0:00

I. V. M. Hello

0:10

and welcome to the Habit Coach podcast. I

0:12

am Ashutin Doctor, your Habit Coach. And today

0:14

we have a very interesting episode, something that

0:17

I am extremely passionate about. It is about

0:19

our body and just what amazing

0:21

things it is capable of doing. And we're

0:23

going to understand where we are right now

0:25

and what are the things that we can

0:27

do. We have a guest that I've been wanting

0:30

to interview for a while. I just finished reading his book and

0:32

we're going to be talking about the cutting

0:34

edge of our human body. We're going to

0:36

be talking to Dr. Marcus Rani. Thank you

0:39

so much for joining us. Thank you, Dr.

0:41

Doctor. Dr. Doctor. Thank

0:44

you so much. I loved your book and you know,

0:46

I love the fact that you're a fellow explorer and

0:48

love going to, you know, pushing yourself

0:50

to the edge to understand how our body

0:52

reacts to things. You know, we

0:55

all stay in metro cities, especially

0:57

people listening to this podcast for

0:59

sure. Right. And we are not

1:01

using our bodies the way probably

1:03

it is capable of being used.

1:06

You know, when you see people in our metro cities,

1:08

like what do you think, like, do you want to

1:10

like shake them up and tell them, like, you know,

1:12

there's so much that you can do with your body. What are you doing

1:14

right now? The one place that really pisses

1:17

me off the most is airports. I

1:19

sit there, I'm walking around, I'm trying to get my

1:21

step count in because I can't get any on the

1:23

flight. And I just look around

1:26

and I wonder, you know, what has happened

1:28

to us as a species that has led

1:30

to this? Sedentary

1:32

lives, high calorific access, you

1:35

know, stressed out. Everyone is

1:38

on a call on their phone,

1:40

taking the travelator or the escalator.

1:42

Unfortunately, very worrying study,

1:44

which was just published a couple of weeks ago

1:46

in in in urban India, we

1:49

have over 70 percent

1:51

of our population obese and overweight. Wow.

1:53

I can imagine that. That's ridiculous. And

1:55

our denominators are not small denominators. Yeah,

1:57

they're huge. So it's something which is...

2:00

is hugely frustrating. I

2:02

think philosophically, neither you or I aligned to

2:04

that. We like to be outdoors. We like

2:06

to enjoy everything. And so the

2:09

book, when I wrote it many years ago,

2:11

it's a dedication to my kids with

2:14

the hope that they fall in love with

2:16

the science as much as I do. But

2:18

it's also sort of hopefully my

2:22

seed thought to our species that

2:24

look nature and the outdoors is

2:27

a beautiful place. And you

2:29

can learn and enjoy so much. And here's

2:31

a journey internally to get you there as

2:33

well. So I'm glad you

2:35

enjoyed it. And I hope many people

2:37

watching this will listen to that or

2:39

read that as well. And the

2:42

journey for me started off very similarly to the

2:44

way that you started your book, which was when

2:46

I was extremely unfit. I

2:48

started my fitness journey. And then as my

2:50

first challenge, never having trekked in my life,

2:53

I decided to do EBC. So

2:55

I was on a flight to... That was

2:57

my first trek as well. That was your

2:59

first trek. So I was in

3:02

Kathmandu with a suitcase because I didn't have any

3:04

trekking gear. There was no decathlon or places to

3:06

buy anything. So bought stuff in Kathmandu

3:08

on a flight to Lukla the next day. So that's

3:10

how it started. That's brave

3:12

or stupid. The

3:15

goal was to fail at it. I

3:17

was passing through a phase where I was like, I want to fail at

3:19

things right now. I'm winning everything. I want to fail. It

3:21

was a phase in my life. And

3:25

that's when you suddenly start respecting the body and how

3:27

it adapts because you're there for 14 days and

3:31

the atmosphere and the oxygen suddenly starts

3:33

getting to you. Today, sitting

3:35

at sea level, what are the things

3:37

that we can do to experience what

3:39

our bodies can be capable of? What

3:42

are the steps we should start taking? I think there's a lot.

3:45

I remind people that our body is a

3:47

machine. And like any machine, the more you

3:49

use it, the better it becomes. Any car,

3:52

no matter what make or model or class,

3:55

stuck in a garage for X number

3:57

of months or years, will stop working

3:59

eventually just because. of degeneration and our

4:01

machines are exactly the same. We've got

4:04

an incredible aerobic capacity to do things

4:06

and we're living in a time where

4:09

the corporate social culture is

4:11

embracing marathon running, triathlons, duathlons.

4:13

I think the sales of

4:15

bicycles and pets went up

4:17

through the pandemic, right? So

4:19

people are interested in

4:21

moving and getting out more. So I think

4:23

that's a great way of making

4:25

a first step and some

4:28

of the best runs and I'm a

4:30

part of this amazing little running community

4:32

where we have people joining that have

4:34

never run before and just getting them

4:36

to see their first five or 10k

4:38

run and how exhilarated they feel. Even

4:41

on the trek we're doing this summer that we

4:43

were just talking about, we've got three people joining

4:45

who have never

4:47

been to altitude and four people who've never done

4:49

a big expedition like this before. So that's going

4:51

to be an incredible experience for them and I

4:54

really enjoy being part of that journey. So

4:56

I think that's a great place to start.

5:00

I think the other big area, I'm

5:02

not sure how many of our listeners and viewers are

5:04

approaching that stage in life where the big 4-0 is

5:06

a number chronologically

5:09

for them. Whether you're a man,

5:11

whether you're a woman, you're approaching the

5:13

stage of andropause where hormones are

5:15

changing, muscle mass is rapidly going

5:17

to start declining, bone health is

5:19

going to deteriorate at an unprecedented

5:22

scale. So spending

5:24

time doing resistance form, it doesn't need

5:26

to be in the gym. It could

5:28

be free weights, it could be the

5:30

latest Instagram trend of calisthenics, etc. Making

5:33

sure you're exposing and stimulating

5:35

your muscles and your bone

5:37

health to that. Very, very

5:39

important. And then the other big

5:42

trend in all of this is flexibility and balance.

