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How you doing tonight Aaron? I'm

1:52

doing good Justin. How are

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you feeling today? I'm doing

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all right. I'm gonna be

1:58

at advocacy con. March 28th

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And we have a lot

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content that we've never had

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before, really. So thank you

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for the new ideas. So

2:22

you guys all head out

2:24

to patreon.com/generation y. So Aaron

2:26

tonight's case is involving a

2:28

child death. Whenever there's a

2:31

death of a child, you

2:33

know, authorities are going to

2:35

want to hold somebody accountable.

2:37

And as we all do,

2:39

this is something that should

2:41

never happen. And with that,

2:43

what are we talking about

2:45

tonight? Tonight we're talking about

2:48

the January 14th 2009 death

2:50

of 16-month-old Ben King and

2:52

added daycare. This was in

2:54

Lincolnshire, Illinois. So Benjamin

2:56

Kingen was born August 31st, 2007,

2:58

to Amy and Andy Kingen alongside

3:01

his twin sister Emily. Ben was

3:03

one of four children and the

3:05

family resided in an affluent suburb

3:08

of Chicago. When Ben and Emily

3:10

were nine weeks old, they started

3:12

daycare at Minnesouby, where their siblings

3:15

attended. Most of the families at

3:17

the daycare were very well off

3:19

and it was considered a very

3:22

high-end daycare from the reading I've

3:24

done. So this is pretty normal.

3:26

You drop your kids off at

3:29

daycare because you got to go

3:31

to work, right? Yeah, it's a

3:33

reality for many people. Ben attended

3:36

for over a year with no

3:38

major incidents until October 27, 2008.

3:40

So Ben went down for a

3:43

nap. and then a teacher went

3:45

to get him from his crib

3:47

after he woke and they found

3:50

a bump on the back of

3:52

his head. So the staff notified

3:54

Ben's parents and Amy spoke with

3:56

their doctor about it. The doctor

3:59

simply... advised them to keep an

4:01

eye on it and said there's

4:03

no treatment here just keep an

4:06

eye on it. Ben developed a

4:08

fever two days later and on

4:10

October 29th Amy took him to

4:13

the doctor. Now this time he

4:15

was examined by Dr. Bruner a

4:17

different doctor in the practice who

4:20

noted some swelling but wasn't too

4:22

alarmed by what he was seeing.

4:24

Months later on January 12 2009

4:27

Ben developed a cough and then

4:29

vomited multiple times at the daycare.

4:31

He stayed home the next day

4:34

and then returned on January 14th

4:36

to Mini-Subi. So he seems to

4:38

be doing all right. The morning

4:41

goes by without incident, but at

4:43

around 3.30 p.m. it said Ben

4:45

threw himself back and cried. Now

4:48

Nancy Callinger, a teacher in the

4:50

room, thought Ben must have hit

4:52

his head. And then he eventually

4:55

stopped crying. So... They thought, okay,

4:57

well, he must have hurt himself,

4:59

he's doing all right, so they

5:02

put him in a bouncy chair,

5:04

and according to Nancy, he fell

5:06

asleep. Another teacher in the room,

5:08

Melissa Kalyusenski, noticed Ben wasn't looking

5:11

right. Just to her, he didn't

5:13

look right, so at around 350

5:15

p.m. He went and checked on

5:18

him, and she called his name,

5:20

touched his hand, but he didn't

5:22

wake up. Then she noticed orange

5:25

foam started to seep from his

5:27

nose and she tried again to

5:29

rouse him and he wasn't responsive.

5:32

So at this point she's panicking,

5:34

she's alone in the room, she

5:36

calls for help, and her sister

5:39

Crystal enters the room. They are

5:41

checking on him, he doesn't appear

5:43

to have a pulse and Crystal

5:46

started CPR while Melissa removed the

5:48

other children from the room. and

5:50

they'll end up taking him to

5:53

the hospital. So Ben was rushed

5:55

to the Condel Hospital in Libertyville,

5:57

Illinois at the... hospital then went

6:00

into full cardiac arrest. So whatever's

6:02

happened is pretty serious. And I'm

6:04

glad that they noticed something was

6:07

wrong and they took him to

6:09

the hospital right away. But to

6:11

go from being unresponsive to full

6:13

cardiac arrest within, I don't know,

6:16

less than 30 minutes, this is

6:18

a serious injury. Yeah, the attending

6:20

physician, Dr. Adriana arose. said his

6:23

heart rate was extremely low, he

6:25

wasn't breathing, and his eyes were

6:27

fixed and dilated. That's the sign

6:30

of brain death. Dr. Rosco noted

6:32

Ben had a significant head injury.

6:34

Ben never regained consciousness, and Dr.

6:37

Rosco pronounced him deceased at 4.50

6:39

p.m. on January 14, the next

6:41

day, on January 15th, Dr. Eupul

6:44

Choi performed an autopsy. The doctor

6:46

noted a skull fracture starting on

6:48

the top, slightly back middle of

6:51

Ben's skull and going to the

6:53

right about one inch. He also

6:55

reported that Ben had a significant

6:58

injury to the back of his

7:00

brain. His report noted, no hemorrhage

7:02

in the skin and muscular of

7:05

the neck, backspin buttocks, arms and

7:07

legs, but a bruise of the

7:09

upper right arm as previously noted.

7:12

Ben's death was officially ruled a

7:14

homicide due to cranial cerebral injuries.

7:16

due to blunt trauma of the

7:19

head. So that sounds like some

7:21

kind of violent event, according to

7:23

this report. So they're trying to

7:25

figure out what happened, and around

7:28

9.30 a.m. January 16th of 2009,

7:30

Melissa arrived at the police station

7:32

for questioning. She was the last

7:35

adult with Ben while he was

7:37

conscious. So detectives are questioning her.

7:39

and they're trying to figure out

7:42

if there was any abuse that

7:44

was happening. Melissa goes through, recalls

7:46

the events that occurred the day

7:49

before. And the detectives immediately start

7:51

questioning her and accusing her of

7:53

harming them. But she denied that

7:56

she did anything. She said she

7:58

would never hurt a child. So

8:00

at some point during this interview,

8:03

they read her Miranda rights and

8:05

the interview became an hours-long interrogation.

8:07

I don't even know if this

8:10

really went from an interview to

8:12

an interrogation because from the moment

8:14

she sat down. they were questioning

8:17

her hard. And then they just

8:19

say, you have the right to

8:21

remain silent, but then they continue

8:24

questioning her. So for six hours,

8:26

Melissa denies harming Ben. I think

8:28

it's 79 times. She says, I

8:31

did not hurt this boy. And

8:33

at around 1.30 p.m. She claimed

8:35

Ben had thrown himself backwards while

8:37

sitting and hit his head. So

8:40

now it's like, I didn't hurt

8:42

the child. She's saying he threw

8:44

himself backwards, he might have hit

8:47

his head. Detectives left the room

8:49

and returned an hour and a

8:51

half later at 3 p.m. They

8:54

asked Melissa to take a polygraph

8:56

and she immediately agreed. She said,

8:58

yes, let's get this figured out.

