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1:28

right, welcome to the conversation. Great

1:31

guest in studio today, Adam Rean, co-founder

1:33

of Progressive Change Campaign Committee. What are the

1:35

lessons to learn from this election? Cuz a

1:38

lot of people are going in what I

1:40

think is the wrong direction. What is the

1:42

correct decision? That's the conversation we're gonna have

1:44

here. So Adam, I got your polling that

1:46

your group helped to do. And I think

1:49

that's super instructional. There's some Democrats

1:51

you think are going in the right direction. Let's

1:53

start with the basics. What do

1:55

you think went wrong in the election? Yeah, well,

1:58

two things. First, you'll hate me. saying

2:00

this, but you've been right for about a decade when

2:02

it comes to corporate money at our party in politics.

2:05

No, don't Adam, don't. One

2:08

thing is that the message does matter. We need

2:10

to be squarely on the side of everyday working

2:12

people against corporate elites, and that message gets shaved

2:14

down as we're campaigning with people like Mark Cuban

2:16

and other billionaires. So

2:19

we can have a whole conversation about that. The second

2:21

thing that really has been one of my main

2:23

takeaways and kind of a change of approach for

2:25

me since the election is that

2:27

the messenger matters as much or

2:29

more than the message. And what I

2:31

mean by that is I think Kamala in

2:34

her gut was really good on

2:36

the abortion issue, right? Some

2:38

prosecution issues, democracy issue was

2:40

fine. She wasn't like a Jamie Raskin amazing, but

2:43

on economics, that wasn't really her thing. And

2:46

she was the wrong candidate at this moment,

2:48

and therefore it wasn't in her nature to

2:50

go harder against corporate power or against corporate

2:52

price gouging or for working people's issues. And

2:55

what shocked me was that she flew to

2:57

Texas to underscore her position on

3:00

abortion. She went to the ellipse to underscore

3:02

her position on democracy. What

3:04

image, what moment was there to

3:06

create clash against corporate interests? Nothing.

3:09

Yeah, so I totally agree with you on the

3:11

policies and the strategy. I'm gonna challenge you a

3:13

little bit on the supposition that it

3:15

was the messenger and in an ironic way. But

3:18

we'll get back to that, but let's stay on

3:20

the message of what works and doesn't work. So

3:22

Chris Murphy came out after the election was over

3:24

and said some good things like, hey, I think

3:26

maybe Bernie was right. Maybe we should

3:28

have gone in a more populous direction, etc. And

3:31

he polled Connecticut. And so

3:33

this is interesting findings. Let's go to first graphic.

3:36

Most of the respondents, 82% either strongly

3:38

or somewhat agree that one of the

3:41

biggest problems facing America today is that

3:43

a handful of corporations and

3:45

economic elites have too much power

3:47

and the government is doing too

3:49

little about it. 7

3:52

in 10 Republicans, 92% of

3:54

Democrats, and 81% of

3:56

independents agreed with the state. So

3:59

Adam, to your point. I mean, yes, we've

4:01

been saying that on the Young Turks for

4:03

forever, as long as we've been around. And

4:06

I didn't think it was complicated, I thought it was

4:08

super obvious. But

4:11

when you look at polls like this, it is

4:13

super obvious that they never poll it, or

4:15

they polled it and they were like, yeah,

4:18

but that's awkward because all of our donors

4:20

are corporations and corporate executives. So even though

4:22

this is obvious to us, we're gonna bury

4:24

it and not do the most obvious thing.

