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1:01

This This episode is brought

1:03

to you by State Farm. You might say

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all kinds of stuff when things go wrong,

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but these are the words you really need

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to remember. Like a good neighbor, State Farm

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someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is

1:30

there. is the Don Lebatore Show

1:32

with the Stugats Podcast. Because

1:39

people need their football, Nate Tice

1:41

is going to join us

1:43

here in a segment executive produced

1:45

by Billy Gill. We're

1:47

going to play Naughty or

1:49

Tice with Nate Tice and

1:51

Billy Gill of God bless

1:53

football to get our draft

1:55

information. Billy is looking through

1:57

papers right now wondering what

1:59

is naughty or Tice. But you know,

2:01

though, one of those games you hear it,

2:03

you know, I think Billy just found out

2:05

that he's executive producing that segment. We'll get

2:08

to it in a moment. Also, I still

2:10

want to get to. WrestleMania

2:13

because we have not. And I

2:15

also want to get to. the

2:17

stuff happening with McAfee

2:19

and Shin and Sharp because

2:21

wrestling happened yesterday on

2:23

ESPN and if you're welcoming

2:25

in the age of

2:27

wrestlers and wrestling and it's

2:29

all content and it's

2:31

all drama what happened on

2:33

McAfee show is about

2:35

some inner office tensions there

2:38

that super interesting to

2:40

me watching the athletes come

2:42

and try and run off the

2:44

journalists like steven a smith isn't

2:46

gonna jay steven a smith might

2:48

be the coolest of us but

2:50

it's a new time and mackafee

2:52

and shannon sharper in the hundred

2:54

million dollar game before i'm gonna let

2:56

play out some of the shannon

2:58

sharp stuff because There's

3:00

time to know what's true or what's

3:02

not. I'm just going to address what

3:04

I saw happen this weekend, which was

3:06

strategic. Over the weekend, it leaks. Shannon

3:08

Sharp contract up worth a hundred million

3:10

dollars, whatever the numbers were. And I'm

3:12

like, why would that come out on

3:14

the weekend? Oh, because then

3:16

everything that comes after that can

3:18

be framed as money grab or whatever

3:20

it is that people do

3:22

when they're arguing about money and

3:25

now accusations of. rape

3:28

inside of a consensual relationship, the

3:31

money was leaked first. And

3:34

then you get what

3:36

you got yesterday from Shannon

3:38

Sharp, Busby's a

3:40

lawyer that does these

3:42

things, but I'm

3:45

not going to try

3:47

and talk about the particulars of who's

3:49

right, who's wrong. I just thought

3:51

it was interesting that purposely

3:54

Money is leaked on the weekend and

3:56

I'm like what why is this happening

3:58

now? What who's doing this and

4:00

why and then? What happens

4:02

the next day as you

4:04

find that McAfee and Shannon

4:06

Sharp and Stephen A Smith

4:08

are becoming a class of

4:11

Journalists celebrity Entertainer it's all

4:13

wrestling wrestling's going to Netflix

4:15

Tony Khan knows how to

4:17

sell stuff in the streaming

4:19

service ESPN's gonna get into

4:21

the wrestling fighting information

4:23

business, all of it mixed together,

4:26

what happened yesterday on ESPN is

4:28

something I've never seen watching

4:30

ESPN in my lifetime. Where

4:32

Pat McAfee, who's independent

4:35

as part of a wrestling

4:37

promotion where he stars because

4:39

he's a monster media talent, an

4:42

event that Mike Ryan goes with his buddies

4:44

to, and that Zaslow wants to

4:46

cover, McAfee, a

4:48

giant star, has a wrestling

4:50

superstar manager on, and that guy's

4:52

too hot for television. Like, what he's

4:54

doing cannot be controlled by Disney.

4:56

Wrestling has arrived to Disney, and it's

4:58

like, here's what it looks like.

5:00

We're in the middle of your game,

5:03

and we're gonna say McAfee's smoking

5:05

pot, and he's Mother Bleep and Stephen

5:07

A. Smith. Let's play that sound

5:09

so that people can hear as McAfee

5:11

gets sheepish, and they all do

5:13

wrestling on television in a way that's

5:15

great if you like drama and

5:17

entertainment and wrestling storyline. care

5:19

about the opinions of people who are irrelevant. You

5:21

don't care about the opinions of most people who

5:23

are very relevant in your life. You don't

5:25

care about the opinions of the people who pay

5:27

you. They sit there and they

5:30

go, hey, Mr. McAfee, don't talk about

5:32

Shannon Sharp on here today. And you go,

5:34

I talk about anything I want. I'm

5:36

Pat McAfee. Watch me swing my slung all

5:38

over the place. They go, McAfee, don't

5:40

talk about your podcast down here. What do

5:42

you do? I'm King

5:44

Slung. Watch me Pat

5:46

McAfee, right? Last

5:49

night when the roast was over

5:51

and you and I were out back

5:53

and you're going... By

5:55

the

5:58

way

6:00

it's Puff Puff Pass not Puff

6:02

Puff Puff Puff Puff Puff

6:04

Puff Chase down the gummy Puff

6:06

Puff Puff Puff Pass and

6:09

you go... You

6:12

know Steven even a Smith

6:14

really sucks, right? And

6:17

I go I love Steven a the

6:19

man calls me the goat the man

6:21

Steven a Smith is on the air

6:23

saying if there's one person in the

6:25

universe that I Steven a Smith at

6:27

70 billion dollars a year here want

6:29

to be it's the wise man Paul

6:31

Heyman and you sit there and

6:34

you go DZSBN bastards give me the

6:36

same money as him or they

6:38

can I've

6:43

loved professional wrestling all my life. I

6:46

mean that's not even like the clip

6:48

that went super viral for Paul Heyman

6:50

there where he's saying you look like

6:52

you're about to get deported to one of

6:54

the people and he's just going like

6:57

he's trying to get a new heel persona.

