0:01

is it about Dana -Farber that makes

0:03

it such a powerful adversary against cancer?

0:05

It's hundreds of Dana -Farber researchers

0:08

and clinicians making new discoveries

0:10

inspired by the work of

0:12

previous Dana -Farber discoverers. At

0:14

Dana -Farber Cancer Institute, nothing

0:16

is as effective against cancer

0:18

as a relentless succession of

0:21

breakthroughs. Go to Dana -Farber .org

0:23

slash stories and see how

0:25

what we do here changes

0:27

lives everywhere. Good

0:35

morning, I'm Taylor Wilson, and

0:37

today is Wednesday, April 23,

0:39

2025. This is The

0:41

Exit. Today,

0:44

what's next after the death of Pope

0:46

Francis, plus a major overhaul of the State

0:48

Department might be on the way, and we discuss

0:50

the latest on a pair of deported men

0:52

in El Salvador. In

0:56

the wake of Pope Francis' passing, we

0:58

now move toward his funeral set for

1:00

Saturday, and later a conclave when the next

1:02

pope will be selected. I spoke with

1:04

USA Today National Correspondent, Marco de la

1:06

Cava, who previously covered a pair of

1:08

conclaves to learn more about what's next. Hello,

1:11

Marco. Thanks for joining me on this. Yeah, my

1:13

pleasure. So tell us a bit

1:15

first about your experience covering conclaves and

1:17

even a papal funeral. Yeah, well

1:19

I was sent over to Rome by

1:22

USA Today when John Paul II was ailing

1:24

and I think he literally died when

1:26

I landed and so I ended up covering

1:28

his funeral about a week later in

1:30

St. Peter's Square, which is very dramatic. And

1:33

then I stayed on for a couple

1:35

of weeks as the conclave unfolded

1:37

that then elected Pope... And

1:39

then I went back a dozen

1:41

years ago because Benedict rather abruptly

1:43

decided to sort of retire. And

1:46

so I went back and

1:48

covered the election of the late

1:50

Pope Francis. Wow. And

1:52

so what really stood out to you, Marco,

1:54

from those reporting trips? Well, it's a

1:56

combination of things. It's sort of how political

1:59

the actual voting ends up being, as

2:01

many people might have gleaned

2:03

from watching the movie Conclave, which

2:05

Oscar nominated this year. It

2:07

does a pretty accurate job of

2:09

talking about the different factions. One

2:12

person in the end, one cardinal in

2:14

the end, has to get two -thirds

2:16

of the votes. So it's all the

2:18

jockeying to get that person all of

2:20

those votes. That's all happening under Lock

2:22

and Key and the Sistine Chapel and the

2:24

Vatican dormitories. You don't know anything of

2:26

what's going on during that time. But

2:28

on the outside, you've got all the

2:30

faithful, the pilgrims, which this year actually is

2:33

amazing. It's the Jubilee year for the

2:35

Vatican, for the Catholic Church. which

2:37

they've been preparing for for a year.

2:39

And it's where they invite Catholic pilgrims

2:41

from all over the world to just

2:43

come to Rome. So it's going to

2:45

be an amazing sight with all the

2:47

crowds gathering out front and then waiting

2:49

as that smoke goes from black to

2:51

white. And the white smoke means that

2:53

they've actually picked a pope. All

2:55

right. And in terms of what to

2:57

expect this week, Marco, we now know

3:00

the funeral will be Saturday. World leaders

3:02

and others expected to descend on Rome

3:04

for this. What else should we expect

3:06

for the funeral? Well, the funeral apparently

3:08

will be in St. Peter's Square, which

3:10

is exactly where the one for John

3:12

Paul II was. His casket sort of

3:14

made the rounds in the square, and

3:16

people were very moved, many of them

3:18

trying to touch the casket, so that

3:21

actual funeral. procession and

3:23

then the funeral mass

3:25

outside, very dramatic, very

3:27

filled with tradition and

3:29

amazing pageantry. And then

3:31

when that's over, basically

3:33

a bit of quiet probably after

3:35

that and then once all the

3:37

Cardinals, 252 of them arrive in

3:39

Rome, those who don't already live

3:41

there, then they start going into

3:44

the conclave and then you'll see

3:46

people gathering every day in the

3:48

square. waiting for that smoke. usually

3:50

twice a day. In my experience, it was two

3:52

votes a day. Wow. In terms of

3:54

just functionally, as you mentioned this Conclave movie

3:57

last year, the timing of all this is

3:59

really fascinating. Folks have been talking about this

4:01

process for months. What will

4:03

it functionally look like this time

4:05

around, Marco? And what can you tell

4:07

us about the expected timeline here?

