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stories.

0:28

From New York Times, I'm Michael Bolvaro.

0:31

This is a daily.

0:39

With the supreme court now poised

0:41

to overturn Roe versus Wade,

0:44

we revisit part two of

0:46

a series that first ran in twenty

0:48

eighteen about the history

0:50

of that case. Today,

0:53

Sabrina Tavernier explains how

0:56

the nineteen seventy three

0:57

ruling, which initially triggered

1:00

little controversy, eventually

1:02

became one of the most overrising

1:05

decisions of our time. It's

1:14

Saturday, May seventh. We

1:22

wanna have some control over the decisions

1:24

that are

1:24

Alright. Will you please sit down or be removed

1:27

fully? You're gonna sit down.

1:28

Why don't you give us some

1:29

solid answers to our questions? Really

1:31

You're gonna take women. You're gonna drag women out

1:33

of this hearing whose lives are at stake. That's

1:35

a fine way to run something.

1:38

Wait. Tonight, he

1:40

can't the greatest

1:43

new force in politics

1:45

for basic political and social

1:47

change of the seventies and the

1:50

greatest such floors perhaps this

1:52

nation has ever seen what we're saying.

1:54

The women have a fundamental right to control

1:57

their own bodies and to control their around

1:59

life.

2:08

2 issue really becomes a lightning rod.

2:10

It's really out there on the national

2:13

stage at this point. And

2:15

it's an issue that's noticed by

2:18

a political operative in Washington named

2:20

Paul Wirerick.

2:21

God gave us

2:24

a purpose. God

2:26

put us here for some reason. Everything

2:29

that we do here is aimed

2:31

at the next world or ought not to be

2:33

done. He's a Republican. He's

2:35

a conservative Catholic from Wisconsin.

2:38

And he's really associated with a lot of

2:40

the beginnings of the new rite in the nineteen

2:42

sixties and seventies. He is

2:45

really frustrated that the only think

2:48

tanks in Washington are these very

2:50

liberal ones like brookings, So

2:52

he goes around really forming

2:54

the kind of ideas and intellectual

2:58

groundwork for what would

3:00

become the conservative movement. With

3:03

money from the Coors family,

3:05

that's the beer guys, he starts the heritage

3:07

foundation. He does

3:09

training for many conservatives we

3:11

now know today. New Cambridge was somebody

3:14

who had training from him. So

3:17

he knows that there's this vast untapped

3:21

resource, really the only one left

3:23

in the voting public. And that

3:25

is evangelical. And

3:29

he spent a lot of time thinking how to

3:32

involve them in politics. These people

3:34

are protestants. They're quite religious.

3:37

They have conservative values. And

3:39

they didn't really take part in politics.

3:41

Very much. They may have voted, but they weren't an

3:44

organized political block. And

3:46

he wants to change

3:47

that. Mhmm. We have encountered sling

3:49

with some of the pastors on how

3:51

the mechanics of of voter

3:53

registration and how whether or not they can do it in

3:55

their church, what they can't, how they can do it.

3:57

So the that one means to reach those

4:00

is through the the

4:01

churches. He

4:02

tries a lot of things. He takes on issues

4:04

like pornography, he tries

4:06

to get them interested in fired up

4:08

over different issues, and nothing really seems

4:10

to work. But

4:16

in the late nineteen seventies, something

4:19

happens that changes

4:21

things. It

4:24

takes hold in the evangelical community and

4:26

really, really electrifies it.

4:30

The IRS starts to revoke tax

4:32

exempt status for church

4:34

run Christian schools all

4:37

over the south. 2

4:39

these are schools that kind of sprung up After

4:42

desegregation started, they're

4:44

run by churches and they're

4:46

sort of nicknamed segregation academies.

4:51

Pushing and pushing and now they want

4:53

in. Well, they ain't gonna come

4:55

in. We got

4:56

alright. Damn. Not here,

4:59

not now, not ever.

5:02

Ain't gonna be in my grandson's class.

5:05

Not here they

5:06

ain't. And who's gonna stop? You

5:08

all talk so fine. Never. Never.

5:11

Never.

