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Sidious25. Hello

1:29

everybody and welcome to the Sidious Mac podcast.

1:31

I'm Chris Chavez and this is my show

1:33

where I chat with some of the biggest

1:35

names on the track on the roads within

1:37

the coaching ranks and across the running industry.

1:39

Our guests sit down and open up in

1:41

depth to share their experiences, brilliant insights and

1:43

vivid snapshots from their professional and personal accomplishments

1:45

in the sport. Before we hit

1:47

our interview, you know we love giving the listeners

1:49

a shout out when they leave us a review.

1:51

If you want yours to be read, leave us

1:54

a five star review on Apple podcast and let

1:56

us know why you've loved this show. This week's

1:58

review actually comes to us from Apple podcast, Canada,

2:00

our producer, Jasmine Fair

2:03

is in Canada and was able to open

2:05

up Apple podcast read a couple of

2:07

that I don't usually see while I'm here

2:09

in the States. So this one comes

2:11

to us from K fits can. who

2:13

wrote, Future of Sports Media, Sidious Mag is

2:15

hands down one of the best out

2:17

there. Their content across platforms is so

2:20

thoughtful, compelling and well produced and always with

2:22

the human story at the forefront. I've

2:24

been a runner for a long time,

2:26

but Sidious Mag turned me into a real

2:28

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and easy for anyone to follow the sport.

2:32

As a multi -sport athlete, I follow a lot

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can learn a thing or two from Sidious

2:38

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inspire communities. Keep up the great work.

2:43

Many, many, many thanks to K

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-Fits Can for that review. Canadians

2:48

are just the best. If

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you want your reviews to be read, drop

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us a five -star review on Apple Podcasts today.

2:59

My guess for today's episode is

3:01

Clayton Young, because while Connor Manson's 205

3:03

may have stolen the headlines, Clayton

3:05

Young once again proved why he belongs

3:07

in any conversation about the best

3:09

marathoners in America. On a

3:11

competitive day in Boston, he

3:13

ran 207 -04, nearly a

3:15

full -minute personal best to

3:18

finish overall, tying his

3:20

highest ever finish at a World Marathon

3:22

Major. And he did it despite

3:24

a cap cramp at mile 20 and

3:26

on an up and down lead up

3:28

that included some frustrating half marathon results.

3:31

But that's the kind of thing about

3:33

Clayton's success. Quiet consistency,

3:36

big stage composure. in a

3:38

resilience that keeps him right alongside

3:40

the best, including his training partner and

3:42

Olympic teammate, Connor Manns. This Boston

3:44

result marks their fourth straight marathon finishing

3:46

as the top two Americans in

3:48

every field, and every time Clayton Young

3:50

shows up. So in this

3:52

conversation, we get into the Boston marathon

3:54

as it unfolded, what was actually going

3:56

through his head when that mile 20

3:58

move gets made and that cramp hits, and

4:00

why he's so good at staying in

4:02

the mix. So without further ado, here's

4:05

my conversation with Clayton Young. Welcome

4:19

back to the 157th episode

4:21

of the Sidious Mag Podcast.

4:23

We're here with Chris Chavez,

4:26

not only a guy that's broken five minutes in

4:28

the mile this last year, but someone that

4:30

is now writing his book coming into the marathon.

4:33

I don't know what else to say

4:35

from here, but welcome back Chris Chavez

4:37

for your 15th time here on the

4:39

podcast. I already made my pitch to

4:41

you guys. I think maybe about a

4:44

year or so ago that you two

4:46

should have your own podcast. And now

4:48

I feel even stronger about it because

4:50

you've nailed the intros. Sooner or later,

4:52

I'll just have you guys do ad

4:54

reads if they match up with your

4:57

own sponsors. So, no, Clayton

4:59

Young, always a pleasure. Now

5:01

we get to chat. I get to

5:03

chat with the 207 guy. How's that?

5:05

207 guy. Yeah, so close

5:07

so far from 206. Yeah,

5:10

but I'll take 207. I've been wanting to be

5:12

a 207 guy for what? Almost two

5:14

years now. 20704.

5:17

Strong. On Boston's

5:20

course. I saw the video that

5:22

you posted to your Instagram story of

5:24

Ashley trying to go for a little run

5:26

with you the day after, and it

5:28

was not much of a run. It was

5:30

a shuffle. Clearly in pain.

5:32

Then you got your legs moving a

5:34

little bit, but same question I let

5:36

off with Connor. Was this

5:38

the most taxing marathon on your

5:40

body? Yeah, for sure. I

5:42

mean, what you didn't see is the first

5:44

10 seconds of that run is when I

5:47

turned to Ashley and I said, okay, let's

5:49

start. And I, and I pushed start on

5:51

my watch and she, she just kept walking. I

5:53

was so sore. I

5:56

couldn't believe it. Definitely the most

5:58

sore I've been post marathon. I

6:00

think both because of, yeah, the course

6:02

itself. And then I, I kind of

6:04

had some hiccups in the middle the

6:06

race just with my calf and my

6:08

hamstring. So I think I didn't realize

6:10

how bad it was until that next

6:12

morning. And yeah, so

6:14

it took a while. I even cut

6:16

the run short just because it was

6:18

hurting so bad. So definitely the most

6:20

demanding marathon I've ran, which is surprising

6:22

because I've ran some tough ones between

6:25

New York and Paris and some hot

6:27

and humid ones. But yeah, that one

6:29

was tough. I'm following a very

6:31

similar playbook to the Recap podcast

6:33

as Connors and it was great because

6:35

we checked in with each other a couple

6:37

days before the race And so we

6:39

don't need to go over the training. We

6:41

assessed that on our last show We

6:43

did get to see each other at the

6:45

pre -race press conference for a final check

6:47

-in to see you know how you were

6:49

feeling based off of the competitor comments

6:51

and the you know press conference and all

6:53

that stuff but I Guess leading into

6:56

race day what we're sort of the vibes

6:58

telling you about the type of race

7:00

that was you know ahead for you how

7:02

I was feeling was pretty pretty good. I

7:05

did get to the end

7:07

of like essentially Saturday night and

7:09

I remember turning to Ashley

7:11

and being like oh man I'm

7:13

exhausted. I mean I can't

7:15

say that I overdid it because you know her

7:18

and I reflected back on the last couple

7:20

days of of just all of the media and

7:22

the appearances and the meet and greets and

7:24

just everything that I had to do I get

7:26

to do to be honest like They're

7:29

really cool events, and I love that

7:31

kind of stuff. But I was

7:33

socially just drained. I'm not gonna lie.

