0:00

You have this ability to become confident in every

0:02

single area of your life. It's about us

0:04

just learning a new series of behaviors. For

0:06

example, there's something called a siren technique. In

0:08

three, two, and one nieces. I'm crazier than

0:10

usual. Fantastic, that's fantastic, you did a great

0:13

job, right? Okay. And then this next one

0:15

is volume. So critical. Because if I just

0:17

increased my volume and I talk like this,

0:19

I sound a little bit aggressive, don't I?

0:21

But with volume to highlight something, you could

0:23

go very quiet. So it's about waking people

0:26

up to the power of their voice and

0:28

we all have access to these talks. Let's

0:30

go through all five. Vingang is the

0:32

award-winning speaker and communication expert who helps

0:34

people harness the power of their voice

0:36

and body language in all areas of

0:38

their life. Just so overwhelming of how

0:41

many people are overwhelming, speaker and communication

0:43

expert who helps people harness the power

0:45

of their voice and body language in

0:47

all areas of their life. Just so

0:49

overwhelming of how many people are suffering?

0:51

I've got a simple game called High-Level.

0:53

And it gives you three opportunities for

0:55

a conversation to spark. And then I

0:57

just learned all these new behaviors. It

1:00

just completely changed me. And anyone can do this in

1:02

three to six months. And I'm going to teach you. So

1:04

the first thing that really matters is a three-step process I

1:06

call it recording review. It's a three-step process. I call it

1:08

recording review. It's going to be a three-step process. I call

1:10

it recording review. It's going to dramatically change. It's a three-step

1:12

process. I call it. I call it. I call it. It's

1:15

a three-step process. I call it. I call it. It's a

1:17

three-step process. I call it. I call it. It's a three-step

1:19

process. It's a three-step process. I call it. It's a three-a

1:21

three-a three-step process. I call it. I call it. I call

1:23

it. It's a three-step process. I call it we can talk

1:25

about. And we're going to go through them, but some people

1:27

do have severe social anxiety. What you say to those people,

1:29

the first thing I would do is... I

1:32

find it incredibly fascinating that when we look

1:34

at the back end of Spotify and Apple

1:36

and Art audio channels, the majority of people

1:38

that watch this podcast haven't yet hit the

1:41

follow button or the subscribe button, wherever you're

1:43

listening to this, I would like to make

1:45

a deal with you, I would like to

1:47

make a deal with you. If you could

1:49

do me a huge favour and hit that

1:51

subscribe button, I will work tirelessly from now

1:54

until forever to make the show better and

1:56

better and better and better and better. I

1:58

can't tell you how much it. guess you

2:00

want to see and continue to do

2:02

in this thing we love. If you

2:04

could do me that small favor and

2:06

hit the follow button, wherever you're listening

2:08

to this, that would mean the world

2:10

to me. That is the only favor

2:12

I will ever ask you. Thank you

2:15

so much for your time. Back to

2:17

this episode. Then, if you had to

2:19

summarize what it is you do, fundamentally,

2:21

and why you do it, how would

2:23

you summarize it? I help people learn

2:25

that they have access to one of

2:27

the most beautiful instruments in the world.

2:29

that can help them negotiate whatever reality

2:31

they desire. And I learned this through

2:33

my first of a vocal teacher, Miss

2:35

Stanley, and I'll never forget this experience.

2:37

There's a dingy music corner in South

2:39

Australia, and I would go there for

2:41

lessons. And the first time I met

2:43

her, I walked into the room, she's

2:46

old lady, and she says nothing to

2:48

me except the words, sit down, young

2:50

man. So I sit. It feels super

2:52

awkward, it feels super weird. And then

2:54

she plays one key nonstop on the

2:56

piano for two minutes. It's literally, I

2:58

was like, oh shit, this is like

3:00

something out of a horror movie. And

3:02

then she turns around, she goes, how

3:04

do you feel? I said, nothing weird,

3:06

awkward, what? And then she goes, good,

3:08

turns around, plays this beautiful song, called

3:10

Mariage Diamore. Goes up for two minutes.

3:12

And then she turns on, she goes,

3:14

how do you feel? And I said,

3:16

how you feel? And I said, how

3:19

weirded it from before, from before, from

3:21

before, from before, still, still, still, still.

3:23

But I feel, wow, that song had

3:25

love, there was lust, there was romance,

3:27

there was excitement, and she goes, good.

3:29

Honey, most people go through life speaking

3:31

like this. I'm going to teach you

3:33

how to speak like this. And that's,

3:35

to me at the time, I remember

3:37

thinking to myself, that is the greatest

3:39

sales pitch I've ever heard in my

3:41

life. Because I'm now going to sign

3:43

up for 12 classes with you, because

3:45

you've just helped me realize something. I've

3:47

been struggling with my entire life. I

3:50

haven't been thinking about my voice as

3:52

an instrument. I thought it was a

3:54

tool. What do you do with a

3:56

hammer? You use a hammer. What do

3:58

you do with a screwdriver? You use...

4:00

screwdriver. What do you do with the piano?

4:02

You play with it. What do you do

4:04

with the violin? You play with it. And

4:06

she started to teach me that I have

4:08

this instrument, that depending on how I play

4:11

it, it changes and shift how others

4:13

feel. How much do you think that

4:15

will change the trajectory of someone's life?

4:17

Like what is the impact? If I get

4:19

really good at communication, why does

4:21

it matter? I was invisible my entire

4:23

childhood. I was invisible. I wasn't

4:26

the cool-looking kid? I wasn't the

4:28

charismatic kid, I wasn't the funny

4:30

kid, I wasn't the anything kid.

4:32

And by learning this skill, I've been

4:34

able to negotiate an incredible

4:36

reality. And that's why I love

4:38

Tim Ferris' quite so much, reality is

4:41

negotiable, cool. Well, what skill do

4:43

we use to negotiate the reality

4:45

we desire? It's our ability to

4:47

communicate. Teaching that to others

4:49

has been one of the most fulfilling

4:51

things I've ever done. And I

4:53

genuinely believe that makes the world a

4:55

better place. And I almost

4:58

sometimes feel like I'm just here to

5:00

tune pianos. I'm here to help people

5:02

tune and fix and learn how to play.

5:04

And I get so much fulfillment from

5:06

that. My parents have this fundamental belief.

5:08

It's so beautiful. They believe every child

5:10

is born with a diamond, with a

5:13

gift, with something in them. So I

5:15

found one of my diamonds early on.

5:17

It was magic. I was really good

5:19

at magic. They hoped it was medicine,

5:21

accounting, you know, the Asian prophecy. So

5:23

when I found that diamond being magic.

5:25

I thought that all I had to do was

5:28

get really good technically as a magician. Because

5:30

that's what I was sort of

5:32

university being an accountant. Oh, if

5:34

you become really technically proficient as

5:36

an accountant, you'll become an amazing

5:38

accountant. You'll be successful. You get

5:40

the BMW, get everything, get partner.

5:42

So I thought, okay, magic, same

5:45

thing. Get really good technically. Spent

5:47

thousands of hours in my bedroom by

5:49

myself in front of a mirror practicing

5:51

magic. Got nowhere. Because I was missing

5:53

an ingredient in ingredient.

5:55

Right, one of we both inspired by

5:58

the same person I believe one... One

6:00

of the people we're inspired by is Darren

6:02

Brown. Impeccable showmanship. Impeccable technical skills. So when

6:04

you pair technical skills with great communication skills,

6:06

that's when you thrive. I believe. Because let's

6:08

say, for example, you're technically brilliant, you're a

6:11

10 out of 10 technically, but you're three

6:13

out of 10 technically, but you're three out

6:15

of 10, or three out of 10. And

6:17

you know this, hearing so many different pictures.

6:19

Some of the greatest ideas have flown under

6:21

your radaror justice. It's an interesting idea to

6:24

think that we might rise or fall to

6:26

the level, not of our technical ability, but

6:28

our communication skills, as it relates to how

6:30

the world perceives us. And it's both. The

6:32

importance, there is both. Whereas I feel like

6:34

we get stuck into this world where we

6:37

think, oh, it's one or the other. And

6:39

my students always ask me this, which one

6:41

should I focus on? That's if the reality

6:43

is both. It's not as simple, it's both.

6:45

It's both. It's both. Because if I have

6:47

great showmanship, and when I have great showmanship,

6:50

and when it's doing showmanship, and when it

6:52

comes to doing showmanship, when it's doing showmanship,

6:54

when it, when it, when it, when it's

6:56

doing showmanship, when it, when it, when it,

6:58

when it, when it, when it, when it,

7:00

when it, when it, when it, when it,

7:03

when it, when it, when it, when it,

7:05

when it, when it, when it The people

7:07

that I've been able to help the most

7:09

in my career so far are the people

7:11

who are technically so amazing at what they

7:14

do. And they've been hidden away in the

7:16

back office as a technician. And then bloody

7:18

Brad always gets the promotion. Right? Brad always

7:20

gets it. Ah, damn it! Brad got it

7:22

again. Brad's not smart as me. Brad is

7:24

not as good as me. Right? And it's

7:27

because Brad talks better. He's more visible in

7:29

the work environment. You really think it often

7:31

comes down to just how we speak and

7:33

communicate. Because if you can't communicate your value

7:35

in a way that is clear and concise,

7:37

people, it's not their responsibility to see the

7:40

brilliance that exists within you. It's, I believe,

7:42

your responsibility to learn how to shine your

7:44

light brightly. It's super sad because I lived

7:46

a massive part of my life like that.

7:48

English is my third language. The first language

7:50

I learned is a Chinese dialect. Not that

7:53

impressive. My wife speaks five, but thank you.

7:55

The first language I learned was a Chinese

7:57

dialect called Dichiu. It's a bit of detail

7:59

for you. Or see, did you, now? Second

8:01

language, I then had to learn fluently. So

8:03

I went to school, I was completely invisible.

8:06

So I had to learn all these different

8:08

languages growing up. These were my first two

8:10

core languages that if I wasn't proficient in

8:12

it, grammar would be pissed off, mum would

8:14

be pissed off, so we had to study

8:16

it. And then I went to school and

8:19

had to learn English. So I went to

8:21

school, I was completely invisible. I couldn't communicate

8:23

with any other kid. They couldn't communicate with

8:25

me. So what do kids do? Oh, it's

8:27

too hard. I would just ignore you then.

8:29

They believe. Well, yes, I didn't even know

8:32

it was bullying, because I couldn't understand them.

8:34

I could kind of read what they seemed

8:36

mean, but I had no idea what they

8:38

were saying. So I spent so much of

8:40

my childhood, especially in those single-digit years around

8:42

five, six, and seven. This is super sad,

8:45

but I just spent a lot of time

8:47

in the toilet, because I didn't want to

8:49

deal with a shame of being seen by

8:51

myself. So I just hid. I just found

8:53

a corner somewhere somewhere. So then they'll call

8:55

me FOB, FOB, fresh off the boat. And

8:58

they just kept calling me, oh, there's the

9:00

fob, there's the fob, oh, it's so fobbies.

9:02

And then, so then, even though I learn

9:04

the English language now, I'm scared to speak

9:06

it because I don't want to sound like

9:08

a fob. And there were all these challenges.

9:11

And so I know what it's like to

9:13

feel invisible. I know what it's like to

9:15

be ignored. That was a long time ago,

9:17

and I guess the question that leaves me

9:19

with is how easy is it for someone

9:22

to learn? Like what is the time span

9:24

that it would take from the experience you've

9:26

had with teaching people to make a radical

9:28

change in your communication skills? It depends on

9:30

your level of desire and motivation. If you

9:32

really want it? I'd say three to six

9:35

months. You think you can change your communication

9:37

skills in a radical way in three to

9:39

six months? I've seen it. I've seen students

9:41

do it. It's when instead of just thinking

9:43

about I'm trying to learn a new habit,

9:45

it's what James Clear says. You adopt a

9:48

new identity. Where they adopt that new identity.

9:50

Because one of the things I do is

9:52

I share that story about my schooling experience

9:54

at the beginning of my in-person classes and

9:56

I say, I want you all to imagine

9:58

now, you're at a new school. No one

10:01

here in this room with us right now

10:03

has any preconceived idea of who you are.

10:05

Break the mold. Break it. And then you

10:07

see grown adults do things they wouldn't normally

10:09

do. Break out of the old. Play with

10:11

their voice. Be a little silly. Reconect with

10:14

their inner child. And then in that moment

10:16

they fall so deeply in love with that

10:18

version of them because of the reactions they've

10:20

been able to get from all those strangers

10:22

around them that they commit to. It's when

10:24

you experience that change in the moment. It

10:27

usually leads to a fairly profound desire. after

10:29

that. Oh, I want to become this now.

10:31

But then they make a big mistake. And

10:33

the biggest mistake they make is they'll go

10:35

home to their partner and who has no

10:37

context of the experience they've been through. And

10:40

they've just went, oh, I've been quiet with

10:42

my voice my entire life. And they'll go

10:44

home to that. And they'll go home and

10:46

they'll go home to their new, honey. And

10:48

then their partner goes, oh, why are you

10:50

doing that from Vin? That's gross, why are

10:53

you doing that? It's so fake. It's so

10:55

fake. It's so fake. It's so fake. It's

10:57

so fake. It's so fake. It's so fake,

10:59

it's so fake, it's so in authentic. Have

11:01

you seen in those examples change when someone

11:03

learned communication skills? Because we have to, the

11:06

examples we've given so far are just like

11:08

work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With their children.

11:10

This has been the coolest part, because

11:12

I'm a dad. I get, I teach

11:14

a concept called vocal foundations, which we

11:16

can dive into later. And there's these

11:18

beautiful five core vocal foundations that people

11:20

can learn, and I love it when

11:22

parents go through it, because I always

11:24

see these comments, where they said. Oh

11:26

my goodness, just read to the kids,

11:28

they've never reacted to me in that

11:30

way before. The moment, the one night

11:32

I go home and I read to

11:34

my kids and I do it in

11:36

a boring way, they go, dad, don't

11:38

read it like that, do it the

11:40

fun way. And what they're asking for

11:42

is they're asking for that vocal variety,

11:44

they're asking for that in a child,

11:46

for that playfulness. And I think that's

11:48

one of the greatest, I think that's

11:50

one of my greatest superpowers, is the

11:52

ability to be playful to be playful.

