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Today,

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you are listening to

0:19

the Catalyst by Softchoice, a

0:22

podcast about unleashing the full

0:22

potential in people and technology.

0:26

I'm your host, Heather Haskin. Business leaders have to balance the

0:33

needs of many different stakeholders,

0:36

including employees, business partners,

0:36

and most importantly, their customers.

0:41

But how do you ensure you meet the

0:41

disparate needs of all these groups

0:45

while growing the bottom line? There is no answer to this question,

0:47

but over the last few years, a

0:51

set of principles has been helping

0:51

businesses achieve this exact goal.

0:55

Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, or

0:55

D, E, and I. D, E, and I initiatives

1:00

are essential in the workplace. They foster innovation, improve

1:01

decision making, and create an

1:05

environment that helps everyone thrive.

1:08

All while driving better

1:08

business outcomes as well.

1:11

And when DE& I principles trickle

1:11

down into the tech we build and

1:15

use, that's when they really

1:15

start to have an outsized impact.

1:19

Rachel Scaff, Amazon Web Services Managing

1:19

Director of America's Channel and Partner

1:24

Sales, is focused on doing just that.

1:27

She believes growing DE& I increases

1:27

employee and customer satisfaction.

1:33

strengthens partner relationships,

1:33

grows the bottom line, and improves

1:37

the technology that we use every day.

1:40

Rachel, welcome to The Catalyst.

1:42

Thank you so much. I am thrilled to be here.

1:45

And I'll tell you, diversity, equity,

1:45

inclusion, and accessibility are

1:52

part of The Catalyst for our future.

1:55

I am so excited to be able

1:55

to discuss this with you today.

1:58

I've done quite a bit of just personal

1:58

research on you as a fan of yours,

2:02

and I've seen that you're involved in

2:02

a lot of amazing DE& I type projects

2:06

and have a great passion in that area

2:06

besides just what you do at Amazon.

2:09

So really excited to

2:09

hear your perspective.

2:12

The first thing I'd like to ask

2:12

leaders is what would you define your

2:16

purpose statement is as a leader? What drives you?

2:19

Ooh, that is a great question.

2:23

Quite simply. My purpose statement is

2:25

three simple things, Heather.

2:29

It's do better, make

2:29

better, and be better.

2:34

And that includes the communities that

2:34

we live in, the individuals that we

2:39

impact, the companies that we're part

2:39

of, and the customers that we influence.

2:45

It's pretty simple. Do better, be better, make better.

2:49

Simplicity is more profound

2:49

to me because you could think about

2:51

those words in different ways. Be and do are very different.

2:55

So do better, make better, and be better.

2:58

I love it. Thank you for sharing that. Before we get more into some of the work

3:00

that you've been doing at AWS, I'd love

3:04

to hear a little bit more about your

3:04

background and how you got into tech.

3:08

Oh, I, uh, I think we

3:08

all have unique origin stories.

3:13

I didn't start out in tech. In fact, I started out in

3:15

heavy highway construction.

3:20

Legitimately, my first job in college

3:20

was hard hat, steel toed boots, out in

3:27

the field designing bridges and roads.

3:32

But when I went to college, I

3:32

was always focused on how do I go

3:37

build something that has longevity?

3:40

How do I do better, make better? and be better.

3:43

And for me, it became about efficiency.

3:47

Geez, I must've been a

3:47

sophomore in college.

3:50

And one of the roles that I had

3:50

was I had to measure the viscosity

3:56

of asphalt coming off of trucks.

3:59

So for those of you who aren't

3:59

into materials engineering, um,

4:03

asphalt coming off a truck is

4:03

about 300 degrees Fahrenheit.

4:07

I don't know what that is

4:07

in Celsius, but it's hot.

4:10

And in the dead of summer. It's really uncomfortable, so you

4:12

have to make sure that the viscosity

4:17

coming off the trucks is right,

4:17

the temperature is right, because

4:20

otherwise it causes bumps in the road. In the early 90s, we didn't have cell

4:22

phones and we didn't have a whole

4:27

variety of things, so you had to

4:27

do all of this calculation outside.

