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Come to you to succumb

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to the darkness to succumb

1:11

to the darkness. As fast. comes

1:14

a masterpiece of horror Eggers

1:16

comes a masterpiece of horror. He is

1:18

coming. This

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creature is a

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powerful than evil.

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death itself! a force

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more powerful than Hello,

1:35

everyone. I'm Tony Black. And I'm

1:37

Carl Sweeney. and welcome to

1:40

the Discourse Plus. I

1:55

let that S go long time there, didn't

1:57

I? didn't I? I just I'd just edge it

1:59

out, like... like the end end

2:01

of a fart. Let's talk

2:04

about this film's talk about this

2:06

film, Sound of Freedom, because give

2:08

us a us a bit of pracy

2:10

of all of all this, because

2:12

this has been in the news

2:14

in the news as a possibly a a

2:16

relatively conservative antidote

2:19

to some of what of what people

2:21

might call the liberal media

2:24

in terms of cinema. What's going on with

2:26

this film? going on with start? film?

2:28

Sound of freedom. So we should we

2:30

that say of us have seen it

2:32

because it because release. And I can't

2:34

find any evidence that it has a

2:36

UK release date coming up or

2:38

anything. a UK But it's up or it's been

2:40

very successful in the been It's just,

2:43

I think, passed in million It's the I

2:45

office. $100 million the US weekend

2:47

was bigger than was bigger

2:49

than second weekend, second weekend,

2:51

of kind out and done well and then

2:53

stuck around the charts really well. well.

2:55

But there are some fascinating dimensions to

2:57

that. to that. It seems like I'll come to

2:59

what the film is in a is

3:01

but. a sec, but it seems like partly

3:04

there's a a thing thing going

3:06

on with the ticket sales sales

3:08

because the film's distributor, Angel Studios, set

3:10

up a up a forward scheme. scheme

3:12

whereby a message message apparently

3:14

comes up at the end of the

3:16

film film a link on the on the studio's

3:18

website which urges viewers to buy an extra

3:20

ticket. ticket for someone who

3:22

would not otherwise be able to

3:24

see the film. see the film. And apparently on the

3:27

release day... around 20% of ticket of ticket

3:29

sales were from these extra

3:31

tickets. think this has And I think this is a on

3:33

for a lot of the tickets are being bought in

3:35

this way. it seems like a lot of seems

3:37

like a lot of the tickets for

3:39

sold for the film are not

3:41

actually being used. lots of social lots of

3:43

social media activity alleging that busy screenings

3:46

or screenings that appear to be

3:48

busy on the for the the cinemas. in

3:50

reality are reality and not being attended

3:52

by very many people at all, sometimes. all sometimes.

3:54

Yeah, an know, an almost full cinema is,

3:57

at least least to some of to

3:59

some of these tiktoks. some things and tweets

4:01

that are going around. know, an

4:03

almost full cinema in theory is in

4:05

reality, attended by almost nobody. Right.

4:07

So what's going on there is one

4:09

question. And I mean, is there

4:11

anything wrong with the idea of a

4:13

pay it forward scheme misleading ticket

4:15

sales? I suppose you could say the

4:17

cinema probably would prefer an actual

4:19

person to be there because an actual

4:22

person will buy popcorn and buy

4:24

a drink and all that. Yeah. But

4:26

I suppose they would rather sell

4:28

a ticket than not sell a ticket

4:30

at all. So anyway, that's one

4:32

aspect of this. Why is this film

4:34

controversial? So the film is about

4:36

child trafficking. That's one thing because experts

4:38

have criticized the way it handles

4:40

that premise. So it's about a former

4:42

homeland security agent played by Jim

4:44

Caviesal, who he goes on this mission

4:47

to rescue children from a Colombian

4:49

trafficking ring. The criticism is that it

4:51

offers a false perception of what

4:53

child trafficking what child trafficking is and

4:55

how it occurs. So again, we

4:57

haven't seen it. Apparently it starts with

4:59

a montage that shows children being

5:01

snatched off the streets by strangers. In

5:03

reality, the most, you know, most

5:05

victims of child trafficking know the person

5:07

who is trafficking them. And also

5:10

apparently the film is a lot about

5:12

very young children, but in reality,

5:14

most children who are trafficked are adolescents

5:16

or teenagers. So that's

5:18

one aspect of it. It's an

5:20

argument that it's an anti -trafficking movie, which

5:24

is kind of, you know,

5:26

people might take as an expose

5:28

about this problem. But actually,

5:30

it's given you a sensationalist view

5:32

about it. Now that's probably

5:34

one of the least troubling film

5:36

things about it because so

5:38

the film's lead actor, Jim Caviesal,

5:40

he appears to be a

5:42

QAnon believer. So QAnon being the

5:44

conspiracy theory, which alleges that

5:46

there's this kind of cabal of

5:48

celebrities and financiers and Democrats

5:50

who are controlling the world whilst

5:52

being engaged in a mass

5:54

pedophilia ring. But

6:00

what gets me when you something like that

6:02

what gets me is why do

6:04

people think think that anyone in this world

6:06

this world enough to pull that off pull

6:08

that off? Like, this is I get with conspiracy

6:10

theories Well, I don't believe them.

