0:00

Have you seen me

0:02

dice back? The

0:04

Grognard files! Hello,

0:06

my name is

0:08

dirt the dice and

0:10

this is the

0:13

Grognard files podcast

0:16

where we taught Bobbins at

0:18

tabletop RPGs from back in

0:20

the day and today... and

0:22

coming live from my den

0:24

here in the hearts of

0:27

the Northwest of England. I'm

0:29

completely and utterly surrounded by

0:31

my stuff. I've just about

0:33

unpacked everything from Grogme, which

0:35

at the time of recording

0:37

took place last month in

0:40

January 2025. It was delayed

0:42

from November last year due

0:44

to the MTV Awards being

0:46

held in Manchester. It was a

0:48

great weekend and later in this

0:50

episode I'll be joined in the

0:53

zoom of role-playing rambling by our

0:55

resident rules lawyer Judge Blithe. So

0:57

we can have a post-mortem on

0:59

our experiences of what we played

1:01

and what we thought of the

1:03

time that we had. It always

1:05

goes far too quickly. Anyway, this

1:08

year, our guest of honour was

1:10

Paul Bodowski, who's been on the

1:12

podcast before, talking about paranoia. But

1:14

this time, we're catching up with

1:16

him after a few productive

1:18

years. Paul is an explosion

1:20

of ideas and gaming inspiration.

1:22

It was good to chat

1:24

to him on the Sunday

1:27

morning of grog meat about

1:29

his revival. of a little-play

1:31

game from Gary Gagax. His

1:33

experiences in play by mail

1:35

back in the day and

1:37

projects that have been developed

1:39

and released since we last

1:41

spoke. The D-sanction is a

1:43

great premise and it's one

1:45

of the many that are

1:47

in the Baldowski Brain Box.

1:49

Listen as we unlock some

1:52

of the delights within over

1:54

this Grogg pod. Ramblers! Let's

1:56

get rambling! Hello! My name's

1:58

Dirt the Days and this This is

2:00

the Groghnard Files podcast where we

2:02

talk Bobbins about tabletop RPG from

2:05

back in the day and today.

2:07

And I'm coming live from Fan

2:09

Boy 3 and I'm completely and

2:11

utterly surrounded by the Grob squad.

2:13

Hello Grob squad! And on my

2:16

left I have Paul Baldowski. Hello

2:18

there Paul. Hello there. And on

2:20

my right I have the ridiculous

2:22

homemade shrine to the actor Caroline

2:24

Monroe. Paul would you like to

2:27

give a tap to give a

2:29

tap. I absolutely would. Where

2:31

would you like me to

2:34

talk? That's up to you,

2:36

wherever you feel comfortable. Okay,

2:39

let's obviously the eternal champion.

2:41

She's appeared as herself. A

2:44

Rome manifestation. It was actually

2:46

the eternal champion's birthday last

2:49

Thursday. Ooh. And here is

2:51

a picture. on here that

2:53

my daughter did. Her daughter's

2:56

18 now, but when she

2:58

was four, we were obsessed

3:01

with Simbad, you know, the

3:03

Golden Voyage of Simbad. And

3:06

this is a drawing that

3:08

she did of Caroline. On

3:11

her birthday, we sent an

3:13

email to her and she

3:16

ordered the picture. You said,

3:18

maybe some days she can

3:21

come to a convention and

3:23

I'll sign it for her.

3:26

Ever the professional. Yeah. That'll

3:28

be 15 pounds. But I

3:31

think it's only right we

3:33

should think happy birthday to

3:36

the eternal champion. One, two,

3:38

three. Happy birthday to you.

3:41

Happy birthday to you. Happy

3:43

birthday. The eternal champion. Happy

3:46

birthday to you. Thank you.

3:48

We told you me in

3:51

that. So Paul, you've been

3:53

running games in Grugmey. How

3:55

has that gone for you?

3:58

It was really good. I

4:00

always consider Grobme an opportunity

4:03

to run the games that

4:05

never get run. Yes. And

4:08

yesterday was very much the

4:10

case at that. One was a

4:12

haven't run it despite owning it

4:14

for 40 years, which was

4:17

dangerous journeys. Gary Gagax's

4:19

last flaming hope which

4:21

ultimately burnt down to ashes.

4:24

Taking games designer workshop with

4:26

it. But that was entertaining,

4:28

an incredibly complex game. Tells

4:30

a bit more about the

4:33

history of that. So, because

4:35

I've heard people talk about

4:37

it. Yeah, that, does that,

4:40

is D&D, but everything me

4:42

named, is that a game?

4:44

Avoiding copyright infringement. Yeah, kind

4:46

of, I mean, by no

4:49

means a gaming historian, Gary

4:51

Gagax had his ties cut,

4:53

the bridges burn, bridges burn

4:55

the TSR, the legal. bodies

4:57

had leapt in and he

5:00

went and so Dangerous journeys.

5:02

I'm not sure it's necessarily

5:04

D&D re-imagined. The game itself,

5:06

the Mythus engine, was meant

5:08

to be like a generic

5:10

engine on which things could

5:13

be built. I think Dangerous

5:15

journeys overall was that that

5:17

was the idea behind it.

5:19

The first game he did was

5:21

that this effectively an alternate world

5:23

fantasy setting. and he'd written a

5:25

whole bunch of books for it.

5:28

There's a core book, there's a

5:30

magic book, there is one about

5:32

this alternate earth. Every time an

5:34

E is in the game it's

5:36

suddenly got an A in front

5:38

of it as well. So there's

5:40

Earth with an A in the

5:43

front and Egypt with an A

5:45

in the front. Whatever the term

5:47

for that particular character is. And

5:49

so there were like five books,

5:51

I think pretty much written. and

5:53

then TSR came along and said, oh, on

5:56

top of all the other things you can't

5:58

do, you can't do any fantasy game. that's

6:00

all part of the agreement. So

6:02

unfortunately the first game David's journeys

6:04

was exactly the thing he wasn't

6:07

allowed to do and they'd invested

6:09

all this money in and so

6:11

yeah it ultimately was kind

6:13

of his swan song unfortunately

6:15

it probably took game designer workshop

6:17

with it as well so and

6:20

what's it like to play is

6:22

it worth reviving because some of

6:24

these games that you put the

6:26

defibrillator on. You sometimes come away

6:28

with a headache and not much

6:31

enjoying this. You would, there would,

6:33

no, this is all headaches. Really?

6:35

What I ran yesterday was called

6:37

Mythos Prime, which is kind of

6:40

like the D&D to the A,

6:42

D&D, where the game uses the

6:44

same terminology. It doesn't use the

6:46

same numbers. in the background. So

6:49

if you run it as I

6:51

did, the adventure I was running

6:53

was written for the full fat

6:55

version of Dangerous Journeys. I was

6:58

using the skimmed milk version. You

7:00

have to actually work everything out,

7:02

like you know, stats are halved,

7:04

skills are 75%. It's not even,

7:06

yeah, it's not even just halving

7:09

everything, it's like formulas almost in

7:11

the background. Ignore this bit, ignore

7:13

this bit, ignore that bit, ignore

7:15

that bit, and... Yeah, but the

7:17

actual main version of it is just

7:20

really complicated. You know, you've got a

7:22

physical stat, but then you've got three

7:24

sub-stats, which are like capacity, and

7:26

I don't even remember what they

7:28

were, but you end up with,

7:30

you've got physical, spiritual, and mental,

7:32

and they've all got three sub-stats,

7:34

and then you don't have skills. You

7:36

have knowledge slash skills, and each of

7:39

them is broken down into something called

7:41

a steep, which I can't now even

7:43

remember. Study, teaching, education, something sounds

7:45

amazing it's that the book has got

7:48

a four-page glossary slash slash abbreviation section

7:50

at the end there was one page

7:52

of acronyms and and fundamentally as you

7:54

read them through it you're going no

7:57

Gary I know what you were writing

7:59

about it and then you chose

8:01

to give it a new name

8:03

because you were sidestepping it. So

8:05

it's horrific. I'm gonna run it

8:08

out a few more times this

8:10

year, but that's purely because I'm

8:12

a masochist, I think. And your

8:14

second game was a bit. Second

8:16

game was Savage World, which I

8:19

have owned for a little while,

8:21

read several times, but never run.

8:23

So I had to go. I

8:25

think it worked okay. You'd have

8:27

to talk to my players in

8:30

that respect, but that's just one

8:32

of the games where it's a

8:34

common. sort of game masters always

8:36

have something they fall back on

8:38

if they want to run something

8:41

and they'll use a core rule

8:43

system and savage worlds is one

8:45

of those examples but I've never

8:47

quite groct it in terms of

8:49

why it's a fallback for people

8:52

because it has always come across

8:54

as a little bit tactical crunchy

8:56

maybe it's got you know it's

8:58

got it's got measurements in it

9:01

and yeah lots of little subsistence

9:03

it's got a raft of modular

9:05

bits and pieces so even I

9:07

read the adventure I ran I

9:09

ran an adventure pre-written one yesterday

9:12

and there were several times during

9:14

it where it said like run

9:16

this as a dramatic encounter and

9:18

I'm going, what does that mean?