9:01

But then they don't administer her

9:03

a polygraph. Officers presented her with

9:05

an alternative theory. He said, maybe

9:08

there was an accident and that's

9:10

how Ben was injured, trying to

9:12

get her to open up a

9:15

little. And after six hours, Melissa

9:17

conceded that she may not have

9:19

put Ben all the way down

9:22

on the ground when getting him

9:24

out of his high chair. She

9:26

claimed now that he slipped and

9:29

she dropped him and he hit

9:31

the chair. His head hit the

9:33

back of the chair. So this

9:36

is a different statement now after

9:38

the one she had made previously

9:40

where she didn't know what happened

9:42

or he might have forced himself

9:45

back. So it's an important part

9:47

of an interrogation if you're working

9:49

on someone and their story starts

9:52

to change is that considered I

9:54

mean, I think so. If their

9:56

statement changes, then this is a

9:59

red flag for the police because

10:01

they're like, well, hey, you said

10:03

you didn't hurt them and now

10:06

you're saying this. But this is

10:08

after six hours. Is this her

10:10

trying to tell them what they

10:13

want to hear? Or is this

10:15

her actually telling them what happened?

10:17

So detectives left the room, then

10:20

they returned at 4.10 PM and

10:22

they're still pushing Melissa. You need

10:24

to tell the truth. They told

10:27

her about Dr. Troy's findings and

10:29

insisted Ben couldn't have obtained that

10:31

type of injury on his own.

10:34

Approximately three hours after Melissa stated

10:36

that Ben slipped and hit the

10:38

chair, detectives told her she got

10:41

frustrated with Ben and threw him

10:43

on the ground. She denied that

10:45

claim, but an investigator interrupted her

10:48

with one word, please. Melissa admitted

10:50

she was frustrated and threw Ben

10:52

on the floor. When investigators clarified,

10:54

If she threw him forcefully, she

10:57

stated really hard, yeah. Just moments

10:59

after confessing, Melissa asked if they

11:01

were almost done because she wanted

11:04

to go home and see her

11:06

parents and puppy. So Melissa described

11:08

and then demonstrated how she threw

11:11

Ben to the floor using a

11:13

notebook and a teddy bear. Police

11:15

informed Dr. Choi of Melissa's account

11:18

and he experimented to see if

11:20

it was possible. Each time investigators

11:22

relayed Melissa's statement, Dr. Choi removed

11:25

Ben's body from the morgue and

11:27

inspected it. So he was describing

11:29

to the police of whether her

11:32

account was plausible and they would

11:34

take this information and then go

11:36

back to the interrogation room. Now

11:39

with each statement, he's like, okay,

11:41

hit his head on the back

11:43

of the chair or is it

11:46

plausible that she threw him down.

11:48

But regardless of whatever input he's

11:50

giving. to the interrogators. They're coming

11:53

back to Melissa and saying, ah,

11:55

that's not really adding up with

11:57

what the medical examiner is saying.

12:00

The detectives obviously feel like they're

12:03

making some headway here on this

12:05

case, but they also interview other

12:07

daycare staff including Crystal, Melissa's sister,

12:09

and Nancy, her co-teacher in the

12:11

room. Melissa claimed Nancy was in

12:13

the room when she threw Ben

12:16

down, but Nancy stated that she

12:18

didn't see or hear anything like

12:20

that, and that she believed that

12:22

Melissa would never throw Ben in

12:24

the first place. She stated she

12:26

set Ben down on the floor,

12:29

and he threw himself back. She

12:31

said he cried for a moment,

12:33

and she thought he may have

12:35

hit his head. but there was

12:37

no significant commotion in the room.

12:39

She helped Ben sit up and

12:42

as she walked away he threw

12:44

himself back once more. Crystal also

12:46

denied seeing or hearing anything before

12:48

Melissa called for help. She told

12:50

officers Melissa was visibly upset and

12:52

crying when she entered the room.

12:55

And right here Aaron I'm thinking

12:57

Crystal saw him throw himself back.

12:59

Crystal's the one that's claiming there's

13:01

some sort of accident. It's a

13:03

little odd that they have Melissa

13:05

in this interrogation room and not

13:08

Crystal, but here we are. Melissa's

13:10

the one that's being blamed for

13:12

abuse, even though Crystal has said,

13:14

no, he threw himself back and

13:16

he heard himself prior to Melissa

13:18

entering the room. Yeah, it's like

13:21

she's backing her co-worker up. So

13:23

is she not in cahoots? Right?

13:25

That's what you're asking. Why isn't

13:27

she being interrogated as well? She's

13:29

apparently siding with Melissa on this.

13:31

And in fact, she's giving information

13:34

that would explain what happened without

13:36

a person being involved. And or,

13:38

not that I want to throw

13:40

anyone under the bus. I'm not

13:42

trying to. Couldn't it have been

13:44

Crystal who did this? And then

13:47

Melissa came across the boy when

13:49

he was on responsive? I mean,

13:51

I'm not trying to say Crystal

13:53

did anything here. But wouldn't that

13:55

be? another theory, another thing that

13:57

could have happened in the investigation?

14:00

Oh, well, Melissa said that she

14:02

came across this child who's unresponsive,

14:04

she calls 911, she gets them

14:06

taken in the hospital. Now we're...

14:08

to Crystal who claims that she's

14:10

the one that saw him fall

14:13

or hurt himself, but somehow Melissa's

14:15

the entire focus of this investigation.

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15:46

charged Melissa Callisinski with the murder

15:48

of Ben Kingin. She was taken

15:50

to another station for booking. And

15:52

there another officer asked Melissa to

15:55

demonstrate how she threw Ben down

15:57

using a baby doll. So show

15:59

us. She repeated the story and

16:01

at 9.27 p.m. video footage captured

16:03

her reenactment. Melissa held the baby

16:05

in front of her, the doll,

16:08

waist high with their back to

16:10

her. She then bent at the

16:12

waist, pulled her arms back, and

16:14

threw the baby toward the floor.

16:16

She aimed the back toward the

16:18

ground with the face pointed toward

16:21

the ceiling as she threw the

16:23

doll. The doll landed on the

16:25

floor and its head hit the

16:27

back of the back of the

16:29

ground. So it's head and back

16:31

hit the ground. Now they have

16:34

video of her doing this and

16:36

it's a dramatic video because you

16:38

see a woman essentially tossing a

16:40

child to the floor, but this

16:42

is all a reenactment. But you

16:44

know damn well this is going

16:47

to be used against her later,

16:49

right? Well, yeah. And if we

16:51

can say nothing more on the

16:53

show, it's that when you give

16:55

any ground to an officer while

16:57

you're being interviewed, they will take

17:00

it and run with it. because

17:02

their focus is to close a

17:04

case. It's to solve a case.