6:12

I love them But I don't believe

6:14

them because nobody is that competent

6:17

to pull off something that complicated off something

6:19

that you know what I mean? Do

6:21

just think how do you not see

6:23

that do you not see people everyone's, people are crap, like,

6:25

keeping why would you Like, why do think people

6:27

could do that? Anyway, sorry. Keep going. It's popular amongst amongst

6:30

of this conspiracy theory, apparently. theory,

6:32

you know, you know, because... The idea

6:34

idea that a a shadowy ring of

6:36

elites are are sexually abusing young

6:38

children kind of of even though though Q-in-on,

6:41

and this Q-in-on theory Cuenon theory isn't referred

6:43

to in the film. There's kind of

6:45

an affinity there with what the film

6:47

is about. what the film is this concern that

6:49

it's adding fuel to that fire. fuel to

6:51

also the fact that Donald Trump has

6:53

praised the film. Trump has praised the film. In an email

6:55

to his supporters, to his said, I'm Trump said,

6:58

I'm going to have to try and

7:00

do my my impression now. now. Please do, please do.

7:02

freedom has been a national sensation and

7:04

a colossal success and a office. Really big

7:06

numbers. at the Everyone should see it. big Huge

7:08

numbers. No one has it. Huge No, you

7:10

don't Nobody has better box office. No, that's it. You think you

7:12

Huge numbers. Nobody has better has better box office. No. Nobody.

7:14

So it is that sense it is that sense sort of,

7:16

not of, the even just the Q and

7:19

on stuff, but the more general culture war

7:21

between progressives and conservatives and it's playing

7:23

to that base of the Trump side of

7:25

things. the Trump So side of things. Yeah, some some interesting

7:27

questions there. I I don't think I'll ever

7:29

see this film because because I don't it'll be

7:31

released over here unless it turns up on

7:33

some streaming service at some point. But

7:35

I don't think it's going to get a

7:37

cinematic release as far as I can

7:39

tell. a cinematic release as far know you I

7:42

to start with I don't know where I mean

7:44

the misleading ticket sales I that something that

7:46

should be stamped down on that something that should just

7:48

nothing you can do with something nothing you can

7:50

do mean like that? I mean... It's one those things of

7:52

those things that all you almost don't really

7:54

want to give any air time to even discuss

7:56

because it's obviously been done for a very

7:58

specific reason, you know to inflate the idea

8:01

that there are hordes of people who want

8:03

to go and see this kind of garbage. this

8:05

kind of garbage. if you don't, if you just

8:07

ignore it, it's like like. Does that just solve

8:09

solve the problem, you know, as opposed to

8:11

really trying to stamp it out to stamp it out, really?

8:13

Because a system, people can game, they will

8:15

try and do it, won't they? can know, will try

8:17

and do it, the minds You know, I just just

8:19

don't pay any attention, you know, I just, think,

8:21

though, even though this is happening, I do

8:23

think there are lots of people actually seeing

8:26

the film as well. I think there is

8:28

a base for are cinema actually don't think we

8:30

always see it because I think there are

8:32

other films that we don't get over here,

8:34

which play into this, you know we know, or we

8:36

do get, and they're not a big deal,

8:38

a big deal but I think there's an

8:40

audience for like for like -based or

8:42

conservative narratives that that probably feels

8:45

like most Hollywood stuff doesn't speak to

8:47

them. speak to them like this like this

8:49

which is. it's it's fascinating because

8:51

our culture is so much less religious

8:53

than the the United States that we almost

8:55

understand it a lot of the time. a

8:57

lot you ever seen any of these

8:59

kind of any of these kind of of, you know,

9:01

movies? know I remember watching watching one... that was,

9:04

we had Nicholas Cage in called left

9:06

behind. Behind once, it was about

9:08

a plane. He was was a plane, pilot or

9:10

something. And the plane vanished years. It

9:12

was a was a bit like the know? you know. And

9:14

it was And it was And it was, the mad, the

9:16

madest thing was, thing was it was directed

9:18

by Vik Armstrong, know, the Vik

9:20

Armstrong, the the From the bunk. From the bike. Yeah.

