0:01

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0:05

Tom Keogh: marketing you will ever get. Tom Keogh: If somebody recommends a product to you

0:10

Tom Keogh: that you know and trust, you will then buy

0:12

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0:16

Tom Keogh: started our brand to roll.

0:24

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0:26

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0:30

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0:32

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0:34

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0:37

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0:40

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0:45

Gary Fox: preparing to launch into new markets.

0:48

Gary Fox: Enterprise Ireland is there for all of

0:50

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0:54

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0:56

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1:01

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1:04

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2:32

Gary Fox: Welcome everybody, welcome to the

2:34

Gary Fox: Entrepreneur Experiment Live. Gary Fox: Thanks to the local enterprise offices here

2:37

Gary Fox: in the Mason, I've got two very esteemed

2:39

Gary Fox: guests joining me today. Gary Fox: We have Tom from Kiosk Farm and Noreen from

2:44

Gary Fox: Advanced Cosmetics, so please give them a Gary Fox: round of applause. Gary Fox: Thank you very much, tom.

2:52

Gary Fox: We'll start with you. Tom Keogh: What is Kiehl's Farm?

2:56

Tom Keogh: What is Kiehl's Farm? Tom Keogh: Kiehl's Farm is this wonderful

2:59

Tom Keogh: Disneyland-like place on the beautiful

3:02

Tom Keogh: green fields of Ireland, just in North

3:05

Tom Keogh: County Dublin. Tom Keogh: I suppose it's a farm.

3:10

Tom Keogh: We've been there as a family for about 200

3:12

Tom Keogh: years. Tom Keogh: The earliest document I found when I

3:15

Tom Keogh: started doing a bit of digging was a tides

3:18

Tom Keogh: or a land tax paid to the local church back Tom Keogh: in 1833 by a Thomas and Catherine Keogh

3:23

Tom Keogh: same name as myself on the family farm Tom Keogh: where it is today.

3:26

Tom Keogh: So we've been there a while and market

3:30

Tom Keogh: gardening was our thing. Tom Keogh: So if you could grow it in the Irish

3:35

Tom Keogh: climate, we've tried to grow it. Tom Keogh: We've tried to sell it in the Dublin

3:38

Tom Keogh: markets and make some money from it, and Tom Keogh: that's basically what my family have done

3:40

Tom Keogh: for multiple generations make some money Tom Keogh: from it, and that's basically what my Tom Keogh: family have done for multiple generations.

3:46

Tom Keogh: And obviously today people know us for more

3:50

Tom Keogh: than just fresh produce. Tom Keogh: They know us for a snack food brand as well,

3:53

Tom Keogh: which is sold in Ireland but also in 20

3:56

Tom Keogh: countries around the world. Gary Fox: What was the change?

4:00

Gary Fox: Because to go from market gardening to a

4:02

Gary Fox: brand that's global. Gary Fox: I think that's the secret sauce everyone's

4:05

Gary Fox: trying to do is what prompted that change

4:09

Gary Fox: and in necessity yeah, necessity prompted

4:12

Gary Fox: that. Tom Keogh: So. Tom Keogh: So I suppose if you look at the what has

4:16

Tom Keogh: happened in that whole fresh produce market

4:18

Tom Keogh: gardening area in Ireland since since I

4:21

Tom Keogh: kind of came into the business, which was Tom Keogh: around the year 2000, is that basically one

4:29

Tom Keogh: of the key drivers was the corner shops Tom Keogh: have disappeared. Tom Keogh: So we used to have all the corner shops

4:32

Tom Keogh: around Ireland under family names, family

4:35

Tom Keogh: run, et cetera. Tom Keogh: They've all disappeared and they've been

4:38

Tom Keogh: replaced by Spars, centras, mace, londis.

4:43

Tom Keogh: These are all symbol groups that in actual

4:46

Tom Keogh: fact have one single sourcing office behind

4:49

Tom Keogh: them. Tom Keogh: So what happened there was that as the

4:55

Tom Keogh: corner shops started to migrate to the

4:57

Tom Keogh: symbol groups, the buying went from the

5:00

Tom Keogh: local markets to a central office with one

5:04

Tom Keogh: central distribution center. Tom Keogh: So instead of dealing with maybe 20

5:09

Tom Keogh: wholesalers in a market which is my father

5:11

Tom Keogh: and my grandfather used to do on a four

5:14

Tom Keogh: o'clock on a Tuesday morning, we all of a

5:17

Tom Keogh: sudden we had one person and that one

5:19

Tom Keogh: person was making purchasing decisions for Tom Keogh: all those stores, which forced us to

5:24

Tom Keogh: obviously rethink our approach. Tom Keogh: And I suppose when I came into the business

5:29

Tom Keogh: I could see that we had amazing quality.

5:33

Tom Keogh: There was a fantastic culture in the Tom Keogh: business for quality which my family had

5:37

Tom Keogh: built up for generations. Tom Keogh: You know really, really high quality

5:40

Tom Keogh: produce and we were known for that. Tom Keogh: But the problem was that we had no

5:46

Tom Keogh: connection with the end consumer because it

5:48

Tom Keogh: wasn't branded. Tom Keogh: And that was probably one of the first

5:51

Tom Keogh: things that I did when I came into the Tom Keogh: business was establish that brand and make

5:56

Tom Keogh: that connection, which was probably the

5:58

Tom Keogh: first step along the journey of where we've

6:00

Tom Keogh: got to today. Gary Fox: Brilliant. Gary Fox: Thanks for the overview.

6:03

Gary Fox: Noreen Advanced Cosmetics what is it?

6:07

Noreen Hackett: Advanced Cosmetics is an end-to-end Noreen Hackett: contract manufacturer for cosmetic products.

6:12

Noreen Hackett: So what it is in a nutshell really is we

6:16

Noreen Hackett: take an idea or a concept, we develop it

6:20

Noreen Hackett: into a product, we test it and we produce

6:24

Noreen Hackett: it, manufacture it, fill it, label it, code

6:28

Noreen Hackett: it, pack it and palletize it and ship it

6:30

Noreen Hackett: worldwide. Noreen Hackett: Okay nice and brief succinct.

6:34

Gary Fox: Tell me a bit more, though, when you say, Gary Fox: like are we seeing advanced cosmetics

6:38

Gary Fox: products on the shelf under your own brand,

6:41

Gary Fox: or is it under other people's brands, or Gary Fox: how does it work? Noreen Hackett: No, so we work for 37 different brands at

6:46

Noreen Hackett: the moment and what we do is we take a

6:49

Noreen Hackett: concept or initial idea, we work with the

6:52

Noreen Hackett: brand to develop a product, and once the

6:57

Noreen Hackett: product is developed, then it goes through

6:59

Noreen Hackett: all of the testing process and we will hand

7:04

Noreen Hackett: it over to the brand then to start doing Noreen Hackett: their branding on it and think up USPs on

7:10

Noreen Hackett: it, and we manufacture it then for them.

7:13

Noreen Hackett: So what you see is the idea thought through

7:16

Noreen Hackett: and the brand is the one that sells it on

7:19

Noreen Hackett: the market. Gary Fox: Okay, so the brand can come to you and go.

7:22

Gary Fox: We need a new type of like what would be a

7:25

Gary Fox: big product. Gary Fox: You don't have to name the brand, but what

7:27

Gary Fox: kind? Gary Fox: Of product would be big. Noreen Hackett: Yeah, so we work on anything from skincare

7:31

Noreen Hackett: to body care, to perfumery, to self-tanning

7:33

Noreen Hackett: products. Noreen Hackett: So they could come to us and say well, we

7:36

Noreen Hackett: want a self-tanning mousse, we want it to

7:38

Noreen Hackett: do, we want it to moisturize and hydrate

7:40

Noreen Hackett: along with the self-tanning properties and

7:44

Noreen Hackett: hydrate and along with the self-turning Noreen Hackett: properties. Noreen Hackett: And so we would go into the lab and we

7:47

Noreen Hackett: would come up with unique selling points to Noreen Hackett: put different materials that are innovative

7:51

Noreen Hackett: into the product so that they can sell in

7:53

Noreen Hackett: an increasingly competitive market. Noreen Hackett: And once we develop it, then we can bring

7:58

Noreen Hackett: it into full production. Gary Fox: Okay, that's really interesting.

8:01

Gary Fox: I think a lot of people wouldn't know that, Gary Fox: in terms of they just think the brand makes

8:03

Gary Fox: the product and that's it. Gary Fox: You know they come up with this idea, but

8:06

Gary Fox: it's actually you behind the scenes. Gary Fox: How did you get into that?

8:25

Noreen Hackett: like everyone, when you do chemistry you Noreen Hackett: probably think you want to get into a big Noreen Hackett: pharma company and change the world.

8:28

Noreen Hackett: And I thought the same and I did an Noreen Hackett: interview with a big biopharma company and

8:31

Noreen Hackett: didn't get it and it was a bit Noreen Hackett: disappointing at the time.

8:34

Noreen Hackett: But then my second interview was with a

8:36

Noreen Hackett: cosmetic company in, based in Mayo as well,

8:40

Noreen Hackett: and at the time it was one of the largest Noreen Hackett: manufacturing companies in Ireland and did

8:45

Noreen Hackett: the interview, loved it and got taken on

8:47

Noreen Hackett: for six months on the work placement and

8:50

Noreen Hackett: then eventually kept on for the summer and

8:54

Noreen Hackett: then when I finished my fourth year of

8:56

Noreen Hackett: college I got a phone call to come on board

8:58

Noreen Hackett: for a full time position in that

9:01

Noreen Hackett: manufacturing company because the chemist

9:03

Noreen Hackett: was leaving in that manufacturing company. Noreen Hackett: Because the chemist was leaving.

9:05

Noreen Hackett: So I worked for that company for over six

9:07

Noreen Hackett: years under John O'Sullivan, who sort of

9:12

Noreen Hackett: became a mentor to me, and he allowed me to Noreen Hackett: grow within the industry and he allowed me

9:17

Noreen Hackett: to take off the R&D side of the business Noreen Hackett: and not alone that.

9:20

Noreen Hackett: I got to work in quality control. Noreen Hackett: I got to work in manufacturing, I got to

9:24

Noreen Hackett: work on the filling lines in every part of

9:28

Noreen Hackett: it, working with sales teams and working

9:31

Noreen Hackett: with, I suppose, every aspect of the

9:34

Noreen Hackett: company, and I was allowed to do that, Noreen Hackett: which wouldn't be seen in a big company.

9:40

Noreen Hackett: So I got a great start in it. Noreen Hackett: And then John, in 2016, 2017, john decided

9:46

Noreen Hackett: he was going to retire, so I worked there

9:49

Noreen Hackett: for probably another year and then I

9:52

Noreen Hackett: decided I could probably do this for myself,

9:55

Noreen Hackett: so I leave. Noreen Hackett: Before I left, I didn't really know how to

10:00

Noreen Hackett: start the business. Noreen Hackett: I was kind of thinking, oh God, how will I Noreen Hackett: start this business?

10:02

Noreen Hackett: And I enrolled in the Start your Own Noreen Hackett: Business course with the local enterprise Noreen Hackett: office how to start the business.