11:54

and the winningness to be playful. So

11:56

you're going to help me in work,

11:58

you're going to help me be a

12:00

more entertaining game. are there any other

12:02

areas of one's life that improve when

12:04

they crack communication? Yes, there is an

12:06

area. And the area is improv. Learn

12:08

improvisation. People all want to get better

12:10

at communication. Often it's because they want

12:12

to get better at conversations. What is

12:14

a game of conversation? What are we

12:16

doing right now? What are we doing?

12:18

This is a game of improv. I

12:20

don't know what you're going to say.

12:22

You don't know what I'm going to

12:24

say. And then based on what I

12:26

say, you've never done improv before. you

12:28

are amazing at improv, because that's a

12:30

skill you had to have developed to

12:32

become the incredible podcaster that you are

12:35

right now. So that to me is

12:37

such an important skill when you're playing

12:39

with your kids too. It helps you

12:41

with all areas of life. It's the

12:43

tide that lifts all boats. Because kids

12:45

love to play. They'll say something like,

12:47

oh, and then the cow now is

12:49

an astronaut. And most parents will, ah,

12:51

that's cool, honey, that's cool. No play.

12:53

Now it's also fighting zombieses that exists

12:55

that exist on the moon. That exists

12:57

on the moon. And you didn't on

12:59

the moon. And you didn't know. And

13:01

you didn't know. And you didn't know.

13:03

And you. And you. And you. And

13:05

when you're playing, what are you using?

13:07

You're using your ability to communicate. And

13:09

how many people have you taught in

13:11

person and or online? Oh, over 70,000

13:13

now. Wow. Yeah. You have millions and

13:15

millions and millions of followers online as

13:17

well that tune in to learn communication

13:19

skills from you, from all around the

13:21

world. And if I was to zoom

13:23

in on the dams that you get,

13:25

the things that people are struggling with

13:27

when they message you, the reason why

13:29

they watch your videos, what is it?

13:31

The most common message that we get

13:33

when people type a comment and leave

13:35

it on our videos is, is it

13:37

possible for me to change the sound

13:39

of my voice? Really? Well, because you

13:41

think about it, right? Nobody likes the

13:43

sound of their own voice. The first

13:45

time you heard yourself on a podcast,

13:47

well, you're like, oh no, or did

13:49

you say, I love it? Look how

13:51

sexy I sound. When I was younger

13:53

and I was, like, like, a cassette

13:55

recorders, and I had my voice, I

13:57

thought, I could know who's going to

13:59

know who's who's who's who's who's that,

14:01

I could know who's that, I could

14:03

know who's, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's,

14:05

who's, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's,

14:07

who's, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's,

14:09

who's, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's, who's

14:11

first become problem aware with the communication

14:13

skills. Is it possible for me to

14:15

change the sound of my voice? Is

14:17

it possible? is it possible? And when

14:19

you reflect upon this, even when you

14:21

reflect upon this, most people in their

14:23

entire life will never change the way

14:25

they sound. They will never change the

14:27

way they communicate. They'll never change the

14:29

way they communicate. They'll change the way

14:31

they dress, they'll change their hair, they'll

14:33

change their glasses, they'll change all these

14:35

things about themselves. But the way they

14:37

communicate and the way they sound, stays

14:40

consistent, generally. I'll share with you a

14:42

few of these, okay? With my vocal

14:44

teacher, at the beginning of my journey,

14:46

when she got me to do things

14:48

with my voice, where she said, all

14:50

right, let's do a really high voice,

14:52

have a bit of a play, even,

14:54

go into falsetto, and she'd make me

14:56

do things like this, because I'd go,

14:58

oh, that feels so weird. Oh, now

15:00

I'm becoming so deep with my voice.

15:02

This feels so fake, and it feels

15:04

phony. And when I do it with

15:06

my students, that's the immediate thing that

15:08

comes up. They go, it's fake, it's

15:10

phony. That's not me. And then now,

15:12

just like my vocal teacher, she would

15:14

always challenge me. She goes, well, if

15:16

you could make the sound and you

15:18

played the key on your piano, you

15:20

described to me then, how is it

15:22

fake? How is it fake? If you

15:24

were able to make that sound, that

15:26

is you, that is your instrument, you

15:28

playing with keys you're unfamiliar with. That's

15:30

it. You've gone through this entire life

15:32

being so familiar with this key, that

15:34

any time you press any other key,

15:36

you go, oh, it's not me. No,

15:38

no, no. You're just familiar with this

15:40

key, and you're unfamiliar with the others.

15:42

That alone helped me understand that, oh,

15:44

wow. It's not fake. Because for the

15:46

longest time, I thought it was fake.

15:48

And because I thought it was fake,

15:50

I never changed the way I told.

15:52

And why is it that we don't

15:54

want to play with those other keys?

15:56

We've got so used to playing with

15:58

a particular set of keys and... You're

16:00

so familiar with it. Playing the other

16:02

keys comes at a cost, a perceived

16:04

cost. It goes deeper than that. It

16:06

goes even deeper than... that because where

16:08

did you get your voice from? Who

16:10

did you learn it from? There's an

16:12

idea that people have in their minds

16:14

about this thing called a natural voice.

16:16

This is another objection my students give

16:18

me. They go, oh that's not my

16:20

natural voice. And speech pathologists will tell

16:22

you this. The voice you have right

16:24

now is not your natural voice. You

16:26

lost access to your natural voice when

16:28

you were two or three. Question. If

16:30

I asked you to scream at the

16:32

top of your lungs right now for

16:34

about ten minutes, what would happen to

16:36

your voice? Oh, at least. Yeah. My

16:38

daughter, 12 months old, can scream for

16:40

three hours, Stephen. And she does not

16:43

lose her voice. Because they have this

16:45

beautiful access to their instrument. They can

16:47

naturally access that instrument. Whereas as we

16:49

grow older at the age of three

16:51

or four, we start to be inspired

16:53

by certain people in our circles. As

16:55

a result of being inspired by people,

16:57

what do kids do? They emulate, they

16:59

copy. So the voice that you've developed,

17:01

you've copied that based on the people

17:03

you're inspired by when you were young.

17:05

It's just a series of habits. The

17:07

way you speak, the way you sound

17:09

is just a series of behaviors. It's

17:11

how you manipulate your vocal chords, how

17:13

you move air through your body, how

17:15

you shape your lips, where you place

17:17

your teeth, how you maneuver your tongue,

17:19

how you maneuver your soft palate. Depending

17:21

on how you do all of that,

17:23

you create a certain sound. But if

17:25

I change now, as you said, people

17:27

are going to think I'm weird. Well

17:29

that's right, but that's the thing, you

17:31

have to have a process. to go

17:33

about that change. Because if you immediately

17:35

just talked tonight with your partner with

17:37

no context, they'll go free food. She'll

17:39

go free food. She'll like, what the

17:41

hell? Why did you, why did you

17:43

tell the podcast? Yeah, why? You know,

17:45

you're fake. Yeah, right? We'll get to

17:47

that in the moment. What I'm saying

17:49

is that the reason why you don't

17:51

move from that is because you genuinely

17:53

feel stuck. I'll give you the reason

17:55

behind it. Beautiful software of speaking. And

17:57

what he didn't realize is that in

17:59

the beginning of his life, he saw

18:01

dad do it, really inspired by dad,

18:03

so he copied dad. So he had

18:05

to consciously think about all these little

18:07

behaviors, all these nuances to copy dad

18:09

sound. And then after you repeat... those

18:11

behaviors for one year, two years, you

18:13

no longer have to consciously think about

18:15

it, because you've mastered it. So now

18:17

those behaviors move from your conscious mind

18:19

and moves into your subconscious mind. And

18:21

then when behaviors move into your subconscious

18:23

mind, now it feels automatic. So now

18:25

you feel like it's you. So now

18:27

you feel like it's you. So now

18:29

you feel like it's you. So now

18:31

you don't doubt it. No, no, no,

18:33

that's me. It's still just a series

18:35

of behaviors of behaviors. Yeah. And the

18:37

moment these things happen, it's incredible seeing

18:39

these changes, because all my students will

18:41

do is they'll change three things. More

18:43

volume, more melody, bigger hand gestures, people

18:45

completely change the way they perceive them.

18:48

Three simple things that they do, creates

18:50

a profound change in how others perceive

18:52

them. Volume, melody, and hand gestures. Yeah,

18:54

I was thinking to one example of

18:56

one of my students who, a female

18:58

Rachel, who felt like she didn't have

19:00

great executive presence. And it was because

19:02

she became, she labelled herself as being

19:04

shy. And I like to break these

19:06

things out for my students too. I'm

19:08

like, the reason you're shy and the

19:10

reason you're really good at being shy

19:12

is because you've been repeating the shy

19:14

behaviors for the last 25 years. So

19:16

you're really good at it. And that's

19:18

all right. It's because you've been practicing

19:20

shy for 25 years. Being more confident,

19:22

it's about us just learning a new

19:24

series of behaviors. Let's try a larger

19:26

gesture. I've seen this on multiple podcasts,

19:28

I'll just try a larger gesture. Try

19:30

a stronger volume. Try being more melodic

19:32

with your voice. And then she was

19:34

practicing that, and immediately the feelings of,

19:36

oh, it feels fake, if it was

19:38

fun, I go, oh no, she's unfamiliar.

19:40

And the moment she makes that reset,

19:42

she goes, oh, I'll continue to explore

19:44

them. Whereas if she thinks it's fake,

19:46

she'll revert back to being who she

19:48

was before. So how do I speak

19:50

who I speak who I speak impromptu,

19:52

in prompt to, in the moment, and

19:54

come up with a good answer. Another

19:56

one is... I'm introverted. Does that mean

19:58

that I'm doomed? Okay. Yeah? And

20:00

another really common one

20:02

is I don't have much connection

20:04

in my life. I wish I

20:07

felt more connected to the

20:09

people that I'm around. Why is

20:11

it that I can't get past the

20:13

the... Good day mate, how are you?

20:15

Yeah, mate, how are you? Yeah, I'm

20:18

good. All right, cheers, mate, have a

20:20

good one. Oh, the small talk. Yeah,

20:22

yeah, this is a big topic, right?

20:24

So again, it's just, how do we

20:27

get to these conversations like that you

20:29

get? almost like a billion search results

20:31

on Google for people trying to figure

20:34

out or trying to provide answers to

20:36

how to communicate successfully. So let's get

20:38

into it. So I use this term

20:40

vocal image. Yeah. What does vocal image

20:42

mean? It came about when I realize I spend

20:45

and I think most of I spend a lot

20:47

of time on our visual image, right?

20:49

How we look, our body language, the way

20:51

we dress. But very rarely do people

20:53

spend time on their vocal image. Now,

20:55

it would make it make sense. When people

20:57

see you. and you reveal your visual

21:00

image, they make assumptions about

21:02

you pretty quickly. So they

21:04

form assumptions, oh this person

21:06

seems friendly, maybe they're confident

21:08

because they got good posture,

21:10

maybe they're smiling, they're

21:12

friendly, and then all of a

21:14

sudden when you open your mouth and you

21:16

speak, they now turn these assumptions

21:18

into beliefs. What may be

21:20

assumptions before, now they go, oh,

21:22

you are friendly, you are confident, right?

21:25

Or they might think, oh no, a

21:27

bit of a wanker, right? go meet

21:29

them, you're like, oh, not really nice.

21:31

That's weird. So it's another layer that

21:33

we don't think about though, because we

21:36

again think we're stuck with our voice,

21:38

we think we're stuck with the way

21:40

we communicate, we think there's

21:42

no way for me to ever

21:44

change this. So let's talk about

21:46

how we communicate, we think there's

21:48

no way for me to ever

21:51

change this. So let's talk about

21:53

how one can improve their vocality,

21:55

what the hell is melody? Well,

21:57

because there's a melody that lives

21:59

underneath your voice. Alright, let's do an experiment.

22:01

I want to play you a piano song

22:03

and I want you to listen to this

22:05

and then you're at home right now. I

22:08

want you to listen to the track and

22:10

see what words come to mind. So we'll

22:12

just play, we'll play the song. Okay, yeah.

22:14

All right, sadness. Right, so if listeners at

22:16

home could have a voice here too, that's

22:18

maybe say, that would say, sombre, nostalgic. Yeah,

22:21

right. All these words would come up. And

22:23

again, if we sat with this for a

22:25

while, we'd get plenty of words. Let's try

22:27

another one. So let's change the mood. Let's

22:29

shift to something like this. See, all of

22:32

a sudden now, and I'm thinking running towards

22:34

something, right? And again, there's a part of

22:36

me that thinks, oh, cheesy commercial, right? There's

22:38

that part of it, too. So you can

22:40

hear all these different things. Let's try one

22:43

more. This one, we'll shift gears again. What

22:45

about this one? three-year-old stood on the landing

22:47

of the staircase at nighttime. Yes, with long

22:49

black hair. Yeah. Yes, correct. So that again

22:51

all of a sudden paints all these different

22:54

vivid pictures in your head. The reason I

22:56

did that experiment is there were no words

22:58

in any of those tracks. Yet, think about

23:00

all of the words that rushed to your

23:02

mind as you were experiencing the melody, the

23:05

melody, the different notes. What people failed to

23:07

realize is that you have a melody in

23:09

your voice. Yeah. This is why when some

23:11

people walk into our lives it could drain

23:13

the energy from our lives and when they

23:15

walk in you feel the impact of them

23:18

walking in right in the negative way or

23:20

a positive way some walk in and you

23:22

go oh I feel good I feel great

23:24

what is that it's the melody in which

23:26

they come in with can you have a

23:29

pretty limited range a limited melody but still

23:31

hit people with scary and and sad and

23:33

inspiring. I believe you can. Yeah. Again, because

23:35

we generally don't have ADA keys, right? So

23:37

again, it's one of those, it's a metaphor,

23:40

but I believe that we can create so

23:42

many different songs with our voice if we

23:44

learn to treat it as an instrument. And

23:46

we can play with the technique to help

23:48

you increase your vocal range if you want.