9:23

like a brilliant stuntman. I was like, Jesus Christ,

9:25

like it was literally, it was really it was odd have you

9:27

was really odd. No I Have you seen

9:29

any of any I haven't seen any of

9:31

them from I mean it's from, I mean, it's different

9:33

to what you're talking about, but you

9:35

obviously get things like the the passion of the Christ

9:38

or whatever which is I think I think

9:40

probably plays to that crowd, but operates in a

9:42

different way. it's an odd kind of No, it's an odd

9:44

kind of of the again, I think lots of the

9:46

films just aren't released over here there is a

9:48

feeling that there just won't be an audience for

9:50

them, so. them so It's kind of a particular US phenomenon it

9:52

seems. don't know what I don't know what to

9:54

say about the and stuff because I haven't seen

9:56

the film, I'm just kind just kind of... got

9:58

the the ick of the... the people involved and

10:00

some of the people endorsing the film but

10:03

what I suppose the general question then,

10:05

so it's about, you know, apparently it's a

10:07

thriller or a drama or something and it

10:10

isn't completely accurate with the particulars

10:12

of what it's depicting, i .e. child

10:14

trafficking. So I suppose you could

10:16

question whether, well, could you say,

10:18

well, liberties are fine in the

10:20

name of entertainment, and it's necessary.

10:22

or is it a bit more pernicious than that? I

10:25

mean, I suppose if you flipped it

10:27

round, a lot of these people would

10:29

suggest that some of the more liberal

10:31

-minded movies. are doing

10:33

exactly the same thing their trying

10:35

to enforce a worldview and a

10:38

mindset on everyone that these people don't

10:40

agree with and it's I think it's very

10:42

difficult to sort of put yourself in

10:44

that in those shoes and try and and

10:46

to think about a film like this

10:48

that to us sounds like Batshit

10:50

mental you know like a lot of

10:52

these like a lot of these

10:55

people's mind worldview does know these more

10:57

extreme conservatives You know to us

10:59

they seem like they're all you know,

11:01

an olive short of a pizza,

11:03

you know, that completely out there,

11:05

but is it is it of those things

11:07

where we have to, if we want to

11:10

live in a society where we have... we have

11:12

freedom of speech without it being toxic

11:14

and abusive, which is where a lot of

11:16

these people get it wrong. know, know

11:18

they they to equate the two. but But

11:20

if we we've we just to accept

11:22

that if we're going to make films that

11:24

are particularly left leaning and to be

11:26

fair, most of the popular media, you know,

11:28

in terms of entertainment, is liberal minded

11:30

in certainly in terms of what they promote,

11:32

maybe not in their practices and their

11:34

corporate, you know, etc. But in terms of

11:37

the messaging that goes out in most

11:39

movies, is, it is in theory about a

11:41

more progressive world and more tolerant world, know,

11:43

that the message in a lot of all their

11:45

cautionary tales, like up and high on the

11:47

say you know, about what man doing, about what

11:49

governments are doing, you know, it's that the

11:51

majority of films are not about the

11:54

kind of things that we were considered pernicious. But do we just

11:56

have to live in a society where we have both, and

11:58

that the people who want go... and watch Sound Freedom

12:01

and believe all this QAnon madness are

12:03

allowed to do that? You

12:05

know, that's the thing. Yeah,

12:07

I think so on some level I think

12:09

it's just that when you get to the

12:11

extremes it gets very worrying because I'm sure

12:14

some I'm sure I would hope quite a

12:16

lot of the people who are actually going

12:18

to see this film. aren't QAnon believers. Maybe

12:20

I'm just sharing my naivety there,

12:22

but. they be conservative minded,

12:24

but I'm maybe not thinking there's actually

12:26

a shadowy elite of Democrats who are running

12:28

like a major paedophile ring or something.

12:30

I would I would hope that's the case.

12:33

And again, I'm happy to be You

12:35

know, or at least I'm happy for some of

12:37

our American listeners to Give me

12:39

some extra context or whatever, but let's

12:41

say somebody there's a bit of a

12:43

pivot but I would say something like Clint

12:46

Eastwood, who's a conservative filmmaker, you know,

12:48

he's a conservative guy in certain ways.

