0:00

This week on the Eldridge Lawcast.

0:02

I got so excited that I

0:04

was so sad. Companion Quest has

0:06

launched on Kickstarter. James, you're so

0:08

elfin at all times. Wizards of

0:10

the Coast have shown us their new starter

0:13

set. A little bit of Chris Cox news

0:15

on this podcast. Fristration about

0:17

terrorists. It's exciting about Greyhawk. What's

0:20

a good starting point? What separates

0:22

it from other settings? In the

0:24

long run, nothing. All that and

0:26

more, right now. And

0:31

hello everybody and welcome

0:33

to this week's episode of

0:35

the Eldridge Lawcast, the number

0:37

one tabletop RPG podcast in all

0:39

the realms. And this week, might

0:41

I say, the healthiest. I am joined

0:44

by name is Benburn. I am joined

0:46

as always, I am joined, my

0:48

name is Benburn. I am joined as

0:50

always by Dale Kingsmill, James

0:52

Hake, Sean Merwin. And if you happen

0:55

to be well at the moment, I

0:57

hope you get better soon. I hope

0:59

you feel better soon. Dale, what do

1:01

you think the worst thing about being

1:03

unwell is? For me, it's anything that

1:06

keeps you from sleeping. It's the blocked

1:08

nose, it's the difficulty swallowing, but

1:10

all just like, you can be

1:12

going about your day fine the

1:14

minute that you lie down horizontal.

1:16

It's like, ha ha! I almost feel the

1:18

opposite in terms of like... I

1:20

feel like having a stuffy nose

1:22

lying horizontal can be one of

1:24

the only things that helps. But

1:27

maybe I'm just crazy. Maybe I

1:29

was just desperate. I deal with

1:31

blocked sinuses all the time. I

1:33

recently went to an ear nose

1:35

and throat doctor and learned that

1:37

in addition to probably being allergic

1:39

to dust and grass and pet

1:41

dander, I also have a slightly

1:43

deviated septum, which makes my nose

1:45

just close up at all times

1:47

unless I'm lightly medicated for it.

1:49

getting a cold guarantees that I

1:51

will be mouth breathing for the

1:53

next week. So yeah, I mean,

1:55

I've got nothing new to add.

1:57

It sucks hard. Yeah, now I

1:59

just feel insensitive. Sean Merwin, what

2:01

about yourself? The worst for me is

2:04

I'm always going 100 miles an hour.

2:06

When I'm sick I don't stop and

2:08

I don't realize that I can't go

2:11

100 miles an hour so I'll be

2:13

sitting at my desk working and all

2:15

of a sudden I'll realize I'm like

2:17

lying on the floor and I'm like

2:20

wait why am I lying on the

2:22

floor? Oh because I'm sick and I

2:24

just fell asleep. They've got to take

2:27

care yourself folks, got to take care

2:29

of yourself. And now that we've talked

2:31

about wellness briefly. The wellness of D&D

2:33

might be about to improve because Wizards

2:36

of the Coast have shown us their

2:38

new starter set, which is coming in

2:40

September of this year. We touched on

2:43

this, but we've seen a lot more

2:45

of this starter set now, and it

2:47

is extremely tactile. We got character sheets

2:49

that are cards. We got cards for

2:52

equipment. We got tokens. We got fully

2:54

painted maps. I don't know if they

2:56

were painted, but they're colorful. We've got...

2:59

The stat block cards, we've got everything

3:01

you could need to run a game

3:03

of D&D, seems to be in this

3:06

box. What do we think? Does this

3:08

seem like a good start? When Ghost

3:10

Fire brought me into the company at

3:12

the very beginning to do fables, I

3:15

pitched something like this with a hyper-tactile,

3:17

manipulable, physical aspect, and just reality production

3:19

made it impossible to do something that

3:22

detailed for something that huge. But a

3:24

starter set I think is the perfect

3:26

way to go about it. You know,

3:28

we've been crawling in that direction ever

3:31

since the essentials kid a couple of

3:33

years ago, probably more than a couple

3:35

of years ago now. It's a pre-covid

3:38

product, wasn't it? No, I think this

3:40

is the natural evolution, the final form

3:42

of the D&D starter kid, and I

3:44

couldn't be happier. I like everything that

3:47

I'm seeing. We haven't seen everything yet,

3:49

so I just still have a lot

3:51

of questions, and it could be less.

3:54

helpful than it could depending on the

3:56

game master side of things and what

3:58

sorts of tools and what sorts of

4:00

teaching it does for new game masters.

4:03

One thing that I think they've done

4:05

is solve the conundrum of doing you

4:07

start with building your character or do

4:10

you start with a pre-generated character. That's

4:12

been the age-old discussion with folks in

4:14

my circles about the best way to

4:17

teach. And this splits the difference. This

4:19

doesn't force you to sit with the

4:21

player's handbook and create a character from

4:23

scratch on a not very well-designed. character

4:26

sheet, but it also doesn't just hand

4:28

you a really thick information filled pre-gen

4:30

and expect you to suss out all

4:33

the important information right away. This does

4:35

it a little bit at a time

4:37

and I hope that it does so

4:39

in a way that will help the

4:42

game master teach four to six players

4:44

at once as opposed to having to

4:46

stop and tell each individual player. everything

4:49

that their particular character can and can't

4:51

do. I really like the way the

4:53

character sheet set up the slotting of

4:55

like equipment we've seen, certainly species and

4:58

background also slot. But what I'm, and

5:00

I'm assuming a little bit here, but

5:02

going off the promo images we've seen,

5:05

with the long-sword or the great-sword, I

5:07

think it is, slotting onto the fighter

5:09

or paladin, whatever class is, and it

5:11

has the damage dice that this weapon

5:14

does, kind of printed on the card,

5:16

rather than being lost somewhere in the

5:18

character sheet, so you know, I use

5:21

my long-sword, what damage does it do,

5:23

it's on this card, And I suspect

5:25

and hope the way that it works

5:27

explicitly is that you unslot that sword

5:30

and you slot in that mace whenever

5:32

you change weapon or whatever if you

5:34

discover that mace through the course of

5:37

adventure, which is extremely kind of video

5:39

gamey tactile satisfying, but I also think

5:41

is extremely clear for new players when

5:44

they get a new piece of equipment.

5:46

how that piece of equipment changes the

5:48

dice that they're rolling when they're attacking

5:50

with that you piece of equipment. Because

5:53

they're not looking at some nebulous point

5:55

on the character sheet anymore. They're looking

5:57

at the equipment card to figure out.

6:00

what it does. I think they've said

6:02

that there are spell cards as well,

6:04

although I don't think we've seen those

6:06

in any of the images yet. We

6:09

have in the initial offering they had

6:11

some spell cards. Okay, cool. Yeah, last

6:13

week's bed. Good UI is good UI.

6:16

There are some places in which I

6:18

think it's video game adjacency will probably

6:20

let it down. Like, you know, if

6:22

you look at a weapon slide in

6:25

Baldres Gate 3, right, it will automatically

6:27

fill in things like your strength modifier.

6:29

simply won't be able to be done

6:32

on a card and we'll still need

6:34

a little bit of that drawing a

6:36

line between point A and point B.