23:51

Sure. There's something called a, this is fun.

23:53

There's something called a siren technique, a siren

23:55

technique is when you... you read something with

23:57

a low voice and then you go towards

23:59

a high voice and you go back down

24:02

to a low voice. So now I don't

24:04

want you to do it to start with,

24:06

I just want you to read this as

24:08

you would and then we'll try the siren

24:10

technique. So just read it as you would

24:12

neutrally first. So just read that as you

24:15

would, neutrally first. So just read that as

24:17

you would, neutrally first. So just read that

24:19

as you would. Just read that as you

24:21

would, neutrally first. So just read that as

24:23

you, just read that as you, just read

24:26

that as you would, just read that as

24:28

you would, just read that as you would,

24:30

read that as you would, just read that

24:32

as you would, just read that as you

24:34

would, just read that as you would, just

24:37

read that as you would, just read that

24:39

as you would, just read that as you

24:41

would, just read that as you would, just

24:43

read that as you would, just read that

24:45

as you would, just read that, Mommy gets

24:48

the kitchen knife to defend herself. He doesn't

24:50

like that, not one bit. So me watching,

24:52

he takes the knife to her, laughing while

24:54

he does it, turns to me, and he

24:56

says, why so serious, son? Comes at me

24:59

with the knife. Why so serious? He sticks

25:01

the blade in my mouth. Let's put a

25:03

smile on that face. And why so serious?

25:05

Beautiful. What movie is that from? No idea.

25:07

I don't want to. Oh, are you serious?

25:09

Dark night, the joker. Okay, well, so he's

25:12

glad you're so amazing. Okay, great. So again,

25:14

you read that in your neutral voice. Now

25:16

what we're going to do is we're going

25:18

to play with the instrument. Okay. So the

25:20

saran technique is when you read with a

25:23

really low voice and then gradually you go

25:25

to a high voice and I'm going to

25:27

challenge you to go into the falsetone, not

25:29

be afraid to play, to play, to play,

25:31

to play, to play, to play, to play,

25:34

to play, to play, to play, to play,

25:36

to play, to play, to play, to play,

25:38

to play, to play, to play, to play,

25:40

to play, to play, to play, to play,

25:42

to play, just play, just play, just play,

25:45

just play, just play, just play, just play,

25:47

and, and, and, and, and it, and it,

25:49

and high at the bottom, within each sentence

25:51

I want you to go up and down,

25:53

up and down, I really want you to

25:56

play with your voice. Otherwise I'm going to

25:58

push you. Okay, okay, in three, two, go

26:00

for... What I know, oh I've got these

26:02

scars. My father was a drinker and kind

26:04

of fiend. Good. And more nahidders are crazier

26:07

than you sure. Mommy gets the... It's nice

26:09

to defend herself. Good. Wow. Hurts. Now try

26:11

to go in a way where it is

26:13

a little more even. Just give it a

26:15

go. But normally you won't be able to

26:17

because you won't have all of the range

26:20

fully expanded. Try again. Keep guy. He doesn't

26:22

like that. Not one bit. Good. So me

26:24

watching. He takes a knife to her. Yes.

26:26

Laughing while he does it. Good. Turns to

26:28

me. And he says. Well, he's so serious,

26:31

son. Fantastic. That's fantastic. You did a great

26:33

job, right? But you feel that feeling you

26:35

feel right now. Yeah, weird. Yes. And it's

26:37

not so much about getting you to speak

26:39

like that on the podcast, but it's more

26:42

just helping you realize this instrument that you

26:44

have is capable of so much more. Yeah.

26:46

There is so much more that it can

26:48

do as opposed to what we normally do

26:50

with it. Right? Because for the longest time

26:53

in my life, I didn't have any melody.

26:55

Because I just thought this was how you

26:57

talk. And the reason I can switch to

26:59

this very quickly, Stephen, is because I practice

27:01

these behaviors for about 25 years. What's even

27:04

more interesting is they've done studies where they

27:06

had five or six people talking at the

27:08

same time. And the person who the person

27:10

heard was the person who had more melody

27:12

in their voice. Oh, really? The person who

27:14

is more melodic, what they say becomes more

27:17

memorable. Whereas if all of us were speaking

27:19

like this, me, Jack, Jack, everyone, all of

27:21

a sudden, you wouldn't be able to hear

27:23

the difference. was all of a sudden if

27:25

you just start to play with your voice

27:28

a little more. How do you know you've

27:30

not played with it too far? Do you

27:32

know what I'm saying? By playing with it

27:34

too far and then getting feedback. Right. And

27:36

people are so afraid of that though. And

27:39

they don't realize that they don't go too

27:41

far, they underplay. The risk is not going

27:43

far enough. Again at this point when people

27:45

heard me squeaking like Mickey Mouse. Yeah, yeah.

27:47

They're going to say, fuck me, like, you're

27:50

going to remind me, then why this is

27:52

worth it, then why this is worth it.

27:54

you'll be able to make people feel more

27:56

connected to you. They'll feel what you're saying,

27:58

not just hear what you're saying. I mean,

28:01

do you notice this in some people? Of

28:03

course. They will say things, but you don't

28:05

feel it. Yeah. It happens in America's got

28:07

talent, Australia's got talent, where Simon Cowell will

28:09

say, right, right, very good, but I don't

28:11

feel it. What are they talking about? It's

28:14

the emotion in their voice. There is emotion

28:16

in their voice. There is emotion in your

28:18

voice, too. Do you want to go to

28:20

the next one? I don't feel it. What

28:22

are they talking about? It's the emotion. It's

28:25

the emotion in their emotion in their voice.

28:27

It's the emotion in their voice. It's the

28:29

emotion in their voice. And see, tell me,

28:31

please tell me, you know this movie. Far

28:33

out, Stephen. I don't know who you are.

28:36

I don't know what you want. If you

28:38

are looking for ransom, I can tell you

28:40

that I don't have money. But I do

28:42

have, but what I do have are a

28:44

very particular set of skills. Skills I have

28:47

acquired over a very long career. Skills that

28:49

make me a nightmare for people like you.

28:51

If you let my daughter go now, that'll

28:53

be the end of it. I will not

28:55

look for you, I will not pursue you,

28:58

but if you don't, I will look for

29:00

you, I will find you, and I will

29:02

kill you. Yes, very dark movies. I love

29:04

these movies. What movie is this? That is

29:06

the movie called Where He's God Against Kidnapped.

29:08

What's it called? He's like, oh, did he?

29:11

Yes, that's from Elle, his name. Lion King,

29:13

I'm joking. What is it? Right, from Take

29:15

Him. But here's the thing. So the thing.

29:17

So the next foundation. So the next foundation.

29:19

So the next foundation. So the rate of

29:22

rate of rate of rate of speech. Okay,

29:24

so if you were reading that, and I

29:26

was kind of just giving you some coaching,

29:28

again, as you were reading that, think of

29:30

rate of speech of having a scale from

29:33

0 to 10. Yeah. All right, so one

29:35

being painfully slow, and 10 being as quickly

29:37

as you possibly can, right? So you were

29:39

around playing around a five. Very comfortable, that's

29:41

your around playing around a five. Very comfortable,

29:44

that's your default rate of speech. We fall

29:46

victim to a default rate of speech. When

29:48

you think about rate of speech, there's a

29:50

way to a rate of speech, there's a...

29:52

If you really want to highlight a point

29:55

creating an auditory highlight, slow down. That creates

29:57

an auditory highlight. It's like a highlighter with

29:59

your words. And if you want to be

30:01

able to show charisma energy, you speed up.

30:03

And if it's not as important, you can

30:05

speed up. That's fine. This simple rule gives...

30:08

you vocal variety with your rate of speech.

30:10

That's simple rule. And what does changing my

30:12

rate of speech then do to the message

30:14

I'm communicating? It makes it more glimmerable, clear,

30:16

okay. There's more clarity in it, right? So

30:19

for example, if I was speaking, if I

30:21

was speaking, if I was speaking, if I

30:23

was speaking, if I was speaking, if I

30:25

was speaking, if I was speaking, if I

30:27

was speaking, if I was speaking, then, if

30:30

there's more clarity in it, right? So for

30:32

example, if I, if I'm speaking, if I'm

30:34

speaking, I'm speaking, I'm going to take you

30:36

through the core five vocal foundations. All of

30:38

a sudden you now have a point of

30:41

focus. And the big thing that people want

30:43

with their communication is clarity. Well, if you

30:45

are going to be more clear, the delivery

30:47

needs to be clear so that the receiver

30:49

gets what you intend. It's not just about

30:52

the exchange of information, because how I say

30:54

something impacts how you receive it. So I

30:56

want to slow down where I want to

30:58

hit emphasis. Yes. And this script has multiple

31:00

places where you want to slow down. When

31:03

people are nervous. Yes. What happens? They speed

31:05

up? They speed up? They speed up? Considerably.

31:07

Considerably. And have they ever measured that? Does

31:09

anybody know? If you get above 210 words

31:11

per minute, you'll be a little bit too

31:13

fast. And what's the average person speaking in

31:16

terms of words per minute? Around 150. You

31:18

want to get to around 150, 180. That's

31:20

very good. That's a good kind of rate

31:22

of speech to be at. Whereas if you're

31:24

slower than that, then again, it just gets

31:27

a little bit monotonous at times for people.

31:29

But again. But again. If all of a

31:31

sudden now, I stick to a default melody

31:33

and then stick to a default rate of

31:35

speech, notice what's happening in your brain. Right?

31:38

All of a sudden you start to... Again,

31:40

you start to switch off, right? Whereas all

31:42

of a sudden, if I start to vary

31:44

my rate of speech, the transition from slow

31:46

to fast is what's hooking people. So if

31:49

you were to try to read that again

31:51

now, but I want you to slow... and

31:53

some bits painfully slow down and play with

31:55

your voice. Okay, I'm going to start from

31:57

here. Sure. If you're looking for a ransom...

32:01

I can tell you that I

32:03

don't have money. But what I do

32:05

have are a particular set of

32:07

skills. Skills I have acquired over a

32:09

very long career. If you let

32:11

my daughter go, that will be the

32:14

end of it. I will not

32:16

look for you. I will not pursue

32:18

you, but if you don't. I

32:20

will look for you. I will find

32:22

you and I will kill you. Yes,

32:25

give me a big round of

32:27

applause. That was amazing, right? But again,

32:29

you feel so strange when you

32:31

do it. Yeah, I do. It's so

32:33

fun to listen to. And again,

32:36

this is us practicing. This is a

32:38

safe environment. I'm not doing your next

32:40

podcast like that. But again, it

32:42

just goes to show the range that

32:45

we have access to. And how

32:47

it changes the message in such a

32:49

profound way, it's the same words.

32:51

It's the same words, but when you

32:53

read it the first time, it didn't

32:56

sound scary at all. Now I

32:58

feel scared. There's something, I noticed this

33:00

in like board meetings and stuff,

33:02

especially with like younger team members or

33:04

people that would class themselves as

33:06

being shy, that they do hurry along.

33:09

And there is a certain, someone

33:11

said to me the other day that

33:13

people that have the most... confidence and

33:15

charisma. They like move and talk

33:17

as if they were a lion. You

33:20

know, they're slow and they're composed.

33:22

Pray versus predator. I remember listening to

33:24

the episode is fantastic. Yeah. There

33:26

is. It's people who are confident take

33:28

their time. What's that third one? Okay.

33:31

Just read part of it. You're

33:33

more than happy to freestyle. Read part

33:35

of it. Now if you know

33:37

what you're worth. then go out and

33:39

get what you were worth, but

33:41

you have to be willing to take

33:44

the hits and not pointing fingers saying

33:46

you went where you want to

33:48

be because of him or her or

33:50

anybody. Cowards do that and that

33:52

ain't you. You're better than that. Now,

33:55

the thing is, this next one

33:57

is volume. Oh shit. Yeah. Volume so

33:59

critical. Okay. For many different reasons.

34:01

Volume is the lifeblood of your voice.

34:03

Volume carries all the other foundations you're

34:06

about to learn. Volume carries the

34:08

melody. Volume carries the rate of speech.

34:10

It carries everything. And again, I

34:12

think of it as having a scale

34:15

from one to ten. And a

34:17

lot of the times, like what you

34:19

just did, people are around a three.

34:21

A four. And they stay around

34:23

there. When you use volume there's two

34:26

ways to Auditorily highlight something with

34:28

volume volumes fascinating because with way to

34:30

speech you slow down But with

34:32

volume to highlight something you could go

34:34

very quiet Okay, so if all of

34:37

a sudden I wanted to say

34:39

something scary I could lower my volume

34:41

and say it But then all

34:43

of a sudden notice what happens if

34:45

I just stay here now What

34:47

started as a great verbal highlight now

34:50

just kind of seems doesn't seem

34:52

effective anymore because if you make something

34:54

default, it becomes non-functional. And what signals

34:56

I'm not a confident person? What

34:58

side of the scale? The lower scale.

35:01

On volume. Because that's one of

35:03

the default shy behaviors that a lot

35:05

of people exhibit. And what about

35:07

leaders? Where do they land on the

35:09

scale? Depends if they're self-aware. Sometimes if

35:12

they're not self-aware, they can be

35:14

on the higher end. And that's, you

35:16

know... You just have someone come

35:18

across as a little arrogant, sometimes it's

35:20

just too much volume. Because too

35:22

much volume without the other foundations, now

35:25

you come across arrogant. So again, if

35:27

I give this back to you,

35:29

and again, just for fun, like, I

35:31

want you to go loud. I

35:33

want people to hear outside of this

35:36

studio what we're doing, right? So

35:38

just have a go. And give me

35:40

a whisper too. At some point,

35:42

give me a whisper too. Now if

35:45

you know what you're worth. to

35:52

take the hits and not pointing fingers

35:54

saying you ain't where you want to

35:56

be because of him or her or

35:58

anybody. Cowards do that! And that ain't

36:00

you! You're better than that. Oh, it's

36:02

amazing. What you just did made me

36:05

feel, why did I feel, is what

36:07

is a voice? A voice is a

36:09

series of vibrations. So you just sent

36:11

vibrations my way that made me feel.