4:28

Which one do you think it was? It's the latter. And

4:30

again, you've been right about this. I

4:32

mean, when your donors are the wealthy

4:34

elites, it's harder to combat those

4:36

elites, right? Last time I saw you was at the

4:38

Democratic Convention. And that was about a week

4:40

and a half after Kamala gave her a big speech against corporate

4:43

price gouging. Something that we had been advocating that

4:45

she do for a long time. And

4:48

I felt it at the convention as donors

4:50

told me, that's like a cultural attack

4:52

on us. They made it

4:54

akin to when Barack Obama called Wall Street

4:56

people fat cats. They saw the

4:59

idea of somebody price gouging to be an

5:01

affront to anybody involved in corporate CEO

5:03

culture. And she didn't

5:05

talk about it in her convention speech. She eventually got

5:07

it back into teleprompter. But she

5:09

really didn't, she trimmed her sales and

5:12

it wasn't a priority. And the thing is, if

5:14

it was a Bernie, if it was an Elizabeth Warren and her

5:16

campaign people said, oh, this could be one line in a 20

5:18

minute speech, they'd be like, what are you talking about? I

5:21

want a rail against corporate elites, right? It wasn't in her

5:23

gut. So this is why I will double down on my

5:25

proposition that the messenger matters, that the

5:27

person matters what's in the gut, the

5:30

impacts, what they say, what they demand their

5:32

campaign staff do in terms of lighting up

5:34

to have clashes. And she

5:36

just didn't didn't have it to know the polling is

5:38

clear. One thing that's been encouraging since the election is

5:41

some people who don't necessarily where the

5:43

progressive banner have been coming out and

5:45

saying, it's about the elites

5:47

versus everyday people. Pat Ryan, who just want

5:50

a really close upstate New York seat said

5:52

anybody who's talking about progressive or moderate, that's

5:54

a fake fight. It's about the elites, the

5:56

corporate elites versus the people. Similarly, Chris Murray.

5:58

Jared Golden, Marie Luz and Camp Perez, some

6:01

people who I think really represent more of

6:03

the future than the past. The question is,

6:05

will the current leadership listen to them? Yeah,

6:08

so I'll give you the Pat Ryan quotes you're talking

6:10

about cuz we have the missed graphics and then I

6:12

wanna challenge you on it. So

6:14

he wrote, first and foremost, if you're

6:16

using the words moderate or progressive, you're

6:19

missing the whole effing point. It's not

6:21

ideological, it's about who fights for

6:23

the people versus who further empowers and

6:25

enables the elites. Couldn't agree more there.

6:28

And he said, I called on Biden to step down and gave

6:30

him hell for failing to secure the border. That

6:33

doesn't make me a moderate. I campaigned with

6:35

AOC and called up big corporations for screwing

6:37

us over. That doesn't make me a progressive.

