0:00

Hey guys, thanks for tuning in to

0:02

this episode of the Game of Gymnastics

0:04

podcast. This week I'm joined by Danusha

0:06

Francis Reed, a British gymnast turned N.C.A.

0:08

Legend, turned Olympic gymnast for Jamaica. We'll

0:11

talk about her journey, her advice for

0:13

the next generations of gymnasts, and what

0:15

she's doing to spread the world of

0:17

gymnastics far and wide. It's not one

0:19

to miss out on. I hope you enjoy. Welcome

0:27

to the Game Gymnastics podcast.

0:29

Thank you all for listening.

0:31

And today we've got a

0:33

very special guest. I'm honestly

0:35

very surprised that she agreed

0:37

to do this with such

0:39

so little prompting, so little

0:42

convincing. So she is a

0:44

veteran of women's gymnastics, an

0:46

Olympian for Jamaica competed for

0:48

and in Great Britain for

0:50

many many years. had a

0:52

very substantial and successful NCAA

0:54

career. I would like to

0:57

introduce Danusha Francis Reed.

0:59

Thank you Winston. That's a

1:01

lovely introduction and I've seen

1:04

your podcast so it didn't

1:06

take too much convincing. Well, thank

1:08

you very much. So just a

1:10

little bit of an overview about

1:12

yourself. Who are you? What do you

1:14

do now? So I'm Danusha Francis Reed.

1:17

So now I... do a few different jobs I

1:19

do presenting so I was lucky enough

1:21

to be commentating at the Paris Olympics

1:23

which was amazing a real dream come

1:26

true in this part of my career

1:28

and then I'm still involved in gymnastics

1:30

I'm on the border British gymnastics I'm

1:32

also on the Pan American athletes commission

1:35

and just do a lot of freelance

1:37

coaching and choreography and also a bit

1:39

of recruiting for gymnasts I want to

1:42

go to college in America so it

1:44

keeps me busy. Very nice yeah

1:46

got it. Got a lot going

1:48

on. Yeah, definitely. So just to

1:51

give the audience a little bit

1:53

of a background on you and

1:55

why you're so interested in

1:57

gymnastics, how do you get in?

1:59

to it in the first place so

2:02

where did it all start? So my

2:04

mum was a single parent of four

2:06

children so that was a lot of

2:08

energy for her to handle so she

2:11

took us to a lot of after

2:13

school clubs and activities and someone suggested

2:15

gymnastics so we went along to an

2:18

after school gymnastics club and I just

2:20

loved it. I was just so in

2:22

awe of, they were probably just doing

2:24

cartwheels and forward drills, but I was

2:27

like, wow, I need to be able

2:29

to do all of that. And yeah,

2:31

you know, when you're at that age,

2:33

it just becomes an obsession, you love

2:36

it so much. And then discovered that

2:38

I had talent as well, and yeah,

2:40

just from there, I just didn't look

2:43

back and eventually went to Heathrow on

2:45

a scholarship. So I was at boarding

2:47

school from the age of nine, but

2:49

that was an amazing decision decision for

2:52

me. and all these sort of big

2:54

life decisions I made at a young

2:56

age they all stem from gymnastics but

2:58

they really shaped my life and sort

3:01

of who I am today. Yeah I

3:03

think when you get into gymnastics you

3:05

really get into gymnastics your whole life

3:08

revolves around it like there's no there's

3:10

no turning back from it just kind

3:12

of what I've done this to be

3:14

fair. Yeah and your family as well

3:17

like everyone has to be a bit

3:19

involved don't know? Yeah exactly. like my

3:21

sister used to do gymnastics and my

3:23

mom's a gymnastics coach so yeah like

3:26

everyone's involved with it. Yeah so from

3:28

then how did you get to competing

3:30

in like the British and then further?

3:33

So I was just kind of following

3:35

the pathways doing compulsories and volatries. And

3:37

then the first one that you could

3:39

do when I was nine years old

3:42

was compulsory for and I won that

3:44

so that was crazy because obviously you

3:46

don't know how good you are against

3:48

everyone else in Britain until you compete

3:51

against everyone else in Britain and then

3:53

obviously went on to the volunteers and

3:55

then I ended up winning the kind

3:58

of combined British Championship that year. So

4:00

the first chance. I could to become

4:02

a British champion, I did, which was

4:04

just unbelievable. Looking back, it's like pretty

4:07

cool. And I always keep that medal.

4:09

That's one of my favorite medals because

4:11

it kind of was such a big

4:13

moment for my young self. Yeah, and

4:16

then just going forward from there, just

4:18

carrying on through the ranks. I think

4:20

I sort of stayed at least in

4:23

the top six all throughout my career

4:25

with Great Britain, which was until... I

4:27

was 19, when I was 18 was

4:29

when I went to UCLA, so University

4:32

of California in Los Angeles, on a

4:34

gymnastic scholarship. And I did one more

4:36

competition for Great Britain, which was the

4:38

World University Games, which you have to

4:41

be a university student, so obviously it's

4:43

a little bit easier. You're not fighting

4:45

for a spot against the rest of

4:48

the national squad, just a few people.

4:50

And that was an amazing competition, actually,

4:52

a really great one to kind of

4:54

finish my Great Britain career on. because

4:57

to then carry on competing for Great

4:59

Britain while living in America just wasn't

5:01

going to be feasible to fly back

5:03

from LA to make squads and trials

5:06

and stuff, a bit too expensive and

5:08

when you're on a scholarship obviously that's

5:10

your priority. So I kind of looked

5:13

into my options and I never thought

5:15

I would want to compete elite again,

5:17

but going to college gymnastics really made

5:19

me fall in love with a sport

5:22

again. It's just so much fun out

5:24

there. Yeah, it was just such a

5:26

great experience. So then I'm half Polish

5:28

and half Jamaican, so I looked into

5:31

both options, but I just felt like

5:33

I'd fit in with the Jamaican team.

5:35

I've always been a massive U.S. and

5:38

bolt fan. So that really convinced me.

5:40

Oh, we all. And then part of

5:42

competing for Jamaica. So yeah, that was

5:44

a crazy ride. And I definitely see

5:47

my career in chapters and was very

5:49

much an adult when I was competing

5:51

with Jamaican. just the authority and I

5:53

was really dictating my career at that

5:56

point and After college I didn't stop

5:58

for a couple of years before they

6:00

going on to aim for my Olympic

6:03

dreams in Tokyo, which obviously I did

6:05

end up becoming an Olympian in Tokyo,

6:07

but it wasn't without some hiccups along

6:09

the way. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah,

6:12

so when you, sorry, when you talked

6:14

about that first British that you won,

6:16

would you say that was the sort

6:18

of moment that you realized that you

6:21

could... be something in the sport that

6:23

you could do great things in the

6:25

sport? Yeah, I think so actually. When

6:28

you're that age, you obviously don't kind

6:30

of keep an eye on the scores

6:32

and you don't really think where am

6:34

I ranking. So I just remember being

6:37

stood there, Guilford spectrum and like, you

6:39

know, you're lined up around the outside

6:41

waiting for them to do the presentation

6:43

and having no idea where I'd come.

6:46

And then obviously they go sort of

6:48

from... six to one and then when

6:50

they said like the British champion and

6:52

they said my name I just remember

6:55

thinking like looking around just thinking no

6:57

one else has stepped forward it must

6:59

have been my name. So tiny like

7:02

taking this massive step up onto the

7:04

first place podium and like looking for

7:06

my mum in the crowd and obviously

7:08

for her too she had no idea

7:11

that I was kind of like that

7:13

good so to speak so yeah it

7:15

was just an amazing moment and then

7:17

I think I remember then sort of

7:20

thinking maybe I can go to the

7:22

Olympics I remember seeing it a few

7:24

years before. and being inspired by it

7:27

then, but yeah, then I think it

7:29

felt like it could be something real.

7:31

Yeah, I mean, that is a very,

7:33

very big achievement getting British all around

7:36

gold. Like, that is like, when you're

7:38

that age, that is the top achievement

7:40

that you could do out of anything.

7:42

So that sort of would be like

7:45

a defining moment in your life, but

7:47

probably the defining moment up to that

7:49

point. in your life, so yeah, definitely.