17:06

And if you're giving them anything

17:08

to run with, they're going to

17:10

run with it. They're not going

17:13

to come up with excuses for

17:15

you. So whether you're guilty or

17:17

you're not guilty, you have to

17:19

stay in your ground, especially if

17:21

you're not guilty. You need to

17:23

tell them, this is what I

17:26

know. That's all I know. You

17:28

can't make up stuff, because once

17:30

you do, you enter a different

17:32

world, one that you no longer

17:34

have any protection in. January 17th.

17:37

Melissa's place in the back of

17:39

a squad car and at 916

17:41

in the morning video footage from

17:43

the squad car 91 captures Melissa

17:45

who again denies she hurt been

17:47

and claims she's innocent. This is

17:50

in the squad car. She's just

17:52

saying this. She was questioned from

17:54

930 a.m. until 7 p.m. That's

17:56

9.5 hours. She was left alone

17:58

in the interrogation room for long

18:00

periods of time. She didn't eat

18:03

or use the restroom. And when

18:05

she's in the squad car, she...

18:07

She again is saying she didn't

18:09

hurt then. So we have, most

18:11

of her statement is I had

18:13

nothing to do with this. And

18:16

I think the key part to

18:18

take away from this is when

18:20

you have a false confession, it's

18:22

usually done because the person wants

18:24

out of that room. Whatever they

18:26

have to say, whatever they have

18:29

to do, they're just done being

18:31

in there because they've been in

18:33

there for many hours. And so

18:35

that's kind of a flag here,

18:37

something to look into further. At

18:39

the time of her arrest, Melissa

18:42

Callisinski was 22 years old and

18:44

the youngest of five kids. Melissa

18:46

had an overall IQ score of

18:48

82 and a verbal score of

18:50

74. Now, I don't want to

18:52

make too big a deal out

18:55

of this because I don't think

18:57

a lower IQ makes someone a

18:59

bad or lesser of a person,

19:01

but just know that when you're

19:03

up against detectives and you have

19:05

to communicate with them, this could

19:08

be an issue. Her scores were

19:10

just above the limit of an

19:12

intellectual disability. At times, she had

19:14

trouble putting into words how she

19:16

felt, and she couldn't always understand

19:18

others. She was bullied as a

19:21

child, but found refuge in drawing

19:23

and art. And as far as

19:25

everyone knew, Melissa loved children, and

19:27

she even babysat for a family

19:29

with multiple kids as her first

19:31

job. She was experienced. She was

19:34

very close to her sister Crystal,

19:36

who helped her get the job

19:38

at minisubi. She'd worked as an

19:40

assistant teacher for a few months

19:42

before Ben's death. and investigators found

19:44

no history of reported misbehavior with

19:47

the babies. This is a big

19:49

deal. Obviously if you're being charged

19:51

with the murder of a child,

19:53

a defense needs to take account

19:55

of all the things that are

19:57

going on with their client, including

20:00

how easily they could be manipulated

20:02

in an interrogation room. So it's

20:04

on January 22nd of 2009. The

20:06

Chicago Tribune reported a former coworker

20:08

and parent complained about Melissa to

20:10

the administration at this day. care

20:13

center. Melissa worked at another minisubie

20:15

center in Arlington Heights before she

20:17

was transferred. Now this parent wrote

20:19

a letter to the administration in

20:21

August of 2008 stated Melissa needed

20:24

more training as the classroom was

20:26

chaotic. The parent also claimed she

20:28

left the daycare that same month

20:30

partially because of Melissa's inability to

20:32

control the classroom. Former co-worker at

20:34

Arlington claimed she was concerned when

20:37

she saw Melissa grab a child's

20:39

arm and told an administrator. So

20:41

now they're digging into her background.

20:43

They're finding that she wasn't the

20:45

best at controlling children and she

20:47

might have grabbed one of their

20:50

arms. According to the article, a

20:52

Department of Children and Family Services

20:54

report found the Lincolnshire minisouvee had

20:56

three violations in 2007. The daycare

20:58

failed to notify... DCFS and parents

21:00

of an emergency and failed to

21:03

supervise the children. Two weeks after

21:05

Ben's death, the Lincolnshire location, which

21:07

Ben attended, was shut down by

21:09

the state. A few months later,

21:11

on March 31st, the Chicago Tribune

21:13

reported the Lincolnshire minisubie owner, Judith

21:16

Katz, was arrested for obstruction of

21:18

justice just the day before. Police

21:20

stated, three days after Ben's death,

21:22

Katz told her employees, there were

21:24

two teachers in Ben's room at

21:26

the time of the incident. However,

21:29

detectives were sure. Melissa was in

21:31

the room alone and Katz attempted

21:33

to cover up the violation. Sadly,

21:35

Katz died of heart failure as

21:37

a complication of cervical cancer on

21:39

April 15th 2012, one day before

21:42

she was set to go to

21:44

trial. And before we go on,

21:46

this is a big deal because

21:48

this to me sounds like a

21:50

difference of opinion or differences in

21:52

what are perceived as facts because

21:55

according to Katz, she's saying... No,

21:57

there were two people in the

21:59

room and detectives are saying just

22:01

Melissa was in the room. How

22:03

would they know better than her?

22:05

than the woman that runs the

22:08

daycare who was in the room.

22:10

That's what I don't understand. And

22:12

I don't understand how they can

22:14

just say, oh, not only are

22:16

you wrong, but we're going to

22:18

take you to court over this.

22:21

This report is going back and

22:23

going through all the violations of

22:25

this daycare center. And yeah, they

22:27

have a few violations here. I'm

22:29

sure every single daycare center problem.

22:31

This is a big deal because

22:34

this to me sounds like a

22:36

difference of... opinion or you know

22:38

differences in what are perceived as

22:40

facts because according to cats she's

22:42

saying no there were two people

22:44

in the room and detectives are

22:47

saying just Melissa was in the

22:49

room how would they know better

22:51

than her than the woman that

22:53

runs the daycare who was in

22:55

the room that's what I don't

22:57

understand and I don't understand how

23:00

they can just say oh not

23:02

only are you wrong but we're

23:04

gonna take you to court over

23:06

this. This report is going back

23:08

and going through all the violations

23:10

of this daycare center. And yeah,

23:13

they have a few violations here.

23:15

I'm sure every single daycare center

23:17

probably does, just like every restaurant

23:19

has a health violation. So this

23:21

is making them look, this makes

23:24

the daycare center look totally incompetent.

