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2:36

Well, it wasn't always pretty, but

2:38

the Cleveland Cavaliers found a way

2:40

to pull away against the Utah

2:42

Jazz and their losing streak. I'm

2:44

feeling better. I finally get to

2:46

see a win. It's always a

2:48

little concerning. It seems like these

2:50

afternoon games have given them trouble,

2:52

but the Cavs got the W.

2:54

And I'm feeling W's right now

2:56

because I'm joined by my co-host.

2:58

Carter Rodriguez, Carter Rodriguez, Carter

3:00

Rodriguez, Carter. How you know buddy.

3:02

That's all you can really

3:05

ask for, for a late season

3:07

trip to Utah, especially for an

3:09

afternoon matinee game where the Cavs

3:12

have not been playing their best

3:14

ball in those settings. The end,

3:16

with them playing their worst

3:18

basketball of the season. And,

3:20

you know, first off, way better to

3:22

win than lose. You know, I don't know

3:25

if I feel like everything is

3:27

solved as of yet. I still think

3:29

there's stuff to get cleaned

3:31

up. there's still some form

3:33

questions concerns I have a little bit

3:36

but like at the end of the day you

3:38

know I don't think they played their best game

3:40

and they won by 29 points yeah I

3:42

did not feel like this was

3:45

a vintage clue and cavaliers basketball

3:47

win right like I don't think that

3:49

this was necessarily a return to form

3:51

from the best versions of this team

3:53

that we've seen but what I will

3:55

say is I did feel like from

3:58

the start the defensive effort was there.

4:00

Even when the shots weren't falling,

4:02

and that hasn't consistently been the case.

4:04

I think we've seen at times that,

4:06

you know, the defensive effort falls off

4:09

as the shots aren't falling. You know,

4:11

they're a little late on the rotations,

4:14

the scrambles are half-step slow. I felt

4:16

even in the first half, where

4:18

Utah was able to hang around,

4:20

the defensive effort was consistently there. Guys

4:22

were, you know, diving for loose balls,

4:25

they were rotating, they were communicating. And

4:27

if they're going to continue to go

4:29

through a bit of this stretch, which

4:32

we can get into later on whether

4:34

or not we think that this is

4:36

going to continue, but reality is they

4:39

have been on the road for a

4:41

very long time. They haven't played in

4:43

the same city twice since February

4:45

25th when they... Crazy. So they've

4:47

been traveling between every single game and

4:50

I understand some of those games are

4:52

at home, but when you're only there

4:54

for an evening... It's just an extension

4:57

of the road trip at that point.

4:59

You're never fully getting any rest. And

5:01

I think that has happened. Nothing's coming

5:04

out of the bags. Yeah, exactly, right?

5:06

I think Danny Cunningham on locked on

5:08

cassas said basically over that stretch, they've

5:11

had four nights at home. Like,

5:13

that's nothing, right? So I do

5:15

think that that is having an effect

5:17

on these guys. I think it was

5:19

big. they were able to win comfortably

5:22

enough that a lot of the starters

5:24

got to sit for, you know, the

5:26

end of the third quarter and the

5:29

entire fourth quarter. But I think fatigue

5:31

is definitely a factor. But if you're

5:33

going to be playing with some tired

5:36

legs, if your shots aren't going to

5:38

be falling at the clip that we're

5:40

accustomed to, getting it done and

5:42

at least committing on the defensive

5:44

end, I think is a step in

5:47

the right direction. Yeah. I mean, I

5:49

just thought in general the energy was

5:51

a lot better. It's tough because this

5:54

Utah team is in such rough shape.

5:56

You know, they're a lot worse than

5:58

they even were last year. terms of

6:01

the guys they have on the floor.

6:03

You know, no John Collins, no Lowry

6:05

marketing. And so, you know, they're playing

6:08

some guys that I just think,

6:10

you know, Cody Williams, ain't Jaylon

6:12

Williams, he ain't his brother. And so,

6:14

you know, I was trying to kind

6:17

of identify the spots where it was

6:19

like, are they giving up open shots

6:21

and Utah isn't able to convert? Or

6:24

are they locked in? And overall, I

6:26

think they were pretty locked in. I

6:28

think that there were a few possessions

6:31

where they certainly got, they didn't have

6:33

to guard as hard, you know, like,

6:35

because, you know, Utah had a lot

6:38

of guys out there that maybe

6:40

weren't the best shooters, you know,

6:42

at different parts of their roster. But,

6:44

you know, the game is the game.

6:46

And I think they played their opponent.

6:49

Well, they played to the scouting report.

6:51

Well, they left the right kinds of

6:53

guys open. They crashed down in the

6:56

right spots. You know, they forced 18

6:58

turnovers. They had seven combined blocks as

7:00

a team. They had nine steals. That

7:03

tells me at least the energy was

7:05

going a little bit. Yep. Yeah.

7:07

And you know, I had the

7:09

eye roll. One Walker Kessler hit a

7:11

three-pointer in the first half because I

7:14

was like, come on, a 17% three-point

7:16

shooter. Three-point shooter. go out there and

7:18

start hitting shots on us. He ended

7:21

up going one for eight, which is

7:23

just under 13%. So, you know, he

7:25

shot his career averages. Eight three point

7:28

attempts is, uh, no comment. What that

7:30

is is getting to explore the space.

7:32

That is, you know, we're not

7:34

playing for wins here. Let's try

7:36

to expand your game. Jared Jackson Jr.

7:39

Got to do a lot of that

7:41

last year where, hey, like... That's Andre

7:43

Drumman taking three's for us a couple

7:46

years a couple years ago. Hey, hey,

7:48

hey, that was some fun basketball cutter.