10:04

Noreen Hackett: I was kind of thinking, oh God, how will I Noreen Hackett: start this business? Noreen Hackett: And I enrolled in the Start your Own Noreen Hackett: Business course with the local enterprise

10:08

Noreen Hackett: office and that kickstarted the whole

10:10

Noreen Hackett: process of building a business plan and

10:15

Noreen Hackett: structuring the business model so that it

10:18

Noreen Hackett: became, I suppose, a viable business to go

10:21

Noreen Hackett: to banks for funding and the local

10:24

Noreen Hackett: enterprise office to grant aid me as well.

10:26

Noreen Hackett: So that's how it all started.

10:29

Noreen Hackett: And I started with the lab and we built a

10:32

Noreen Hackett: brand new lab in 2019 in Balna and then we

10:37

Noreen Hackett: built up a portfolio of clients I'd say

10:39

Noreen Hackett: about 20 clients at the time and we

10:41

Noreen Hackett: developed the products and at the time we Noreen Hackett: developed the products and at the time we

10:44

Noreen Hackett: tech transferred them into different Noreen Hackett: manufacturing facilities all over the world.

10:48

Noreen Hackett: So there'll be some in Ireland, some the UK Noreen Hackett: what does that mean?

10:51

Gary Fox: is it you would contract people to make Gary Fox: them for you, was it?

10:54

Noreen Hackett: so the brand. Noreen Hackett: What we did was we worked for the brand and

10:57

Noreen Hackett: the brand then decided where they would go Noreen Hackett: to manufacture, based on the best customer

11:00

Noreen Hackett: service, the best price they were getting, Noreen Hackett: and, um, we would help them tech transfer

11:05

Noreen Hackett: it in. Noreen Hackett: So really what I was doing was I was going

11:08

Noreen Hackett: into manufacturing sites and designing

11:11

Noreen Hackett: methods to manufacture for the

11:13

Noreen Hackett: manufacturing companies on the products Noreen Hackett: that we developed, and we were going with

11:19

Noreen Hackett: the UK, France, Germany, Poland and after a

11:24

Noreen Hackett: while I kind of just thought we're doing

11:28

Noreen Hackett: all the work here, developing these amazing Noreen Hackett: innovative products and we're giving them

11:32

Noreen Hackett: away to different contract manufacturers.

11:35

Noreen Hackett: So I thought again I'll do this myself, and

11:38

Noreen Hackett: in 2021, I started the business plan for

11:41

Noreen Hackett: that and on November 22nd 2022, we started

11:45

Noreen Hackett: producing for one of our biggest clients. Gary Fox: That's a rapid turnaround 2019.

11:50

Gary Fox: That's amazing, tom. Gary Fox: You mentioned something very interesting

11:53

Gary Fox: there and I want to go back and pick it Gary Fox: apart because I think for a lot of business

11:56

Gary Fox: owners in the audience that kind of want to Gary Fox: understand that more.

11:59

Gary Fox: You talked about the branding. Gary Fox: You're like I knew I had to introduce

12:02

Gary Fox: branding, so talk me through that. Gary Fox: Like branding.

12:09

Gary Fox: You're like I knew I had to introduce Gary Fox: branding, so talk me through that. Gary Fox: Like, what was your thought process behind? Gary Fox: Okay, you've seen the big shift here. Gary Fox: You've seen that they're going to one

12:12

Gary Fox: single source. Gary Fox: What was your thoughts behind the branding? Tom Keogh: I suppose, at the end of the day,

12:19

Tom Keogh: successful business gets close to the Tom Keogh: customer, yeah, yeah.

12:24

Tom Keogh: And if you can gain ownership of your point

12:29

Tom Keogh: of consumption, then you're in an

12:31

Tom Keogh: incredible powerful position to negotiate

12:33

Tom Keogh: along the whole supply chain. Tom Keogh: So when I joined the family business, which

12:39

Tom Keogh: is a very small family farm, back then I

12:42

Tom Keogh: could see that we had a point of difference

12:45

Tom Keogh: around quality. Tom Keogh: We really did have a point of difference

12:47

Tom Keogh: around quality, and so the inner marketeer

12:51

Tom Keogh: in me saw that we had a point of difference Tom Keogh: with our story in that it was a true story.

12:58

Tom Keogh: And when we went to talk to branding

13:03

Tom Keogh: experts about how we were going to brand

13:06

Tom Keogh: our business and Borbia were extremely

13:09

Tom Keogh: helpful in that process the people who won

13:14

Tom Keogh: that tender were the only people that came

13:17

Tom Keogh: into us and said you guys are living a

13:19

Tom Keogh: story. Tom Keogh: All we need to do is tell your story

13:23

Tom Keogh: because it will resonate with the consumer. Tom Keogh: And that was in 2006 and back then that was

13:32

Tom Keogh: groundbreaking. Tom Keogh: It sounds so simple today, but back then

13:35

Tom Keogh: like I nearly fell off my chair. Tom Keogh: I was like wow, because you, you, you.

13:42

Tom Keogh: There was nobody ever marketed to the Tom Keogh: producer of a product.

13:46

Tom Keogh: If you walk into a supermarket today, you Tom Keogh: will see posters on the walls of you know

13:51

Tom Keogh: farmers and heads of cabbage and you know

13:54

Tom Keogh: driving a tractor and you know they're all

13:57

Tom Keogh: trying to talk about the fact that they Tom Keogh: support farmers and there's provenance

14:01

Tom Keogh: behind our products. Tom Keogh: We were the first to do that, and the

14:05

Tom Keogh: difference is that we were farmers doing Tom Keogh: products.

14:08

Tom Keogh: We were the first to do that and the Tom Keogh: difference is that we were farmers doing

14:11

Tom Keogh: that. Tom Keogh: We were marketing ourselves to the customer, Tom Keogh: which really, really resonated.

14:18

Tom Keogh: I remember we did a photo shoot on the farm Tom Keogh: and we'd never done anything like that.

14:23

Tom Keogh: And there's a picture today that is on the

14:25

Tom Keogh: back of every bag of crisps. Tom Keogh: It's like myself and there's, there's a, Tom Keogh: there's a picture today, uh, that is on the

14:27

Tom Keogh: back of every bag of crisps. Tom Keogh: It's like myself and my dad, brother,

14:30

Tom Keogh: cousin, uncle, and that picture must have

14:33

Tom Keogh: been printed four or five hundred million

14:37

Tom Keogh: times since. Tom Keogh: And that picture was completely by chance,

14:42

Tom Keogh: completely by chance. Tom Keogh: We we happen to be all kind of in the

14:46

Tom Keogh: vicinity of a field where my uncle was

14:48

Tom Keogh: driving a tractor at the time and we said,

14:50

Tom Keogh: right, we'll all go to see. Tom Keogh: Can anybody, can everybody, get to this

14:53

Tom Keogh: field? Tom Keogh: That was 2006. Tom Keogh: I don't think we've all been in a field

14:57

Tom Keogh: together since and there happened to be a

15:00

Tom Keogh: fence in the middle of the field of Tom Keogh: potatoes and we all just got up on the

15:04

Tom Keogh: fence and put our shoulder on the fence. Tom Keogh: The photographer took a photograph and that

15:09

Tom Keogh: photograph became that photograph that's on Tom Keogh: the back of every single bag.

15:13

Tom Keogh: But as well as that, we started to feature

15:16

Tom Keogh: us as a family individually on each pack.

15:19

Tom Keogh: So you had, like a bag of rooster was like

15:22

Tom Keogh: my uncle, like a bag of Morris Piper was my Tom Keogh: father.

15:24

Tom Keogh: You know they were on the back holding the Tom Keogh: product. Tom Keogh: So with, you know, immense pride in the

15:29

Tom Keogh: quality that we could deliver. Tom Keogh: But that was very fresh, very innovative at

15:36

Tom Keogh: the time and it resonated with the Irish

15:39

Tom Keogh: consumer, really did. Gary Fox: I'm always saying this to founders and like

15:43

Gary Fox: push yourself forward. Gary Fox: You are interesting, people might care

15:48

Gary Fox: about your product, they might not, but Gary Fox: they care about you, they care about your

15:51

Gary Fox: story, why you started the business, and I

15:53

Gary Fox: think it resonates even more when you're Gary Fox: the ones making it.

15:56

Gary Fox: Was that hard, though, because a lot of Gary Fox: founders I talk to I'm like look, the

15:59

Gary Fox: biggest uplift for you here is to push Gary Fox: yourself forward, and they're always

16:02

Gary Fox: pushing back on. Gary Fox: I just don't feel comfortable.

16:05

Gary Fox: Was that hard for you putting yourself and Gary Fox: your family forward?

16:09

Tom Keogh: yes, and I suppose it wasn't for everybody

16:13

Tom Keogh: either. Tom Keogh: You know, some people were quite Tom Keogh: comfortable, you know, doing it, some

16:17

Tom Keogh: people probably probably weren't. Tom Keogh: Um, but I think what?

16:21

Tom Keogh: What helped us was we were all very young

16:24

Tom Keogh: at the time. Tom Keogh: I said, my brother, my cousin, we were just

16:27

Tom Keogh: willing to give it a go and what helped was

16:30

Tom Keogh: the reaction and the feedback, the consumer

16:32

Tom Keogh: feedback. Tom Keogh: You know it was working and it was working

16:38

Tom Keogh: with the Irish retailers. Tom Keogh: And you know, very quickly you saw a lot of

16:42

Tom Keogh: people start to copy you, you know, which Tom Keogh: is a great sign that it's real.

16:45

Tom Keogh: First they laugh at you, then they copy you. Tom Keogh: Yeah, and I think they were laughing at the

16:49

Tom Keogh: start. Tom Keogh: And it also worked with the retailers.

16:53

Tom Keogh: The retailers liked it. Tom Keogh: And I suppose at the time we started to do

16:57

Tom Keogh: a lot of consumer events, like Bloom and

16:59

Tom Keogh: the Plowing Match and you know, the

17:02

Tom Keogh: Tullamore Show, all these consumer events Tom Keogh: around Ireland, and you got to talk to the

17:06

Tom Keogh: customers and they really did. Tom Keogh: It really did resonate with them.

17:09

Tom Keogh: Yeah, and it grew from there. Gary Fox: Was it a hard switch, though, to go from

17:14

Gary Fox: kind of we're talking here with Noreen Gary Fox: about being behind the scenes?

17:17

Gary Fox: Was it hard to go from being behind the

17:19

Gary Fox: scenes to actually then being the front Gary Fox: facing, to actually going out talking to

17:22

Gary Fox: customers, getting their opinion, getting

17:24

Gary Fox: their feedback? Tom Keogh: Yes, it was challenging, but I suppose we

17:31

Tom Keogh: were up for the challenge. Tom Keogh: I knew that this was us making a difference

17:37

Tom Keogh: and this is what was going to actually turn Tom Keogh: this business around.

17:42

Tom Keogh: We didn't have the expertise at all and we

17:45

Tom Keogh: learned as we went, but what I found,

17:48

Tom Keogh: especially in the early days, was that Tom Keogh: there was a genuineness to what we did.