6:59

He's always kind of been heel -adjacent

7:01

but he's launching a more aggressive heel

7:03

character and he's using the Pat McAfee

7:05

show to do it by doing things

7:07

that are considered third railed. Did a

7:09

good enough job in protecting Pat. Pat

7:12

being like the traffic cop like, no,

7:14

you can't, you can't do that. And

7:16

so maybe he hears about it, maybe

7:18

he doesn't, but WWE and Pat McAfee

7:20

and ESPN clearly have a very good,

7:22

strong relationship. They find this mutually beneficial.

7:24

WWE produced an incredible event that Pat

7:26

had at the, at the penguins arena

7:29

that was all entirely a WWE production

7:31

that went on Hulu or that ESPN

7:33

use. So I think that that's, that's

7:35

actually pro wrestling happening on, on a

7:37

television show. I'm not reading too much

7:39

into it, even though it gets. People's

7:41

attention that's the most pro wrestling.

7:44

I think that's ever been

7:46

on ESPN television and it's

7:48

it's Not a coincidence that it comes

7:50

from that guy because that guy

7:52

Paul Hame is so embedded in

7:54

This is the gimmick and we're

7:56

if a camera is on or

7:58

if we're recording something then

8:01

I am in the gimmick and that

8:03

was what we saw, you know, it's

8:05

leading up to what he wanted to

8:08

take place and ended up taking place

8:10

last night, you know, and this is

8:12

a very bitter man and he's angry

8:14

and he brought that on television there

8:16

and he's old school pro wrestling where,

8:18

yeah, it doesn't matter that I'm

8:20

on your stage, this is me, this

8:22

is my character. Okay, but when you guys

8:24

talk about old school pro wrestling, I

8:26

don't know how the rest of the room

8:28

feels. I have not asked Billy Jessica Chris

8:31

Arroy, how they feel about

8:33

the grown man allegiances that

8:35

Zazz and Mike Ryan have

8:38

to the entertainment spectacle that

8:40

is WrestleMania and professional wrestling. I

8:42

love it. I mean, I see what you're trying to

8:44

do there. We're not the guys that fell for pro wrestling.

8:46

You are. You all thought that

8:49

Paul Heyman was doing something like

8:51

super dangerous. That was very controversial because

8:53

he just invoked some names. Like

8:55

that was that was pro wrestling. He brought up the lawsuit.

8:58

Yeah, that's pro wrestling. It's pro wrestling and

9:00

he got heat and he got his

9:02

bit over. He's one of the

9:04

greatest minds in the history of pro

9:06

wrestling in terms of getting things over.

9:08

So you think ESPN suits were watching

9:10

that and being like, awesome. I'm sure

9:12

there's a suit. I'm sure that maybe

9:14

it was at least communicated even before

9:16

or after, but this is a work.

9:19

Don't work yourself it. You know what a

9:22

work is. You know what that means.

9:24

I do, yes. And I would say that

9:26

Mike Ryan is applying some expertise here

9:28

that when egos get involved, Mike, like I

9:30

understand that you might cite it as

9:32

a work. McAfee would know it's

9:34

a work. Not everybody at

9:36

ESPN is in on that particular joke

9:39

and so we have learned on occasion when

9:41

we are doing the joke at the

9:43

expense of Dana White who might not have

9:45

the same sense of humor as we

9:47

have that sometimes what we think is a

9:49

work and know as a work and

9:51

the audience knows as a work is not

9:53

taken as a work by a Dana

9:56

White who might have a different view of

9:58

things. I totally understand.

10:00

And if someone on First Take feels some

10:02

way about it, it would be explained

10:04

to them the way that we explained our

10:07

bits to people that took offense, buster

10:09

only, not liking the looks like game. We've

10:11

had all these things happen. And we've

10:13

had to explain, this is the kind of

10:15

show that we do. I mean, to

10:17

hurt your feelings, we understand we're committed to

10:19

our show. And McAfee is very truly

10:21

committed to, I think the wrestling thing is

10:24

the thing that he enjoys the most. The

10:26

show, probably that afforded

10:28

him this opportunity to have

10:30

all these crazy doors open. But

10:32

the Pat McAfee that you get

10:35

on WWE seems genuinely like the happiest

10:37

to be there. I think that's

10:39

the most funny hat. He got choked

10:41

out last night on live television

10:43

in the show. Spoiler alert. You

10:45

guys were. Living

10:48

and dying with WrestleMania. So what were

10:50

the takeaways between the two of

10:53

you? Because Zazzle hasn't offered me anything

10:55

other than Cena 17 time champion. I

10:58

mean, if you want to mark out go

11:00

for it as I'm sure I love

11:02

the spectacle of it. It's always a great

11:04

This is the way wrestling has changed

11:06

for me from when I'm a kid where

11:08

okay, I'm rooting for certain wrestlers I

11:10

want certain guys to win because I'm a

11:12

child to now as I'm older It's

11:14

more about especially if I go and Mike

11:16

went to WrestleMania. I didn't you want

11:18

go into a wrestling event now for me

11:20

as an adult I want to be

11:22

part of a moment I want to be

11:24

part of something big. I want to

11:26

be there when the crowd all simultaneously all

11:28

60 ,000 people at that arena at that

11:30

stadium this weekend. They're all cheering at

11:32

the same time for the same thing.

11:34

It's a great feeling. I love the

11:36

emotion that comes that it's about being

11:38

there for moments and Mike got several

11:41

moments. this weekend, which makes

11:43

it an amazing time. Isn't John Cena,

11:45

though, the face of the PG era

11:47

of wrestling? Well, and now he's a

11:49

real piece of garbage, this John Cena.

11:51

But are we another PG? Are we

11:53

liking this? Like, are we buying this?

11:55

I'm seeing some people being like, it

11:58

feels like wrestling is just, I

12:00

don't know, it just feels almost like

12:02

lazy. It looked like that. Triple H

12:04

very clearly took offense to people criticizing

12:07

the build to WrestleMania and I think

12:09

the build was the build and Triple

12:11

H can say you don't know where

12:13

it's going but we're just in a

12:15

vacuum criticizing the lead up to it.

12:17

It does actually seem like there's clarity

12:19

in the direction of this heel character.

12:21

John Cena turned heel a month and

12:24

a half ago and he just found

12:26

his character and he's just starting to

12:28

get it over beginning with last night. That

12:31

Probably was a disappointment the very main event and I think

12:33

that's part of it though. I think they want you

12:35

to be disappointed They wanted you to be angry at them.