7:50

Don't you dare talk down on Andre

7:53

Drum and explore in the space, but

7:55

yeah, there were definitely, you know. As

7:57

you said, whether it's Walker Kessler throwing

8:00

up threes or some of the other

8:02

options that they had, you're not

8:04

going to need to close out

8:06

on them the same way that you

8:08

have to against the Kevin Durant or

8:11

Royso Neal. But I thought the overall

8:13

defensive effort has been a lot better.

8:16

Mobily struggled in his first game back

8:18

from injury defensively against the clippers. I

8:20

thought... even though the the Sons game

8:23

didn't go our way, I thought his

8:25

defensive effort and impact was back. He

8:27

blocked the Kevin Durant pull-up jumper. It

8:30

was crazy. Which is just about

8:32

the hardest thing you can do

8:34

in basketball. That is one of the

8:36

most difficult shots to defend period in

8:38

the league. And then Durant, by the

8:41

way, answered with like nine pull-up hits

8:43

in response. It was like, it was

8:45

almost like, oh. Okay, and he definitely

8:48

wanted to get his back and Kevin

8:50

Durant is still very good at basketball.

8:52

Yes, he is. And you know, I

8:55

just think that it's at least a

8:57

foundation, right, because for the most part,

8:59

the offensive struggles have kind of

9:01

continued. We haven't been hitting threes

9:03

at the rate we're accustomed to. Another

9:06

10 missed free throws tonight. Crazy. Honestly,

9:08

that really goes to show that you're

9:10

out of a rhythm, right? When you're

9:13

even missing all the free throws, even

9:15

when they get to the rim at

9:17

times, it's, they haven't been finishing the

9:20

way that we're used to seeing. And

9:22

I don't know what's, if there's any

9:24

one thing that's solely to blame for

9:27

the rut that they're in offensively,

9:29

but I do think at least

9:31

getting the win, getting some of that

9:33

confidence back, pulling away in the way

9:35

that they did. can at least help

9:38

gain some positive momentum which you know

9:40

basketball whether it is within a game

9:42

or if you're talking about an 82

9:45

game season it's a game and it's

9:47

a season of runs it is such

9:49

a momentum sport and sometimes you just

9:52

need to see a couple of them

9:54

go down for you to gain

9:56

your confidence as a shooter sometimes

9:58

you just need to get that one

10:00

win to start rattling off wins again.

10:03

So I hope that this can at

10:05

least be a catalyst for that. Yeah,

10:07

and I mean, I think it's also important

10:10

for this team to kind of

10:12

remind themselves that they don't need

10:14

to shoot well to win. You know, I

10:16

think they started leaning on that a little

10:18

bit as a crutch of like, you know,

10:21

okay, if the three pointers going, we

10:23

feel great. If the threes aren't going,

10:25

maybe we don't feel so great. They shoot

10:27

23% in this in this game. They go 11

10:29

of 48, which man, that's a lot

10:31

of three pointed times. I know, I know

10:33

a lot of them were open,

10:36

but you know, we're bored, we're

10:38

pressing my comfortability there with that

10:40

much. It was literally half their

10:42

fill goal attempts. But you know, they

10:44

go 11 of 48 from three, they go

10:47

33 of 48 from two. And they get

10:49

to the room consistently,

10:51

they're forcing turnovers, they're getting

10:53

out and running and scoring

10:55

in multiple ways. You know,

10:58

it's really hard to score

11:00

120 points when you shoot

11:02

23% from 3 and 68% from the free

11:04

throw line. And I think it goes to

11:06

show that there are a lot of roads

11:08

up the, you know, the proverbial mountain

11:11

here. And just because you're

11:13

not in great form as

11:15

a shooter, doesn't mean that

11:17

you just have to shrug and

11:19

be like, well, that's the only

11:21

way. We just got to hope we

11:23

make them because like the calves never

11:25

made them in this game. and it

11:27

didn't matter on route to score 120

11:30

points. Yeah, and that is my preferred way

11:32

to go about this, right? Like let's

11:34

attack the rim, let's try to, if

11:36

we're going to generate open threes, have

11:39

it be because we're attacking the rim,

11:41

the defense is collapsing, and we are

11:43

generating quality looks. Like I don't want

11:46

to settle for threes, and I do

11:48

feel like the offensive process hasn't been

11:50

as crisp as it has been throughout

11:52

the season. I do feel like they

11:55

are settling for threes. you know, not

11:57

to pick on anyone in particular.