5:12

BUT IT'S NOW IN THERE,

5:14

HERE. Reporter: THERE ARE PLACES THAT

5:17

FAMILIES IN CONGREGENCE OF EVEN

5:19

JOK churches in the south start to send their

5:21

kids once desegregation starts. So

5:25

these schools were a way for Christian families to essentially

5:27

maintain segregation. Essentially, yes.

5:30

And that's why the IRS was going after them.

5:32

Basically, the IRS tells them, look, if you're

5:35

gonna discriminate on this is a phrase, you

5:37

really can't have tax exempt status, so

5:39

we're 2 change things. And

5:41

this is kind of like a real

5:44

wake up call for evangelicals. And they've

5:46

been a pretty insular

5:47

community, not really taking part in

5:49

politics. It's time now for the

5:51

old time gospel hour with Jerry

5:54

Forwell, pastor of the Thomas Road

5:56

Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia.

5:59

We are not ashamed of the gospel of

6:01

Christ or does the power of God

6:04

2 salvation? They've tried to wall themselves

6:06

off from the outside culture, which they see

6:08

as of in various stages

6:10

of decay, and

6:13

this federal government intervention

6:15

really shakes them.

6:17

If we expect for this country to

6:19

survive, to continue

6:21

as a healthy nation and a leader,

6:24

the leader in the family of nations. We

6:27

must now step up our efforts to

6:29

return this country to moral

6:30

sanity. We must do it

6:33

WITH ALL THE Energies WE HAVE. YOU

6:37

HAVE JARY FALL WELL WHO IS TALKING

6:39

ABOUT IT AND SPEECHERS AROUND THE COUNTRY Jim

6:42

Baker and Pat Robertson, two evangelical

6:44

preachers, bring school activists

6:47

onto their television shows. It's really

6:49

making a big splash. I am

6:51

convinced

6:53

that

6:53

no matter how much heat we take, we are

6:55

right. We

6:57

are absolutely right.

7:04

So why Rick sees this? And he feels like

7:06

fall well and evangelicals are

7:09

the key to this.

7:13

So he meets with Volvo in nineteen seventy

7:16

nine and basically tells

7:18

him that there's a moral majority

7:20

out there on our side.

7:22

And then my friends, we will truly

7:24

see A MORAL MAJORITY IN

7:26

AMERICA. THANK God

7:27

bless. Reporter: AND THE ACCOUNT THAT MANY

7:30

PEOPLE HAVE IS THAT FALLOW SAYS

7:32

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING

7:34

TO CALL THIS thing. And they actually

7:36

found something a formal organization

7:39

called the moral majority in nineteen seventy nine.

7:41

It's going to be the organizing center

7:46

of bringing evangelicals into the political

7:48

system, of organizing them, of getting them

7:50

out there and voting.

7:52

During the nineteen eighties creatures, we

7:54

have a three full primary responsibility.

7:56

Number one, get people

7:57

saved. Number two, get them baptized. Number three,

8:00

get them registered to vote. 2

8:02

when the school issue really brings

8:05

evangelicals out of their slumber, kind

8:07

of electrifies them

8:09

politically, ABORTIONOUS, HE

8:11

PUTS RIGHT AT THE TOP OF THE LIST WHEN HE MEES WITH

8:13

ALL WELL. Reporter: IS IT WRONG TO

8:15

SPEAK FROM THE POP! AT ABOUT MAURAL AND SOCIALIATION?

8:18

Now the Liberal Preachers had never had problem

8:20

with

8:20

that.

8:20

He thinks it's the one thing that can really unite

8:23

Catholics and Protestants. We

8:26

feel today that we are

8:28

participating in the

8:31

murder of the unborn to vote for

8:33

anyone. Who is not

8:36

totally opposed

8:38

to this biological holocaust. This

8:40

is the issue that really can make.

8:43

A real difference in the American political system

8:46

in favor of conservatives. If

8:49

you and I were allowed to

8:51

write the blueprint, For

8:54

America, for the remainder of the twentieth

8:56

century, what would be that manifesto?

8:59

What would be that vision? Right

9:02

at the top of the list, and

9:04

I believe it's God's priority as well. We

9:07

would have to return America to

9:10

respect for the dignity of human life.

