0:00

I'm Tyler and I'm Casey and you're

0:02

listening to the element podcast What

0:12

is going on everyone? Welcome to

0:14

the element podcast. Welcome's kind of

0:16

a weird thing. Kind of sounds

0:18

like a in-person and it's almost

0:20

like we are there with you.

0:22

You know? It's just you don't

0:25

have any input. Which is how

0:27

it usually is talking to me

0:29

anyways. I like over people. That's

0:31

right. This is the element podcast

0:33

brought to you by lacrosse boots.

0:35

Lacrosse boots are pretty nice when

0:37

you're out hunting. Turkeys or pigs,

0:39

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1:01

lace up kind of guy, the venom

1:03

2 is pretty nice as well, so

1:05

go check those out. We have been doing,

1:07

as y'all probably know, quite a

1:09

bit of pig hunting. of the United

1:12

States of America does not all get to sample

1:14

into the hog hunting but it is our local

1:16

regional exciting thing that we get to do this

1:18

time of year because we don't have turkeys we

1:20

don't have bears which a lot of people have

1:22

bears you know it's not really a thing that

1:24

is far-reaching it's kind of a western thing but

1:26

anyway everybody gets really excited about turkeys this time

1:28

of year and we like them too but I

1:30

ain't got a lot of turkey talking to do

1:32

I just want to do a little bit of turkey

1:34

shooting a little bit of turkey shooting and that's

1:36

that right? I just am

1:39

not a strategist about it

1:41

and you know quite honestly

1:43

I've become more of a

1:45

strategist about pigs like y'all

1:47

probably know I have shot a

1:50

lot of pigs tighter shot quite a

1:52

few himself and for a

1:54

long time we just kind of

1:57

considered him like this thing that

1:59

you do that is kind of

2:01

fun, kind of an opportunity, but

2:03

whatever, it doesn't matter too much.

2:05

And now we're like, you know

2:07

what, we're gonna video this stuff

2:09

and make it awesome because we

2:11

think it's awesome, and we think

2:13

everyone else needs to know about

2:15

it. It's pretty that good, cool,

2:17

man. Pigs are not just, I

2:19

don't know, I almost just take

2:21

calling them feral animals, you know,

2:23

because my dad is a hippie

2:25

about them, real big, but like,

2:27

um... When you call

2:29

something feral, or you call it

2:32

a nuisance or a pest, there

2:34

is usually like this undertone of

2:36

like ignorant animal that comes along

2:38

with that. Yeah, like not scared

2:40

of humans kind of thing? Yeah,

2:42

or just like, you think about

2:45

like a beaty-eyed rat. You know

2:47

what I mean? Like you don't

2:49

think of that as like a...

2:51

intelligent thing but rats are pretty

2:53

smart too you know actually and

2:55

so like there's this thing where

2:57

like when something is considered a

3:00

pest a lot of times you

3:02

like you want to think that

3:04

they're stupid too because they're just

3:06

a problem and that's really not

3:08

how pigs are at all I

3:10

mean yeah are they a problem

3:12

for some people yes they cause

3:15

a lot of damage and a

3:17

lot of different situations yes are

3:19

they also on an individual level

3:21

a really awesome animal yes They

3:23

have... Let's go, dude. The herd

3:25

dynamics of an elk. The intelligence

3:28

of a white tail, but they

3:30

don't see as good. It's like

3:32

a possum or something. You know,

3:34

they just don't see that well.

3:36

I mean, it's not like they

3:38

can't see, but they're not picking

3:40

you off at 300 yards usually.

3:43

You know, like a white tail,

3:45

you know how it is, if

3:47

you were to wave your arm

3:49

at 300 yards, they are out

3:51

of there. And pigs just aren't

3:53

that. And so I think maybe

3:55

there's a little bit of that

3:58

too, where it's... look at them

4:00

in a different light potentially than

4:02

what we have in the past.

4:04

Is there room in the take

4:06

of hogs for like targeted extermination?

4:08

Yes, there's times whenever that needs

4:11

to be done. But guys, a

4:13

little dirty secret, I don't know

4:15

if y'all know this, but they

4:17

do that on deer too. You

4:19

go to some of these big

4:21

airports that have big hyphenced areas,

4:23

they'll go in there with sharpshooters

4:26

at night, sharpshooters in quotes. I

4:28

know those guys. They're not all

4:30

that sharp. But they go on

4:32

there with thermals and they'll shoot

4:34

300 deer in one night. Whitetail

4:36

Deer, America's most loved and empathized

4:39

game in while there is. Bambi.

4:41

And they just go smoke them.

4:43

They did that, they golf course,

4:45

what, 10 years ago, whatever. One

4:47

of the guys that we know

4:49

that's kind of grumpy at times

4:51

down there. He was not happy

4:54

about it. Because again. They have

4:56

people down there that would gladly

4:58

hunt the deer. That can't hunt

5:00

the deer, but they'll bring in

5:02

a quote unquote sharpshooter to shoot

5:04

them. Yeah. Yeah. How about that?

5:06

Yeah. Train professionals. Train ones. Yeah.

5:09

You know, I kind of, I

5:11

hadn't thought about this, but I

5:13

don't call them feral hogs, really.

5:15

Yeah. But which you make a

5:17

good point there. That's the TBWD

5:19

designation. Really? If you look at,

5:22

you know, in the public land

5:24

books and other things, feral hog

5:26

is... Farrell by definition would be

5:28

escaped from domestication. Yeah, I think

5:30

that would be what feral would

5:32

mean. So, I mean, what do

5:34

they call, you'll, you'll, I mean,

5:37

answer this correctly, but what do

5:39

they call a, so they think

5:41

of a game of fish or

5:43

wildlife department releases a trout into

5:45

a stream, that trout breeds in

5:47

the stream, in the stream, has...

5:49

offspring that hatch and when they're

5:52

16 inches caught by fishermen what's

5:54

he going to call that fish

5:56

a wild fish a wild trout

5:58

so I mean I would way

6:00

rather call it a wild I

6:02

think feral is always It's just

6:05

like the way to show that

6:07

this is a problem. I think

6:09

so too, you know, like feral

6:11

cats. Yeah, you know, problem cats,

6:13

problem cats. Yeah, feral cats. Yeah,

6:15

feral dogs. Yeah, I don't know.

