:38

a separation or you're in the middle of

24:40

one. So, you

24:42

know, half the time we make

24:44

plans, then I feel guilty because I

24:47

just don't want to go out. Right.

24:49

Yes. Yeah, we'll make

24:51

plans and then at like, you know, four

24:53

or five o 'clock, like, yeah, I don't

24:55

feel like going. I know. And I do

24:57

feel badly about that. There's that song, though,

24:59

by Luke Holmes. Yes, Luke Holmes. What is

25:01

it called? Beautiful, beautiful,

25:03

crazy. Yes, beautiful, crazy. I think that

25:05

it describes me perfectly. Not the beautiful

25:07

part. It does. The coffee and the

25:09

whole thing. Yes. Coffee every morning, wine

25:12

at night. Anyway, I digress. So I

25:14

don't know that we do date night,

25:16

but the thing is, and also. And

25:18

so Jeff works from

25:21

home, maybe Fridays, maybe

25:23

occasionally more than that. So during the

25:25

week, he's up and like a robot

25:27

every day since the day I met

25:29

him, 530, boom, up, take the shower,

25:32

do the pushups, get dressed, go to

25:34

work, comes home late, usually around what,

25:36

eight o 'clock? Yeah. Comes

25:38

upstairs, says hi, goes back

25:40

downstairs, back to the office. So I'm always

25:42

in bed. That's something else. But watching

25:44

TV and. eating or whatever it is I'm

25:46

doing. So it's not like we're on

25:48

top of each other all week. No. Talk

25:50

a couple of times during the day

25:53

on the phone. I

25:55

don't know that that's good or bad.

25:57

It's just us. It works. It just

25:59

does. Right. Yes. I don't know why

26:01

it works, but we don't, we're not

26:03

on top of each other all week.

26:05

And even when you're home working, like

26:07

we, we come out, we see each

26:09

other back to the office, back to

26:11

the bedroom. Maybe that

26:13

separation works. If we work together, like,

26:15

all day. If we were together,

26:17

no, I'd kill you. Right. That wouldn't

26:19

work. Yeah. No, it wouldn't work.

26:21

We got along during COVID, I think.

26:23

We were forced to. That's

26:25

very true. Yes. Yeah. I don't

26:27

know. I mean, that's, and then

26:30

on the weekends, we go out.

26:32

I never feel like, one thing

26:34

that I love about you is

26:36

that I never feel pressed to

26:38

do anything. Like, you're so easy.

26:40

Growing up. All

26:43

I wanted to do was lay in

26:45

the bed and read books. And I

26:47

remember my mom would get so frustrated

26:49

with me. And I

26:51

always had this feeling that I was so

26:53

lazy. But you just don't seem to

26:55

care. You never shame me. You do your

26:57

own thing. I eat in the bed. You don't care. When

27:01

those crumbs get on my side of the bed,

27:03

I do care. I

27:06

don't know. We don't pressure each other.

27:08

I feel like we don't. It's very just

27:10

kind of like accepting. Then

27:12

when something happens during the day,

27:15

so either I'm rushing downstairs to the

27:17

office to tell you about it

27:19

or you're rushing upstairs to tell me

27:21

about it. It could be anything.

27:23

It could be something about the kids.

27:25

It be something about work. It

27:27

could be something about the housewives. Now

27:29

Jeff is like a reality show

27:31

aficionado. Not really. Which is just weird.

27:33

Okay. Not really. You 100 % stop

27:35

it. Just stop. Not really. Okay,

27:37

anyway. a couple I watch, and that's

27:39

it. A couple, okay. He's

27:41

into The Bachelor. No, not

27:44

so much anymore. Anyway, we're not

27:46

on top of each other, but

27:48

we're always kind of connecting, checking

27:50

in. And we

27:52

laugh a lot. Like,

27:54

we make fun of each other a lot.

27:56

Jeff and I, we have this shtick where,

27:58

and people are always, I don't know, I

28:00

think sometimes people are like taken aback by

28:02

it. You know what I'm talking about. No.