11:59

but Sam Merrill when he in

12:01

the first half took a pull up

12:04

kind of one on four three in

12:06

transition it's a decent look on nights

12:08

where you have it rolling I'm fine

12:11

with that but you have to value

12:13

the the shots is particularly when you're

12:15

overall in an offensive rut I think

12:18

you need to work to get better

12:20

looks and I I was encouraged actually

12:22

at the start of this game against

12:25

Utah where Donovan was really getting to

12:27

the rim. He was getting to the

12:29

rim at will. I thought that they

12:32

were generating very, very quality looks. I

12:34

thought Walker Kessler was having trouble defending

12:36

in space. And I was like, okay,

12:39

perfect. Let's, let's attack. Let's keep getting

12:41

this, you know, let's, let's force Utah

12:43

to make us do something different. And

12:46

I felt like we got ourselves out

12:48

of that offensive rhythm. I thought after

12:50

that start. all of a sudden we

12:53

started going for that knockout punch. We

12:55

started to take more threes without really

12:57

working the ball in generating high high

13:00

quality looks. And I just felt like

13:02

the offensive process overall wasn't as good

13:04

as it could have been. Yeah, an

13:07

88.5 offensive rating in the second quarter

13:09

where Utah kind of made their run

13:11

back and I was going over nine

13:13

from three. I didn't think they took

13:16

the best threes. But I think the

13:18

probably the most problematic thing is only

13:20

three assists. in the second quarter so

13:23

the ball kind of wasn't moving the

13:25

way it was to start the game

13:27

the down downward momentum that kind of

13:30

made it hard for Utah to stick

13:32

with them kind of went away they

13:34

got more to side to side basketball

13:37

and you know of course they just

13:39

missed a lot which is tough but

13:41

you know like I do think I

13:44

do think you're right that this is

13:46

still a team that's like kind of

13:48

like I think that's where both of

13:51

us are kind of on the This

13:53

is nice, but I do want to

13:55

see like, we want to see some

13:58

of the underlying performance metrics tick back

14:00

up a little bit before we feel.

14:02

like they're out of the woods with

14:05

this rough stretch of play. Yeah, and

14:07

I think part of how the calves

14:09

are built lends itself towards being able

14:12

to make these pivots, right? Like there

14:14

are stretches where offensively our identity is

14:16

going to be centered around the guards,

14:19

right? They are going to generate good

14:21

looks for everybody else. We can really

14:23

lean on them offensively. When you're in

14:26

ruts like this and when you're in

14:28

kind of this, you know, long road

14:30

trip, bit of a rock fight, I'd

14:32

like to see us lean more and

14:35

more on the bigs. And I just

14:37

felt like we haven't been consistently doing

14:39

that over this stretch. And Evan Mobley

14:42

and Jared Allen are able to generate

14:44

really, really good looks for themselves. They

14:46

are such intelligent players in space, in

14:49

traffic, they're able to generate rim pressure

14:51

in ways that... you know, frankly, no

14:53

one else on this roster is really

14:56

able to do at that same level.

14:58

Even if it involves, when you're in

15:00

those one big configurations, getting De Andre

15:03

Hunter as the role man and trusting

15:05

him to finish or draw contact at

15:07

the rim. I would just like to

15:10

see us attack the rim more and

15:12

not settle into, well, this is our

15:14

shot profile when everything's rolling. So let's

15:17

almost speak it into existence. Let's take

15:19

these same shots and trust that they're

15:21

going to fall. I really feel like

15:24

once you kind of get that rim

15:26

pressure, once you challenge teams and they

15:28

are changing what they're doing defensively to

15:31

take that away, then you can start

15:33

opening things up and taking those threes.