6:17

It's interesting. Can feral be something

6:20

that's native? Yeah, I don't know.

6:22

I don't, I don't think, I've

6:24

never heard it used that way.

6:26

I don't think it can, but

6:28

it probably could. We got some

6:30

feral bison out there if that's

6:32

the case. Yeah. You know, feral,

6:35

no-manclature is weird, dude. Yeah, feral

6:37

kind of in a different way

6:39

is a simile to wild, but

6:41

not wild in the sense of

6:43

majestic, you know, wilderness type stuff

6:45

more in the sense of like

6:48

you know crazy yeah call their

6:50

kids feral yeah it's like the

6:52

cute thing these days millennials do

6:54

all my feral kids you know

6:56

whatever but that's not saying that

6:58

those kids are wild and free

7:00

and holistic it's just that they

7:03

run around barefoot and hit each

7:05

other with sticks yeah they need

7:07

some more whoopins maybe that's all

7:09

the hogs need is some discipline

7:11

maybe that's what we should just

7:13

be coming to discipline them But

7:16

one of the things that I

7:18

have enjoyed, especially this year, is

7:20

we've taken more time to hunt

7:22

hogs and we've taken more time

7:24

to hunt hogs and we've taken

7:26

more time to observe them while

7:28

hunting and make some strategic moves.

7:31

You know, one of the criticisms

7:33

of Texas white-tailed deer hunters from

7:35

the rest of the country is

7:37

that... Texas deer hunters just sit

7:39

over feeders and don't learn much

7:41

about deer. They're not real deer

7:43

hunters. I know not everybody says

7:46

that about them and I know

7:48

that They're within every criticism there

7:50

probably is some level of At

7:52

least a valid point or I

7:54

don't know that too far and

7:56

absolutes there, but You get what

7:59

I'm saying. There are some people

8:01

that are Running feeders and sit

8:03

inside their house and just shoot

8:05

it here when it comes out

8:07

there. They don't learn much about

8:09

it So what if they like

8:11

to do that and it's legal

8:14

have fun? I know a few

8:16

that are very close to me.

8:18

There's also a lot of people

8:20

who are like hunting feeders a

8:22

lot that care a lot about

8:24

the wildlife and also just really

8:26

eat up deer hunting. So like

8:29

that's those two things are separate

8:31

right but I will say that

8:33

for us in some of the

8:35

recent times we have used bait

8:37

as a way to kind of

8:39

centralize hogs and make moves on

8:42

them and do a lot of

8:44

ambush style hunting. But this year,

8:46

we haven't done that quite as

8:48

much. We've done a whole lot

8:50

of spot and stock and just

8:52

like root them up type hog

8:54

hunting. No pun intended. But there

8:57

is a thing that we have

8:59

really started to learn. and that

9:01

is like some of the herd

9:03

dynamic type stuff and how it

9:05

changes through the year. Some of

9:07

the places that hogs really like

9:09

to inhabit depending on the weather,

9:12

time of day, time of season,

9:14

all that stuff. It's pretty unique.

9:16

And if you want to learn

9:18

some of this stuff too, we

9:20

have a booklet that you can

9:22

look at. You've probably heard us

9:25

talk about it before, but it's

9:27

some of Tyler and I's combined

9:29

knowledge about hog hunting, you know,

9:31

between the two of us over

9:33

50 years of experience hunting, thousands

9:35

of hogs. Not that we're experts,

9:37

but we're people with a lot

9:40

of experience. And I was thinking

9:42

about it earlier, and one of

9:44

our really good friends who I

9:46

take this very, with a lot

9:48

of humility, because he also has

9:50

killed a lot of pigs. He

9:53

said that we're doing it. and

9:55

in the heart of hog country.

9:57

Like he said, you can't live

9:59

in a better place to go

10:01

hunt pigs. And so between having

10:03

a lot of encounters and caring

10:05

a lot about learning how to

10:08

shoot things, how to hunt things,

10:10

we've compiled a lot of the

10:12

stuff that we know in that

10:14

booklet down below. It's called Hog

10:16

Hunting Masterclass. And it's something I'm

10:18

real happy with, to tell you

10:20

the truth. I'm glad to be

10:23

able to share that with folks.

10:25

Here recently, Tyler and I. had

10:27

a really unique experience as a

10:29

much different style of video that

10:31

we made. Y'all didn't know we

10:33

make YouTube videos, right? Put them

10:36

out there for the world to

10:38

see. And right now, there's a

10:40

lot of hog hunting videos on

10:42

our YouTube channel. And you go

10:44

watch all of them if you

10:46

haven't. I would say that about

10:48

13% of what is in the

10:51

hog hunting master classes in those

10:53

videos. But if you want the

10:55

other 87%... 86.9% Then you should

10:57

check out the master class and

10:59

maybe you can do a little

11:01

bit of compare and contrast there.

11:03

But the most recent video, a

11:06

little shorter, kind of an easy

11:08

watch, but I got to do

11:10

a thing that I've really wanted

11:12

to do for a really long

11:14

time. I'm trying to think, I

11:16

guess I've done this before a

11:19

couple years ago on public land

11:21

in Texas. We were hunting out

11:23

of a tree and saddles and

11:25

We Saw a sounder of hogs

11:27

and if you don't know there's

11:29

a sounder is what a group

11:31

of hogs is called like a

11:34

murder of crows or a Congress

11:36

of owls or whatever the thing

11:38

that people Congress of owls or

11:40

the Congress of owls or the

11:42

real thing pretty sure it's what's

11:44

good. Maybe right anybody else know

11:46

poll the audience. I think so

11:49

I like that Cheaters have a

11:51

cool one too. I can't remember

11:53

what it is Cheaters. Yeah A

11:55

gamble of cheetahs? Maybe, that sound

11:57

pretty good. The That's that's what

11:59

a group pick I saw group

12:02

pigs from my way off and

12:04

started making some hog noises And

12:06

they came towards us and I

12:08

shot them and I Really thought

12:10

or shot a big boar in

12:12

that group one of the biggest

12:14

boars I've shot with bow That's

12:17

on YouTube as well. Kish didn't

12:19

know you make you two videos.

12:21

Do you know the name of

12:23

that video? He's pretty smoked Greg.