6:40

And then last one here, I put affordability front

6:42

and center every day. Most importantly, I told folks

6:44

exactly what was that was ripping them off and

6:47

I grounded it locally. It's the

6:49

billionaires and big corporations making record breaking

6:51

profits while the rest of us struggle. So

6:54

now, why is that disagreement? Cuz everything he

6:56

just said there, I totally and utterly agree

6:58

with, including the effing part,

7:01

right? So Adam,

7:03

I don't believe them. So maybe

7:06

I can get to a point where I

7:09

believe Pat Ryan or Chris Murphy, the guys who've

7:11

been out there the most, Jared Golden and Settle,

7:13

maybe, maybe. But I don't think

7:15

that Kamala Harris has these things in

7:17

her bones. And then,

7:20

but she didn't have that in her bones. I

7:22

believe she's a corporate robot. And

7:24

I believe that almost all of them are corporate robots. And

7:27

so they were never going to do it because it's

7:30

not in their nature to do it. So

7:33

it's not like, if we programmed her better,

7:35

she would have done it. Even

7:38

if she had delivered the message perfectly on the

7:40

campaign trail, the minute she won, she wouldn't have

7:42

done it. Look, I think you're going with me,

7:45

right? Look, I spent some time on the ground

7:47

in Omaha, Nebraska and got to bear witness to

7:49

Dan Osborne, the independent mechanic who ran

7:51

for Senate there. This

7:53

guy drips, he oozes, gut

7:56

level, economic populism raging against the

7:58

corporate machine, Kamala

8:01

doesn't have that. There's no way you can program

8:03

her to summon

8:06

up the argument or do it authentically. That's

8:08

why I'm saying it's a, one

8:10

of the things I'm doing to cope with this election is

8:13

focusing more on just a few

8:15

people who get it and try to make them more

8:17

influential and powerful. I don't think we can solve the

8:19

Democratic Party problem in two years, maybe not four years,

8:21

maybe not a decade, but there are some people out

8:23

there who get it and that's what we have to

8:25

work with. So I'm agreeing with you. I

8:27

think there was any sequence of events

8:29

by which Kamala would be an authentic messenger on

8:32

economic populism. So okay, but if we're

8:34

being honest, okay, then that's fine. Then

8:37

we do agree on that, but then aren't

8:39

we eliminating 98% of the Democratic

8:41

Party? I mean, they're all corporate robots,

8:43

almost all, right? And

8:46

the reason they're corporate robots is not an

8:48

accident. They didn't get picked out of a

8:51

hat and oh my God, oh, another corporate

8:53

robot. What an unbelievable coincidence, right? No, cuz

8:55

they get funded to be corporate robots. So

8:58

the system itself is broken and

9:01

Democratic leadership will never, ever

9:03

agree that it's broken. So my

9:07

theory of the case and of

9:09

change isn't hey, let's find

9:12

one of these corporate robots and maybe they could

9:14

deliver the message well. Or maybe

9:16

someone is half a robot and half not a

9:18

robot. My message is break

9:20

the goddamn wheel. Find one person in

9:22

a primary that actually means it, that

9:25

actually means it. Have them win and

9:27

change the entire party. Yeah,

9:29

I'm completely agreeing with you. That's

9:31

why I know you're, you've bet before, I've seen you

9:34

in Vegas. From time to time. I'm putting my chips

9:36

on a few people, not the entire Democratic Party these

9:38

days. And again, there's a lot of people who after

9:40

the election say, see, I was right all along. I'm

9:42

actually saying I have a little bit of a different

9:45

approach. I spent so much of my last year going

9:47

to the White House, showing them polling, going to the

9:50

Biden and Harris campaign, showing them polling and trying to

9:52

get the right words in these people's teleprompters. And my

9:54

new phrase is it has to be from the gut,

9:56

not from the teleprompter, right? And that means we have

9:58

to eliminate a lot of. Democrats that we're getting behind.

10:01

I'm not content anymore to just be

10:03

like, you kind of eked out the right words once in a

10:05

speech and put it on your mail piece, your direct mail piece.

10:07

It has to be from the gun. That's why I love Dan

10:09

Osborn. Well, let's just talk like

10:11

Jared Golden and Marie Gluson-Camperez are the two

10:14

co-chairs of the Blue Dogs. This

10:16

used to be- Yeah, that is weird. It's

10:18

weird. Blue Dogs are conservative, so you saying that

10:20

they're doing the right thing, that's throwing me for a loop. Right,

10:23

so let's shake the Etch-a-Sketch for a second.

10:26

So their through line has been they want to balance the budget.

10:29

It used to be a bunch of old southern, you know,

10:31

old boys club people. They're like, oh, let's

10:33

balance the budget by cutting food stamps and cutting this and

10:35

cutting that. It was very antithetical to a lot

10:37

of progressive things. I was at

10:40

an event this week, this year with red

10:42

to blue house candidates, the most competitive house

10:44

candidates, talking to a candidate

10:46

about taxing the rich more. And

10:49

who comes over Marie Gluson-Camperez? And

10:51

she interjects herself and she goes, tax

10:54

the rich to balance the budget. That's the new Blue

10:56

Dogs. And I was like, what? Right?

10:58

And actually, I'm fairly close with Jared Golden. I've heard him

11:00

say that a lot, but I just thought he was a

11:02

quirky dude. I didn't realize this was the new Blue Dogs.

11:05

So I'm like, say more. And we're talking and she's like,

11:08

anti-monopoly, that's the future. I'm like, what is

11:10

going on here? Right? And,

11:12

you know, she and her husband run a

11:14

tractor repair business. And they hate

11:17

these big monopolies saying you don't have a right

11:19

to repair your own tractor. Right? Like,

11:21

she is blue collar, her husband's blue collar. She

11:23

and Jared Golden are both in their 30s. Right?

11:27

They're young Turks, to some extent. Right?

11:30

Like, they're not... She

11:32

got elected last cycle. He got elected a

11:34

couple cycles ago. They're new to the system.

11:36

They hate the system. And there's only a

11:38

few of them. Chris DeLuzio wins a very

11:41

competitive Pittsburgh seat. He matched Kamala's

11:43

performance in the blue part of his district

11:45

and he crushed her, outperformed her in the

11:47

red part because he speaks this working class

11:50

message. So again, there's only several. I agree.

