0:00

This week on the lark

0:02

has... I'm not too much excited. I

0:04

think at my most hopeful this could

0:06

be something like the next arcane at

0:08

my least hopeful. This could be like

0:10

that Halo series. You won't have the

0:12

day one patch which dropped on D&D

0:15

Beyond. It's so hot right now

0:17

to do this like multi-verse thing.

0:19

Magic the Gathering actually have business

0:21

being there? We

0:23

have a new

0:25

board game coming

0:27

out. It is

0:29

called companion quest.

0:31

The most amazing

0:33

job I've ever

0:35

seen since. Twisted

0:37

Tavern taverns. All

0:39

that and more.

0:41

right now. This is

0:43

the place to do it.

0:46

My name's Benburn and I

0:48

am joined as always by

0:50

Sean Merwin, Dale Kingsville, and

0:52

standing in for James Hake

0:55

this week who's on holiday,

0:57

Logan Reese, aka Roonsmith, welcome

0:59

back to the law cast

1:01

Logan. Thank you. It's been

1:04

a long time coming. I'm

1:06

going to jump in and ask

1:08

you the hardball questions, hard and

1:10

fast here. We're not going to,

1:12

we're not going to, no, no,

1:14

what's the term Selt glove? Breaks?

1:16

Handling? Yeah. Kid gloves, kid gloves. Kid

1:18

gloves. Yeah, taking off the kid gloves.

1:21

Slap me. Are you sad? There are

1:23

no orcs in the new monster

1:25

manual. Is this an affront to you?

1:27

I'll give you one better. I'm

1:29

sad that I have not received.

1:31

any sort of review copy of

1:34

the new monster manual. So I

1:36

haven't seen a single page. Yes

1:38

and no, because orks are essentially

1:40

like they come from Lord of

1:42

the Rings, right? They didn't exist

1:45

before that narrative, and

1:47

they're just a detraction of

1:49

elves. So I'm not up in

1:51

arms about it, but I think

1:53

it is an interesting background

1:56

choice to just be like, nah,

1:58

they're gone. Of all things. What

2:00

about yourself? Do you have thoughts on

2:02

this? I have no satter that they

2:04

are not there, then elves aren't there,

2:06

dwarfs aren't there, gnomes aren't

2:09

there. That's okay. Obviously, Wizards

2:11

made the choice to make orch

2:13

a gullible species, so therefore, why

2:16

have them in the monster manual

2:18

when you have them elsewhere? And

2:20

if you don't like it, make

2:22

your own works. The same as

2:25

humans, right? Yeah, indeed. What's interesting.

2:27

is taking a closer look at

2:29

it, and you might find this

2:31

interesting Logan when you when you

2:33

mention same as humans, is that

2:36

there are no longer any

2:38

species-specific stat blocks that are

2:40

humanoid at all. Every humanoid

2:42

is now described purely by

2:44

the job or class it would

2:46

be, such as scout, spy, night,

2:48

performer, etc, etc. Which feels...

2:51

I do too. I feel like it's

2:53

more of a loric change. Then it

2:55

is in a mechanical change, then it is

2:57

any sort of kind of, you know,

2:59

grandstanding change. To me, it

3:01

feels like they're leaning more into

3:03

making monsters and monster characters feel

3:06

more like the players. The race

3:08

or species that you pick doesn't

3:10

determine anything about your step block.

3:12

It's always been your class-based monsters,

3:14

I think is an interesting choice.

3:17

I like it. Derek Kingsman, what

3:19

about yourself? I feel, I believe and feel

3:21

all the same things. but I kind of

3:23

wish it went in the other, if it

3:25

makes sense, I wish it went in the

3:27

other direction. It's like I'm not, I feel

3:29

like Wizards just made a choice, they're like,

3:31

ah, I mean, which is more in line

3:33

with what we're doing now, let's just not

3:35

put orcs in there. I'm not deeply offended

3:37

by that decision, but part of me is

3:39

just like as a use case for usefulness

3:41

as a DM if I was flipping through

3:43

the book and I wanted to be like.

3:45

Oh, and they come across a band of

3:47

elf warriors that they have to fight. I

3:49

want to be able to, I just think that

3:52

instead of taking out the orcs, I would have

3:54

loved to see them add in little examples of

3:56

like, here are elves you can fight, here are

3:58

gnomes you can fight. I think that would

4:01

have been fun and useful just

4:03

because sometimes I want to do

4:05

that. Sometimes I want my body

4:07

to fight elves and gnomes and

4:09

things. To be fair, I will

4:11

write those step blocks myself no

4:14

matter what. But other people might

4:16

not. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think

4:18

that's a fair criticism. I was having

4:20

discussions on Blue Sky about the absence

4:23

of kind of templating for species to

4:25

be added to a humanoid stat block.

4:27

So what does an elf knight look

4:30

like versus an orc knight versus a

4:32

dwarf knight? I don't think it's too

4:34

difficult to, I mean, this is me

4:36

speaking personally. I don't think it's too

4:39

difficult to just take the species traits,

4:41

you know, the core kind of combat

4:43

ones, especially from the player's handbook, which

4:46

every dungeon master will presumably also own,

4:48

and add them to whatever stack block,

4:50

as you would adjust any stack block,

4:52

if you wanted to give it that

4:54

unique feel. Yeah, for sure. I don't

4:56

think it's a difficult thing to do.

4:58

I just... I think that there are

5:00

probably a lot of DMs who do

5:03

like to flip to the page in

5:05

the monster manual and just use that

5:07

at the table as they're running. And

5:09

I think it also would be a

5:11

good chance for Wizards to check in

5:13

more specific setting law if they wanted to

5:15

be like, this is how it would feel if

5:18

you were, you know, but I don't know.

5:20

Again, I'm not deeply offended by the

5:22

choice to go the other direction. I

5:24

think both would be motivated by the

5:26

same sort of core principle and it's

5:28

just one, Yeah, I think there's a

5:30

page count being going into it. Sorry,

5:32

go ahead, Sean. What we need is

5:34

really just a lot of humanoid stat

5:37

blocks. Yeah. Because we have the guards

5:39

and we have the bandits and we

5:41

have all those, but they're all very

5:43

low level. It begs the question, what

5:45

happens when you're 12th level and you

5:47

need a guard that's a very strong

5:49

guard? You can go to the guard

5:51

oil stat block and just turn them

5:54

into some sort of, you know, this

5:56

has really, really, really, really good

5:58

armor and... is magically. been

6:00

ignored to your damage, etc.,

6:02

etc. But yeah. Well, there

6:05

are different levels of stat

6:07

block for the humanoids, for

6:09

most of them, I believe.

6:11

So there's multiple guard stat

6:14

blocks, there's multiple Bandits, there's

6:16

multiple performer, etc., etc. etc.

6:18

cultist at kind of scaling CR's.

6:20

The way, like, would you have

6:22

a gang, like a group of

6:24

guard captains, and every person in

6:26

that group is a captain, just...

6:28

for the sake of having the

6:31

CR high, you probably just wouldn't

6:33

call them guard captains at that point

6:35

in world. So there is some kind

6:37

of trying to take that into account

6:39

in terms of providing those staff blocks

6:41

of different CR as there are for

6:43

a lot of monster types in the

6:45

monster types in the monster types in

6:47

the monster types in the monster types.

6:50

As there are for a lot of

6:52

monster types in the monster types. I

6:54

just feel like a lot of the

6:56

discourse around this book as being. Other

6:58

cool great stuff as well. Speaking of

7:00

the monster manual, a little bit of

7:03

news dropped about it. Speaking of things

7:05

that doesn't have, if you've got a

7:07

print copy or you're going to get

7:09

a print copy, you won't have the

7:12

day one patch, which dropped on

7:14

D&D Beyond a couple of days

7:16

ago, 20 monsters in the 2025

7:18

months of manual have received small

7:20

updates, which are noted via the

7:22

D&D Beyond a change log. Most

7:24

changes, incredibly minor for... for what it's

7:27

worth. So Ancient Red Dragon had the

7:29

spell casting action that said once per

7:31

day, that has now been changed to

7:33

once per day each, so that the

7:35

implication being you can cast each spell once

7:37

per day, not choose a spell to cast

7:39

once per day, if that makes difference. So

7:41

it's more changes like that. Are you upset

7:43

if you ordered a print copy and it's

7:45

not going to have these changes in it,

7:48

or do you not think it's that big

7:50

deal? It's nice to have misprint copies of

7:52

stuff, I think. Like I

7:54

have an early early

7:57

release of Grim Hollow.

