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1:10

Looking at the whole situation where

1:12

it really escalated to the

1:14

point where, you know,

1:16

it seemed to be driving

1:18

her to do its

1:20

bidding for lack of a

1:22

better term and seeing

1:24

the whole picture of that

1:26

point in time of

1:28

where she really was almost, you know,

1:31

being controlled in some way, shape,

1:33

or form by what it wanted

1:35

to the point of it eventually

1:37

ending, What was its its

1:39

mission? What was it its goal? Did

1:42

it have a clear mission or goal?

1:44

Or was it just to wreak havoc

1:46

with people? I

1:48

really believe that it was

1:50

just to wreak havoc with people

1:52

because it never really Well

1:54

now wait a minute. I will

1:57

tell you this This happened though

1:59

near the end right before the

2:01

the main All

2:03

hell breaking loose and

2:05

so to speak Near

2:08

the end of this but

2:10

it's it did make comments when

2:12

she would get it start

2:14

up and she would She would

2:16

say things to it that

2:18

would Get it a little agitated,

2:20

you know Say she might

2:22

say things like I don't

2:24

believe you or whatever trying

2:27

to get an X and

2:29

a response out of it

2:31

It did tell her I'm

2:33

going to make everyone pay

2:35

for the bad time

2:37

that I had there. But

2:39

the thing is, when they would ask, how are

2:41

you going to make us pay? It would be silent.

2:44

There wouldn't be anything that

2:46

would be said until near

2:48

the end. That's when it

2:50

really, really, really got scary. It

2:53

never had a specific

2:56

purpose as

2:58

far as

3:00

what it was going

3:02

to do until toward the end.

3:04

It basically was a strange

3:06

relationship that she had with an

3:08

invisible spirit that she talked

3:10

to on a daily basis. And

3:14

she thought it and it got to a

3:16

point to where there was nobody else she

3:18

could contact through the board because he

3:20

was always there every

3:22

time. So this spirit

3:24

was kind of like taking over

3:27

the sessions you know when she would sit

3:29

down and she was playing this thing

3:31

and typically you have two people got to

3:33

a point where nobody else wanted to

3:35

do this with her. Stephanie would do it

3:37

with her most of the time but

3:39

then she and Josie played with her a

3:42

time or two but she actually got

3:44

to a point where she just did this

3:46

by herself and like I said we'll be

3:48

walking on it or walking on her

3:50

whatever she'd kind of get. agitated

3:52

and say, you guys be quiet

3:54

or whatever, because

3:56

it would break the concentration, she said,

3:59

and Ron would leave.

4:05

But the interesting thing about

4:07

it was the way that

4:09

this actually wedged through relationships

4:12

is because of the fussing

4:14

and fighting that started going

4:16

on between the group with

4:18

Rachel and Josie and Nate

4:20

and Spencer and those guys

4:23

and Rachel kept telling them,

4:25

you know, you need to

4:27

you need to tell her

4:29

to leave that thing alone. That

4:32

gives me the creeps don't want it played

4:34

there in the dorm where we're at. We've all

4:36

got to live there. And I'm

4:38

telling you, these are the things

4:41

that can happen. And then when she's

4:43

waking up and having experience in

4:45

furniture moving across the room, you know,

4:47

something is already going on that

4:49

can't be reversed. I mean,

4:51

you know, something bad has already

4:54

transpired. And so now you've got

4:56

something that they don't really know

4:58

how to deal with this. And

5:01

so they don't really know

5:03

how, I mean, they've awakened an

5:05

angry spirit that they're using

5:07

a board to talk to. And

5:09

he has gained enough strength

5:11

now to where they feel like

5:13

he's haunting the freaking norm. And

5:16

he's in the room and stuff

5:18

with them. And so, they

5:20

begin to argue, and you can

5:22

see that in the book. They

5:24

begin to argue in things,

5:27

but amongst themselves. And

5:29

Amber, who was a part of

5:31

the group, or she was friends

5:33

with some of them at some

5:35

point, she just like becomes their

5:37

enemy. And

5:39

because she's bound and determined

5:41

that that's what she's, that's

5:43

her thing. She's gonna play

5:45

the board and that's, That's

5:48

her new friend. Ron Banks

5:50

is her new friend and

5:52

I think she trusts that

5:55

I think she's so mesmerized

5:57

by it that she just

5:59

can't Let it go And

6:01

so yeah, like you said

6:03

it it it becomes Something

6:06

to where it finally after

6:08

weeks it does tell her

6:10

after telling her that you

6:12

know had a very the

6:14

spirit had a very experience

6:18

as a student there. And

6:20

she's like, well, so what do you,

6:22

you know, what are we going to do

6:25

about it? Or, you know, what, what's

6:27

the point? And, and he says, oh, I'm

6:29

going to make everybody pay. I'm

6:31

going to make everybody pay for the

6:33

bad things that happened to me while I

6:35

was there. Is that

6:37

the point when all hell breaks

6:39

loose? Is that what he's referring to

6:41

is, is making everybody pay? Did

6:44

something happen? Something did happen. Yes, at

6:46

the very end toward the end

6:48

now, you know, leading up to that

6:50

point, not immediately when that happened.