7:35

I was very, very drained, and I

7:37

was... I'd kind of been watching my

7:39

recovery scores, and then kind of been

7:41

getting lower and lower, to be honest,

7:43

throughout the weekend, and I was kind

7:45

of worried. And so on Sunday, we

7:47

really, like, tried to dial it

7:50

back as much as we could. You know,

7:52

I couldn't change anything about my schedule, but

7:54

I could just... Just turned down

7:56

my emotions my excitement you could say

7:58

and and try to hunker down

8:00

a little bit more and make sure

8:02

that I was You know prioritizing

8:04

nutrition and a nap and and hydration

8:06

so like That was a little

8:08

bit tough going into the race just

8:10

navigating like big appearance and and

8:12

yeah getting to know everybody like Boston

8:14

is such a celebration and I

8:16

don't want to say that I would

8:18

change any of that because I

8:20

had some really cool interactions, but I

8:22

I definitely learned

8:24

quite a bit this weekend on on kind

8:26

of what I need to prepare for

8:28

next time to kind of keep my my

8:30

battery charged you could say going into

8:33

the race but my sentiment going into the

8:35

race itself like on race day like

8:37

I woke up feeling good and I I

8:39

was excited I was excited and I

8:41

wasn't sure how the race would play out

8:43

and it played out a little bit

8:45

differently than we expected like I think the

8:47

you know for those that watch the

8:49

race those that took it out early I

8:51

think was kind of I guess Connor

8:53

is not ever a surprise but to have

8:55

Connor, Pat Tiernan, Rory, and I taking

8:57

out the first smile was kind of a

8:59

unique surprise. But anyway, that was the

9:01

general sentiments going in. I think

9:03

like you going over just sort of

9:05

like the pre -race stuff is funny

9:07

because to paint the picture for the

9:09

listeners, it's like, yeah, you have sponsorship

9:11

obligations to pop over to the expo

9:13

and then maybe go to, you know,

9:15

the ASIC space or that. But at

9:17

the press conference, it was really funny

9:19

because like you're one of the first

9:21

ones in. Last one out. Yeah,

9:23

even I think it was Mary Kate

9:25

Shea who like is the lead athlete

9:28

coordinator was sort of like Kind

9:30

of to cut off a little a couple

9:32

of the interviews was like hey Clayton You

9:34

know you have that appointment and you just

9:36

you know the kind of cue went over

9:38

your head and you're like What appointment? I

9:41

don't have anything after this and it was

9:43

like no I think like for her it's

9:45

like it's important for these athletes You know

9:47

to kind of recharge stay stay ready for

9:49

the race and rest it But you I

9:51

give you so much credit for the amount

9:53

of people you probably talked to the amount

9:55

of you know time that you were on

9:57

your feet It's it's

9:59

a lot and because of the Olympics the

10:01

Olympic trials like that spotlight has never

10:04

been brighter on you guys Yeah, I remember

10:06

that conference with Mary Kate and even

10:08

yeah the press conference It's it's a tricky

10:10

balance and I will say like my

10:12

sponsors were actually really accommodating like a six

10:14

actually didn't have any Asks for me

10:16

all weekend most of them came from the

10:18

Boston Athletic Association But like you said

10:20

Mary Kate like was very accommodating. It's it's

10:23

kind of It's just my

10:25

nature, right? Like I just, you know,

10:27

if someone wants to take a picture

10:29

or say hi and and like I

10:31

can't say no and and I I

10:33

don't want to just say good luck

10:35

on weekend like I want I want

10:37

to connect and Even myself like I

10:39

just if I'm blowing through these relationships

10:41

with people like it just doesn't It

10:44

doesn't sit right with me And so

10:46

I just I try to look everybody

10:48

in the eye and really Really

10:50

pay attention, but that takes a lot

10:52

of energy and it takes a lot of

10:54

time and Like I said, I wouldn't

10:56

change it and some of the interactions that

10:58

I had were absolutely incredible like you

11:00

know I almost felt going into the race

11:02

that I had already Gotten everything that

11:04

I wanted to out of the weekend you

11:06

could say like it was really cool

11:08

moments with just where I was able to

11:11

To inspire people either in the moment

11:13

or before like through the docuseries through sharing

11:15

my story my vulnerability my authenticity yet

11:17

and those are all buzzwords, but it's like

11:19

it I I could finally start to

11:21

see the difference a little bit that I

11:23

had made over the last couple months

11:25

or years of sharing my story and that's

11:27

priceless. This is me also just being

11:29

a content guy analytics thing. It's like you

11:31

see a subscriber number, you see comments,

11:33

but it's just sort of like that's on

11:35

the internet. And I feel

11:37

like because now you've gone

11:39

through three waves of just like

11:41

the YouTube docu -series build up,

11:43

your audience keeps growing, the

11:46

number of people watching it and seeing

11:48

it keeps growing. It's only gonna

11:50

get more and more people. I

11:52

think they'll meet along the way and

11:54

so Particularly with the YouTube series

11:56

like how often was it like that

11:58

you heard from people in the

12:00

streets of Boston being like yeah Clayton

12:02

like I throw you on you

12:04

know when I'm on the treadmill because

12:06

it inspires me or like Hey,

12:08

I'm training for my first marathon because

12:10

I've been watching you like I

12:12

feel like that has to have been

12:14

more than ever. Oh, yeah Oh

12:16

yeah, I mean it's like you can't

12:18

leave a conversation without somebody saying

12:20

I've watched the docu series like that's

12:22

it's kind of what I'm known

12:25

for now and it's just incessant and

12:27

it's really cool like because you

12:29

know I've I've shared this before it

12:31

is a lot of work a

12:33

lot of coordination with you know brands

12:35

and my videographer and my own

12:37

schedule and posting uploading descriptions captions tagging

12:39

like it's it's a lot of

12:41

work and I've gotten a lot better

12:43

at it and a lot quicker

12:45

and it's I cut out I cut

12:47

back, actually, surprisingly. We

12:49

streamlined it really well for Boston towards

12:51

the end. The first couple episodes

12:53

were tough, but we get in a

12:55

really good groove. But it

12:58

still works. And when you have

13:00

those conversations with people, like

13:02

you said, it's all worth it. And I

13:04

think one of the best analogies is you

13:06

take all your subscribers, your followers, across Strava,

13:08

Instagram, YouTube, and you throw them in a

13:10

stadium. And it's like,

13:12

it's true. It's like you'd fill

13:14

a couple stadiums. if

13:16

you could have one moment to talk to

13:19

that many people, like what

13:21

would you say? And I

13:23

don't take that lightly. It's one thing to

13:25

have the numbers, but it's another thing

13:27

to like have the interaction and the engagement.

