0:03

Hi everyone, thank you for joining the

0:05

fight with Teddy Atlas. I'm Teddy Atlas

0:07

III, joined by international boxing holofamer, the

0:10

pugilistic poet, my father

0:12

and main man, Teddy Atlas. How you

0:14

doing today, bud? My

0:16

head's growing by the moment.

0:18

Every time I hear

0:20

you give these

0:22

superlatives that

0:25

carry over

0:27

from Easter, maybe,

0:30

you just... a little extra

0:32

love. I appreciate it. I

0:36

appreciate you,

0:38

appreciate everybody out there

0:40

joining us. I

0:43

hope everybody had

0:45

a good Easter, everybody who

0:47

celebrates that holiday. I hope

0:49

you had a good Easter.

0:52

And for the people that celebrate

0:54

Passover, I hope that the

0:56

same, that that

0:58

is a healthy, good

1:02

celebration for everybody

1:04

and everybody out there

1:06

whatever your denomination of

1:08

your belief or your

1:11

religion your you know

1:13

whatever it is or

1:15

what you don't practice whatever

1:17

but I hope

1:19

everybody is as well

1:22

I hope everybody

1:24

is having a good

1:26

just a good um a

1:28

good healthy celebration

1:31

of life, everybody.

1:34

So let's do

1:36

some boxing. I know

1:38

my grandson out there is

1:40

hopefully he didn't have a

1:42

stomach ache because his papa

1:44

sent him a pretty big

1:47

basket of candy. The

1:49

bigger the better. I wanted

1:51

to make him happy. I wanted

1:54

to get his attention. I

1:56

don't see him enough. So

1:58

I hope he's... I hope I

2:00

didn't upset his mother

2:02

by sending him a

2:04

little bit too much.

2:07

Yeah, he got the biggest Easter basket I've

2:09

ever seen in my life. I think a

2:11

lot of kids will be thanking you as

2:13

well because we are sharing it. He can't

2:15

eat it all. And she might be

2:18

upset when he heads to that dentist. We

2:20

will find out soon. But we

2:22

had a great Easter. Send me

2:24

the bill. Send me the bill. I'm

2:27

glad you guys, I'm glad

2:29

everything went good. And

2:31

we have some fights to

2:33

talk about, we got some

2:35

previews to talk about coming

2:38

up. So let's get

2:40

to it. Yeah, we had two

2:42

cards from the UK, two separate cards

2:44

from the UK, and we had a

2:46

boxing card in California in the States.

2:48

So we will start off first on

2:50

Saturday from the UK, live on the

2:52

zone. That was Dalton Smith fighting Matthew

2:54

Germain. Dalton Smith. WBC

2:56

ranked number one contender now at

2:59

the 140 pound division. That's Alberto pollo's

3:01

belt He came into this fight

3:03

a 15 to 1 favorite and by

3:05

the time it closed. He was

3:07

a 50 to 1 favorite Never really

3:09

in doubt this fight. He was

3:11

fully in control He did drop Jermaine

3:14

three times in route to winning

3:16

a unanimous shutout decision But not a

3:18

ton of action Jermaine was in

3:20

survival mode Credit to him for overcoming

3:22

the knockdowns and seeing it to

3:24

the distance But Dalton Smith gets the

3:27

win. He is now the number

3:29

one contender, as just said, to fight

3:31

Alberto Puello. Puello is going to

3:33

be fighting Subrio Matias, which was announced this weekend.

3:35

So he's going to have to wait that out

3:37

before we find out. But I just

3:39

want to see your thoughts. What you thought

3:41

of Dalton Smith. He's proven to be that

3:43

level at the English domestic level. Is he

3:45

world class level? I

3:48

don't know if he is yet. I mean,

3:50

he looked he looks good. I mean. You

3:53

know, he's been in a safe

3:55

environment. He's been really, Eddie Hearn's

3:57

done a magnificent job with him,

4:00

developing him, building him, choosing

4:02

his opponents. They've

4:04

done a, you know, they've carefully

4:07

matched him, which is not

4:09

unusual when you have somebody that

4:11

you can build up and

4:13

somebody where you have a powerful

4:15

promoter behind them and they

4:17

do their job. It's...

4:19

not a knock on him.

4:22

Everybody does it, you know. The

4:24

guys, whether you see them

4:26

on the zone, whether you're seeing

4:28

them on ESPN, no

4:30

matter who the promoter is, if they

4:32

have a promoter worth assault, they all

4:34

get built up. They all get carefully

4:36

navigated for the most part. Look.

4:39

The more I see how carefully

4:41

navigated these guys are, the

4:43

more respect I have. Well, no,

4:45

I shouldn't say that because

4:47

I couldn't have more respect. The

4:49

fighters from the 80s and

4:51

70s and those fighters, forget about

4:53

going way back when they

4:55

fought everybody. But whether was

4:57

to dealer Hoyers, to Sugar

4:59

Ray Lenitz, Tommy Hearns, these

5:01

guys, they came out

5:03

of the amateurs with a good

5:05

pedigree, just like the guys

5:07

today. They fought

5:10

better fighters sooner. They

5:12

got in there with better fighters alive. remember,

5:14

I remember De La Hoya fighting

5:16

John John Molina and it wasn't that

5:18

many fights into his career. John

5:21

John Molina was a hell of a

5:23

solid fighter and an Olympian or

5:25

at least I think an Olympian, at

5:27

least I think he won the

5:29

world championships representing Puerto Rico and the

5:31

averages. Point is that

5:33

the more it reminds me of

5:35

how these fighters that

5:37

were the fighters of that day

5:40

fought better fighters so much

5:42

sooner than they do today. But

5:45

look, Dorton Smith, it's

5:47

that time now. His

5:49

time is up. It's time

5:51

to make that step up. So

5:53

we will be finding out

5:55

whether or not he is just

5:57

a product of his environment, of

6:00

a great matchmaking. grew

6:03

great promoter, or if there's more

6:05

to him, we'll see soon. I'm

6:08

not sold on him. I'm not

6:10

against him, but I'm not sold.

6:12

To me, in some ways, he

6:14

reminds me of that beautiful cake

6:16

that comes out of Darwin. I

6:19

mean, he stands up, he looks pretty,

6:21

you know, and I don't mean that

6:23

in a, you know... I

6:26

mean, he looks like the prototypical

6:28

fighter. Like, if you had a

6:30

postcard of a fighter, you'd put

6:33

him on a postcard, stand straight

6:35

up, you know, everything tucks up

6:37

nice, you know, and then the

6:39

cake comes out of the oven

6:41

the same way. Beautiful, standing up

6:43

nice, sturdy, and then you cut

6:45

into it, and you start to

6:48

take a bite, and it just...

6:50

be missing just a couple of

6:52

things. Just just a

6:54

little something. I don't know. We

6:56

haven't taken a bite into

6:58

that cake yet. So so I'm

7:00

just wondering if that's the

7:02

case because He looks through

7:04

the part, but he stands straight up.

7:06

He gets hit with a clean

7:08

shot sometimes by a guy who wasn't

7:11

really looking to engage much. You

7:13

said it right. His opponent was looking

7:15

from the most part. Look, second

7:17

round he gets dropped with a nice

7:19

clean left hook. Nice compact left

7:21

hook. Actually, actually, Smith gets hit

7:23

a punch and then comes right back with

7:25

a left hook, which is what you're supposed to

7:27

do. Jermaine didn't do

7:29

what he was supposed to do. He posed.

7:31

He didn't move his head. So he caught him

7:33

a nice short compact left hook, dropped him, and

7:36

he survived. It was towards the

7:38

end of the round. He survived. And

7:40

then he got on his bike. I

7:42

don't know if dads would convince them

7:44

not to try to fight more

7:46

to win, but Jermaine was fighting in

7:48

spots, surviving. Not easy to look

7:50

good against a guy like that. What

7:52

I was a little concerned about

7:55

with Dalton is that I thought he

7:57

could have done more. I thought

7:59

it got to a point where it

8:01

was obvious that Jermaine wasn't there

8:03

really to take chances, where if he

8:05

would have closed the gap with

8:07

a little more consistency, a little more

8:09

vigor, just a little more

8:11

commitment. You know, he closed it

8:13

in spots and then he went back

8:15

out. You know, he didn't do

8:17

what he could have done or should

8:19

have done. I felt like with

8:21

this opponent, maybe he should have got

8:23

rid of him. Went to the

8:26

body more, used the jab more, maybe

8:28

jabbed to the chest more, stabilized

8:30

the guy on the outside so he

8:32

can't pot shot you, you know,

8:34

close the gap and stay there and

8:36

get the job finished. I saw

8:38

a lot of single shots with Dalton.

8:40

Look, I'm not looking to knock

8:42

one of the fighters from one of

8:44

my favorite places in the world

8:47

across the pond. No. Please,

8:49

guys, enjoy your crumpets today.

8:51

Don't let Teddy Atlas throw

8:53

a wrinkle into that. Not

8:55

at all. I'm just saying

8:57

that I still want to see more. I

9:00

don't know if he's ready

9:02

for that next step. Now, that

9:04

next step, you know, it's

9:06

not a Mount Everest step. I

9:08

mean, Puello, I think...

9:10

he wins against Matthias, either

9:12

one of them will be a

9:15

significant step for Smith. Paolo,

9:17

the one thing about him is he

9:19

had a real tight fight in his last

9:21

fight. He won a

9:23

split decision. He can

9:25

be a guy that sometimes

9:28

is looking to counter, sometimes

9:30

he fought a counter punch

9:32

in his last fight. And

9:34

there were spots where Paolo

9:36

got out, worked. That

9:38

That would make me feel

9:40

good about if I had Smith,

9:42

because Pirello, not the busiest,

9:44

most consistent guy offensively, but a good

9:47

solid fighter. And like I said, I think

9:49

it was against Martin in his last

9:51

fight, where he won us It was Sander

9:53

Martin. Yeah, Martin's purely

9:55

mostly a counterpuncher. So to have

9:57

a close fight in there

9:59

shows you Pirello can be inconsistent

10:01

offensively. That could bode well

10:03

for Smith. I still think Pirello's

10:06

a step above. Smith

10:08

from what I've seen and Matthias

10:10

of course coming off his

10:12

one loss You know, which was

10:14

a big upset loss in

10:16

Puerto Rico real busy guy We

10:18

know you can hit Matthias

10:20

and we know that Smith has

10:22

some power and but Matthias

10:24

what a game guy he is

10:26

I mean that guy never

10:28

stops coming. So again, I If

10:30

you were asking me am

10:32

I buying or selling on stock

10:34

for Dalton Smith right now I'm

10:38

not buying. I'm waiting. I'm telling my

10:40

stock broker You know just wait a

10:42

wait a little while. Let me let

10:44

me let me get more information on

10:46

that stock Let me get a little

10:48

bit more on that. I'm not knocking

10:50

them. It's a nice stock. It looks

10:52

good and you know But let me

10:55

ask you this to your point though

10:57

to piggyback off of that because I

10:59

feel the same way and I agree

11:01

with you Jermaine was so much smaller.

11:03

He looked like a lightweight in there

11:05

to me I thought, especially

11:07

after knocking him down early on and

11:09

then again later in the fight, you

11:11

got to stop this guy to be

11:14

that world -class guy. If he would have

11:16

stopped him, would your thoughts be different?

11:18

No, because I look at what Jermaine

11:20

is. I'm not just looking at the

11:22

results. I'm looking at the results with

11:24

what? I'm looking at the

11:26

results that I think he should have

11:28

stopped him But I'm looking at

11:30

the results with the quality of the

11:32

guy he's in there with I

11:34

didn't think this guy was really a

11:36

threat 35 years old, you know

11:38

a guy that's been around I get

11:40

it, but I I didn't think

11:42

it was I didn't think that much

11:44

of Jermaine where even if he

11:46

stopped him I would have said oh

11:48

wow It would have depended how

11:50

he stopped You know if he got

11:53

rid of him in the first

11:55

three rounds Yeah, maybe then because then

11:57

it would have answered some of

11:59

the things that I didn't see being

12:01

busier Being being a guy who

12:03

put punches together instead of single shots

12:05

being a guy that once he

12:07

closes the gap He stays there and

12:09

gets more of the job done.