12:50

I don't think he ever like explicitly

12:52

endorsed Trump and I think he did

12:54

express misgivings about Trump's conduct and certain

12:56

things, but someone who's definitely on the

12:58

right right side of American politics. Although

13:02

heard him described as kind of socially

13:04

liberal, but fiscally conservative, you know, yeah,

13:06

but I think films of his like American

13:08

sniper or like Richard Jewel, which

13:11

have been successful And I think they

13:13

play sometimes to a broad audience but sometimes

13:15

a more conservative leaning crowd. They

13:18

see I have seen those films and

13:20

I'd imagine they're more thoughtful than

13:22

the kind of film I'm describing here

13:24

in Sound of Freedom or some

13:26

of faith -based movies that you're talking

13:28

about. you know, I think it's right

13:30

to have a spectrum of views

13:32

represented. think when you get to the

13:34

extremes, it gets tricky and gets

13:36

quite uneasy. I feel

13:39

uneasy. thinking about it, you

13:41

know? it's a tough one. It is

13:43

a really tough one because the instinct

13:45

from from is to say, people shouldn't

13:47

be watching this. Like, it could really

13:49

it could really damaging. It could really

13:51

should be allowed to, but should choose

13:53

not to. Oh, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:55

Yeah. And I think that's where the

13:58

problems stem. That's where the polarization develops

14:00

because... that's where these people have a to beat

14:02

to beat with and say, oh, well, of of

14:04

speech We're allowed to know, and so you've got

14:06

to be careful. to got to be able to

14:08

say got to You know. to say you know

14:10

but feel free and watch all this all

14:12

this this is why it's fiction why is

14:14

why it is just fiction like it

14:16

is as much fiction as as the Guardians

14:18

of the of the Galaxy 3. know it's not

14:20

it's not real and that and that's

14:23

where hope then you know even if they're you

14:25

said you'd hope that most people even

14:27

if go and watch it, would know it would go

14:29

and watch it they would have, at that they

14:31

know at they would have of least, or they know

14:33

at least some of it is, they might

14:35

believe one or two things, but least know the

14:37

gist of it is of it is fiction it's it's only

14:39

going to be a really hardcore group of

14:41

people. of people. who was so far down

14:44

that that rubber differently. think wouldn't you really? You'd hope

14:46

But I suppose you the concern is

14:48

about how much but I suppose the has added

14:50

to the fire, isn't it? Not just

14:52

by. to the fire, isn't it? Not but

14:54

by of the politicians but like some of the

14:57

as robust as they should be at as

14:59

they should be at this stuff, let's say. I'm

15:01

not going to watch it, I'm not going to

15:03

watch it, basically. Although, can I just can I just

15:05

say that we're could argue we're like reluctant

15:07

to group it with those films, but

15:09

you could argue that this is a

15:11

film that again that again shows... at least some

15:13

level of hunger for original stories, you

15:15

know, you know. with with Oppenheimer or Barbie to a certain

15:18

to a certain extent, a you know, that's it's

15:20

a film that succeeded financially. a film that doesn't

15:22

film that doesn't fit the a of what a big hit

15:24

film has been over the last few years. think we're I think

15:26

we're just reluctant to put it in that category because

15:28

it seems like such an outlier it certain ways in terms

15:30

of who it's playing in and all that. in terms of who

15:33

could argue to and all that, but you of

15:35

that trend. that it's we should have

15:37

called it Maybe we should have called it. Yeah, it

15:39

wouldn't have the same room. Sound of it wouldn't

15:41

have the same way. Sound of sound

15:43

of Barbenheimer. That might have to be the name of this episode,

15:45

but have to be the name of this episode, but

15:47

I'll have to about one last thing there. This is something I well, let's

15:49

let's talk about one last thing a This is something

15:51

a to bring up, you know, it's a bit of

15:53

a Tony heavy sort of week, really, because I've

15:55

been topics. I really want But to bring well as the because I

15:58

to bring this up because this was something my wife

16:00

me. And let me put it me put it into

16:02

context. So article is, is on Apple News, husband never

16:04

sees his friends. He's part of the part of

16:06

the recession, in quotes. Now this is, this

16:08

I'm sort of straying slightly off the beaten

16:10

discourse topic here, you know, in terms

16:12

of what we normally what because this isn't

16:14

necessarily linked to the entertainment world. But I

16:16

think this podcast is becoming as much

16:19

about you and I growing into I think it

16:21

is about is So I thought, you throw I

16:23

in there. People have paid money, then

16:25

they know what they're getting. is So entertainment. So I

16:27

thought, let's throw a while, has been have paid really

16:29

concerned. know don't have any friends. know,

16:31

I'm 41 years old. has been genuinely really

16:33

let me that I do have

16:35

friends, right? You know, I'm your friend. You're

16:37

my friend. You're my you're just

16:39

one. You're my friend. That's two. I'm not going that's

16:41

two. the Latin bit though, I'm not gonna

16:43

boast about the laden bit no, I

16:45

Just you. friends, I have no, I have

16:47

of friends, with have plenty of friends

16:49

with my wife. I have plenty

16:51

of historical friends, you know, et

16:53