6:38

But ultimately it is still a tabletop

6:41

game and so a little bit of

6:43

that is part for the course. Dale

6:45

does this make you excited to introduce

6:48

new people to D&D? It does. I

6:50

mean everything that I said last time

6:52

about this still holds true. I think

6:55

that... the more tactile, the sort of

6:57

more excited people are to get into

6:59

it. I mean, that's the dice is

7:01

like the gateway to the game already,

7:04

you know what I mean? People are

7:06

building little towers out of their dice,

7:08

people are rolling them, people are having

7:11

a good time. The more of that

7:13

we get in there, I think the

7:15

easier it is to sort of grab

7:17

new people's attention and hold it. I

7:20

am curious because the three of you

7:22

certainly have more. understanding of the sort

7:24

of production process than I do as

7:27

far away from it as you may

7:29

think you are you you know more

7:31

than me. What kind of impact does

7:33

this sort of thing like the more

7:36

tokens you add cards sheets like the

7:38

more different kind of elements you check

7:40

into this box? What does that do

7:43

to the sort of production line and

7:45

the costs and things like that? It

7:47

makes it certainly more intensive to manufacture

7:49

especially because... certain components and this might

7:52

not be true for this box specifically

7:54

but like a minute heavy board game,

7:56

something like, I was about to say,

7:59

Gloom Haven, but Gloom Haven doesn't have

8:01

that many miniatures in it. It's Stand

8:03

Ease, isn't it? Something like Dissent, or

8:06

Mythic Battles, Ragnarok, like a Kickstarter game,

8:08

has a lot of, the miniatures are

8:10

manufactured in a separate factory to where

8:12

the cardboard and cards are manufactured, games

8:15

workshop. Apparently, I've heard this more recently,

8:17

manufacture a lot of their cards and

8:19

books and stuff separately to their managers,

8:22

which is why certain things go out

8:24

of stock with them faster than others.

8:26

Because this is all paper and cards,

8:28

basically, there's no plastic aside from the

8:31

dice in this box that I've seen,

8:33

it's probably being manufactured obviously on different

8:35

machines, if not in different locations and

8:38

then assembled. What I am curious about...

8:40

kind of along these lines is what

8:42

the retail price of this will be,

8:44

because it looks like it's gearing much

8:47

more towards a board game experience, at

8:49

least in kind of production design, and

8:51

board games of this scale typically cost.

8:54

I'm talking in Australian dollars here because

8:56

it's what I know, but anywhere between

8:58

like 75 to, you know, 150 AUD,

9:00

so what's that, like 50 to 100

9:03

USD, something like that? Whether it's the

9:05

previous data set, like the, you know,

9:07

the essentials kit was like 20 bucks

9:10

or something, if I'm not mistaken. So

9:12

this does feel much more like it's

9:14

going to be a premium product as

9:16

opposed to, you know, just pick it

9:19

up off the shelf and why not?

9:21

talk about the T-word later in this

9:23

show and so I don't want to

9:26

jump the gun on it if we

9:28

want to wait a little longer but

9:30

take my bait. Take my bait James!

9:33

Well we were planning on talking about

9:35

tariffs and a lot of paper products

9:37

are manufactured overseas from China and imported

9:39

but I'm curious to see if that

9:42

will even affect Wizards of the Coast

9:44

you know a lot of small publishers

9:46

are battening down the hatches in preparation

9:49

for this but if you look at

9:51

the inside cover of your D&D books,

9:53

you'll see that they're printed in America.

9:55

They're printed in the USA, and they

9:58

have been for several years. Wizards Wizards

10:00

moved all their paper manufacturing over here.

10:02

Does this box have minis in it?

10:05

Because if it does, then those will

10:07

probably be of Chinese manufacture, but if

10:09

it's all paper products, I think there's

10:11

a very high likelihood. of the fact

10:14

that its retail price will be unaffected

10:16

by recent politics. I don't think there's

10:18

any miniatures in this box. None that

10:21

we've seen, and I'm going to guess

10:23

there won't be, because we've seen tokens,

10:25

like flat tokens for monsters and standees,

10:27

cardboard standees for characters. But I didn't

10:30

know that that kind of answers a

10:32

question from later as well. So you

10:34

have to listen to the rest of

10:37

this podcast to get your answers. Which

10:39

is, you know, Wizards of the Coast

10:41

concern over... importing things internationally. I didn't

10:44

know that they manufactured their books in

10:46

the US. So that's interesting. Well, here's

10:48

the thing. Just because their manufacture prices

10:50

will not increase does not mean that

10:53

their retail prices will stay the same.

10:55

When stuff like this happens, there is

10:57

a certain amount of understanding that companies

11:00

have that the public is not very

11:02

well informed and a certain amount of

11:04

profiteering that can occur. So, you know,

11:06

if Wizards decided to, say, take advantage

11:09

of a rising tide raising all prices,

11:11

they might very well decide to jack

11:13

up the cost of their D&D books,

11:16

just kind of to keep ahead of

11:18

the industry curve. I think they are

11:20

probably well aware of this dichotomy between

11:22

wanting it to be very accessible and

11:25

easy to pick off the shelf in

11:27

your big box stores. but also making

11:29

sure that the people that buy it

11:32

know that they're committing to something that

11:34

is going to last for more than

11:36

one play session knowing that you're going

11:38

to get get your money's worth it's

11:41

not just going to be set down

11:43

for one night it sounds like it's

11:45

going to be something that you could

11:48

do over and over again maybe the

11:50

idea of the 1999 or 2999 starter

11:52

set is probably gone but if you

11:54

can keep it in that below $50

11:57

range US that still something that probably

11:59

won't deter. the people that they want

12:01

to push this toward which are

12:04

people like us who want to

12:06

buy it and people who have

12:08

kids that want to play and

12:11

they've heard about the game and

12:13

oh here it is oh 4999 yeah that's

12:15

fine a video game is 60

12:17

now so why not 70 yeah or 70

12:19

or more so yeah this seems

12:21

reasonable as long as it comes

12:24

in probably 25% 30% under a

12:26

dissent or a gloom havens MSRP,

12:28

I think you're okay. Yeah, I

12:31

mean those sort of games, I

12:33

think this would be closer to

12:35

a, something like a pandemic, not

12:37

the pandemic is in the board

12:40

game pandemic, which he has, well,

12:42

it has little cubes in it,

12:44

but it's got no other, we

12:46

can't see what's on your shelf, no.

12:49

I got so excited that I was

12:51

so sad. You know, those sort of

12:53

games that again, I'm. Speaking in Australian

12:55

dollars, like 70, 80 Australian dollars, probably

12:57

50 in the US, I think this

12:59

is much more where that would, this

13:01

new D&D starter set would sit as

13:03

opposed to like the 120 to 200

13:06

dollars that a gloom haven or a

13:08

descent can get to because they've got

13:10

a lot of plastic and different things

13:12

in them. I think to its credit,

13:14

like if it sits within that 50

13:16

USD price range or below, it definitely

13:18

answers what Ash from Gorilla miniature miniature

13:20

games calls the Christmas morning test for

13:23

a starter set, which is... Can you

13:25

open this on Christmas morning and be

13:27

playing it by lunchtime? You know,

13:29

can you engage with your Christmas

13:31

present the morning that you have

13:34

it? Which a lot of particularly

13:36

miniatures games. don't necessarily do because you

13:38

need to build the miniatures or you need

13:40

to, you know, the old D&D starter set,

13:42

you need to learn the rules. They've talked

13:45

about how the new adventure booklets, there's three

13:47

booklets in here, one for the caves of

13:49

chaos, one for the wilderness and one for

13:52

the keep on the borderlands as like separate

13:54

booklets that the GM can walk through and

13:56

have described them as being relatively like

13:58

open them and walk. through them as

14:00

you play as opposed to needing

14:03

to read through the whole thing.