12:11

I didn't see that if he did

12:13

that that I would have seen

12:15

that I would have felt better Yeah,

12:17

and that way the final thing

12:19

I say is he showed me he's

12:21

not a finisher You're either a

12:23

finisher or you're not a finisher in

12:25

this picnic and there's guys You

12:27

don't need Teddy Atlas to tell you

12:29

when you see a finisher You

12:32

know, I just saw a finisher. Oh

12:34

my god This guy is not

12:36

that that doesn't mean he can't become

12:38

what they want him to become

12:40

You know, he's got the best navigation

12:42

you can have with Eddie her

12:44

and then over there and I'll leave

12:46

it with this if he does

12:48

get the Porello fight or You know,

12:50

if Matthias wins and he gets

12:52

that fight, one thing that I think

12:54

he has to get to go

12:56

with that, that obviously would make his

12:58

chances better. But I think with

13:00

him, in particular, it's important to fight

13:02

over there. To

13:04

fight over there. To fight there

13:06

with the crowd. And I don't

13:08

have to say the rest. You

13:10

know why? Because if it's a

13:12

competitive fight... maybe just

13:15

maybe it goes his way maybe

13:17

he's got a better shot of it

13:19

going his way you know if

13:21

it's that kind of fight I think

13:23

that and look you can say

13:25

that about a lot of people that

13:27

they're better off if they fight

13:29

at home but I think in particular

13:31

in this kind of scenario with

13:33

what I just laid out it would

13:35

help him Yeah, that's a

13:37

beautiful breakdown and we will see what

13:39

is next for Dalton Smith when

13:41

he makes that jump up to that

13:43

next level Burpoilo guy Not easy

13:45

to look good against and my tears

13:47

you better bring your lunch So

13:49

either way like you said would be

13:51

a step up be interesting So

13:53

we will move on from the UK

13:55

to California from the 140 pounders

13:57

to the 154 pounders I thought by

13:59

far the best fighter the weekend

14:01

Charles Conwell was highly ranked coming in

14:03

verse Jorge Perez and Conwell

14:06

winds up losing this match. He's gonna fall

14:08

on the rankings. I had never seen

14:10

Perez. This was my first exposure to him

14:12

and I was pleasantly surprised. He did

14:14

have the height and reach advantage, but besides

14:16

trying to catch him at the end

14:18

of the punch on the outside, he did

14:20

some great work on the inside. I

14:22

thought that was the big difference. I thought

14:24

Conwell, the shorter man, shorter arms would

14:26

have to, you know, make his hay on

14:28

the inside and credit to Perez for

14:30

being able to take short steps inside, shorten

14:32

his punches, brutal body shots. And even

14:35

Engels, he was maneuvering, he was crafty. In

14:37

the end, I was curious to see,

14:39

would the judges get it right? I thought

14:41

they did. I agreed with the decision.

14:43

He wins it by split decision. Would you

14:45

think of the fight? Would you think

14:47

of the decision? Well, I

14:49

start with the latter

14:51

of your questions, the decision.

14:54

He earned it. He earned that win. It

14:57

would have been wrong. was a

14:59

close fight, close rounds, close enough,

15:02

close competitive rounds. but it would have been

15:04

an injustice not to give it to

15:06

him. He earned it. He earned

15:08

it. And Conwell fought good. Conwell,

15:10

look, it was a competitive

15:12

fight, well -matched, good matchmaking,

15:14

really good matchmaking, well -matched fight.

15:19

De La Hoya, Golden Boy, doesn't have

15:22

a lot of good fortune and

15:24

luck sometimes with guys when they sign

15:26

them up. Like, they...

15:28

You know, they sign him up and

15:30

then they got him a couple of

15:32

fights. I don't know how many fights

15:34

he's been with him, but they got

15:36

him a few fights and then all

15:38

of a sudden... I believe this was

15:40

Conwell's fourth fight with Golden Boy. it

15:42

goes south. Now look, you

15:44

could knock Golden Boy if

15:46

you want and say, hey, you

15:49

know, you got to take

15:51

better care of your... prospects you

15:53

sign them up and then you

15:55

put them in this kind of fight

15:57

or you could say hey good

15:59

which I do hey not good

16:01

they lost but good for going boy

16:03

having the attitude they want to

16:05

find out what they got you know

16:08

the only thing I would knock

16:10

them is if he was on

16:12

a if he was on a doorstep

16:14

on the precedent stuff just just

16:16

in the foyer of waiting for World

16:19

title fight that he was gonna be

16:21

guaranteed that he was gonna get Then

16:23

you don't take this kind of fight

16:25

then you don't need to take this

16:27

kind of fight, but if it's still

16:29

within his The lane

16:31

of development the realm of development that

16:33

it's a kind of fight that could

16:35

make him a better fighter that he

16:37

needs to be a better fighter And

16:39

I think it will make him a

16:41

better fighter if it's that Lane that

16:43

you're looking at that It's the kind

16:45

of fight that will make him a

16:48

better fighter that he needs to get

16:50

to where you want him to get

16:52

to for to be worthwhile for you

16:54

and him Then I give him credit.

16:56

I mean because sometimes you your son

16:58

guys up And you're

17:00

spending all that resources

17:02

to give them very carefully

17:04

hand chosen opponents that

17:06

you know they're going to

17:08

go through. And then at

17:10

the end, you've

17:12

invested all this

17:14

resources. Our

17:16

Heyman people have made that mistake. Then

17:19

you invest those resources, and then all

17:21

of a sudden you find out, oh

17:23

my goodness. I thought I

17:25

had something better. I thought I had

17:27

better material. I wouldn't have put

17:29

all that investment into them and time

17:31

and everything else if I knew

17:33

then what I know now. So find

17:35

out when you're supposed to, not

17:37

too soon, but find out so I

17:39

give Golden Boy credit for that. They

17:42

want to find out. I don't

17:44

know if the matchmaking is a little

17:46

shady, that it looks like

17:48

they want to find out accidentally on

17:50

purpose because they're not realizing what

17:52

they're putting guys in with. I don't

17:54

know that. But at the end

17:56

the day, I'm going to give them

17:58

credit for saying, okay, they want

18:00

to find out. They expect

18:03

big things out of this guy. They

18:05

want him to be able to handle a

18:07

guy who's 32 and 4 in their

18:09

mind. You know, a veteran

18:11

guy, a crafted guy, no doubt about

18:13

a guy who's a warhorse type guy.

18:15

But a guy that in their mind,

18:17

and not wrong, he's got to beat

18:19

if he's going to be what they

18:21

want him to be. Or a guy

18:23

that maybe they underestimate because he only

18:26

fought twice in the United States. Did

18:28

they not know him enough with most

18:30

of his fights being in Mexico? Well,

18:32

that's why I left the door

18:34

open. What I was saying

18:36

that maybe the matchmaker wasn't quite up to

18:38

speed on the guy. Maybe it was

18:40

a mistake or maybe it's again. It's one

18:43

or the other. It's a mistake. I'm

18:45

going to give him credit. I'm going to

18:47

say, look, they're looking to find out

18:49

is it worth going down the road with

18:51

this guy? You know? And not in

18:53

a bad way. Nowhere they've thrown him to

18:55

the wolves. But they put him in

18:57

a fight that at the very least it's

18:59

going to make him a better fighter.

19:01

And it will make him a better fighter.

19:03

At the end of the day, Conwell

19:06

got an opportunity to find

19:08

out where he needs to be

19:10

better. He was the physically

19:12

stronger guy. He's the shorter guy.

19:14

Perez had all the attributes,

19:16

all the physical assets to be

19:19

the guy on the outside.

19:21

To have the advantage. To all

19:23

the... to all the longer

19:25

he had all those advantages and

19:27

you expected him to use

19:29

them on the outside and he

19:31

knew how to use them

19:33

on the outside Conwell physically stronger,

19:36

you know more more, you

19:38

know, just just a guy who's

19:40

built You know, he's built

19:42

more physical. He's built more of

19:44

a brick house type guy

19:46

rather than a long, rangy guy

19:48

that presses. So Conwell wanted

19:50

to get close. He wanted to put

19:52

pressure. He puts pressure on guys. He wanted

19:54

to wham down. That's his game. Get

19:57

close, wham down. And look, he knows how

19:59

to fight. He moves his head well. Both

20:01

of them were pretty good defensively. I give

20:04

both credit. They knew what they were doing.

20:06

They didn't get hit with everything you freaking

20:08

drew at them. You know, you

20:10

didn't close your eyes and just hit the

20:12

guy. They weren't like Mickey Duff would say.

20:14

One of those guys, they get insulted if

20:16

you miss him. You know, these guys were

20:18

much better than that. Conwell moving his hand,

20:20

coming in. He could have used the jab

20:22

a little more, coming in. He used it

20:24

pretty good. He went to the body, okay.

20:26

Could have went to the body more. Perez

20:29

surprised me. the tall, wiry guy

20:32

who went to the body so much.

20:35

Again, Conwell would hurt Conwell, and

20:37

what I think gave the

20:39

fight to Perez, where I agree

20:41

with the judges, is that

20:43

Conwell, when he got inside, he had

20:45

no trouble getting in, but with the longer

20:47

guy, with that long body, and he

20:49

had the right idea. But when he

20:51

got in, he wasn't consistent

20:53

enough with his offense. He

20:56

stole. He was like a car that,

20:58

you know, gets going on the highway,

21:00

then it stalls out. You

21:02

know, you say, what the freak? What are

21:04

you stalling out now for? I'm

21:06

on the highway. And to your

21:09

point, those close rounds, I did think

21:11

the activity of Perez was the difference. Yeah,

21:14

it was. I mean, and the

21:16

judges saw it, and I'm glad they saw it the right

21:18

way. Conwell got inside. He

21:21

wasn't consistent. He should have been more.

21:23

And why wasn't he? He smothered himself.

