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2:29

How you doing tonight Aaron? I'm

2:31

doing fine Justin. How are you?

2:33

I'm doing good. So tonight you

2:36

interviewed somebody but before we get

2:38

to that we have a couple

2:40

of announcements I'm gonna be at

2:43

advocacy con in Indianapolis Indiana March

2:45

28th through the 30th go out

2:47

to advocacy con.com and get your

2:50

tickets use code Gen Y10 Also,

2:52

as most of you know, Aaron

2:54

and I are going to be

2:56

at CrimeCon. You're in the States

2:59

and in London. London CrimeCon is

3:01

June 7th through the 8th, and

3:03

CrimeCon Denver is September 5th through

3:05

the 7th. Use code Gen Y

3:07

to get your tickets. All right,

3:09

Aaron, I'll let you do your

3:11

interview. All right, joining me on

3:14

this episode of Generation Y is producer

3:16

Michael Bayer, who just recently

3:18

started true case films. which

3:21

I'm really excited about given

3:23

that I've now watched, vanished,

3:25

the Heather Elvis case. So

3:28

Michael, you've been a producer,

3:30

when did you get your start

3:32

in that? Well, first off, thanks

3:34

a lot for having me on

3:36

Aaron and I really appreciate the

3:38

kind words about the series. You

3:41

know, just before we started, you

3:43

were talking about how, you know,

3:45

you enjoyed it and, you know,

3:47

everything like that. But basically I

3:50

started in production around 2009 around

3:52

that time. So one of the

3:54

first things I did is I

3:57

started a business and I did

3:59

explainer videos. before This

18:11

year, I'm treating myself to the

18:13

Lux upgrades I deserve, with quince

18:15

high-quality travel essentials at fair prices.

18:18

Like lightweight shirts and shorts from

18:20

$30, pants for any occasion, and

18:22

comfortable lounge sets, the premium luggage

18:25

option Yeah,

22:00

I think it's amazing they've been able to

22:02

go from their suspects in the public's

22:04

eyes to now it's clear that they're

22:06

not involved at all in what happened

22:09

and they're trying to say, hey, be

22:11

aware of this, this is what happens,

22:13

and how can we help other people?

22:15

You know, but that's the thing about

22:18

a case like this. I think so

22:20

many people want to get involved and

22:22

not everyone understands the power of their

22:24

words or how much harm they can

22:26

do by getting involved, you know?

22:28

And I think any one of us could learn

22:31

a lesson here, but it's just, here

22:33

it is, here's the story, pay attention

22:35

to it, understand what you can take

22:37

from it. In other words, if you're

22:39

gonna chime in, why don't you start with,

22:42

I feel for the family? I hope Heather

22:44

is found. I mean, at the very least,

22:46

at this point, they want answers, and

22:48

why can't we all be pushing in

22:50

that direction instead of looking to make

22:52

a villain or create a new narrative

22:55

about, oh, you know, her dad and her

22:57

had a terrible relationship, whatever the lie

22:59

was. And, you know, obviously if they

23:01

watched the documentary series, they'll see

23:03

how that all happened. There are

23:05

reasons for it, you know. So it's

23:07

not like these people just invented it,

23:09

but it starts somewhere as a little

23:11

seed, and instead of recognizing it for

23:14

what it was, they just jump completely

23:16

off into left field, and they start

23:18

with the conspiracy theories. So going with

23:20

that. How is it for you because

23:22

you know this case inside inside out?

23:24

What was it like having to read

23:26

or see all of this, you know,

23:28

the conspiracy theories and stuff? What was

23:31

that like for you? Is that really

23:33

uncomfortable? Or do you just sort of

23:35

understand it? You know, they're powerful.

23:37

Like, I mean, when people, when

23:40

you start seeing people reiterate things

23:42

online, but one thing I think

23:44

that Tammy Moore was very involved

23:46

in this, and she was very

23:48

smart in a way in regards to... The police

23:50

aren't going to put a lot of this information

23:53

out in the beginning of an investigation, so she

23:55

kind of had a one way, when you're just

23:57

putting things out and the other side's not putting

23:59

anything out, that... And that's when people are, you

24:01

know, there's no other side yet because

24:03

the police and the DA's office and

24:05

everyone else, they're not going to go

24:07

and put everything online when they're when

24:09

they need that stuff for a trial.