5:45

It's a natural deterioration as we

5:48

get older. I remember

5:50

my time, I'm aging myself

5:52

now, but 20 years ago almost

5:54

when I did my first orthopedic rotation,

5:57

the consultant told us that anyone who

6:00

comes in with a fractured neck of femur, if they're

6:02

above the age of 70, they have a 70% mortality

6:06

rate within that one year. Wow. And

6:09

that's not because of the break

6:11

in bone, it's the secondary consequences

6:13

of being immobile. Deterration, sepsis, infection,

6:16

blood clots, et cetera. So

6:18

prevention is always gonna be better than cure.

6:20

Probably a theme we'll talk a lot about

6:22

today. So ensuring that you

6:25

have the flexibility, the balance, the muscular

6:27

strength, the bone health, the aerobic capacity.

6:30

These are things that we should be doing

6:32

now at this stage and actually 10 years

6:34

prior. So that we're laying that foundation of

6:36

good habits to hold us

6:39

in good stead when we get older. It's

6:41

so interesting that there are, there's a generation

6:43

that's growing up that has so much exposure

6:45

to exercise. I remember when I was

6:47

growing up, if I was in my 20s and

6:50

I wanted to go to the gym, people would make fun

6:52

of me saying, why do you wanna become Anishwalt Senika? Like

6:55

it was, that was the attitude

6:57

that we had towards physical exercise in

6:59

India, especially. So it's lucky

7:01

that I see these kids wanting to

7:04

be this. You said

7:06

flexibility is important. I'll just

7:08

say something there though, because I'm a

7:10

big believer in the language

7:12

dictates our culture and narrative. And

7:15

every time somebody mentions this to me,

7:17

I try and correct them, which is people

7:20

still use the phrase fitness freak. And

7:23

I immediately remind them and I said,

7:26

freak is something which we associate with

7:28

a negativity. Why don't we call it

7:30

some sort of passion and through fitness

7:33

enthusiasts or fitness lover instead. So

7:35

that we put a positive spin on that

7:37

narrative. It's my pet peeve as

7:39

well. Oh, Ashutin, you're a fitness freak. No, dude,

7:42

I'm doing the normal thing. You

7:44

are lazy. People change the narrative.

7:47

It's the same way when people get on a nutrition

7:49

plan. Like, why are you trying

7:51

to be this diet person? No, dude, I'm just

7:53

like eating like a normal person. Yeah, okay. I

7:55

never use the word diet. I'll always talk about

7:57

fuel. Once you understand your machine. fuel

8:00

is critical to movement

8:02

and just expenditure and then it changes the

8:04

way you think about what you put inside

8:06

of your body. How do you talk about

8:09

nutrition in today's day and age when probably

8:11

nutrition and religion are the two biggest

8:14

firecrackers that you can start talking about.

8:17

Anything you say is going to be

8:20

bounced on. Yeah, especially on social media.

8:22

On social media especially. How

8:24

do you decide what to eat? It's the strangest

8:26

thing. So I keep it really simple. For me

8:29

it's got to be sustainable. I.e. you

8:31

should be able to do it for your

8:33

entire lifetime. And it therefore is not a

8:35

fad which you'll do for a few weeks

8:37

and then be onerous and drop

8:39

out. And it's got to be

8:41

sustainable from a climate perspective as well. Big,

8:44

big challenge facing all of us is going to be what's

8:46

going to happen to our planet in the

8:48

next few years and decades. So keeping

8:50

it local, keeping it seasonal, organic

8:53

practices where possible, being as much

8:55

towards plant-based as possible. These are

8:57

things that help from sustainability,

8:59

from a climate perspective. So that's rule number

9:02

one. Rule number two is

9:04

balancing the macros. So

9:06

I'm not obsessed about calories. Calories

9:08

is just a unit of energy measurement.

9:11

But an apple and a chocolate bar can have

9:13

the same number of calories. One we know is

9:16

clearly good for you. One is not. So

9:18

balancing macros, understanding your body's needs

9:20

based upon your expenditures and therefore

9:23

what you're putting in from protein

9:25

to fat to fiber to carbohydrate.

9:27

That's sort of my second area.

9:30

And the third area is

9:33

is around the micronutrient essentials

9:36

that we require. And the reason

9:38

why this is important is not because

9:40

I'm paid by any pharmaceutical or

9:43

nutraceutical company. I'm not. This

9:45

is because the quality of soil and

9:47

the quality of soil, the quality of

9:50

produce has become so pathetic over the

9:52

last four or five decades that we

9:54

are fundamentally deficient in many of these

9:56

basic micronutrients, which our bodies require

9:59

in order to grow. and

12:00

longevity, and we encourage you to get there.

12:02

So B and D are probably the next

12:04

ones. Omega-3, very important

12:06

cholesterol molecule. Our

12:09

bodies require cholesterol. Anyone who thinks we,

12:11

cholesterol is bad, they have

12:13

a clear misunderstanding. It's

12:15

been vilified by the media. So

12:18

cholesterol is important, particularly the good forms of which

12:20

Omega-3 is the primary source, and you get it

12:22

not just from fish oil capsules, but also now

12:24

there are vegan sauces available as well. So we

12:26

have both of those available for people who need

12:28

it. And then there's a

12:30

long list of, literally hundreds of them.

12:33

At any one point in time, I'm probably to

12:35

answer your question about six or seven. I

12:38

do rotate them around, checking bloods every

12:40

three months, and then giving the body

12:42

a natural rest while I then add

12:44

another one to optimize from that. That's

12:46

great. And do you have herbs as

12:48

well, like Brahmi, Ashwagandha, those kinds of

12:50

herbs? Sometimes I do. So I would

12:53

probably be on a three month course of

12:55

Ashwagandha in the year, and

12:57

similar for the other ones. I like

13:00

curcumin, I like haldi for its anti-inflammatory properties,

13:02

so we use that a lot. So

13:05

yeah, the ones we consume

13:08

and prescribe basis the

13:10

individual's physiology. We'll go up in that. Let's

13:13

talk about the blood work since you touched upon it. So

13:16

you said something very interesting, like most of

13:18

the blood work parameters are of sick people.

