0:00

2020, In 2020 a

0:02

group of young women found themselves

0:04

in an AI-fueled nightmare. Someone was

0:06

posting photos. It was just me

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making, well, not me, but me

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with someone else's body part. This

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is Levertown, a new podcast from

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I Heart Podcasts, Bloomberg, and kaleidoscope

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about the rise of deep-fate pornography

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the I Heart Radio app, Apple

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podcasts, or wherever you get your

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podcasts. Every single day we are given a choice. We

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can either bring heaven down

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1:00

Heaven Down on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1:02

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1:05

Hey, it's Zuko and Kayla from The

1:07

Wake Up Call. Enjoy your podcast, and

1:09

when you're done, don't forget about us.

1:11

We have a radio show. We try

1:13

to bring a smile to your face

1:15

every morning. We also talk to some

1:17

of the hottest country stars of today, and we like

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I Heart Radio app. Ben Higgins and

1:34

Ashley I bring you infamous. Sometimes

1:37

roses are red flags.

1:39

Welcome to Infamous because sometimes

1:42

roses are red flags. Our

1:44

story continues today with Clayton

1:46

Eckert. You know him from

1:48

Michelle Young's season and from his

1:50

time as The Bachelor. Clayton,

1:53

welcome to the podcast. Thanks for

1:55

having me, guys. This is a new little thing

1:57

you got going, huh? It is.

2:00

So Clayton, we have talked to you

2:02

many times about all the fantasy

2:04

sweet drama, right? I slept with all

2:06

of you or was intimate with

2:08

all of you. I love all of

2:10

you. But we're going to start

2:12

today, the beginning of

2:14

your season. Because there was

2:16

a very well -known villain

2:18

on your season, Shanae.

2:20

She had pushed Elizabeth during

2:22

an obstacle course. She

2:25

called Elizabeth's ADHD diagnosis fake,

2:27

and then there was

2:29

Shrimp Gate. But you kept

2:31

Shanae along for quite

2:33

some time. Were you... What

2:35

was... opinion of her in the house.

2:37

Was it true to what we saw on

2:39

TV? Yeah. I mean, to be honest

2:41

with you, it was such a small part

2:43

of my story and my experience. I

2:45

didn't even know half of that stuff was

2:48

going on because I was so focused

2:50

on the other women and my connections with

2:52

them that like when it first got

2:54

brought up, I just said, okay, I thought

2:56

it was a one -off thing. And,

2:59

you know, we all

3:01

understand that, well, each

3:03

episode, it's two hours long on TV, comprises

3:05

I think four days of filming at 16

3:07

hours a day of filming. So do the

3:09

math, you know, it was at 64 hours. It

3:12

made it seem the edit, because

3:14

again, it's all people tune in for

3:16

the entertainment for the drama. So it

3:18

made it seem as though that was

3:20

a massive storyline. And it

3:22

wasn't to me, like the experience I

3:24

had, it was like, oh, Shanae's Sorry,

3:26

comment. By the way, Shays and Shays

3:29

creating some drama. So like

3:31

when I watched the show, I was like,

3:33

whoa, this was acting like this was the

3:35

main plot line. Like this was hardly a

3:37

narrative. But, you know, again, like the show

3:39

is creating an entertaining TV show. All that

3:41

stuff was happening. It just wasn't like the

3:43

main focus, you know, but that's what the

3:45

editing made it seem. It's always

3:47

the big question. And I think from

3:49

my standpoint, I agree with Clayton. From

3:51

the lead, you don't see all this

3:53

stuff, nor do you know it's all happening. But

3:56

it's a story that's going on and the longer

3:58

they can let it happen without you knowing it,

4:00

the more content they get to show. Clayton,

4:03

you've said recently to us that

4:05

you have a better relationship. I don't

4:07

know if you've exactly defined it

4:09

as good, but a better relationship with

4:11

production today. And that's

4:13

a little bit confusing to me. I

4:15

think you said this before the mass layoffs

4:18

that have happened, right? Over 200 people

4:20

are now no longer working on the show.

4:22

The whole new team is in place. Ashley

4:25

and myself, we know nobody other

4:27

than one person that still works on

4:29

the show from our time. And

4:31

that's probably similar to your situation. So

4:34

my question, I guess, is help us

4:36

understand. Is this a good relationship with

4:38

production of old or have you already

4:40

spoken to the whole new team and

4:42

they got your back and you guys

4:44

are ready to rock and roll? No,

4:47

so I was at after the

4:49

final rose recently and I would

4:51

say there was about six or

4:53

eight familiar faces that came in

4:55

executive producers. handlers,

4:58

just people that were a part of my, when

5:00

I was the bachelor that were around. So

5:02

again, I didn't see how much of the rest

5:05

of the team was there. I didn't get

5:07

to talk to the cameraman and women. Honestly, I

5:09

was kind of more so taking in all

5:11

these other things, but there was enough familiar faces

5:13

and they had come and checked in with

5:15

me and we had good conversations. But

5:17

I'm more so saying that like, I

5:19

guess, yeah, more of a blanket statement.

5:21

I'm more so in good graces with

5:24

like the production element. of or maybe

5:26

and who knows how they view me

5:28

but like I'm okay with everything that

5:30

happened because Matthew McConaughey's Greenlight said that

5:32

that book really resonated with me I

5:34

just love his voice for one but

5:36

I listened to his audiobook and on

5:38

it he said it's not personal it's

5:41

business when referencing Hollywood and I think

5:43

that just I realized I was like

5:45

they had to create a TV show

5:47

and you gave them a lot of

5:49

stuff to put out there. So it's

5:51

not like they're, you know, they just

5:53

did their job, which was put out

5:55

and entertaining a show. So with

5:57

that, I'm like, it's not personal. You know, I can't

6:00

these people aren't monsters. They're just they have a job

6:02

to do and you signed up for it. You just

6:04

weren't really aware of what all was going to entail.