21:26

He allowed himself to get tied

21:28

up sometimes he put his hands

21:30

behind Perez and spots and initiated

21:32

tie -ups So he's got to be

21:34

good if he's gonna be that

21:36

kind of fight if that's his

21:38

if that's his MO if that's

21:40

his You know style that he's

21:42

got to be more consistent at

21:44

it if he's the strong guy

21:46

who's gonna put pressure and break

21:48

you down and get get inside

21:51

on then he when he gets

21:53

inside he's got to stay there

21:55

and he's got to keep room

21:57

to keep working he's got to

21:59

learn that and his fight has

22:01

to teach him that Perez won

22:03

the fight for one reason he

22:05

had the edge on the outside

22:07

you saw that right away he's

22:09

taller he's longer he had the

22:11

edge on the outside when he

22:13

wanted it the first few rounds

22:15

he wanted but then He

22:18

outworked Conwell on the inside the

22:20

one place that he couldn't be

22:22

the better guy Conwell had to

22:24

be the better the better Guy

22:26

on the inside. It turned out

22:28

that Perez was more transitional He

22:30

was more dimensional he could he

22:32

had an edge on the outside

22:34

and then you wouldn't think of

22:36

these toys Why we say ah,

22:38

he don't want to be inside

22:40

with this physical guy who's gonna

22:42

break them down. He went inside

22:44

and out worked the guy Outworked

22:46

now look you can make an

22:48

argument that crown well was throwing

22:50

the hardest shots landing the hardest

22:52

shots But let me tell you

22:54

something. Yeah, he might have been

22:56

a better puncher He might have

22:58

been a more solid puncher, but

23:00

Perez was landed plenty of solid

23:02

punch and to your point to

23:04

the body He was digging in

23:06

he was landed down. He was

23:08

busy. He was he wasn't throwing

23:10

the maybe the Quality type hard

23:12

punches in spots that crown well

23:15

was Conwell was but Perez was

23:17

out working him and landing enough

23:19

of the cleaner shots to win

23:21

close rounds. He was

23:23

doing a job Conwell should have been

23:25

doing on the inside. He

23:27

went inside and said, oh, you like to

23:29

be in here? OK, I'm going to

23:31

come in here with you. I'm going to

23:33

come into your area, your geography, as

23:35

I like to say. And you

23:37

know what? I'm going to match

23:39

you. And I'm gonna better you anything

23:42

you could do I could do

23:44

better He kind of like had that

23:46

attitude and he actually pulled it

23:48

off and that's why he wanted to

23:50

fight and I'm glad the judges

23:52

saw it The way they needed to

23:54

see it give him credit Yeah,

23:56

and credit to Conwell and he will

23:58

be served from this he he

24:01

fought with cuts on both of his

24:03

eyes And he closed strong, gritty,

24:05

determined. I thought the last few rounds

24:07

he was really coming on and

24:09

made it that closer gap. The fight

24:11

came down to the final round

24:13

on the scorecards. 1 -15, 1 -13, two

24:15

times in 1 -15, 1 -13 the

24:17

other way, two of the three judges

24:20

gave the last round to Perez. So

24:22

that was the difference in the end. I

24:25

thought to your point, the championship

24:27

rounds, let's say the

24:29

10th and 11th, I

24:31

thought going into those rounds

24:33

that Perez was ahead. And

24:37

that Cromwell, as you just

24:39

said, needed a strong close.

24:41

He needed a strong finish. And

24:44

he did what he needed to do. He

24:46

won the tenth, he won the eleventh. I forget

24:48

the ninth, I can't remember. But anyway, he

24:50

won those last couple rounds and he tightened it

24:52

up. And then it did

24:54

come down to the final round. And

24:56

Perez, where I thought he might

24:58

have been getting tired, I thought he might

25:01

have been getting worn down, and I think everyone

25:03

thought that. The Conwell thought that. It looked

25:05

like he might have, the pressure was finally getting

25:07

to him, the bodywork, the inside fight, you

25:09

know, all the stuff that Conwell depended on. was

25:11

starting to get to him. All of

25:13

a sudden Perez would find another gear.

25:15

It's like he had an extra fuel

25:18

tank. He would say, okay, I'll go

25:20

over here to get some gas from

25:22

here. And all of a sudden, and

25:24

that's this, that is the

25:26

metal part. And he dug down and

25:28

he pulled it out. When he needed

25:30

to, he dug down, he found the

25:32

energy, he found the punches, and

25:34

that's why he won the fight, as you

25:36

just said. So, good fight, and I

25:38

give credit to Conwell, taking this fight and...

25:40

think it'll make him a better fighter. I

25:43

think it'll help him in areas that

25:45

I just said. And he's a

25:47

kind of guy I'd watch every time

25:49

he fights. I'd watch him every time.

25:51

I like his style. I like his

25:53

attitude, everything. Yeah, I'm

25:55

with you. I couldn't agree more with

25:58

everything you said. And he credit to

26:00

Perez, as you said, and pulled it

26:02

off. He pulled off the upset of

26:04

the year probably so far. He entered

26:06

this fight as a 12 to 1

26:08

underdog. And I was thinking, man. People

26:10

could have made some money if we

26:12

were live streaming this one. We will

26:14

be backward our live streams next week,

26:16

but round seven Conwell mine is 1800

26:18

live couldn't believe it. I knew Where

26:20

what you would be thinking and saying

26:22

draw on that one Send it in

26:25

send it in and it's worth it.

26:27

It's worth it. I don't care I

26:29

would just said simply and I know

26:31

it's easier to say it after the

26:33

fact I get it but but I

26:35

am I hope you trust me enough

26:37

my reputation. I am being

26:39

honest I I would have said

26:41

look even if you lose it's worth

26:43

the risk you know this guy

26:45

you know the that movie another one

26:47

with deniro and them uh the

26:49

heat uh it was called heat uh

26:51

that was a hell of a

26:53

movie heat I don't know if a

26:55

lot of people saw that it

26:57

was with deniro and Pacino they were

27:00

both together in that movie and

27:02

uh they looked at this one it

27:04

was really it was a tough

27:06

one uh they were they were guys

27:08

that took down big jobs. You

27:10

know, they were, they were robbers

27:12

and gangsters. And the guy says,

27:14

you sure you want this one?

27:16

You sure? You got a, you

27:18

got a detective who's on you guys.

27:20

There's, there's a lot of risk.

27:22

He said the risk is worth

27:24

the reward. And, and he took

27:26

it. For me,

27:28

that, that's kind of like

27:31

the reward for Cromwell. He

27:33

will be that he will

27:35

be a better fighter. Yeah,

27:37

no question and the last thing

27:39

I'll say we cover this one very

27:41

thoroughly I think enough has been

27:44

said but I will say this that

27:46

for Conwell I laughed because some

27:48

of the fans after the fight Guys

27:50

take a lot of criticism when

27:52

they lose for inactivity Conwell four fights

27:54

this year and now people are

27:56

saying well too much activity That's why

27:59

he lost the fight. He was

28:01

overworked. He fought too many fights this

28:03

year Damned

28:05

if you do, damned if you don't. You

28:07

can't satisfy people. Don't try to. Don't try

28:09

to figure them out. Don't try to get

28:11

them in the head. I would

28:14

ask those guys, and I'm not trying to knock anyone,

28:16

but I have to say something. You gave

28:18

it to me. I have to say

28:20

something. Ask those guys who are saying,

28:22

how many champions have they trained? How

28:24

many champions have they managed? How

28:26

many fights have they won themselves? How

28:29

long was their career? How

28:31

much money did they make in

28:33

this business? How much success have they

28:35

had in this business? Other than

28:37

watching other fighters watching, which is great.

28:39

You're a fan. You

28:41

should do that. But other

28:43

than watching and having your

28:45

own little opinion, okay,

28:47

fine. But you know what? Everyone

28:50

is entitled to their

28:52

own opinion. But

28:54

don't try to take that

28:56

to the market and see how

28:58

much you get for that.

29:00

You ain't gonna get a lot.

29:02

Yeah, you're gonna get a

29:04

lot not in this market not

29:06

in this market because you

29:08

haven't Yeah, unless I'm wrong. I

29:11

don't think there's too many

29:13

use that have been successful

29:15

Managing training or fighting in

29:17

this business if I'm wrong.

29:19

I stand corrected. I'm

29:21

gonna Get get that my bookie

29:23

or someone give me a line

29:25

on that because I'll put a

29:27

little play on that That I'm

29:29

probably not wrong Well,

29:32

we will move on from that

29:34

coal main event fight and let's

29:36

talk about the main event there

29:38

in California on the zone We

29:41

had the ladies Gabriela Fondora vs.

29:43

Marilyn badillo Fondora undisputed flyweight champion.

29:45

This was her first defensive her

29:47

undisputed belts and Just like her

29:49

brother genetics are unbelievable right? I

29:51

mean tall long super wiry rangey

29:53

trained by the father and Quite

29:56

the performance had her way Very

29:58

one -sided. You don't have to

30:00

spend the, you know, the good

30:02

thing about being a father and

30:04

that family, you don't have to

30:06

spend a lot of money on

30:08

groceries. Your food bill

30:11

ain't real big. There's some families where

30:13

the father's like, oh my God, I gotta

30:15

get a second job to feed these

30:17

guys. Oh my God. Richie's

30:19

laughing, his family's probably like

30:22

that. Oh, but this family,

30:24

no, you're gonna save some

30:26

money on the food bill.

30:28

Man, they are skinny. Yeah,

30:31

no no question and You know I

30:33

thought about you during this fight immediately one

30:35

of your your great analogies of the

30:37

kid trying to go up the hill being

30:39

badillo and The other kid on top

30:41

of the hill chucking rocks at you being

30:43

Fondora the sheet sheet Gotta give her

30:45

credit for the deal. She tried. She was

30:47

trying to get super low and shoot

30:49

a big shot and left hook up top.

30:52

But whatever she tried, she was outgunned.

30:54

And Fondora, she was in a rain, shooting

30:56

down shots. And she's like her brother.

30:58

Not afraid to give up her height and

31:00

come forward and be fan -friendly. What'd

31:02

you think of Fondora and her performance? Unlike

31:07

her brother. Very

31:09

similar. But

31:11

where she's better. Then

31:14

her brother although her brother in

31:16

the last fight not with a top

31:18

He didn't have anything great in front

31:20

of him to be honest game guy,

31:22

but nothing But he's gonna have he's

31:24

gonna he's gonna have tougher fights coming

31:26

up But in his last fight he

31:28

did do what I'm about to say

31:31

He did look better, but where she's

31:33

better than him consistently is

31:35

when she wants to fight tour

31:37

on the outside, she does and

31:39

she can do it consistently. And

31:41

then when she wants to press,

31:44

which I think is almost part

31:46

of the genetics of this family,

31:48

I think it's part of the

31:50

mental genetics. I think the father

31:52

trains them to be this, to

31:54

be these kind of fighters with

31:56

this attitude to press to get

31:59

knockouts. They talked about that. I

32:01

think he's he kind of like

32:03

Develops terminators and to have this

32:05

terminator added. She's a terminator. She's

32:07

a sweet thing. She Talks well.

32:09

She she really is she looks

32:11

like a really as nice a

32:14

person as you could find Sincerely.

32:16

I mean like she really is

32:18

it's not fake But man, she's

32:20

a terminator. She is she is

32:22

a term guys don't you go

32:24

out on a date with her,

32:26

you know Be really a gentleman

32:29

and you should always be a

32:31

gentleman should always be but really

32:33

be extra because she don't play

32:35

She the nickname is perfect sweet

32:37

poison It

32:39

is perfect. She is she

32:41

is the consummate Not just

32:44

fightable, but really terminated the

32:46

warrior like she's got that

32:48

attitude and She said something

32:50

that custom auto used to

32:52

say to me when I

32:55

was when when I was

32:57

you know, I had the

32:59

responsibility of develop guy

33:01

named Mike Tyson. I remember Coach would say

33:03

how to train and go, how to work out,

33:06

how did they go in the gym, whatever,

33:08

with all the fighters. But then, of course, he

33:10

would concentrate on him, being that he was

33:12

going to be a heavyweight, the whole thing could

33:14

punch with either hand. That would kind of

33:16

make you a little bit the favorite, you know

33:18

I mean? That would make you the favorite

33:20

in the family. And it could

33:23

hit you on top of the head

33:25

fracture ankles. Yeah, that would make you

33:27

the favorite in a family, in a

33:29

boxing family. But cuz

33:31

would say to me and then when

33:33

I would take him out to get

33:35

fights he would say his attitude Needs

33:37

to be always Like first let me

33:39

explain this I always I'll be the

33:41

first to say I don't make a

33:43

fighter look for knockout Because I might

33:45

prepare and we could get a knockout

33:48

and we'd like to get in I

33:50

think it's a good chance We can

33:52

get it by doing certain things that

33:54

I will set up as the fight

33:56

plan to do in the gym But

33:58

I'll never put the pressure on him

34:00

say I'd never say we gotta get

34:02

now because I don't know who I'm

34:04

talking to I know my fighter but

34:06

if he's not mature enough if he's

34:08

not disciplined enough smart enough to understand

34:10

that I don't mean to go out

34:12

there start looking for one punch at

34:15

a time I mean to Continue doing

34:17

the things you were trained to do

34:19

do do the things you were taught

34:21

to do to get the knockout, but

34:23

don't Overly press for the knockout because

34:25

then you could get caught you could

34:27

get knocked out because then it's like

34:29

a baseball player Up at the bat

34:31

you look for the home run you

34:33

strike out, but you look to make

34:35

contact you look to swing the bat

34:37

The way you were taught to swing

34:39

it keep your eye on a ball

34:42

and and all the Mechanics you were

34:44

taught you might get a whole month.