4:32

And I thought, geez, there's got

4:32

to be a better way to do this.

4:36

Again, be better, do better, make better.

4:39

So I wrote a, a little computer

4:39

program that would let me sit in the

4:45

air conditioning of my truck and do

4:45

some of those calculations for me.

4:49

I'd go out, get the measurements, and then

4:49

I'd come back and just make it efficient.

4:53

And then I started handing it out

4:53

on the really big floppies, not the

4:58

small ones, but the big floppies.

5:01

And eventually I ended up getting

5:01

into tech versus doing actual

5:08

build work out in the fields. And. Then I started implementing technology.

5:12

I worked for consulting firms. I was an executive at the largest

5:14

specialty retailer in the world.

5:20

And then I decided to take another

5:20

career turn, and I went to work for

5:25

a semiconductor company designing

5:25

IoT devices and Eventually, I moved

5:32

into tech sales and here we are.

5:35

So that's, that's my origin

5:37

story. So with this passion that you have

5:38

for DE& I in the workplace and

5:42

with your unique origin story,

5:42

why is that important to you?

5:46

Was there some catalyst or event

5:46

or has it just always been there?

5:50

I think

5:50

it's always been there, Heather.

5:54

And I think part of it is

5:54

my background of growing up.

5:57

I grew up in. rural America on a cattle ranch.

6:02

Growing up, there was no delineation

6:02

between who you were, what you were

6:08

born into, what race you were, what

6:08

gender you were, any of those things.

6:13

Work just had to be done. And whether it was mucking out stalls in

6:15

the barn or working in my dad's grocery

6:22

store or going to engineering school,

6:22

it all just became do the job and make

6:28

sure that the people that are around

6:28

you, you set a good example for and

6:34

you help them become something better.

6:37

My dad was a first generation American.

6:41

His parents migrated over from Lebanon.

6:44

My grandpa was put on a boat

6:44

when he was nine years old,

6:49

Heather, out of Beirut, Lebanon.

6:52

Without his parents, it was he and his

6:52

brother, a nine year old and 11 year old

6:55

with an address to get to in America.

6:59

A lot of that grit and a lot

6:59

of that ambition to figure it

7:03

out is frankly part of my DNA.

7:10

So let's look at Amazon

7:10

a little bit, DE& I and Amazon.

7:13

So you came to Amazon a few years ago.

7:15

What was it about Amazon that felt

7:15

like it was a good fit for you?

7:19

And at the time, what were they doing

7:19

around DE& I that was attractive to you?

7:24

I have been at

7:24

Amazon for four years.

7:29

That seems like a lifetime ago, and

7:29

the amazing thing about AWS is we live

7:38

in this time of huge potential, cloud

7:38

technology, artificial intelligence,

7:45

machine learning, generative AI, all

7:45

of these have provided us with this

7:50

unlimited horizon of opportunity,

7:50

and how we can use these technologies

7:57

to create solutions and solutions. And frankly, making sure that everyone

7:59

is included in that is a darn good

8:05

start for what we need to go do.

8:08

It's a vital role that every

8:08

single leader plays in helping

8:15

grow all types of employees.

8:18

And when you work at a company

8:18

like Amazon, where there's 1.

8:22

5 million employees, There's a tremendous

8:22

opportunity for us to build and scale

8:31

all of those technology efforts and

8:31

do better, make better, and be better.

8:38

And the reason that this is so

8:38

important, Heather, a company the size

8:43

of Amazon has the scale and impact.

8:48

Frankly, it also has significant

8:48

responsibility and influence

8:53

across the world because

8:53

there's such a huge opportunity.

8:57

To make it better. So when I think about Amazon and what

8:59

makes it super unique is our 16 leadership

9:05

principles and how they truly guide

9:05

Amazon and how we approach our business

9:11

decisions and shape our day to day.

9:14

So for example. One of the things that we hinge

9:16

on and one of our key leadership

9:21

principles is all around success and

9:21

scale bring broad responsibility.