6:06

When you're watching the show back, was

6:09

there one time besides like

6:11

before Fantasy Suite drama? where you

6:13

were like, holy crap, like

6:15

that surprised me. Like I can't

6:17

believe that happened or that

6:19

is not the way that happened.

6:23

Yeah, I would

6:25

say I'm trying to think

6:27

what came up. My

6:30

one thought was there

6:32

was there was a point

6:34

where we had like

6:36

a psychotherapy date or and

6:39

at the end of

6:41

it, the psychotherapist was like

6:43

Hey, I had a

6:45

great time getting to know you all today, but there's

6:47

someone here that's not here for the right reasons or

6:49

they had something along those lines. And

6:51

she says that and then they

6:53

turn, she turns to me and I

6:56

just look at her and I

6:58

go, all right, well, not

7:00

really sure what that's about, but let's just

7:02

go ahead and go to the after

7:04

party or whatever. And then the show is

7:06

like, hold on, stop, clean.

7:10

That's it. And I was like, I'm not really

7:12

gonna put much weight into that, guys. I'm

7:14

not really too concerned about it. I don't agree

7:16

with her assessment. They're like, no,

7:18

you gotta, there's something amiss. I was

7:20

like, no. And so

7:22

it was just, that's what came up

7:24

when you asked me that question was

7:26

like, it was, I'm like, no, you

7:29

have to be more bothered by this

7:31

than you are. And there were multiple

7:33

times, I guess, throughout the experience where

7:35

I was like, Guys, I also understand

7:37

that I want to show and like

7:39

people may be playing up some drama

7:41

and like, I just can't fake this.

7:43

I'm not an actor. So whatever, like

7:45

this seems petty. So I guess

7:48

that would be an example of like a time

7:50

where it just didn't seem like a big deal.

7:52

But it led to a situation where it was

7:54

Sarah that was she was telling the other girls

7:56

that I was going to choose her from the

7:58

very beginning. And then those girls approached me because

8:00

they were like, hey, she's saying these things. And

8:02

I'm like, I don't believe it unless like the

8:04

women tell me. And so then I had a

8:06

few women that came up to me that I

8:08

trusted that were like, yeah, she's been saying this

8:10

all along. We almost left the house. And I

8:12

was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, y 'all were

8:14

about to leave. And so at that point, then

8:16

I was like, what's going on? Like, there's all

8:18

this stuff that's happening. behind the

8:20

scenes that like I'm not privy to. And you're

8:22

telling me that like four of the top, you

8:25

know, 10 women that were in my top 10

8:27

or whatever, four of them were said they were

8:29

about to leave multiple times throughout the show because

8:31

of what Sarah was saying. I was like, what

8:33

is going on? Like, why am I not being

8:35

informed about this? So yeah, it

8:37

was stuff like that. There was like always, I

8:39

started to realize later in the show, I'm

8:41

like, stuff is happening and I'm not being told

8:43

because I guess I'm not there. So technically

8:45

I shouldn't be told, but like also I feel

8:47

like I need to know if someone's about

8:49

to leave. Clayton there's a

8:51

and and your season doesn't

8:53

get credit for it, but

8:55

I feel like there was

8:58

a big storyline Coming out

9:00

of your season around sex

9:02

That wasn't as discussed as

9:04

maybe other seasons that we

9:07

think of when we think

9:09

of physical intimacy There there

9:11

was criticism based on

9:13

how defensive you seemed and watching it back, you

9:15

did seem defensive. I don't know, you could argue

9:17

with me and say you weren't or it didn't

9:19

seem like that, but from the show standpoint, it

9:21

did seem like it. When Susie

9:23

was talking about her boundaries, it

9:26

was criticized

9:28

publicly. Now watching it back

9:30

and now being removed from it, were you defensive?

9:32

Was that just what the show made it

9:35

seem like? What was your thoughts at the time

9:37

as you sat, I think it was at

9:39

a dinner table? Yeah, I mean, I think what

9:41

you saw is what you saw. That was

9:43

my reaction. That was my

9:45

reaction, though, four hours into a conversation.

9:47

And it was in the last five minutes

9:49

when I realized they're like, we got

9:51

to go. You guys got to wrap this

9:53

conversation up. And so as my

9:55

back felt against the wall and everything felt

9:57

like it was falling apart, and I started

10:00

to question if... Susie

10:02

was, you had ulterior motives and I

10:04

started basically getting in my head. And so

10:06

those final five to 10 minutes, I

10:08

was like, I, you know, I don't even

10:10

know what I'm looking at anymore. I

10:12

don't know who you are. And I didn't

10:14

want to hear anything else. I was

10:16

like, it's over. Like, I didn't want to

10:18

have that conversation on camera, but I

10:20

didn't have a choice. It was like, I,

10:22

I begged for us to take the

10:24

fancy suites and then have that conversation in

10:26

private and was not. able to happen.