17:54

Tom Keogh: You know, we're not polished, we're not Tom Keogh: perfect, we make mistakes, but, like people

17:59

Tom Keogh: expect that, you know and you don't take

18:02

Tom Keogh: that and own it, and and over time as you, Tom Keogh: you know and you don't take that and own it,

18:05

Tom Keogh: and, over time, as you get experience and Tom Keogh: you do more and you talk to more people and

18:09

Tom Keogh: you do more marketing, and it just starts

18:12

Tom Keogh: to kind of turn into this flywheel you know,

18:15

Tom Keogh: and it just keeps on turning. Gary Fox: You mentioned it there you went to the

18:18

Gary Fox: local entrepreneur's office and you got Gary Fox: your business plan. Gary Fox: What was kind of like the tipping point for

18:24

Gary Fox: you. Gary Fox: You're like I'm definitely going to do this

18:26

Gary Fox: myself, because that's the bit I'm always Gary Fox: fascinated about with people, because it's

18:28

Gary Fox: the zero to one piece is the hardest, Gary Fox: because we all have ideas and it's turning

18:33

Gary Fox: them from like an idea to oh, there's the

18:35

Gary Fox: product. Gary Fox: What was the moment for you? Noreen Hackett: I think it was when I got to the stage of

18:42

Noreen Hackett: the business in the former job I was in

18:45

Noreen Hackett: where I was doing it all anyway. Noreen Hackett: I felt I was doing it all anyway.

18:49

Noreen Hackett: I was in every department in the company,

18:54

Noreen Hackett: as it was, we'll say. Noreen Hackett: John retired in 2016-2017.

18:58

Noreen Hackett: The new owner took over in between 2017 and

19:03

Noreen Hackett: 2018 it was probably January and when he

19:07

Noreen Hackett: took over I was on my honeymoon, so I

19:10

Noreen Hackett: wasn't there for the first two weeks, but

19:13

Noreen Hackett: he interviewed everyone in the company and

19:17

Noreen Hackett: when I came back then he said, oh, I Noreen Hackett: haven't interviewed you yet, come on in and

19:21

Noreen Hackett: I'll, yeah and uh. Noreen Hackett: I was like okay, it's a bit strange, but

19:25

Noreen Hackett: anyway. Noreen Hackett: Um. Noreen Hackett: So he opened his book and on every page he

19:31

Noreen Hackett: just went. Noreen Hackett: I interviewed everyone and he just started

19:33

Noreen Hackett: going through it. Noreen Hackett: He goes Noreen, noreen, noreen, noreen.

19:37

Noreen Hackett: He said how is it that you're involved in Noreen Hackett: every part of this business like as one

19:42

Noreen Hackett: person? Noreen Hackett: And then that was kind of the kicking point

19:45

Noreen Hackett: with me when I introduced I'm doing it Noreen Hackett: anyway, why don't I just do it for myself?

19:48

Noreen Hackett: And probably a few weeks later, that's when

19:50

Noreen Hackett: I started the ball rolling and it happened

19:54

Noreen Hackett: all very quickly. Noreen Hackett: I think one Friday I sat on my computer and

19:58

Noreen Hackett: wrote my resignation letter and I just out

20:01

Noreen Hackett: the door and went. Noreen Hackett: So I do that, I tend to do that.

20:06

Noreen Hackett: Anyway, I tend to make decisions very Noreen Hackett: quickly and, um, I just, if I make a

20:11

Noreen Hackett: decision, I stand by it and I go, that's it.

20:15

Gary Fox: So 2019, like that's it's it's been a rapid

20:18

Gary Fox: rise. Gary Fox: For you. Gary Fox: What's been kind of like the earliest

20:21

Gary Fox: challenges you faced when you started off Gary Fox: 2019?

20:23

Gary Fox: What was kind of the biggest hurdle you had Gary Fox: to overcome?

20:27

Noreen Hackett: To be honest, and I know this mightn't Noreen Hackett: sound like right, but I don't feel I had

20:32

Noreen Hackett: that many hurdles to overcome. Noreen Hackett: I was very good at what I did and I didn't

20:38

Noreen Hackett: find it hard to get clients. Noreen Hackett: My husband helped me in building the

20:43

Noreen Hackett: state-of-the the art lab that we had. Noreen Hackett: He found the premises and we built it

20:47

Noreen Hackett: together. Noreen Hackett: And you know, I just didn't find any part

20:52

Noreen Hackett: of it hard because when I started drawing

20:55

Noreen Hackett: up the business plan, I made it very strong

20:58

Noreen Hackett: and I got that help in making it very Noreen Hackett: strong.

21:00

Noreen Hackett: And one of the main things that I got from

21:03

Noreen Hackett: the local enterprise office was show your

21:05

Noreen Hackett: figures, where your figures coming from. Noreen Hackett: And I went out to the clients that I knew

21:09

Noreen Hackett: and I said look at, just need letters of Noreen Hackett: intent to say you're going to intend to do

21:13

Noreen Hackett: a certain amount of business with me over Noreen Hackett: the next few years.

21:17

Noreen Hackett: And you know the IB bank didn't blink an

21:19

Noreen Hackett: eye. Noreen Hackett: They backed it from the very beginning and

21:23

Noreen Hackett: I suppose I've been lucky like that that I

21:28

Noreen Hackett: don't really see any challenges. Noreen Hackett: The main challenges that have come is that

21:31

Noreen Hackett: I've grown my family while I'm growing my

21:33

Noreen Hackett: business, and that's probably the most

21:36

Noreen Hackett: challenging part of it. Noreen Hackett: Like my youngest is only nine months.

21:39

Noreen Hackett: So yeah, so it's been challenging for the

21:42

Noreen Hackett: last few years. Noreen Hackett: But when it comes to business, I think if

21:45

Noreen Hackett: you love what you do, you won't hang on to

21:50

Noreen Hackett: the challenges. Noreen Hackett: You'll see the good parts, I suppose.

21:53

Gary Fox: Yeah, I love that attitude. Gary Fox: How did you find your first couple of

21:56

Gary Fox: clients? Gary Fox: Because you kind of referenced it there and Gary Fox: again for people that are in the audience

21:59

Gary Fox: who might be in the early stages how did Gary Fox: you find the first kind of couple?

22:05

Noreen Hackett: might be in the early stages. Noreen Hackett: How did you find the first kind of couple, Noreen Hackett: the first few clients that I worked with?

22:08

Noreen Hackett: Well, I had actually worked with them for a Noreen Hackett: long time prior to that and I think I tried

22:12

Noreen Hackett: to structure it in a different way, in that

22:15

Noreen Hackett: it was more, you know, brief focus.

22:18

Noreen Hackett: So we work off briefs on products.

22:21

Noreen Hackett: So we work together. Noreen Hackett: Either we come up with the product idea or

22:25

Noreen Hackett: the brand comes up with the product idea, Noreen Hackett: and then at that point we get together, we

22:30

Noreen Hackett: discuss it, we talk about how we're going Noreen Hackett: to make it innovative, how it's going to

22:33

Noreen Hackett: sell on the market, come up with unique Noreen Hackett: selling points for it and you kind of it's

22:41

Noreen Hackett: funny to develop a product you really need

22:43

Noreen Hackett: to know who you're working with. Noreen Hackett: You need to know what they like, what they

22:47

Noreen Hackett: dislike especially what they dislike, I Noreen Hackett: suppose, because when it comes to

22:50

Noreen Hackett: fragrances and things like that, they're Noreen Hackett: it's very personal to a person and you need

22:57

Noreen Hackett: to build strong relationships. Noreen Hackett: And I suppose securing the clients wasn't

23:02

Noreen Hackett: hard, because I tend to build strong

23:05

Noreen Hackett: relationships with people that I work for,

23:07

Noreen Hackett: because they become friends. Noreen Hackett: You know they become people that you know

23:11

Noreen Hackett: over the course of eight or nine years that

23:14

Noreen Hackett: you've worked very closely with and they're

23:17

Noreen Hackett: all entrepreneurs, they're all people who Noreen Hackett: have started their own business, and you're

23:21

Noreen Hackett: kind of on a level ground at that point and

23:24

Noreen Hackett: they're trying to run their business, we're

23:26

Noreen Hackett: trying to run our business. Noreen Hackett: If they're successful, I'm successful, and

23:29

Noreen Hackett: vice versa. Noreen Hackett: So it wasn't hard to build relationships

23:35

Noreen Hackett: with the first few brand owners. Noreen Hackett: Yeah, that's.

23:40

Gary Fox: And Tom, for you. Gary Fox: Did you just hard stop the traditional

23:46

Gary Fox: farming, as you want to call it, as you Gary Fox: were doing the market gardening you were

23:49

Gary Fox: doing? Gary Fox: Was it a hard stop into brand or how did

23:52

Gary Fox: you manage that transition of essentially Gary Fox: running two businesses simultaneously?

23:59

Tom Keogh: I was very lucky in that the years kind of

24:02

Tom Keogh: preceding the brand, I had tendered for the

24:09

Tom Keogh: Superquin potato supply when I was about 23, Tom Keogh: 24, about that age, and didn't get it.

24:16

Tom Keogh: And then about a year later they gave me a

24:18

Tom Keogh: little bit like 2% and I think within 18

24:22

Tom Keogh: months we had about 100%. Tom Keogh: Yeah, so we were doing a really good job

24:25

Tom Keogh: with Superquin. Tom Keogh: But that was my first stepping stone from

24:32

Tom Keogh: being the guy that drove the tractor and

24:34

Tom Keogh: grew the potatoes to the guy that was now

24:37

Tom Keogh: managing a multi-million euro account with

24:41

Tom Keogh: the most important thing, some of the best Tom Keogh: expertise in food in Ireland at the time,

24:46

Tom Keogh: and I learned so much off those people.

24:49

Tom Keogh: Every time I went into Superquin I was like Tom Keogh: a sponge.

24:52

Tom Keogh: They had people that obviously trained

24:54

Tom Keogh: under Fergal Quinn and they were experts in

24:59

Tom Keogh: their field and they wanted the job done

25:02

Tom Keogh: their way and they had a certain customer

25:05

Tom Keogh: that wanted the highest quality product Tom Keogh: they could get in this country.

25:08

Tom Keogh: So we delivered that for them and for me,

25:12

Tom Keogh: like I just loved the opportunity to learn

25:17

Tom Keogh: from them and learn about retail. Tom Keogh: You know, learn about retail and go into

25:21

Tom Keogh: every store. Tom Keogh: And I knew every single manager.

25:25

Tom Keogh: You know, I knew every shop like the back Tom Keogh: of my hand and their category was a huge

25:30

Tom Keogh: success for the years preceding their

25:33

Tom Keogh: eventual move into receivership. Tom Keogh: But those years were a stepping stone for

25:38

Tom Keogh: me that got me to a point where I could Tom Keogh: actually brand a business but also move on

25:44

Tom Keogh: to that next stage, which was the snack Tom Keogh: foods.

25:47

Gary Fox: And did you keep them running Gary Fox: simultaneously, or did you move everything

25:50

Gary Fox: in then into the brand side of the business? Tom Keogh: We kept them running simultaneously, you

25:55

Tom Keogh: see. Tom Keogh: So we would have had the Kyo this is in

25:59

Tom Keogh: fresh now so we would have the Kyo brand.