13:21

How are these parameters arrived at, and

13:23

what is your take on that? So

13:25

it's basically a bell-shaped curve, right? So

13:27

we're looking at a quote unquote normal

13:29

population. We look at the 67% of

13:31

people that form 80% of that, the

13:35

middle, the big middle, and then you have the people on the

13:37

end. So in a lab reports, what

13:39

a normal range is, it's normal for that curve.

13:42

Now we can understand and appreciate

13:44

that our levels of health has

13:46

deteriorated on all accounts over

13:49

the last five or six decades. So we

13:51

are fundamentally shifting to the right-hand side. Triglyceride

13:54

levels are going up, fasting insulin levels

13:56

are going up, A1C levels are going

13:58

up. And the converse. vitamin B levels

14:00

are going down, vitamin D levels are

14:02

going down, et cetera. So in a

14:04

lab report, something is normal. They're just

14:06

saying normal based on the population that

14:08

they measure a lot of. And

14:10

if the vast majority of that population

14:12

is anyway subclinical in either direction, you're

14:15

gonna be shown as normal even though for

14:17

your physiology, you're not. Correct. So

14:20

what the team and I have

14:22

done is we've studied the global

14:24

literature and we've identified what is

14:26

normal and optimal for

14:28

age and biology. And

14:30

therefore based on the levels that we do

14:33

with the bloods, we're able to then map

14:35

to where are you on those two axis.

14:37

And therefore what do you need to do

14:39

in terms of biohacking, which could be nutrition,

14:41

it could be exercise, it could be sleep,

14:43

it could be micronutrients, it could be hormone

14:45

optimization, it could be so many different things.

14:47

But what do we need to do to

14:50

now get you into the good and then

14:52

the optimal category? Would you also be looking

14:54

at things like the

14:56

ultra fit people or like tribal

14:58

communities that would not

15:01

necessarily have the kind of lifestyle issues that

15:03

we have right now? So it's a bit

15:05

difficult on a data perspective because there's not

15:07

so much out there. So we're quite fortunate

15:09

that we get the opportunity to work with

15:12

some really high performance athletes. The

15:14

team and I, we work with IPL cricketers,

15:17

we work with Olympians, we work with Paralympians.

15:19

So we have access to that and

15:22

we understand what levels they require because

15:24

they really are pushing their body unintended

15:27

to the human edge. And

15:29

folks like you and I are probably

15:32

more weekend warriors but we still want

15:34

to achieve a high level of performance

15:36

and plan for longevity. Then what is

15:38

the optimal status for us there? So

15:40

that's what we can manageable and practically

15:42

do based on those constraints. Because

15:45

it'd be interesting to see what like tribal

15:47

communities, their blood work would be like. Like

15:50

it'd be fascinating. I'm sure wouldn't there be

15:52

data on it? It's

15:54

sufficient. Maybe someone listening might find it and you can

15:56

send it. Send it to us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd

15:58

love to look at that. You versus

16:00

the Maasai warrior, I think they're fantastic. I

16:03

remember a few years ago, my wife

16:05

who is a practicing sports physiotherapist, she

16:08

was consulting

16:11

a group of people

16:13

in the Gen community. I think

16:15

it's the Digumber Gens who undergo

16:17

really prolonged periods of fasting. And

16:21

they, because of that, unfortunately,

16:23

tend to have a lot

16:25

of Osteopenia, which is improper

16:29

bone building, muscle loss,

16:31

Acopenia, etc. So

16:33

she was managing

16:35

some individuals from that community and they just happened

16:37

to have their blood work. And I remember

16:39

at the time seeing the bloods and we

16:42

saw cholesterol levels, which were really

16:44

high that we might consider, okay,

16:46

well, this just seems like this

16:49

is bad, right? But

16:51

actually, if you really think about it, what they're eating

16:53

and how they're eating and their balanced diet, even though

16:55

they're moving, etc. So it would

16:57

be really interesting to see that amongst different

16:59

communities, what is good, what is bad, what

17:02

is normal, what is abnormal, because our definitions

17:04

are very much skewed. It's very skewed because

17:06

where would you find a normal human? Yeah.

17:09

It's the same thing with psychology, right? Where you find a

17:11

normal person. What are the things that

17:14

are exciting you right now in the

17:16

cutting edge of this space that you're

17:18

in? Actually, sit on the other side of the

17:20

spectrum. And I'll explain what I mean. So

17:23

I spend time in high performance and

17:25

I spend time as a longevity physician.

17:28

If we look at the longevity narrative, I mean,

17:30

it didn't exist when I started talking about this

17:32

a few years ago in India, right? People would

17:34

look at me and like, aren't all doctors meant

17:36

to help you live longer? That's

17:38

another area altogether. But

17:41

longevity can broadly be looked at

17:43

a spectrum where on one end you

17:45

have, as you were describing these, innovative,

17:47

cutting edge, new techniques, new therapies, new

17:49

molecules, new devices, etc. And

17:51

that's all really exciting. And

17:54

early adoption is there. Monies are

17:56

now increasingly going towards that direction. For me,

17:58

actually, I'm on the left hand side. which

18:00

is the fundamental good practices of what it

18:02

means to live healthier. Right? I

18:04

don't have an ambition to live forever.

18:07

In fact, anyone who does is probably

18:09

insane. Right? I think humans need an

18:11

expiry date. It's the only way we

18:13

can allow the next gen and innovate

18:15

and problems to be solved. But I

18:17

don't want to live my older years

18:20

in sickness and ill health, as

18:22

I imagine a lot of people share that sentiment.