23:26

It's just reinforcing this, well, Melissa

23:28

could have gotten away with all

23:30

of this abuse because, look, this

23:32

daycare center failed to notify. DCFS

23:34

and all of this stuff. This

23:37

is just chaos here. And so

23:39

they're really painting a bad picture

23:41

of Melissa and this daycare center

23:43

and everyone that's running it. Melissa

23:45

Kalysinski's trial began in November 2011

23:47

and lasted for two weeks. Prosecutors

23:50

argued there was a commotion in

23:52

the room and Melissa, she and

23:54

other staff members, claimed they didn't

23:56

hear any commotion in the room

23:58

that day. No one reported any

24:00

screaming, crying, coming from that room.

24:03

The defense claimed the lethargy frequent

24:05

sleeping and vomiting that occurred on

24:07

January 12th, were all indications of

24:09

a head injury. They argued Ben

24:11

died to his previous injury and

24:13

cumulative headbanging. And Aaron, I don't

24:16

have kids, but I've been around

24:18

all my friends that do have

24:20

kids. I see kids out in

24:22

the wild. And man, they will

24:24

throw themselves back. They will just

24:26

slam their head into walls. They

24:29

will do everything they can to

24:31

hurt themselves. Well, I don't mean

24:33

to. Yeah, they're little ones. They

24:35

don't, you know. I mean, so

24:37

I'm not thinking that this is

24:39

that far-fetched at all. I mean,

24:42

just from my point of view,

24:44

Ben had a pattern of behavior

24:46

where he would throw his head

24:48

back or throw his whole body

24:50

back. I'm like, that doesn't seem

24:52

like they're trying to say, nobody

24:55

hurt this child actually had a

24:57

pattern of behavior. And it makes

24:59

sense to me in my head

25:01

when I'm hearing this. and he

25:03

had an injury prior from this

25:05

exact same behavior or this same

25:08

thing he would do. So it's

25:10

making sense to me, but that's

25:12

all I'll say. Well, the other

25:14

thing to note here is that

25:16

the prosecution starts out by saying

25:18

there was a commotion in the

25:21

room. Well, that's not backed up

25:23

by anybody that worked at this

25:25

daycare. And you could say, well,

25:27

they're all closing ranks, but really?

25:29

I mean, there is no evidence

25:31

as far as we can tell

25:34

that there was commotion. And so

25:36

when they start by saying there

25:38

was a commotion in the room,

25:40

that's something the detectives are saying,

25:42

and that's something the prosecution's saying,

25:44

but that's not what people at

25:47

the daycare are saying. So this

25:49

is already a difference of perception

25:51

or of their beliefs. So it's

25:53

really difficult to understand this. This

25:55

seems like a very difficult trial

25:57

already. And the prosecution, of course,

26:00

they're going to rebut the defense.

26:02

They state the vomiting began January

26:04

12th due to a stomach bug.

26:06

A doctor from the pediatricianetrician's office

26:08

testified. The vomiting and fever were

26:10

unrelated to the bump on the

26:13

head. At the time of the

26:15

October 20th, 29th visit, the doctor

26:17

did not take x-rays because the

26:19

skull didn't appear to be fractured

26:21

and Ben didn't exhibit other symptoms

26:24

associated with a head injury. Furthermore,

26:26

during a brief visit on January

26:28

13th, when Amy went by to

26:30

get a prescription, the doctor observed

26:32

Ben while he played with toys

26:34

and thought he was behaving and

26:37

acting appearing normal. But I think

26:39

this is a little misdirection. I

26:41

could say, yeah, the vomiting and

26:43

fever. could have been a stomach

26:45

bug, absolutely. But him sleeping all

26:47

the time, all these other things,

26:50

those kind of bridge the gap

26:52

of stomach bug and a concussion

26:54

or a head injury. So I

26:56

don't know if anyone would have

26:58

said, oh, he had a fever

27:00

because he hit his head, but

27:03

they're saying he had all of

27:05

these symptoms and it was probably

27:07

from a prior injury. So this

27:09

is the prosecution doing a very

27:11

good job. rebuttaling because they're saying

27:13

no he had a stomach bug

27:16

and we have proof he had

27:18

a stomach bug so this prior

27:20

injury all are talking about didn't

27:22

happen so you're just making it

27:24

up. There were photographs of Ben's

27:26

skull from the autopsy showing a

27:29

small fracture on the outside and

27:31

inside of the skull and Dr.

27:33

Choi testified he saw a visible

27:35

skull fracture and fresh blood beneath

27:37

Ben's scalp. He was talking about

27:39

a subdural hematoma. And another forensic

27:42

pathologist, Dr. Manuel Montes, testified for

27:44

the state and supported Dr. Choi's

27:46

findings. He testified that he examined

27:48

Ben's skull the day after the

27:50

initial autopsy and he felt the

27:52

fracture himself. He removed his gloves

27:55

and could feel the ridges of

27:57

the fracture inside the skull as

27:59

he moved the bones. He believed

28:01

the fracture was recent because it

28:03

wasn't sticky, which would have indicated

28:05

healing had been taking place. So

28:08

this is a big deal because

28:10

they're showing... that something did happen

28:12

to this child. It wasn't the

28:14

child himself because this injury would

28:16

be too significant. It would mean

28:18

it's more likely that Melissa... the

28:21

child down. That's what they're saying,

28:23

the prosecution. What did they find?

28:25

Well, it's November 16th of 2011.

28:27

The jury deliberated for seven hours

28:29

and they returned with a guilty

28:31

verdict of first-degree murder. Now, that's

28:34

pretty harsh because I would just

28:36

assume first degree means you planned

28:38

it, you did it with a

28:40

felony, a lot of different other

28:42

factors here. I would assume second

28:44

degree or manslaughter, but no, they

28:47

come back with a first degree

28:49

murder verdict and she's guilty and

28:51

I'm kind of shocked by that

28:53

because even if she had thrown

28:55

this child to the ground in

28:57

a fit of rage, to me

29:00

that's not first degree. But it's

29:02

a child and this is a

29:04

very charged and emotional case. So

29:06

this is how the jury finds.

29:08

Three months later, February 23rd of

29:11

2012. She is sentenced to 31

29:13

years in prison. Yeah, and so

29:15

that's where it stood until four

29:17

years later, in June of 2015,

29:19

Paul Kalyzinsky, Melissa's dad, received an

29:21

anonymous tip that there were x-rays

29:24

of Ben Kingen that weren't provided

29:26

in court. Melissa's defense team was

29:28

provided a CD containing x-rays in

29:30

September 2011, a little over a

29:32

month before a trial began. The

29:34

state informed the court... The images

29:37

were not part of discovery sooner

29:39

due to a confusion in the

29:41

coroner's office. The images provided by

29:43

the state were dark and unclear.

29:45

After the tip, Paul Kaleozinsky called

29:47

the New Lake County coroner, Dr.

