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But,

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a,

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b,

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b,

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b.

1:41

geek bodies! We're

1:44

back at it to have

1:46

some fun talking

1:49

about all stuff

1:51

going on in the

1:53

world of geek demos

1:56

certainly we had

1:58

a big breaking

2:00

news happening today with Sadie Sink in

2:02

Spider-Man 4. Who is she playing? We'll

2:04

talk about all of that here on

2:07

the show as well. We talk about

2:09

the new trailers. We have some Superman

2:11

w-b news that's a little shaky. So

2:13

we'll have to conversation about that and

2:16

get into our spoiler review for episode

2:18

three of Daredevil Born again. But first,

2:20

let's introduce ourselves with people maybe discovering

2:22

the geek buddies and we find new

2:24

people every week. So let's it. I

2:27

am John Roca. I am Michael Vogel,

2:29

writer and producer of animated TV shows

2:31

and movies. And this is Shannon McClung.

2:33

I'm an animation writer and a television

2:35

actor where you can see me right

2:38

now, at least until tomorrow, on the

2:40

latest episode of the pit, there's a

2:42

new episode of the pit tomorrow. And

2:44

if you have the world's largest magnifying

2:46

glass or a very big TV, you

2:49

can see me in a new commercial

2:51

for progressive. How about your, never mind?

2:53

All right, I'll, you know, we'll figure,

2:55

anything else. Go on! I feel like

2:58

you're not on your mic again, but

3:00

that's me. Anyway, all right, really? Yeah,

3:02

yeah, let's jump into things. So thank

3:04

you very much for your introductions. We

3:06

are the geek buddies. We're excited to

3:09

dive into this stuff, but like we're

3:11

gonna jump off the bat right now.

3:13

I guess, yeah, we'll do this. This

3:15

is it. Sadie's sake. This broke this

3:17

morning from Boris Kit over Ed deadline

3:20

with productions at start later this start

3:22

later this year on the next installment.

3:24

looks to a founder new co-star who

3:26

is quote no stranger to popular I.B.

3:28

Hello Sadie Sink is set to join

3:31

the sequel here from Sony Pictures or

3:33

Marvel Studios. Destiny Daniel Craven is still

3:35

directing with Amy Pascal and Fagi producing.

3:37

As for who Sink will be playing

3:40

the prevailing theory is that she might

3:42

be Gene Gray. I know that Jeff

3:44

Snyder broke that on our hot mic

3:46

and on his newsletter, but of course

3:48

other people are speculating already that she

3:51

could be MJ that she could be

3:53

a black cat, that she could be

3:55

even fire star, which would be an

3:57

interesting situation. But Michael, I go to

3:59

you first. A, do you like this

4:02

cast? And B, where's your head spinning

4:04

of who she could be playing? I

4:06

do like this casting for Gwen Stacey.

4:08

Oh Gwen Stacey. In your blog? Gwen

4:10

Stacey. Okay. Yes, as in Bryce Dallas

4:13

Howard and Emma Stone, the other two

4:15

redheads who both played Gwen Stacey. I

4:17

don't know what color, uh, Rachel, and

4:19

Bryce Dallas, Howard, his hair is right

4:22

now, but yes, go ahead, sorry, sorry.

4:24

Well, canonically, according to her photos, it's

4:26

red. Yeah, look, the, hey, yes, I

4:28

think she's great. So I think casting

4:30

her in any of these roles would

4:33

be awesome, but, let's just go through

4:35

the list here the list here. It's

4:37

like we have an MJ. I know

4:39

she's got red hair, but we have

4:41

an MJ in this universe. Like we

4:44

have a character who is Peter's MJ,

4:46

who he currently said goodbye to and

4:48

has forgotten about him at the end

4:50

of No Way Home. So in No

4:52

Way Home, they had conversed, oh, this

4:55

is your MJ, oh yeah, my MJ,

4:57

like that's who MJ is. So adding

4:59

another Mary Jane Watson. to the story.

5:01

Even though her name's a little bit

5:04

different, they changed it, I think that

5:06

just seems silly and a little bit

5:08

confusing. Gene Gray, yes, she was definitely

5:10

in the running for Gene Gray. There

5:12

was definitely talks about her being Gene

5:15

Gray. I think she would have made

5:17

a great Gene Gray. We have been

5:19

talking about mutants getting introduced in other

5:21

movies since Storm was absolutely for sure

5:23

going to be introduced in Wakanda forever.

5:26

I think the X-Men are coming, when

5:28

the X-Men are coming, they're not going

5:30

to sprinkle them in here. And if

5:32

Gene Gray were to show up in

5:34

a Spider-Man movie, I don't think she's

5:37

showing up in some co-star level role.

5:39

So I don't think you all of

5:41

a sudden have Gene Gray show up.

5:43

Firestar, look, I grew up on Spider-Man

5:46

and his amazing friends. When last we

5:48

left Peter Parker he had to say

5:50

goodbye to all of his friends including

5:52

the girl that he loved, he is

5:54

now on his own figuring things out.

5:57

It makes sense that he would have

5:59

a new person that comes into his

6:01

life, that he rescues or finds in

6:03

some way, and this person becomes a

6:05

love interest of him, creating a love

6:08

triangle, which what is the classic Spider-Man

6:10

love triangle? Peter Parker MJ and Gwen

6:12

Stacey. So that combined with the fact

6:14

that every Gwen Stacey in a Spider-Man

6:16

movie was a redhead in real life

6:19

and then they died her hair blonde

6:21

leads me to believe that this is

6:23

probably Gwen Stacey. That's some good. The

6:25

some interesting detective work from Detective Volular.

6:28

Your thoughts on this. Do you agree

6:30

with Michael or do you think your

6:32

mind a little more open to see

6:34

where she might be cast as? Well,

6:36

I mean, it's hard to separate her

6:39

from the Gene Gray role because of

6:41

all of the talk and all of

6:43

the rumors that had been building up

6:45

to this point. And if Gene Gray

6:47

were going to be introduced in a

6:50

Spider-Man movie, like, I don't know what

6:52

that movie is, but I'm certainly, certainly

6:54

interested. I mean, would Sadie Sink be

6:56

a great Gwen Stacey? Absolutely. I mean,

6:58

just look at her work. in Stranger

7:01

Things, look at how many things she

7:03

has on the horizon. This is clearly

7:05

a talented young performer who people want

7:07

to want to utilize to do the

7:10

best of her capabilities. Would she be

7:12

a great one, Stacey? Yeah. Do I

7:14

think her as Gene Gray is a

7:16

little bit more of an exciting choice?

7:18

Yes. And knowing how much that Spider-Man

7:21

movie has changed, like the last time

7:23

we heard about it, that we heard

7:25

from a fairly reliable source. Like, nopes,

7:27

it's gonna be Spider- the Hulk and

7:29

Punisher, which is such a kind of

7:32

random, like, let's grab this, let's grab

7:34

this. Who's to say that they haven't

7:36

traded that out for Dream Gray? I

7:38

mean, ultimately, none of us know. Will

7:40

she be great in either role? Yes.

7:43

But again, it's difficult for me to

7:45

separate her in Jean Gray just because

7:47

of how much I've already kind of

7:49

associated there with it in my head.

7:52

Yeah. First of all, I like the

7:54

casting. Sadie's a really up and coming,

7:56

strong actress. She's about to be on,

7:58

she's about to be in another play

8:00

on stage to show what she can

8:03

do. I think she has a musical

8:05

that's coming out, post-apocalyptic musical on Hulu

8:07

that's coming out. So like, this is

8:09

a woman of many talents and a

8:11

growing, and she's also has a growing

8:14

social media presence, like a very strong

8:16

voice. They're on social media. So there's

8:18

a lot of boxes. that Sadie Sink

8:20

checks overall because this is a new

8:22

world. This isn't when actions are coming

8:25

up 20 years ago. This is a

8:27

different world now. You know, being having

8:29

multiple revenue streams, being a part of

8:31

all these things. It's an important thing

8:34

in selling yourself, especially a young age,

8:36

to these companies that want to use

8:38

you in multiple films. I hear you

8:40

about Gwen Stacey. I wonder where they

8:42

would go with that. To me, I

8:45

hit with the Spider-Man film as rumor

8:47

to be hitting between the two Avengers

8:49

movies. So is this a ground-based Spider-Man

8:51

film or is this a film that's

8:53

gonna start ground-based and go to Battle

8:56

World? Where are we going? This could

8:58

be an MJ from another universe. And

9:00

if we're getting Tony Stark coming back,

9:02

or Robert Downey Jr. coming back as

9:04

Dr. Doom, I don't think anything could

9:07

be more confusing than that. So if

9:09

you can overcome that by coming in

9:11

with Sadie Sink, as MJ as MJ.

9:13

That could be interesting. But Michael, you

9:15

make a good point on this idea

9:18

of, well, he's going to, you know,

9:20

MJ's not going to remember him anymore

9:22

and seeing him spend two hours trying

9:24

to get her to fall in love

9:27

with him again, like Peter Quill did

9:29

with the other Gamora, I don't think

9:31

would be an interesting film. What's more

9:33

interesting is you bring in a new

9:35

love interest, possibly he's in college now,

9:38

I think. So this could work in

9:40

some interesting ways, and she could still

9:42

be Gene Gray. if they're going to

9:44

introduce them step by step throughout, you

9:46

know, the rumors are that X-Men is

9:49

coming out after the second Avengers film,

9:51

the Secret Wars film, quickly afterwards. So

9:53

you would want to see them at

9:55

some point if they're going... to be

9:57

introduced that quickly after secret wars. Would

10:00

secret wars be the introduction or would

10:02

it be a slow kind of leaking

10:04

introduction to where they become a team

10:06

by the end? I don't know. But

10:09

either way, I like this. I don't

10:11

see the Firestar thing. I think I'm

10:13

in your camp with that Michael. I

10:15

don't see the black cat thing. Gwen

10:17

Stacey is the possibility and Gene Gray.

10:20

Those are the two that I fall

10:22

into, but an alternate universe MJ. Could

10:24

be interesting if they made it work.

