0:01

Hello, it's Greyer Jackson and

0:03

this is the climate question

0:05

from the BBC World Service.

0:07

And this week your monthly

0:09

ish dose of climate news,

0:12

including the future of a

0:14

huge coal hole in Germany.

0:16

I had the map on Google Maps

0:18

and take a look where we can

0:20

go and I saw this big hole

0:22

on the map and I say, hey,

0:24

we have to go here and it's

0:26

incredible. And why climate change

0:28

is making polar bear

0:30

encounters more likely. and

0:32

how people in Svalbard

0:35

in Norway are training

0:37

for the possibility of

0:39

a run-in. Don't worry, as

0:41

I said, it's just a drill,

0:43

no one is being mauled

0:45

by a polar bear. Plus

0:48

we'll be looking at the

0:50

latest on glaciers. And

0:53

as usual, Esmee Stallard is here

0:55

to discuss the big events from

0:57

climate. Esmee is the BBC's climate

1:00

and science reporter. How are you?

1:02

Has me been working on anything?

1:04

Do you see? I'm good. A

1:06

little bit of frazzled. It feels

1:08

like it's kind of been nonstop

1:10

in part due to what's going

1:12

on the US and also a

1:14

lot of changes in the climate

1:16

community over there. And actually, it

1:18

links very closely with the story

1:21

I've been following for the last

1:23

couple of weeks about the Royal

1:25

Society and Elon Musk, a strange combination.

1:27

But a bit of a fight that's

1:29

breaking out at the moment. Yeah, so

1:31

just tell our listeners what the Royal

1:34

Society is. in the world and considered

1:36

one of the most prominent. Effectively what

1:38

it's overall aim is to promote science

1:40

globally and once occasionally in a blue

1:43

moon they elect fellows and these are

1:45

people who are considered to be leading

1:47

scientists in their field. And Elon Musk

1:50

was made one of these fellows wasn't

1:52

he? Why? He was back in 2018

1:54

for his technological advancements or progress

1:56

he made through Tesla and through

1:59

Space X. This was a little

2:01

bit of a change I think

2:03

from who they would normally elect.

2:05

It kind of was an effort

2:07

by the Royal Society to recognise those

2:09

scientists operating more within the business

2:11

community rather than just researches those in

2:13

lab coats effectively. Right, okay. But

2:15

now something's happened. So some fellows raised

2:18

concerns over musts behaviour for a

2:20

couple of reasons. They thought he was

2:22

spreading disinformation or scientific fact on

2:24

his platform X. they thought that he

2:27

was not conducting himself in a

2:29

proper manner as expected of fellows because

2:31

of his attacks on another fellow who

2:33

people might know called Nancy Fauci who

2:35

was the previous chief medical officer in

2:37

the US administration but then also more

2:39

recently in his role while working at

2:41

Doge which is this new US department

2:43

for kind of finding efficiencies. the Royal

2:45

Society were effectively sort of pushed into

2:47

a corner and forced to call an

2:49

emergency meeting and that was on Monday

2:52

night and there was about 150 fellows

2:54

in attendance. There are 1,700 so it's

2:56

not the majority of them by any

2:58

stretch to discuss his behaviour and more

3:00

generally their response to what is going

3:02

on in the US. You know, there's

3:04

been actions in terms of closing down

3:06

funding NIH, which is research around health

3:08

care. There's been impacts on NOAA, which

3:10

is the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration

3:13

in the US. That's the government body

3:15

that does research around how oceans function

3:17

and also the impacts of climate change

3:19

and climate science are very important. So

3:21

what happened in that meeting? Well it's

3:23

a very private meeting. Fellows are told

3:25

not to discuss it with the press.

3:27

They put out a statement effectively saying

3:29

that they recognise that they need to

3:31

do more to support the scientific community

3:34

in the US and advocate for science.