24:12

You know, so she had access to

24:14

the files of the case. So you

24:16

get discovery and she, you know, she

24:18

can go through and say, hey, look,

24:20

look at this police investigation video right

24:22

here, look what this person said. You

24:24

can edit it, you can cut things.

24:26

I mean, she was clever in that.

24:28

meet at the trolls and giving them

24:30

more and more to go off. And

24:32

it just kind of swirmed up. I

24:34

mean, I'll give her credit on that,

24:36

you know, where she was very creative

24:38

in regards to how she was able

24:40

to use that information in order to

24:42

get a lot of these things going.

24:45

Yeah, but I do think it exposed

24:47

her eventually because what happens is instead

24:49

of leaving things a mystery, or I

24:51

know at some point she was trying

24:53

to say that, oh, well, I have

24:55

a lover too, it wasn't about him

24:57

cheating on me. It was because he

24:59

didn't tell me. But you know, when

25:01

you find out he's being handcuffed to

25:03

the bed every night, you know, if

25:05

you find out that she's posting stuff

25:07

and manipulating things and trying to fill

25:09

that void that happens at the beginning

25:11

of a case, and you see her

25:13

for what she truly is. Right. It

25:15

does catch up with you in the

25:18

end. But in the beginning, I think

25:20

that's how a lot of those rumors

25:22

got going is because there wasn't anything

25:24

else. It was hard to combat it.

25:26

It was hard to combat it. And,

25:28

you know, the eldest family did a

25:30

good job of getting out, you know,

25:32

you know, you know, you know, you

25:34

know, you know, you know, you know,

25:36

And it's really insane when a case

25:38

catches on like this with getting so

25:40

much media attention, how you almost have

25:42

to run like a PR campaign just

25:44

to make sure, you know, like these

25:46

rumors get going and these, you know,

25:48

everything else and you have to stay

25:51

up on top of it. It's tough.

25:53

And you want the attention, but you

25:55

know, there's the knife cuts both ways.

25:57

And even, you know, I was talking

25:59

to Terry in the end. I'm like,

26:01

was, was, was social media media good.

26:03

You know, so I think he was

26:05

going on about how we're able to

26:07

mobilize a lot of people. We're able

26:09

to bring attention so the government... would

26:11

pay attention to the case and bring

26:13

assets in to help, you know, look

26:15

and search. There's always the court of

26:17

public opinion too. I mean, as much

26:19

as a jury is going to say,

26:21

hey, look, you know what, I can

26:24

be fair and impartial. But when you're

26:26

hearing all this stuff on the news

26:28

all the time, it's there. You know,

26:30

how do you avoid it? So it's

26:32

an important part of a case. You

26:34

know, like it, the media plays a

26:36

huge role. Like you said, prosecutors, police,

26:38

they try to keep things close to

26:40

the vest until they're ready to show

26:42

you. And a good example I always

26:44

like to bring up is the Ella

26:46

Murdock case out of South Carolina because

26:48

a lot of people are saying, oh

26:50

they don't have enough or there's this

26:52

or that. When you listen though to

26:54

the closing remarks, they buried them. And

26:57

that's just the beauty of a trial

26:59

and I think I get that too

27:01

from you. It's like when you watch

27:03

a good trial and you have good

27:05

attorneys. It becomes fascinating theater. I hate

27:07

to put it that way because this

27:09

is real life. There are things at

27:11

stake, but it really grabs our attention

27:13

and we follow every word, every testimony.

27:15

And by the end of it, it's,

27:17

to me, I've never seen anything like

27:19

it. I think a really powerful trial

27:21

that everyone's following, it just takes over.