cetera, et cetera. But I don't

16:55

see them very often. And

16:58

I tried to expand. And my wife

17:00

is often. And I've tried to She's very good at

17:02

and my She's got loads of very good drinks

17:04

with et cetera and all this. at small,

17:06

and all this. We're about about to become

17:08

parents, as we've probably talked about on this

17:10

podcast before. talked about on this podcast it

17:12

means that our social life is gonna change,

17:14

et cetera. But she's been worried for a

17:16

while that I don't see any friends, you

17:19

know? And then I don't go out and

17:21

I don't, and the point I've made is

17:23

I you know, and that I don't go out and with my interactions

17:25

with you, made but also I'm okay interactions I

17:27

have with friends, mostly online, I like you, for

17:29

instance. We mostly we've see each other every

17:31

now and then, but most of our interaction

17:33

is online through podcasting. and And I don't feel

17:36

like I'm I don't I don't feel like I'm

17:38

missing anything. is my my point. she she's

17:40

starting to understand to understand that,

17:42

but she doesn't fully in the same way

17:44

that in the same way because she doesn't do that

17:46

stuff herself, you know, so she's more traditional in terms

17:48

of of meeting up to is it yeah

17:50

quite quite often or on on the phone

17:53

having phone which is what most

17:55

people do like I'm not suggesting. She's she's

17:57

a aberrant that way. You know you do

17:59

I do is the niche you know you know, completely.

18:01

but I and I get a a point, know, coming

18:03

a place of place worried. But I

18:05

don't feel that. And it's interesting

18:07

that she sent me this article, which

18:09

was about somebody who'd made this

18:11

point about her husband, this point about her husband a

18:13

professor professor of psychology at Oxford University, University

18:15

has said that we're in the middle

18:17

of a friendship recession with men. recession

18:20

it's happening with both sexes,

18:22

but it's happening faster with men.

18:24

And he says with men and

18:26

down to various factors, the decline

18:29

in decline in pubs cheap supermarket beer, hybrid working,

18:31

yeah, and people moving people moving around

18:33

for work now for me

18:35

is that I moved of the reason

18:38

is that I moved completely to a

18:40

different part the country. lot lot of my

18:42

friends, including you to be fair, be

18:44

a lot of my friends live in

18:46

the in the Midlands or lived in the Midlands. lived

18:48

in And I know it would, it me

18:50

like like 70 pound. of petrol to go and

18:52

see my friends for one thing thing now,

18:54

know, it's expensive to travel to see

18:57

friends because it's the three hours the road

18:59

up the road So what do do you

19:01

think about this? I mean, I you, you, you

19:03

know, I, I happened to see on Facebook,

19:05

you'd gone to watch the golf with

19:07

a mate of yours a mate of yours clearly So you

19:09

clearly like have that aspect. Do you feel anything

19:11

like this or do do you, is this a

19:13

very specific thing? Do you think for

19:15

various men? men? Well, Well, firstly, tell your wife

19:17

to pay four pounds a month for

19:20

the discourse plus, I can tell her, Mrs Black, do

19:22

do not worry about Tony, He's fine. He'll

19:24

He'll absolutely be fine. I'll pass that on. Yeah.

19:26

Yeah. Yeah, so I went to the So I went to

19:28

the Gulf of a mate last and we had

19:30

been on holiday had been on holiday with him

19:32

and his wife when we went to Las Vegas, actually, so. Yeah,

19:35

I see him fairly him fairly often. week though. I'm like

19:37

every week a bit like you probably more a

19:39

bit like you, actually. of the And I think

19:41

one of the key factors that you

19:43

mentioned is this idea of people moving around.

19:45

I And I imagine it's different depending on

19:47

what your life history has been. history has

19:49

experience was like when I was a kid,

19:51

my dad was in the my dad and

19:53

we moved a lot as he was being

19:55

as to different places. to different Then when I

19:57

left home to go to to I went

19:59

to Wales Wales. and I never back home, I but

20:01

I moved to the ultimately and I feel like my core

20:03

feel like my core to be the people I which

20:05

tends to be the people I went

20:07

to in touch with I'm not really in touch

20:10

with many people from or high school or high

20:12

school or anything. like we all but

20:14

it feels like we all ended up in different parts of the

20:16

country. so So there is that sense that when we see each other we

20:18

see each other fairly actually

20:20

fairly infrequent. quite often with male think quite

20:22

often do friendships, do you think that sense of that

20:24

sense of you may not have seen somebody

20:26

for, I or know, a year or something, something

20:28

but you sort sort of pick up where

20:30

you you off and like that time hasn't

20:33

passed sometimes. can happen. I suppose But I suppose

20:35

it's different if you, you you know, we've

20:37

got mates. you know, some of like Kurt who we

20:39

podcast with. I think he's lived in the same I think he's

20:41

lived in the same area all his life,

20:43

you know, and he's got friends that he's known

20:45

for a long time. I've got mates like

20:47

that who've not moved far from home and they still

20:49

hang around with people who they went to

20:51

primary school with and that sort of thing. of

20:53

I imagine those of people have a very different

20:56

experience, but I think I'm more like you. but I

20:58

think it can be that yeah, it can be infrequent.