28:04

Yes, you do. It's a shtick. We give

28:06

each other shtick. all the time. Like

28:10

what? Make fun of each

28:12

other. Go. Okay. Simmer

28:14

down. Go. Like that.

28:16

Like, I don't know. Like people

28:18

that he walks in the room,

28:20

I'm like, oh, hello,

28:22

Jeffrey. And then he'll,

28:25

he just makes fun of me constantly. Sometimes he'll

28:27

come up to the bedroom and he'll like, tuck,

28:29

tuck me in. like press it

28:31

around there just to make fun. We make

28:34

fun of each other a lot. You know

28:36

that we do. Why you lying? That's what

28:38

you're talking about. Yes. Well, as opposed to

28:40

what? I don't know. I don't say you're

28:42

short and. Well, you do. I do. Yeah.

28:44

Yeah. My daughter is dating

28:46

someone who is on, he's not short,

28:48

like you're short on the shorter side. So

28:50

I'm constantly like in front of Jeff

28:52

being like, why would you date a short

28:54

guy? Like what, why

28:57

aren't you looking for someone

28:59

tall and dashing and. I

29:01

mean, no, apparently not.

29:03

Well, he's very cute. Yeah. Her boyfriend. But

29:05

anyway, and he's not, I don't, God forbid

29:07

they're listening. He's not short. He's taller than

29:09

Jack, but he's not tall. My one requirement

29:11

when I was dating back in the day,

29:14

maybe it was fixing me up on a

29:16

blind date. I would be like, he

29:18

doesn't have to be extraordinarily well. He doesn't

29:20

to be wealthy. has to be ambitious.

29:22

He doesn't have to be the life of

29:24

the party. He just has to be

29:26

tall. Well, here

29:28

you go. You missed out on all those.

29:31

My five. You're

29:33

very ambitious. Yes, I

29:35

am. Okay. Yes. So,

29:38

I don't know. Do you think

29:40

that the separation saved our marriage? Like,

29:43

would you do it again? Would I

29:45

go through that again? Knowing what

29:47

I know now? No. No,

29:51

it was hell. It was hell. But do you

29:53

think we would be like, like you said, you

29:55

still think about it. I still think about it.

29:57

There's so much gratitude for it. I

30:00

wouldn't say it's gratitude. I

30:02

would say it's, it's, it's,

30:04

it helped. It helped the

30:06

relationship. I mean, would it,

30:09

maybe, maybe

30:12

this would have happened later your nails.

30:14

Maybe this would have happened later on.

30:18

Wouldn't be able to go through with it.

30:20

I don't what you're talking about. I don't

30:22

know. I don't know. I am not, I

30:24

wouldn't wish it upon anyone and I wouldn't

30:26

want to experience it again. You said, would

30:28

I go through it again? No, I wouldn't.

30:30

I'm saying if it was a choice between

30:32

going through it or not going through it,

30:34

because I think our marriage wouldn't have changed. Like

30:37

we wouldn't have had this gratitude

30:39

necessarily. That's correct. Right. So

30:42

we're grateful to have gone through

30:44

it. Okay, anyway, moving, yes. Yeah,

30:46

that's, I don't know about that. I

30:48

know you don't. Sometimes I say

30:50

to him, I don't know how

30:52

you get through your day. He

30:55

can't connect the dots. No, I

30:57

can't. Except in work. I

30:59

don't know. I don't, again, I wouldn't want to

31:01

go through it again, but I think that it

31:04

did change everything. And you

31:06

guys, I don't know, whoever's

31:08

listening, they say that you

31:10

get divorced, and not for

31:12

everybody, but. When

31:14

nothing else matters. You don't

31:16

care about the money. You

31:19

think to yourself, I don't want to

31:21

set this example for my kids. Or

31:24

you go into the marriage and you know

31:26

it's not going to work. Plenty of people

31:28

have that happen. Say

31:30

what? You go into a marriage and you know it's not going

31:32

to work. Who goes into a marriage and knows it's not going

31:34

to work? Plenty. Like who? I know

31:36

other people. Like who? I'm not saying.

