0:00

One of the skills that

0:02

I've noticed among all these

0:05

great sales people that I've

0:07

interviewed that I really haven't

0:09

talked a lot about is

0:12

their ability to build conversations

0:14

that aren't about the transaction,

0:17

aren't about the product, aren't

0:19

about them, aren't about their

0:21

company, and why is it

0:24

so important? It seems almost

0:26

trivial. And I'm not

0:29

talking about sports and

0:31

weather. I'm not talking

0:33

about small talk. I'm

0:35

talking about, most people

0:37

would call this industry

0:39

talk, networking talk, talk

0:41

about their business, curiosity

0:44

about them, their career. And

0:46

most of you are saying like,

0:48

yeah, I think I do some of

0:50

that. Well, try this

0:53

experiment, just an experiment.

0:55

Call up one of your...

0:57

Prospects. A deal that

0:59

hasn't closed yet. A new account.

1:01

Meaning that they haven't bought

1:04

anything yet. And don't talk

1:06

about the transaction. Don't

1:08

talk about you. Don't talk about

1:10

your company or your product.

1:13

And only ask questions about

1:15

them. And see how it feels.

1:17

It's probably different,

1:19

isn't it? Because they're going

1:21

to push it to the transaction.

1:24

And that's where it gets

1:26

us. because we feel like, oh,

1:28

they want to talk about the

1:31

transaction. Well, maybe they do,

1:33

or maybe they just think that's

1:35

the purpose of the call. It's

1:38

one of the purposes of

1:40

the call. It shouldn't be the

1:42

whole call. Now, in today's example,

1:44

we have somebody who

1:47

sells, doesn't sell, basically,

1:49

works in the market

1:51

of recycling catalytic

1:53

converters. Now you

1:55

can just imagine

1:57

how glamorous that is.

2:00

And how interesting it would

2:02

be to talk about

2:04

all the issues in that

2:06

transaction. And he gets

2:08

into how he handles this,

2:10

not only in one -on

2:12

-one selling, but selling to

2:14

SMB and companies, corporations. Now,

2:18

a lot of us say, well,

2:20

why is this so valuable, Brian? It's

2:23

because we want people to

2:26

want to talk with us, not

2:28

just have to. Now,

2:30

imagine your call or ID

2:32

shows up on your prospect's

2:35

phone. If

2:37

they don't have any news or

2:39

questions about the transaction, do they

2:41

take the call? What's

2:44

going through their head is, do

2:47

I want to talk with this

2:49

person? Or will it feel like

2:51

an interrogation or a check -in

2:53

call as opposed to a value -add

2:55

call? They'd

2:57

probably put your voicemail if they

3:00

don't feel that way. That's why it's

3:02

so important. Now, how

3:04

do you get good at this? Well,

3:07

you get good at it like anything

3:09

else. You know, you kind of plan

3:11

for it. You practice it a little

3:13

bit. You ask

3:15

how other people do it. You

3:18

come up with great questions,

3:20

maybe some updates, maybe some analogies,

3:22

some stories, some case studies

3:24

that don't have to do with

3:26

just you and your product,

3:28

have to do with what's going

3:30

on in the industry. And

3:34

what you'll find if

3:37

you get good at

3:39

this is that people

3:41

will want to talk

3:43

with you. And the

3:45

crazy thing is it

3:47

expands the transaction. It

3:49

doesn't eclipse the transaction.

3:52

Now, I've been working

3:54

with brevitypitch .com on

3:56

this particular drill called

3:58

industry knowledge. And what

4:00

it does is it

4:02

takes all the work

4:04

out of. it for you. It gets

4:07

you comfortable with answering questions and asking questions

4:09

about industry knowledge. The point isn't whether the

4:11

answer is 100% accurate or not, meaning

4:13

it's not true false. It's much

4:15

more conversational, where

4:17

it's okay not to have the

4:19

answer. People think they have to

4:22

have the answer. Sometimes it's

4:24

great not to have the

4:26

answer, because it spurs more

4:28

conversation. But you have

4:31

to be comfortable with that.

4:33

Now, I've worked on this drill

4:35

on my way to my meetings in

4:37

my car instead of listening

4:40

to Howard Stern. It may

4:42

not be as funny, but it

4:44

is sure is more productive.

4:46

So if you want to get good

4:49

at it, oh, did I tell you

4:51

it's free? Did I tell you that?

4:53

Go to Brevity Pitch.com.