3:36

They haven't mentioned Musk in their statement,

3:38

but I have spoken to a couple

3:40

of fellows who are at the meeting

3:42

and told me on condition of anonymity

3:44

because they're not allowed to talk to

3:46

the press. it was agreed that Elon

3:48

Musk would be written to by the

3:50

society and he would be asked to

3:52

explain how he was upholding or supporting

3:54

truth within science and if he felt

3:56

he was unable to do that then

3:58

he may consider his position. effectively this

4:00

was kind of seen as a happy

4:03

medium if you like between kicking musk

4:05

out but also expressing their unhappiness with

4:07

the way that he's conducted himself but

4:09

fellows are not in agreement across the

4:11

board some consider this an interference in

4:13

politics whilst others say it's not about

4:15

politics at all really this is a

4:17

question of ethics what you can say

4:19

under the law is very different what

4:21

you can say under their code of

4:23

conduct and you should be upholding truth

4:25

and some consider him not to be

4:27

upholding scientific fact Yeah, I mean, Musk's achievements

4:29

are quite impressive, though. You know,

4:31

whatever you think of his politics,

4:33

there's SpaceX, there's Tesla, you know,

4:35

that reusable rocket landing back on

4:38

its launch pad was really quite

4:40

impressive. Yeah, it's very interesting. I

4:42

think in terms of his achievements,

4:44

I think there is no doubt

4:46

about that. I spoke to Professor

4:48

Andreyheim, who is the Nobel Prize

4:50

winner for physics, very renowned for

4:52

being quite outspoken. And when I

4:54

asked him about that, he said

4:56

to me that... Musk may be

4:58

eccentric, but his achievements be any of

5:00

those of his critics in the rural

5:02

society. So there are some that are

5:04

big advocates for keeping him in it.

5:06

What has Elon Musk said about all

5:08

of this? Mr Musk is very difficult

5:10

as you may imagine. I don't have

5:12

his number and speed up his direct

5:14

line. No, me and my colleague have

5:16

been trying to contact Mr Musk through

5:18

his various different companies, Tesla, SpaceX. We

5:20

even don't really message him via Doge.

5:22

But as of yet, no luck. And

5:24

it was an interesting point that some

5:26

fellows made. Do we actually think Mr

5:28

Musk would even care if he would

5:31

be kicked out? But obviously there was

5:33

the optics around that and what that

5:35

looks like. Well, we'll have to wait

5:38

and see and follow the story along,

5:40

but you know, you talk about all

5:42

the changes. No, I just wonder, what's

5:44

the mood like among the climate scientists

5:47

you've spoken to in the US? Words

5:49

I've heard used are terrifying, scared, climate

5:51

of fear. You know, we're hearing stories

5:53

of people saying that they feel like

5:56

they're self-censoring in an effort to kind

5:58

of continue to do their job. I've spoken

6:00

to some scientists that have taken early

6:02

retirement. Is anyone unwilling to talk to

6:04

you as a result? Many people I

6:07

spoke to about this story said they

6:09

don't want to mention Musk, they won't

6:11

mention Trump, they don't want that included

6:13

in their quotes, and these are scientists

6:15

who don't engage in politics in general,

6:18

they made that very clear, but they

6:20

feel like right now that they can't

6:22

even speak about what's happening to them.

6:24

Okay, well we're going to be looking

6:27

at this in more detail at the

6:29

end of April with a show

6:31

all about President Donald Trump's

6:33

first 100 days in power.

6:35

So do subscribe to the

6:38

Climate Question podcast so you

6:40

don't miss that. Now do

6:42

I see Caroline Steele loitering

6:44

outside the studio? I think

6:46

I do. Come on in

6:48

Caroline. Hello. Caroline before, have

6:51

you two met? No? No!

6:53

We haven't, which is very

6:55

strange, because I feel like

6:57

we do a lot of

6:59

tag teaming, where our hero won

7:01

a science podcast, and I'll be on

7:04

it the next week, so it's nice

7:06

to actually be together on one. Yeah,

7:08

nice to finally meet you in person.