31:38

But I know. If

31:40

that happens. Well, back at our, so

31:42

Jeff was, I was 31 when we

31:45

got married. Yeah. Jeff was 36. Right.

31:47

And so we were both dying to

31:49

get married. I was like, my biological

31:51

clock was ticking. Like I wanted to

31:53

get knocked up before we walked down

31:55

the aisle just so I could trap

31:57

him. I didn't want him backing

31:59

out. Right. Right. We

32:02

did four months later, we

32:04

were pregnant. Right. Right. But

32:06

listen, I'm not advocating for

32:08

separation or divorce. But

32:11

I think it's not just for

32:13

us, for the kids. I'm so grateful

32:16

that we found our way back.

32:18

There's something to be said for having,

32:20

being together for all of these

32:22

years, especially, I guess, when it comes

32:24

to the kids, right? Well,

32:26

there's other, right? There's other celebrity

32:28

couples who've done the same thing.

32:31

That we went through. Got separated and came back.

32:33

Just FYI, we're not really a celebrity couple,

32:35

as much as you like to tell yourself that.

32:37

No, I'm just saying, not other celebrity. There's

32:40

other examples of this

32:42

out there. So, for

32:44

instance, Ben

32:46

Stiller and his wife, I love them. Right. Right?

32:48

They separated and got back together. I mean,

32:50

I don't know the details of it. Who else?

32:54

That's it. J -Lo and

32:57

Ben. J -Lo and Ben, yes. But

32:59

that's not a great example. Thank you, Heather.

33:02

I appreciate that, but we're not aspiring

33:04

to that. And

33:06

I don't know. I mean, it's not

33:08

easy. I got tons of phone calls from

33:11

women in my town after we got

33:13

back together and women that I did not

33:15

know and saying, hi, my name is

33:17

Jane Doe. Your daughter was in preschool with

33:19

my daughter. I'm really sorry to bother

33:21

you, but do you think we can talk?

33:23

I'm considering a divorce or a separation.

33:26

Maybe you should write a book. Maybe

33:29

I'll do a podcast. Why

33:32

don't you write a book? You write a book. You write

33:34

a book. So

33:36

I think that

33:39

divorce is brutal. And

33:41

I think if you think that there's a shot,

33:44

there is really something to be

33:46

said for staying together. And it's

33:48

not perfect. So let me just

33:50

say that. People ask all

33:52

the time, you know, what is it

33:55

like now? Are you hanging from

33:57

the chandeliers? Like, you know, we didn't

33:59

start, we didn't get back together.

34:01

And all of a sudden we're having

34:03

sex three times a day and

34:05

jetting off to exotic locations. We travel

34:07

a lot together. Yes. That's one

34:10

of our things. We did jet off

34:12

to Vietnam. We did recently jet

34:14

off to Vietnam. For our 25th

34:16

anniversary, I would highly recommend Vietnam. Yes,

34:18

me too. Anyway, but I

34:20

mean, it didn't change like that. But

34:23

I think if you can make

34:25

it work and think that there

34:27

is still a chance, I would

34:29

recommend it. Yeah, but

34:31

I mean, there's people who should

34:33

be divorced. Of course. And

34:36

they know it. Yes. Of

34:38

course. You know, this wouldn't work

34:41

for them. But if there's still a

34:43

chance, there's still a possibility, you

34:45

should definitely give it a shot. I

34:47

have friends who got divorced. And

34:49

I look at it and I think,

34:51

you were going through very similar

34:54

things that we were. And I do

34:56

think to myself that they probably

34:58

regret it. Yeah, they probably do.

35:00

Right? They won't admit it. And don't

35:02

think that we're telling anyone what to

35:04

do. We're not experts on anything. But.