11:52

But I agree with you. Put

11:54

our chips on them. Call

11:56

out... Discern between the real thing and the

11:58

fake thing. And hopefully, eventually

12:01

we can break the system. So you

12:03

mentioned something there that I wanna touch on, and I'll

12:05

come back to the candidates in

12:08

a minute. You said, we showed them

12:10

this polling and I'm curious how they

12:12

reacted. Because at least you're getting in

12:14

the door and having these conversations. We're

12:17

such a persona non go out of

12:19

populist. That they're like, listening to a

12:22

populist. No way

12:24

is the reaction I've gotten my entire

12:26

career from Democratic leadership. And

12:29

that's why I'm on the lookout for frauds.

12:31

Because all of a sudden that Pat Ryan

12:33

cursing in the tweet, right? And

12:36

now I heard that Gavin Newsom

12:38

was traveling passenger or whatever, you

12:41

have a coach, right? So

12:43

the actors are starting to change the script.

12:46

And it's annoying me, so I don't really

12:48

believe them. But okay, let's talk about-

12:50

Just pause for one second. Anybody out there who's

12:52

thinking, I love Gavin Newsom, no. He

12:54

is not a presidential nominee in four years.

12:56

Maybe Pritzker the billionaire is not a nominee.

12:58

We just need to be content to rule

13:00

them out and not even entertain the notion.

13:02

Pete Buttigieg, okay, so anyways.

13:06

So I wanna quote the polling that you

13:08

commissioned with data for progress,

13:10

because it's super instructive. Let's go

13:12

to graphic seven here. Our polling

13:15

finds that Pennsylvania independents were 18

13:17

points more enthusiastic to vote for

13:19

Harris when campaigning on economic issues.

13:22

And seven points less enthusiastic to

13:24

vote for Harris when campaigning with

13:26

Cheney, a swing of 25 points.

13:31

And Michigan is the same Michigan independents

13:33

were 11 points more enthusiastic to vote

13:35

for Harris when campaigning on economic issues.

13:37

Seven points less enthusiastic when campaigning with

13:39

Cheney, a swing of 18 points. In

13:42

both states, 70% of voters

13:44

said Harris campaigning with

13:47

Cheney either had no impact on

13:49

their enthusiasm or made them less

13:51

enthusiastic. So I can go

13:53

into the rest about how the Democratic

13:56

base agreed even more with that sentiment

13:58

than independents did, right? So

14:00

did they know this kind of polling

14:03

and they walked off the cliff on

14:05

purpose anyway? Or what was their theory

14:07

of the case to ignore these obvious

14:09

and overwhelming polls? So two things, first,

14:11

as you know, Quentin

14:13

Folks, the deputy campaign manager of the

14:16

campaign was on PodSafe America. And

14:18

one thing he said when asked about their tepid

14:20

response to Trump attacks was, we tested

14:22

all this. And it turns out that just diving

14:25

into our core message performed better than responding

14:27

to what they were saying about trans bathroom

14:29

stuff, crime, immigration. So we just went with

14:31

our core message. Okay, if that's their approach,

14:34

why didn't they do this? Because

14:36

we tested their core message supposedly

14:38

on economics versus Liz Cheney and look

14:41

at that 25 points better, right? So

14:44

that's just incompetent if they didn't test it, right?

14:47

One thing that I was really peeved

14:49

about to its understatement was

14:51

that they actually put a lot of money behind

14:53

messaging that we were recommending in their ads. There

14:56

was actually a billion dollars worth of ads

14:58

between the Harris campaign and their line super

15:01

PAC on things like corporate price gouging, taxing

15:03

billionaires, saving Social Security. That was

15:05

almost absent from the earned media side of the

15:07

campaign. And when I poked around and

15:09

asked about this, it was like different sets of

15:11

actors with different incentives. And for some reason, I

15:13

have yet to get to the bottom of this

15:15

and hopefully someday and you someday get the answer.

15:17

But who made the decision to

15:20

go all in on Cheney stuff and

15:22

to have zero clash on economic corporate

15:24

accountability stuff? I don't know, but I

15:26

think I'm currently chocking up to incompetence

15:28

more than that being evil, but I'm

15:31

open to it. Yeah, yeah, no, I don't look, I don't

15:34

think it's evil, but like this

15:36

and those are two separate things that wind

15:38

up hurting them because they chose the wrong

15:40

path and emphasize the wrong path at the

15:42

expense of the correct path, right? But

15:45

on the Cheney stuff, I don't know what

15:47

in the world stuff made them think that

15:49

other than the Democratic consultants always for the

15:51

last, you and I have been talking about

15:54

this for 20 years, brother, right? Stop trying

15:56

to be Republican light. It never, ever works.