10:26

Why are you so, you seem so

10:28

against this possibility? It's not that I'm

10:31

again, it's not that I'm again, I

10:33

look, I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm happy,

10:35

she's in the movie, if all the

10:37

sudden the trailer comes out and she

10:39

pops up and says, hi, my name

10:42

is Jean, I'm not gonna be pissed

10:44

off about it. It's just sort of

10:46

like, like, it's more of like what

10:48

happens on Twitter, like, this is the

10:51

new, Tom Cruise is coming in as

10:53

Iron man and like this and like

10:55

this and like this and like this

10:57

and like this and like this and

10:59

like this and like, It's like Occam's

11:02

Razor the casting edition. Like Occam's Razor,

11:04

the simplest answer is usually the right

11:06

one. So is it, we're gonna bring

11:08

Firestar in, it's an MJ from an

11:10

alternate universe, we're gonna slowly introduce the

11:13

X-Men, and this is where Gene Gray

11:15

pops up, or are we going to

11:17

build the classic Spider-Man love triangle, she

11:19

doesn't remember who the hell he is?

11:21

That's what makes it what makes it

11:24

interesting to your point of what you're

11:26

saying is All Peter Parker really wants

11:28

is to have his friends back. He

11:30

made this spell. It is what it

11:33

is. He went there at the very

11:35

end. He saw MJ the cut on

11:37

MJ's head. He was like, fuck, her

11:39

life is better off without me in

11:41

it. So he's going to be living

11:44

his life. He's going to be living

11:46

his life. He's going to be doing

11:48

his life. He's going to be doing

11:50

his things. 90% of chance he still

11:52

checks on MJ. He still checks on

11:55

MJ. at the Daily Bugle. So now

11:57

all of a sudden, he's got this

11:59

girl, and then what happens if the

12:01

spell breaks? What happens if this goes

12:03

on? Like, you could have an entire

12:06

movie where he falls in love with

12:08

Sadie Sink, and then either at the

12:10

end of the movie or post-battle world,

12:12

or once we get past Secret Wars,

12:15

the spell is somehow lifted, MJ remembers,

12:17

and now Peter Parker's got two women

12:19

in his life, oh fuck what is

12:21

he gonna do? Permutations of the MJ

12:23

Gwen Stacey, Peter Parker Love Triangle have

12:26

been through so many iterations that I

12:28

am more than confident that they can

12:30

crack it. But I mean, I think

12:32

that's the, that is the most obvious.

12:34

So yes, you're right. I'm not being

12:37

grumpy about the other options. I just,

12:39

I know I sound like I'm being

12:41

grumpy, but no, it's, it's more like.

12:43

Whenever anybody starts going on these, oh,

12:45

they're going to introduce the X-Men in

12:48

these movies, like we have literally been

12:50

hearing that Marvel was going to slowly

12:52

introduce the X-Men for like a decade,

12:54

and they haven't done it. Like, we

12:57

just, the internet sort of gets rolling

12:59

with these rumors, and you just, the

13:01

internet sort of gets rolling with these

13:03

rumors, and you just watch them take

13:05

on a life of their own, and

13:08

then when the movie comes out, or

13:10

the trailer comes out, it was going

13:12

to happen. Well, they have been slowly

13:14

introducing the X-Men, just maybe not the

13:16

X-Men that we're going to see in

13:19

the Mutant Saga. Like we saw Patrick

13:21

Stewart come back for Multiverse of Madness.

13:23

We saw Kelsey grammar come back for

13:25

the end of the Marvels. So they

13:27

had been doing it. Maybe just not

13:30

in the way that we expected. Well,

13:32

fair, but those are by, aside from,

13:34

aside from Kamala Khan. who is the

13:36

only person in the MCU who has

13:39

been specifically called a mutin, what they

13:41

have been doing. And I think this

13:43

sort of gets to the Sadie Sink

13:45

thing of it all as well. They

13:47

have not been introducing a new young

13:50

cast of characters who are mutants. What

13:52

they have very specifically done, and I

13:54

think this is why I don't think

13:56

this is gonna be Gene Gray. very

13:58

specifically been taking people from the 20th

14:01

century Fox universe yes and peppering them

14:03

here and there in the multiverse so

14:05

what that leads me to believe and

14:07

what a lot of the rumors out

14:09

there are is it's not that we're

14:12

going to get to secret wars and

14:14

this new young cast of X-Men are

14:16

going to help the Avengers save the

14:18

day I think we're going to see

14:21

dead pool I think we're going to

14:23

see Deadpool I think we're going to

14:25

see beast I think we're going to

14:27

see magneto I think we're going to

14:29

see magneto second big send off after

14:32

their lovely send off at the end

14:34

of Deadpool and Wolverine. And then when

14:36

we get to the sort of soft

14:38

reboot post secret wars, we're going to

14:40

be living in an MCU where there

14:43

are mutants and then we're going to

14:45

meet. all of this young cast that

14:47

are being rumored. Then we're gonna meet,

14:49

it's no longer Kelsey grammar, it's no

14:51

longer Patrick Stewart, it's gonna be these

14:54

younger care. That's what I, that's what

14:56

I, that's what my money's on. Um,

14:58

because otherwise you start to get, oh,

15:00

here's a new gene gray, but here's

15:03

Kelsey grammar, but here's this, it's like,

15:05

it gets very messy. We don't know

15:07

that they are doing that. That is

15:09

what is rumored. Okay. All right. Well,

15:11

real quick. Last week, Jeff broke the

15:14

possibility that Jesse Clements could be playing

15:16

beast. Love it. Love it. Yes. I

15:18

think that is brilliant casting. Jesse Clements

15:20

could literally play anything and I'm pretty

15:22

much good with it. Yeah. I mean,

15:25

if Sadie Sink is Gene Gray and

15:27

Dickerson is Scott Summers and... Maybe whoever,

15:29

someone older is playing Storm and Plymouth's,

15:31

Plymouth's completely like the older brother, he's

15:33

kind of like the older brother beast,

15:36

right, kind of schooling them, training them,

15:38

so I like that idea as well.

15:40

So it's interesting, I just, you know,

15:42

you get kind of like, let's get

15:45

the casting going, let's get excited. Oh

15:47

yeah, I mean, it is, everyone just

15:49

wants, we have been wanting X-men since

15:51

before it was. possible for us to

15:53

have X-Men in the Marvel universe. Like

15:56

we all want it. I understand the

15:58

excitement. I understand the desire to want

16:00

to just like go to the movies

16:02

and be like, oh, there it is.

16:04

But yeah, I think we are in

16:07

for a. Multiversal collapse with the 20th

16:09

century Fox universe that Monica Rambo is

16:11

going to play a role in and

16:13

then we are going and the Illuminati

16:15

are apparently in the mix according to

16:18

Julius Ona as what the you know

16:20

originally they were going to be in

16:22

Brave New World and then we're going

16:24

to get our new X-Men after we

16:27

get Secret Wars. Yeah. Any final words

16:29

on this? No. I mean at first

16:31

I was just thinking do we want

16:33

to make her... Gwen Stacey knowing that

16:35

Tom Holland probably has a trilogy left

16:38

to Spider-Man movies and then he's right

16:40

he's gonna pass he's gonna pass the

16:42

web shooters on probably to Miles. It's

16:44

like I don't know just Gwen Stacey

16:46

exists in a world without Peter Parker

16:49

and it's like well spiderverse she becomes

16:51

Spider-Gwin and that you can certainly have

16:53

another web slinger out there. That's what

16:55

I was gonna ask is are they

16:57

low-key backdooring Spider-Gwen into this situation by

17:00

having her play Gwen Stacey, because I

17:02

don't know that Sadie Sink, as she

17:04

is on the ascendancy, is like, yeah,

17:06

let me play the love edges, it

17:09

gets her neck snapped. That sounds awesome.

17:11

You know, either, or let me play

17:13

Spider Gwen down the road. I know,

17:15

what's her face, voices it in the

17:17

Spider verse, Haley Steinfeld. It doesn't seem

17:20

like that's the route they're gonna go,

17:22

and she'd be... upset about that. I'm

17:24

not upset about anything. I'm not upset

17:26

about anything. I'm just saying this is

17:28

what I think. No, I don't know

17:31

that they were. I mean, you know,

17:33

there's there's only like, well, it'll be

17:35

interesting to see how big they go

17:37

in the spider world. Like, like, we

17:39

definitely, I think everybody would love to

17:42

see a live action Miles Morales in

17:44

the. I don't know that, or I

17:46

don't, or Sony's gonna go try and

17:48

do their own. But I think Spider

17:51

Gwen is, thanks to the Spiderverse movies,

17:53

thanks to Spidey and his amazing friends

17:55

on Disney Junior, like she's very popular.

17:57

So, and I think you make a

17:59

good point about Sadie Sink, maybe wanting,

18:02

you know, if she's gonna step into

18:04

the MCU, she wants a bigger role

18:06

than just Wednesday. So I think that

18:08

there's definitely possibilities there for sure. If

18:10

she's going to go blonde, go blonde,

18:13

go blonde, go blonde, go blonde, go

18:15

blonde for the big role for the

18:17

big role for the big role for

18:19

the big role for the big role

18:21

for the big role for the big

18:24

role. I like. All right, well, we'll

18:26

see what happens with that as it

18:28

goes on, but we're excited. This is

18:30

a good, good casting, good actress to bring

18:32

into this. And so it's going to be

18:34

a lot of fun to see what she

18:37

ends up being, and then we can deal

18:39

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Cancel any time. Terms apply. Let's

21:32

move on to the story. Do

21:34

you want me to pitch this

21:36

one up or set this one

21:38

up? Am I doing this one

21:40

as well? The Superman one? Shall

21:42

I do it? Yeah, okay, fine

21:44

out. Here it is. Let's talk

21:46

about this. There's a lot of...

21:48

reports coming out this week from

21:50

Puck News, talking about what's going

21:52

on with Warner Brothers. And of

21:54

course, right now, they're dealing with

21:56

a little bit of a not

21:59

great, but certainly not terrible opening

22:01

for Mickey 17. And Superman, there

22:03

have been some conflicting reports on

22:05

test screenings, some people liking them,

22:07

some people not liking it, some

22:09

people comparing it to. Captain America

22:11

First Avengers, and people saying it's

22:13

good, but it's not the best

22:15

of James Gunn. So there's a

22:17

lot of reports out there. But

22:19

this new report from Puck News

22:21

details the high expectations from Warner

22:23

Brothers for James Gunn's new Superman

22:25

movie. According to the report from

22:27

Puck, that's Matthew Bologna, that's Matthew

22:29

Bologna, that the movie is quote,

22:31

now taken an almost incalculable importance

22:33

to Warner about his discovery. If

22:35

Warner can't finally make the DC

22:37

franchise work, there is genuine, in

22:39

2019 and certainly Abdi and DeLuca

22:41

are on the chopping block block

22:43

according to this report possibly if

22:45

Superman doesn't do well and there's

22:47

two or three other films coming

22:49

out later on this year from

22:51

one of those including sinners from

22:53

Ryan Kugler that are there's rumors

22:55

that there's trouble behind the scenes

22:57

on those as well there's a

22:59

conversations being had about how much

23:01

is being spent on these movies

23:03

and even today a new report

23:05

came out that Bong Jun Ho

23:07

rejected the Warner Brothers cut for

23:09

his movie which was testing better

23:11

and forced them to put out

23:13

his cut of the movie which

23:15

is not doing quite as well

23:17

at the box office. So Shannon

23:19

you hear all this is any

23:22

of this surprising to you and

23:24

what do you think about this

23:26

if this film doesn't come off

23:28

are we looking at a Warner

23:30

Brothers fire sale and starting this

23:32

whole thing all over again? I

23:34

mean, that was something that we

23:36

had talked about way back when.