26:01

Tom Keogh: We would have had the Peter Kyo and Sons

26:03

Tom Keogh: brand, which was my grandfather's brand, Tom Keogh: that we would have sold into the wholesale

26:07

Tom Keogh: markets. Tom Keogh: We kept that as a wholesale brand. Tom Keogh: And then we had that little bit of private

26:11

Tom Keogh: label with Superquin as well, and at the

26:15

Tom Keogh: time we just started to do business with Tom Keogh: BWG at the same time, who were Spar, the

26:21

Tom Keogh: Spar group. Tom Keogh: Yeah, we started to do business with them Tom Keogh: as well in Ireland.

26:23

Tom Keogh: Yeah. Tom Keogh: So Farm Packhouse and the whole marketing

26:29

Tom Keogh: brand yeah, they were all running together

26:32

Tom Keogh: before the eventual snack food business

26:34

Tom Keogh: launched. Gary Fox: And how did you do that? Gary Fox: Because a lot of entrepreneurs, we get

26:37

Gary Fox: distracted by nature. Gary Fox: We're always chasing that new idea, the new

26:40

Gary Fox: product, and it can tend to lead to like Gary Fox: like a splitting of the focus.

26:45

Gary Fox: How did you maintain standards, quality and

26:49

Gary Fox: growth across the different areas? Tom Keogh: before the snack food brand or as you were

26:55

Tom Keogh: growing into it. Gary Fox: I think that's the bit I'm really Gary Fox: interested in.

26:57

Gary Fox: Um, as entrepreneurs are in the audience,

27:00

Gary Fox: they're probably like always thinking about Gary Fox: growing their business and evolving their

27:03

Gary Fox: business. Gary Fox: Yeah, so how did you keep that focus as you

27:06

Gary Fox: evolved into the new stage? Tom Keogh: So I think that needs to change as the

27:12

Tom Keogh: business changes over time and the business Tom Keogh: grows, etc.

27:15

Tom Keogh: For me, I was very lucky in that I had in

27:20

Tom Keogh: everything we did before Snacks.

27:22

Tom Keogh: I had experience in all of that and I was

27:25

Tom Keogh: good at it, good enough that I could add

27:29

Tom Keogh: value to every area as people come into the

27:31

Tom Keogh: business. Tom Keogh: So people kind of learned around me and and

27:37

Tom Keogh: then when the new stuff started to come in

27:41

Tom Keogh: so you know snacks completely unheard of

27:45

Tom Keogh: that we had no experience with. Tom Keogh: What I found was that we really did take

27:50

Tom Keogh: our time. Tom Keogh: Yeah, we took our time doing these new

27:54

Tom Keogh: things and we learned a lot about them.

27:57

Tom Keogh: We didn't I didn't hire in expertise.

28:00

Tom Keogh: Yeah, I was at a trade show in Cologne two

28:03

Tom Keogh: days ago and met one of my competitors and

28:06

Tom Keogh: I noticed that their whole team were team.

28:10

Tom Keogh: Their whole team included people that had Tom Keogh: previously had careers in our industry in

28:14

Tom Keogh: different businesses and had built up 20,

28:16

Tom Keogh: 30 years of experience. Tom Keogh: I didn't do it like that at all.

28:21

Tom Keogh: If somebody had 30 years experience, I

28:24

Tom Keogh: didn't want them in the business. Tom Keogh: We learned as we went and we learned to do

28:30

Tom Keogh: it our way, which turned out to be a better

28:33

Tom Keogh: way. Tom Keogh: Yeah, and it's got us to where it is today.

28:38

Tom Keogh: So, as the business developed and as the

28:42

Tom Keogh: entrepreneur's focus starts to change,

28:44

Tom Keogh: eventually you get to a point where you've Tom Keogh: built enough people around you with that

28:49

Tom Keogh: level of expertise in the essence of what

28:52

Tom Keogh: makes your business different that your

28:55

Tom Keogh: focus can then start to move around as

28:58

Tom Keogh: required. Gary Fox: And Noreen similar to you.

29:02

Gary Fox: You've evolved multiple times, so you Gary Fox: started off with the lab and then you moved

29:06

Gary Fox: into production. Gary Fox: How did you manage that switch?

29:12

Noreen Hackett: It was very difficult because the lab

29:16

Noreen Hackett: itself is very easy run and it's very

29:20

Noreen Hackett: innovative and fun and you're developing Noreen Hackett: something new every single day, whether it

29:24

Noreen Hackett: be methods or formulas or you know.

29:27

Noreen Hackett: You're coming up with different concepts Noreen Hackett: for the brand and it's just a fun business

29:30

Noreen Hackett: to be in. Noreen Hackett: The manufacturing is different.

29:34

Noreen Hackett: It's it's more like I always call us like a

29:36

Noreen Hackett: monster of a business because there's so

29:38

Noreen Hackett: many aspects of the business that needs to Noreen Hackett: align at the same time in order for product

29:43

Noreen Hackett: launch to come together. Noreen Hackett: We'll say so.

29:46

Noreen Hackett: Um, the management of that is quite hard

29:49

Noreen Hackett: and I sourced all the equipment within, I'd

29:52

Noreen Hackett: say, eight months, um, from about, I think,

29:57

Noreen Hackett: started in november of 2021, sourcing the

30:00

Noreen Hackett: equipment. Noreen Hackett: So, as I said earlier, I was in

30:04

Noreen Hackett: manufacturing sites all over Europe, so we

30:06

Noreen Hackett: would have been in two or three in Ireland Noreen Hackett: and the UK and France and Germany and

30:11

Noreen Hackett: Poland, so I would have had a keen insight

30:13

Noreen Hackett: into the different manufacturing apparatus.

30:17

Noreen Hackett: They use it, use the filling lines and, as

30:20

Noreen Hackett: I was saying to Tom, out here on Easter Noreen Hackett: Island to take a few pictures of different

30:23

Noreen Hackett: things. Noreen Hackett: So, while usually it would be an engineer

30:28

Noreen Hackett: who would go out and purchase all of this

30:31

Noreen Hackett: equipment, I sourced it from all over

30:34

Noreen Hackett: Europe over the course of probably about Noreen Hackett: four or five months.

30:36

Noreen Hackett: And then it had to be shipped to me and I

30:38

Noreen Hackett: had to organise that as well. Noreen Hackett: So I turned into a little engineer for a

30:43

Noreen Hackett: few months of my life and it was a very

30:47

Noreen Hackett: rewarding year because to source all that

30:50

Noreen Hackett: equipment you're talking maybe two millions

30:52

Noreen Hackett: worth of equipment from all over Europe and

30:57

Noreen Hackett: to just make those decisions very rapidly

30:59

Noreen Hackett: and just, I suppose, just get on with it

31:01

Noreen Hackett: sort of attitude which I would have about

31:04

Noreen Hackett: nearly everything. Noreen Hackett: Um, when it came to the first batch

31:08

Noreen Hackett: production, I remember going into work that

31:11

Noreen Hackett: morning at about five or six o'clock in the Noreen Hackett: morning and being like geez, it all landed

31:15

Noreen Hackett: here and all it's all here and I can start.

31:17

Noreen Hackett: And I hopped on the forklift and lifted all Noreen Hackett: the stuff into the batch and started and

31:21

Noreen Hackett: when the lads came in to do the rest of the Noreen Hackett: batch with me, I'd nearly half had done

31:24

Noreen Hackett: already Because I was just so excited that

31:27

Noreen Hackett: I'd pulled it all together within that year. Noreen Hackett: And as well as that, my biggest client and

31:32

Noreen Hackett: she's still my biggest client today and Noreen Hackett: she's one of the best, I suppose, business

31:36

Noreen Hackett: women you'll ever deal with she put her

31:43

Noreen Hackett: faith in me with her business. Noreen Hackett: So she was with the different contract

31:45

Noreen Hackett: manufacturer at the time and she said you Noreen Hackett: build it, I'll give you my products.

31:49

Noreen Hackett: And I said sound, I'll do that. Noreen Hackett: So, so, um, yeah, she put in a huge order

31:56

Noreen Hackett: for about two or three, two and a half Noreen Hackett: thousand, two and or 250 000 units, which

32:01

Noreen Hackett: to us was massive, like you know.

32:03

Noreen Hackett: And, um, that first day, on the 22nd of

32:06

Noreen Hackett: November, I produced the largest batch that

32:09

Noreen Hackett: I'd ever produced in my career on my own

32:11

Noreen Hackett: site. Noreen Hackett: So it was that's when I thought this is

32:15

Noreen Hackett: hugely rewarding, like it's. Noreen Hackett: It's just, it all came together and it came

32:19

Noreen Hackett: together very fast. Gary Fox: But things tend to happen like that with me,

32:23

Gary Fox: because I just make decisions quite quickly

32:26

Gary Fox: and not can you talk to me about that, Gary Fox: because that's actually something that's

32:29

Gary Fox: really tough when you work for yourself is Gary Fox: making decisions because there's no one to

32:33

Gary Fox: go. Gary Fox: Yeah, I know that's a really good idea,

32:36

Gary Fox: let's do it, but for you, you seem to be Gary Fox: able to move quickly.

32:39

Gary Fox: How do you avoid the paralysis?

32:41

Gary Fox: How do you make decisions very decisively Gary Fox: and very quickly?

32:44

Gary Fox: Because it's a theme coming through as we Gary Fox: chat. Noreen Hackett: I think it's just the want to succeed is

32:52

Noreen Hackett: greater than any sort of fear you'd ever

32:56

Noreen Hackett: have. Noreen Hackett: I tend to not have fear about anything like,

32:59

Noreen Hackett: especially in business. Noreen Hackett: I wouldn't have much fear. Noreen Hackett: I would just say what's the worst that can

33:04

Noreen Hackett: happen? Noreen Hackett: You know, and typically if you think like

33:07

Noreen Hackett: that, what is the worst that can happen? Noreen Hackett: You know, if my business Godfrey ever went

33:13

Noreen Hackett: under in the morning I'd get a job Noreen Hackett: somewhere else.

33:15

Noreen Hackett: So I just I just think what's the worst

33:18

Noreen Hackett: that could happen? Noreen Hackett: Just get on with it and put the head down.

33:22

Noreen Hackett: And that's typically how I deal with the

33:25

Noreen Hackett: business and I like having full control

33:28

Noreen Hackett: over the decisions. Noreen Hackett: I don't have to ask anyone.

33:31

Noreen Hackett: You know it's nice to be able to get advice Noreen Hackett: and my husband is.

33:35

Noreen Hackett: He's an entrepreneur as well. Noreen Hackett: He runs his own business and I would, you

33:39

Noreen Hackett: know, get advice from him on things.

33:42

Noreen Hackett: My parents run their own business. Noreen Hackett: They're probably where I get all my work

33:46

Noreen Hackett: ethic from and you know I've advisory

33:51

Noreen Hackett: people around me if I need them. Noreen Hackett: But I like to be able to just make a

33:53

Noreen Hackett: decision and roll with it.

33:56

Gary Fox: I love that you back yourself. Gary Fox: It's also interesting that that your

34:00

Gary Fox: partner and your parents are entrepreneurs. Gary Fox: I've interviewed, I think, 260

34:03

Gary Fox: entrepreneurs now and nearly always it's

34:06

Gary Fox: mum, dad, uncle, aunt, cousin.