9:13

It must be the front burner

9:15

item in everything that we're doing.

9:19

I'm speaking of abortion. And

9:23

if I could get a

9:25

modification of Roe v Wade that

9:27

stopped all the convenience of

9:29

worshipers. I'd be willing

9:32

to do that, and

9:34

the feminists don't like that.

9:38

So 2 things are going on here.

9:41

The feminist movement is taking

9:43

up abortion as an issue of women's

9:45

rights. And at the same time, the evangelical

9:48

movement is taking up abortion

9:50

as an issue of restoring

9:52

morality that they think has been lost. In

9:54

a country. Right. These

9:57

two movements are kind of curdling toward each

9:59

other. And in a process, That

10:02

is forging our modern political

10:04

landscape. But you have whyrick,

10:06

really the visionary here, making the argument

10:09

that abortion is going to be the

10:11

big uniting

10:13

issue. And you have

10:15

a presidential candidate Ronald

10:17

Reagan.

10:18

This is a man whose time has come,

10:21

a strong leader with a proven

10:23

record. Who you remember from nineteen

10:25

sixty seven signed quite a

10:27

liberal abortion bill for the state.

10:30

Understanding that this is a critical

10:33

constituency for him.

10:35

The time is now for strong leadership,

10:38

Reagan, for president. How

10:40

much your consideration are you going to give

10:42

to the advice of these new conservative organizations

10:45

and the moral majority and people like

10:47

the revigerry

10:48

falwell. I am going to

10:50

be open to these people

10:53

and I'm

10:54

going to He buys what Weinberg is saying and what Paulo

10:56

is doing. And he starts

10:58

courting evangelicals aggressively. And

11:01

one of the things he's telling them to persuade them is

11:03

that he's against abortion. He thinks it's

11:05

wrong, tells them he really regrets

11:08

his nineteen sixty seven decision

11:10

that Abortion is a big important issue

11:12

for

11:12

him. He's pro life. Abortion. There's

11:15

one individual who's not being considered

11:17

at all. That's the one who's being

11:19

aborted. And

11:21

I've noticed that everybody that is

11:25

for abortion has already been born.

11:29

He's

11:29

unequivocal about it in a way that

11:31

previous Republicans had always hedged.

11:33

It always kind of stepped away

11:35

from

11:37

characterizing it that bluntly, Ronald Reagan

11:39

takes it head on. Is an

11:41

unborn child a human being?

11:43

I happen to believe it is. And

11:53

it works. I

11:58

consider the trust that you have placed

12:00

in me sacred. And

12:03

I give you my sacred oath

12:05

that I will do my utmost to

12:08

justify your faith. You

12:11

and Delta's vote for Ronald Reagan overwhelmingly.

12:15

In the politics there, in the partisan

12:17

politics, there are really the beginning of

12:20

the modern American political system as we understand

12:22

it

12:22

today.

12:23

This is the moment when party affiliations

12:25

starts to

12:26

mean something definitive in the abortion debate.

12:28

Republicans against

12:30

Democrats for exactly.

12:34

After Reagan took office 2 the nineteen

12:36

eighties, abortion really

12:38

became this very hot button issue.

12:40

It was the culture wars. The

12:43

protests and the divisions

12:46

become much worse. And there's

12:48

a very strong movement on the anti abortion

12:50

side. To try to show

12:52

Americans what abortion is,

12:55

to persuade them in a grassroots way.

12:58

And in an effort to do that, They

13:00

made this movie called The Silent Scream.

13:03

It came out in nineteen eighty four, and

13:05

it was trying to show people exactly what

13:07

abortion looked like.

13:10

My name is Bernard and Nathanson.

13:14

I'm a physician practicing obstetrician

13:16

and 2. And

13:19

I think I've had a passing experience

13:22

in matters of abortion. Using

13:24

ultrasound technology that was relatively

13:26

new at time. It's a moving

13:28

picture. It has color. The

13:31

whole story has changed since

13:33

the nineteen seventies. Now

13:36

for the first time, we

13:38

have the technology to

13:41

see abortion

13:43

from the victim's vantage point.