18:25

And what should we therefore do in

18:27

the decades that we have most control

18:30

over, which is where hopefully we've built

18:32

up a little bit of wealth, we

18:34

have accessibility and affordability, we have a

18:36

little bit more time, and

18:38

we have had that awakening in our

18:40

minds about mortality and this pressing need

18:43

for investment in those later years, which

18:45

typically for people happen in their third,

18:47

fourth, and fifth decades of life. Right?

18:49

Right. So what should we be doing

18:52

in these decades, which will lay a

18:54

really solid foundation so that

18:56

chronic disease happens at a much

18:58

later stage, because inevitably something will

19:01

happen, but the degree of

19:03

slope of drop off should be so

19:05

acute that suffering in is as minimal

19:07

as possible. Right? So that's how I

19:09

look at this world of longevity. So

19:11

there are many conferences and events that

19:13

happen around the world, which are talking

19:16

about all these crazy things. I

19:18

have increasingly sort of slowly withdrawn a

19:20

little bit from that, but what I

19:22

try to focus on is fundamentals of

19:24

good sleep, nutrition or fueling

19:27

the body right. The various ways

19:29

we should be moving and exercising,

19:31

the micronutrients that our bodies require,

19:33

managing and mitigating stress, human

19:36

relationships and connections, joy,

19:39

purpose, gratitude, spending time

19:41

in nature, you know, being an active

19:43

hands-on father whilst my kids still allow

19:45

me to do so. That's where I

19:47

invest my time. And that's how I

19:49

try and encourage other people

19:52

to do this. And it's the core philosophy

19:54

of what we do in our longevity practice

19:56

and the technology that we're building to support

19:58

that as well. family into

20:00

this? How do you? So,

20:03

Ryan and I, we act

20:05

as role models and we realized pretty early

20:07

on that you can't teach your kids anything.

20:09

It's about what you show them or what

20:12

you do. And you know this better than

20:14

I do, right? You're the behavioral coach in

20:16

the room. So, it's that copycat attitude with

20:18

young children that they replicate their parents. And

20:21

our job as parents is just not to

20:23

screw our kids. Screw their minds in any

20:25

way. Just show them good practices and they're

20:27

more likely to copy that going forward. Correct.

20:30

So, as families, we try and plan holidays

20:33

in nature as much

20:35

as we can. You know, we try

20:37

and do active holidays as much as we can. It could

20:40

be skiing, it could be trekking, it

20:42

could be fishing. It's just anything that

20:44

involves that sort of outer activities. And

20:46

then they see their parents doing

20:49

these things at the weekends, whether it's a long run,

20:51

a long walk, going to the gym, all

20:53

of those things. And so, that's how we try

20:55

and sort of bring that

20:57

in. With you and your wife equally

21:00

active people? Yeah, we are. We are.

21:02

Absolutely. I think we probably enjoy different

21:04

things which are natural. But we found

21:06

as a couple that wanting

21:09

to grow together in

21:11

pursuits of interests rather than divergently

21:13

in pursuits of interest is a

21:15

really important thing to

21:18

keep our relationship engaged. And we

21:20

found, therefore, that these types

21:22

of things outdoors is something

21:25

that brings us together. So, every year, once

21:27

a year, we do this big expedition

21:30

and adventure. We

21:32

call it Googlegum, which is our hashtag, which

21:34

is Get Up,

21:36

Get Out, Get Moving. Nice. And

21:38

then over the years, through Instagram

21:40

and social media and all of

21:42

that stuff, we've been trying to

21:44

inspire and bring other people along

21:46

the journey with us. So, that's

21:48

what we're trying to do. That's beautiful.

21:51

Yeah. Okay. So, a big issue that

21:53

many people, especially in Mumbai and the

21:55

listeners, face is sleep. Yeah. Right? Sleep

21:58

has got a bad rep. Because it's a

22:00

wastage of time, people think. What

22:03

is your take on

22:05

sleep? And why is sleep so important for us? Look,

22:07

evolution is such a precise science. Anything

22:13

that's not advantageous to an organism is

22:15

rooted out. Not on time scales that

22:17

we're used to, but on planetary time

22:19

scales. And the

22:21

fact that sleep remains something

22:24

which every life form to

22:26

some degree has, means

22:29

that there is a critical component

22:31

of it which is advantageous to

22:33

the organism. Otherwise, it's pretty weird

22:36

to think that you would effectively

22:38

shut down the machine for eight

22:41

hours in a day, a third

22:43

of our life, and

22:45

leave you prey vulnerable to

22:47

predators around you, right, without

22:49

protection. So clearly, there's

22:52

an evolutionary advantage of doing

22:54

so. Sleep plays many roles.

22:56

Physical recovery, mental

22:58

recovery, emotional growth, all of those

23:01

things. The different phases or components

23:03

of sleep. Deep sleep for physical

23:05

health, REM sleep, which

23:07

is where our dreams happen. That's for

23:10

mental and emotional repair and growth,

23:12

etc. So I think

23:14

these are very important biological principles,

23:17

which increasingly now people are being

23:19

made more and more aware of.

23:23

If we look at any data, whether it's

23:25

the data from our high-performance athletes to

23:28

corporate executives to,

23:30

you know, just health

23:32

conditions like diabetes, insulin

23:34

resistance, neurodegenerative disorders

23:37

like dementia, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's

23:39

disease. There are

23:41

direct links now showing how

23:44

a lack of sleep over

23:46

prolonged periods of time cause

23:48

a deterioration in function and therefore

23:50

health and performance. So it's a

23:52

very powerful drug. It's

23:55

freely available to us and

23:58

we're just not utilizing it to... our

24:00

advantage, which is usually frustrating because it's free,

24:02

perhaps. Yeah, just respect the things that are

24:04

free. You ask any rich man, you know,

24:06

how much they would give for a good

24:09

night's sleep and they probably give you their

24:11

entire kingdom. It's true. It's

24:13

so true. It's one

24:15

of those hard things to understand, right? Like it is

24:17

the most natural thing for babies to be doing and

24:19

somewhere along the line, we've lost it. Yeah.