23:38

It's like, okay, you know, we're

23:40

getting this new big slate of

23:42

DC movies. It's a brand new

23:44

universe. But what if one of

23:46

them doesn't do well? The whole

23:48

idea that the first one out

23:50

the gate, there's so much. writing

23:52

on it that if it doesn't

23:54

perform and again I think Superman

23:56

is going to make money like

23:58

it's it's going to be the

24:00

level of hit that they needed

24:02

to be to potentially keep a

24:04

studio afloat you know I don't

24:06

know I'm not an economist when

24:08

you look at kind of the

24:10

history that we grew up in

24:12

like in the 80s. Studios going

24:14

out of business, that was something

24:16

you heard about in the 60s,

24:18

like how Cleopatra almost bankrupted a

24:20

studio. Now we've gotten into this

24:22

time that 20th century Fox, like

24:24

one of the great old studios,

24:26

got bought, like Disney bought it.

24:28

Like I never thought that was

24:30

gonna happen. And so the idea

24:32

that Warner Brothers is in such

24:34

a state that potentially like... Comcast,

24:36

who owns Universal, that they could

24:38

potentially be a suitor if things

24:40

don't, if they don't write the

24:42

ship. And you know, you hear

24:44

all these stories about Zazlov and

24:47

like the whole reason he was

24:49

brought in, I mean, or you

24:51

know, being the chairman of discovery,

24:53

he was trying to make it,

24:55

make them look attractive for a

24:57

sale and win slash if that

24:59

sale happens. he still gets to

25:01

be with discovery. He still gets

25:03

to still gets to head that

25:05

ship. It's so not fun, this

25:07

type of talk, because again, 20th

25:09

century Fox, has it gone away?

25:11

Kinda? I mean, is it still

25:13

out the 20th century studios? Yes,

25:15

but it's not. It's not the

25:17

studio that it once was. It

25:19

is now under that Disney umbrella.

25:21

And I think losing another studio,

25:23

especially a big historic studio like

25:25

Warner Brothers, which wouldn't go away

25:27

completely. Like that W.B. logo, it

25:29

would still exist, just in a

25:31

different way. It's really unfortunate because

25:33

again, there's just so much history

25:35

tied to it. You know, I

25:37

used to live in Burbank right

25:39

down the street from Warner Brothers.

25:41

I walked past there, I've worked

25:43

on multiple shows there. So knowing

25:45

that that might not exist in

25:47

the way that it's existed, it

25:49

is kind of a bummer. For

25:51

James Gunn, you want to talk

25:53

about pressure. Like there was already

25:55

pressure to get this thing right.

25:57

And now you add what as

25:59

you put Johnny from the article,

26:01

this incalculable risk or reward. But

26:03

this movie. has to work. And

26:05

the whole idea that maybe we'll

26:07

see this DC universe take off

26:10

knowing that, okay, we've got two

26:12

movies in production, one that's basically

26:14

done another in production, two that

26:16

are supposed to start shooting. So

26:18

we, of the things that they

26:20

announced, we haven't seen probably a

26:22

quarter of it yet. And to

26:24

know that it could potentially end

26:26

before it really get started, that's

26:28

a bummer. Hopefully it's a great

26:30

movie. Your thoughts on all this,

26:32

Michael? The biggest flaw in this

26:34

entire discussion is the idea that

26:36

if Superman doesn't work, the DC

26:38

universe has failed. Now I think

26:40

that is what Warner Brothers is

26:42

thinking. I do think that's what

26:44

Zazlop is thinking. I think that

26:46

everything that Shannon said about the

26:48

pressure that's on, gun and saffron

26:50

is true, but... The problem is

26:52

this idea that if Superman isn't

26:54

a billion dollar hit and everybody

26:56

thinks it's the greatest thing ever,

26:58

the DC universe has died. Warner

27:00

Brothers' problem is they don't have

27:02

the patience. And Marvel suffers a

27:04

little bit from this problem now,

27:06

but what Marvel did that made

27:08

it work is they stuck with,

27:10

like, it's hard to conceive of

27:12

now in the world that we

27:14

live in where every movie we

27:16

get excited and then we're disappointed

27:18

or whatever. Iron Man was great,

27:20

but Iron Man is a small

27:22

fucking movie. Yeah, Iron Man is

27:24

a small movie. It is, it's

27:26

a small movie with a. really

27:28

shitty third act battle that mostly

27:30

takes place in the dark. Thor

27:32

is not a great movie. I

27:35

love it. Chris Hemsworth was great

27:37

casting, but Thor was not the

27:39

greatest superhero movie we've ever seen.

27:41

And Captain America, which is probably

27:43

my favorite out of the three,

27:45

most people thought was real, real

27:47

cheesy. And the third act is

27:49

really kind of a mess. Like,

27:51

the first three movies out of

27:53

the gate for Marvel. Iron Man

27:55

was by far the biggest hit

27:57

and then people were excited about

27:59

this idea of the Avengers and

28:01

whatever but like when you look

28:03

back None of those movies not

28:05

Thor Captain American Iron Man did

28:07

not have the pressure on them.

28:09

What? I leave out Hulk. That's

28:11

part of the force. I'm leaving

28:13

out Hulk because it wasn't. Hulk

28:15

was universal. Hulk was universal. So

28:17

it was like yes, it is

28:19

tangentially a part of everything but

28:21

Given that everybody except well, no,

28:23

that's not true that we did

28:25

have the leader and live Tyler.

28:27

So yeah, sure, but like even

28:29

the Hulk like Do are any

28:31

of the four of those movies?

28:33

Iron man probably out of the

28:35

four you're gonna go. Well, that's

28:37

definitely like a great superhero movie,

28:39

but compared to some of the

28:41

superhero movies we've gotten since then

28:43

it's good. It's solid. But like

28:45

It's Superman comes out and it's

28:47

not great. The DC universe can

28:49

still work. Like you just, you

28:51

take your hits, you keep going,

28:53

you have to commit to it.

28:55

I would even go so, like,

28:58

I'm glad that we did not

29:00

go all the way into Zach

29:02

Snyder's. post-apocalyptic Batman with his little

29:04

hat on and this whole the

29:06

whole idea he had for his

29:08

Snyder verse but I do think

29:10

DC could have there's a universe

29:12

where they could have shifted without

29:14

saying we're starting over like yeah

29:16

right yeah now they overreacted after

29:18

man of steel as you say

29:20

overreacted out well they overreacted after

29:22

man of steel and said They

29:24

really, they didn't overreact after Man

29:26

of Steel, they just weren't patient.

29:28

They said, you know what? We

29:30

don't want to wait. Let's do

29:32

Batman versus Superman, and by the

29:34

way, let's introduce the rest of

29:36

the Justice League in there on

29:38

a hard drive. And then let's

29:40

get to the Justice League. And

29:42

so like they weren't patient. And

29:44

then when Batman versus Superman was

29:46

not what audiences, all y'all don't

29:48

come for me, what the box

29:50

office was not there that they

29:52

wanted it to be, they flipped

29:54

out, they, you know, like, and

29:56

then Joss Whedon, like you can

29:58

just look at how they were

30:00

not. patient and they didn't go,

30:02

okay, look, what do we let?

30:04

What works about this? And it

30:06

just then it went all over

30:08

the place and it got crazy.

30:10

And now it's like we're going

30:12

crazy before the movies even come

30:14

out. Like let Superman come out.

30:16

Let it be what it's going

30:18

to be. If people, if audiences

30:20

think that Superman is a little

30:23

bit too earnest. Adjust like you

30:25

make adjustments and all those Superman

30:27

is Superman you've got lanterns coming

30:29

out like you ostensibly have a

30:31

Batman movie coming out at some

30:33

point You've got Supergirl coming out

30:35

like let these things come out

30:37

and no like the the key

30:39

to building a universe is not

30:41

to go wow this audio This

30:43

movie didn't deliver. Let's sell the

30:45

studio The key to building a

30:47

universe is to let the universe

30:49

grow and and look to be

30:51

completely pragmatic about it that might

30:53

mean No, you don't get $300

30:55

million for your next three movies.

30:57

That might mean you gotta make

30:59

some shit work on HBO Max,

31:01

and you gotta do some smaller

31:03

movies. You gotta give me a

31:05

couple small wins to get to

31:07

your next big movie. So there

31:09

are like, you know. price tags

31:11

attached to failure, and you do

31:13

need to rethink things. But this

31:15

whole concept of all the pressure

31:17

on this one movie to keep

31:19

a studio, like Superman is the

31:21

best of all the superheroes, but

31:23

I don't know that he even

31:25

can handle the pressure of having

31:27

his one movie have to save

31:29

the entire studio of Warner Brothers.

31:31

Yeah, it's a situation where you're

31:33

looking at a lot of factors

31:35

that James Gunn had nothing to

31:37

do with, right? I mean, nothing

31:39

to do with the state of...

31:41

Warner Brothers Discovery and the mergers

31:43

and all the stuff that's happened.

31:46

they're the renaming of Max or

31:48

now it's HBO and Max, like

31:50

there's, there's nothing to do with

31:52

that. But there are decisions that

31:54

have been made here that have

31:56

affected him and he's going to

31:58

in a way be put on,

32:00

put his feet into the fire

32:02

because of how, depending on us,

32:04

Superman does, because of how Zazlov

32:06

has set this whole thing up.