8:00

missing art and stuff, and that is

8:02

my most prized copy. Yeah,

8:06

there's always those copies. There's one, and

8:08

it might be the one you have, where

8:10

two of the icons for the factions are

8:13

swapped by accident, and it's how you

8:15

can tell whether it was like a first

8:17

print run or a second print run

8:19

is where those icons are within it. The

8:21

other thing worth noting here is that

8:23

if you're using D &D Beyond, these changes

8:25

have been implemented. You won't even have noticed,

8:27

so you don't need to use the

8:29

Orata. It's just been changed within the stat

8:31

block itself. I think Tayos talked about

8:33

this on a previous issue, how D &D

8:36

Beyond just kind of updates things in the

8:38

background, and the change log is not

8:40

easy to find. It took me, I heard

8:42

about this from EN World, and it

8:44

took me a little while to actually

8:46

find the change log to see what

8:48

these individual changes were. So, for people

8:50

who do own the physical book, it's

8:53

a little bit annoying that it's not like a blog

8:55

article or something that you can look up and reference.

8:57

You have to do a little bit of digging to

8:59

see what these changes are. I was literally

9:01

about to ask if they've got

9:03

it up somewhere that's really easy,

9:05

because that's what makes the difference

9:07

between whether it sucks or doesn't

9:09

suck to have the misprint copy.

9:11

Just put out a flyer. Just

9:13

put out a flyer, have it

9:15

right there, really easy. Let's just... Oh,

9:17

new mistakes. They haven't mentioned whether

9:19

or not any of these changes will

9:21

make it to print copies in

9:23

a second run. I'm assuming at this

9:25

point it won't be in the

9:27

first run print copies that are going

9:29

to be released later this month.

9:31

But worth noting, also 157 of those

9:33

monsters from the new Monster Manual

9:35

have been released into the free rules

9:38

that D &D Beyond has mostly low

9:40

CR. Cool. Cool. I

9:42

would take it as more of

9:44

a good faith move if they put some

9:46

more high CR stuff in there, just

9:48

because I don't know, it often feels with

9:50

the free rules that it's like, this

9:53

is your starter rules when you're just trying

9:55

it for the first time and then

9:57

you pay us. And that's totally acceptable. They're

9:59

a company. I fully get it. But it

10:01

would be nice. Just a nice little good

10:03

faith little thing since we had

10:06

such a hullabaloo about the free rules.

10:08

Maybe just check in a couple, a

10:10

couple of struggling batteries. I haven't

10:12

had a look to see specifically

10:15

what monsters they are. Just know

10:17

that they're mostly LOSI are. Your

10:19

mileage may vary. And that's kind

10:22

of the news. The carrying crawler

10:24

is hilariously broken. I don't know.

10:26

It's just another tidear. So the

10:29

carrying crawler's new ability

10:31

will paralyze you when you fail

10:34

a dexterity throw and then

10:36

you can repeat the saving throw

10:38

at the end of your turn. However,

10:40

if you are paralyzed, you

10:43

automatically fail dexterity saving throws.

10:45

Yeah, that's one thing that

10:47

I have noticed in the

10:49

few step blocks that I've

10:51

seen is they mainly just

10:53

changed the wording. So they fixed a

10:55

couple things and in doing so they

10:57

broke other things and there's a lot

11:00

of mistakes that I've noticed popping up

11:02

in stat blocks like I'm so familiar

11:04

with existing errors in the DM's guide

11:06

or in the monster manual where it's

11:08

like oh well that shouldn't be

11:10

able to do that and seeing new

11:12

slight twists to all these existing monsters

11:14

is really funny to sort of compare

11:16

the notes. And then the final little

11:18

tidbit I have here is something that.

11:20

I can't remember where I saw

11:23

this. It was pointed out in

11:25

an article, it might have been

11:27

war gamer.com, and then I wanted

11:29

to have a closer look, and

11:31

I was like, oh yeah, this

11:34

has changed. Initiative has been changed

11:36

in a lot of monster staff

11:38

blocks to add the proficiency bonus

11:40

of the monster to their

11:43

dexterity score, to generate their separate

11:45

initiative now, instead of the plus

11:47

two. used to have. And it's

11:50

a nice little way of ensuring

11:52

that monsters don't get left behind

11:55

considering there are so many class

11:57

and subclass features that give boosts.

11:59

to initiative that monsters did not have.

12:02

The other thing I've noticed about these

12:04

stat blocks is that there is like

12:06

passive initiative on every stat block which

12:08

is 10 plus whatever their initiative bonus

12:10

is for DEMs to just throw it

12:13

into wherever it would slot into within

12:15

the initiative to ensure the monster never

12:17

ends up at the bottom of the

12:19

the order from a bad role. Do

12:21

we any of us use passive initiative?

12:23

Do we think there's a good change?

12:26

I like it. I like it but

12:28

I'm again I'm the kind of DM

12:30

who if I'm if I'm trying to

12:32

make sure that my monster doesn't end

12:34

up lasting initiative or whatever I'm the

12:37

kind of DM who's just like when

12:39

an initiative do I want this wants

12:41

it to go and I will pretend

12:43

to roll and I'll put it there

12:45

like if I'm like I think half

12:48

the party should go before this I'll

12:50

put it halfway if I want the

12:52

whole party to go before I'll put

12:54

it you know I just I'm gonna

12:56

fake it I'm gonna fake it I'm

12:58

gonna fake it. I like to run

13:01

in combats with a bunch of different

13:03

monsters. So rolling for like eight different

13:05

monsters, I have to take a break.

13:07

It's like 15 minutes before we get

13:09

into combat. So just to be able

13:12

to slap those numbers down, it's really

13:14

convenient. A little less math. Yeah. I'm

13:16

in the Dale School of initiative. When

13:18

does it make most of storywise? Especially

13:20

if you have three different kinds of

13:23

monsters and you know that, oh, I

13:25

want the boss to go last after

13:27

them. it's minions run forward and attack.

13:29

I'll take five, take 10, and take

13:31

15 on those three different monsters and

13:33

put them in a little higher than

13:36

they should or a little lower than

13:38

they should depending on the story. Well

13:40

I have a question about that and

13:42

it's going to sound like a critique

13:44

of that strategy but it's not intended

13:47

as because I've certainly been frustrated by

13:49

monsters. Rolling low and just getting whaled

13:51

on by every member of the party

13:53

except that one dude who always rolls

13:55

low and Knows that they've got to

13:58

wait 10 minutes before their turn and

14:00

it is, do you feel like initiative

14:02

is still mechanically relevant if you're just

14:04

deciding where the monsters go? Obviously players

14:06

will have different initiative scores among themselves,

14:09

but does that really matter? It's still

14:11

relevant. It doesn't, I don't just put

14:13

them anywhere. I will roll and in

14:15

very certain, you know, very specific situations

14:17

I will change, but I'm still rolling,

14:19

I'm still... following the dice. It's just

14:22

sometimes I know that if I could

14:24

be me rolling 20s for all my

14:26

monsters and I know if all my

14:28

monsters go first they're all going to

14:30

be jammed in this doorway and all

14:33

of this other stuff I had in

14:35

this room is not going to work.

14:37

So storywise I am going to let

14:39

the players go at least a few

14:41

of them go first. so they can

14:44

come into the room and we can

14:46

have the encounter I decide. And particularly

14:48

if it's like a big set piece

14:50

battle that feels like it's got like

14:52

a key moment in the story or

14:54

something like that, it just I often

14:57

find myself anyway because I'm writing my

14:59

own stack locks. If I catch myself

15:01

trying to finagle the numbers so that

15:03

the chances work in my favor then

15:05

at that point I'm like screw it

15:08

just put it way. it feels right.

15:10

Because if I catch myself going, well,

15:12

but maybe if I just tweak up

15:14

its initiative bonus to a plus seven

15:16

instead, then if I roll, then the

15:19

chances of getting, and that's just stupid

15:21

at that point. Because the rest of

15:23

the time, I almost stopped writing initiative

15:25

bonuses because I was like, I actually

15:27

don't care, I'll just roll a flat

15:29

dice so that I don't have to

15:32

do maths. So if I find myself

15:34

caring about it and trying to like

15:36

play the odds, that's when I go,

15:38

it matters enough to me. that I

15:40

should just put it where it belongs.