7:52

You also mentioned the anti-double A in

7:54

competing over. America what drew you to

7:56

that what sort of was the thing

7:58

that pulled you into there? Initially obviously

8:01

I spoke about how much I love

8:03

gymnastics as a young child but then

8:05

you know you get into your teenage

8:07

years there's all the pressures there's school

8:10

and you know national squads and stuff

8:12

like that weren't always so fun and

8:14

you when you start to realize you're

8:17

good you put that pressure on yourself

8:19

as well. So kind of in my

8:21

teenage years I was always thinking I

8:23

would stop gymnastics at 18. That was

8:26

the age I was going to be

8:28

for the 24 Olympics. I was like

8:30

perfect. I'll stop gymnastics, go to university,

8:32

start like the next chapter in my

8:35

life. And that always felt right to

8:37

me in those years. And I thought

8:39

whether I make the Olympics or not

8:42

it's kind of just a good stopping

8:44

point. And then a couple of my

8:46

friends went out to America and my

8:48

mom was like, oh, why don't you

8:51

look into it? We're doing four more

8:53

years of gymnastics at that point when

8:55

I wasn't enjoying it as much as

8:57

I had when I was a child

9:00

just seemed like a lot. But she

9:02

was quite persistent in at least look

9:04

into it kind of thing. And I

9:07

was like, for some reason, I said

9:09

to my mom, I'll only look into

9:11

it if I can go to UCLA.

9:13

I just like heard of UCLA. I

9:16

think it's clothing brands that they sold

9:18

and it's obviously quite a well-known university.

9:20

And I think I just did it

9:22

just to quiet in my mum's mouth.

9:25

Yeah, I can imagine. And then my

9:27

mom was on like a message board

9:29

that they those type of things they

9:32

had back in the day and said

9:34

like, oh this is my daughter, do

9:36

you think any universities would be interested

9:38

in her? a few people replied to

9:41

her and one of them happened to

9:43

have connections to UCLA so they sent

9:45

over a few videos of me to

9:47

the coaches and they were interested so

9:50

at that point I'm I do stick

9:52

to my word so I was like

9:54

okay fine if the coaches are interested

9:57

I will go and look at it

9:59

now when I look back I'm like

10:01

wow I was so like title and

10:03

you're not far from Hollywood. It was

10:06

like one of the best universities in

10:08

the world. Yeah, so I went off

10:10

and had an official visit where you

10:12

go for a weekend and you get

10:15

to experience it. And that was what

10:17

sold me. It was just incredible, like

10:19

straight out of a movie. The campus

10:22

is beautiful and you went to a

10:24

football game and some of the teammates

10:26

took me out to a party and

10:28

it was just literally like, like a

10:31

movie and you're not far from Hollywood.

10:33

Okay mom you were right fine I'll

10:35

go. I'll concede that you am right

10:37

this time. Hey guys Winston here I

10:40

hope you're enjoying the episode so far

10:42

if you are please do leave a

10:44

like subscribe and leave a comment if

10:47

you can. Also if you are marginalized

10:49

to Compton from me you can check

10:51

on my Instagram at W Powell 05

10:53

or my Tech at Winston Powell Five.

10:56

Thank you and let's get back to

10:58

the episode. I'll see you did some

11:00

amazing things over there. What were they?

11:02

So when I was there I scored

11:05

two perfect tens which was amazing and

11:07

I really love that it was out

11:09

of ten again. Obviously the code of

11:12

points has changed for a long time

11:14

now and even in my career I've

11:16

never in a league I've never been

11:18

able to get a perfect ten. So

11:21

to kind of have that to aim

11:23

for it really makes you kind of...

11:25

tune in on those finer details and

11:27

really make your routines as perfect as

11:30

possible. Whereas in elite I think a

11:32

lot of the time you're almost trying

11:34

to get through your routine. Obviously like

11:37

as clean as possible but a wobbling

11:39

your beam routine wouldn't be a big

11:41

deal. Whereas in college a wobble is

11:43

a massive deal. It's the difference between

11:46

like a 99 and a 10. So

11:48

you're really trying to aim for perfection

11:50

and I do think that in a

11:52

sport like gymnastics like gymnastics, those perfect

11:55

routines. are that next level so it's

11:57

really cool to have that to strive

11:59

for in college so to get those

12:02

and they were both on being which

12:04

has always been my favorite and best

12:06

piece so that was amazing and I

12:08

kind of well I had this signature

12:11

dismount. which I could do this skill

12:13

which was like a sideways free cartwheel

12:15

on the beam. I think I just

12:17

played around with it once when I

12:20

had like an injured wrist or something

12:22

and then when you get to college

12:24

obviously they want to know what skills

12:27

you can do so I just sort

12:29

of told them oh I can do

12:31

this but it was kind of a

12:33

bit risky to just having your routine

12:36

and then coming in for my second

12:38

year one of the coaches thought of

12:40

the dismount so going the sideways free

12:42

cartwheel into a dismount off the side.

12:45

sounded crazy but you kind of have

12:47

a bit of time in pre-season where

12:49

you can play with skills like that

12:52

and I managed to do it and

12:54

it was honestly the scariest skill to

12:56

learn at first because the margin for

12:58

error and I definitely had a few

13:01

fun falls on it but yeah once

13:03

I got it down it was actually

13:05

really consistent and yeah it was really

13:07

cool to have a kind of standout

13:10

skill and no one else has really

13:12

done it since so yeah really cool

13:14

to have a bit of a signature

13:17

skill. Yeah, so I think those were

13:19

probably two really defining things. And then

13:21

I also became the NCAA balance beam

13:23

champion in my senior year, which was

13:26

a really great way to finish off

13:28

my career there. Yeah, absolutely. It sounds

13:30

like it. I mean, having sort of

13:32

how would that work? So I've got

13:35

two sort of questions about how does

13:37

that work? First off. How does the

13:39

perfect 10 work? Like what gets you

13:42

to a 10? Is it, because I

13:44

know in, there has been a competition

13:46

very recently, it's like an online competition

13:48

where you start with an execution score

13:51

of eight rather than 10, and then

13:53

you've got difficulty up to 2.0, and

13:55

then that's how they added up to

13:57

a 10. How does it work in,

14:00

well, how, or how did it, I

14:02

don't know if it's changed or anything,

14:04

how did it work? How did it

14:07

work? So yeah, it's still out of

14:09

10 now and yeah, you have to

14:11

have certain requirements and obviously skill level

14:13

to start from a 10, but most

14:16

of the D1 colleges, everyone will have

14:18

10 start values. And then, I mean,

14:20

I don't think this is controversial to

14:22

say because I see it a lot

14:25

online, but I would say now the

14:27

judging's gone a bit crazy and like

14:29

there's been a lot of tens, a

14:32

lot of the records are a bit

14:34

skewed, but you really had to be

14:36

perfect and you almost always had to

14:38

be the last person. So six people

14:41

in the team compete on each piece.

14:43

You kind of had to be the

14:45

last person in your team on that

14:47

piece to get a 10 because it

14:50

really had to build up. So say

14:52

if like the first few people had

14:54

done really good routines and the person

14:57

before you got like a 9.5 or

14:59

a 99.75 and that really set you

15:01

up to get a 10, but you

15:03

still had to be perfect. It wasn't

15:06

a given by any means. So during

15:08

my four years in college, I saw

15:10

two of my teammates get a 10

15:12

and then door. one other girl from

15:15

Stanford get a 10 and then I

15:17

got my two 10. So we'll start

15:19

that's five tens in four years that

15:22

I witnessed. Whereas now I've seen like

15:24

three in one meet. So it's definitely

15:26

changed a bit now. And I do

15:28

think it was really exciting when it

15:31

was like, oh my God, the person

15:33

that started the rotation got a 9-9

15:35

and it's like, can the last person

15:37

get 10? Because obviously you tend to

15:40

put your last person up, sorry, your

15:42

best person up last. Yeah, so, and

15:44

you kind of, if you were that

15:47

last person and you knew you were

15:49

capable of a 10, if your other

15:51

teammates had done their jobs, you obviously

15:53

had that pressure on you, but you're

15:56

also really grateful because you were like,

15:58

okay, they'd set me up, like it's

16:00

now or never kind of thing. So

16:02

yeah, it was a team effort in

16:05

a way to get to that 10

16:07

as well. Yeah, I mean, that's pressured

16:09

that you're putting on yourself though, like,

16:12

like I don't think many people would

16:14

be like many people would be like,

16:16

Yeah it is pressure you're putting on

16:18

yourself but also it's valid. Like it

16:21

is a pretty incredible achievement to get

16:23

that because people people will obviously lead

16:25

gymnastics is different and I think people

16:27

confuse the two because of NCAA probably

16:30

but people often talk about the perfect

16:32

ten in gymnastics in elite gymnastics that's

16:34

just not going to happen like ever

16:37

but in that it literally does have

16:39

to be perfect to get a ten

16:41

and that is obviously that's what you're

16:43

striving for in training, but considering you

16:46

got two in your entire four-year career,

16:48

that says a lot, especially considering how

16:50

good of a gymnast you were. Thank

16:52

you. If you got back in the

16:55

gym, maybe you'd still be here. I

16:57

don't know. I did try my dismount

16:59

a few months ago and managed to

17:02

do it, but I don't think I'd

17:04

be getting present right now. That is

17:06

impressive, yeah. Was the coaching like over

17:08

there? Obviously, it's two very different countries.