21:01

in terms of when I I see people and

21:03

how much socialising I do. I do. But I think

21:05

But I think you're also right to point

21:07

out that something like this, this is as legitimate

21:10

as when we meet up to watch a

21:12

film or something like that. like that. different way

21:14

to do it, isn't it? do it, isn't it? So yeah,

21:16

I've never Yeah, I've never really thought about it

21:18

in terms of a trend before though, though. know,

21:20

in terms of this recession of friendship. of kind

21:22

of assumed that this happens to a lot

21:24

of people that my friendship group, lot of people it seemed

21:26

like there was a point where we were

21:28

meeting up every year or so was a getting married

21:30

we were meeting something. every year or so of get to a

21:32

point when everybody stopped doing that and then

21:34

it's like, you need some excuse to meet up,

21:36

but they're not coming in quite as quickly.

21:38

It seems like that's what I'm moving into now

21:41

with my friends. But same. that yeah and then No, like

21:43

you you're right. And it's really interesting to meet up but

21:45

part of the study has been. quite

21:47

is what it's what was said is

21:49

that males tend tend to be

21:51

much more club-like based around around

21:53

activity than than conversation. and and

21:55

so we don't we don't fit that don't fit that

21:57

then do we because we we do is

21:59

is converse But my wife's point wife's point

22:01

was, when happens when you

22:04

genuinely need an emotional reason? She an

22:06

emotional reason. a say if there was a

22:08

problem between us, you who would you go

22:10

to? Who would you call and have a

22:12

conversation about that? Who do you know

22:14

well enough? she she doesn't think that I'd

22:16

be able to call up up you or another

22:18

podcast friend or whatever and have that conversation.

22:20

that conversation. I don't know if I would, to

22:22

be honest, because the conversation we have

22:24

is different. And it's like, like, it made

22:27

me stop to, it made me stop and would I go

22:29

to in that situation? situation? Yeah, because if

22:31

you called me, you'd be like, be like, Carl, I've

22:33

got an got an emotional problem to to discuss, Have

22:35

you okay, Nolan seen the Christopher Nolan film yet? we'd

22:37

start talking about movies, probably. movies, probably. I I

22:39

doubt for a minute that you a minute

22:41

that you would, you wouldn't, you'd talk to me,

22:43

you'd have a company, you know, I

22:46

don't doubt that for a minute. me, But

22:48

it's like, there are certain, I think

22:50

I don't doubt that The point is that

22:52

men, I think, gravitate towards, certain, I think

22:54

men, the point is contact for a

22:56

reason. Whereas towards often will just do it

22:58

because they want to see each other and

23:00

they just want to chat about quite is that

23:02

men I think well, why are we doing that?

23:04

What, what like with it? We are friends

23:06

you know, it would be know, you'd have

23:09

guys who'd be like, we're friends because

23:11

we support the same football team. And team. Yeah.

23:13

We go about football nonstop, but we we about

23:15

talk about like our inner, you know, You know, arena or

23:17

or whatever. in a conflict. Yeah, and I get that. no, I

23:19

get that. It sounds And I'm not a try I'm

23:21

not a try it all men men don't open

23:23

up or anything, I suppose I get the idea that that

23:25

people meet for a reason, men. I men.

23:28

I totally understand that. I I think one

23:30

of the things I found interesting in that

23:32

article was, didn't it was didn't it say know,

23:34

it was a tendency to think of... to think of socializing and

23:36

groups of friends or whatever

23:38

but say something about or whatever. Actually,

23:40

the the ideal number might be much smaller. It might

23:42

be that you've got like four or five close

23:45

friends and you don't need too many more than that.

23:47

many more than that. Did I rightly does it say

23:49

something about that and do you think that's about right? that?