9:20

So yeah, that was another experience

9:23

and I'm going to run that

9:25

a few times this year and

9:27

sort of cross those firmly off

9:29

my list one way or another.

9:31

Yeah, as somebody does use savage

9:34

worlds as a kind of goal

9:36

to system. Yeah, it does take

9:38

a few run eggs I think

9:40

to get your head around it

9:42

and master it and feel confident

9:45

about it. The other bit... taking

9:47

it to conventions is a commitment.

9:49

Because so many bits? Yes. So

9:51

many bits are linked to it.

9:53

Yeah. Good. That's, that's good. I

9:56

was running a game set in

9:58

my game world of RACLAC created

10:00

with Blevy and Ed. When I

10:02

was 16, Postal Game. And I

10:04

know that you have got a

10:07

similar experience for PBMs. Yeah. You

10:09

run a PBM. So tell us

10:11

about that. I think I was

10:13

probably a little bit earlier, only

10:15

ever so slightly, maybe 14 or

10:18

15. Project. Yes. But to my

10:20

map, and I can't honestly remember

10:22

the name of the, it was

10:24

like a region of a larger

10:26

map, and it was a geography.

10:29

piece of geography homework I was

10:31

supposed to be doing. And this

10:33

piece of geography homework turned into

10:35

this map that effectively fills, I

10:38

don't even know what size it

10:40

works out, probably an A2 sort

10:42

of map. There's not quite that,

10:44

it's like several square pieces of

10:46

paper, all tapes, they were all

10:49

taped together. And the more I

10:51

drew, the more, it's got contours.

10:53

Oh wow, yeah, yes. I think

10:55

that got me extra, extra point

10:57

here. Actually, the key, the, on

11:00

the back of the map, my

11:02

geography teacher wrote how impressed he

11:04

was with the detail and gave

11:06

me five endeavors, which was like,

11:08

you would get, you'd normally get

11:11

one endeavor. It wasn't a guy

11:13

guys, was there? No, no. But

11:15

he, you'd get this little slip.

11:17

which showed you got an endeavor

11:19

or something. I got five endeavors

11:22

for this one map. But so

11:24

that map then became the basis

11:26

for what was called Darklands. So

11:28

that was, Darklands was the first

11:30

play by mail. And I cannot

11:33

for the life of me work

11:35

out why I started running it.

11:37

I think maybe. It was all

11:39

those classified ads in White Dwarf.

11:41

It was, you know, looking through

11:44

White Dwarf, not only were there

11:46

adverts, you know, full, full adverts

11:48

for these terribly professional sounding companies,

11:50

but there was the likes of

11:52

you and I in the classified

11:55

section. Yeah, and so I advertised,

11:57

yeah, would anyone like to play

11:59

the Starans? game might typed it

12:01

on the old manual

12:04

typewriter. It runs to about

12:06

50 pages of A4. I

12:08

think it grew over time.

12:10

So the more I ran

12:12

it, the more detail was

12:14

added. So players, people who

12:16

were playing it, would get

12:19

a copy of this rulebook.

12:21

and I dread to think

12:23

how little I probably charged

12:25

for it. It was probably

12:27

just to cover the photocopying

12:29

costs from going down the

12:31

library. Yeah. First one. And it

12:33

had, I mean, it probably had a

12:36

couple of dozen players. Wish. It's not

12:38

much, but it ran for, you know,

12:40

it ran for a few years. It

12:42

can take over your life. Yeah, because

12:44

I didn't type the responses, they were

12:47

all hundreds. Yes. And probably ran to

12:49

maybe a side or two of A4

12:51

of handwritten, sort of story. And I

12:53

don't know about your place, but there

12:55

were terribly keen, weren't they? So you

12:57

kind of get through a batch of

13:00

them. Send them off, I think, man,

13:02

for that next day, they'd be bad.

13:04

It never ends! Yeah, yeah, I

13:06

mean part of the contract

13:08

with the players was a

13:10

self-addressed, a stamp, a self-addressed

13:12

employee. You're not getting a

13:14

response from me. And I

13:16

think it was maybe just

13:18

like a pound or a

13:20

pound 50 or something. It

13:22

wasn't much per turn. And

13:24

it went up a little

13:26

bit over time, but yeah,

13:28

you're right. You mean expense

13:30

if I chose 10P? Yeah.

13:32

the technology did develop over

13:34

time I started using carbon paper

13:36

purely because otherwise I couldn't remember

13:39

what I'd already done I mean

13:41

it otherwise it ends up like

13:43

one of those you know sort

13:45

of ongoing narrative it would be

13:47

an ongoing narrative where I'd have

13:49

to remember what happened last year

13:52

or the year before because some of

13:54

the players did run the characters I

13:56

think the longest running one went to

13:58

about 40 or 52. Right, wow. But

14:01

during that time, I started then

14:03

running other games. So Darklands was

14:05

the first one, and there was

14:07

one rather imaginatively called Dark Hope,

14:09

which was a science fiction game.

14:12

To the Stars was like a

14:14

corporate cyberpunky, vaguely exploration game. And

14:16

then Nexus were a bunch of

14:18

like war games where I started

14:20

writing sort of like you you

14:22

have a civilization and you go

14:25

you need to develop your military

14:27

diplomatic and Whatever structure and so

14:29

yeah, I just got into this

14:31

This business of writing one game

14:33

after the other which seems to

14:36

have carried on to now in

14:38

his own way, but I'm not

14:40

quite as prolific as I probably

14:42

was when I was a teenager.

14:44

And did you retain, have you

14:46

still got all that stuff? I've

14:49

got a lot of the rulebooks,

14:51

yeah. I would have bought them

14:53

in, but... I have this vision

14:55

that some of them now need

14:57

the repair shop to get the

15:00

conservator into, you know, you know,

15:02

strengthen up some of the, so

15:04

the paper. So like I still

15:06

have the original Dark Planets book,

15:08

which I note, as I said,

15:10

it definitely was modular because you

15:13

can see where I used a

15:15

different paper to add elements to

15:17

it and then the whole thing

15:19

was taken to a photocop here

15:21

and I just copy it off.

15:24

But yeah I have a lot

15:26

of it. So I've revived my

15:28

game world. Are you tempted to

15:30

bring yours back to life? No?

15:32

I mean there's potential to maybe

15:34

use the map probably as the

15:37

basis for drawing a new map

15:39

but I think it was... I

15:41

think as a storytelling experience, it

15:43

was very, it was very reactive,

15:45

which is probably why it grew

15:48

as well. So bouncing off, it

15:50

was interesting to bounce off all

15:52

these players in each of them

15:54

would bring their own character to

15:56

it, their personality to it, their

15:58

ideas. I would take elements of

16:01

that and sort of bind them

16:03

into the world. There is a

16:05

lot of world building in there,

16:07

but probably, I don't think I'd

16:09

necessarily want to revisit you. I

16:12

know that you're a prolific reader

16:14

and do lots of research. When

16:16

I look at the diss sanction,

16:18

I remember that you used to

16:20

send images of piles of books

16:23

that you were using as research.

16:25

So would you start on something

16:27

like that and how do you

16:29

get that inspiration from history?

16:31

I think I fooled you.

16:33

I'm a prolific buyer of

16:36

books. Oh yeah. My assumption

16:38

is that I can absorb

16:41

some of the knowledge purely

16:43

by sitting closely. But

16:45

normally I am in my

16:47

opinion a really slow reader.

16:49

So I will, but what

16:51

I will normally do is

16:53

there will be something that

16:55

triggers, there will be a

16:57

trigger point, a catalyst, an

16:59

idea, I will have read

17:01

something in one book and

17:03

I will try and research

17:05

around it. And oddly as it

17:08

might seem, it's odd to buy them.

17:10

It's a bit like the experience of

17:12

going into a bookshop and buying a

17:15

horrible history's book seems a bit odd,

17:17

but it's normally a good place to

17:19

start because if you start with like

17:21

a horrible history, you're going to do

17:24

historical gaming, it's either that or a

17:26

girl supplement, so you know where you're

17:28

going to go. It's useful to start

17:31

small and just sort of build out

17:33

from it. So, you know, whatever the

17:35

case, like recently doing a supplement. which

17:38

was based in early Victorian periods,

17:40

was exactly that sort of situation.

17:42

Each person will have a certain

17:45

amount of history that they know,

17:47

or a think they know, but

17:49

I find it useful to go

17:52

to literally a almost horrible histories

17:54

or a child, a school level

17:56

sort of textbook, because they're, you

17:59

know, the. not only the simplification

18:01

but you'll have a lot of

18:03

information crammed into small sections so

18:05

you can just pick out where

18:07

where everything was what the state

18:09

of technology and so forth was

18:12

and then just build out from

18:14

there because otherwise you end up

18:16

with stacks and stacks of books which

18:18

you never ever read. She talked about

18:20

a spark so what was the spark

18:23

for the desanction and for those who

18:25

don't know desanction or just

18:27

what's the pitch for that? So the

18:29

pitch for the desection is, it is,

18:31

it's our world, but the common fears,

18:34

concerns, and sort of outcry about

18:36

the ideas of the supernatural and

18:38

magic, which at the time would

18:40

have been an excuse to say,

18:42

you know, something's gone wrong, will

18:44

blame it on magic and the

18:47

person in the village that we

18:49

don't like, which unfortunately went all

18:51

the way up to the court

18:53

level, you know, the queen and

18:55

the courtiers would have, would potentially

18:57

have had these... thoughts as well.