15:43

The other thing worth mentioning is that

15:45

initiative order does still matter regardless of

15:47

the monstrand of things for their whole

15:49

player classes where it matters that you

15:51

know you think about the assassin rogue

15:54

where a huge amount of it is

15:56

about who hasn't gone before you in

15:58

initiative in those sorts of things. things.

16:00

And I like designing that sort of

16:02

thing into subclasses as well. So I

16:04

always like the light solution of if a

16:07

monster gets a high initiative, it's allowed to

16:09

hold its full initiative like how you can

16:11

hold a turn or prepare an action and

16:13

let it choose to drop down and then

16:15

keep that initiative for the rest of the

16:18

fight. I know it's silly, but I never

16:20

display initiative because I kind of at least

16:22

for the first round of combat want players

16:24

to kind of be guessing and not

16:27

overly metering where they are

16:29

in the initiative order to be like,

16:31

oh, well, I won't do this

16:33

yet because you're going to go

16:35

immediately after me. So if I

16:38

do this, then you can do,

16:40

you know, some games like, for

16:42

example, the MCDM role playing game,

16:45

draw steel, kind of has that

16:47

as a feature of the game,

16:49

right, where you can strategize around

16:52

where your initiative's going to be.

16:54

players obviously know where everything fell

16:56

in the initiative order and so

16:58

they can just start you know

17:00

kind of strategizing around that i

17:02

like the idea of moving monster

17:04

initiative around in a way that's fair that

17:06

will keep them guessing a little bit so that

17:08

when it does act earlier in the next round

17:11

it's like wait what do that and I kind

17:13

of this that reminds me just a little

17:15

bit of when I was mucky around with

17:17

the ghost design couple years ago and for

17:19

the ghost I wanted it to not be

17:22

manifested for the first part of the encounter

17:24

and so I just rolled like five different

17:26

initiatives and the idea was like the

17:28

first round of things happening it acts on

17:30

one initiative and I have to pick just one

17:32

of those for it to go and then

17:34

on the second round it does it on two

17:37

different initiatives that I pick from the two

17:39

yeah and it just kind of built up over

17:41

time. That's a cool idea, because the

17:43

idea of re-rolling initiative every round always

17:45

felt laborious to me. I mean, we've

17:48

had this conversation before, but initiative itself

17:50

can take a minute or two of like

17:52

loading screen, but you know, the Pokemon, did,

17:54

did, did, did, did, did, did, did, bit

17:57

moment, because everybody's rolling, then you've got to

17:59

put them in. and take down the

18:01

role, the, the, the, you know, who

18:03

got highest, who got next, ten or

18:05

above, etc., etc. etc. And that's always

18:08

felt like it would just be a

18:10

massive pause in the combat to do

18:12

that at the start of every round.

18:15

But if you did it for the

18:17

monster only, rolled them all at the

18:19

start of the combat and noted them

18:22

down. I like that idea. That's cool

18:24

idea. It is called Companion Quest. Co-designed

18:26

I should say, Logan Reese and Mark

18:29

McIntyre. On the Ghostfire team. Logan, tell

18:31

us about Companion Quest. This is a

18:33

cool kind of light-hearted co-op family board

18:36

game that is apparently brutally difficult. Yeah,

18:38

and that's Mark's fault. I remember when

18:40

we started the game, it was like,

18:43

yeah, we want the demographic to be

18:45

anywhere from like six years old, like

18:47

going up. And every time we got

18:49

back to the meeting, he's like, it

18:52

feels too easy. I'm like, yeah. It's

18:54

super fun. I love that it is

18:56

a collaborative game, but just to give

18:59

the rundown, it's a one to four

19:01

player game where you play as a

19:03

gnome or one of these members of

19:06

this family of gnomes. and your job

19:08

is to hunt down a creature that

19:10

is going absolutely haywire because it has

19:13

the ability to open up portals to

19:15

anywhere at any time in any reality.

19:17

And it's basically just kind of on

19:20

a sugar rush. So it's running around

19:22

the world opening way too much, causing

19:24

way too much havoc and these gnomes

19:27

are the only ones who can grab

19:29

it and calm it down. And as

19:31

you go through these certain stages and

19:33

you move further and further toward this.

19:36

you know, along the companion quest, you

19:38

get all your companions, you gather them

19:40

up, they help you play the game,

19:43

change up the dice rolls that you

19:45

have to beat either challenges or move

19:47

further along the quest board. I mean,

19:50

this is a kind of a board

19:52

game spinoff or sequel to Stibble's Codex

19:54

of Companions, which was that your first

19:57

RPG book that we did with Ghostfire?

19:59

Yeah, that's the first one where they

20:01

flew down to LA and we actually

20:04

met and talked about all the concepts

20:06

around it where we started with the

20:08

plushies and the cards and every single

20:11

little monster. It was super super fun.

20:13

That's, you know, what got me into a.

20:15

being a part of this community which is

20:17

super nice and it's nice to be able

20:19

to revisit that IP in a new fun

20:22

way and introduce Stibble's siblings of which he

20:24

has like 11 there's 12 of them. Is

20:26

that all the monsters that you're collecting are

20:28

like directly from the the familiars that you

20:30

could take in fifth edition from Stills Codex

20:33

and companions are the ones you're collecting for

20:35

the board game? I think there's like a

20:37

hundred and seventeen. in the initial book or

20:39

120 or something. But we dropped it down

20:41

a little bit because some of the companions

20:44

are pretty crazy in that book. And it's

20:46

nice to have some more friendly ones,

20:48

ones that would actually join you and help

20:50

you on your adventure. So there's somewhere around

20:53

80 of them in the game and

20:55

just seeing all the art develop. I got

20:57

to do the art briefs, but that is

20:59

not taking any credit away from the

21:01

actual artists who have just done the

21:03

most amazing job I've ever seen since

21:06

twisted taverns. It's such a unique style.

21:08

All the Quest cards and the challenge

21:10

cards are just so beautiful and the

21:12

board. It's been fun to watch that

21:15

develop as it goes forward. It was

21:17

fun to make and it's fun to

21:19

play. I was actually putting together

21:21

some puzzles before we joined the

21:23

call. I've got the box right here. Yeah,

21:25

I mean, the, like you said, the art

21:27

looks amazing. Nick, who works in the Ghost

21:30

Fire Office, came one day and was just

21:32

like, this is the best art I've ever

21:34

seen. And I was like, come on, he's like,

21:36

no, no, this is the best art I've ever

21:38

seen for a tabletop product. I was like,

21:41

okay, fair enough, high praise. And it

21:43

is, it sets the mood really well.

21:45

It's obviously, like, it's a family game,

21:48

it's super, just like inviting, I guess

21:50

is the word that I'm looking for.

21:52

We've, the kind of prototypes we have

21:54

a pretty feature complete from my understanding,

21:57

and the production quality is really high

21:59

on it. working the booth at convention

22:01

will have all our books out and

22:03

we'll give the pitch going down the

22:06

table of super dark and apocalypse and

22:08

here's it here's Stibble's Codex and we'll

22:10

start describing it and people like give

22:12

me that one every time it's like

22:14

oh I love dark stuff so give

22:16

me that one oh and I'll take

22:19

Stibles and it's always the first book

22:21

we run out of and it's it's

22:23

such a great thing and I can't

22:25

wait to see this game I do

22:27

have to ask when you say the

22:29

companions that made it across. I have

22:32

a feeling they didn't, but they're my

22:34

personal favorite. Did the denticles make it

22:36

across? Yep, they're in there. I was

22:38

actually working with them in one of

22:40

the puzzles. Denticles or denticles? I could

22:42

never actually decide. Right, right, right there.

22:45

That's fair. For folks who don't know,

22:47

they're basically like just a handful of

22:49

little teeth with faces. Just undid teeth.

22:51

some next answer was like what if

22:53

I had a little guys I can't

22:55

decide whether they are existentiality terrifying or

22:58

the most adorable thing that I've ever

23:00

seen no they want their way in

23:02

your mouth they are they are terrifying

23:04

oh wow do not fall asleep near

23:06

them the kickstarter for companion quest is

23:08

launching on March 4th how you feeling

23:10

Logan are you feeling ready prepared excited

23:13

excited I've got a bunch of stuff

23:15

lined up actually in that vein I

23:17

haven't announced it yet because we're doing

23:19

the initial play test but with D&D

23:21

Shorts, Ginny D, and Pointy Hat. We're

23:23

going to be doing a live play

23:26

on the 27th if everything works well

23:28

in scheduling is a through line. So

23:30

I'm super excited to do that and

23:32

that's like an early just before the

23:34

launch of the game. I hope everyone

23:36

enjoys it as much as I do.

