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episode is marked for sensitive content. Please

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check content warnings and the episode description

0:59

before listening. This week on the Breakup

1:01

Breakdown, this man always needs sex. We've

1:03

just got a week without it, select

1:05

obviously. Gotta plug him in. So we

1:07

have sex. You know, we just finished the deed

1:10

and we are walking down the road to

1:12

this like restaurant and he stops halfway and he

1:14

looks at me and he goes, I don't find

1:16

our marriage fulfilling anymore. And I think it needs

1:18

to end. And I was like, I'm, I'm sorry.

1:20

What? What are you talking about? You found

1:22

it pretty fulfilling about 30 seconds ago. What the

1:24

heck? I don't know what to say. I don't

1:26

know what to do. I had the

1:28

next 40 years of my life planned out

1:30

and now it's gone. Breaking up right

1:32

after you have sex might be about as

1:35

blindsided as you can get. But once

1:37

you hear more details from the story, it

1:39

might make a little more sense. Welcome

1:41

to season seven, episode 15 of the Breakup

1:43

Breakdown. I'm your host and lead relationship

1:45

PI, Abby Murphy. And this week we've got

1:47

a divorce about college sweethearts who just

1:49

couldn't say goodbye to each other even after

1:51

years of turmoil. And this podcast seriously

1:53

wouldn't be possible without amazing submissions just like

1:55

this one. And I take submissions from just about

1:57

everywhere. Whether you've got a breakup story you

1:59

want to tell, your friends got one that you want

2:01

to nominate, you've seen something on TikTok or social

2:04

media that you would love to hear more details.

2:06

or if you want to get a little nosy,

2:08

I don't mind sending a DM to maybe that

2:10

girl who ended her engagement and is kind of

2:12

soft launching it on social media. We don't care

2:14

where the story comes from, we just love hearing

2:16

what happens and also getting some good lessons along

2:18

the way. So you can check out that submission

2:20

form in the episode description. And if you want

2:22

to jump to a certain part of the interview,

2:24

timestamps are located also in the episode description. Hey

2:27

heartbreakers, welcome back to another episode of

2:29

the Breakup Breakdown. This week we've got a

2:31

submission where there's affairs on both sides

2:33

of the aisle from two college sweethearts who

2:36

broke up and made up and got

2:38

engaged and then broke up and then got

2:40

married again and then finally got divorced.

2:42

But before we get into this episode, every

2:44

week we give a shout out to

2:46

a different domestic violence organization just to raise

2:48

more awareness. And this week we are

2:50

shouting out the family place in North Texas.

2:53

The family place has been helping victims

2:55

of family violence in North Texas since 1978.

2:57

They provide everything needed to help victims

2:59

become survivors. So if you want more details

3:01

on their organization, check out the episode. Okay,

3:04

so into this week's submission, so this

3:06

is all about a divorce about these

3:08

two college sweethearts that got together super

3:10

young, like at 19. And the details

3:12

that I have about this relationship is

3:15

that they got together obviously super young,

3:17

and then they got engaged about two

3:19

years into their relationship, and then broke

3:21

off the engagement, but then ended up

3:23

getting back together. Within this relationship, here's

3:25

what I know. The wife had an

3:27

affair with somebody, the husband went to

3:29

jail, they stayed together for five more

3:32

years, and then Eventually, they got a

3:34

divorce. Not totally shocking here,

3:36

but we are interviewing the wife for

3:38

this week's episode. And she said that

3:40

the information she found out about her

3:42

husband after they got a divorce made

3:44

the story of how they got to

3:46

the breakup even more devastating than it

3:48

already was. So how did these two

3:50

college sweethearts go from being blissfully in

3:52

love to totally separated? Let's find out

3:54

when we break down this week's breakup. I'm

4:00

Josie Santy, health coach, wellness

4:02

editor, and host of the Every

4:04

Girl podcast, where we cut

4:06

through the noise with realistic, expert -backed

4:08

advice to help you thrive in

4:10

every category of life while still loving

4:12

the person that you already are. And

4:15

part of loving yourself is being

4:17

really authentic to you, including the clothes

4:19

you wear. In partnership

4:21

with Nordstrom, we're helping you

4:24

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4:26

style is fit for your

4:28

best self. Nordstrom brings you the

4:30

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4:32

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4:34

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4:37

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4:39

-haves, we've curated the styles

4:41

that you'll wear and repeat

4:43

this spring. Free shipping, free

4:45

returns, and in -store pickup make

4:47

it easier than ever. Shop

4:50

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4:52

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the site for details. met

6:20

him standing in line for a cafeteria during like

6:22

my first month at college. I will never forget

6:24

standing there and he started talking to me and

6:26

I texted my best friend and I was like,

6:28

oh my gosh, this cute guy in line is

6:30

talking to me. Like I'm so excited. One of

6:32

the girls in my class was roommates with one

6:35

of the girls in his class. And so we

6:37

kind of ended up hanging out at a lot

6:39

of the same situations and like parties and stuff.

6:41

And it was just, he was really charismatic and

6:43

he just kind of like really drew me in.

6:45

It just, he embraced life with the same like

6:47

vigor. that I did at the time. We just

6:49

became best friends. I was kind of in a

6:51

weird situation at the time with a guy back

6:54

home. So we were just really good friends. We

6:56

ran around and did everything together. He had a

6:58

car, I didn't. So any time I needed to

7:00

go anywhere, he was like, let's go. And just

7:02

always down, he started going dancing with me because

7:04

I'm really big into going dancing, like swing dancing.

7:06

And so he was like, cool, let's learn, let's

7:08

go and we'll go with me every time. It

7:11

was so much fun to hang out and always

7:13

finding a new adventure. And he's really good at

7:15

being the hero. was kind of his really big

7:17

thing is anytime that I needed something he was

7:19

like I got you let me step in let

7:21

me fix it we started a club together at

7:23

one point firstly dancing we were putting on this

7:25

big event and my stage fell through and then

7:27

my venue felt it was a whole thing and

7:30

he was like I got it he's like go

7:32

take a break for like go take a shower

7:34

I will be back and I came out half

7:36

an hour later and he had managed to solve

7:38

all those problems and was like let's go and

7:40

I was like I don't know what I would

7:42

do without you. He, for

7:44

our externships for school, like our internships,

7:46

he went back to my home state, and

7:48

I stayed on the side of the

7:51

country that we were at for school. And

7:53

we started writing letters back and forth

7:55

to each other constantly. Just every three days,

7:57

I'd get a letter from him. I'd

7:59

write him back. And I went

8:01

home for Christmas, and we ended up, that's

8:03

when we had our first kiss. And it

8:05

was one of those big dramatic moments. under

8:08

all the lights for Christmas time and

8:10

he came running over and we're this big

8:12

fountain and we kissed for the first

8:14

time and it was just my epic love

8:16

story you know. We ended up back

8:18

at school so our externship went on for

8:20

like three more months then we both

8:22

ended up back at school and that's when

8:24

we kind of really started dating and

8:26

we just were completely inseparable. Everything was

8:28

just fun. Like I said, we went camping.

8:30

We one day had a day off of school

8:32

and he was like, let's take a road

8:34

trip and we drove six hours up to Niagara

8:37

Falls because we could. Everything was like really

8:39

fun and spontaneous and was really great for about

8:41

six months. So talk to

8:43

me about that. So you're with this guy for

8:45

six months and this is still in college. I'm

8:47

assuming there's some red flags and some negative things

8:49

coming our way at the six month mark. Yeah.

8:51

So that's when we started fighting. So a lot

8:53

of my issues started with I'm from Utah. I

8:55

grew up Mormon and I don't know how. familiar

8:57

you are with that, but... like sex is a

8:59

huge no. I had already like kind of thrown

9:01

that out was like not into it like whatever

9:03

you know it was not a virgin at that

9:06

time. Like we had already had sex. We're having

9:08

it regularly but I was also trying to like

9:10

still go to church and so it was like

9:12

really conflicting for me to like have sex on

9:14

a Saturday night or a Sunday morning and then

9:16

go to church and be like I'm a terrible

9:18

human and so I started kind of like dealing

9:20

with that a lot and being like I don't

9:22

know like maybe we just need to like pause

9:24

and like calm down and that was not okay

9:26

with him at all. He Would

9:28

get livid and up so upset he'd be

9:30

mad that he's like I'm you're making

9:32

me feel guilty that I'm pressuring you into

9:34

this but I'm not trying to pressure

9:36

you you want it to and. Pretty much

9:38

our entire relationship revolves around whether or

9:40

not we were having enough sex and like

9:42

when we were having it and whether

9:44

or not he was happy with it and

9:46

yeah so that was kind of the

9:48

whole basis of like all the red flags

9:51

that started then so I was dealing

9:53

with that he was. You know, kind

9:55

of dealing with his own stuff, trying to get

9:57

through school. He was having a harder time. He

9:59

ended up failing a class. He was kind of

10:01

bounced back a couple of weeks for graduation. We

10:03

stayed together, but he stopped coming and hanging out

10:05

with all of my friends. Something happened between him

10:07

and a friend that who knows what it was.

