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1:59

Hello everybody and welcome to the Sidious

2:01

Mag podcast. I'm Chris Chavez and this is

2:03

my show where I chat with some of

2:05

the biggest names on the track on the

2:07

roads within the coaching ranks and across the

2:09

running industry. Our guests sit down and open

2:11

up in depth to share their experiences, brilliant

2:13

insights and vivid snapshots from their professional and

2:15

personal accomplishments in the sport. Before we

2:17

hit our interview, you know we love giving

2:19

the listeners a shout out when they leave us

2:21

a review. If you want yours to be

2:23

read, leave us a five star review on Apple

2:25

Podcasts and let us know why you love

2:27

this show. This week's review actually comes to us

2:29

from Apple Podcast Canada, our producer,

2:31

Jasmine Fair, is in

2:33

Canada and was able to open up Apple

2:35

Podcasts and read a couple of that

2:37

I don't usually see while I'm here in

2:39

the States. So this one comes us

2:41

from K -Fits Can. who wrote, Future

2:43

of Sports Media, Sidious Mag is hands

2:45

down one of the best out there.

2:47

Their content across platforms is so thoughtful,

2:50

compelling and well produced and always with

2:52

a human story at the forefront. I've

2:54

been a runner for a long time,

2:56

but Sidious Mag turned me into a

2:58

real fan with their stories made. it

3:00

fun and easy for anyone to follow the

3:02

sport. As a multi -sport athlete, I follow a

3:04

lot of sports and every Olympic and pro

3:06

sport can learn a thing or two from

3:08

Sidious Mag on how to build, engage audiences,

3:11

and inspire communities. Keep up the great

3:13

work. Many, many, many

3:15

thanks to K -Fitscan for

3:17

that review. Canadians are

3:19

just the best. If

3:21

you want your reviews to be read, drop

3:23

us a five review on Apple Podcast today. Sometimes

3:29

the best breakthroughs don't come after

3:31

a perfect buildup. They come from

3:33

trusting your gut leaning into the

3:35

tough days and racing fearlessly when

3:37

it matters the most. That's exactly

3:39

what Annie Frisbee did at the

3:41

2025 Boston Marathon, and she's my

3:43

guest for today's episode. Running

3:45

through a rocky buildup that started with

3:47

an upper hamstring tear, Annie put herself

3:49

right into the mix early on, going

3:52

out aggressively with the lead pack and

3:54

refusing to back down when the race

3:56

got tough. She crossed the finish line

3:58

in 2 -23 -21, nearly a three -minute

4:00

personal vest and the eighth fastest Boston

4:02

finish ever by an American woman, That's

4:04

a huge step forward for the Minnesota

4:06

Distance Elite athlete who first turned heads

4:08

with a 226 debut at the 2021

4:11

New York City Marathon and has steadily

4:13

and quietly been building towards a moment

4:15

like this ever since. Today,

4:17

Annie joins me to talk and tell the full

4:19

story behind her Boston breakthrough, the

4:21

injury recovery, the confidence building, the

4:23

decisions to go with the leaders early,

4:25

and why this is just the beginning.

4:27

So without further ado, here is Annie

4:29

Frisbee. All

4:43

right, now I'm joined by

4:45

Annie Frisbee, fresh off of

4:47

a shiny new personal vest,

4:49

223 -21, eighth place at

4:51

the Boston Marathon, second American. You

4:54

gave yourself, I think, a whole week. You just

4:56

told me before we started recording, no

4:58

running, lots of walking into

5:00

nature in Bellingham, Washington. And

5:02

so when you're out there,

5:05

how have the feelings been

5:07

processed for this performance? Yeah,

5:09

it was great to have

5:11

a trip planned immediately after I

5:13

was out there visiting my

5:15

sister. Yeah,

5:18

being out there with my family

5:20

was awesome. And it

5:22

was fun to break down the race with

5:24

them out in Washington. Just

5:26

got to see my sister and my

5:28

mom, but then we have some

5:30

family out there too. So I got

5:33

to recap the race to a

5:35

couple of my aunts and uncles who

5:37

are super interested in how everything

5:39

went down. And yeah, I feel like

5:41

every every day I sort

5:43

of remember something new about the race

5:45

so it's just fun to sort of

5:47

talk about it with people because then

5:49

I remember other aspects of the race

5:51

that maybe I you know after the

5:53

race initially you're kind of just like

5:55

what happened you know how

5:58

did I do that and

6:00

then over the week you kind

6:02

of break it down and to

6:04

remember all the little nitty gritty

6:06

details. Yeah, I'll probably

6:08

ask you about some of the moves that were made

6:10

and all that kind of stuff. I'm curious. What

6:12

were they most curious about from the race? What

6:15

made me decide to go

6:17

with the initial moves? Did

6:19

I know what place I was

6:21

in throughout the race? And the answer

6:23

was no, I did not know

6:25

what place I was in. And

6:28

yeah, just like how I felt,

6:30

how did my feeling go? Kind

6:32

of the basic questions, I guess.

6:34

I'll probably pick at some

6:36

of the same same questions but I

6:38

want to go back to just sort

6:40

of like the training for this one

6:42

you know you and I caught up

6:44

a couple months back because we were

6:46

hosting a panel for all of the

6:48

project three participants and you were kind

6:50

of sharing a couple of like your

6:52

insights into training and how things were

6:54

going and if we go back to

6:56

the beginning of this block you were

6:58

dealing with like a hamstring issue and

7:01

so take me through sort of like

7:03

that recovery process and at what point you

7:05

started feeling good enough in the training

7:07

block to really give this like a full

7:09

go. Right after I ran

7:11

Chicago in the fall I

7:13

had a partial tear in my

7:15

upper hamstring and it kind

7:17

of just took me out like

7:20

I wasn't running for about

7:22

six weeks so I started back

7:24

running in December and It

7:26

was just like very

7:28

slow progress. I didn't

7:30

start to feel good

7:32

until the week leading

7:35

up to the half

7:37

marathon championships in March

7:39

and had a pretty bad race

7:41

in Atlanta at the half marathon

7:43

championships, but it wasn't a surprise

7:45

either. Like when you only feel

7:47

good one week leading up to

7:49

the race, it's probably not going

7:51

to be a recipe for success. But

7:54

after that race, that

7:57

was kind of what jumpstarted

7:59

me feeling good and jumpstarted my

8:01

fitness. And after that, things

8:03

were relatively smooth with training.