32:08

You know, a lot of people

32:10

have speculated and some people have

32:12

said that they've heard from sources

32:14

within waterburos that what he wanted

32:16

to do was. to eventually sell

32:18

Warner Brothers and just take discovery

32:20

for himself, eventually down the road,

32:22

which is where he had come

32:24

from. So is that the whole

32:26

goal of this whole situation? You

32:28

want to sell it at its

32:30

highest peak, so you want everything

32:32

to do well. But recently, I

32:34

mean, even Joker too, bombing, all

32:36

these things affect him down the

32:38

road, and now there's the report

32:40

in Pux saying that Abdean Daluka

32:42

might be moved out and Saffrin

32:44

is moved up into that position,

32:46

leaving James Gunn is the sololo

32:48

head. of the DC arm of

32:50

things and that I think that

32:52

could spell disaster on so many

32:54

levels and I so I hope

32:56

that's not what happens in this

32:58

situation but there is pressure on

33:00

this film there is pressure for

33:02

this film to perform and I

33:04

think because it's different like Marvel

33:06

I think if Marvel had their

33:08

Um, had their way, they would

33:11

have started with Spider-Man if they

33:13

had had Spider-Man as their starting

33:15

point, as the most popular, arguably,

33:17

the most popular Marvel character. Iron

33:19

Man isn't the most popular Marvel

33:21

character, but they made it work.

33:23

Then they brought the Holkin, then

33:25

they, or then they brought the,

33:27

uh, Captain America, Thor, so you're

33:29

right, Mike, they put the building

33:31

blocks in with mostly good, but

33:33

not great movies, but not great

33:35

movies, and then eventually built out

33:37

from there. W. B. I think

33:39

is top heavy. So leading with

33:41

Superman. So I think the mistake

33:43

here is if Superman doesn't do

33:45

well, what you have is a

33:47

bunch of smaller movies. Supergirl, the

33:49

authority of that ever gets off

33:51

the ground. We don't know what

33:53

the situation with Batman is. And

33:55

then lanterns. So these are not

33:57

strong. You're not going Superman to

33:59

Batman. wonder why? And so I think

34:01

there's where there's a little bit of a

34:03

tough situation if Superman isn't going to do

34:06

well. You don't have these stronger characters to

34:08

come in and be like, well, look, like

34:10

Wonder Woman did with Galgano, that came in

34:12

and people had to hope for the D.

34:14

C. E. You after that movie, like, Oh,

34:17

maybe they can write the shit. Maybe they

34:19

can do better. But it was Fool's gold

34:21

in the end. So they don't have

34:23

someone coming up behind Superman at that

34:26

level that's going to get people excited.

34:28

for more so I think that's another

34:30

reason why there's a lot of pressure

34:32

and look that's where James gun

34:34

does have to take some blame

34:36

or does have to take some

34:38

responsibility because he has constructed it

34:40

this way and so therefore however

34:42

it plays out he is the person

34:45

responsible for whether it succeeds

34:47

or fails because of the planning yeah

34:49

I think when you look at the

34:52

former regime or not former there's still

34:54

the current they potentially a former regime

34:56

with Abdi and Daluka look at

34:58

the mistakes that they that they

35:00

made in a lot when you

35:02

with Joker too like they you know

35:05

they gave they didn't do test

35:07

screenings they let it premiere

35:09

it can and it was it

35:11

was a bloated budget yeah 200

35:14

any other studio executive

35:16

would have made that

35:18

same decision coming off

35:20

of a best picture

35:22

a award nominated billion

35:24

dollar movie They would have done

35:26

the same thing. I mean, there's just

35:29

been, there's been kind of a string,

35:31

a string of bad luck. Like the

35:33

pressure that, again, according to the article,

35:36

that they're apparently putting on centers, I'm

35:38

like, that movie couldn't have cost that

35:40

much. I mean, it's crazy to think

35:43

that they're put, again, it being mentioned

35:45

in the same breadth as something like

35:47

Superman, it's something like, you know, you

35:50

know, Mickey 17. I'm like, the movie

35:52

looks great. It looks really great, but

35:54

also that's not on the level of

35:56

these other huge effects driven, effects

35:59

driven. Right. But even... No, go

36:01

ahead, sorry, go ahead. I know I

36:03

was going to say, even Mickey 17,

36:05

it's like, so you're a studio executive

36:07

and Academy Award winner Balm June Ho

36:09

wants to make a sci-fi movie based

36:12

on a book starring Robert Pattensen, Mark

36:14

Ruffalo, and Tony Collette. Where's the error

36:16

in judgment there? Giving them $130 million

36:18

to do it. That's the error in

36:20

judgment. I mean, the fact that Mickey

36:23

17 is opening was the biggest opening

36:25

he's ever had, tells you, like people

36:27

enjoy his movies with a small to

36:29

medium budget i don't understand spending a

36:31

hundred thirty million dollars on it or

36:33

a hundred million dollars on center or

36:36

from what i read in the article

36:38

the bride the maggy jillan of them

36:40

why are you giving her a hundred

36:42

million dollars to do the bride which

36:44

is getting some bad reactions and test

36:47

screening so at some point it isn't

36:49

about luction i think it's about decisions

36:51

that you're giving this much money to

36:53

these directors and their the product that's

36:55

coming through is not Not good because

36:58

of the high budget you expect them

37:00

to make this much money, but if

37:02

you give them a lower budget, you

37:04

can take the hits, I think, a

37:06

little bit better than if you give

37:08

them high budgets. Yeah, I mean, I

37:11

guess with Kugler, I'm like, he's got

37:13

a proven track record. You can't go

37:15

with Kugeler. I don't doubt that. I

37:17

don't, I don't, I don't question that

37:19

for sure. Yeah, or multiple errors. I

37:22

was talking about Bonjoon Ho over here,

37:24

like I leave me alone on the

37:26

Maggie Jillin Hall front. I didn't touch

37:28

that one. I didn't green light that.

37:30

Yeah. Yeah, so we'll see what happens.

37:32

But yeah, I think well, we'll quick

37:35

Shannon before we leave. What do you

37:37

feel about? Do you think if Peter

37:39

Sars Gore and Michael? Have you chimed

37:41

on this? If Peter Sarsgaard moves in

37:43

that position, what's the danger? I mean

37:46

if Peter Sarsguard goes from actor studio

37:48

that's huge. I was saying Peter Scarsgar

37:50

taking over the studio is a choice.

37:52

I'm sorry. From the bomb of Green

37:54

Lantern to the head of the studio,

37:56

it's like, you know what, now I'm

37:59

calling the shots. Look at me mom.

38:01

Like if saffron goes and becomes the

38:03

head of WB films, I mean, they're,

38:05

you know, they very publicly said that

38:07

for DC, saffron is the business head

38:10

gun is the creative. They're not gonna

38:12

let, they're not gonna make gun take

38:14

over the business side himself. Like there,

38:16

there would be someone that they would

38:18

be someone that they would put. in

38:21

that place. What I do think could

38:23

be interesting, again, not really knowing a

38:25

ton about their partnership, other than what

38:27

we've read about, is someone comes in

38:29

as the executive and you would assume

38:31

Gunn would have approval, Stafford would have

38:34

approval. Is the power dynamic between the

38:36

two of them? the same as the

38:38

power that I make between him and

38:40

gun now, between gun and saffron now.

38:42

Like will it be sort of guns

38:45

just like, hey, you know, you're on

38:47

my block, you gotta listen to what

38:49

I say. So, and again, this could

38:51

all, this could all be smoke. I

38:53

mean, saffron may not be going anywhere.

38:55

So, yeah. But at the end of

38:58

the day, they're not, guns not gonna

39:00

have to shoulder those, the business side.

39:02

Like someone's gonna fill that role that

39:04

role. Mike, what do you think about

39:06

this real quick? I don't know. I

39:09

don't know. I don't know, man. I

39:11

think it's a lot of... What ifs?

39:13

It's just a lot of people freaking

39:15

out over something that hasn't happened yet

39:17

is what it really is. It's like,

39:19

so do I... Like, yes, I don't

39:22

think James Gunn should run things by

39:24

himself. So somebody would have to go

39:26

in there if that were the case,

39:28

but that were the case, but is

39:30

that the case? Is everybody going to

39:33

be out? Are they not going to

39:35

be out? Like, this is like a

39:37

bunch of fire before we even see

39:39

any smoke. And I'm like, let's just

39:41

like wait for the god damn movie

39:44

to come out and see how it

39:46

is. Like, I mean, like, maybe it

39:48

comes out. and we all universally go,

39:50

wow, that is not a universe that

39:52

I want any part of. Yeah. Like

39:54

maybe we are all, maybe we all

39:57

resoundingly go, well, they tried it again,

39:59

I guess we're gonna have to wait

40:01

a decade or so, and then maybe

40:03

we'll figure this out. And maybe that's

40:05

what's gonna happen, but I think the

40:08

real, the likelihood is the movie's gonna

40:10

come out. And a lot of people

40:12

are going to love it and think

40:14

it's the greatest thing in the world.

40:16

And a lot of people are going

40:18

to not like it because it's not

40:21

Zach Snyder and it's not Man of

40:23

Steel. And there's going to be a

40:25

lot of people are in the middle.

40:27

And if Middle America, if people who

40:29

don't have these conversations every single week,

40:32

go see the movie and it makes

40:34

money, then great. everyone's gonna be fine

40:36

nobody's getting fired let's just all keep

40:38

moving and then we'll see where it

40:40

goes from there and then we'll and

40:42

then we can jump back over to

40:45

the giant Batman problem they have and

40:47

why there's no Wonder Woman movie and

40:49

then we'll have those discussions that's my

40:51

concern if I because I think if

40:53

James Gunn moves up to the head

40:56

of the studio we're done with a

40:58

Batman part too I'm just telling that

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and details. Okay, let's move on to

42:56

some trailer Shannon. What have you got

42:58

for us? We got some trailers, trailers,

43:00

trailers. The first one dropped just today

43:02

as we were recording this. And this

43:04

was the, I don't know if it's

43:07

the final trailer, but it is the

43:09

latest trailer for the live action interpretation

43:11

of Disney's Lilo and Stitch. So as

43:13

someone who has not been a huge

43:15

fan. of most of these live-action adaptations.

43:18

I put nothing on this. I thought

43:20

some of the teasers that we got

43:22

leading up to this trailer. I'm like,

43:24

oh, those are funny. Those are cute.

43:26

Stitch looks like animated Stitt's just furrier.

43:28

But we hadn't seen a ton. I

43:31

mean, it was kind of similar to

43:33

the marketing that the animated film had,

43:35

that you didn't see a ton from

43:37

the movie leading up. You just saw

43:39

this little mischievous alien popping in and

43:42

out of Disney characters that we know.