23:51

And do you think that's I mean, my wife

23:53

says, says, know, know, I mentioned people at work, I said,

23:55

oh, people at work, new friend you can

23:57

make a new a new that's a

23:59

new friend. I don't want any new friend, I don't,

24:01

it's admin, it's work, like stop giving me work to

24:03

do to invest in people. Like I've got, I've got

24:05

lots of people, I talk, it's quite funny, where is

24:07

she, if she, if she smelt gets a cent of

24:09

a new possible friend, she loves it, she's like, oh,

24:11

I can befriend them, that's brilliant, let's do that, you

24:14

know, I'm like, oh I don't want to do that,

24:16

like, like, like, or I, like, or I, like, or

24:18

I, like, or I, like, or I, like, like, like,

24:20

or I, like, like, or I, like, like, like, like,

24:22

like, like, like, like, or I, like, like, like, like,

24:24

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

24:26

like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

24:28

There was an example of, there was a guy, and

24:30

fair play to this guy, but on a local community

24:32

group on Facebook, he put a message out there saying,

24:34

and he was like in his mid-40s or whatever, and

24:36

he put a message out saying, and he was like

24:38

in his mid-40s or whatever, and he put a message

24:41

out saying, I don't have anyone to go to the

24:43

cinema with, and I really want to go and see

24:45

Oppenheimer, and I'd love to have a friend who I

24:47

can talk to, do I can talk to, do know

24:49

what mate. good for you that is brave putting yourself

24:51

out there on a community group and my wife immediately

24:53

went oh there you go message him message him getting

24:55

touched you guys could meet up here he lives down

24:57

the road and I was like no I'm not doing

24:59

that I just couldn't do it like and that says

25:01

more about me than him because I admire him greatly

25:03

for that actually but she was really disappointed she was

25:06

like oh but that's a friend you could make a

25:08

friend you could go to the pub you could talk

25:10

about up and home or with him I said I

25:12

could talk to Carla about Oppenite, I could talk to

25:14

like, this is the thing, and that's the difference. And

25:16

that's why it's just an interesting topic because it's clearly

25:18

a trend in men, I think particularly, where it's maybe

25:20

growing and maybe there's lots of reasons for that. Maybe

25:22

it is the fact we live in more online world

25:24

now, maybe it is the fact that we live geographically

25:26

in different spaces like you said people like, as an

25:28

example say might have those close friendships because he's never

25:31

moved away from where he lives, so it. Yeah, I

25:33

just find it a fascinating topic, Carl, really. I find

25:35

it really, and it's very applicable to me. Okay, but

25:37

like, firstly, it sounds like that guy who placed the

25:39

ad or the whatever the message, that's a podcast room

25:41

waiting, Tony. I mean, you might want to meet with

25:43

him in person, but he could definitely, yeah, come on

25:45

as a guest on one of your shows or something.

25:47

It's a good point, you know, maybe, yeah. You'll just

25:49

talk and talk and talk and talk, because he's not

25:51

spoken to he's not spoken to he's not spoken to

25:53

anyone. He's not spoken to anyone. So it's a long

25:56

time in real real life. a good

25:58

a good point, You know, how much

26:00

You know, how much of

26:02

a married being married play in

26:04

all don't know if you don't know

26:06

if you ever have that

26:08

feeling like some of the of the

26:10

of the guys I am good good friends

26:12

with. husbands, they seem very they seem very

26:14

different. Now, I don't think I

26:16

am. I think I'm recognizably like the

26:18

same the same person, but just how domesticated

26:21

they've become they've become and how they weren't

26:23

like that before. that before. I don't know if that's

26:25

the same with you. Like, do you

26:27

feel like you've changed as a married man? a

26:29

do you find do you married? that

26:31

being up a lot of the energy you

26:33

would the have put towards going out or, you

26:35

know. going being or, friends, being up

26:37

with friends, actually married married know, know, a

26:39

lot of effort needs to go on being

26:42

married on being married and You know what I mean, You

26:44

know what I mean, I'm sure you know. I I I think true. true.

26:46

And it all in a in a positive way, know, know,

26:48

absolutely in a positive way. But way, but... Yeah, it

26:50

is. is. It is. And I think one

26:52

of the things she worries about is that

26:54

I'm too emotionally reliant on her. I'm too

26:56

know, because as you always find,

26:58

you know, you're worried, know, you always find,

27:01

wife does become your best friend in many ways.

27:03

wife does you do, your are the first person you

27:05

talk to. And you know, she and I

27:07

have a lot of stuff in common. know, she's,

27:10

she'll excitedly watch Oppenheimer with me when she

27:12

can come to the cinema, you know, for instance, and

27:14

we'll talk about Nolan does become your know, we've got

27:16

all that. We've got films, we've got ways, cetera.