8:05

So it took a long time

8:07

to get to that point,

8:09

like December to March of feeling

8:12

pretty bad. Like my hamstring

8:14

just wasn't fully cooperating. And so

8:16

after the half marathon championships,

8:18

I was really able to get

8:20

in the solid training that

8:22

I needed to feel confident in

8:24

my abilities. And

8:26

I had one more race.

8:28

I went to the

8:30

USATF 10 mile championships in DC. And

8:33

that one was kind of like,

8:35

all right, let's hopefully we're feeling

8:37

better than the half man on

8:40

championships because that's going to be

8:42

a real downer for my confidence

8:44

going into Boston if this one

8:46

doesn't go well. But

8:48

thankfully, I felt amazing there

8:50

had a really great race. I wasn't

8:52

far off my PR there. So

8:54

that was a huge confidence booster going

8:57

into Boston just two weeks later. And

8:59

at that point, I was just like,

9:01

all right, let's just go see what I

9:04

have in the tank. I felt good. I

9:06

think I didn't feel much pressure

9:08

just because of how rocky the build

9:10

up had been. I had a

9:12

really good mindset going into Boston this

9:14

year. At this point, this is your. Seventh

9:17

or eighth, I think career

9:19

marathon. What have you found works

9:23

in terms of just like

9:25

the Training for you like of all

9:27

these different builds. I'm sure they've all been

9:29

very different into the variety of different

9:31

courses You have to prepare for and the

9:33

type of race But what if you notice

9:35

that your body tends to like in

9:37

terms of just like the mileage and the

9:39

types of workouts You know for you

9:41

know 12 to 16 weeks Yeah,

9:43

I'm a relatively lower mileage,

9:46

I would say. I think

9:48

in this buildup, I got

9:50

up to 100 miles once

9:52

or twice. But I kind

9:54

of hover between that 80 to 100

9:56

miles per week. That's kind of my

9:58

sweet spot right now. I think maybe eventually

10:00

would move up. But for now,

10:02

I feel like I respond really well

10:04

to that. And

10:07

the workouts too, like

10:09

I really enjoy doing faster

10:11

stuff on the track you

10:15

know, mile repeats or 1200s.

10:17

Those are my favorite workouts, but

10:19

I definitely probably benefit the

10:21

most from long runs. And

10:23

thankfully, you know, my team, we have such

10:26

a big group. So I feel like they

10:28

kind of just pull me along. Obviously,

10:31

Dakota, she just is amazing at long

10:33

run. So just trying to hang on

10:35

for dear life is kind of my

10:37

motto for long runs. And then it

10:39

brings my fitness along pretty quickly. Those

10:42

are not necessarily my most enjoyable

10:44

workouts, but I feel like I

10:46

get the most out of them.

10:48

So definitely need those. I

10:51

was just reviewing your results from like the last

10:53

couple of years. I noticed

10:55

that in 2024 you competed in the USA to

10:57

have like road mile championships too. So you've

10:59

always like kind of had an affinity for the

11:01

speed side of things. Yeah. Last

11:03

year after the Olympic trials, I was

11:05

sort of of the mindset of just let's

11:07

just go do literally every race under

11:10

the sun and just, you know, see what

11:12

happens. And yeah, that was I wanted

11:14

to sign up for that one. It's so

11:16

close. It was like not a far

11:18

drive from Minneapolis at all. So was like,

11:20

I might as well just go and

11:22

ended up. PRing in the mile. So that

11:24

was fun and, you know, got to

11:26

compete against people I normally would never compete

11:29

against. So it was a different crowd. It's

11:32

fun to experiment with new

11:34

things to different distances, different

11:36

strategies, all those things. So

11:39

what was your sign to make

11:41

the full commitment to the roads?

11:43

Because as we kind of look

11:45

at this trend of athletes taking

11:47

to the roads a bit sooner and

11:50

not spending as much time in running the

11:52

10k is like you've been at the

11:54

marathon since 2021. And then I think it

11:56

was like two years before that, you

11:58

know, pre pandemic, you were

12:00

still running, you know, 5k 10ks on the

12:02

track. But what was your sort of

12:04

sign to be like, Hey, you know what,

12:06

like I want to commit fully to,

12:09

you know, the marathon and half marathons. And

12:11

that's where my colleague is. I've

12:13

always just enjoyed the roads a lot

12:15

more. I even in college, I

12:17

would say track wasn't my favorite. I

12:19

would love cross -country way more. Yeah,

12:22

the roads I just feel

12:24

way more confident in. All

12:26

my PRs are from the roads. Nothing

12:28

is from the track. I just don't

12:30

really have a passion for track, I

12:32

guess. Love watching it. Love

12:34

seeing other people compete. But for me personally,

12:37

I don't have the passion of competing on

12:39

the track. I don't know why it's so

12:41

different for me. Maybe one day I'll revisit the

12:44

track, but for now, I really just have

12:46

an interest in the roads. And

12:48

yeah, I feel like if it's where my

12:50

passion is, that's where I'm going to do

12:52

well. So my passion is on the roads

12:55

right now. I literally just

12:57

noticed that. So it's like mile

12:59

PR, 437 from the roads

13:01

versus your mile on the track,

13:03

448, 5K on the roads.

13:05

It's 1531, I think, right? I

13:08

think so, yeah. On the

13:10

track, it was 1605, 10K.

13:12

On the track, 3258. On

13:14

the roads, 3149. Across the

13:17

vort. I think the last time

13:19

I had a true track season was in college. It

13:21

was a while ago and maybe

13:23

one day, but for now, I'm happy

13:25

on the roads. Compared

13:28

to the runner you were when

13:30

you finished 10th at the

13:32

Olympic trials to this Boston Marathon

13:34

build, what is the

13:36

biggest difference you think? I think

13:38

after the Olympic

13:40

trials I

13:43

was able to sort of just

13:45

let go of a lot of

13:47

expectations I had for myself. That

13:49

was my first Olympic trials and I

13:51

think I definitely built it up too

13:53

much in my head and I think

13:56

I put too much pressure on myself.