13:45

It

13:45

made a big impression. It really hits

13:48

a nerve. A lot of people wrote

13:50

about it. And Ronald Reagan

13:52

talked about it personally.

13:54

The question of abortion grips our nation.

13:57

Abortion is either the taking of

13:59

a human life or it isn't. And

14:02

if it is and medical technology is

14:04

increasingly showing it is, it

14:06

must be

14:07

stopped. It

14:07

was distributed to every single member of Congress.

14:10

And tonight, I ask you in the congress

14:12

to move this year on legislation

14:15

to protect the

14:16

unborn. Did

14:18

the tactics become much tougher? Recent

14:20

attacks on abortion clinics all over the country

14:22

have prompted the house to open hearings on the

14:24

problem. And the battle lines are really, really

14:27

drawn. The mood in the house hearing room was

14:29

heated today. An angry congresswoman Patricia

14:31

Schroeder lambasted abortion

14:33

foe, Joseph Schindler, I have had

14:35

two children. I have lost two children.

14:37

And it is not an easy thing for me to

14:39

talk

14:39

about. And

14:40

you should be pro life. Instead

14:42

of becoming a My life, sir. But I could

14:44

be in a very threatening situation if I

14:46

were pregnant again. And I resent you're sitting

14:48

there saying to

14:49

me, So why don't just deal with this lightly?

14:51

I

14:51

never shared that.

14:52

Well, you are implying that I mean, you're

14:54

right that you And it's a really

14:56

fraught time in the abortion movement. The

14:58

most celebrated anti abortion protests

15:00

have been abortion clinic bombings. There's

15:02

starting to be a violence against clinics

15:05

today, Schidler, the executive director

15:07

of the pro life action league, defended the

15:09

bombings. No one has been killed or injured

15:11

in the attacks on abortion facilities, but thousands

15:13

of human lives are destroyed inside

15:16

these buildings every day. There

15:18

are murders, doctors while

15:20

standing in his kitchen in Amherst, New

15:22

York. Doctor Slapien was shot

15:24

by a high powered rifle fired

15:27

through his window. Sadly,

15:29

this was not the first such shooting. There

15:32

were others. OVER THE SUMMER,

15:34

ABOUT twenty CLINICS IN

15:35

FLORIDA, LOUISIANA AND

15:38

TEXAS RETACKED WITH

15:40

ASSA. IT'S OUTRAGEOUS somebody can be

15:42

assassinated for something they have the constitutional

15:44

right to do. It's a very risky time

15:46

for people

15:47

in abortion clinics, and Norma

15:49

is there right at the heart of

15:51

we must link arm in arm to

15:53

protect and uphold the right to

15:55

safe and legal abortion. Norma

15:57

is working at an abortion clinic in

15:59

Dallas. And she starts there

16:01

about ten years after row. And

16:04

she works as a telephone operator. She's taking

16:07

calls from women, from all

16:09

over the state. She's also keeping her

16:11

connections to the feminist world.

16:13

She occasionally goes out and speaks

16:16

to hearings in Washington, She

16:18

spent some time in California with a very

16:20

well known feminist lawyer, Gloria

16:22

Alred. She was a poster child.

16:25

But she felt really uncomfortable in that

16:27

world. Howard Bauchner: I'm sorry, Norman, you said

16:29

in passing a moment ago that that you felt

16:31

you had already been used too much.

16:33

Used by whom to order?

16:36

Even though that world wanted to elevate

16:38

her. Well, I I've been shunned

16:40

by quite a few of the national

16:43

leaders in the pro choice movement. To

16:46

me, sometimes I

16:48

I really get this really strong hit that

16:50

people think that I'm just like, I'm totally stupid

16:53

and and I'm not. I mean, I have I've

16:55

got brains and I have ideas

16:58

and I just don't really feel like they hear

17:00

me. She makes

17:02

constant references in her book 2 feeling

17:04

looked down on by them. Feeling

17:06

like they have these elite

17:08

vasser PhD

17:10

educations, and she was a -- I don't really

17:12

feel like that. -- high school dropout. And, I mean,

17:14

don't I'm not that advanced or quality, you know.