4:55

Get on the waiting list

4:58

for Brevity Play. It works

5:00

on your phone, no need to

5:02

authenticate or anything, no app to

5:04

download, any of that stuff, anywhere

5:07

you can take a phone call,

5:09

you can practice your sales. Imagine

5:11

how good you could get. But

5:14

why would you want to become

5:16

good at sales? I don't know, it

5:18

pays better. Here we go. Hey

5:25

Cliff, thanks for joining us today

5:28

as we getting started. It gives

5:30

a little background on yourself Okay,

5:32

Brian. Yeah, no happy to be

5:34

here as far as a background

5:36

goes I'm gonna say I've been

5:38

in sales for most of my

5:40

career and that's going back Oh

5:42

boy Last century That sounds really

5:45

I know doesn't it doesn't it

5:47

so I got my certain politics

5:49

actually which is just a different

5:51

type of selling. Yeah, I was

5:53

working right on the hill right

5:55

right in the thick of it

5:57

all had a public relations background.

6:00

little sourd on it. Eventually

6:02

you get a little bit a

6:04

little bit cynical in the political

6:06

world and I thought I'd strike

6:08

out into the private sector where

6:10

all of those people skills and

6:13

the ability to understand and you

6:15

know communicate with people really came

6:17

across and and that was I

6:19

gonna say the better part of

6:22

25 years ago now. So it's

6:24

a long stretch. Well I got

6:26

to imagine in the PR business.

6:28

The big challenge is thinking like

6:30

the client, right? Figuring that what

6:33

they want. Absolutely. Understanding what the

6:35

client is trying to say. And

6:37

from the PR side of things,

6:39

being able to communicate that in

6:42

a simple way. And that's I

6:44

think one of the most important

6:46

things that a lot of sales

6:48

people miss today. They have complex

6:50

and I'm going to say very

6:53

dynamic products that they try and

6:55

get into the minutiae of with

6:57

their clientele and they miss it.

6:59

They just missed, you know, they're

7:02

talking over their client's head and

7:04

the relationship doesn't develop because they

7:06

think you're smarter than them or

7:08

they think you're just know it

7:11

all and not interested in what's

7:13

really important to them. So, you

7:15

know, these are things that I've

7:17

taken out of sales over a

7:19

number of different, I'm going to

7:22

say, you know, environments. So my

7:24

first start, I sold cars for

7:26

Ford. and I loved selling cars

7:28

for Ford. They had such a

7:31

great sales path that helped you

7:33

interact with the client in a

7:35

very orchestrated way. The only trouble

7:37

with car sales in my opinion

7:39

is that you don't have enough

7:42

opportunities. They're early limited to people

7:44

who were walking through the door.

7:46

Now that's fine. Yeah, you don't

7:48

have control over that. But once

7:51

I had them, I mean, I

7:53

had a 33% first-time closed-time closed

7:55

ratio. People came in and something,

7:57

they would pay a bit. more

8:00

for the vehicle, they get a

8:02

little less for their trade, but

8:04

man, they got the whole, they

8:06

got the whole deal, they got

8:08

the service, they got my attention,

8:11

they knew exactly what their car

8:13

was gonna do for them, they

8:15

had the right features and options.

8:17

You know, these things are key

8:20

in sales, and they would tell

8:22

me what their objections were. It

8:24

was fantastic. You know, if you

8:26

have a good process, it's a

8:28

wonderful job to have. And what

8:31

you like about sales versus PR.

8:33

or politics. I love the hunt.

8:35

I love the clothes. I love

8:37

working with people. It's a little

8:40

bit more tangible, isn't it? It

8:42

is, because I mean, you can

8:44

see it in numbers. You see

8:46

the numbers go up. I also

8:48

like the relationships that develop, because

8:51

I have a, you know, my

8:53

sales over the years developed from

8:55

cars. radio which is truly intangible

8:57

by the way selling radio ads

9:00

truly intangible you don't have you

9:02

can't show somebody the effects of

9:04

it the last 15 years I've

9:06

been in catalytic converters and I'm

9:09

actually a buyer if you believe

9:11

that I'm not a seller and

9:13

it's a very very complex field

9:15

where it's auto catalyst for finding

9:17

it really is a very different

9:20

precise field that's highly competitive, but

9:22

as you get to know people

9:24

in the business in the car

9:26

recycling industry, in the metal recycling

9:29

industry, these relationships are fantastic. And

9:31

there are people that I want

9:33

to spend time with, there are

9:35

associations that I enjoy, and it's

9:37

really become a much more, I'm

9:40

going to say, teaching role, it's

9:42

a partnership role. And there are

9:44

things about the business that, and

9:46

I think this again, it travels

9:49

over all the sales realm that

9:51

when I become more of a

9:53

partner, a trusted, a trusted ally.