36:13

That's why we say people have good

36:15

vibes. We understand it's happening, but we

36:17

understand it's happening, it's happening, it's happening

36:19

at a physical level. where, depending on

36:21

how you use your voice, you're genuinely

36:23

moving people quite physically. We did rate

36:25

of speech, we did volume, we did

36:27

the melody, yeah. And then there's two

36:30

left, right? There's two left, right? So

36:32

this one, read it as you would,

36:34

parts of it. And it's not because

36:36

I'm lonely. And it's not because it's

36:38

New Year's Eve. I came here tonight,

36:40

because when you realize you want to

36:42

spend the rest of your life for

36:44

somebody, you want the rest of your

36:46

life to start as soon as soon

36:48

as possible. is the emotion that exists

36:50

within your voice, tonality. This is the

36:52

emotion that exists, right? So the way

36:55

to add more emotion into your voice

36:57

is to move your face. Because as

36:59

I eloquently put it at times, your

37:01

face is the remote control that allows

37:03

you to add emotion into your voice.

37:05

So let's play, right? So now, I'll

37:07

give you different faces to make, I'll

37:09

tell you different faces to make, and

37:11

you make those different faces to make,

37:13

and you make those different faces, and

37:15

you make those different faces, And try

37:17

your best to play with this. I

37:20

want you to make disgust, like just

37:22

er, disgust, and let that come through

37:24

and give me a more volume. Give

37:26

me disgust in three, two. And it's

37:28

not because you're lonely. Yeah. And it's

37:30

not because it's New Year's Eve. Surprised.

37:32

Really surprised. I came here tonight because

37:34

when you realize you want to spend

37:36

the rest of your life... You want

37:38

the rest of your life to start

37:40

as soon as possible? That's so beautiful.

37:43

You know this already, you know brain.

37:45

there's mirror neurons, right? And when I

37:47

see you go through these different facial

37:49

expressions, I feel what you feel. Even

37:51

though I know this is a situation

37:53

we've created here for us to experiment,

37:55

and it's a safe environment, but every

37:57

time you went through any of those

37:59

emotions, I felt it. Because I didn't

38:01

just see it. Are men worse at

38:03

this stuff? Yes, they are. Yes, because

38:05

I feel, well for me, I can

38:08

only speak personally for me, I was

38:10

taught to keep my emotions on the

38:12

inside. I'm the inside. Composed. Composed at

38:14

all times. And then that's what I

38:16

thought, and that led me to the

38:18

behaviour of speaking. Whereas I would just

38:20

always speak like this, because I'm a

38:22

man, and I should always speak like

38:24

this. And I still remember going to

38:26

one of the concerts, and my life

38:28

turns up, she goes, how do you

38:30

feel? I'm like, this is a really

38:33

exciting concert. And she goes, well, okay,

38:35

you obviously hate it. And I'm like,

38:37

no, I love it. I love it.

38:39

I love it. I love it. I

38:41

love it. I love it. I love

38:43

it. I love it. I love it.

38:45

I love it. I love it. I

38:47

love it. I love it. I love

38:49

it. I love it. I love it.

38:51

And that damaged a lot of my

38:53

relationships. Because here's the thing that I

38:55

think, and it might be helpful for

38:58

you too, when you're listening to someone

39:00

talk, you don't have to react with

39:02

sound, because otherwise you'll be seen as

39:04

interrupting the other person, right? You can

39:06

react with the person, right? You can

39:08

be seen as interrupting the other person,

39:10

right? You can react with facial expressions.

39:12

And that is one of the most

39:14

powerful ways to show them you're listening,

39:16

and that you're following. They're looking at

39:18

you for most of the conversation, so

39:20

95% of the conversations on you. Yes.

39:23

What they don't know is that throughout

39:25

that time, I'm basically talking to you

39:27

with my face. You are, and you're

39:29

really good at it. So if I

39:31

turn my head like this, it means

39:33

tell me more. So I'll be, you'll

39:35

be talking to a girl like this.

39:37

And it means tell me more. And

39:39

then it's interesting. And you can expand

39:41

that range. It doesn't just have to

39:43

be curious. And because I see you

39:45

do it. I see you do it.

39:48

I see you consistently do the different

39:50

faces to give me the cue to

39:52

almost go, oh, he wants to elaborate.

39:54

Oh, he's in, he's locked in. Do

39:56

you know, you can, the thing I've

39:58

learned from the thing I've learned from

40:00

by speaking I've learned from by speaking.

40:02

on stage, but also doing this is

40:04

you can also fuck it up. You

40:06

can also communicate the wrong thing. Yes.

40:08

Accidentally, one of them that people communicate

40:10

quite often, where that accidentally,

40:13

is they start talking while

40:15

you're speaking. Do you ever know

40:17

that? Like when someone's listening to speak, they

40:19

start, they start going like this. Yeah, yeah,

40:21

yeah, yeah, yeah. And it means shut the

40:23

fuck up. I need to, I have something

40:26

to say. Yes. You know, I think, who

40:28

was on the phone with us? It was

40:30

Vanessa, she said, if you do the fast

40:32

nod, it means shut the fuck up. So if

40:34

you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you

40:37

do the slow nod, it means, oh, I love this.

40:39

So if I go, oh, I'd learn something. That's curiosity,

40:41

tell me more. Versus, yeah. Yeah. Versus, yeah. Yeah, yeah,

40:43

yeah, and wave my hand, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. Okay,

40:45

so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, let's, let's,

40:48

let's, let's, so, so, let's, so, so, so, let's, so,

40:50

so, so, so, let's, so, let's, so, so, so, let's,

40:52

so, so, so, so, so, so, so, let's, so, so, let's,

40:54

so, so, so, so, so, let's, And then imagine

40:56

you start to vary your rate of

40:58

speech now. You're very volume. You've

41:01

got different melody. You've also got

41:03

different facial expressions. This is

41:05

such a rich song that you're playing now.

41:07

Do you think much about the actual words

41:09

you're saying as well? Of course. You can

41:12

see that you think about the structure of

41:14

what you're saying. Because when you start speaking,

41:16

I notice that you often go into a

41:18

story straight away. Something interesting. You'll say

41:21

this is one of the greatest things

41:23

I've learned from my teacher. Is that

41:25

intentional? It is. Because I believe stories

41:27

are more sticky than me just throwing

41:30

you a bunch of tips and hacks

41:32

and tricks. Do you have a storytelling

41:34

formula? I do. What is the

41:36

storytelling formula? I think the way

41:38

most people tell stories is they

41:40

report stories. So I'll share a story with

41:43

you. And reporting a story is,

41:45

let's say you asked me the question,

41:47

this is one of my favorite stories.

41:49

Let's say you asked me how I met my

41:51

wife and a bar. and I did some magic toy, she

41:53

didn't like it and that was cool. And then I

41:55

gradually was able to woo her in the end, but

41:57

I met her at a bar. That's me, that's me.

42:00

reporting the story. Right? It's kind of

42:02

sounds like a news reporter. Yeah. So

42:04

if you think about it again, let

42:06

me just anchor it with a news

42:08

reporter. It's like a news reporter saying,

42:10

last night at a bar at 9

42:12

p.m. Vinjiang went to a bar called

42:14

Distill and tried to pick up a

42:16

girl, did a cheesy magic trick, it

42:18

didn't work. Therefore he failed. He came

42:20

back four times again, and then he

42:22

saw her, and then he succeeded, and

42:24

now they married. On to the next

42:26

news. Because... This happened in 2009. I

42:28

crashed a girl's graduation party named Vivian.

42:30

It was at a bar called Distill.

42:32

This beautiful bar called Distill. And there

42:34

was two levels to this bar on

42:36

the bottom. It was for everybody. And

42:38

on top was the high rollers. And

42:40

you had to buy expensive drinks to

42:42

get to the top. And I got

42:44

to the top and I saw this

42:46

beautiful Malaysian girl sitting by the bar.

42:48

So I said to my friends, I

42:50

said, watch this. And I take a

42:52

packet of cards out on my pants.

42:54

Because I'm a magician. if I transform

42:56

this king of hearts into the queen

42:58

of hearts like yourself. Disgusted. I know,

43:00

you're making the disgusted face. And that's

43:02

how she reacted. She looked at me

43:04

as if she smelled a bloody fart.

43:06

She looks at me and she goes,

43:08

I'd be more impressed if you transformed

43:10

it to a real man had a

43:12

conversation with me. Boom! And I've never

43:14

had that reaction before. Normally people say,

43:16

wow, you're amazing. So I said to

43:18

her, no thanks. And I left. Tell

43:20

between my legs, the boys all teased

43:22

me and I all teased me and

43:24

everything. But I was all teased me

43:26

and everything. But I was so drawn.

43:28

But I was so drawn. Her confidence.

43:30

Just, oh, there was something there. I

43:32

went back to the bar four times

43:34

in a row. She wasn't there, she

43:36

wasn't there, she wasn't there, then she

43:38

was there. And I walked up for

43:40

the second time and I said, hey,

43:42

listen, what if I transformed it to

43:44

a real man tonight and I took

43:46

you out for a coffee? And we

43:48

fell in love. You know, and that's

43:50

the story of how I met my

43:52

wife. Whereas the way I would normally

43:54

tell that story. It's just like her.

43:56

But all of a sudden there was

43:58

so much life, so much zest in

44:00

that story. I noticed you added so

44:02

much almost irrelevant detail. So you talked

44:04

about the bar having two floors and

44:06

stuff like visual. Okay, so I could

44:08

picture it in my mind. Why does

44:10

that make a visual? Well, it's, it's,

44:12

well, okay, so here's the thing. When

44:14

you think of the storytelling formula, if

44:16

you just give the who, what, where,

44:18

and when, that's the basics people need.

44:20

But what turns it from reporting to

44:22

reliving, because that's what you want to

44:24

get to, you want to get to

44:26

reliving a story, kinesthetic, and smell. So

44:28

I'm just describing those few things for

44:30

you, right? And it doesn't always have

44:32

to have all the ingredients, but you

44:34

want to add some of those ingredients.

44:36

So the visual, I described you, the

44:38

visual, the auditory, what I said. I

44:40

did my voice, I did her voice,

44:42

I gave you dialogue. So all of

44:45

a sudden you bring the story to

44:47

life. Now it goes from reporting to

44:49

reliving. So if I told that story,

44:51

and let's say that now the connection

44:53

ability, it's to do with improv as

44:55

well, is instead of just going out

44:57

and saying... Here's three ways

44:59

to shop authentically when you're trying to pick

45:01

up someone. Instead of doing that, I share

45:03

the story first. I get you to engage,

45:05

I build rapport, I build chemistry. Now you've

45:07

heard the story, now you have rapport with

45:10

me, you feel more relaxed, you feel more

45:12

creative, right? Then I link that story to...

45:14

So the very next time you walk into

45:16

a gala, if she does say no, she

45:18

may not be saying no to you, she

45:21

may just be saying no to your approach

45:23

to your approach. Here are the more powerful

45:25

way. to then go into the three tips.

45:27

Whereas I feel that because of the world

45:29

now with social media, we've just lost the

45:32

art form of storytelling. It's just give me

45:34

the three tips now. I've heard you talk

45:36

about these four elements to a great story,

45:38

which is the hook, the struggle, the breakthrough,

45:40

and the application, which is kind of what

45:43

you just displayed there. Well, the importance of

45:45

application, I think, is something that I really

45:47

focus on with my students. And by application

45:49

you mean the lesson or the big takeaway

45:51

from the story. Because sometimes people tell stories

45:53

and they go nowhere. Well, it's also what

45:56

you do. Okay. Because I can share a

45:58

story, but if I... One of our viewers

46:00

went viral, and I don't claim to be

46:02

an expert on social media, okay? So I

46:04

don't... I still don't understand how some of

46:07

these things work, even though we've been able

46:09

to grow all of our social channels quite

46:11

quickly. I don't understand how it's... To me,

46:13

I can't believe that work last time. Oh,

46:15

it doesn't work anymore. Ha! That's weird. So,

46:18

to me, it's... what people love, is when

46:20

people love is when you give them a

46:22

really simple, a really simple, pragmatic, pragmatic, pragmatic

46:24

take away that they can go and actually

46:26

do that they can go and actually do.

46:30

Go do it now. Whereas we don't

46:32

apply knowledge. We just keep consuming and

46:34

go through knowledge acquisition. There's a cycle

46:36

of doom that we go through. There's

46:38

this cycle of doom that we go

46:40

through. There's just this cycle of, I

46:43

mean, this is the cycle my students

46:45

go through. Oh, drop, promotion. Oh crap,

46:47

I need to work on my communication

46:49

skills. What's the first thing they do?

46:51

They go to Google. And then they

46:53

Google how to improve my interview my

46:56

communication skills. They get... Three million videos.

46:58

And they go, oh, this is too.

47:00

ChatGPT. I'll go to chatGPT now. How

47:02

to improve communication skills. And it gives

47:04

you these generic answers from blogs that

47:06

have no relevance to you. And then

47:09

after that, you feel so overwhelmed. You

47:11

do nothing with it. But it's just

47:13

this cycle we all fall victim to.

47:15

Over and over and over again, we

47:17

just keep consuming knowledge and nothing actually

47:19

changes, because we're not applying it. Pick

47:22

one and just try it. It's like

47:24

we're going through all these different things.

47:26

Right after this episode, go out and

47:28

just try tonality with your kids and

47:30

read them a children's book because those

47:32

books are naturally emotive. And if you

47:34

don't have kids, borrow a niece or

47:37

a nephew and just watch the impact

47:39

on the other human being as you

47:41

play with your instrument. Watch them smile,

47:43

watch them giggle, watch them react to

47:45

the way you play your instrument. Because

47:47

then it wakes you up to the

47:50

fact that you've got access to this.