43:44

Getting the full trailer today. I am

43:46

shocked that I've watched us and I'm

43:48

like, that looks cute as hell. Like

43:50

I think that looks like. a really

43:53

really fun, fun family summer movie. And

43:55

again, was not expecting to have this

43:57

reaction at all. And it looks like

43:59

they pretty much done the thing that

44:01

I really ding how to train your

44:03

dragon for. I'm like, this looks pretty

44:06

much like the animated movie, but there's

44:08

something about seeing this in live action

44:10

that I feel like it is working

44:12

for me right now. But I'm gonna

44:14

throw it over to you gentlemen first,

44:17

Mikey. I know you got thoughts, you're

44:19

our Disney guy, what did you think

44:21

of our latest look at the live

44:23

action, Lilo and Stitch? It's a tough

44:25

call, it's a little bit, like the

44:27

first half of the trailer falls into

44:30

the, oh wow, that is shot for

44:32

shot, like that alien being like, he

44:34

took the red one. I'm like, the

44:36

line read is the same as the

44:38

animated movie, like it was literally shot

44:41

for shot, and then once he got

44:43

to Hawaii, There started to be a

44:45

little bit more variety, okay, like some

44:47

different, some different jokes, some different beats.

44:49

It was like, all right, so this

44:51

is a little bit different. It's a

44:54

hard thing because I don't think this

44:56

is gonna be as good as Leo

44:58

and Stitch, the animated movie. Like it's

45:00

just not gonna be as good. And

45:02

I think every live action remake suffers

45:05

from, you're making a version of something

45:07

that is great, and the chances of

45:09

you surpassing that are low. Even the

45:11

live action remakes that I like, I

45:13

don't think they surpass their animated counterparts.

45:16

And so I'm watching this. I agree.

45:18

I think Stitch looks adorable. I love

45:20

Stitch. And I think most people do.

45:22

I mean, Stitch is easily one of

45:24

the most popular characters that Disney has.

45:26

So putting him in live action makes

45:29

sense. The girl playing Lilo, I'm a

45:31

little nervous about. Not quite sure she's

45:33

gonna be able to carry this movie

45:35

with her CG buddy. You know, I

45:37

can complain about it and I can

45:40

say what I think isn't going to

45:42

be great about it, but am I

45:44

going opening weekend to see Lilo and

45:46

Stitch? I obviously am. So that job

45:48

well done trailer. Johnny Ohana means family.

45:50

Does it also mean a lot of

45:53

money for Disney? What do you think

45:55

of the latest look at Lilo? and

45:57

stitch? I think so. I'm surprised the

45:59

rock didn't get a cameo in this.

46:01

But yes, I think this was a

46:04

fun trailer, but I'm with you, Michael,

46:06

the Lido actress, the little girl, I

46:08

didn't find the magic or the charm

46:10

of her that I would like to

46:12

have seen with something like this. I

46:14

did like the animation. I even think

46:17

the mom, who is what taking, what

46:19

is it, Tia Carrera's role, I don't

46:21

think even she was that strong in

46:23

playing the role. So that's an, I

46:25

have only seen the thing once, sorry

46:28

guys. So to me, that's the negative

46:30

thing when I look at the trailers.

46:32

I don't, the humans aren't as interesting

46:34

or charming or fun to make me

46:36

dial into this thing as much as

46:39

Lilo is. So you got to buy

46:41

the chemistry between as much as Lilo

46:43

is. And you got to buy the

46:45

chemistry between them. I don't know that

46:47

necessarily bought it. Although he had some

46:49

funny moments, so we'll see. I thought

46:52

that was fun. Yeah. Who knew that

46:54

the iffy child actor and the live-action

46:56

adaptation of an animated film was going

46:58

to get a fan out of this

47:00

one and not these two? Lilo in

47:03

Stitch comes out May 23rd. That brings

47:05

us to our next trailer. This is

47:07

our latest look at the studio. This

47:09

is from writer Seth Rogan and Evan

47:11

Goldberg for Apple. This is their take

47:13

on... on a big studio politics. The

47:16

fictitious continental studio that Seth Rogan's character

47:18

is on the precipice of taking control

47:20

of, anything that these two guys do,

47:22

these two writers, the success to failure

47:24

ratio, it's high on the success ratio.

47:27

Has everything they've written done great? No.

47:29

But they do. These guys write comedy

47:31

well and this one absolutely made me

47:33

laugh. It might be a little inside

47:35

baseball for people but... Johnny I'll throw

47:38

it over to you first. I think

47:40

you've actually maybe seen a little bit

47:42

of this, right? What did you think

47:44

of our latest look at the studio?

47:46

I don't know. There's much I can

47:48

say because I've already, I've seen five

47:51

episodes of the series. I hope to

47:53

finish in the next few days. I

47:55

had to pause because Lady Outlaw's in

47:57

LA and should be back tomorrow. So

47:59

we're gonna start up again tomorrow. But

48:02

the trailer was great because the trailer

48:04

conveys exactly what the show is exactly

48:06

what the show is moving moments and

48:08

amidst all the madness of it all.

48:10

And for those of us who love

48:12

movies, and I hear you Shannon, it

48:15

might be too inside baseball, but I

48:17

think having Seth Rogan keeps it from

48:19

being too inside baseball because everybody kind

48:21

of loves Seth. And so he makes

48:23

it a relatable show because we've all

48:26

worked for jobs where there are crazy

48:28

people who are our bosses and we

48:30

have to do insane shit to make

48:32

stuff work. So I think that's the

48:34

relatability of it all that the... the

48:36

show really gets right. And surprisingly, him

48:39

and Baron Holtz's chemistry is really good.

48:41

Like I did not anticipate liking Ike

48:43

in this role and I like him

48:45

and Seth a lot. And there are

48:47

great cameos. So good trailer, that's what

48:50

I'll say. Mikey, you've worked at a

48:52

studio to the characters of Seth Rogan,

48:54

Catherine O'Hara, Catherine Hahn, Ike Baron, Ike

48:56

Baron Holtz. Is that what it's like

48:58

to work at The Studio? Yes, yes

49:01

it is. No, I mean like what

49:03

John is saying, which makes me excited

49:05

about watching the show, because what I

49:07

liked about the trailer is, what was

49:09

that one that just came out on

49:11

HBO, where they're making the superhero movie?

49:14

Oh yeah, franchise. I got canceled. Yeah,

49:16

yeah, yeah. I watched that first episode

49:18

of that. And I was like, why

49:20

this, I should be the audience for

49:22

the show, why am I not liking

49:25

it? Why am I not liking it.

49:27

Why am I not liking it. cynical

49:29

like it it was it was making

49:31

fun of the superhero genre but it

49:33

didn't feel like it loved the superhero

49:35

genre it was like let's just make

49:38

fun of this fucking thing that we

49:40

all have to go to the movies

49:42

and see all the time and with

49:44

this trailer it looks very funny it

49:46

looks great it's like star studded it's

49:49

exactly what you expect back from an

49:51

Apple show with like just this stacked

49:53

cast. But like within the crazy of

49:55

how ridiculous the movie industry is, which

49:57

is not an exaggeration, it really is

49:59

that crazy, there was this little bit

50:02

of like, but like, aren't movies fucking

50:04

great? Yes. Like isn't this crazy fucking

50:06

town and all of the bullshit that

50:08

we go through, we get to make

50:10

magic. And that little bit of that

50:13

trailer, I was like, that's why I

50:15

think this show is getting all of

50:17

the great early buzz that it's getting,

50:19

where the franchise did not, because you

50:21

watched it and you kind of came

50:24

out going, God, maybe I should hate

50:26

Superhero movies. Whereas this one, you get

50:28

to the end of, I think it's

50:30

Catherine O'Hara that's like, you know, Seth

50:32

Rogan's going crazy at the end of

50:34

the end of the trailer, and he's

50:37

like, and I'm gonna do this, and

50:39

then I'm gonna ruin this, and she's

50:41

like, and she's like, and she's like,

50:43

and she's like, and she's like, and

50:45

she's like, and she's like, and she's

50:48

like, and she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

50:50

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

50:52

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

50:54

like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

50:56

like, like, like, like, Yeah, and I

50:58

was like, oh, this thing, this is

51:01

going to be good. I am in

51:03

on this. Yeah, yeah, I excitedly tested

51:05

all the guys in our friend, J,

51:07

G, and our in our threat because

51:09

I'm like, you guys are going to

51:12

love this. So yeah, sorry, shouldn't go

51:14

ahead. No, I I super enjoyed the

51:16

trailer and this one is coming out

51:18

very soon just in about two weeks

51:20

March 26th And that brings us to

51:22

our last trailer something that we have

51:25

waited years for The latest look at

51:27

the last of us season two with

51:29

the continuing adventures of Joel and Ellie

51:31

look this one This one came out.

51:33

I don't think I don't think people

51:36

were expecting a series based off of

51:38

a video game to be as Emotionally

51:40

heart-wrenching as this show was especially for

51:42

especially for a video game show that

51:44

didn't have the most action But when

51:47

it did have action Because you care

51:49

so much about the people that are

51:51

involved everything was just dialed up to

51:53

11 and it looks like the second

51:55

season is going to be doing that

51:57

in droves now for someone that has

52:00

not played the second game I've heard

52:02

a little I'm trying to stay away

52:04

from it. This one thus far looks

52:06

fantastic, but I'll throw it over to

52:08

you gentlemen. Mikey, what'd you think of

52:11

our latest look at the last of

52:13

us season two? I mean, they don't

52:15

even need to show me anything. I

52:17

mean, I mean, I'm in. I mean

52:19

in all the way, but it looks

52:21

great. The trailer looks really good. I

52:24

mean, the only thing I would disagree,

52:26

like, I think anyone who ever played

52:28

the games did expect a show based

52:30

on this video game to be as

52:32

emotionally heart-wrenching. But people that didn't play,

52:35

the people that didn't play the game.

52:37

But I'm just saying, I think that

52:39

this is just a straight down-the-line example,

52:41

and I think we talked about this

52:43

a lot when we did our last-ofs-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-of-

52:45

add things tweak things make stories and

52:48

characters a little bit different a hundred

52:50

percent but they took the emotional impact

52:52

that the story of that game had

52:54

on people who played it And they

52:56

made that work in TV and they

52:59

didn't try and go, oh, it's just

53:01

a video game, it's just this, like

53:03

so many other franchises done. So given

53:05

what they did with the first season,

53:07

my expectation of season two couldn't be

53:10

any higher than it is. And all

53:12

of the trailers that I've seen, including

53:14

this one. seem to confirm that my

53:16

expectations as high as they are are

53:18

going to be met. So, like, this

53:20

is, this is premium television. I do

53:23

love that in the age of all

53:25

the shows that we get and all

53:27

the streamers, somehow HBO shows still manage

53:29

to have that. Hey, this is HBO.