17:11

Well similar in some senses different in

17:13

others, but like I feel like the

17:15

coaching styles will be very different in

17:17

America to in Britain What sort of

17:20

were those differences? Yeah, I would say

17:22

I was really lucky all through my

17:24

gymnastics career my club career that I

17:27

had great coaches and they were always

17:29

Definitely about coaching the person. It wasn't

17:31

like gymnastics gymnastics like they took us

17:33

on trips abroad, trips to the theatre,

17:36

we always did a massive Christmas show

17:38

at my gym so they very much

17:40

were about that fun aspect as well.

17:42

I say the major difference is obviously

17:45

once you get to college you've got

17:47

most of your skills and you're all

17:49

18 and above so everyone's adults so

17:52

there's a bit more kind of individualised

17:54

sort of treatment but also it's weird

17:56

to say it like that because it's

17:58

also all about the team so Some

18:01

days in training which would be the

18:03

main differences would be like they do

18:05

like games or points and just try

18:07

to make it a bit more fun

18:10

so So for example, they might say,

18:12

okay, you're in partners today and in

18:14

your partners, you need to score 30

18:17

points on each piece. To score 30

18:19

points, you have to do two routines

18:21

each that have less than 0.05, 0.5

18:23

deductions. and just stuff like that or

18:26

like a stick could be five points

18:28

and they just try to make it

18:30

a bit more fun but also where

18:32

you're always working together whereas obviously an

18:35

elite it's a lot more individualised so

18:37

yeah those were the main differences.

18:39

Fair enough yeah. You mentioned the

18:41

fact that you had to sort

18:43

of build up to a 10

18:45

and I'm still very confused about

18:48

that honestly because My thought is

18:50

always, you sort of get what

18:52

you do, sort of, like, the

18:54

execution that you get is based

18:56

on what you do, not based

18:58

on any other performances, so how

19:00

does that work? Well, I'd say,

19:02

usually you would just have your,

19:05

what they'd call your anchor, your

19:07

sixth person, would be your best

19:09

person on that piece. So it's

19:11

usually like those, that was the

19:13

person most capable of a 10.

19:15

And so if everyone else had

19:17

maybe not done their best routines

19:19

and your highest score so far

19:21

was like a 99, sorry, was

19:24

like a 9.75, then to then

19:26

leap to attend the judges just

19:28

probably wouldn't because it's kind of

19:30

like your team needed to be

19:32

worthy of the 10. And I

19:34

mean, if they really did stand

19:36

out and do this amazing routine,

19:38

the judges would award it. But

19:40

I would say you'd still... probably

19:43

see a 995 or a 9975.

19:45

I really feel like that buildup

19:47

and then like the audience would

19:49

be getting into it and being

19:51

like, oh my God, and just

19:53

that atmosphere, you know, the judges

19:55

are human beings and they would

19:57

just be swayed by that like

20:00

that natural buildup and like if

20:02

the person before you's got a

20:04

995 or 9975 and then that

20:06

last routine is clearly better than

20:08

they have to go to that

20:10

10. It's just that kind of

20:12

like build up and that yeah

20:14

it just tended to be like

20:16

that and that was kind of

20:19

like the the unspoken strategy. Sure

20:21

that makes sense. Yeah like it's

20:23

sort of unintentional bias than rather

20:25

than anything else that makes. written

20:27

like the first person can't get

20:29

a 10 that's not a rule

20:31

by any means but you just

20:33

you would have you'd have someone

20:36

really good in your first position

20:38

because you want to have a

20:40

great start but you'd usually have

20:42

your best person last sure and

20:44

then that would just be the

20:46

nap kind of build-up cool yeah

20:48

you also mentioned beam quite heavily

20:50

that's as you've was your favorite

20:52

piece what inspired your unique style

20:55

on beam like what what was

20:57

the reasoning behind it or?

20:59

Well I would say actually I

21:01

was lucky again that my club

21:03

coaches and my college coaches in

21:05

general they always try to play

21:07

to people's strengths but my club

21:09

coaches were kind of into that

21:11

as well and not just on

21:13

beam on all the pieces and

21:15

like on bars in my elite

21:17

career I did an Adler squat

21:19

dislow which obviously not many women

21:21

do and Yeah, like my club

21:23

coaches, they call it like a

21:25

flower in the routine, something that

21:27

stands out for the judges. Yeah,

21:30

something different. So I was kind

21:32

of always tuned to that slightly,

21:34

then obviously when you go to

21:36

college, because everyone's out of 10

21:38

and can get a 10, you

21:40

really have to stand out and

21:42

it's really about the performance. So

21:44

yeah, they kind of pushed that

21:46

to that next level. And then

21:48

in terms of beam, I would

21:50

say... Just with the dismount I

21:52

just had a knack for it.

21:54

I would say before that I

21:56

don't think I was doing anything

21:58

that was too different I think

22:00

I've always had a natural performance

22:02

quality and I've always enjoyed that

22:04

aspect of gymnastics. When we went

22:06

to college or when I went

22:08

to college our head coach was

22:10

always about the performance and she

22:12

instilled in all of us that

22:14

we should smile and beams should

22:16

be a performance as well. It's

22:19

not it's not this serious scary

22:21

thing and that actually kind of

22:23

smiling and enjoying the dance part

22:25

and showing off to the audience

22:27

and the judges would also... make

22:29

the routine look better and you'll

22:31

actually enjoy it and be a

22:33

bit more relaxed yourself. So I

22:35

definitely took that on board and

22:37

then brought that back with me

22:39

to my second stage in my

22:41

elite career. Yeah, well, that was

22:43

my next question actually. What was

22:45

it like transitioning back from the

22:47

NCAA to elite gymnastics? Yeah, it

22:49

was really interesting. I think in

22:51

college you have a season from

22:53

January to April and you compete.

22:55

every weekend. So you're competing so

22:57

much in such a condensed period

22:59

that I really felt like I

23:01

became such a good competitor. And

23:03

so it was really nice to

23:05

be able to take that into

23:07

my elite career and competitions became

23:10

just a lot less scary and

23:12

daunting because you were just doing

23:14

them so often. And the audiences

23:16

in America were just, there's like

23:18

10,000 people every single weekend. So

23:20

then when you're coming to even

23:22

like a British Championships and there's...

23:24

2,000 people. It's not, you know,

23:26

it's not that big a deal

23:28

or it's just everything's kind of

23:30

put into perspective a bit more.

23:32

Yeah, so I think that was

23:34

really, really helpful. And then I

23:36

think the other things that were

23:38

helpful was just trying to have

23:40

fun with it a bit more.

23:42

I would say I was already

23:44

naturally a fun person and did

23:46

try to enjoy competing before college,

23:48

but college almost just gave you

23:50

that permission and just brought it

23:52

out of me even more. Sounds

23:54

about right. Um, because obviously you'll

23:56

get better at the thing that

23:59

you do over and over again,

24:01

the thing that you repeat. And

24:03

if you're competing multiple weekends... in

24:05

a row for like months on

24:07

end, you're going to get pretty

24:09

confident and get pretty good at

24:11

that. So you're going to be

24:13

able to have that confidence and

24:15

like for me competing in front

24:17

of 2,000 people that's a lot.

24:19

But moving from 10,000 to 2,000

24:21

does seem like a hell of

24:23

a lot less and it's a

24:25

lot less daunting I guess. So

24:27

yeah I do see where you're

24:29

coming from with that. and then

24:31

eventually you went on to compete

24:33

for Jamaica. What was that transition

24:35

like how you know what what

24:37

actually happened behind the scenes almost?

24:39

Yeah I'll come to that but

24:41

I just wanted to add something

24:43

to the previous question. As well

24:45

as competing every single weekend say

24:47

if you made a mistake then

24:50

you get to correct it immediately

24:52

the next weekend as well so

24:54

I think that helps because if

24:56

you do make a mistaken elite

24:58

and your next competition is like

25:00

months later then it's you can

25:02

like build it up and it

25:04

can just become yeah just a

25:06

bit more of a thing, but

25:08

if you've got five days until

25:10

your next competition, then it's like

25:12

you work on that thing in

25:14

the gym and then you get

25:16

to correct it almost immediately. And

25:18

as well as that during the

25:20

weeks, we'd have like sports psychologists

25:22

and we'd have loads of meetings,

25:24

we'd watch videos of everyone's routines

25:26

and you really were analyzing it

25:28

and like thinking how can we

25:30

improve? You know, I would never

25:32

have sat down and watched my

25:34

whole competition after an elite competition.

25:36

So yeah, that was a really

25:39

different aspect to it. And in

25:41

terms of the transition to compete

25:43

for Jamaica, so it was interesting.