47:52

and that I can change the way

47:54

someone feels. What power? Yet we don't

47:56

use it. I've just realized that there's

47:58

one more left. There is one more

48:00

left. Okay, I know what this was.

48:03

Yeah, of course. If you didn't, I'll

48:05

be quite deeply offended. Yeah, I'll get

48:07

you to eat this. And we'll play

48:09

with the last one. Okay. My name

48:11

is Maximus Decimus Aridius. Correct. Commander of

48:13

the armies of the North. General of

48:16

the Felix legions. Loel servant to the

48:18

true Emperor Emperor. Marcus Aurelius, father to

48:20

a murderer son, husband to a murdered

48:22

wife, and I will have my vengeance

48:24

in the life or the next. Perfect.

48:26

Now we're going to read it again,

48:29

except the final foundation here with the

48:31

voice is pause. Whatever emotion comes before

48:33

the pause, once you pause, it intensifies

48:35

that emotion. So if you've got the

48:37

feeling of anger and you pause, oh

48:39

that is a pause of anger. But

48:41

if all of a sudden I'm sad

48:44

and then I pause. You prolong the

48:46

sadness. It's a pause of sadness. And

48:48

think about how important the pause is

48:50

in music. And I love the world

48:52

of music. I love listening to orchestral

48:54

music. And when you think about it,

48:57

what happens right after a crescendo? It's

48:59

a pause. Silence. The most important note

49:01

that they play truing that piece. Yet

49:03

we barely use it. And what else

49:05

does the pause do? When you pause,

49:07

you give me time to process what

49:10

you're saying. Yet we are so afraid

49:12

of the pause. My name is Maximus.

49:14

Decimus. Decimus. Marilius, commander of the armies

49:16

of the North, general of the Felix

49:18

legions, loyal servant to the true Emperor,

49:20

Marcus Aurelius, father to the murdered son,

49:23

husband to a murdered wife. And I

49:25

will have my vengeance. In this life.

49:27

Beautiful. When you paused you gave me

49:29

time to process the weight of what

49:31

you're saying. The first time you read

49:33

it you rushed through. just like that

49:36

nervous employee in front of their leaders

49:38

who just rushed through it. You may

49:40

have just shared the most brilliant plan

49:42

for a marketing campaign, but because you

49:44

rushed through it, I didn't feel the

49:46

weight of how profound the strategy is.

49:48

Just something when you pause, you almost,

49:51

you tell the person, don't you act

49:53

almost inexplicably that they should really give

49:55

a fuck about the thing you just

49:57

said? Yeah, like it really mattered. It's

49:59

important. Yeah, because you're like giving it

50:01

space to breathe. And do you see

50:04

what all these foundations do? What do

50:06

they give you, ultimately, like what does

50:08

it ultimately lead to? Clarity. Do you

50:10

think there's a certain set of those

50:12

tools that when applied, or a certain

50:14

sort of style of speaking that makes

50:17

people dislike you? Is there a certain

50:19

one that just doesn't make them warm

50:21

to you? Is it the low pitches,

50:23

is it the far speaking? The sounds

50:25

that people don't like. For example, have

50:27

you ever called... I don't mean to

50:30

pick on real estate agents, but it

50:32

happens a lot to me in Australia.

50:34

When you call a real estate agent,

50:36

it's, hello, this is James from X,

50:38

Y, real estate. And when you hear

50:40

that sequence of melody, no worries, I'll

50:43

put you on to the next person.

50:45

And you get, you switch off. You

50:47

just get, oh, this person, just, I'm

50:49

not really connected to that person. And

50:51

all you have to do is, you

50:53

just tell them to switch the switch

50:55

the melody, the melody, and just don't

50:58

use that sing song song voice, and

51:00

just, vocal training, right? You've got a

51:02

sing-song voice, and if you keep following

51:04

the same rhythm, you have a sing-song

51:06

voice. So instead of doing that, just

51:08

go, hey, it's James. How can I

51:11

help, mate? You said the same thing.

51:13

You just switched up the melody. You

51:15

just switched up the melody. That sounds

51:17

a little more sincere. Because it was

51:19

a bit more varied. Exactly right. And

51:21

it's not what everybody uses the same

51:24

thing. There's a sound to it. and

51:26

it generally follows that. That's why newscasters,

51:28

there's a sound to it. Yeah. Last

51:30

night at 9 p.m. There's that, there's

51:32

a rhythm, and then they keep using

51:34

the same rhythm over and over and

51:37

over and over and over again. The

51:39

same melody sequence over and over and

51:41

over and over again. And am I

51:43

right in thinking if I wanted to

51:45

be really boring, I should just... kill

51:47

all variety. Kill all the foundations. Nothing.

51:49

Give me nothing. And it's what happens

51:52

when people, again, the people that I

51:54

serve, it's what happens is because they

51:56

go, I'll let my work speak for

51:58

itself. And I say, that's great. That

52:00

means you do great work, but why

52:02

not speak for your work too? Why

52:05

can't we do both? Why does that

52:07

have to be one or the other?

52:09

Yeah. It's a shame not to do

52:11

your work justice. You know, because you

52:13

can do it disserviceervous just by delivering

52:15

it without the foundations, as you've the

52:18

foundations, as you've said. And then other

52:20

people, as you said, they can have

52:22

the half the idea, but double the...

52:24

Double the showmanship. Yeah. And that happens

52:26

too. That happens too, right? So to

52:28

me, it's about helping those who... They've

52:31

got something amazing. You've got a story

52:33

you need to share. You've got an

52:35

idea you need to pitch. You've got

52:37

incredible technical skills that you've worked on

52:39

for the last 15 years. And you're

52:41

thinking, why am I still stuck in

52:44

this position? build the ability and grow

52:46

the ability to shine. How does one

52:48

increase their self-awareness as it relates to

52:50

their communication skills? Is there a practice

52:52

I can do to understand if I'm

52:54

good bad or ugly at this? If

52:56

you are problem unaware of communication and

52:59

right now you just go, oh, this

53:01

is something I need to work on,

53:03

then this is the three-step process you

53:05

have to commit to. And just by

53:07

doing this, it's going to dramatically change

53:09

the way you show up. I call

53:12

it record and review. And I learned

53:14

this as a magician. And it's so

53:16

practical when it comes to magic and

53:18

communication skills. First step, record a video

53:20

of yourself speaking for five minutes. A

53:22

full five minutes. And people always immediately

53:25

say, oh, what do I say though?

53:27

Google or chatGPT, great conversational starters. And

53:29

then use those for yourself. And just

53:31

talk, but it has to be impromptu

53:33

to. because I'm trying to tease out

53:35

core behaviors. I don't want you to

53:38

give me a pitch that you've delivered

53:40

20 times already. I want you to

53:42

just, in the moment speak, I'm trying

53:44

to tease out some non-functional behaviors. So

53:46

once you've recorded that video of yourself

53:48

for five minutes, leave it for a

53:51

day. video or just audio? Video. You

53:53

want video, you want to be standing

53:55

while you're doing this. Okay? Once you've

53:57

got that video recorded, leave it for

53:59

a day. Because when you watch it

54:01

straight away, I'm fat, I'm ugly, I

54:03

don't like myself, I hate the way

54:06

I sound, you leave it for a

54:08

day, you're thinner, you're better looking, you

54:10

love yourself more. Time and space, it's

54:12

amazing. So leave it for a day.

54:14

Then when you watch it back, you

54:16

review it in three different ways. Just

54:19

listen. Here you're doing an auditory review.

54:21

And just listen to your voice. And

54:23

now, because you've listened to this podcast,

54:25

you also have five vocal foundations you

54:27

can think about. So now, auditorially, think

54:29

about how's my rate of speech? How's

54:32

my volume? Oh, my default rate is

54:34

around a three. Oh, I speak really

54:36

sorry. And I stick to that. Oh,

54:38

my default volume. Oh, my goodness, it's

54:40

one. Oh wow, there's no tonality, there's

54:42

no emotion in my voice, there's no

54:45

pitch for right, oh I am not

54:47

pausing. You'll be able to take so

54:49

many notes and you'll be able to

54:51

hear things you've never been able to

54:53

hear before because most people avoid filming

54:55

themselves. Because I hate the way I

54:58

look and I hate the way I

55:00

sound. So to me, once you have

55:02

a page of notes and a whole

55:04

new level of awareness on your auditory

55:06

communication skills. So the next step is...

55:08

Now, you turn your phone back around,

55:10

you turn the sound and put it

55:13

on mute, you press play and you

55:15

just look at yourself. And then as

55:17

you're watching yourself, because most people don't

55:19

do this, unless they're creators, you don't

55:21

do this. That's why creators are such

55:23

great communicators, is because they're creators. You

55:26

don't do this. That's why creators are

55:28

such great communicators, is because they do

55:30

this. That's why creators are such great

55:32

communicators, is because they do this. That's

55:34

such great communicators, is because they're such

55:36

great communicators, is because, you don't, you

55:39

don't, you don't, you don't, you don't,

55:41

you don't, you don't, you don't, you

55:43

don't, you don't, you don't, you don't,

55:45

you don't, you don't, you don't, you

55:47

don't, you don't, you don't, you don't,

55:49

you don't, you don't, you don't, you

55:52

don't, you, you This is my big

55:54

tick. I keep touching my glass. I

55:56

can't help, but I need to work

55:58

on that. But you keep touching your

56:00

glasses, right? I keep touching my face,

56:02

I keep filling with things. You'll see

56:04

a whole bunch of non-functional behaviors that

56:07

you've never seen before. because you've avoided

56:09

it, and also because you have this

56:11

idea in your head that you're stuck.

56:13

You're not. It's just a series of

56:15

behaviors. And then afterwards, the final form

56:17

of review, don't listen to it, and

56:20

don't watch it. Get it transcribed. Because

56:22

now you'll see the way you communicate

56:24

from a different perspective. And you go,

56:26

oh my goodness, I ramble. I talked

56:28

about the same thing over, because you

56:30

see it from a different perspective. It's

56:33

easier to see it. And then you

56:35

see it, and I can see you

56:37

reacting, right? But that's what people do,

56:39

is they go, oh, not only do

56:41

I ramble, because when you get it

56:43

transcribed, leave in all of the nonwords

56:46

and the filler words. Nonwords being the

56:48

sounds we make to fill the silence,

56:50

filler words being the words we use

56:52

to fill the silence. And so, like,

56:54

do you know what I mean? This

56:56

transcription is immediately going to reveal to

56:59

reveal to you all of your auditory

57:01

clutter. The things that you say, again,

57:03

non-words and filler words, auditory clutter, that's

57:05

the, again, the answer, like, do you

57:07

know what I mean? Highlight it with

57:09

the red highlighter, because it might not

57:11

just be those. One of my big

57:14

ones was okay. I taught online during

57:16

COVID. As a result of that, because

57:18

I didn't get the in-person feedback from

57:20

my students, I would always say okay

57:22

at the end of my sentences. because

57:24

I wasn't getting any feedback so I

57:27

say that's the vocal foundations okay all

57:29

right now that's body like okay okay

57:31

okay and I didn't even notice I

57:33

was doing it but that process revealed

57:35

to me immediately oh wow I didn't

57:37

know that I was able to remove

57:40

that because it didn't serve why does

57:42

it matter to remove the clutter words

57:44

you know the like as um why

57:46

does it matter I'll give you an

57:48

example of it you know like um

57:50

if I was taking you through like

57:53

the like the core, you know, vocal

57:55

foundations, you know, like, it decreases the

57:57

clarity of the message. It's okay to

57:59

have some, be human, I get it.

58:01

It's not about none, but it's about...

58:03

having some and not have your speech

58:06

littered with it. Is it easy to

58:08

overcome that? Yeah, it is. Because to

58:10

get rid of that bad habit, you

58:12

just need to learn a new habit.

58:14

And the new habit is pause. So

58:16

the very moment you feel like saying,

58:18

um, we're not lagging, we're just pausing.

58:21

Right? You pause. And that's why, as

58:23

part of the vocal foundations, you have

58:25

to learn to be comfortable with... what

58:30

we're doing right now, just pausing. And

58:33

it's okay. So I've got my three

58:35

sheets of paper there. I've done the

58:37

auditory assessment, I've done the visual assessment,

58:39

I've looked at the transcript and I've

58:41

seen the words. And again, is it

58:44

repetitions from there and after? Just a

58:46

step before that. Okay. Because normally what

58:48

happens after you do that, and I

58:50

know, because my students have done it,

58:52

and then what happens is overwhelm. Because

58:54

they go, oh my goodness, there's like...

58:57

26 things I have to improve. Which

58:59

one do I pick? And then they'll

59:01

have to DM me on social media.

59:03

Which one do I pick then analysis

59:05

paralysis? And to me is, it doesn't

59:08

matter. Pick one. So what you do

59:10

is, you create yourself a little 12-week

59:12

plan. And you plan it one week

59:14

at a time. So first week? Rate

59:16

of speech. Great. So the whole week,

59:18

you just look at rate of speech.

59:21

Okay. At the end? What do you

59:23

do of that week? Record and review

59:25

again. Did it. No, guess what you're

59:27

doing next week? Radar speech. And it's

59:29

that commitment, and I love this Japanese

59:32

word, called Kaisen, relentless improvement, and you

59:34

all do this here, amazingly. That's what

59:36

you've got to commit to. And you

59:38

focus on radar speech until you see

59:40

change. And I used to do coaching,

59:42

I don't do it anymore, because I've

59:45

got two kids, and they're the most

59:47

important people to me right now. But

59:49

I used to coach CEOs, and they

59:51

would see my plan to help them

59:53

improve their communication skills, their communication skills,

59:56

and they get pissed off. I'm just

59:58

doing rate of speech. I'm like, yeah.

1:00:00

Because your default is so slow, you're

1:00:02

putting everyone to sleep. And if you

1:00:04

don't change it after week one or week

1:00:06

two, I'm still going to get you

1:00:08

to do the same thing. And just

1:00:11

by increasing rate of speech alone, they

1:00:13

became so much more dynamic. Took a

1:00:15

month. We all know people that overtalk.