29:50

Thomas Rudd, and told him about

29:52

these new x-rays. Well, new to

29:54

them. And so this call prompted

29:56

Dr. Rudd to look into the

29:58

situation, the physical file from Benz

30:00

Autops, he didn't have images. And

30:03

so he requested them from the

30:05

deputy coroner. When he got the

30:07

file he looked through the images

30:09

and he was shocked. He said

30:11

he saw no evidence of a

30:13

skull fracture in the x-rays. So

30:16

he started showing these images to

30:18

other pathologists and radiologists and they

30:20

all agreed. They didn't see a

30:22

skull fracture. So this directly contradicted

30:24

Dr. Choi's testimony and the prosecution's

30:26

case during the trial where he's

30:29

saying there was a severe skull

30:31

fracture and it was fresh so

30:33

it had just been caused right

30:35

before they took him to the

30:37

hospital. Moreover... There were three x-ray

30:39

images, one of Ben's skull, a

30:42

second of his upper body, and

30:44

a third of his lower body.

30:46

These additional x-rays of the torso

30:48

and upper and lower extremities lacked

30:50

evidence of any type of abuse,

30:52

didn't have any bruises on him,

30:55

didn't have any broken bones. Obviously,

30:57

you don't see bruises in the

30:59

x-rays. The x-rays didn't show any

31:01

evidence of spinal or rib injuries.

31:03

He didn't have any cuts, scrapes,

31:05

bruises. And in Dr. Choi's initial

31:08

autopsy report, he only noted one

31:10

bruise on Ben's upper arm. So

31:12

according to Dr. Rudd, if Melissa

31:14

had thrown Ben as stated in

31:16

her confession and video, there would

31:18

have been other indicators and injuries

31:21

that would have happened or possibly

31:23

appeared on these x-rays. In an

31:25

interview with 48 hours, Dr. Rudd

31:27

stated it was impossible for Ben

31:29

to have a severe skull fracture,

31:31

a severe skull fracture. and have

31:34

no wound on his scalp. I

31:36

think that's pretty telling. Yeah, Dr.

31:38

Rudd didn't see a skull fracture,

31:40

but he did note Ben had

31:42

an abnormally large head. He described

31:44

the shape as a traditional light

31:47

bulb, very round, and not the

31:49

normal shape of a 16-month-old head.

31:51

Children of Ben's age normally have

31:53

an oblong-shaped head, and the rounded

31:55

shape was a sign of brain

31:57

swelling. During a routine checkup in

32:00

December of 2008, When Ben was

32:02

15 months old, his head circumference

32:04

measured in the 75th percentile. That's

32:06

an increase. from previous appointments where

32:08

he landed in the 50th percentile.

32:11

The doctor was not concerned and

32:13

considered this a healthy rate of

32:15

growth. However, at his autopsy just

32:17

a month and a half later,

32:19

his head circumference had increased to

32:21

the 95th percentile. So are we

32:24

assuming that this is from swelling

32:26

from a previous injury? Is that

32:28

kind of what they're indicating here?

32:30

That's what we would take away

32:32

from this, yes. So, you know,

32:34

they're using samples taken during the

32:37

original autopsy performed by Dr. Choi

32:39

and Dr. Rudd found a membrane

32:41

on Ben's brain. In other terms,

32:43

a scab. This is an indication

32:45

of scar tissue from an old

32:47

injury. And when examined under a

32:50

microscope, Dr. Rudd found iron in

32:52

Ben's brain. They appeared as microscopic

32:54

blue dots among a mass of

32:56

pink. So Dr. Rudd noted he

32:58

could see the evidence with his

33:00

naked eye on a slide before

33:03

placing them under a microscope. So

33:05

he's saying he had a prior

33:07

injury, it appears that he had

33:09

scar tissue and iron or blood

33:11

droplets in here. He's not saying

33:13

blood droplets because it's more of

33:16

a scientific technical thing, but he's

33:18

saying this is what I'm finding.

33:20

So there obviously was a prior

33:22

injury. Dr. Rudd

33:24

obviously is finding things here that

33:26

are alarming, so he goes for

33:29

a second opinion from Dr. Nancy

33:31

Jones, who's a forensic pathologist. She's

33:33

performed over 10,000 autopsies. She agreed

33:35

with Dr. Rudd's findings. White blood

33:37

cells that contained iron particles were

33:39

absorbed and formed the men brain

33:41

or scab that Dr. Rudd discovered.

33:44

Dr. Jones estimated the entry was

33:46

about two to three months old,

33:48

and Ben had suffered at least

33:50

one previous subdural hemorrhage. Meaning, Ben

33:52

suffered from a brain bleed before

33:54

his death on January 14, 2009,

33:56

and she noted that Ben had

33:59

symptoms. of a head injury two

34:01

days before his death when he

34:03

repeatedly vomited and was lethargic.

34:05

So again, this is important

34:08

because if you say that someone hurt

34:10

this child and the child died as

34:12

a result of it and you have

34:14

the fracture in the skull to prove

34:16

it, but that fracture doesn't exist, and

34:18

the child was showing symptoms days before

34:21

their death, then you can no

34:23

longer really say with confidence

34:25

that Melissa Callisinskii must have

34:27

thrown him down on that

34:29

date. and then he died. That's what

34:31

we're getting at here, because you

34:33

wouldn't see a scar, you wouldn't see some

34:36

of the other evidence you're seeing

34:38

here, and then of course, where is this

34:40

fracture at? This fracture that they

34:42

claim they could feel with their own hand

34:44

as they examined his head. The old

34:46

injury was significant, about

34:48

four inches by four inches,

34:51

and was exacerbated by Ben's

34:53

frequent headbanging. What would have

34:55

been a minor entry on

34:57

January 14 became significant damage.

34:59

Ben could have died any time he

35:01

threw himself down or bumped his head,

35:04

it wouldn't take excessive force to

35:06

cause his death. So when Ben

35:08

hit his head on January 14th,

35:11

the fluid of that pre-existing injury

35:13

added pressure on the already swollen

35:15

brain, pushing the brain down further,

35:17

and then shut down his ability

35:20

to breathe. That's scary. You wouldn't

35:22

think a couple bumps on the

35:24

head could do that, but again,

35:27

these were... significant enough to cause

35:29

this problem. So they go and they

35:31

talk to Dr. Choi, because he's

35:33

the one that said, oh, there's

35:35

this fracture here. We know what

35:37

happened. It's a murder. An assigned

35:40

affidavit, Dr. Choi admitted

35:42

to his error. He said, in

35:44

my report and testimony,

35:46

I missed that Benjamin had

35:48

suffered an old injury

35:50

that predated January 14,

35:53

2009. However, The new findings did

35:55

not change his overall opinion. He

35:57

still asserted Ben died of a

35:59

traumatic. head injury due to

36:01

force, he could not have

36:03

exerted himself. The old injury was

36:06

not of concern in the cause

36:08

of death. This is a change.