14:05

If that's true, it's a great

14:07

Christmas morning thing to get your

14:09

kids into D&D or birthday morning

14:11

thing or whatever it happens to

14:13

be. Whatever the gifting occasion is.

14:15

I'm hopeful it is that way.

14:17

We'll just have to come back

14:19

to it again once it comes

14:21

out. James, you're so Elphin at

14:23

all times. That's what I'm going

14:25

for, Dale. I'm glad it's working.

14:28

Well, speaking of things that make

14:30

great presence, and Elphin. Companion Quest!

14:32

The new board game from GhostVai

14:34

Gaming has launched on Kickstarter. By

14:36

Elphin, I mean No Mish, because

14:38

you play as a family of

14:40

gnomes, companion quest is a one

14:42

to four player co-op board game,

14:44

where a little munchkinny, gremliny monster

14:46

called Googoo has gotten a sugar

14:48

rush, run off through the realms

14:51

and started opening portals to all

14:53

different places, getting monsters coming out

14:55

of portals and water in the

14:57

desert and all sorts of chaos,

14:59

and you. Have to stop them

15:01

by gathering together your companions, luring

15:03

them in with treats. It's not

15:05

that sinister, I swear. But the

15:07

game is apparently quite difficult. It's

15:09

on Kickstarter right now. I will

15:11

throw a link in the... Oh

15:13

my goodness, I just realized I

15:16

don't have the Twitch chat open.

15:18

James, I don't think you were

15:20

on the episode we talked about

15:22

companion quest with Logan. Have you

15:24

had a chance to look at

15:26

this? No, I mean I've looked

15:28

at the Kickstarter page, of course,

15:30

but... What would you tell me?

15:32

Someone who knows nothing about it.

15:34

You know what I love about

15:36

it quite honestly is the fact

15:38

that it is a solo game.

15:41

I am always looking for good.

15:43

solo games, this might sound depressing,

15:45

I'm not sure. But in terms

15:47

of like the commitment to hobby

15:49

that D&D sometimes has, but particularly

15:51

war games and things have, you

15:53

know, you put it all in

15:55

the time of learning the game

15:57

or whatever and then you never

15:59

get to play it because you

16:01

need to get friends together. Having

16:03

a solo game. option is a

16:06

strong sell for me for something

16:08

to do on a Saturday afternoon

16:10

or something like that. So that's

16:12

kind of my strong selling point.

16:14

It's also while the theme of

16:16

it is quite cute and quite,

16:18

you know, the arts are really

16:20

really nice, really dazzling, very family

16:22

friendly. Apparently the game is quite

16:24

difficult, like it is challenging, it

16:26

is, you know, an adult might

16:28

need to walk a child through

16:31

it for the first time, but

16:33

that means that it's appealing to

16:35

people who are maybe a bit

16:37

more hardcore about their board games

16:39

and like a challenge, which I

16:41

find solo games tend to be.

16:43

So is it exclusively solo or

16:45

is it can it be played

16:47

co-op with multiple people? No, you

16:49

can play it co-op with multiple

16:51

people. It passes the Christmas morning

16:53

test. One to four players co-op

16:56

game. This reminds me a little

16:58

bit of a game I love

17:00

that actually, Dale and I played

17:02

a packs a couple years ago

17:04

called Parks. That was a competitive

17:06

game, but that has a solo

17:08

mode to it also. I'm sure,

17:10

you know, in effect, they're quite

17:12

different, but I love the idea

17:14

of games that. you know, or

17:16

designed for before people, but then

17:18

could be paired back down and

17:21

have a special solo mechanic. Yeah,

17:23

I mean, I love arguing with

17:25

my friends over what we should

17:27

do next in the co-op game

17:29

as opposed to arguing with them

17:31

because they just blatted me in

17:33

a different board game. So, you

17:35

know, at least it doesn't get

17:37

personal when it's when you're on

17:39

the same side. The Kickstarter is

17:41

live now for companion quest. Links

17:44

will be up that way if

17:46

you're watching this on YouTube or

17:48

down in the show notes. So

17:50

check it out if it sounds

17:52

interesting. Resident NPC of this podcast,

17:54

Chris Cox, the NPC if you

17:56

will, did an interview. Yeah, yeah,

17:58

yeah. That should be our next

18:00

Ellie's Award, is the MPC of

18:02

the Year. Chris Cox, who is

18:04

the CEO of Hasbro. the parent

18:06

company of Wizards of the Coast,

18:09

and apparently he's a very big

18:11

D&D fan, didn't interview for Semaphore,

18:13

which is a business magazine. Cox

18:15

talking a couple of different topics

18:17

ranging from how he apparently, this

18:19

was kind of a throwaway comment,

18:21

but apparently uses D&D as like

18:23

a team building exercise, or at

18:25

least mentioned that he was playing

18:27

D&D with the sales team from

18:29

Hasbro, which, you know, it's kind

18:31

of fun to think about. Talking

18:34

about Hasbro's strategy around play, not

18:36

storytelling, around creating games and toys

18:38

rather than entertainment products like shows

18:40

and movies, thus the sale of

18:42

E1. Talk a little bit about

18:44

AI and being an AI bull.

18:46

which I'm sure someone will create

18:48

AI art of. And also talking

18:50

a little bit about Hasbro may

18:52

be impacted by rising costs, particularly

18:54

around importing and tariffs within the

18:56

US. Do we need to talk

18:59

about AI anymore on this podcast?

19:01

You know, it's like, for goodness

19:03

sake. Yeah, let's not make this

19:05

the thumbnail this week, got it.

19:07

Yeah, yeah. Like, listen, we're all

19:09

annoyed. Let's leave it at that.

19:11

I do have one probably unpopular

19:13

opinion, and that is that I

19:15

love it when we have a

19:17

little bit of Chris Cox news

19:19

on this podcast. It's always like

19:21

a fun little glimpse into this

19:24

life. It's like, what is happening

19:26

with you? And it can be

19:28

the most boring thing in the

19:30

world, but I'm riveted. I don't

19:32

disagree with you at all. I

19:34

don't think that's an unpopular opinion.

19:36

I mean, with the AI stuff,

19:38

just for the record, I think

19:40

you're right, James. Nothing here is

19:42

being said that Chris Cox hasn't

19:44

said in the past. For the

19:46

record, the context in which Cox

19:49

is talking about AI is talking

19:51

about AI, interests, you know, an

19:53

AI thing that's like, create your

19:55

own my little pony, create your

19:57

own, you know, whatever. Mr. Invent

19:59

a Mr. Potato Head in an

20:01

AI app or something like that.

20:03

I remain bearish in comparison to

20:05

his bullish. He remains bullish. So

20:07

you and Chris Cox, your spirit

20:09

animals can have a fight. I

20:11

love those example ideas that you

20:14

came up with are just like

20:16

what the internet was. a while

20:18

back just all these sort of

20:20

paper dull games online. It's funny

20:22

that they use the we're using

20:24

the terms bull and bear because

20:26

right because who is who is

20:28

Mr. Cox talking to right he's

20:30

not talking to us he's talking

20:32

to potential investors and board members

20:34

and people who hope to value

20:37

value of Hasbro will go up

20:39

based on his comments and not

20:41

go down. So it's this game

20:43

we play between the business side

20:45

and the game side and It's

20:47

funny, it is worth laughing after

20:49

a while. Maybe that's part of

20:51

what I like about it, is

20:53

that it feels like I'm just

20:55

following some random uni student around

20:57

and watching all of their presentations.