24:22

Also, there's a theory that we've forgotten how

24:24

to sleep correctly. Right. Like, do

24:26

we have one proper

24:29

full sleep cycle? Do we wake up in the middle of

24:31

the night, walk around, come back? Like

24:33

what format of sleep are humans

24:35

supposed to have has been lost

24:37

to the ages? Yeah. And

24:40

I think it's such a beautiful topic to

24:42

start focusing on as a way. What

24:44

are some of your favorite hacks to get a

24:46

good night's sleep? So magnesium is

24:49

very important because it plays a role

24:52

across, I think something like 600

24:54

different metabolic reactions and pathways, but

24:56

it is a very powerful aid

24:58

for sleeping. It's advantageous

25:00

because it's non-toxic by and large,

25:02

obviously brand dependent. It is

25:05

non-addictive and the profile means

25:07

that you can go to a really high

25:09

dose and you don't need to be too

25:11

worried about physiological reactions

25:13

or adverse events in the

25:15

body. Except pooping. Except,

25:18

except sometimes some people gastrointestinal dis-

25:21

It was a, it was that

25:23

sure, sure thing, whether if you like overdose

25:25

on your magnesium. If you're very, very high,

25:27

ridiculously high levels, but in the dosages that

25:29

we look at, which is typically four to

25:32

600 milligrams per day, there's, there's generally- It's

25:34

perfectly fixed. There's not a problem. Yeah. So

25:37

magnesium for me over the last three or four

25:39

years have been, has been a great addition to

25:41

my toolkit and it's something we prescribe for everyone

25:43

in our longevity practice. The next thing is

25:46

temperature. So the importance of

25:49

core body temperature is

25:51

that as we prepare and get into deep

25:53

sleep, our core body temperature drops as our

25:55

metabolic rate drops. And we

25:57

can assist that by altering the am-

26:00

into temperature around us. So, it's typical

26:02

studies have shown that 17 to 19

26:04

degrees Celsius, you

26:07

know, 60 to 64 degrees Fahrenheit is an

26:09

optimal range. I do appreciate that some people

26:11

find that too cold. Correct. And I have

26:13

many clients and patients who tell me that

26:15

their partner cannot tolerate. I don't have a

26:17

bio hike for that. Are you a man?

26:19

19 degrees. There is now

26:21

a bed. I won't mention the brand. There is

26:23

a bed available where both

26:26

halves of the bread, like a car,

26:28

can be temperature controlled. So, one partner

26:30

can be at a warm, the other partner can

26:32

be at a cold. So, it's expensive, but you

26:34

know, there's a cost to comfort nowadays. And

26:38

hopefully sleeping in the same room, that's

26:40

more important. So, yeah, so temperatures has

26:42

been another big. That's an interesting one.

26:44

Same room, same bed, same room, different

26:46

beds. Look, if

26:48

you're an influencer in longevity like

26:51

Brian Johnson is, he sleeps

26:54

alone. And I think

26:56

he has the record for longest

26:58

perfect cycle, long, this perfect cycle, etc.

27:01

Right. Now, I like sharing my bed

27:03

with my partner. You

27:05

know, there are additional benefits. There

27:08

are perks to that. So,

27:10

I think they compensate for perhaps not

27:12

getting a 100% sleep. I'm

27:16

sure I'm going to be in trouble when

27:18

she watches this. But yeah, so I

27:20

still advocate for partners sharing her bed together.

27:23

Okay, perfect. Yeah. All right.

27:25

So, that's the other temperatures,

27:27

a powerful one. There's a thermal

27:29

contrast effect. So, heat therapy, sauna

27:32

therapy, a hot shower, immersion in

27:34

warm water, like a hot bath,

27:37

helps in vasodilation, nitric

27:39

oxide release, relaxes a

27:41

blood pressure, reduces sort

27:43

of the stress response.

27:46

And if exposed to immediately before

27:48

a cold environment, that sort of thermal

27:50

contrast can be in an additive effect

27:53

from a biohacking perspective. And I've certainly seen

27:55

that whenever I'm traveling, if I have access

27:57

to a steam or sauna in the hotel.

28:00

I'll go down and spend 20 minutes

28:02

in that, you know, up to 30 to 40 minutes.

28:04

Just before sleep. Just before sleep.

28:06

Yeah, very, very powerful relaxation agent. What

28:09

are your thoughts on those sauna blankets

28:11

that you can roll up at home?

28:13

I mean, I've not used it. I

28:15

think some of the challenges there is the

28:17

core body temperature, right? The

28:20

key here is that you want to raise

28:22

body temperature before you go to bed, but

28:24

whilst you're asleep, you want to make sure

28:26

the ambient temperature is nice and low. And

28:29

I think we've all experienced nights which

28:31

have been too hot and we've had

28:33

a really poor night because of it.

28:35

So that's another thing. I think technology

28:37

usage is very, very, very

28:39

bad from a sleep perspective. Everyone will know,

28:42

have heard about red, blue, blue light, white

28:44

light from screens. So

28:46

making sure that you have a nice

28:48

sleep routine where you're disconnecting, you're

28:51

engaging in media, which is not raising

28:53

your adrenaline levels. So not seeing those

28:55

silly news programs where 10 people

28:58

are shouting at each other with those red banners

29:00

and all of that stuff. 75 people have died

29:02

in something, correct? Yeah. So, you

29:04

know, watching a fun comedy, listening

29:06

to your favorite podcast, Audible Book

29:09

Plug, and

29:11

or reading a nice book, etc.

29:14

These are nice things to do, which help. Do

29:17

you want to feel like blue blockers at home? So

29:19

I have a pair of blue blockers

29:21

that I will use if I'm on my

29:23

laptop or an iPad, you know, late

29:25

into the night. If I'm doing, let's

29:27

say, a live or a

29:29

digital engagement for a client in the

29:32

US or Europe, etc. So I

29:34

have to be on there late. So I'll wear the blue blockers there.