7:11

Yeah, well, so for anyone who doesn't

7:13

know, Caroline hosts a BBC World

7:15

Service show called Crowd Science, where

7:17

you, Caroline, were on the climate

7:19

question, you were talking. about how

7:21

you were going to Svalbard in

7:24

Norway in the Arctic circle. So

7:26

how was it? It was incredible.

7:28

Genuinely, I think the most beautiful

7:30

place I've ever been, which is

7:32

impressive bearing in mind the sun

7:34

didn't rise while I was there,

7:37

but I could still make out

7:39

these beautiful snowy mountains and yeah,

7:41

just an incredible landscape and very

7:43

very friendly people. Whilst you were

7:46

there though, you've been looking into

7:48

the future of climate change is

7:50

post-a-child, the polar bear, haven't you?

7:53

Yeah, so climate change is melting

7:55

sea ice, which is having a

7:58

huge impact on polar bears. as

8:00

they hunt most of their

8:02

food seals on this ice.

8:04

So they're being driven inland

8:06

in search of alternative sources

8:08

of food, which means they're

8:10

more likely to run into

8:12

people and their pet puppies,

8:14

as Falbard resident Gunhill told

8:16

me. This beer was a rather

8:18

huge male that came slowly towards

8:20

us. We could see that he

8:23

was rising on his back legs,

8:25

trying to get the fence down

8:27

with his front legs, really putting

8:29

his way to it. It wanted

8:32

those puppies. So when it was

8:34

run out, making noise, we'd put

8:36

some pans. And another person ran

8:39

out trying to get the flare

8:41

gun. It didn't work, so it

8:43

was a bit stressful situation there.

8:46

Encounters with polar bears are

8:48

becoming more common as the climate

8:50

warms. And running into a polar

8:52

bear is something Svalbard residents are

8:54

constantly preparing themselves for. So they

8:57

carry guns outside of the main

8:59

town. They leave their houses and

9:01

cars unlocked so anyone can escape

9:04

a bear. And as I found

9:06

out, the university centre there even

9:08

runs a polar bear safety training

9:10

course. What

9:15

is going on here Caroline? So

9:17

a fake polar bear is

9:20

being pulled by a snowmobile

9:22

towards students on this course

9:24

and they're responding perfectly. They're

9:26

putting their training into practice

9:28

by yelling, banging things together

9:30

and setting off flares, basically

9:33

making as much noise as

9:35

possible to scare the bear

9:37

away. It

9:46

sounds dramatic but also vaguely humorous.

9:48

It was both of those things

9:50

as it was completely pitch black.

9:52

The fake polar bear to me

9:55

looked really quite real. You sent

9:57

me the video there and then

9:59

and I was... convinced by it

10:01

as well. Did you respond saying you

10:03

saw one? And I was like no,

10:05

no, great, that's made out of cardboard.

10:08

So once the course was over I

10:10

headed to the Sfaubard Museum to meet

10:12

someone who's part of a study trying

10:14

to better understand the impacts of melting

10:17

sea ice on polar bears by having

10:19

a look at their dens. My name

10:21

is Christian Solley. I'm working for

10:23

polar bears international in the Arctic.

10:26

And Svalbard is a

10:28

particularly important place for polar

10:30

bears, is that right? Yes, so

10:32

it's very very important for female pregnant

10:34

bears. So they usually go in the

10:37

den in November and then give birth

10:39

around New Year. Polar bear cub at

10:41

birth weighs about like half a

10:43

kilogram, like roughly like one pound.

10:45

Yeah. It's tiny, it's blind, hairless. So

10:48

by the time they actually start

10:50

going out the den and polar bear

10:52

cubs weighs about 10 kilograms. Right, okay,

10:54

so the mothers need to be

10:56

really nice and fat and healthy

10:58

in order to be able to

11:01

stay in the den all those

11:03

months, basically fasting, no access to

11:05

food, but also nursing their cubs.