15:35

And if it's not falling at that

15:38

point, at least you can say, hey,

15:40

they were really cheating to take away

15:42

the rim. These were the looks that

15:45

we were able to generate. We trust

15:47

that these are going to fall at

15:49

some point. But I don't feel like

15:51

that's the case. I feel like we

15:54

are the ones dictating our shot selection

15:56

more than what the defense is doing

15:58

at this point. Well, I also, I

16:01

don't know, I was thinking about how

16:03

when you're slumping this hard as a

16:05

team, shoot... it does get break your

16:08

brain a little bit because when you

16:10

do want to run your offense the

16:12

way you normally run it and the

16:15

defense collapses you're supposed to kick it

16:17

out right and when you kick it

16:19

out to an open shooter they're supposed

16:22

to shoot it so and I feel

16:24

like as they've been you know so

16:26

icy teams have slow you know I

16:29

think the calves have gotten a lot

16:31

of open looks over these last five

16:33

games yeah And I have noticed, I

16:36

feel like when, you know, and I

16:38

certainly feel like the Cavs have done

16:40

this, when the other team clearly didn't

16:43

have it, you're like, oh man, we

16:45

really get to worry about the rim

16:47

tonight, you know, and we get to

16:50

collapse a little harder because until they

16:52

start killing us, why would we, why

16:54

would we, you know, the only place

16:57

they're getting us is at the rim,

16:59

so let's just protect the rim. Yeah,

17:01

they're getting into the teeth, the defense

17:04

collapses, and then they have to kick

17:06

it out. And so that's, so I'm

17:08

sympathetic, I guess. But like, that's where

17:10

I think your point about running things

17:13

through the bigs and attacking differently is

17:15

that's your skeleton key. That's your solution

17:17

because you're at least, like, one, it's

17:20

harder for them to dig down and

17:22

help when it's Evan initiating. or Jared

17:24

catching it on the move, you know,

17:27

and finishing as opposed to, you know,

17:29

when those guys are catching the ball

17:31

near the rim and getting the ball

17:34

into scoring position, it's just an easier

17:36

finish for them than Darius or Donovan

17:38

because they're massive. And those guys are

17:41

small, right? So like if there is

17:43

extra help in the, you know, so

17:45

like I think that's why. I've been

17:48

disappointed to see them not go to

17:50

the bigs as much because it's like

17:52

change the rhythm of what you're doing

17:55

when the base system isn't working because

17:57

one you'll get stronger at those at

17:59

those you know like where you let

18:02

Evan just run the offense for a

18:04

quarter like you your your group can

18:06

kind of congeal about around that and

18:09

then it does change the rhythm for

18:11

the guards you know if Donovan's pull-up

18:13

game is really not there like giving

18:16

him a bunch of catch and shoot

18:18

attempts in a row probably goes a

18:20

long way like changing the rhythm of

18:23

where these guys are catching it when

18:25

the current rhythm is not leading to

18:27

to makes and this is all very

18:29

soft squishy stuff which is really hard

18:32

to analyze especially as like non players

18:34

and non coaches yeah like we're not

18:36

guys going through shooting slums you know

18:39

we're not coaching guys out of shooting

18:41

slumps so this is all very squishy

18:43

and very theoretical and you know it's

18:46

very possible any member of the coaching

18:48

staff or player might Listen to this

18:50

which they won't but if they did

18:53

they might listen to this and shake

18:55

their head and be like these guys

18:57

don't know what they're talking about But

19:00

that's the challenge of dealing with performance

19:02

dips like this especially as shooters because

19:04

it's like How do you break it

19:07

out of it? Or do you just

19:09

have to kind of white knuckle through

19:11

it? I don't know the answer Yeah,

19:14

I think you're right. When the base

19:16

system isn't working, that's something that can

19:18

just kind of break your brain in

19:21

a lot of ways. But sometimes it's

19:23

nice to know, even when the base

19:25

system isn't working, there's a backup system

19:28

that's there supporting you, Carter, just like

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looking at the wide open looks

22:55

that the cats have got, the

22:57

Utah data isn't in the mix

22:59

yet, but at least for this

23:01

four game, the losing streak that

23:03

preceded it. They... we're getting a

23:05

decent number of wide open looks

23:07

for the for the season they

23:09

take over 20 wide open threes

23:12

per game where a defender is

23:14

not within six feet over the

23:16

losing streak it was 17.5 they're

23:18

shooting 41% on those looks for

23:20

the losing streak so you know

23:22

it's only 1% worse than they

23:24

shoot on the season for those

23:26

looks but and it is three

23:28

fewer but they were getting a

23:30

decent number of looks I just

23:32

feel like Some of those semi

23:34

contested the late contest and just

23:36

how they're getting to the shots

23:38

hasn't felt as good as it

23:41

has at other times of the

23:43

year and Obviously when your guards

23:45

have been going through a funk

23:47

that's going to make things tough.

23:49

I feel like Darius has mostly

23:51

broken out of it tonight wasn't

23:53

a great night for him, but

23:55

he started to get hot and

23:57

And then him getting hot, him

23:59

and Donovan getting hot in the

24:01

third quarter basically put the game

24:03

away so they didn't get a

24:05

chance to continue. How about Ty

24:08

finally hit in a few? That

24:10

was big for Ty. That was

24:12

tremendous. Honestly, Ty Jerome and De

24:14

Andre Hunter both coming out there

24:16

and having big games off the

24:18

bench, I thought was significant. I

24:20

think that that is the kind

24:22

of thing that you really need

24:24

to have going if you're going

24:26

to continue to have some success

24:28

on this road trip and actually

24:30

close it out on the right

24:32

foot. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean,

24:34

I think really you look at

24:37

those, the three guards, you know,

24:39

because this team really has three

24:41

guards that play now in Thai,

24:43

Darius, and Donovan. Thai has gotten

24:45

his numbers up a little bit.

24:47

He's, you know, he's up to

24:49

46 from the field and 31

24:51

from three. Darius is at 39

24:53

from the field and 32% from

24:55

three. And Donovan is at. 33%

24:57

from the field and 16.7% from

24:59

three. He hasn't had a three

25:01

in his last two games. This

25:03

is all for the month of

25:06

March for these guys. And like

25:08

there is a little bit of

25:10

like an inherent like there's nothing

25:12

to analyze here. When those three

25:14

guys are slashing that poorly collectively,

25:16

they are the play initiators for

25:18

this offense for the most part.

25:20

Yeah. And it's not like You

25:22

know, and we can make the

25:24

Evan argument and I still think

25:26

we should that like we want

25:28

to see Evan initiate more and

25:30

run things through the bigs. But

25:32

it's not like his usage is

25:35

like cratered this month and they've

25:37

stopped running the ball through him.

25:39

We just are wanting it more

25:41

because the other, the alternatives don't

25:43

feel as good as they normally

25:45

do. Right. So like, yeah, it's

25:47

just it's just a funky, funky

25:49

time of year, which is not

25:51

particularly mathematical. But yeah, Evan's usage

25:53

for the year is at 22.6.

25:55

Looking it up live. with me.

25:57

Oh God it's not loading Justin.

25:59

It's over. It's over. I'll let

26:01

you know. I'll let you know.

26:04

Okay. I'm 22.8. It's higher. It's

26:06

higher in March than it has

26:08

been for the year. Yeah. It's

26:10

funny because when I look at

26:12

this team there's nothing that jumps

26:14

out that like Red flag sirens

26:16

going off like last year when

26:18

I was very clear that Mitchell

26:20

was moving around on one leg

26:22

and Darius was the shell of

26:24

himself physically and was kind of

26:26

fading away, right? Like there are

26:28

times where There's just kind of

26:31

boneheaded mistakes like some of the

26:33

turnovers Darius has had over the

26:35

stretch are just too ambitious, right?

26:37

You're you're dealing with guys that

26:39

are mentally and physically tired and

26:41

you are throwing a rocket pass

26:43

through traffic bouncing wind you know

26:45

making it a very very difficult

26:47

catch for someone like Jaredown who's

26:49

rolling to the basket you can

26:51

kind of tone that down and

26:53

let's Let's go for, you know,

26:55

a more higher percentage play. Like,

26:57

I liked him going off the

27:00

glass, but nobody else was on

27:02

that scene. Nobody is on that

27:04

wavelength, right? Like, those unforced errors,

27:06

I think that you can do

27:08

a better job of kind of

27:10

mitigating. But for the most part,

27:12

like, when I see Donovan moving

27:14

around, some of the misses are

27:16

really bad, but he looks fine

27:18

to me physically. Like, yeah, I

27:20

think so too. And Kenny talked

27:22

about that after the the Sons

27:24

game where he was, hey, is

27:26

that growing something that's bothering him?