10:28

So at that point, I was like, okay,

10:30

so I started then telling her in

10:32

the best way that I could. This is

10:34

what happens. And then once I set

10:36

it on camera, it was like,

10:38

it's out there, right? Now I have to

10:40

go tell the other women. it's it's it's that's

10:42

just there's no other way about you can sit here

10:45

and say well he shouldn't have said anything until

10:47

you know the show aired i'm like why would i

10:49

do that you know move forward with one of

10:51

the other two women and go oh hey by the

10:53

way we're together now something happened two and a

10:55

half weeks so that you need to know about i'm

10:57

like no everybody needs to be caught up with

10:59

what transpired so i felt that full transparency was the

11:01

way to go um as far as like how

11:03

i conducted myself in those final 10 minutes i got

11:05

scrutinized Um, yeah, I raised my tone. I even

11:07

said, you know, Hey, this is out of character for

11:09

me. I'm not normally, you I don't normally raise

11:11

my tone like this. Um, you know, I

11:13

think I got fed to the wolves. I'm like, I

11:15

don't think I've, I know people, I'm not trying to

11:17

compare, but at the end the day,

11:19

it was a four hour conversation. The final 10 minutes,

11:21

I lost my cool a bit and, um, you

11:23

know, take accountability for that. People didn't like the way

11:25

I reacted, but, um, that's, I felt that, you

11:27

know, that I was, my back was against the wall

11:29

and everything was slipping and I was, you know,

11:32

grasping at straws. And I was in a really uncomfortable

11:34

spot. And so, you know, yeah, I was just

11:36

trying to say or do the right thing to keep

11:38

her around. And she wasn't willing to. And at

11:40

that point, I felt like I was in a bad

11:42

spot. I'm like, I'm going to lose her. And

11:44

then I'm going to lose these other women tomorrow when

11:46

I fill them in on what happened. It

11:49

was a four hour conversation. What

11:51

did the other four hours look

11:53

like sound like? They were fine.

11:55

I mean, they were very cordial. But

11:59

then things started to just go sideways

12:01

where it wasn't shown, but it's like, I

12:03

just wanted, I did not want to

12:05

have the conversation that was shown on camera.

12:07

I was like begging to do it

12:09

off camera. But we signed

12:12

a contract saying that we are going to put

12:14

everything on camera outside of Fancy Suite. So

12:16

like I wanted to like, because again, it was

12:18

out of respect. I also didn't feel comfortable

12:20

talking about the other women and like putting it

12:22

out there, putting their business out there, but

12:24

I didn't have a choice. So when I was

12:26

started to realize like you have to have

12:28

this conversation. I'm like, okay, I have to navigate

12:31

this and say the things and every word

12:33

like could potentially give up more information than I

12:35

want. But she needs to know what happened

12:37

because she asked me directly. Have you expressed feelings

12:39

of love or been intimate with the other

12:41

women? And I was like, well, that's a direct

12:43

question. I can't skirt around this. If I

12:45

skirt around it, I'm gonna be lying, you know,

12:48

or air, air by omission, right? So I'm

12:50

like, it's an indirect lie. And I was like,

12:52

you're not a liar. So I was, it

12:54

was us going back and forth and trying to

12:56

see if we can make it work and

12:58

just like between us. And yeah,

13:00

I mean, after just then she wasn't

13:02

willing to do the overnights. And so that's

13:04

where it was like, guys, wrap this

13:06

up. And that's where I was like, all

13:08

right, here's the final 10 minutes. And

13:11

that was what was shown. Jared

13:18

and I met with our financial

13:20

advisors this week and it's been

13:22

a couple years of us doing

13:24

these zooms every couple months and

13:27

it's making me starting to like

13:29

Understand this pretty well and enjoy

13:31

the zooms. I feel like I

13:33

initially learned finance stuff from my

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dad the basics and now these

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guys are really teaching me How

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did you learn how to deal

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with finances? Oh, I think your

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I'm Margie Murphy and I'm Olivia

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daily reminder that God is

18:58

near. He is good and he

19:00

is working in your life.

19:02

Even when it doesn't feel that

19:04

way. Listen to Bring Heaven

19:06

Down on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

19:09

Podcast, or wherever you get

19:11

your podcasts. Let's bring heaven

19:13

a little closer together. I'm

19:15

in terms of life. It's the Breakfast

19:17

Club. The world's most dangerous

19:19

morning show. Hey! Angela E. is

19:22

kind of like the big sister that

19:24

always picks in the boy. That's not

19:26

how it goes. That's not how anything

19:28

goes. Yeah, me's really like a... What

19:37

is wrong with you? It

19:50

felt like watching it in

19:52

this infamous series is a lot

19:54

about what's the secrets behind

19:57

the scenes, kind of pulling back

19:59

the and getting to the

20:01

real part. It felt like

20:03

watching your season, it was shocking to

20:05

me that production was able to keep

20:07

you around. I say that

20:09

because it did feel like everything was

20:11

going okay and then these last, you

20:13

know, week, two weeks. Like, it

20:15

felt like every place you turned, and

20:17

I'll just be honest, you couldn't make a

20:19

good decision. Like, and it was

20:21

like, you were going to get pounded

20:24

from every side. And there

20:26

was no right, like you

20:28

were kind of saying decision

20:30

you could make, including a

20:32

comment Rachel made, which is

20:34

a big accusation. It's a

20:36

big question. So

20:38

I want you to answer kind of respond

20:40

to this statement that she made but

20:42

then also if you can tie it into

20:45

how was production encouraging you to even

20:47

stick around after this kind of thing is

20:49

being said She said that you kept

20:51

her around or you told her that you

20:53

were in love with her because you

20:55

wanted to sleep with her That is a

20:57

big Accusation yeah, one of the biggest

20:59

I think and again not talked about enough

21:01

on the show that the shows ever

21:03

had So how did production keep

21:05

you around and what was your thoughts when this

21:07

was being said to you knowing it was going

21:10

to be aired at some point on national television? Well,

21:12

she said that on the live show, I guess.