9:55

with a customer, these, these roots

9:57

become really strong and they don't

10:00

leave. So you actually end up

10:02

developing a strength of relationship that

10:04

people rely on you for a

10:06

service and they come to you

10:09

with these questions, you know, and

10:11

they trust you. You know, that

10:13

to me is, it's fantastic. And

10:15

we both make money. That's the

10:18

most important part. Crazy, isn't it?

10:20

You know, I love, I love

10:22

when you do the hatside ways

10:24

thing and you get it, you

10:26

know, I love that character on

10:29

your on your videos because it

10:31

reminds me of all my, it

10:33

reminds me of all my competitors.

10:35

I'm going to give me the

10:38

most, I'm the best, I got

10:40

all that, and that is just

10:42

not the way to win. The

10:44

way to win. Acting like a

10:46

salesperson, what you're talking about is

10:49

being a salesperson. Absolutely. So one

10:51

of my biggest lessons and I'm

10:53

going to say it's come over

10:55

the last five to ten years

10:58

is that if I can help

11:00

my clients, I guess it's the

11:02

right way to put it, I

11:04

have to be interested in other

11:06

aspects of their business and I

11:09

have to see how the associations

11:11

that I have can actually build

11:13

and develop their key interests because

11:15

a lot of sales people I'm

11:18

going to say there's a lot

11:20

of sales people out there that

11:22

are I'm the biggest I'm the

11:24

best and they're just in it

11:27

for the sale and they just

11:29

want to have this repeat customer

11:31

you don't develop business if you're

11:33

not interested in actively involved in

11:35

sharing your networks your information and

11:38

helping me I'll give you a

11:40

real key example. Recently I was

11:42

in a meeting and with a

11:44

metal recycling yard, their interest is

11:47

coarse. And they do all kinds

11:49

of core work. Kind of the

11:51

converters are a small aspect of

11:53

what they do. In fact, a

11:55

lot of cases, converters are the.

11:58

in the business for auto recyclers

12:00

and different metal yards. They're just

12:02

a very small aspect of what

12:04

they do. Well, what turned the

12:07

interest in the sale of working

12:09

with our company was that I'm

12:11

much more interested in seeing their

12:13

business grow in the cores that

12:15

they're looking for. So I was

12:18

able to present. ourselves to them

12:20

and saying, look, we're looking for

12:22

a partner. I do want your

12:24

product because that's important. That's the

12:27

part that's important to me. But

12:29

what I think is important to

12:31

you is that you, you grow

12:33

your core business. Ching, ching, that

12:36

was, this is, this is the

12:38

radial, because they took me through

12:40

their facility. They showed me tens

12:42

of thousands of square feet of

12:44

material that had nothing to do

12:47

with my business. Nothing. It's interesting.

12:49

It's fascinating. But. people I deal

12:51

with, sell that material as well.

12:53

So absolutely I want to hook

12:56

these people together because it makes

12:58

everything stronger. And how did you

13:00

come to this realization? I mean,

13:02

was it something that you learned

13:04

along the way? Did somebody say,

13:07

hey, not just the transaction? You

13:09

know, it's been, how did I

13:11

come to it? It's over time.

13:13

Absolutely, it took some time. Cars

13:16

were just a transaction. You never

13:18

see me again. Yeah, well, four

13:20

years later, maybe, you know, if

13:22

you have a career, right, if

13:24

you have a career that long

13:27

in cars. I started to develop

13:29

this as I started to have

13:31

residual business. So when I got

13:33

into sales that required a residual

13:36

development of business of really getting

13:38

involved in an industry that required

13:40

referrals, I, the catalytic converter industry,

13:42

I got to tell you is.

13:45

Supernish. There's not a lot of

13:47

people at the top of all.

13:49

Come on, it's all glamour and...

13:51

Oh, yeah. I travel a lot

13:53

further. for work. Yeah, well, one

13:56

of the things people don't realize

13:58

that, you know, I post on

14:00

Facebook where I go, it's kind

14:02

of fine, you know, really just

14:05

for me. People are like, oh,

14:07

it's so glamorous, you travel everywhere.

14:09

I say, yeah, I traveled the

14:11

big cities and I go to

14:13

scrap yards, really in the nicest

14:16

part of town, right down town.

14:18

Oh, man, there's some pretty rough

14:20

neighborhoods, but you know what, again,

14:22

salt of the earth, I mean,

14:25

it's wonderful people that, you know,

14:27

you know, As you say, where

14:29

did I get this? The notion

14:31

of the, you know, it's important

14:33

that it's a reciprocal business. It's

14:36

right here in this industry that

14:38

it's not a one-way street. It's

14:40

not just me winning. But interestingly

14:42

enough, when I do close a

14:45

client, you know, I hold a

14:47

bit of margin. How about that?

