0:00

I'd love to love to kick it

0:02

off a a question, which I think

0:04

is really good. really to, I'd cause

0:06

your mission is so apparent, like

0:08

it's so palpable. so Can you

0:10

just articulate what your mission is? what

0:12

wow. is? Oh tough one. a tough I

0:14

think it's it's easy when I... Oh, that's well,

0:16

there's so many layers to

0:18

our mission, our but what we're

0:20

wanting to wanting to do is restore

0:22

the cycle awareness to the

0:25

to the world, but

0:27

particularly menstrual cycle awareness,

0:29

so we would love love.

0:31

every woman, every person

0:33

on the planet

0:35

who has a menstrual

0:37

cycle a be able

0:40

to know about

0:42

and relish this relish this

0:44

life-sustaining, inspiring, nourishing nourishing resource

0:46

that's held within

0:48

their being. that is

0:51

the menstrual cycle and that

0:53

and they tap into the

0:55

menstrual cycle. cycle,

0:58

they get to feel all the

1:00

possibilities of it a a physical

1:02

level, how it supports our supports

1:04

our but also how it

1:06

supports our creative life our creative

1:08

life, it opens us to

1:11

a spiritual consciousness. spiritual consciousness. And

1:13

then the next really important thing

1:15

for me is that

1:17

it reminds us or it

1:19

embeds us in our

1:21

connection to nature. to nature. That

1:24

is sort of the

1:26

heart of it. It's restoring

1:28

us to connection, connection

1:31

to ourselves and connection to

1:33

nature. nature. Beautiful, I love it.

1:35

I love the sound of that. Well, what does

1:37

menstrual cycle awareness mean? Cause mean? live in

1:39

an age now in it's often seen as

1:41

something that gets in the way of

1:43

our busy productive lives. At least I'm speaking

1:45

as a man, but often I can

1:47

see how my mother and how my wife

1:50

relates to her when it it

1:52

comes, it's something that gets in the

1:54

way in opposed to something to be celebrated,

1:56

something that's sacred, something that's important, something

1:58

that is distinctively feminine. if you will. I

2:00

wonder if you could speak to that because it's.

2:03

Yeah, so this is really

2:05

very much at the heart

2:07

of our mission is taking

2:10

something that's so very everyday

2:12

biological functional that we live

2:14

with that affects us on

2:16

such a profound level and

2:18

bringing a whole new level

2:21

of attention and care to

2:23

it. So we coined this

2:25

phrase menstrual cycle awareness when

2:27

we wrote our first book

2:30

Wild Power because we realized

2:32

that It's um, it goes

2:34

actually beyond just paying attention

2:36

to ourselves and our cycle.

2:39

It is actually, we think

2:41

of it as being a

2:43

spiritual practice. We sometimes talk

2:45

about it as an inner

2:48

yoga because our menstrual cycle

2:50

is moving us through these

2:52

different stages and phases, through

2:54

the different moods and energies.

2:57

and being aware of that

2:59

and beginning to cooperate with

3:01

that and trust that as

3:03

being like an innate healthy

3:05

rhythm. suddenly just changes

3:08

the whole way that we live. It

3:10

brings us into an entirely different kind

3:12

of lifestyle, into a different rhythm, into

3:14

a different way of being, and does

3:17

what Alexandra started off by saying, it

3:19

restores cyclicity to the world. So I

3:21

mean, as you both know, we live

3:23

in a world that has really lost

3:25

connection with nature and really lost a

3:28

sense of relating to the cycles of

3:30

nature, the cycles of life, the cycles

3:32

of our body and being. And when

3:34

we practice menstrual cycle awareness, we actually

3:36

start to live in this cyclical way.

3:39

So in other words, we're recovering this

3:41

aspect of our humanity, which is so

3:43

innate in us and so central to

3:45

our health and happiness and well-being. And

3:48

it's such a simple thing to do,

3:50

you know, it's not like another thing

3:52

you've got to go out and do.