18:59

The idea is that magic does

19:01

exist, but it has up until

19:04

King Henry VIII, it's been held

19:06

in check by the faith and

19:08

the belief of the population, and

19:10

then Henry knocks all the monasteries

19:12

down effectively to sort

19:14

of rampages across the country,

19:16

takes all the treasure, kicks

19:18

out all the monks and

19:20

the other people in these

19:23

places, and it weakens the

19:25

other people in these places,

19:27

and it weakens the... the

19:29

sort of fabric of our

19:31

reality allowing bad things to

19:33

creep through. And so John

19:35

D, who is the Queen's

19:37

advisor, alchemist, astrologer and all

19:39

sorts of general polymath in

19:41

the game, convinces her that

19:44

there is a need to

19:46

protect the newfound British Empire.

19:48

And so at the time,

19:50

you would basically, there was,

19:52

there were a bunch of

19:54

acts of parliament which said,

19:56

if you use magic, you'll

19:58

be punished, often tortured. sometimes

20:00

killed. And D says, no, why kill?

20:02

Why kill people? We can use them

20:04

as our tools. So within the game,

20:06

players are those tools. They are agents

20:08

of D who participate in something called

20:10

the D sanction, which is a adjustment

20:12

to the 1563 or 4. I trip

20:15

over this one. Act of against witchcraft

20:17

enchantment and conjuration, which basically said if

20:19

you use magic, you will be potentially.

20:21

kills. So the desanction is an adjustment

20:23

to that act. And that was only

20:25

repealed in the 50s wasn't it? All

20:27

sorts of things haven't been repealed. Yeah,

20:29

yeah, yeah, yeah. It got adjusted a

20:31

bunch of times just in the 1500s.

20:33

Yeah, a bit like Denver journeys. Yeah.

20:35

So yeah, so that's the idea upon

20:37

the game. The adventures. Part of the

20:39

thing I pick up decent. This is

20:41

an admission from me. Pick up a

20:43

desanction. and I don't really know where

20:45

to start. You know, I sometimes can

20:47

quickly jot down some ideas for adventure.

20:49

So what could the players do? Where

20:51

do you suggest to the start? I've

20:53

got my horrible histories. Where do I

20:55

go? What kind of things can the

20:57

players do? Your last question actually was

20:59

about the spark of it. Yeah. And

21:01

so normally, bizarrely enough for a desanction,

21:03

generally I think the spark was the

21:05

name. I don't know why it came

21:07

into my head. Yeah, yeah, but it

21:09

seemed like an interesting name for a

21:11

game. I don't know why it came

21:13

into my head. I think I must

21:15

have been reading about the D for

21:17

some reason, but that actually is also

21:19

where you should start, I think, as

21:21

a potential game master, is if you

21:23

simply pick up, whether it's probably a

21:25

book along from the horrible histories or

21:27

looking at the Elizabethan court or John

21:29

D as an individual, the court. of

21:31

Queen Elizabeth full of chances and

21:33

D was kind of

21:36

one of them

21:38

saying, I can turn

21:40

lead into gold

21:42

or I can do

21:44

something like that.

21:46

And they would say,

21:48

but I can

21:50

only do it if

21:52

you give me

21:54

10 ,000 pounds. And

21:56

then what they actually

21:58

tended to do

22:00

is then go off,

22:02

buy some gold.

22:04

So the next time

22:06

they went to

22:08

court, they said, look,

22:10

I've made gold.

22:12

Yeah. Can you give

22:14

me another 10 ,000

22:16

pounds? If you

22:18

look at the kind

22:20

of cons that

22:22

people were getting up

22:24

to or the

22:26

basis for the cons that

22:28

they were pursuing, some of them

22:30

would genuinely believe a little element

22:32

of what they were doing. Because

22:35

otherwise they couldn't come across as

22:37

honest or truthful. Looking at what

22:39

they believed, the little elements of

22:41

it. One of the adventures for

22:43

the desanction was sparked by the

22:45

fact I read that

22:47

there was a belief that

22:50

the soul was embedded

22:52

in the fingernails and yes,

22:54

somehow the fingernails were a

22:56

reflection of your soul. And

22:58

I just started reading around

23:00

it and looking what other

23:02

elements, why was this a

23:04

belief? This was something tied

23:06

up probably in some religious

23:08

text that made a reference

23:10

to something. And you just

23:12

then allow yourself to rabbit

23:14

hole to spiral around the

23:16

subject. Another

23:18

good source is Wikipedia

23:21

and the like. If only

23:23

because if you start

23:25

reading around the subject, you'll

23:27

inevitably find something you trip

23:29

over, rabbit hole into and

23:32

then start, you know, your

23:34

tumble down into one page

23:36

after another of weird and

23:38

wonderful theories and historical notes

23:40

and things like that. So

23:42

I've got to look out for chances

23:44

getting government contracts. Yes.

23:46

Yes. Yep. Effectively.

23:48

Okay. I have to

23:50

look for some inspiration for that. You've

23:53

now taken the rule set because just

23:55

to talk about the rule set, yeah, made

23:58

that generically available. applicable

24:00

to different settings. So, how

24:02

do you sanction work and

24:04

what would you say the

24:06

three highlights of the rules?

24:08

Judge Baldowskin. Oh dear, what

24:10

pressure? So, to give you

24:12

a little tiny bit of

24:15

background on de -sanction as an

24:17

idea came to me in

24:19

2014. And

24:21

I spent about

24:23

six years after that running

24:26

a lot of adventures without actually

24:28

having a firm rule set.

24:30

So, at one point it used

24:33

tokens and cards and it

24:35

had various, there were variations on

24:37

it that meant that, I

24:39

think one session I ran at

24:41

a con, I actually

24:43

gave up on the rules and just

24:45

ran the adventure on the fly with like

24:48

just rolling a die for like a

24:50

50 -50 chance of success on things. Although,

24:52

actually I might be even full gone the

24:54

die. When I was

24:56

later on, when I was

24:58

thinking more about the

25:00

system, one thing I find

25:02

quite interesting when I'm

25:04

looking at systems is working

25:06

out the sort of the

25:09

most basic way of creating

25:11

the same experience. So, you

25:13

know, if we go back

25:15

to dangerous journeys, for example,

25:17

when you create a character,

25:19

most of their skills are around

25:21

the 50 % mark and yet

25:23

Gary Gygax threw a D100 into it,

25:25

a whole bunch of modifiers for

25:27

what was effectively a 50 -50

25:29

chance of success. And I think

25:31

what I looked at and decided

25:33

on was, well, isn't a really simple

25:35

way of doing that, almost

25:37

flipping a coin or a four

25:40

-sided die? Or yeah, and in

25:42

that case, why not just

25:44

roll a four -sided die? Why, what

25:47

nuance are you expecting to find

25:49

in rolling D100 if ultimately

25:51

it's just 50 -50? And so,

25:53

at the heart of the system,

25:56

it is the idea was

25:58

if you throw a 50 -50. on a

26:00

D4, there's a one, one and a

26:02

two is a fail, three and a

26:04

four is a success. If you then

26:06

step it up and you're slightly more

26:08

skillful, you roll a D6 and the

26:10

one and the two is still your

26:12

failure. And so the big of the

26:15

die, you're just slowly incrementing above the

26:17

50 and the 60 and then 70,

26:19

18 and so forth. Weirdly enough, that's

26:21

the core of the system. The idea

26:23

is that most people have a 50-50

26:25

chance to success at the things that

26:27

they're okay at, because again, if you

26:29

look at character sheets for lots of

26:31

games, I'm sure you can think of

26:33

some character sheets for certain games where

26:35

you sit there, you have lots of

26:37

skills which are moderately okay, and then

26:39

you end up with a bunch of

26:41

points at the end that you just...

26:44

assigned to a few random skills on

26:46

the chance that you, you know, maybe

26:48

one day you're going to need anthropology.

26:50

So let's throw three points of skill

26:52

into it. Maybe we'll roll it. And

26:54

it felt like that was a bit

26:56

of an odd way to create a

26:58

character. So the sanctioned system uses the

27:00

approach that you're only the most key

27:02

skills of the ones that make you

27:04

shine as a as a character. And

27:06

so when it comes to a... a

27:08

challenge, a situation where you have to

27:10

step up and do something to move

27:13

the story along. Those are the elements

27:15

that your character actually comes to the

27:17

fore. And you make, you, so you

27:19

will only have a very small number

27:21

of skills written down. The rest of

27:23

them are those ones which on your...

27:25

game, another game, your character sheet would

27:27

have a few points in. The ones

27:29

that we're interested in, the ones where

27:31

you actually put the 50 or 60

27:33

or 70 percent, it means that the

27:35

character generation process is far more straightforward.