6:52

Did he say, I want to make

6:54

everybody pay for that? Then, you

6:56

know, fast forward a few

6:59

more weeks later when she

7:01

is sitting down with the board

7:03

and she's in the room

7:05

by herself and she challenges him.

7:07

And this is what she

7:09

says to this Ouija board spirit.

7:12

If you're so strong, if you

7:14

can do all these things, and

7:17

she claims that it

7:19

threatens to kill her, then

7:22

she tells it, you prove

7:24

it. Prove it.

7:27

And he did. Now, they're

7:29

in the dorm, and I

7:31

don't want to tell you exactly what

7:34

happens at the very end, but

7:36

the entire dorm is

7:38

evacuated within seconds,

7:40

minutes, I'm talking

7:42

about snap your fingers.

7:45

So that's what happened that near

7:48

the end. She is sitting

7:50

at the in the hall, not

7:52

in the hall, but at

7:54

the end of that hall in

7:56

that room by herself, Indian

7:58

style on the floor and

8:01

she's sitting there and she's

8:03

playing that board, you know,

8:07

It's probably 9 30 10 o

8:09

'clock and Nobody's around Nobody and

8:11

not everybody has come back

8:13

to the dorm and to turn

8:15

in to go to bed

8:17

But the dorm there there were

8:20

a lot of people though

8:22

that were in their rooms and

8:24

she just told it She

8:26

said if you're so strong then

8:28

just prove it because you

8:31

know he would say things to

8:33

her I can do this

8:35

and I can do that and

8:37

I can show you and

8:39

She just challenged it She challenged

8:41

it and there it was

8:44

and Bobby came on the scene

8:46

and emergency personnel came on

8:48

the scene and After that finale

8:50

as I call it as

8:52

to the widget board incident was

8:55

over because you know the

8:57

board was thrown into a fire

8:59

But at the very end

9:01

and a little bit after that

9:03

happened people kind of went

9:05

their own separate ways and it

9:08

was just there was a

9:10

it was really strange there was

9:12

a calm and a stillness

9:14

that came over the campus there

9:16

um for a little while

9:19

after that happened it was real

9:21

odd and then of course

9:23

the holidays and the campus was

9:25

quiet and then by the

9:27

next semester it was just like

9:29

you know it was just

9:32

it was strange It was

9:34

like all hail breaking

9:36

loose and this going on

9:38

and it was just

9:40

wild. It was absolutely wild.

9:43

With her being the main

9:45

character here and the

9:47

main focus of the conversation

9:49

with the spirit, And

9:52

you said everybody kind of

9:54

going their own way. What

9:56

specifically happened with her afterwards?

9:58

You said the board was

10:01

burned eventually. Sometimes that

10:03

WS doesn't end the story. What

10:06

happened with her, if anything,

10:08

after that incident? Well,

10:10

what we know of her, it was

10:12

within just like two or three

10:14

days. She packed up

10:16

everything that she had. Which was

10:18

it much the in there

10:20

in the dorm and put it

10:23

into her car and left

10:25

We people never saw her again

10:27

Left school dropped out whatever

10:29

you want to call it. She

10:31

was gone. Nobody heard from

10:33

I have never seen her since

10:35

And she and it would

10:38

be interesting though She was from

10:40

this area, you know the

10:42

area that the story is about

10:44

and we all kind of

10:46

were but I believe there

10:48

was a phone call that

10:51

she placed to her mother. Her

10:54

mother was actually, like I

10:56

said, she was miles, thousands

10:58

of miles away. And

11:01

the last that I heard is

11:03

that we all thought, and I'm

11:05

saying I think because this is

11:07

what I had heard, is that

11:09

she went to be with her

11:11

mom. So

11:13

if she joined her mom and got

11:15

a plane ticket and what she did with

11:17

their clothes and all that, I don't

11:19

know, but nobody heard from her ever since.