25:45

So there was already a couple

25:47

of gymnasts competing for Jamaica, so

25:49

two sisters that were based in

25:51

America. And so it got in

25:53

touch with them and their mum

25:55

was the vice president of Jamaican

25:57

Jamaics at the time and helped

25:59

me through the process of... getting

26:01

my citizenship and competing but where

26:03

it was a very small governing

26:05

body with not many rules and

26:07

or no rules really and kind

26:09

of compared to Great Britain where

26:11

there's been you know established for

26:13

a long time there's very like

26:15

black and white of what you

26:17

do and don't do and what

26:19

you need to do. Yeah it

26:21

was a bit messy at times

26:23

but I think that's kind of

26:25

how it would be when you're

26:27

just trying to grow something from

26:30

the ground up. and obviously there's

26:32

just there's not much money behind

26:34

it so kind of that self-funding

26:36

aspect was a bit different and

26:38

then I was also working to

26:40

support my gymnastics whereas with Great

26:42

Britain obviously there's funding so there

26:44

was definitely differences but I think

26:46

it was perfect for me at

26:48

that time being an adult and

26:50

not having the rules that came

26:52

with being on the Great Britain

26:54

team kind of dictating my schedule

26:56

and stuff like that. Yeah, it

26:58

was hard at times to not

27:00

have the support of an established

27:02

governing body like British gymnastics, but

27:04

it also suited me to have

27:06

the freedom. Yeah, that's what I

27:08

was going to say. Just a

27:10

bit more. You can be more

27:12

like individual with it. You can

27:14

just sort of do. what's sort

27:16

of right for you rather than

27:19

having to be dictated by the

27:21

rules of the national governing body

27:23

but also at the same time

27:25

it is quite hard without the

27:27

support of said national governing body

27:29

so you take the good with

27:31

the bad really yeah exactly swings

27:33

around about and now kind of

27:35

like doing the jobs that I'm

27:37

doing like on the board and

27:39

on the Panam Commission it's been

27:41

really good to have both of

27:43

those experiences because I can bring

27:45

you know a diverse voice now

27:47

and having had both of those

27:49

experiences I can kind of yeah

27:51

pick the good things from both

27:53

and Help to move the sport

27:55

along you were a result for

27:57

London 2012 and then you eventually

27:59

became an Olympian in Tokyo 2020

28:01

but in 2021 obviously what were

28:03

those two experiences like? Yeah so

28:05

for London it was hard because

28:07

that would have been what my

28:10

career had really built up to

28:12

and it was difficult I would

28:14

say the process was interesting they

28:16

at the time they tried to

28:18

make it objective, obviously we're in

28:20

a subjective sport but the people

28:22

in charge at the time said

28:24

okay we're going to do it

28:26

on a point system so like

28:28

where you rank in each trial

28:30

is worth points and on paper

28:32

it sounded great but then as

28:34

the process went along they added

28:36

things to it and then it

28:38

wasn't maybe fully as fair as

28:40

it looked on paper initially. And

28:42

yeah, I mean, me and the

28:44

couple of reserves we put in

28:46

appeals, so that was kind of

28:48

like a bit of a messy

28:50

process. But in the end, I

28:52

think it was a good experience

28:54

for me in the end. I

28:56

actually got to be part of

28:59

a show that was opening every

29:01

single one of the events in

29:03

the O2 for the Olympics. So

29:05

I just kind of, that was

29:07

my silver lining. I had an

29:09

amazing time doing that and I

29:11

was just having fun and soaking

29:13

up the Olympic atmosphere. And I

29:15

actually ended up fracturing my wrist

29:17

during the Olympic camp, like the

29:19

build-up just before. So in my

29:21

head, I kind of thought, okay,

29:23

obviously being reserved was really hard

29:25

and sad to be that close.

29:27

But then I would have broken

29:29

my wrist regardless because it was

29:31

just an impact fracture. It wasn't

29:33

like an accident. So it was

29:35

just inevitable that that would have

29:37

happened. So it's kind of like

29:39

I would have then, if I'd

29:41

been on the team, I probably

29:43

would have had to give my

29:45

kit away to the reserve and

29:47

that would have maybe even been

29:50

harder. So I think, yeah, it

29:52

was really hard to be that

29:54

close, but I do think everything

29:56

happens for a reason and I

29:58

end up having a really great

30:00

time doing those shows. And then

30:02

actually for Rio, I competed for

30:04

Jamaica in 2015 at the World's,

30:06

qualified for the Olympic Testifier, but

30:08

Jamaica and as I mentioned, the

30:10

sisters that competed and the mum

30:12

was the vice president of Jamaican

30:14

gymnastics, they made a decision to

30:16

select one of them to go

30:18

instead of me, even though I'd

30:20

qualified to the highest. So that

30:22

was really hard to then be

30:24

that close again. So for me

30:26

to then go on to Tokyo

30:28

I think it was a really

30:30

difficult decision to start the process

30:32

because I thought I'm putting myself

30:34

in that vulnerable position to maybe

30:36

quote unquote fail again and you

30:39

know yeah that's hard so it

30:41

was difficult to start that process.

30:43

Part of what spurred me on

30:45

was that they changed the rules

30:47

in FIG that if you qualify

30:49

at the World Championships. you qualify

30:51

your name instead of your country

30:53

so that your country then can't

30:55

replace you. So I thought, okay,

30:57

this time it is actually all

30:59

down to selectors. If I go,

31:01

it's like I've done it and

31:03

no one could take it away.

31:05

So that was kind of what

31:07

motivated me to go for the

31:09

Tokyo Olympics. So then to finally

31:11

do it at that 2019 World

31:13

Championships was really a moment that

31:15

I'll always be proud of myself

31:17

for. Yeah, very nice. And how

31:19

was the actual... games because obviously

31:21

it was very different to the

31:23

normal games no crowd and had

31:25

to social distance and everything so

31:27

what what was that like yeah

31:30

again I am an I'm an

31:32

optimist I always look for like

31:34

positives and situation my coach and

31:36

I have a really great bond

31:38

and so we were and he's

31:40

an optimistic person as well so

31:42

we just went out there and

31:44

we made the best of it

31:46

and we had a lot of

31:48

fun we every day we went

31:50

out in the village and just

31:52

like took advantage of the facilities

31:54

went shopping every day in the

31:56

shop for all the match that

31:58

way too much in that shop.

32:00

and then when I was there

32:02

I ended up tearing my ACL

32:04

so that was obviously terrible but

32:06

I've come that far in three

32:08

Olympic cycles plus an extra year

32:10

I was like I'm becoming an

32:12

Olympian no matter what so to

32:14

have my coach by my side

32:16

who'd been on that journey with

32:19

me through all those cycles was

32:21

still really special and yeah I

32:23

think it's a unique experience that

32:25

kind of like no one can

32:27

ever really fully fully relate to

32:29

but yeah it's when I saw

32:31

Paris the next year it really

32:33

was quite emotional to then get

32:35

to see people celebrating with their

32:37

friends and families after their routines

32:39

and it was wasn't even the

32:41

ACL part that upset me it

32:43

was just being able to have

32:45

your friends and family there even

32:47

though I only did like three

32:49

skills on the bars if I

32:51

could have had my mom and

32:53

my siblings and my husband there

32:55

that would have just really meant

32:57

the world to me and I

32:59

know it would all for them

33:01

especially my mom who's obviously been

33:03

there since day one so I

33:05

think that's probably the hardest thing

33:07

I didn't but at the time

33:10

during Tokyo I didn't kind of

33:12

like think about it too much

33:14

because like what's the point in

33:16

trying to get yourself down when

33:18

you're at the Olympics but watching

33:20

Paris that was definitely hard. Yeah

33:22

I get that like when you're

33:24

in the moment and you You're

33:26

there to soak up the experience

33:28

and have a good time really

33:30

with it. Like you're at the

33:32

biggest competition in the world for

33:34

four years. So you may as

33:36

well make the most of it.

33:38

But yeah, it's that sort of,

33:40

when you're looking at it retrospectively,

33:42

you sort of see it from

33:44

another angle like, yeah, it would

33:46

have been really nice to have

33:48

this or that or whatever else

33:50

it is. But Again,

33:53

you sort of take what you're

33:55

given and you've still managed to

33:57

have that experience, you've still managed

33:59

to become an Olympian and you've

34:01

managed to... be able to say

34:03

that. So, start a huge achievement,

34:05

especially after three cycles of trying.