15:58

It never works. Hillary Clinton. got 7% of

16:01

the Republican vote, Joe Biden got 6%, and

16:03

Kamala Harris got 5%. It's

16:05

an obvious loser strategy for

16:07

total and utter losers. So

16:10

I think that it's probably groupthink on that,

16:12

would you be more Republican, be more Dick

16:14

Cheney? If you left office at

16:17

13% approval rating, I mean, it's just comically

16:19

incompetent. But on the economic stuff, I

16:22

don't think it's incompetence. It

16:24

looks like from what people are saying

16:26

about the campaign, that Tony West, her

16:29

brother in law, who's the Uber executive,

16:31

convinced her, no, you should kiss corporate

16:33

ass. And that that's a

16:35

genius idea, cuz this price gouging thing

16:37

has unsettled all my corporate friends. And

16:40

so you wanna make sure that those corporate guys

16:42

give you so much money, and you'll just automatically

16:44

win the election if you raise more money. And

16:47

by the way, Hillary Clinton, today,

16:50

still afterwards, Joy Reid on

16:52

MSNBC and so many others saying, what do you

16:54

mean she ran a flawless campaign? She raised a

16:56

billion dollars. Is she still saying that? She

16:59

said she even got Queen Latifah's endorsement,

17:01

and nobody gets Queen Latifah's endorsement. She

17:04

ran a perfect campaign. Okay. Perfect

17:07

campaign does not lead to a

17:09

loss. Yeah. Because they've got

17:11

money on the brain. So

17:13

is it just groupthink? Because

17:16

everyone in Washington is, in my terminology, corrupt,

17:18

right? In their terminology, hooked on money, even

17:20

though it's in the polite way of saying

17:22

it, right? Or

17:26

is it that they literally think, who cares? I'm gonna take

17:28

15% of how much we raise. So

17:30

the more money I raise from these corporate goons, the

17:32

more money I make as a consultant. And

17:35

so who cares if we win or lose as long

17:37

as I cash in an extra couple of million dollars?

17:40

So there's several things you hit on there. And

17:42

weirdly, I will defend the ad strategy. Because

17:45

it was so on the messaging that

17:47

we know is effective. Like what? What

17:50

I just said. A billion dollars was

17:52

spent on things around corporate price gouging,

17:54

taxing billionaires, and Social

17:56

Security, more than immigration, abortion, crime,

17:58

democracy combined, right? What

18:00

to me says incompetent is that

18:02

did not match their earned media

18:05

strategy. Whoever says there's a perfect

18:07

campaign, answer the question. Why was

18:09

what she did day to day different from what

18:11

her ads did day to day? That's

18:14

two different theories of the case on how to win the election. And

18:16

I'm saying the economic thing was the way to go. So

18:18

again, one can talk about the percent of the

18:21

buy and stuff like that and maybe there's some

18:23

corruption and self-dealing there. I

18:26

can send you a

18:28

Google Doc with over 100 pages of screenshots

18:30

of their ads which were amazing and more

18:32

than we ever would have banked on. On

18:35

a staff level, to me, it is incompetent before

18:38

you even get to the Tony West and the

18:40

combo of messenger thing to not put her in

18:42

position to even fake the fight, right?

18:44

Donald Trump is showing up at a McDonald's. Donald Trump

18:46

showed up in 2016 at a carrier plant pretending they

18:49

really cared about jobs being outsourced as he gave tax

18:51

cuts to the same companies, right? At least he was

18:53

pretending. That's good staff work at least, right? There was

18:55

not one instant, I would argue there should have been

18:57

at least a weekly instance of show up in front

19:00

of the billionaire's office. If that's your

19:02

message on TV, show up in front of the office. Show

19:04

up in front of a corporate price gouger's office and call

19:06

out a corporation. That would send a signal that you actually

19:08

get it. But they pulled that punch on

19:10

the earned media side of things. Now what

19:12

I'm saying as a next level is if

19:15

Bernie or Elizabeth Warren or someone like that,

19:17

Greg Kazar from Texas, if they

19:19

were being told by staff, we're not gonna talk about

19:21

the economics at all or create clash with corporations at

19:23

all. They'd say, show me a

19:25

new schedule. This is not sufficient. And

19:27

that's where Tony West going in her ear and

19:29

her not being a gut level populist come into

19:31

play. So it's a combination of, I

19:33

think, incompetence and the gut level thing I talked

19:35

about before. Yeah, so I hear you. But

19:38

if they, so like the idea of a

19:40

Democratic candidate going to

19:42

a corporate office and leading the

19:44

fight against them, like

19:47

an establishment Democrat, it's impossible.