34:08

Gary Fox: It's so interesting and I always say this

34:10

Gary Fox: in the pod you have to see it to be it. Gary Fox: That's why I love doing stuff like this,

34:13

Gary Fox: like it's so impactful to be able to go oh,

34:17

Gary Fox: I could definitely like follow her path.

34:20

Gary Fox: And then for you, tom, you've grown this

34:22

Gary Fox: brand to be something that's like bigger

34:25

Gary Fox: than you now. Gary Fox: It's much bigger than yourself.

34:28

Gary Fox: What's been the kind of the critical Gary Fox: decisions you made along the way?

34:31

Gary Fox: Kind of similar to Noreen, like she had the

34:33

Gary Fox: lab and then brought the production Gary Fox: in-house.

34:35

Gary Fox: What's been the critical decisions you made Gary Fox: on the way that now, in hindsight, you kind

34:39

Gary Fox: of look back and go? Tom Keogh: that was super important, I think.

34:49

Tom Keogh: For us it was that kind of almost religious

34:54

Tom Keogh: attention to quality that it was never

35:00

Tom Keogh: challenged and at times we may have been

35:04

Tom Keogh: given opportunity or there are things we

35:07

Tom Keogh: could have done to reduce cost, to get

35:10

Tom Keogh: business to grow the business quicker.

35:15

Tom Keogh: That I didn't do. Tom Keogh: I just maintained that upper high quality

35:24

Tom Keogh: level and and we test that every every 12

35:27

Tom Keogh: weeks we we independently go to 250

35:30

Tom Keogh: households around ireland and they get

35:33

Tom Keogh: plain bags of crisps with their competitive

35:36

Tom Keogh: set and we get them to consume all that

35:39

Tom Keogh: product and that's all. Tom Keogh: That data is then pulled together and sent

35:43

Tom Keogh: back to us. Tom Keogh: So it's not good enough for us to say that

35:47

Tom Keogh: we're the best. Tom Keogh: We want our consumers to tell us that we're

35:51

Tom Keogh: the best. Tom Keogh: Yeah, and I'll be honest, we don't always

35:53

Tom Keogh: win, but if we don't win, we do something

35:57

Tom Keogh: about it and we make sure we do, and that's

36:00

Tom Keogh: the difference that keeps us up there all Tom Keogh: the time.

36:03

Tom Keogh: We used to do benchmarking on the farm, so

36:07

Tom Keogh: all the team would get into the canteen and Tom Keogh: we'd have like 20 bowls of crisps all

36:11

Tom Keogh: around the canteen. Tom Keogh: Everybody would score them on different Tom Keogh: levels and after about six months, like I,

36:16

Tom Keogh: started to realize that everybody knew our Tom Keogh: crisps.

36:19

Tom Keogh: So we always came first and I said that's

36:22

Tom Keogh: not right first, and I said that's not Tom Keogh: right. Tom Keogh: We can't always come first.

36:24

Tom Keogh: That's not truthful. Tom Keogh: So that's why we still do it internally.

36:28

Tom Keogh: But it's more of an exercise. Tom Keogh: I use it almost as a cultural exercise for

36:33

Tom Keogh: people to understand what we're doing Tom Keogh: versus our competitors.

36:37

Tom Keogh: But we rely on our customers to feed back

36:39

Tom Keogh: to us that we maintain that position when

36:41

Tom Keogh: it comes to quality. Tom Keogh: So that was key and we exist because of

36:48

Tom Keogh: that that quality, high quality position.

36:51

Tom Keogh: We're the most expensive product on the Tom Keogh: market. Tom Keogh: Yeah, and people, they need a reason to pay

36:57

Tom Keogh: that extra bit of money and so many brands

37:01

Tom Keogh: don't do that. Tom Keogh: They launch a product that looks great,

37:07

Tom Keogh: that'll get you one sale. Tom Keogh: That product doesn't deliver, you're not

37:10

Tom Keogh: getting the return sale. Tom Keogh: So maintaining that position, I think, was

37:15

Tom Keogh: the most important thing I've done over the

37:18

Tom Keogh: years to get the brand to where it is today.

37:21

Gary Fox: Done over the years to get the product to Gary Fox: get the, the brand, to where it is today. Gary Fox: How have you expanded, then?

37:25

Gary Fox: As you told me a little bit earlier, like Gary Fox: you're about to launch a new site on the

37:30

Gary Fox: farm. Gary Fox: So how have you grown? Gary Fox: Because, like, gills is everywhere now.

37:33

Gary Fox: You go into any, any shop kills is there.

37:36

Gary Fox: You go on air lingus, you go abroad kills

37:38

Gary Fox: is there. Gary Fox: How have you expanded the production to

37:41

Gary Fox: match that? Gary Fox: Like? Gary Fox: How did you manage to go up the curve

37:44

Gary Fox: without the wheels falling off? Tom Keogh: I always get worried when people say Kiosk

37:48

Tom Keogh: is everywhere. Tom Keogh: And I'll be honest with you, when I started

37:51

Tom Keogh: off, like, I went to the bank my first

37:53

Tom Keogh: business plan I went to the Bank of Ireland Tom Keogh: and Swords and my business plan was to sell

37:59

Tom Keogh: crisps at farmer's markets around Ireland. Tom Keogh: For five years that was my business plan.

38:04

Tom Keogh: Like, I didn't have that aspiration to be

38:07

Tom Keogh: where I am today. Tom Keogh: I had to develop that organically.

38:10

Tom Keogh: Yeah, and the.

38:15

Tom Keogh: When the first key accounts started to Tom Keogh: contact us, I was like they're not getting

38:19

Tom Keogh: their crisps, no, I don't want to see my Tom Keogh: crisps there. Tom Keogh: You know I was so protective of the brand

38:24

Tom Keogh: and what we did. Tom Keogh: I was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

38:27

Tom Keogh: no, they're not getting it. Tom Keogh: I don't want to see that. Tom Keogh: No, no, no, we're going to be in just the

38:30

Tom Keogh: little independent stores here. Tom Keogh: But you know, very quickly I started to

38:34

Tom Keogh: realize that and you can't be a niche brand

38:39

Tom Keogh: in Ireland. Tom Keogh: You won't survive. Tom Keogh: You will always be a mom and pop.

38:45

Tom Keogh: Yeah, you'll never go beyond that. Tom Keogh: So we grew the brand really in Ireland.

38:53

Tom Keogh: And I know people talk about word of mouth.

38:56

Tom Keogh: You know, but word of mouth is the most

39:01

Tom Keogh: effective form of marketing you will ever

39:03

Tom Keogh: get. Tom Keogh: If somebody recommends a product to you

39:12

Tom Keogh: that you know and trust, you will then buy Tom Keogh: that product, and that is what really

39:15

Tom Keogh: started our brand to roll. Tom Keogh: We had very effective PR in the early days.

39:22

Tom Keogh: I had no marketing budget.

39:26

Tom Keogh: One of the first things we did was launch Tom Keogh: Ireland's first National Potato Day. Tom Keogh: It was a complete tongue-in-cheek.

39:32

Tom Keogh: Ireland had no National Potato Day and we Tom Keogh: were like, okay, let's do it.

39:35

Tom Keogh: So we launched Ireland's first National

39:38

Tom Keogh: Potato Day, brought to you by Kiosk. Tom Keogh: I rented out a little corner in Merrion

39:43

Tom Keogh: Square and we had potato games.

39:46

Tom Keogh: We invited chip fans in, we had kids.

39:49

Tom Keogh: It was done in August and it was done at a

39:53

Tom Keogh: time when there's no news in Ireland. Tom Keogh: And that day cost me 20, I think it was 20,

40:01

Tom Keogh: 24, 20 24 000 euro. Tom Keogh: Again. Tom Keogh: Everything was done and paid for and it

40:06

Tom Keogh: brought in 1.8 million euros worth of media

40:09

Tom Keogh: coverage and it won. Tom Keogh: It won consumer campaign of the year at the

40:14

Tom Keogh: pr awards that year, from nobody knew

40:17

Tom Keogh: anything about us to being right there Tom Keogh: winning the award within the first year.

40:22

Tom Keogh: So that was. Tom Keogh: That was a great um um way to start the

40:27

Tom Keogh: awareness around the brand. Tom Keogh: And if you think of Ireland back then, this

40:33

Tom Keogh: was 2011, 2012, so Ireland was in the

40:37

Tom Keogh: depths of a recession and I remember at the

40:40

Tom Keogh: time we had access to uh focus groups from

40:44

Tom Keogh: borbia or be really good around consumer

40:46

Tom Keogh: research and the focus groups.

40:50

Tom Keogh: We put the product into the focus groups Tom Keogh: and the focus groups came back and said

40:55

Tom Keogh: great, you're, uh, you're making crisps on

40:58

Tom Keogh: your farm. Tom Keogh: Fantastic, lovely, uh, you're using Irish

41:01

Tom Keogh: potatoes. Tom Keogh: But you're so, do, tato. Tom Keogh: You know what's different about your

41:05

Tom Keogh: product and really, when we got to, the Tom Keogh: essence of what was different about us was

41:09

Tom Keogh: that we were a startup business in the

41:12

Tom Keogh: depths of a recession in Ireland and the

41:15

Tom Keogh: Irish consumer had this, had this mentality

41:18

Tom Keogh: that they were going to support Irish and

41:21

Tom Keogh: drive this country out of recession, and

41:24

Tom Keogh: that was the communication. Tom Keogh: We changed our communication.

41:28

Tom Keogh: We started to talk about the startup

41:30

Tom Keogh: business. Tom Keogh: We started to talk about the job generation

41:33

Tom Keogh: and my first employees were electricians,

41:36

Tom Keogh: carpenters and brickies, because none of

41:39

Tom Keogh: those people had jobs at the time. Tom Keogh: They were my first employees and some of

41:41

Tom Keogh: them are still with me today and that

41:44

Tom Keogh: really resonated with the irish consumer.

41:47

Tom Keogh: Plus everything we said was true and most

41:53

Tom Keogh: of my competitors a lot of food products

41:55

Tom Keogh: you buy today. Tom Keogh: It's all smoke and mirrors.

41:58

Tom Keogh: You know they'll say something and they'll

42:00

Tom Keogh: make sure that the saying is in a way that Tom Keogh: they cannot be challenged according to the

42:04

Tom Keogh: law. Tom Keogh: For us, we could say anything we wanted to

42:08

Tom Keogh: do because everything we said was true, and

42:11

Tom Keogh: if a journalist like Roisin Ingle wanted to

42:14

Tom Keogh: come and visit a farm and see how it's done,

42:17

Tom Keogh: she could ring me. Tom Keogh: She could ring me and we had. Tom Keogh: So many of those people around Ireland got

42:21

Tom Keogh: to know us through these genuine articles

42:24

Tom Keogh: and genuine pieces that talked about our

42:27

Tom Keogh: product. Gary Fox: There's a huge lesson there in terms of the

42:30

Gary Fox: authenticity piece, but also like how you

42:32

Gary Fox: frame your message. Gary Fox: It's so important. Gary Fox: People need to be able to understand what

42:36

Gary Fox: do you do yeah, like you're up against data,

42:40

Gary Fox: like what do you guys do? Gary Fox: That's different.

42:42

Gary Fox: Like there's so many good lessons there for Gary Fox: startups and just how you portray yourself

42:46

Gary Fox: and going forward is so important.