27:23

And, you know, every so many minutes,

27:25

I'm popping online to check the results,

27:27

you know, what was the testimony today,

27:30

if I don't have time to watch

27:32

the trial. Obviously your brother is an

27:34

attorney. Has he been able to give

27:36

you feedback on things too just because

27:38

of his experience? Absolutely. So when we

27:40

were going through the case and the

27:42

whole trial, I mean, you know, he

27:44

watched it too. I watched three times

27:46

because like, Sidney Moore had one mistrial

27:48

and then he was tried again and

27:50

then Tammy had her trial, you know,

27:52

and it got to the point where

27:54

I was like watching the bond hearing,

27:56

I'm like, you get so into the

27:58

story. You know, going back to what

28:00

you're you're talking about here, it's, it's,

28:03

it's our justice system, it's our justice

28:05

system. It's our justice system. It's our

28:07

justice system. It's our justice system. It's

28:09

our justice system. It's our justice system.

28:11

It's our justice system. It's our justice

28:13

system. It's the American justice system. It's

28:15

the way we do things. You have

28:17

your day in court. We all believe

28:19

in it. It's in the Constitution. And

28:21

you have those that jury there who

28:23

decides your fate. You have to keep

28:25

them awake. You have to keep them

28:27

entertained. And I spoke to the attorneys

28:29

about it too. And you know, that's

28:31

that is our system. I mean, if

28:33

it was a judge and not a

28:36

jury, I mean, and you just a

28:38

judge and not a jury, I mean,

28:40

and you just laid out all the

28:42

DNA evidence and all the information, you're

28:44

like, you know, you have to keep

28:46

their attention along the whole way. So

28:48

I like our system. It gets it

28:50

right. I think a lot of the

28:52

times. I mean, sometimes it doesn't. I

28:54

mean, both ways. I'm not saying it's

28:56

perfect, but I do like the fact

28:58

that you get your trial by 12

29:00

people and you get your attorney and

29:02

this is how we present the evidence

29:04

and you have to make it entertaining.

29:06

Otherwise, you have to have a good

29:09

attorney. That's just part of, that's part

29:11

of our justice system. Yeah, I've seen

29:13

that so many times where you can

29:15

tell one side where you can tell

29:17

one side just. they're not able to

29:19

really explain why is this witness on?

29:21

What is the purpose of this testimony?

29:23

Or you can blow a case. Where

29:25

are you taking your case? And I

29:27

thought, you know what, I thought both

29:29

sides had great lawyers. I thought Tammy

29:31

Moore's lawyer did a great job, Sydney's

29:33

lawyers did a great job, and the

29:35

prosecutors were amazing. I think Nancy Lifesay

29:37

just did an amazing job. sweet nice

29:39

person I met her in person and

29:42

I was like I I don't want

29:44

to be prosecuted by you but she's

29:46

such she has a big heart and

29:48

that's another thing I saw too in

29:50

Myrtle Beach I went down there a

29:52

number of times and you know it's

29:54

it's southern charm you know like they

29:56

have that it's a very hospitable town

29:58

and and they're very nice they're very

30:00

friendly I got to know you know

30:02

Jimmy Richardson you know we were down

30:04

there film I mean just a nice

30:06

guy and stand-up guy and it was

30:08

amazing to see how the community how

30:10

the community came together community came together

30:12

because I mean where you know that

30:15

didn't happen and you know people have

30:17

to care you know like you said

30:19

the police have to care the district

30:21

attorney has to care I mean there

30:23

was only circumstantial evidence in this case

30:25

you know so there wasn't a lot

30:27

of direct evidence so it was a

30:29

difficult case. They had to put together

30:31

a lot of pieces of the puzzle.