12:25

Oh look or poor. Hold up,

12:27

dude. I got I'm about to

12:30

put that on silent the background

12:32

A parliament. What's a Congress? It's

12:34

probably... Parliament's the same thing as

12:36

a Congress. What's the American version

12:38

of an Al? An Al. No.

12:40

Like a Parliament is like the

12:42

UK deal or a British Shratter.

12:45

And Al is kind of like

12:47

a Harry Potter thing, right? And

12:49

then like America's got an eagle.

12:51

It'd be like a Congress of

12:53

eagles or something like that, right?

12:55

Yeah. That's probably what it is.

12:57

Is it a coalition of cheetahs?

13:00

Cheet a coalition. But in Booker

13:02

Boer, he's pretty smoked rig. I

13:04

shot a boar like 45 yards,

13:06

chopped down a limb on the

13:08

way of my errand still smoked

13:10

the pig, which was pretty cool.

13:13

But that was like... That's a

13:15

big boar too. He was... I

13:17

really wish I'd have saved the

13:19

hit on that pig. That was

13:21

like... One of the first times

13:23

was like, oh, calling... You could

13:25

like do these things like ilk.

13:28

or turkeys. Did you snort them

13:30

in? Uh, I was just doing

13:32

the rear-root thing. Yeah. And so,

13:34

flash forward, I've done that. Hey,

13:36

you almost kill a deer in

13:38

that video too. Yeah. Cool, huh?

13:40

I like it almost part. Yeah.

13:43

See, this is the thing you

13:45

said we put, we put these

13:47

videos on, online for people of

13:49

view. And unfortunately we don't, we

13:51

aren't perfect. And we do things

13:53

that look like idiots sometimes. So

13:56

we don't hide a lot of

13:58

that stuff. So. You

14:00

guys get to see the best

14:02

and the worst of me. That's

14:04

right. I wasn't happy when I

14:06

missed that, dear. Yeah, I could

14:08

tell. It's funny, dude. One very

14:11

cool. So through the years, I

14:13

have used vocalizations on pigs, and

14:15

it's been really effective. And you

14:17

could go back to a couple

14:19

videos, particularly I believe there's a.

14:21

video that Tyler infamously is wearing

14:23

a balloon shirt while stalking pigs.

14:26

I think we did a little

14:28

squeal in action. So here's what

14:30

we used to do. We used

14:32

to like stalk up to a

14:34

big sounder of pigs, shoot one

14:36

of them, and then I would

14:38

immediately go, and a pig would

14:41

just for sure stop somewhere. And

14:43

one of us would have a

14:45

shot. at that hog and oftentimes

14:47

it was a better shot than

14:49

the first one because that pig

14:51

turned right at you and in

14:53

that video in particular you shot

14:55

that pig on a frontal and

14:58

it was devastating yeah that was

15:00

smoked him one of my better

15:02

shots we did a similar thing

15:04

and another time in a something

15:06

I don't think ever aired because

15:08

it was just full of errors

15:10

but I had how do I

15:13

say this nicely I had recently

15:15

had my bow worked on and

15:17

maybe it didn't get done right

15:19

but that doesn't happen often but

15:21

on this case my rest wasn't

15:23

coming all the way up for

15:25

some reason it was contacting something

15:28

and so I just smoked the

15:30

mud in front of this pig

15:32

when I shot a shot one

15:34

at like 15 yards but that

15:36

was another time the squeal worked

15:38

so like hogs for sure use

15:40

their ears a lot and in

15:43

fact We noticed something with pigs

15:45

recently that oftentimes if you are

15:47

using vocal calls at a hog

15:49

they don't always turn their head

15:51

like when you grunt at a

15:53

deer or snortwees a deer? What

15:55

do they do? They usually stop

15:58

turn their head and look at

16:00

you. Turn their head and look

16:02

at you and point their ears

16:04

at you. Well if you'll notice

16:06

a pig's ears are kind of

16:08

positioned a little further around the

16:10

sides of its head and its

16:13

eyes are like we stated earlier

16:15

not its primary point of like

16:17

intake of senses right and so

16:19

a hog if it hears something

16:21

A lot of times what it

16:23

does is just stand still. It

16:25

doesn't move its head, it doesn't

16:27

do anything, and it just tries

16:30

to... get real quiet and listen

16:32

for movement and if you somebody

16:34

remarked on one of the videos

16:36

recently that they liked the phrase

16:38

that hogs being weird that's all

16:40

you can say because they're not

16:42

looking at you yeah they just

16:45

do they stop doing their normal

16:47

body language stuff and they kind

16:49

of tense up you don't say

16:51

don't move he's looking at us

16:53

yeah yeah that being weird but

16:55

they do that sometimes you know

16:57

like especially in sounders right like

17:00

yeah in a sounder there's always

17:02

lots of noise going on usually

17:04

so when there's multiple pigs around

17:06

every once in a while that

17:08

pig will like you know be

17:10

like what was that weird stick

17:12

break but you know as many

17:15

times as there's not a hundred

17:17

in the woods that stick breaking

17:19

is just another hog or whatever

17:21

you know yeah so it's just

17:23

checks and then it's used to

17:25

not having anything happen so to

17:27

be still typically that pig will

17:30

go back to rooting around and

17:32

then just keep moving yeah and

17:34

so We've established that hogs do

17:36

respond positively to hog sounds negatively

17:38

impacting their Lives, but that's okay.

17:40

That's what we're there to do

17:42

But I haven't ever been able

17:45

to really call one in to

17:47

point blank range and just smoke

17:49

it like you would a turkey

17:51

or an elk coming into the

17:53

communication and part of the reason

17:55

I think is because I have

17:57

a really good idea of what?

18:00

And elk wants to hear? I

18:02

kind of think I know what

18:04

turkeys want to hear. I can't

18:06

make those sounds as good because

18:08

I'm not as experienced at it.

18:10

But pigs, again, I need to

18:13

say this with humility too. There's

18:15

not many people who are inundating

18:17

themselves with hogs as much as

18:19

we are. So like you take

18:21

elk and turkey for example. you

18:23

have guys like Corey Jacobson and

18:25

you have guys like Will Primos

18:27

with turkeys and like those dudes

18:29

and you know there's a hundred

18:31

of them in each of those

18:33

categories right but all of these

18:36

people in all of the collective

18:38

of hunters of those animals are

18:40

putting in a lot of effort

18:42

to understand what it is that

18:44

makes a turkey want to come

18:46

in and strut at ten yards

18:48

what it is makes one of

18:50

elk. come in screaming to 20

18:52

yards. There's not really anybody that's

18:54

doing that for pigs. And so

18:56

we're kind of trying to learn

18:59

and pioneer a new thing here.