42:49

Gary Fox: Noreen, bring me up kind of to 24, 25, as

42:53

Gary Fox: we are now looking into the year ahead. Gary Fox: What's been kind of like your goals now for

42:58

Gary Fox: the next year? Gary Fox: What are you looking ahead going? Gary Fox: There's big opportunity here.

43:02

Gary Fox: So for any entrepreneurs that are in the Gary Fox: audience or listening, like, where do you

43:05

Gary Fox: think there's big opportunities this year? Noreen Hackett: So for us we're expanding our business into

43:14

Noreen Hackett: probably tripling triple the size it is now.

43:18

Noreen Hackett: We're going to build a purpose-built Noreen Hackett: facility for our lab and our manufacturing

43:23

Noreen Hackett: and our warehouse and to have it all Noreen Hackett: underneath one roof.

43:27

Noreen Hackett: At the moment we rent four different

43:29

Noreen Hackett: properties and it's just all scattered. Noreen Hackett: So we have to plan it in now, for it should

43:35

Noreen Hackett: be back next month. Noreen Hackett: So that's ideally what we're going to focus

43:40

Noreen Hackett: on for the next year and then, as well as

43:43

Noreen Hackett: that, the main focus of the brand is to I

43:47

Noreen Hackett: suppose we haven't branded, we have no

43:50

Noreen Hackett: branding. Noreen Hackett: I'd say you're like, oh God, how do you

43:52

Noreen Hackett: even have a business if you don't brand? Gary Fox: I did try to find you on a ghost.

43:56

Gary Fox: Yeah, I'm a ghost, I don't.

43:58

Noreen Hackett: I don't exist. Noreen Hackett: So you know, as Tom was saying, word of

44:03

Noreen Hackett: mouth is the best recommendation for a

44:07

Noreen Hackett: business. Noreen Hackett: All of my business comes from word of mouth.

44:12

Noreen Hackett: All of the brand owners we have 37 Noreen Hackett: different brand owners Once or twice or

44:16

Noreen Hackett: maybe four times a year. Noreen Hackett: They all end up in the same room together,

44:20

Noreen Hackett: whether it be Image Awards or Gossies or

44:23

Noreen Hackett: whichever. Noreen Hackett: They're all brand owners, entrepreneurs,

44:26

Noreen Hackett: and they all end up and I suppose the

44:30

Noreen Hackett: people I work with, I've great Noreen Hackett: relationships with them, I've known them

44:32

Noreen Hackett: for so long that they will scream my name

44:36

Noreen Hackett: in a room full of opportunities and I'm Noreen Hackett: very lucky in that way.

44:39

Noreen Hackett: So we have a targeted plan to take on new

44:45

Noreen Hackett: brands and but the focus for next year is

44:48

Noreen Hackett: to bring production, irish production that

44:51

Noreen Hackett: has been produced in the UK, back into

44:54

Noreen Hackett: Ireland and into the Irish economy, because

44:56

Noreen Hackett: I think people years ago made an Ireland

45:00

Noreen Hackett: stamp did mean an awful lot.

45:03

Noreen Hackett: It kind of lulled there for a while and Noreen Hackett: they weren't too bothered because the

45:06

Noreen Hackett: prices in Ireland were quite high and that

45:09

Noreen Hackett: you know we couldn't do anything about that Noreen Hackett: with interior supply chains.

45:12

Noreen Hackett: But now the focus is coming back to having Noreen Hackett: excuse me, to having, um, the Made in

45:17

Noreen Hackett: Ireland stamp. Noreen Hackett: I Made in Ireland stamp on pack again, and

45:20

Noreen Hackett: so we're working extremely hard with Noreen Hackett: different brands from um the UK, especially

45:25

Noreen Hackett: to excuse me, to bring back um brands to

45:29

Noreen Hackett: Ireland to manufacture, and that would

45:33

Noreen Hackett: bring over a million units back into the

45:35

Noreen Hackett: Irish economy, which would be a huge

45:38

Noreen Hackett: accomplishment and I hope that by 2026,

45:41

Noreen Hackett: we'd have them back in Ireland. Gary Fox: And then, Tom, you mentioned something

45:44

Gary Fox: earlier about exporting. Gary Fox: You've a real danger of being a niche brand

45:49

Gary Fox: in Ireland. Gary Fox: You can't really exist. Gary Fox: So how do you look at the export market?

45:55

Tom Keogh: Yeah, so in Ireland we are the only

45:58

Tom Keogh: Irish-owned branded manufacturer of potato Tom Keogh: crisps.

46:01

Tom Keogh: Here the market is controlled by InterSnack

46:04

Tom Keogh: from Germany. Tom Keogh: They own all the Irish brands that we've

46:07

Tom Keogh: known and grown up with, and then you've Tom Keogh: got Walkers, so we're flying the tricolour.

46:15

Tom Keogh: In the middle of that. Tom Keogh: We have about 12% 13% market share and it's Tom Keogh: very difficult to grow further here in

46:18

Tom Keogh: Ireland because of the size of the Tom Keogh: competitors. Tom Keogh: Here we found blue sky.

46:23

Tom Keogh: Overseas we found great potential through

46:27

Tom Keogh: innovation. Tom Keogh: We've developed a product for the airline

46:31

Tom Keogh: industry that we're the first people in the Tom Keogh: world to do it. Tom Keogh: It's a very special sized crisp in a bag

46:38

Tom Keogh: that has the pressure equalized for Tom Keogh: in-flight retail and because of that we are

46:44

Tom Keogh: now dealing with. Tom Keogh: Actually, last year, 300 million people

46:47

Tom Keogh: flew aboard planes with Kiosk crisps on Tom Keogh: board all over the world, from singapore to

46:58

Tom Keogh: the states, and that's been a huge, a huge Tom Keogh: business growth for us. Tom Keogh: But it's also massive exposure for the

47:00

Tom Keogh: brand. Tom Keogh: You know we have people all over the world. Tom Keogh: 300 million people are seeing our product

47:04

Tom Keogh: on these planes. Tom Keogh: Um, and what?

47:08

Tom Keogh: What we have found is that in in a lot of

47:10

Tom Keogh: countries overseas that Ireland is so

47:14

Tom Keogh: marketable. Tom Keogh: You know we we are seen as this amazing

47:20

Tom Keogh: green jewel of an island on the edge of the

47:22

Tom Keogh: Atlantic Ocean that produces the nicest

47:25

Tom Keogh: food in a sustainable way that's safe and

47:28

Tom Keogh: reliable, and when you go to market

47:33

Tom Keogh: products from this country overseas, I

47:36

Tom Keogh: think we are always at a competitive Tom Keogh: advantage straight away, just because who

47:40

Tom Keogh: we are and you will find in countries all

47:43

Tom Keogh: over the world we have traveled very well

47:46

Tom Keogh: as a people, a as a, as a people for

47:48

Tom Keogh: generations and, generally speaking,

47:51

Tom Keogh: somebody from Ireland has does something Tom Keogh: really good where you are trying to sell

47:55

Tom Keogh: your product and there is there's respect

47:57

Tom Keogh: for that, and that has helped us greatly in

48:02

Tom Keogh: establishing markets in the 20 countries we

48:05

Tom Keogh: deal with we deal with today you mentioned

48:08

Tom Keogh: something ever sustainability and and kind

48:10

Tom Keogh: of like the green aspect of things. Gary Fox: How have you kind of adopted kind of

48:14

Gary Fox: sustainability practices within the farm, Gary Fox: because I think nowadays like people just

48:19

Gary Fox: won't deal with you if you're not Gary Fox: sustainable, or is that true?

48:23

Tom Keogh: No, it's not true. Tom Keogh: So sustainability we are very lucky in

48:30

Tom Keogh: sustainability in that we deal literally

48:33

Tom Keogh: with soil right through to the shelf.

48:36

Tom Keogh: You know we cover the entire supply chain.

48:40

Tom Keogh: So we have so much to do around Tom Keogh: sustainability and I do feel we have a huge

48:44

Tom Keogh: responsibility to act on that.

48:46

Tom Keogh: To act on that. Tom Keogh: What I'm finding with sustainability is

48:51

Tom Keogh: that it is an extremely difficult minefield

48:55

Tom Keogh: for a consumer to navigate, and that is

48:59

Tom Keogh: because it hasn't been legislated correctly

49:02

Tom Keogh: yet. Tom Keogh: So you could walk into the local

49:05

Tom Keogh: supermarket here you'll probably pick up 20

49:08

Tom Keogh: food brands with claims stating I've done Tom Keogh: this, you do that, I have no carbon. Tom Keogh: You'll probably pick up 20 food brands with

49:10

Tom Keogh: claims stating I've done this, you do that, Tom Keogh: I have no carbon.

49:12

Tom Keogh: You've this, I'm this. Tom Keogh: And the reality is in the background.

49:16

Tom Keogh: There's nobody policing that. Tom Keogh: There's nobody policing these claims, and

49:23

Tom Keogh: it's an awful shame because that could be a

49:26

Tom Keogh: competitive advantage for businesses and

49:31

Tom Keogh: force them to do a lot more around

49:33

Tom Keogh: sustainability. Tom Keogh: But the minefield of communication around

49:37

Tom Keogh: it has resulted, I think, in a lot of

49:40

Tom Keogh: companies pulling back. Tom Keogh: Now access to finance is starting to change

49:46

Tom Keogh: that. Tom Keogh: You know.

49:48

Tom Keogh: If you want to go to the bank, you get Tom Keogh: money to build a factory. Tom Keogh: You now need to show that bank how

49:53

Tom Keogh: sustainable that factory is going to be, Tom Keogh: and that will then allow you access better

49:57

Tom Keogh: funding. Tom Keogh: But at the moment it is a minefield.

50:01

Tom Keogh: But the future? Tom Keogh: You know there is no future without

50:04

Tom Keogh: sustainability Eco is being put back into

50:06

Tom Keogh: economy. Gary Fox: We're going to come to questions in a

50:09

Gary Fox: couple of minutes, so if you have questions Gary Fox: for Tom and Noreen, we'll come to you very

50:12

Gary Fox: shortly. Gary Fox: Noreen, then the same question to you how

50:16

Gary Fox: has sustainability played a part in the Gary Fox: growth of advanced cosmetics?

50:20

Noreen Hackett: So all of our materials have to be either

50:22

Noreen Hackett: partially or fully sustainable, so they Noreen Hackett: come in as mass balance.

50:25

Noreen Hackett: If they're partially, when we're building

50:29

Noreen Hackett: our brand new facility we will be working

50:33

Noreen Hackett: with Lean to ensure that everything is

50:36

Noreen Hackett: sustainable. Noreen Hackett: There'll be solar panels. Noreen Hackett: We also have a patent pending manufacturing

50:43

Noreen Hackett: process whereby we reuse it's recycling the

50:47

Noreen Hackett: heat from the tanks to heat the building

50:50

Noreen Hackett: and things like that. Noreen Hackett: But from a product perspective, when we're

50:56

Noreen Hackett: sourcing the componentry, it's very Noreen Hackett: important that it's recyclable for us and

51:01

Noreen Hackett: even the packaging that it comes in and

51:03

Noreen Hackett: that we manage that correctly and that

51:06

Noreen Hackett: everything is recycled in compliance and

51:09

Noreen Hackett: then that the customer is made aware of how Noreen Hackett: they can recycle, if they can recycle.