11:07

And they typically get nice and

11:09

fat because of the seals you

11:11

mentioned, and they eat loads of

11:13

seals before they get pregnant, and

11:15

seals live on the ice. And

11:18

you said ice has declined in

11:20

the Arctic. So does that mean

11:22

there's less opportunity for seal snacks?

11:24

Yeah, exactly. And polar bears international

11:26

in Svalbard wanted to see how

11:28

fewer seal snacks impacts mothers and

11:30

their cubs. So they put solar-powered

11:32

cameras in front of dens and

11:35

then film the bears as they

11:37

emerge. So the researchers focused on

11:39

how long the bears hibernate for,

11:41

what they do once they emerge,

11:43

the condition they're in, so how

11:45

much body fat they've got, and

11:47

the survival rate of the cubs. Due

11:50

to loss of sea ice, there's

11:52

fewer dense, actually, in the area.

11:54

Also, Fewer females get pregnant. After

11:56

the female bears have been out

11:58

on the sea ice. mating in

12:00

the spring or early summer, then the egg

12:03

doesn't get implanted until the female body

12:05

has enough body fat. But so clever,

12:07

so female polar bears don't get

12:09

pregnant unless they've got enough

12:11

fat. Exactly, so it's... That must

12:14

be life-saving because I guess if a

12:16

polar bear got pregnant and wasn't fat

12:18

enough nursing the cubs would... kill her

12:20

essentially. Exactly, kind of knowing that she's

12:22

fasting for almost four months by staying

12:25

in the den, she needs to be

12:27

in good shape because she cannot leave

12:29

the den, go out and have a

12:31

snack somewhere and come back. The

12:33

Denning study also found that the

12:36

mothers and their cubs are in

12:38

worse condition when they emerge from

12:40

their dens. So that's why they're

12:42

searching for food in land, in

12:44

towns and villages, so there's more...

12:46

chance of interaction. Yeah, exactly. And

12:49

research in some areas of the

12:51

Arctic finds that longer periods with

12:53

no sea ice are linked to

12:55

increasing conflict between humans and polar

12:57

bears. Let's return to Sfaubard resident

12:59

Gunhill and the puppies. Luckily, someone

13:02

came up with a clever solution to

13:04

scare that polar bear away. And then,

13:06

all of a sudden, a third

13:08

person of the group just ran

13:10

out, because there's a garage there,

13:12

and of all things, there's a

13:14

tractor. So he came out with

13:16

a tractor towards the polar bear,

13:19

and finally the polar bear ran

13:21

off. But it was, yeah, remember

13:23

the moment, your heart is like

13:25

pounding, and it was, yeah, it

13:27

was quite stressful, but... The puppy

13:29

ran off. Yeah. You do get

13:31

creative. You just have to. That's

13:34

how you survive. Well, a happy

13:36

ending for the puppies and

13:38

that particular polar bear. But

13:40

what about polar bears more broadly

13:42

on Svelbad and beyond? Yeah, melting

13:45

sea ice is certainly really

13:47

bad news for polar bears on

13:49

sphelbard and in the Arctic

13:51

more generally. Although I think it's

13:54

worth saying that not all polar

13:56

bear populations are declining. The

13:58

sphelbard population is relatively... steady for

14:00

now and that might be because

14:03

the bears are recovering after a

14:05

hunting ban but other bear populations

14:07

in similar environments to Svalbard are

14:09

experiencing serious decline and one paper

14:11

published in the journal Nature predicts

14:14

that if we continue with high

14:16

emission levels most polar bear populations

14:18

could be extinct by 2100 sobering

14:20

message and thank you so much

14:23

Caroline for telling us about your

14:25

trip. Thank you for having me

14:27

on. A

14:30

reminder that you're listening to the

14:32

climate question from the BBC

14:34

World Service. I'm Grea Jackson and

14:36

with me throughout the show

14:38

is my fellow climateeer Esme

14:40

Stalard from BBC News. Hi.