13:30

And yeah, I just try to keep that as

13:32

positive as I can. And like I said,

13:34

I think we learned some things this weekend. Like

13:36

I think, you know, we didn't really have

13:38

a lot of interaction in Paris because it was

13:40

the Olympics and everything was being covered in

13:43

the Olympics. And then in

13:45

New York it was still kind of early

13:47

stages, but Boston it's like it's like a

13:49

firehose Anywhere I went anywhere I walked You

13:51

know, it's the only weekend of the year

13:53

or like within that quarter mile of the

13:55

Fairmont Copley hotel that I get as much

13:57

attention as I do But it's not

13:59

like I'm sick of it or anything, but

14:01

it Yeah, we we could we could do

14:03

a little better I joke with Allie Feller

14:06

that like that's the weekend where you're an

14:08

A -list celebrity walking around the streets of

14:10

yeah, New York Street and all that

14:12

stuff and so Allie and I are probably

14:14

like B -list celebrities to the athletes like at

14:16

that point because like we hear you

14:18

know from the people that listen to the

14:20

podcast or watch our shows and all that

14:22

kind of stuff probably like the loudest during

14:24

those weekends. It's funny because even after

14:26

the race I was out walking with Ashley

14:28

and I'm almost thinking like maybe I just

14:31

do stuff after the race because there's still

14:33

so many athletes so many people that

14:35

have ran Boston that are around that would

14:37

you know if I say hey Everybody meet

14:39

me afterwards. Let's have it. Let's have the

14:41

Clayton younger. I'll sit on the

14:43

corner of yeah. Yeah, I'll sit on

14:45

the corner of Fairmont Coplay for four

14:47

hours and talk to anybody You know,

14:49

I've considered even maybe that's something we

14:51

do but it's Yeah, and you know

14:53

Not all athletes are We're willing to

14:56

do that. Like a lot of them

14:58

will have cutoff times or be pulled

15:00

away by there Somebody or their agent

15:02

or whatever which I respect I totally

15:04

respect why some athletes need to do

15:06

that but Anyway, it's a

15:08

game. I'm not even a

15:10

game. It's something I'm just Trying

15:12

to work through. All right,

15:14

so let's dive into the actual

15:16

race You sit down with

15:18

coach Istone you get the same

15:20

plan as as Connor where

15:22

it was. What was it? It

15:24

was the four C's coast

15:26

cover Cruise close were the four

15:28

coast cover cruise close Yep, yeah,

15:31

and it was in my meeting with

15:33

coach Istone. I was like, oh, yes, I

15:35

was like C4 like that's got to

15:37

be something like explosive. And he's like, what's

15:39

kind of ironic is that one, I

15:41

don't have a nickname amongst the alumni or

15:43

coach Istone. Like everybody has a nickname

15:45

but me. But one thing that I'm

15:47

known for is actually C4. And

15:49

so I had to remind coach Istone

15:51

what C4 is amongst our team. And it's

15:54

maybe a little bit of an inside

15:56

joke, a little bit of a nuance, but

15:58

it's actually back in the day, Clayton

16:00

was not as articulate. And I still have

16:02

problems with this, but C4

16:04

amongst the BYU team and you

16:06

guys are welcome to to call

16:08

me out on any of this

16:10

anytime But it's actually a classic

16:12

condescending Clayton comment So sometimes I'll

16:15

say things that are condescending and

16:17

a little bit not nice even

16:19

though my intentions are pure like

16:21

all my intentions will be 100

16:23

% okay, but it'll be a

16:25

classic condescending Clayton comment So that's

16:27

the other C4, but for the

16:29

purposes of the race coach. I

16:31

don't changed it to coast cover

16:34

cruise close. That's correct. You got

16:36

it. 1450 for the first

16:38

5k. I don't think

16:40

that's coasting. Did you think so in

16:42

the moment? I

16:44

did feel smooth. I was

16:46

really surprised about what half mile,

16:48

mile in when I looked

16:50

around and I saw that it

16:52

was Pat Tiernan, Rory, Connor

16:55

Manson I and I was like, whoa, this

16:57

is kind of weird because when I didn't

16:59

expect it and then it too it was

17:01

like a breakaway like we had gapped the

17:03

field i was like oh no like this

17:06

is maybe a little much and you know

17:08

i wasn't going to lead the thing um

17:10

but i felt like i'm kind of like

17:12

i'd said in the press conference and leading

17:14

into it like i was there to cover

17:16

moves i was there to cover as many

17:18

moves as i cared throughout the race and

17:20

even like i one of my mantras was

17:23

actually you know in practice i often will

17:25

count to a hundred seconds like that's kind

17:27

of my way to to stay present And

17:29

I said, I will cover any move for

17:31

100 seconds. And so when

17:33

you know, gun goes off and they search

17:35

the front, I'm like, okay, I'm covering

17:37

this move. And I didn't even think about

17:39

the pace, but it definitely felt like

17:42

coasting at that point. Um, I mean, it's

17:44

a steep downhill 5k and first 5k.

17:46

And so no regrets. Maybe could have done

17:48

it a little more conservatively. Going back

17:50

to the actual race, then Connor described it

17:52

as like it was. fairly

17:54

well one watching it everyone strung out

17:56

it was like a line like it

17:58

was a track race for a lot

18:00

of the first 16 miles in that

18:02

first portion of it and there weren't

18:04

a whole lot of big moves to

18:06

cover is that sort of your assessment

18:09

of it too where it's like your

18:11

mind was fairly at ease in the

18:13

first 16 for sure like the pack

18:15

stayed together for most of I think

18:17

when Cece Lema took the lead and

18:19

started pressing there was a little bit

18:21

of like okay We

18:23

got to cover this and But yeah,

18:25

it wasn't until like mile 20 that

18:27

there were really any big moves You

18:29

know Rory took it out a little

18:31

bit and and you know Pat Tiernan,

18:33

but nothing I don't know nothing that

18:35

I felt like stressed about rewatching even

18:37

that first 5k or or I guess

18:39

replaying it in my mind I Part

18:42

of me does wonder if I could

18:44

have maybe sat in the back of

18:46

that pack a little bit more not

18:48

been so anxious to cover some of

18:50

the moves To kind of conserve energy but

18:53

also like sometimes it's better to

18:55

be in that front so you can

18:57

get your bottles easy so you

18:59

can kind of have room to run

19:01

and you know me with tangents

19:03

like I can kind of take tangents

19:05

better at the front or tell

19:07

people to take tangents so yeah not

19:09

a lot of big big surges

19:11

until to mile 20 there was I

19:13

guess a little bit of one

19:15

going down you know at mile 15

19:17

as you go to the bottom

19:19

of essentially the Newton Hills But

19:21

even by that point like and then

19:23

that's what I was kind of looking for

19:25

that move because that's like the classic

19:27

move that somebody that um like Evan Strabet

19:29

like that's like classic downhill move in

19:31

New York classic downhill and move in Boston

19:33

But I had been keeping my eyes

19:35

on Evan Strabet and and like listening and

19:37

he I could tell that he wasn't

19:39

Doing very well. And so I even went

19:41

like a little bit of You know

19:43

the gap opened up going down mile 15.

19:45

I was like, I think we're gonna

19:47

be all right one of the best parts

19:49

of meb describing the 2014 Boston Marathon

19:51

is when he talks about the sounds of

19:53

the competitors. So you've picked

19:55

up and learned, I guess, from

19:58

just the sounds in the pack.

20:01

Aside from the occasional chitchat here or

20:03

there, but what did the

20:05

lead pack sound like? I

20:07

think in general, everyone felt pretty smooth.

20:09

But you can always tell with breathing

20:11

when someone's going to pop off, especially

20:13

when people are grabbing bottles. That's

20:16

a pretty sure sign of, OK, How

20:18

are they, how are they breathing? How are they feeling? Um,

20:21

where I was at throughout most of

20:23

the race, you know, kind of in the

20:25

front of that pack, I didn't get

20:27

to hear the people dropping off as much,

20:30

but there were, yeah, just, it's something

20:32

like you said from Mem's book that I've

20:34

paid attention to that I should check

20:36

on form or, you know, people's responsiveness to

20:38

moves. And according to your Strava recap, you

20:41

know, felt good through halfway, fought demons

20:43

thereafter, defined demons. Yeah, I almost wish

20:45

that I had elaborated a little bit

20:47

more on Strava. It was just like

20:49

a quick two -minute, you know, recap

20:51

while I was lying on the massage

20:53

table post -race. But you've got a docu

20:55

-series that'll cover it. Yeah, I know

20:57

it'll come. And even I, I have

20:59

struggled honestly the last couple of days

21:01

just to try to process this race,

21:03

to be honest. And yeah, to know

21:05

how to recap this the right way.

21:07

You know, there's been a lot of

21:09

highs and lows, but yeah, I guess

21:11

the demon section mid -race or a little

21:13

bit thereafter is You

21:15

know, I talked about it briefly in some

21:17

of the post race interviews, but That pack

21:19

was pretty big and there were a lot

21:21

of good people in that pack and we

21:23

were going fast We were we were clipping

21:25

along pretty well and it can just be

21:28

really daunting to be in the middle of

21:30

that pack and think man There's 15 20

21:32

guys here. How in the world am I

21:34

gonna pull this off? Like how am I

21:36

gonna? Continue to cover moves

21:38

How am I gonna continue to be ready for

21:40

like the Newton Hills? Like there's just a lot

21:42

of doubt that can come, especially in the middle

21:44

of that race, when the pack is so big.

21:47

And especially when arguably the hardest part of

21:49

the race is still coming. And

21:51

so those are kind of the demons that

21:53

I was fighting is like, okay, how can

21:55

I stay present? How can I stay relaxed?

21:57

How can I not worry about the future

21:59

moves, but be ready for the moves that

22:01

are happening here now and kind of conserve

22:04

energy so that I'm ready to cover those

22:06

moves? I think that's really where it, you

22:08

know. it gets worrisome. But like one of

22:10

the nice things is, you know, every bottle

22:12

that I grabbed actually had written a note,

22:14

right? And we were pretty intentional about, you

22:16

know, some of the things that I write

22:18

on my bottles. And so those are those

22:20

were one of the things that I did

22:23

to kind of stay present. But yeah, the

22:25

demon of a pack of 15 or 20,

22:27

that's it. That's pretty much it. And like,

22:29

am I going to make it? Sox,

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and enjoy the spring marathon sale. What

23:57

were some that you think nailed it in

23:59

terms of just like I needed that right

24:01

at that moment? The first one

24:03

that comes to my mind actually

24:05

before the Atlanta half where I didn't

24:07

race really well, I was kind of

24:10

thinking of a specific mental cue for

24:12

that race because I like to be

24:14

specific. I like to be unique. I

24:16

like to unique to me. I don't

24:18

like to use the same ones all

24:20

the time, right? Like something that resonates

24:22

for that race. One of them

24:24

that I chose for the Atlanta half was

24:26

a hymn that we actually sing in a church.