30:33

Yeah, that's something that people will get

30:35

into when they watch your series. But

30:37

now, thinking about that, you're talking about

30:39

how your brother has to basically conduct

30:41

the courtroom. He has to have a

30:43

plan and it's in parts, you know,

30:45

and we all want to get to

30:48

that end part where everything's explained. You're

30:50

going to give us the theory and

30:52

how this all ties together. But you're

30:54

doing much the same job with the

30:56

documentary series. Did you, I guess, have

30:58

meetings on how to structure this to

31:00

get this story put together to where

31:02

you keep the audience entertain and keep

31:04

them interested in that next part that's

31:06

coming up? Yeah, I mean, we have

31:08

a whole team. I was telling, I

31:10

was telling someone else this, I mean,

31:12

I think around over 100 people worked

31:14

on this movie. So, I mean, there's

31:16

a whole post-production team. Like I said,

31:18

I worked in this industry for a

31:21

while, so I mean, I do understand

31:23

the editing part and how to keep

31:25

attention the whatnot. Summer Dash was a

31:27

very very important piece of this project

31:29

and it would have never happened without

31:31

her and it would have never been

31:33

this this well done without her. She

31:35

asked the questions to the Elvis family.

31:37

She did a lot of the interviews

31:39

with the DAs. We both kind of

31:41

had a little bit more there. She

31:43

did an amazing job and one thing

31:45

that I really like about her style

31:47

of journalism. She does a good job

31:49

of the logical part of it, but

31:51

she also does an excellent job of

31:54

the emotional part of it. And she

31:56

doesn't push too hard, but she also

31:58

gets that part out of the story,

32:00

which I think it's hard to do.

32:02

I think it's hard to do. I

32:04

think that's probably one of the most

32:06

difficult parts to do is to get

32:08

people to open up emotionally. A lot

32:10

of that stuff is not done on

32:12

camera. A lot of that stuff is,

32:14

you know, building trust and getting to

32:16

know the people, and the eldest family.

32:18

And she just did an amazing job

32:20

and she was fun to work with.

32:22

So we worked together a lot on

32:24

how to structure things, you know, what

32:27

to ask what people because you know,

32:29

you don't need to ask everyone the

32:31

same thing, but certain people. new parts

32:33

of the case better than others. So

32:35

I would say she just did an

32:37

amazing job and she was excellent to

32:39

work with. Yeah, so I mean I

32:41

think about the it's a three-part series,

32:43

am I right? Yes. And so Heather

32:45

Elvis, I laid out the summary for

32:47

people, I think most people listening right

32:49

now know the case, but like I

32:51

said it's just really powerful hearing from

32:53

the family, getting those moments where they're

32:55

being asked questions that you know aren't

32:57

easy to answer. But I also got

33:00

the feeling they wanted to answer them.

33:02

There were moments where, you know, someone's

33:04

tearing up, but they have something they

33:06

really want to get out because, you

33:08

know, unlike with the normal media, nothing

33:10

against them, but, you know, you're only

33:12

going to get what you're going to

33:14

get from that reporter asking the one

33:16

question everyone wants to know, whereas in

33:18

this with a longer form series, you

33:20

can ask them things. And then you

33:22

get to hear what they said and

33:24

whether it was a friend who spoke

33:26

to someone just before they went missing

33:28

or someone who hadn't seen them. probably

33:30

10-12 days, but you know to them

33:33

they had just talked to Heather and

33:35

so getting those interviews and getting that

33:37

emotion it just brings people closer to

33:39

the case and hopefully after the series

33:41

premieres on it's March 10th 2025 people

33:43

will be tuned in and then after

33:45

that hopefully they'll be tweeting about it

33:47

or posting about it and getting the

33:49

conversation started again because I feel like

33:51

this is still a case. where we

33:53

need answers, it's not over yet, just

33:55

because there are convictions. Like you said,

33:57

they're not convicted on murder charges, Tammy

33:59

and Sidney Moore. Exactly. I mean, there's

34:01

still, or there might be other people

34:03

involved, and I think the appeal process

34:06

is going to be done in six

34:08

months. I think there's one more layer

34:10

of appeals, and a lot of people

34:12

think one of them is going to

34:14

flip on the other, you know, or

34:16

they could even give information. A lot

34:18

of people are wondering what's coming next

34:20

after that point. And this is good

34:22

that this documentary is coming out around

34:24

this time. I spoke to Debbie and

34:26

you know, she's not a vindictive or

34:28

she's not looking for revenge. She just

34:30

wants to know where her daughter is.