27:29

And he says that as far

27:31

as I understand, it's not. Our

27:33

medical staff has given him the

27:35

green light. This is just him

27:37

working through some stuff. And I

27:39

believe them. Like they have taken

27:41

such a cautious approach that if

27:43

a guy is out there, I

27:45

trust that they are not doing

27:47

further damage to themselves. And I

27:49

thought Donovan getting to the room

27:51

the way he did to start

27:53

this game. was a great sign

27:55

in terms of how he looked

27:58

physically. Yeah, I think so too.

28:00

And by the way speaking of

28:02

audacious passes. Was that baseball pass

28:04

distruths in the corner? The best

28:06

pass Donovan Mitchell has ever thrown

28:08

in his career? Oh my god.

28:10

It's the best one that I

28:12

can remember at least in his

28:14

recent play. Like that was phenomenal.

28:16

That had sauce on it. And

28:18

it went through like six people.

28:20

It was crazy. That was the

28:22

vision, the pace. I mean if

28:24

that is a 90% of the

28:27

speed. that he threw it, it's

28:29

getting picked off. And we're like,

28:31

what are you doing, Donovan? Like,

28:33

it was such an audacious decision,

28:35

and then to match it with

28:37

an audaciously, like strong and pate,

28:39

you know, the pace on that

28:41

thing was bananas. What a pass.

28:43

That was amazing. Sorry. I don't

28:45

have anything productive to say about

28:47

it. It was just cool. What

28:49

I liked about this game for

28:51

Donovan was... At least recently as

28:54

he's been going through this slump,

28:56

it's felt like the shot's not

28:58

falling and he's not helping in

29:00

other ways, right? Like he's actively,

29:02

you know, playing against the Cavs

29:04

at some point. And I wasn't

29:06

surprised to see him take accountability

29:08

after the Sun's game. That's 100%

29:10

what you expect from Donna Mitchell,

29:12

from a leadership standpoint. But I

29:14

felt like his bad games have

29:16

felt really bad. Whereas with this

29:18

game, he didn't shoot well. The

29:20

three-pointer, as you said, he hasn't

29:23

made one in the last two

29:25

games, but I thought he was

29:27

hitting the glass. I thought he

29:29

was active getting steals. I thought

29:31

the passing was good. I felt

29:33

like he was playing a good

29:35

overall game. He just wasn't shooting

29:37

well. And that's more reminiscent of

29:39

what we saw when Darius was

29:41

going through his slump, where, okay,

29:43

the playmaking's there at least in

29:45

that stretch when the shot wasn't

29:47

falling. Ironically, his assisted turnover ratio

29:49

had been great. That's what I

29:52

want to see from Donnelly because

29:54

you know Portland's not a good

29:56

team but there are a team

29:58

that has length we've seen them

30:00

you know, come down to the

30:02

wire against the calves. Tamara Kamara

30:04

is someone that can be really,

30:06

really disruptive defensively. So I'm going

30:08

to be interested to see there's

30:10

a very good chance that we

30:12

have another off-shooting night there. Can

30:14

Donovan and Can Darius find ways

30:16

to make an impact even if

30:18

the shot isn't falling in that matchup?

30:21

One thing I do want to say, just,

30:23

you know, to kind of contextualize,

30:25

you know, because you made the comment like,

30:27

Darius was, you know, you know, even when

30:30

he was slumping it felt like everything else

30:32

was still you know the cats were able

30:34

to survive it because if he of all

30:36

the other things he was doing I would

30:38

also argue They were able to survive it

30:40

also because the rest of the team was

30:42

in really good form. Yes, that's a good

30:45

point. And the rest of the team is

30:47

not in really good form right now. So

30:49

it's like, you know, we're going to feel

30:51

a Donovan slump a lot harder when Darius

30:53

is also like not his best either. And

30:55

Thai is not at his best. I mean,

30:57

think about how many of those Darius games,

31:00

Thai just scored 24 points, you know. or

31:02

you know or or Max went off or

31:04

De Andre Hunter got to 30 points like

31:07

the whole team just isn't in the best

31:09

form right now so I think that is

31:11

an important piece of context

31:13

to layer into the Donovan slump

31:15

right now is like he doesn't have the

31:18

same level of insulation that the

31:20

team has provided the other players

31:22

on the team when they've not

31:24

played their best this year. Yeah that

31:26

that's a really fair point. It's funny

31:28

because I was looking at this game against

31:31

Utah and I'm like, wow, Cavs had a

31:33

60 to 30 edge on points in the

31:35

paint. They managed turnovers really well. And, you

31:37

know, as I'm building out the run down

31:40

for this episode, I'm sitting there, I'm like,

31:42

this is the kind of stuff they need

31:44

to do to raise their floor, right, to

31:46

mitigate the bad shooting nights and give themselves

31:49

a better chance. This is the stuff they

31:51

weren't doing against Phoenix. And then I go

31:53

back and I look at the game stats

31:55

for Phoenix. I'm like, I'm like, oh. He has

31:57

actually won the offense of rebound battle.

31:59

They won the turnover battle. They had

32:02

more points off of turnovers. Cows outscored

32:04

them, points in the paint. They had

32:06

five more steals. And yet the game

32:08

still felt so bad. And some of

32:11

that is due to how rough the

32:13

second half or the first half was.