17:17

I'm a street kid. I'm an ex alcoholic. I'm

17:19

an ex drug dealer. I'm an ex drug

17:21

addict. You know, so, I mean,

17:23

I wasn't their chosen one

17:25

to be their special Jane Roe. She

17:28

feels that they're embarrassed

17:30

by her. They they

17:33

just never gave me the respect that

17:35

I thought that I deserved.

17:47

So

17:47

even though these people are championing her cause,

17:50

She doesn't feel a piece with them.

17:51

No. She feels very looked down

17:53

on by them. She feels

17:56

used. Let me

17:58

explain to you this other way,

18:00

Ted. And back in nineteen

18:02

sixty nine, I wanted to have an

18:04

abortion. I saved up my rent

18:07

money. I went to an illegal abortion

18:09

clinic here in

18:09

Dallas, Texas. I

18:11

saw the She described a scene meeting

18:14

with coffee, and weddington much

18:16

further into her pregnancy in which they

18:18

told her that it would probably be too late

18:20

for her to actually get an abortion by the time the

18:22

case was decided. And

18:25

she becomes enraged and says, look,

18:27

I 2 have an abortion. That's all I care

18:29

about. And she realizes that

18:32

all along, they've sort of known that probably

18:34

this case would not help her normal

18:36

get an abortion. And she has this

18:38

kind of rant in the book

18:40

about these fancy women who

18:42

all of themselves and their rich friends could have had

18:45

many, many abortions. And that

18:47

was all I wanted.

18:48

Mhmm. That was the reason why she signed

18:50

all of these complicated papers and

18:52

talked to these women at Columbus Pizza

18:54

in Dallas But what actually ends

18:56

up happening is that they go

18:58

on and bring her case

19:01

to the Supreme Court. In

19:03

her mind to their greater glory and

19:06

leave her behind. Then

19:16

something kind of strange happens. There's

19:19

a pastor who moves in next

19:21

door, right next door to the abortion

19:23

clinic where normal works. And

19:26

he's running something called Operation Rescue.

19:29

Are

19:29

you the rescue people?

19:30

You betcha. What's going on this morning? We're

19:33

rescue babies as we love to do.

19:35

Yes. Yes. Because abortion is murdered.

19:37

That's why we do this because abortion

19:40

is murder.

19:41

The group's mantra is if

19:44

you think abortion is killing, that act

19:46

like it. No choice. Come

19:49

to me. No choice. Come

19:51

to me. I'll do

19:53

it. I don't care. I

19:55

DON'T CARE ABOUT WOMEN'S RIGHTS. IT

19:57

HAS QUITE RADICAL BUT LARGELY

19:59

PEACEFUL TACTICS. Protesters

20:06

lying down on the street in front of clinics,

20:09

handcuffing themselves to doors of clinics,

20:11

going limp and having to be carried away by

20:13

police blockading clinics.

20:16

Kind of a new chapter in

20:18

the anti abortion. Strategy.

20:23

What are the chances that this evangelical pastor

20:26

would move right next door to Norma's

20:29

abortion

20:29

clinic? Was that deliberate. 2

20:32

in most places that was deliberate and it

20:34

probably was in this case 2. At

20:36

first she was very angry, and

20:39

couldn't believe that they had the nerve to

20:41

move right next door. But

20:43

within a short period of time, she

20:45

started to become friendly with

20:47

the head of the operation.

20:50

His name was Philip Benham, and

20:52

she called him flipper, and he called her Miss

20:55

Norma. And they started to

20:57

become pretty chummy. They even

21:05

went on television together once and

21:07

newspapers started to write about how there was

21:09

this strange friendship developing between the

21:11

poster child of Rovi Wade and

21:14

minister for operation rescue. Everybody

21:16

was really puzzled by it.

21:24

I baptized you in the name of the father,

21:27

and of the son, and of the holy spirit.

21:29

And then

21:30

in nineteen ninety five, shocking

21:33

everybody. She converts.

21:35

This was the

21:36

kind of conversion the pro life movement

21:38

has been praying for. She becomes a born again

21:40

Christian, and Flip

21:43

batises her in the swimming pool in

21:45

the backyard of one of his Congregates.