23:39

What's been the difference for you designing

23:41

for a RPG versus designing for a

23:43

board game? Is that been like a

23:45

change of gears? Absolutely, yeah. RPG is

23:47

heavily narrative. you know you want this

23:49

story to be told and you want

23:52

to make it accessible and with D&D

23:54

it's it's this sort of tough line

23:56

of it's like programming it's well if

23:58

the players do this than that. But

24:00

with the board game, you just set up the

24:03

rules and they play themselves and you just

24:05

get to, you know, come at it at

24:07

face value and enjoy how the mechanics work

24:09

and get surprised by all these these new

24:11

ways that the game sort of plays itself

24:13

as you're trying to figure out how to

24:15

beat it. I would almost argue more fun.

24:18

I don't know. We'll go check it out.

24:20

Sign up for the kick started, get notified

24:22

when it launches, because it's going to be

24:24

fun. Magic the Gathering. Is apparently

24:26

getting a cinematic universe and

24:28

speaking of tabletop games as

24:31

well So D&D cinematic universe

24:33

so last year this is

24:35

kind of tangentially related as

24:37

opposed to tabletop games Magic

24:39

the gathering is getting a

24:41

cinematic universe Hasbro and

24:43

legendary entertainment have announced

24:46

Starting with a film going

24:48

into possibly a multiverse across

24:50

TV and film and then see where

24:52

it'll develop from there can I get

24:54

a whoo! Whoo! Whoo! I, well, okay, here's

24:56

the thing, here's the thing, okay, bear

24:59

with, bear with, bear with, yeah, no,

25:01

bearing, bearing, thank you, because

25:03

it's so hot right now to do

25:05

this like multiverse thing with

25:07

your, with your properties, and,

25:09

and be like, ooh, different

25:11

realities, blah, blah, blah, blah,

25:13

magic the gathering is the

25:15

first time more or less

25:17

that I'm seeing people try

25:19

to leap on that trend

25:21

who actually have business being

25:23

there. Because that's like

25:26

literally the like idea behind

25:28

Magic the Gathering is. So

25:30

yeah, exactly. And so I'm,

25:32

you know, I'm tentatively a

25:34

little bit excited because

25:36

they do they have a suite

25:38

of like characters and favorites and

25:41

stuff like seeing Jay's. That would

25:43

be cool. That would be cool.

25:45

And then like what settings are

25:48

we going to go to? Because

25:50

I have my faves that I would love for us

25:52

to pop in and out of. I would love to

25:54

see a bit of Ravnica. I would love to see

25:56

a bit of Exelon. You know, I would, I think we

25:58

could get something cool. Yeah, I think

26:00

the Magic the Gathering universe is

26:03

extremely fleshed out. I think the

26:05

writers that have been behind it

26:07

for years and decades, honestly, have

26:09

the perfect setting to transition into

26:11

a cinematic universe. And I think

26:13

if it's handled well, I think

26:16

it could top the charts of

26:18

whatever realm it enters. I think

26:20

it has the potential to be

26:22

great, and I'm tentatively hopeful. That's

26:24

all I can say for now.

26:26

Folks in chatter bringing up Innestrade,

26:29

which has a great plot line

26:31

as well, like they have favorite

26:33

settings that they've looked back to

26:35

a couple times, that the story

26:37

has really built up. And I

26:39

just think they have every opportunity

26:42

to make this something really cool.

26:44

So if it's not, it's not.

26:46

I'll be so sad. I'll be

26:48

angry. I mean, even if it

26:50

is cool, my question is. Does

26:52

that fan-based travel? Right. Does the

26:54

fan-based travel from their tabletop trading

26:57

card game to their series, streaming

26:59

series, to the movies, to this,

27:01

to that, to the other? Because

27:03

that's the ultimate question about these

27:05

multimedia things. You can make it

27:07

as spectacular as you want, but

27:10

if you get a... from your

27:12

really loyal fan base and you

27:14

don't get people jumping on the

27:16

bandwagon who are going to go

27:18

to the movie theater to see

27:20

a huge magic gathering movie, then

27:23

is it worth the time money

27:25

effort and hope and all investors,

27:27

right? This is Hasbro, hey investors,

27:29

we've got this going on, look

27:31

at what we're going to do.

27:33

And as soon as it's not

27:36

the major blockbuster that everyone needs

27:38

it to be in order to

27:40

make the big bucks, let's pull

27:42

the plug on it. I mean,

27:44

it's a good question. No, you're

27:46

right. It's a great question. And

27:49

it's a weird one because Magic

27:51

the Gathering, yes, we know. But

27:53

Magic the Gathering is bigger than

27:55

D&D, right? Like it's, it is

27:57

a big enough thing that it

27:59

has all its little subsets. And

28:02

it's like, you know, you've got

28:04

the category of MTG fans who

28:06

are only in it for the

28:08

competition and the card game and

28:10

the mechanics who honestly couldn't care

28:12

very much about the story. Maybe

28:15

they care about the pretty art,

28:17

who can say, but then you've

28:19

also got your subset that are

28:21

people who are kitchen table magic

28:23

players like me who just like.

28:25

They're in it for the story,

28:28

for the art, for all that

28:30

stuff, and they probably would travel.

28:32

But the ultimate question is, is

28:34

this whole, even though it is

28:36

a big community bigger than D&D,

28:38

it's still geek niche. And is it

28:40

big enough or capable enough of

28:43

capturing the hearts and minds of

28:45

people who aren't into, like Marvel

28:47

worked even though it's a niche

28:49

geek thing, because it was... a

28:51

thing that enough people could kind

28:54

of grasp and get into without

28:56

reading comments. Yeah. Will that work

28:58

for MTV? And even though it is

29:00

huge, I don't know, that's a good point.

29:02

I think the main thing that it's

29:04

up to, and you know, the through

29:06

line that it comes down to, is

29:08

if the team that is working on

29:11

it is passionate. Because like you were

29:13

saying, these people who are really big

29:15

into numbers and min-maxing their decks and

29:17

making sure that everything is

29:19

as mechanically, is the same. And

29:21

arcane is a 10 out of

29:24

10 masterpiece. It is a wonderful

29:26

visual experience and the narrative is

29:29

perfect. I think at my most

29:31

hopeful this could be something like

29:33

the next arcane, at my least

29:35

hopeful. This could be like that

29:37

Halo series that had once. Oh

29:39

man, you really did strike both

29:41

ends of the scale there, didn't

29:44

you? I thought I brought everything

29:46

down. That was rough. Arcane is

29:48

definitely what I think of as

29:50

well, particularly because Arcane is relatively,

29:52

I don't know if I want to say high magic,

29:54

especially because the point of that

29:57

series was that not everybody has access

29:59

to magic. at least not in the

30:01

context of the show itself. And then

30:03

Jason Victor kind of gave it to

30:06

everyone. But it definitely has a high

30:08

fantasy feel to it. You've got like

30:10

little orgs running around the place, whatever

30:13

Hymendinger is, and you've got cat people,

30:15

yodle thank you. And you know, high

30:17

technology. One thing that I was worried

30:19

about when the witch TV series started

30:22

was that it would feel a little

30:24

too. for want of a better term,

30:26

geeky for the, for the, not lord

30:29

of the rings, for the Game of

30:31

Thrones audience to transition across, you know?

30:33

Like the more high magic asks, you

30:35

ask of an audience, the less broad

30:38

appeal I think it's going to have,

30:40

and I think part of Game of

30:42

Thrones success was that it felt like

30:45

the sopranos or whatever, but in fantasy,

30:47

like the real story was the intrigue.

30:49

Yeah. I think the Guild Pact is

30:52

gonna be something that they need to

30:54

focus on heavily. Where I believe Jace

30:56

is the living guilt factor, unless I'm

30:58

getting that term wrong. But it's sort

31:01

of the answer to this massive civil

31:03

war question that they've been dealing with.