34:32

And I brought this up, you know,

34:34

the Natalie Holloway situation. Hi, this is

34:36

Steve Bussemi, you know, the actor. Well,

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now I'm an actor and podcast host

34:41

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34:43

Media in association with all of productions

34:45

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35:01

When Johan Batter Salute he was he

35:03

was being charged United States thing for

35:05

wire fraud or something like that. He

35:07

was looking at 10 years extra. He

35:09

committed a murder down in Lima Peru.

35:12

Actually I was in Lima when he

35:14

did that. Oh wow. Yeah, I remember

35:16

when I was going on. My mother's

35:18

from Lima, Peru. So I have family

35:20

there. I was down there. And I

35:22

know it's right on Benavides. It's a

35:24

casino I've been to. So next day

35:26

it was on the news all over

35:28

the place. I'm like, I remember him

35:30

from the Natalie Holloway thing. And then,

35:32

and I remember him from the Natalie

35:34

Holloway thing. And then, and then that

35:36

whole thing went down. Now in Peru,

35:38

you don't have a life sentence. So

35:40

he's going on the news all over

35:42

the news all over the news all

35:45

over the news all over the news

35:47

all over the news all over the

35:49

news all over the news all over

35:51

the news all over the place. I

35:53

mean. I mean. I mean. I mean.

35:55

I mean. I mean. I'm in the

35:57

United States. I'm in the United States.

35:59

I now understand perfectly well what Natalie

36:01

Holloway's mom, I think is a Beth

36:03

Holloway. He came up to the United

36:05

States and just said, you know, I

36:07

did it, I murdered your daughter, and

36:09

she says, that's all I wanted to

36:11

hear. You know, he told her exactly

36:13

how he did it, and then he,

36:15

that's it. I don't need 10 more

36:18

years of your life. That's what I

36:20

wanted. And, you know, it shows the,

36:22

how hard it is on somebody not

36:24

to have those answers for their loved

36:26

one. It's just one day you never

36:28

saw the person again. I mean, we

36:30

all have people that we know in

36:32

our lives that passed away, but we

36:34

have a grave site to go to.

36:36

We know where to visit them. We

36:38

know what happened to me. Even cancer,

36:40

car accident, whatever it might be, we

36:42

have an answer. Even, you know, for

36:44

other victims who are victims of murder,

36:46

you know, they know what happened. She

36:48

doesn't have answers. And it's a punishment

36:51

beyond belief, I realize, working with this

36:53

case, not to have that. And I

36:55

understand perfectly well about the Natalie Holloway

36:57

situation. And she's not benchful. Ten more

36:59

years on his life. I mean, that's

37:01

not what she wanted. And I think,

37:03

I mean, I don't want to put

37:05

words in the Elvis' family's mouth and

37:07

what they want and anything like that,

37:09

but that's kind of what I got

37:11

from them is they don't seem ventral,

37:13

but they do want answers. They want

37:15

to know where there is. Yeah, so

37:17

often people murder and then, you know,

37:19

there's an investigation. They can uncover that

37:21

here's likely what happened. We're going to

37:24

try and show it through a trial

37:26

with the evidence that we have usually

37:28

circumstantial. the one thing that they can

37:30

give back because they can't bring that

37:32

person back, they can bring back and

37:34

give them the truth. Here's what happened.

37:36

And, you know, I think if there's

37:38

any kind of remorse, if they're trying

37:40

to look out for just how will

37:42

people view them down the road? Do

37:44

they care about that? They can come

37:46

clean, and I think they'll gain some

37:48

respect. I mean, you can't take back

37:50

while you did, but when they hand

37:52

back that truth, it means something. And

37:54

so really when I look at this

37:57

Heather Elvis case. You brought up a

37:59

great point earlier, which is there's this

38:01

idea that one could flip on the

38:03

other. If you look at the relationship

38:05

between Tammy and Sydney, now that they're

38:07

not together anymore, they're separated, you know,

38:09

because obviously they're not in a cell

38:11

together, I think this is what is

38:13

likely to happen, because someone can talk,

38:15

they can make a deal. And, you

38:17

know, we'll see if there is a

38:19

deal to be habit, if there is.