12:37

That's part of this story I mean some they don't

12:39

want you to be disappointed after a main event Well, I

12:41

mean I think you got to look at the bigger

12:44

picture or it's like hey the whole show is not just

12:46

the main event like like Mike Maybe you didn't like

12:48

the main event. Did you think did you have a great

12:50

time? Did you think it was a great show? I

12:52

thought the the triple threat match that

12:54

won. Well, what matters. He thought it was

12:56

a great show. He had a great time. Oh,

12:58

yeah. No, it's a spectacle every time. I

13:00

enjoy it. And I actually spoke to a friend

13:02

of the show that is working on a

13:04

project exploring different types of sports. Go on. And

13:06

he took into account this WrestleMania event for

13:08

the first time, not knowing anything about it. And

13:10

it was really cool to kind of be

13:12

texting with that person as they were experiencing it,

13:14

kind of being swept away by the spectacle. It's

13:18

nice that you tried to protect your

13:20

source but somebody revealed that source

13:22

on yesterday's show and I was learning

13:24

of who it is you were

13:26

at WrestleMania with at least in part

13:28

because that person was trying to

13:31

learn about what the WrestleMania experience is

13:33

because that person doesn't think that

13:35

what you guys are attached to here

13:37

is a same thing that human

13:39

beings should be emotionally invested in. It's

13:42

ridiculous. Why would anyone, why does,

13:44

I don't, I just don't understand

13:46

the part where people have a

13:48

problem with other people enjoying a

13:50

show. That's what it boils down to.

13:52

I get it. Would you do? Yeah. Yeah,

13:55

I didn't like Big Bang Theory. I thought people that liked

13:57

it were not my type of people, so I it. But

13:59

are you telling people don't watch Big Bang Theory? You shouldn't

14:01

be watching that? I would. You're an adult? I

14:03

would. I mean, I'm more chill. Now that I'm older,

14:05

there was a time where I'm like, how can

14:07

this be a good show? How do you like this

14:10

show? I don't understand it. And then I realized

14:12

art is subjective. And if people put their heart and

14:14

soul into it, I shouldn't be criticizing it all

14:16

that much. But to me, it's no different than being

14:18

a fan of the last of us. But

14:20

wrestling fans do kind of deserve the

14:22

ribbing. Such a good shout on that

14:24

show. He have picked a better show.

14:27

It's just a polarizing show. Some people

14:29

really love it. And you're just like,

14:31

why? The Last of Us? No, no,

14:33

no. I'm talking about Big Bang Theory. Very

14:35

polarizing. I thought you were talking about The Last

14:37

of Us 2, which, by the way, Season 1

14:39

was really scary, so I decided I'm not going

14:41

to watch Season 2. But I am going to

14:43

lurk. I'm going to be aware it.

14:46

good. It's started strong. It's

14:48

visually fantastic. It's

14:50

a great show. Everyone likes the acting.

14:52

It's a good show. I just finished

14:54

that one, by the way. And? Season

14:57

2? Season 3. Oh. I

14:59

have thoughts we talk about it

15:01

now. It can it is

15:03

the embargo spoiler Wednesday. Yeah, it's

15:06

Wednesday white lotus. You haven't

15:08

caught up like spoiler alert spoiler

15:10

alert spoiler alert like It's

15:13

very interesting to see how people

15:15

like view the relationship of Walton

15:17

Goggins character a little bit because there

15:19

were some people that were really

15:21

devastated by it and as someone

15:23

that kind of was just passively

15:25

following it I understand the trauma,

15:27

but they did a lot of foreshadowing that

15:29

this wasn't actually gonna go anywhere and it

15:31

led to demise. So I don't,

15:33

there are people that are really swept up and romanticizing it

15:35

and you can kind of tell some people have had

15:37

trauma in their lives and I get why they associate it

15:39

that way but I didn't think that this was like

15:41

It wasn't couples' goals to me, the way that a lot

15:43

of people felt like it was. The last part,

15:46

100 % agree with you. I was not

15:48

really sold on the emotional arcs of

15:50

several of the characters this season simply because

15:52

I just don't think the writing was

15:54

as tight as the first couple seasons. I

15:56

think there was just not enough to

15:58

make me really invested. My

16:00

appraisal toward the

16:02

end of it was

16:04

that they copped

16:06

out. and if he'd

16:08

gone totally dark with how

16:11

beautiful, and again, spoiler alert,

16:13

spoiler alert, spoiler alert, if

16:16

they had stayed with the

16:18

only one who died amid

16:20

the riches was the kid

16:23

who was looking up at

16:25

the Buddhists, the artistry of

16:27

all of that visually, if

16:29

they had ended dark with

16:32

death, That ending would

16:34

have been beautiful, but instead, they just

16:36

wrapped up all the storylines after

16:38

that, including spa owner waves as if

16:40

she's on a cruise ship, and

16:42

they just sort of wrapped it up

16:44

in a way that wasn't artful.

16:47

That was my criticism of the end

16:49

of it, but the journey of

16:51

it... where that's the death that you

16:53

get and the plot twist. I

16:55

understand why everybody was or so many

16:57

people were watching that show and

16:59

then that the conclusion of it would

17:01

be unsatisfying because why? Because they

17:04

wanted. different results they wanted. I

17:06

don't think it was unsatisfying. I think it

17:08

kind of delivered in that it gave you

17:10

a moment to discuss and people can have

17:12

their opinions as to whether or not it

17:14

was good or bad, but I think everybody

17:16

was there for the event and in terms

17:18

of like an appointment viewing event, the White

17:20

Lotus finale did kind of deliver on that

17:22

and give them you talking points. It's a

17:24

very entertaining show and I just think that

17:26

the characters in this season weren't the strongest,

17:28

especially compared to the first two seasons, which

17:30

were shorter seasons and shorter episodes. and sort

17:32

of had, delivered more of a punch. I

17:35

don't think it's that entertaining. I think it's

17:37

intriguing. I think it's

17:39

an intriguing show, but most weeks, I

17:42

feel like nothing is happening. It's easy

17:44

to watch though, because it's a mystery. Yes.