53:31

Like, this is HBO. Like, whether it's

53:34

Last of us or The White Lotus

53:36

or anything, it's like, there's a certain

53:38

level in caliber show that HBO still

53:40

has this pedigree that you're like, this

53:42

is real TV. I mean, especially for

53:44

the shows that come out on Sundays.

53:47

Like on Sunday, it's HBO Sunday night.

53:49

It's not TV. It's HBO. Johnny, what

53:51

do you think of our latest look

53:53

at the last of us season two?

53:55

I thought it was great. I loved

53:58

it. I just like you should. I

54:00

haven't played the second iteration of the

54:02

game, but. But you got a one

54:04

up, right? When you come up with

54:06

a series like this, following up with

54:08

a great second season is always difficult.

54:11

And from that trailer, it looks like

54:13

they've done so. And that teaser trailer

54:15

already had me in. This one has

54:17

me even more in because what's the

54:19

secret? What's the big reveal? Having not

54:22

played the game, I don't know. But

54:24

the fact that they're playing it up

54:26

makes me very excited. More with Caitlin

54:28

Deaver is great. More with everybody involved.

54:30

and Pedro and Gabriel Luna more with

54:33

him. I'm excited. All of it. And

54:35

the Jeffrey Wright stuff, especially that dude

54:37

chained to the wall saying you're going

54:39

to lose. Oh my God, that drove

54:41

me insane because, you know, that kind

54:43

of stuff. Seeing the depravity of humanity

54:46

in zombie apocalypse or in virus apocalypse

54:48

like this, that's the stuff that is

54:50

the real terror for me, seeing what

54:52

human beings can actually do. And I

54:54

think about that scene in the road

54:57

when they stumble upon the basement where

54:59

all those people are down there. I've

55:01

never gotten rid of that scene in

55:03

my mind. And this scene had shades

55:05

of that. And so that makes me

55:07

know that we're in really great territory

55:10

right now. So yeah, I'm excited for

55:12

it. And it's also, you know, also

55:14

set in the snow, which you know,

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Hey folks, we're the host of

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Comic Sans. The podcast about Comics

56:43

for those who are Sands Knowledge.

56:45

I'm Yan. And I'm Nat. Comics

56:47

Sands is a show for people

56:50

who are new to comics, like

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me. I make Nat read some

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of my favorite works in the

56:56

medium, including Saga, Daredevil, and The

56:58

Flynn Stones. And Jan talks about

57:01

what makes that comic special. We've

57:03

just launched season 3 of comic

57:05

sands, with new episodes every two

57:07

weeks. And you can binge the

57:09

first two seasons wherever you get

57:12

your podcasts. Anyway,

57:16

let's get on to these things. We've

57:18

got a limited time here. All right,

57:20

Daredevil, episode three, born again, it came

57:22

out here. This one featured pretty much

57:24

court stuff going on here with Matt

57:26

Murdoch defending Hector Ayala, aka the white

57:28

tiger against these accusations that he killed

57:31

a cop. There were some really beautiful

57:33

moments between the two guys talking about

57:35

the importance of heroism and what it

57:37

means, whether you wear an outfit or

57:39

not. But we also had shades of

57:41

the Punisher logo being on some of

57:43

these possibly corrupt cops. And so what

57:45

does that mean? The punishers right around

57:48

the corner? We all said a little

57:50

bit more with Kingpin and Vanessa, but

57:52

let's focus initially on the white tiger

57:54

stuff. So Michael, I go to you

57:56

first. What did you think of the

57:58

show overall? This episode rather and then

58:00

what did you think of how they

58:03

handled the. situation with Matt and Hector

58:05

leading to somebody wearing the Punisher logo

58:07

shooting him in the head and killing

58:09

him. I the thing about the show

58:11

in the third the third episode is

58:13

kind of I'm on the same I'm

58:15

on I'm on the ride I feel

58:17

like this show is not quite as

58:20

good as I want it to be

58:22

there's always just a little bit holding

58:24

me back but broad strokes I really

58:26

love where we're going like the devil

58:28

is in the details when it comes

58:30

to Daredevil. And I think some of

58:32

the details get a little bit sloppy.

58:35

A couple moments, even though I like

58:37

where we get to, I don't necessarily

58:39

love how we got there. All in

58:41

all though, and I think I said

58:43

this last week, as someone who's read

58:45

Daredevil and has read Marvel Comics for

58:47

a while, I love a. I did

58:49

not love, I'll just get to the

58:52

thing I didn't love, I did not

58:54

love Matt Murdoch outing White Tiger without

58:56

White Tiger's permission. I think that is

58:58

one thousand percent something Matt Murdoch would

59:00

not do. I get why they did

59:02

it for the drama of the moment,

59:04

I get why they did the thing,

59:07

but I, even when he says to

59:09

him in the, when they're back in

59:11

the cell and he's like, hey, I'm

59:13

just trying to keep you out of

59:15

jail man. I'm like, you have a

59:17

secret identity. This is crazy even if

59:19

they had done something as little as

59:21

him kind of walking up and kind

59:24

of opening up the bag and seeing

59:26

the Amulate and kind of looking at

59:28

him and then Hector nodded his head

59:30

and then he did it like I

59:32

didn't need a whole scene I just

59:34

needed that one thing so that really

59:36

irked me because I think that's out

59:38

of character for Matt Murdoch that being

59:41

said once it happened. I loved how

59:43

it turned the case. I loved having

59:45

these people sit on the stand and

59:47

talk about how White Tiger saved them

59:49

and that this whole case became a

59:51

referendum on vigilantes. And vigilantes in this

59:53

town, and then I loved how the

59:56

result of that case fed right into

59:58

Wilson Fisk, who is now mayor. because

1:00:00

he's running on an anti-vigilante campaign.

1:00:02

So what I think the show

1:00:05

is doing very well is leading

1:00:07

into this giant debate about vigilantes,

1:00:09

about like is, do these people

1:00:11

running around in masks in our

1:00:14

city? Like, do we like them?

1:00:16

Do we hate them? Do they

1:00:18

have a right to be here?

1:00:21

And that combined with a clearly

1:00:23

somewhat corrupt police force is really

1:00:25

interesting, because like the entire... argument

1:00:27

against vigilantes is if you really

1:00:30

wanted to save people and do the

1:00:32

right thing, you can become a cop

1:00:34

and all these people risk their lives

1:00:36

every day. But we're sitting here looking

1:00:38

at half of these cops who are

1:00:40

corrupt and you're like, the system's not

1:00:42

working. We got a fucking criminal as

1:00:44

mayor. So I think like the way

1:00:47

that they got there and some of

1:00:49

the details I didn't love, but I

1:00:51

could watch Matt Murdoch try superhero

1:00:53

cases all day long and

1:00:55

be happy. What happened with

1:00:57

the Hectoriola storyline here and

1:00:59

the interactions with Matt Murdoch? I

1:01:02

mean, overall, I mean, I agree

1:01:04

with Vogel, but that moment did

1:01:06

feel a little out of character

1:01:08

for if you are familiar with

1:01:10

Matt Murdoch from the comic books.

1:01:12

But again, in a show that is

1:01:14

an action show to not have any

1:01:16

action, I was thoroughly entertained. I mean,

1:01:19

I think at Daredevil should feel like

1:01:21

Law and Order in the MCGO. And

1:01:23

definitely in the courtroom scenes, that

1:01:25

was the by by God. I

1:01:28

love the confrontation between Matt and

1:01:30

the cop in the bathroom

1:01:32

because at the end of season two,

1:01:34

at the end of episode two, I'm

1:01:36

like, those cops seem like they did.

1:01:39

So it's kind of like, okay, well,

1:01:41

we know they survived. But. Just

1:01:43

the interplay that they had,

1:01:45

the back and forth, the

1:01:47

cross-examination, having Nikki Torres, like,

1:01:50

you know, watching how the

1:01:52

cops try to railroad the

1:01:54

defense, all that stuff I

1:01:57

really, really like. I do wonder

1:01:59

at the end. and if there was a

1:02:01

better way for them to take out White

1:02:03

Tiger, I felt like that was a little,

1:02:05

it was a little convenient. And granted,

1:02:08

you're on a television budget,

1:02:10

you can only do so

1:02:12

much. But literally this guy

1:02:14

who has this ambulance who

1:02:16

gives him enhanced speed and

1:02:18

strength walks past a guy and bang. I

1:02:20

feel like there should have been more of

1:02:22

a to do, there should have been more

1:02:25

of a setup that he was trying

1:02:27

to save. trying to try to

1:02:29

get in the middle of some

1:02:31

sort of distraction for that to

1:02:34

for that to play believeably because

1:02:36

knowing what knowing what the amulate

1:02:38

does and knowing his history as

1:02:40

a crime fighter it's like that

1:02:43

seems really hard for me to

1:02:45

wrap my head around at the

1:02:47

end of this really really intriguing

1:02:49

episode I thought I thought he was

1:02:51

fantastic. Like I and really really sad

1:02:53

knowing that you know he passed a

1:02:56

little while ago but seeing the humanity

1:02:58

that he brought to Hector I mean

1:03:00

I was I was fully on board

1:03:02

I mean I think the I think

1:03:04

the fifth storyline was you know not

1:03:07

the most intriguing this time

1:03:09

they didn't have a ton of

1:03:11

real estate devoted to it. But

1:03:13

the actual courtroom stuff I really

1:03:15

enjoyed. Yeah, I agree. I think the

1:03:17

courtroom stuff works really well. But like the

1:03:19

turns with Nikki, like the surprise that Nikki

1:03:21

testifies that he wasn't on that

1:03:23

platform, but the intimidation from the cops,

1:03:26

you can understand that, Matt hearing them.

1:03:28

So I like that they're exploring police

1:03:30

corruption, police brutality in this city. I

1:03:32

think that's important. element of the show

1:03:34

to explore and a realistic thing to

1:03:36

explore the fact that they have all

1:03:39

these tattoos. There's a lot of reports

1:03:41

that have come out over the last

1:03:43

few years about gangs within police forces.

1:03:45

So I like that they're addressing that.