21:49

This was the woman whose name is as

21:51

familiar as any in the land,

21:53

the embodiment of the pro choice

21:55

cause. In this creates a

21:58

huge uproar. A

22:01

Texas pro life association

22:04

said memorably that the poster child

22:06

just leapt off the poster. She

22:12

joins the pro life movement.

22:14

Most of you won't recognize me,

22:16

or by real name. It's normal

22:18

accordion. I'm also known

22:20

as Jane Rose, the plaintiff in

22:23

the supreme court case, Roe versus

22:25

way. And she is a trophy for that

22:27

movement. I mean, she was the poster child

22:29

and suddenly they have her. She's renounced

22:31

abortion. She thinks it's wrong. However,

22:34

upon knowing God, I realized

22:36

that my case, which legalized abortion

22:38

on

22:38

demand, was the biggest mistake of

22:40

my life. You see a boy. And she

22:43

goes on a crusade to stop it.

22:46

She gives speeches She

22:48

goes around the country. She

22:50

takes part in protests. Well, I

22:52

came here to show my support for life

22:55

and to 2

22:57

get a rest along with all the other sites.

22:59

And and I asked mister Obama to help

23:01

me overturn Roper's this way yesterday. I

23:04

don't know if you got the mess

23:05

style. She

23:05

protests president Obama when he's gonna give

23:08

a commencement speech at News Today. Know

23:12

she's a cackling. Even goes to

23:14

the senate to protest his supreme court

23:17

choice, Sonya Sotomayor.

23:19

She gets arrested and dragged out of the chamber.

23:22

FOR SHOUTING WHEN A SENATOR WAS SPEAKING.

23:25

CLEAR

23:25

SIFFERENT YOU NORMA. WE'RE FREING FOR

23:27

YOU SISTER. THANK YOU

23:29

NORMA FOR SCANDING UP.

23:31

Does she explain why she makes

23:33

this extraordinary conversion?

23:37

So basically, over the years, as

23:39

she recounts in her second book. She

23:42

starts feeling a deep big

23:44

sadness that she attributes to

23:47

supporting abortion. She

23:49

talks about how she

23:52

suddenly starts to hear the sound of children's

23:54

feet pitter patterning through the clinic

23:56

after it's closed after hours. Here's

23:59

the sound of a child's laugh as

24:01

she tries to cut the flowers outside

24:03

to put in the recovery room. And

24:06

she starts feeling that someone

24:08

out there in the universe is trying to tell her

24:10

something. All of the sadness

24:12

throughout her life, that's

24:14

actually about abortion. She

24:16

comes to regret that

24:18

choice in her role in the movement,

24:21

and she says it's God

24:23

that helped her see that. And

24:25

she starts talking to Flip. And

24:28

she seems to get something from him that

24:30

she's not getting from the

24:32

women she knows in the pro choice movement.

24:35

He owned a bar and he had drinking

24:38

problems. He was flawed in

24:40

a way that she understood. She

24:42

says at one point that

24:46

they wanted her so

24:48

that they could change something for everybody else

24:51

and kind of ignored her as a person,

24:54

whereas Flip who becomes her friend

24:57

wants her just for herself, not

24:59

for the movement. Someone

25:04

in feminist circles after this happened.

25:07

In feminist circles, by the way, didn't really have

25:09

much of a reaction. They kind of just shrugged

25:11

it off. But someone said, this

25:14

is some way that she can use the

25:16

system in the way that the system had used

25:18

her.

25:24

Does it occur to you that you may also

25:26

be being used now by the operation

25:29

rescue people for their purposes.

25:31

No, sir. And they I will not let

25:33

them use me. When these people

25:35

from operation rescue call me at home

25:37

out, they don't say, hey, Norma, why don't 2 come

25:40

down the office or, hey, Norma, we're having a fundraiser.

25:42

Well, you know, you have you

25:45

can get in and we're gonna introduce you were going

25:47

to acknowledge the fact that you're there, you know.