34:46

You got a good chance of getting

34:48

a whole month if you're that kind

34:50

of hitter Same thing with a fighter.

34:52

I don't want to press him and

34:54

say okay You got to go get

34:56

a knockout and then again the chance

34:58

that maybe he gets over anxious Maybe

35:00

he loads up a little bit. I

35:03

will say do the things we

35:05

taught You to do do the

35:07

things we train to do do

35:09

them consistently a mix of offense

35:11

and defense press behind the chair

35:13

Bring your feet give a faint once

35:15

in a while. Don't walk into

35:17

anything but if you do those

35:19

things and you see you get

35:21

to continue to press and You'll

35:23

wind up getting to where you

35:25

want to get to without it

35:27

be having to use the word

35:29

knockout cuz Was more

35:31

definitive cuz was more aggressive with that

35:33

with me cuz would say and

35:35

front door reminded me of that and

35:37

she basically said it cuz would

35:39

say Let him go after full force

35:41

One round go after him do

35:44

everything to try to get him out

35:46

of there everything the right way

35:48

That's my job. He would say to

35:50

me. That's your job to make

35:52

sure he does it the right way

35:54

But his attitude should be I'm

35:56

gonna get him. I'm gonna get him

35:58

and then the bell rings Okay,

36:00

same attitude the next round i'm gonna

36:02

get him i'm gonna get him i'm

36:04

gonna get him i'm gonna get him

36:06

this round bell rings you don't get

36:08

him same attitude the next round same

36:10

attitude the next the next the next

36:12

in other words every round if i

36:15

don't get him this round i'll get

36:17

him the next round if i don't

36:19

get him that i'll get him the

36:21

next round that is her attitude and

36:23

she said as much she said my

36:25

father trains us we train To get

36:27

the knockout if actually she used the

36:29

same verbiage that cuz had used if

36:31

I don't get him if I don't

36:34

get him that round I'll get him

36:36

the next round the thing that she

36:38

does and she did really well and

36:40

Like I said her brother did it

36:42

the last fight, but he doesn't always

36:44

She when she decides to press When

36:47

she decides to have to round

36:49

the two when she decides to

36:51

come forward and and reads the

36:53

tea leaves She reads the landscape.

36:55

She reads the roadmap. Okay time

36:57

to go. It's time now start

36:59

pressing more She still keeps see

37:01

you said one thing I disagree

37:04

with you said she does give

37:06

up her height like her brother

37:08

to me no Because even when

37:10

she and I get why you

37:12

say it but you're not wrong,

37:14

but when she presses She

37:16

presses the right way for

37:18

a tall person She presses behind

37:20

the job champ with enough

37:22

range Enough separation where the fighter

37:25

never her opponent never gets

37:27

that close to her Where she

37:29

keeps the opponent at the

37:31

end of her punches where she

37:33

gets full extension on her

37:35

punches In other words, she decides,

37:37

okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna

37:39

come forward I'm gonna in other

37:41

words, I'm gonna go into

37:44

that geography now the close geography

37:46

Where it looks like I'm

37:48

gonna give up my height so

37:50

she does but in reality

37:52

She's doing it in a way

37:54

technically behind the jab where

37:56

she's always keeping The opponent at

37:58

a range where she can

38:01

hit the opponent with her long

38:03

arms and the opponent can't

38:05

hit her so even when she

38:07

comes forward aggressively She

38:09

still keeps the advantage of

38:11

being tall. Her brother did

38:13

that in his last fight, but he

38:15

doesn't do it because she is magnificent

38:18

at it. I love this

38:20

fighter. love I love the

38:22

way she approaches the game

38:24

the way she attacks the

38:26

game the way she handles

38:28

herself outside and inside the

38:30

way the way she's an

38:32

ambassador for the game for

38:34

the sport she is magnificent

38:36

she trained magnificently she she

38:38

is the terminator I mean

38:40

wow I You can't say

38:42

that about too many fighters and

38:44

you don't think you're gonna be saying

38:46

it about too many female fighters

38:48

to be honest You know because it's

38:51

not as many of them. That's

38:53

why not because a woman couldn't have

38:55

those attributes, but there's not as

38:57

many but She looks so good in

38:59

every area every area. She wants

39:01

to control the outside Go ahead keep

39:04

keep to make make the make

39:06

the opponent walk through a bad neighborhood

39:08

and mug them She does that

39:10

beautifully. But then she says, you know

39:12

what? I want to go into

39:14

her neighborhood. I want to go into

39:16

her neighborhood and mug her in

39:19

her neighborhood. I went, yeah, I

39:21

don't want her to come into my neighborhood to

39:23

get mugged. I'll go into her neighborhood. And she

39:25

goes in the right way. Yeah,

39:27

she's, uh, she's terrific.

39:29

And she's built like a puncher,

39:31

you know, like a Tommy Hearns, like

39:33

a Bob Forster, like an Electoral

39:35

Quail, like a Carlos Sarate, skinny, tall,

39:37

wild, like a brother. Tall

39:40

wiry where they get leverage

39:42

they get leverage on those

39:44

punches talk on those punches

39:46

anyway Terrific. I she's great anytime.

39:48

She fights our watcher. I

39:50

just hope that she's so

39:52

light I don't know like

39:54

her frame. She could go

39:56

up, but you know How far

39:59

can she go up as

40:01

far as and put a

40:03

little bulk? You know where

40:05

she's not gonna get pushed

40:07

around with the bigger Women

40:09

on the you know when she moves up.

40:12

She won't get physically, you know

40:14

Handled and and in the

40:16

way where they would take advantage

40:18

of that that would be

40:20

my only thought my only concern

40:22

but um and my other

40:24

concern is as much as I

40:26

love her as there enough

40:28

fights out there That are worthy

40:30

to see her in you

40:32

know, I don't want to see

40:34

her in blowouts Even

40:36

though she makes it a blowout, I give

40:38

her credit for that. Don't knock her for

40:40

that. I'm not taking away that she makes

40:42

it a blowout. But I'm just saying, I

40:44

want to see her. I

40:47

don't know if there's enough good

40:49

women fighters in those weight classes of

40:51

hers to really bring the best

40:53

out of her to make me want

40:55

to say, oh, I got to

40:57

watch this fight again. I'll watch her

40:59

anyway. The last thing I want

41:01

to add is that you touched on

41:03

Badillo. She tried

41:05

her best. She

41:07

was trying her best. At

41:10

the end, she gave up. You know, she gave

41:12

up. She told the ref she didn't want to

41:14

go on. But her problem

41:16

was she had the right, she had

41:18

a half the right idea to

41:20

move her head. But she didn't move

41:22

her feet. She didn't

41:24

move her feet to close the

41:26

gap. She moved her head

41:28

and avoided some shots early, but

41:30

didn't close the gap with

41:32

her feet. So she wasn't close

41:34

enough to to catch Pandora

41:36

after moving ahead. Yeah

41:39

they uh I'm with you I

41:41

can't wait to watch her fight

41:43

again we'll see how long she's

41:45

able to stay at that flyweight

41:47

112 pound limit and she is

41:49

at 23 years old the youngest

41:51

undisputed world champion ever men's or

41:53

woman. So, quite the accomplishment. Can't

41:55

wait to see what the future

41:57

has in store for her. And

42:00

before we move on to our next fight, I just

42:02

want to take a quick pause and give a thank you

42:04

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offer of 10 free travel packs with

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your first purchase All right, so with

42:29

that being said we will move on

42:31

to Easter Sunday's main event back to

42:33

the UK we had the rematch Liam

42:35

Cameron and Ben Whitaker Ben Whitaker the

42:38

former silver Olympian medalist in 2020 both

42:40

guys from the UK big fight over

42:42

there in the UK and in part

42:44

Large part because of the controversy the

42:46

first fight both guys tumbled out of

42:48

the ring Whitaker said he was unable

42:50

to continue and Six months later. We

42:52

were able to get the rematch this

42:54

time around Whitaker makes some changes brings

42:57

Andy Lee in as his new trainer

42:59

in his corner and Look very impressive

43:01

didn't waste any time in the second

43:03

round catches Whitaker went up getting the

43:05

stoppage Now, I said in the last

43:07

fight, I thought about you with analogies.

43:09

I was thinking about you again watching

43:11

this fight. I always think about you

43:13

watching the fights, but would you talk

43:16

about sometimes the punch not to throw,

43:18

right? What's the bunch punch? What is

43:20

the best punch to throw? The one

43:22

you don't throw. You always talk about

43:24

how a jab, how important it is,

43:26

but how dangerous of a punch it

43:28

is, because it could get you in

43:30

trouble if not used the right way.

43:32

He threw a slow, lazy jab where

43:35

he pushed it in range, and he

43:37

got caught with a right hand over

43:39

the top. Wasn't able to recover in

43:41

the end second round stoppage by Ben

43:43

Whitaker I just want to ask you

43:45

obviously your thoughts on this rematch of

43:47

Ben Whitaker But also on the stoppage

43:49

some people out there thought it was

43:51

a little premature premature. What did you

43:54

think of the stoppage? First

43:56

first of all I'll take

43:58

it in my order That

44:00

I think I need to

44:02

take it in To your

44:04

point I Always say it

44:06

if I've said it once

44:08

I've said it a thousand

44:10

times When you see

44:12

a guy get hurt, when you see a

44:14

fighter get knocked out, when you

44:16

see a big punch land, 99 %

44:18

of the time you can

44:20

count on it, I'll keep saying

44:22

it until I turn blue

44:24

in the face. It's

44:26

because of a defensive

44:28

floor, because of a

44:31

fundamental technical floor by the opponent.

44:33

That they did something wrong to

44:35

lead the punch didn't just land

44:37

they did something wrong To lead

44:39

they stepped back with their hands

44:41

down. I remember the great body

44:43

snatcher Mike McCollum He knocked out

44:46

Donald curry with that left hook

44:48

when he curry stepped back He

44:50

had a habit of stepping back

44:52

from too close with his hands

44:54

out. He gets hit well left

44:56

hook the fights over The

45:00

floors are what they are. There's

45:03

like a half dozen of them.

45:05

I could name them. I could make

45:07

a list I could make a

45:09

book out of things not to do

45:11

if you want to be a

45:13

champion and it would be just It

45:15

would be a handful of things,

45:17

you know not moving your head after

45:19

your punch You know coven's too

45:21

slow like you said after jab throwing

45:23

the jab from too close ways

45:25

close enough to hit you with right

45:27

hand in this case It

45:29

was what you said it

45:32

was. I'm going to take

45:34

it a little further, bud. It wasn't

45:36

just they was throwing a champ. You

45:38

know what it really was if you

45:40

watched the replay, we're going to get

45:42

it because our man, our man, Ben

45:44

is the best. Ben Garcia is the

45:46

best in the business and he will

45:48

get that up there for us. He

45:52

was starting in his mind. You

45:54

know when you got in your mind to do something, you

45:56

never get it done. Yeah, yeah, you're

45:58

starting to do something but something happens. You

46:00

don't get it done He's he wanted to

46:02

throw a left hook never how many times

46:04

you heard me Saying you've been in the

46:06

gym with me too never lead. I don't

46:08

let my fighters lead with left hooks in

46:10

front I'll jump in a ring now in

46:12

the middle of sparring said you can't do

46:14

that and you got to learn now I'm

46:16

not gonna let it go because you don't

46:19

learn that you're gonna do it somewhere down

46:21

the road and you're gonna pay a real

46:23

price even if you didn't pay just now You

46:25

never lead with a left hook. Simple.