1:03:47

And of course, it's meta because a

1:03:49

lot of these people have taken the

1:03:52

Punisher logo and misconstrued it so much

1:03:54

or twisted it around so much

1:03:56

that Marvel has given Punisher new

1:03:58

logo to carry around or to

1:04:00

go to as a way to

1:04:03

battle that stuff We've heard the

1:04:05

term magical Negro. They essentially magical

1:04:07

Latinoed Hector Ayala by having him

1:04:09

have this conversation with Matt like,

1:04:11

hey, you know, got to be

1:04:13

a hero, whether you wear the

1:04:15

uniform or not, the calls, oh

1:04:17

cool, awesome. I'm gonna go out

1:04:19

right after I got, right after

1:04:21

I was found not guilty and

1:04:23

get my amulate, and I'm gonna

1:04:25

get killed. you know and I'm

1:04:27

gonna get fraged in essence and

1:04:29

so to me that was frustrating

1:04:32

because he's such a strong character

1:04:34

and he delivered such a wonderful

1:04:36

performance that you want more now

1:04:38

I know he's dead in the

1:04:40

comics or something like that so

1:04:42

I understand but I think he

1:04:44

could have held on a little

1:04:46

bit longer and then as you

1:04:48

said Michael some other or Shannon

1:04:50

said I think some other way

1:04:52

to off him that's connected to

1:04:54

Wilson a little more obviously I

1:04:56

think would have been something more

1:04:58

valuable having him say people having

1:05:00

we don't even see him fights

1:05:03

like we don't we saw him

1:05:05

in the camera on one convenience

1:05:07

store but we don't really get

1:05:09

the weight of white tiger we

1:05:11

don't really get enough time with

1:05:13

him so that his death has

1:05:15

real resonance and meaning beyond helping

1:05:17

the white lead discover himself all

1:05:19

over again to be daredevil and

1:05:21

so for me I thought that

1:05:23

was a little unfair but the

1:05:25

stuff in the stuff I just

1:05:27

think that what they did with

1:05:29

Hector was frustrating for me I

1:05:32

mean, I don't know that I told,

1:05:34

I mean, again, this is the, this

1:05:36

is just another shade of our ongoing

1:05:38

argument about the purpose of characters in

1:05:41

TV shows, like, there is, they wanted

1:05:43

to do the story where a character

1:05:45

who is a vigilante, who is outed,

1:05:47

gets killed, and that is going to

1:05:49

kick, remember, like, particularly, like, particularly, because

1:05:51

originally, this was the end of the

1:05:53

second episode, not the first episode, like

1:05:55

things got reworked, but like these second.

1:05:57

in third episode of Daredevil Born Again

1:05:59

were originally the pilot and the second

1:06:01

episode before they went possibly two through

1:06:03

six is still what they had shot

1:06:06

that came out today report saying that

1:06:08

which if that's true that's disappointing but

1:06:10

go ahead well I think it is

1:06:12

but I mean I don't I think

1:06:14

they got in there and like they

1:06:16

I think they went in to make

1:06:18

the changes they needed to make but

1:06:20

there's parts of the stuff they wanted

1:06:22

to keep like and I think that

1:06:24

again all things being equal This was

1:06:26

a character that was supposed to kick

1:06:28

things into gear. We are doing a

1:06:31

story about how the city feels about

1:06:33

vigilantes, Daredevil, Wilson Fisk on either side

1:06:35

of this, whatever. I will say, and

1:06:37

I think what I will give the

1:06:39

show credit for is, I think the

1:06:41

way he goes out, I agree with

1:06:43

Shannon about the action level of it,

1:06:45

but the way he goes out and

1:06:47

the way he's treated as a character

1:06:49

in the show, is actually better than

1:06:51

what happens to him in the comics.

1:06:53

In the comics, he is also accused

1:06:56

of killing a cop, Matt Murdoch defends

1:06:58

him, but he loses his temper on

1:07:00

the stand and goes off the rails

1:07:02

a little bit, and so the jury

1:07:04

finds him guilty. And then when he's

1:07:06

walking out of the, when he's walking

1:07:08

out of the court, he kind of

1:07:10

loses his shit and gets shot and

1:07:12

some stuff. But it's like, he's a

1:07:14

little bit more off the handle. I

1:07:16

think they actually did use him and

1:07:18

gave him, he was a really honorable

1:07:21

character. I think they made him a

1:07:23

really powerful character. I understand the whole

1:07:25

magical Negro issue, come on issue, you

1:07:27

have. But I mean, I think that,

1:07:29

you know, he, I think he went

1:07:31

out. With more dignity and respect on

1:07:33

the show than I think he did

1:07:35

in his comic book arc So I

1:07:37

think in that respect I give them

1:07:39

some credit for it while still being

1:07:41

like yes You were gonna you this

1:07:43

is you needed a character who was

1:07:46

gonna die like that was what was

1:07:48

gonna happen and they pulled it from

1:07:50

the comics where white tiger Did die

1:07:52

after his court case? It's just you

1:07:54

know, it's just you get exhausted seeing

1:07:56

people of color die constantly for the

1:07:58

white lead to find themselves. It's just

1:08:00

to feel fucking annoying And so for

1:08:02

me, I've seen it for decades. And

1:08:04

so it's like, there's nothing new here.

1:08:06

You got a chance to do something

1:08:08

new. Pick another hero. But you don't

1:08:11

have to have it comic specific or

1:08:13

comic correct. Just pick another hero. Have

1:08:15

them die. Why does it have to

1:08:17

be this way? Or, comic, correct. Just

1:08:19

pick another hero. Have them die. Why

1:08:21

does it have to be this way?

1:08:23

and saving people and where Matt couldn't

1:08:25

do it. So in a way, it's

1:08:27

like putting the pressure even more on

1:08:29

Matt. There's just a different way you

1:08:31

could have done it than just having

1:08:33

him ice this way and serving the

1:08:36

plot of the Punisher people or whoever

1:08:38

they are doing this thing. So yeah.

1:08:40

What about the other stuff? As you

1:08:42

mentioned here, Shannon, the Kingpin has designs

1:08:44

on the Brooklyn neighborhood of Red Hook,

1:08:46

their discussion over breakfast about crime and

1:08:48

then her kind of... playing some cards

1:08:50

here to try to still keep contact

1:08:52

with the guys there who are in

1:08:54

charge of the five families. Do you

1:08:56

like this idea? Do you, did you

1:08:58

enjoy what's going on here? Is it

1:09:01

just kind of not hitting with you?

1:09:03

It's just kind of stuff right now.

1:09:05

You know, the hijacking scene, I was

1:09:07

kind of like, oh, okay, where's this

1:09:09

going? Guy immediately gets, gets shot and

1:09:11

then we go to the breakfast table.

1:09:13

It's like, hey. they're not behaving because

1:09:15

there's no one there to keep them

1:09:17

in line. I mean, maybe if they

1:09:19

had been able to devote a little

1:09:21

more real estate to it. But as

1:09:23

it stood, I was kind of like,

1:09:26

I don't really care about this right

1:09:28

now. Again, I think the show is

1:09:30

at its strongest when Matt and Fisk

1:09:32

are together. And there's nothing wrong with

1:09:34

Fisk and Vanessa's relationship. It's just not

1:09:36

the most dynamic, especially in this episode

1:09:38

where the White Tiger trial was much

1:09:40

more interest. Fair enough. What are your

1:09:42

thoughts on the stuff here Mike? Was

1:09:44

there enough to even comment on? Yeah,

1:09:46

I think I liked it more than

1:09:48

Shannon did. I think I think they're

1:09:51

really. is really interesting. I kind of

1:09:53

really dug a couple things. Like I

1:09:55

think A, I loved the scene at

1:09:57

the breakfast table because it's clearly a

1:09:59

citizen cane of Romage. Thanks for saying

1:10:01

that, man. It's obviously. It's obviously a

1:10:03

citizen can homage to have them like

1:10:05

you have these two people that used

1:10:07

to be so close and so tight

1:10:09

and they're at opposite ends of the

1:10:11

table they're at opposite ends of the

1:10:14

screen they could not be further apart

1:10:16

from each other and then I really

1:10:18

loved that she sort of brings up

1:10:20

this painting that's up for auction and

1:10:22

then he's like oh this painting and

1:10:24

she's like oh you remember it and

1:10:26

you think this is gonna be this

1:10:28

really sweet this is what they love

1:10:30

she loves art he loves art he

1:10:32

loves art and she loves art and

1:10:34

she loves art and she loves art

1:10:36

and she loves art and she loves

1:10:39

art and she loves art and she

1:10:41

loves art and she's like I could

1:10:43

have laundered a bunch of money through

1:10:45

that painting. And you're like, oh, fuck,

1:10:47

she has gone down this road. Like,

1:10:49

oh, like, you know, like, this is

1:10:51

not the Vanessa and Kingpin relationship. She's

1:10:53

been sort of ruined by the power

1:10:55

that she's gotten. And this is driving

1:10:57

them apart. So I thought that was

1:10:59

like, I thought this was a really

1:11:01

well written scene. And then just the

1:11:04

entire concept, then kind of get into

1:11:06

the next scene when they're there be

1:11:08

like. this whole idea that she's like,

1:11:10

you know, they're going to go crazy

1:11:12

because there's nobody in charge and I

1:11:14

just did what I did to sort

1:11:16

of like keep thing, keep the piece

1:11:18

and that Wilson clearly doesn't want to

1:11:20

keep the piece that he wants the

1:11:22

chaos that he wants the chaos that

1:11:24

he wants this and then that she

1:11:26

thinks he's doing it to sort of

1:11:29

get at her for this affair that

1:11:31

we believe she had with Adam, whoever

1:11:33

he is. to swat it down. Like

1:11:35

I think he's, you know, like I

1:11:37

think that this dynamic between the two

1:11:39

of them. So if he wants the

1:11:41

chaos to happen, but she still wants

1:11:43

to be the kingpin, I think you

1:11:45

are driving these two in a very

1:11:47

natural way. In a show where I

1:11:49

think some things feel very forced, like

1:11:51

the therapist, like Matt outing White Tiger,

1:11:54

their relationship and just watching it inevitably

1:11:56

go where it's going. where there's no,

1:11:58

you can't reconcile this, I think is

1:12:00

really interesting actually. Like you said, there

1:12:02

wasn't a ton of real estate devoted

1:12:04

to it and it wasn't the most

1:12:06

exciting thing in the episode. I think

1:12:08

the court case was much more interesting,

1:12:10

but I thought there was a lot

1:12:12

there that they managed to get in

1:12:14

in little ways in the way they

1:12:16

wrote the scene out and kind of

1:12:19

using the painting and everything the way

1:12:21

they did. Yeah, I do like their

1:12:23

chemistry and I like that you got

1:12:25

to give kingpin some kind of krypton

1:12:27

kind of kryptonite. And certainly she is

1:12:29

that for him because of his love

1:12:31

for her and the crazy stuff he

1:12:33

has done. We've seen numerous iterations of

1:12:35

this relationship in order to save that

1:12:37

love or keep her with him and

1:12:39

what have or protect them in his

1:12:41

own twisted mind. And so you have

1:12:44

that element in so have the king

1:12:46

been say. I don't know if I

1:12:48

can trust you. You know, this idea

1:12:50

of questioning even Vanessa. I like it

1:12:52

better every time you do it. I

1:12:54

like it better when you do the

1:12:56

voice. You're just being, I know you

1:12:58

being sarcastic, but I like. No, I

1:13:00

like every time, every time you do

1:13:02

that. Vanessa. Make me a white omelet.