14:43

We were just talking about

14:45

sea ice in the Arctic

14:47

but that's not the only

14:49

thing that's melting. A recent

14:51

analysis published in the journal

14:53

Nature has shown that the

14:55

world's glaciers are melting faster

14:57

than ever before. Esme, this

14:59

is a story that the

15:01

climate and science team has

15:03

been covering. Just with the numbers.

15:06

So this century, so in the last

15:08

25 years, the world's glaciers, so that's

15:11

from the polar regions to inland, have

15:13

lost more than 6.5 trillion tons of

15:15

their rice, or about 5%. but actually

15:17

some of that melting is happening the

15:20

quickest within the polar regions and that's

15:22

due to a phenomenon called pole amplification

15:24

and that's to do with a couple

15:27

of things I mean as the glacier

15:29

ice is melting what's happening is is

15:31

less able to reflect the heat from

15:33

the sun so it's accelerating that process

15:36

but also what happens is a natural phenomenon

15:38

you might if you ever go around the

15:40

tropics you find there's a lot of thunderstorms

15:42

there and they carry a lot of heat

15:44

but what they do is they rise and

15:46

they travel to the higher latitudes and they

15:48

bring with them a lot of warmth and

15:51

so that accelerates the melting even further and

15:53

unlike the Antarctic the Arctic is not protected

15:55

by a cool ocean current and so actually

15:57

that is where we're seeing the most significant

15:59

melt. occurring. In the Arctic.

16:01

Yep. And why is that

16:04

a problem while melting glaciers

16:06

contribute significantly to sea level

16:09

rise? Thank you, Esme. And

16:11

now to Germany, one of the

16:13

most important countries in the world

16:15

in terms of climate policy. Wouldn't

16:18

you agree with me? Absolutely. Thums

16:20

up, yeah. It's just had an

16:23

election with the biggest vote to

16:25

turn out in 40 years. Friedrich

16:27

Martz will be the country's next

16:30

Chancellor. He leads the Centre Right

16:32

Party, the Christian Democratic Union. One

16:34

of the big issues the new

16:36

government will face is what to

16:39

do with the coal industry. Germany

16:41

still produces more of this fossilised

16:43

fuel than any other country in

16:45

Europe and has huge reserves remaining.

16:47

It's a story my colleague Tim

16:50

Mansell has been following for a

16:52

few years now. Tim works on

16:54

our sister BBC World Service programme

16:56

assignment and has been to hand

16:58

back coal mine near Cologne. And

17:01

Tim, you sent me some pictures

17:03

earlier and I was blown away

17:05

by the scale of this. Were you?

17:07

Yeah, it's astonishing, isn't it? I

17:09

first went in 2019 and the

17:11

first time I saw it and

17:13

I had to sort of say

17:16

something spontaneous into my microphone and

17:18

I remember saying it looked like

17:20

the Grand Canyon. It's 400 metres

17:22

to it. That might be slightly

17:24

hard to visualize, but if you

17:26

dropped... the shard into it. The shard

17:28

is that enormous tower in London.

17:31

It would swallow the shard hole

17:33

and there'd still be another hundred

17:35

meters of headroom. And the other

17:37

thing about it is it's really

17:39

become a tourist attraction so they've

17:41

set up a kind of look-out

17:43

area on the edge of the

17:45

mine. There are picnic tables and

17:48

there are chairs and there are

17:50

sort of metal-topped umbrellas sunshades perhaps.

17:52

And people come from all over,

17:54

just to gore, put this huge

17:56

hole in the ground. We are

17:58

driving to Belgium. and we made

18:01

here a short spot for eating

18:03

and drink a good German beer.