31:05

So if they explored why that needed

31:08

to come about, and you know, not

31:10

so much the Star Wars like prequel

31:12

level of political intrigue, but if they

31:14

actually explore why the magic is a

31:17

problem and why these people are fighting,

31:19

I think that would be the best

31:21

approach. And I think that they could

31:24

make it appeal to. You know, people

31:26

who don't know anything about it. The

31:28

three years though, as much as I

31:31

think that is what they're looking for,

31:33

because that's how they're going to measure

31:35

success, I don't want them to do

31:37

that. I want them to do that.

31:40

I want them to appeal to me.

31:42

I want them to appeal to other

31:44

MTV fans, you know. And that's the

31:47

tricky, the tricky thing about it is

31:49

that, you know, I think about like

31:51

the Assassin's Cream movie. Right? If we're

31:53

talking about depressing adaptations like, hey look,

31:56

the Assassin's Cream movie, where they're just

31:58

like, hmm, I think not enough people

32:00

who played the game are going to

32:03

understand this. So let's just change the

32:05

entire story. Like why? do this thing

32:07

where they change it so much to

32:10

appeal to new people that they lose

32:12

the original people. Hadn't fallen in chat

32:14

brought up a good idea. They said

32:16

that when the original Pokemon movie came

32:19

out, they offered exclusive like promo Pokemon

32:21

cards. Right, yeah. The cinema. And they're

32:23

bringing up a good point. If you

32:26

offer an exclusive promo card for MTG,

32:28

you're gonna get the geeks into the

32:30

cinema. They're gonna go. And I think

32:33

that kind of a thing, I'm so

32:35

torn on it because I, you know,

32:37

I want them to not completely crash

32:39

and burn, but I also want them

32:42

to make it for the fans. I

32:44

got an electa buzz. I'll always remember

32:46

that. But anyway, it's interesting that you

32:49

bring up our game before as well,

32:51

Logan, because there is a Netflix animated

32:53

series for Magic the Gathering. that's been

32:55

in the works for a while apparently

32:58

it kind of got canned and then

33:00

I think the most recent news is

33:02

that it's back up and running again

33:05

but whether it will be part of

33:07

this cinematic universe whether it's being retooled

33:09

to be part of this cinematic universe

33:12

is not known currently so I think

33:14

it would be I think that's where

33:16

they would probably find actually I don't

33:18

know I was about to say I

33:21

feel like an arcane like series on

33:23

Netflix is where they would find the

33:25

most The greatest possibility of success as

33:28

opposed to a D&D style, honor among

33:30

thieves, style movie, right? They could go

33:32

that. Because then the stakes are lower.

33:34

But doesn't say the initial project will

33:37

be a feature film? Yes, it does.

33:39

Yeah. Apparently, this is very deeply important.

33:41

Niv Mizzit took over is the Living

33:44

Guild Pact. That's true. Yeah, I got

33:46

my war wrong. And I loved him

33:48

Mizzit. So that's all I have to

33:51

say on that. Omnition. I have one

33:53

more question on this, and I know

33:55

it's not necessarily an either or prospect,

33:57

but I am curious about this. is

34:00

whether pushing for a Magic the

34:02

Gathering cinematic universe has become the

34:04

focus in the aftermath of the

34:06

D&D movie not doing as well

34:08

as it could have and them

34:11

not developing a cinematic universe off

34:13

of the back of honor among

34:15

thieves. Like I said, I know

34:17

it's not an either or prospect,

34:19

they could theoretically do both, although

34:21

I assume in some capacity, there

34:24

could be resource limits on money,

34:26

creative people, our time, and so

34:28

are they kind of now pivoting

34:30

and going, all right, the D&D

34:32

movie wasn't what we wanted it

34:34

to be, let's try springboard with

34:36

a Magic the Gathering movie instead

34:38

and see if that can create

34:40

the sympathetic angle. Yeah, yeah,

34:42

I lied. I have another question. Do

34:45

we think, because I don't know enough

34:47

about Magic the Gathering, is there

34:49

scope to backdoor a D&D

34:51

cinematic universe from this one?

34:53

Because we know that some

34:55

Magic the Gathering worlds are

34:57

used for D&D, and I believe

35:00

there are card sets that are based

35:02

on originally D&D settings. So could

35:04

we see like, you know, the third

35:06

Magic the Gathering movie, they fall

35:08

into the forgotten realms or some

35:11

other... realm like that and be

35:13

like, oh, what are you guys

35:15

doing here? And then it's suddenly

35:17

it's a connected D&D, the Hasbro

35:19

Cinematic universe, the Hasbro of this.

35:21

So we have the Mr. Potato Head series

35:23

coming out. I'm down for that. I'd watch

35:25

it. I'd watch it. What was it the

35:27

other day? There was something we

35:29

put on the other day. Where

35:32

Hasbro had their own little, you

35:34

know, the Marvel comic book, flip,

35:36

flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, flip,

35:39

flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, flip.

35:41

And it was the transformers movie.

35:44

Transformers one, or whatever it was

35:46

called. They had a little, and

35:48

it was like, pepper, pig. It

35:51

was like, it was so limited

35:53

in what they could pull from,

35:56

but it was, it was, it

35:58

was done dramatic. correctly

36:00

that has both sold E1 right

36:02

they sold there okay this deal

36:04

is being struck with legendary entertainment

36:07

my old enemy yeah I kind

36:09

of looked at their their previous

36:11

features but I'm not sure how

36:13

much like obviously the the production

36:15

studio has a lot of influence

36:17

on the films but like the

36:19

quality of the particularly nerd and

36:21

IP films they've made swing from

36:23

June to Warcraft. So, you know,

36:26

it's kind of hard to know

36:28

whether that's a mark of, well,

36:30

this is promising, or whether it's

36:32

like, oh, these guys really, or

36:34

whether it matters at all. Speaking

36:36

of things releasing, that will be

36:38

in the distant future, but you

36:40

know what's not, dagger art. Just

36:42

this morning had its release date

36:45

announced for May. 20th, which will

36:47

be releasing first in local game

36:49

stores before a wider release, i.e.

36:51

book stores and anywhere tabletop RPGs

36:53

can be purchased, on June 3rd.

36:55

What is releasing specifically, I hear

36:57

you ask. Well, it's a core

36:59

set, which includes booking cards, so

37:01

they are packaging the card, you

37:04

know, we talked about how their

37:06

character sheets are kind of. You

37:08

know have blank spaces on them

37:10

where you lay cards down to

37:12

construct your character And those features

37:14

are written on those cards. I

37:16

believe that's the way the game

37:18

last worked when I last checked

37:20

in anyway those cards will be

37:23

packaged with the physical book So

37:25

you will get both with any

37:27

purchase of dagger heart There is

37:29

also a limited edition version which

37:31

includes a GM screen dice tokens

37:33

the cards etc etc etc etc

37:35

etc What I'm not clear about,

37:37

because you can also pre-order this

37:39

and get purchase it directly from

37:42

Darrington Press if you want to,

37:44

the release date is the same,

37:46

May 20th, if you do that,

37:48

I'm not sure if the limited

37:50

edition is coming to retail stores

37:52

though or not. I imagine it

37:54

probably would be in more limited

37:56

quantity, but I don't know. That

37:58

wasn't clear. Yay! There you

38:01

go James, I hope that was

38:03

enough of a glazing. Speaking of

38:05

quick fire news, more news is

38:07

developing on the diamond debt. Folks

38:10

remember from a couple of weeks

38:12

ago, Diamond is a large comic

38:14

book distributor that also through its

38:16

subsidiaries distributed tabletop game products. to

38:18

retail stores, predominantly game stores, but

38:21

also other places as well. Diamond

38:23

went into Bankruptcy, filing Chapter 11.

38:25

Now, the Pokemon Company, International, has

38:27

filed reclamation claims for inventory they

38:29

delivered to Diamond within 45 days

38:32

of the Chapter 11 filing. Let

38:34

me rephrase. Basically, the Pokemon company

38:36

is... Give us back our Pokemon

38:38

cards that we gave to you

38:41

to give to other game stores,

38:43

because they don't want to lose

38:45

the product. How this is relevant

38:47

to you, dear viewer, dear listener,

38:49

is that it? You know, this

38:52

is just a sign that there

38:54

may be products that were distributed

38:56

by Diamond that may start to

38:58

see their availability within game stores

39:00

become limited as... Manufacturers and publishers

39:03

try to get back some of

39:05

their stocks so they don't lose

39:07

that revenue or that the the

39:09

value of those products because diamond

39:11

owes the money for those products.