4:09

Well, timeline -wise, typically the conclave starts,

4:11

you know, call it 15, 20 days

4:13

or so after the funeral. It

4:15

sort of allows everyone to sort of

4:17

get settled and situated. And then

4:19

once they start gathering and meeting and

4:21

then actually taking the votes, you

4:23

literally know nothing other than that smoke.

4:25

Now, you know, in Rome, you've

4:27

got lots of newspaper reporters who literally

4:29

only write about the Vatican, and

4:32

they're going to be spinning all sorts

4:34

of conjectures about who the front

4:36

runners are. Is it somebody that's going

4:38

to be progressive like Pope Francis

4:40

was, or is it somebody who's going

4:42

to be more conservative? I've

4:44

already read suggestions that they might go

4:46

with a cardinal who's got a lot

4:48

of international experience. There's one gentleman who's

4:50

spent a lot of time in the

4:52

Middle East, and that might be somebody

4:54

they might go with given all the

4:56

world events. So it'll be interesting to

4:58

see which way they go. And there

5:00

hasn't been an Italian pope in a

5:03

while, and typically Italian popes are something.

5:05

Well, the Italians certainly like. It should

5:07

be a fascinating next few weeks. Marco

5:09

de la Cava is a national correspondent

5:11

with USA Today. Thank you, Marco. You

5:13

bet. The

5:16

Trump administration is proposing a major

5:18

overhaul of the State Department. The move

5:20

would eliminate more than a hundred

5:22

offices, including some working on war crimes

5:24

and rights advocacy. to ensure the

5:26

agency is in line with Trump's America

5:28

first priorities. The plan would

5:31

eliminate 132 of the department's

5:33

734 bureaus and offices, according to

5:35

an internal State Department memo seen

5:37

by Reuters. Undersecretaries will

5:39

submit plans to reduce staff by 15%.

5:41

The shakeup comes after thousands of

5:43

government employees have already been laid off

5:45

as part of Trump and Elon

5:48

Musk's efforts to shrink the federal government.

5:54

Eight artificial dyes will be eliminated

5:56

from medications and the nation's food

5:59

supply by the end of 2026.

6:01

That includes those found in candy,

6:03

ice cream, soft drinks, and jams,

6:05

according to Health Secretary Robert F.

6:07

Kennedy Jr. The artificial dyes,

6:09

detailed during a news conference yesterday, are

6:11

used to offset color loss due to

6:13

exposure to light, temperature extremes, as well

6:15

as to provide color to colorless and

6:17

fun foods, according to the Food and

6:19

Drug Administration. For years, Kennedy

6:21

has railed against so -called big food

6:23

and big pharma, and blamed what he's

6:25

called the nation's chronic disease epidemic

6:28

on additives and junk food, including during

6:30

his campaign for president and the

6:32

2024 Democratic primaries, and then as an

6:34

independent. After endorse President

6:36

Donald Trump, Trump incorporated those ideas into

6:38

his own campaign, and they're

6:40

now part of the new administration's Make America

6:42

Healthy Again agenda. A study

6:44

by California's Environmental Protection Agency

6:46

in 2021 linked consumption of

6:48

synthetic food dyes to hyperactivity

6:50

and other neuro -behavioral problems

6:53

in some children. Some more

6:55

studies also previously prompted the European

6:57

Union to restrict food coloring. Lawmakers

7:03

are pushing for answers on a

7:05

Venezuelan stylist and asylum seeker sent

7:07

to El Salvador. I spoke with

7:09

USA Today investigative reporter Nick Penn's

7:11

installer to learn more about Andre

7:13

Jose Hernandez and for some of

7:15

the latest on another deported man,

7:17

Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Nick,

7:19

hi, sir. Hey, thanks for having

7:21

me on. Thanks for hopping on.