35:07

Well, Jeff is an expert in some

35:09

things. So am I. More things than

35:11

you. I don't know

35:13

about that. Anyway, but we're not

35:15

experts on this. So again, I

35:17

would just say it's been my

35:19

life. I can't imagine my life

35:21

if we had gotten divorced. And

35:24

I am so proud of us.

35:27

I agree. I am too.

35:30

That's nice. And we have our

35:32

stuff that's like. It's not

35:34

like our relationship changed so dramatically.

35:36

I think we got just

35:38

grateful. We were always best friends.

35:40

That's what it is. It's

35:42

grateful for each other. I'm

35:45

so proud of you. I'm

35:47

so proud that you're my

35:49

husband. I'm proud that we

35:51

have been together this long.

35:53

I respect you so much.

35:56

I feel very lucky

35:58

to have you for

36:00

so many reasons. And

36:02

stop picking your nails. And

36:05

that's not one of the

36:07

reasons. But I definitely think about

36:09

that all the time. And

36:11

I'm proud of how smart you are.

36:13

I'm proud of how hard you work.

36:16

I'm the most proud of the kind

36:18

of father you are. Okay, now it's

36:20

your turn. Jump in. I'm

36:22

proud you got this wonderful

36:24

job with Real Housewives. You

36:27

are. You are. And

36:29

it's a great podcast. And no,

36:31

I'm actually proud of your

36:33

achievement, what you've done. I appreciate

36:35

that. Sister

36:41

Wives returns at last. And

36:43

while the Browns have all

36:46

gone their own separate ways,

36:48

that doesn't mean they're done

36:50

with each other. Mary and

36:52

Janelle are looking for love

36:54

and land. But first, form

36:56

an unlikely alliance. Janelle is

36:58

also hanging with her bestie,

37:00

Christine, who's off living in

37:02

newly married bliss. And Cody

37:04

and Robin are all that's

37:06

left out there on the

37:08

Coyote Pass wondering, can they

37:10

be happy in a monogamous

37:12

relationship? And after all the

37:15

joy and drama, they hit

37:17

the tell -all hot seat

37:19

and must answer the questions

37:21

everyone has been begging to

37:23

know and maybe just serving

37:25

up some spicy answers of

37:27

their own. Has Cody zenned

37:29

out? Is Robin owning her

37:31

moment? Have Mary and Janelle

37:33

finally found a special someone?

37:35

And you know Christine isn't

37:37

going to hold anything back.

37:39

You have got to catch

37:41

The Return of Sister Wives,

37:43

Sunday at 10, 9 central

37:46

on TLC. Hi, it's Kelly

37:48

Ben -Simon. Did you ever notice how more

37:50

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37:52

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37:54

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37:56

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37:58

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38:00

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38:02

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38:05

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38:07

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38:09

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38:11

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38:13

don't make me live by it. That's

38:15

where the Freedom from Religion Foundation comes

38:18

in. They fight to keep church and

38:20

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38:22

So whether you've always been secular or

38:24

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38:26

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40:46

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40:48

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41:03

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41:07

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41:18

We're so used to each

41:20

other. So when we

41:22

travel, for instance, we have

41:25

the same rhythm. Yeah,

41:27

we probably couldn't travel with other people.

41:30

Our friends travel and they travel in

41:32

groups sometimes. And we've said no. Okay,

41:34

he said no more than I have.

41:36

But yeah, we travel. We

41:38

have the same rhythm. Like we know

41:40

we... Both of us, we get up

41:42

in the morning. There's only a certain

41:44

amount of sightseeing that we do. We're

41:46

very centered around our meals. It's all

41:48

about breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Where are

41:50

we eating them? And where, when, right?