27:37

You just choose the one of the

27:39

three things you're really good at. Within

27:42

the system itself, I use tables which

27:44

create a very simple life path. So

27:46

it's almost what did you used to

27:48

do, what changed, and what hobby do

27:50

you do? have, for

27:52

example, and you just

27:54

roll on these

27:56

tables and it offers

27:58

you a selection

28:00

of skills to choose

28:02

from and you

28:04

choose three out of

28:06

that. And that's

28:08

what shows your character, what's

28:11

what your character's good at and why

28:13

they're good at it because of what brought

28:15

them into the situation they're in

28:17

now. The bits that stand

28:19

out for me for the system

28:21

are it's the focus on

28:24

the characters. It's the fact

28:26

that because the characters each

28:28

have a things that they are

28:30

good at and can shine at

28:32

and which kind of automatically gives

28:34

the players a bit of a

28:36

spotlight because they will be probably

28:38

the only people who have a

28:41

skill that relates to the situation.

28:43

There's a simplicity to it. You

28:45

can create characters very quickly. As

28:47

a gamer, I haven't very

28:49

rarely played a game long enough

28:51

to be that concerned about the

28:53

legacy of a character and worrying

28:56

about reaching 20th level or whatever.

28:58

And so for me, having characters

29:00

that can just shine in the

29:02

moment are easy to create. That's

29:04

important to me at least. And

29:06

it means also as a GM

29:09

at conventions, it's a lot easier

29:11

to be able to bring the

29:13

game to the table because you

29:15

can create the characters there and

29:17

then rather than pre -gening, having that

29:19

pre -generated character, you can bring blank

29:22

character sheets and five minutes later

29:24

you've got a character on the table.

29:26

Third thing that stands out. But

29:32

you subtitle it, a

29:34

challenge led game. So

29:37

what do you mean by

29:39

that? So it connects into that

29:41

opportunity for characters to shine

29:43

in the moment. The fact that

29:45

it is those skills are

29:47

what makes your character stand out.

29:49

And so the challenges that

29:51

they come up against, each person

29:54

is sort of defined by

29:56

their opportunities to meet those challenges.

30:00

and you've produced some settings for

30:02

it, you know. So do you

30:04

want to just run through a

30:06

couple of those? Yeah. I mean,

30:09

this is probably where the... the

30:11

the PBM side of things comes

30:13

in that notion of creating so

30:16

many games it for me sanctions

30:18

an opportunity for my my wayward

30:20

brain to be able to create

30:22

lots of material on lots of

30:25

different things without too much focus

30:27

so amongst the settings so far

30:29

there is for example the one

30:32

I mentioned before is Victorian game

30:34

in the midst of shades which

30:36

basically takes the Victorian era and

30:39

turns it on its head. Victoria,

30:41

lots of people believe in ghosts.

30:43

There's this sort of view, it's

30:45

a romantic view of the media,

30:48

you know, people gathered around the

30:50

table that the medium reaching out

30:52

to the spirit world and in

30:55

the midst of shades, it's the

30:57

opposite way around. Nobody believes in

30:59

ghosts, but they are very much

31:02

real and only the characters and

31:04

a few others are actually... aware

31:06

that they exist and it leads

31:08

them into a situation where they

31:11

are battling against these spirits that

31:13

are nom. by no means at

31:15

rest and have to be dealt

31:18

with but the people around them

31:20

can't see the ghosts they don't

31:22

believe in the ghosts and so

31:25

the characters are challenged by we're

31:27

saving the world but everyone's treating

31:29

as like we're crazy and they're

31:31

lost in the folds sort of

31:34

vaguely science fiction if you've you

31:36

are a residence of a what

31:38

is an enclosed community which is

31:41

an enclosed community which is an

31:43

enclosed community which seems to be

31:45

completely contained within a space, but

31:48

you don't really understand that, that

31:50

you are enclosed, it's just the

31:52

world that you're in, but that

31:54

world is threatened by the fact

31:57

that it's actually part of a

31:59

network of similar... communities and the

32:01

system that's running it basically has

32:04

a really simple imperative that if

32:06

something goes wrong the best way

32:08

to deal with it is to

32:10

move the resources to the areas

32:12

that are still working and it

32:14

does that by just cutting everything

32:16

in half it shuts down half

32:18

of everything that's currently running and

32:20

diverts all the resources so the fold

32:22

is literally here's all the communities

32:24

something's going wrong over here shut

32:27

all those down and they It

32:29

moves everything over. Oddly enough, the

32:31

community you're in, for some reason

32:34

that the number of communities created

32:36

was an odd number. So every

32:38

time there's a fold, you are

32:41

trapped in one of the fractional

32:43

communities and you don't realize it.

32:45

But that's creating all sorts of

32:47

weird side effects in the world

32:49

around you. Yeah, you have to

32:52

read it to really get it.

32:54

In the sanction book, there's a

32:56

setting called The Agency. which is

32:58

my fascination in part with

33:00

Slow Horses and my Karen's

33:03

sort of espionage series where

33:05

you are playing members of

33:08

the... Your members of the

33:10

factory, which is the slang

33:13

term for the intelligence organization

33:15

you work for, but you

33:17

have done something wrong. You've

33:20

messed something up. You miscalculated

33:22

a spreadsheet. You didn't assign

33:25

resources to an operation, right?

33:27

Whatever. So you've been slung

33:30

out into what's called a

33:32

clearance outlet in a small

33:34

town expected to basically run

33:36

the worst possible. background admin

33:39

jobs and inevitably though you

33:41

get drawn back into service

33:43

by the fact that there's

33:45

always something going on and

33:48

so the players are playing

33:50

these somewhat failed agents who

33:52

still have something to bring

33:54

to the service. Yeah that's

33:57

been an interesting one to

33:59

write. without, it's meant reading

34:01

lots of John McCarry and as,

34:03

and, and, and, and so forth,

34:06

to get a bit of a

34:08

background in, in, in the espionage

34:10

side of things. So that's, that's

34:12

been fun. Fun to research. Yeah.

34:15

Yeah. And I know that, you're

34:17

always producing. I bought one of,

34:19

uh, all rolled up mystery boxes.

34:21

and it contains everything you need

34:24

to start playing. Yeah. Including a

34:26

little scenario. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Just

34:28

on a page. A little game.

34:30

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So where did

34:33

it come from? Is it these,

34:35

it's just like a fever brain

34:37

trying to grab old of ideas?

34:39

I think fever brain would definitely

34:42

be it. Yeah. I mean, so

34:44

yeah, like the, if what you

34:46

got was the all rolled up

34:48

RPG. Yeah, which is one of

34:50

the things in the boxes. So

34:53

it's just it's just a matter

34:55

of often having a little idea.

34:57

Something that I read, something that

34:59

I've noticed creating a game around

35:02

it. In the case of the

35:04

all rolled up, RPG, I think

35:06

literally fulfilled just said to me,

35:08

I need something to put in

35:11

one of these boxes. And I

35:13

know, you know, if you go

35:15

on online to drive through or

35:17

itch or whatever, it seems to

35:20

be full of... of ideas that

35:22

can be condensed down to a

35:24

folding pamphlet sheet of paper. So

35:26

it was kind of like the

35:28

challenge, can I come up with

35:31

a fancy game, I think in

35:33

this case that will fit on

35:35

a single A4 sheet. Yeah. Yeah.

35:37

So what's the current project? Is

35:40

it still developing more sanctioned ideas

35:42

or are you going back to

35:44

some of your other projects? The

35:46

key thing is what are the

35:49

current projects? Yeah, because it's definitely

35:51

a case of having if it

35:53

feels like if I've only got

35:55

one if I've only got one

35:58

thing to work on I will

36:00

end up dead ending myself

36:02

and you know staring staring at

36:04

the computer or a sheet of

36:07

paper going where's this going

36:09

how's this going to work out

36:11

so at the moment sanction has

36:13

a few other settings that I

36:15

want to develop one of which

36:17

for example is a like a

36:20

prequel to the desanction, which deals

36:22

with that period when all the

36:24

monasteries were being knocked down, but

36:26

it's more like sort of treasure

36:28

hunters going out and trying to

36:30

get to the treasure before the

36:32

king grasps all the the valuables,

36:35

and that's called Safety Lies in

36:37

Fear. There is a science fiction

36:39

game called Divided Horizons, which has

36:41

been bubbling rather like desanction did.