34:07

So, yeah. And I think like,

34:09

because every cycle I was so

34:11

close, it wasn't like, okay, like,

34:13

I wasn't even reserve or I

34:15

didn't even qualify, like, to be

34:17

that close. So then go to

34:19

the Olympics and be kind of

34:21

woe-as-me, even with the injury. Like,

34:24

I was never going to let

34:26

myself do that. I was like,

34:28

this is the dream that I've

34:30

attempted to reach for so many

34:32

years. I'm going to enjoy it

34:34

and being around team Jamaica too

34:36

that was a really good vibe

34:38

like such a fun group. Obviously

34:40

they're really serious and they're an

34:42

amazing group of athletes and they

34:44

win medals but they're just fun

34:46

with it too and that's nothing

34:48

against Great Britain or any other

34:50

country but I think like even

34:52

other countries seem to recognise that

34:54

in Jamaica and people always want

34:56

the Jamaican t-shirts and pins. It

34:58

just felt really cool to be

35:00

a part of Jamaica at the

35:02

Olympics and the Olympics and Yeah,

35:05

I felt really proud to represent

35:07

and also the feedback from Jamaicans

35:09

like the Jamaican public even though

35:11

again I only did a few

35:13

skills on the bars I just

35:15

felt so supported and so many

35:17

people were telling me what an

35:19

amazing achievement it was and yeah

35:21

it just it did feel like

35:23

okay I did do this and

35:25

it is valid even though it's

35:27

not how I jumped it would

35:29

be. Yeah and training for so

35:31

many years would have been tough

35:33

so like like from yeah all

35:35

the way from 2012 to 2021

35:37

must have been quite tough. How

35:39

did he cope with the not

35:41

just the physical but also the

35:43

mental demands of the sport for

35:46

so many years? Yeah I think

35:48

I was in college obviously that

35:50

was like a nice shift in

35:52

mentality there where it just became

35:54

more fun. and then after I

35:56

graduated in 2016 and that was

35:58

also after all the Rio stuff

36:00

I did actually retire two years

36:02

and had no intentions of coming

36:04

back and then it was just

36:06

a random week in yeah around

36:08

2018 where loads of people just

36:10

kept saying to me are we

36:12

going to go back to gymnastics

36:14

and this one I've been off

36:16

for a year and a half

36:18

at this point I was like

36:20

why is everyone asking me this

36:22

and then I was like I

36:24

haven't even thought about it and

36:27

I was like maybe I should

36:29

think about it got started to

36:31

think about it was actually what

36:33

is stopping me and apart from

36:35

that fear of failure of maybe

36:37

not achieving my dreams again. There

36:39

wasn't really anything stopping me like

36:41

physically or mentally with the sports.

36:43

So yeah, I emailed my coaches

36:45

and they were like supportive as

36:47

well. So I wasn't even living

36:49

near my gym at that time,

36:51

but moved and yeah, made it

36:53

happen. So I think that was

36:55

what got me through it. And

36:57

then in that last chapter from

36:59

sort of 2018 to 2021, just

37:01

having a really good support network

37:03

with my coaches, my family, my

37:05

now husband, just people that believed

37:08

in me and I really thought

37:10

this is my last shot at

37:12

that point so I got quite

37:14

into doing vision boards and stuff

37:16

and who knows if it was

37:18

a vision board but it works

37:20

out to some degree so yeah.

37:22

You've mentioned how it's been really

37:24

good and you've had a support

37:26

network and all that sort of

37:28

stuff but obviously gymnastics always isn't

37:30

always... a positive, like isn't always

37:32

positive and there are tough days

37:34

and you will often doubt yourself.

37:36

How do you get through those

37:38

times? Yeah, yes, I think it's

37:40

the toughest sport in the world.

37:42

My college coach, she would always

37:44

say, it's so tough because you

37:46

can't pass the ball, you are

37:49

up there alone and I think

37:51

sports where their individual are that

37:53

much harder for that reason. on

37:55

those tough days. I'm trying to

37:57

think. It's really interesting because when

37:59

you said that I was straight

38:01

away went back to kind of

38:03

the teenage years. So I would

38:05

say those were the tough days

38:07

and you know. or hormonal and

38:09

I think there was a really

38:11

solid group of us at Heathrow

38:13

I trained that were all around

38:15

the same age and a really

38:17

talented group and it tended to

38:19

be when one person was having

38:21

a bad day everyone did have

38:23

a bit of a bad day

38:25

so I think it was it's

38:28

just trying to like lean on

38:30

those people and then be someone

38:32

that can pick you up so

38:34

I think again going to America

38:36

you learn that and you kind

38:38

of have the seniors or the

38:40

juniors and the seniors who are

38:42

the older people on the team

38:44

at college. They've learned by that

38:46

point they're in their third and

38:48

fourth years that it is their

38:50

responsibility to pick the team up.

38:52

So there would be times when

38:54

at college everyone is having a

38:56

bad day and sometimes the coaches

38:58

would do it but it would

39:00

often be those older people on

39:02

the team that would gather everyone

39:04

up and be like look guys

39:06

come on we've got three days

39:09

till our next competition, no one's

39:11

having a good day and just

39:13

give you that kind of pet

39:15

talk. And so then I definitely

39:17

then took that into my elite

39:19

career after and going back to

39:21

Heathrow again as an adult it

39:23

is easier because you just don't

39:25

have those kind of irrational thoughts

39:27

and everything's a bit more in

39:29

perspective. But I was able to

39:31

hopefully pass on some of that

39:33

wisdom to some of the younger

39:35

girls I was training with at

39:37

Heathrow and be that person that

39:39

was positive and was yeah just

39:41

bringing those good vibes to training.

39:43

So I think yeah. coming back

39:45

from college I was able to

39:47

just come in with this new

39:50

outlook and like every go counts

39:52

rather than like why are you

39:54

wasting time or if your coach

39:56

has annoyed you there's no point

39:58

then wasting your goes because it's

40:00

actually affecting you more than it's

40:02

affecting them that as a teenager

40:04

it's hard to learn that lesson

40:06

yeah definitely yeah I think what

40:08

most people when they drop out

40:10

of school will do it around

40:12

then because there's just so much

40:14

like changing in your life your

40:16

body is changing and everything's yeah

40:18

it's not like it's not stable

40:20

having to then, like, refocus and

40:22

get back to that. And, push

40:24

your body to the limits on

40:26

a pretty much daily basis is,

40:28

it's gonna either cause some issues

40:31

or just, you're just gonna not

40:33

wanna do it anymore. And it's

40:35

gonna, it's hard to then, like,

40:37

refocus and get back to that.

40:39

Get back to that point in

40:41

your life when you were enjoying

40:43

it. almost and just sort of

40:45

realizing why like or remembering why

40:47

you're doing it in the first

40:49

place so I think that it's

40:51

quite it's quite hard to do

40:53

especially when you're a teenager when

40:55

you're still a kid basically I

40:57

think that I mean the time

40:59

for women's but sorry women becoming

41:01

seniors at 16 seems a little

41:03

odd to me honestly because they

41:05

are still teenagers they're not they're

41:07

not even 18 yet and it's

41:09

like how have they expected to

41:12

compete at the highest level of

41:14

16 years of age like Abby

41:16

Martin was 16 and went to

41:18

the Olympics and it's like yes

41:20

half of the team half of

41:22

what the team would have been

41:24

were injured and that's probably why

41:26

half the reason like

41:28

the team was so young,

41:30

but it still seems like

41:32

a lot of pressure to

41:34

put a teenager under. Yeah,

41:36

yeah, I do feel like

41:38

as well, like you said,

41:41

16 to 18, even that

41:43

transition, like you've hopefully gone

41:45

through puberty by 18, you

41:47

finished school, so there's just,

41:49

yeah, that a lot less

41:51

pressure, and I do think...

41:53

I know it's been a

41:55

conversation for a long time.

41:57

don't know exactly what FIG

41:59

stands on it but yeah

42:01

I think I'm probably pro

42:03

18 for women to be

42:05

seniors. Yeah I mean evening

42:07

out makes some sort of

42:09

sense I like I understand

42:12

why because women mature earlier

42:14

than men do but it

42:16

still seems too young like

42:18

even then but yeah being

42:20

a senior now like it

42:22

does sort of put a

42:24

lot of things in perspective.

42:26

and you do sort of

42:28

calm yourself down of it

42:30

almost like you just need

42:32

to I feel like either

42:34

you take it too seriously

42:36

or not seriously enough there's

42:38

no like middle ground when

42:40

you're like growing up with

42:42

the sport for me it

42:45

was always too seriously like

42:47

every go would have to

42:49

be perfect or I'd have

42:51

to make some sort of

42:53

improvement every day and if

42:55

I didn't I had failed

42:57

that day like some days

42:59

I was just bad and

43:01

it's hard sometimes hard to

43:03

put that sort of in

43:05

perspective. Obviously you were you

43:07

were older when you went

43:09

into NCAA gymnastics and then

43:11

you went back to elite

43:13

gymnastics. What do you think

43:16

either gymnastics community as such

43:18

could learn from each other?

43:20

Oh gosh. So I think...