11:22

The rest of them kind of went

11:24

on and they led their lives and that

11:26

kind of thing. But this one kind

11:28

of like disappeared overnight. When

11:32

that was over with and

11:34

it was all, you can

11:36

imagine the rumors at that

11:38

point. You can just imagine

11:40

when there's emergency personnel and

11:42

all this stuff and the

11:44

rumors were already circulating around

11:46

the campus about this and

11:48

then you have this big

11:50

event that happens toward the

11:52

end. She kind of

11:54

like bails out. Very

11:59

interesting though, just

12:01

kind of zombie like.

12:05

It's too bad. But, you know, I

12:08

kind of looked at that and

12:10

I thought, yeah, the spirit, he won.

12:12

He's destroyed. He has

12:14

gotten her to play to

12:16

keep on and keep on

12:18

and keep on. To now

12:20

she's created a big mess

12:23

and she's got nowhere to

12:25

go. She's just made a

12:27

mess of all these weeks and

12:29

being in school. And this was

12:31

her first year at, you know,

12:33

in college. And, oh my

12:35

gosh. I mean, it's just

12:37

like it's just destroyed anything good

12:39

that could have come out of

12:41

her experience there. So who knows

12:44

what happened to her. Did anyone

12:46

else from that circle, from that

12:48

group that was aware or was

12:50

involved with any of this ever

12:52

have any more interactions or feel

12:54

any repercussions from that time after

12:56

it was done? Not that I'm

12:58

aware of. they

13:00

felt like they felt relief from

13:03

being away from it. It was kind

13:05

of like there was finally an

13:07

ending. Kind of like

13:09

when she left the picture and

13:11

moved away or left or wherever

13:13

she went. And the

13:15

board, in other words, it was destroyed

13:17

to the point where she couldn't play

13:19

with that particular board anymore anyway. You

13:23

know, and she had put

13:25

herself in a position to where

13:29

I don't want to say

13:31

it, but she could have

13:34

been forcefully told to, you've

13:36

got to leave. You know what

13:38

I mean? Nobody

13:41

wanted to be, to live

13:43

around her or be around her

13:46

anymore. But

13:48

as far as I know,

13:50

Nate, he went on, he was

13:52

fine, Spencer was fine. Spencer

13:54

had an incident where he got

13:58

hurt in the story and

14:00

that's where that you'll see

14:03

that that after his experience

14:05

with the Ouija board spirit

14:07

or whatever a spirit that

14:09

we believe was brought about

14:11

by the Ouija board that

14:13

kind of changed his thinking

14:15

a little bit a lot

14:18

really and but Nate came

14:20

from a family that he

14:22

had grown up and kind

14:24

of a religious background so

14:27

Um, he went on to a senior

14:29

college and he was fine. And, you

14:31

know, of course, Josie, that was very

14:33

interesting. Um, you'll see in the book

14:35

where I've written about the different ones,

14:38

Josie ended up quitting. Um,

14:40

she held on for just a

14:42

few more weeks and, and

14:44

that was about it. But it's

14:46

just really, it seemed a

14:48

little bit sad that it, that

14:50

that particular incident just really,

14:52

um, It was damaging, I

14:54

think. I don't see anything

14:56

good that came out of that

14:58

situation at all. And

15:00

when they did, when we all did

15:02

research before, before now,

15:04

before, of course, years

15:07

ago, we were never

15:09

able to identify anyone

15:11

who had committed suicide.

15:13

Interesting enough though, fast

15:15

forward years later, And

15:18

I think it was

15:20

around 1995 or 1996. There

15:22

was a young man

15:24

who was in his car

15:26

in the parking lot

15:29

near the location where Ryan

15:31

Banks said that he

15:33

shot himself. This young

15:35

man shot himself, shot

15:37

and killed himself on the

15:39

campus in that car. But

15:42

he's the only known

15:44

person that there's any record

15:46

of anybody doing that. So,

15:50

um, and supposedly

15:52

it was because he was battling,

15:54

um, uh, he

15:56

had lost his younger brother and

15:58

he was battling depression and

16:00

grief and that kind of thing.

16:02

but, But a tragic thing, tragic

16:05

stories. That wraps up our interview with Elle

16:07

Sidney Fisher. I I want to thank her

16:09

for being a guest today on The Grave

16:11

Talks, And thank you for being a supporter

16:13

of the program and helping to keep our

16:15

program on the air. We We do the

16:17

show without you. Until next time for for

16:20

Grave Talks, I'm Tony Brusky. Thanks for listening.

16:37

Talks