21:15

And I was prepped with,

21:17

hey, you're going to have

21:19

at most 15 seconds to

21:21

respond. So when that was

21:23

said to me, I said, no,

21:26

I can't go into detail. This is

21:28

a live show. I have

21:30

to just deny this because it wasn't the anyways,

21:32

but I understand that she was hurt and um

21:34

and her and I have talked since and we've

21:36

made amends so you know I I'm not I'm

21:38

not gonna fault her for what she said but

21:40

uh I was basically told you a 15 seconds

21:42

for whatever she says and so when she said

21:44

that my brain was like computing and I'm like

21:46

there's literally nothing else you can say in this

21:49

time frame um other than no that's not

21:51

true so I said that and that was it

21:53

and you know I was it was very you

21:55

know it sucked because then everyone online you know

21:57

and this is still the narrative I see

21:59

is like Clayton just said what he needed to

22:01

say to sleep with these women. And

22:03

that was so false. Like, I didn't have

22:05

to sleep with any of those women

22:07

and also like, listen, I've never claimed to

22:09

be a saint. You

22:11

know, I have a past and I'll just

22:13

say like I've never, you know, it's not

22:15

like I was desperate to finally be intimate

22:17

with a woman like I'd never been before.

22:20

So, you know, that was like the narrative

22:22

they got spun was like Clayton saying whatever

22:24

he needs to say to get these women

22:26

in bed. And I'm like, that's ridiculous. Like, That's

22:28

stupid. If I was going to actually get engaged

22:30

at the end of the show, which I opened my

22:33

mind up to, I said, yeah, I'll do it.

22:35

But if I'm going to get engaged, I

22:37

need to make sure that we're sexually compatible. If

22:39

we're going to walk out of here being boyfriend

22:41

and girlfriend, then yeah, I don't need to be

22:44

intimate. But if I'm actually going to propose, and

22:46

this is serious to me, I don't care TV

22:48

or not, if I'm going to propose with a

22:50

ring, this is serious. So I need to make

22:52

sure there's sexual compatibility. So second, I

22:54

made that decision that I was ready to get down

22:56

on one knee, that's

22:58

where I was like, okay, hey, I'm going

23:00

to go explore these relationships fully. And each of

23:02

the women said that to me verbatim. I

23:04

want you to explore the relationships fully as I

23:06

walked into overnights. That was said by every

23:08

all three of those women going into that next

23:10

weekend. So I was like, okay, well, you're

23:12

telling me to explore the relationships fully as I

23:14

walk into overnights. I feel like you're without

23:16

saying it, you're telling me what you're okay with.

23:19

That's the assumption I made. And I don't know. Then

23:22

based on their responses, I guess it wasn't, you

23:24

know, I took it the wrong way. But if

23:26

you tell a man that I think he perceives

23:28

a bit differently than a woman potentially, or at

23:30

least I did. Yeah, this is tough

23:32

stuff, Ben. What is your take? I

23:34

mean, I think, well, one, I want

23:36

to comment on the 15 seconds to respond.

23:39

That is just a spot -on scenario that

23:41

happens on this show. Like, it just

23:43

does. Like, hey, we're going to put you

23:45

on the live show. Just want to

23:47

let you know, like, this is going to

23:49

get kind of ugly for a bit,

23:51

and you're going to have 15 seconds to

23:54

say something to, like, pretty much, like...

23:56

the conversation. You're like, no. So I just

23:58

want to make note that for any

24:00

listener as we talk about some of the

24:02

behind the scenes here without breaking our

24:04

NDAs. That is a very common thing. It

24:06

means it's very real. It's not edited

24:09

to make it look like it was only

24:11

15 seconds. No, you have 15 seconds

24:13

to explain how much you actually cared about

24:15

this person. That's the

24:17

first thought. I think my thought

24:19

as the lead is, as a

24:21

former lead when it comes to

24:23

fantasy Swedes and intimacy. I

24:26

mean, I think Clayton, the only thing I would say was

24:28

like, you should have asked for not, for

24:30

no other reason than mostly so that

24:32

what happened at the end of your show

24:35

didn't happen, like clarity. Like, what do

24:37

you exactly mean by that? Like, hey, this

24:39

is, you know, very, a

24:41

very like thrown up, like I'm still kind

24:43

of confused. I'm feeling things for all of you.

24:45

Clarity probably wouldn't have been helpful there. And

24:48

that's on you. Like that's not a production thing.

24:50

That's not an editing thing. That's on you as the

24:52

lead to say, okay, what

24:54

do you think happens in this situation? Right? What

24:56

are we good about here as a couple? Yeah.

24:59

And you didn't. And that's probably where

25:01

the mistake was made and why

25:03

the feelings were hurt. I also think,

25:05

and goodness gracious, we love Rachel

25:08

so much on this podcast. I

25:10

think you had three really big

25:12

personalities at the end of your

25:14

season. Really strong.

25:17

outspoken people, women. And

25:20

I think they were just gonna

25:22

say what they felt and what

25:24

they were thinking, no matter what,

25:26

because that's who they are as

25:28

people. And I think

25:30

you were the common denominating target.

25:32

And I think it was a

25:34

really hard situation for you to

25:36

go through because you had three

25:38

great people, but three big personalities

25:40

that were outspoken. And that, that's

25:42

tough. It's tough when two of them

25:44

are gonna be upset, like really upset with you.