18:05

And why did you choose to

18:07

stop here? This here is, it's

18:09

a very incredible place from German

18:11

history, the whole economy here. How

18:13

does it make you feel to

18:15

look at this hole in the

18:17

ground? I'm a little bit speechless,

18:19

I hadn't think that it's so

18:21

big here. I had the map on Google

18:23

Maps and take a look where we can

18:25

go and I saw this big hole on

18:27

the map and I say, hey, we have

18:30

to go here and it's incredible.

18:32

What was there before there was

18:34

a big hole? There was a

18:36

huge forest, four villages, and a

18:39

stretch of motorway. And this kind

18:41

of mining is open cast mining.

18:43

It means they just scrape off

18:45

the surface layer by layer till

18:47

they get to the coal underneath.

18:50

So anything in the way just

18:52

has to be... removed. So four

18:54

villagers have already gone. And when

18:56

I was there towards the end

18:58

of last year, I went to

19:01

a fifth village. It's called Marchenich.

19:03

Today, the mine has crept to

19:05

within perhaps a couple of

19:07

kilometers of Marchenich. I was

19:09

shown round by belt Selvos.

19:11

Belts in his 50s. I

19:13

remember he was wearing a

19:15

joy division t-shirt. And we

19:17

went to the house that

19:19

he used to live in. My

19:21

mother was born in the

19:24

house. Your mother was born

19:26

in the house. Yes. I'll

19:28

just describe it. It's a

19:31

two-story house red brick. There's

19:33

a gap in the fence.

19:35

And we can get through

19:38

into the back garden. Oh,

19:40

it's quite a sad sight.

19:42

It's all boarded up. The

19:45

Ivy has run riot. How

19:47

does it feel to look at

19:50

the house? Said. Sad. Yes.

19:52

Yeah. Grier, I mentioned the

19:54

fast ancient forest, the

19:56

few hectares of trees

19:58

that are... now have

20:00

acquired huge significance. That last

20:03

little bit of forest became

20:05

the focus of attention for

20:08

climate activists not only in

20:10

Germany but from all over

20:12

Europe. The high point came

20:15

in 2018 when on one

20:17

day something like 50,000 people

20:20

are reckoned to have been

20:22

in the forest to protest

20:25

against any more trees being

20:27

cut down. Okay, so I

20:29

think it's fair to say this

20:32

has been a real point of

20:34

controversy, not just for Germans, but

20:36

for Europeans. What's happening to the

20:39

mine now? So, the original plan

20:41

was to keep digging coal until

20:43

2045, but in late 2018, the

20:46

government in Berlin put together what

20:48

came to be known as the

20:51

coal commission, and it was their

20:53

job. to come up with a

20:55

strategy for the future of coal

20:58

mining in Germany. And all this,

21:00

of course, in the context of

21:02

climate change. And in their final

21:05

report, the Commission said that Germany

21:07

should stop generating electricity from coal

21:09

by 2038. So what does that

21:12

mean for the Hamburg mine? The

21:14

Commission added a specific recommendation on

21:17

the Hamburg forest. It said that

21:19

it would be Wuchenswert, that means

21:21

preferable or desirable, if the forest

21:24

or what's left of it was

21:26

left in place. And of course

21:28

that sent a very, very powerful

21:31

political signal. So the knock-on effect

21:33

of that was a decision by

21:36

the state government that mining in

21:38

this part of Germany would end

21:40

not in 2045, but at the

21:43

Hamburg mine in 20... 29. Now

21:45

that's not what the mining company

21:47

had planned on. It will be

21:50

leaving more than a billion, billion

21:52

with a B, tons of coal

21:55

in the ground. So what does

21:57

that mean for the... village you

21:59

visited and to mount the Joy

22:02

Division fan. So that's the interesting

22:04

bit because with the mine closing

22:06

16 years earlier than originally planned

22:09

the mining company conceded that it

22:11

would no longer need to knock

22:13

bounce village down and as you

22:16

might imagine that led to somewhat

22:18

mixed emotions. So what is burnt

22:21

going to do then? I think

22:23

he flirted briefly with the idea

22:25

of... moving back in, but he

22:28

realized pretty quickly that wasn't feasible.