38:21

I could totally see someone flipping and

38:23

you know Sydney had been under Tammy's

38:25

thumb for so long. I don't know

38:27

if that would just be like relief

38:30

for him. Could go the other way

38:32

too. Right. You know, I mean, Tammy

38:34

seems to have the personality that I

38:36

don't know how much she, you know,

38:38

loves her husband, but, you know, it

38:40

could go the other way too. You

38:42

don't know. I mean, but they always

38:44

see, what's that whole saying where there's

38:46

two people that, there's two people that,

38:48

there's two people that, there's one secret,

38:50

you know, usually one flips on the

38:52

other just because the other one fears

38:54

that the other one's gonna flip on

38:56

them. you would think that maybe one

38:58

would flip on the other or one

39:00

would fear the other one flipping on

39:03

them. So again, you know, that possibility

39:05

is very strong. You know, I brought

39:07

it up many times and asked people,

39:09

hey, what's your opinion on this or

39:11

that, you know, the prosecutors and the

39:13

police and, you know, some people thought,

39:15

no, they're probably, you know, who knows,

39:17

they won't flip or some people thought,

39:19

yeah, give them more time. all to

39:21

do is tell the other person did

39:23

it, I get out, they're going to

39:25

stay in forever, you know, who knows?

39:27

So. Well, one last thing on the

39:29

case before I go on, I just

39:31

wanted to mention that you brought up

39:33

a number of times that other people

39:36

might be involved. And that makes me

39:38

think that there just wasn't a lot

39:40

of time in that period where Heather

39:42

and Sydney's, you know, phones, I guess

39:44

you could say, when they're in the

39:46

same area. And Heather to this day

39:48

has not been found. So it really

39:50

makes you wonder how the heck could

39:52

she not be found if she were

39:54

murdered or incapacitated whatever? How did no

39:56

one find her? Because there's not really

39:58

a lot of time there when they

40:00

were in the same area. And have

40:02

to watch the documentary. We did put

40:04

some information there in regards to possibilities

40:06

and stuff like that. But it's a

40:09

huge mystery. You know, the amount of

40:11

time that they had in order to

40:13

get rid of a body. However, they

40:15

were their plan. I don't know how

40:17

deep they're planning. I mean, did they

40:19

have a plan months? We before that

40:21

they're hey look we're gonna get this

40:23

and this is gonna be done in

40:25

an hour or two hours you know

40:27

it makes you wonder because you're right

40:29

they executed that part of it you

40:31

know pretty well no one's found the

40:33

body yet this many years later and

40:35

there was a huge search for it

40:37

you know I spoke to people down

40:39

there one of the guys in the

40:42

documentary Bill Barrett you know he took

40:44

me around he was showing me around

40:46

areas where they searched and he was

40:48

explaining the search and he was done

40:50

very thoroughly in a lot of areas

40:52

He thinks, you know, maybe there's some

40:54

other areas that could be where she

40:56

possibly could be that they could do

40:58

more searching. Another huge thing to note

41:00

about Myrtle Beach is in the last

41:02

10 years, it's grown tremendously. So you

41:04

have all these new developments, all these

41:06

new homes. So, you know, people are

41:08

digging and digging and digging in areas

41:10

that used to be woods and stuff

41:12

like that. You know, did, you know,

41:15

did someone maybe see something and maybe

41:17

say, hey, look, this might not be

41:19

good for... our business here, you know,

41:21

saying there's a dead body we're trying

41:23

to sell homes. I mean, anybody watching

41:25

this podcast right now who's in that

41:27

area and you, you know, you might

41:29

know something or heard some that might

41:31

know some say something, you know, hopefully

41:33

this will bring that to light as

41:35

well because they dug up a lot

41:37

of areas in the last 10 years

41:39

and they're still continuing their building there

41:41

like crazy. Where can they see it

41:43

though? It's going to be available on

41:45

Apple TV and Amazon Prime Video. Well,