10:09

He took insult at the slightest thing. You know,

10:11

somebody didn't say hi to him about something and

10:13

he's like, oh, I guess we're not friends anymore.

10:15

I would never talk to them again. I'm shocked

10:17

that he like stayed with me through all the

10:20

things that he did because I just watched so

10:22

many times that somebody would do the slides. slightest

10:24

thing that he would take offense at and he

10:26

would just had no issue cutting him out of

10:28

his life. But I know a lot of that

10:30

comes from his family situation because I was really

10:32

messed up growing up. But yeah, so he stopped

10:34

hanging out with my friends because some perceived slight

10:36

somebody said something or did something that I never

10:38

got a clear story on. I think right before

10:40

graduation, we ended up being like, hey, we got

10:42

a breakup. Like this is not this is not

10:44

working. We're not happy. I don't know what's going

10:47

on. So we like quote unquote broke up and

10:49

then that lasted about, I don't know, three days.

10:51

And then we got back together when we graduated.

10:53

He ended up going back to the place he

10:55

did his externship, so back to Utah. And I

10:57

was like, oh, my boyfriend's going there. My family's

10:59

there. I might as well go there, too. That

11:01

was never the plan. And it's how we ended

11:03

up. So we get back there. We are living

11:05

next door to each other. So not together, but

11:07

next door, which do not recommend. Not a great

11:09

idea. And we're still kind of in this like,

11:11

we're together all the time. We're doing everything together,

11:14

but we are fighting about sex on the regular

11:16

all the time. And we're fighting about like, we're

11:18

not having enough sex. We're not having sex regular,

11:20

like just all the time. That was always a

11:22

thing. And the hard part was I was working

11:24

a five AM shift and he would work a

11:26

two PM shift. So like, you know, I'd be

11:28

up and out of the house before he was

11:30

up in the morning. I'd get home after he'd

11:32

already left. I'd be asleep before he got home.

11:34

So it's like, when are we supposed to like,

11:36

yeah. So that was a lot of red flags,

11:38

but we kept going. We ended up, we got

11:41

into a huge fight, about a year and a

11:43

half into our relationship. And we broke up because

11:45

just all of those things combined, I was like,

11:47

all we do is fight all the time. I

11:49

can't do this. I can't handle it. And he

11:51

was like, you're right. This isn't working. Two weeks

11:53

later, he proposed. Yeah.

11:56

Okay. Whiplash. Yeah.

12:00

relationship with all of Whiplash. He went, we went two

12:02

weeks without speaking to each other and he said he

12:04

went three days before he realized he didn't ever want

12:06

to go through that again. And so he went and

12:08

bought a ring. He got one of our friends to

12:10

trick me into like going on a hike with her

12:12

and he ended up being like sitting on a bench

12:14

on that hike. He proposed, it was the whole thing.

12:16

And I'm gonna be honest, as soon as he asked

12:18

me to marry him, the first thought in my head

12:20

was like, no. And then I was like, of course

12:22

I should say yes. Like why would I not want

12:24

to marry him? I love this man. Like I should,

12:26

I should say yes. So I did and we were

12:28

engaged. for about eight months planning

12:30

a wedding. We got engaged in June. We were

12:33

planning a wedding for like March. So it must

12:35

have been like six months. And I had two

12:37

friends come back to Utah that I was really

12:39

close with a couple of years before I went

12:41

to college. It was a guy and a girl

12:43

and the three of us were just like best

12:45

friends. So we went out for ice cream, you

12:47

know, like my friend, my guy friend hit me

12:49

up. He's like, Hey, I'm in town. Let's get

12:51

together. I was like, absolutely. Let's do it. And

12:53

my ex was like, absolutely not. You can't see

12:55

him. And I was like, I

12:57

don't think you can tell me that I

12:59

can and can't see. So I decided I

13:01

was gonna go see him anyways. So I

13:03

did. I drove down and I had ice

13:05

cream with my girlfriend and my guy friend

13:07

and I had a great time. My girlfriend

13:09

posted a picture of it and my ex

13:11

lost it. I was driving home. was like

13:14

a 30 minute drive home. I got six

13:16

or seven phone calls. I got a whole

13:18

barrage of text messages. I got home, walked

13:20

into my apartment. My wedding dress had been

13:22

pulled out of the closet and thrown across

13:24

the bed. My laptop had been broken

13:26

in half. like bet him half the wrong

13:28

way. He had taken this teddy bear. He

13:30

bought us matching teddy bears when we first

13:33

got together and he had ripped the back

13:35

of mine open and he'd ripped the head

13:37

off of his and just left this like

13:39

carnage strewn across my hallway in my bedroom.

13:41

Should have probably called it there, but being

13:43

in my 20s and making young and dumb

13:45

decisions, I was like, no, it's fine. We're

13:47

going to work it out. We just had

13:50

a fight, like whatever. So I went over

13:52

to his place. We got into

13:54

like, you know, we got into it. We were

13:56

mad. I ended up giving him back the ring.

13:58

and we were like, okay, let's stay together, but

14:00

we probably shouldn't be engaged anymore. Maybe we just

14:02

gotta put the wedding on hold. And that went

14:04

on for two or three weeks where were like,

14:06

yeah, this is not working. You're upset, I'm

14:08

upset, nobody's happy. So we split up again at

14:10

that point for maybe a couple weeks. And then

14:13

we lived next door to each other. We were

14:15

bored and sad. I didn't have a ton of

14:17

friends. He didn't have a ton of friends. So

14:19

we ended up back together for another couple months

14:21

until he had an opportunity and he moved. And

14:23

we started this on again, off again. relationship.

14:25

I went out to visit him at one point.

14:27

He came out to visit me at one point.

14:29

We would like be on talking and texting and

14:31

calling all the time. Whether it would be off

14:33

or we wouldn't we'd go a couple weeks without

14:36

talking and then I can't remember what I did.

14:38

I talked to somebody. I hung out with someone

14:40

I shouldn't have. I don't remember but he

14:42

lost it. We got in a huge fight and

14:44

we went about four or five months without talking.

14:46

So we broke up that time in like December

14:48

and then in April I got a ring in

14:50

the mail. No message, no letter, no Nothing with

14:52

it, just a ring. So I was like, well,

14:54

obviously it's from him. I found him on Facebook,

14:57

or unblocked him from Facebook. I sent him

14:59

a message being like, what's up, yo? Like, why'd

15:01

you send me a ring? And he was like,

15:03

if I move back, would you marry me still?

15:05

And I was like, absolutely, I would. Because again,

15:07

young and dumb and in my 20s, and I

15:09

thought this was my epic love story. You know,

15:11

this is that moment in all the rom -coms

15:13

and all the books where the big thing happened

15:15

that broke you guys up and you think you

15:17

can't make it work, but then out of nowhere,

15:20

you're both like, I need, like this can happen.

15:22

I can do it. And so I was

15:24

like, yes, absolutely. Let's do it. And so we

15:26

started talking and calling every day and like figuring

15:28

out like, okay, he's going to move here and

15:30

we're going to do this. It's going to be

15:32

great. And then I got a message on Facebook

15:34

from a girl that I did not know. And

15:36

she was like, Hey, I don't know if you

15:38

knew this, but I live with him. He's

15:40

my boyfriend. I was like,

15:43

I'm sorry, what? You're

15:45

kidding. So then I of

15:47

course deep dive that on Facebook and

15:49

I'm because he doesn't have anything on

15:51

his Facebook There's no evidence of relationship.

15:53

So I'm obviously like hop on hers.

15:55

Yeah, they had gotten scuba dive certified

15:58

like the week before they were like

16:00

outgoing to dinner with their other friends

16:02

and I was like What the heck?

16:04

So I call him. I'm like, dude,

16:06

what's going on? And he's like, oh,

16:08

yeah I do sort of have a

16:10

girlfriend that I live with, and I was

16:12

like, I'm sorry, we probably should have... I don't

16:14

know, share that information? That feels slightly

16:16

important. Being the dumb girl that I was

16:19

at the time, instead of being like, uh,

16:21

hey, all these red flags, you know, like

16:23

we always argue, we can't be together without

16:25

like being mad at each other about everything.