17:46

Can you be intrigued by something, but

17:48

not be entertained by Yeah. Because I think

17:50

entertainment is intriguing sometimes. Well, yes.

17:52

Pro -wrestling sometimes. Yes. That is entertaining and

17:54

intriguing. But if you're intrigued, you must be

17:56

a little bit entertained to be intrigued. I'm

17:58

interested. No, because I want to find out

18:01

the mystery. I want to find out what's

18:03

going to happen. Doesn't necessarily mean I'm entertained

18:05

every some weeks. I'm sitting there for 60

18:07

minutes like nothing happened. Where's the entertainment line

18:09

for you? Like what is what crosses? And

18:11

you're like now I'm entertained. How

18:14

intrigued do you need to be? That's

18:16

a good question. How intrigued do you have

18:18

to be to cross over into entertain

18:20

because. Goggins is having

18:22

a moment to have both of

18:24

those shows going Sunday nights where

18:26

he's the critical character. He's been,

18:29

for all this time with McBride

18:31

and others, he's been number

18:33

two. He's rising to a number

18:36

one, especially because on Gemstones,

18:38

he's using a prosthetic of a

18:40

78 -year -old penis. Amazing. Can

18:42

I get the sound

18:45

of White Lotus creator,

18:47

Mike White, telling his customers,

18:49

you're not allowed To

18:51

be a bossy bottom there was complaining

18:53

about how there's no plot and that

18:56

part I find weird because the it

18:58

never had him like it's never been

19:00

It's like part of me is just

19:02

like bro. This is the vibe like

19:04

I'm world -building, you know, I mean

19:06

it's just like you know like You

19:09

know, if you don't want to go to bed with me,

19:11

get out of my bed. Like, you know what I mean?

19:13

I'm edging you, you know? It's like, enjoy the edging. Like,

19:15

if you don't want to be edged, get out of my

19:17

bed. Do you know what I mean? It's just like, don't

19:19

be a bossy bottom. Or get the fuck out of my

19:21

bed. Like, don't come home with me. Don't get naked in

19:23

my bed. Get the fuck out of my bed. All right.

19:26

I love being edgy by you, Mike. Obviously,

19:28

something's going to happen. I'm

19:30

not going to just like, yeah, we're not going to to leave you here.

19:32

I'm not to leave you here with nothing. Seems

19:34

defensive. Not

19:37

a great moment for him. I mean, I like

19:39

him. I used to watch him on Amazing

19:41

Race and then Survivor, so I'm a big white

19:43

guy. I'm less interested, honestly, in his art

19:45

than his reality TV appearances. But if you say

19:47

the sentence, I'm world building, you kind of

19:49

lose me. Triple H had the exact same reaction

19:51

to people criticizing the build of the WrestleMania

19:53

main event. I mean, it's like he had two

19:55

good seasons. This one was a bit of

19:57

a letdown for people. Like that's fine, you know,

19:59

to get like so angry about it. I

20:01

actually get a fourth one. So I actually thought

20:04

the second and third season were better than

20:06

the first. Personally, I don't

20:08

know what the reaction was. Was

20:10

it a polarizing reaction to both

20:12

the ending and the entirety of

20:14

the season? Were there a lot

20:16

of complaints because popular thing growing,

20:18

which is what this is over

20:20

three years, the whatever it is,

20:22

the more it grows. The more criticism it's

20:24

going to get, no matter how good it

20:26

becomes until at the end Game of Thrones

20:29

is falling apart, because there's a Starbucks cup

20:31

in one of the scenes. Well, I mean,

20:33

people were criticizing White Lotus like on season,

20:35

like on episode three this season. They were

20:37

like already out on it. They didn't like

20:39

it from the beginning and they were just

20:41

kind of waiting for it to end to

20:43

find what to complain about. On Mystery Crate,

20:45

we were saying how the finale was a

20:48

legacy episode for Mike White. Big

20:50

episode for him. And what was the conclusion?

20:54

inconclusive yeah i think he can he can

20:56

reel me back in with season four if

20:58

season four is good i'll be back in

21:00

i just i think the common criticism dan

21:02

was that the finale was unearned it was

21:04

just not a lot of it was a

21:06

little you know predictable i found it predictable

21:08

and that is a bummer because i think

21:11

the first couple seasons the way the characters

21:13

die in the first two seasons are like

21:15

totally absurdist and unpredictable and the way the

21:17

characters died in this season was like in

21:19

a sad like shootout at a resort but

21:21

some of the stuff was like rushed like

21:23

Spoiler alert he shoots his dad and his

21:25

dad like went and yelled at him and

21:28

then and then the wife was like That

21:30

was your dad and it's like well should

21:32

have told him. We didn't told us like

21:34

40 years ago like it was that part

21:36

Yeah, it was just a little we knew

21:38

that he was gonna be the dad. We

21:40

knew but that's what the big reveal I

21:42

did not that was a surprise wait wait

21:45

hold on Chris wait hold on Chris walk

21:47

us through the surprising moments of this season

21:49

of white lotus for you. I'm uh the

21:51

The lady saying, he's your dad. He told

21:53

me this morning. That part. Well,

21:55

what did you think? Who'd you think his

21:57

dad was? I thought his dad had died.

21:59

I thought that that guy had killed his

22:01

dad. So the Goggins. I mean, that's how

22:03

it was set up the entire story. All

22:05

right. I need to stop everyone. Just please

22:07

and forgive me for doing this, just because

22:09

I have to stop Jessica for a moment.

22:13

I thought if something

22:15

was a legacy game, whatever

22:17

happened at the end of that. Couldn't be

22:19

inconclusive. They can't, like, COVID test. Sometime, remember back

22:22

in, like, the height of COVID, you'd go,

22:24

you're waiting in the long line, they'd stick the

22:26

thing up your nose in your car, you'd

22:28

have to go like this, and then you have

22:30

to tilt your head back. Put

22:32

your brain a little. be waiting around, like, can I go

22:34

on vacation? Can I not? Can I go to work? Can

22:36

I not? And then it comes back, it's like, inconclusive. You're

22:38

like, how? How is this inconclusive? And

22:41

it's like, well, they did it 14 times instead

22:43

of 15 times, so we don't know if

22:45

you have it or you don't. Same thing with

22:47

the legacy game, legacy episode, inconclusive. A

22:49

legacy game has to be conclusive.