13:58

I didn't feel external pressure necessarily but

14:00

I just put too much stock

14:02

into that one race I

14:04

think and so I think having

14:06

a little bit of disappointment

14:08

at that race really helped me

14:10

let go of those expectations

14:12

and then sort of go into my

14:14

next season just more open -minded

14:16

and since then too like this

14:18

year I feel like I'm just

14:20

more open -minded in races and you

14:22

know letting it not not

14:24

putting too much pressure on one

14:26

I guess. So many people have

14:28

their what -if moments during marathons,

14:30

but during the Olympic trials,

14:32

when it was ultimately, I think,

14:34

more of a test of attrition with

14:36

so many people just fallen off

14:38

in the last couple miles, was

14:41

there anything else that you could

14:43

have done, you think, to move up

14:45

a handful of places, or was

14:47

the team on that day just

14:50

a whole other level ahead? Because

14:52

people think top 10, third, but there

14:54

was a bit of a gap

14:56

there. uh seeing how

14:58

Jess McLean was able to

15:00

move up uh you

15:02

know definitely could have moved

15:04

up had I I

15:06

mean I was running on

15:08

empty so me personally I

15:10

don't think I was in a

15:12

position to do what Jess

15:14

did that day but uh I

15:16

will say like my my

15:18

mindset was a little bit like

15:20

oh I'm I'm here like

15:22

there's I can't catch

15:24

number nine or whatever. I

15:27

just forgot for some reason

15:29

how long the marathon is and

15:31

how much can happen even

15:33

in the last mile. And

15:36

I think I got a

15:38

little bit down too early and

15:40

kind of thought like, you

15:42

know, this is my position, even though

15:44

I probably had like eight

15:46

to ten miles left by the time I

15:49

sort of fell off. There was still so

15:51

much time to make those moves. But in

15:53

my mind, it was like it's

15:55

it's gone. But that wasn't

15:57

true. So yeah, definitely

15:59

good lesson for any

16:01

marathon. How does

16:03

it change, I guess, when

16:06

you go from an Olympic trials

16:08

where mentally you're probably as nervous

16:10

as you've ever been before any

16:12

race in that, you know, elite

16:14

athlete tent beforehand? And then

16:16

when you finish 10th, you do have some takeaways

16:18

from it. You have a whole summer of

16:20

racing, but then the next one comes up and

16:22

it's Chicago. How

16:24

different were the nerves or feelings

16:26

before that race? And

16:28

then when that goes the way

16:31

it does, how does it change,

16:33

I guess, before Boston this year? I

16:35

wasn't too. I mean,

16:37

I, of course, had a little bit of pre

16:39

-race nerves, but I.

16:41

Sometimes you just kind of know

16:43

in the back of your

16:45

head that a race might

16:47

not go your way. Like for

16:49

Chicago, for example, I

16:52

had had a really good summer

16:54

of racing, but I had started

16:56

to, at that point,

16:59

it was probably hamstring tendonitis.

17:02

And so like three to four

17:04

weeks before Chicago, I think

17:06

that's sort of when the hamstring

17:08

first started popping up, but... that

17:10

point, you're like, or I'm like, I

17:12

have four weeks left. My training is

17:14

going well. You know, we're just

17:16

gonna kind of muscle through it. But

17:19

I did kind of have this

17:21

feeling of, I don't think my

17:23

hamstring is gonna feel good. Trying

17:25

to ignore that thought as

17:27

much as possible, but sure

17:29

enough, race day did not

17:31

feel 100%. And yeah, when

17:33

you feel off at mile

17:35

two, three in the marathon,

17:38

it's... just it's so

17:40

early like i just don't you

17:42

don't want to feel bad at mile

17:45

two or three the signs were

17:47

there it wasn't necessarily going to go

17:49

well and so i think for

17:51

me chicago uh it wasn't necessarily this

17:53

massive surprise i guess so i

17:55

was able to move on quicker and

17:58

i just had to focus on

18:00

healing and recovery after that

18:02

one where this year

18:04

boston or this spring I

18:07

had really started to gain

18:09

some good momentum ever since

18:11

the half marathon championships in

18:13

March so each week was

18:15

just getting better and when

18:17

you're in that momentum phase it's every

18:19

week is just so exciting like you

18:21

look forward to the next workout because

18:23

you're just curious like oh I did

18:26

well last week let's see how well

18:28

I can do this week and it's

18:30

just fun to see everything

18:32

come together sort of at the right

18:34

time. And so that's what Boston

18:36

was. I was just excited because I

18:38

knew how much fitness I had

18:40

gained in the last month or months.

18:42

And it was really just go

18:44

out there and see what I had.

18:47

It's funny because it sounds

18:49

so similar to how Clayton

18:51

Young essentially also got his

18:53

groove back and his confidence

18:55

before Boston. the us

18:58

half marathon championships were a

19:00

total stinker for him and

19:02

he was so disappointed afterwards

19:04

and people look at the results on

19:06

paper but what they don't see is

19:08

that window of time between that race

19:10

and boston so can you describe it

19:12

i guess for us who don't you

19:14

know and because you guys don't have

19:16

your own youtube channel that uh kind

19:18

of shows that like clayton does what does

19:20

that look like when you are

19:22

doing these workouts and You are

19:24

crushing it and you're gaining this

19:26

confidence. Is it similar just

19:29

in a sense to, I mean, when

19:31

we see Clayton and Connor, there's

19:33

a gap between them and workouts, but

19:35

only you can interpret what that

19:37

means for race day. So with you

19:39

and Dakota, those weeks in

19:41

between describe it for us. Leading

19:43

up to the half championships, Dakota

19:45

and I, we went to

19:47

Durham, North Carolina for a month

19:49

in February to train. And

19:52

so for me, that month

19:54

was just all about building

19:56

mileage, building intensity, and

19:59

just grinding through not feeling

20:01

good, basically. So the

20:04

hamstring wasn't fully cooperating. And

20:06

then just when I'm in

20:08

that building phase, I'm just going

20:10

to be a little bit

20:12

more fatigued because I'm just building

20:14

and I'm not necessarily taking

20:16

down weeks quite yet. So that

20:18

month was just about grinding,

20:20

getting through it, trying

20:22

to, you know, try to

20:25

close that gap between Dakota

20:27

and I because Dakota was

20:29

already very fit going into

20:31

North Carolina. But then after...