51:15

Noreen Hackett: You know it's all physically on pack that

51:17

Noreen Hackett: is regulated and you know the majority of

51:20

Noreen Hackett: our clients are RayPak registered, which

51:22

Noreen Hackett: means that they are fully compliant to the

51:27

Noreen Hackett: recycling of it. Noreen Hackett: We also have of late a lot of refill packs.

51:32

Noreen Hackett: So you buy the full pack and then it's Noreen Hackett: called a parent pack and then you can just

51:37

Noreen Hackett: buy the refill and you pop it in and it's Noreen Hackett: more sustainable.

51:40

Noreen Hackett: You're using less plastic and then we're

51:44

Noreen Hackett: getting rid of a lot of unicartons, which Noreen Hackett: means that it's less bulky and that lends

51:50

Noreen Hackett: to even for transport. Noreen Hackett: You there are. Noreen Hackett: It's less bulky and that lends to even for

51:52

Noreen Hackett: transport. Noreen Hackett: You know it's less bulky. Noreen Hackett: There's less transport over and back of

51:56

Noreen Hackett: those materials as well.

51:59

Noreen Hackett: So, yeah, it's very important for us to

52:02

Noreen Hackett: include that, especially when we're Noreen Hackett: building our new facility, that everything

52:06

Noreen Hackett: is is done sustainably that everything is

52:14

Noreen Hackett: done sustainably. Gary Fox: Enterprise Ireland helps to support and

52:16

Gary Fox: fund a vibrant startup ecosystem, providing Gary Fox: supports, insights and network connections

52:21

Gary Fox: to the most ambitious Irish startups. Gary Fox: From expert advice to raising funding,

52:25

Gary Fox: exploring opportunities in international Gary Fox: markets to strategic planning.

52:30

Gary Fox: Enterprise Ireland is here to support you Gary Fox: in those important startup moments.

52:34

Gary Fox: For more information about how Enterprise Gary Fox: Ireland can support you on your startup

52:37

Gary Fox: journey, visit enterprise-irelandcom.

52:41

Gary Fox: Enterprise Ireland helping Irish startups Gary Fox: go global.

52:45

Gary Fox: I'm going to come to you both for kind of Gary Fox: advice for early stage and aspiring

52:49

Gary Fox: founders now, shortly Before that that, do Gary Fox: we have any questions from the audience for

52:52

Gary Fox: Tom or Noreen yourself here, noreen?

52:56

Tom Keogh: how do you export your products from

52:58

Tom Keogh: Ballynagh? Tom Keogh: Is it via rail or road?

53:02

Noreen Hackett: so all of the products are picked up by Noreen Hackett: currier, by hauliers, and they're

53:08

Noreen Hackett: distributed to the different distribution Noreen Hackett: centers. Noreen Hackett: That is managed by our clients.

53:12

Noreen Hackett: So one would be tbm solutions, they would

53:14

Noreen Hackett: be our auto fulfill, and then they are

53:17

Noreen Hackett: distributed by those distribution centers

53:21

Noreen Hackett: and then, past that, they are taken by air

53:25

Noreen Hackett: to the us. Noreen Hackett: If they are, we'll say it needs to get

53:30

Noreen Hackett: there. Noreen Hackett: We go by air, it can go by sea as well.

53:35

Tom Keogh: Here's one for Tom. Tom Keogh: I've recently started a built-on company

53:39

Tom Keogh: which is obviously in the snap game. Tom Keogh: How do I navigate?

53:43

Tom Keogh: Making impact in Ireland? Tom Keogh: And also just the food and health

53:47

Tom Keogh: regulations in Ireland, ireland, and also Tom Keogh: just the food and health regulations in

53:50

Tom Keogh: Holland, even with more meat Built on Nice.

53:55

Tom Keogh: So the reality is that, in my experience,

53:59

Tom Keogh: irish consumers do not buy meat snacks.

54:02

Tom Keogh: It's a very, very small market here.

54:04

Tom Keogh: So your opportunities are overseas, yeah,

54:07

Tom Keogh: and even the UK market is much more open to

54:11

Tom Keogh: a meat-based snack than than the irish Tom Keogh: market.

54:14

Tom Keogh: And in relation to the, the export of

54:17

Tom Keogh: meat-based products, uh, yeah, it's.

54:20

Tom Keogh: It can be difficult and obviously you're Tom Keogh: limited in certain markets uh, middle east

54:23

Tom Keogh: being one and obviously the usa. Tom Keogh: And we we've we've encountered, uh,

54:29

Tom Keogh: situations whereby, going into the USA,

54:32

Tom Keogh: even if the product does not contain meat, Tom Keogh: but it might say something like a turkey or

54:37

Tom Keogh: a steak on the product, the customs will

54:39

Tom Keogh: still put it in. Tom Keogh: So it is difficult and my advice would be

54:43

Tom Keogh: don't take any chances, because if, when

54:46

Tom Keogh: you do actually come up against customs, I

54:49

Tom Keogh: had a $50,000 bill one day from customs in

54:52

Tom Keogh: New Jersey, now, it didn't pay it, but they

54:55

Tom Keogh: tried it, yeah, does that help?

54:59

Tom Keogh: Yeah? Tom Keogh: It helps. Tom Keogh: Maybe a follow-up? Tom Keogh: Yeah, so I'm actually targeting the Irish

55:04

Tom Keogh: market because in South Africa everyone Tom Keogh: knows Bill Tom.

55:08

Tom Keogh: I am finding I'm getting a lot of positive Tom Keogh: feedback.

55:10

Tom Keogh: So I'm crafting my campaigns to sort of go

55:13

Tom Keogh: off the Irish market. Tom Keogh: What sort of messaging can I help sort of

55:17

Tom Keogh: break the stigma around? Gary Fox: meat, if you have any points on that.

55:23

Tom Keogh: I think what you need to do is get people

55:25

Tom Keogh: to try your product. Tom Keogh: If it's as good as you say, it is the only

55:28

Tom Keogh: way to get them to change their habit is to Tom Keogh: get them to try your product. Tom Keogh: If it's as good as you say. Tom Keogh: It is the only way to get them to change

55:31

Tom Keogh: their habit is to get them to try it.

55:35

Tom Keogh: And in the early days, if I had an

55:38

Tom Keogh: opportunity to sample and mass sample, I

55:41

Tom Keogh: remember giving out Shamrock crisps at the Tom Keogh: St Patrick's Day parade in Dublin and I

55:45

Tom Keogh: wasn't allowed to, but I did it anyway and

55:48

Tom Keogh: just you know, 20,000 bags of crisps around

55:52

Tom Keogh: the parade. Tom Keogh: But just to try to get people to taste your

55:56

Tom Keogh: product and if your product has that point

55:58

Tom Keogh: of difference and you feel like the Tom Keogh: feedback you've got warrants the

56:03

Tom Keogh: opportunity to do that, that's what I would

56:05

Tom Keogh: do. Tom Keogh: Get them to taste it and get them to try to Tom Keogh: change their habits, because food is like

56:10

Tom Keogh: that. Tom Keogh: You need to. Tom Keogh: Again, it's the flywheel in food.

56:13

Tom Keogh: Yeah, get a few early adopters and then

56:16

Tom Keogh: start moving. Tom Keogh: Thank you, yes.

56:20

Speaker 7: How have you dealt with the I suppose with

56:22

Speaker 7: the regulations around cosmetics, for

56:25

Speaker 7: example, with the big time, how all that Speaker 7: got recalled then because of the UHT and

56:29

Speaker 7: all this kind of thing? Noreen Hackett: How have you found dealing with all that?

56:35

Noreen Hackett: So the regulation is ever changing. Noreen Hackett: There's always changes to the different

56:39

Noreen Hackett: annexes and we just have to keep up to date

56:43

Noreen Hackett: with it, and we do that through regulatory

56:45

Noreen Hackett: compliance meetups every six months. Noreen Hackett: But I suppose if you were to take the DHA

56:50

Noreen Hackett: regulation so the DHA regulation came into

56:58

Noreen Hackett: force because the only data they had on the Noreen Hackett: DHA was at 10%. Noreen Hackett: Physically for the body it's not actually

57:00

Noreen Hackett: harmful, it's just that the data they had

57:03

Noreen Hackett: was at 10%. Noreen Hackett: And now that testing on animals is not

57:05

Noreen Hackett: allowed, we only actually test on humans. Noreen Hackett: Now that testing on animals is not allowed,

57:09

Noreen Hackett: we only actually test on humans. Noreen Hackett: So the data is only a 10%.

57:14

Noreen Hackett: So it's not that it's harmful for your body. Noreen Hackett: It's not that it's harmful or that it's

57:17

Noreen Hackett: absorbed badly into your body. Noreen Hackett: It just means that that's the data they had.

57:21

Noreen Hackett: So how we dealt with that was there's Noreen Hackett: usually about three years when we get

57:27

Noreen Hackett: flagged that the regulation is going to be Noreen Hackett: written into regulation.

57:31

Noreen Hackett: Then the year after we have to stop

57:35

Noreen Hackett: formulating to that regulation and then the

57:37

Noreen Hackett: year after again we have to stop

57:41

Noreen Hackett: manufacturing the product and then the year Noreen Hackett: after again we have to pull out products

57:44

Noreen Hackett: from the market. Noreen Hackett: So generally there is no recall of the

57:47

Noreen Hackett: products. Noreen Hackett: It's usually dealt with with. Noreen Hackett: The brand actually brings them back

57:50

Noreen Hackett: themselves or we produce a new product by

57:53

Noreen Hackett: the time. Noreen Hackett: So all so, we deal with one of the biggest

57:57

Noreen Hackett: I actually formulated for nearly all the Noreen Hackett: self-talent brands in ireland, so we had to

58:02

Noreen Hackett: reformulate all the products. Noreen Hackett: They were all up on 16 dhaHA for the

58:06

Noreen Hackett: UltraDarks, so it was a huge challenge to

58:10

Noreen Hackett: take away 6% of a product and try and give

58:13

Noreen Hackett: the colour payoff. Noreen Hackett: To be the same. Noreen Hackett: I'm sure everyone I appreciate that, yeah,

58:19

Noreen Hackett: I appreciate that. Noreen Hackett: The girls definitely did anyway.

58:23

Noreen Hackett: So that's what we did. Noreen Hackett: We reformulated it, but in doing that it

58:28

Noreen Hackett: actually became a more interesting product

58:31

Noreen Hackett: again, because there was a point when we

58:34

Noreen Hackett: just kept adding more DHA to it and the Noreen Hackett: tans became darker.

58:38

Noreen Hackett: It challenged us to add different materials

58:41

Noreen Hackett: and it challenged us to make it more skin

58:43

Noreen Hackett: friendly, and so we came up with a solution

58:47

Noreen Hackett: of two or three different materials along Noreen Hackett: with DHA at around 10 percent in order to

58:53

Noreen Hackett: give that payoff. Noreen Hackett: But it was actually.

58:55

Noreen Hackett: It was great for the skin because it was

58:57

Noreen Hackett: more kind on the skin as well and, yeah, I

59:01

Noreen Hackett: think we got the color payoff right in the Noreen Hackett: ultra darks, which, if you can tell me.