24:30

And it's how firm a foundation is

24:32

the title of the hymn. And

24:34

the verse that I like, it

24:36

says, fear not, I am with thee,

24:38

O be not dismayed, for I

24:40

am thy God, and will still

24:42

give thee aid. I'll help thee,

24:44

I'll strengthen thee, I'll cause thee

24:47

to stand upheld by my righteous, upheld

24:49

by my righteous, upheld by my

24:51

righteous omnipotent hand. Super powerful verse just

24:53

fear not fear not time with

24:55

the OB not dismayed for I am

24:57

thy God and will still give

24:59

the aid and you know, I try

25:01

not to Be too religious with

25:04

what I share, you know with the

25:06

running world But yeah, I believe

25:08

in that and so when you're in

25:10

the middle of a race and

25:12

it gets really tough I you know,

25:14

what we'd written on my bottle

25:16

was fear not I'm with the And

25:18

once you start the phrase, you're

25:20

going to finish it, right? And so

25:23

those middle miles, I was just

25:25

thinking of that song over and over

25:27

and over and over again. And

25:30

to be honest, when I used that

25:32

in the Atlanta half, I got to the

25:34

end of the race and I was

25:36

like, where were you? If you're

25:38

not, I'm with you. You'll be not

25:40

dismayed. Where were you, God? I don't want

25:42

to mock and I don't want to

25:44

say he wasn't there, but I was a

25:46

little bit like. Kind of

25:48

a little bit of trial faith to be

25:50

honest and so to then use that

25:52

once again in Boston and to kind of

25:54

have this moment of The middle of

25:56

the race when I'm fighting the demons and

25:59

I get this bottle and it says

26:01

fear not I'm with thee and it really

26:03

got me through that that middle section

26:05

of Boston and Yeah, that's that's one of

26:07

them one of many I guess like

26:09

this is a interesting question that we kind

26:11

of like Goes into a little bit

26:13

more of just like you know the religious

26:15

side of you know your faith when

26:17

it comes to Applying it to your own

26:19

profession as a professional runner. It's like

26:21

how much do you and Connor actually kind

26:23

of talk about faith when it comes

26:25

in training everyone kind of on our side

26:27

of the sport as pundits and as

26:29

fans want to know just like oh How

26:31

much are you guys talking about training

26:33

and like competitors and all that stuff? But

26:36

with both of you being so rooted

26:38

in your faith And it being

26:40

a major part of your development

26:42

at BYU, are there

26:44

moments like that that we don't really know

26:46

of as fans from time to time that

26:48

it's like, actually, you know what, like what

26:50

really got Connor and I through, you know, this

26:53

rough patch of a race or

26:55

that particular workout was, you know, a

26:57

discussion of faith? For sure. Training

26:59

is probably the number one thing we talked

27:01

about. But then, yeah, faith

27:03

is probably the second most thing and

27:05

we relate on that level. And we

27:07

both have had ups and downs in

27:09

life and in running. And

27:11

you have the eternal perspective,

27:14

I guess, that our faith has

27:16

given us, has gotten through

27:18

those moments. And we can be

27:20

vulnerable and open about where

27:22

our faith stands on these runs

27:24

and these conversations that we

27:26

have day in and day out.

27:28

It's not perfect, right? And

27:30

we struggle. And we struggle not

27:32

only in training and in

27:34

workouts and in races, but we

27:36

struggle. in life and

27:38

in our relationships with God and

27:40

and our Savior Jesus Christ

27:42

and just like trying to strengthen

27:44

that and and where does

27:46

our faith lie and so And

27:48

sometimes they're very interrelated right

27:50

kind of like I just shared

27:52

and so it is really

27:54

nice to just have just a

27:56

very open and honest dialogue

27:58

with Conor and you know He

28:00

I will say this like

28:02

he's not only a phenomenal runner,

28:04

but he is a God -fearing

28:06

man that is incredibly faithful

28:08

Yeah, his obedience to the gospel

28:10

of Jesus Christ is just

28:12

how obedient he is to the,

28:15

I guess you could say the

28:17

laws and principles of distance running,

28:19

right? Like he's as meticulous in

28:21

his worship and his relationship with

28:24

God and Jesus Christ as he

28:26

is with running and even more

28:28

so. And he's a really good

28:30

example to me in that. Like

28:32

I said, I think that eternal

28:34

perspective helps both of us and

28:36

it keeps us grounded. And even

28:39

beyond that, just being good people,

28:41

right? We just try

28:43

to be representatives of being good

28:45

people like Jesus Christ was. And

28:47

I think that helps us in

28:49

this space and in our relationships

28:51

with competitors. So I'm very careful

28:53

about that. I don't want

28:55

to shove this on anybody, but

28:57

it definitely is a big integral part

28:59

of our lives and who we

29:02

are and how we train. how we

29:04

process training and emotions and races

29:06

even and our relationship with others in

29:08

the sport. I appreciate

29:10

you sharing all of that, Clayton,

29:12

because we try and paint this

29:15

portrait of you as an athlete

29:17

and just super accomplished, but it

29:19

is important to also peel back

29:21

and show kind of what makes

29:23

you, you know, really tick as

29:25

a person. And so I, you

29:28

know, there's always space, you know,

29:30

I think on the podcast or whatever

29:32

it might be to, you know,

29:34

really get that glimpse into your life.

29:36

But I will say one thing

29:38

that I think would be really fascinating,

29:41

you know, probably one of the biggest comments

29:43

that people make about Connor and I or

29:45

even on the docu series or in our

29:47

interviews or even our Stravas is like, OK,

29:49

how does Clayton deal? with training with

29:52

Connor and how does Connor deal with

29:54

training with Clayton, right? It's a really

29:56

tricky balance, right? Because we're both very

29:58

competitive. We're both, yeah, we

30:00

both want to be the best

30:02

and there's can be a lot of

30:04

comparison between us, right? And, you

30:06

know, sometimes I'm getting beat up in

30:08

practice and very few times with

30:10

Connor will sometimes get beat up in

30:12

practice and it's this constant comparison

30:14

game, right? And it's just

30:17

the natural man. It's this pride. It's this

30:19

comparison. That's really, really tough to deal with

30:21

in any relationship. And, you know, the number

30:23

one thing that's gotten, you know, both Connor

30:25

and I through this, to be honest, has

30:27

just been, um, yeah, the gospel,

30:29

to be honest, like this, this,

30:31

this sense of, um, Connor can

30:33

have success and I can have success too.

30:35

We're both on our different paths, um, and,

30:37

and to races and both in our different

30:39

paths to life. And like there are strengths

30:41

that he has, there's strengths that I have.

30:43

And that's how I manage it. to be

30:46

honest. You know, one of

30:48

my favorite talks by, you could call

30:50

him a pastor or a teacher

30:52

of ours, is

30:54

a BYU speech that's

30:56

called wrestling with

30:58

comparisons. And if anybody's

31:00

wrestling with comparisons in their training relationships or

31:02

in running or in life, like that's

31:05

something that's really helped me. And so I

31:07

guess that's probably the most applicable to

31:09

the listeners out there about why this is

31:11

so important to me. and how I've

31:13

been able to manage it because it's not

31:15

easy, but it's it's definitely made Connor

31:17

and I the best athletes we can be

31:19

and and we're better because of it. Speaking

31:22

of things people were reading before

31:24

this race, Connor brought up like that

31:26

book about just sort of like

31:28

that sports psych book that he was

31:30

reading. Did you also read it,

31:32

I guess, beforehand? I assume he's

31:34

referring to The Fearless Mind. Yeah.