20:33

half marathon championships came back

20:35

home to Minneapolis and I

20:37

think the race just kind of jump

20:39

started things almost like forced

20:41

the fitness a little

20:43

bit just enough so I

20:45

could actually have good

20:47

quality workouts and so after

20:49

that one I was able to

20:52

do more mileage and more more

20:54

workouts that I just left feeling

20:56

good about and it really only

20:58

takes one good workout for me

21:00

to kind of get that ball

21:02

rolling, I would say, leading

21:05

into the next one. And there was

21:07

quite a few workouts where I was

21:09

just like, I don't, I don't know if

21:11

I can do this, but then they

21:13

would go well. And, you know, each

21:15

one was just a confidence booster for the

21:17

next one. So yeah, it's crazy how

21:19

quickly my fitness can come

21:21

along once, once I sort of

21:23

got over that initial hump. But

21:26

It took a while to get

21:28

over that initial hump, but once

21:30

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know we're nerds for this kind of stuff.

23:01

What's one of the workouts that really kind

23:03

of boosted the confidence? I think

23:05

the one I was the

23:07

most scared for and ended

23:09

up going well was four

23:12

by three mile two miles

23:14

that marathon pace one at

23:16

threshold with like three

23:18

minutes jog recovery in between and

23:20

I've never done that one

23:22

before and I like most of

23:24

my workouts when my

23:26

hamstring wasn't feeling good would start

23:28

out fast but then it would

23:30

gradually get slower just because my

23:32

hamstring wasn't quite strong enough yet

23:34

but at that point my hamstring

23:37

was feeling good and I think

23:39

I stayed consistent or got really

23:41

progressively faster. And so that

23:43

one, I was just so nervous for

23:45

that. I was nervous as a race,

23:47

I think, for that workout, but

23:49

it went really well. And

23:51

that one was probably the biggest

23:53

confidence booster for the marathon specifically. was

23:56

like, oh, if I can get through that one, I

23:58

can probably race a marathon right now. How

24:00

did you define marathon pace for this build? Yeah,

24:03

it was tricky because Uh,

24:06

yeah, I wasn't at my

24:08

full form quite yet. So

24:10

I guess basing it more

24:12

off of goal marathon pace,

24:14

not maybe where I was

24:17

currently at. Um, so, and

24:19

just by feel too, honestly, um,

24:21

it could be one pace one day

24:23

and then a different pace the

24:25

next day. Was the decision

24:27

to run Boston with

24:29

the hamstring like issue

24:31

a little bit. tricky at

24:33

the beginning or was it never really much

24:35

of a question because you know of course

24:37

like as Americans like we tend to fall

24:39

into the spring marathon trap of it's mostly

24:42

Boston and then you know in the

24:44

fall it's split between Chicago and New York

24:46

people like to the top American marathoners like

24:48

to stay you know in the US it's

24:50

where the appearance fees are and all that

24:52

kind of stuff but you know was there

24:54

a level of caution when it came to

24:56

just sort of like well this course might

24:59

also be challenging for the hamstring Yeah,

25:01

I didn't think about it too much, honestly. I

25:04

mean, yes, it definitely

25:06

does play a factor. But

25:08

I was hoping, you know, my hamstring

25:10

will just come around in time.

25:12

It didn't really have any sort of

25:14

factor in my decision making for

25:16

which race I was going to run.

25:18

I was just hoping and praying

25:20

that it would come around in time.

25:23

What's it look like? During that

25:25

kind of like training block where there

25:27

is just like a stark contrast between

25:29

you running, you know 80 to 100

25:31

miles a week and then Dakota hitting

25:33

like 130 sometimes So it's like are

25:35

you just staying home when it's like

25:37

oh all right. She's out for you

25:40

know, there's eight mile double of the

25:42

day Yeah, when we lived together in North

25:44

Carolina, I swear she had a double

25:46

almost every day and so I would only

25:48

like max three doubles

25:50

a week and mine were shorter.

25:52

So be like, all right, see ya. But

25:55

yeah, she just thrived

25:57

off of higher mileage and

25:59

maybe one day I'll be there,

26:01

but for now it's just not

26:03

where I'm at. But it is

26:05

crazy to just see of how

26:07

much running and how much time

26:09

130 miles takes. From

26:12

Instagram, I need to know, was it

26:14

this training trip or before that that

26:16

these nicknames got developed? So there's Baller

26:18

Banny, which is what Dakota called you.

26:20

And then you just called her D -Doc.

26:23

What's the story behind those two? So

26:26

my boyfriend, Drew, I

26:28

feel like he's notorious for

26:30

giving everyone a nickname. And

26:32

so I think it was

26:34

him for both of them

26:37

that started several years ago

26:39

that That those started

26:41

I'm pretty sure but maybe it

26:43

was Dakota that came up with I

26:45

couldn't even tell you where they

26:47

came from but they've just been Drone

26:49

back and forth for the last

26:51

couple years Love it. I think more

26:53

people should start using them when they

26:55

refer to both. It's actually my

26:57

birth name. So really? Yeah,

26:59

baller banny. It's my

27:02

birth name All right, let's get

27:04

into the actual Boston Marathon

27:06

and how it all unfolded You

27:08

get to Hopkins in or

27:10

even just in the days leading

27:12

up to it from your

27:14

Instagram recap. You described it as

27:16

a lot of uncertainty leading into

27:18

the race. Morning of like,

27:20

how do you quell that and like kind of

27:22

taper that down knowing that it's like, all

27:24

right, it's finally here. Thankfully, I

27:26

didn't have too many nerves. Like once

27:28

we got to Boston, I

27:30

think the older I get,

27:33

the better I am about. delaying

27:35

the nerves until race morning

27:37

so I definitely had that

27:39

sort of nervous energy race morning

27:41

but it was more excitement

27:43

which that that kind of

27:45

nervous is the best I

27:47

would say and yeah I how

27:50

as far as how I quelled

27:52

the nerves I guess

27:54

just trying to take

27:57

each day leading up to Boston one

27:59

day at a time. I

28:01

didn't have too many crazy media

28:03

appearances. I had a couple, but I

28:05

was able to get some good

28:07

downtime as well. And got to see

28:09

family hang out with my boyfriend,

28:11

Drew. It was pretty low

28:13

key. So thankfully, my nerves

28:16

weren't too crazy this time. When

28:19

you quoted, I guess, what Dakota shared with you

28:21

where it all comes together right when it

28:23

needs to. Was that, you

28:25

know, in the build up? Pre -race, when did she

28:27

share that with you? That

28:29

was a while ago when I was

28:31

probably just a little bit down

28:33

about where my fitness was. I

28:36

can't remember if she told me

28:38

in practice or when, but it

28:40

was a while ago, probably even

28:42

around half -champs or before, sometime

28:44

in February, and when you

28:46

hear advice like that. In

28:48

the moment, you're like, you don't

28:50

understand, though. I don't feel

28:52

good. It's not going to come together

28:55

at the right time. But then,

28:57

of course, she was right, and it

28:59

did come together at the right time. But

29:01

when I'm in the thick of it,

29:03

it's hard to imagine it coming together at

29:05

the right time. Maybe didn't want to

29:07

hear it at the time, but she was

29:09

right. What's your

29:11

stress coping mechanism in

29:13

that period? Because it's also...