19:01

Also being limited by the fact

19:03

that we have to work still

19:05

and quite honestly we're not really

19:07

marketing a hog call to sell

19:09

you, you know what I mean?

19:11

So like that makes it where

19:13

it's a little bit different, especially

19:15

when you're using just your voice

19:17

at one, but it's a cool

19:19

thing. And so... One of the

19:22

situations we've looked for is we've

19:24

decided that you can't really call

19:26

out a big group of pigs

19:28

because they're already hearing a lot

19:30

of stuff. But if you could

19:32

find a solo boar by himself,

19:34

there's a chance that if you

19:36

make some really realistic pig noises,

19:38

then you'll be able to do

19:40

just that. And recently, it was

19:42

like... God laid it in her

19:44

lap to be able to try

19:47

to do that. It was sick.

19:49

We had gone out. I'm not

19:51

going to give you the whole

19:53

video because you can go watch

19:55

it anyways, but we'd gone out

19:57

a couple, like a week before.

19:59

It was freezing cold. It was

20:01

that last cold snap that we

20:03

got. And there's a lot of

20:05

water on the ground and we

20:07

couldn't get across to where we

20:10

knew pigs were and we were

20:12

headed back to the four wheelers.

20:14

But it was just not a

20:16

great situation. We were kind of

20:18

out in the open and made

20:20

a lot of noise because there

20:22

was just water everywhere and stuff.

20:24

It just didn't work out. But

20:26

it was close. He was real

20:28

curious. So we were thinking, okay,

20:30

next time we have that opportunity,

20:33

let's take our time and do

20:35

it a little bit better. Well,

20:37

sure enough, we went down there

20:39

like seven or eight days later

20:41

and found a solo boar out

20:43

in the middle of the day

20:45

rooting around or some trees. And

20:47

it just so happens that we

20:49

had just talked right through the

20:51

middle of one of the best

20:53

sow betting areas on the property.

20:56

A place that boars will use,

20:58

like they know that there are

21:00

girls over there and they should

21:02

go check on it from time

21:04

to time. And it just so

21:06

happens that boar would not have

21:08

a way to get down wind

21:10

of us without giving one of

21:12

us a shot. And it just

21:14

laid out perfectly. We were able

21:16

to make a loop down. get

21:19

within like, I don't know, there's

21:21

like some rise to the terrain.

21:23

He was just on the other

21:25

side of a little hill like

21:27

up on top. He's probably 120

21:29

yards away. It wasn't super windy

21:31

so he could hear us and

21:33

we could see the very top

21:35

of his back from where we'd

21:37

kind of set up and sure

21:39

enough, as soon as I started

21:42

making some rut rut ruts and

21:44

some squeals and kicking the leaves

21:46

around a little bit like some

21:48

pigs that were... eating around trying

21:50

to find acorns and stuff. I

21:52

mean he went from... not interested

21:54

to somewhat interested to the point

21:56

where he was peeing on himself

21:58

and frothing at the mouth that

22:00

he was so excited to come

22:02

check out what was going on.

22:04

Yeah, it was, I mean I

22:07

got to watch all this from

22:09

probably similar distance, watched the whole

22:11

thing happen in parallel or perpendicular

22:13

I guess you'd say from 120

22:15

yards or whatever as well and

22:17

could hear you and everything and

22:19

what was cool for me is

22:21

it was a little more suspenseful

22:23

for me than even the viewer

22:25

gets to watch it on video

22:27

because the viewer finds out that

22:30

you know that you can see

22:32

the pig I did not know

22:34

you could see the pig I

22:36

thought you just went down there

22:38

in the woods got you know

22:40

looked at the map and just

22:42

started calling so when you were

22:44

like squealing stuff like the first

22:46

time you squealed I saw the

22:48

pig kind of like not pay

22:50

much attention. I think then squeal

22:53

again and he kind of like

22:55

lifts his head up and I'm

22:57

like oh he heard it for

22:59

sure. And then he kind of

23:01

acts like you know I don't

23:03

really want to do much with

23:05

that I'm just going to hang

23:07

out and then I think it

23:09

was like the third squeal or

23:11

maybe but before that point he

23:13

started mosey in your way and

23:16

eventually kind of got just on

23:18

a steady walk and I was

23:20

like sitting there thinking like I

23:22

don't know if he's going to

23:24

just like... if he can see

23:26

that thing I was like I

23:28

don't know if he can see

23:30

it and all of a sudden

23:32

thinking that maybe you might just

23:34

squeal and he might be at

23:36

like 30 yards and it might

23:39

freak him out or something you

23:41

know so like a whole time

23:43

it was pretty suspenseful for me

23:45

yeah oh that from about 80

23:47

yards on I was just like

23:49

oh here he comes and there's

23:51

no like it has to walk

23:53

across open pasture to get to

23:55

us and it's kind of like

23:57

almost like a turkey strut in

23:59

his way in or something like

24:02

a It's like if you went

24:04

re re but used like the

24:06

top of your esophagus but not

24:08

the back of your mouth and

24:10

you're going and it's like so

24:12

Rower your esophagus kind of hits

24:14

your mouth is where you want

24:16

that noise and you're constricting it

24:18

and it's think about like you're

24:20

going to make a squealing tire

24:22

sound like your little kid making

24:24

having a car right now or

24:27

whatever. For the longest time I

24:29

couldn't tell if you were exhaling

24:31

or inhaling on that next hill.

24:33

Yeah. I think. I don't really

24:35

know what I'm doing. What am

24:37

I going to enter out? This

24:39

is a remake of the media

24:41

podcast where they made you do

24:43

that. It's so natural until you

24:45

have to think about it. It

24:49

is hold on a second.

24:51

See, this is why I

24:53

was so confused. Even you're

24:55

confused. It's like I am...

24:57

I'm breathing out in at

24:59

the same time of your

25:01

Jack Black. Inward singing. Yeah.