41:48

that's pretty amazing. And can you give

41:50

anyone any ideas about what you have

41:52

in the works? Yeah, we have actually

41:54

two other projects that are in the

41:56

works. One is called the Dynan Dash

41:58

Dater. It's a dating scam document. It

42:00

actually takes place in Los Angeles. Amazing

42:02

story. It's more to do a safety

42:04

of online dating, dating apps and stuff

42:06

like that. It's a lot a lot

42:08

more light-hearted. It was more of like

42:10

a murder. It's more of like a

42:12

scam. about a guy who would go

42:14

on these dating apps and websites, meet

42:16

women, take them to dinner, kind of

42:18

say that he had, you know, a

42:21

lot going on with his life, that

42:23

he was a man of means, and

42:25

well, take him to very expensive restaurants,

42:27

order steak and lobster, and then cut

42:29

out in the middle of the date,

42:31

leaving them with the check. And, right.

42:33

And it went on for years because

42:35

it was a perfect crime, you can

42:37

think about it in a way, just

42:39

because it wasn't enough money and there

42:41

was such a high embarrassment where people

42:43

like a couple of a couple of

42:45

hundred bucks. But a woman said, hey,

42:47

look, no, I'm putting this on social

42:49

media. It went by her. Hey, then

42:51

he did it to me. He did

42:54

it to me. You know, LA is

42:56

a very media-centric city. So like the

42:58

news picked it up and, you know,

43:00

the dating culture and LA is, it's

43:02

a little different than a little different

43:04

than a little different than a little

43:06

different than a lot of other cities.

43:08

It's a little different than a lot

43:10

of other cities. It's a little different

43:12

culture. So, but it's an interesting, it's

43:14

an interesting story. I became friends with

43:16

the detective in it. He's going to

43:18

actually come to our screening. Victor Cass's,

43:20

great, great guy. He had a great

43:22

story. And so that's something that we

43:24

actually have our interviews filmed. We're working

43:27

on that. And then we have another

43:29

one we're doing with John Lording. they

43:31

didn't bring charges where you know we're

43:33

investigating the case right now so I

43:35

don't want to really say this is

43:37

what I conclusively think it was on

43:39

dateline I think a lot of people

43:41

you know have their opinions on it

43:43

but you know there's there's two sides

43:45

where a guy was found dead and

43:47

you know initially the police in the

43:49

in the DA say was an accident

43:51

you know or you know he did

43:53

it himself or you know he killed

43:55

committed suicide. But then they hired a

43:57

private investigator, came out, found very different

44:00

information. They won in civil court, that

44:02

was a wrongful death, and you know,

44:04

the evidence is very strong towards, you

44:06

know. Yeah, I'm somewhat familiar. that case

44:08

and it's definitely two sides and I

44:10

do think you can look into it

44:12

and I think you can pick a

44:14

side but that's just my opinion but

44:16

it's definitely a case worth exploring. Exactly

44:18

we're exploring right now I mean you

44:20

know I don't want to give away

44:22

too much on that because we didn't

44:24

interview anybody yet and you know we're

44:26

keeping an open mind you know right

44:28

now but yeah so that's a very

44:30

interesting case that we're working on as

44:33

well. with John. So it should be.

44:35

John Lorden. Yeah, yeah. No, he's great

44:37

guys, spent a lot of time around

44:39

him. I love his enthusiasm and his

44:41

curiosity. A long time ago, he started

44:43

a YouTube channel type of brain scratch.

44:45

And sure enough, is the perfect name.

44:47

Well, Michael, it was a pleasure having

44:49

you on. I can't say enough good

44:51

things about the Heather Elva series that

44:53

you created with your team. I hope

44:55

everyone checks it out on Apple and

44:57

on Amazon. Any last words before you

44:59

go. I just want to thank Aaron

45:01

for the podcast and yeah, I mean,

45:03

I ask everyone, you know, to go

45:06

out, check it out on Apple or

45:08

Amazon and let us know what you

45:10

think. Enjoying Generation Y, get exclusive episodes,

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