16:27

You know, you didn't want me to see

16:29

these friends. You like, you broke

16:31

my laptop and like massacred my teddy bears.

16:33

And now you're proposing to me while living

16:35

with another woman. I was like, oh, she's

16:37

obviously the problem. Got into like a huge

16:39

Facebook messenger fight with her. And then I

16:41

ended up telling him, I was like, figure

16:43

out your living situation and then talk to me

16:45

again. So we went, I think, like two

16:47

weeks and then he called me and he's

16:49

like, all right, like I'm moving out this

16:52

weekend. He's like, I'm not sleeping in her

16:54

bed anymore or anything like that. And I

16:56

was like, OK, cool. Sounds great. Let's go. So

16:58

he moved back across the country

17:00

and he got to Utah in

17:02

July and we got married in

17:04

September. Oh, my God. And obviously,

17:06

I had not dealt with all

17:08

of my feelings about everything that

17:10

had happened. We had one night

17:12

where we took a bottle of

17:15

tequila and to the woods and

17:17

went camping and we just took

17:19

shots and told each other quote unquote everything that

17:21

we had done while we had been separated. So,

17:23

you know, it was kind of like everything's on

17:25

the table. You're not going to find out any

17:28

secrets. His role was kind of like

17:30

anything that gets brought up tonight. Like we were

17:32

working through it and it doesn't like it's off

17:34

the table for arguments in the future. Like we're

17:36

not talking about it again. It's over and done

17:38

with. That's when I found out that he had

17:40

cheated on me the first year of our relationship.

17:42

Yeah. He had decided in like the first three

17:44

months while we were on our externships because he

17:46

ended up back at school about like a month

17:48

before I did, just the way like our school

17:50

worked. And he had decided that he wasn't sure

17:52

if I was really it or not. And so

17:54

he just wanted to like check the waters. So

17:56

he kind of slept his way around a little

17:58

bit before I got back to school. And he's

18:00

like, yeah, no, actually, this works. This is great.

18:02

And then there was like one or two other

18:04

times as well, that first year that he just

18:06

stepped out, you know, he's like, well, we were

18:08

kind of broken up. And I was like, but

18:10

we weren't really broken up. Yeah. But that had

18:12

been, you know, like four years before I was

18:14

like, OK, you know, whatever, I can deal with

18:16

that. It's fine. He told me about this girlfriend

18:18

that he had been living with when he asked

18:20

me to marry him. And I was like, hey,

18:22

cool. Sounds good. You know, three quarters of a

18:24

bottle of tequila. And I was like, hey. And

18:26

then the next couple months, I was like, so

18:28

maybe we talk about this girl you were living

18:30

with. And he was like, nope, that's off the

18:32

table. We don't talk about that. Like, you know,

18:34

we covered it that night. You're not allowed to

18:36

bring it up again. And I was like, okay,

18:38

but like I need, I have questions. I've got

18:40

a lot of feelings. And maybe we talk about

18:42

it. He just refused. Flat out would not talk

18:44

about it, would not discuss it. He's like, it's

18:46

off the table. It's not important. It doesn't matter.

18:48

We get married. We respect to fighting all the

18:50

time. Again, we're not having enough sex. He thought

18:52

that, you know, once I got married that I

18:54

would be having so much more sex. with him.

18:56

I don't know what that means because it was

18:58

already like an every other day situation because I

19:00

know if it didn't happen that he would be

19:02

upset and heaven forbid that he didn't finish because

19:04

that was even worse than us just not having

19:06

it. It was just a nightmare all the time.

19:08

So we were always finding out. And

19:10

I ask a quick question. I guess that we're already

19:12

there because if you're doing it every other day,

19:14

like what's his expectation? Like does he want it once

19:17

a day, twice a day? Like what what expectation

19:19

were you not meeting here? So many good questions. I

19:21

have no idea. At some point in our marriage,

19:23

I like had it on our calendar, like every three

19:25

days without fail, we had sex. Like, and that

19:27

was, you know, like four or five years in our

19:29

marriage, I like, I put a little star on

19:31

our calendar and it was like, it has to happen

19:33

today, like without fail. And I asked him at

19:35

one time, I was like, well, how, because he was

19:37

like, we never have sex. And I was like,

19:39

how often do you think we have? Like, when is

19:41

the last time you think we had sex? And

19:43

he was like, well, it's been at least a week.

19:45

And I was like, it was two days ago.

19:47

Like, let me pull it up on the calendar. I

19:49

started, I'm going to tell you when it happened.

19:51

So I don't don't know if it was that he

19:53

wanted it every single day. I don't know if

19:55

it was that it was like an all the time

19:57

thing. I have no clue what his expectation was.

19:59

I was trying as hard as I could, you know,

20:01

but there's a limit to when you're working opposite

20:03

schedules and life. Sometimes you got to pay

20:05

bills instead of getting naked. I don't know. So

20:08

at that point we were fighting. I'll never forget. I walked

20:10

into work one day and my coworkers were like, what's new?

20:12

And I was like, oh, my husband and I aren't speaking

20:15

again. And they're like, no, he asked what was new. That's

20:17

old news. My

20:19

life is good. But I

20:21

had a co -worker at work who he had

20:23

kind of made it known to me that

20:25

if I was interested, he

20:28

was interested. Marriage doesn't matter.

20:30

It's fine. He was down to clown

20:32

whenever. So just three months after

20:34

we got married, we're fighting all the

20:36

time. We were upset. And so

20:38

I started an affair. which

20:40

was not the best decision at the

20:43

time, obviously. A lot of regrets

20:45

there. I've dealt with a lot of that, like

20:47

guilt and feelings. And that was something that I

20:49

got held over me for many years. Did he

20:51

find out or did you confess to him? And

20:53

how did he take it when you told him?

20:55

Or when he found out? So that went on

20:57

for a couple of months and he... had suspicions. I'm

21:00

terrible at hiding things. You know, I think

21:02

I'm being sneaky. I'm not sneaky at all.

21:05

I forget that my phone, he had to code to

21:07

my phone and can go through my text messages

21:09

at any time. And he did all the time in

21:11

the middle of the night. So I think there

21:13

was a long time he was starting to kind of

21:15

suspect. And he, in the middle of

21:17

the night, he woke me up at like, and

21:19

I worked at four in the morning at this

21:21

time. And so he wakes me up at, you

21:23

know, 1 a .m. and he is holding my

21:25

phone in front of me and he's yelling at

21:27

me like, who did you buy this for? It

21:29

was one of those card writing experiences that I

21:31

had bought for my ex -husband for his birthday. I

21:33

didn't realize at the time that it was like

21:35

this weekend only, I thought it was like, oh,

21:37

we can use it whenever. And so

21:39

I guess the weekend had happened like the weekend before

21:41

and he saw that email and he was so live.

21:43

And he was sure that I'd gone with this other

21:45

guy. He was sure that I was like messing around

21:47

with this guy. And that was the first time that

21:49

he like actually like laid hands on me and we

21:51

like got into a fight. He ended up like grabbing

21:53

my hair, like pulling me out of bed, throwing me

21:55

across the room. but like a

21:57

black eye that day, pretty crazy. Yeah, so he

21:59

figured it out. He was like, something's weird

22:02

going on. At some point, I think he saw

22:04

text messages or something, but the night that

22:06

he got it confirmed was the night we moved

22:08

into our new house. So when we got

22:10

married, I had owned a condo. He hated that

22:12

condo because he didn't know who else I

22:14

had had sex with in it. Yup, that was

22:16

why I ended up selling it. Also, the

22:18

couch I had our whole relationship hated that, because

22:20

he's like, I don't know how many other

22:22

men you've had sex with on this couch. We

22:24

moved into our new house. We went over there that

22:26

first night. We had it. And I was

22:28

upstairs taping off the master bedroom so we

22:30

could paint it. He was downstairs replacing the

22:32

doorknob. And he came upstairs right as this

22:34

guy that I was cheating with texted me.