36:10

Yeah, this is a change.

36:13

And in July 2015, Dr.

36:15

Rudd reclassified Ben's death from

36:17

homicide to undetermined with the

36:19

permission of the state of

36:22

Illinois. He concluded the x-rays

36:24

provided new evidence in Ben's

36:26

case, and that Ben didn't

36:28

die. from the skull fracture,

36:30

but from a long-term head

36:32

injury. The state maintained the injuries

36:34

still could have been caused by

36:36

Melissa. Ben's parents also believed Melissa

36:39

had done this and is guilty. But

36:41

I think at this point, Aaron, we're

36:43

looking at prosecution, said there was

36:45

a commotion in the room, there

36:47

wasn't one, prosecution, and investigators

36:50

are saying Melissa was the only one

36:52

in the room when this happened, when

36:54

it's possible, there was a couple people

36:56

in the room in the room, Also,

36:58

we have Crystal who said

37:01

she witnessed Ben hurting himself

37:03

and then Melissa saying she

37:05

came across him when he's

37:08

unresponsive. Full stop? To me, that's

37:10

benefit of the doubt. I don't

37:12

think you can find somebody

37:14

guilty when you don't have

37:16

anything backed up prior to

37:18

this incident. You're getting

37:21

all the facts wrong and

37:23

I'm talking about the prosecution.

37:25

Before we even get to...

37:28

the medical examiner and the

37:30

reclassification of his cause of

37:32

death, I don't understand how

37:34

anyone could have found her

37:36

guilty beyond a reasonable doubt with

37:39

that information. So obviously, Melissa's

37:41

going to appeal, right?

37:43

Yeah, and she had appealed her

37:45

conviction before these new findings, these

37:47

new x-rays, well new to them.

37:49

And so she was going to appeal

37:52

again because now this is different.

37:54

Now she has even more to

37:56

run with here. and during

37:58

a 48-hour interview. Melissa

38:00

Callisinski's new attorney, Kathleen Zelner, claimed

38:02

that clear x-ray evidence was not

38:04

only withheld, but tampered with. Zelner

38:06

stated that state manipulated the images

38:09

and withheld the clear ones, because

38:11

remember, when they had those other

38:13

images, they were very dark. These

38:15

newer images, or I guess the

38:17

images they hadn't known of before,

38:19

that were given to them, well,

38:21

those were clear. They weren't dark.

38:24

According to Kathleen Zelner, this is

38:26

on purpose. And that's because Lake

38:28

County had already lost millions of

38:30

dollars in wrongful conviction cases that

38:32

have been overturned. And with holding

38:34

evidence is a Brady violation if

38:36

proven can overturn a conviction. So

38:39

according to Zelner, the phone call

38:41

to Paul about a second set

38:43

of x-rays had to come from

38:45

someone with inside knowledge. She claimed

38:47

that this supported her theory that

38:49

the x-rays were intentionally withheld from

38:52

the defense in 2011 so they

38:54

couldn't really use them. The

38:57

defense should have been provided all

38:59

of the x-rays, not just certain

39:01

ones. So she's not wrong. This

39:03

is a Brady violation. You know

39:05

how this bothers me? I know

39:07

this is not going to be

39:10

exactly the same thing, but if

39:12

you ever ordered food from a

39:14

restaurant and they bring your food

39:16

out and it's burnt, like really

39:18

badly burnt, and you wonder, why

39:20

did you bother bringing this to

39:23

me? This isn't something I can

39:25

use. And the same thing with

39:27

the x-rays, if you're giving... dark

39:29

x-rays where you can't really make

39:31

out what's going on. We have

39:34

come to expect so little Justin.

39:36

They'll say, oh, these people aren't

39:38

as experienced as investigators or their

39:40

sound equipment wasn't very good. They

39:42

were using an old camera. That's

39:44

from an old phone to take

39:47

the pictures. They've got to work

39:49

with what they have. Not good

39:51

enough because apparently there were good

39:53

x-rays available. They just didn't turn

39:55

them over. I mean, how do

39:58

you prove it was done on

40:00

purpose? Where is the empathy here

40:02

for someone who's suffered a conviction

40:04

and being blamed for a horrible

40:06

death when there's evidence now that,

40:08

wait a minute. Maybe they misjudged

40:11

this all. Why don't they actually

40:13

look at it as new evidence?

40:15

Well, you know what they're going

40:17

to do. Just like Dr. Choi's

40:19

statement, he put out, he's like,

40:21

well, I made a mistake. There

40:24

was a prior injury, but I

40:26

still think Melissa did this. It's

40:28

like, what? You're saying that you

40:30

got your entire autopsy wrong, essentially,

40:32

but you're still doubling down that

40:35

Melissa caused this injury. Okay, got

40:37

it. Obviously. This isn't flying with

40:39

Melissa's defense team, and in June

40:41

of 2015, they filed petition for

40:43

a new trial. A year later,

40:45

Judge Daniel B. Shane's, the same

40:48

judge who presided over the 2011

40:50

trial, granted an evidentiary hearing. The

40:52

hearing allowed new testimony based on

40:54

the newly discovered evidence. This was

40:56

one step closer to a new

40:58

trial, because this is what you

41:01

have to do. And in September

41:03

of 2016, the judge heard three

41:05

days of testimony from opposing expert

41:07

witnesses. And this is where at

41:09

least there's a judge looking at

41:12

this because I feel like a

41:14

lot of jury members can be

41:16

swayed by expert witnesses just based

41:18

on charisma alone. And if your

41:20

expert witness can connect with the

41:22

jury member better than the other

41:25

guy, science facts and evidence be

41:27

damned. And so we're hearing from

41:29

the defense and the prosecutor and

41:31

they're going over these x-rays, they're

41:33

going over all this medical information

41:35

and they're trying to deny the

41:38

other person sources and deny the

41:40

other person is correct in their

41:42

findings and this is why cases

41:44

can go right or wrong depending

41:46

on how much money you have

41:49

for an expert witness. There's one

41:51

thing that will forever change the

41:53

way you sleep. And it's the

41:55

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wonder E15. Exclusions apply. C-site for

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details. So Melissa's attorney back in

42:21

2011 was Paul DeLuca and he

42:23

testified that he never saw a

42:26

clear x-rays before the trial. He

42:28

did say that the state gave

42:30

him a CD of images, but

42:32

those images were dark and unclear.

42:34

The state said, look, we gave

42:36

you a CD of images, along

42:39

with software, so you could brighten

42:41

them. How ludicrous is this? I

42:43

mean, you're literally saying, well, we

42:45

could have brightened these and then

42:47

given them to you, but we

42:50

left you to do the work,

42:52

you know? This makes no sense.