36:43

I've got a rough idea of

36:45

the system. I know... broadly what

36:47

the background is and it's basically

36:50

sort of a colony ship heading

36:52

out into the universe and trying

36:54

to find new worlds to inhabit

36:56

only to discover when they arrive

36:58

at the first world that the

37:00

drive system of the ship actually

37:02

destroys the fabric of

37:05

space because well every time it

37:07

was it's only been tested properly

37:09

by sending ships out and each

37:11

time the ships have gone out

37:13

they've found out it starts to

37:15

destroy the fabric of space. So

37:17

you can't go home and tell

37:19

them that the technology is destroying

37:21

the universe. You have to find a

37:23

way to actually solve the problem while

37:25

you're out and about or find a

37:27

way to tell home. through some of the

37:30

technology. So the idea of the game is

37:32

that you've got a ship, it's got 100

37:34

colonists on it, each of those colonists is

37:36

a potential character for you to play, and

37:38

it's a bit more like a rural red

37:40

shirts here, where you are probably going to

37:43

die along the way, but you need to

37:45

find a solution. If you don't find a

37:47

solution, the campaign has an end point

37:49

to it. Eventually, everybody dies on the

37:51

ship. slightly depressing but you've reached the

37:53

end of the campaign or you managed

37:55

to find a way to communicate home

37:57

so I'm trying to get the sort

37:59

of modular aspect that together, the idea

38:02

that you need to be able to

38:04

gather and build up technology and to

38:06

keep a record of that, and at

38:08

the same time you can play all

38:10

sorts of characters to your members of

38:13

the crew without necessarily having a long-term

38:15

sort of Captain Kirk type figure

38:17

who's in charge of the ship. And

38:19

desection, I am working on a, it's

38:22

not a new addition, I'm not incrementing

38:24

the number, I want to do another

38:26

hardback version of it. similar to when

38:29

I released it originally back in 2021,

38:31

but I want to include more

38:33

adventures and material in it because

38:36

one challenge is reaching wider markets.

38:38

At the moment, I mainly deal

38:40

in quite terse, you know, short

38:42

books, which have a lot of,

38:45

you know, sort of basic ideas,

38:47

simple systems. It's a lot harder

38:49

to sell books like that when

38:52

you go to a distributor and

38:54

say American and say, Can you

38:56

distribute this for me? So I

38:59

want desanction to be a bigger,

39:01

a bit of a bigger, chunkier book

39:03

with more material in it in the

39:05

hopes that I can potentially find a

39:08

wider audience because it's all these renaissance

39:10

fairs and people fascinated by the English

39:12

in America. It would be nice to

39:14

maybe see if I can sort of

39:16

break more of the gaming market by

39:19

coming up with a bigger sort

39:21

of splashier version of desanction. So

39:23

that's probably going to kick start

39:25

earlier. sort of March, so this

39:27

year, so I've got a lot

39:30

of work to do, but I've

39:32

already wrangled in some potential guest

39:34

stars to do some adventures for

39:36

that. I find having some adventures

39:38

for it useful, because I was

39:40

saying earlier, it's just knowing where

39:43

to start, and I think having

39:45

their adventures kind of kick it,

39:47

starting to make up ideas, so that's

39:49

great. Well, thanks, Paul, for... Being here

39:51

stayed out at the interview, I think

39:53

you're the embodiment of just get on

39:55

and do it. Oh,

40:05

get me coats! Ah, we're

40:07

wandering towards the door and we've met

40:10

up with our coats on and we're just...

40:12

We're not going to feel the benefit

40:14

outside. It's quite cold. It's January and we've

40:16

had a grug meeting in January so

40:18

we're going to have a chat about that.

40:20

Hello there, Bligh there. Hello there, Doug. Yeah,

40:23

you just caught me actually. I was

40:25

just having a read of her. It

40:27

promises me this

40:29

article that it

40:31

cures eye bags. I'm

40:34

just having a read of

40:36

it. Cures eye bags? What?

40:38

What? Bags under your eyes?

40:40

Yeah, I suffer badly from

40:42

bags under my eyes. But

40:44

it's talking about tea bags

40:46

and pillows and micro -doors in

40:48

on Botox. I think that's

40:50

beyond my... I might

40:52

do the tea bags but... I think

40:54

the answers were glasses. I

40:57

think if you wear glasses it masks them

40:59

a little bit. Even though the glasses

41:01

are transparent, it just masks the eye bags

41:03

a bit, doesn't it? Yeah, well, thank

41:05

you. Cheaper than Botox. Thanks

41:08

for the cosmetic advice. That's what people

41:10

come for. I was going to

41:12

ask you, what were your

41:14

highlights of Grug Meet this time? My

41:18

highlights? Well, in

41:21

terms of games, well,

41:24

I enjoyed it all.

41:26

I ran some old

41:28

school essentials in the Midlands, which

41:31

I think is very enjoyable. Midlands

41:33

is good, isn't it? I think with old school

41:36

essentials, I have a lot of time for

41:38

old school essentials. I like it, but I do

41:40

sometimes think it needs a bit of character

41:42

injection into it because it can

41:44

be a little bit bland, I

41:47

think, on its own, to me.

41:49

And I played some Vesin, which I

41:51

enjoyed, with some fan mic. But

41:55

if I had highlights, I suppose, it

41:57

would have to be... One highlight would

41:59

have to be... That's been the great

42:01

race, wouldn't it? Yeah. The

42:04

bonkers, multi-table. I don't idea

42:06

what was going on. Because

42:08

I think what's interesting about

42:10

it is, as a GM,

42:12

you're running your table and

42:15

one reality. We should describe

42:17

what, explain what that is.

42:19

Me interjecting in a rawish-stuit

42:21

type way. We should explain,

42:23

I'm assuming everyone knows what

42:26

it is. Although I'm always

42:28

where are you giving any

42:30

spoilers, I don't want to

42:32

give out too many spoilers.

42:34

Yeah, we'll give away too

42:37

much spoilers, but it's a

42:39

multi-table adventure for caller Cthulhu,

42:41

which Paul Fricka, who was

42:43

in attendance and had helped

42:45

us to prepare for this.

42:48

It's set in the 1920s,

42:50

Great Gatsby, the character from...

42:52

the famous novel is one

42:54

of the characters and the

42:57

investigators are invited around to

42:59

his house for a garden

43:01

party and that that's kind

43:03

of a kind of a

43:05

mild-mannered summer's afternoon which starts

43:08

to go awry and across

43:10

the tables there's a lot

43:12

of moving of players around

43:14

the room going into separate

43:16

rooms and encountering strange and

43:19

wonderful experiences so it we

43:21

had 40 players and we

43:23

had seven tables there was

43:25

at least six additional keepers

43:27

supporting the action so so

43:30

how was it for you?

43:32

As I say, I think

43:34

the interesting thing as a

43:36

GM in it is you

43:38

are running a table, which

43:41

is, and again, no, it's

43:43

not too much to spoil

43:45

this, but it's one reality

43:47

of many, isn't it? One

43:49

reality of many, and people

43:52

are moved from one reality

43:54

to another, and as you

43:56

say, weird things happening in

43:58

between. was a GM, you

44:00

don't really know what's going

44:03

on anywhere else. So I think

44:05

Graham landed at my table and

44:07

he looked to me for hints about

44:10

what's going on and I said

44:12

to him, I don't know what's

44:14

going on. I'm just running this

44:16

world, whatever's gone on

44:18

in that room with a strange

44:20

woman with a hooded cloak on.

44:22

I have no idea. I have no

44:24

idea. I have genuinely no

44:26

idea. So I'm just running

44:28

my reality. It is kind of weird,

44:31

I suppose kind of weird from

44:33

a GM's perspective, because when you're

44:35

a GM normally, you do know what's going

44:37

on, don't you? Or at least you show,

44:39

you know, the idea that you do know

44:41

what's happening in its entirety, but in

44:43

that, you don't, you don't, you don't, you

44:45

don't know what's happened at the table

44:47

they've come from, and you don't

44:50

know what's happened when they've been

44:52

whisked off into the netherworld and

44:54

had this real experience in the

44:56

real experience in the room. So they

44:58

were coming to me with strange

45:00

clues and ideas, but I had

45:02

no idea what they were talking about.

45:04

Because it's a very, she came quite

45:07

a unique experience from a GM's

45:09

perspective, I think. I didn't quite

45:11

dawn on me until about two thirds

45:13

of the way through it, where I thought, well,

45:16

actually, yeah, this is weird, because I

45:18

know what's going on, I know the

45:20

plot, and I know what the place have

45:22

to do. But some of the things they're

45:25

talking about, and some of the stuff

45:27

they're doing. It just makes sense to

45:29

me. Well, but the Golden Rule, of

45:31

course, of investigative games, you normally

45:33

say, don't throw in any red

45:36

herrings because the players will generate

45:38

their own red herrings. But when

45:40

they're whisked away and they're travelling

45:42

through a dimension into a different

45:44

room, they're kind of bombarded with

45:47

a sensory experience. which gives them

45:49

some clues to what's going on.

45:51

It's got a vague resemblance to

45:53

what's happening on the table. But

45:55

I think what was happening is

45:57

that people's imaginations were kicking. in

46:00

and they were making more of what

46:02

was presented to them as you naturally

46:04

would yeah and the conjectures were presented

46:06

to the GMs and of course you

46:08

you were thinking what was it exactly

46:10

with was that comfort yeah exactly where's

46:12

that come from a whole rest of

46:14

time there was two or thing yeah they'd

46:17

yeah the honey buy just one or well

46:19

some guy followed it into the ones it's

46:21

totally meaningless it's totally meaningless it's all wasted

46:23

time yeah no no it was a good

46:25

it was great it was great experience

46:28

great experience It's a really good

46:30

experience, I think, kind of, like I

46:32

say, unique experience really, both

46:35

from the player's perspective and from

46:37

the GM's perspective. But

46:39

my only regret was that as a

46:41

GM I couldn't play it. So

46:43

people who were taken off into the

46:45

strange locked rooms for a weird

46:47

experience. Of course, as a GM,

46:50

you don't experience that. So... Yeah.