32:15

I agree with Kenny Atkinson that I

32:18

thought their defensive effort in the second

32:20

half was a whole lot better. But

32:22

I'm looking at kind of the game

32:24

stats and those type of, you know,

32:27

effort splits and things like that and

32:29

I'm expecting them to be one way.

32:31

But it was a totally different way.

32:34

It really, really caught me off guard.

32:36

Yeah, I think it's one of those

32:38

things where it's like, where are those

32:40

offensive rebounds coming from? Oh, so Iguidaro

32:43

and Ryan Dunn, you know, a couple

32:45

rookies that are kind of outworking you,

32:47

Cody Martin, you know, on a two-way

32:50

contract lighting you up. Yeah. So like

32:52

I do think like, you can't forget

32:54

where the sons are as a team

32:56

right now. And like, like, I do

32:59

think that was a frustrating loss. I

33:01

do think that their focus was poor

33:03

and they were really counting. You know,

33:06

it's like the kind of the worst

33:08

thing where in that first half where

33:10

you get you give up the open

33:12

three and you don't close out hard

33:15

and then you shrug when it goes

33:17

in and it's like, well, I don't

33:19

tell you brother. Yeah. He didn't do

33:22

any of the things that would make

33:24

it not go in. So it's like

33:26

even if it's a guy who normally

33:28

wouldn't make it, you know, who's not

33:31

a great shooter who's not a great

33:33

shooter. It's like I don't know man

33:35

like again, you didn't do anything that

33:38

would make it hard for him So

33:40

it gets really hard to you know

33:42

feel too bad for you that you're

33:44

dealing with a high You know a

33:47

good shooting night from your opponent like

33:49

the shooting variance does not come out

33:51

of the same You know is not

33:54

always cut from the same cloth and

33:56

I felt like Phoenix really got whatever

33:58

they wanted and then by the time

34:00

the Cavs took the game really seriously

34:03

on the defensive end It was just

34:05

too big of a too big of

34:07

a gap to cover. and you were

34:10

counting on Kevin to rant to miss

34:12

contested shots and he might be the

34:14

best contested shot maker in the history

34:16

of the sport. Yeah and not only

34:19

that all of them were in a

34:21

rhythm because you gave them such quality

34:23

shots and they got to see it

34:25

go in so many times right? Can

34:28

I can I pick can I pick

34:30

a knit strategically from that game because

34:32

it bothered me at the time and

34:35

I was put in my back pocket?

34:37

I know that the zone has been

34:39

something we break out when things aren't.

34:41

working very well. We can't break out

34:44

the zone against Kevin Duran. It doesn't

34:46

work. He killed him. It's like the

34:48

best light contest shopmaker in the history

34:51

of the sport, probably. Like the difference

34:53

between not guarding Kevin Duran at all

34:55

at all and being a step or

34:57

two late on the contest is probably

35:00

more negligible than any player ever. Yeah,

35:02

and like that's what the zone does.

35:04

You know, like you can't always contest

35:07

everyone when you're trying to cover that

35:09

much ground or if he flashes to

35:11

the middle and just catches and immediately

35:13

jumps and shoots. Like yeah, that was

35:16

tough. And again, I just think there

35:18

were a lot of things, you know,

35:20

you know, strategically, the actual execution. they're

35:23

not playing their best ball right now

35:25

like at the end of the day

35:27

they're just not and like I am

35:29

definitely sympathetic of the staff trying to

35:32

figure out how to how to get

35:34

them going what trying to pull some

35:36

different lovers to see what's gonna motivate

35:39

they pull the javante green one that

35:41

we had theorized on the last podcast

35:43

yeah and I and I like just

35:45

minutes by the way but you know

35:48

I I think that right now this

35:50

is the dog days and you're just

35:52

trying stuff to see what sticks and

35:55

what gets people out of the funk.

35:57

I mean, Kenny mentioned it before this

35:59

game where he was getting ready to

36:01

a big challenging long practice to get

36:04

out of the slump and he's like,

36:06

let's play horse instead. to try to

36:08

have fun, you know, because like, we've

36:11

talked about this a lot that, you

36:13

know, no matter how much you love

36:15

basketball, no matter, you know, how good

36:17

your team chemistry is, there's going to

36:20

be a part of every season in

36:22

an, you know, with an 82 games

36:24

season to your point when you've been

36:27

on the road every single day since

36:29

February 25th, since February 25th, there is

36:31

going to be a part every season

36:33

where this is just a job. Yep.

36:36

And people don't like going to their

36:38

jobs. You know, I don't like going

36:40

to my job. If you get, and

36:42

I like my job, but if you

36:45

gave me the choice to stay home

36:47

and still get paid, I'd normally, I

36:49

generally take that option. And like, I

36:52

think that, you know, I think it

36:54

makes sense that Kenny goes to the,

36:56

goes to let's try just to inject

36:58

some fun and some levity end of

37:01

this. to break up that this is

37:03

a job monotony. And, you know, who's

37:05

to say if it worked, but they

37:08

definitely gave a much better showing against

37:10

Utah than they have against other teams

37:12

that maybe weren't strong either. This is

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slash CWP. Yeah, particularly you