25:47

Yeah, I mean, that's a good, I mean, yes, they're

25:49

very powerful personalities, each of them, each of them

25:51

are doing really well in their own ways. And some

25:53

of them are, you know, really blown up in

25:55

the reality TV world. And some are just making, you

25:57

know, they're still doing really great with brand partnerships. But

26:00

yeah, they're, I mean, you see, like they're

26:02

still years later. Um, very

26:04

prominent in their respective fields. So, uh,

26:06

it's, yeah, I mean, it's a good

26:08

spot on assessment. Um, and they, you

26:10

know, we're unapologetically themselves. And so when

26:12

they had the moment, they're like, I'm

26:14

going to speak my mind and they

26:16

did. And they had the right to

26:18

do that. So, but you're, you're spot

26:20

on. Yeah. I also, accountability, I could

26:22

have always asked more questions and I've

26:25

learned that. So it's good. See you're

26:27

learning. I think that sometimes the producers

26:29

know the lead better than sometimes the

26:31

lead knows themselves at this point. And

26:33

they order the last three contestants in

26:35

a certain way when it comes to

26:37

fantasy suites to really mess with your

26:39

mind. I feel maybe just as a

26:41

viewer, tell me if I'm wrong, that

26:43

like inside you knew that it was

26:45

going to be Susie. And then they

26:47

intentionally made it so that she would

26:49

be last that week. to really mess

26:52

with you. All right. I can talk

26:54

about this part because they did let

26:56

me. I said it on a podcast

26:58

like two years ago, and then I

27:00

was like, you guys can cut that

27:02

out. And they left it in and

27:04

production had cleared it. I can say

27:06

this was switched. Suzy was supposed

27:08

to be first. And

27:10

I said I wanted to

27:12

go first because I was the most in love

27:14

with her. And so I said, hey,

27:17

I'm pretty certain unless she hits me with

27:19

something political or she says something that's like a

27:21

deal breaker in the fancy suites. And I

27:23

didn't say I'm not really political. But like if

27:25

she if there's something she says or does,

27:27

or if we have no sexual compatibility, like,

27:29

then I can move forward with the

27:31

other two women, you know, because it's not

27:33

meant to be. But if all goes

27:35

well, on the overnights, then

27:38

I will, you know, basically

27:40

end it right there. And

27:42

so I was, yeah, most in love with her,

27:44

but I had love, you know, and with the other

27:46

women as well. It just wasn't as strong at

27:48

that point. I was like, I'm close to making a

27:51

decision. But I guess I'm still the door still

27:53

open if things go wrong on overnights with Susie. And

27:56

they weren't going to have that. They

27:58

said, no, we're putting her third. And

28:01

so they said, you've kept an open mind.

28:03

So keep an open mind with these women. And

28:05

I said, well, what happens if she's not OK

28:07

with like what happens in the fan suite?

28:09

It's like, well, they said that you can strip

28:11

or lay ships fully. So I was like,

28:13

OK, yeah, that's true. So I was like, all

28:15

right, I'll do it. We'll put her

28:17

third. And that's

28:19

what happens. See, this

28:21

is what we've kind of

28:23

talked about is there is

28:26

people will argue and we go back and

28:28

forth on how much editing actually exists to

28:30

make things look different than they are. I

28:32

always said the manipulation or this those that

28:34

kind of like God scenario that production is

28:36

looking down from a camera up above saying,

28:38

no, we're going to move the puzzle piece

28:40

here because we think this is how this

28:42

story could play out. That happens a lot

28:44

more. And I actually find

28:46

it fascinating. Personally, I think

28:48

it is it does make

28:50

as use of reference good TV.

28:53

Is it healthy? Is it fair? All those

28:55

things we could argue and go back

28:58

and forth on. However, it's the

29:00

response of the people in the scenario that kind

29:02

of make or break if their story is going

29:04

to come out true or not, or if it's

29:06

going to come out the way they want it

29:08

to or not. Clayton, you

29:11

went through this whole

29:13

process. You lived it. We've talked

29:15

about mostly with the final three, kind

29:17

of the scenarios that existed, also with Chanel

29:19

a little bit at the beginning. When

29:22

you were in it,

29:24

was there ever a moment

29:26

that you thought, oh

29:29

my goodness, this is going

29:31

to be really bad? Like, I'm

29:33

gonna watch this back on national television.

29:35

And this is gonna be really

29:37

bad. Or were you in it and

29:39

you're like, this is a beautiful

29:41

love story coming true and people are

29:43

gonna love to watch it? No,

29:45

it flipped

29:48

when... It was okay, there

29:50

was drama, but it wasn't anything I felt

29:52

like I couldn't recover from or that

29:54

wasn't going to be overwhelming. But

29:56

at the point when I,

29:58

after Gabby and Rachel met

30:01

my family and I made

30:03

the decision to pursue Susie,

30:05

even though she was gone

30:07

at that moment, there

30:09

was a producer that was off

30:11

camera and they looked at me

30:13

and said, If you do this,

30:15

you will not be liked by

30:17

at least half the audience. You

30:19

will be hated. We

30:21

can protect you. We've been able to

30:23

protect you. But at this point, if you

30:25

make this decision, we can no longer

30:28

protect you. And my response for

30:30

Baden was, I don't give a f what

30:32

people think. I'm doing what's best for

30:34

me. And my heart is telling me to

30:36

follow this. And then they looked at

30:38

me and said, OK, well, just know that

30:40

from here on out, we cannot protect

30:42

you. And I was that and I knew

30:44

at that point it was a very tense moment. It

30:46

was a and they yelled at me

30:48

and I yelled back at them and and

30:50

it was like all right and I

30:52

made my decision and that's when I knew

30:54

I was like yeah this is gonna

30:56

probably be bad you know because it was

30:58

very tense and at that point there

31:00

was not as much communication amongst me and

31:02

the producers it was the last you

31:04

know that was what four days left in

31:06

the season it was basically like Let's just

31:08

get to the finish line. I hate

31:11

you all. You don't like me. Let's

31:13

just finish this. But then I was like, Clayton,

31:15

the danger is now you have pissed them off.