1:00:17

And over explain. 100%? Like how does

1:00:19

one know if they're doing that and

1:00:21

how to change it? By being able to

1:00:23

record yourself while you're in

1:00:26

conversation with someone. And Zoom is

1:00:28

amazing now. record yourself. And the

1:00:30

beauty of recording yourself on something

1:00:32

like Zoom is all of a sudden now you

1:00:34

can watch yourself and you see the

1:00:36

other person too. Do you recommend someone

1:00:39

like me if we're trying to improve

1:00:41

the communication skills of everybody in the

1:00:43

company to record our meetings and to

1:00:46

send it after? 100% review it. And

1:00:48

you may not get reactions when people

1:00:50

say things because most people, the

1:00:52

only thing they'll give you feedback

1:00:54

on. with your community. This is the only

1:00:56

feedback anybody will ever give you on your

1:00:58

communication. I felt like you talked a

1:01:01

bit too fast. They'll never say anything else

1:01:03

because anything else is an attack on your personality.

1:01:05

Right, so people are very afraid to give you

1:01:07

feedback, right? Especially you being the big boss, no

1:01:09

one's going to give you feedback, right? So all

1:01:11

of a sudden now, or maybe they do. I

1:01:14

feel like your team do. What I'm trying to

1:01:16

get at is, all of a sudden now when you watch

1:01:18

yourself back on those back on those videos, you

1:01:20

now will see their facial reactions. People

1:01:22

are very honest with their body language.

1:01:25

You've had body language experts on here.

1:01:27

People might be able to lie with

1:01:29

what they say, but all of a sudden,

1:01:31

they tell the truth of their body

1:01:33

language. You will see people do the

1:01:36

silent yawn, right? You'll see people just

1:01:38

do the silent yawn, right? They just

1:01:40

do the silent yawn, right? They keep their

1:01:42

mouth closed, but they yawning. You will

1:01:44

see these things if you start to

1:01:46

reflect and review. When I used to

1:01:48

do my keynotes. I had a whole career as a

1:01:50

keynote speaker, so when I did that, I used to

1:01:53

duct tape two go-pros together, and I'll duct tape the

1:01:55

little red recording button so the audience doesn't know like

1:01:57

that. I'm recording myself, and I'm also recording the audience,

1:01:59

only for my... purpose right as I review

1:02:01

my speeches and I would watch back-to-back

1:02:03

the audience faces and my keynote and

1:02:06

I could you can see where you

1:02:08

lose people because at a conference their

1:02:10

faces light up with their phone you

1:02:12

can literally see when you're losing them

1:02:14

in the talk and when you watch

1:02:16

those back to back it is so

1:02:19

humbling because you go wow did I

1:02:21

go on for why I thought it

1:02:23

was a fun tangent it wasn't and

1:02:25

then I kept that tangent in for

1:02:27

bloody six months because I thought it

1:02:29

added so much value. It did not

1:02:31

add value. So the only way to

1:02:34

get that awareness is you have to

1:02:36

find opportunities where you can record yourself.

1:02:38

Do you mind if I pause this

1:02:40

conversation for a moment? I want to

1:02:42

talk about art. show sponsor today which

1:02:44

is Shopify. I've always believed that the

1:02:47

biggest cost in business isn't failure. It's

1:02:49

the time you waste trying to make

1:02:51

decisions. Time spent hesitating, overthinking, or waiting

1:02:53

for the right moment. When I started

1:02:55

my first company at 20 years old

1:02:57

I had no experience and no money.

1:03:00

What I did have was an idea

1:03:02

and the willingness to move fast and

1:03:04

that made all the difference. If you've

1:03:06

been thinking about starting your own business,

1:03:08

Shopify makes this entire process so much

1:03:10

easier. With thousands of customizable of skills,

1:03:13

you just need a willingness to start.

1:03:15

Shopify connects all your sales channels from

1:03:17

your website to social media and it

1:03:19

handles the back-end payments, shipping and taxes

1:03:21

too, so that you can stay focused

1:03:23

on moving forward and growing your business.

1:03:26

If you're ready to start, visit shopify.com/Bartlett

1:03:28

and sign up for a one pound

1:03:30

per month trial period. That shopify.com/Bartlett. And

1:03:33

when you went up on stage as a

1:03:35

keynote speaker, was there anything that you did

1:03:37

before you went on stage to make sure

1:03:39

that you performed optimally? Because you were speaking,

1:03:42

what, 80 times a year or something. Yeah,

1:03:44

yeah, yeah, it got pretty full on. Yes,

1:03:46

have a way to calm your mind, calm

1:03:49

your body and get really focused. And the

1:03:51

way I do it is, the first thing

1:03:53

I would do is whim-off, the guided bubble

1:03:55

breathing. your breath and then a deep breath

1:03:58

in, hold for 15 and then release. Three

1:04:00

cycles of that. Oh, Stephen, my mind is

1:04:02

relaxed, my body is relaxed. And then the

1:04:05

next thing I do is I just do

1:04:07

a little bit of brisk walking, do maybe

1:04:09

10, 20 push-ups. Why? Because I'm getting rid

1:04:11

of the adrenaline that's building up in my

1:04:14

body. Because if you don't get rid of

1:04:16

the adrenaline, you'll go on stage and you

1:04:18

start pacing the stage. And I'll start pacing

1:04:21

the adrenaline in me. Right. non-functional movement. Non-functional.

1:04:23

So get rid of the adrenaline. So a

1:04:25

little bit of brisk exercise gets rid of

1:04:27

that adrenaline that you don't need. So I

1:04:30

do those two things. And depending on how

1:04:32

nervous I am, I may have to do

1:04:34

a mindset shift. And the mindset shift is,

1:04:37

the only way you can become self-conscious and

1:04:39

nervous is if you're thinking about yourself. So

1:04:41

if you're not thinking about yourself, and you

1:04:43

have no cognitive capacity to think by self,

1:04:46

then how can you be nervous? So think

1:04:48

of the audience. Before coming to this, I

1:04:50

felt a bit nervous. I thought, you know

1:04:52

what, I'm just gonna think about Stephen, and

1:04:55

I'm gonna think about his audience. How can

1:04:57

I add the most value possible in this

1:04:59

podcast as we talk? And the moment I

1:05:02

thought about you and your audience, I don't

1:05:04

have any cognitive capacity left to think about

1:05:06

me. So when you kind of think about

1:05:08

this act of service, it shifts where you

1:05:11

are. You're not in your own body anymore.

1:05:13

You're not self-conscious. Your audience-conscious, your audience-conscious, helps.

1:05:15

And is there. And is there. Especially if

1:05:18

I've woken up early in the morning and

1:05:20

I'm like jumping on a zoom call with

1:05:22

some foreign time zone. Like feels like my

1:05:24

mouth isn't quite like there yet. And also

1:05:27

feels like my brain's not connected to my

1:05:29

mouth. So first thing is lip trules. Have

1:05:31

you ever done lip trules before? Okay, lip

1:05:34

trules are this. Perfect. And a lot of

1:05:36

people won't be able to do that. So

1:05:38

all you do is get your two index

1:05:40

fingers. Push your cheeks together. Push your cheeks.

1:05:43

Final Countdown, one of my favourites right now.

1:05:45

Do that for an entire song. So do

1:05:47

that for your favorite song. And once you've

1:05:50

done... that if you do that for two

1:05:52

to three minutes now all of a sudden

1:05:54

your articulators have woken up you've also woken

1:05:56

up your vocal chords and your lips now

1:05:59

being the main articulators we use to shape

1:06:01

the words that we say it's awake the

1:06:03

siren technique is another way great way to

1:06:06

wake up your voice and you've done the

1:06:08

vote the siren technique which is read low

1:06:10

and then go high read low and then

1:06:12

go high the other thing that I learnt

1:06:15

from studying your work is this idea of

1:06:17

the power sphere sphere when you're on stage

1:06:19

This power sphere, I've got to picture that.

1:06:22

I learned this from Mark Boden. Mark Boden

1:06:24

is an incredible body language expert and I

1:06:26

was lucky to do some coaching with him

1:06:28

when I lived in the US. And he

1:06:31

taught me this concept of the area between

1:06:33

your belly button and your eyes. And that's

1:06:35

the area between your belly button and your

1:06:38

eyes. And that's the power. And that's the

1:06:40

area between your belly button and your eyes.

1:06:42

And that's the power sphere. And that's the

1:06:44

area between your belly button and your eyes.

1:06:47

Yeah that and that's. They're doing all. They're

1:06:49

doing all. They're doing all. They're doing all.

1:06:51

They're doing all. OK, scared to take up

1:06:54

space. And again, I get a lot of

1:06:56

my female students ask me this question and

1:06:58

they say, oh, Vin, I feel like I

1:07:00

don't have enough presence. And I get the

1:07:03

feedback. I don't get executive presence. What is

1:07:05

this elusive thing called executive presence? It's simple.

1:07:07

It's two things. It's two things. It's two

1:07:10

things. It's two things. It's two things. It's

1:07:12

vocal presence, because you're using your hand gestures

1:07:14

within the power sphere. All of a sudden

1:07:16

you've got that you've. So you need to

1:07:19

get your elbows off your sides. 100% yeah,

1:07:21

yeah. Yeah, yeah. Again, I think of myself

1:07:23

as having this sphere around me, the way

1:07:26

that I remember Mark sharing this with me,

1:07:28

and not be afraid to go to the

1:07:30

edges of the sphere. Don't be afraid to

1:07:32

go to the edges of the sphere. Otherwise,

1:07:35

we tend to, a lot of people, T

1:07:37

wrecks it, right? The T wrecks it, right?

1:07:39

Don't T wrecks it, just have your arms

1:07:42

nice out and big. Don't be afraid to

1:07:44

take up the space, to take up the

1:07:46

space, and then there are foundational gestures, and

1:07:48

then there are foundational gestures you should, you

1:07:51

should, you should, you should, you should, you

1:07:53

should, you should, you should, you should, you

1:07:55

should, you should, you, you should, you should,

1:07:58

you, you should, you, you, you, you, you,

1:08:00

you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you,

1:08:02

you, you, you, you, you, The first one,

1:08:04

which you're doing already, this is Virginia Satiea,

1:08:07

came up with these and she was a

1:08:09

family therapist and she came up with the

1:08:11

foundation to hand gestures. This is placater. Try.

1:08:14

So you've got your hands, for people that

1:08:16

can't see, you've got your hands. Palm face

1:08:18

up, palm face up and out. Placator, beautiful

1:08:20

gesture to show that, hey, I have no

1:08:23

weapons, I have nothing to attack you with,

1:08:25

right? So this is Placator. So you're showing

1:08:27

your pumps. Wonderful way to greet people as

1:08:30

they come in. Hey, good, no. Instead of

1:08:32

surrendering, hey, great. Instead of surrendering, hey, great

1:08:34

to see you. Okay, beautiful. Great, however, it's

1:08:36

closely related to its cousin, I don't know,

1:08:39

right, I don't know, is this. So again,

1:08:41

it does lack authority. Yes, right, it feels

1:08:43

a bit we're doing it sitting down, but

1:08:46

this is level, right? There's a element of

1:08:48

control. Yeah, well, the hands faced, well, try

1:08:50

this, try this, give this a go, right?

1:08:52

I'm saying this a lot to my daughter

1:08:55

at the moment, she's very, one year old,

1:08:57

very sweet, very, one year old, very sweet,

1:08:59

very sweet, very naughty, so again, three, two,

1:09:01

two, two, two, two, Melody stopped doing that.

1:09:04

I didn't tell you what to really even

1:09:06

do. Did you notice how your voice changed?

1:09:08

Yeah. What face changed as well. And what

1:09:11

changed with your your body? What had changed

1:09:13

with your vocal quality? Sorry. It went, the

1:09:15

pitch went, okay, the pitch went, okay, the

1:09:17

pitch went, okay, the pitch went, okay, the

1:09:20

pitch went down, correct. And I didn't tell

1:09:22

you to do that. Yeah. Right. So all

1:09:24

of a sudden, because I was doing anger,

1:09:27

I was doing anger, but frustration. that a

1:09:29

monotone voice comes from a monotone body. So

1:09:31

you just moved your body from this to

1:09:33

this, and you created a different sound. Is

1:09:36

the voice is connected to the body, the

1:09:38

body's connected to the voice. And the biggest

1:09:40

mistake you see here within this realm here

1:09:43

is, you do, imagine you did a great

1:09:45

keynote, imagine I do this, right? Are there

1:09:47

any questions? Right. Versus, are there any questions?

1:09:49

Are there any questions? But Blamer. Have a

1:09:52

guess of what Blamer is. Pointing? Yes, correct.

1:09:54

This is Blamer. A very strong gesture. And

1:09:56

then a softer version of that is the

1:09:59

full finger point. You point it with all

1:10:01

your fingers. Politicians get taught this. They soften

1:10:03

it, soften it a bit. And then they

1:10:05

soften it with their full finger point. I

1:10:08

notice this on the podcast sometimes. I know

1:10:10

it's the people accidentally do it when they

1:10:12

do something. Oh. Because they'll say something like,

1:10:15

you know, you know, entrepreneurs, they can be,

1:10:17

they can be, they can be, they can

1:10:19

be, they can be quite. sad because they

1:10:21

don't have quite a balance. And as they're

1:10:24

saying it, they'll like accidentally point at me,

1:10:26

but it does make contextual sense. So they'll

1:10:28

go to your entrepreneurs, sometimes they don't have

1:10:31

work like that. And they're like, they don't

1:10:33

know they're doing it, but they're like subtly

1:10:35

gesturing in my direction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:10:37

Yeah. Yeah. I know what you mean. It's

1:10:40

like, yeah. Some people have, you put on

1:10:42

a bit of white. Oh. I didn't know

1:10:44

that. I didn't know that. I didn't know

1:10:47

that. I. I didn't know that. I didn't

1:10:49

know that. I. I. I didn't know. I.