29:37

I have a set of red lenses, which if

29:39

I'm doing like a red eye flight or late flight,

29:41

I'll have in my travel bag because

29:43

of the LEDs in the airport and on the

29:45

aircraft. People look at me as if I'm a

29:47

cyborg or something from the X-Men. I think it's

29:49

a good conversation starter or a celebrity or

29:52

a celebrity. Yeah. I'm a fan of

29:54

superheroes. So

29:57

I have those, you know, handily available. Those

30:00

are nice and easy to use. What

30:03

you eat is also very powerful. Now,

30:06

generally speaking, the advice is that one shouldn't eat

30:08

for about two or three hours before we go

30:10

to bed. Ancient wisdom's eat from

30:13

sunrise to sunset. Very, very

30:15

effective. And ensuring

30:17

that meal is on the lower side of carbohydrates,

30:19

because you don't want too much insulin riding around

30:21

in the system. So have your

30:24

protein, have your good fat and fiber,

30:26

stay well hydrated, consume

30:29

and finish about two to three hours before you

30:31

go to sleep. Those are really powerful. There

30:34

are foods which contain tryptophan, which

30:36

get broken down in the body

30:39

to help produce melatonin, which is

30:41

the hormone which relaxes the body.

30:44

And there are many vegetables and food items

30:46

and nuts and seeds, et cetera,

30:48

that you can consume from

30:50

that perspective. So actually, there's quite a lot

30:53

out there in the toolkit. I mean, I'm

30:55

probably going to. I know like pistachios are

30:57

good. Pistachios are good. I think green leafy

30:59

vegetables are another. Rice is right. Oh,

31:01

is it? Rice is tripped up. I

31:03

don't know about that. And I think my

31:05

team are going to berate me for not

31:07

knowing this one, ask the question. But luckily,

31:10

we have Google, Siri, Alexa, and

31:13

chat GPT, and all of that for that. So

31:15

yeah, those are powerful. So actually, there's a lot one

31:17

can do, right, to get. And none of these are

31:20

crazy expensive, crazy difficult. It's just

31:22

about the right behaviors and

31:25

habits to get going. For

31:33

people, the idea of

31:37

how can I go to sleep when

31:39

my friends are still awake, especially in

31:41

this generation, that's a huge thing. Like,

31:43

I'm going to miss out on something. They'll send me something and I

31:45

won't be able to see it. So we converted FOMO to JOMO. We

31:49

actually, it's a little sadistic, I

31:51

suppose. But we take great pleasure

31:54

in not turning

31:56

up or going out for all the stuff

31:58

that, because frankly, you don't need to. Especially

32:01

when there's big stuff happening. And

32:04

also ensuring that we slip away early.

32:07

You know, those extra hours in

32:09

bed have a huge, huge benefit.

32:12

Very interesting statistic because

32:14

of the challenges faced in India, that one

32:16

night of poor sleep leads

32:18

to a four to eight fold increase

32:21

in insulin resistance over

32:24

the next 24 hours. And

32:27

that means your metabolic machinery has

32:29

to work that much harder. Especially

32:32

in an environment where we have

32:34

a lot of carbohydrates and excessive

32:37

sugars in our diets. And you always feel hungry

32:39

the next two days in any case after. That's

32:41

because of ghrelin and leptin changes, right? It just

32:43

makes you feel more hungry. And psychologically,

32:46

you're more favorable

32:49

towards trans fats,

32:51

salt and sugar. It's a physiological

32:53

response. Your body has recognized you're

32:55

in a sleep deprived state. Your

32:57

attention is going to be diminished.

33:00

So I need to consume calories to

33:02

keep my alertness level high because there's

33:05

a predator that's about to get me.

33:07

Right. We didn't evolve in a land

33:09

of food booking

33:11

applications. And now anyone can get anything

33:14

within 10 minutes, which is absurd. Really

33:16

absurd. It just means that trigger to

33:18

reward time is so little short. So

33:20

short. Yeah. I was watching a video

33:22

where this person was saying that it

33:24

was about two in the night and

33:26

I felt like having this soup

33:30

from the shop. And where's the shop underneath

33:32

my building. Okay. But I called

33:34

one of these food delivery apps. This

33:36

man actually came and

33:38

delivered it from the ground floor. So

33:42

it's crazy just how dependent we've gotten on

33:44

these. Our lifestyles have changed completely. If you

33:46

go to the US and you use one

33:48

of these platforms, they'll add any order of

33:50

banana. The banana comes peel and cut in

33:52

a plastic, in a

33:54

plastic covering. I mean, banana has

33:57

his own covering provided and you

33:59

can. It's true. We can buy it and

34:01

chew. It doesn't need to be cut for us.

34:03

For these parties, my new thing is follow the

34:05

LIFO format. Last in, first out. Oh, that's good.

34:08

Right? But yeah, you don't want to be too

34:10

late, right? Last in. Yeah,

34:12

but then at least you met everybody. Okay. Because

34:14

if you're first in, first out, you've not met

34:16

half the people. That's true. And the best thing

34:18

is, forget about saying bye. Because that process alone

34:20

can take half an hour to one hour. It's

34:22

called the Irish escape or something. Irish escape, that's

34:25

right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting.

34:28

You've been giving me all my social secrets. I'm

34:30

just going to realize this now. Make

34:33

sure your friends don't watch this. No, no, watch it. Okay.