14:49

Wow. Yeah, how about that? And

14:51

you know what? I hold the

14:54

margin and I don't mind anybody

14:56

seeing this. I want them to

14:58

see it. I want them to

15:00

know that I made some money

15:02

too. Because if I make mine,

15:05

the more I make them more

15:07

they make. We have this really

15:09

interesting, you know, I'm going to

15:11

say business that we're working with

15:14

metal markets. So we work with

15:16

platinum palladium and rhodium. These are

15:18

the three precious metal group bits

15:20

that are in converters. Our company

15:22

is different in the sense that

15:25

We actually encourage selling material at

15:27

a higher market. If that sale

15:29

goes through to a higher market,

15:31

I make more money, my client

15:34

makes more money, and there's a

15:36

real self-interest to it, and I'm

15:38

blunt about it. Because it can

15:40

sound like this interest in them

15:42

is charity, but it's really self-serving

15:45

as well, because how long can

15:47

you talk about catalytic converters? I

15:49

mean that's honestly I try to

15:51

talk very little about the ripest.

15:54

They care this much about that

15:56

and they care this much this

15:58

huge amount about them. in their

16:00

business. Yeah, absolutely. And you know

16:03

what? What's really, this is an

16:05

interesting lesson in sales. Every, I

16:07

don't care what product it is.

16:09

Everybody's got a guy. Everybody, if

16:12

you're in business for any length

16:14

of time, whatever the product you're

16:16

using, selling, doing, that business owner

16:18

has a guy. Yeah. He's been

16:20

doing business with this person for

16:22

any number of years. He thinks

16:25

he's made the best decision that

16:27

he, you know. Do you want to

16:29

make this guy feel bad about

16:31

that? Do you want to make him?

16:33

Do you want to make him feel

16:35

stupid about? How to kill a sale?

16:38

Does he really want to talk about

16:40

that? He doesn't. You probably know

16:42

five or ten things about

16:45

his business that he wants

16:47

to talk about. Absolutely.

16:49

In fact, I'm going to ask them

16:51

how things are going, how, you know,

16:53

what's your car flow, like, what's, you

16:56

know, what's happening here? Is there legislation

16:58

that's, you know, that's driving you crazy?

17:00

I mean, there's all kinds of things

17:03

that they're interested in. And again, people

17:05

love to talk about themselves. Okay. It's

17:07

their favorite topic. I know I'm a

17:09

favorite, I wish I had known that

17:12

earlier though that I'm not somebody else's

17:14

favorite topic. Yeah, I wish a lot

17:16

of the reps. Because I know a

17:18

lot of reps, they don't, they're not

17:21

talkers. And I go, all you have

17:23

to do is come up with three

17:25

great questions. And then you

17:27

start out and let them go. Absolutely.

17:31

And then it's, people tell

17:33

you exactly what they want.

17:35

They tell you exactly what's

17:37

important to them. Again, it's,

17:39

there are natural sales people

17:41

and as you say, there's

17:43

people that are not necessarily

17:45

naturals or not necessarily big

17:47

talkers. Things don't flow for them.

17:49

Yeah. The most, what I, one of the

17:52

things I wish I knew earlier, because I

17:54

had a great sales manager in radio.

17:56

He said, we pay you super

17:58

well to be uncomfortable. And it

18:00

clicked for me. It's not comfortable.

18:02

It's not comfortable, you know, finding

18:05

out about it. Talking to strangers,

18:07

getting doors. I mean, come on,

18:09

I've, I've walked into places and

18:11

I don't know how it guys.

18:13

I'm not selling anything to you.

18:15

Get out. And all, how do

18:18

you turn that around, Brian? How

18:20

you turn that around? You say,

18:22

well, tell you a lot. I'm

18:24

not here to buy anything from

18:26

you today. But tell me about

18:29

this, that or that or that.

18:31

And all of a sudden before

18:33

the end of the day, we're

18:35

leaving with the biggest load I

18:37

ever had. But that's uncomfortable. Because

18:39

it's the most basic human need

18:42

is to be understood. Absolutely. And

18:44

again, you never know what somebody

18:46

wants to be understood about until

18:48

you sit there and you listen

18:50

and you just quiet down for

18:53

a moment and ask them. In

18:55

fact, I've got a deal going

18:57

on right now. You know, it's

18:59

it's long in the making. I've

19:01

worked with the client before from

19:03

a previous from a previous company.