39:14

Oh no. So they can't get

39:16

the money back so they're trying

39:18

to get the products back. Does

39:20

that make sense? Is that clear?

39:22

Yep. So essentially prices are just

39:25

going to go up I think.

39:27

Yeah, potentially. Yeah, this is this

39:29

is kind of going to suck,

39:31

I think, particularly for for Mum

39:33

and Pop game stores that I

39:36

don't think there's a way for

39:38

the Pokemon company or any publisher

39:40

to claim stock back directly from

39:42

a game shop. So once it's

39:44

in the game shop, that's kind

39:47

of where it is to be

39:49

sold. But yeah, until I suppose

39:51

a distributor for these products can

39:53

be found as well. It might

39:56

result in a slowdown. So is

39:58

that the issue? I assume that

40:00

was just like stuff that they

40:02

had in warehouses that was meant

40:04

to be distributed. They're trying to

40:07

collect stuff that has been distributed?

40:09

No, no, the former, they're only

40:11

trying to collect stuff that has

40:13

not been distributed. So within 45

40:15

days, but... In all likelihood a

40:18

lot of that stock has already

40:20

been sold on two game stores.

40:22

So whether or not the Pokemon

40:24

company are going to get anything

40:26

back is unclear. Fright Rags Incorporated,

40:29

another company has also filed for

40:31

reclamation of Terminator trading cards. So

40:33

there's two companies so far. Yeah,

40:35

that whole thing is starting to

40:37

look like a house burning down

40:40

slowly. Good luck to those affected.

40:42

Speaking of being affected by things.

40:44

When you're playing D&D 5th edition,

40:46

sometimes you become affected by a

40:48

spell. But what does that spell

40:51

do? Well, the GM's going to

40:53

have to look it up in

40:55

the player's guide because the new

40:57

monster manual... Now I hadn't looked

41:00

closely at this, so Sean, you

41:02

correct me, because apparently this email

41:04

has said that this, because apparently

41:06

this email has said that this

41:08

question got asked to mastering. So

41:11

I'm kind of curious for your

41:13

take on this. Misty Step, we

41:15

will list a bonus action that

41:17

describes the effect of Misty Step

41:19

instead. And that will make it

41:22

easier for GM's to run the

41:24

monster because they won't have to

41:26

flick to the... to the player's

41:28

guide or use D&D beyond or

41:30

whatever to find the effect of

41:33

that spell. And with the new

41:35

monster manual, it looks like they've

41:37

kind of think entirely gone back

41:39

the other way, or though maybe

41:41

three-fourths of the way back the

41:44

other way, because some abilities read

41:46

like they were probably spells once

41:48

upon a time or might have

41:50

been put in as a spell

41:52

once upon a time. Instead of

41:55

the can trip, fire bolt, a

41:57

character might have fire hurl or

41:59

something instead. and have that described

42:01

as an attack action. But

42:03

there are definitely lists of

42:06

spells within staff blocks

42:08

as well. Sean, good change, bad

42:10

change, neither change. It depends on

42:12

you. It depends on you as

42:14

the game master, depends on

42:17

you as the designer. You have

42:19

more space if you can just

42:21

put Misty Step instead of this

42:23

is what Misty Step does,

42:25

as you just pointed out

42:27

very succinctly. you have to start

42:30

flipping and going through things and

42:32

that takes time. I have seen

42:34

in 2025 is the games are

42:37

going much slower because of weapon

42:39

mastery and because of many

42:41

more bonus actions and because

42:44

of more hit points and

42:46

so on. So if you're going to

42:48

slow the game down already you

42:50

might as well double down

42:53

and just put the spell

42:55

in rather than the description.

42:57

I as the game master want the description

42:59

of anything I might use again and

43:01

again and again. If you're going to

43:03

have the wizard casting a fire bolty

43:05

type spell, then I want it spelled

43:07

out there. What's the distance? I don't

43:09

want to have to look it up

43:11

because I'm going to use it again

43:13

and again and again and knowing me,

43:15

I'm not too bright. I will close

43:17

the book. Go through the round and then

43:19

have to open the book again. So that's

43:21

the sort of thing that I would love

43:23

to see. strange spells that you

43:26

might not use, but it's good to

43:28

know that they're there. Oh, you can

43:30

cast legend lore. I don't need to

43:32

know what legend lore says, but if

43:34

it just comes up that this

43:36

creature needs to cast it, I'm

43:38

probably in a role-playing scene, so I'm

43:40

not so worried about things going so quickly,

43:42

and I can just go look up legend

43:44

lore and be done. But it's a matter

43:47

of space, it's a matter of time, it's

43:49

a matter of all of these things, there

43:51

is no one right answer. But you are

43:54

certainly going to get opinions about

43:56

it from those who feel strongly.

43:58

Dale Logan, do you feel strongly

44:00

either? direction about this? Not strongly. It

44:02

makes me think of, you know, I

44:04

think we talked about this ages ago,

44:06

like when they were still releasing sort

44:08

of unearth Darkana stuff that was looking

44:11

towards the 2024 release. There is an

44:13

increase in cross-referency design, which I think

44:15

is indicative that we're just trending towards

44:17

digital play. I think it's indicative that

44:19

D&D Beyond has a stronger sort of

44:21

place in their mind as they're designing

44:24

and so you don't have to worry

44:26

about those things when you're on D&D

44:28

Beyond because you click on the little

44:30

the little link that is the title

44:32

of the spell and then hover over

44:34

it it pops up and so it

44:37

it just kind of is another sort

44:39

of symptom of that which I don't

44:41

think is inherently positive or negative I

44:43

think it just is and it also

44:45

does make me think of I don't

44:47

know, it casts my mind all the

44:50

way back to my earliest TTRPG days

44:52

when I was fully in Pathfinder where

44:54

monsters have spell-like abilities rather than using

44:56

spells. It was a separated out system

44:58

so that you could do something that

45:00

is basically the same as a spell,

45:03

but you just, you can shorten it,

45:05

you can try, like it doesn't have

45:07

to match the text, so you don't

45:09

have to like put the whole spell

45:11

text block in there, and you can

45:13

tweak it as you need to make

45:16

it. bit the space you have or

45:18

how complex you want it to be

45:20

in that combat scenario. I don't think

45:22

either one of these designs is inherently

45:24

better or worse than the other. They're

45:26

just, they're all choices. They're just choices.

45:29

They're just choices. They're just choices. And

45:31

those choices indicate something about the values

45:33

of the company behind them. The designers

45:35

who are working. Yeah. But I don't

45:37

think that that in itself is good

45:39

or bad. I completely agree with Sean

45:42

and to that kind of that same

45:44

extent Dale Dale where it is just

45:46

a design choice. And if I personally

45:48

were to have any sort of like

45:50

if I wanted a book in my

45:52

hands, how would I want it to

45:55

be designed. I think I would prefer

45:57

this 700 page tome that has these

45:59

monsters that don't just have the spells

46:01

as like, you know, a reference to

46:03

the same way that a player would

46:05

use them. I would want them customized.

46:08

I want them customized. I want that

46:10

monster to have cool abilities that feel

46:12

specific to it. That don't count as

46:14

this huge blanket statement. So when you

46:16

have all these sort of outsourcing like

46:18

Dale was saying where you have to

46:21

cross-reference these five books, but... I would

46:23

prefer to just look at the one

46:25

monster and see everything that it can

46:27

do in cool ways that it's described.

46:29

And that's it. In the new book,

46:31

from what I can remember, and again,

46:34

I don't have, I'd love to have

46:36

the mage stack block or the arch

46:38

mage stack block up in front of

46:40

me to know exactly how they tackle

46:42

it with that one specifically because you

46:44

expect that to have like a list

46:47

of... spells that it can cast right

46:49

because it's major. But I believe it

46:51

is kind of a half step that

46:53

snuck back towards just putting the spell

46:55

in where as I said most creatures

46:57

will have some or a handful of

46:59

unique abilities that they can do that

47:02

is going to be like their typical

47:04

repeated attack that they make each turn

47:06

with a list of like five or

47:08

six spells. Am I not correct, Sean?

47:10

You asked for it. You got it.