20:59

Just in the bucket of popcorn,

21:02

just like, you can do it!

21:04

Yay! I hope you get a

21:06

good grade! Yeah, when consumer-friendly things

21:08

are said, we're like, boo! Hasbro

21:10

strategy moving away from creating entertainment

21:12

products like TV shows and movies

21:14

and focusing more probably on their

21:16

IPs I think is what he

21:18

was talking about more such as

21:20

D&D. Is my little pony actually

21:22

has bro? I just kind of

21:24

pulled that out of thin end.

21:27

It is. There you go. And

21:29

letting kind of licenses take on

21:31

more of that IP risk, you

21:33

know, like if you're creating a

21:35

TV show and you have to

21:37

pay for everything yourself. that's very

21:39

expensive. Whether as if you partner

21:41

with someone who's going to create

21:43

your TV show or your video

21:45

game or whatever it is for

21:47

you. That means that they're taking

21:49

on, you know, a measure of

21:52

the risk, which means it's less

21:54

risky for Hasbro to necessarily invest

21:56

in those ventures. So, completely reasonable

21:58

strategy, I suppose, for a corporation

22:00

to take. I wonder, though, just

22:02

reflecting on this now, what does

22:04

this mean for video games specifically?

22:06

Because Hasbro have talked a big

22:08

game about creating more video games,

22:10

but do they mean licensed games

22:12

out to third party studios, or

22:14

do they mean owning more studios?

22:17

themselves. I would say the former

22:19

because the latter seems to be

22:21

where they get themselves to the

22:23

trouble and start canceling all sorts

22:25

of games that they've started, games

22:27

that they've talked about that suddenly

22:29

don't get talked about. But as

22:31

soon as there is another home

22:33

run with some game or some

22:35

movie or some TV show, then

22:37

we can expect the opposite to

22:39

happen, right? Because then the risk

22:42

makes the huge reward. and everyone

22:44

starts saying well you know if

22:46

Hasbro could make Baldur's Gate 3

22:48

instead of having to license it

22:50

out look at what they could

22:52

have made and so it's a

22:54

it's the revolving door it's the

22:56

pendulum. It's why good games simply

22:58

have such a hard time being

23:00

made by companies concerned with quarterly

23:02

reports right it's like a quarterly

23:04

report doesn't care about incubation time

23:07

for a studio it doesn't care

23:09

about how maintaining its talent will

23:11

preserve, you know, the systemic institutional

23:13

knowledge of the studio for years

23:15

to come. No, it's about how

23:17

many people can we slash every

23:19

quarter to make sure that our

23:21

line continues to go up and

23:23

the consequences. I also moth and

23:25

I both moth in chat and

23:27

I not in chat, just reminiscing

23:29

on how not that long ago

23:32

they bought a studio to make

23:34

video games because they were like...

23:36

You know what we were wrong

23:38

about doing that with movies? Movies

23:40

are expensive. We'll do it with

23:42

video games. I'm just saying I

23:44

know that we still don't know

23:46

100% What's going on there? We

23:48

do. We do. We know that

23:50

they're producing Exodus. Like that's still

23:52

a Hasbro property and that's not

23:55

been a secret for a few

23:57

years now. Exodus is the sci-fi

23:59

video game that's being produced by

24:01

the dude who did chains of

24:03

Vernas or something a couple years

24:05

ago on D&D Beyond, or not

24:07

D&D Beyond, sorry, DM skilled. Um,

24:09

Exodus the, you know, Exodus, we

24:11

all know, Exodus, right? I don't

24:13

know whether Dale's frozen or still

24:15

giving me an incredulous look. No,

24:17

Exodus! I was wondering why your

24:20

tone was getting like more and

24:22

more like frantic. I was like,

24:24

what did I do? You know,

24:26

like, uh, you know, like, uh,

24:28

ready player one, not ready player

24:30

one. What was the, first level,

24:32

level, level one, Amazon's level show,

24:34

the video game show, the video

24:36

game show, the video game show,

24:38

the video game show, whatever, whatever.

24:40

Oh my god, I forgot the

24:42

game, just got a secret level

24:45

bit. That's... Yeah, it was all

24:47

right. For the game that doesn't

24:49

exist. I don't think I watched

24:51

that one. I cherry-picked which episodes

24:53

I watched. Yeah, no, that's probably

24:55

the wise thing. Yeah, no, they're

24:57

still fully invested in video games,

24:59

I believe, but like, is the

25:01

overall... Chris's strategy, it's interesting what

25:03

you were saying before Sean around

25:05

like, you know, the next time

25:07

there's a big hit, the next

25:10

time there's an honour among thieves

25:12

that just knocks it out of

25:14

the park or whatever, or the

25:16

D&D TV show for Netflix becomes

25:18

the new Game of Thrones, everybody

25:20

would be celebrating and they'll want

25:22

to invest in it again. That

25:24

might be the case, but Cox's

25:26

strategy, at least what he's claiming

25:28

in this interview, has always been

25:30

to, you know, big hits like

25:32

that in entertainment in entertainment, are

25:35

risky. Whether Chris Cox's strategy seems

25:37

to be to kind of pull,

25:39

not take the big swings, let

25:41

partners take the big swings while

25:43

we just work on kind of

25:45

producing what we know we're good

25:47

at. That's what he's claiming in

25:49

this. But that's just it. That's

25:51

what I expect and think that

25:53

they should be doing broadly. Like

25:55

if you just had this big,

25:57

I mean. from your perspective as

26:00

a person who was to bring

26:02

in a lot of money, you've

26:04

just had this big failure with

26:06

the movie stuff. You've gone that

26:08

was a mistake. I expect them

26:10

to be doing what you're talking

26:12

about and largely licensing out. But

26:14

I still think that that being

26:16

like no we're gonna purchase a

26:18

studio and we're gonna do all

26:20

the stuff with the video game

26:22

is an insane. I don't think

26:25

that that points in that direction.

26:27

No matter what he's saying right

26:29

now. The studio that is producing

26:31

Exodus at least. I'm going to

26:33

say they owned it before Honor

26:35

Among Thieves came out. I don't

26:37

think that's a recent purchase. They

26:39

may have purchased other studios recently

26:41

that I can't think of off

26:43

the top of my head and

26:45

the comments I'm sure will educate

26:48

us. That's the, that's the, lightly

26:50

and kindly. Texas-based studio, right, that

26:52

we heard about years ago. I

26:54

think you're right, Ben. I think

26:56

that was before the movie came

26:58

out. Is it James Oldlin? James

27:00

Olin who worked I think for

27:02

biowear and worked on Star Wars.

27:04

I think I'm talking about a

27:06

different thing. I think I'm mixing

27:08

two things together is what's happening

27:10

because that has been in place

27:13

for a billion years. Yeah it's

27:15

just a shame. None of us

27:17

can think of what you're actually

27:19

talking about. It is a shame.

27:21

Like I know you're absolutely right

27:23

about something. Well, changing topic slightly

27:25

and this dovetails with what we

27:27

were talking about before, which is

27:29

an expression I've never fully understood,

27:31

because is it like doves stand

27:33

back to back and their tails

27:35

kind of intertwined? Is that dovetailing?