46:52

It's an ambition of mine to

46:54

have... done it and we're so

46:56

pleased that we did manage to

46:58

do it because you need to

47:00

have certain conditions to be able

47:02

to do it and having a

47:04

convention like we have the privilege

47:06

to run. There's an ideal opportunity

47:08

in it to do it so

47:10

I'm so pleased that we did

47:12

it because it was a unique

47:14

experience and Paul was explaining that

47:16

it's never really been done at that

47:19

scale that we did it and it's

47:21

thanks to the keepers. both who were

47:23

running the tables and the

47:25

extra keepers that he'd run. It

47:28

was chaotic, but it was organized

47:30

chaos. It was planned and

47:32

people knew what they were

47:34

doing, sort of. Well everyone,

47:36

I think everyone knew, everyone

47:39

knew, anyone running it. GMs,

47:41

extra GMs, people in the nether

47:43

world, all knew what they were doing.

47:45

But of course, none of them had

47:48

a complete overview of what was

47:50

going on in any... other area

47:52

and I think that's what created the chaos

47:54

but at the same time it was

47:56

organized because everyone knew what

47:58

their component there bit was

48:00

if you know what I

48:02

mean. And I stood in the

48:05

middle like a

48:08

Messianic Meglamaniac coordinate.

48:10

You did, didn't you?

48:13

Yeah, you enjoyed that

48:15

I think. Yeah, was

48:17

that your highlight? Yes,

48:19

sure. I did resist

48:21

the temp test on the

48:23

instructions to

48:25

put my role down as

48:27

God. I remember at the

48:29

start of this when we were

48:31

briefing the keepers and we had

48:34

a zoom chat before and didn't

48:36

we? And I said, well, it's

48:38

quite simple. And Paul Fwick said,

48:40

no, no, it's not simple. But

48:42

I think what I was

48:44

trying to say was once

48:46

you've got that idea that

48:48

you're just in cog in

48:50

this process and just concentrate

48:52

on turning around your table,

48:54

everything else will move. Absolutely.

48:56

That is exactly it. Every

48:58

component part is simple, but

49:00

when you add it together,

49:02

becomes very complicated. But the

49:04

brilliance of it is, any

49:06

one individual involved

49:09

in it, running it, at whatever level,

49:11

it's quite easy. I found it quite

49:13

easy to run, because it almost

49:15

ran itself. But as you say, in a

49:17

broader sense, it's quite

49:20

complicated. For players, it's bewildering,

49:22

but it's not bewildering for GM.

49:24

You just run your bet. The

49:27

only people you can think is

49:29

people saying weird things to you

49:31

when they arrive at your table that

49:33

you think, what were we talking about?

49:36

No idea. It's a great experience.

49:38

Yeah, that's probably one of my

49:40

highlights as well. So I'm pleased

49:42

that we managed to do it.

49:45

And again, thanks to everyone who

49:47

made it possible. Hmm. So what

49:49

else did you run then? I ran

49:51

all-school essentials. I ran Doctor Who at

49:54

Mark come afterwards. I don't know that

49:56

counts because that's Mark come, isn't it?

49:58

Fringe, fringe, fringe, I get it. count.

50:00

Thank you to us. But I played

50:02

it. I think the other highlight, the

50:04

other highlight was playing ex-croll

50:06

classics. The new DCC variant

50:09

with Debbie Ram, ex-croll classics. What's

50:11

that then? Is that like a

50:13

souped-up dungeon? What's the concept? I

50:15

must admit, it's an odd, it's

50:17

an odd idea. And when I,

50:19

when I first heard about it,

50:22

I was, I was often am

50:24

with almost everything. As you know,

50:26

I was a bit skeptical. I

50:28

was a little bit, you know,

50:30

what's this, you know? It's like

50:32

the idea where dungeons are a

50:35

kind of spectator sport,

50:37

like a gladiatorial

50:39

spectator sport, like a

50:41

squid game, I suppose, or something

50:44

like that, or the running man,

50:46

you know, that kind of idea.

50:48

So it's an, but the

50:50

more I kind discovered about

50:52

it, it's kind of set

50:55

in a futuristic America.

50:57

I assumed it was a fantasy

50:59

variant so it's not like a

51:01

fantasy world. It does fantasy in

51:03

it but I think the idea

51:05

is that imagine the fantasy world

51:08

of DCC but the future happened so

51:10

there are elves and dwarfs but

51:12

the future happened you know

51:14

as in there's elves and dwarfs

51:16

and there's magic but there's

51:19

also TV and mobile phones and

51:21

cars and all sorts of other

51:23

things and it's like a bit

51:25

of a... I suppose it's like a

51:27

bit of a Roman empire, an American

51:30

Roman empire where they have

51:32

these collateral dungeons that

51:34

are designed to kill people and

51:36

they have these superstar dungeneers

51:39

who are like celebrities who go

51:41

into these dungeons and try

51:43

and survive for the entertainment

51:45

of the masses. So it's like a

51:47

kind of sto- it's like a dystopian

51:50

future I suppose really. Is it a

51:52

player versus player or are you cooperative? No,

51:54

not really. It's more, I mean I suppose

51:56

you could do it like that, but it's

51:59

more cooperative really. But I suppose

52:01

what's interesting about

52:03

it is it's a conceit to avoid

52:05

the question of why is there

52:07

a dungeon here and everything

52:09

having to make sense because you

52:12

know I suppose that when you design

52:14

people design dungeons you always go

52:16

down there and oh well there's

52:18

some going to be some guards

52:21

or medium guards needs to be

52:23

a barracks where the guards sleep.

52:25

Oh well, there needs to be

52:27

somewhere where the guards eat, isn't

52:29

that? We'll have to put that

52:31

in. And there's often a run

52:34

who has rather mundane things for

52:36

the dungeon to make sense. Did

52:38

you see what I mean? Oh, it's

52:40

an ancient temple. Well, or there'll be

52:42

an altar room, or there'll be a

52:44

room where the priests keep the

52:47

robes and there'll be none of

52:49

that, because this dungeon has been designed

52:51

specifically to kill you. So

52:53

it's challenge you. It doesn't

52:55

make sense. It's death trap

52:58

dungeon. Death trap dungeon. It's

53:00

death trap dungeon. But

53:02

I suppose with a modern

53:04

conceit to explain why you're in

53:06

a stupid, why when you walk

53:09

through a door, there's a huge

53:11

a troll or ape stood

53:13

on a platform surrounded by

53:15

boxes which have useful things

53:17

in. But there are bells attached

53:19

to them. and the monkeys's

53:22

blind, the great, the brigade

53:24

was blindfolded. So to get a

53:26

parcel, you had to move them

53:28

without making the noise. That's ludicrous,

53:31

isn't it? That's ludicrous in

53:33

a dungeon, but it's not

53:35

ludicrous because the idea is

53:37

it's been designed to be like that.

53:40

At one point we were on train

53:42

with a giant yeti throwing snowballs

53:44

owls to try and knock the

53:46

train off the tracks. Totally. Totally

53:49

ridiculous. But it's a

53:51

futuristic, almost

53:54

sci-fi design dungeon.

53:56

So it's still ridiculous.

54:00

It is ridiculous. But it's

54:02

like ridiculous with an explanation as

54:04

to why it's ridiculous. If that makes

54:06

sense. Yeah, so yeah, that's good. So

54:08

it kind of, as you say, the

54:10

return of the zoo dungeon, it gets

54:12

rid of the ecology of the dungeon,

54:14

you don't have it. Exactly, yeah, it's

54:16

concealed to get rid of the ecology

54:18

of the dungeon. So you can just

54:20

have a mad cap from dungeon and

54:22

no one can go, oh, this is

54:24

just stupid. Well, yeah, it is

54:26

stupid, but it's been designed to be

54:28

designed to be the point of it,

54:30

but I really enjoyed it and I

54:33

must have met. I've been, you know,

54:35

they all have been looking on leisure

54:37

games and thinking, you know, I'm going to

54:39

end up buying that answer. I'm going

54:41

to end up buying it. Nothing sure.

54:43

Yeah. Well, I like the sound of it

54:46

and it sounds like an

54:48

entertaining convention game. It sounds

54:50

like it's a perfect. Don't

54:52

they call them be even

54:54

pretzels? I don't particularly

54:56

like pretzels, but it's like...