19:51

They would never do it. It goes against every

19:53

fiber of their being, which is serve corporate rules,

19:55

serve the billionaire class, serve the donor class. So

19:57

I'll ask you, if Sean Fain, the UAW, leader

20:00

was the nominee, do you think

20:02

he would do it? Yes. Right,

20:05

okay, if Bernie was, would he do it? Yes.

20:07

Would Elizabeth Warren do it? Halfway. Likely.

20:10

Okay, yeah, likely. She'd be open to that,

20:12

yeah. Right? She certainly would

20:14

be, yes. So that's what, would Dan Osborne do it?

20:16

Right, I mean he led a strike on his own

20:19

company in the middle of COVID for months.

20:22

That's why it has to be gut level. That's

20:24

why he needed it all. Adam, all

20:27

right, last thing here, because, so there's

20:29

actually two last things. One is, I'm

20:31

afraid that we're gonna get tricked again.

20:34

And what particularly haunts me

20:37

is Fetterman, right? So

20:41

guys gonna come in and he's gonna wear

20:43

a flannel shirt and sweatshirts and he's gonna

20:45

go and protest in front of a corporation and

20:47

he's got the new script

20:49

ready, right? And then when he

20:51

gets in office, he's gonna say, ha ha ha, just

20:53

kidding, man. The donors help to come up with this

20:55

script and we tricked you and then you're not gonna

20:58

get any paid family leave. You're not gonna get higher

21:00

minimum wage. You're not gonna get any healthcare, ha ha

21:02

ha. Like I'm so, they're so

21:04

like accidentally comic book

21:06

evil that it's hard to trust any of

21:08

these guys. You see what I'm saying? So

21:10

okay, let me turn it into a productive

21:13

question, which is how? How do we find

21:15

a guy who's not an actor and who

21:17

actually means it? Well,

21:21

I think finding people who are mad at the current

21:23

leadership and the current machine now is a pretty good

21:25

start, right? So back to

21:27

Jared Golden for Maine, right? He wins a very rural district

21:29

in Maine. There were 10 Democrats

21:31

that opposed Joe Biden's Build Back Better agenda.

21:34

Nine of them opposed it because they wanted more

21:36

tax breaks for Wall Street, less accountability for pharma,

21:38

right? Jared Golden was like, that's not why I'm

21:40

doing it. I want, there's this salt

21:42

tax, kind of wonky, but is a giant giveaway

21:44

to rich people. There's too many giveaways

21:46

to Wall Street. I cannot go back to my working

21:49

class district and defend these tax cuts for corporations. He

21:51

did it when it was a really unpopular thing to

21:53

do and he accidentally got lumped in with the Josh

21:55

Gogheimers and other Wall Street Democrats of the world. That

21:58

to me says it's in his gut, right? Not faking it.

22:01

Well, that's not bad, okay. Yeah, yeah, Marie-Claire's in Canada,

22:03

same thing. Again, there's several out there. I'm granting your

22:05

point. There's a handful. We need to put

22:07

our chips behind them. Okay, I hear

22:09

you on that. And the last thing is,

22:11

look, when we go to back those folks

22:13

in a primary, our

22:16

number one enemy, if we're being honest,

22:18

is mainstream media. So

22:20

mainstream media always hates the progressive,

22:22

the populist, etc., and the race.

22:24

They always say there are no

22:26

chance of winning. Only

22:28

the beloved establishment candidate can

22:31

win, and anyone who defies the

22:33

establishment anointed candidate is evil and

22:35

secretly helping Trump and the fascist,

22:37

etc. So what's

22:40

our battle plan for defeating our number

22:42

one enemy, who which the Democratic Party

22:44

actually loves, which is mainstream media? Do

22:50

it stealthily until it's time to strike.