22:51

No, not always. It's a legacy game.

22:53

If it's a legacy game, if

22:55

it's for your legacy, must be conclusive.

22:57

No. Here, I think, I think

22:59

what the problem is, Dan, there was

23:01

enough in the finale that we're

23:03

not writing off the show completely. There

23:05

was enough moment. Then it's not

23:07

a legacy game. Kuhn's monologue was a

23:09

moment. There were other, like, small

23:11

moments. Saxon having his tearful look back at Chelsea

23:14

after he realized that. How was he the

23:16

one that grew the most? He's soulless. Yeah, it's

23:18

a great question. The weirdest part of the

23:20

season. He's the only one that left a better

23:22

person than when he got there. What brother

23:24

would do that? Yeah, that was a weirder part.

23:26

Which part? I think his legacy moment

23:28

was... Do you guys call that part too? You

23:31

guys saw that part coming? Very predictable. I

23:33

mean, yeah, there was like a ton

23:35

of foreshadowing that something weird was gonna happen.

23:37

First episode, like, okay. Yeah, ton

23:39

of foreshadowing. Not that

23:41

though. Not that much. Not

23:43

that much. Mike White gave us

23:45

enough. Yeah. I'll watch season four.

23:47

willing to suspend the legacy conversation until

23:49

season four ends. But season four

23:51

is definitely a legacy season. It's gotta

23:53

be good. It's gotta good. Big

23:55

bounce back ceiling we need. Yeah. I

23:58

don't understand how doing this. Legacy

24:00

episode. If it's a legacy thing, it

24:02

ends. Inconclusive. No, it can't. Sometimes. No,

24:05

no. Have you ever had a medical exam? You're

24:07

inconclusive all the time. No, it's not a legacy

24:09

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24:11

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27:25

cdkng .co slash audio don lebatard that

27:27

was a long story yeah it's

27:29

the only kind he tells me it's

27:31

a short one for me i

27:33

tried to speed it up for you

27:35

guys you forgot about the league's

27:37

cup stugatz yeah la careta is uh

27:39

a place where the best of

27:41

the celebrations has to be the 97

27:43

marlin celebration because it was levon

27:45

well when fidel died the first time

27:48

this is the don lebatard show

27:50

with the stugatz He's

27:59

an NFL analyst for Yahoo

28:01

Sports. He's the host of the

28:03

Football 301 podcast. You can

28:05

also watch Nate on Yahoo Sports

28:07

Draft Live. Streaming for

28:09

the first three rounds on the Yahoo

28:11

Sports website and app hits his

28:13

first appearance on this show. Thank you

28:15

for joining us, Nate. Before we

28:17

get started, though, and play Naughty or

28:19

Tice, which is the only reason

28:21

we're having you on, I think, you're

28:24

most interested about what in this

28:26

upcoming draft. And thank you again for

28:28

joining us. Most interested. I

28:30

just want to see where the quarterbacks go. As always,

28:32

I'm basic. You know, quarterbacks, they draw my eyes.

28:34

I follow the stars. But thank you for having me.

28:36

But yeah, I just want to see where the

28:38

quarterbacks end up, because there's been a lot of hoopla,

28:41

a lot of flags being planted. I

28:43

want to see some of those flags go down. Hoopla,

28:45

all right. That's really what say. All righty, we've already gotten

28:47

to the hoopla. I thought it was who. OK, so

28:49

all right, we're at the hoopla. Before

28:51

we get to draft stuff, did you see

28:53

the story with AJ Brown getting his car

28:55

recovered after it was stolen? Did you see

28:57

all of this? I did not.

29:00

I did not see AJ Brown. he

29:02

reading a book? And that's why it's got

29:04

stolen. No, I was a little distracted reading

29:06

a book. I only bring it up because

29:08

it's breaking news now. And I expect you

29:10

to know every single thing that is happening

29:12

anywhere in sports in the sport right now

29:14

at this time. So you don't know anything

29:16

about what I'm talking about. That'd be a

29:19

weird. I do not. Mobile. I do not.

29:21

I'm five layers deep in the draft. I'm

29:23

watching Ash and Genty versus Nevada Reno. You

29:25

know, that's what I'm pulling right now. So

29:27

do not see AJ Brown. I'll do that.

29:29

Billy, get me more information

29:31

on this story, please, as it breaks.

29:33

Jessica, I'm sorry, I interrupted you with

29:35

the Breaking AJ Brown News. Oh, you

29:37

didn't interrupt me, Dan. I listened to

29:39

Nate's podcast with Charles, and I'm a

29:41

huge fan. And he's, like he

29:43

said, he's basic. He wants to see where

29:45

the quarterbacks go. I'm also basic. I want

29:47

to see where the quarterbacks go. And right

29:49

now, there's obviously been a lot of news

29:51

about Shudder Sanders. Where is he a reach?

29:53

Where is he sort of a good pick?

29:55

Like, are the Steelers going to take him

29:57

at 21, where do you see that unfolding?

30:01

Yeah, I think Steelers kind of seems

30:03

like the, I don't know, floor

30:05

is the right word or ceiling where

30:07

he can go highest. Because

30:09

I think what happened with the Shudder

30:11

Sanders experience is that experience, I'll say,

30:13

because it has been experienced this whole

30:15

draft cycle, is that I think was

30:17

more evaluator started evaluating him, you know,

30:19

the one, the decision makers, the coaches,

30:22

the GMs, assistant GMs, the ones up

30:24

top, they all just kind of went,

30:26

Oh. OK, this is what

30:28

you are. And this is good

30:30

and bad. And I think that the realistic

30:32

slotting for him is starting at pick 20

30:34

into the early second round. And you never

30:36

know, because teams get frisky with quarterbacks, especially

30:38

in the 20s. Oh, our guys dropping. We

30:40

got to move up for there. But I

30:43

think that at pick 20 is where

30:45

or 21, I believe it's where the Steelers

30:47

are is really where it starts for him.