9:26

And what I mean by that leadership

9:26

principle is It is our job to think

9:34

about how we are impacting and

9:34

delivering value for all of our

9:42

customers, not just for our individuals.

9:48

It's not just about bias for action or

9:48

delivering results, but working at Amazon.

9:57

And their focus on diversity,

9:57

inclusion, and equity is about the

10:04

impact that we have on the world

10:04

and the communities that we live in.

10:11

Frankly, that's part of what attracted

10:11

me to Amazon in the first place.

10:16

And it's also what

10:16

continues to attract me.

10:21

Amazon is such an inspiring company to me. And I love some of the origin

10:23

story of Jeff Bezos and Day One.

10:27

And I love some of those

10:27

aspects of the startup feel.

10:30

And then you bring it to this

10:30

vast scale of so many employees.

10:33

And how do you Build changes

10:33

with such a large group.

10:37

It's amazing to me to think about

10:37

bringing that down to just one person,

10:42

creating an impact and making change.

10:44

So when you look at what you're doing DE

10:44

and I wise at AWS, how are you building

10:50

that strategy with the AWS business?

10:53

I think for me, in order to

10:53

truly scale, whether it's through our

10:59

partners or it's through our employees

10:59

or it's through our customers, I

11:06

always think about four key elements. And the first one is, how do

11:08

you drive high quality, high

11:13

velocity decision making? by your teams when you

11:16

are not in the room.

11:20

That's a key thing for any company.

11:23

That means empowering and teaching

11:23

those around you how to do that.

11:29

So that's number one. Number two.

11:33

Everything that you do, you have

11:33

to build an engine or at Amazon,

11:38

we call them mechanisms and those

11:38

mechanisms are built to allow you to

11:44

scale and allow you to run faster.

11:47

It allows you to audit and inspect

11:47

your business and helps your team

11:51

ensure that they are looking at

11:51

the right things at scale, right?

11:56

Because when you're running large

11:56

organizations or large initiatives.

11:59

You can focus on everything, which

11:59

in turn, you focus on nothing.

12:05

The third key thing around scale, whether

12:05

it's diversity, inclusion, equity, and

12:11

accessibility, or it's a large scale

12:11

partner event or sales event, is you

12:17

have to be able to communicate a bold

12:17

vision and key messages at scale.

12:26

And lastly, you've got to build

12:26

an organization of owners.

12:31

And for me, that means owner multipliers.

12:35

And I'll give you a couple of examples.

12:38

So I think it was two years ago ish, I

12:38

had this idea of how do we put together

12:48

some type of women in the cloud?

12:52

And by women in the cloud, I thought

12:52

it was super important that a

12:56

company of our size do something

12:56

more around how we share those.

13:05

Stories and it ended up so we incubated

13:05

it at in North America at reinvent in

13:12

2022 and the whole purpose of women of

13:12

the cloud was to provide an opportunity

13:19

to empower and uplift women in tech,

13:19

particularly in the cloud across our

13:26

customers and our partner community,

13:26

and it served as a platform for women

13:33

to connect to share their experiences.

13:35

and to learn from one another.

13:38

And over the last two years, I've seen

13:38

this particular mechanism scale so much,

13:49

Heather, that I just sit back and I'm

13:49

so proud of I now see women of the cloud

13:56

going out and talking to university

13:56

students about inspiring the next

14:02

generation of female leaders in tech.

14:05

That's exactly what scale

14:05

looks like here at Amazon.

14:11

You have an idea, you create it.

14:14

You build a mechanism, you inspire

14:14

others to take it further than you ever

14:19

thought you could, and then you step

14:19

out and let them run with it, right?

14:25

Again, can't always be in the room,

14:25

so how do you build those owners?

14:30

If you go look up on LinkedIn, AWS

14:30

Women of the Cloud, I couldn't be

14:34

more proud of what that team has done.

14:37

That's just one example.