41:52

Yes. I mean, we sightsee,

41:54

but I don't let you make

41:56

me crazy. beforehand. Well, because he

41:59

maps everything out. maps everything out, and then

42:01

we hit those spots. And he has to

42:03

push me sometimes. I'm like, okay,

42:05

I cannot do one more

42:07

museum. Right. Or whatever, one

42:09

more landmark. Right, and

42:11

if you don't want to go, then I'll go by

42:13

myself. Yes. And that's fine. It's not

42:15

always fine. And then I'll come

42:17

back and I'll tell you about it and you'll be like,

42:19

oh. We were in Paris and you wanted to go

42:21

to, what do you call it? What?

42:24

Paris, you wanted to go to, we

42:26

were in Paris. Oh, Normandy. Normandy, sorry. And

42:28

I was dreading it. We're supposed to

42:30

get up at five o 'clock in the

42:32

morning and go to Normandy. It was the

42:34

last thing I felt like doing. I'm

42:36

not really a mystery buff. Yeah,

42:38

we literally flew in. Got

42:40

there early in the morning

42:42

to Paris, fell asleep for

42:45

the entire day, and then

42:47

that night couldn't sleep. Nope.

42:50

And at 5 a .m., we were like, yeah,

42:52

forget it. Yep. Well, you were like, forget

42:54

it, because I have to say. You were

42:56

going to go. I was going to go.

42:58

I would have complained the entire time, but

43:00

I was going to. There was one time

43:02

that we were in Charleston, and we loved

43:04

Charleston. We ended up buying a house there

43:06

that we unfortunately recently just sold. But anyway,

43:09

we were in Charleston, and Jeff. wanted to

43:11

do a historical tour of the city. And

43:13

it was hot out. And we got

43:16

a tour guide. And for whatever reason,

43:18

I was getting mosquito bites. And he

43:20

was so into it. And they were

43:22

walking, him and our tour guide were

43:24

walking ahead of me. And every time

43:26

he turned around, I like shot in

43:28

the bird. Every

43:30

time. Every time. I was so furious.

43:32

He was very angry. I know. But

43:34

it was very interesting. For Jeff. So

43:36

I don't care. I know. She did.

43:38

Yes. But like, that's part of it.

43:40

He does laugh at me. We

43:43

do. I mean, we laugh at each other. Yes.

43:45

We laugh at each other. Especially

43:47

when I trip and, you know. Oh, the best

43:49

thing is when he falls, I die. That's it.

43:51

There's nothing better than when he trips and falls.

43:53

It doesn't happen that often, but when it does,

43:55

I love it. Yeah. Soon I'll be like, you

43:57

know, in like, what? 18 years, I'll be 80.

43:59

I'm going to trip and fall, break

44:01

my hip, and she'll be there laughing. It's

44:04

good. No, I won't because then I'll have to take care

44:06

of you. Also,

44:08

this is interesting, I think, but

44:11

like Jeff's parents were together

44:13

until they both very, very unfortunately

44:15

and sadly passed. But I

44:17

don't think a man ever loved

44:19

a woman as much as

44:21

Max Vessler loved Phyllis Vessler. I

44:23

mean, he was the

44:25

best example of a father

44:28

and a husband. And

44:30

there are certain things that he always

44:32

did that I, with Phyllis, that I, my

44:34

mother -in -law, that I just admired. Like

44:36

he always... kissed her on the lips. Hello

44:38

and goodbye. And every

44:40

morning with the bad, my bad

44:43

breath and the whole thing. I

44:45

kiss you goodbye. Every morning. Every

44:47

morning. That's silly, but like

44:49

for some reason it's like a thing. He

44:51

always brings me coffee when he's home. When

44:53

I'm home. And when we're awake this morning

44:55

at the hotel. Like it's just, he goes

44:57

and gets the coffee every time. And every

44:59

morning that he's home and we sit in

45:01

bed, especially on the weekends. Sunday

45:03

we watch Saturday Night Live. Yes.

45:06

And we watch the news Saturdays and

45:08

Sundays, even Fridays. We watch Saturday Night Live

45:10

because we can't watch it on Saturday

45:12

night because – I'm sleeping. Well,

45:14

at 5 o 'clock when we were having

45:16

plans, she canceled them. We went up

45:18

to bed. We went to sleep and we

45:20

missed everything. Yeah. I sleep a lot. Yes.