27:38

I don't know. Anyway, it's a

27:40

it's a it's a woodworking thing.

27:42

Oh, that's right. It is too.

27:44

I didn't know that. Dovetailing with

27:46

our conversation earlier and following conversation,

27:48

Chris Cox also mentioned... Hasbro, keeping

27:50

an eye, you know, having a

27:52

bit of concern about the rising

27:54

costs of manufacturing, especially in the

27:56

wake of the rising China tariffs,

27:58

that may need to be passed

28:00

on to consumers. Cox did mention

28:03

this more in reference to their

28:05

like plastics manufacturing of toys and

28:07

things like Mr. Potato Head that

28:09

he did not name D&D or

28:11

Magic the Gathering specifically when he

28:13

mentioned this, which might be answered

28:15

by what you said earlier, James,

28:17

that paper and that sort of

28:19

manufacturing, book manufacturing is done in

28:21

the US, so it's not a

28:23

concern for this. But yeah, you

28:25

know, Hasbro is keeping an eye

28:28

on it. I think the jump

28:30

and, you know, I'm not a

28:32

political commentator, so forgive me if

28:34

I get any of any of

28:36

this wrong. Initially. The United States

28:38

introduced a 10% tariff on imports

28:40

from China back in February-ish, about

28:42

a week or so ago, two

28:44

weeks ago, that tariff jumped to

28:46

20% on manufacturing goods, or things

28:48

imported from China into the US,

28:50

saying nothing of the Canada-Mexican tariffs,

28:53

which has caused concern for companies

28:55

where they've gone a 10% increase

28:57

was something we could probably have

28:59

swallowed. a 20% increase is something

29:01

that we absolutely cannot and, you

29:03

know, we'll need to figure things

29:05

out whether that is internal price

29:07

restructuring, you know, cost restructuring or

29:09

external. For the record, Chris Cox

29:11

did not say that. Those are

29:13

kind of implied information from the

29:15

next topic, speaking of tariffs, which

29:18

is that Mike Didimus... of board

29:20

game wire wrote an extensive article

29:22

discussing how board game publishers, particularly

29:24

independent board game publishers, are getting

29:26

extremely nervous about the current situation

29:28

with tariffs. Rascal also did an

29:30

article about this, if you want

29:32

to go check them out, I'll

29:34

throw, I don't have links on

29:36

me to throw into the twitch

29:38

chat, I apologize, but I'll throw

29:41

them into the show notes. Yeah,

29:43

particularly because a lot of board

29:45

games, particularly those with plastic components,

29:48

but even those manufactured with cardboard

29:50

or paper components, are manufactured overseas.

29:52

And so there's a lot of

29:54

concern coming out of publishers such

29:56

as. Tetix, who published Deep Regrets,

29:58

Stonemire, who published Wingspan, Letter Games,

30:01

Root and Arks, the Board Games,

30:03

if you're familiar, Renegade Games, who

30:05

published HeroScape, but also, I believe,

30:07

published Vampire Massacre Raid. A lot

30:09

of concern from these companies about

30:11

the rising cost of importing. goods

30:14

manufactured overseas. You know, this is

30:16

what I'm talking about, right? Wizards

30:18

has the enormity of Hasbro's corporate

30:20

machine, which gives it access to

30:22

U.S. publishers, because U.S. publishing is

30:24

more expensive than in China, because

30:27

China's industry is largely based around

30:29

industry and not sort of post-industrial

30:31

consumer goods in the way that

30:33

America is. a lot more expensive

30:35

than it is outsourcing it overseas.

30:37

And because the margins are so

30:40

thin for tabletop gaming, the only

30:42

way that some of these indie

30:44

publishers can publish what they do

30:46

is because of recent sort of

30:48

explosive advances in publishing on the

30:50

sheet with overseas publishers. You know,

30:53

American studios could do everything in

30:55

America, support local industry, all that

30:57

stuff. I don't think that's a

30:59

bad thing in any way. The

31:01

frustration about terrorists is mostly about

31:03

brute forcing this sort of decision

31:06

on rather than making a ground

31:08

up grassroots. method of improving American

31:10

industry, right? It's going to incite

31:12

trade war. A lot of people

31:14

are going to get hurt. People

31:16

who have made plans based on

31:19

the current state of international trade.

31:21

Because ultimately it's not big companies

31:23

like Hazra who are caught in

31:25

the pinch buy it. It's little

31:27

guys, little indie publishers who are

31:29

making money that would be. rounding

31:32

errors on how to balance sheets

31:34

are ultimately the people who are

31:36

going to get priced out by

31:38

this sort of trade war that's

31:40

going on. Yeah, the concern, as

31:42

somebody pointed out in chat, in

31:45

terms of movie industry in a

31:47

month, from board game manufacturers that

31:49

I've been reading, is that like

31:51

the machines, the skills, the knowledge

31:53

of how to manufacture, especially at

31:55

scale, certain components for board games,

31:58

just doesn't exist. in the United

32:00

States. It's not just a matter

32:02

of going like, all right, well,

32:04

let's turn on the US machines

32:06

now and now we'll build them

32:09

here. You know, that's theoretically what

32:11

tariffs are intended to do. I

32:13

believe as someone who's, again, not

32:15

a political commentator, so correct me

32:17

in the comments if I get

32:19

this wrong. And that's, you know,

32:22

it's going to be... companies that

32:24

may not be able to make

32:26

that transition, they might not survive

32:28

that transition if it's forced upon

32:30

them and takes, you know, several

32:32

months, if not years, to be

32:35

able to spin up that sort

32:37

of manufacturing in a different nation.