46:27

Even I was there in

46:30

the classroom when they taught that

46:32

a straight line beats a

46:34

round line. Straight beats

46:36

round. Not complicated. When

46:38

you lead with a left hook in

46:40

front from the wrong place, the wrong range,

46:42

you leave a hole for his right

46:45

hand, a straight right hand to get in

46:47

there. He was starting, I know it

46:49

looked like a jab. He was starting to

46:51

throw a left hook. It

46:53

never got there. As he was starting

46:55

to throw it the right hand got

46:57

there first and that's why it got

46:59

hurt so bad He never saw the

47:01

punch. It is mine. If you answer,

47:03

what's the last thing you remember? I

47:05

was gonna land the left hook. I

47:07

was gonna throw a left hook I

47:09

don't know what happened after that then

47:11

he gets hurt now to the To

47:13

the rest of what what we want

47:16

to deal with it what the fans

47:18

are asking about as far as the

47:20

fight goes I Thought it was a

47:22

quick stoppage but I thought it was, I

47:25

thought it didn't matter.

47:28

I thought that the result was going to

47:30

be the same. Maybe the guy even

47:32

gets, maybe you take a chance he gets

47:34

hurt. But I don't think that it

47:36

changed the result or the outcome of what

47:38

it was going to be. But yes, I

47:41

thought it was a quick stoppage.

47:43

I thought they could have waited

47:45

a lot. But I also thought

47:47

it was very smart and well

47:49

prepared and showed me the preparation

47:51

of Whitaker. and the

47:53

help of his new trainer,

47:56

Andy Lee, where once

47:58

he heard him, one thing that

48:00

Cameron was doing, he had the

48:02

earmuffs on. He was keeping

48:05

his hands on peek -a -boo, where

48:07

the clean punches were not really

48:09

available where you normally want them

48:11

in front, because the gloves were

48:13

there in front. Where the clean

48:15

punches, the openings were available with

48:18

that peek -a -boo there was behind

48:20

the glove. And that's where

48:22

he aimed them. Once he

48:24

heard him, he realized, and I think it

48:26

was preparation from his trainer, that they

48:28

did their work. They did what you're supposed

48:30

to do as a fighter and trainer. They

48:33

looked at tape. They went

48:35

in there with a game plan. They

48:37

went in there understanding what

48:39

their opponent did, his

48:42

strengths, his flaws. They

48:44

knew that he would cover up. So

48:46

if you get him hurt, aim behind.

48:49

And that's exactly wasted no time. And

48:51

I give wood again, Andy Lee, great

48:53

credit for that. I recognize that

48:55

right away. And I said, wow, job

48:57

well done, well prepared. He

48:59

started throwing. If he wouldn't throw maybe

49:01

in the front, it would have been blocked.

49:04

But instead he threw it around the

49:06

glove and they started to land. It was

49:08

just a matter of how many more

49:10

punches. I mean, yeah,

49:12

I'll say it again. I

49:14

thought he could have waited a

49:17

little bit the ref. No doubt about

49:19

it. But at the same time,

49:21

he got it right. You could also

49:23

say, hey, he saved him from

49:25

possibly getting hurt. And then you could

49:27

argue the fans could say, but

49:29

Teddy, we've seen guys come back. Where

49:31

the referee would have stopped it

49:33

there. You wouldn't have had that

49:35

great comeback. I hear

49:37

you. I've seen those fights.

49:40

I've been there. But I

49:42

don't think this was one

49:44

of them. Okay, because I

49:46

think from the beginning it

49:48

was met It was met

49:50

for Whitaker. He was prepared

49:52

mentally physically technically it was

49:54

his night Kevin was not

49:56

the guy he was in

49:58

Saudi Whitaker was not the

50:00

guy he was in Saudi

50:02

Whitaker was better prepared more

50:04

focused whatever you want to

50:06

call it but he was

50:08

ready to behave and fight

50:10

the way he needed to

50:12

as a fighter who's supposed

50:15

to have a future. Cameron

50:17

that night was ready to behave

50:19

and fight like a guy who

50:21

was gonna doubt that that guy

50:24

was what they were building him

50:26

up to be and was not

50:28

gonna let him have that career.

50:30

He fought that way. Like, this

50:32

guy hasn't been proven yet. This

50:34

guy hasn't been tested yet. This

50:36

guy hasn't been through what I've

50:38

been through yet. I'm gonna

50:40

test him tonight. I'm gonna

50:42

think that he's not ready for a

50:44

veteran like me. I'm gonna find

50:47

out if he has those intangibles

50:49

tonight. And on that

50:51

night, Cameron was ready

50:53

to fight that fight and

50:55

be that guy. Whitaker

50:57

was not ready. To

51:00

be the guy that he was

51:02

the other night to be the

51:04

guy that truly was gonna be

51:06

the real deal He might have

51:08

taken him for granted. I don't

51:10

know what it was. I know

51:12

what I I've been in the

51:15

business 50 years. He was not

51:17

He was not what he was

51:19

in sorting he was the guy

51:21

that he had to be here

51:23

Because he had been forewarned That

51:25

you can't take a guy like

51:27

this for granted because his record

51:29

was 23 six and one or

51:32

whatever it was Somewhere in that

51:34

area going in. I don't know

51:36

but where he had six losses

51:38

or whatever Yeah, that you you

51:40

you can't take him for granted

51:42

and again the difference was Cameron

51:44

said no I've seen this I've

51:47

seen this movie before. We're a

51:49

guy who's the star, who's the

51:51

pretty boy, who's the flash in

51:53

the pan. He's being built up.

51:55

They put him in with a

51:57

trial horse like me and, you

51:59

know, it's supposed to be his

52:01

coming out party. No. No,

52:05

I'm throwing a wrench into those

52:07

works because I know I have

52:09

to experience to do it. That

52:11

was the difference. That was the

52:13

difference in the fight. Cameron,

52:16

from the beginning, did

52:18

not look ready. He

52:20

was too... And then some people say,

52:22

well, Teddy, that's what he is. But

52:24

he was better the first time. And

52:26

look, Whitaker was better here. I said

52:28

it already. But Cameron, he

52:31

covered up. All he did was walk

52:33

forward. He didn't come in behind

52:35

the chair. He didn't move his head. He

52:37

he he just put like I

52:39

like to say he put the he

52:41

put the emos on and he

52:43

he did the pickleball But the pickleball

52:45

you supposed to move your head.

52:47

He didn't move his head. He just

52:49

walked straight in, you know He

52:51

he did the he did the pink,

52:53

but he didn't do the bull

52:56

You know, that's not good and he

52:58

walked in he was he was

53:00

getting hit with the jab He wasn't

53:02

using his jab enough to keep

53:04

Whitaker Defensive minded with

53:06

something coming back at him

53:08

He was coming in and in

53:10

a very slow his feet

53:12

was slow his closing was slow

53:14

He was very very one -dimensional

53:17

as I said, and that

53:19

wasn't gonna get it done with

53:21

it that immediately would have

53:23

recognized No, I'm gonna be able

53:25

to do what I wanted

53:27

to set the table with my

53:29

champ and then at the

53:31

right time I eat with the

53:34

right hand and he did

53:36

I'll finish with this, but the

53:38

final thing to me is

53:40

this. I think this fight was

53:42

over before it started. I

53:45

know people, I have a different

53:47

thought on things. I know people are

53:49

gonna say, some of them are

53:51

gonna stick maybe this or that or

53:53

think I'm crazy, but

53:55

I said it in the preview

53:58

of the fight last week. I

54:01

think that there's certain fighters. in

54:03

their career. I think Muhammad

54:05

Ali was one. I'm not putting Whitaker in that class.

54:08

I think it happened to,

54:10

I think it happened to

54:12

Bernard Hopkins on his way

54:14

up earlier in his career.

54:16

I think it's happened to

54:18

several fighters. Certain fighters

54:21

are chosen. They're

54:23

chosen by a destiny, by

54:25

a fate, their

54:27

talent, their hard work,

54:30

their dreams, all of

54:32

that. But it's like, it's in

54:34

their destiny to get there. And

54:37

I've seen it. I've

54:40

seen fights where

54:42

Ali against Cooper,

54:45

where he gets caught or left hook.

54:47

And he's hurt. He gets dropped. He gets

54:50

up. He's hurt. He goes back

54:52

to his corner. I don't know if

54:54

he's going to be able to recover in

54:56

time with one minute. But

54:58

what happens suddenly out of nowhere? Look,

55:00

I know he had a great corner man.

55:02

Angela Dundee, one of the greatest corner

55:04

men of all time. God bless him. God

55:06

rest his soul. But all of a

55:08

sudden there's a little tiny rip in the

55:10

glove. Someone else wouldn't

55:12

have noticed it. It never would have

55:14

been noticed. It wouldn't have been. It

55:16

wasn't big. Nobody knows. The

55:19

ref didn't notice the fight. Nobody would have noticed

55:21

it. But all of a sudden Angela says,

55:23

no, we got a rip in the glove. Now

55:25

they could have said, nah, it's not that bad.

55:27

And the fight could have went up, but they

55:29

said, okay, they changed gloves. By

55:32

the time they changed the gloves, five

55:34

minutes, 10 minutes, Ali is recovered

55:36

fully, goes out there, and what happens?

55:38

He wins the fight, he busts

55:40

up all Henry, who was prone to

55:42

getting cut. Good left hook, but

55:44

you could hit him and he was

55:46

very prone to getting cut. And

55:49

then Ali goes on to be Ali. If

55:51

he loses that fight, he don't go on to be

55:53

Ali. I think

55:55

it was in his destiny. There's

55:57

certain guys that that was meant

56:00

to be then the next fighting

56:02

fight scoopy wins easy So Here's

56:04

a fight where he's gonna get

56:06

beat. What is good is gonna

56:08

get beat that night. There's no

56:10

doubt in my mind. I don't

56:12

know whether or not he Didn't

56:14

want to get out up this

56:16

you can this both arguments that

56:18

when he went out of the

56:20

ring that he he wasn't as

56:23

hurt as he said he could

56:25

have got back in whatever it

56:27

was he recognized it wasn't his

56:29

night whatever but destiny shined on

56:31

him that night he did get

56:33

away out of a fight that

56:35

i don't think he was going

56:37

to win that night but he

56:39

got out of it he got

56:41

a chance destiny fate whatever he

56:43

got a chance To

56:46

get another shot at it on

56:48

a night that he would be better

56:50

on a night that would be

56:52

his night and what's he do? He

56:55

wins easy I've seen this

56:57

before I Know people want

56:59

from Teddy Atlas more tangible

57:01

stuff. It's about it's about

57:03

he didn't move his head

57:05

You know, he timed them.

57:07

He got I yeah, I

57:09

understand all that but sometimes

57:11

it's about other stuff, too

57:13

Called spiritual called whatever you

57:15

want to call it Call

57:17

it destiny Chosen I don't

57:19

know where this guy with

57:21

it goes going. I don't

57:23

know how much for you

57:25

I think he's he's with

57:27

the right guy with Andy.