7:23

So just starting with this, who is

7:25

Andre Jose Hernandez and what's his

7:28

deportation story? So we know about him

7:30

as the 31 -year -old hairstylist from

7:32

Venezuela. He came to the

7:34

United States and claimed asylum as

7:36

part of protective class, being a

7:38

gay member in Venezuela and says

7:40

he was discriminated against. So he

7:42

came here seeking asylum and then

7:44

was recently sent to El Salvador

7:46

as part of this recent roundup.

7:48

All right. So how and why

7:50

are lawmakers really pushing for his

7:52

release? So he is one that

7:54

has been alleged to have been

7:56

tied to this trend, our Agua criminal

7:58

gang. And insists that he

8:00

is not. And it seems like the

8:03

biggest allegation is that he had these

8:05

tattoos that tied him to that gang.

8:07

He insists that tattoos have nothing to

8:09

do with the gang and they're a

8:11

reference to his mother and father. But

8:13

nonetheless, he is in this infamous

8:15

prison in El Salvador. Tell us

8:17

about Core Civic. What is this and

8:19

how does it enter this story? Hernandez

8:21

was detained and questioned at

8:23

this Ote Mesa Detention Center,

8:26

which is run by Core

8:28

Civic, a private detention center

8:30

group, and in part of

8:32

their screening process, they alleged

8:34

he was a member of the

8:36

Trenderagua gang. Despite his insistence

8:39

that he wasn't, they noted that

8:41

he had these tattoos. And

8:43

they signed a report saying so. And

8:46

the people who worked on that

8:48

report among them was this Charles

8:50

Cross Jr. We were backgrounding and

8:52

discovered was a former Milwaukee police

8:54

officer who was fired in 2012

8:56

after a string of misdeeds and

8:59

he had a misdemeanor criminal case.

9:01

So he's now working for Corsivic and

9:03

was involved with this man who

9:06

was then later deported by ICE. Okay,

9:08

and in terms of the administration's

9:10

perspective here and also just, I guess,

9:12

what we hear from Corsivic, what

9:14

do we hear from both of those

9:16

camps? We should mention that Robert

9:18

Garcia, the Democratic lawmaker from California, has

9:21

kind of attached himself to this

9:23

case and he's lobbying for Hernandez's return.

9:25

He has now sent these oversight letters

9:28

to both ICE and Corsivic wanting

9:30

to know more about this process. So

9:32

ICE has said that he was

9:34

correctly identified as a member of this

9:36

gang and deported. Corsivic has

9:38

said they do this screening

9:40

for the gang affiliations as part

9:42

of their safety protocol, and

9:44

that any decisions for deportation are

9:46

made by ICE and not

9:48

relying on their evaluations. You

9:50

know, Democratic lawmakers traveled to El Salvador

9:52

this week. This, of course, comes after

9:54

another Democratic lawmaker that was Senator Chris

9:56

Van Hollen went last week and met

9:59

with another deported man, Kilmora Brego Garcia.

10:01

What can you tell us about this

10:03

week's Lawmaker Trip, Nick? And how is

10:05

it now part of a broader push,

10:07

I guess, from U .S. lawmakers making these

10:09

in -person visits to Central America? Right.

10:12

So there's this group of four Democratic

10:14

lawmakers that went down there this week

10:16

to push for their return. They were

10:18

meeting with Salvadoran officials and the U .S.

10:20

Embassy to see what was being done,

10:22

if anything, to... facilitate the return of

10:24

these folks. They have said that

10:26

they're going to do everything they can to try

10:28

to push for these answers. But I think a lot

10:30

of this is going to come down to what

10:32

the courts say. And speaking of Kilmar, I mean, he

10:34

was, of course, a big part of this conversation

10:36

last week and the week prior. What's

10:38

the latest on him, Nick? His

10:40

attorneys arguing that the government is failing

10:42

to turn over some of the

10:44

information they're seeking. This is the discovery,

10:47

and it's the expedited discovery phase,

10:49

as Judge Zinnis has said, where she

10:51

wants a fast response from the

10:53

government to lay out what evidence they

10:55

have, what authorities they're quoting, and

10:57

what they're relying on to keep him abroad.