19:06

And it keeps stalling. Super nice

19:08

guy. I get all these kind

19:10

of, you know, yes, that aren't

19:12

with no, you know, no good

19:14

follow-up. That's a, that's a, that's

19:17

a, that's a tough lesson to

19:19

learn in sales. Easy, yes, when

19:21

you don't. Easy yeses are yet

19:23

in fact soft yeses with no

19:25

real action or follow-up are really

19:27

a no that are really a

19:30

no you know I finally you

19:32

know and again this is something

19:34

I wish I'd known earlier in

19:36

sales I just put it on

19:38

the line because the guy knows

19:41

me we're friendly he's getting a

19:43

good the soft yeses and I

19:45

said what is it what is

19:47

it what are what walls are

19:49

we hitting here that I that

19:51

I need to clarify because I've

19:54

thrown everything at you I've given

19:56

you all the, you know, all

19:58

the easiest ways to interact with

20:00

us. What is not connecting? And

20:02

now I'm just waiting for the

20:05

answer. I'll let you know how

20:07

that comes. You know, it's, but

20:09

it's okay to ask it like

20:11

that. There's nothing wrong with it

20:13

at this point. Right. Get on

20:15

the same side because you should

20:18

be there regardless. That's the, that's

20:20

the confusing thing when it happens.

20:22

We're on the same side. I

20:24

know I've got the, you know,

20:26

great, I know the services there.

20:29

I know what he needs. This

20:31

is a, this is a challenging

20:33

thing in sales. When you have

20:35

all of those components and I've

20:37

been in it long enough. I

20:39

know it's going to work for

20:42

them. So what is that, what's

20:44

going to take us to get

20:46

past the goalpost on this one?

20:48

What objections do you have when

20:50

I can tick all the boxes?

20:53

You know, maybe it's me. Would

20:55

you like another rep? I don't

20:57

know. Oh, you know, change for

20:59

people is uncomfortable, right? Oh, there

21:01

you go. And that's the next

21:03

part. And it's not just people.

21:06

This is, this is a big

21:08

corporation. So as you get into

21:10

bigger corporate selling, so I have

21:12

a real spectrum of types of

21:14

customers. I have a sole ownership,

21:17

I have partnerships, I have people

21:19

that are generational businesses, where you've

21:21

got two or three generational decision-makers

21:23

in the process. Great. I have

21:25

no history there. No, exactly. So,

21:27

you know, you're dealing with the

21:30

son, but the father or the

21:32

grandfather is going to chime in

21:34

on how he used to do

21:36

things. And, you know, then you

21:38

have the corporations and the corporations

21:41

are even slower to make change

21:43

and turn and, and it's the

21:45

corporation now, and so, may not

21:47

be me, may not be this,

21:49

may not be, it just could

21:51

be the slow boat, could be

21:54

the slow boat, you know, but

21:56

when they turn, they really, they

21:58

really turn it on, I mean,

22:00

I mean, I mean, I must

22:02

spend a huge learning curve for

22:04

you because you know cars transactional

22:07

they either buy or they don't

22:09

now you're selling to sole proprietorships

22:11

partnerships family businesses and corporations. Very

22:13

different. Absolutely. Totally. Totally. But you

22:15

know, you say that the fundamentals

22:18

of the sales process are still

22:20

there. I loved what I learned.

22:22

Ford had a fantastic training program.

22:24

Meet and greet. Assess the needs.

22:26

Get the pick. Pick the product.

22:28

Explain the product. Ask for those,

22:31

you know, preliminary, is it the

22:33

right colors or the right features

22:35

and options? Do you have a

22:37

trade? Test drive it. Put them

22:39

in, you know, get them to

22:42

get them to feel what it's

22:44

like. When you get back to

22:46

the dealership, by no means, go

22:48

straight to the deal. Taken by

22:50

the service department, buy them a

22:52

coffee, sit down, build the features,

22:55

like all of those... primary aspects

22:57

of selling apply all the time.

22:59

You cannot forget these things because

23:01

I think that's where deals are

23:03

lost actually because you don't take

23:06

somebody through and understanding what their

23:08

needs are. So that again, it's

23:10

asking questions and today I can

23:12

ask a few questions and I

23:14

can tick the boxes as I

23:16

go mentally. I don't need to,

23:19

you know, sit there and and

23:21

type it all out in a

23:23

CRM so that covering something, nothing

23:25

kills work faster than, you know,

23:27

trying to, anyhow, tick boxes. When

23:30

you know these things, and you

23:32

can actually deliver them, right? And

23:34

you're right, the transition took a

23:36

long time, and it took a

23:38

while to figure out how to

23:40

manage these different types of, I'm

23:43

going to say, customer basis, because

23:45

the sole proprietor, could be completely

23:47

different than the corp or the

23:49

or the the family business. Well

23:51

it's like the car. If a

23:54

couple comes in it's a very

23:56

different sale than if one person

23:58

comes in. And then

24:00

absolutely, if a family comes in,

24:02

or if the couple isn't getting

24:05

along. There are always some awkward

24:07

moments. But again, it's just figuring

24:09

out who's, who cares about what?