22:36

And he was like, who's texting you? And

22:38

I obviously look up and I'm panicked. And

22:40

so he comes in and he takes off

22:42

the little stick that you turn on blinds

22:44

to open and close them. He pulls that

22:46

off the window and he just like very

22:48

calmly walks over to me and is like,

22:50

who are you texting? And I was like,

22:52

nobody, it's not important. And then he whipped

22:54

me with that, which I was just like

22:56

in shock. And then he took my phone,

22:58

which ensued like he like looked at my

23:01

phone and then he twisted it in his

23:03

hands to like try to break it in

23:05

half. And then I was fighting to try

23:07

to get it back. And that just ensued

23:09

on this whole altercation where at one point,

23:11

you know, it's all very blurry and hindsight,

23:13

but at one point like I was on

23:15

the floor, he'd like rip. my bra off

23:17

and he was like kicking me in the

23:19

stomach and it was just like wild. At

23:21

one point he bit me, which that was

23:23

always like my favorite part afterwards. I was

23:25

like, dude, he bit me. Like, what is

23:27

happening? So we got into a huge altercation

23:29

that night. You know, and I mean, at

23:31

the time, like he, he finally was like,

23:33

I'm leaving, I'm done. He opened up his

23:35

car door and it hit my car. And

23:37

then he proceeded to do that like three

23:39

more times. And that's when I lost it

23:41

and called the police. You know, he's sitting

23:43

there beating me up and I'm like, Oh

23:45

no. But as soon he touched my car,

23:47

I was like, Like, no, you're not doing

23:49

that. They come and get in, they put

23:51

him in jail for the night, and I'm

23:53

sitting there with a copy. Like, obviously that's

23:55

it. Like, we're done, we have to be

23:57

done. Like, I can't, there's no way. Immediately,

23:59

a temporary protective order goes into place, so

24:01

he can't talk to me for like two

24:03

weeks. He ends up having to go to

24:05

court, and he has a friend get in

24:07

contact with me, and I go and meet

24:09

up with this friend for like a drink.

24:11

Obviously, my ex is there too. We start

24:13

talking and being the young and dumb 20

24:15

-somethings that I am at the time. I

24:18

was like, you know what? You're right. We should

24:20

make this work. Let's go to counseling. So

24:22

we get this really good counselor, actually.

24:24

He was awesome. We started talking

24:26

to him. My ex moves back into the house

24:29

with me, and we start seeing this counselor

24:31

on the regular, and we start talking about the

24:33

ways that we fight. It's very unhealthy. We

24:35

end up in these cycles all the time, and

24:37

that's how we're constantly breaking up, getting back

24:39

together, breaking up, getting back together. So we start

24:41

figuring out healthier ways to fight, which really

24:43

feels like it just means that I start ignoring

24:45

all of my feelings. and all of the

24:47

things like my needs in life, we end up

24:49

staying together because that seems like the smart

24:52

thing to do. And about a year

24:54

later, we move across the country together. And I

24:56

feel like my mom has never forgiven him for

24:58

that, because she always feels like it was an

25:00

isolating technique, you know, tactic that like, if he

25:02

can get me away from my family, then like,

25:04

now he becomes my only support system, which you

25:06

know, on hindsight, I'm like, oh, yeah, no, that

25:08

makes a lot of sense. So

25:10

we moved to North Carolina and immediately

25:12

like, it's just Well, I moved

25:14

to North Carolina because we still had

25:16

the house, so he was staying

25:18

there until we sold it. And

25:21

again, I'm living on the other side of the country.

25:23

for four months before he moved out and

25:25

sex is obviously an issue because we're not

25:27

having it anymore and that just starts huge

25:29

fights between us again is that you know

25:31

why am i not having more like phone

25:34

sex with him let's have a video sex

25:36

chat and that's just not that's not my

25:38

thing i'm not comfortable with it i don't

25:40

like sending pictures i just i'm not sure

25:42

what who's gonna do what with them you

25:44

know i've had bad experiences in the past

25:46

about that and so i just am like

25:48

not comfortable with it and i'm trying for

25:50

him but it's just It's not going well.

25:52

So finally he ends up calling and he's

25:54

like either find an apartment or find it

25:56

a worse attorney because like I can't keep

25:58

living in the sexless world that I'm in.

26:00

So we end up getting an apartment. He

26:02

moves out and we continue to just fight

26:04

like cats and dogs and just everything is

26:06

terrible and awful. And we go through those

26:08

cycles where it's like, it's good. It's fine.

26:10

You know, like we're kind of just roommates

26:12

and having sex a lot. And then we

26:15

go and do our own separate things and

26:17

he stopped going everywhere. So one of the

26:19

things I love so much about him when

26:21

I first started dating him was how we

26:23

would go and do everything together. He was

26:25

so excited to go to Walmart and we

26:27

just found an item that started with every

26:29

letter of the alphabet and took pictures with

26:31

it. Just made it a scavenger hunt or

26:33

we like would buy one of those little

26:35

mini portable grills and grill hot dogs and

26:37

marshmallows and it was just so much fun

26:39

and we'd go to this festival or go

26:41

take a quick camping trip because we had

26:43

a day off together and that just all

26:45

stopped. He wouldn't go anywhere with me. He

26:47

didn't want to like talk to anybody. You

26:50

know, he just was uninvited. was

26:52

kind of just very much a homebody. And

26:54

every fight, every fight we had, it got brought

26:56

up that I had cheated on him. Every

26:58

fight was that like, I had screwed up this

27:00

relationship. I had messed up this marriage. I

27:02

was responsible for the fact that he had a

27:04

domestic violence record. Never once did he ever

27:06

take any accountability for that. It was always like,

27:08

well, if you hadn't have cheated on me,

27:10

then that wouldn't have happened. And I'm like, there

27:12

are other ways to deal with finding out

27:14

your wife is cheating than beating her up. I

27:16

don't know. You could have a conversation. You

27:18

could just leave. also an option divorce

27:20

on the table totally right right but

27:22

no every fight was always you know like

27:24

it got brought up I got raked

27:27

over the coals constantly at one point he

27:29

decided he wanted to be an air

27:31

traffic controller he couldn't do that because he

27:33

has a domestic violence record at one

27:35

point he decided he wanted to like you

27:37

know when he every time he switched

27:39

jobs he had to explain his misdemeanor records

27:41

it was such a nightmare that and

27:43

I would cycle between Quiet quitting

27:45

our relationship and just being like I'm done like

27:47

I'm just gonna live my life and we're just

27:49

gonna you know be married and I'll have sex

27:51

with you. But like, I'm living my own life.

27:53

I'm going to do what I want to do. However,

27:56

I wanted to do it. One of the biggest

27:58

things that was kind of like a nail in

28:00

the coffin for me, I started fostering dogs and

28:02

we brought in this foster dog that I just fell

28:04

in love with. I was like, what if we

28:06

kept him? And my ex was like, no, we're

28:08

not keeping him, not doing it. And I was like,

28:10

but what if we did anyways? And

28:12

he was just like, hard. No, not happening. And

28:14

so we ended up adopting him out to a

28:16

couple about 18 hours later, this dog ran away

28:18

and the couple called me and we're out with

28:20

my parents at the time and they called me

28:22

and told me that he was missing and I

28:24

was like oh my gosh I will be there

28:26

as soon as I can to help you look

28:28

for this dog you know I hang up the

28:30

phone I explain to my parents my ex what

28:33

was happening and my my mom's like of course

28:35

like let's go let's go find this dog and

28:37

my ex was like shoulda euthanized him when we

28:39

had the chance. And my mom just about decked

28:41

him. She was livid. And I just at that

28:43

moment, like my jaw hit the ground where I

28:45

was like, did you seriously just say that to

28:47

me? And that started eight weeks of chasing this

28:49

dog. And so I spent a lot of time

28:51

like driving up to where he was and like

28:53

sleeping in my car when we had the traps

28:55

active and all that did not sit well with

28:57

my ex that another man was taking precedence over

28:59

him despite the fact that that man is a

29:01

20 pound dog. So that was one of the

29:03

things that when we finally managed to catch this

29:05

dog. And I was like, I'm keeping him. He's

29:07

mine. That ensued a huge fight as well that

29:09

I never respect his feelings. And I don't care

29:11

about how he what he does or you know,

29:14

I was just like are you kidding me like

29:16

did you see what this dog what we went

29:18

through for this I went through for this dog

29:20

and so that was a huge point in contention

29:22

we just it was always like that tension in

29:24

the room was was my dog then a couple

29:26

months later he started hanging out at this bar

29:28

made really good friends with the bartenders and was

29:30

like you should meet these girls I think that

29:32

you would be best friends with them and I

29:34

was like okay cool why not so I started

29:36

going to the bar as well and meeting these

29:38

people and they were all kind of weird to

29:40

me at first and I was like I don't

29:42

really know what's going on like I guess maybe

29:44

I'm just not good at meeting people. I have

29:46

a really hard time like making friends and keeping

29:48

them, which I now realize was a him issue

29:50

and not a me issue. But I was having,

29:52

you know, so I was like, okay, things are

29:54

kind of like strange, but whatever. I started making

29:57

really good friends with like the one and he

29:59

starts hanging out with them more. And at one

30:01

point, one of them asks me, she's like, you

30:03

don't have an open marriage, do you? And I

30:05

was like, that's a weird question. Um,

30:07

no, no, we do not. And she was like,

30:09

okay, I didn't think so. And I was like, okay,

30:11

weird. Didn't think like too much of it at

30:13

the time. I was just like, you know, whatever, they're

30:15

pretty open group of people, you know, and so

30:17

I was like, that's maybe they're just checking me. They

30:19

wanted to swing. I don't know what the issue

30:21

is, whatever. So kind of kept going. I

30:23

found out a couple weeks later from another

30:26

friend that I was like, Oh, that girl

30:28

and my husband were out at dinner together.