25:03

Inward singing. What? It is,

25:05

it's an inhale. But it's

25:07

not... I'm not really inhaling

25:10

with my... which this is

25:12

like a like smoking a

25:14

cigar. It's a weird way

25:16

of describing it. But I

25:18

just understand that you don't

25:20

like breathe them into your

25:22

lungs normally, right? It's like

25:24

you don't, I'm not filling

25:26

my lungs with air, but

25:28

I'm pulling that air through

25:30

my throat. It's like a

25:32

diaphragm deal, but an opposite

25:34

sense of singing or whatever.

25:36

Yes, exactly. Yeah, it's like

25:38

I'm using my diaphragm to

25:40

make that noise. Did you

25:42

got that belly control, man?

25:45

Well. Not as good

25:47

as a pair of Lulu lemons

25:49

or anything, but I can I

25:51

can do that don't control pretty

25:53

good But yeah, I think Just

25:55

watch the video that's good be

25:58

the best way for you to

26:00

learn how to do that. Because

26:02

it's hard for me to make

26:04

the noise on this microphone because

26:06

it'll make a really bad noise.

26:09

You know we have a mutual

26:11

friend his name is Slade who's

26:13

listened to this podcast years ago

26:15

and you were a little more

26:17

spontaneous spontaneous however you say

26:19

that. Yeah that sounds good.

26:22

Back then and you hit one

26:24

of them hog calls. just randomly and

26:26

the next week when that came out

26:28

was late texting me he said tell

26:31

Casey if you ever makes that noise

26:33

again I will not listen to the

26:35

fire gas. So I jumped out of

26:37

my out of my seat in my

26:39

trip my car. The one of the

26:41

things though if you're want to mess

26:44

around with this for sure don't

26:46

do it when there's like crazy

26:48

people in the woods with guns that

26:50

might shoot you but the best thing

26:52

that I've learned it is with elk.

26:54

and turkeys too. Like anything

26:57

that you're trying to imitate,

26:59

don't listen to people do

27:01

it, listen to the animals

27:04

do it. Because, I mean,

27:06

you can probably tell this

27:08

from a duck collar's

27:10

perspective, right? Yeah. Tell us

27:13

about that. Oh, well, I mean,

27:15

you probably got to kind of

27:17

witness it over the course of

27:19

two days too, like, you start

27:21

to... I mean, you want it

27:24

to sound. To me, like when

27:26

I hear a bird, I want

27:28

to do what they're doing. And

27:30

I don't know if that's like

27:32

necessarily proper technique, but I'm always

27:35

like, even if I'm doing it,

27:37

even if they don't like that,

27:39

because say that's something they do

27:42

more when they fly, then when

27:44

they're on the water, at least

27:46

I'm learning some noises. in different

27:48

situations and you're just constantly

27:50

learning on stuff like this

27:53

but at the end of the day

27:55

like you know there's just a way like one

27:57

thing we do you know when we go to

27:59

Arkansas we get to be around a

28:01

lot of ducks and ones that are

28:04

on the water. And while you don't

28:06

get to practice, you get to hear

28:08

them. And the more you hear them,

28:11

the easier it is just to rip

28:13

that sound off. And that's, I mean,

28:15

with duck hunting, that's just a big

28:17

part of it. And there's a lot

28:20

of air control in duck hunt and

28:22

duck on too, you know, so it's

28:24

got a similar thing. I just pulled

28:27

this up here. In Spanish 3, we

28:29

had to learn a lot about art.

28:31

because of Pablo Picasso and a lot

28:34

of others and like different styles of

28:36

art. And there's like a difference in,

28:38

I don't remember the Spanish words, realissimo,

28:40

which meant like realistic art and then

28:43

impressionissimo, which would be impressionistic like this

28:45

or impressionism, and then all this other

28:47

stuff too, right? Conceptual expressionism, surrealism, I

28:50

don't know what favism is, but it

28:52

kind of looks like Picasso type stuff.

28:54

And so within all that, it's all

28:57

still considered art, right? And you can

28:59

convey a message no matter if it

29:01

looks like graffiti or if it looks

29:03

like just a picture, right? I mean,

29:06

photography is a version of art, right?