22:53

That's the honest answer. We'll build the power and

22:55

influence of several people, and then

22:57

they make a move. All right, I

22:59

think you did something very admirable. I

23:02

mean, look, you called it. Biden was not the

23:04

right candidate. You called it. You, Cenk, was

23:06

right. Hashtag, put it out there. Right,

23:08

right. Mary Ann Williamson, I'm

23:10

not gonna say as many positive things about, but

23:12

if you were gonna

23:14

grant her instinct, okay, that

23:18

it can't be that far

23:20

down the ladder of being

23:22

in the club,

23:25

to use your words, right? There

23:28

are people right now who are in the club. They're

23:30

not senior members of the club yet, but they're

23:32

credible members of the club. And that's why it's

23:34

like, all right, well, let's use resources we have

23:36

to build our power in the club, and then

23:39

do the switcheroo. I probably shouldn't even be

23:41

saying that, but they don't want you to

23:43

say it. Don't say who it is. I mean, I'm gonna

23:45

lower this to MSNBC executives, right? So

23:47

look, I hope that that plan works, and

23:49

we're gonna attack that club from the outside

23:52

as often and as aggressively

23:54

as we possibly can, because the

23:56

problem is the club. So right

23:58

now, they're having conversations. on MSNBC and

24:00

CNN about what went wrong except everyone that's

24:02

in that

24:05

conversation is in the club. And

24:07

the answer is the problem was the

24:09

club. So like in discussing with a

24:11

bunch of club members what went

24:13

wrong when you guys are the answer kind of

24:17

ironic and ridiculous. So

24:19

they certainly no one on television gets

24:21

it yet. I've never seen anyone on

24:23

television ever understand this. So we'll

24:25

see if there's some secret agents

24:27

that can actually sneak on a rational

24:29

objective message on the TV. But

24:32

isn't it hilarious that we have

24:35

to have people who are rational sneak into

24:37

television? Otherwise they're never

24:39

going to work. It is. And here's one

24:41

thing that's really important for your viewers to

24:43

keep in mind. Part of the problem that our

24:45

organization which has been around for a decade and

24:48

a half now has had in Democratic primaries is

24:50

that good people, bold progressives,

24:52

TYT members when they're voting in

24:54

primaries accidentally sometimes fall in love

24:56

with the wrong people. And

24:58

we can't rely on them to be reliable

25:01

primary voters for the clear

25:03

populist progressive in the race, right? I heard from people

25:05

on the ground when Elizabeth Warren was first running against

25:07

corporate Democrats just to be in the Senate. People are

25:09

like, but I love this local town council person who

25:12

or state senator who's been in there for 20 years.

25:14

It's like, and they're like, are

25:16

less than their Bernie supporters. What are you doing

25:18

locally? So I think if you agree with the

25:20

stuff being talked about here, let's

25:22

keep this ember alive, keep the fire alive

25:24

and remember this when it comes time to

25:27

choose in 2026 for primaries in

25:29

2028 for the big primary. And again, if

25:31

you're like, but I love Gavin Newsom, challenge yourself

25:33

to get that out of your mind because we're

25:35

not going to take on the system and win.

25:37

We're not going to have gut level populism from

25:40

someone like that. That's what

25:42

we can do right now to not just be mad

25:44

or sad. Like let's commit ourselves right now

25:46

to actually being part of the solution. You're

25:49

basically saying remember, remember the 5th

25:51

of November. Wow. And

25:54

that is a good one to live by. And I'm saying the same thing

25:56

as Adam, primaries are everything.

25:59

If we don't win in the primary,

26:01

we're gonna just repeat this endless cycle

26:03

of losing to Republicans cuz the corporate

26:05

Democrats are trying to be like the

26:07

Republicans. And that is the world's worst

26:09

strategy. We've done it 200 times. We've

26:13

gotta learn our lessons from those

26:15

failures and pick an actual economic

26:17

populace that the country loves. And

26:19

that way we can win both

26:21

within the Democratic Party and most

26:23

importantly win the general election. All

26:26

right, everybody check out Progressive Change Campaign

26:28

Committee. boldprogressives.org. I've

26:31

always loved that URL. boldprogressives.org.

26:34

Exactly right, Adam Green. As always, thank you for joining

26:36

me, brother. Appreciate it. Good to see you. All right,

26:38

we'll see you. It's

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