47:12

They have multi attack where they can

47:15

do four arcane bursts. is only touch

47:17

or 150 foot range for stabbage spell,

47:19

then spell casting. They have one, two,

47:21

three, four, five, six, seven, nine, ten,

47:23

11, 12, 12, 13, 15, 16 different

47:25

spells. They can cast, many of them

47:28

at will, fly and lightly, twice, twice,

47:30

twice, per day. Okay. They seem to

47:32

have gotten rid of the spell slot,

47:34

thing that 2014 spellcast has had, where

47:36

it would have like, how many spell

47:38

slots of different levels you've got now,

47:41

it's the once per day each. twice

47:43

per day each kind of solution. My

47:45

one, I wouldn't call it a defense

47:47

of putting the spells in like this,

47:49

but the one thing I will say

47:51

is, and maybe the answer is, remove

47:54

the 14 spells and just have four,

47:56

you know, leftover or whatever, is not

47:58

having really chunky. monster stack blocks because

48:00

that's one thing that I is a

48:02

bug bear of mine is when I

48:04

see a monster stack block and it

48:07

takes up like half the page or

48:09

more I'm like next monster yeah yeah

48:11

that couldn't be bothered especially because a

48:13

lot of that text can be

48:15

necessary but nevertheless busy text of

48:17

like this monster has this effect

48:19

This effect ends when this happens,

48:21

but if this happens and this

48:23

effect continues, you know, it's a

48:25

challenge of just how it gets

48:27

worded at that point. I do think

48:30

having like, not just this ability per day,

48:32

but having... a repertoire of like five different

48:34

spells and they can cast two of them

48:36

once a day is fun in the same

48:38

sense that that's kind of how divine magic

48:41

works or I think wizards where you prepare

48:43

the specific types of things that you think

48:45

you're going to do that day so it

48:47

gives the dungeon master a chance to be

48:50

like okay well what do I want this

48:52

monster to be in this circumstance

48:54

where you can kind of remove the spells

48:57

of your own volition? I think my

48:59

brain just betrayed a version of myself

49:01

from the past. Because I can remember,

49:04

I can remember complaining in the early

49:06

phases of the, you know, like the

49:08

Bard rewrite, the thing that they would

49:10

do where they were like, you have

49:13

this spell, this spell, this spell, and

49:15

this spell, or you can choose a

49:17

different spell of X level or whatever.

49:19

Whatever they were doing, that thing. And

49:21

that really bugged me. That really bugged

49:24

me. But just now, I was like,

49:26

yeah, Bed's right. They should. They should

49:28

just give you like four spells that

49:30

they have. Which is exactly, which is

49:33

exactly that. But there you go. We

49:35

all grow and change. Maybe I like

49:37

it for monsters, but not for PCs.

49:39

Hmm? Huh? I mean, that's fair. That's

49:42

a, that's a perfectly fine stance

49:44

to have. This question emailed by

49:46

Marty, by the way, I don't

49:48

know if I mentioned that at

49:51

the top, emailing podcast at ghostfire

49:53

gaming.com, which you can email if you

49:55

want to ask a question. Just as

49:57

Ashley asked and Ashley asking

49:59

about. recapping a campaign, how

50:01

to recap an adventure once it's

50:04

over, usually a multi-session campaign, how

50:06

do you give it a proper

50:08

ending, make it feel like it

50:10

was real, make it feel like

50:12

it happened, make it feel like

50:15

it mattered, make it feel like

50:17

it mattered, how do you recap

50:19

a campaign? Like specifically at the

50:21

end of it? They'd been playing

50:23

for about 10 years, but never

50:26

really finished a campaign, I should

50:28

say. and ended the campaign. And

50:30

now wondering to do a write-up

50:32

that kind of recaps the whole

50:34

of it, or what other ways

50:36

are there of kind of a

50:39

recapping the campaign. Different things you

50:41

can try. I ran the Seville

50:43

Dancing Sun campaign. It took months

50:45

and months and months. And I

50:47

read the written conclusion and I

50:50

sort of took a couple minutes

50:52

to wax poetic on what the

50:54

characters see when they do this.

50:56

I'm not going to spoil it.

50:58

My players were literally, okay, what

51:01

are we doing next? For those

51:03

players, you don't need to do

51:05

too much. Are your players really,

51:07

really invested in their characters? Let

51:09

them, if they know especially that

51:12

this is the end of the

51:14

campaign, tell them. I did the

51:16

campaign, I want to see a

51:18

little description of what your character

51:20

is doing a year from that.

51:23

How is their life changed from

51:25

where they were to where they

51:27

are? And let the player do

51:29

it because it's the player's characters.

51:31

If there are important NPCs, then

51:34

you as the game master, you

51:36

do that. A year from now,

51:38

happy, the the hostler is adding

51:40

in addition to their hotel because

51:42

You save the town and now

51:45

they get to do this and

51:47

their children are growing up and

51:49

or big enemy you just defeated.

51:51

Yeah, is struggling to escape from

51:53

hell. But as they struggle, they

51:55

see just a crack of light.

51:58

Oh, what does that mean? But

52:00

you can do anything like that,

52:02

but be in touch with your players,

52:04

be in touch with your own

52:06

feelings about it, and do what

52:09

makes you feel like it's a

52:11

great ending to this campaign. A

52:13

lot of folks in chat saying that

52:15

it is something that feels like a

52:18

lot of it should be player-led, and

52:20

I agree with that, but I also

52:22

see how. guidance from the DM is

52:24

helpful in that kind of respect. I'm

52:26

trying to think of things that really

52:28

make me feel like fulfilled at the

52:31

end of a campaign. And I've also

52:33

thought about videos. So like I know

52:35

at the end of dusk. Colville did

52:37

like a narrative little write-up and it

52:39

only focused on one of the characters

52:41

but it felt like oh yes this

52:43

is it it's a conclusion it comes

52:45

it all comes together and it feels

52:47

complete I love the end of the

52:49

Dragon Age games when you get your

52:51

little here's what each companion is doing

52:53

at the end and for me I think

52:55

I care more about the dynamics between

52:57

party members than anything else

52:59

so even though I do I do generally

53:02

love the like I don't know, you know,

53:04

the end credit scene, oh, so it's so

53:06

became a lawyer and this person, you know,

53:08

you're sort of, yeah, you stand by me,

53:10

where are they now, 80s movies? But I

53:12

also love the idea of just giving a

53:14

heads up and saying, hey, we're coming up

53:17

to the final session, I would love

53:19

to see you all have little, little scenes,

53:21

and they actually basically do this

53:23

with critical role at the end

53:25

of campaigns where they've all got

53:28

little things that they're like resolution

53:30

about. our characters relationships. So let's

53:32

like figure out what that little

53:34

vignette is going to look like

53:37

and what about you and I

53:39

and what about the group as a

53:41

whole and what about blah blah blah.

53:43

But yeah, I'm just always a big

53:45

believer in ahead of something that feels

53:48

like role play heavy. Just flagging

53:50

it to my players and going,

53:52

hey, I'd love to see a

53:54

little scene about this, leaving it

53:57

in your hands. Boo-bo-boo-bo-boo-boo. Apparently that's

53:59

the camp. Yeah, I actually think that City

54:01

of Mist has a really good idea.

54:03

And then actually as the very end

54:05

of the campaign, just to make sure

54:08

everyone knows, what I do is they're

54:10

all chatting and I get up and

54:12

I put my hat on and I

54:14

stand in the doorway and then I

54:16

look back and I go with a

54:18

twinkle in my eye and then I

54:20

leave. As the closing time place. Just

54:22

like that. Yeah, I actually think that

54:24

City of Mist has a really good

54:26

idea for... It does this at the

54:29

end of sessions, but I think it's

54:31

also really good at the end of

54:33

the campaign. I did like the general

54:35

note of making sure that narratives are

54:37

wrapped up and that people get conclusions

54:39

for just their individual inquiries. But once

54:41

you're done, I think it's really good

54:43

to go around the table and like

54:45

you just finished watching a movie or

54:48

a series, like. you know you have

54:50

a sit down at dinner and you

54:52

talk about all your favorite parts and

54:54

you go around the table and you

54:56

let each player and the DM be

54:58

like oh i love this i love

55:00

when that character or that other player

55:02

did this thing and you just it's

55:04

it's a nice little like post popcorn

55:07

chat and i think that's that's the

55:09

best way to have a feel good

55:11

ending yes and it's kind of like

55:13

you know a lot of people do

55:15

stars and wishes at the end of

55:17

campaign at the end of sessions where

55:19

they just sort of sit down they

55:21

go This was my favorite thing you

55:23

did. This was my favorite thing you

55:25

did for the session. Just a big

55:28

stars thing. Just go, remember when that

55:30

happened? That was so cool. Oh, I

55:32

always wondered about this. What was the

55:34

deal when you did blah, blah, blah?