42:54

So, Daluka said he wasn't able

42:56

to get the software to work.

42:58

And the state called a witness

43:00

who demonstrated with ease how to

43:03

brighten the images with a few

43:05

clicks. The defense called their own

43:07

technical expert who testified the images

43:09

could have been easily manipulated with

43:11

software like Photoshop. Again though, you're

43:13

leaving it up to the attorney

43:16

who's got to build a whole

43:18

case to fix some images? This

43:20

should have been done before he

43:22

got them. My opinion. I don't

43:24

know what the audience thinks, but

43:27

I'd like to hear, do you

43:29

think this is okay? But if

43:31

the raw files aren't exactly usable

43:33

without some manipulation, then you need

43:35

to manipulate them. You need to

43:37

make it clear to everybody looking

43:40

at this x-ray where the fracture

43:42

is. And if you're giving them

43:44

the worst quality image possible and

43:46

they might have ran it through

43:48

a photocopier a couple times just

43:51

to make sure, I mean, come

43:53

on. It bothers me because if

43:55

you are going to give somebody

43:57

a photo of something. to prove

43:59

guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, it

44:01

should be clear as day, not

44:04

as mud. Yeah, what are you

44:06

hiding? So... So obviously you have

44:08

opposing viewpoints here. The state's experts

44:10

are saying Ben did have a

44:12

previous injury, but it's not related

44:14

to his death. They also agree

44:17

with Dr. Choi's original finding that

44:19

Ben had a skull fracture that

44:21

wasn't visible in x-rays. The defense

44:23

called on Dr. Robert Zimmerman. He

44:25

was at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.

44:28

He was the chief of pediatric

44:30

neurodiology and chief of pediatric magnetic

44:32

imaging. He's world-renowned in the world

44:34

of brain imaging. He didn't see

44:36

a fracture in the imaging, and

44:38

he stated, if the skull fracture

44:41

was seen with the naked eye,

44:43

it would be seen on the

44:45

x-rays as well. I mean, why

44:47

do we even use x-rays if

44:49

everyone can see everything, right? This

44:51

implied that the fracture was not

44:54

present or as severe as depicted

44:56

by other experts in the original

44:58

trial or this hearing. I agree

45:00

if you can see it. then

45:02

an x-ray is going to pick

45:05

it up because I've taken my

45:07

mom and I've taken other friends

45:09

and for issues they've had and

45:11

they've had tiny hairline fractures that

45:13

you would never know about unless

45:15

you had an x-ray. So something's

45:18

visible to the naked eye then

45:20

it's going to show up on

45:22

an x-ray. There was some unexpected

45:24

testimony from Paul Foreman. He served

45:26

as the deputy coroner at the

45:28

time of Ben's death and original

45:31

finding that Ben had a skull

45:33

fracture. that wasn't visible in x-rays.

45:35

The defense called on Dr. Robert

45:37

Zimmerman. He was at Children's Hospital

45:39

of Philadelphia. He was the chief

45:42

of pediatric neurodiology and chief of

45:44

pediatric magnetic imaging. He's world-renowned in

45:46

the world of brain imaging. He

45:48

didn't see a fracture in the

45:50

imaging and he stated if the

45:52

skull fracture implied that the fracture

45:55

was not present or as severe

45:57

as depicted by other experts in

45:59

the original trial. or this hearing.

46:01

I agree if if you can

46:03

see it then an x-ray is

46:06

going to pick it up because

46:08

I've taken my mom and I've

46:10

taken other friends and for issues

46:12

they've had and they've had tiny

46:14

hairline fractures that you would never

46:16

know about unless you had an

46:19

ex until the naked eye then

46:21

it's going to show up on

46:23

an x-ray. There was some unexpected

46:25

testimony from Paul Foreman. He served

46:27

as the deputy coroner at the

46:29

time of Ben's death and autopsy.

46:32

He took the x-ray images in

46:34

question on January 15th during the

46:36

first autopsy. Though there were a

46:38

total of three images on the

46:40

computer, he testified he took five

46:43

images. He claimed he was present

46:45

for the second autopsy on January

46:47

16th, and Dr. Montes could not

46:49

have examined Ben's skull because he

46:51

closed and sutured Ben's head on

46:53

January 15th. In a 48-hour interview,

46:56

Foreman reasserted all of his testimony

46:58

and claimed Montes never entered the

47:00

autopsy room. and only examined Ben's

47:02

injuries from files and photos. Wow,

47:04

he took five images but they're

47:06

only shown three and he says

47:09

that there wasn't any other examination

47:11

done of the child except from

47:13

files and photos. Yet this is

47:15

in complete contradiction of what the

47:17

prosecution and initial autopsy reports are

47:20

saying, right? Yeah, you think this

47:22

would be stunning information information. This

47:24

is the mic drop part, right?

47:26

You would think. Officer David Thomas

47:28

testified on behalf of the prosecution

47:30

and refuted Forman's testimony. Thomas was

47:33

also present for the January 16th

47:35

autopsy. He confirmed a photograph he

47:37

was shown from the autopsy accurately

47:39

depicting Ben's condition when he entered

47:41

the room. The photo showed Ben

47:44

lying on the table and the

47:46

top of the skull was absent.

47:48

Thomas added the skull was placed

47:50

back on for them to do

47:52

the experiments that Dr. Choi performed.

47:54

The January 16th autopsy was the

47:57

same day Melissa was interrogated and

47:59

eventually confessed and reenacted how she

48:01

threw Ben. Thomas described how Foreman

48:03

used white twine to stitch the

48:05

head closed. Additional photographs from the

48:07

autopsy corroborated this statement. So now

48:10

we have two people who have

48:12

completely different viewpoints, completely different testimonies.

48:14

Now he does have some photos

48:16

and he's talking about dates here.

48:18

So Officer David Thomas. might be

48:21

slightly more credible because he has

48:23

things showing there, but I don't

48:25

know. It's who do you believe

48:27

and it's up to a judge

48:29

now. September 30th 2016, Judge Shains

48:31

denied Melissa a new trial because

48:34

Judge Shains didn't find Foreman's testimony

48:36

as credible. The coroner's computer revealed

48:38

Foreman only took three x-rays, yet

48:40

he testified he took five, and

48:42

he told officers during his initial

48:44

interview, he only took two. The

48:47

judge found the defense had access

48:49

to the clear images because the

48:51

software was included on the CD.

48:53

Now before we go on with

48:55

that, I want to say what

48:58

CD, what software, what computer, what

49:00

operating system, because was this Apple,

49:02

was this Windows, was this Windows,

49:04

right? Because a lot of times

49:06

you can't use the same software

49:08

on both. I mean they're completely

49:11

different operating systems. So unless they

49:13

included different software on there that

49:15

could be used depending on what

49:17

kind of computer you had, this

49:19

could be a limitation. Sort of

49:22

in the prosecution's defense, they're saying

49:24

you're provided a CD with software.