29:15

really cool to hear that like you

29:17

share that with Dakota, who's like, you

29:20

know, yes, a training partner and teammate,

29:22

but also one of your toughest competitors

29:24

come race day and like it's okay

29:26

to kind of have that peel back

29:28

that human side, you know, to another

29:30

person so that they can help you

29:32

in the process, especially when they're so

29:34

accomplished as well. Both Dakota

29:36

and I, we've gone through so

29:38

many admin flows through our

29:41

career that when, you know, one

29:43

of us is sort of

29:45

you know not quite hitting our

29:47

stride it's easy easy to give

29:49

that advice of oh remember when

29:51

you were not fit and then

29:53

you got fit and you know

29:56

just reminding that other person

29:58

that you know things will click

30:00

eventually I think that's

30:02

really helpful when Yeah,

30:04

like one person is really fit one

30:06

person is not really fit I think

30:09

we're able to sort of help help

30:11

each other along and remind one another

30:13

that you know, it will come along

30:15

eventually So as the race

30:17

gets going early on

30:19

I guess like it it's it

30:21

felt like there was nothing really happening

30:23

in the kind of opening miles

30:26

and That's been fairly typical for a

30:28

lot of these world marathon majors,

30:30

especially on the women's side, where it

30:32

comes down to the final 5k,

30:34

where the big moves are made, or

30:37

just even before that, when the

30:39

pack splinters. But what are you

30:41

telling yourself in those opening miles

30:43

as it looked fairly crowded around

30:45

you? Yeah, the first mile

30:48

we went out relatively slow

30:50

and that was fully what I

30:52

was expecting with Boston. I

30:54

feel like it always goes out

30:56

pretty tactical, not always, but

30:58

a lot of the time. So

31:00

I was sort of in the

31:02

mindset of just settling, you

31:05

know, this is the time to

31:07

sort of doze off and just

31:09

zone out and maybe daydream about

31:11

the finish line. But

31:13

then I think it was

31:15

even mild too. We started to

31:17

pick up the pace and

31:19

an initial sort of surge in

31:21

pace was injected by the front

31:23

group and just gonna go

31:25

with it at that point, but I was a little

31:27

surprised. It was that I think it was mild two

31:29

or three. It was pretty early. And

31:31

I was in the middle of my,

31:33

okay, I'm gonna just zone out for

31:36

a little bit. And then I was

31:38

like, oh, I guess I'm not gonna

31:40

zone out for a little bit. I

31:42

need to focus and try to actually

31:44

stay with the pack. The initial move

31:46

was made. And I think we dropped

31:48

it down to 520 or 530. And

31:50

from there, it just got

31:52

faster, like 510, I

31:55

think we were even close to a

31:57

five flat at one point. My watch is

31:59

probably slightly off, but I remember

32:01

just feeling good enough to

32:03

know that it was okay

32:05

that I could go with

32:07

it for a little bit.

32:10

After a couple really fast

32:12

miles, I ended up

32:14

falling off that front pack

32:16

and sort of was

32:18

in no man's land. So

32:21

I just sort of held

32:23

my own pace for a

32:25

while and eventually I actually

32:27

saw the chase pack of

32:29

the front group sort of

32:32

I noticed either I was getting faster

32:34

or they were getting slower. We

32:37

kind of met in the middle.

32:39

So I was able to reattach

32:41

to that chase pack. Eventually, I can't

32:43

remember which mile that was at.

32:45

That was super helpful because being

32:47

in No Man's Land for a whole

32:50

marathon is just brutal. I've done

32:52

that and it's just not fun.

32:54

So I was really grateful to reattach

32:56

to that chase pack and just

32:58

tried to... Hang in there with

33:00

them and stay as consistent as possible

33:02

until those those hills came along

33:04

Yeah, because I think it was

33:06

like even by 10k if people

33:08

looked around in like the lead pack

33:11

You were the only American that

33:13

was left Were you surprised by

33:15

that like to look around and say

33:17

wait hold on where's you know

33:19

Kira where's Emma especially you kind

33:21

of like over the last couple months

33:23

like there's just so much buzz

33:25

about like all right like we're

33:27

gonna try and get an American on

33:30

the podium and run fast and

33:32

I think you look around and

33:34

you're like you're the only one. I

33:36

was actually surprised I kind of

33:38

was just thinking you know I'm

33:40

gonna go with the pace But

33:42

I'm gonna try to just not look

33:44

at my watch as long as

33:47

I don't feel like I'm, you

33:49

know, gassing myself and really digging myself

33:51

in a hole for later in

33:53

the race. I'm not gonna focus

33:55

on the pace, but maybe the other

33:57

Americans were just a little concerned

33:59

with the pace that was going

34:01

out and sustaining it. But I was

34:03

happy that I went with the

34:05

move even though I

34:07

couldn't sustain that for the full race.

34:10

I was just happy to be closer

34:12

to that pack to be able to

34:14

close it a little easier. I think

34:16

if I had been a little more

34:18

conservative, maybe it would have

34:20

seemed like a more daunting task

34:22

to try to close that gap.