57:29

I think it's only gonna

57:31

better him I Think he's

57:33

on the right track now,

57:35

but I do think that

57:37

there was more at play

57:39

I'm sorry then just He

57:41

got lucky And

57:43

he got out of that

57:45

last fight. Yeah, he got

57:47

lucky because I I'll say

57:49

it again I think that

57:51

night would it go was

57:54

gonna beat him? I mean

57:56

that our Kaverman was gonna

57:58

beat him that night But

58:00

he got out of it

58:02

Whether it was the hand

58:04

of destiny or was him

58:06

Just Fallen out of the

58:08

ring and getting lucky whatever

58:10

it was It was a It

58:13

was what it was meant to be

58:15

for this kid at this point in

58:18

his life Now I'm interested. I am

58:20

interested in this kid because that's how

58:22

I feel. I want to see now

58:24

What's in his future? I

58:26

want to see is he one of

58:28

those guys like I described where

58:30

Ali went on to be of course

58:32

There's only one Ali but but

58:34

not went on to be what he

58:36

went on to be and you

58:38

know again go down the road Yeah,

58:40

they we uh we have seen

58:42

this before and like you said with

58:44

Bernard Hopkins versus Robert Allen the

58:46

first fight he did fall out of

58:48

the ring he did not continue

58:50

the fight wound up being a no

58:53

contest get some time comes back

58:55

for the rematch gets the knockout so

58:57

a great example with the Ali

58:59

one as well I blame the management

59:01

a little bit or give credit

59:03

for Whitaker's management in corner right Tim

59:05

Zoo that fight Maybe he should

59:07

have went back home went back to

59:09

the drawing board came back He'd

59:11

still have his oh he'd still be

59:13

undefeated instead of losing his belt

59:15

or the opportunity to win the belt

59:17

verse Fondora with the bad cut

59:19

That's a good point the corner look

59:21

a trainer is very important in

59:23

the gym teaching very important preparation fight

59:25

plan and then very important like

59:28

I said about Angela Dundee, you know

59:30

one of the great I mean

59:32

he he He

59:34

was involved with one of the

59:36

greatest fighters of all time was couple

59:38

Sugar Ray Leonard too a lot

59:40

of good fighters He was involved with

59:42

a lot of good his brother Chris

59:45

Dundee was the big big big promoter

59:47

down in Miami He had all

59:49

the big fights. He had all the

59:51

big fighters and he allowed Angelo to

59:53

serve as apprenticeship while he was Doing

59:55

all these promoters and get an

59:57

opportunity to work with these great fighters

59:59

and Angelo made the best of it

1:00:01

and became one of the great cut

1:00:03

men of all time and one

1:00:05

of the great corner men of all

1:00:08

time. But again, if

1:00:10

Muhammad Ali doesn't have Angelo Dundee

1:00:12

in his corner at that time,

1:00:15

to be clear -minded with

1:00:17

all the chaos going on,

1:00:19

his undefeated fighter just

1:00:21

getting dropped, coming back to

1:00:24

the corner staggering, if

1:00:26

he didn't have the worth

1:00:28

or the mind to not

1:00:30

panic. and to think

1:00:32

clearly the way he did. It

1:00:35

could have been a whole different story.

1:00:39

We wouldn't be talking the way we're

1:00:41

talking about Muhammad Ali right now. So

1:00:44

yeah, it's important to,

1:00:46

the train is important, the corner

1:00:48

is important to be able, sometimes

1:00:50

you don't need them. There's times

1:00:52

when you say, ah, you know,

1:00:54

I don't even know who worked

1:00:56

the corner. I didn't even notice

1:00:58

them. But there are times. when

1:01:00

those times do come you are

1:01:03

very grateful you have one of them

1:01:05

in your corner at the right

1:01:07

time yeah that's right that was a

1:01:09

thorough breakdown I just the last

1:01:11

thing I will add on this is

1:01:13

you did nail it on the

1:01:16

preview leading up I asked you

1:01:18

your opinion who you thought would win

1:01:20

this one and you really did

1:01:22

all over it in this stoppage where

1:01:24

some people think was premature kind

1:01:26

of leads up more to exactly what

1:01:28

you were saying you said this

1:01:31

go around usually the guy who's on

1:01:33

the side of the promoter right

1:01:35

who's more lucrative the more charismatic guy

1:01:37

moves forward and that's exactly what

1:01:39

happened in this one so that

1:01:41

was a great breakdown that's all of

1:01:43

the fights are this past weekend Before

1:01:46

we do sign off we do want

1:01:48

a preview and let you guys Get

1:01:50

Teddy's thoughts on some upcoming bout so

1:01:52

the first one is next week April

1:01:55

26th from the UK huge fight the

1:01:57

sons of you bank versus Ben We

1:01:59

are going to live stream that fight

1:02:01

as well on our YouTube channel We'll

1:02:03

put up a post more remind everybody

1:02:05

so you could join in and listen

1:02:07

to Teddy's commentary But before you give

1:02:09

us a preview of the sons fighting

1:02:11

I just want you to touch on

1:02:13

the history that follows for twice, most

1:02:15

recently in 1993, which was a draw.

1:02:17

If you could just talk about the

1:02:20

history between the two, the bad blood,

1:02:22

and what makes this such a huge

1:02:24

fight in the UK, where the interest

1:02:26

in the United States isn't quite to

1:02:28

that level. No,

1:02:30

but that's not the new.

1:02:32

The UK is a

1:02:34

special place. It

1:02:37

really is. They got the greatest fans in the

1:02:39

world. They have the fans. They're

1:02:41

more connected to boxing with their

1:02:43

history than any other fans. They

1:02:45

go back further. It's just a

1:02:47

simple fact. They

1:02:49

go back further in

1:02:51

the sport of

1:02:54

boxing than any other

1:02:56

country than any

1:02:58

other, you know, people.

1:03:01

So they back their fighters

1:03:03

and they back and

1:03:05

they and if you don't

1:03:07

have a lot You

1:03:10

don't have a lot of

1:03:12

distraction over there where I used

1:03:14

to joke with my brothers

1:03:16

and sisters over there that I

1:03:18

loved them over there You

1:03:20

know and joke with of course

1:03:22

upon and say, you know,

1:03:24

you don't have Tiger Woods You

1:03:26

don't have Tom Brady. You

1:03:28

don't have LeBron James. You don't

1:03:30

have Michael Jordan, you know,

1:03:32

you know, you don't have all

1:03:34

these other sports and celebrity

1:03:36

great athletes and stars and and

1:03:38

to take away to distract

1:03:40

you have Boxing you got soccer

1:03:42

of course you got golf

1:03:44

you got dots you got a

1:03:46

little little snooker Snooker that's

1:03:48

different But you know you don't

1:03:50

have NFL I mean I

1:03:52

know they go over there now,

1:03:54

but you don't have you're

1:03:56

not locked into the NFL to

1:03:58

major league baseball to to

1:04:01

the degree That we are

1:04:03

here so you can build

1:04:05

a star Better

1:04:07

and easier and they do and

1:04:09

and the fans could connect with

1:04:11

the fighters and their personality Because

1:04:13

you could promote them because you

1:04:15

don't have the competition of all

1:04:18

these other things going on so

1:04:20

you could promote them in a

1:04:22

way where The fans start to

1:04:24

know them and feel like they

1:04:26

know them. That's what made So

1:04:28

many fights in England so big

1:04:30

and bigger than they would be

1:04:32

here. That's what made them so

1:04:35

big the people knew Ben They

1:04:37

knew you bank. They knew their

1:04:39

styles. They knew that plus they

1:04:41

were You bank was a brilliant

1:04:43

promoter. He knew how to promote

1:04:45

Ben was good too, but you

1:04:47

bank was really he was like

1:04:49

the ally to the Fraser He

1:04:52

knew how to promote he knew

1:04:54

how to do certain things to

1:04:56

make that fight as big as

1:04:58

it could be and it created

1:05:01

animosity between the two

1:05:03

because they had different

1:05:05

personalities different fighting styles,

1:05:07

but also different people

1:05:09

styles again just different

1:05:11

personalities and The conflict

1:05:13

of those personalities Made

1:05:15

for great great theater

1:05:17

and made for great

1:05:19

news because again the

1:05:21

promoters knew how to

1:05:24

promote they knew that

1:05:26

they had the audience

1:05:28

there the attention

1:05:30

of the audience there. They had

1:05:32

a captive audience. They weren't

1:05:34

being distracted by all these other

1:05:36

things we have here. And

1:05:38

it became a huge fight. And they

1:05:40

fought twice. And the first

1:05:42

time you banked one by, I think the

1:05:44

night found knockout. And then the second time

1:05:46

it was a draw, I believe. And

1:05:49

so they created this history.

1:05:51

And now the sons are

1:05:53

following. They're smart. And the

1:05:55

funny thing about this, The

1:05:58

sons are smart enough to

1:06:00

you can say they're getting

1:06:02

a paycheck from it there

1:06:04

You can say that you

1:06:06

can say, you know that

1:06:08

they're following their father's History

1:06:10

and their father's Reputations and

1:06:13

what the fathers did a

1:06:15

piggybacking off it to make

1:06:17

money. What's wrong with that?

1:06:19

There's still there's still fighters.

1:06:21

They've had both of these

1:06:23

guys have had careers significant

1:06:25

careers One of them's

1:06:27

undefeated. The other one's

1:06:29

got three losses. You bank. He's

1:06:31

been in there with good fighters.

1:06:33

They've had significant careers. They've been

1:06:35

around. Yeah, take advantage of

1:06:38

this history. Make it a

1:06:40

huge fight. Would it be over

1:06:42

here? No, but it is

1:06:44

for the reasons I said over

1:06:46

there. It's huge, huge. And

1:06:48

the funny thing about it that

1:06:50

I find really interesting is that

1:06:52

like their fathers, they kind

1:06:54

of stack up. Very similarly personalities

1:06:57

fighting style, you know you bank

1:06:59

is the promoter in this one

1:07:01

more so than Ben You know

1:07:03

Ben's again doing his part to

1:07:05

also be there to promote and

1:07:07

make it a big fight But

1:07:10

it's really you bank taking the

1:07:12

lead just like the father took

1:07:14

the lead as the promoter in

1:07:16

their fights and the styles of

1:07:18

the two fighters You bank in

1:07:21

this fight He has to fight

1:07:23

on the outside. He's got to

1:07:25

win. He's a naturally bigger guy.

1:07:27

Put that aside for me. He's

1:07:29

got to fight on the outside.

1:07:31

He's the guy who wants the

1:07:34

box. He's the guy who wants

1:07:36

to catch Ben coming in. Same

1:07:38

thing as the fathers. Chris,

1:07:41

U -Bank wanted a box. Very

1:07:43

physically strong. Good punch. Ben was

1:07:45

a good punch on both of

1:07:47

them. U -Bank wanted a box on

1:07:49

the outside and catch Ben coming

1:07:52

in. He wanted all the territory

1:07:54

on the outside. Ben wanted to

1:07:56

get inside and do his work.

1:07:59

Same thing, same

1:08:01

setup here. Exactly. I

1:08:04

find it really interesting when

1:08:06

you start breaking it down.

1:08:08

Alright, you just talked about Chris Eubank

1:08:11

Sr. and Nigel Ben, the

1:08:13

Follers. Before we get into your

1:08:15

preview and your thoughts of the matchup

1:08:17

coming up April 26th of their

1:08:19

son's fighting I saw recently and I

1:08:21

want to ask you your opinion

1:08:23

and provide some clarity to this an

1:08:26

interview on a podcast That's going

1:08:28

around on social media where Chris Eubanks

1:08:30

senior said that he had an

1:08:32

incident in altercation with you many years

1:08:34

ago in the 1980s One for

1:08:36

Teddy, Teddy Atlas Teddy Atlas I said

1:08:38

I said to him because it

1:08:41

was his fighter I fought And I

1:08:43

said I said uh this guy

1:08:45

is he's much heavier than me I

1:08:47

said this this is not fair

1:08:49

what you did he said listen you

1:08:51

lost a fight just leave it

1:08:53

okay I said no I didn't I

1:08:56

said you've cheated me okay right

1:08:58

Teddy Atlas had a fight with him

1:09:00

Mike Tyson you can check this

1:09:02

Mike would have seen that now listen

1:09:04

to this he bit my ear

1:09:06

Teddy Atlas bit my ear in a

1:09:08

physical fight I had with him

1:09:11

after the first loss I had And

1:09:13

that would be nice, because

1:09:16

I'm not looking at this guy,

1:09:18

because he's a real kind

1:09:20

of... I don't want to... because

1:09:22

I'm not being derogatory about

1:09:24

him, but... He's a character. Yes,

1:09:27

but he's a rough... I

1:09:29

love dogs, okay? But he

1:09:32

looks like a rough dog.