14:39

I am absolutely glad that

14:39

you shared that example because I

14:42

was going to ask you about it anyway. I myself have enjoyed some of

14:43

those events, particularly this

14:47

year at reInvent and a couple of

14:47

other events previous to that.

14:51

And I so appreciate. As a woman in the cloud, having

14:53

the opportunity to meet those that

14:57

I would not normally get to meet

14:57

and connect with and find common

15:02

ground with and inspire each other.

15:04

I love how you talked about, you just did it small. You just made it simple.

15:07

You just started it. Like, let's just do it.

15:09

Here's the thing about that. I think the tricky part for a

15:11

lot of leaders is how do you

15:17

take an idea and activate it?

15:20

and then let it grow. I equate it a little bit to, for

15:23

those of you who have children, right?

15:29

How do you raise something and then

15:29

slowly let it go and become its own thing?

15:39

Here's the vision and here's the message.

15:42

You start it, you provide guardrails for

15:42

others to come in and make it better.

15:49

And then you stand on

15:49

the sidelines and cheer.

15:53

That's your job as you further

15:53

your career is you've got to build

15:58

that next generation of leaders

15:58

and you can't always hold on to.

16:05

Everything that you've

16:05

given birth to, right?

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16:49

What I really wanna get

16:49

into with De and I is, I know as you

16:52

manage these partnerships and you're

16:52

a part of the the partner world with

16:55

AWS, we've also gotta talk about ai.

16:59

It's an incredible part

16:59

of technology today.

17:01

So as we think about like, how does

17:01

DE& I and AI kind of mesh, the thought

17:06

of like, okay, you've got all these

17:06

different stakeholders when it comes to

17:09

AI, you've got people designing products

17:09

and designing solutions, you've got women

17:13

in the cloud events, you've got all of

17:13

these different parts of both Amazon,

17:18

the customer and the partner that come

17:18

into play, and you've got this new tool.

17:23

And so how does DE& I, that perspective

17:23

of creating a strong, an engaging

17:29

partnership while also increasing DE& I

17:29

and then bringing in a solution like AI.

17:35

How does that all mesh together? Can that increasing DE& I eventually

17:37

Increase the bottom line when

17:41

it comes to these AI solutions.

17:44

I absolutely believe it does.

17:48

So think about it this way.

17:50

We are living in a world of change.

17:54

And if generative AI were a movie,

17:54

Heather, I'd argue that we are

17:59

in the absolute opening credits.

18:04

Think about that. We're clearly living in this period of

18:05

incredible change, which is Anything

18:12

but business as usual, disruption

18:12

is on the rise, and reinvention is

18:17

becoming the default strategy for

18:17

success, whether it's your personal

18:23

success or your company's success.

18:27

And here's some interesting statistics

18:27

that, that just blew my mind when

18:31

I looked at earlier this week. It might actually be really tempting for

18:33

us to think that the pace of change with

18:38

generative AI is eventually going to slow.

18:41

You know? But that isn't the case. In fact, I think this is the least amount

18:43

of change that any of us will ever see.

18:48

Here's the statistics. Eighty five percent of the jobs

18:50

that will exist in 2030 have

18:56

not even been invented yet.

18:59

That's in five years.

19:02

That's not that long. So when we think about

19:04

diversity, inclusion, and equity.

19:10

It's everywhere, it's all around us and

19:10

we've got to figure out how do we continue

19:16

to leverage generative AI to drive

19:16

businesses, to transform what we're doing.

19:24

In fact, Andy Jassy, the CEO

19:24

of Amazon, recently said.

19:28

Generative AI may be the largest

19:28

technology transformation since the

19:35

cloud, which itself is still in the early

19:35

stages, and perhaps since the internet.

19:40

Think about that. So when you think about what that means

19:41

to all of us, it's important to understand

19:50

that none of these technologies will be.

19:55

able to be part of us without thinking

19:55

about diversity, inclusion, and equity.