24:11

Yeah, it's about what? What am

24:13

I, who am I really selling

24:15

to? Am I selling to the

24:17

new generation? Am I selling to

24:20

the last generation? I mean, there's

24:22

any number of answers to those

24:24

questions that people will tell you.

24:26

You know, what is it? And

24:28

again, I don't think there's any

24:30

right way to ask wrong questions.

24:32

Does that make sense? It doesn't,

24:35

there's no, there's no, I'm going

24:37

to say there's just no quantifiable

24:39

question base that you can put

24:41

out there that says you have

24:43

to ask questions in this order.

24:45

I mean, it's an interaction with

24:47

people. It's got to feel authentic,

24:50

right? You know, and for you,

24:52

it sounds like they did a

24:54

good job. They broke that, that

24:56

sale down into tiny little pieces

24:58

that anyone can learn. Yep. And

25:00

probably the hardest part was not

25:02

skipping something. Probably you wanted to

25:05

skip something, right? In the beginning

25:07

for sure, you always want to

25:09

skip something. And you know what?

25:11

I had some good managers in

25:13

the day too. And they said,

25:15

well, did you do this? And

25:17

you say, well, did you do

25:20

this? And you say, take him

25:22

back to service. No, no, go

25:24

test drive him. No, no, he's

25:26

ready to buy right now. It's

25:28

done. It's a done deal. And

25:30

it's and every once in a

25:33

while that you're blowing up and

25:35

it wouldn't blow up because the

25:37

guys, the guys there on price,

25:39

he's just there and I mean,

25:41

he's just shopping you against somebody

25:43

else and it's scared. It's a

25:45

second biggest purchase of their life.

25:48

If you haven't built value into

25:50

your product and I and I

25:52

and This is for sure in

25:54

my industry today. If I haven't

25:56

built value, I'm never getting a

25:58

sale. If I haven't built the

26:00

trust, if I don't understand the

26:03

need, if I, you know, I

26:05

believe in sales and I don't

26:07

think a lot of people do.

26:09

Everybody says that you can just

26:11

ask for the sale. You can. It's

26:13

important. It's a part of it

26:15

eventually. But if I ask if,

26:18

exactly, if I asked for that

26:20

without actually taking care of all

26:22

of the necessary pieces of the

26:24

puzzle, it's a hard no and that

26:26

door might shut forever. Right, because as

26:28

salespeople that serves us, right?

26:30

Of course we just want

26:32

the transaction. But, and

26:34

B to B, they can give the

26:37

fake yes. And then you go hunting

26:39

for the real no for the

26:41

next month and a half, right? Right.

26:43

Again, so I'm too early

26:45

in the process. I haven't

26:48

actually found out what they're

26:50

looking for. To qualify, I

26:52

can say this, to qualify

26:54

asking for the sale. To close

26:56

the deal. In your corporate

26:58

example, it's like, you know there's

27:00

something there. They may not even

27:02

know what it really is. They're

27:05

apprehensive about something. What

27:07

I like, and I'm working in

27:09

corporations, got to look to, because

27:12

everybody wants to be a star.

27:14

I want to be a star, you want

27:16

to be a star in our own

27:18

industries. I want my CEO to think

27:20

that I'm the best, and so does

27:23

he. He mean it. So what is the

27:25

guy in that corporation? He wants to

27:27

he wants to be the star he

27:29

wants to be right. I love making

27:31

heroes I love finding ways to

27:33

make people shine in their own

27:35

organization and That's through association.

27:38

That's not transactional

27:40

That is not a transactional deal that and

27:42

and and again. This is one of

27:44

the things I get up in the

27:46

morning for this. I love guys that

27:48

you know say hey man Since we've

27:50

been working with you, everybody's

27:53

happy. There's no headaches in

27:55

our organization. We know accounting

27:57

is not chasing anybody. I'm

27:59

making. more money on the

28:01

product. It's really easy. And, you

28:03

know, everybody says, wow, what a

28:06

great decision you made. I can

28:08

help people make a, you know,

28:11

just, they can stand behind and

28:13

feel good about, man, that's satisfying.