1:09:34

He talks like a rough

1:09:36

dog. you understand? He's

1:09:38

old school, do you understand? Again

1:09:42

something that you've never talked about publicly It's

1:09:44

never been heard of but he put it out

1:09:46

there and since he did I just wanted

1:09:48

you to be able to have a chance and

1:09:50

piggyback off of it But if you could

1:09:52

just touch on that altercation he said that you

1:09:54

were a rugged tough man What was he

1:09:56

talking about in and just for the viewers out

1:09:58

there since he put it out there? What

1:10:00

did happen? No

1:10:02

animosity at all. I have nothing

1:10:04

but respect For

1:10:07

Chris Eubank Both of them,

1:10:10

but for in particular right now

1:10:12

Chris Eubank senior I I

1:10:14

have respect for the man he

1:10:16

is The fighter he became

1:10:18

How I mean this is a

1:10:20

guy who and I have

1:10:22

to say this as long as

1:10:25

I'm gonna touch on it.

1:10:27

This is a guy who He

1:10:29

went to America to get the

1:10:32

little bit I know to get amateur

1:10:34

fights to get better training to get

1:10:36

training that he thought would help him

1:10:38

as an amateur and then he and

1:10:40

then he got that for the amateur

1:10:42

and then he went back to England

1:10:44

and he was smart he had a

1:10:46

plan he had an idea he you

1:10:49

know he really did he got to

1:10:51

give people like that credit he had

1:10:53

a plan for his life and he

1:10:55

had the discipline to enact that plan

1:10:57

and the creativity to

1:10:59

see it to to to visualize

1:11:01

it and it was to be

1:11:03

a world champion fighter but also

1:11:05

to be a world champion promoter

1:11:07

to go over to england where

1:11:10

he knew that that over there

1:11:12

they don't have as you know

1:11:14

it's not as crowded as it

1:11:16

is here with fighters and

1:11:18

with, you know, with attention to

1:11:20

the fighters to get on TV

1:11:22

here, to be a star here.

1:11:25

I mean, you got to practically be like,

1:11:27

you know, Mike Tyson. I'm exaggerating,

1:11:29

but I'm just making a point. But

1:11:32

over there, they

1:11:34

were more thirsty

1:11:36

for not just

1:11:38

for athletes and

1:11:40

for champions. but

1:11:43

for champions they could identify with.

1:11:45

For champions that they could

1:11:47

get excited about. And he became

1:11:49

that guy. He became,

1:11:51

you know, one of

1:11:53

those guys where he

1:11:56

created a niche for

1:11:58

himself more than a

1:12:00

niche. I mean,

1:12:02

he created a career. He

1:12:05

was undefeated. He was a very

1:12:07

strong, good puncher, good fighter. He

1:12:10

knew exactly what he wanted

1:12:12

to be, outside the ring

1:12:14

and inside, as a businessman, as a guy

1:12:16

that was successful, where he could take

1:12:18

care of his family, where it was going

1:12:20

to pay off for him, where it

1:12:23

was going to be smart business, not just

1:12:25

doing it only just to be a

1:12:27

fighter. But no, I'm going to do it

1:12:29

to make money, to take care of

1:12:31

my family, and to be a champion, and

1:12:34

to be recognized. And

1:12:36

we're being recognized in that

1:12:38

way will pay dividends for me

1:12:40

in the way I wanted

1:12:42

to as being a star. And

1:12:45

the discipline was in the ring

1:12:47

too. He had the discipline outside

1:12:49

to do that. And in the

1:12:51

ring, he had the discipline to

1:12:53

fight the exact right way he

1:12:55

needed to for his abilities. Strong,

1:12:58

physically strong, fight on

1:13:00

the outside. Look to let

1:13:02

other guys take chances, try

1:13:04

to counter them, try to catch

1:13:06

them on the way in,

1:13:08

try to be as productive a

1:13:10

box as he could be,

1:13:12

efficient, effective, and dangerous, because

1:13:14

he was powerful. And if he made

1:13:16

you take chances, he had a chance to

1:13:18

catch you on the way in. What

1:13:22

I just described

1:13:24

really deserves really great

1:13:26

credit. that he

1:13:28

planned that that way.

1:13:31

Part of his plan early in

1:13:34

his life was he was

1:13:36

in New York. I guess

1:13:38

he was getting average of fights.

1:13:40

He happened to be in the Bronx.

1:13:42

If my memory serves me correct,

1:13:44

it's over 40 years ago. I forgot

1:13:46

about it until you brought it

1:13:49

up that he talked about it. And

1:13:52

I would only talk about it in

1:13:54

a respectful way because I have respect

1:13:56

for him. We were both different people,

1:13:58

younger, a lot younger. Again,

1:14:00

it was, I think it was 43 years ago

1:14:02

now, did you say it? And we

1:14:04

were in the Bronx, they had fights,

1:14:06

they had smokers in the Bronx. Nelson

1:14:08

Queves used to run the fights there

1:14:11

at the Apollo. I used to take

1:14:13

my amateurs there. When I was up

1:14:15

in Catskill, I would take my tights

1:14:17

and I would take all my team

1:14:19

there to get experience, to get fights.

1:14:21

Because after you worked hard with them

1:14:23

to be a fighter, And

1:14:25

you in the gym now you had

1:14:27

to go get fights. You had

1:14:29

to get experience and there wasn't a

1:14:31

lot of that upstate So I

1:14:33

took them down to the Bronx where

1:14:35

every week you had smokers and

1:14:37

like I said Nelson Queves at the

1:14:40

Apollo on Westchester Avenue They had

1:14:42

fights and we made the fights and

1:14:44

now I left Catskill I had

1:14:46

left I don't know if I was

1:14:48

still in Catskill or or not.

1:14:50

I think I had left Catskill. I

1:14:52

know he had mentioned that Tyson

1:14:54

was there. I'm not sure Tyson was

1:14:56

there. I'm sure that

1:14:59

he's being honest that that's his

1:15:01

recollection. But I don't I don't

1:15:03

know because when I went there,

1:15:05

I went there when Tyson was

1:15:07

around. I brought all my amateurs

1:15:09

from Catskill. But then

1:15:11

when I left Catskill

1:15:13

and I walked away from

1:15:15

there, I began training

1:15:18

fighters. when I came down to

1:15:20

New York in Gleason Strip in Manhattan. And

1:15:23

when I was developing amateurs, just like

1:15:25

I did up in Catskill, I needed

1:15:27

a place to get experience. Where

1:15:29

did I take them? I took

1:15:31

my new stable fighters. This

1:15:34

new venture I was doing with

1:15:36

new kids down in New York, I

1:15:38

would take them to the Apollo

1:15:40

and other places that were available to

1:15:42

get experience. I think,

1:15:45

again, it's a long time ago. God.

1:15:47

I think that I

1:15:49

had a fighter named Jose.

1:15:56

Son of Ortiz, I believe. He was a

1:15:58

good kid. I think I had a

1:16:00

fighter. I don't know if that was his

1:16:02

name. Anyway, Jose.

1:16:05

I had a fighter that was

1:16:07

like a junior middleweight. Junior

1:16:10

middleweight, middleweight, somewhere around

1:16:12

there. And I believe

1:16:14

they fought. Again, it's a long

1:16:16

time ago. The only thing that

1:16:18

revisited my memory was when you

1:16:20

show me that tape that Chris

1:16:22

talked about that moment. Then

1:16:25

I started remembering what I

1:16:27

can remember. What I

1:16:29

remember that differs with him a little bit. And

1:16:31

again, I'm sure it's his memory. I

1:16:33

don't know if I still was

1:16:36

in Catskill at that time, and

1:16:38

I had Tyson, or I was

1:16:40

with a different group of fighters

1:16:42

I was developing, like I said,

1:16:44

down here at Gleason's, continuing my

1:16:46

life as a trainer, having left

1:16:48

Catskill. And I had this kid,

1:16:50

Jose, there. Whatever

1:16:52

it was, I had

1:16:54

a fighter matched

1:16:57

to fight Chris.

1:17:00

I don't remember much about it. They

1:17:02

fought, I guess. We

1:17:04

won the fight. And

1:17:06

there was an altercation,

1:17:09

little disagreement in the

1:17:11

locker room after the

1:17:13

fight. Look, Chris is

1:17:15

what he is. He's

1:17:17

a proud man. I'm

1:17:20

kind of proud too. And

1:17:22

he's a proud man. He

1:17:25

was a young fighter. He

1:17:27

had, you know, and he

1:17:29

felt He lost

1:17:31

the fight obviously he Expected

1:17:34

to win Obviously that bothered

1:17:36

him it should bother. That's

1:17:38

why he became a world

1:17:40

champ It showed right there

1:17:42

that he had the makings

1:17:44

of a world champ because

1:17:46

it did bother him because

1:17:48

he he was competitive he

1:17:50

didn't want to lose and

1:17:52

If it didn't bother him

1:17:54

he probably wouldn't became what

1:17:57

he became so He came

1:17:59

back in the locker room

1:18:01

and he, I guess he

1:18:03

addressed me. I guess

1:18:05

he, I guess he accused me

1:18:07

of saying that my fighter

1:18:09

was heavier than his. But

1:18:12

really, we

1:18:15

had a scale. You

1:18:17

know, we're up and we're up near

1:18:19

the yells where the trains came back. They

1:18:21

shook the whole place. You know, we

1:18:23

were in a tough area in the South

1:18:25

Bronx. We didn't have no fancy

1:18:27

scales. But you had

1:18:30

a bathroom scale and the bathroom

1:18:32

scale they got on it

1:18:34

He wouldn't have gotten in the

1:18:36

ring if he didn't get

1:18:38

on the scale. So whatever the

1:18:40

scale said, I don't know

1:18:42

how I would have done anything

1:18:44

to You know fraudulate that

1:18:46

or fix that or cheat but

1:18:48

again, I He believes it

1:18:51

that way then I can only

1:18:53

say I don't remember it

1:18:55

that way. I don't remember lot

1:18:57

about it other than that me

1:19:00

and him get into a little You

1:19:02

know Tassel Because he was proud

1:19:04

he was saying I cheated I guess

1:19:06

basically or that your fighter was

1:19:08

too heavy you and I guess I

1:19:10

was trying to explain to him

1:19:12

like How could he be too heavy

1:19:14

if you got on the scale

1:19:16

and he got on the scale? What's

1:19:18

the matter? Yeah, you know

1:19:20

Maybe I was a wise guy.

1:19:23

What's matter? You can't read the

1:19:25

numbers you couldn't You couldn't see

1:19:27

what you know, whatever when when

1:19:29

you get into that spot. He's

1:19:31

proud. I'm not gonna let him

1:19:33

You know Intimidate me or bulldoze

1:19:35

me or get away. So we

1:19:37

got into what sometimes people get

1:19:39

into we got into a little

1:19:41

bit of a skirmish and I

1:19:44

did hear on the video though.

1:19:47

I got as long as we're

1:19:49

talking about it because again, I

1:19:51

forgot I don't remember this but

1:19:53

He did say and he was

1:19:55

very Gently I always he's a

1:19:57

gentleman. He was a gentleman at

1:19:59

that moment, but he was always

1:20:01

a gentleman He conducts himself like

1:20:03

a gentleman. I have respect for

1:20:05

him obviously as you can tell

1:20:07

what he made himself but in

1:20:09

the way he conducts himself now

1:20:11

but He mentioned to the

1:20:13

people were doing the interview that

1:20:15

I bit him I bit his ear.