34:25

And thankfully I was able to

34:27

come off of those pretty fast

34:29

smiles relatively okay. But I

34:31

was super surprised not to see

34:33

any other Americans up front and

34:35

then I just figured I was

34:38

up there. And then when Jess, of

34:40

course, she was just like the best

34:42

closer in a race ever. When Jess passed

34:44

me with like a mile or two

34:46

to go, I was like,

34:49

oh, it's Jess. And then my thought

34:51

was, how many other Americans are just

34:53

going to come barreling past me? But

34:55

it was just Jess, thankfully. Along

34:58

the course, I feel like Boston's one

35:00

of those where it's like, if you're

35:03

an American, like the crowd. you have

35:05

them in in your favor like what

35:07

was that like I guess to hear

35:09

people calling your name along the course

35:11

and and be essentially like a home

35:13

crowd favorite here. It was super cool

35:15

to have so many cheers and yeah

35:17

there were the course was loud for.

35:20

99 % of it I would

35:22

say which was awesome. And yeah,

35:24

I feel like there's just

35:26

so many different waves of excitement.

35:28

I remember from the first

35:30

time running Boston that Wellesley College

35:32

was just insane and that

35:34

was very much true for this

35:36

year as well. I think

35:38

it's crazy every year and it's

35:40

hard not to smile at

35:42

that part of the course and

35:44

just get almost emotional with

35:46

how like how loud it

35:48

is and how excited everyone is

35:50

to see the racers coming by.

35:52

So definitely had to try to

35:55

chill at Wellesley College, but there

35:57

were several other points in the

35:59

race too where I heard go

36:01

frisbee, go any, and it just

36:03

means so much. And I feel

36:05

like it helps sort of give

36:07

me that extra boost rate when

36:09

I need it, especially on the

36:11

hills when people are cheering so

36:13

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looking at the photo that you

39:51

posted from heartbreak hill describe I

39:53

guess like is that a smile

39:55

is it is it just like

39:57

uh you're in total pain like

39:59

what's going through your mind there

40:01

I was trying to smile every

40:03

once in a while as you

40:05

know my teammate dakota she always

40:07

smiles like the whole race and

40:09

it does help mentally I think

40:11

to you know, remember to smile,

40:13

I think it's sort of a

40:15

mind -body trick of, oh,

40:17

I feel fine, I'm smiling. I

40:20

did not feel fine, but I was trying

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to be like, all right, let's just smile for

40:24

a little bit and see if my body

40:26

cooperates. It probably looks more like a grimace, because

40:28

I was also in a lot of pain,

40:30

but every once in a while I'd be like,

40:32

all right, let's smile for a little bit

40:34

and see if it tricks my body. Let's

40:37

go through, I guess, like, so the

40:39

footwear choice, you went with the Fast

40:41

R3s. We talked about this on a

40:43

panel in the days leading up to

40:45

it. But for the podcast listeners here,

40:47

I guess like, can you share sort

40:49

of like, you know, there was so

40:52

much buzz around them in the days

40:54

leading up to it. You know, the

40:56

study by UMass came out and you'd

40:58

been testing them and wearing them in

41:00

the buildup for this one. What did

41:02

you really like about the shoes? Pretty

41:04

much since the first workout, I was

41:06

kind of like, oh. These are good.

41:09

You kind of just know immediately. And

41:12

then once I had a couple

41:14

really good workouts in them, especially the

41:16

long ones, are just such a

41:18

great test for how you'll feel at

41:20

the end of a marathon. I

41:22

felt just as good at the

41:24

end of a workout in the shoes

41:26

that I did at the beginning

41:28

of the workout, which is a great

41:31

sign for the marathon. Because as

41:33

soon as mile 20 hits and your

41:35

legs start to break down, you

41:37

don't want to be thinking about how

41:39

your shoes feel. And

41:41

so that was definitely the

41:43

case for these shoes. And

41:45

there's so much lighter than

41:47

the previous Puma Shoes and

41:49

I think other things on

41:51

the market too. Yeah, I

41:53

just felt so good throughout

41:55

the race in them and

41:57

Yeah, I just didn't really

41:59

think about them, which is

42:01

awesome. No sort of like

42:04

hot spot on the foot

42:06

super bouncy Yeah, it just

42:08

overall it feels like such

42:10

a massive jump in how

42:12

good the shoes feel. I

42:14

love the shoes before. I

42:16

used to race in the

42:18

Puma Deviate Elite 3s, and

42:20

those are also amazing. But

42:23

these, I feel like, are my new

42:25

favorites. So I'm very excited about the

42:27

improvements that were made. I also noticed

42:29

one arm sleeve. Or did you start

42:32

with two? I did start

42:34

with two. So I

42:36

started with two arm sleeves and

42:38

then gloves because it was kind

42:40

of chilly but not crazy. But

42:42

I took off the gloves pretty

42:44

quickly and then I wanted to take

42:46

off my arm sleeves. But

42:49

one side I was wearing my

42:51

watch and sometimes it's just such

42:53

a pain to try to get

42:55

an arm sleeve off over the

42:57

watch and I didn't want to

42:59

risk like unstrapping the

43:01

watch or lapping it by accident or

43:03

something like that. Yeah, I was like,

43:05

it's not I'm not dying of heat.

43:07

So I'm just going to keep this

43:09

one on. But some people commented that

43:11

I was trying to be like a

43:13

basketball. Yeah, that was my first thought,

43:16

too, when I saw it. I

43:18

was not trying to do that. I was

43:20

just I didn't want to risk losing the

43:22

watch as you make it through, you know,

43:24

the hills. I mean, what are you mentally

43:26

telling yourself when, you know, until. kind

43:28

of Jess and the other pack

43:30

are behind you. But you run in

43:32

solo for a lot of it.

43:34

Like, how are you mentally staying engaged

43:36

in the race? Yeah, I was

43:38

trying to just sort of I talked

43:40

to myself in my head a

43:42

lot in races. So I was trying

43:44

to do that, trying to focus

43:46

on the back of the person's head

43:48

that was maybe 20 meters in

43:51

front of me and trying to reel

43:53

them in, trying to tell myself

43:55

to focus on little things, like just

43:57

make sure you have good form.

43:59

When I get really tired, I start

44:01

to tilt my head for some

44:03

reason, so Annie, keep your

44:05

head straight. Yeah,

44:07

just trying to talk myself through

44:09

each mile, I think that really

44:11

helps. Yeah, just trying to remain

44:13

hopeful when I was sort of

44:15

in that no man's land because

44:17

things can change so quickly. So

44:19

one of the things your relatives,

44:21

I guess, asked you was just

44:24

sort of you had no idea

44:26

what place you're in. Especially because

44:28

I guess once that lead pack

44:30

splintered, there was probably no way

44:32

of telling. So you had no

44:34

concept, really. Not really. I mean,

44:36

because once the lead pack splintered,

44:38

I wasn't really paying attention to

44:40

how many people went with for

44:42

some. I don't know why. I

44:44

just wasn't paying attention to that.