28:15

And again, that's a, that's a

28:18

customer now, that's a long-term customer.

28:20

Right. And I've made a star

28:23

for it. And that's not on

28:25

your brochure. That's not one of

28:27

your features and benefits. It never

28:30

is. It never is. And again,

28:32

I think we touched on this

28:35

earlier. People want to be heard

28:37

and understood. And I also will

28:39

grow on that. They want to

28:42

be heard, understood, and they want

28:44

to look good amongst their peers.

28:47

Yeah. And they certainly don't want

28:49

to let bad. There you go.

28:51

And that's how we get referrals.

28:54

That's how we, hey, you know

28:56

what? working with Cliff's been so

28:59

easy and it's been so different

29:01

and you know not only that

29:03

he introduced me to several other

29:06

people in the in the business

29:08

and I grew my not even

29:11

the catalytic adverse I grew seven

29:13

other things really what's this guy's

29:15

number? Yeah and now what would

29:18

you wish you'd learned earlier in

29:20

your career that kind of I'm

29:23

going to say that no is

29:25

never a final answer. To take

29:27

those nose, I got to turn

29:30

them around, it's just an objection.

29:32

I'm trying to think of some

29:35

of the other things that really

29:37

keep it simple. Keep it simple.

29:39

Now, I think I'm a reasonably

29:42

intelligent guy. I understand my chosen

29:44

field now very well. I can

29:47

easily talk over it. I wish

29:49

I had known that earlier because

29:51

it's a complicated field and while

29:54

it's important to my customer base

29:56

financially, I can describe it this

29:59

way. they've got 20 things on

30:01

their list to do today and

30:03

converters are the 21st and they've

30:06

already got a guy and if

30:08

I start overtaking them and talk

30:11

about process or you know refining

30:13

an assay and this and that

30:15

in terms I mean there's a

30:18

lot of complexity in it you'll

30:20

lose them so finding again that's

30:23

if I wish I'd known that

30:25

earlier on because it's very tempting

30:27

to show somebody how smart I

30:30

am. And for you, that's much

30:32

more of an emotional skill than

30:35

it is an intellectual skill, isn't

30:37

it? Spells is an emotional maturity

30:39

game. It is not. The top

30:42

sellers out there know that it's

30:44

all about how I leave you

30:47

feeling. If I leave you feeling

30:49

good on a regular basis, you

30:51

want to be around me. You

30:54

want to phone me. You don't,

30:56

you know, there's a, I don't,

30:59

there's people I don't want to

31:01

be around. I don't give them

31:03

my business. They don't, I don't

31:06

feel good when I, you know,

31:08

when I talk to them, when

31:11

I, when I call, and I

31:13

don't have to be Mr. Congeniality

31:15

with everybody. I don't have to,

31:18

I just have to be real

31:20

and authentic and authenticantic. And curious.

31:23

Yeah, again, what makes you tick?

31:25

What's important to you? Everybody thinks

31:27

they have to be Jimmy Campbell

31:30

or something. They have to be

31:32

like this night show host. And

31:35

it's like, no, just be a

31:37

little curious, have a nice smile.

31:39

I describe myself as an extroverted

31:42

introvert. That's a good one. Yeah,

31:44

it's the truth. I mean, I

31:47

can ask the questions, I can

31:49

smile, I can get along. I

31:51

have to charge alone. You know,

31:54

I want to be quiet. I

31:56

want to have a quiet atmosphere,

31:59

but but what's a comfortable in

32:01

that, step out and you meet people

32:03

and you're asking them questions and

32:05

it is a very extroverted thing

32:07

to do for an introvert. It

32:10

is. And this is, you know, we

32:12

talked about this a little bit for

32:14

a second. Sales people who do well

32:16

get paid to feel uncomfortable.

32:19

Yeah. Whether it's so however you

32:21

want to describe that. And

32:23

I don't mean, I don't

32:25

mean morally uncomfortable. I mean,

32:27

pushing the boundaries of social

32:29

maturity. Yeah. Absolutely. Because you

32:32

naturally want to talk

32:34

about yourself. You have to

32:36

tamp that down and

32:38

be comfortable and then

32:41

show interest in someone

32:43

else. Absolutely. Ahead of

32:45

your need. Right. Your need

32:47

is to close. Ahead of. Yeah.

32:49

This is another thing that I

32:52

really wish I'd do early on

32:54

in sales. Despiration

32:56

kills a deal. Like nothing

32:58

else. I mean a desperate person.