59:07

Speaker 7: I'm sorry because, if you don't mind, do

59:09

Speaker 7: you find it easy to? Speaker 7: I suppose working with lots of different

59:12

Speaker 7: brands, they all have their USPs and what Speaker 7: they want to sell and their products.

59:16

Speaker 7: But do you find it easy to kind of give Speaker 7: them, I suppose, different products even

59:20

Speaker 7: though it's the same, or different Speaker 7: formulations even though it's the same?

59:24

Noreen Hackett: yeah. Noreen Hackett: So each and every brand owner is very

59:27

Noreen Hackett: different in what they want, in the way Noreen Hackett: they want to sell their product, in the way

59:30

Noreen Hackett: that they want the product to work in the

59:33

Noreen Hackett: sense, overall products, parts of the

59:35

Noreen Hackett: product as well and so having a

59:39

Noreen Hackett: relationship as I was saying earlier with Noreen Hackett: the brand owner is very important, and

59:44

Noreen Hackett: knowing their likes and, more importantly, Noreen Hackett: their dislikes is very important too.

59:48

Noreen Hackett: So each and every product we develop is

59:51

Noreen Hackett: developed in line with what the customer Noreen Hackett: wants.

59:54

Noreen Hackett: We might come up with an idea and they'd Noreen Hackett: say, well, I don't think we should do it

59:57

Noreen Hackett: this way, or maybe we should do another one

59:59

Noreen Hackett: this way, and we might come up with two Noreen Hackett: different products. Noreen Hackett: But every entrepreneur is different.

1:00:04

Noreen Hackett: Every single person who develops a product

1:00:06

Noreen Hackett: or an idea or a business. Noreen Hackett: They're going to do it in their own way,

1:00:09

Noreen Hackett: and it's the same thing when it comes to Noreen Hackett: product development.

1:00:12

Noreen Hackett: We do it for a specific brand or usps.

1:00:17

Noreen Hackett: But, yeah, we're always trying to innovate Noreen Hackett: and we've we've key people in supply chain

1:00:23

Noreen Hackett: in order to be ahead. Noreen Hackett: Now we're developing products for 2026 and

1:00:27

Noreen Hackett: we're manufacturing for christmas already, Noreen Hackett: so, and we have to be ahead of the trends.

1:00:32

Noreen Hackett: So that's how kind of we do it. Gary Fox: Um, yeah, okay, we'll take yourself all

1:00:38

Gary Fox: right. Speaker 5: So you were talking a lot about how your

1:00:42

Speaker 5: messaging is the truth when you're talking

1:00:44

Speaker 5: about the brand and how that sets you apart. Speaker 5: How do you make sure that that actually

1:00:48

Speaker 5: happens, that what you're saying is what

1:00:51

Speaker 5: you're doing, because you're referencing a Speaker 5: lot of other brands as well who are just

1:00:54

Speaker 5: putting something on their packaging and Speaker 5: it's not really what is in there.

1:00:57

Speaker 5: So how? Speaker 5: Do you make? Speaker 5: Sure that that kind of synergy continues to

1:01:00

Speaker 5: happen as their business grows and the Speaker 5: brand evolves just keep telling the truth.

1:01:06

Tom Keogh: That's that's it, yeah, and and don't, you

1:01:09

Tom Keogh: know, don't? Tom Keogh: That's that's it, yeah, and and don't you

1:01:14

Tom Keogh: don't, I suppose, realize you don't need to Tom Keogh: go outside of that to get a sale or to make Tom Keogh: a claim.

1:01:16

Tom Keogh: Just be comfortable in your own shoes, yeah,

1:01:19

Tom Keogh: and eventually it'll, it'll start to work,

1:01:22

Tom Keogh: yeah, thank you hi.

1:01:27

Speaker 6: Um, you touched on the mass sampling, but I

1:01:30

Speaker 6: feel like as a small business owner who now

1:01:33

Speaker 6: has my own product line and stuff, I'm

1:01:35

Speaker 6: always in two minds between I want everyone

1:01:38

Speaker 6: to try the product, but I also don't have

1:01:40

Speaker 6: the funds to be able to give everything for Speaker 6: free.

1:01:44

Speaker 6: And I want to know where's the point where Speaker 6: you've done the supplying and letting

1:01:47

Speaker 6: people sample it? Speaker 6: But, and kind of letting people sample it,

1:01:50

Speaker 6: but now I'm like, okay, now I need to stop Speaker 6: and kind of start the kind of sales point

1:01:54

Speaker 6: of view again. Speaker 6: Where is that kind of divide?

1:01:57

Speaker 6: Or when, when do I make my mind up about

1:01:59

Speaker 6: that? Tom Keogh: um, well, I suppose you need to cut your

1:02:02

Tom Keogh: cloth to soothe. Tom Keogh: So you know, obviously there's there's,

1:02:06

Tom Keogh: there's a, there's a, there's a sampling

1:02:08

Tom Keogh: campaign that suits your scale and just be

1:02:11

Tom Keogh: comfortable with that. Tom Keogh: But the most important thing, just make

1:02:17

Tom Keogh: sure you're hitting the right people, Tom Keogh: because there's so many people will go out

1:02:20

Tom Keogh: like you see the big, big food and drink

1:02:23

Tom Keogh: brands and they'll just stop the street and

1:02:26

Tom Keogh: give them all a free can. Tom Keogh: That's not going to work for you.

1:02:29

Tom Keogh: You need to be extremely targeted. Tom Keogh: You need to know exactly who your customer

1:02:33

Tom Keogh: is, where they are, and make sure you're

1:02:36

Tom Keogh: getting them to try your product. Tom Keogh: And keep doing that.

1:02:40

Tom Keogh: And as your brand grows and your product

1:02:42

Tom Keogh: range grows, just widen that out.

1:02:46

Tom Keogh: But it is a very, very effective way of

1:02:49

Tom Keogh: getting people to buy your product again. Tom Keogh: And when they do try your product, make

1:02:55

Tom Keogh: sure you give them a way to buy that Tom Keogh: product, be that a voucher or an e-comm

1:03:01

Tom Keogh: address, whatever it is, but just make sure

1:03:03

Tom Keogh: there is a buyback, a buyback option on it.

1:03:06

Tom Keogh: Yeah, thank you, do one more.

1:03:10

Speaker 3: I was wondering. Speaker 3: It seems that you work with so many brands.

1:03:13

Speaker 3: How does the intellectual property work Speaker 3: with each blend of products you make for

1:03:18

Speaker 3: everyone? Speaker 3: Do you own it, or is it in the contract

1:03:21

Speaker 3: that they can take to another manufacturer?

1:03:24

Speaker 3: A little bit about that would be great, Speaker 3: Thank you. Noreen Hackett: So once we develop and test the product and

1:03:28

Noreen Hackett: we release it to the brands, the brand owns Noreen Hackett: the full IP and formula of that product.

1:03:33

Noreen Hackett: So yeah, they can go to any manufacturer in

1:03:36

Noreen Hackett: the world. Noreen Hackett: Now, obviously we prefer it was us. Noreen Hackett: But yeah, I think I structured the business

1:03:42

Noreen Hackett: that way because I prefer someone to want

1:03:46

Noreen Hackett: to work with us than to have to make them

1:03:48

Noreen Hackett: work with us, because eventually you know

1:03:51

Noreen Hackett: they'll go out to work with us, than to Noreen Hackett: have to make them work with us Because Noreen Hackett: eventually you know they'll go out of Noreen Hackett: contract with us if they really want to.

1:03:55

Noreen Hackett: So, yeah, the IP belongs to the brand.

1:03:58

Gary Fox: Does that make sense? Gary Fox: I do.

1:04:01

Gary Fox: This is the last, last one. Speaker 6: Just as someone who's in the lash industry

1:04:06

Speaker 6: I'm kind of targeted towards, obviously,

1:04:08

Speaker 6: lash techs and stuff. Speaker 6: So just for yourself, have you ever thought

1:04:12

Speaker 6: about getting into the lash industry and Speaker 6: kind of that kind of route of things,

1:04:15

Speaker 6: because I feel like it's became such a big Speaker 6: thing.

1:04:17

Speaker 6: Obviously we're dealing with a lot of Speaker 6: overseas, so like Korea, singapore and you

1:04:22

Speaker 6: know I feel like that's the communication Speaker 6: can be quite hard.

1:04:25

Speaker 6: So I'd just be interested have you ever Speaker 6: thought of that? Noreen Hackett: So we can only manufacture what are called

1:04:30

Noreen Hackett: wet cosmetics, and so we wouldn't be into

1:04:34

Noreen Hackett: any sort of um, let's say, eyelashes.

1:04:36

Noreen Hackett: We it's not that we're not into it, we Noreen Hackett: don't have the facilities to make it.

1:04:40

Noreen Hackett: And, however, if I was to give you advice

1:04:43

Noreen Hackett: about sourcing from China or Korea, I would

1:04:49

Noreen Hackett: advise you to go there. Noreen Hackett: There are people as well who give you

1:04:53

Noreen Hackett: advice on good suppliers. Noreen Hackett: I mean, I can put you in contact with

1:04:59

Noreen Hackett: someone who has bought quite a lot of

1:05:01

Noreen Hackett: lashes, so it would be an idea to go over

1:05:05

Noreen Hackett: there and just be on the ground with the Noreen Hackett: staff, and then they can put a face to the

1:05:10

Noreen Hackett: name of the person who's ringing them, Noreen Hackett: annoying them all the time about lashes.

1:05:14

Noreen Hackett: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Noreen Hackett: You meet people there.

1:05:17

Noreen Hackett: Yeah, it's like perfect, because it's Noreen Hackett: obviously only in italy and they're from

1:05:20

Noreen Hackett: korea, so it's yeah, exactly, and that's a Noreen Hackett: great meeting point for people because they

1:05:24

Noreen Hackett: yeah, that's where all of our clients would Noreen Hackett: go.

1:05:27

Noreen Hackett: Yeah, exactly, and just when you're Noreen Hackett: bringing in product from China or Korea,

1:05:31

Noreen Hackett: just make sure you check the compliance of

1:05:33

Noreen Hackett: it. Noreen Hackett: Everything is usually fine, but just double

1:05:36

Noreen Hackett: check that the compliance is fine with it

1:05:39

Noreen Hackett: when you're bringing it in. Gary Fox: Thank you so much.

1:05:41

Gary Fox: I'm sure the guys will hang around for Gary Fox: another couple of questions after, but I'm

1:05:44

Gary Fox: going to. Gary Fox: In conscious people's time, we're going to Gary Fox: wrap it right here.

1:05:46

Gary Fox: People's time, we're going to wrap it right Gary Fox: here. Gary Fox: Can you please thank first of all the local

1:05:49

Gary Fox: enterprise officers put this together and Gary Fox: I'll remind you again, the local enterprise

1:05:52

Gary Fox: weeks from the 3rd to 7th of March this Gary Fox: year be tons of events just like this

1:05:56

Gary Fox: happening, so it's good to go check them Gary Fox: out. Gary Fox: And then big round of applause to Tom and

1:06:00

Gary Fox: Noreen for an incredible hour.