31:18

And you're not on the same team anymore,

31:20

it feels like. And now they can go

31:22

edit a season. So now you're at the

31:24

mercy of whatever they choose to edit and

31:26

what you've put out there. But yeah, that

31:28

moment was that's when I knew things were

31:30

going to go south. Do you think that

31:32

the edit could have been romantic? Well,

31:34

put it this way. I mean, and this is where, again, I give

31:36

them credit. Had Susie went first

31:38

in Fancy Suites, let's just say I would have,

31:40

you know, chosen her, the show would have

31:42

been a boring ass show. Instead, what everyone got

31:44

was the ending that that was created, which

31:46

was like, I would say a very entertaining season

31:48

and was very talked about. And yeah, I

31:50

was, you know, painted as the villain and attacked

31:52

and all that. But it made for really

31:54

interesting television. And a lot of people talked about

31:57

it. a, from a standpoint of like show

31:59

success, I know the show, you know, I was

32:01

told the producers were all high five and

32:03

at the after party at the end of it

32:05

all, like we just, you know, really put

32:07

together a spectacle and they did. So, you know,

32:09

like they did a great job. And at

32:11

my expense, it's like, yeah, I got to take

32:13

some accountability. It's like you, I walked on

32:15

that show and I was ignorant and it was

32:17

just like, I'm just going to be me,

32:19

you know, and, and, and I was moldable and

32:22

they easily puppeted around at points because I

32:24

didn't have the confidence and self love to put

32:26

my foot down. So again, like

32:28

I take accountability for that. Ultimately, yeah,

32:30

there could have been a happy ending. I could

32:32

have been, you know, I don't, I can't say

32:34

I would have ever had like a golden, you

32:36

know, bachelor at it. Like, you know, I don't,

32:39

and the people didn't like me from the get

32:41

go. They wondered why I was chosen, but they

32:43

could have absolutely had a ending where if, you

32:45

know, Suzy went first and the fancy suites all

32:47

went, well, boom, like we could

32:49

have walked out, you know, holding hands, walking off into

32:51

the sunset and everyone's like, I didn't really love

32:53

like him as a bachelor, but whatever, they're happy. It

32:55

could have been a completely different outcome. In

33:02

2020, a group

33:04

of young women in a tidy

33:06

suburb of New York City found

33:09

themselves in an AI -fuelled nightmare. Someone

33:12

was posting photos.

33:14

It was just me naked. Well, not

33:16

me, but me with someone else's body

33:18

parts on my body parts that looked

33:21

exactly like my own. I wanted to

33:23

throw up. I wanted to scream. It

33:25

happened in Levittown, New York. But

33:27

reporting this series took us through

33:29

the darkest corners of the internet

33:31

and to the front lines of

33:33

a global battle against deep fake

33:35

pornography. This shouldn't be

33:38

illegal, but what is this? This

33:40

is a story about a technology

33:42

that's moving faster than the law and

33:44

about vigilantes trying to stem the

33:46

tide. I'm Margie Murphy.

33:48

and I'm Olivia Carville. This

33:50

is Levitown, a new podcast

33:52

from iHeart Podcasts, Bloomberg and

33:55

Kaleidoscope. Listen to Levitown

33:57

on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find

33:59

it on the iHeart Radio

34:01

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

34:03

get your podcasts. Every

34:05

single day, we are given a

34:07

choice. We can either bring

34:10

heaven down or bring hell

34:12

up. Welcome to Bring Heaven Down,

34:14

the podcast where faith meets

34:16

everyday life and the presence of

34:18

God becomes real right where

34:20

you are. Each day on Bring

34:22

Heaven Down, we will dive

34:24

into the truth of God's Word

34:26

with open hearts and open

34:28

hands. Because heaven isn't just

34:30

a distant place, it's a

34:32

promise we can carry into our

34:35

homes, our work, our relationships,

34:37

even our struggles. Bring Heaven Down

34:39

will take Bible verses and

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apply them to your life. Romans

34:43

15 13 says may the

34:45

God of hope fill you with

34:47

all joy and peace as

34:49

you trust in him That's our

34:51

prayer for you that bring

34:53

heaven down becomes a daily reminder

34:56

that God is near He

34:58

is good and he is working

35:00

in your life Even when

35:02

it doesn't feel that way listen

35:04

to bring heaven down on

35:06

the iHeart radio app Apple podcast

35:08

or wherever you get your

35:10

podcasts Let's bring heaven a little

35:12

closer together. So

35:18

you mentioned that we didn't really know

35:20

you from Michelle's season that you were

35:22

plucked out of obscurity. Do you think

35:24

that there's sometimes in their head, like

35:26

I thought, oh, they can

35:28

be more malleable, there can be

35:30

more easily manipulated because they

35:32

didn't get further along

35:34

the Bachelorette process because there was

35:37

you, there was Grant, and

35:39

there was Matt James in recent memory.

35:41

You were just kind of plucked. You

35:43

had no experience. And,

35:45

you know, so you're just a play toy

35:47

to them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

35:49

I think that was absolutely a part of

35:51

it in their decision making was, for one,

35:53

OK, he looks the part, you know, and

35:55

primarily they cast a lead of that's usually

35:57

white and over six foot. So I hit

35:59

those markers and then it was like, Oh,

36:01

but they, I mean, they psych out the

36:03

eval me. I mean, they did a full

36:05

psych eval, very, very deep criminal background check.