29:08

And so you go from the most

29:10

realistic to the least realistic, and it

29:13

all still conveys a thought and an

29:15

emotion, whatever the case may be. So

29:17

there's this thing in animal calls, like

29:20

what you're talking about with the duck

29:22

stuff. exactly like the animal and it

29:24

might not work as good as if

29:26

you sound nothing like a real one

29:29

but an exaggerated version of a real

29:31

one yeah you get what I'm saying

29:33

so the inverse of that you could

29:36

be an extra quiet hen turkey yeah

29:38

it's like you might could say that

29:40

Jim Kerry acts in hyperbole a lot

29:42

and so people don't actually behaved that

29:45

way, like hardly ever. But when you

29:47

watch him act in an Ace Ventura

29:49

movie, you're like that's a real person

29:52

It's just like I haven't seen this

29:54

person yet in my life. You know

29:56

what I mean? You're like this is

29:59

this is insane You know, but it's

30:01

still you like he conveys that there's

30:03

actually a person out there that believes

30:05

he is like the pet detective Yeah,

30:08

for sure and so my point in

30:10

that is to is to say that

30:12

you go out listen to the real

30:15

animals because here's what happens if you

30:17

just listen to people make noises people

30:19

aren't the animals so you don't know

30:22

if they're doing that thing I'm telling

30:24

you about or if they're making like

30:26

a very strict impersonation of the animal

30:28

like you go to the world champion

30:31

duck call thing you're gonna have a

30:33

27-note hell call or whatever right you

30:35

don't hear that anything this week though

30:38

I was hearing we were out crop

30:40

provision I was hearing blue wings I

30:42

think I saw some yeah I've been

30:45

seeing quite a few but they do

30:47

like that sounds like they're laughing at

30:49

you yeah they do that is a

30:51

short quick laugh yeah yeah yeah it's

30:54

pretty cool yeah their their blue wings

30:56

are awesome yeah they're pretty and they're

30:58

fast but anyways back to that thought

31:01

go get around pigs and if you

31:03

have the liberty to do so spend

31:05

a little time listening to what they're

31:08

doing. Get in close, bow hunting helps

31:10

you do this, because you can't just

31:12

go in their guns blazing, right? I

31:14

mean, one of the days that I

31:17

can think about even recently is there's

31:19

a video on here where you and

31:21

I both shot pigs and you were

31:24

within like 20 yards of pigs for

31:26

about two hours. And they were making

31:28

a ton of noises. Yeah, and this

31:31

is the thing, I had never heard

31:33

them do that. Like weird noises. Like

31:35

weird noises. And so that's like what

31:37

kind of what kind of what kind

31:40

of what kind of what you're saying

31:42

like what kind of what you're saying

31:44

like, like, like, like, like, kind of

31:47

what kind of what kind of what

31:49

you're saying like, like, like, like, like,

31:51

like, like, like, like, kind of what

31:54

kind of what kind of what kind

31:56

of what kind of what kind of

31:58

what kind of what you're saying like,

32:00

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

32:03

like, like, like There's a noise that

32:05

a pig makes a lot, and then

32:07

there's noises that you might not ever

32:10

hear that they make. So like... Tell

32:12

you, when you hear, that's bad. That

32:14

means that one of them is haunting

32:16

you. It is done putting up with

32:19

you. Yeah. But I think of this,

32:21

like you think you talk about this

32:23

in rattling deer a lot. And like

32:26

to me there's some sort of that

32:28

hyperbole I was talking about earlier that

32:30

can be added into. So just like

32:33

a exaggerated amount. How would you probably

32:35

have better like English description of what

32:37

it is? But it's like exaggeration essentially.

32:39

It's like for the sake of making

32:42

a point go over. in a broader

32:44

term. It's like I killed every hog

32:46

in the bottom and really what you'd

32:49

mean is you killed like five or

32:51

six which is crazy. And it felt

32:53

like all. Yeah. And I think that

32:56

there's there's some sort of that that

32:58

can be added in like again like

33:00

what you like to think of is

33:02

or what you talk about and I

33:05

think of right now is like in

33:07

open country sometimes you'll just hit them

33:09

and together as hard as you possibly

33:12

can. and again it may not be

33:14

the most realistic sound but it grabs

33:16

the attention and then you can make

33:19

more realistic sounds when it gets closer

33:21

right it's the same thing with ducks

33:23

too like you don't really use a

33:25

hill call when they're cupped and they're

33:28

at you know 45 yards coming in

33:30

backpedaling yeah it would be bad thing

33:32

to do usually I mean like the

33:35

way that I keep like you'll see

33:37

this we've video some stuff this year

33:39

some duck hunting stuff but the way

33:42

that you like like we were on

33:44

a pretty big place that had a

33:46

lot of flooded timber and different brush

33:48

and stuff like that and that if

33:51

ducks were trying to land a hundred

33:53

fifteen yards from us I was probably

33:55

gonna hell call them and try to

33:58

keep them up so they'd come through

34:00

so I went through the timber and

34:02

I don't know if it ever worked

34:05

but it could yeah it just didn't

34:07

work in those instances but like it's

34:09

a thing yeah so I mean like

34:11

again what you say and how you

34:14

do it is important when they're close

34:16

but it just still feels better Knowing

34:18

that you didn't let him land at

34:21

least. Yeah, they didn't get away with

34:23

that. Yeah, because then they're just going

34:25

to be over there just eyeing you

34:28

on the water and you're just mad

34:30

about it. But I do think like

34:32

there is, and again, like you said,

34:34

like Being around animals in the wild

34:37

man is like a huge thing for

34:39

learning. This is why I've always been

34:41

a proponent of hunting feeders. Because I

34:44

learned so much early on by hunting

34:46

feeders that I would, if I was

34:48

just sitting in the woods waiting on

34:50

a deer to pass by through a

34:53

funnel. I mean, even when you shoot

34:55

a buck in a funnel, your time

34:57

is so limited. Oh my gosh. It

35:00

is a moment of anxiety. Yeah. Because

35:02

you, a lot of times in e-sexes,

35:04

especially. You're going to look up or

35:07

hear him first because it's so thick.

35:09

Deer's suddenly at 50 yards. You have

35:11

to get your bow in your hand

35:13

without him seeing you and get drawn

35:16

and make the shot all the time

35:18

it takes from the pass through there

35:20

because guess what? He's not coming there

35:23

to hang out. Yeah, by your eye

35:25

patch. Yeah. Might as put that on

35:27

too. But I do think that I

35:30

do think that. There's a lot to

35:32

be learned by spending time in close

35:34

range with animals. There's lots of vocalizations

35:36

that you don't hear at long range.

35:39

That's what I was saying about the

35:41

pigs though is that if you press

35:43

one of those like pre-recorded hog sound

35:46

things to call in pigs, a lot

35:48

of times it just sounds like a

35:50

bunch of 40 pound hogs in a

35:53

feed trough going at it. wild boars

35:55

suffering, you know, like it's just, which

35:57

is a, it's a joke, but, um,

35:59

so they, what realistically happens, especially, and

36:02

this is why the call I think

36:04

works on, on boars, is whenever you

36:06

end up with a sow that has

36:09

piglets. Those piglets are fighting and tussling

36:11

around and then they're all rooting for

36:13

stuff and a lot of times they'll

36:16

be trying to get on a teat

36:18

too and fighting over that and that's

36:20

when you hear like doing all that

36:22

kind of stuff and then they'll go

36:25

back to doing all that. Almost like...

36:27

a gadwall in the sky. That's almost

36:29

the same exact sound. That's the sound

36:32

I make a lot of times when

36:34

I try to see, because I haven't

36:36

figured out the squeal very well. I

36:39

did hit one good squeal, and I

36:41

think it's on video. I think it's

36:43

like this, well, like third or fourth

36:45

video. Might have been on video at

36:48

least, right? Yeah, you never know with

36:50

coffee, but no, it probably is. I

36:52

have a few more minutes here. And

36:55

I have a few more minutes here.

36:57

Go watch that video, if you haven't.

36:59

Yeah, for sure. It's an awesome video.