45:23

I can't help it. You do sleep a lot.

45:25

I do sleep a lot. And you sleep is not

45:27

at all. No. Yeah. What do you think that

45:29

– I'm going to ask you this question and you're

45:31

just going to give me an annoying answer. But

45:33

what do you think the – What

45:35

are the keys to having a long -lasting

45:37

marriage? You're going to say communication, and I'm

45:39

going to throw up a little. I

45:44

don't know. I mean. If we fight, we

45:46

don't make sure we wake up before we go

45:48

to bed. No, no. I don't care. I

45:50

go to bed holding a grudge all the time.

45:52

All the time. I don't give a shit.

45:55

Yes, which I don't like. Well, I don't know

45:57

that I'm going to be able to change

45:59

that at 56 years old. No. You get upset

46:01

that we go to sleep angry? Yeah.

46:04

But then I go to sleep and then you wake up and

46:06

you're like, it's like nothing ever happened. No, I'm not. And

46:09

I do apologize. I'm a good you wake up in the morning

46:11

like nothing ever happened. That's not true. Yeah, you do. But

46:13

you give me that face sometimes. He does this thing and the

46:15

kids make fun of him too. He's like, oh, like

46:17

wake up in the morning. Depends

46:20

on the fight. And then I'll remind

46:22

you, oh yeah. Sometimes.

46:24

Well, that's also when I'm drinking at night. I've

46:26

had too much wine and we get into

46:29

a fight and then I'm like, yeah.

46:32

I was a bitch

46:34

last night. Or alternatively, I

46:36

am mad. That's not true in the

46:38

morning. But I do

46:40

try to take accountability. So

46:43

do you. That's

46:45

a key. never me. Except

46:48

that it's never him. Same freaking Jeffrey.

46:50

And everyone thinks he's a saint. I

46:52

am. I have to say, that's annoying.

46:54

You are not a saint. We have

46:56

very different views when it comes to

46:58

money. I believe in spending

47:00

it. He believes in not spending it.

47:02

Right. And that's definitely been

47:04

a challenge in our marriage. a

47:06

challenge. It continues to be a challenge.

47:09

It continues to be a challenge.

47:11

The good news is, I mean, I

47:13

worked. I worked as a recruiter.

47:15

Then I started a business, and I

47:17

certainly didn't make money off of

47:19

F Major. But, well, now I sort

47:21

of am. No. Okay. Well, anyway,

47:23

I have business. A couple of sales

47:26

doesn't recover a lot Okay, shopfmajor.com.

47:28

There were just a lot of costs.

47:30

But you were very supportive. Yeah.

47:32

But yeah, it always worked though. But

47:34

yes, now I'm making some money

47:36

and so I feel no obligation to

47:38

save a dime. Right.

47:41

With all the glam, the dresses and all that.

47:43

But I say to them, I'm like, what do

47:45

you want from me? You want me to do

47:48

this? I have to do it. Right. That's your

47:50

excuse. That's why you're doing it because you get

47:52

dresses every time. Thank you. An outfit. Thank you.

47:54

A new outfit. Thank you. It's like there's rooms

47:56

with cloth. There is. We have a couple of

47:58

rooms that I had to put up those hanging

48:00

things. Yeah, it's crazy. But I'm also, I can

48:02

also spend on very stupid things, but Jeff is

48:04

such a saver. So we balanced each other out.

48:06

It was up to me. I would have bankrupted

48:09

us by now. So we recently

48:11

discussed on this pod, or it's

48:13

been, not we, it's been recently

48:15

discussed on this pod, that there is

48:17

this topic of being sleep divorced,

48:19

right? Where like couples who sleep in

48:21

separate bedrooms have get along better.

48:24

have stronger marriages. What do you

48:26

think of that? Maybe, because it's

48:28

separation. Maybe because that's why I go to

48:30

work. That's why I'm at work all day. That's

48:32

not why you go to work. No, it's

48:34

not why I go to work, but because that.