34:36

So, we've covered sleep. Yeah. You know, when we

34:38

think about longevity, what

34:41

are things that are really

34:44

exciting you about, you know,

34:47

this field of longevity? I'm

34:49

coming from this place of like, everyone talks

34:51

about exercise more. Yeah. You know, eat correctly,

34:54

etc, etc, etc. But what

34:56

are the aspects that people are not looking at

34:58

that are coming out as aha moments for you,

35:00

especially in the last couple of years? I think

35:02

the big thing for me is the increasing awareness

35:05

around data. Because

35:07

of the technology trends that have happened in

35:09

the last few years, we've had a massive

35:11

rise in awareness because of the pandemic. Fundamentally,

35:13

our knowledge and awareness of health importance has

35:16

elevated, right? That's no longer a case that

35:18

will, and that's not going to unwind. But

35:21

what's also happened is technology

35:23

has become increasingly miniaturized, increasingly

35:25

personalized. There are

35:27

new formats now available in measurement

35:30

techniques. I was yesterday sent a

35:32

very interesting device that measures my

35:34

blood glucose, not through a

35:36

skin prick, not through a patch

35:38

on my arm, but through my

35:41

thumbs on a surface, right? It's

35:43

a little device, and

35:45

they have sent it to me for testing it

35:47

out to see what the efficacy is. We

35:50

could potentially use it in the clinic for

35:52

our patients, right? I think there's some really

35:54

cool stuff that's happening. So what this means

35:56

is that my ability, I'm going

35:58

to say Miami, like a physician. ability or

36:00

a coach's ability to provide insight

36:03

into a client's biology and

36:05

use that as a learning

36:08

moment to engage with

36:10

them and set them on a

36:12

path that they can then measure

36:14

and track progress has now changed.

36:17

I don't need to wait for them

36:19

to go to a sleep lab because

36:22

I can give them a sleep ring

36:24

or a fitness tracker. I don't need

36:26

them to go and get their VO2

36:28

max tested in a fitness laboratory because

36:30

their wearable device will give me a

36:32

surrogate marker that I can track. A

36:35

smart scale will give me their body composition. I

36:37

can measure their glucose. There are so many things

36:39

now. That has

36:41

really unlocked a great opportunity

36:43

and we use it very

36:46

much so to our advantage

36:48

so that on the application, on their

36:50

mobile phone, they're immediately able to see

36:53

all of their biomarkers. They could be

36:55

their blood analysis, their digital analysis, their

36:57

functional measurements, etc. We at the

36:59

back end can show them these are the

37:01

biohacks that you should be doing and then

37:03

you can track it and show them, okay,

37:05

you know what? You took magnesium for six

37:07

weeks. See what happened to your

37:10

sleep scores. Interesting. Right? You

37:12

took omega-3 for three months. See how

37:15

your LDL, your triglycerides and your ApoB

37:17

cholesterol levels have come down. And

37:20

suddenly that's an aha moment. And they're like,

37:22

okay, I'm more likely to stick because

37:25

you've shown it to me based on n

37:27

equals one. My physiology, my

37:29

data, not some random piece of

37:31

information out there. Amazing. So

37:33

the tech that you're excited about is actually

37:36

in the diagnosis aspect of it

37:38

more than in the, you know,

37:40

like become a cyborg aspect. Oh

37:42

yeah, very much so. I think that's part of the journey,

37:44

right? It

37:46

will, I'm sure evolve to that

37:48

element, but one has to crawl

37:50

first before we can walk or

37:52

run. Yeah. What

37:54

is your take on stimulants like caffeine, etc? I

37:57

like caffeine. There's

37:59

a clear episode. epidemiological advantage, you

38:02

know, numerous studies scientifically

38:04

proven around the world, including

38:07

anecdotal evidence from Blue Zones have shown

38:09

that consuming one to two cups of

38:11

caffeine a day has a longevity benefit.

38:14

There, it could be the reduction in

38:17

cardiovascular risk. It could be the socialization

38:19

that is associated with it. So

38:21

we can't tease out those aspects. So

38:23

people should appreciate that. But

38:26

there's clearly an advantage. And when we talk about

38:28

caffeine, I don't mean the brands which are basically

38:30

selling you sugar on the high street. We

38:33

mean proper caffeine, you know, black in the

38:35

origin. In the form of coffee or tea,

38:37

etc. Because the strangest thing

38:39

just happened to me. I gave up coffee two days

38:41

ago. I was like, I think I'm addicted to it.

38:44

Let me give it. I was

38:46

having three cups, maybe four. And I was

38:48

like, and from yesterday onwards, I've just been

38:50

feeling foggy and I have this headache that

38:53

it doesn't seem to go away. Classic patrol.

38:55

It's crazy. Yeah. And

38:57

you suddenly realize just how dependent you're on it. Yeah.

39:00

There are many people that are dependent on it. Three to

39:02

four cups is probably a little bit too much. There

39:05

is a stimulant advantage. So I'm

39:08

currently drinking coffee because we are

39:10

having this conversation. Correct. Otherwise, I

39:12

have actually reduced my caffeine intake

39:14

quite considerably. Because I

39:16

have seen in my own physiology that even

39:19

if I'm disciplined enough to have my cup of

39:22

coffee before 2pm, that

39:24

my sleep scores that night do deteriorate.

39:27

And I generally have that slightly

39:29

higher level of anxiety and alertness

39:31

than I would like just to

39:33

stay calm. So I've

39:36

cut it off, but when I need

39:38

to up my performance, so if I'm

39:40

running a marathon, if I'm taking part

39:42

in, let's say, a social fitness competition,

39:44

if I'm doing a conversation like this,

39:46

then I will add that extra little

39:48

bit of stimulant to help me achieve

39:50

a better score. Interesting. So

39:53

you're using it as a tool, not as a daily habit. Absolutely. Absolutely.

39:56

Would you have a morning routine with a coffee or? No, I don't. I

40:00

don't. So my morning routine is typically

40:02

just hot water with mint leaves in it. Some

40:05

mornings when... Why mint? Just for the taste?