49:26

Now, if you had trouble with

49:28

it, you could have told us,

49:30

and we would have maybe helped

49:32

you. But the prosecution's saying, you

49:35

didn't even try, and you're just

49:37

saying that we didn't give you

49:39

the right information. And that's what

49:41

the judge found and agreed with.

49:43

The judge is saying, you could

49:45

have done more here. I mean,

49:48

you could have sought outside help,

49:50

get someone to help you with

49:52

the images. But it just didn't

49:54

happen. Obviously, Kathleen Selner appealed Judge

49:56

Shane's ruling on April 18th. 2018,

49:59

Zelner presented oral arguments to the

50:01

Illinois Court of Appeals for a

50:03

new trial. And these oral arguments

50:05

included the same sentiments as the

50:07

evidentiary hearing. The appeals court cited

50:09

in favor of Judge Shane's ruling

50:12

and affirmed Melissa's conviction. So this

50:14

is interesting. It's like Zelner saying,

50:16

no, no, no, that was the

50:18

wrong ruling. We're going to do

50:20

this again. But that court just

50:22

sided with the prior court. That

50:25

happens all the time. And I

50:27

feel like if you don't bring

50:29

anything else to this, if you

50:31

don't bring another type of argument,

50:33

how are they going to find

50:36

it differently? So because they affirmed

50:38

the conviction, now you have the

50:40

Illinois Supreme Court in September of

50:42

2018, denying Melissa's petition for leave

50:44

to appeal. Basically they're saying we're

50:46

declining to consider your appeal at

50:49

the state Supreme Court level. So

50:51

now she's left with, well, I

50:53

guess the federal courts. Again, it's

50:55

not just these two expert witnesses

50:57

claiming the other one's wrong. There's

50:59

a lot more issues with this

51:02

case than just that. And it

51:04

just seems like that was the

51:06

strongest arguments they had, so that

51:08

was what the appeal was based

51:10

on. But as a whole, I'm

51:13

thinking there's other issues with the

51:15

original trial. And it seems that

51:17

those things weren't the crux. the

51:19

main thrust of this consideration of

51:21

denying this appeal. And again, it's

51:23

we see it every day and

51:26

I just think, man, I think

51:28

that the discrepancies in the prosecution's

51:30

initial trial should have been considered

51:32

also because I think if you

51:34

take the totality of it all

51:37

and not just, oh, was there

51:39

three or five x-rays, oh, we

51:41

put the software on there, we

51:43

didn't put the software on there.

51:45

I mean... That's what somebody's life

51:47

hinges on? Okay. Well, I think

51:50

what a hinges on is, and

51:52

it seems to be, a legal

51:54

thing, if you... found guilty, then

51:56

you're guilty. And if you're saying

51:58

that you have x-rays that prove

52:00

that there wasn't a fracture, it's

52:03

almost like they're saying, yeah, possible,

52:05

but she was found guilty. So

52:07

we're moving on. And you can't

52:09

say it's new evidence because those

52:11

x-rays were given to her defense

52:14

team back when. And just because

52:16

they were dark and you couldn't

52:18

read them properly doesn't mean that

52:20

we have anything owed to you.

52:22

So she's guilty. Even if you

52:24

can say scientifically that this looks

52:27

like the poor child had a

52:29

prior injury and that's what caused

52:31

all this to happen, well they

52:33

don't care because she was found

52:35

guilty and it's over. Let's talk

52:37

about what's happened since because you

52:40

know the sad thing is is

52:42

a child did die, Benjamin Kingen

52:44

died, and in March 2010 Amy

52:46

and Andy King and settled a

52:48

civil suit against minisubi daycare. They

52:51

were awarded $2 million. That was

52:53

the maximum under the daycare's insurance

52:55

policy. And the family spoke to

52:57

reporters after court rulings, but mostly

52:59

they declined interviews. Ben's tombstone reads,

53:01

Our angel in heaven, you were

53:04

taken from us before your time.

53:06

Your life was the most special

53:08

gift we could receive. We will

53:10

always love you, Benny. Melissa remains

53:12

in prison and continues to fight

53:15

for a new trial, but... I

53:17

do want to say that it

53:19

is unfortunate that a child died

53:21

and I can't blame the parents

53:23

for why they see things the

53:25

way they do because they have

53:28

to trust law enforcement to get

53:30

to the bottom of what happened.

53:32

And probably in their minds they

53:34

see this as they worked really

53:36

hard on the case, they got

53:38

Melissa to confess and then she

53:41

had second thoughts about confessing and

53:43

worked to try and throw out

53:45

those confessions, but probably in their

53:47

minds why would she confess if

53:49

she didn't do it if she

53:52

didn't do it. And so they

53:54

probably arrest these knowing they got

53:56

a conviction and there was some

53:58

justice for their child. Yeah,

54:01

it's as simple as that is our

54:03

child's dead. He was in the care

54:05

of this child daycare and the police,

54:07

the investigators, the prosecution, got a guilty

54:10

verdict. That's it. It's as simple as

54:12

that. I understand why they feel that

54:14

way, but you have to be able

54:16

to sit back and look at this

54:19

case with an open eye for all

54:21

the things that were said, done, things

54:23

that went wrong. And I guess that's

54:25

where I just think it was a

54:28

tragic accident and nothing here really adds

54:30

up to me a homicide. At most

54:32

it would be a manslaughter charge if

54:34

I were to actually for sake of

54:36

argument agree that Melissa had thrown this

54:39

child to the ground. Yeah, so a

54:41

very unfortunate case. I'd like to hear

54:43

from everyone what you think happened here.

54:45

Do you think it's odd that there

54:48

are no other injuries to explain this?

54:50

As we said... if there's a skull

54:52

fracture there should be other injuries, especially

54:54

if the child was thrown to the

54:57

ground, you think there'd be bruising all

54:59

over. And they just didn't find that.

55:01

And also I'd like to know when

55:03

it comes down to it, like I

55:05

described, if there's a conviction, then there

55:08

is no questioning how they got to

55:10

that conviction? Because it seems to me,

55:12

at least in this case, that the

55:14

prosecution wasn't really able to back up

55:17

their theory. I mean, what they had

55:19

to do is basically say that the

55:21

daycare staff lied to them. about who

55:23

was in the room at the time

55:26

and how things went down. And then

55:28

they also had to say, well, someone

55:30

felt the fracture. They felt it. So

55:32

they know it was there, even if

55:35

it didn't show up on x-rays. Is

55:37

that really something that you can buy?

55:39

So let us know. You can reply

55:41

to us on our social media. You

55:43

can message or email us on our

55:46

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56:48

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56:50

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