1:20:17

I don't remember that You know,

1:20:19

I hope he has a full year

1:20:21

I would feel terrible to find

1:20:23

out that you know because if I

1:20:25

saw him I would give him

1:20:27

a hug and say hey Chris because

1:20:29

I've seen him after I would

1:20:31

give him a hug but now I

1:20:33

probably hug and look and see

1:20:35

you know Did I really do that?

1:20:37

Did I do that? I don't

1:20:39

listen um Well, I'm joking with

1:20:42

the situation. I thank God it

1:20:44

didn't turn out to be serious, right?

1:20:46

43 years later, we can do

1:20:48

that, right? We can do that as

1:20:50

human beings. They've gotten to the

1:20:52

right place in life now that are

1:20:54

better, that are smarter, that

1:20:56

are more mature now. I was doing

1:20:58

what I thought I had to do defending my

1:21:00

fighter. He was doing what he had to do, defending

1:21:03

himself and his pride. I

1:21:05

get it. I understand. I

1:21:07

respect it. I just...

1:21:11

if you ever hear this, I hope I didn't bite

1:21:13

you here. I don't remember that if I did. I

1:21:16

hope it was just a

1:21:18

very, very quick little, you

1:21:21

know, nibble, kind of

1:21:23

like my grandkids do to me. I

1:21:26

hope it wasn't

1:21:28

anything significant. And

1:21:31

he did, as you did, respectfully

1:21:33

tell the story. You could

1:21:35

tell, like you said. he is a

1:21:37

gentleman and uh there's a reason why

1:21:39

he feels such a way right now

1:21:41

towards his son and the disrespect he

1:21:44

showed towards the other side and why

1:21:46

he's not going to work his corner

1:21:48

going into that one so with that

1:21:50

being said we'll get into the suns

1:21:52

now and talk about the main event

1:21:54

coming up saturday april 26th my preview

1:21:56

of this fight is gonna end in

1:21:58

youtube and take me wherever you want

1:22:01

bud but my preview of this fight

1:22:03

It's the same as it would have

1:22:05

been for the fathers. How unusual is

1:22:07

that? Really? You can't make that up.

1:22:10

The U -Bank, and maybe it's because

1:22:12

the influence of the fathers, watching them

1:22:14

in the gym, you

1:22:17

know, influencing them in

1:22:19

the gym to fight

1:22:21

the styles similar to them.

1:22:23

Yes, yes, very much so.

1:22:25

Maybe that's it. But whatever it

1:22:28

is, it is strikingly

1:22:30

similar. My preview you

1:22:32

bank will be on the outside.

1:22:34

He's a bigger guy He's a

1:22:36

natural be he's gonna look to

1:22:38

catch the smaller man coming in

1:22:40

Ben is gonna have to burden

1:22:42

like his father of Bringing the

1:22:44

fight to you bank. He's gonna

1:22:46

have to burden of that and

1:22:48

the risk of that on his

1:22:50

shoulders Well, he's gonna have to

1:22:52

take more chances. He's naturally more

1:22:54

of an off Offensively

1:22:57

aggressified like that. He hasn't

1:22:59

learned how to lose shed He

1:23:01

hasn't been real active in

1:23:03

the last few years one fight

1:23:05

every year. Maybe something like

1:23:07

that It hasn't been real active.

1:23:09

I would like it better

1:23:11

if he was a little more

1:23:13

active, but he's a younger

1:23:15

man he He's got more of

1:23:17

a prototypical Pro style that

1:23:19

most people most fans find fan

1:23:21

-friendly and find it easier to

1:23:24

kind of embrace and Wrap

1:23:26

their heads around he he's

1:23:28

gonna look to get to

1:23:30

he's gonna go to the

1:23:32

body. He's a good offensive

1:23:34

fighter He's gonna look to

1:23:36

get in close. He's gonna

1:23:38

look to put punches together.

1:23:40

He's gonna look to bring

1:23:42

the fight He's gonna look

1:23:44

to be the offensive force

1:23:46

And again, he's got a

1:23:48

guy who's gonna who's bigger

1:23:50

who's longer who's gonna whose

1:23:52

style, whose temperament is to

1:23:54

fight a fight on the

1:23:56

outside, take less risk, try

1:23:58

to make you take the

1:24:00

risk, make you pay for

1:24:02

that. So

1:24:05

it should be with the

1:24:07

contrasting styles. It

1:24:09

should be really, really interesting.

1:24:12

So you got bed in a smaller

1:24:14

man and then there's a hydration clause.

1:24:16

We got to get into that because

1:24:18

he is too small. He was a

1:24:20

welterweight that he fought a few fights

1:24:22

in junior middleweight. But

1:24:25

you banks been a middleweight

1:24:27

and super middleweight most of

1:24:29

his career. So he is

1:24:31

the guy who's bigger I

1:24:33

See the fight as Ben

1:24:35

having to get close without

1:24:37

taking damage So it's gonna

1:24:39

be up to him to

1:24:41

him and his trainers that

1:24:43

they came up the right

1:24:45

plan in the gym faints

1:24:48

Draw the punches to counters out

1:24:50

of you bank before you

1:24:52

walk into them. You're not gonna

1:24:54

front door coming inside door

1:24:56

but not just not be What

1:24:58

you bank want you to

1:25:00

be predictable coming in a front

1:25:02

door where you can counter

1:25:04

the crap out of you and

1:25:07

catch you with the biggest

1:25:09

shots For me, that's the preview

1:25:12

He's got to be able to

1:25:15

be aggressive in an effective

1:25:17

proficient way without being recklessly aggressive.

1:25:19

That's it put a ball

1:25:21

on it For you bank, he's

1:25:23

got to be able to

1:25:25

control the outside and make Ben

1:25:27

try to get to him

1:25:29

and Again, what are my favorite

1:25:31

cliches? Muggle when he goes

1:25:33

through a bad neighborhood make him

1:25:36

go to a bad neighborhood

1:25:38

to get to him and catch

1:25:40

him Catch him with an

1:25:42

uppercut catch him with a straight

1:25:44

right hand, but catch him

1:25:46

and do damage Here's how I

1:25:48

think it's gonna play out.

1:25:50

I don't know how pretty it's

1:25:52

gonna be I don't know

1:25:54

how pretty it's gonna be because

1:25:57

Ben is Ben will look

1:25:59

to get close and he's gonna

1:26:01

have to be really Disciplined

1:26:03

with his fight plan his training

1:26:05

where when he gets close

1:26:07

he doesn't get tied up The

1:26:10

referee is going to be important

1:26:12

that it's got to be a referee

1:26:14

for Ben It's got to be

1:26:16

your and for her it's got to

1:26:18

be a referee that allows you

1:26:20

to fight in sights if he's breaking

1:26:22

you every bit you Oobanks you

1:26:24

banks gonna have the edge see I'm

1:26:26

gonna go deeper to this I'm

1:26:28

gonna give you everything to put your

1:26:30

a couple of shackles, you know,

1:26:32

we call them shackles or over there

1:26:34

shackles or actually Put

1:26:38

a few quid right my brothers

1:26:41

and sisters, you know bet responsibly

1:26:43

not recklessly But a couple quid

1:26:45

where you're gonna put a couple

1:26:47

quid? Well, you're gonna again You

1:26:49

better have the right referee if

1:26:51

you want Ben that's gonna allow

1:26:53

to fight on the inside if

1:26:56

you have Your bank you want

1:26:58

a referee that's gonna break them

1:27:00

every time they get in close

1:27:02

Because you back wants to do

1:27:04

have distance and range to do

1:27:06

his damage Ben must have the

1:27:09

must be prepared to move his

1:27:11

feet back himself, room, not

1:27:13

get smothered. And again, it takes

1:27:15

two to tangle to tie someone

1:27:17

up. You don't get

1:27:19

tied up just because you get tied up.

1:27:21

You allow the guy to tie you up. You

1:27:23

put your hands where he can tie you

1:27:25

up. You get too close where he can grab

1:27:27

you. It's gonna be

1:27:29

up to Ben to

1:27:31

have prepared where he does

1:27:34

not make it easy. For

1:27:37

you bank to tie him up

1:27:39

on the inside. He don't cooperate

1:27:41

with him and For bed. I

1:27:44

mean for you bank He's not

1:27:46

afraid to tie guys up. That's

1:27:48

why I'm saying it could get

1:27:50

a little where it's not the

1:27:52

prettiest fight Because you bank he

1:27:54

gets off on the outside you

1:27:57

get close here tie up. He

1:27:59

has no qualms No problems with

1:28:01

people booing. He's got thick skin

1:28:03

with that stuff He's

1:28:05

got he got no problem if they

1:28:07

bully ties him up as long as he

1:28:09

thinks it's gonna give him the edge

1:28:12

in a fight to win and you know

1:28:14

what? Quite frankly, I

1:28:16

agree with him. That's all he

1:28:18

should care about Nothing else.

1:28:20

I think it's an interesting fight.

1:28:22

I like the style of

1:28:24

Ben because I'm more of that

1:28:26

I like that style You

1:28:28

know, he's more conventional, he's tough,

1:28:30

he's gonna, he's a good

1:28:32

offensive fighter, he have mixed defense

1:28:34

with offense, you know,

1:28:36

he'll move his head. I like

1:28:38

that style. I like it

1:28:40

more than the U -Bank style,

1:28:43

but it doesn't mean that U

1:28:45

-Bank can't be effective and efficient.

1:28:47

He has been with his

1:28:49

style. Now as far as the

1:28:51

weights, with this

1:28:53

rehydration, here's

1:28:56

my question. You told me

1:28:58

about it. You told me

1:29:00

that the contract's 160. There's

1:29:02

a rehydration clause that The

1:29:04

U bank can't come in

1:29:06

over 170 can't be more

1:29:08

than 170. What does that

1:29:11

mean? I want to know

1:29:13

more than that that I

1:29:15

I've been there. I've had

1:29:17

fighters with these rehydration clauses

1:29:19

What they usually do is

1:29:21

the next morning you can't

1:29:23

be more than 10 pounds

1:29:25

over the contracted weight, but That's

1:29:28

in the morning, eight in the morning. Then

1:29:31

you go and you eat, you

1:29:33

have, you continue to hydrate, you eat,

1:29:35

you eat a couple more meals.

1:29:37

By the time you get into the

1:29:39

arena, you could have put on

1:29:41

another 10, 15 pounds. That

1:29:43

is what I want to know. When?

1:29:46

I don't want to just know that they're

1:29:49

telling me, oh, don't worry.

1:29:51

He can't get more than 170.

1:29:53

There's a rehydration cause. But when

1:29:55

are you going to weigh him?

1:29:57

You're gonna weigh him in the morning.

1:30:00

That's it. It means nothing to me

1:30:02

nothing Advantage you back But I doesn't

1:30:04

mean when he gets to the arena

1:30:06

two hours before the fight you're gonna

1:30:08

make him get on a scale and

1:30:10

Make sure he's not one. I think

1:30:12

it's a little late dad. What are

1:30:14

you gonna call a fight off? I

1:30:17

don't know how management could agree with

1:30:19

that. How could you go along and

1:30:21

allow your fighter to? Go

1:30:23

along with a close like that two hours before the

1:30:25

fight. I would hope it's early in the morning Yeah,

1:30:28

but if it is over

1:30:30

in the morning, I hope it's

1:30:32

not see I'm gonna go

1:30:34

get you and I hate to

1:30:36

go against you because to

1:30:38

me Then it's just it's just

1:30:40

for us to think something

1:30:42

was done. It's just flash It's

1:30:44

just show because there's an

1:30:46

old we protected the fighters we

1:30:48

made sure he couldn't get

1:30:50

more than 170 pounds But did

1:30:52

you really protect them? Because

1:30:54

there's another 12 hours before

1:30:56

the fight Knows 12 or 15

1:30:58

hours, whatever it is. It

1:31:00

knows 15 hours from the morning

1:31:02

to the fight How much

1:31:04

more weights you gonna put that's

1:31:06