32:39

Yeah, I mean, Roman in chat

32:41

says it very succinctly, terrorist work,

32:43

when you already have industry in

32:45

the country and it's being undercut

32:48

overseas. I mean, we used to

32:50

have industry in America. We decided

32:52

we wanted... things cheaper. We want

32:54

a cheaper plastic knickknacks and cheaper,

32:56

well mostly plastic knickknacks if the

32:58

McDonald's toys of my childhood or

33:01

anything to go by, but it's

33:03

sort of, it's sort of affected

33:05

everything at this point. So if

33:07

we want to produce and you

33:09

know, there are ways of doing

33:11

it that are less explosive than

33:14

what's going on right now will

33:16

even. work. Well, I'm glad that

33:18

you've kind of mentioned that because

33:20

one of the big concerns coming

33:22

out of the board game wire

33:24

article wasn't necessarily the rising tariffs

33:27

themselves, but also the uncertainty, speaking

33:29

specifically about the Canadian Mexican tariffs,

33:31

about them being introduced. I believe

33:33

in February, and it was like,

33:35

all right, they're on. And then

33:37

it was like, well, let's put

33:40

them off for a month, and

33:42

then March hits, and it's like,

33:44

all right, they're on again. And

33:46

then last I heard, and get

33:48

correct, if I'm wrong, they're off

33:50

for another month. You know, so

33:53

it's kind of this, you don't

33:55

know what to do, even the

33:57

China tariff starting at 10% and

33:59

then rising kind of apropo of

34:01

nothing up to 20% will they

34:03

rise again, will they rise again,

34:06

will they go down, will they

34:08

go down, They're figuring out whether

34:10

they need to put their prices

34:12

on to consumers, which is not

34:14

an easy decision because if tariffs

34:16

come down, then it's not as

34:19

easy as pulling your prices back

34:21

down on a product because retailers

34:23

and distributors have already paid a

34:25

certain cost for them that have

34:27

theoretically overpaid at that point. Yeah,

34:29

I'm starting to get lost in

34:32

my own thoughts here, but go

34:34

check out the board game wire

34:36

article if you want a more

34:38

nuanced take on this. And then

34:40

speaking of which this kind of

34:42

a separate topic but possibly related

34:45

I don't want to draw a

34:47

thread here that doesn't exist but

34:49

I believe Michael in chat was

34:51

asking this before drive through RPG

34:53

print on demand services are also

34:55

seeing a price rise which is

34:58

coming in April. At the start

35:00

of April, Sean, do you, sorry,

35:02

I didn't put the list down

35:04

on the look, don't you, do

35:06

you have the rising costs that

35:08

are coming to drive through our

35:11

PG? All right, I'm doing this

35:13

without a net, folks. Are you

35:15

ready? For soft cover, I believe,

35:17

black and white, it is. going

35:19

to go up in the US

35:21

20% to 50% whereas in the

35:24

UK it is a less of

35:26

an increase maybe like 3 to

35:28

6% however the opposite whether there

35:30

was soft cover or hard cover

35:32

the opposite is going to go

35:34

up even more than that 20

35:37

to 50% so depending on the

35:39

size of the product you could

35:41

be paying 50% or more in

35:43

addition to what you have been

35:45

paying color printing soft cover hard

35:47

cover will not be as drastic

35:50

an increase but it will still

35:52

be a slight increase. more expensive

35:54

coming April 1st if you do

35:56

print on demand through drive-through. And

35:58

it's starting April 1st because it's

36:00

a joke! It is a joke

36:03

but not the kind that you

36:05

want. This is what I didn't

36:07

say on Mastering Dungeons, but it's

36:09

still a podcast you should go

36:11

check out, which is that drive-through

36:13

RPG runs its print-on-on-demand service in

36:16

the US and in the UK.

36:18

Right, so if you're a US

36:20

citizen and you, or you're living

36:22

in the US, I should say,

36:24

and you print on demand from

36:26

drive through IPG, it's printed in

36:29

the country and then sent to

36:31

you. The reason drive through IPG

36:33

have cited these relatively drastic increase

36:35

in prices is increased supply costs

36:37

in the US, so whatever is

36:39

used to manufacture those books, be

36:42

it paper, paper, ink. I don't

36:44

know, upkeep for the machines, whatever

36:46

it happens to be. And also,

36:48

I noted, Sean, when you read

36:50

off the list of increases, that

36:52

the prices are increasing a lot

36:55

more in the US than they

36:57

are in the UK. For sure.

36:59

Now, I don't want to draw

37:01

a thread that doesn't, this is

37:03

pure speculation, maybe even conspiratorial, I

37:05

don't know, until stated. But is

37:08

this issue, the fact that tariffs

37:10

are making it more expensive to

37:12

import the materials used to print

37:14

these books? or are the materials

37:16

created within the US? That I

37:18

don't know, but it occurred to

37:21

me as a, not an incredible

37:23

coincidence, but a coincidence nonetheless. After

37:25

this, therefore, because of this as

37:27

a fallacy, but sometimes it is

37:29

because of this, because it's after

37:31

that. So I think it's not

37:34

a leap to understand that prices

37:36

are going up for reasons and

37:38

paper ink, etc. Is one of

37:40

the... come out of these that

37:42

are going to increase as well?

37:44

withstand the storm, I could imagine.

37:47

Manufacturers wanting to hold on to

37:49

something of a stockpile in case

37:51

things get worse because there's no

37:53

clear understanding of whether or not

37:55

things are going to give worse

37:57

or better. And so you don't

38:00

want to lose money betting against

38:02

things getting better or things getting

38:04

worse, I think, kind of a

38:06

double negative. Yeah. Pontification rather than

38:08

statement of fact on that one

38:10

in particular, but as in what

38:13

I was saying, not what James

38:15

was saying, because I agree with

38:17

you James. But Sean, what were

38:19

you saying as well? I thought

38:21

you had a really salient point

38:23

for folks that had backed RPG

38:26

kickstaters that were being delivered through

38:28

print on demand on drive through

38:30

RPG. Right. You have to feel

38:32

for the people who created these

38:34

things and collected money based on

38:36

print on demand being done through

38:39

drive through expecting a certain cost

38:41

and now that cost will have

38:43

increased. So. Hopefully, these smaller publishers

38:45

who have given that option for

38:47

folks are going to be able

38:50

to weather the storm of these

38:52

increased printing prices if they collected

38:54

the money before April 1st and

38:56

then have to deliver after. Speaking

38:58

of all of that, it's time

39:00

to wash our mouths out with

39:03

a fun topic. Let us jump

39:05

to some listener emails at podcast

39:07

at ghostfyingaming.com. You on your listener

39:09

email answered. If it's to do

39:11

with politics, maybe send it to

39:13

a more equipped podcast. But if

39:16

it's to do with table to

39:18

my beaches, then you can send

39:20

it here, like Frantashak did, asking

39:22

about viable party patrons. How do

39:24

you create a villainous warlock patron

39:26

or cleric deity that doesn't work

39:29

against the interests of the entire

39:31

rest of the good aligned party?

39:33

What could a deity ask for?

39:35

that isn't going to make one

39:37

character inviolable and always clashing with

39:39

the rest of the players. These

39:42

days it feels like a lot...

39:44

of the evil we see in

39:46

the real world is sort of

39:48

incompatible with any kind of collaboration.

39:50

A lot of chaos spreading chaos.

39:52

But it's kind of worth remembering

39:55

that there are absolutely villains. both

39:57

in fiction and in real life,

39:59

who are happy to work with

40:01

people whose goals align only tangentially

40:03

with theirs. People who can, let's

40:05

say a warlock patron like Asmodaeus,

40:08

right, this divine puppet master, who

40:10

is happy to have wheels within

40:12

wheels, and sort of benegessorit, like

40:14

a person whose plans are measured

40:16

in centuries. Very happy if Asimadais

40:18

can tip the cosmic scales by

40:21

actually doing a little bit of

40:23

good in the world. In the

40:25

Mordenkainen's books, Mordenkainen often talks about

40:27

how it's a very good thing

40:29

that demons and devils are endlessly

40:31

blood warring against each other because

40:34

if they were not and they

40:36

were united in their alignment against

40:38

the Celestials, all hell would break

40:40

loose, literally. One can see this

40:42

sort of chess master patron wanting

40:44

exactly what the party wants because

40:47

he knows the greater game. Yes,

40:49

yes, yes, yes, yes. Very good,

40:51

very tasty. I live for this

40:53

stuff. I talked about it a

40:55

little bit when I did my

40:57

sort of packed burner warlock where

41:00

I was talking about how I

41:02

wish that warlocks had a little

41:04

bit more in built stakes in

41:06

terms of I love that creeping

41:08

build of like... they're not asking

41:10

much of you. They're not asking

41:13

that much of you. They just

41:15

want you to, you know, steal

41:17

this necklace from the, you know,

41:19

baker's daughter and then leave it

41:21

on this mountain side in the

41:23

moonlight. You know what I mean?