1:10:51

I. I. I didn't know. I didn't know.

1:10:53

I didn't know. I. I didn't know. I

1:10:56

didn't know. I. I. I. I didn't know.

1:10:58

I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.

1:11:00

I. I. I. I. I. I Again, it's

1:11:03

just different ways to vary the way you

1:11:05

look visually. That's blamer, you've got a softer

1:11:07

version. And then you've also got this wonderful

1:11:09

one, they call the computer. And computer is

1:11:12

a wonderful, an extra thing you can do

1:11:14

when you're on a podcast. And someone's, you

1:11:16

experience or you hear heightened emotion. You can

1:11:19

also respond with your face, but you can

1:11:21

respond with your body too. You can kind

1:11:23

of go into computer. And computer is just

1:11:25

one arm under the other one at your

1:11:28

chin. You go ha. One I'm across and

1:11:30

one which I'm wondering... And then wondering... Some

1:11:32

people call this the think-apose, right? But you

1:11:35

can go on this, you go, huh, combine

1:11:37

with a head tilt, soften it, right? Straight

1:11:39

up is a little bit straight, and it's

1:11:41

softened, and you're, oh. Is that what head

1:11:44

tilt does, it softens? It softens, it softens,

1:11:46

it softens, does, it softens? It softens, it

1:11:48

softens, it softens, it softens, it softens? It's,

1:11:51

it softens, it softens, it softens, it softens,

1:11:53

it softens, it softens, it softens, it softens,

1:11:55

it softens, it softens, it softens, it softens,

1:11:57

it softens, it softens, it softens, it softens,

1:12:00

it softens, it softens, it softens, it softens,

1:12:02

softens, softens, softens, softens, it softens, it softens,

1:12:04

softens, when you sense heightened emotion. So if

1:12:07

they start to get a bit frustrated, you

1:12:09

can show them with your body too. A

1:12:11

beautiful pose. Then the final one is distractor,

1:12:13

which is a pattern break. It's an auditory

1:12:16

and visual pattern break. For example, if you're

1:12:18

on stage and you're talking and you've gone

1:12:20

on a tangent, I've done this, maybe you've

1:12:23

done it, and you realize the audience, they're

1:12:25

all on their phones. Instead of continuing, you

1:12:27

can execute, distractor, and do distractor to get

1:12:29

their attention back. Oh, I'm sorry. I've gone

1:12:32

down that tangent. Let me bring you back,

1:12:34

let me use a different analogy. So auditory,

1:12:36

and there's a clap involved visual in that,

1:12:39

showing bees. Imagine me showing bees as I

1:12:41

was doing that. So clap and showing bees.

1:12:43

There's an auditory and visual pattern break that

1:12:45

now allows me to get your attention back.

1:12:48

If you're doing this more than once in

1:12:50

a presentation, you need to work on your

1:12:52

rehearsal process. You need to work on you

1:12:55

delivering the presentation in a way that's more

1:12:57

coherent. I guess all of this stuff also

1:12:59

applies to when you're making video clips for

1:13:01

social media. So many of us are building

1:13:04

personal media. Because you come to life. I'm

1:13:06

coming to life visually. What we're seeing here

1:13:08

is I'm coming to life vocally and visually.

1:13:10

Here's where people get stuck again. They go,

1:13:13

but that's not me. Yeah. Do you think,

1:13:15

right now I'm watching these games and I'm

1:13:17

loving it, it's just, I'm so addicted to

1:13:20

it, Jimmy's doing great. And do you think

1:13:22

Jimmy talks like that? Is everyday life? Do

1:13:24

you think he goes home and he says

1:13:26

to his partner, and next, we're going to

1:13:29

go to dinner? And for dinner, you're going

1:13:31

to have three choices. He doesn't talk like

1:13:33

that. But he understands that in that context,

1:13:36

for that medium, the message I'm trying to

1:13:38

communicate, I have to play my instrument differently

1:13:40

to achieve the outcome that I desire. And

1:13:42

you're going to have to do the same

1:13:45

thing in your life. Whereas people are addicted

1:13:47

to this idea of there's only one me.

1:13:49

Do you know what's interesting? I think there'll

1:13:52

be a certain cohort of people listening. I

1:13:54

think there'll be a certain cohort of people

1:13:56

listening. I know. It's so much, it sounds

1:13:58

so exhausting, Vin and I just, I just

1:14:01

can't be, I can't be bothered, Vin, I

1:14:03

can't, you must have heard this before. I've

1:14:05

heard it before. And I share with them

1:14:08

that the idea of influence, you've got to

1:14:10

understand, that takes work. It's like saying I

1:14:12

want to become the best basketball in the

1:14:14

world, but that's too much work. So it's

1:14:17

a deal, if you want this. If you

1:14:19

want this. Then this is how you get

1:14:21

it. This is how you get it. The

1:14:24

world has really changed, especially in the last

1:14:26

couple of years post-pandemic, and much of our

1:14:28

communication now takes place on video calls, Zoom,

1:14:30

Google Hangouts, this kind of thing. How do

1:14:33

the rules that you've said, and you've talked

1:14:35

about today, apply or not apply, and you're

1:14:37

not a creator? What happens? The moment it's

1:14:40

unnatural, what happens to you? Because it's weird

1:14:42

sitting in front of a webcam. What happens

1:14:44

to you, do you think? You lose yourself

1:14:46

a little bit. Yes. Everything drops. All of

1:14:49

your vocal foundations disappear. So what do I

1:14:51

need to be thinking about? To be thinking

1:14:53

about, to be thinking about, to be thinking

1:14:56

about, to be effective. I want to be

1:14:58

the most effective person on my Zoom calls.

1:15:00

Because I need to be thinking about to

1:15:02

be effective, to be effective, and I think.

1:15:05

I often move the meeting to in person.

1:15:07

And then sometimes it's not always convenient, right?

1:15:09

It's never convenient, because you've got to drive

1:15:12

somewhere and fly somewhere. So I'd rather be

1:15:14

effective on Zoom. Nothing will replace this. It's

1:15:16

why I flew here from Australia. It's nothing

1:15:18

will replace this. If we did this virtually,

1:15:21

it's not the same. But when you have

1:15:23

to do it virtually, you have to give

1:15:25

more of yourself. If you want them to

1:15:28

feel valued, you have to adopt a mindset

1:15:30

of generosity, which is money. Right, easiest form

1:15:32

of generosity to grasp. And then you think

1:15:34

about it for a bit more. You go,

1:15:37

oh, it's time. Oh, okay, cool. And then

1:15:39

you think about it for more. Often people

1:15:41

don't think about the third form of generosity,

1:15:44

which is energy. That's what the third form

1:15:46

is. Because right now with you, I'm being

1:15:48

generous with my energy. I'm choosing to do

1:15:50

this, Stephen. I'm not just, I'm choosing to

1:15:53

do it, because I want to connect with

1:15:55

you. There's a part of, again, there's a

1:15:57

part of my brain that's like, oh man,

1:16:00

you jet lagged. tired, just back off a

1:16:02

little bit, and who cares all good? Whereas

1:16:04

I'm now being generous with it. And online

1:16:06

you have to be so conscious of that.

1:16:09

You have to be so much more generous

1:16:11

with your energy. Because naturally when you're sitting

1:16:13

in front of a camera, you feel weird,

1:16:16

and then all of a sudden, it's like

1:16:18

my wife. When she watches me run my

1:16:20

classes, she goes, I can't be in the

1:16:22

same room, because I feel like you're being

1:16:25

too much. And I am. I bring a

1:16:27

much bigger version of myself to that class.

1:16:29

I'm bringing a much bigger version than this.

1:16:32

And then my poor wife sitting there, she

1:16:34

goes, oh, is over doing it, is over

1:16:36

doing it. But to every single student on

1:16:38

that class with me virtually, oh, Vin, this

1:16:41

is so engaging. It's so beautiful to see

1:16:43

how much zest you have for what you

1:16:45

do. And afterwards, I'm exhausted. But it's a

1:16:48

choice I'm willing to make to be masterful

1:16:50

with what I do in that moment. Now

1:16:52

make sure your camera placement is well placed.

1:16:54

A lot of people when they appear on

1:16:57

Zoom, all you see is their head. Now

1:16:59

that makes you less visually dynamic. Whereas this

1:17:01

is why you need the external mic, push

1:17:03

the laptop back, external camera, wider lens, let

1:17:06

them see your whole torso. Yeah, I love

1:17:08

this. This is so important and I learned

1:17:10

this from Vanessa Van Edwards where you brought

1:17:13

her on. Oh yeah. Such a powerful, such

1:17:15

a powerful concept where it's the idea of

1:17:17

proxemics, where there's the study of distances. Most

1:17:19

people when they appear on Zoom, they appear

1:17:22

in the intimate space. And the intimate space

1:17:24

is when your head is right next to

1:17:26

your partner at night where you're doing pillow

1:17:29

talk. And that's how you appear on Zoom.

1:17:31

And when you appear that close, you feel

1:17:33

self-conscious, everybody else goes, oh, that's a bit.

1:17:35

So if you all of a sudden now

1:17:38

learn to appear in the personal and social

1:17:40

space, which means they can see your full

1:17:42

torso, that people feel more comfortable, but now

1:17:45

you also have access to your hand gestures.

1:17:47

Light yourself well. Okay. And something very simple.

1:17:49

If you're doing Zoom meetings all the time

1:17:51

and it's critical for you in your work,

1:17:54

then learn three-point lighting. Right? Three-point lighting. You've

1:17:56

got that going on right here. Right? And

1:17:58

if you don't know what it is, if

1:18:01

you just searched it, you'd find it. Which

1:18:03

is essentially... Three point lighting. You've got a

1:18:05

key light, you've got a fuel light, and

1:18:07

you've got a hair light behind you, right?

1:18:10

Okay, so there's a light behind you. Yes.

1:18:12

There's one on the side here. Yes. And

1:18:14

there's one on the side here. Yes. And

1:18:17

there's one on the side here. Yes. And

1:18:19

there's one on the front in the front,

1:18:21

is that what you mean? Is that what

1:18:23

you mean? Is that what? Is that what?

1:18:26

Is that what? Is that what? What? Is

1:18:28

that what? Is that what? Is that what?

1:18:30

What? What? Is that what? What? What? What?

1:18:33

What? What? What? Is that what? What? What?

1:18:35

What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What?

1:18:37

What? What? What? What? What? What? What. Is

1:18:39

that what? What. Is that what? What? Interesting.

1:18:42

I'm just clearer, I'm crisper. Right. And this

1:18:44

is, again, if you want to take it

1:18:46

to the next level. I want to take

1:18:49

it to the next level. All right, then

1:18:51

great. Then get a better quality camera too.

1:18:53

Don't rely on the laptop camera. Okay. A

1:18:55

lot of people do this, who are creators.

1:18:58

You just get a nicer webcam. Minimum 1080.

1:19:00

So you look sharper, you look clearer, and

1:19:02

you're well lit. Okay. Now you look better.

1:19:05

Done. Perfect. Get an an external mic. Because

1:19:07

if you spend all of your time working

1:19:09

on all of these wonderful vocal foundations and

1:19:11

you've got a shitty microphone and then you

1:19:14

talk, you've lost there again. And get fucking

1:19:16

good wife while you're around. Yes, please. Oh

1:19:18

Australia needs to listen to this as well.

1:19:21

Fiber optic. Yeah, 100% and then all of

1:19:23

a sudden now, so your visual looks good,

1:19:25

auditory is looked after. And don't be afraid

1:19:27

to bring a bigger version of yourself. So

1:19:30

much of this is about identity, isn't it?

1:19:32

It is. We're like, so many of us,

1:19:34

including me, we're trapped in our identity. Like

1:19:37

who we think we are, do you know

1:19:39

what? One of the really remarkable things always

1:19:41

reminds me how like BS, our communication style

1:19:43

and our identity by way of this is,

1:19:46

is just different accents. Yes. The fact that

1:19:48

someone can live in an area and they

1:19:50

can live in another area and they sound

1:19:53

completely different, like they're from New York or

1:19:55

something, and it just goes to show that

1:19:57

we're just like, like, like, like, like... It's

1:19:59

so contagious and easy to blend in with

1:20:02

one's environment. I remember experiencing a negative experience

1:20:04

with accent when I started to improve my

1:20:06

articulation. And I wanted to improve my pronunciation.

1:20:09

Everybody around me was saying, you're trying to

1:20:11

be British. Oh, really? You're trying so hard

1:20:13

to be British. How fact. No, no, I'm

1:20:15

just trying to improve my articulation. All right?

1:20:18

I used to slow my articulation. I used

1:20:20

to slow my words all the time. Being

1:20:22

an Ozzy, we used so much slang. Yeah,

1:20:25

I was going up. I didn't want to

1:20:27

do it. All right? Whereas I didn't pronounce

1:20:29

my T's. And then when I did pronounce

1:20:31

my T's, instead of saying three, I would

1:20:34

say free. Can I have free of those?

1:20:36

And that's how I used to talk. And

1:20:38

I didn't realize by talking about that, people

1:20:41

were making judgments about my intelligence. And I

1:20:43

was like, what? I didn't even know this.

1:20:45

I didn't even know that this was happening.

1:20:47

And all I was doing. And again, people

1:20:50

tried to keep me the same because of

1:20:52

identity. That's not how you should sound sound,

1:20:54

Vin'. Why are you trying to be this

1:20:57

British, Australian? And I just said to them

1:20:59

because when I speak like that, it creates

1:21:01

the wrong perception of people's minds and then

1:21:03

they now look down on me as a

1:21:06

result of that. There are some accents that

1:21:08

experience more discrimination than other, other accents. They

1:21:10

did a study in 2006, it was a

1:21:12

survey of the Charter Institute of... personal and

1:21:15

development found that 76% of employers admitted to

1:21:17

discriminating against candidates based solely on their accent.