20:03

We realize that incorporating

20:03

diversity, equity, inclusion, And

20:08

accessibility principles into all of

20:08

the AI technologies that we build are

20:14

absolutely essential to creating solutions

20:14

that are fair, that are unbiased,

20:19

and that are accessible to everyone.

20:23

In fact, our approach involves several

20:23

key strategies to ensure that DE& I is

20:30

at the forefront of our AI development.

20:33

So I want to talk to you about

20:33

one specific area, and it's

20:35

our focus on inclusive design.

20:38

Data sets. So everybody understands that

20:40

A. I. Systems are only as good

20:44

as the data they're trained on. So at Amazon, we are committed to

20:46

ensuring that our data sets reflect

20:52

diverse perspectives and backgrounds.

20:55

And this includes actively seeking out

20:55

underrepresented groups in our data

21:00

collection process to minimize our bias

21:00

and ensure that our AI technologies can

21:06

serve a wide range of users effectively.

21:10

So let me give you a couple

21:10

examples just to make it real.

21:14

So when we develop services like Amazon

21:14

Recognition, which provides image and

21:19

video analysis, we worked to ensure

21:19

that the facial recognition technology

21:24

is trained on diverse data sets.

21:28

This helps in reducing bias in

21:28

facial recognition outcomes, which is

21:33

Absolutely crucial for applications

21:33

in security and identification.

21:39

Another example is we integrate

21:39

fairness And bias detection tools

21:45

directly into our machine learning

21:45

platforms such as Amazon SageMaker.

21:51

These tools allow developers to evaluate

21:51

their models for potential biases

21:56

and make the necessary adjustments.

21:59

And these are just a couple

21:59

examples of the proactive approach.

22:04

That Amazon is using to help organizations

22:04

build AI applications that are not only

22:10

powerful, but also ethical and focused

22:10

on diversity, inclusion, and equity.

22:24

Well, that kind of goes back to what you were talking about earlier of being aware of the

22:26

greater impact that you can create.

22:30

And we're doing that by being

22:30

inclusive, by creating equity.

22:35

by creating diversity. But let's bring it down to the more

22:36

personal level for you and your role.

22:39

Do you see that trickle down effect

22:39

of DE& I impacting partnerships and

22:45

the solutions that they offer with AI.

22:48

So I'll share with you two

22:48

examples that I think really are

22:52

helping our partners such as SoftChoice.

22:54

So when we sit down with SoftChoice and

22:54

we talk about how do we help our customers

23:00

or how do we go build a platform that will

23:00

Solve some different business problem when

23:09

we sit down and we talk with our partners

23:09

or we talk with the engineers at soft

23:13

choice, all of the AI systems that we're

23:13

talking about are developed and infused

23:20

with diverse data sets that reflect

23:20

a wide range of cultures, languages,

23:25

experiences, and they become more

23:25

representative of the global user base.

23:31

You think about soft choice and all

23:31

the different customers and all of

23:36

the global reach that you all have.

23:39

Leveraging this technology is

23:39

leading us to more accurate and

23:44

relevant outcomes for our users.

23:47

And then the second thing when we

23:47

think about how we're leveraging

23:51

our partners for scale is really

23:51

around innovation and creativity.

23:58

How do you take the perspectives as

23:58

others to really foster innovation?

24:04

And I think that diverse teams working

24:04

on AI development help bring that variety

24:12

of viewpoints and ideas to the table.

24:14

And lastly, social good, right?

24:19

When we think about AI that is

24:19

infused and built on the foundation

24:26

of diversity, inclusion, equity,

24:26

and accessibility principles.

24:32

It is driving social change by

24:32

addressing systematic inequalities.

24:38

For example, the AI tools

24:38

that we've developed together.

24:42

are used in education to provide

24:42

personalized learning experiences to

24:48

cater to different learning styles

24:48

that help bridge gaps and support

24:52

some of the underserved communities

24:52

that both of us are part of.

24:56

So I'm super thankful for the

24:56

work that we get to do with

25:01

SoftChoice on a regular basis around

25:01

making the world a better place.

25:08

I like to think about it

25:08

like we're in the dial up era of AI.