30:30

They went to dinner on a movie. And

30:32

I was like, he never told me that

30:34

because I work late on Fridays and Saturdays.

30:36

So I'm not home like until 10 o

30:38

'clock at night. So I guess they went

30:40

out to dinner and hung out. I

30:42

don't know what more happened there, but I was

30:44

like, that feels weird for you to be like

30:47

running around town with somebody else and not telling

30:49

me about it. So I've got weird feelings there. It

30:51

just all feels often weird. And then I went

30:53

on a trip with my mom, which we always

30:55

do every year. And I was gone for a week

30:57

and things... felt a little weird, but I mean,

30:59

our relationship was always weird. Like I said, we

31:01

were always quiet quitting each other and then like

31:03

trying hard and then quitting and trying hard. And so

31:05

I felt a little off, but I was like

31:07

calling him, we were chatting. Then as I was

31:09

driving home that weekend that Saturday, he transferred all of

31:11

our money out of one of our bank accounts,

31:13

which that was a huge red flag to me

31:16

because he had done the same thing after when

31:18

he had gotten out of jail years before. As soon

31:20

as he got out of jail, he drained our

31:22

bank account and then he refused to give any

31:24

of the money back. at that time until we ended

31:26

up like reconciling and yeah so when I saw

31:28

him like drain that bank account I was like

31:30

what is what is happening and I immediately pull

31:32

over I call him I'm like hey what's going on

31:34

and he's like oh well that's all the business

31:36

account money from this walking tour that we had

31:38

started together and he's like I'm just moving it

31:40

into a business account and I was like okay feels

31:42

a little weird he wouldn't talk to me about

31:44

it but that's that's fine that's yeah like and

31:46

I mean I'm always just fine this is why I

31:49

stayed married to this man for six and a

31:51

half years is because I was always justifying everything

31:53

in my head of like yeah no that's cool

31:55

that's cool I found out about my friends, like that

31:57

was kind of a weird situation. He had decided

31:59

to change careers and he was going to Florida

32:01

for a month long's training. The day before he left,

32:03

the night before, I was at work and I

32:05

had a coworker text me, one of my employees,

32:07

like I'm her manager. She texted me, I was

32:09

like, Hey, I have to talk to you about something.

32:11

Can you come over after work? And I was

32:13

like, no, it's, you know, it's my, my man's

32:15

last night at home. I want to go like spend

32:18

as much time as possible with him. And she

32:20

was like, no, you need to come over. I

32:22

need to talk to you about this. And I

32:24

was like, no, no, like, well, I'll see you tomorrow.

32:26

Like we can talk tomorrow. He

32:28

ended up coming into work to

32:30

show me his my ex's

32:32

Tinder profile. Yeah, and I was

32:34

like, that's not okay. What

32:37

is happening here? So I'm scrolling through his Tinder

32:39

profile. He's got pictures of like when we went

32:41

whitewater rafting, when we went hiking, he just caught

32:43

me out of it. And I'm like, this feels

32:45

not great. Don't love that. Especially don't love it

32:47

that one of my employees that I'm her manager

32:49

is like showing me this. Like that's embarrassing. Cause

32:52

now it's like going to get around work and

32:54

yeah. So I get home that night and I'm

32:56

like, Hey. So here you have a Tinder profile

32:58

and he was like, oh, no, no, no, no.

33:00

Again, like I haven't looked at it in months.

33:02

Like I started that months ago when we had

33:04

that huge fight and we'd maybe like talked about

33:06

divorce. And I was like, okay, well, which fight?

33:08

Which time that we talked about divorce? And he's

33:10

like, no, no, see, you can look at it.

33:12

But I had never done any of the dating

33:14

apps because we'd gotten married before that was really

33:16

a thing. So I didn't know how they worked.

33:18

I didn't know how to check to see if

33:21

he was on it, if there were messages, whatever.

33:23

So he's like, I'm just going to delete it.

33:25

It'll be fine. And I was like, okay, cool.

33:27

Go to Florida for a month. Bye. love you.

33:30

Really great decisions again. I found out my

33:32

friend. He had gone out with my friend.

33:34

He went to Florida for that month. He's

33:36

back home. So I get back from my

33:38

trip and I know that this man always

33:40

needs sex. We've just gone a week without

33:42

it. So like, obviously. Gotta plug

33:44

him in. So we have sex. Like I get back,

33:47

I'm high, you know, kind of unpack a little bit.

33:49

We have sex. He's like, hey, like want to go

33:51

grab lunch? And I was like, oh, yes, they do.

33:53

You never ask me to like go do something with

33:55

you. It's like, yeah, let's go out for lunch. Awesome.

33:57

This is like half an hour after, you know, we

33:59

just finished the deed and we are walking down the

34:01

road to this like restaurant a half a mile from

34:03

our house and he stops halfway and he looks at

34:05

me and he goes, I don't find our marriage fulfilling

34:07

anymore. And I think it needs to end. And I

34:09

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35:34

One more time for those in back. You don't

35:36

find our marriage fulfilling anymore? Have you found

35:38

it fulfilling at all in the last, I don't

35:40

know, four years? What are you talking about?

35:42

You found it pretty fulfilling about 30 seconds ago.

35:44

What the heck, my guy? Right? Oh, my

35:46

gosh. Yeah. What a nightmare. Funny story on that.

35:48

I asked my current man one day. We

35:51

like, you know, had sex earlier that day or

35:53

whatever. And I was like, hey, like I'm

35:55

just in my feels. Do you still like we're

35:57

still good, right? And he's like, I don't

35:59

think I'd have sex with you if we weren't

36:01

good. And I was like, see, you think. But

36:05

you think that would be

36:07

you think that's a prerequisite, but

36:09

sometimes it's not. Sometimes my

36:11

experience shows otherwise. So yeah.

36:13

So he told me that he didn't find our marriage

36:15

fulfilling anymore and that he wanted to divorce. And I

36:17

was like. immediately I'm like panicking in my head, right?

36:19

I'm like, how are we going to afford our house?

36:21

Like, am I going to move? Is he going to

36:24

move? Do I stay here? Do I move back to

36:26

Utah to be close to my parents? Like, I don't

36:28

know what to do. I'm immediately panicking and I just

36:30

don't know, like, what's happening? Where this is going? What

36:32

are we doing? And this started a

36:34

month of emotional whiplash. I don't know what to

36:36

say. I don't know what to do. I'm trying to

36:38

figure out what am I going to do with

36:40

the next, you know, I had the next 40 years

36:42

of my life planned out and now it's gone.

36:44

And I'm trying to decide like, do I want to

36:46

fight to have him back or do I let

36:49

him go this time? You know, every time like we've

36:51

gotten back together, this is our epic thing. We've

36:53

always joked that like, even if we got divorced, we'd

36:55

end up back together. We always ended up back

36:57

together. You know, we're 10 years into this relationship and

36:59

we've broken up 17 ,000 times. So the next day,

37:01

you know, he's like, hey, we need to like

37:03

split up our finances. And I was like, okay, cool.