43:23

I'm just trying to think if elite

43:26

can learn, sorry if college can learn

43:28

anything from elite. A lot of lessons

43:30

that elite can learn from college, but

43:32

I don't know if there's many that

43:35

college can learn from elite, to be

43:37

honest. So I'll just go with what

43:39

elite can learn from college. That would

43:41

definitely be like the sports presentation side

43:44

of things, the audience friendly nature of

43:46

it, involved with the audience. I think

43:48

the elite scoring system is just so

43:50

complicated, even if they keep it the

43:53

same. can it be explained and broken

43:55

down better? I think the team aspect

43:57

is really really fun. obviously I know

44:00

it's an individual sport but like maybe

44:02

having more competitions where it's a bit

44:04

more teamy because just makes it more

44:06

fun and you're just constantly like you

44:09

obviously you're rooting for your friends and

44:11

your teammates but when it comes to

44:13

making a team above even like your

44:15

best friend obviously you want to beat

44:18

them and it's just like so individual

44:20

so I think that aspect could be

44:22

brought in I would love it to

44:24

go to the perfect ten but I

44:27

think that probably where the routines are

44:29

that much longer and there's a much

44:31

longer and there's a few more sort

44:33

of like nuances to it probably isn't

44:36

realistic but I do think again for

44:38

the audience perfect hen is just way

44:40

more exciting and then in terms of

44:43

like the day-to-day of college and I've

44:45

tried to kind of like bring these

44:47

in my role at British gymnastics just

44:49

we'd have to track our sleep and

44:52

our injuries and there was a lot

44:54

of encouragement to open up and to

44:56

say that how are you feeling, you

44:58

know, whether that was mentally physically even

45:01

with your academics and they just wanted

45:03

to support you like so wholeheartedly and

45:05

as a person and they also call

45:07

you a student athlete and it was

45:10

emphasised a lot at UCLA that like

45:12

your academics were more important you have

45:14

to have a certain grade point average

45:16

to compete on your team and I

45:19

don't think that can be fully brought

45:21

into elite but I think I

45:23

think it's difficult when kids are

45:26

missing a lot of school and

45:28

gymnastics is like the most important

45:30

thing in their lives and it's

45:32

put on such a huge pedestal

45:34

because you just never know what's

45:37

going to happen like that whether

45:39

they fall in love fall out

45:41

of love with the sport or

45:43

where they get injured and then

45:45

it's like their whole life's over

45:47

whereas if they've got other things

45:50

and yeah it wasn't. kind of

45:52

too strict in that like gymnastics

45:54

was put so highly above everything

45:56

else. I think I think we're

45:58

getting there in in that and

46:00

obviously British mastic support different rules

46:03

in about missing school and stuff

46:05

like that. Yeah, but I would

46:07

definitely say the main things would

46:09

just be like the sports presentation

46:11

and the fun. And I would

46:14

love people in the general public

46:16

to want to go to gymnastics

46:18

in the way that they want

46:20

to go to football games, you

46:22

know. You mentioned the presentation of

46:24

it and getting people to understand

46:27

the sport a bit more. As

46:29

a presenter yourself, what do you

46:31

think could be done about that?

46:33

Like obviously you said the perfect

46:35

ten and is quite easy with

46:37

that because they know what you're

46:40

aiming for. They know what the

46:42

score, like the biggest score possible

46:44

is, and in gymnastics, in elite

46:46

gymnastics, it's kind of impossible to

46:48

know what the biggest score could

46:51

be. Like you always think that

46:53

one could be a cap and

46:55

then someone beats it. So what

46:57

do you think could be done

46:59

to sort of, maybe not educate

47:01

the audience, but sort of, well

47:04

actually yes, educate the audience? So

47:06

I think, I do think British

47:08

gymnastics at the British Championships does

47:10

do quite a good job. I

47:12

mean there's like t-shirt cannons and

47:14

obviously they do have the sort

47:17

of fun walkouts and stuff like

47:19

that. But to take it to

47:21

that next level. even with like

47:23

some of the stars and like

47:25

the GB National Squad, what they

47:28

did in college was you'd like

47:30

pre-record some fun videos which might

47:32

play on the big screen during

47:34

the touch warm-ups. So that was

47:36

fun for the audience to watch

47:38

and get to see the personalities

47:41

of the gymnast come out, which

47:43

is quite fun. Or there'd even

47:45

be like little quizzes and then

47:47

surprises for them to win. Like

47:49

they literally win TVs and stuff.

47:51

Wow. And then other stuff could

47:54

be like if someone sticks a

47:56

dismount like just having it, graphics

47:58

that were like stick, just fun

48:00

things like that, or like specific

48:02

music that plays, or if we

48:05

did say like, obviously it depends

48:07

because different pieces kind of score

48:09

differently as well, which is hard.

48:11

But you could even have a

48:13

phone app that was like the

48:15

audience gets to judge and like

48:18

they can just put in their

48:20

score and then when the school

48:22

comes up it could be like,

48:24

oh this person got it right.

48:26

Just to try and like have

48:28

some audience interaction. I'm trying to

48:31

think, those are just like ideas

48:33

off the top of my head.

48:35

But yeah, and then even at

48:37

the British Championships when Luke did

48:39

his triple back, I was announcing

48:42

one year and I just made

48:44

a big deal out of it

48:46

and highlighted to the audience that

48:48

it was a triple back. And

48:50

then a few people, audience members

48:52

and British mastic staff were like,

48:55

I'm really glad that you did

48:57

that because I wouldn't have noticed

48:59

the difference between a double some

49:01

soul and a triple. But obviously...

49:03

me knowing how hard that is

49:05

I wanted the audience to know

49:08

that he was doing something that

49:10

good. So yeah I think having

49:12

announces and people like that that

49:14

are knowledgeable and that are willing

49:16

to kind of big up the

49:19

gymnast and the exciting skills and

49:21

yeah just try to build that

49:23

story and build that excitement for

49:25

the audience can really help as

49:27

well. Yeah because because when you're

49:29

a gymnast it's it's kind of

49:32

obvious when someone does like a

49:34

big skill and it's obvious what's

49:36

harder and what's easier? but when

49:38

you're just a generic spectator you

49:40

just you don't sort of realize

49:42

what's harder what's easier and as

49:45

a gymnast you can't like sort

49:47

of put yourself in the audience

49:49

shoes and as an audience member

49:51

you can't put yourself in the

49:53

gymnast shoes so it there is

49:56

a bit of a divide there

49:58

in terms of more just knowledge

50:00

almost so yeah I think that

50:02

could be um but also at

50:04

the same time it's quite anish,

50:06

it's quite hard to know exactly

50:09

how to do that. But I

50:11

think those, those ideas were quite,

50:13

quite fun ideas to incorporate it

50:15

because it's all well and good

50:17

trying to educate people but if

50:19

they're not gonna listen then it

50:22

doesn't matter because they're not gonna

50:24

it's not gonna sink in so

50:26

yeah yeah and you also mentioned

50:28

a bit earlier now about basically

50:30

gymnastics not being everything in your

50:33

life and I think British gymnastics

50:35

is starting to sort of everything

50:37

in your life and I think

50:39

British gymnastics is starting to sort

50:41

of do some things about that.

50:43

It was mentioned quite heavily in

50:46

meeting, I don't know what you

50:48

would call it, it was kind

50:50

of like a speech, by David

50:52

Hart, who basically spoke to all

50:54

of the junior senior senior development

50:56

and senior men's women and trampolining

50:59

athletes. So, like basically outlining like

51:01

sort of the plans for the

51:03

next cycle slash two cycles. And

51:05

he did put a big emphasis

51:07

on us being just gymnasts, like

51:10

being actual people and having social

51:12

lives and other things going on

51:14

in our lives rather than just

51:16

being specifically gymnasts. So I think

51:18

there is some amount of emphasis

51:20

still being put on it. Obviously

51:23

it's a long way to go

51:25

and words are different to actions

51:27

and it's hard to know exactly

51:29

what's going to happen. I think

51:31

there maybe will be some sort

51:33

of progress put forward and I

51:36

will try and get him on

51:38

as well so we know exactly

51:40

what that might look like as

51:42

well. I did email him and

51:44

he has actually now responded so

51:46

we'll see. We'll see. Can't promise

51:49

it'll be soon. What about improvements

51:51

to gymnastics as a whole is

51:53

there any sort of ongoing issues

51:55

as such? in sort of gymnastics

51:57

as a whole, like a... or

52:00

do you think it's more just

52:02

individual national governing bodies

52:04

that would need to

52:06

alter what they're doing?