25:11

Like it's just brand new,

25:11

there's so much on the horizon.

25:14

So as we look at incorporating DE& I

25:14

being a necessity to making sure that our

25:18

solutions are impacting everyone in an

25:18

equal way and creating the best outcomes,

25:23

is there anything you're excited about? What do you see the future being like?

25:26

I think for me, when

25:26

we think about the future, I

25:31

equate it to a tipping point.

25:33

That's exactly where we're

25:33

at with generative AI.

25:38

We're on the precipice of a new

25:38

tipping point, and that tipping

25:42

point Is the start of the next wave

25:42

of our customers, cloud adoption,

25:47

digital transformation, reinvention.

25:50

It's the tipping point

25:50

for our education systems.

25:54

It's a tipping point for us personally,

25:54

for the worlds that we live in.

25:59

And frankly, all of our partners

25:59

around the globe are critical

26:05

to help everything thrive.

26:08

Let me talk a little bit about why I

26:08

believe we're at this tipping point.

26:12

So if you think about industrial

26:12

revolutions, for example, in the 1760s,

26:20

coal and steam really changed how the

26:20

world started to industrialize themselves.

26:29

About a hundred years later,

26:29

we had electrification.

26:33

And then a hundred years later, We saw

26:33

compute and communications and these

26:39

last 300 years of revolution caused huge

26:39

disruption, but it also represented huge

26:48

opportunity for companies and individuals

26:48

who are ready to take that advantage.

26:54

And with each of these technological

26:54

innovations comes decades of

27:00

invention and new ideas that

27:00

would have never been possible.

27:04

And they're the things that AWS pioneers.

27:08

It's that change. And generative AI is really that tipping

27:10

point of yet another tectonic change.

27:18

And an industrial shakeup.

27:20

So I think for us, we've got to start

27:20

really thinking about the fact that

27:27

generative AI is going to fundamentally

27:27

transform how we build products, how

27:34

we build businesses, how we develop

27:34

upcoming talent, how our kids.

27:40

Go to school, how our kids learn, all

27:40

of these inventions and breakthroughs

27:46

are going to transform our lives

27:46

and the world around us only in the

27:52

opening credits of what's possible.

27:54

Rachel, just before we kind of

27:54

wrap things up here, I'd love to hear

27:58

from you, any parting words, anything

27:58

you'd like to add to this discussion

28:02

that we weren't able to cover today.

28:04

I think if I have a set of

28:04

requests from you, it's simply this.

28:09

Go all in, all the time. Talk about the hard things,

28:11

even if they're personal.

28:15

Commit to big goals. Believe that you have the

28:17

power to make any change.

28:22

I truly believe that what can

28:22

happen when we all come together

28:27

and support each other and have

28:27

authentic conversations is going to

28:32

be what changes the world, Heather. Companies don't, people do.

28:36

So let's go create something

28:36

epic together and frankly

28:42

change the world while we do it.

28:44

I love that. Thank you so much, Rachel. Thank you for being here.

28:47

I appreciate it so much. Thank you.

28:51

DE& I initiatives. benefit all corporate stakeholders.

28:54

Employees thrive in inclusive cultures.

28:57

Customers receive services designed

28:57

for their diverse needs, and business

29:01

partners drive better innovation

29:01

in more collaborative environments.

29:05

In technology, DE& I ensures solutions

29:05

are fair, accessible, and free from bias.

29:11

And with the proliferation of

29:11

AI tools in recent years, that's

29:14

become more important than ever. A big thank you to Rachel Scaff.

29:18

For coming on the show and thank

29:18

you for tuning in for the Catalyst.

29:22

I'm Heather Haskin. See you again in two weeks.

29:26

The Catalyst is brought to you by

29:26

SoftChoice, a leading North American

29:30

technology solutions provider. It is written and produced by

29:32

Angela Cope, Philippe Dimas,

29:35

and Brayden Banks in partnership

29:35

with Pilgrim Content Marketing.

29:42

This episode is brought to you by AWS.

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