37:05

Yeah, let's do that. And then the day after

37:07

that, he's like, hey, let's like snuggle on the couch

37:09

and watch a movie. And then two days later,

37:11

he's like, let's have sex. And I'm like, okay I

37:13

don't know what's happening yes let's do that whatever

37:16

you want like I haven't decided what I'm doing yet

37:18

but I'm not talking to anybody about this at

37:20

this point I think like one girl at work knew

37:22

and that was it and again like I had

37:24

the friends at the bar that we hung out with

37:26

but they kind of always felt more like his

37:28

friends than mine and so I like wasn't talking to

37:30

any of them and this goes on for a

37:32

month of like hey like who's moving out you or

37:34

me Also, can we have sex? And

37:36

I just am like, yes, no, yes, no, staying

37:38

going. I don't know what's happening anymore. So finally

37:40

we get to about a month after he told

37:43

me he wanted a divorce and he was like,

37:45

all right, we have to decide. And this is

37:47

when he informed me that he had an apartment.

37:49

He had already booked an apartment. He had planned

37:51

on moving in while I was gone on my

37:53

trip with my mom and he was just gonna

37:55

ghost me. I was going to come home and

37:57

find him and all of his stuff moved out,

37:59

but that didn't end up working out because the

38:01

apartment complex that he was renting through, they weren't

38:03

ready yet. I guess it had some inspection fall

38:05

through or something. So yeah. So then he'd had

38:07

to end up actually telling me to my face

38:10

that he wanted a divorce. So I find out

38:12

that he has an apartment and he's like, either

38:14

you can take it or I can take it.

38:16

What do you want to do? One of us

38:18

has to go. And I was like, okay, well,

38:20

I guess I'll go. And then I thought about

38:22

it for about 24 hours. And I was like,

38:24

no, I'm keeping the dogs. I'm staying in the

38:26

house. He starts making moves to move out every

38:28

day. come home from work and it would just

38:30

be an exhausting four to six hour conversation about

38:32

where do we stand? How do we feel? What's

38:34

going on? What is our future look like? Do

38:37

we want to like, what is the separation agreement

38:39

going to be? He's like, you know, we're having

38:41

long discussions every single night. And one day he

38:43

texts me when I get to work and he's

38:45

like, Hey, you can't go to the bar anymore.

38:47

Those are my friends. I put in the time

38:49

and the money. You can't like, it's mine. It's

38:51

my spot. And I was like, but

38:53

there I thought, okay, yep, you're right. Nope, you're

38:55

right. At this point, I was just so beaten down

38:57

that I was exhausted. I'd been through years of

39:00

this relationship of being told how worthless I was and

39:02

that I was awful because I cheated on him

39:04

and how dare I do that and never being forgiven

39:06

for this thing that I thought we had tried

39:08

to work through. And it happened at the beginning of

39:10

our marriage. We stayed together for five and a

39:12

half years after that. And I felt like I spent

39:14

those five and a half years trying every day

39:16

to prove to him that I was a different person.

39:18

And he spent those five and a half years

39:20

trying to prove to me that I was still the

39:22

same person, which was exhausting. He

39:24

tells me that I can't see these friends

39:26

anymore. I can't go to this bar. And

39:28

then the next day, he's like, I think

39:30

we should try again. Let's start from the

39:32

top. Let's start our relationship over. Let's really

39:34

make a move for it. And I was

39:36

like, no. I was like,

39:39

I need you to leave. I need you to move

39:41

out. I need you to leave me alone. And

39:43

I need to like... all the sand settle. I was

39:45

like, I feel like every day you're like, you

39:47

can't be friends with these people. Let's stay together. You

39:49

can't do this. Let's do this. Like I just,

39:51

I couldn't keep up with it. I was exhausted. I

39:53

was tired and I was like, you have to

39:55

move. You have to go. And he did. He ended

39:57

up moving into his place. I went to the

39:59

bar that day that he was moving into his new

40:01

place and I like saw all our friends and

40:03

I was like, Hey guys, like, I guess I'm saying

40:05

goodbye. I don't get you. You know, he gets

40:07

you in the divorce and they were like, no, no,

40:09

no, no, he doesn't get to make that decision.

40:11

And I was like, well, I mean, that's what he

40:13

said. And they're like, no, no, no. If you're

40:15

here and he shows up, just come sit next to

40:18

us, you're our friend too, no. Which I will

40:20

forever be grateful for because I felt so alone. Our

40:22

whole relationship, we just, like I said, I hadn't

40:24

been able to keep friends. I hadn't been able to

40:26

make friends. I always felt very isolated. I'd have

40:28

somebody over and we'd have a really great time and

40:30

I could never get them to come back over. And

40:33

as soon as he left, all of these friends

40:35

climbed out of the woodwork. They were like, oh my

40:37

gosh, hey girl. missed you we actually really hated

40:39

him and we didn't want to come over because we

40:41

didn't like him at all. I had one girl

40:43

who called me and I had met her through my

40:45

ex -husband was friends with her now ex -husband and

40:48

she is like my big sister and we had hung

40:50

out I had gone and hung out with like

40:52

me and my husband had gone and hung out with

40:54

her and her husband had a really great time

40:56

I thought I kept hitting her up and being like

40:58

let's grab coffee let's go on a hike and

41:00

she kept dodging me and she tells me later that

41:02

it was because every time my husband would go

41:04

over and hang out he would talk to them about

41:07

how terrible I was how I would just like

41:09

nag all the time and how I didn't care about

41:11

him and how he was just waiting to get

41:13

in a good financial spot so he could leave me.

41:15

And this is months before he ever told me

41:17

he wanted a divorce. And so she's like, I just

41:19

felt really weird about seeing you after hearing that.

41:21

I was like, girl, thank you so much. I'm so

41:23

glad we're friends now. So he moves out. Finally,

41:25

he talks to my sister and she's like, girl, you

41:28

gotta leave her alone. Let her have some time

41:30

to settle and think about it. So he was like,

41:32

okay, I'm gonna go a month. We won't talk

41:34

for a month and then I'll come back. And I

41:36

was like, sounds good. He comes over after that

41:38

month and things are going okay at first. You know,

41:40

he sits down at the kitchen table and he's

41:42

like, hey, like let's, you know, talk about like my,

41:44

you know, are we going to get back together

41:47

or not? He's like, my therapist says that you don't

41:49

want to get back together. And I was like,

41:51

your therapist is correct. I don't, I don't want to

41:53

get back together. And that's when the train went

41:55

off the rails and he started to get really upset

41:57

about like, I tried so hard. I think we

41:59

could be so good together. I'm not sure what's happening.

42:01

Like why you wouldn't want to get back together

42:03

with me. And I was like, well, seeds and it's

42:06

out. 10 years. prior and he then proceeded to

42:08

be like okay well can we still have sex and

42:10

I was like what what is it what is

42:12

this question I don't understand what do you mean no

42:14

we cannot we cannot have sex anymore this this

42:16

train is closed and that's when the train caught on

42:18

fire and he just like lost it he like

42:20

stands up he flips over the table he starts screaming

42:22

at me like what was I even doing like

42:24

what was that what was our whole relationship even for

42:27

and then he's like I'm taking the dryer and

42:29

he's like tries like pull it out of the wall

42:31

like drag it out our garage I'm like can

42:33

you please just leave what is going on here? I

42:35

don't know, like, what to do or say or

42:37

anything. He finally, like, burns himself up. I'm just standing,

42:39

you know, like, on the other side of the

42:41

kitchen because I learned long before that after the night

42:43

I sent him to jail, he never laid hands

42:46

on me again. But I was always scared. And if

42:48

he would get really mad, he would rush at

42:50

me. Then I would, you know, like panic and freak

42:52

out. So I would always try to have something

42:54

between us when we would fight, like whether it's a

42:56

kitchen counter, a table, like a couch, whatever. I'm

42:58

standing on this other side of the kitchen so that

43:00

I, you know, have somewhere to get out if

43:02

I need to. And he's like, finally he burns himself

43:05

out. He's like, I can't get the washer out.

43:07

I can't get the dryer out. And he's like, I'm

43:09

coming back for these later. He leaves. A couple

43:11

of weeks later, I go on a trip with a

43:13

friend. We get home as soon as I walk

43:15

into my house. I'm like, he's been here. There was

43:17

a shelf on the wall that was gone. There

43:19

were some things missing out of our closet, out of

43:21

the garage. And I was like, he has been

43:23

in my house and that's not okay. Immediately like go

43:26

over. I think I went to his house the

43:28

next day. And I was like, I need the house

43:30

keys back. You don't live there anymore. You can't

43:32

do that. I've already asked you not to come up.