44:46

But I knew it was a

44:49

big group relatively, but I

44:51

wasn't counting or anything. And then

44:53

when that chase pack came back, I

44:55

was like, oh, well, this is

44:57

the chase pack. Maybe there's only, you

44:59

know, two people in that front

45:01

pack. I just really didn't know. And

45:04

so at the end, I figured

45:06

I was in top 10, but I

45:08

really didn't know where within that.

45:10

At any point, did you look down

45:12

at your watch or see any

45:14

clock where you knew kind of the

45:17

pace and like the finishing time

45:19

that you were projected at because coming

45:21

into this one of course like

45:23

your PR was 226 from your debut

45:25

in 2021 and that had held

45:27

up. Did you realize at some point

45:29

like oh yeah I'm on PR

45:31

pace? The first half for me was

45:33

the fastest I've ever gone out

45:35

in a marathon and the 10k mark

45:38

was fast the 15 K mark

45:40

I was like oh that's close to

45:42

my 15k PR and then the

45:44

10 mile mark came and I was

45:46

like oh that's not crazy far

45:48

off of the 10 mile race I

45:50

did a couple weeks ago and

45:52

then the half marathon came and I

45:54

was like oh that it was

45:56

like a 69 something so that was

45:59

definitely fast but you know the

46:01

first half of the course is relatively

46:03

downhill so I knew my

46:05

odds of keeping that pace

46:07

were probably slim. For me,

46:09

the second half, it was more just

46:11

about trying to maintain or not, you

46:13

know, completely go backwards. And

46:16

so I did have a feeling

46:18

that not that you want to

46:20

bank time in a marathon, but

46:22

I knew that I still felt

46:24

good when the hills hit at,

46:26

you know, 16 or 17, that

46:28

I would probably have a Faster

46:30

time anything can happen in the

46:32

marathon. So you don't want to

46:34

Don't I I didn't want to

46:36

get ahead of myself But I

46:38

knew that if I continued to

46:40

feel as strong as I did

46:43

then I would probably have a

46:45

good time before we get to

46:47

Turning onto boils in what's the

46:49

hardest part of kind of that

46:51

stretch between heartbreak hill and then

46:53

before the final turn on to

46:55

the finish line So I know

46:57

there's three major hills, but I

46:59

remember from the last time

47:01

doing Boston, that it

47:03

felt like people had lied to me

47:05

and that there was like five hills. And

47:08

I would say it's not all

47:10

smooth sailing after that final heartbreak

47:12

hill. There's definitely some little hills

47:14

in there that at that point

47:16

in the race affect you. And

47:18

so I was telling myself Annie,

47:20

there's ten hills you have to

47:22

get through. And so

47:24

after, you know, three hills, it's like

47:26

there's there's seven more hills you have

47:28

to get through. So it was a

47:31

nice surprise if there wasn't actually seven

47:33

hills. I was just playing all sorts

47:35

of mental tricks. And then

47:37

actually in that section, there

47:39

was a camera motorcycle that

47:41

was following me for a

47:44

little bit. So. I was

47:46

extra focused on okay good

47:48

form try to catch the

47:50

person in front of you

47:52

all those things and at

47:55

one point when Jess did

47:57

pass me I think it

47:59

was one or two to

48:01

go. The camera motorcycle stayed

48:03

on me, and I was starting to

48:06

get annoyed because I was like, I

48:08

just want some alone time here. I'm

48:10

in so much pain. I don't

48:12

want the camera directly on me. Yeah,

48:14

I was just trying to pull out

48:16

all the mental tricks for those last

48:18

miles. And then once you turn on

48:21

Boylston, I was hurting at that point,

48:23

of course, but able to get to

48:25

the finish line and just hoping that

48:27

no one was. within two seconds of

48:29

me. Because I guess we didn't get

48:31

to see much of like the pass

48:33

by Jess or wherever it was like

48:35

on the course like was it I

48:38

want to try and stick with her

48:40

and like or was it just like

48:42

a she went and there was no

48:44

kind of back and forth battle. She

48:46

was barreling past me. I I don't

48:48

know if it was. uh just like

48:51

a move where she's she was telling

48:53

herself just to you know sprint

48:55

by me so it didn't seem like

48:57

i had any hope but it really

48:59

felt like oh she is going i

49:01

i'm not like i did try to

49:03

sort of stick with her for a

49:05

little bit but it was clear that

49:08

she was she was going and i

49:10

i didn't have it in my legs

49:12

anymore to try to make a counter

49:14

move i guess uh callie Bakery

49:16

was about, you know, 20, 50

49:18

meters in front of me. And so

49:21

I was trying to just gauge

49:23

off of her for the longest time

49:25

and try to reel her in.

49:27

And then once, once Jess passed, she

49:29

was, she sort of became that

49:31

target of, you know, don't let her

49:33

get further than this or try

49:35

to reel her in. But kind of

49:37

knew with her pace that I

49:39

wasn't, I wasn't going with, unfortunately. Compared

49:42

to, you know, the finish

49:44

line of Chicago marathon

49:46

where I mean that was like

49:48

preservation of just like let's just

49:50

make it to the finish line

49:52

with the hamstring intact and and

49:55

survive their. Olympic trials

49:57

you finish on on empty. Boston's

50:00

a little bit different because yes

50:02

you're engaged in an actual race but

50:04

that final home stretch like there

50:06

is part of it that. As an

50:08

elite athlete, you can savor in

50:10

and enjoy because it's the loudest part

50:13

of the whole entire course at

50:15

times. How did you enjoy the final

50:17

stretch, even though you're in crazy

50:19

pain? I don't know if I did

50:21

enjoy it much. I mean,

50:23

I forgot how long that

50:25

stretch is. Once you turn,

50:28

you can see the finish line,

50:30

but it was... got to

50:33

be like 600 meters or something.