30:49

Because I just think that it's realistic expectations

30:51

for him. I view him as a second

30:53

rounder or a day two guy, as I

30:55

put it, because quarterback grading gets wonky and

30:57

where they actually go. But that is

31:00

kind of, I think more of the consensus than

31:02

not was been kind of publicly happening. And I

31:04

think it's kind of catching up and we'll see

31:06

that on draft night. But the Steelers might be

31:08

one, but we'll see. It can be all over

31:10

the place because that's how this. class, not just

31:12

quarterbacks, but the entire class of the draft is

31:14

there's lack of consensus. So it might be it's

31:16

might be even more wonky on a Thursday and

31:18

Friday than we usually see. Man, I want to

31:21

listen to the words you're saying, but I'm just

31:23

so lost in your eyes. Just

31:25

beautiful eyes you have. Swimming, swimming

31:27

in lagoons is what it feels

31:29

like. He said three times. I didn't

31:31

hear anything else. There were just

31:33

a couple of wonkeys and something else.

31:35

And I was just lost swimming

31:38

in his eyes. I know I'm

31:40

awake, so my eyes are actually open. Usually

31:42

they're just slits, and then that's all you

31:44

can usually see with them. So I appreciate

31:46

that. I appreciate the blue -eye compliments. Nate,

31:48

do you know who Andrew Hawkins is?

31:51

Yeah. Who's hotter? Him or Method Man?

31:55

Hawkins definitely I have an update on

31:57

the AJ Brown situation so AJ Brown's

31:59

car was stolen and he put out

32:01

on Twitter Dear Philly to whoever stole

32:03

my car last night. I'll make a

32:05

deal with you Bring back my car,

32:07

and I won't press charges or when

32:09

I find you today It's going to

32:11

be what it's going to be take

32:13

it or leave it my guy And

32:16

his car has been returned, but Brown

32:18

says the police returned his car, and

32:20

the thief is dealing with consequences. So

32:23

either he found that car and consequences are

32:25

being dealt with, or he may have lied to

32:27

the people saying there'd be no consequences if

32:29

they returned the car. That's

32:31

the latest at the news desk. I'm

32:33

Billy Gill. Thank you. It's a

32:35

good story. So basically, AJ Brown threatened

32:37

someone, a thief, to return his

32:39

car successfully. He made an ultimatum, it

32:41

sounds like. That is excellent work

32:44

by A .J. Brown. But

32:46

I'm surprised that Nate Tice hadn't even

32:48

heard of the story, because, again, I

32:51

know, well, but I mean, if

32:53

his car was getting drafted, Nate would

32:55

know it. Maybe. That's right. I

32:57

know about it. I had a late

32:59

second grade on his car, so

33:01

I'm surprised it went this early and

33:03

that he signed a deal to

33:05

be dropped in the news this early.

33:07

I thought the new CBA didn't

33:09

allow that to be signed before the

33:11

draft. Nate, Jessica, do me this

33:13

favor, please, and explain to me something

33:15

I simply don't understand. because while

33:17

I love that Greg Cody does his

33:19

exactos and his mock drafts, and

33:21

I've been making fun of him about

33:23

it for 20 years, I believe

33:25

that Jessica and Nate care about this

33:27

draft more than reasonable human beings

33:29

should. I also believe that our friend,

33:31

Mina Kimes, cares about mock drafts

33:33

in general more than she cares about

33:35

anything else in the world. And

33:37

I'm genuinely confused by the phenomenon. Please

33:39

explain it to me in your... Hope.

33:43

I think that's what it is. I think hope

33:45

is what you're selling on draft night. And

33:48

I think that's why they've packaged it, stamped

33:50

it, and sold it to everybody. I think

33:52

that's really what it is. And I think

33:54

too is that college football is so big

33:56

that you have people that, hey, we're playing

33:58

member barriers with some of these guys. Hey,

34:00

this guy, you know him. He won the

34:03

Heisman. Hey, this guy was really good, a

34:05

four -year starter for your school, which is unlikely

34:07

now with everyone transferring. But really, that's

34:09

what you're selling to teams, is that

34:11

All 32 teams have hope. The games

34:13

haven't started. They haven't started 0 and

34:15

6. They haven't started 0 and 5.

34:17

They haven't fired their head coach. Their

34:19

quarterback isn't actually a lemon. And

34:21

I think that's what you're selling. And also, the

34:23

draft now, if you notice, is it's rotating all

34:25

these cold weather cities. And I think that's been

34:27

a great thing for actually the NFL. It's like,

34:29

well, also they make more money off of it.

34:31

So of course, it's a great thing for them.

34:33

But they have gone, oh, the Super Bowl gets

34:36

the warm weather cities. Well, how do we reward

34:38

or bring this event to the fans? And I

34:40

actually think that's been a good part of this.

34:42

I know it's in Green Bay this year, which

34:44

is kind a pain to ask for most people

34:46

to get to. But I know being in Pittsburgh,

34:48

Chicago, Kansas City, Detroit, Detroit, it was

34:50

awesome last year. So I think that's a

34:52

part of it too, is that it's the fan

34:54

event. While the Super Bowl is the corporate

34:56

event, the draft is truly the fan

34:58

event. And I think that's why so many people get

35:00

hyped up about it. the college football

35:02

side of it is why I mean I'm

35:04

a fan of the NFL and college football

35:06

but I like you said I love seeing

35:08

players that I watch playing college get drafted

35:10

and usually especially in the first round it's

35:12

like their dream come true it's like the

35:15

best day of their lives unless they get

35:17

drafted to the Giants or something like that

35:19

but I was Going through your one of

35:21

your mock drafts in the car, I was

35:23

on like a seven hour car ride and

35:25

Lehman was just naming players and I was

35:27

giving their positions and where they went to

35:29

school just because we were bored. And it

35:31

seems like a really deep draft for Ed

35:33

rusher specifically. Is that the position group that

35:35

you think has the most value later on

35:38

in the later rounds? I

35:40

would say the deepest position is running

35:42

back. There might be double -digit running

35:44

backs in the first two days

35:46

that get selected. I looked it up.