43:34

over to the house if I'm not there. Especially,

43:36

I mean, my dogs are still there. Like, I don't

43:38

know what he's gonna do to them. I don't

43:40

know what's gonna happen. So... He

43:42

refuses to give me the keys back. He's like,

43:45

no, my name's still on the mortgage. Like I'm

43:47

not giving the keys back. And I was like,

43:49

okay, fine. I'm not going to like fight you

43:51

here at this apartment complex. Like I'm, I'm all

43:53

go. And that day I bought new doorknobs and

43:55

installed them. And then I lived in fear for

43:57

the next month or two that I didn't know

43:59

when he was going to try to come back

44:01

over. I didn't know when he, if he was

44:03

going to knock open a window, like kick in

44:06

a door. I had no clue. I was terrified.

44:08

I ended up talking to my lawyer and she

44:10

explained that because we had separated and I had

44:12

kept the house and he had voluntarily moved out

44:14

and I had told him not to come on

44:16

property unless he'd spoke to me first. If he

44:18

did come on property that I could file for

44:20

domestic trespassing and because he had a domestic violence

44:22

record against me that would immediately put him in

44:24

jail which was a huge comfort to me to

44:27

know like if for whatever reason like anything would

44:29

happen I could call 911 and they would immediately

44:31

like cart his butt off to jail. He luckily

44:33

did not end up coming back over but this

44:35

is when I found out that that friend that

44:37

he had gone out to dinner with they had

44:39

been before

44:41

he and I had separated. She

44:43

came to me one night just in tears

44:45

and just so upset and she's like, I'm

44:47

so sorry, I betrayed you. She's like, I'm

44:49

just really susceptible to like his charming. He

44:51

was very charismatic and it just, it was

44:53

a whole thing. I was like, look girl,

44:55

like I get it. I understand like I

44:57

stayed with this man for 10 plus years

44:59

because, you know, I just, he's addictive to

45:01

as a personality and it's just fireworks and

45:04

passion. It feels like all the time. And

45:06

then our divorce just ended up being such

45:08

a nightmare. Like I said, and you have

45:10

to go. in a day and we ended

45:12

up almost two and a half or two

45:14

years after he left before we actually got

45:16

divorced. He refused to agree to anything in

45:18

the separation agreement. We ended up in mediation.

45:20

We started out in the same room and my lawyer

45:22

after about 10 minutes was like, we need to

45:24

separate. There's a lot of animosity in here. And I

45:26

was like, yeah, yeah, there is. And I mean,

45:28

he just always thought he was the smartest person in

45:31

the room. He was always sure he had every

45:33

answer. And so we did this

45:35

mediation and we were in there for like four

45:37

hours. It was insane. And mind you, had a

45:39

house and three vehicles. It's not like we had

45:41

kids. It's not like we had all these crazy

45:43

assets to split up We didn't have like a

45:45

ton of money. It was just the house and

45:47

three vehicles and he fought me on everything He

45:50

wanted the washer. He wanted the dryer. He wanted

45:52

part of the down payment money back. He wanted the

45:55

trivia business that I run. It

45:57

was just, it was such a nightmare. And we

46:00

finally settled on mediation on an agreement. So she's like,

46:02

I've dealt with like some really crazy cases. She

46:04

did like a lot of social work and stuff. And

46:06

she's like, I've just never seen anybody like refuse

46:08

to sign an agreement they already agreed to. Like it's

46:10

just never taken this long. I feel very comforted.

46:12

One of the first times I met her when I

46:14

was talking to her about like the whole, you

46:16

know, I was explaining everything to him and she just

46:18

stops and she looks at me and she goes,

46:20

what is his addiction? And I was like, what

46:22

are you talking about? And she's like, most psychopathic

46:24

personalities tend to have an addiction, whether

46:26

it's alcohol or drugs or something else. She's

46:28

like, this sounds like he fits this

46:30

personality type. So like, what is his addiction?

46:33

And I was like, he doesn't have

46:35

an addiction. What? And the more I talked

46:37

to her, she's like, oh, it's sex.

46:39

And I was like, cool. Yeah,

46:41

that makes a lot of sense. So

46:44

yeah, so finally he agreed

46:46

to the paperwork and everything. And

46:48

my lawyer called me and was like, if you can be

46:50

in court tomorrow, I can get you divorced. And I was

46:52

like, done, I will be there no matter what. And thank

46:54

goodness that has been like the last that I've had to deal

46:56

with him. Wow. Yeah. So it's

46:58

just 10 years of toxic relationship from

47:00

hell. Oh my God. Well,

47:02

I'm like, if he must have been really

47:04

good at sex, I mean, if he was

47:07

addicted to it and he's roping women in.

47:09

No, I think he was just really good.

47:11

I mean, he has a lot of narcissistic

47:13

person. He's very good

47:15

at making me feel like I was

47:17

worth nothing, you know? If I

47:19

wasn't giving him sex and then he wasn't happy

47:21

and then I wasn't like doing my part. I

47:23

wasn't making happy. I was a terrible human and

47:25

just put me through that cycle of like, okay,

47:27

well, I guess like we should do that. Like,

47:29

let's have sex. So you're happy. And I think

47:31

a lot of the reasons I stayed for so

47:33

long because I thought about divorce so many times,

47:35

but it's like, I can't, like I can't leave.

47:37

Then I'm failing my marriage. I'm failing myself. And

47:39

like, I screwed up and have this affair and

47:41

he made the decision to stay with me. So

47:43

like, I can't be the one to leave. Thank

47:45

goodness he gave me an out because as soon

47:47

as because he did, I took it. But

47:49

even before you guys were married, you

47:51

still had this on and off relationship.

47:53

So what was it about him that

47:55

kept bringing you back? Like why choose

47:58

to stay with a guy who clearly

48:00

was making you feel worthless at some

48:02

points? I think a lot

48:04

of it was, I mean, I was on this

48:06

other side of the country by myself and

48:08

I didn't drink. I didn't smoke. And so I

48:10

wasn't going out to the bar with everybody.

48:12

I wasn't hanging out in the smoking gazebos with

48:14

everybody. So I kind of felt really isolated. I

48:17

didn't have a lot of friends. was

48:19

having trouble making more friends. And

48:21

it just felt like he was like, oh,

48:23

I'm here, I've got you. I will be here

48:25

for whatever you need. Well, it's just being

48:28

my hero anytime I needed something. I needed to

48:30

get groceries. I needed a stage for my

48:32

event. It was one of those things that I

48:34

knew that he would come back or he

48:36

would be there for me. Yeah. And I'd also,

48:38

I feel like it always felt like that

48:40

epic love story, where it's like, this is that

48:42

moment where you had a thing that broke

48:44

you guys up or that you thought you weren't

48:46

gonna make it. And then you did. and

48:49

it suddenly like you lived happily ever after and

48:51

so I just kept hoping like this next

48:53

one was gonna be our happily ever after and

48:55

it just never was. I think

48:57

that's so relatable especially for women like even

48:59

if the reality sucks sometimes we can get so

49:01

caught up in the idea of something or

49:03

like the story of it all that it's like

49:05

oh of course like this is just how

49:08

my life is playing out and you almost maladaptive

49:10

daydream into your own relationship. Yeah, absolutely. And

49:12

it just, you know, I mean, you start to,

49:14

you do the rose colored glasses when you

49:16

break up, that it's now you think back, I'm

49:18

like, oh, how are you straight? Like those

49:20

little jokes on the grocery list and how you

49:22

guys used to like snuggle and watch the

49:25

show together and how he used to like always

49:27

say hi to your dog first. And like

49:29

these, you know, little things, you're like, oh, yeah,

49:31

like he was so sweet. He was so

49:33

great. And you start forgetting about the fact that,

49:35

you know, he made you feel like trash

49:37

all the time and that he never supported anything

49:39

that you did. And Yeah,

49:41

that it just you guys were always

49:44

in a constant fight and a battle and

49:46

nothing, nothing was ever, you never felt.

49:48

happy when you're together. I'm sure knowing what

49:50

you know now and having the having

49:52

the hindsight of this relationship and also knowing

49:54

that you turn out okay in the

49:56

end that you would tell younger you to

49:58

get out. What would you tell a

50:00

younger version of you and at what point

50:02

in your relationship would you have said

50:04

these things to you to get out of

50:06

the relationship? Oh, cool. See, that's such

50:08

a hard question because if I hadn't have

50:10

been with him and we hadn't moved

50:12

like we moved where we did because we

50:14

wanted to be closer to his family

50:17

and I'm my friends because he started hanging

50:19

out with them and through them I

50:21

met the man that I'm with now and

50:23

he's absolutely incredible and so I wouldn't

50:25

have traded all of that bad. to have

50:27

not met the man that I'm with

50:29

now. Can I hear about your new relationship?