37:02

Definitely worth watching. There's some things to

37:04

be learned, even just being in the

37:06

presence of wild animals on video, on

37:08

our video. So if you're interested in

37:11

doing that kind of stuff, I mean

37:13

this stuff is fun. I mean people

37:15

have asked us questions about traveling to

37:18

hunt these things. Like hey, where do

37:20

I do? Where do I start? If

37:22

I'm going to come to Texas and

37:24

hunt hogs, you can go. it's the

37:27

south you know in a lot of

37:29

places and but if you come to

37:31

Texas I mean you just gonna have

37:34

a little less public land per capita

37:36

to deal with probably so maybe getting

37:38

permission or whatever and that kind of

37:41

like segues us right into the same

37:43

same note but the idea of traveling

37:45

to deer hunt a little bit and

37:47

I mean some of the things that

37:50

you know we wanted to talk about

37:52

real briefly is like now is kind

37:54

of the time to think about some

37:57

of that stuff start thinking about what

37:59

you might do and I think we'll

38:01

probably we may do a whole podcast

38:04

on that here in the in the

38:06

near future just kind of like the

38:08

idea of of traveling what it takes

38:10

to pull it off some things that

38:13

you may not have thought about and

38:15

what we take what we take like

38:17

on the trip, what we take in

38:20

a bag when we go out, how

38:22

we scout, all kinds of stuff. And

38:24

so we'll go through like that in

38:27

some podcast at some point. But in

38:29

the meantime, if you want to take,

38:31

there's a same thing as the hog

38:33

hunting. master class, we have the same

38:36

deal kind of deal for, it's like

38:38

a white tail version of it, but

38:40

it's a little bit more like, here's

38:43

your shortcut to finding deer. And it's

38:45

the same kind of method we use

38:47

when we go out of state if

38:50

you want to look at that. It's

38:52

also handy because it fits right on

38:54

your phone when you download it. And

38:56

you can take it into the woods

38:59

with you. You can be sitting in

39:01

the stand, not seeing deer and go,

39:03

what can I change and look through

39:06

that handbook or whatever, or whatever, essentially.

39:08

hopefully it spurs an idea that gives

39:10

you some idea to change. So we'll

39:13

do a little bit more of that

39:15

kind of stuff, that outlining in all

39:17

that here in the near future. But

39:19

in the meantime, Casey, you've been shooting

39:22

a 410 grain era? Four hundred and

39:24

ten or four and eleven, depending on

39:26

the air. Depending on the broadhead, yeah.

39:29

So I have six pigs this spring.

39:31

That sounds right to me. I'm not

39:33

exactly sure. Maybe more, maybe less. Six.

39:36

But all of them, I think, no,

39:38

one of them was with a 480

39:40

grand era. But no, I've killed six

39:42

things with that 410 grand era. That's

39:45

what it is. In the past couple

39:47

months, between deer, hogs, Neil Guy, and

39:49

have not had... a negative experience with

39:52

the light air yet. Sick. Which I'm

39:54

blown away at that. Because if you

39:56

listen to the podcast for a long

39:59

time, you know that that's not how

40:01

I used to think. And I think

40:03

it has a lot to do broadhead

40:05

choice. And shot placement. I think that

40:08

if you took it too hard to

40:10

the shoulder, it's not going to go

40:12

well for you on that. Yeah. But

40:15

like. a fast arrow is hitting an

40:17

animal really really fast compared to the

40:19

slow arrow okay and so it has

40:21

like some benefits. Your energy doesn't change.

40:24

Energy is what your bow produces. It's

40:26

not what your arrow, like the bow

40:28

transfers the energy to the arrow, so

40:31

heavy light doesn't matter. Momentum does change

40:33

and momentum is a good thing. It

40:35

helps you with any time your projectile

40:38

encounters other things, whether it be the

40:40

body of an animal, stuff in the

40:42

way, whatever the case may be. the

40:44

broadhead choice, right, the wound channel? Yeah,

40:47

as far as like friction, the stuff

40:49

you hit or whatever, yeah, and maybe

40:51

even like number of veins or something

40:54

like that, probably minimal, right? So, but

40:56

broadhead choice being a big one. So,

40:58

I guess you're saying this, but like,

41:01

you're shooting a, what, small to medium,

41:03

what would you call it? That fixed

41:05

plate, actually, what you'd call a small

41:07

fixed play. Yeah. It's an eighth of

41:10

an inch from being... the edge of

41:12

legality. So it's an inch. It's one

41:14

inch by one inch. And it's four

41:17

blade? Like legit four blade, not like

41:19

a two blade with bleeders. Yeah, it's,

41:21

yeah, they stick out a half inch

41:24

on each side on four different spots.

41:26

And I've shot a two blade mechanical

41:28

through it too and had some pretty

41:30

good results from that as well. Had

41:33

a weird one the other day. killed

41:35

the pig, it just was, you'll see

41:37

them video. But yeah, as far as

41:40

like the actual arrow weight being an

41:42

issue, I haven't had a problem. And

41:44

do let me tell you the amount

41:47

of like alleviating of stress that comes

41:49

from having pigs move around so much

41:51

at like 20 to 30 yards whenever

41:53

you don't have to worry about the

41:56

change in the range is just, yeah.

41:58

It's such a relief. I can't tell

42:00

you when I was shooting like... 580

42:03

grains or whatever I used to shoot

42:05

which is heavy for me some people

42:07

would say it's kind of heavy but

42:10

that heavy it was really 700 grain

42:12

you know like you know it is

42:14

I'll tell you this if you range

42:16

a hog at 23 and he ends

42:19

up at 27 you're about you're gonna

42:21

miss that thing with 580 grains I

42:23

mean it's it's it's gonna it's gonna

42:26

change your impact a lot at least

42:28

and it's gonna be the shot that

42:30

you thought it was If I have

42:33

410 grains, it doesn't matter to me

42:35

if that hog is a 23 or

42:37

27. I'm shooting. And he's done. It

42:39

doesn't matter. And so I like it

42:42

a lot. And that's like, you know,

42:44

I've about decided that like your actual

42:46

arrow choice doesn't matter. You want something

42:49

that's strong. You want something that you

42:51

can trust the components on. You want

42:53

something that you like the people that

42:55

make it. You know, whatever the case

42:58

may be, but the weight is the

43:00

thing that we're all thinking about, right?

43:02

And I just think that I'm not

43:05

going to just say it's the way

43:07

to do it, but it's the way

43:09

I'm going to do it right now.

43:12

What if I shot my broadhead that

43:14

I like so much on your arrow?