27:18

you know, Equally, we've got lots of things we

27:20

do that we don't share and that go go

27:22

off and do. So I can do all that with can

27:24

do all that be there, but I

27:26

think she worries about that emotional reliance

27:28

and that she likes the idea of

27:30

me having friends separate Who she can

27:32

just go who she not not because she

27:34

wants to go off and bitch about

27:36

me to to go do that bitch know,

27:38

I'm pretty sure she doesn't do that you know I'm go

27:40

he watches a lot of films watches a

27:42

lot of films. He's such a liner. Yeah exactly. But you know it's a

27:44

good know, She a good point it's what's got thinking

27:46

what's got me thinking because I think

27:48

you do you do. you do invest a

27:51

lot, a lot you think you do change.

27:53

do change i I genuinely think think she's she's

27:55

me up up many ways, like know,

27:57

she's made me a better made me a better man but

27:59

it's It does mean that you don't feel the need,

28:02

I think, to just go out and do something mindlessly

28:04

with other mates. If I'm going to meet up with

28:06

a friend of mine to go and, I don't know.

28:08

Yeah, go to the football or go and watch the

28:10

snoo- I keep saying, like I really would love to

28:13

go watch the snooke, or like that kind of thing.

28:15

We need to do it. We need to go and

28:17

do that, and I think we will, right? I think

28:19

we should do it. If Tony, we could podcast about

28:21

it, that's your, you know, you said it has to

28:24

be goal-oriented. If we go-watch and we could talk about

28:26

it on a podcast. Yeah, we can sit in the

28:28

crucible, yeah, do it, do it, do it, do it,

28:30

do it, do it, do it, do it, and we

28:33

can do it, do it, do it, do it, do

28:35

it, in the, in the cafe. But no. But no,

28:37

and we could, and we could, and we could, do

28:39

it, do it, and we could, do it, do it,

28:41

do it, do it, do it, do it, do it,

28:44

do it, do it, it doesn't mean that that's all

28:46

we're going to do we're enjoying each other's company as

28:48

blokes but it's like we need to have an idea

28:50

of why we're doing it as opposed to just going

28:53

and doing it for the for the just purely for

28:55

the fun of it yeah yeah I think we should

28:57

talk I feel like your therapist today and I feel

28:59

like we should do one of these as well for

29:01

maybe on the next discourse plus or something I don't

29:04

know but your impending parenthood and how your life is

29:06

going to change. I want to I want to set

29:08

some expectations for you in that regard. You've already done

29:10

this a little bit, but yeah, what is going to

29:13

be like as a parent introducing your child to films

29:15

that you love and stuff like that. I want to

29:17

I want to prepare you for how that can go

29:19

badly wrong, there as well. No, I look forward to

29:21

that. I think there is something to this though, and

29:24

I think that... I don't know if, I don't want

29:26

to end on a morbid point, but I sometimes wonder

29:28

what my life would be like if my wife dies

29:30

before me. I mean, that hopefully is a long time.

29:33

Hopefully that won't happen. I'd rather I went first in

29:35

some way, you know. Well, that was part of the

29:37

piece in this article, which was, you know, men end

29:39

up, because they're lazy, that was the thing that they're

29:41

socially quite lazy, and they're socially, my wife's think, well

29:44

what that? what would you, I said, Steve, I

29:46

have, I have a ton I then I will

29:48

ton of films. many films then

29:50

I will have collected, like I'll just

29:53

many films I DVD watch these

29:55

collected. I'll be fine, just sit there

29:57

until I die have, watch

29:59

these movies. I said, I'll

30:01

be fine. shopping I'll never leave

30:04

the house. it'll be By then,

30:06

we'll have drones that can

30:08

just deliver my shopping through

30:10

the window. response, my response, my be

30:13

fine. response, my response, was my

30:15

response. I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm

30:17

sure, her. I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm

30:19

sure, I'm sure, gave me a

30:21

look. I'm sure, gave me a

30:24

bit of sure, really? I'm sure, I'm sure,

30:26

I But no, it's a good It's a

30:28

good ongoing topic. So think enjoyed

30:30

enjoyed talking. Yeah, let's let's let's revisit

30:32

these kind of things. That would be good. That

30:34

be good be be good. Right, well if

30:37

right. Well, if you're still here and

30:39

you haven't decided to catch up

30:41

because it's just because session a and session,

30:43

we'll be back for for more normal discourse

30:45

and some some bonus discourse to come.

30:47

I hope you've enjoyed the this week. week.

30:50

Thanks as ever for supporting us.

30:52

You are the best. best. Yeah, you

30:54

are. And how much do I

30:56

owe you for this session?

30:58

Just make sure you for this

31:00

session? is up. make sure you tell me.

31:02

Your hour is up. Yeah. See you Bye. Bye.

31:04

Bye!