10:59

And this has come to a little bit

11:01

of a pinch point where his attorneys say

11:03

the government has not produced this. The

11:05

government says they have. and they

11:08

want a hearing from the judge. The

11:10

judge ordered the government to provide

11:12

more information, and she had some pretty

11:14

strong language calling it willful and

11:16

a bad faith refusal to comply with

11:18

her orders. And she

11:20

has ordered them to respond by

11:22

6 p .m. Wednesday with better

11:24

answers. All right, Nick Pence -Astowler is

11:27

an investigative reporter with USA Today. Thank

11:29

you, Nick. Thank you. Tesla

11:33

CEO Elon Musk said he would

11:36

soon be spending less time with the

11:38

Trump administration after first quarter earnings

11:40

fell short of expectations. Net

11:42

income for the quarter was down 71

11:44

percent at Tesla after a decline

11:46

in vehicle deliveries with the company battling

11:48

growing competition from foreign brands, shifting

11:50

trade policies and growing backlash to the

11:52

brand after Musk aligned himself with

11:54

the Trump administration. The slump

11:57

comes as Tesla, along with other

11:59

automakers, adjust to auto tariffs imposed

12:01

by President Donald Trump. In a

12:03

Tuesday financial report, Tesla said rapidly

12:05

evolving trade policy has impacted the

12:07

global supply chain and the company's

12:09

cost structure. While Tesla assembles

12:11

its vehicles in the U .S., the automaker

12:13

is exposed to tariffs because it imports

12:15

parts from other countries. One

12:18

of President Donald Trump's more controversial

12:20

cabinet appointments was Robert F. Kennedy

12:22

Jr. for Secretary of Health and

12:24

Human Services. Health experts are

12:26

now weighing in on his tenure so far

12:28

with some strong criticisms. What

12:30

we've seen so far from the

12:32

secretary who says that he's interested in

12:35

chronic disease, he's basically come in

12:37

and wiped out all the expertise that

12:39

the Centers for Disease Control has

12:41

focused on chronic disease. That

12:43

was former acting CDC director Dr.

12:45

Richard Bresser. Dr. Bresser joined my colleague

12:47

Dana Taylor to talk through some

12:49

of the medical community's concerns. You

12:51

can find that episode right here beginning at

12:53

4 p .m. Eastern time. Thanks for

12:55

listening to the excerpts. Get the podcast

12:57

wherever you get your audio. And

13:00

if you use a smart speaker, just ask

13:02

for the excerpt. I'm Taylor Wilson. I'll

13:04

be back tomorrow with more of the excerpt

13:06

from USA Today. What

13:15

is it that makes Dana Farber

13:18

such a powerful adversary against cancer?

13:20

In a word, it's momentum. It's

13:23

Dr. Stephen Hody attacking

13:25

metastatic melanoma through multiple

13:27

pathways, inspired by Dr.

13:29

Gordon Freeman's PDL -1

13:31

findings that revolutionized immunotherapy. It's

13:34

Dr. Stanley Korsmeyer identifying

13:36

cancer survival protein, BCL

13:38

-2. Dr. Anthony

13:40

Latai using that knowledge to

13:42

fight chronic lymphocytic leukemia.

13:45

Dr. Jacqueline Garcia applying these

13:47

breakthroughs to treat acute

13:49

myeloid leukemia. and its

13:51

hundreds of other Dana -Farber researchers

13:53

and clinicians making new discoveries

13:55

inspired by the work of

13:57

previous Dana -Farber discoverers. At

13:59

Dana -Farber Cancer Institute. Nothing

14:02

is as effective against cancer

14:04

as a relentless succession of

14:06

breakthroughs. Go to Dana -Farber .org

14:08

slash stories see how what

14:10

we do here changes lives everywhere.