41:26

Like, it's like, whatever. Or, you

41:28

know, you get this message from

41:30

so and so and you pass

41:32

it on to another. But like,

41:34

they're not asking that much of

41:36

you because you are... just a

41:39

single porn in a greater game.

41:41

And they see the big picture,

41:43

you only see the small picture.

41:45

I love that stuff, and I

41:47

love the idea of it creeping

41:49

up and up and up until

41:52

you reach a point where you

41:54

go, oh, this is the thing

41:56

I don't want to do. But

41:58

I've already put myself in debt.

42:00

I love that tasty, tasty, tasty.

42:02

And actually, yeah, I was just

42:05

going to say a guy called

42:07

Thomas Pinkham. took that concept and

42:09

built it out into this whole

42:11

thing and they have whole tables

42:13

in their packed burner product that

42:15

are just little things that your

42:18

patron might ask he be sorry

42:20

about your organization. I was just

42:22

going to add on to that

42:24

and say eventually there will come

42:26

a point if the PCs are

42:28

clever that they'll cotton on to

42:31

what's happening and they'll be like

42:33

oh that's a bridge too far

42:35

from me actually and I think

42:37

it's perfectly reasonable for the patron

42:39

to go that's fine I've got

42:41

other things for you to do

42:44

and then have some other agent

42:46

of that patron do the nasty

42:48

work that got the PC's hands

42:50

dirtier than they were willing to

42:52

do. And that's a great villain.

42:54

That's a great session level villain

42:57

for like a competing interest of

42:59

your patron to all of a

43:01

sudden be in your way. And

43:03

think of it as well in

43:05

terms of like, maybe you're asked

43:07

to like assassinate this tyrant king.

43:10

They're a bad dude. Why wouldn't

43:12

you want to do that? But

43:14

if you look at the broader

43:16

picture you take out that king

43:18

suddenly war happens like it can

43:20

have these grander implications and what

43:23

does a party do when faced

43:25

with that? Do you still kill

43:27

the tyrant king who's a bad

43:29

guy who you do want to

43:31

kill? Or do you now have

43:33

to protect that guy because of

43:36

the broader implication? You know, there's

43:38

all these different fun things that

43:40

you can play with. I think

43:42

it's also worth mentioning. And this,

43:44

this, all of this goes as

43:46

well for deities, for clerics and

43:49

things like that, if you wanted

43:51

to cover that as well. You

43:53

know, I mean, I think of,

43:55

what's the, what's the angel in

43:57

the sort of pre-story for, for

43:59

descent into a Venice? Zeriel. Zeriel.

44:02

See, that's fun. Like, you can

44:04

do it with angels too. I'm

44:06

just saying like. there's this room

44:08

there, it's not only your creepy

44:10

wallop patrons, but it's also worth

44:12

noting, it's fine for it to

44:15

be a thing that occasionally comes

44:17

up and does like get in

44:19

the way of your party. It

44:21

is fun for the wallock player

44:23

who has deliberately chosen that flavor

44:25

in that class to get an

44:28

episode or a mini arc in

44:30

the grandest story where it is

44:32

like, no, now that that patron

44:34

is like a real. adversary for

44:36

your party and you have to

44:38

deal with that right now now

44:41

you are being you know confronted

44:43

with this and have it be

44:45

a big deal I don't think

44:47

it's a bad thing to have

44:49

it be a big deal as

44:51

long as it doesn't take over

44:54

the entire thing yeah yeah I

44:56

agree especially if it's kind of

44:58

building towards something like you talk

45:00

about the the king What if

45:02

his eyes are like artifacts, you

45:04

know, these ancient stones that he

45:07

has in his face? And they're

45:09

the some some source of his

45:11

power and at the end of

45:13

the campaign once he's defeated you

45:15

have to take the eyes Because

45:17

that's what the patrons after maybe

45:20

they're the eyes of another god

45:22

that was slain, you know, and

45:24

so then the warlock has to

45:26

convince the other players in the

45:28

party. Hey I could give these

45:30

to my patron, you know, and

45:33

it's not a conflict, it's not

45:35

stopping anybody from accomplishing their goals

45:37

necessarily, but it's drama that gets

45:39

the players kind of discussing and

45:41

debating among themselves, and then whatever

45:44

happens to that artifact can go

45:46

on to affect the rest of

45:48

the campaign, whether, you know, they're

45:50

given to the patron and then...

45:52

another villain comes along who now

45:54

is using them and it's like,

45:57

wait a minute, isn't that guy

45:59

an ally of it? Uh-oh, what

46:01

did we do? Or the party

46:03

decide to keep them and one

46:05

of the players is like, actually

46:07

I could use these and now

46:10

they're suffering some sort of, dare

46:12

I say, not that everything should

46:14

come to this, but transformation or

46:16

curse because they chose to keep

46:18

the eyes instead, you know, so

46:20

I can... The other thing I

46:23

say, the flip side of this

46:25

is also ensuring that... the players

46:27

and I know this is a

46:29

well-worn topic I suppose but like

46:31

the other players in the party

46:33

aren't being kind of the the

46:36

the causes of conflict I had

46:38

a player and this is this

46:40

is a positive story in our

46:42

group but it could be a

46:44

negative story in a different group

46:46

where one of the players was

46:49

just absolutely unyieldingly hated any sort

46:51

of evil deity or patron and

46:53

was got to a point where

46:55

they were they were butting heads

46:57

with the warlock so much, you

46:59

got to the point where they

47:02

started fighting each other and I

47:04

had to have the deity, dais

47:06

X Makana appear in person and

47:08

cast a modified memory on this

47:10

character so that they forgot that

47:12

the other character was a warlock

47:15

and had to believe from then

47:17

on they were a cleric or

47:19

something else. And it was just,

47:21

we need to, the campaign needs

47:23

to continue. We can't, you know,

47:25

keep having this conflict, you know,

47:28

so. It's not just sometimes the

47:30

warlock isn't the problem just saying

47:32

that's the most interesting use of

47:34

modify memory I think I've ever

47:36

heard of where it's like even

47:38

the players were like we kind

47:41

of need to resolve this and

47:43

the only way around it is

47:45

I'm gonna physically make sure my

47:47

character can't can't realize what's going

47:49

on that's good I like to

47:51

quote the infamous dark helmet here

47:54

from space balls right evil will

47:56

always triumph over good because good

47:58

is stupid And you don't need

48:00

to be a genius to out

48:02

with the good players, right? As

48:04

Modius wants you to raid that

48:07

temple over there, I'll just tell

48:09

the players that that temple captured

48:11

these good folks or actually have

48:13

your people capture the good folks

48:15

and take them there and donate

48:17

them to the cause. And then

48:20

you've just set the players off

48:22

on, you know, it's not difficult

48:24

to do. You don't want to

48:26

overdo the ploy. because pretty soon

48:28

even even the most dimwooded good

48:30

characters will get on the same

48:33

page and realize that we're being

48:35

fooled. at every turn, but it's

48:37

not hard to do. Excellent advice

48:39

all. Let us jump to one

48:41

last email here, I believe, from

48:43

Mick. He's asking, and maybe this

48:46

is a Sean question, I'm not

48:48

sure, about Greyhawk, any resources for

48:50

introducing Greyhawk to a group of

48:52

players besides the 2024 DMG. And

48:54

also, I suppose, to editorialize the

48:56

question a little bit, what's exciting

48:59

about Greyhawk? What's a good starting

49:01

point? What separates it from other

49:03

settings? The answer is, in the

49:05

long run, nothing. Nothing, nothing separates

49:07

it from the multitude of settings

49:09

that are out there. Is it

49:12

different? Yes. Is it different enough

49:14

that you're like, oh, I am

49:16

now playing in a world that

49:18

is so different from everything I've

49:20

ever seen before? I love Greyhawk,

49:22

but it is the base from

49:25

which all other worlds have been

49:27

built. So it's sort of, it's

49:29

all been done. That said, it

49:31

can be a very fun setting

49:33

to play in because of the

49:35

unique features. So when you ask

49:38

what sources should you go to,

49:40

I would say go to some

49:42

of the very earliest adventures, go

49:44

to the village of Hamlet, go

49:46

to the Temple of Elementary Evil,

49:48

go to those... classic B&D modules.