3:54

you don't have to go and meditate,

3:56

you just need to live in accordance

3:59

with your cycle. So it's actually kind

4:01

of radical, we think. And yet so

4:03

simple, like it's so, it's been so

4:05

innate for, you know, since the dawn

4:07

of woman, woman and man, it's been

4:10

innate, but then it seems like over

4:12

the last 100 years, maybe 150 years

4:14

since the Industrial Revolution, it's probably, we've

4:16

started to view it quite differently, menstruation,

4:18

that as Stephen articulated, that it's often

4:21

viewed as a problem where I need

4:23

to go in the pill because my

4:25

periods are painful and... You know that

4:27

there's very much this, it isn't this

4:30

meant, like how you're reframing it is

4:32

beautiful that it's really reframing it as

4:34

there's so much information within it and

4:36

so much opportunity to connect with yourself

4:38

and become more self-aware that it is

4:41

the ultimate spiritual journey. Am I right

4:43

in understanding it like that? We just

4:45

finished our longest run over there a

4:47

couple of weeks ago we ran the

4:49

wickla way which was 130 kilometers which

4:52

we did over two days we ran

4:54

the wickla way and we did it

4:56

in our Vivo barefoot shoes which people

4:58

go why you didn't barefoot shoes and

5:00

we did and we had no pain

5:03

in the cells of our feet at

5:05

all. And what we found was incredible

5:07

is that because of the minimal souls,

5:09

we really felt connected to the landscape

5:11

because it was so many different landscapes,

5:14

hills and mountains and rugged terrains and

5:16

over rivers and brooks and valleys and

5:18

just to interact and really because you

5:20

got the same amount of nerve endings

5:23

in the soles of your feet. And

5:25

we've exclusively been wearing Vivo Barefoot shoes

5:27

for the last decade. As soon as

5:29

we started wearing them, you know, they

5:31

really did change our paradigm for what

5:34

a shoe should be. They have a

5:36

natural wide toe box, which really encourages

5:38

your feet to build strength. Studies in

5:40

the University of Liverpool found that your

5:42

foot strengthening proves up to 60% within

5:45

only a matter of months, which is

5:47

absolutely incredible. And I think one thing

5:49

to note is that you wouldn't buy

5:51

clothes that don't fit your or make

5:53

you hunch hunch over, just make you

5:56

take on in a natural shape. However,

5:58

many of us by footwear that forces

6:00

our these kind of tight restricted positions

6:02

where they're kind of just like a

6:05

cast they're locked in white by wearing

6:07

Vivo Barefoot shoes they've got a wide

6:09

toe box which allows you to spread

6:11

and now your feet to to be

6:13

in a natural shape and also to

6:16

get feedback from the train. We couldn't

6:18

recommend the more use the code H.P.20

6:20

to get 20% off at check out.

6:22

And my final thing is in that

6:24

your feet are the foundation of your

6:27

movement. That, you know, it really all

6:29

starts with your feet. If your feet

6:31

are healthy and strong, that directly impacts

6:33

your ankles, your knees, your hips, your

6:35

spine. So we found them just to

6:38

be fantastic for our body and for

6:40

particularly as we get older, as all

6:42

of us get older year by year.

6:44

They're great. One thing I've often longed

6:46

for is a machine or something that

6:49

I can make my own oat milk.

6:51

A modern day milk maker. Care. A

6:53

modern day care. Modern day care. And

6:55

it just so happens that Nama have

6:58

released Nama M1, which is their milk

7:00

maker. And the amazing thing about this

7:02

Nama milk maker is that you can

7:04

make cashewn up milk, oat milk, almond

7:06

milk. Any type of milk, what you

7:09

want. Like it's amazing. And you can

7:11

customizeim. And you can customize them to

7:13

the ingredients. Okay brilliant they've new technology

7:15

that helped called blend and strain which

7:17

is really really cool really easy to

7:20

make beautiful inbuilt display like all Namma

7:22

things it's very cool yeah and Namma

7:24

they're they're all about supporting you to

7:26

eat more plants they give a 15-year

7:28

warranty on their milk make how long

7:31

15 year wow they really believe it

7:33

they really want you to use it

7:35

and support it is built to last

7:37

so it is quality and you get

7:40

10% off of the code happy pair

7:42

10 so do check it's amazing the

7:44

Nama M1 milkmaker, 10% off of the

7:46

code, happy pair 10 at checkout. I'm

7:48

friendly and listening to the podcast, also

7:51

with our code, happy pair 10, you'll

7:53

be able to get 10% off all

7:55

their incredible juices too. You know, what

7:57

I like to relate to actually is

7:59

the... rhythm and we

8:02

all know what it's like

8:04

to not have a good

8:06

night's sleep, not to pay

8:08

attention to our circadian rhythm.

8:10

I mean we don't go,

8:12

oh God is such a

8:14

bore, I've got to go

8:16

to bed and sleep now.

8:18

We know that sleep is

8:20

so foundational to our well-being.

8:22

So we and we know

8:24

that how our energies change

8:26

through the day and all

8:28

of us try to optimize

8:30

our day by working with

8:32

the energy of the day.