54:58

Fun Pretzels. But they're the boring, I don't like

55:00

prets. I didn't for a long time, you know

55:02

what Prexel was. And when I discovered what they were at

55:04

a time, is that it? So yeah, it sounded better than they

55:07

had, only, prexel. Anyway, there you go. Like beer. One out of the

55:09

two, is it? Well, actually, I don't have to, and after eat the

55:11

pretzels, just of the beer. I, yeah, I revived my mean, I mean,

55:13

I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I

55:15

mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean,

55:17

I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean,

55:20

I mean, I mean, I mean, I

55:22

mean, I mean, I mean, I mean,

55:24

I mean, I mean, I mean, I

55:26

mean, I mean, I mean, I mean,

55:28

I mean, I mean, I again which

55:30

I've run Albert and Wizard Staff and

55:32

the Cotton Hopper Lights it was a

55:34

home game for the Manchester team and

55:36

to give it a bit of a

55:38

variance the way that and the game

55:40

works within the game is that there's

55:42

two rating clocks. I won't go into

55:44

the details here but I gave the

55:46

home team fewer segments to fill because

55:48

in previous games it's not been very

55:50

competitive the slightest layers of... defeated

55:53

the opposition too quickly and so

55:55

to make it a bit more

55:57

excess but it still it still

55:59

ended up that the Slayers

56:01

had an emphatic win. Even

56:04

though Andy Burnside, the mayor

56:06

of Cotton Opelice, was trying

56:09

to throw the game and

56:11

offered them half a million

56:14

pounds to throw the game.

56:16

It sounds like X- crawl,

56:19

it's a similar kind of

56:21

idea isn't it? There you

56:23

go. Maybe there's something

56:25

in the air that

56:28

these competitive games. And

56:30

I ran a couple

56:32

of games of the

56:34

Rackless campaign, so little

56:36

side quests, little convention,

56:39

uh, spin-off shows, you know,

56:41

like those things that

56:43

Disney do, where some

56:46

characters spin-off for a

56:48

million campaign. And, um,

56:50

Mark, who plays Mara, managed

56:52

to do something immediately. after,

56:54

so the campaign that we

56:57

were running finished in summer,

56:59

his character does something away

57:02

from your characters, with his

57:04

group of people that were at

57:06

the convention, which will change the

57:08

fate of the campaign and there

57:10

was a second one as well,

57:12

that changed. So that was quite

57:14

fun, even though only I can

57:16

see what was going on. Once

57:18

again, my missing. You got complex,

57:20

kicking in. You're having more fun

57:23

than anybody else. Exactly, as I've

57:25

said last time. But the highlight

57:27

for me, and this is a

57:29

surprising highlight because I had to

57:31

step in and run a game

57:33

of liminal. And I didn't have

57:35

anything to hand and that's doing

57:37

it quite quickly. And I ran

57:39

your game that you've run for

57:41

us setting the man inside in

57:43

Bolton. You did. Yeah. It's the first

57:45

time ever that you read my scenario

57:47

notes that I've sent you my

57:49

scenario notes. Felt like, felt like you,

57:52

I don't know, going out with the

57:54

next girlfriend or something like that,

57:56

you know. Yeah. You're right, very, very,

57:58

very comprehend. notes are very

58:01

good and I obviously I played

58:03

the game so I had

58:05

an idea of the plot or

58:07

the sequence of events and

58:09

you had all the NPCs and

58:11

all the information there what

58:13

was in scene by scene and

58:15

I think I said to

58:17

you in the morning having read

58:19

through it you're going to

58:21

have to explain to me why

58:23

these people are doing these

58:25

things because obviously your own notes

58:27

you don't need to write

58:29

that very comprehensive notes but missed

58:31

out the motivations of

58:33

these people because that's still

58:35

in my head there

58:37

you go because you don't need

58:39

that's a hand here you don't

58:42

need and I kind of remember

58:44

it from the from the

58:46

game we play but I realized

58:48

that that's it you

58:50

don't you don't appreciate it

58:52

that's the important component

58:54

of delivering authentic NPCs is knowing right

58:56

why are they there what they do what

58:58

they do yeah yeah yeah and I

59:00

suppose that yeah that's kind of interesting because

59:02

you say I do write quite comprehensive

59:04

notes but I often find the two two

59:06

things one of which I've often talked

59:08

about this the thing of I write comprehensive

59:10

notes and they do not look at

59:12

them and then running the game I

59:14

don't look at them which is weird it's

59:17

just like it's putting in my head writing it

59:19

down like that is putting it all in

59:21

my head somewhere that I can draw it out

59:23

of a filing cabinet in my brain when

59:25

I need it but you're right the other thing

59:27

is I write comprehensive notes about things I

59:30

think I might forget

59:32

but as you said the

59:34

motivation of the main NPC for example

59:36

in that scenario I'm not going

59:38

to forget his motivation because that's

59:40

the whole it's all built around that

59:42

isn't it so don't write that

59:44

down yeah it's a weird the weird

59:46

thing isn't it it was they were

59:49

all never written for you weren't

59:51

they they weren't yeah they were but

59:53

yeah and it worked really well

59:55

and it was the first time that

59:57

it really hit home to me

59:59

oh good of a system liminal

1:00:01

is because there's a final

1:00:03

confrontation and it was exciting and

1:00:05

it did some rules that

1:00:07

drove it you know the everyone

1:00:09

felt a sense of jeopardy

1:00:12

because we're facing something that was

1:00:14

quite fearsome but they managed

1:00:16

to overcome it but I think

1:00:18

it really handled that in

1:00:20

a very simple way but it

1:00:22

was exciting and really yeah

1:00:25

it is it is a good

1:00:27

system the way it does

1:00:29

the kind of opposed roles in

1:00:31

that they're not well they're

1:00:33

not really opposed roles are they

1:00:35

but when you're opposing an

1:00:38

opponent it's this basic role plus

1:00:40

their skill and it makes

1:00:42

it if it's a tougher porn

1:00:44

makes it very difficult to

1:00:46

do any damage to them without

1:00:48

spending will and of course

1:00:50

that will economy as well it's

1:00:53

something you've got to look

1:00:55

out for in the game and

1:00:57

consider when you're actually going

1:00:59

to spend will and when you're

1:01:01

not going to spend it

1:01:03

when you're going to fail and

1:01:06

not fail and that kind

1:01:08

of thing so yeah it is

1:01:10

a simple game but it

1:01:12

does does work very very well

1:01:14

and when to activate your

1:01:16

special abilities those really came into

1:01:18

the fore and good tactical

1:01:21

use of those that the appropriate

1:01:23

time really made the difference

1:01:25

and also you appreciate and I

1:01:27

think when I ran this

1:01:29

previously I didn't spend enough time

1:01:31

thinking about this is just

1:01:34

understanding the powers of the opponent

1:01:36

you've got to really be

1:01:38

able to understand what's at their

1:01:40

disposal to make it interesting

1:01:42

and exciting because the monsters have

1:01:44

particular abilities that can really

1:01:46

sway things can't I mean one

1:01:49

of them was you know

1:01:51

if they were under the thrall

1:01:53

of this particular special ability

1:01:55

and all will spends were double

1:01:57

cost so that would really

1:01:59

change things fortunately for them they

1:02:02

managed to resist it had enough conviction

1:02:04

to resist it, but it would have really scuppered the plans

1:02:06

if the will spends were doubled. Yeah, enough people

1:02:08

fall under the spell of someone

1:02:10

and you've know, you're burning will

1:02:12

to just get out of it, but then

1:02:15

you're not left and you need it. Yeah.

1:02:17

Now it is, it's a very, it is

1:02:19

a very good game. And I suppose as

1:02:21

well, that's one of the first scenarios

1:02:23

I've ever written. I'm trying to think

1:02:25

if it is the first that I've

1:02:27

built around something... local that I

1:02:30

know built around something in my

1:02:32

hometown, which I've never really done. You

1:02:34

know, it's like when we've run, I've

1:02:36

run Tales and The Loop, which again

1:02:38

is a game that says set it in

1:02:40

your home to town. You know, you

1:02:42

can do that. I've always set it

1:02:44

in Boulder City in America, because I

1:02:47

just think that this is a

1:02:49

convenient remote setting that you can

1:02:51

just base your games in. But

1:02:53

it was quite interesting to set

1:02:55

it in Bolton. and setting them

1:02:57

on the site and then kind of

1:02:59

suppose delve into the history of the

1:03:01

Earl of Darby and a story starts

1:03:04

to form in your mind like an

1:03:06

alternative history of what he was really

1:03:08

up to and what people were up

1:03:10

to and what might have been going

1:03:12

on, which of course wasn't what was

1:03:14

going on, but it kind of fits

1:03:17

together and you write a story around

1:03:19

the history, you know, just kind of

1:03:21

really interesting thing to do. It

1:03:24

helped I think that one

1:03:26

of the players was his

1:03:29

local was the man inside.

1:03:31

People don't know it's one

1:03:33

of the oldest pubs in

1:03:35

the country and the famously

1:03:38

the Earl of Darby had

1:03:40

his last meal and drink

1:03:42

before he was beheaded outside.

1:03:44

His role in the Bolton

1:03:47

Massacre were over 3,000 people

1:03:49

were killed because we were

1:03:51

I think I mentioned this

1:03:53

in Michael Moorcock when he

1:03:55

was going about Prince Rupert.

1:03:58

It was a parliamentarian. stronghold

1:04:00

wasn't it we were surrounding yeah

1:04:02

yeah royalists and Bolton held out

1:04:04

yeah there was a pub called a

1:04:06

print trooper around the corner wasn't that

1:04:08

yeah yeah it's kind of weird yeah

1:04:11

he was a fickle we could be

1:04:13

involved a fickle very fickle very yes

1:04:15

it's when you look at the history

1:04:17

it seems a little bit we'd have

1:04:19

a print trooper around the corner from

1:04:21

the man's side he's the guy who's

1:04:23

one guy who's executed for the massacre

1:04:25

around the corner a pub named off

1:04:27

the guy did it yeah But so

1:04:30

overall it's the first time we've

1:04:32

run Grogmi in January. Do you

1:04:34

think it worked? I think it

1:04:36

worked. I think we were very

1:04:38

lucky with the weather weren't we?