33:00

I've related it to dating and

33:02

I want to I want to

33:05

give a 21st century answer to

33:07

this and it because it doesn't

33:09

matter if it's a guy chasing

33:11

a girl or a girl chasing

33:13

a guy or whatever. If there is

33:16

a desperation, it's just not

33:18

attractive. Nobody likes that.

33:20

They want to feel like you

33:22

want them, but they don't want

33:25

you to desperately need them. So,

33:27

you know, if my death, if

33:29

my sales case is just desperate,

33:31

if I'm just desperate to close

33:33

a deal and I'm just going

33:35

to roll over and do anything,

33:38

they've already got a

33:40

guy. They don't need me. They

33:42

don't need anything that I'm looking

33:44

to sell them. Right. Because you're

33:46

number 21. And but they do

33:48

want to talk about number one

33:51

through five. And I bet you have

33:53

an opinion. Of course I

33:55

do because I have lots of people in the

33:57

industry that I work with and I can share

33:59

information. I know a guy, I

34:02

know this guy, and I

34:04

know that guy, and you

34:06

know what, there's some interesting

34:08

industry buzz on the way

34:10

things are being done. Have

34:12

you heard about that? Because

34:14

it might make your organization

34:16

more profitable, more streamlined. Tell

34:18

you what, I can get

34:20

you in touch with him.

34:22

And in fact, he's the

34:24

one who introduced me to

34:26

this new product that we

34:28

have in our organization, and

34:30

he stays in his lane,

34:32

I stay in mine, and

34:35

if you stay in yours,

34:37

we're all gonna be rich.

34:39

Great. Hey Cliff, I really

34:41

appreciate your time today. Where

34:43

can people go to connect

34:45

and follow you? They can

34:47

certainly see me on LinkedIn,

34:49

so Cliff Hope, Accurate converter,

34:51

Accurate converter.com, would love to

34:53

hear about businesses that are

34:55

looking to do things a

34:57

little bit differently. It's called

34:59

start the conversation get the

35:01

meeting and it teaches you

35:03

how to do this with

35:05

a complete stranger. Meaning how

35:08

to build it step by

35:10

step. You can use email,

35:12

you can use the phone,

35:14

you can use social. Any

35:16

way you can communicate with

35:18

another human being. The point

35:20

is I teach you how

35:22

clients want to engage with

35:24

a stranger. Because the last

35:26

person they want to talk

35:28

to is a police officer.

35:30

The second to the last

35:32

person they want to talk

35:34

to is a salesperson. Why

35:36

not be a little bit

35:38

better than that? See, we

35:40

get such a bad rap

35:43

because it's all about us.

35:45

It's push, push, push. It's

35:47

ask, ask, ask. When it

35:49

should be give, give, and

35:51

I don't mean stupid giving.

35:53

I mean learning how to

35:55

learn about them. Everybody's core.

35:57

desire is to be understood.

35:59

That's why we call the

36:01

people who are closest to

36:03

us, the ones who get

36:05

us, that understand us, which

36:07

is an enormous building block

36:09

on trust. Now you can

36:11

ignore this. You can have

36:13

your little t-shirt that says,

36:16

only buyers for me. And

36:18

if you have that and

36:20

it works for you, congratulations.

36:22

You're probably not listening to

36:24

this podcast. Most people who

36:26

listen to a sales podcast

36:28

understand that sales is hard,

36:30

or it might be hard

36:32

where you are. So what

36:34

do you do? Go somewhere

36:36

else, that's one way. Get

36:38

better at sales, that's a

36:40

better way, because no matter

36:42

where you are, you'll still

36:44

be better at sales. And

36:46

getting good at sales is

36:49

hard. This counterintuitive, all of

36:51

it. And we don't want

36:53

to admit it. We can

36:55

see it in others, but

36:57

not in ourselves. Thanks for

36:59

listening. If you like to

37:01

learn more about sales and

37:03

becoming great at it, go

37:05

to B2B revenue.com. I have

37:07

two major courses. Start the

37:09

conversation, get the meeting, which

37:11

basically gives you this incredible

37:13

superpower of starting conversations with

37:15

strangers, which happens to be

37:17

what prospecting is, instead of

37:19

sending spam all day. If

37:21

that's what you want to

37:24

become good at it, you

37:26

can. You can. How about

37:28

closing those complex sales? Are

37:30

they closing or are they

37:32

just starting? How's that pipeline?

37:34

Everyone loves a big pipeline.

37:36

It's comfortable. But if it

37:38

doesn't close, it's just work.

37:40

Isn't it? Everything that doesn't

37:42

close is just labor. Why

37:44

not if you're going to

37:46

do the work, get the

37:48

order? Closing the complex sale

37:50

at B2B Revenue. We'll see

37:52

you next time.