35:48

The record since the new millennium

35:50

since 2000 is 11 in the top

35:52

three rounds. I think the

35:54

all -time records the mid -90s is like 15 or

35:56

14, which is... you it's a different age.

35:58

But I think that the running back is the

36:01

deepest class with Ash and Genty two on

36:03

top. And there might be two or three runbacks

36:05

selected in the first. But edge is another

36:07

spot and not just edge D line in general

36:09

is pretty good and pretty deep at the

36:11

top and into the second day. And actually the

36:13

position that I think has been kind of

36:15

overlooked a little bit is that there's some depth

36:17

that often is aligned. There might not be

36:19

the really, really great guys at the top of

36:22

the draft. But there's a lot of players,

36:24

I would say late first, early second that it's

36:26

a little juicier. than you would expect. Then

36:28

I think it's been kind of made out

36:30

to be. And then tight end is another position

36:32

that has talent at the top. And on

36:34

day two, some interesting guys, they're like real tight

36:36

ends, too. Not the Mike Kosicki types. I

36:39

know I'm giving a shout out to Dolphin's

36:41

fans here. So how dare you blaspheme again,

36:43

Kosicki types? What's wrong with those? What's wrong

36:45

with Kosicki types? I like Kosicki types. Can't

36:47

block. block. All

36:50

right, I don't need you disparaging

36:52

Kosicki's around here. Yeah,

36:54

too many Kisiki references

36:56

already. He's an excellent

36:58

renaissance I'm fine with

37:00

Kisiki. You're the one

37:02

who said shit about

37:04

him. I Just

37:06

wanted to block once just

37:08

once just just what he

37:10

does not what he does What's

37:12

the comp for Travis Hunter

37:14

on both sides the ball? The

37:17

one I've gone with for him as a

37:19

receiver is Chad Ochocinco, Chad Johnson. Chad

37:22

was a much better route runner,

37:24

became a very polished route runner, but

37:26

as far as body type and

37:28

skills and ball skills and everything like

37:31

that, they're one -to -one really to

37:33

me. Travis might be a little more

37:35

explosive, but Odell Beckham is another

37:37

comparison I've heard with him, but that

37:39

body type, Twitchy, he's just an

37:41

excellent athlete. And then defensively, I've kind

37:43

of struggled with a few, like

37:45

Asante Samuel Sr. might be one. Um,

37:48

champ Bailey is another one, which is

37:50

maybe the high end comparison. But the

37:52

fact that I'm comparing Chad Johnson and

37:54

champ Bailey to this guy, uh, it

37:56

kind of speaks to how crazy he

37:58

is. He's really the top tier athlete

38:00

I've watched in a long time. Um,

38:02

I grew up around Randy Moss and

38:04

he's kind of the top tier top

38:06

athlete I've ever been around. Bobby

38:08

Bowden. who coached Randy Moss for

38:11

a semester. I think before he

38:13

got kicked off, I had to go

38:15

to Marshall said, hey, Randy Moss or Dion

38:17

Sanders to me is the parameter for

38:19

athleticism and Randy is a bigger Dion. So

38:21

I'm saying Travis Hunter is a smaller Randy

38:23

Moss. Well, then I'm comparing him to Dion, which

38:25

is, you know, kind of in a roundabout

38:27

way. But no matter what, he's a freak athlete

38:29

and there's some rawness with him as a

38:31

receiver, but just the talent and just his athleticism

38:33

that's like he's going to figure it out.

38:35

That's what's so cool about him. Nate,

38:37

while we're doing player comps, what

38:40

tier of prospect is Ashton Gentie? A

38:42

historic season, but is he historically

38:44

a good running back prospect? The

38:46

speed and power don't jump off the

38:48

screen like someone like Adrian Peterson's did.

38:50

Someone just asked me to sound blue

38:52

-sky? Because you said it was a

38:54

good question, so. It was a good question. Yeah,

38:57

I have been like officially quote

38:59

unquote, evaluating guys for about 10 years

39:01

now, 11 years. And the best

39:03

the top tier running back to me,

39:05

my favorite running back prospect was

39:07

Ezekiel Elliott. And then the other guys

39:09

I would say are in that

39:11

top tier are Todd Gurley, Bijan

39:13

Robinson, CMC and St. Juan Barkley. And

39:15

then if I had to like split

39:17

that tier, it's Zeke. And then it

39:19

would be Gurley and Saquon and then

39:21

CMC Bijan. I would put Genti in

39:23

that CMC Bijan tier. So like a tier.

39:25

Do these tiers, do these quadrants come

39:27

to you in your sleep? Like when you're

39:30

actually drinking at night, is this in

39:32

your actual sleep? It is, correct? Yeah.

39:34

Yeah. I grade everything off tiers and then

39:37

everything, everything. Oh, that shower was a blue

39:39

chip shower. Yeah. Yeah. That

39:41

was a day two. Tooth brushing do

39:43

you guys? Do you guys remember

39:45

Nate? Excuse me Nate Nate Tyson's playing

39:47

career. Do any of you remember? This

39:51

interview is longer than my career

39:53

No, do want to give me this?

39:55

I can you guys get me

39:57

the stats from the game? Can or

39:59

does does Nate know this the

40:01

only play one game? Nate, I have

40:03

one stat ever. It's one one

40:05

rush for 17 yards, one touchdown. And

40:08

17 is also how many drinks I had

40:10

that night. So that was to celebrate it. What

40:13

was the score of that game? Oh,

40:15

my God. Didn't we drop 80 on them? And

40:18

then Michael senior called us out.

40:20

And I actually said it was an

40:22

embarrassment to the sport. It

40:24

was like 83 -20, I think. I

40:27

was the human victory cigar in college.

40:29

Wait a minute. You averaged 17 yards

40:31

a carry at Wisconsin? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

40:34

Oh, yeah. One for one, baby.

40:36

One touch, one touchdown. That's how we

40:38

do it. Fishy. believe Indiana made

40:40

the playoff before Wisconsin did? No.

40:43

No. Wisconsin football is

40:45

a little touchy subject right now. It's

40:47

it's not I'm not happy with what's going

40:49

on there running the air rate for two years.