52:08

Yeah it is a really

52:10

difficult one because it almost

52:12

comes back to the

52:14

individual and even the club

52:17

because you've got to find

52:19

what that balance is for

52:21

you and obviously to get to

52:23

the highest level you need

52:25

to be really dedicated it does

52:27

need to be the priority. but at

52:29

the same time you I do still think

52:32

school needs to be a priority,

52:34

social life needs to be a

52:36

priority because you need to have

52:38

your balance right and for your

52:40

own mental health and sanity and

52:42

just for your own like personal

52:44

development as well. It is really

52:46

really hard and like for one person

52:49

they might be able to miss school

52:51

and really just be so dedicated to

52:53

their gymnastics and that works for them

52:55

perfectly. but for other people I know

52:57

personally for me like I enjoyed to

52:59

have a social life and two I

53:02

was like on different sports teams

53:04

for my school and did like public

53:06

speaking for my school and stuff like

53:08

that and I also really enjoyed that

53:10

so it's like being able to explore

53:12

different things that you're interested

53:15

in and then I also mentioned a

53:17

bit earlier but our gymnastics club was

53:19

really good at like taking us on like

53:21

fun trips and making sure that we

53:23

also just saw other

53:25

sides to the world and life. And

53:27

I always look back and I've got

53:29

so many fond memories with my,

53:31

not only my teammates from my

53:33

club, but also my coaches, which

53:35

are outside the gym, which I

53:37

think is really important and builds

53:40

stronger bonds and more trust.

53:42

But the hard part for coaches

53:44

and establishments like clubs and

53:47

governing bodies is that I do

53:49

think it's individual and it's just

53:51

makes it such a gray area.

53:53

and it's going to be hard

53:55

for anyone to get right. But

53:57

I think where we can start or

53:59

where. coaches and clubs can start

54:01

is by really just trying to get

54:04

to know your gymnast. And another

54:06

thing that we did do in

54:08

college was as soon as you get

54:10

there within like your first few weeks

54:12

you do this really in-depth personality test

54:15

which is called the anneogram and

54:17

then you get a number from

54:19

one to nine and each one

54:21

is like a specific type of

54:23

personality and then once the new people

54:25

have done theirs so the... incoming freshmen,

54:28

you'll do like a massive team meeting

54:30

where you kind of like break down each personality

54:32

type and there's like an expert on the

54:34

anyogram that would come in and really like

54:36

explain it and you get a massive booklet

54:38

that would talk to you in depth about

54:40

your number and you do like breakout groups

54:42

so I was an eight so me and

54:45

the other eight would split off and just

54:47

discuss it because even like though we were

54:49

all eight there was almost like a spectrum

54:51

within in each number. So we'd say, okay, I

54:53

relate to that part. And yeah, and so

54:55

then I think for the coaches, obviously in

54:58

college you need to get to know people really

55:00

quickly. So if the coaches they immediately

55:02

could realize, okay, their eight, they like

55:04

this, this, and this. But whereas the

55:06

sevens, they don't like it to be as direct.

55:08

They're more if they're having a bad

55:11

day, they want to be hugged and

55:13

they want to be loved. Whereas another

55:15

personality type might be like. I want

55:17

to be kind of like told I'm

55:19

not good enough to have another call

55:22

and that might work for them. So

55:24

yeah, I think that's a good starting

55:26

point and can almost be a bit

55:28

of a shortcut to get to know

55:30

someone. And yeah, and hopefully within

55:33

that you can also find

55:35

the balance where someone else might

55:37

need an extra day off or

55:39

more focus on their outside interests,

55:41

whereas someone else might need those

55:43

extra hours in the gym. Yeah,

55:45

it's a mine feel because it

55:48

is individual and personal, but I

55:50

do think that could be a

55:52

good starting point for coaches because

55:54

I think coaches are in a space at

55:56

the moment where they almost don't know

55:59

how to coach. of everything that's sort

56:01

of gone on. So I think that

56:03

could be a good starting point. Yeah,

56:05

I mean, yeah, ultimately this sport is

56:07

about you as an individual, about you

56:10

learning what your body's good at, like

56:12

what sort of skills you're good at,

56:14

and then also how you need to

56:16

recover, how you need to train, how

56:19

many hours you actually need to do

56:21

to be able to improve. Like, you,

56:23

because it's sort of like a belt

56:25

curve in terms of... how many hours

56:28

you do and how much improvement you

56:30

make because eventually if you're doing too

56:32

many hours you'll just drop off because

56:35

you'll get injured and you'll have other

56:37

issues or you'll have mental blocks so

56:39

you need to find the sort of

56:41

right amount of hours for you and

56:44

you need to find the right sort

56:46

of reward methods and yeah there's so

56:48

much to think about and it's all

56:50

very individual so it's impossible to sort

56:53

of tailor an entire nation. nation's way

56:55

of training and coaching to everyone in

56:57

said nation when it's such an individual

56:59

sport or any sport is individual in

57:02

that sense but because it's gymnastics and

57:04

because some people will be like some

57:06

people will specialize on in men's gymnastics

57:08

of the very least like three specific

57:11

pieces and then someone else could specialize

57:13

on the other three pieces and they

57:15

They don't match literally at all. It's

57:17

almost like they're doing two different sports.

57:20

And yet they've got one like one

57:22

program to cover it all. Yeah, one.

57:24

Yeah, and actually you're making me think

57:26

of a couple of other things. At

57:29

college, they actually. for the most part

57:31

when I was there they would give

57:33

us the day off before the competition

57:35

and if it was a home meet

57:38

you just had the day off and

57:40

then if you were travelling it would

57:42

be a travel day and then I

57:44

started to realise that that was really

57:47

good my body like I would feel

57:49

so fresh on competition day. Whereas some

57:51

of the gym, some of my other

57:53

teammates for them that wasn't good so

57:56

they'd usually go to a workout gym

57:58

and just like do a bit of

58:00

cardio or a bit of like strength

58:02

training or something like that and that

58:05

worked for them. But because I realized

58:07

that then when I went back to

58:09

my elite career I was able to

58:12

tell my coaches like I actually thrive

58:14

if I have a day off before

58:16

the competition and then luckily for me

58:18

when I was competing for Jamaica I

58:21

was able to just do that and

58:23

just say. like these are the days

58:25

I want to train when we're out

58:27

of the world championships and I'm going

58:30

to take the day off all the

58:32

competition and if that didn't suit the

58:34

other for making gymnasts obviously they just

58:36

did their own thing too but obviously

58:39

with Great Britain you can't really do

58:41

that I think they're starting to be

58:43

a bit more flexible and I know

58:45

I'm good friends with Becky Downey and

58:48

she's obviously a lot older and she

58:50

knows herself and her body in mind

58:52

and so they've been listening to her

58:54

and some of her and some of

58:57

her needs and I think Yeah, that

58:59

was something that I learned along the

59:01

way and like you said, everyone's different.

59:03

We both said that we, you need

59:06

to be like a well-rounded person, you

59:08

need to have a life outside of

59:10

gymnastics. So what are some of your

59:12

hobbies? What do you do outside of,

59:15

well, now your job at British gymnastics?

59:17

Outside of work, nothing too crazy, but

59:19

obviously love to go on holidays. Still

59:21

love getting a massage. That's definitely the

59:24

athlete in me. Shopping. Shopping. Shopping. I'm

59:26

playing with my cat, love it crazy,

59:28

I'm trying to think. And I do

59:30

a little bit now, I also like

59:33

to try like different sports here and

59:35

there, so I've done a bit of

59:37

kickbox in, a bit of Jiu-Jitsu, I

59:39

do some aerial hoop here and there.

59:42

So yeah, I'd just like to try,

59:44

obviously gymnastics, giving you such a good

59:46

foundation of athleticism, so it's really fun

59:49

to try new sports and see where

59:51

I'm out with those. Yeah, so those

59:53

are my hobbies. Nice. So,

59:56

well, back to gymnastics, I suppose.

59:58

looking back on your career, everything

1:00:00

you've achieved, what is the moment

1:00:02

that makes you most proud? I

1:00:04

think it probably would have to

1:00:07

be the 2019 World Championships that

1:00:09

was the qualification for the Olympics.