25:49

But we don't want you to speak because you're a

25:51

loose cannon, you know. And

25:53

we don't want really loose cannons around, but we

25:56

really do need you there closure Jane Roe, and

25:58

we don't have the other choice. So

26:00

so go

26:00

figure.

26:01

You're you're you're saying that's the way you were

26:03

used by the by the pro choice, ma'am. Yes,

26:06

sir.

26:07

Okay. Well, Norman McCorvey, III

26:09

wish you that peace and tranquility that

26:11

you clearly want, and and I thank you very

26:13

much for being with us this evening.

26:15

Thank you very much. And I appreciate

26:18

you. Thank

26:18

you.

26:29

Sabrina, do we know if she ever felt

26:32

a real allegiance? To

26:34

either side of this

26:36

fight

26:37

that she came to symbolize. So

26:40

it doesn't really seem like she did. The

26:43

people on the religious right

26:45

toward the end of her life, they

26:47

were disencented with her and disappointed as

26:49

well. Nora

26:51

died of heart failure last year in

26:53

February. She was sixty nine,

26:56

but neither side of the debate

26:59

really claimed her. She'd

27:01

been lifted up

27:04

as a symbol and I just kind

27:06

of forgotten about. In

27:09

some ways, in the same way that the issue

27:11

of abortion itself was. It

27:14

was something that ended

27:16

up becoming a much bigger

27:19

political fight about power and

27:22

what the nation would look like in the

27:23

future. And in

27:25

some ways that makes sense. Abortion

27:28

is deeply personal for many people.

27:31

It's a matter of life and death. But

27:35

it was also used in politics. It

27:38

gets used in the culture wars as

27:41

this weapon that both sides are using to attack

27:43

the other. That's

27:46

kind of normal story too. She's

27:49

used. In a way,

27:51

she was just kind of a token of this movement

27:54

of both sides. And

27:57

a lot of that had to do with her class, how

28:00

she came into the

28:00

world. Her station in life,

28:03

her background.

28:05

In a way she was a casualty of these culture

28:07

wars, she ended up

28:09

kind of flinging herself headlong toward

28:13

either side at different parts of her life,

28:16

but never really fitting in. And

28:18

in the end, not claimed by

28:20

either. And

28:24

somehow, Her story,

28:26

the story of Norma, kinda

28:28

got lost. If you don't really know

28:30

her name, they

28:32

only know row, the symbol.

28:35

Her pseudonym. Rovi

28:38

Wade, the case that changed the country.

29:12

Sabrina did Norma end up having

29:15

the baby in the end. She

29:17

did. It was a girl. And

29:20

she was whisked away for adoption before

29:22

Norma could ever see her. She

29:25

writes this. All

29:27

my life I have tried to do my best.

29:30

The problem as I try to understand it

29:33

is that I do not fit many people's idea

29:35

of historical role model. For

29:38

one thing, I am not a gentle woman

29:40

or a sophisticated one. Unlike

29:43

many of the women I admire, I've

29:45

not been able to spend a lifetime thinking of big

29:47

issues or political strategies or

29:49

many times even what I'm going to do the next

29:52

day or hour or minute. I

29:55

would like to be that kind of woman, but

29:57

I am not. Instead, I'm

29:59

a rough woman born into pain

30:01

and anger and raised mostly by myself

30:04

married to a man who beat me when was pregnant.

30:08

I've sought out and pulled close to bad people,

30:10

and I have lashed out and pushed away

30:12

the people who love me. I have

30:15

a bad temper and oftentimes at

30:17

the worst times, I lose it.

30:19

I am my own worst enemy. I've

30:22

had three children, but two of

30:24

them for better or for worse are unknown

30:26

to me. Of my many sorrows,

30:29

This is without a doubt the worst.

30:42

This episode was produced by

30:45

Lindsay Garrison. And edited

30:47

by Lisa Toebben and Page

30:49

Cowett. It was engineered by

30:51

Chris Wood and Dan Powell. Our

30:54

theme music is by Jim Bloomberg and

30:56

Ben Lanzberg of Wonderley. That's

31:00

it for Daily. I'm Michael Bilborrow.

31:03

See you on Monday.

31:09

This podcast is supported by Bleaker

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