36:07

I mean, they knew me, like you said

36:09

at one point earlier, better than I likely

36:11

knew myself. And so they knew exactly what

36:13

they were getting. You know, they're like,

36:15

we got a guy that looks the part, but we

36:17

can basically pull him into certain

36:19

directions and scenarios and it's gonna you know

36:22

if we need to we can create chaos

36:24

and they did and like that's they I

36:26

know for a fact that's half the reason

36:28

they chose me was because they're like this

36:30

guy looks strong -willed and looks confident and

36:32

looks the part but like we can basically

36:34

hop in his body and control him and

36:36

and and you know and I allowed them

36:38

to I mean, I basically didn't stand my

36:40

ground at points when I could out because

36:42

I was fearful of upsetting them and fearful

36:44

of losing the role of the bachelor or

36:46

fearful of, you know, yeah, basically being, you

36:48

know, seen as a reject in their eyes.

36:50

I wanted their approval, like I wanted the

36:52

girls approval, like I wanted the audiences approval.

36:54

So, you know, I did everything in my

36:56

power to stay on their good terms. And

36:58

there are points where I was like, hey,

37:00

I don't really want to do this, but

37:02

I don't want to piss them off. So,

37:05

you know, you're It's

37:07

a good point. Well, I have two

37:09

things to say. One is I

37:11

100 % know or I don't know.

37:13

I believe strongly that they know us

37:15

better than we know ourselves. I've

37:18

been in two scenarios behind the scenes

37:20

in a production room where they have accurately

37:22

predicted somebody's like big life choices spot

37:24

on that that person would have never known

37:26

they were going to choose like two

37:28

years later. Yes. And I was like, oh,

37:30

that can't be true. And then it

37:33

happens. And I'm like, how did you guys

37:35

know this? This is very creepy. This

37:37

is probably the part that I don't want

37:39

to think about too much because it

37:41

gets too Truman Show -esque. I was about

37:43

to bring up Truman Show. I watched that

37:45

and someone said, watch it high. And

37:47

that's like my one vice's weed. So, um,

37:51

well, it's not my only vice, but I, I

37:53

was like, okay, so I watched it. Oh my

37:55

gosh. I was like, from that point forward, I

37:57

was like paranoid. I'm like, yeah. Is that freak

37:59

show? Am I going to open up my door

38:01

over here and someone's going to run by like,

38:03

damn it, he was supposed to open like catch

38:05

someone. They know something. Yeah, this

38:07

is the deep state that everybody seems to

38:09

be wanting to fight right now. It's

38:12

the bachelor world and whatever they know about

38:14

us, there is something weird that they know

38:16

somehow some way. Ah, then you're going down

38:18

some you're going down a path, but I'm

38:20

kind of I'm in the AI and all

38:22

that and they're out and all this weird

38:24

stuff. Yeah. Listen, that's a conversation another time.

38:26

But yeah, there's there's there's something. How did

38:28

they know that I was going to do

38:30

that? And yeah, yeah, you're

38:32

spot on, man, they can predict stuff because

38:35

they psychoanalyzed us with some of the best

38:37

minds in the in the business. They

38:39

had us, you know, basically talk to

38:41

them every single day. They had me to

38:43

talk about my journal entries. I mean, everything

38:45

I shared with them at all points, you

38:47

know, so it's like they knew exactly where

38:50

I was at. They knew the rankings of

38:52

the women because it was like One to

38:54

30, where do each of these girls stand? So

38:57

you had a little board, you know,

38:59

and this moved from six to four.

39:01

It's like, I had a, I had

39:03

like a little, uh, Rolodex of their

39:05

pictures and they'd have me move the

39:07

pictures around. But they gave me a

39:10

court board too. Yeah. With the names

39:12

on it. Clayton, you are one of,

39:14

we have to close here. You were

39:16

one of four bachelors since my time.

39:18

No, three. So you're one of three

39:20

that did not ask any advice going

39:22

into your season. Um, so

39:25

I think what has there been

39:27

10, nine of you? So yeah, you

39:30

are one of three who did not

39:32

want any of my help, which is

39:34

fine. So the question is why did

39:36

you not want maybe my help, but

39:38

that would make sense if you asked

39:40

other people for insight. And then I'd

39:42

be like, that's great, but either you

39:44

asked nobody or you didn't ask me.

39:47

Uh, and maybe we could have

39:49

prepped you, bachelors of the

39:51

past. to say, hey, don't be super

39:53

malleable. Try to stay afoot, like a

39:55

step ahead of them. They're gonna

39:57

do this stuff. You can put your foot down and say

39:59

no. If you find

40:02

yourself in a situation where all three are,

40:04

you know, in the

40:06

fantasy suites with you, like, here's maybe how you navigate

40:08

it. But you did, I mean,

40:10

you did it with me. So did you with anybody? And

40:12

if not, why? No, the

40:14

only person that I got advice

40:16

from was Michelle because they brought

40:18

her on Like the first day

40:20

of the show which they showed

40:22

on like a YouTube clip or

40:24

the channel But never like I

40:27

think they've never put it on

40:29

like the actual televised show And

40:31

she came and the advice I

40:33

think she gave me was just

40:35

basically Just be open like or

40:37

don't they take things too seriously

40:39

and just understand that like you're

40:41

like like I can't really give

40:43

you advice. It's kind of what she said. It

40:45

was like, you're just going to have to, your

40:48

experience will be unique from mine and you're your

40:50

own unique person and your perspective will, you know,

40:52

dictate the outcome of this show. And

40:54

I wanted her to give me like, well,

40:56

give me actual line items of things that

40:58

I need to watch out for. And she

41:00

was like, I really can't because it could

41:02

influence you. And, you know, basically it was

41:04

like, You just gotta be you right and

41:06

so Then she gave me some other advice.