39:56

know that that Sacramento game and the

39:58

Phoenix game both of those that's three

40:00

games, four nights in three different cities,

40:02

where you're traveling between all of those,

40:04

you're leaving the arena at 2am and

40:07

you're just exhausted, right? I think we

40:09

did a pretty good job at the start

40:11

of the month saying, hey, this is

40:13

going to be tough. This might not

40:16

be tough from a level of competition

40:18

standpoint. but they are going to be

40:20

traveling this entire month. I expect a

40:22

rut to happen at some point here

40:24

because this is just the kind of

40:26

stuff this is the grind of the

40:28

NBA season that always catches up to

40:30

guys and I definitely found it was

40:32

interesting that Kenny I can see went

40:34

that route. I think it makes a

40:36

lot of sense. You know it. It's just

40:38

very very difficult, right? And I've seen

40:41

people say, well, you know, they're only

40:43

playing in 32, 33 minutes. This is

40:45

less than last year, so how are

40:47

they going to get tired? Like, when

40:49

you are... I think it's a mental

40:52

fatigue, more than a physical fatigue. Right,

40:54

when you are traveling for, you know,

40:56

a month straight. Try telling someone hey

40:58

you played 33 instead of 35 you're

41:01

you should be fresh. No, like those

41:03

two minutes aren't making a difference. You're

41:05

still going through shooter and you're still

41:07

doing your you know the the workouts.

41:10

You're still going through your your post

41:12

game routine of icing down and all

41:14

the recovery stuff that you have to

41:17

do and you're never home. That's that's

41:19

going to have an effect. So when

41:21

I look at kind of the rest

41:23

of this month because it isn't until

41:26

the end of the month that they

41:28

actually have a stretch of games where

41:30

they're at home right there they're

41:32

going to play the clippers on the

41:35

30th and then I think it's the

41:37

Knicks yeah on the Wednesday after

41:39

so you know Sunday to Wednesday

41:41

they're going to be home I

41:43

expect them to look great in the next

41:46

game. But finally getting two days off, you're

41:48

at home the whole time, you're finally going

41:50

to get a little bit of a rest.

41:52

That first one back at home is always

41:55

kind of tough. That's almost an extension of

41:57

the road trip. But until then, I don't

41:59

expect... them to really blow a

42:01

team out in a dramatic fashion where,

42:03

you know, they shoot 60% from three

42:06

and the ball is popping and we're

42:08

getting those vintage cavalanches, I think that

42:10

this is going to be a bit

42:12

of a grind. I think they are

42:15

certainly capable of winning the rest of

42:17

these games, but I don't think it's

42:19

going to necessarily be the most pretty

42:21

basketball that we've seen. I have a

42:24

question for you, for this, you know,

42:26

through the rest of this month. Let's

42:28

say they win out through the end

42:30

of the end of the end of

42:33

the month. Would you rather see them

42:35

acknowledging that we're probably not going to

42:37

have a ton of blowouts? Would you

42:39

rather see them when 130 to 125

42:42

or 110 to 105? Sorry, what was

42:44

that first score? 130 to 125 or

42:46

110 to 105. Like would you like

42:48

to see, you know, things aren't coming

42:51

together, but like, you know, but we're

42:53

scoring or things aren't coming together, but

42:55

we're scoring or things aren't coming together,

42:57

but we're stopping, but we're stopping together,

43:00

but we're stopping. I think scoring, it's

43:02

just more fun. I've got my fantasy

43:04

finals next week. I had one this,

43:06

you know, this week, and I'm very

43:09

upset because I needed Darius and Donovan

43:11

to get me more points. And they

43:13

just had to be pulled in the

43:15

third quarter, which I get for the

43:18

greater good. I'm going the other way.

43:20

I'd like to see them get, I

43:22

want, if things aren't going to be

43:24

easy for the rest of this month,

43:27

I would like to see them hang

43:29

their hat on, we're gonna suck to

43:31

play against to play against. Our legs

43:33

are heavy on our jumper, which jumpers

43:36

were shorting everything, but damn it, if

43:38

we're gonna have a bad time on

43:40

offense, you're gonna have a bad time

43:42

too. And like, I do, I would

43:45

kind of like to see that. Like

43:47

I love that Utah only scored 91

43:49

points tonight. That is a much more

43:51

meaningful number than me than the 120.

43:54

In terms of assessing where the team's

43:56

head is at, if that makes sense.

43:58

Yeah. I guess where I'm coming from

44:00

is I look at Portland, I look

44:03

at Detroit, I look at... the Clippers,

44:05

these are all physical long teams that

44:07

are able to play defense at a

44:09

high high level. If the Cavs are

44:11

able to say, hey, our three ball

44:14

isn't falling, but we still found ways

44:16

to go out there and score 120

44:18

or 130 points, that would feel really,

44:20

really good to me. That is, hey,

44:23

not everything is working, but we are

44:25

still an offensive juggernaut. And particularly when

44:27

we're looking at. Can this offense finally

44:29

translate to the postseason? Can they finally

44:32

get over the hump and take the

44:34

successes they have in a regular season

44:36

to the postseason and establish themselves as

44:38

legitimate contenders in the postseason? More proof

44:41

of concept that they are able to

44:43

find ways to get it done offensively

44:45

in a variety of ways is going

44:47

to give me confidence. Because ultimately I

44:50

trust that this team can play defense.