31:36

Is that it? Okay. Yeah. So The

31:38

Fearless Mind is a book by

31:40

Dr. Craig Manning. In

31:43

fact, if anybody reads that book

31:45

or knows him, you'll probably just be

31:47

like, oh, this is Clayton verbatim

31:49

because it's like what I often will

31:52

pull from when I'm going through

31:54

the mental side of the docu -series

31:56

or anything. Dr. Craig Manning

31:58

is a famous sports psychologist that worked at

32:00

BYU for a long period of time

32:02

and then now works for the Milwaukee Bucks

32:04

and as an NBA sports psychologist and

32:06

he's phenomenal and he wrote the book The

32:08

Fearless Mind and it's not. It was

32:10

a book you wrote early on. It's not

32:12

super like polished or perfect, but it's

32:14

like the principles in there are fantastic. And

32:17

so we we often are always quoting

32:19

or talking about the fearless mind as

32:21

we get ready for these races. That's

32:25

now two endorsements for it.

32:27

And if Dr. Craig Manning is

32:29

listening to this and we'll

32:31

take a cut of his New

32:33

York Times bestselling status after

32:35

this this podcast just leads to

32:37

Amazon scale sales skyrocketing. But

32:39

yeah. No, it's interesting that you

32:41

guys have done all of this work both

32:43

in the physical preparation for, you know, the

32:45

race, but then also just like the mental

32:47

side of things. And I feel like so

32:50

much of that got tested. Then, you know,

32:52

kind of going back to the race at

32:54

mile 20, right? Like you guys are thinking, all

32:57

right, 21 ish is maybe

32:59

where Evan's Tibet's going to

33:01

start rolling. And John career

33:03

accelerates the plans a little bit and says that

33:05

20 is when I'm going to get going. And

33:08

I was watching this part of the

33:10

race so closely because Conner had made

33:12

a big deal about, you know, the

33:14

water, the water station after 25K and

33:16

wherever it is that, you know, Chabette

33:18

loves to really surge. And

33:20

I'm waiting for it, waiting for it.

33:22

And when this move by career happens, it

33:24

is so obvious that this was it.

33:26

This was the blow. Conner

33:29

covers it and kind of, you know, does

33:32

a little bit of work to get himself in the right position.

33:35

And in it. I could see

33:37

that you have such a small

33:39

amount of time to decide if

33:41

you're gonna respond to it too. And

33:44

I could tell you said, yes, I'm gonna

33:46

go for it. Connor gave a

33:48

quick look over and I was like, I choose

33:50

to believe that that was him, someone

33:53

saying Clayton, come with. And

33:57

it happens and

33:59

you're trying. and

34:01

it just doesn't take. Talk to

34:04

me about that moment because it was

34:06

sort of the make or break

34:08

part of this race. Yeah,

34:10

this goes, like I said, I'm still processing this

34:12

race in that moment over and over again and

34:14

just, yeah, you're spot on, right? The move

34:16

was made, I saw the move, I was covering

34:18

the move, I started counting to

34:20

100 seconds, right? As

34:23

I said, I'd cover any move for

34:25

100 seconds and I started counting and

34:27

I got halfway through 100 more or

34:29

less and my

34:31

right calf just bang just bang

34:33

like no signs of it whatsoever before

34:35

then but it just cramped just

34:37

super fast and even already in that

34:39

in the middle of counting I

34:41

was already like am I gonna be

34:43

able to cover this or not

34:45

so I'm already like second guessing and

34:47

you know we're we're at the

34:50

start of heartbreak or right halfway up

34:52

it when this is happening and

34:54

it's already really tough and and I

34:56

it's like the calf made this

34:58

decision for me it was like no

35:00

I because immediately when it

35:02

happened I first flashed to Deslendon's book

35:04

and in Deslendon's book she talks about

35:06

her calf cramp on the final stretch

35:08

and she cramps right calf left calf

35:10

and then she crosses the line but

35:12

she loses the race uh takes second

35:14

and you know this is happening at

35:16

mile 20 and I'm thinking like it

35:18

was sudden enough and it was sharp

35:20

enough that I was like I don't

35:22

know it went from am I covering

35:24

this move to I don't know if

35:26

I'm gonna finish this race based off

35:28

of how this feels And so I

35:31

immediately pumped the brakes like I made

35:33

it if I was like, okay, I

35:35

got to let him go like if

35:37

I like If I'm thinking I can't

35:39

make it to the finish even though

35:41

I told myself I was gonna cover

35:43

every move for 100 seconds But like

35:45

the calf it was like no, I

35:47

gotta I gotta I gotta figure this

35:49

out. And so I Immediately pumped the

35:51

brakes packed here and then flies by

35:53

me and I'm like dang it. Okay,

35:55

and then Rory I think right as

35:57

I crest heartbreak hill Rory catches me

35:59

and And I was like, oh gosh

36:01

I gotta cover Rory because there was

36:03

a there was a moment I guess

36:05

when Connor looks back and I'm trying

36:07

to close the gap that I realized

36:09

it's Connor it's that pack of East

36:12

Africans and then it's me and you

36:14

know there's kind of a race within

36:16

the race sometimes where it's like I

36:18

want to beat all the North American

36:20

guys right like I want to like

36:22

I can give the nod to Connor

36:24

yes I want to beat Connor and

36:26

I like I'm covering the move to

36:28

do so if I have the shot

36:31

But if Kana is going to beat

36:33

me, nobody else is. Like, I'm going

36:35

to be the next guy from North

36:37

America. And so I was just thinking

36:39

about that. And I... Anyway, so when

36:41

Rory comes and catches me at the

36:43

top of Heartbreak, I'm like, oh gosh,

36:45

I got to cover this move. And

36:48

I decide, you know, that's when we start going downhill.

36:50

And my calf is starting to loosen a little bit, and I

36:52

decide to cover the move. But as I cover

36:54

the move with Rory, I realize my calf is starting to loosen. I'm

36:56

like, okay, that's a good sign. I think I'm going to make it

36:59

to the finish. running behind

37:01

Rory, I was like, this is

37:03

too smooth. Like this is

37:05

like cardiovascularly, I still felt fine.

37:08

And I was, I

37:10

was like, man, I, I got to

37:12

go. I got to go and luckily my

37:14

calf had calmed down enough. So was like, okay, I'm going

37:16

to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to

37:18

go. So I swung out wide and I

37:20

like just searched as hard as I could to blow

37:22

away from Rory. And I,

37:25

and this is through Cleveland circle and

37:27

I book it through Cleveland circle and

37:29

I'm feeling pretty good. And

37:31

Pat Tiernan is starting to come back, and I'm

37:33

starting to see Evans Trebek come back, and I'm

37:35

starting to see, is it Mattias or? Danny

37:38

Matejko? Matejko. I'm

37:40

starting to see Matejko come back. I'm like, okay, this is good.

37:42

I'll have guys to pick off. And

37:44

so I pass Tiernan, I

37:46

pass Trebek, I pass Matejko,

37:48

and I'm feeling really good. But

37:51

that's when, that's when it starts

37:53

to get hard again, right? As it

37:55

starts to flatten out. I'm

37:59

moving okay, but I'm not moving perfect

38:01

and I guess I one thing I

38:03

should say is About I was thinking

38:05

I was trying to think okay. Why

38:08

is why did my calf cramp, right?