49:51

I hate using that term, but

49:53

that's what they were called, then

49:55

modules. And just dive into a

49:57

specific rather than trying to take

49:59

in the whole world. Get your

50:01

hands dirty with the actual adventures

50:04

that can be had there. If

50:06

you want a look, a deep

50:08

dive look at the world, I

50:10

would go with the living forgotten

50:12

realms journal. I think all of

50:14

this stuff is on the DM

50:17

skill. If you do a search

50:19

on Greyhawk as the setting, you

50:21

will get a list of not

50:23

only things published by TSR and

50:25

but also community members. But I

50:27

would go for, I'm gonna find

50:30

it right here. The Living Greyhawk

50:32

Gazetteer, it has, Teis and I

50:34

did a deep dive into this

50:36

book. It has all the nations,

50:38

it's got all the NPCs, all

50:40

the cool stories. This happens after

50:43

they did a reset for 2024,

50:45

sort of what back in time.

50:47

This is ahead of that, but

50:49

it still has great information that

50:51

you can use. Lots of plots

50:53

lots of cool places to set

50:56

your adventures in. Are there novels

50:58

for Greyhawk like you're offered Dragonlands?

51:00

There are even Gary Gygax written

51:02

novels if I'm if I'm remembering

51:04

right. He has gored the rogue

51:06

Several gored the rogue novels that

51:09

I enjoyed as a teenager. I

51:11

can't vouch for how they traveled

51:13

your time in space But yes,

51:15

there are several Greyhawk novels including

51:17

some that dive into going through

51:19

one of these adventure modules and

51:22

sort of showing it narratively. Some

51:24

very good, some absolutely wretched. I

51:26

will warn you now, but they're

51:28

out there. Provost Frost and Chess

51:30

asked, did he, I'm assuming, Gary

51:32

Geigax, actually write those novels or

51:35

was there a ghostwriter? I have

51:37

not read those novels in their

51:39

totality, but I have read excerpts

51:41

of them because I was very

51:43

curious. And if you compare the

51:45

writing style to the writing style

51:48

of those early D&D books, they

51:50

are unmistakably Gary Gygax for better

51:52

or for worse. And that is,

51:54

even if you don't like those

51:56

books or that style, they're worth

51:58

reading because he has an unmistakable

52:01

authorial voice and they're they're entertaining

52:03

in that way. Then your dictionary.

52:05

Yeah, absolutely. What kind of like,

52:07

how do I phrase this, what

52:09

kind of person would you recommend

52:11

look to Greyhawk? What kind of,

52:14

if I like Tolkien and George

52:16

R. Martin, should I go to

52:18

Greyhawk? Or if I like arcane

52:20

and avatar The Last Air Bender,

52:22

should I go to Greyhawk? What

52:25

kind of fantasy enjoyer should check

52:27

that setting up? I don't want

52:29

to say low fantasy because it's

52:31

not, but it's more of the

52:33

sword and sorcery style that they.

52:35

took from the sources that you

52:38

see at the back of the

52:40

appendix and of the original dungeon

52:42

master's guide, right? So you've got

52:44

your Conan, you've got your Elric,

52:46

you've got all of those influences

52:48

are definitely strongly felt there. But

52:51

you also have some very high

52:53

magic places where you could set

52:55

adventures. The world itself tries to

52:57

do a lot politically socially, which

52:59

again does not necessarily travel well,

53:01

but Again, if you dive into

53:04

certain areas, then you can tell

53:06

some amazing stories and there's great

53:08

seeds with which you can tell

53:10

a lot of stories on your

53:12

own. I get the sense it's

53:14

kind of pre-kitchen sink forgotten realms

53:17

in terms of like, forgotten realms

53:19

kind of feels like it's larger

53:21

than life and everything's been poured

53:23

into it, including things from Greyhawk.

53:25

Whether it's that classic Tolkien-esque. you

53:27

know, middle European fantasy setting that

53:30

hasn't necessarily become overburdened with everything

53:32

and the cat being thrown into

53:34

it. For sure. The only, well,

53:36

there were very few official Greyhawk

53:38

products published after second edition. Third

53:40

edition, we had a couple, including

53:43

this Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, because they

53:45

handed the setting over to the

53:47

organized play campaign. So we got

53:49

to play around in it, we

53:51

got to make stuff, but Wizards

53:53

of the Coast had owned it

53:56

by then, and they didn't publish

53:58

any official content for it. You're

54:00

going back all the way to almost

54:02

second edition with the

54:04

official content from in this

54:06

world. So you still, you didn't get

54:09

a lot of that upgrade or change

54:11

through the additions. Apologies for

54:13

folks in Australia. Yes, the time

54:15

zones did jump forward this week.

54:17

So we are now 9am on

54:19

a Tuesday, Australian Eastern Standard Time

54:22

or daylight time. In about a

54:24

month, the time of the lawcast

54:26

live will change in the US

54:28

to 7 p.m. 4 p.m. Pacific

54:30

it is still 6 and 3

54:32

p.m. next Monday and for the

54:34

next few weeks but if you're

54:37

in Australia it is 9 a.m.

54:39

Eastern standard time from now on

54:41

I apologize for not letting folks

54:43

know that earlier otherwise you can get

54:45

you on YouTube we're on YouTube

54:47

like every week guys I don't know

54:50

if you knew that but you can

54:52

get us on YouTube and you can

54:54

like and you can subscribe And we're

54:56

also on Spotify, so you can find

54:58

us on Spotify or any good. And

55:00

if you watch on YouTube or Spotify,

55:02

etc., you don't have to worry about

55:04

this time zone nonsense that the people

55:06

catching us live on Twitch have to

55:08

deal with. You don't get to participate in

55:11

the chat. but you can still comment

55:13

and sometimes we read those comments and

55:15

if you have questions you can ask

55:17

a question in the comments and you

55:20

can comment on Spotify just make sure

55:22

you pull over the car responsibly. This

55:24

is my favorite impromptu Ben character.

55:26

Yeah Ben's getting over a cold.

55:28

Anyway I will catch you I

55:30

mean we'll all catch you not

55:32

just me but all of us

55:34

here all four of us hopefully

55:36

next week on another episode of

55:39

the Eldridge Lawcast. Whoa! But a

55:41

woo! That's the way the news

55:43

goes. That's what I have.

55:45

That was good. As

55:47

Jay Pizza Beat said

55:49

in chat, speaking of

55:51

El Fin. El Fin.

55:53

El Fin. El Fin.

55:55

El Fin. El Fin.

55:57

El Fin. El Fin.

56:00

Now I know how the YouTube

56:02

video is going to end with

56:04

just helping as it fades to

56:06

like it.