43:16

Would that, how do you feel about

43:18

that? Is that too big of a

43:21

mechanical for that weight? Probably.

43:24

Because here's what I think. I think

43:26

that on a big Midwestern deer, there's

43:28

a chance at that weight with that

43:31

big of a mechanical being a front

43:33

deploy, especially that there's a world where

43:35

if you square up a rib, you

43:38

don't get through to the second lung.

43:40

Even on a broadside shot. And I

43:42

wouldn't want that to happen. So to

43:44

me, my thoughts are just... Go down

43:47

and broad hit size a little bit

43:49

or go to like a rear deploy

43:51

That way you're not losing as much

43:54

energy Man, I sure have like the

43:56

results for the most part on what

43:58

I shoot currently so it'd be hard

44:01

for me to change up but I

44:03

would like to shoot a lighter era

44:05

for the reasons that you mentioned I

44:07

would love that I've always wanted to

44:10

but you know it's that broadhead combination

44:12

when it hits right yeah I mean

44:14

it's gonna get two holes and it's

44:17

a shot a pig with it the

44:19

other day right up tucked it right

44:21

up next to shoulder and it The

44:23

pig literally was 25 yards and I

44:26

bet he ran 15. Yeah. Oh, it's

44:28

sick. I have some 540 grand areas

44:30

at the house with those broadheads on

44:33

them and I might take that bow

44:35

next time. It's like it's fun to.

44:37

It's like throwing a hatchet. There is

44:40

a thing. Oh, you got that old

44:42

rage thing. He's the waxed through. Yeah,

44:44

that was their thing. Yeah. marketing deal,

44:46

wouldn't it. It does feel like it

44:49

though, man. You know what really feels

44:51

good is to know. when you go

44:53

hunting, no matter what direction the animal

44:56

is turned, you can just send your

44:58

arrow completely through the animal and you're

45:00

going to kill it. Yeah. That feels

45:02

really good, but not always necessary. That

45:05

idea helped me on that deer on

45:07

the end over there at Illinois Buck,

45:09

just knowing, like I was shooting a

45:12

much heavier arrow, still, well not much,

45:14

but I think I should like 5.30,

45:16

and I had a two blade, well-made

45:19

broad head, so going to eat a

45:21

lot of penetration, right. and I mean

45:23

I shot that deer right over the

45:25

top of shoulder and I was you

45:28

know not super scared to hit the

45:30

bone there because of what I was

45:32

shooting and I'd be a little more

45:35

scared to that. I didn't hit it

45:37

but if I would have I think

45:39

I would have still been potentially okay

45:42

you know but there is there is

45:44

a spot there are spots on the

45:46

deer that you can hit with a

45:48

big heavy setup and it not you

45:51

not find a deer. Two words, ranch

45:53

furry. Oh, comment that on there. And

45:55

it's like, oh, by the way. I'm

45:58

shyly sitting 600 degrees. A ranch fair

46:00

set up here, okay, yes, and that's

46:02

just what happened. So, there's a thing

46:04

your dad coined, but it's that you

46:07

only gonna kill is me and Big

46:09

Deer's God want you to. And so,

46:11

that doesn't alleviate you from a responsibility

46:14

for trying to find the best way

46:16

to do it, but at the same

46:18

time, you have to be able to

46:21

shake the dust off your feet. as

46:23

they say, whenever something doesn't go as

46:25

good as you would like to do.

46:27

The question will never fully be answered.

46:30

You can only just have confidence

46:32

in what you're shooting. You know

46:34

what I mean? That's why you

46:36

gotta shoot a lot. But it

46:38

doesn't mean that it's better for

46:40

everybody than any other setup. Yeah.

46:42

Yeah, I think that's a great

46:45

thing to maybe wrap on. And

46:47

I don't mean like to do, do,

46:49

but what I do mean is, man, we

46:51

can't. preach kindness enough. I know we

46:53

haven't been raging too much on here,

46:55

but it's just a thing to even

46:57

remind yourself of. It's just, if you see

47:00

somebody doing it differently than you,

47:02

it's okay to have those differences and

47:04

it's okay to talk about it, but

47:06

they're not dumb for doing it that

47:08

way. They have a whole series of

47:10

experiences in their life or a lack

47:12

thereof that have led them to this

47:15

position and if you feel compelled to

47:17

do something about it, help educate and

47:19

mentor. And if you're unable to do

47:21

that, Just let somebody do what

47:23

they do and learn it man.

47:25

Just don't waste your time Just

47:28

arguing on the internet.

47:30

That's right and just being

47:32

the rear end on the

47:34

internet You know like sarcasm

47:36

doesn't go very far guys. So

47:39

if you ever have a dissenting

47:41

view of something If you're gonna

47:43

post or comment just sarcasm

47:46

stay away from it because it

47:48

doesn't do what you what to do unless

47:51

you just want to argue. If you want

47:53

some real change about anything on one-on-one approach

47:55

is about for sure. Social media is the

47:57

worst place to do it. Yeah for sure.

47:59

I mean say hey Let's meet up

48:01

for coffee, right? I mean, that

48:03

would be the way to do

48:05

it. Except for Tyler, he's not

48:08

going to meet you for coffee.

48:10

No, I won't. I saw a

48:12

guy spearfish at GT last night

48:15

and people were raging him.

48:17

And he like was going to

48:19

take it and eat it, I'm sure,

48:21

and eat it, I'm sure. Yeah. A

48:24

lot of them at least. So yeah,

48:26

I don't know. I don't know. Good

48:28

evening. It is, I've had one.

48:30

Yeah, it's awesome. Did you do

48:32

sashimi on it? No, they just,

48:34

I mean, it was raw on

48:36

the inside, but I could get

48:38

like a seared tuna almost, I

48:40

mean, it was, yeah. I like

48:42

that kind of stuff. Guys, I

48:44

don't even do a lot of

48:46

hunting talking, but it's fishing season.

48:48

So if you think you ought

48:50

to get out there and win

48:53

a hook instead of trying to,

48:55

I know you northern folks are.

48:57

maybe a little envious of the weather

48:59

we've had, but I think y'all've had a good

49:01

little stand up there too. So get after it,

49:03

get out there, have some fun, and remember, this

49:05

is your element, a little bit.