48:36

But I'm talking about, would you be interested

48:38

in sleeping? But that's the separation. Would you be

48:40

interested in sleeping in separate bedrooms? No. Me

48:42

neither. I don't know. People love that. I mean,

48:45

but we also, I don't know, you stay

48:47

on your side, I stay on my side. I

48:49

do sometimes in the middle of the night

48:51

get worked up thinking that he might be dead,

48:53

and so I kick him. Sometimes hard. Yeah,

48:56

that's something to wake up. That's

48:58

definitely just to make sure he's breathing. Yeah.

49:01

Or like. It's hard enough to go

49:03

to sleep. Then in the middle of

49:05

the night. Yeah, he get kicked and

49:07

wake up. It's like, okay, now up.

49:09

I try not to do it too

49:11

hard. But yeah, I get nervous. Yeah.

49:13

Or I tend to like be wake

49:15

up because I'm just riddled with anxiety.

49:17

So I could feasibly wake up screaming

49:19

at some point. Some nightmare.

49:21

Well, that happens, yes. That happens, but I

49:23

still wouldn't want to sleep in a

49:25

different room. Also, when you travel, I hate

49:27

when you travel and I have to

49:30

sleep alone at night. I

49:32

don't know why, because you're a

49:34

strong man, but if somebody breaks

49:36

in, I don't see you being

49:38

able to fight. I

49:40

don't want to insult you. No, we got

49:42

two cats. We have two cats, so we'll

49:44

take care of it. Yes, but I get

49:46

so nervous when you travel. I hate it. I

49:49

don't like sleeping alone. That's

49:51

why there's an alarm. Whatever.

49:55

I don't know, you

49:57

guys. This is our

49:59

story. I always get people

50:01

that just love to hear

50:03

it because maybe it's encouraging

50:06

and I think it's interesting.

50:08

It doesn't happen every day.

50:10

No. I do part two.

50:12

This whole podcast is about

50:14

the second time around. This

50:17

is art. Sort of our

50:19

second time around. I

50:21

don't know if it's second time around. It is

50:23

a second. There was a break. There was a

50:25

break. Well, that's the second time around. Okay. I

50:27

mean, you know. But you did it

50:29

differently the second time around. We did. Maybe.

50:31

Yeah. I think it's all, it was

50:33

just gratitude. Yes. It's gratitude for

50:36

what you have and a realization

50:38

of what you have. Yes. Yeah. And

50:40

we also, again, the best friend

50:42

thing, I think that's personally more than

50:44

anything else is that I like

50:46

you. I love you,

50:48

but I really like you. And

50:50

I don't like anybody else the

50:52

way I like you. I

50:54

have really close friends who I

50:56

can be my complete self with,

50:58

but not in the same way. I

51:02

just enjoy you. Not always. Sometimes I

51:04

can't stand you. But for the most

51:07

part, that's the part that I think

51:09

is the strongest. I think that it's the

51:11

strongest, yes. Anyway, you guys, that's us.

51:13

That's all the time we have, but

51:15

this is us. We love each other

51:17

and we love you guys. Thank you so

51:19

much for listening. Thank you. This is

51:21

a big date night. First date night

51:23

we've had in. Well, you've been to award

51:25

shows. I've never been to one. Yeah.

51:27

Never taken you before. No. You owe

51:30

me big. Right. Okay. Here's the date

51:32

night. All right. So are you thinking about

51:34

getting back together with your ex or

51:36

reconciling after a separation and need some

51:38

advice? Call us or email us. Follow

51:40

us on socials. All the information will be

51:42

in the show notes. Make sure to

51:44

rate and review the podcast, please. I

51:46

do part two, an iHeart podcast where falling

51:48

in love is the main objective. You

52:02

know when you're really stressed or not feeling

52:04

so great about your life or about

52:06

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52:08

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53:36

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