44:52

I think that they're doing some things

44:54

that make things a little too hard

44:56

on themselves, whether it's, you know, as

44:59

you said, going to zone against the

45:01

Phoenix sons or going to the three

45:03

guard look in that time unnecessarily. I

45:05

think that that's things that you can

45:08

change up in the postseason. I think

45:10

that this team can defend at a

45:12

high, high level when it matters. the

45:14

offense that's going to remain a question

45:17

until we actually see it so continuing

45:19

to at least get that positive reinforcement

45:21

on that end of the court i

45:23

think that makes it easier to play

45:26

defense because the the the the offense

45:28

is rolling and it just makes me

45:30

feel a little bit better i guess

45:32

the true answer there is that's where

45:35

more my insecurities lie as a fan

45:37

on the offense event versus the defense

45:39

event that's fair and honestly to your

45:41

point if they are scoring a 130

45:44

a night for the next four or

45:46

five games means Darius or Donovan are

45:48

playing really well Generally, like that's that's

45:50

that's a truism, but you know like

45:53

and not necessarily Mobley takeovers, baby. Yeah

45:55

Either way it means that figured some

45:57

amount and That that has not been

45:59

clicking for them. So I get what

46:02

you're saying. And then I'm gonna move

46:04

it to another macro question, if I

46:06

may. Justin, we thought that a franchise

46:08

record of 67 wins was all but

46:11

a certainty. Just seven days ago, going

46:13

into that Orlando game, now they have

46:15

to finish 10 and 1 to get

46:17

there. Do they get there? Do they

46:20

get there? I'm going to keep the

46:22

faith. I'm going to say yes. I

46:24

think it's going to be ugly. I

46:26

think it's going to be scary. But

46:29

yeah, I think that they get there.

46:31

I think they go 10 and 1

46:33

to close this thing out. It's not

46:35

a high, high degree of confidence with

46:38

it. I am disappointed that it is

46:40

a question. After that four game losing

46:42

streak, but I think that they are

46:44

capable of pulling that off. I think

46:47

they've responded unbelievably well. to their the

46:49

swoons they've had this year to your

46:51

point privately to me we went 21

46:53

and 1 after our last three game

46:56

losing streak so it's not like the

46:58

team hasn't done it but I'm gonna

47:00

say we don't get there I think

47:02

I think we're gonna go eight and

47:05

three or nine and two down the

47:07

stretch and nine to yeah I could

47:09

see that and but boy I don't

47:11

know if the teams thinking about it,

47:14

but I sure would love to see

47:16

them get there. It would mean so

47:18

much to like, I feel like reclaim

47:20

your dominance going into the post-season as

47:23

opposed to like a limp in, you

47:25

know, we just like I know that

47:27

there's no rhyme or reason to this.

47:29

In teams that limp into the post-season

47:32

end up going on runs all the

47:34

time. Teams that come into the post-season

47:36

red hot get knocked in the first

47:38

round all the time. Like I know

47:41

but like just for the vibes I

47:43

would love to see this team rattle

47:45

off. two weeks of really strong play

47:47

as we close out this regular season.

47:50

Well, especially because they're going to be

47:52

playing some teams that are really gunning

47:54

for these wins, that really want to,

47:56

you know, I think that's part of

47:59

the losing streak, right? We were playing

48:01

teams that are desperate, that were playing

48:03

with their seasons on the line, while

48:05

the Cavs weren't playing for much, right?

48:08

Like I think... That was a big

48:10

big factor here. So for them to

48:12

say, you know what, let's play spoiler.

48:14

Let's ruin the clippers day here and

48:17

give them a loss. Let's you know

48:19

go through the gauntlet that is plain

48:21

Detroit and the physicality that they play

48:23

with and Let's punch them in the

48:26

mouth, right? Let's get that with I

48:28

think that that would feel really great

48:30

Particularly you got two games against the

48:32

Knicks anytime you can hand the Knicks

48:35

and hell that's going to feel great.

48:37

So if they can pull it off

48:39

that be great You know as you

48:41

said if they go eight and three

48:43

That's 65 wins. We would be thrilled

48:46

about that, but before the season and

48:48

I think no matter Justin Can I

48:50

just say this is unbelievable? No matter

48:52

what? Expectation we set at the beginning

48:55

of the season no matter how ambitious

48:57

we think it is the Cavs every

48:59

year have exceeded that expectation so thoroughly

49:01

That by the end we're like Oh

49:04

man, they only got to this? It's

49:06

like, it's what this team does man.

49:08

Even in a season where like, there's

49:10

no way I could feel, even any

49:13

shred of disappointment at the end of

49:15

the year based on how far they

49:17

flew past what I thought they were

49:19

going to be. Like that just is,

49:22

it's honestly reflective of how good they've

49:24

been in this last three, four years

49:26

that and even in this season, that

49:28

I can be like. Oh man, only

49:31

66 wins! Yeah, I think given the

49:33

benefit of hindsight, it's obviously going to

49:35

be something I celebrate, particularly if they

49:37

have a great postseason run. We're going

49:40

to look back on the season very,

49:42

very. fondly, but they've also earned those

49:44

increased expectations and I would be disappointed

49:46

if they didn't go out and get

49:49

the franchise win record or at least

49:51

at the very least tie it. You

49:53

know I think that that would be

49:55

a nice bow on on this regular

49:58

season. I think this team has played

50:00

at that kind of level so I

50:02

want to see them go out and

50:04

achieve it. Yeah, me too. I think

50:07

they can. I think it would be

50:09

a special cap to a special season.

50:11

But it'll still be a dear point.

50:13

It's still a special season if they've

50:16

landed at 64, 65, 66 wins. You

50:18

know, matching a win total that you

50:20

only ever got with LeBron James in

50:22

the building is certainly nothing to sneeze

50:25

at. Totally agree. We'll see obviously closing

50:27

out this road trip with a lot

50:29

of wins would go a long way

50:31

towards getting that win record. So we'll

50:34

see if they're able to pull it

50:36

off and... Really, you know, as you

50:38

said, get off to Schneide, get the

50:40

offense back on track, keep this defense

50:43

locked and it'll be great to see.

50:45

Big thanks to everyone that tuned in

50:47

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if you're, if you're, if you're, if

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you're, if you're, if you're, if you're,

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if you're, if you're, You

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