50:35

It's long and so I

50:37

was in pain it felt like

50:39

I was just trying to

50:41

stay upright because my My quads

50:44

my hamstrings my calves everything

50:46

started to buckle and if I

50:48

if it was 27 miles

50:50

I feel like I would have

50:52

fallen like so it was

50:54

really just me drive stay

50:57

upright. Of course

50:59

the crowds helped carry me there but

51:01

I feel like I was just

51:03

way too focused on staying upright and

51:05

just getting to the finish line

51:08

trying to sort of kick I guess

51:10

but really it was just maintaining

51:12

and not having anyone else pass me

51:14

but I wouldn't say I was

51:16

like soaking it in because I knew

51:18

I had to just get to

51:21

the finish line. It still, at that

51:23

point, wasn't over for me. You're

51:25

like, Chris, nice try romanticizing Boyleson

51:27

Street, but it was not that. It

51:30

was not that for me, at least. So

51:33

after you crossed the finish line,

51:35

it did feel like, I guess, like

51:37

the top American women just kind

51:39

of gathered there waiting for, you know,

51:41

Dez to cross the finish line.

51:43

You guys all. enjoy a moment there.

51:46

What was sort of like that immediate

51:48

feeling once you know the pain

51:50

it's starting to settle in probably after

51:52

crossing the finish line but there's

51:54

just a shared camaraderie right there afterwards

51:56

you know with the top american

51:58

dakota crosses the finish line you get

52:00

to reunite with her but what

52:02

was that like? Yeah it was so

52:04

cool to see all of us

52:06

sort of come across at a not

52:08

the same time but within a

52:11

couple minutes and Yeah, just

52:13

celebrating with my fellow Americans,

52:15

so cool. This was

52:17

such a stacked field on

52:19

the American side and international, but

52:21

it's always fun to race against women

52:24

that I've raced against all the time

52:26

and have gotten to know over the

52:28

years. And yeah,

52:30

with Dez announcing that it

52:32

would be her last Boston and

52:34

then to see her do

52:36

so well was just awesome. Yeah,

52:39

it was just really special at the

52:41

finish line. Very emotional. I feel like I

52:43

always cry at the end of a

52:46

marathon, good tears or bad tears. And these

52:48

were good tears. And yeah,

52:50

it's hard not to get emotional after

52:52

such a hard effort like that. So

52:54

much goes into it leading up to

52:56

it. And then afterwards, the relief that

52:58

it went so well was awesome. My

53:01

final question would be just like, what

53:03

does this do now? I guess for

53:05

we throw around the word confidence a

53:07

lot in this one, but that was

53:09

a key component to making this as

53:11

successful as it was, but it does

53:13

feel like, you know, the trials in

53:15

28, you know, whether or not they

53:17

happen, wherever they happen, whatever the case

53:20

for that may be, like it does

53:22

feel distant. It also feels like there's

53:24

constantly like this turning of the tide when

53:26

it comes to the US women's Marathon

53:28

scene where it's like you can be on

53:31

top but come this fall there might

53:33

be like two more names that kind of

53:35

enter the picture when it comes to

53:37

things so you know where are you kind

53:39

of hoping to take this energy and

53:41

like bottle it up for the next couple

53:43

years maybe as soon as like this

53:45

fall because yeah now I think like there's

53:47

gonna be more attention on you given

53:49

this performance I honestly think I'm just gonna

53:52

keep doing what I'm doing sort of.

53:54

Same mentality. I feel like still,

53:56

ever since the trial, I'm still not

53:58

putting too much pressure on one

54:00

thing. Even if that external pressure is

54:02

there, I feel like I've gotten

54:04

better at sort of tuning that out

54:06

and just trying to focus on

54:08

the things that I can control. And

54:10

so I'm just gonna keep sort

54:12

of chipping away. Don't feel like there's

54:14

any need to reinvent the wheel

54:16

and just sort of, you know, keep

54:18

putting my head down, put in

54:21

the work, and hopefully that leads to

54:23

good results. Even if you

54:25

get faster, like, and wherever you fall

54:27

among, like, the all -time American list, you

54:29

got to hold on to this Minnesota

54:31

distance elite record now, I guess, right?

54:33

I know! Yeah, I feel

54:35

like Dakota and I were constantly sort

54:37

of going back and forth, so we'll

54:39

have to keep raising that bar. Awesome.

54:42

Well, Annie, I appreciate you taking

54:44

the time to recap this year's

54:46

Boston Marathon. An incredible performance. We

54:48

were, you know, in the Puma

54:50

high point on Boylston Street and

54:52

the people inside were just going

54:54

crazy for you just all throughout

54:56

the race. And so congrats and

54:58

looking forward to what the fall

55:00

has in store for you. Thank

55:02

you. I'm excited as well. Thank

55:06

you all for listening to this episode. This

55:08

episode was produced by Jasmine Fair. I love doing

55:10

this for you guys, so please do me

55:12

a favor and leave a 5 -star review on

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Make sure you're subscribed or following on your

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55:35

As always, I love track and field. I'm

55:37

Chris Chavez. See you next time. So

55:48

I can obviously speak to the

55:50

FlightXT working. No blisters, no

55:52

hotspots, felt great during my

55:54

half marathon. What is

55:57

the feeling you hope, you know, the

55:59

consumer gets out of wearing you

56:01

know, the FlightXT or any of the

56:03

products. I think you know, you

56:05

the sort of fundamentals in terms of

56:07

you know, it's to fit well, it's

56:10

got to ensure that you have

56:12

moisture wicking and protection. But I

56:14

think on top of that, one

56:16

of the things that comes to

56:18

mind for me is kind of

56:20

this idea of if you feel

56:23

good, you're gonna perform well. Candidly,

56:26

out of all the aspects of your

56:28

race kit, right? Okay. Shoes are

56:30

going to be up there. Sinklet is

56:32

gonna be up there. There's a

56:34

lot of other things that are kind of

56:36

gonna come above traditionally. And think one of

56:39

the things that I would love to do in

56:41

terms of the direction that we're taking

56:43

Swift is to take socks from kind

56:45

of like a rain category to one

56:47

that you really think about as a

56:49

key part of your kid, whether for

56:51

training or for Try them for yourself,

56:53

City as Mag listeners. Get 15 %

56:55

off your first with the code CITYASMAG

56:57

checkout when you visit Swiftwake .com. You can

56:59

also hit the link in our show

57:01

notes. We'll see you next time.