22:30

Bounts moved out some years ago

22:32

along with most of his neighbours

22:35

and they've moved to a new

22:37

village. That's what generally happens in

22:40

a situation like this. The mining

22:42

company buys your house, you take

22:44

the money, you may have to

22:47

take a loan out as well,

22:49

and then you build a new

22:51

house in a new village. And

22:54

the villagers get to choose where

22:56

that new village is, and what

22:59

it's going to look like. and

23:01

bound played a very active role

23:03

in that process. So this village

23:06

has a completely different feel. Yes,

23:08

completely different, is we've driven from

23:10

a village with a tradition going

23:13

back centuries and five minutes up

23:15

the road. We're in a village

23:17

that's been here for less than

23:20

ten years. Everything is square. a

23:22

lot of flat roofs painted white.

23:25

I think that must be the

23:27

church back there with a spire

23:29

that looks like a sail. So

23:32

it is housing, yes. That was

23:34

the design. And this is a

23:36

sign of the present, a sign

23:39

of the future here already. There

23:41

are places where electric cars can

23:44

be recharged. That's important. I don't

23:46

think you would have found those

23:48

in the old village. No. No.

23:51

I rather like the idea of

23:53

that. One question remains for... meet

23:55

him though, what's going to happen

23:58

to that big hole? They're going

24:00

to fill it with water, which

24:03

sounds straightforward, but it's going to

24:05

take 40 years. So the mine

24:07

will close in 2009. I think

24:10

they're already building that pipeline from

24:12

the River Rhine into the mine

24:14

when it's full. I think it'll

24:17

be the biggest lake in Germany

24:19

apart from Lake Constance, which doesn't

24:21

sort of count because that's on

24:24

the border with Switzerland anyway. planning

24:26

all sorts of leisure activities and

24:29

tourist activities around that. I've got

24:31

a big glossy brochure that's been

24:33

produced about what this might all

24:36

look like. Tim, thank you so

24:38

much and you can catch Tim's

24:40

assignment documentary, Wherever you get your

24:43

BBC podcast, it's called The Village

24:45

that Came Back from the Dead.

24:48

Now, as we've been hearing about Tim

24:50

in Germany, Caroline in Svalbard, next time

24:53

on the climate question when we do

24:55

a news program, we're going to be

24:57

hearing from you, because you're taking a

24:59

boat to Rotterdam, aren't you? This sounds

25:01

like a very boring story, but I

25:03

promise you it's not. So the energy

25:05

system mentioned coal there has made a

25:07

lot of progress in removing fossil fuels,

25:09

but the two sectors that are probably

25:11

struggling the most are aviation and shipping.

25:13

And in fact, in the future, we're

25:15

expecting them to make up the majority

25:17

share of our emissions because we're still

25:19

struggling to move away from the fossil

25:22

fuels we use there. But after many

25:24

years of discussion, we're expecting potentially next

25:26

month, the world's countries to agree to

25:28

put a global tax on a shipping

25:30

fuel. And this could really begin the

25:32

transition of that whole industry away from

25:34

using polluting fuels to run them. So

25:36

I'm going to Rotterdam, the port of

25:38

Rotterdam, one of the largest ports in

25:40

the world, to see what they're doing

25:42

about it. I will look forward to

25:44

hearing all about that. Thank you so

25:46

much, Azmi voyage. I hope you enjoyed

25:49

the show as much as I've enjoyed

25:51

making it. If so please do give

25:53

us a like, a follow or... rating,

25:55

five stars wherever you get

25:57

your podcast or

25:59

share it on social

26:01

media. really helps

26:03

us spread the word

26:05

about the climate

26:07

question. The production team

26:09

this week were Simon were Simon Tom Tom

26:11

Neil Churchill and myself, Greya Jackson.

26:13

We'll be back next week, as

26:15

always, with another show. show. see

26:17

you then. you then.