41:08

I can't remember but that was the one

41:10

that I was like, okay Like I that's

41:12

there's really no like hard and fast yet

41:14

rule number one don't do this rule number

41:16

two don't do this But then it also

41:19

came into play that I didn't ask other

41:21

people because I Couple things I didn't want

41:23

to be swayed by somebody I was like

41:25

I want to go into this experience with

41:27

like no influence, because I

41:29

thought that Except the producers who

41:31

would be influencing you from

41:33

the start. The only influence you

41:36

wanted was from the production team. They

41:38

influenced me as much as they did subtly, right?

41:40

Like I wasn't aware of it because it was

41:42

my first, I never really watched the show. I

41:44

didn't know what it was, but like I didn't

41:46

know the behind the scenes. So I was like,

41:48

I'll be able to, you know, navigate

41:50

this environment, but I don't want any type of

41:52

influence. I didn't know that they were going to

41:54

be stepping in at points, which you guys would

41:56

have told me how to ask. All that being

41:59

said, I would,

42:01

I'm glad it went the way that it went

42:03

because that was the journey that was meant

42:05

for me. I am happy with

42:07

who I am today. I needed a waking

42:09

up. I needed to realize that people

42:11

will step in and take advantage of you

42:13

and people like I needed to grow

42:15

up. I needed to wise up. I

42:18

needed to become what I am

42:20

today and I wouldn't have become

42:22

that had I had been fed

42:24

an incredible experience on a silver

42:26

platter. If I would have gotten

42:29

the golden boy at it, some

42:31

bachelors do. I'm like,

42:33

I'm like, died. This is he's the hero,

42:35

whatever. Like, if I would have gotten that, then

42:37

I would have just kept going with my

42:39

into my the things that are my weaknesses and

42:41

my and things that needed improvement. I just

42:43

never addressed. So instead, I had all of my

42:45

weaknesses and areas improvement put under a microscope

42:47

and blast it out for the entire universe is

42:49

to critique me on And that's where I

42:51

was like, cool, okay, I lack emotional intelligence. Okay,

42:53

well, I guess I should go acquire it.

42:55

So I went and did that. And I did

42:57

lack emotional intelligence. I grew up with two

42:59

brothers, no sisters. We never talked about our emotions

43:01

in my household. It was my dad was

43:03

old school, love him to death, you know, but

43:05

like we grew up in an old school

43:07

environment. So like I had no emotional intelligence. I

43:09

only had one girlfriend prior to that show.

43:11

So like I was not well versed on how

43:13

to interact with like women, you know, as

43:15

much as I wanted to be. So like, but

43:17

none of that would have ever come to

43:19

light had I you know, basically walked out of

43:21

there and had a big old pat on

43:23

the back and looked like, you know, the hero

43:25

of the show. No, it's like, I needed

43:27

to be all that stuff to be highlighted and

43:29

it was. So I'm glad it went the

43:31

way that it went. I think you would offer

43:33

me great advice. I just made the decision

43:35

to not let anyone influence me. So I take,

43:37

I take nothing. I just wondered as you,

43:39

as you were talking, I was like, you know,

43:41

what could have helped you here? I mean,

43:43

it was a nice like Sean Lo call to

43:45

say, Hey, buddy, like, how do I do

43:47

this? Yeah, you know, most people don't call me.

43:51

So that's, which is funny. I, but I, they do

43:53

call me when things go wrong. That's the funny

43:55

thing when like, it's like, when you want to go

43:57

to talk to somebody about, you know, how do

43:59

I deal with this adversity? I'm like, I'm your guy.

44:01

Yeah. Who is your publicist? Uh,

44:05

management company. Give me a name. Uh,

44:07

Clayton, we really appreciate you coming on

44:09

the day. Thanks for talking about, uh,

44:11

your time on the show and some

44:13

of these big scenarios that, you know,

44:15

we're hard to break down maybe when

44:17

they're immediate. And like right afterwards, you

44:19

can't just say like, yes, this is where my

44:21

mind was at, or maybe this is what I didn't

44:23

like or like, or this is what production was

44:25

telling me. I think it's really good for

44:27

the listener. Here's the hope that the listener is

44:29

now tune in to the show and know it

44:31

a little better. But as

44:34

we said, this is a whole new production

44:36

team. We don't know what

44:38

the show is gonna look like from

44:40

here on out. It might be

44:42

unrecognizable to all of us, but wait

44:44

and see. Hey, Clayton, thanks for

44:46

coming on Infamous. Thanks, guys. Thanks,

44:49

Clayton. See you in paradise. Bye. In

45:01

2020 a group of young women

45:03

found themselves in an AI-fueled nightmare.

45:05

Someone was posting photos. It was

45:07

just me making, well, not me,

45:10

but me with someone else's body

45:12

part. This is Levertown, a new

45:14

podcast from I Heart Podcasts, Bloomberg,

45:16

and kaleidoscope about the rise of

45:18

deep-fate pornography and the battle to

45:21

stop it. Listen to Levert Town

45:23

on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast, find

45:25

it on the I Heart Radio

45:27

app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you

45:29

get your podcasts. We

45:33

can either bring heaven

45:35

down or bring hell. up.

45:38

Welcome to Bring Heaven Down, the

45:40

podcast where faith meets everyday

45:42

life and the presence of God

45:44

becomes real right where you

45:46

are. Each day on Bring Heaven

45:48

Down, we will dive into

45:50

the truth of God's word because

45:52

heaven isn't just a distant

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place. It's a promise we can

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carry into our homes, our

45:58

work, our relationships, even our struggles.

46:00

Listen to Bring down on

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