1:13:04

Egg white ome. Um, all

1:13:06

right, but what about one last thing

1:13:09

Mike and Shannon as well right after?

1:13:11

What about the Matt and Heather scene

1:13:13

about foggy? Is this working? Is this

1:13:16

helping the relationship? Are you guys still

1:13:18

not really on board with it? Go

1:13:20

ahead. One of you guys go. I

1:13:22

think her saying foggy Nelson sounds weird.

1:13:25

Yeah, like I wish I wish you

1:13:27

would have said Franklin. Um, and Matt

1:13:29

is the one who would, who would

1:13:31

correct her, be like, no, he was

1:13:34

talking. Um, but that's, that's like, that's

1:13:36

just a little thing. Okay. All right.

1:13:38

Michael's it working for you? You know,

1:13:40

I just find, again, I think the

1:13:43

actress is good. Like, I'm not, I'm

1:13:45

not dogging on her, but I just

1:13:47

feel like with everything that happened, you

1:13:50

get to the scene where he's making

1:13:52

dinner with her, and you know, like,

1:13:54

A lot of the analogies, like my

1:13:56

favorite part before that thing was like

1:13:59

cutting from Wilson Fisk's bloody knuckles to

1:14:01

Matt's bloody knuckles. I thought that was

1:14:03

a really great transition. Like there were

1:14:05

some really great moments in this episode.

1:14:08

And she is not one of those

1:14:10

great moments to me. I think that

1:14:12

like this relationship that's there, I feel

1:14:15

like she is a character that you

1:14:17

can sort of see that okay well.

1:14:19

She's gonna be music therapists. She Wilson

1:14:21

and Vanessa's therapist. She's dating Matt. She

1:14:24

is a character that sort of is

1:14:26

gonna be caught in this web of

1:14:28

things that Daredevil's gonna have to help

1:14:30

and save in some way. But like,

1:14:33

she feels like a plot device and

1:14:35

this relationship is not a relationship that

1:14:37

I get excited about. Like, Matt and

1:14:40

Karen, great. I know that Elektra is

1:14:42

not the best part of the Netflix

1:14:44

series, but Matt and Elektra had some

1:14:46

great moments together and the way she

1:14:49

pushed his buttons was really good. And

1:14:51

Heather's just like, cool. Like I just,

1:14:53

maybe, maybe her story is gonna really

1:14:55

kick in at some point, but right

1:14:58

now she seems more like a plot

1:15:00

device than a character that I should

1:15:02

really invest in or care about. Yeah,

1:15:04

one I think I said in my

1:15:07

non-spolar series review was that. the show

1:15:09

fails at times with the under development

1:15:11

of character. I know you guys have

1:15:14

heard me say that a million times,

1:15:16

but like if you're gonna make this

1:15:18

love interest important, then you've got to

1:15:20

take the time to develop the relation,

1:15:23

the connection. To me, from the beginning,

1:15:25

I feel like got together way too

1:15:27

quickly, the relationship is moving way too

1:15:29

fast. And Matt, I think, would have

1:15:32

done as careful as Matt Murdoch is.

1:15:34

I think he would have done more

1:15:36

due diligence on this, but then again,

1:15:39

as you guys have said, he's a

1:15:41

hoe. So maybe he's just having fun

1:15:43

with the situation. He is a hoe.

1:15:45

So we'll see where he goes. All

1:15:48

right, any final words? Seriously, wrap up

1:15:50

our spoiler review. I think more you

1:15:52

guys want to make sure we highlight

1:15:54

our hits. I mean, there was a

1:15:57

officer Morales mention of White Tiger. did

1:15:59

live with his sister and his niece,

1:16:01

both of whom is due become white

1:16:03

tiger. No, look, I think the show

1:16:06

is at its best when it's really

1:16:08

diving into what it wants to talk

1:16:10

about, which is how New York City

1:16:13

feels about vigilantes. Like that in and

1:16:15

of itself, whenever they're on that, whenever

1:16:17

they're dealing with cops not liking vigilantes,

1:16:19

but cops wearing the Punisher bat, like

1:16:22

tattoo, like all of those pieces of

1:16:24

it. That's where it really really shines.

1:16:26

Wilson Fisk being like, I don't like

1:16:28

these vigilantes, like that's all great. And

1:16:31

then some of the side parts, I'm

1:16:33

kind of like, yeah, okay, well, let

1:16:35

us, we'll see. I mean, I know

1:16:38

John knows, so he can't say anything,

1:16:40

but I wonder, seeing as how the

1:16:42

cops in the show have sort of

1:16:44

co-opted that Punisher Insignia, is this when

1:16:47

the new Marvel Punisher Insignia is going

1:16:49

to be unveiled in this show, is

1:16:51

like Frank kind of reclaiming his identity?

1:16:53

I mean, I know John knows, so

1:16:56

he can't say anything, but like, I

1:16:58

want to know how Frank feels about

1:17:00

all these cops doing what they're doing,

1:17:03

because I think Frank has a good

1:17:05

question. I think Frank Castle is going

1:17:07

to be pissed about it. And of

1:17:09

all the things that I'm scared about

1:17:12

in life, and I'm scared of a

1:17:14

lot of things, Frank Castle pissed off

1:17:16

at me, is like top of my

1:17:18

list. But only John Barenthal Frank Castle.

1:17:21

I can handle comic book. Comic book

1:17:23

Punisher can get pissed at me all

1:17:25

he wants. I don't care. But like

1:17:27

that punisher, that punisher scares the fucking

1:17:30

shit because he is crazy. You see

1:17:32

crazy in those eyes. Thomas Jane Punisher?

1:17:34

Nah, that's all right. Don't tell us

1:17:37

Jane Punisher. He could yell at me

1:17:39

all he wants. Thomas Jane, I don't

1:17:41

give a shit. This Punisher. Don't be,

1:17:43

I don't, those cops better be careful.

1:17:46

What is that on your neck? What

1:17:48

is that on your neck? You get

1:17:50

to see it like. I want to

1:17:52

know this, like if there's a point

1:17:55

where like Matt Murdoch says something to

1:17:57

Frank Castle, where he's like, these cops,

1:17:59

they got a tattoo, are you working?

1:18:02

They got a tattoo, and you can

1:18:04

just see his crazy, be like, they

1:18:06

got what? And like, crazy eyes go,

1:18:08

oh, he scares me. Even like, even

1:18:11

the trailer for the accountant too, where

1:18:13

he's as charming as he could be,

1:18:15

he scares me a little bit. What?

1:18:17

I didn't say anything. I didn't say

1:18:20

anything. I love that moment. Mark, well,

1:18:22

there you go. That's our spoiler review.

1:18:24

Thank you all so much for watching

1:18:26

this episode of The Geek Buddies. We

1:18:29

appreciate it madly. Shannon, what do we

1:18:31

have to tell them? Yeah, I'd like

1:18:33

to follow us on social media on

1:18:36

Twitter. It's at geek underscore buddies on

1:18:38

Instagram, the underscore buddies, if you like

1:18:40

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1:18:42

on Twitter, it's at geek, Shannon, Shannon,

1:18:45

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1:18:47

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1:18:49

We would also like it if you

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smashed that like button below subscribe to

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1:18:56

the amazing content. He has got there

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leave your comments below Who do you

1:19:01

think Sadie Sink is really playing in

1:19:03

this Spider-Man movie? What do you think

1:19:05

of the Superman movie? Is it going

1:19:07

to tear down Warner Brothers? And what

1:19:10

do you think a daredevil born again?

1:19:12

What do you think of the white

1:19:14

tiger reveal? What do you think of

1:19:16

those punisher tattoos? And what would you

1:19:19

do if Frank Castle? was standing at

1:19:21

the foot of your bed and was

1:19:23

mad at you. You tell us in

1:19:26

the comments below. Go ahead and leave

1:19:28

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to the gym, Michael! Nothing

1:20:18

is as it seems in liminal

1:20:20

London. Hidden amongst everyday people are

1:20:23

were wolves. You'll be the werewolf

1:20:25

then? Yeah, and mags. Wizards? Montgomery,

1:20:27

Archibald Barker at your bloody service.

1:20:30

And those cursed by the Faye

1:20:32

monarchs of the city. Deck and

1:20:34

B cannon PI. He has quite

1:20:37

a large pair of antlers growing

1:20:39

out of his forehead. Join the

1:20:41

unlikely misfits of Liminal London as

1:20:44

they work to take down the

1:20:46

powers that claim to rule the

1:20:48

city. I think the Queen doesn't

1:20:50

like you very much. With incredible

1:20:53

guest players like Johnny Keodini. Say

1:20:55

there's sludge? Yeah, sludge, yeah, I'm

1:20:57

the sludge boy. Love sludge boy.

1:21:00

Again, I'm not that sludge boy.

1:21:02

Grant Howit. Isaac Newton didn't study

1:21:04

and fucking Putney, did he? There

1:21:07

is! Yeah, I'm in a magic

1:21:09

community! Go to realmspod.com or search

1:21:11

realms of peril and glory wherever

1:21:14

you listen to podcast to find

1:21:16

this mysteriously magical actual play series.

1:21:18

It had a pretty good run,

1:21:21

15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though

1:21:23

we have seen, of course, every

1:21:25

episode many times, we figured, hey,

1:21:27

now that we're wrapped, let's watch

1:21:30

it all again. And we can't

1:21:32

do that alone. So we're inviting

1:21:34

the cast and crew that made

1:21:37

the show along for the ride.

1:21:39

We've got writers, producers, composers. directors

1:21:41

and will of

1:21:44

course have some

1:21:46

actors on as

1:21:48

well, including including some

1:21:51

guys guys played

1:21:53

some some certain pretty iconic

1:21:55

brothers. It was kind of

1:21:58

a little bit of a left

1:22:00

field choice in the best way

1:22:02

possible. The note from Kripki was

1:22:04

he's great we love him but

1:22:07

we're looking for like a really

1:22:09

intelligent decovny type. With 15

1:22:11

to explore, it's

1:22:14

going to be

1:22:16

the road be of

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several lifetimes, so

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please join us

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