50:31

I think it takes a lot of

50:33

bravery to get into a new relationship after

50:35

having such a longstanding history with someone

50:37

that you had a lot of problems with.

50:39

I met him through my ex -husband. You

50:42

know, I guess that he, my ex started hanging out

50:44

at this bar all the time. And so we just

50:46

made friends with all the regulars. And I started hosting

50:48

trivia with him. And this guy showed up at our

50:50

first trivia night. And I was like, oh, you two

50:52

seem to know each other. And he's like, oh, yeah,

50:54

this is, this is, you know, this guy. And I

50:56

was like, neat. And so we just kind of were

50:59

like friends for a while. all of our friends when

51:01

we split up all of our friends stayed with me

51:03

all of them told me after they're like we always

51:05

got weird vibes from your ex like we didn't like

51:07

him at all it was weird and i was like

51:09

okay cool but this guy and i my man now

51:11

like we just we always had like a flirty kind

51:13

of thing and even when i was dating we always

51:15

joke that he was on every first date i went

51:17

on because i took them to that bar because i

51:19

was safe i knew everybody there and so this guy

51:22

was always on every first date and Yeah,

51:24

it was always like, oh, it's just that guy.

51:26

It's just that guy. It's not a big deal. And

51:29

then one night, he was just drunk enough, and

51:31

he kissed me, and I was like, oh, shoot, do

51:33

I like him? I was like, oh,

51:35

dang. I, uh, we

51:37

finally made a decision. All of our friends were like,

51:39

you guys will be so perfect together. And you were always

51:41

like, no, no, we're just friends. And finally we started

51:43

dating and we kind of tried to keep it a secret,

51:45

always joking. Like it's the worst kept secret in town

51:47

because everybody knew we were dating. But, and it was crazy

51:49

because two months in, he looked at me one night

51:51

and he goes, I'm going to marry you. And I was

51:53

like, okay, which was so different because in my ex

51:55

asked me to marry him both times, you know, I was

51:58

like, I should say no. But like, why would I

52:00

say no? Of course I want to marry him. I should

52:02

say yes. But when this guy said it, I was

52:04

just like, yep, no problem. Got it. Let's do it. I'm

52:06

down for this if you are. which yeah and

52:08

he's just so great because like anytime my emotional

52:10

baggage like falls open he's just like no worries

52:12

like I'll help you like pack it back up

52:15

like we can like put out whatever you want

52:17

and talk about it and it I think it

52:19

helps a lot that he knows my ex and

52:21

so he helped me deal with like the whole

52:23

divorce situation he was here to like you know

52:25

deal with me when I was like crying and

52:27

upset because was like I don't know what to

52:29

do about this mediation and like am I gonna

52:31

be able to keep the house am I not

52:33

like I don't know what to do and he's

52:35

just he's not like quiet, strong,

52:37

just like, I've got your back, whatever, like

52:39

we'll face it, it'll be fine. And I love

52:41

it because everyone in town just adores him

52:43

and he knows everybody. I was joking, I can't

52:46

take him anywhere, which is so opposite from

52:48

my ex who never went anywhere and didn't know

52:50

anybody and I couldn't get people to come

52:52

over twice, you know? So it's just, it's like

52:54

night and day different that it's just been

52:56

so freeing to be with somebody who's just like,

52:58

I love you no matter what. And like,

53:00

he knows my whole past, he's aware of it.

53:02

Like we kind of have like a shaky

53:04

little start. Cause I was kind of dating somebody

53:06

that first night that he kissed me and

53:08

he's like, you know, it's a little red flag

53:10

for me. Like you're still kind of got

53:12

that like cheating streak in you. And I was

53:15

like, my thing is like, I need to

53:17

feel valued and desired. And like you asked me

53:19

what I would tell my younger self. And

53:21

that is my biggest thing is like, you need

53:23

to feel valued and desired. If you don't,

53:25

you need to address it. And if they don't

53:27

fix it, you need to leave. Like you

53:29

need to know your worth and do what you

53:31

can get out. It's all leaving is always

53:33

an option. And I don't know why for me

53:35

it took so long to like, and for

53:37

him, to be the one to leave before I

53:39

got out of that. Because leaving is always

53:41

an option. It's not a failure. It's not an

53:44

embarrassment. It's not a shameful thing. Like get

53:46

out and find someone who does value and desire

53:48

you. What has been the hardest thing for

53:50

you to work through having left that relationship? Finding

53:52

all the little triggers. And also

53:54

just like, you know, I mean, my man now

53:56

will say something or do something and I'm just

53:58

like, but do you still like me? is it

54:00

okay? Are we good? Knowing that

54:02

I'm not the mistakes that I've made,

54:04

I think is one of the biggest.

54:07

Lessons that I've had to really teach myself is

54:09

like I messed up, you know I I

54:11

made the decision to cheat and that was that

54:13

was my my mistake That was nobody forced

54:15

me into it. Nobody, you know I was in

54:17

a crappy situation with my marriage But that

54:19

doesn't mean that I needed to make that decision

54:21

I could have addressed it differently You know

54:23

same way he could have addressed finding out about

54:25

cheating I spent so many years being told

54:27

that I was that mistake that I that was

54:29

my fault I ruined his life I made

54:31

these decisions and that it had screwed everything up

54:33

for him and that was all my fault

54:35

and so So I still internalize so many things

54:37

and I hold myself to the standard that...

54:39

feels so unreachable all the time. If you could

54:41

give any advice or words of wisdom to

54:43

people that feel like they can see themselves in

54:45

your story, or maybe they're listening to this

54:47

in five years down the line, they're going to

54:49

be like, oh, I feel like I'm in

54:52

that same situation as that girl on that podcast

54:54

at one time. What would you tell them

54:56

to help them make the right decision for them,

54:58

whether that's leaving or just trying to get

55:00

the right help for them? Staying is the easy

55:02

thing to do. I think a lot of

55:04

people put a lot of glory in like, oh,

55:06

you know, like our marriage was on a

55:08

rocky place, our relationship was bad, but we stayed

55:10

and we made it work. and you know

55:12

like leaving is like oh leaving so easy like

55:14

oh just start over but staying is hard

55:16

and we worked on it and that's that's not

55:18

the case staying is the easy thing to

55:20

do like I said I had

55:22

my next 40 years figured out it was going to

55:24

be the same pattern that we were already in.

55:26

I knew that we could afford the house. We could

55:28

afford to take trips. We could afford cars. And

55:31

leaving was scary because I don't know

55:33

whether I could afford the house. I suddenly

55:35

don't know what I can afford. I

55:37

don't know where I'm going to live. Am

55:39

I going to live here? Am I

55:41

going to move back home? Am I going

55:43

to move somewhere completely different? Now my

55:45

life is wide open and it's scary. But

55:47

doing that, it made such a difference

55:49

that it wasn't glorious to stay in that

55:51

relationship. It was the feeling

55:53

of being able to breathe after he

55:55

was out of my house for 24

55:57

hours was I can't even describe how

56:00

amazing it was to come home and

56:02

not feel like I was walking on

56:04

eggshells or checking when the last time

56:06

we had sex was or you know

56:08

not sure if I was going to

56:10

do it for my like, you know,

56:12

spend that day doing what I wanted

56:14

to do or trying to be the

56:16

perfect wife for him or whatever. I

56:18

could come home and I could just

56:20

breathe and nobody was going to shove

56:22

my mistakes down my throat. Nobody was

56:24

going to hold anything against me. Nobody

56:26

was going to be mad at me

56:28

for dumb reasons. So that

56:30

would be my advice is is staying is

56:32

the easy thing to do. Leaving is

56:34

the hard thing. And sometimes you have to

56:36

do the hard thing. but the world

56:38

is your oyster and it's gonna open up

56:40

and become a pearl for you. Tune

56:42

in on Thursday for another Breakdown Bonus episode.

56:44

I am talking to a mental health

56:46

expert about sex addiction. We're gonna cover everything

56:48

from how does somebody even form a

56:50

sex addiction to what does it look like

56:52

in somebody's relationship? Should you stay with

56:54

somebody if they have a sex addiction? Or

56:56

should you stick around and help your

56:58

partner through it? We'll be covering all of

57:00

that and more, so I'll see you

57:02

whenever you decide to tune in next. I'm

57:09

Josie Santy, health coach, wellness

57:11

editor, and host of the Every

57:14

Girl podcast, where we cut

57:16

through the noise with realistic, expert -backed

57:18

advice to help you thrive in

57:20

every category of life while still loving

57:22

the person that you already are. And

57:25

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