55:36

I love those comments. You're exactly right.

55:38

Just have a conversation. That's so correct.

55:40

and we've had a wedding, we finished

55:42

a campaign with a wedding once, where

55:44

two characters, two PCs got married, they

55:47

were married in real life as players,

55:49

and then they got married again in

55:51

the game, it was great, it was

55:53

beautiful. But it felt like a very

55:55

nice kind of like narrative ending where

55:57

it wasn't just like, and the villain

55:59

was defeated the end, but it was

56:01

like... these lives continued on, they mattered,

56:03

you know, in some way. Somebody in

56:05

chat. I really like those endings where

56:08

the villain dies and then curtains closed.

56:10

And then that's just it, that's the

56:12

end, yeah. The Macbeth ending almost, of

56:14

like, well, you're king now. I also

56:16

love the like, Godzilla ending, but it's

56:18

like, all was well, or was it,

56:20

due to the egg starts cracking. Yeah.

56:22

Somebody had a really good suggestion in

56:24

chat, and I think this is very

56:27

true of like keeping a journal. during

56:29

the campaign. There's a player that I,

56:31

in my home game, who keeps quite

56:33

a detailed journal with like pictures and

56:35

stuff that they draw in it as

56:37

well and like take photos from the

56:39

battlefield and sometimes stick those in the

56:41

journal. You can't make a player do

56:43

that. That's kind of something that they,

56:45

if you're the GM, that's something they

56:48

instinctually need to do. I keep a

56:50

journal as a GM mainly so I

56:52

remember plot threads. But every now and

56:54

again I'll go back and read that

56:56

journal and look back on it. And

56:58

another player, my wife actually, she does

57:00

drawings of like funny things that happen

57:02

during sessions that usually are like things

57:04

that people said outside of the game

57:07

but kind of put a funny image

57:09

in everybody's head and we look back

57:11

on those years later and are like,

57:13

what was that joke? I don't get

57:15

that all this time later. I think

57:17

there's a... You know, D&D games, when

57:19

they're really cooking, when a campaign's cooking

57:21

and everybody's like into it and their

57:23

characters feel so important and everybody's like,

57:26

you know, on the same level and

57:28

it feels like this is an our

57:30

D&D campaign, this is the D&D campaign,

57:32

you know, like I think everybody's had

57:34

that feeling at least once of this

57:36

is the important campaign that will always

57:38

be important. And then when it's over,

57:40

when it finishes, when it finishes, there's

57:42

an instinct to make it last. somehow

57:44

and I think of the campaigns that

57:47

I've had that have really been like

57:49

that that are now years in the

57:51

rear view mirror and we look back

57:53

on them and occasionally remember yeah remember

57:55

that session when that happened or remember

57:57

when this got said or whatever crazy

57:59

event And those are fun memories to look

58:01

back on that we have no physical

58:04

final token of to be able to

58:06

look back on except for maybe the

58:08

painted minis. But I don't know why

58:10

this quote comes from, but it's

58:12

always stuck with me. It's probably

58:15

some sappy movie, which is a

58:17

thing isn't beautiful because it lasts.

58:19

And I'm kind of trying to

58:21

remember that about some of those older

58:23

campaigns that I've played. That film was

58:26

age of Ultron. Thank you so much.

58:28

Yeah, I think it's a great line.

58:30

Yes, I remember that scene very

58:32

distinctly now. That's right, yeah.

58:34

Yeah, right before he vaporizes the

58:37

last old song. Yeah, it's like

58:39

the only scene in the movie that I

58:41

really like, but it's a good scene. It's

58:43

a good scene. It's a good one. So

58:45

yeah, cherishing those campaigns as they

58:47

happen, but then letting them go,

58:50

not feeling like you have to

58:52

cling to cling to it like it's

58:54

a... Oh wait, oh Darien in chat

58:56

just pitched campaign time capsules. That's fun.

58:58

That's like putting in stuff near the

59:00

beginning and opening them up at the

59:03

end, that'd be fun. Also people have

59:05

brought up means. And I do love

59:07

this thing of like not forcing the

59:09

epilogue to be about it staying in

59:11

game in universe. Yeah, like just looking

59:14

back at the memes you made,

59:16

I audio record a lot of

59:18

sessions I run in order to

59:20

remind myself of what happened, but

59:22

also to watch like a crazy

59:24

like football person who's like, I

59:26

gotta watch my plays and see

59:28

where I could improve. But you

59:30

know, having those audio recordings and

59:32

just keeping little funny snippets that

59:34

happen and. saving them in an

59:36

edit file. Like I don't know,

59:38

there's all sorts of things that

59:40

can be external to the characters

59:42

experience that make it feel like

59:44

a complete whole experience outside of

59:46

the game. I'm just picturing Dale.

59:48

It's like a football American football analyst

59:51

who's like watching the minis on the

59:53

board. Oh, look at that move there.

59:55

Oh, yes. Oh, you notice how went

59:57

to the right flag there and that

59:59

cat? Fireball that was a great

1:00:02

move by it. It's my Super

1:00:04

Bowl. Super Bowl just happened right?

1:00:06

Did Super Bowl just happen? Yeah,

1:00:08

somewhat. Yeah, that sounds like a

1:00:10

dimension 20 conceit for a season

1:00:12

of dimension 20 where they're all

1:00:14

players and the game master is

1:00:16

like the commentator or something. But

1:00:18

that being said, if you enjoy

1:00:20

this episode, the law cast you

1:00:23

should like it before you disappear

1:00:25

because this is the end. More

1:00:30

balloons. If you enjoyed this episode,

1:00:32

then you should check out Roonsmith's

1:00:34

YouTube channel, who guessed at Roonsmith,

1:00:37

where, Logan, where can people find

1:00:39

you if they're looking for you?

1:00:41

Just go to YouTube and type

1:00:44

in Roonsmith. I'm so freaking popular

1:00:46

that I'll pop up. You can

1:00:48

also find my catalog of work

1:00:50

on the Ghost Fire Gaming website,

1:00:53

Ghost Fire Gaming.com, if I'm not

1:00:55

mistaken, under anything pertaining to Elder

1:00:57

Mansey. And then, you know, Kickstarter,

1:01:00

looking forward to companion quest. That's

1:01:02

about it. Yes, launching, going back

1:01:04

to the date, March 4th for

1:01:07

companion quest, go check it out,

1:01:09

links down in the doodily do.

1:01:11

And we will catch you next

1:01:14

week. You can be here live

1:01:16

if you want to, 6 p.m.

1:01:18

Eastern Standard Time, 3 p.m. Pacific

1:01:20

on a Monday, or it is

1:01:23

10 a. on a Tuesday Australian

1:01:25

Eastern time. Good luck to everybody

1:01:27

else, like stars, subscribe, all the

1:01:30

things. I've been Bamburn here with

1:01:32

Dale Kingsmill, Logan Reese, Sean Merwin,

1:01:34

and we will be back next

1:01:37

week with another episode of the

1:01:39

Eldridge Lawcast. Nah, I couldn't get

1:01:41

another effect on screening time, so

1:01:43

I like this. A limp goodbye.

1:01:46

Wiggily, wiggily, woo. That's our new,

1:01:48

wiggly, wiggly, woe. The new... catchphrase

1:01:50

of the old rich looker. Bubba

1:01:53

to Bubba to Bubba to Will

1:01:55

never die then. Wigglety, wiggle, woe.

1:01:57

I don't know, wigglety woo. my

1:02:00

overtake. So I've been for life.

1:02:02

Yeah. The Wiggles are Australian. I

1:02:04

was watching this, um, this Korean

1:02:07

reality show the other day, which

1:02:09

has just the most bizarre but

1:02:11

banging soundtrack possible. Like it's, it's

1:02:13

80% Disney songs that are like,

1:02:15

how do you have the rights

1:02:17

to this? But then in the

1:02:19

middle of it, they'll have like

1:02:21

really cool like pop rock songs.

1:02:23

And then they had the wiggles.