I had already heard Jonathan Birch in the 80,000 Hours podcast and was pretty impressed by the clarity of his thought and the tightness of his rhetoric. Here too he demonstrates his uncanny ability to address deep ideas with surprising approachability. The conversation ranges from high-level definitions of sentience, to the research protocols used to inform scientific positions on the matter, all the way to the practical aspects of translating these notions into actual law that addresses real-life situations. I highly recommend this episode!