40:52

What are we doing here? Let's

40:54

speed him up a little bit. Let's

40:56

speed him up a little bit before we

40:58

get him out of here and before

41:00

we play naughty or Tice. Are you ready

41:02

to play naughty or Tice? Let's do

41:04

it. Let's do it. First, before we play

41:06

naughty or Tice, just fill in the

41:08

blank. You just mentioned best running back prospect

41:10

you've ever seen best quarterback prospect you

41:12

have ever seen. Andrew Luck. Easily.

41:15

Best he's the best prospect

41:17

ever best offensive lineman prospect

41:19

you have seen Tristan worse

41:21

Best wide receiver prospect you

41:23

have seen oh That's hard

41:26

Marvin Harrison see actually not

41:28

at the lie Julio Jones

41:30

Julio Jones, but that was

41:32

maybe a little before me

41:34

the most likely to be

41:37

transcendent superstar not named Travis

41:39

Hunter is blank Ooh,

41:41

that's a great question. Not

41:44

named, oh, I would say

41:46

Abdul Carter would probably be

41:48

the one. Naughty

41:50

or Tice, Shador

41:52

Sanders deserves to have his

41:54

jersey retired at Colorado. Good

41:56

question. So Tice as

41:58

I agree and Naughty as I do not agree.

42:00

You get it. Don't complicate this Yeah, Naughty or

42:02

Tice. man. Naughty. Naughty.

42:04

Naughty. Naughty. He's naughty. What happened, Billy?

42:07

I just didn't seem to get this

42:09

game. Billy, you're executive producing it. You

42:11

want to help me out? OK. Well,

42:13

Mario and Hampton will be a first -round

42:15

pick in the draft. Naughty or Tice? Tice.

42:20

One word like it. OK. Everyone is

42:22

sick of Aaron Rodgers, and he won't

42:24

be signed before the draft. Naughty or

42:26

Tice? I...

42:28

Tice. I'm not before

42:30

the draft. I think that's gonna be

42:32

a little bit after that. Okay. You want me to

42:34

expand on that running back one? Yeah, there might be

42:36

three running backs that go on the first round. yeah. Yeah.

42:39

All right. Naughty or Tice, Trevor Lawrence

42:41

is not that guy. Naughty.

42:46

Absolutely naughty. No, no Trevor Lawrence is

42:48

legit. Are you saying naughty to him

42:50

not being guy? confused by this game.

42:52

I'm confused which answer means. The

42:54

question was he's not that guy

42:56

and he said not to that. So

42:58

that's too negative. So he's saying

43:00

that he is that guy. But he's

43:02

not positive that Trevor Lawrence is

43:04

good. Why you guys complicating such a

43:06

simple game? I'm positive he's good.

43:08

I'm very positive. He's good. A lot

43:10

of people watching Jacksonville at 1

43:13

p .m. Are we all watching diverse

43:15

tape? Notty or Tice. It's

43:18

very simple. Notty or Tice, Ben Johnson

43:20

will lead the Bears to a winning

43:22

record this season. Tice.

43:24

I think they just go over there.

43:27

I'm actually buying the Bears hype this year.

43:29

Notty or Tice, more than two quarterbacks

43:31

will be taken in the first

43:33

round of the NFL draft this year.

43:37

Notty. I actually, one of my

43:39

bull takes is only one will

43:41

go in the first round. Naughty

43:44

or Tice, Nico Iamaliava got bad

43:46

advice. Oh, Tice,

43:48

he got real bad. Well, Tennessee

43:50

might be happy with it. I

43:53

think he got bad advice trying

43:55

to up the number and everything

43:57

I think he should have just

43:59

taken his Taking his soup and

44:01

been happy with it to be

44:03

honest based on his play So

44:05

I do think he got bad

44:07

expression was that what was that

44:09

expression? What I have no idea

44:11

that was In my head I

44:13

pictured can I have some more

44:15

sir, you know like that came

44:17

to my head Alright, this is

44:19

disgusting from Chris I

44:21

do but to Roy Nate come on

44:23

man Nate it is not naughty or

44:25

Tice and then well Like you got

44:28

a pick either naughty or Tice can

44:30

I can I propose I've been answering

44:32

a comma can I been off to

44:34

naughty or Tice naughty and Tice and

44:36

we ask you a question you tell

44:38

us the naughty side and then from

44:40

the other perspective the people that think

44:42

it's Tice Jackson dart is no longer

44:44

attending the draft in Green Bay because

44:47

he will not be drafted in the

44:49

first round Tice, I

44:51

think he goes in the second. I

44:53

think the Saints do like him though. But he's

44:56

asking you to play the game differently. He's asking

44:58

you to make the argument on one side for

45:00

Naughty. Okay. Naughty side. The

45:02

Naughty side is that he is going

45:04

the first round. He just wanted to be

45:06

with his family and just hang out.

45:08

The Tice side is that actually he's going

45:10

on day two, which is where he

45:12

should be going. I think that's my perspective

45:14

on it. Nate, our guy, our special

45:16

boy Riley Leonard, Naughty or Tice, day two

45:18

player this year. Naughty

45:21

side is that, no, have you watched him

45:23

throw? Oh my God, that's day three. The

45:25

tight side is, oh my God, yes, he's

45:27

a surprising guy that might go on day

45:29

two, maybe even top 90, because he's a

45:32

good athlete, he's tough, and he actually has

45:34

a little bit more arm talent than people

45:36

give him credit for. But yes, that is

45:38

our guy, Jess, me and Michael Jr. Hand

45:41

up, I think I made this game more confusing

45:43

now, because we're not getting any answers. I

45:46

don't know what he believes in, but

45:48

he doesn't anymore. Executive produced by Billy Gill,

45:50

ladies and gentlemen. Naughty or Tice, thank

45:52

you. Wait, one more. Naughty or Tice? Andrew

45:55

Luck, considering the hype and how

45:57

you retired early because of injury. Bust? Naughty.

46:03

I'm not even going with the Tice

46:05

side there. That's not easy. Executive

46:07

produced by Billy Guild. One last question.

46:09

Thank you. Appreciate your time, Nate.

46:11

It is true. Your eyes are lagoons.

46:15

Tice. They are lagoons. Thank

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