1:21:19

We judge a book by its cover, don't

1:21:22

we? We have that. I have a thought

1:21:24

though. My thought is, and this is what

1:21:26

I believe, is that I don't believe accents

1:21:28

are a problem. I believe articulation and pronunciation

1:21:31

are. Why do you think people think people

1:21:33

from... The UK are smart. There's this perception

1:21:35

of it. Don't you get that where you're

1:21:38

sophisticated? James Bond. It's because you articulate extremely

1:21:40

well. Especially the ones that make... to the

1:21:42

movies. The ones we see, it's because of

1:21:44

that, and you can have that level of

1:21:47

sophistication and intelligence, and you can radiate that

1:21:49

intelligence with any accent. I have students from

1:21:51

India, who the moment they improve their articulation,

1:21:54

it's beautiful. There's nothing wrong with your accent.

1:21:56

For the longest time, they said, my accent

1:21:58

is a problem. I said, no, no, no.

1:22:00

It's not a problem. The problem is, and

1:22:03

here, here, where we go deep. Your whole

1:22:05

life, you've learned the mouth movements to speak

1:22:07

the Indian language. Then when you go speak

1:22:10

the English language, you're now using Indian mouth

1:22:12

movements to speak the English language, which are

1:22:14

the wrong set of mouth movements to speak

1:22:16

this particular language, but no one teaches us

1:22:19

this. And I used the Vietnamese mouth movements

1:22:21

to speak the English language, therefore accent and

1:22:23

lack of clarity. So what did I have

1:22:26

to do? Learn the set of English mouth

1:22:28

movements. Completely changed me. And how did you

1:22:30

do that? A speech pathologist? Oh, really? Yeah,

1:22:32

I had to go see a speech pathologist,

1:22:35

yeah. I struggled with this, Stephen, my whole

1:22:37

life. That's why when people look at me

1:22:39

now, very easy to assume, oh, is born

1:22:42

with the gift of the Gab, and the

1:22:44

reality I was born quite gabbless. Yeah. And

1:22:46

I share that, because it is a skill

1:22:48

that anybody can learn. When you said to

1:22:51

me, you can't do this, you can't do

1:22:53

that. To me, I hear, oh, I speak

1:22:55

with my hands with my hands in my

1:22:58

hands in my hands in my hands in

1:23:00

my hands in my pockets, and I'm stuck

1:23:02

with my hands in my pockets, and I'm

1:23:04

stuck that way, in my hands in my

1:23:07

hands in my hands in my pockets, in

1:23:09

my pockets, and I'm stuck that way, and

1:23:11

I'm stuck that way, in my hands in

1:23:14

my hands in my hands in my hands

1:23:16

in my pockets, and I'm stuck that way,

1:23:18

and I'm stuck that way, in my hands

1:23:20

in my hands in Yeah,

1:23:23

I mean when you told me that

1:23:26

your English was your third language, I

1:23:28

couldn't believe that. Yeah, because there's no

1:23:30

remnants. There's usually a remnants of the

1:23:32

language you spoke before. There's like no

1:23:35

evidence of it. Because this has become

1:23:37

the primary language that I speak the

1:23:39

majority of the time now. But even

1:23:41

so, my mother, she spoke Nigerian, so

1:23:44

she spoke Nigerian. For her childhood moved

1:23:46

to the UK when she was, I

1:23:48

think late... years. So maybe early 20s,

1:23:50

but there's always been the remnants of

1:23:52

Nigerian and she's almost almost now so

1:23:55

that's 40 years is that just because

1:23:57

she hasn't tried to well I think

1:23:59

it's linked to identity right I don't

1:24:01

want to lose that okay I don't

1:24:04

want to lose that connection I want

1:24:06

to lose that sound it's why again

1:24:08

most people don't change the way they

1:24:10

sound throughout the entire course of their

1:24:13

life I'm not saying she should because

1:24:15

there is something about your origin that

1:24:17

gives you a little bit more that's something

1:24:19

a little bit more interesting but when

1:24:21

I look at some of the research

1:24:23

it shows that in terms of employment

1:24:26

employment opportunities employment opportunities I would love

1:24:28

that The people who are speaking

1:24:30

with accents have incredible articulation

1:24:32

and pronunciation. As opposed to them

1:24:34

speaking with poor articulation and pronunciation.

1:24:37

There's a big difference. Research

1:24:39

indicates that individuals who use

1:24:42

non-standard speech patterns such as

1:24:44

African-American vernacular, English, often face

1:24:46

negative perceptions regarding their intelligence,

1:24:49

competence, they have worse housing

1:24:51

opportunities, and they have worse legal outcomes.

1:24:53

It's a profound. Adverse reaction just from

1:24:55

how you speak. It's a real, it's a

1:24:57

real unfairness, like an injustice, isn't

1:25:00

it? It is. It is. It's like

1:25:02

when I was... And it's one of

1:25:04

those things where this is... It's

1:25:06

super weird. I remember when I

1:25:08

was becoming a professional speaker, some

1:25:10

of my peers, who were also Asian,

1:25:13

I remember them saying to me, they

1:25:15

said, hey, it's gonna be really hard

1:25:17

man, right? Because that's for the

1:25:19

Caucasian man with white hair. The

1:25:21

game you're about to play. And at

1:25:24

the time I had blonde hair. Right,

1:25:26

as an Asian guy. And they're like,

1:25:28

you know, there's this thing called

1:25:30

a bamboo ceiling, Vin. And I

1:25:32

was like, what the hell is

1:25:34

a bamboo ceiling? I've never heard

1:25:36

of this before. And it goes,

1:25:38

oh, it's a ceiling specifically for

1:25:40

Asians. Because it's a bamboo ceiling,

1:25:43

specifically for Asians. Because it's a

1:25:45

bamboo ceiling, because it's a bamboo

1:25:47

ceiling, for Asians. Because it's

1:25:49

a bamboo ceiling for Asians. Because

1:25:51

it's a ceiling for Asians. I

1:25:53

didn't. And I remember this quote

1:25:55

from Steve Martin that truly inspired

1:25:57

me, where it's, be so good they can't ignore you.

1:26:00

And then there was a chapter while I

1:26:03

was here, I said, you know what? Fuck

1:26:05

it. There is no bamboo ceiling for me.

1:26:07

All right? I refuse to acknowledge that there

1:26:09

is this damn thing. I'm just going to

1:26:11

get so good at my damn craft. I'm

1:26:13

going to get so good at being on

1:26:16

stage. I'm going to ductape bloody go-pros together

1:26:18

and learn this game minute by minute. And

1:26:20

I was able to soar in my career

1:26:22

to a place where I never could go.

1:26:24

And I had those limitations placed on me

1:26:27

all my life. all these different labels placed

1:26:29

on me all my life, Stephen. And when

1:26:31

I choose to believe in them, they had

1:26:33

so much power over me. And when I

1:26:35

chose not to at times, some of them

1:26:37

weren't even real. And I was creating myself

1:26:40

by speaking about them all the time. And

1:26:42

I couldn't believe where I was able to

1:26:44

go with my speaking career. The stages I

1:26:46

was able to get on, these companies I

1:26:48

was able to work. I said, is this,

1:26:51

is this even real? Do they know I'm

1:26:53

from the northern suburbs of South Australia Adelaide?

1:26:55

That's wild that you went from not speaking

1:26:57

the language to being paid millions. To speak

1:26:59

to speak the language. And to teach other

1:27:01

people how to speak it. Yeah, my best

1:27:04

friend says that all the time. He goes,

1:27:06

it's the most hilarious thing in the world.

1:27:08

And I hope that becomes a point of

1:27:10

inspiration, that it doesn't matter if English is

1:27:12

your only language, second, fourth, or fifth. These

1:27:15

are just a series of behaviors that anybody

1:27:17

can learn. And if this is what you

1:27:19

want. Actually it's even more extreme, because... You

1:27:21

were bullied for not being able to speak

1:27:23

the language, so much so that you had

1:27:25

to move to five different schools. And now,

1:27:28

you earn millions from speaking the language and

1:27:30

teaching others how to speak it. Probably some

1:27:32

of the same people that would have bullied

1:27:34

you. I actually heard some of them reach

1:27:36

out, which was crazy. We were searching arc.

1:27:39

Yeah, well, there was a bully that stole

1:27:41

a bike from me. broke my heart. My

1:27:43

mom and dad worked for months about to

1:27:45

buy me that bike. It was $280 Australian

1:27:47

dollars, which was huge during the 90s. It

1:27:49

was an incredible BMX bike with stunt pakes

1:27:52

and everything. and a bully found out where

1:27:54

I lived and stole it and reached out

1:27:56

25 years later to apologize. She'd asked him

1:27:58

for that fucking too. That's why I thought

1:28:00

he was going to give me that fucking

1:28:03

bike back but he didn't. And it was

1:28:05

crazy was it was so beautiful because because

1:28:07

of the good vibes I've been able to

1:28:09

put out. He saw who I had become

1:28:11

and I thought it was so man of

1:28:13

him. I respected him so much for that.

1:28:16

And I think a part of me needed

1:28:18

it too. because there's been pain in my

1:28:20

heart that I haven't been able to resolve.

1:28:22

And you've just resolved, you've just resolved some

1:28:24

of that for me when you apologize and

1:28:27

said sorry. Because my mom, like again, it

1:28:29

was just so meaningful to me, that bike.

1:28:31

And again, I was so happy, I was

1:28:33

so blown away that he apologized. It was

1:28:35

really beautiful. When dealing with people like police,

1:28:37

workplace police, people that are insulting you or

1:28:40

are patronizing you, what is the best technique

1:28:42

conversation conversation? to disarm them or to, you

1:28:44

know, to stop them from doing it or

1:28:46

to come out on top per se, whatever

1:28:48

that might mean. The simplest version of that

1:28:51

for me is to use improvisation, yes and.

1:28:53

And instead of disagreeing with you, I will

1:28:55

humorously agree with you. And again, I'm not

1:28:57

sure this is the best thing in the

1:28:59

world people should do, but I diffuse this

1:29:01

very simply because I've had it happen to

1:29:04

me all my life. Yeah, I'm a bit

1:29:06

comosy at times, I know that. And they

1:29:08

don't know where to go with that after

1:29:10

that. Oh yeah, and you're stupid, you get,

1:29:12

you know what, I've done so many stupid

1:29:15

things in my time as an entrepreneur, if

1:29:17

you've seen some of it, oh I hope

1:29:19

you haven't seen all of it. What's the

1:29:21

yes and technique? The yes and is just

1:29:23

when you acknowledge what they're saying and you're

1:29:25

just building on top of it, right? It's

1:29:28

like yes and you're right and you're right,

1:29:30

you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right,

1:29:32

you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right,

1:29:34

you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right,

1:29:36

you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right,

1:29:39

you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right,

1:29:41

you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right,

1:29:43

you're right, you're right Again, and you have

1:29:45

to be okay with that because we're all

1:29:47

flawed. human beings. Aren't you letting them win

1:29:49

there in that situation? It depends on how

1:29:52

you define win. To me, I'm just not

1:29:54

going to be hooked into this. Whereas before,

1:29:56

I would defend myself. I'm like, oh, what

1:29:58

have I done that made you think that?

1:30:00

But I'm not interested. If you're not in

1:30:03

the, I love this quote from Renee Brown,

1:30:05

where she says, it's I think from Theodore

1:30:07

Roosevelt, if you're not in the arena with

1:30:09

me, I'm not in the arena with me,

1:30:11

I'm not really that interested in your arena

1:30:13

with me. 100 pictures a year, they come

1:30:16

into the den, five of us dragons here,

1:30:18

we're interrogating them, we're asking them difficult questions.

1:30:20

Based on what you know about communication, how

1:30:22

should they handle our critiques and our challenges?

1:30:24

Is it the yes and thing? Because what's

1:30:26

the opposite of yes and is yes but,

1:30:29

right? And the classic scenario is if you

1:30:31

said something to them as simple as, and

1:30:33

I remember sharing this with one of my

1:30:35

clients where I saw in their calls, when

1:30:37

people were arguing with them about their prices,

1:30:40

they would say, yes, but the reason we're

1:30:42

more expensive is because we spend a lot

1:30:44

more on R&D and we update our software

1:30:46

all the time. So all of a sudden

1:30:48

when you say, yes, but you're taking your

1:30:50

conversation. to a negative direction. But means, whatever

1:30:53

you say, I'm going to negate that and

1:30:55

I'm going to give you my version of

1:30:57

reality. Whereas when you say yes and, the

1:30:59

same thing, you could critique them and say,

1:31:01

oh, I think your services are too expensive.

1:31:04

Yes, and Stephen, the reason for that is

1:31:06

because we invest heavily in research and development.

1:31:08

So all of a sudden when you say

1:31:10

yes and, you're taking it in a positive

1:31:12

direction. You say yes, but you're taking it

1:31:14

in a negative direction. One, we're going to

1:31:17

build upon. and I'm just gonna share and

1:31:19

force my version of my reality. So it's

1:31:21

a simple technique in the world of. It's

1:31:23

so effective though. I see it in the

1:31:25

dead all the time. I see when my

1:31:28

fellow dragons will be like interrogating someone and

1:31:30

I'm watching and I watch some of them.

1:31:32

They go, yeah, but, but, but. And they

1:31:34

just get the person's back up. Like they

1:31:36

just, it's like, it becomes this real antagonistic

1:31:38

exchange and it reminds me of telly. Sherrod

1:31:41

who's a neuroscientist that was on my podcast

1:31:43

who told me they did studies where they

1:31:45

put two people in these like brain scanners

1:31:47

and they got them to agree and agree

1:31:49

and scan their brains and when they agreed

1:31:52

their brains were illuminated then in the next

1:31:54

round they got them to disagree at a

1:31:56

certain moment and when they disagreed with each

1:31:58

other in these brain scanners their brains basically

1:32:00

shut down because they've gone into... it's once

1:32:02

like you could... when I say shut down

1:32:05

it's like the lights went out... and so

1:32:07

she taught me this law that I wrote

1:32:09

about which is called... never disagree. When you

1:32:11

say that people go never disagree. Doesn't make

1:32:13

sense. Doesn't make sense. That's what yes and

1:32:16

is so good for. Even if you say

1:32:18

something negative, it's all right. Even you say

1:32:20

that your content sucks. Yes and I know

1:32:22