38:10

and on my warm -up and about

38:12

5k and I could feel something in

38:14

my high right hamstring and I was

38:16

like, okay like That's there, but I'm

38:18

not gonna worry about it and I

38:20

got to try to run normal and

38:22

and so even just the last couple

38:24

days as I've been working through this

38:26

I've been like Talking

38:28

to my PT and massage therapist

38:30

like maybe the right hamstring as

38:32

it as it was tightening up

38:35

throughout the race I started to

38:37

compensate and my that's why my

38:39

My right solely is essentially my

38:41

calf cramped up But anyway all

38:43

that started feeling a little bit

38:45

looser, but then it yeah started

38:47

to get tough and so I

38:49

guess the play -by -play is With

38:51

about I think if I remember

38:53

right about a mile to go

38:55

is when Yeah, Tobelo Came

38:58

and caught me and for those that

39:00

don't know Tobelo Tobelo was like right ahead

39:02

of Connor and I at the Olympic

39:04

Games You know he was seventh and we

39:06

were eighth and ninth and so like

39:09

I knew Tobelo and when he came up

39:11

on me. I was like I was

39:13

already You know fighting a little bit and

39:15

so I I tucked in right behind

39:17

him and he luckily was like feeling pretty

39:19

smooth and I wanted to beat him

39:21

and so I was like, okay, let's play

39:23

this tactical tactical game over the last

39:25

mile And after running about another

39:27

quarter mile, that's when Rory caught us. And I

39:29

was like, dang it, we let Rory back

39:32

into this. And Rory didn't

39:34

hesitate one bit. Like he caught us

39:36

and he went to the front and

39:38

started pushing the pace. And so I

39:40

quickly got around Tobelo and got onto

39:42

Rory. And I was like, okay, like

39:44

I can maybe tango here. And

39:46

as we go through the underpass,

39:48

out of the underpass, you know, we

39:50

go to take the ride on

39:52

Hereford. And this is what I say

39:54

in the. in the interview, but

39:57

he slept his right leg, and I

39:59

thought he was saying right on

40:01

Hereford, but apparently he was cramping a

40:03

little bit. Later he

40:05

told me. Anyway, he said right on Hereford,

40:07

and then as we went to go take the left

40:09

on Boylston, I kind of poked out and was side

40:11

by side with him, and I took the inside. And

40:14

there's a good picture that you can find online

40:16

of Rory turning to me and say, he

40:19

says, okay, let's tango. And then from there,

40:21

it was just, I took the lead, he took

40:23

the lead, I took the lead. He took

40:25

the lead. I tucked in. It was a

40:27

strong head, and I'm like, this hurts. I poked

40:29

my head out. Oh, the finish is

40:31

still way far away. I tucked back in. And

40:34

then he makes one final move,

40:36

and that's all I had across the

40:38

line. And I think both of

40:40

us, with probably a couple hundred meters

40:42

to go, both saw the clock,

40:44

and we saw it 206 .40, 206 .50.

40:47

And we're like, man, maybe we could break

40:49

207. But I think we were too

40:51

much in a chess match to close

40:53

it out. But anyway. That's it

40:55

All right guys, I am

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44:16

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44:18

an afterthought. That's

44:32

what we didn't see, I guess, like

44:35

on TV because, you know, the last

44:37

shot we see of you before we

44:39

see the battle was Rory down the

44:41

homestretch was just like, yeah,

44:43

it was the move on 20. And

44:45

then we're all left wondering, it's like,

44:47

all right, well, what would happen

44:49

next. And so it is really cool

44:51

to hear that that's how it all

44:53

unfolded. And yeah, in a way, like

44:56

you having Rory and Tobelo definitely

44:58

helped continue the race. You guys could

45:00

have just coasted it in at some

45:02

point. But no, it was a fight

45:04

for every every spot at that

45:06

point and also pushing for time. I

45:08

guess, like, I don't know, we could

45:10

edit this out if we choose to.

45:12

But going back to your your

45:14

comments from our last. You know interview

45:16

where you said you made the deal

45:18

about like, you know, you're the way

45:21

you structured it I guess like

45:23

what can you reveal now? I guess

45:25

about like how you structured those swings

45:27

and risks like what were what was

45:29

the place that you that you

45:31

set for yourself? I was well above

45:33

my placing so even that light in

45:35

the race there wasn't a worry about

45:37

that Yeah, if I go back

45:39

and I like reflect on those last

45:41

couple moves like In a

45:43

way, you're right. And I even forgot about this.

45:46

There was a point when I did catch Pat

45:48

Tiernan, where I tucked behind him for like 20

45:50

seconds. I was like, okay, I'll give myself 20

45:52

seconds to tuck in behind him and then I'll

45:54

move as I was closing on him. And so

45:56

I counted to 20 and then I swung out

45:58

and I broke Tiernan, right? As

46:00

I caught him after he had broken me apart break.

46:03

And then once again with Tobelo

46:05

and then with Rory, like

46:07

Rory, Tiernan, Tobelo, Rory. I

46:09

had all these guys to kind

46:11

of work with over the last couple

46:13

miles and and in a way you're

46:16

right like I think that kept me

46:18

engaged but in a way I I

46:20

kind of got strategic like I got

46:22

too strategic and I almost wonder

46:24

if I had gotten to the top

46:26

of heartbreak and I was in no

46:28

man's land if I would have just

46:30

instead been able to like to push

46:32

and break 207 and like go faster

46:35

right And now at the end of

46:37

the day, like, it's Boston, and so it's not

46:39

about time, and it doesn't matter, like, computing is

46:41

the best part. But I definitely think about that,

46:43

like, okay, I had

46:45

broken away from Rory going up well

46:47

before Heartbreak, and so if I'd

46:49

gotten to the top of Heartbreak and

46:51

I had just pressed instead of,

46:53

you know, like, running

46:55

strategically with Tiernan or

46:57

Tobelo, like, could I have

47:00

finished well ahead of

47:02

Rory, and maybe even caught

47:04

fifth place? You

47:06

know fifth place still finished about a

47:08

minute ahead of me So I don't know

47:10

if that was possible or in the

47:12

cards, but like in a way You know

47:14

Rory catching me and me sitting behind

47:17

Rory for a half mile and then sitting

47:19

behind these other guys like Yes, it

47:21

it I was able to conserve and tuck

47:23

in don't get me wrong and But

47:25

I I do wonder You know, it's always

47:27

the kudashia what I was with actual

47:29

at with athletes, but like I do wonder

47:31

how fast could I have run or

47:33

slower if I had just Ben

47:35

pedal to the metal. Yes, is

47:37

that your what if because when

47:39

I did my interview with Connor

47:41

his what if was like his

47:43

positioning With the John career move

47:45

and you know whether he would

47:48

have gone with John and if

47:50

that would have led to him

47:52

You know finishing second or falling

47:54

still down a fourth, but maybe

47:56

running a little faster So what

47:58

is your what's your what if?

48:00

Yeah, yeah, I guess my what if, well, I guess

48:02

there's always the what if, like, okay, what if

48:04

my camp, my calf, my soloist didn't cramp, right? Like,

48:07

but that's not something I could really control. And,

48:09

you know, the fact that I was able

48:11

to rally over the last five miles and make

48:14

it to the finish line and still run

48:16

207 and, and crack into the top 10 and,

48:18

and not be worried about, you know, my

48:20

blow up clause, like, great, like that was awesome.

48:22

But like, so I am proud of the

48:24

way I rallied. But yeah, the what if is

48:26

like, okay, what if I had gotten to

48:28

the top of heartbreak worry caught me and I

48:30

I didn't hesitate as much. You

48:33

know, I sat for a good

48:35

while behind each of those athletes, and

48:37

maybe I should have just been

48:39

pressing the whole last five miles. And

48:42

in a way, I kind

48:44

of ignored my watch. And

48:46

I think if I would

48:48

have realized how slow we were

48:50

going, I maybe would

48:52

have been like, oh, I can do this.

48:54

And I would have started pressing. But

48:57

instead, I didn't really look at my watch the

48:59

last five miles. I think I only looked with

49:01

about a mile to go to see if we...