1:00:11

As I mentioned earlier, obviously after

1:00:13

coming so close. sad and it

1:00:15

can be after like when you

1:00:18

have that disappointment knowing that it

1:00:20

was all down to me I

1:00:22

kind of knew that I was

1:00:24

capable sort of score wise and

1:00:26

where I had to rank but

1:00:29

that almost made it harder you

1:00:31

know if you're an underdog it's

1:00:33

like you've got nothing to lose

1:00:35

but where I knew that I

1:00:38

could get into that Olympic qualification

1:00:40

ranking I naturally put a lot

1:00:42

of pressure on myself and I

1:00:44

remember the night before we were

1:00:46

in Stuttgart and my now husband

1:00:49

came the night before the competition

1:00:51

and he was like, how are

1:00:53

you feeling? And I just started

1:00:55

crying. That nervous. And yeah, it

1:00:57

just meant a lot to me

1:01:00

and I think, yeah, like I

1:01:02

said, I think it was almost

1:01:04

more nerve-wracking because I knew I

1:01:06

could do it. So it was

1:01:09

like if I did have a

1:01:11

bad competition the next day, I

1:01:13

would have felt like I'd let

1:01:15

myself down. Yeah, so I think

1:01:17

being able to do that and

1:01:20

knowing how nervous I wasn't to

1:01:22

cope with those nerves. pull off

1:01:24

a good competition and to effectively

1:01:26

make my dream come true in

1:01:28

that moment, I'll always be proud

1:01:31

of myself for that. Very nice,

1:01:33

yeah. Um, because I know that

1:01:35

was also the year that, um,

1:01:37

Joe Fraser won parallel bars as

1:01:40

well. So, yeah, very, very good

1:01:42

year, very good year for the

1:01:44

world jumps out here. Yeah, and

1:01:46

stick got, um, in Germany in

1:01:48

general, I think they put on

1:01:51

a really good competition. The crowd

1:01:53

is really really loud and invested

1:01:55

and yeah they're quite. good at

1:01:57

that sports presentation time like we

1:01:59

spoke about. So yeah it was

1:02:02

a really fun environment. The year

1:02:04

before the World Championships had been

1:02:06

in Doha and there was maybe

1:02:08

like a hundred people in like

1:02:11

a I don't know 10,000-seaterino and

1:02:13

just like tumbleweed rolling across. Yeah.

1:02:15

You've been a role model to

1:02:17

so many. gymnasts over the years

1:02:19

and you've achieved so much in

1:02:22

the sport. What is one piece

1:02:24

of advice that you would give

1:02:26

young athletes who aspire to be

1:02:28

where you've gone? Oh, one piece

1:02:30

of advice. I think it would

1:02:33

probably be to follow your heart.

1:02:35

Sounds maybe a little bit cliche.

1:02:37

In terms of I think growing

1:02:39

up I thought there was this

1:02:42

set plan and that I was

1:02:44

going to stop at 18. But

1:02:46

I think now we're seeing so

1:02:48

many more gymnasts go on for

1:02:50

longer, especially on the women's side.

1:02:53

I think men's has always been

1:02:55

a little bit older than women's

1:02:57

anyway, but we're seeing women in

1:02:59

their 30s at the highest level

1:03:01

in the sports. So I think

1:03:04

following your heart in that sense

1:03:06

and you never know where it

1:03:08

will take you. And I think

1:03:10

if you are enjoying it, you're

1:03:12

passionate about. in the country or

1:03:15

even in your gym, but if

1:03:17

you're enjoying it and you're passionate

1:03:19

about it, then you never know

1:03:21

what it's going to lead to.

1:03:24

I think I've had so many

1:03:26

random opportunities that have come from

1:03:28

gymnastics and they've all been not

1:03:30

planned, but it's opened so many

1:03:32

doors and I think that's just

1:03:35

been, because I've been putting my

1:03:37

heart into it and just being

1:03:39

persevering and just chasing my dreams

1:03:41

and then, yeah, you just never

1:03:43

know what's going to come from

1:03:46

it. So, yeah, follow your heart.

1:03:48

with that. like you definitely don't

1:03:50

have to be the best in

1:03:52

your gym because I mean having

1:03:55

those role models so close to

1:03:57

you as well is huge like

1:03:59

I've been training with well in

1:04:01

the same club as Joe Fraser

1:04:03

for well since 2013 I believe

1:04:06

so coming up on 12 years

1:04:08

and like having that like constant,

1:04:10

well he's always been there and

1:04:12

like having that role model there

1:04:14

to sort of push towards and

1:04:17

knowing where you want to go

1:04:19

is quite cool. And I mean,

1:04:21

yeah, I'm not the best in

1:04:23

my gym. And I would never,

1:04:26

like it's quite hard to compare

1:04:28

yourself to other gymnasts as well

1:04:30

because again, it's very individual and

1:04:32

your strengths is someone else's weakness

1:04:34

and your, someone else's weakness and

1:04:37

your weakness is weakness, someone else's

1:04:39

weakness and your weakness, So it's

1:04:41

quite hard to compare yourself anyway,

1:04:43

and it's all based on performances

1:04:45

as well. And you might have

1:04:48

a bad performance when someone else

1:04:50

is a good one, and then

1:04:52

you might beat them in a

1:04:54

different competition. So it's quite hard

1:04:57

to measure yourself up regardless. So

1:04:59

always comparing yourself to other people

1:05:01

isn't a great way of going

1:05:03

about it regardless. So yeah, always

1:05:05

having that sort of... either role

1:05:08

model or something that's a push

1:05:10

you is very helpful as well.

1:05:12

So I don't I definitely don't

1:05:14

think it's bad to be not

1:05:16

the best person in your gym.

1:05:19

I think it's actively quite helpful.

1:05:21

It's quite beneficial if you've got

1:05:23

the right mindset for it. Yeah,

1:05:25

I totally agree. Again, at the

1:05:27

time you don't, but at the

1:05:30

time when I was growing up

1:05:32

in in in the sport, I

1:05:34

didn't realize or I definitely realized,

1:05:36

but I didn't probably realize how

1:05:39

good it was for me that

1:05:41

we had such a strong group

1:05:43

of gymnasts. our club. There were

1:05:45

six of us that were in

1:05:47

the senior national squad at one

1:05:50

point just from our club. So

1:05:52

that was obviously an unbelievable group.

1:05:54

And I think, like you said,

1:05:56

we all had different strengths and

1:05:58

weaknesses. And my closest in age

1:06:01

and teammate, like she, her strengths

1:06:03

were completely different from mine. And

1:06:05

it just kind of spurred us

1:06:07

on to me to him. She

1:06:10

was always really strong on vault

1:06:12

and that was my weakness. So

1:06:14

it always just kind of pushed

1:06:16

me to work that much harder.

1:06:18

on my weaknesses like you said

1:06:21

and yeah I think I think

1:06:23

the phrases comparison is the thief

1:06:25

of joy so it's very true

1:06:27

and so I think when people

1:06:29

are doing well even if it's

1:06:32

something you're not good at like

1:06:34

cheer them on it's going to

1:06:36

make you feel better than putting

1:06:38

yourself down and then the other

1:06:41

quote I'm full of quote today

1:06:43

they used to use a lot

1:06:45

on my college team was iron

1:06:47

sharpens iron which is a really

1:06:49

good one and I think that

1:06:52

was definitely applicable to my training

1:06:54

group at my club as well.

1:06:56

We had one girl and she

1:06:58

not to put her down because

1:07:00

I'm about to compliment her after

1:07:03

but she was probably the least

1:07:05

talented but she was the hardest

1:07:07

worker. She would have her handguards

1:07:09

on first. She was always doing

1:07:12

the extra reps and I always

1:07:14

when I look back I always

1:07:16

feel so grateful for her because

1:07:18

she just pushed all of us

1:07:20

to work harder. I think when

1:07:23

you are naturally talented at times

1:07:25

you can sort of rest on

1:07:27

your talent. So to have someone

1:07:29

like that that's constantly grafting was

1:07:31

really amazing. So again, like I

1:07:34

look back and at the time

1:07:36

didn't realize how lucky I was

1:07:38

to be surrounded by this amazing

1:07:40

group and it was definitely that

1:07:43

iron sharpens iron concept. Yeah, absolutely.

1:07:45

And I think that's a that's

1:07:47

a good way to end it.

1:07:49

But one question before we finish.

1:07:51

Before we finish. Now you've been

1:07:54

on and now you've had a

1:07:56

chance to experience what it's like

1:07:58

to be on this side of

1:08:00

the interview. Who do you think

1:08:02

would be another good guest that

1:08:05

I could have on to the

1:08:07

podcast. Oh so many people. I

1:08:09

think someone that you could have

1:08:11

that would be amazing would be

1:08:13

Ellie Black. Right, yeah. From Canada.

1:08:16

I think she is like the

1:08:18

people's champion of gymnastics. She is

1:08:20

an incredible gymnast obviously. had her

1:08:22

fair share of injuries but I

1:08:25

think one thing that Ellie really

1:08:27

brings to the sport is just

1:08:29

such a positive attitude and impact

1:08:31

and yeah I just yeah I

1:08:33

personally think she's an amazing gymnast

1:08:36

but maybe even more of an

1:08:38

amazing person so I think you

1:08:40

should try to get any black.

1:08:42

I'll do my best. See if

1:08:44

I'm big time enough for that.

1:08:47

I believe in you. All right,

1:08:49

well, thank you. And thank you

1:08:51

for coming on to the Game

1:08:53

Gymnastics podcast. Thank you to everyone

1:08:56

for listening. Be sure to follow

1:08:58

review the show if you can.

1:09:00

And I will catch you in

1:09:02

the next one. Peace.