1:04:40

Yeah. I think I think I think

1:04:42

I think between a snowstorm

1:04:44

and an actual storm. The

1:04:46

hurricane. Yeah. The weekend after

1:04:49

no trains were running north

1:04:51

of Preston because of the wind.

1:04:53

The air force winds which would

1:04:55

have ruined it really wouldn't

1:04:57

it. Because. No one north of

1:05:00

Preston could have come. That would

1:05:02

have been it. Manchester was

1:05:04

a lot calmer, wasn't it? It

1:05:06

was, and I think that was

1:05:08

a benefit. I mean, I must admit,

1:05:10

when I walked into the Lasagarin, I

1:05:13

said to you, I've got this busy

1:05:15

in here, and you said, no, it's

1:05:17

us. It's all the greatest grogmy,

1:05:19

I thought, oh, right, okay. But of course,

1:05:22

if it had been November, it

1:05:24

would have been three times busier

1:05:26

than that. quieter than November,

1:05:28

November, just before the Christmas

1:05:30

markets when things are kind

1:05:33

of getting busier. But yeah. And

1:05:35

we have to think about the

1:05:37

future because it was a bit

1:05:39

tight in the run-up to it.

1:05:41

It was a bit difficult and

1:05:43

preparing it with in the middle

1:05:45

of December with everything that December

1:05:47

brings. But yeah. Do you think I think

1:05:49

that's just a better planning on my

1:05:51

behalf, I think. Yeah, I think the

1:05:54

tricky, yeah, you're right, tricky thing with

1:05:56

it. is that Christmas

1:06:00

in December, from kind of mid-December,

1:06:03

everything seems to grind to a

1:06:05

halt and everyone's mind elsewhere and

1:06:07

our mind's properly elsewhere as well.

1:06:09

So when you pop out the

1:06:11

other side of Christmas, you think,

1:06:13

oh, it's a couple of weeks,

1:06:15

don't blame it, you know. Whereas,

1:06:17

of course, in November, October, November,

1:06:20

that's not the case, is it?

1:06:22

There is that, but I suppose

1:06:24

you just get used to that,

1:06:26

wouldn't you and just adapt to

1:06:28

it, really? My journey home, my

1:06:30

chance to reflect upon the weekend

1:06:32

for quite some time because I

1:06:34

live 35 minutes away from Manchester,

1:06:36

but it took me two and

1:06:39

a half hours to get home

1:06:41

on a rail replacement bus. It's

1:06:43

quite an experience. I remember, I

1:06:45

remember when you moved to Adlington.

1:06:47

I was going to remind you

1:06:49

of this again, because it's cruel

1:06:51

to remind you of it, but

1:06:53

I will do. You moved to

1:06:56

Adlington and you said to me.

1:06:58

It's going to be great this.

1:07:00

There's a train station just around

1:07:02

down the road. There's regular trains

1:07:04

straight to Manchester. I could just

1:07:06

get on the train, get to

1:07:08

Manchester, get back, no problem. And

1:07:10

almost to the day you said

1:07:13

that all that time ago, there'd

1:07:15

be nothing but chaos on that

1:07:17

line. Nothing but chaos. Nothing but

1:07:19

chaos. Yeah. I mean, it didn't

1:07:21

help that the guy who was

1:07:23

driving the rail replacement bus. didn't

1:07:25

have a clue where he was

1:07:27

going and he was playing 90s

1:07:30

techno music very loud for the

1:07:32

entire journey. So I must have

1:07:34

heard the Venga Bus, a remix

1:07:36

of the Venga Bus, about 20

1:07:38

times during the two hours. And

1:07:40

the length of the journey was

1:07:42

extended because he went down, he

1:07:44

was following a map and he

1:07:47

went down a street. And I

1:07:49

said, if you go, I said

1:07:51

to him, you go down here.

1:07:53

You go down here, you're going

1:07:55

to end up in an estate

1:07:57

and you'll get stuck. You're in

1:07:59

a big coach. said, sit down,

1:08:01

sit down, we're not insured for

1:08:04

you standing up. I said, yeah,

1:08:06

but you're going the wrong

1:08:08

way. Anyway, 20 minutes later,

1:08:10

he was having to reverse

1:08:12

for a mile because he got

1:08:14

stuck. So, more chaotic

1:08:17

than Gatsby in the

1:08:19

Great Rail replacement. Put that

1:08:21

down for next year.

1:08:23

Absolutely. She is bliving.

1:08:25

Goodbye. There isn't another bit.

1:08:28

Thanks to Paul for being part

1:08:30

of a successful Grogmeet and thanks

1:08:32

to all the GMs who provided

1:08:34

games over the weekend and to

1:08:36

the players. It's always a convivial

1:08:38

atmosphere and that's down to the

1:08:40

people who come. Thank you. I

1:08:42

want to make a special mention

1:08:44

of Chris Watkins who was a

1:08:47

keeper for the Gatsby event and

1:08:49

that to make adjustments to his

1:08:51

travel plans at the last minute.

1:08:53

above and beyond the call of

1:08:55

duty and at an additional personal

1:08:57

expense. I offered to reimburse

1:08:59

him for the extra cost,

1:09:01

but he being the kind

1:09:04

and gentle person that he

1:09:06

is just wanted me to

1:09:08

pass on a message. Chris

1:09:10

and Joe from Bonamy Games

1:09:12

organised dice on the borderlands,

1:09:14

a minicon held at Chepstow

1:09:17

Castle, which is just 15

1:09:19

minutes away from the M4

1:09:21

M5 Junction. and this year

1:09:23

2025 the free community RPG

1:09:25

event is taking place on

1:09:27

the weekend of Saturday the

1:09:30

10th of May. Booking is

1:09:32

essential via warhorn as space

1:09:34

is limited to seven tables.

1:09:36

I've put a link in

1:09:38

the show notes with a

1:09:40

bit more detail. Thanks for

1:09:42

the patron support for making

1:09:44

drug meat possible for another

1:09:47

occasion. It is really appreciated.

1:09:49

And we've had some new

1:09:51

supporters, so next time we're

1:09:53

going to delve into spellbook

1:09:55

to give out some magic.

1:09:57

If you like what we do, please pass

1:09:59

it. on. Leave a comment

1:10:02

and circulate it on

1:10:04

your socials. If you

1:10:07

don't like what we

1:10:09

do, well, bugger off.

1:10:12

Next time we're extending

1:10:14

the idea of Dr.

1:10:16

D. Last year we looked

1:10:19

at monsters. Why don't

1:10:21

we do the same for

1:10:23

magic? Until then,

1:10:26

Adios Amigos. Well,

1:10:35

well, well, well, well,

1:10:38

bye, bye, bye, bye,

1:10:40

bye, bye, bye, bye,

1:10:42

bye, bye, bye, bye,

1:10:44

bye, well, I don't

1:10:46

take you for lovers

1:10:48

of dusty books. Is

1:10:50

the party brought you

1:10:52

so quickly? Or is

1:10:55

it something here that

1:10:57

you hurt out to

1:11:00

face? You should have

1:11:02

stayed downstairs. Do you

1:11:05

know why I collect

1:11:07

these books? Why I

1:11:10

host these stories? Everyone

1:11:12

thinks it's a day

1:11:15

easy, but it's not.

1:11:17

It's for something far

1:11:20

greater. Greater than love?

1:11:30

That's what I found. And

1:11:33

the lens. What does it

1:11:35

do? I mean, find, find,

1:11:37

find, find, find, find, find,

1:11:39

find, find, find, find, find,

1:11:41

find, find, find, find, find,

1:11:43

find. And something about her

1:11:46

legs. Abs and friends. Laid

1:11:48

itself bare. We bent and

1:11:50

shaped at will. That's, that's

1:11:52

what I found. And the

1:11:55

lens? What does it do?

1:11:57

I really must lay traps

1:11:59

traps. The honey badger has been

1:12:01

in the the again.

1:12:03

again, bustling, nuzzling, it should

1:12:06

not should not put his snout.

1:12:20

The Lens, tell me rather

1:12:23

Lens, what is the Lens? Aaaaaaah!

1:12:26

I'm asking you to change

1:12:28

their minds, but I'm not you

1:12:30

get this. Belenz, it's

1:12:32

a key. A door to knowledge beyond

1:12:34

anything you can imagine. The

1:12:36

stone is out there.

1:12:38

can more than pinpricks

1:12:41

in the dark. out there. They're

1:12:43

more than pinpricks in the dark. If that's

1:12:45

the price for us, then so that's

1:12:47

the But I then so

1:12:50

be it, but I

1:12:52

won't be stopped. by

1:12:54

you, not by anyone. Nuzzle,

1:13:01

Nuzzle! I love the

1:13:03

honey badger!