49:03

I noticed the clock with a mile to go

49:05

and said, oh, we could maybe break 207 or

49:07

not. But even

49:10

then, I was racing. And

49:12

at the end of the day, like I

49:14

said, that's what Boston's about. But

49:16

yeah, my could of would of should of is would

49:18

of should of is if I would have just pressed

49:20

the whole time. It's almost

49:22

it's almost as if sometimes Connor and

49:24

I like once again we need to

49:26

learn from each other like maybe Connor

49:29

should have Been a little more tactical

49:31

and tucked in a little bit more

49:33

throughout the race and in a way

49:35

I need to be the one pressing

49:37

a little bit more When I was

49:39

you know playing it too strategic right

49:41

in late in the race So that's

49:44

about it as we assess the overall

49:46

performance I feel like one thing that

49:48

Connor it's very easy because he's been

49:50

so vocal and clear about like he's

49:52

not concerned with top American It's all

49:54

about just trying to break through to

49:56

the podium and now you know given

49:59

his result It's fair to say like

50:01

yeah He's a contender to win these

50:03

races and I feel like if we

50:05

tear just sort of like even the

50:07

American athletes on like the global stage

50:09

you and Connor have been at the

50:11

same level and Now Connor moves into

50:13

sort of like that. He you know

50:16

that Area where he could say yeah,

50:18

I can try and win the Boston

50:20

Marathon New York City Marathon How close

50:22

are you also to kind of getting

50:24

into that space because I feel like

50:26

that's the next unlock like right now

50:28

if you know, we were to do

50:31

like a Power rankings of the American

50:33

Marathoners and there's still so much time

50:35

between now and the next trials But

50:37

if focusing on like where people are

50:39

right now like you guys are still

50:41

one, too But I'm curious how you

50:43

assess that gap between one and two

50:45

Totally like that's definitely been the other

50:48

thing that I've been wrestling with like

50:50

over these last couple days, right? Good

50:52

day in Boston seventh place is great

50:54

consistent day But yeah, I I can't

50:56

help but wonder okay Connor finished two

50:58

minutes ahead of me That's the biggest

51:00

gap we've had in the last what

51:03

five or six marathons, right? And and

51:05

in a way like I know exactly

51:07

what he's done in training better than

51:09

anybody else. I know that

51:11

I can do that and and so

51:14

it both makes it approachable but then

51:16

also like okay I've got my work

51:18

cut out for me and so yeah

51:20

I'm very aware of that almost maybe

51:22

to a fault right and people people

51:24

maybe call me out on that a

51:26

little bit right like it's like yeah

51:28

it's this comparison that I wrestle with

51:31

all the time but yeah don't get

51:33

me wrong yeah that eats me up

51:35

inside and and I I'm evaluating that

51:37

and yeah both what I did before

51:39

the race and during the race to

51:41

be able to kind of close that

51:43

gap and I would say you know

51:46

based off of what people have seen

51:48

in the docu -series and in Strava

51:50

and in training like people could tell

51:52

that there was a little bit bigger

51:54

gap than usual and I think that

51:56

coupled with you know Connor is finally

51:58

um it's kind of all clicked for

52:00

Connor like I've been telling people for

52:03

years now it seems like we haven't

52:05

seen Connor's best day yet we haven't

52:07

seen Connor's best day yet like We've

52:09

seen it in practice, we've seen it

52:11

in these tune -up races, but I think

52:13

Conor's big day in the marathon is

52:15

still to come, and we haven't seen

52:18

his potential. And so I think we

52:20

finally got to see it closer than

52:22

ever, or more than ever in Boston.

52:25

And so I think there's a

52:27

little bit of that as well

52:29

that plays into this gap, right? But

52:32

yeah, don't get me wrong. I'm

52:34

happy, but I'm hungry.

52:37

And I... I'm excited.

52:40

Yeah, I want to race again.

52:42

I want to just replay that

52:44

race again. Maybe not necessarily that

52:47

one. I think I executed fairly

52:49

well given the circumstances. But man,

52:51

why do we have to wait

52:53

six more months? But that's just

52:55

the part of the game. And

52:57

I get a lot of good compliments from

52:59

people. And the sport like meb comes up

53:01

to me and he's like, yeah, it's coming.

53:03

It's clicking. Just keep going. Like

53:06

you've got time and it's like

53:08

I don't know like I've got time

53:10

I'm young yes, but I'm not

53:12

that young and and I don't know

53:14

I want to figure it out

53:16

now It's just that's the athlete in

53:18

us, right? And yeah, that's that's

53:20

kind of where I stand right now

53:22

still reconciling it but because with

53:24

the way Connor describes it as like,

53:26

you know for all these other

53:28

races like I Thought I was like

53:30

ready to make the jump and

53:32

like, you know This time he does

53:34

feel like he made the jump. So

53:37

do you stay with that analogy? I

53:39

feel like you're on the edge

53:41

too. Like you're ready to take the

53:43

leap. And in a way like

53:45

you did, except for your calf cramped

53:48

up. And so if it's not

53:50

for that cramp, then maybe like you

53:52

also fall among, you know, the

53:54

the stars there of of like, Hey,

53:56

actually, let's all start talking about

53:58

Clayton the same way of like, he's

54:00

also contender to podium at these

54:02

races. That's how I feel. And

54:04

that's what I, and even if

54:06

it's, whether it's true or not, that's

54:09

what I gotta believe. And

54:11

that's the faith I gotta have moving forward. And

54:13

regardless of what other people say

54:15

or what other people think, and like,

54:17

yes, there is power and truth

54:19

and being honest with myself, but there's

54:21

gotta be faith and there's gotta

54:23

be belief that I... Not only can

54:25

close that gap that I am

54:27

in that tier and I can't compete

54:29

with the best and and what's

54:31

amazing about it to be honest is

54:33

Like Connor's my training partner and

54:35

coach ice stones my coach and Ashley

54:37

is absolutely crushing it in my

54:39

in supporting me and helping me and

54:41

everybody's on my side everybody's on

54:43

my Wants to see me succeed like

54:45

that's that's definitely was one of

54:47

the big takeaways for sure from this

54:49

weekend Even before the race is

54:51

just how many people wanted to see

54:53

me crush it As an athlete, when

54:56

your own personal belief

54:58

and faith to compete

55:00

is what is most

55:03

important, but the belief

55:05

of those around you

55:07

can make a difference.

55:10

And I feel love, I

55:12

feel the support, and

55:14

I felt it in Boston.