40:07

Just for the flavor. Just actually for the

40:09

flavor. Just to get that hydration in. Before

40:11

this day starts, if

40:13

I'm doing a... If it's a running morning

40:16

and I typically run in a zone two

40:18

workout, which is keeping a heart rate about

40:20

60 to 70 percent, then I try and

40:22

stay fasted to augment the

40:24

detoxification of fat from

40:26

a health perspective. So water is a

40:28

very important hydration status in the morning. And

40:30

on days that I feel that there's maybe a bit

40:33

of an inflammation brewing, then I'll add

40:35

some curcumin, haldi to the water in the morning,

40:37

just to get a benefit of that. And

40:40

do you fast regularly? I've

40:42

reduced it a lot. So I used it

40:45

a few years ago when

40:48

I was metabolically much unhealthier

40:50

than I am today. It was

40:53

a very effective tool to realign

40:55

my metabolic flexibility towards fat

40:58

oxidation rather than carbohydrate requirement.

41:00

I was able to bring my

41:02

visceral fat scores down, which

41:05

was really important. And because of that, my

41:07

liver function improved and all those other consequences.

41:11

Now, I mean, also the science is changing.

41:13

The science will always change. And I know

41:15

it's often an area that people want to

41:17

be counseled on. The latest data

41:21

is suggestive that the biggest gain

41:23

is because of the restriction in

41:25

calories. We are calorific

41:27

excess. When I say we, I mean

41:29

everyone. So generally speaking,

41:31

a 20 to 25% net reduction

41:33

in calories is advantageous to the

41:36

organism. And therefore, intermittent fasting

41:38

or time restricted eating is just a

41:40

convenient way of doing so. Interesting. So

41:43

people who want to do it, I often

41:46

remind them that the best meal to bring

41:48

up is dinner rather

41:50

than missing breakfast. So

41:52

bring your dinner up by maybe an hour or so, add

41:55

more hydration. You can still

41:57

eat therefore eat your breakfast on time or just after

41:59

your workout and that can become

42:01

routine. Um, we try

42:04

and get a three day fast

42:06

in a water only fast once

42:08

a year. It used to be more frequent

42:10

than that. It's now once a year. And

42:12

that's more because there is a little bit

42:14

of stines, which is showcasing

42:16

the benefits of autophagy, auto-self

42:18

age clean. So there's a

42:20

benefit of doing so. It's

42:23

easier for men to fast than women

42:25

because of the hormonal profile through the

42:27

month and particularly people who are metabolically,

42:31

uh, at the worst side

42:33

of the spectrum or people who are

42:35

looking to shed visceral fat

42:37

as diagnosed on a DEXA scan

42:40

or an ultrasound, uh,

42:42

and, uh, wanting to bring that down,

42:44

then the combination of zone

42:46

to low intensity steady cadence,

42:49

long exercise, uh, long width,

42:51

a fasting window is a

42:53

great adjunct from a biohacking

42:55

perspective. Interesting. So that is

42:57

the way that you would

42:59

typically look at it. I was, um,

43:02

I had somebody who was be like doing, um,

43:05

five day fast every month and then

43:07

doing an Omed diet, et cetera, all

43:10

of that is very excessive from the

43:12

study that studies that are coming out

43:14

right now. I think anything, everything

43:17

in moderation is beneficial. There's

43:19

clearly a hormetic stress that

43:21

our bodies get a benefit from

43:23

physiologically, we're hunter gatherers. We're used

43:25

to this idea. There's

43:27

clearly a social element because every

43:30

single cultural practice around the world

43:32

has fasting built in. So there's,

43:34

there's clearly a benefit of doing

43:36

so. Now

43:39

I, I, I have people,

43:42

clients who have taken it, I think a little

43:44

bit far. I mean, there's one individual gentleman who

43:47

comes to mind, uh, who has

43:49

done so well and he's lost a lot

43:51

of weight, but he now eats once every

43:53

three days. Uh, and I keep reminding him

43:55

that you're not Omed, you're like, whatever that

43:57

acronym is like once, three days. That

46:00

would be a gene test. No, it's a

46:02

blood test. What's in a blood? It's a

46:04

protein in your blood, which is on the

46:06

lipoprotein. It's

46:09

a lipoprotein in the bloodstream, which we can

46:11

measure. So that's a simple blood test. And

46:13

then the other one

46:16

that I would probably suggest everyone

46:18

does is their inflammatory marker, which

46:20

is either CRP, C-reactive protein, or

46:23

HSCRP, highly sensitive CRP. So what

46:25

we did at the clinic was,

46:27

we looked at normal panels, and

46:30

we designed for what is

46:32

the optimal panel from a

46:34

longevity perspective. So now

46:36

it's actually very simple. Someone can just book

46:39

a blood test through us, and they will

46:41

automatically get all 120 parameters done. Okay,

46:44

fantastic. And it analyzes it as per the

46:46

reporting that I was just suggesting based on

46:48

optimal ranges. And the next step,

46:51

which we're building now, is in the app

46:53

itself, that the app starts to interpret and

46:56

make suggestions for you based on

46:58

those deviations, so that you don't have to wait to

47:00

see your clinician and physician or your health

47:02

coach. Oh, start doing this. I would suggest

47:04

do this from now onwards. Absolutely. How do

47:06

people find this blood test?

47:08

Where should people... They can reach out

47:10

to me on social and pretty active.

47:13

The handle is at docm, my surname,

47:15

R-A-N-N-E-Y. If they're interested in

47:17

knowing more about the longevity program, it's

47:19

called EVA, as I was sharing. So

47:21

it's EVA.humanedge.co. And

47:25

yeah, those are probably two resources

47:27

that they can reach access. Fantastic.

47:30

Dr. thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Dr. thank

47:32

you for having me. Thank you. Hey,

47:39

hey, it's been another great week

47:41

on the IVM Podcasts Network. On

47:44

Cyrus Says, Cyrus is joined

47:46

by former cricketer Parthiv Patel

47:48

and actress and superfan Syami

47:50

Kher. They share hilarious

47:52

instances from the commentary box. Parthiv

47:54

recounts the time he slashed Steve

47:56

was son and the two of

47:58

them take a shot at predicting.