55:18

Shout out to the crowds out there just for

55:20

a brief second so that it just carried

55:22

us. when things got

55:25

tough, incessant so loud, Clayton

55:27

Connor, Connor, Clayton, Connor,

55:29

Connor, Connor, Clayton, Clayton, Connor,

55:31

like it just was

55:33

deafening and we feel the

55:35

love. Any good signs

55:37

stick out? I feel like now it's

55:39

all a blur for you guys. Or did

55:41

anyone yell anything funny or interesting? Those

55:45

that were close to me for sure, like

55:47

I had kind of sent them a list

55:49

of cues that were personal to me that

55:51

So I could recognize them, and that helps

55:53

so I can see them. Our

55:56

caravan of two vans hopped a

55:58

couple of times throughout the course

56:00

to cheer us on, and it

56:02

was so valuable having them out

56:04

there amongst the other fans that were

56:06

just cheering our names. But

56:09

yeah, one of the ones that

56:11

stands out is from Isaac Wood, good

56:14

friend of mine, now coach is at the Salt Lake Community

56:16

College. He pulled out

56:18

a classic Timo Mostert, my old high

56:20

school coach from American Fork High School. He

56:22

said, feel the pace, be the

56:24

pace. And that's something that resonated with

56:26

me throughout the race. But there was one side

56:28

that I read, but it wasn't applicable to us. I

56:31

remember I was like, oh, that's kind of weird,

56:33

but that's about it. No temptation

56:35

for high fives through

56:37

Wellesley. Well

56:39

in this hypothetical situation where somebody was

56:41

wearing, you know, these Ray -Ban metaglasses

56:43

it was very tempting to try

56:45

to capture cool moments But this person

56:47

resisted and tried to stay focused

56:49

and I think I I think I

56:51

touched fingers with one kid once

56:53

like I went to go give a

56:55

high five and we just I

56:57

think our index fingers touched and that

56:59

was about it, but I Honestly

57:02

was just trying to stay focused and

57:04

and those of you that know

57:06

me like I tried to run the

57:08

first part of the race um

57:10

as emotionally as emotionless as possible right

57:12

so I'm even my cues um

57:14

the things that I write on my

57:16

bottles like are kind of progressive

57:18

a lot of them start very mechanical

57:20

very um you know physical just

57:22

they stay present and then the last

57:24

half of the race is when

57:26

I turn towards the more emotional side

57:28

of the race and that lines

57:30

up perfect with Boston because the crowds

57:32

just get louder and louder all

57:34

right to kind of bring it All

57:36

together, we hinted at, in the

57:39

last episode, just sort

57:41

of a potential breakup, you

57:43

know, part -time breakup with Connor. After

57:46

this race, does it feel like that's

57:49

still likely? Yeah,

57:51

I mean, all options are on

57:53

the table still. It

57:55

sounds like you both want to run fast. Yeah,

57:57

yeah, there's definitely some incentive to run

57:59

fast, and what was really cool is

58:01

right after the race, even like the

58:03

Valencia race director. Saw me

58:05

and found and sought me out and

58:07

said hey like we'd love to have

58:09

you in Valencia if you want to

58:11

run Valencia, so There's options right and

58:13

so whether it's Whether it's going to

58:15

Chicago and chase an American record and

58:17

then doubling back or I guess not

58:20

even doubling back on that one, but

58:22

or it's going to worlds and seeing

58:24

how I can do in the heat

58:26

and humidity and and trying to tackle

58:28

a global medal and then and then

58:30

doubling back to Valencia, right or Or

58:32

it's going to New York and going

58:34

where my fan base is biggest. People

58:36

love me in New York. And

58:38

I love being there. And

58:41

the race loves having me

58:43

there. So all options are

58:45

open. I

58:47

wish I knew. But yeah, those decisions

58:49

will probably be made in the next

58:51

couple of weeks as I continue to

58:53

talk with race directors and even sponsors

58:55

and brands. I've already

58:57

had a couple of conversations already

58:59

with brands. even

59:01

just today about people that are interested in

59:03

the docuseries, depending on which, not

59:06

depending on which race I choose, but if and

59:08

when I choose a race, right? And so there'll

59:10

be more to come. And

59:12

I wish, I wish I don't have an answer at

59:14

this point, but I wish I did. I

59:17

love that. Runner Clayton

59:19

gets to take some time

59:21

off right about now, but business

59:23

Clayton has to sit on

59:25

meetings. gosh. You know the week

59:27

and days after the Boston Marathon, but that's

59:29

you know the realities of it when you're

59:31

when you are your own agent What is

59:33

the thing you're looking forward to the most

59:35

on this break and this you know come

59:37

down from from the marathon? Yeah,

59:40

I yeah break in general for sure.

59:42

I I think I'm excited to actually

59:44

take some time off, you know I

59:46

After New York like I explained last

59:48

time I kind of got suckered into

59:51

It's a race in Houston and I don't regret

59:53

that. I think it was a great event and

59:55

I ran fast. I ran a PB, but it

59:57

wasn't everything I hoped for. But

1:00:00

in a way, we started training

1:00:02

23, 24 weeks out from Boston. And

1:00:04

that was maybe a little too long. And

1:00:07

it also cut our

1:00:10

rest and recovery short. And

1:00:12

so, yeah, I'm excited

1:00:14

to take some time off. I might

1:00:16

be heading out to Florida next

1:00:18

week and then to California briefly. It

1:00:21

just, we're, we don't plan anything

1:00:23

until after Boston and there's some plans

1:00:25

in the work. So maybe put my

1:00:27

toes in the sand for a little

1:00:29

bit and not run for a little

1:00:31

bit. But who knows, there's always another

1:00:33

race and some of my favorite races

1:00:35

are coming up. So who knows if

1:00:37

I'll be able to hold strong and

1:00:39

actually take a break. He's at Florida

1:00:41

next week and I was like, are

1:00:43

you doing Grand Slam Miami? And it's

1:00:45

funny because Connors made it clear. He's

1:00:47

like, I am trying to get. Kyle,

1:00:49

remember his attention to sign me up

1:00:51

for one of the Grand Slam races.

1:00:54

You're done on the track, right? Oh,

1:00:57

man. Does $10 ,000 change your

1:00:59

mind? Well,

1:01:01

$10 ,000 and just the opportunity to race

1:01:03

Grand Slam, I think would be incredible,

1:01:05

right? You know, I'm tempted. I'm

1:01:07

really tempted. In fact, one of the reasons

1:01:09

that I've been staying away from the track so

1:01:12

much is because of my Achilles, but going

1:01:14

into and out of this race, my Achilles have

1:01:16

actually been the best they've ever been. And

1:01:18

so I think I could actually finally handle spikes

1:01:20

now for the first time in my training

1:01:22

in a long time. And so it is a

1:01:24

little tempting, you know, this quest to break

1:01:26

four, this quest to, you know,

1:01:29

I saw Rory get a new 10K PB

1:01:31

and there's that idea. There's this

1:01:33

idea that Connor runs, you know, USA's every year and

1:01:35

I always get left out because I don't have

1:01:37

a time anymore. And so I

1:01:39

fun run, you know, 10K USA's,

1:01:41

but you know, Kyle Marber. If

1:01:43

you want a really good docu

1:01:45

-series episode of me going to

1:01:47

Grand Slam, I don't know whether

1:01:49

it's racing or, or highlighting Grand

1:01:52

Slam, let's make it happen. Yeah. I

1:01:54

was just laughing at the thought

1:01:56

of, of you and Connor staging

1:01:58

your own sub four minute mile

1:02:00

attempt, just like a day or

1:02:02

two before faith could be a

1:02:04

gone, just so that you guys

1:02:06

get it before. That's a good

1:02:08

point if faith gets it. Like

1:02:10

I have to, right? Like at

1:02:12

this, uh, not. Is your mile

1:02:14

PR so fat your mile PR

1:02:16

so faster right because she's 407

1:02:18

Yeah, I'm I'm four flat Point

1:02:20

seven seven that hurts. I only

1:02:22

got to run at once in

1:02:24

college down at sea level and

1:02:26

That's it. Yeah, that was my

1:02:28

one shot and I barely missed

1:02:30

it Yeah, you and I can't

1:02:32

have a mile PR starting with

1:02:34

the same digit. No, no No,

1:02:36

you earn it you earned it

1:02:38

that so you can take it

1:02:40

All right, Clayton. This is always

1:02:42

a blast. Thank you so much

1:02:45

for for your time and also

1:02:47

just for your openness to share

1:02:49

everything along the journey, whether it's

1:02:51

through the podcast or then through

1:02:53

the YouTube series, I'll be waiting

1:02:55

on pins and needles for this

1:02:57

final Boston episode, but then already

1:02:59

excited for the next build. Thanks,

1:03:02

Chris. Pleasure being on. Thank

1:03:06

you all for listening to this episode. This

1:03:08

episode was produced by Jasmine Fair. I love doing

1:03:10

this for you guys, so please do me

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1:03:35

As always, I love track and field. I'm

1:03:37

Chris Chavez. See you next time. All

1:03:40

right, listeners. I hope you enjoyed

1:03:42

that episode. We're back with a

1:03:44

little bit more with Swift Quick

1:03:46

CEO Mark Cho. So I

1:03:48

can obviously speak to the FlightXT

1:03:50

working. No blisters, no hot

1:03:53

spots, felt great during my

1:03:55

half marathon. What is the

1:03:57

feeling you hope, you know, the

1:03:59

consumer gets out of wearing you know,

1:04:01

the FlightXT or any of the

1:04:03

products. I think you know, you the

1:04:05

sort of fundamentals in terms of

1:04:07

you know, it's got fit well, it's

1:04:10

got to you know, that you

1:04:12

have moisture wicking and protection, but

1:04:14

I think on top of that,

1:04:16

one of the things that comes

1:04:18

to mind me is kind of

1:04:20

this idea of if you feel

1:04:23

good, you're gonna perform well. Candidly,

1:04:26

out of all the aspects of your

1:04:28

race kit, right? Okay. Shoes are

1:04:30

to definitely be up there. Sinklet is

1:04:32

be up there. There's a lot

1:04:34

of other things that are kind of gonna

1:04:37

come above socks And I think one of the

1:04:39

things that I would love to do in

1:04:41

terms of the direction that we're taking

1:04:43

SwiftWake to take socks from kind of

1:04:45

like almost ring category to one that

1:04:47

you really think about as a part

1:04:49

of your kid, whether for training or

1:04:51

for race. Try for yourself, City of

1:04:53

Mag listeners, Get 15 % off your

1:04:55

first order with the code CITYASMAG at

1:04:58

checkout when you visit SwiftWake .com. You can

1:05:00

also hit the link in our show

1:05:02

notes. See you next time.