8:34

You know, some people come

8:36

alive at night. I'm a

8:38

luck, you know, I'm most

8:40

creative in the morning. So

8:42

we learn to capitalize and

8:44

utilize those energies. And when

8:46

we cooperate with cycles, it's

8:48

like they take care of

8:50

us. It keeps us, because

8:52

you can't stay switched on

8:54

all the time. It's a

8:57

recipe for burnout. And so

8:59

the menstrual cycle is no

9:01

different. It is this activity

9:03

at its foundational level of

9:05

activity and rest, menstruation being

9:07

the time of just really

9:09

coming in and stilling and

9:11

being more inner and slower.

9:13

It's like the sleep time,

9:15

if you like, and of

9:17

literary time as that most

9:19

alive, most energetic, physical energy

9:21

and so on. And by

9:23

cooperating with this rhythm and

9:25

not forcing yourself to be

9:27

permanently on all the time,

9:29

you are really pacing your

9:31

nervous system. It's keeping you

9:33

in the rhythm of you

9:35

rather than the artificial rhythm

9:37

of world timing, which is

9:39

not organic, it's just do,

9:41

do, do, do, and push,

9:43

push, push. And the menstrual

9:45

cycle is this wonderful movement

9:47

of push and then retreat,

9:49

you know, of a surge

9:51

and then a slight dipping

9:53

of energy. And when you

9:56

cooperate with that, you're really

9:58

taking care of your nose.

10:00

You're really tuning into your

10:03

unique constitution and needs. And

10:05

that brings this lovely feeling

10:07

of connection with yourself. And

10:09

when you're physically nourished, you're

10:12

emotionally nourished as well. So

10:14

you'll feel more in tune,

10:16

more in flow with who

10:19

you are, your energies. It

10:21

sort of builds natural self.

10:23

self-confidence. It's amazing how many

10:25

people say that when they

10:28

start practicing cycle awareness, they

10:30

find it much, much easier

10:32

to assert their boundaries, take

10:35

care of their needs. And

10:37

then the sort of final

10:39

piece of resistance in all

10:41

this is that administration you're

10:45

naturally slowed down in the latter

10:48

part of the cycle. There will

10:50

be a slight drop in energy

10:52

and as you come into menstruation

10:54

you'll feel this huge need probably

10:57

to just pull away from the

10:59

world and drop. And if we

11:01

can do this, we open up

11:04

this expanded consciousness. And it's so

11:06

wild this, and I have to

11:08

say, because I'm postmenopause now, I

11:11

do miss this aspect of registration,

11:13

which is that you step into

11:15

this really expanded state. So consciousness,

11:18

these feelings of bliss. and love.

11:20

It's like an oxytocin wash through

11:22

your whole being. And this feeling

11:24

of feeling of, oh, yes, just,

11:27

you feel just the utter rightness

11:29

of who you are. It's just

11:31

lovely kind of line up. And

11:34

in that connection with yourself, then

11:36

it's just this will of creative

11:38

ideas that then pour through you.

11:41

like, you know, the meaning of

11:43

your life, what you're about, you

11:45

know, what your crazy things should

11:48

be in the world. And because,

11:50

you know, in ignoring this, we

11:52

are losing out. all this incredible

11:54

spiritual nourishment as well as physical

11:57

nourishment that goes on because menstruation

11:59

when you stop it's like this

12:01

incredible distressing of your system because

12:04

we all get stressed I mean

12:06

life is demanding but then each

12:08

month at menstruation a bit like

12:11

when you go to bed at

12:13

night you know your whole system

12:15

resets and then you're off again

12:18

with a new cycle like the

12:20

start of a new day after

12:22

a good night's You describe it

12:24

so beautifully, I'm kind of like,

12:27

oh, I'd love to experience that.

12:29

I know a lot of men

12:31

say that. Oh, totally. It's great,

12:34

but really, I feel a yearning

12:36

in me. You kind of, am

12:38

I right in saying that you

12:41

kind of discover this mental cycle

12:43

awareness through your own experience when

12:45

you used to have some serious

12:47

menstrual pains? Yes, I did. Now

12:50

in my 20s, I, um, woke

12:52

up to the negatives of the

12:54

pill, because I went on it

12:57

briefly, and then thought, no, no,

12:59

no, no, I do not want

13:01

a pharmaceutical great controlling my body.

13:04

And so I learned about fertility

13:06

awareness. So I was already connected

13:08

in to knowing about the physical

13:11

signs of my body for contraception

13:13

purposes. And then the great announcement

13:15

of this work happened just before

13:17

my 31st birthday. But I got

13:20

the menstrual pain from hell. and

13:22

out of nowhere just wished me

13:24

open it was insane and this

13:27

pain then came back month after

13:29

month and it would last for

13:31

two three sometimes four days and

13:34

I was just not in I

13:36

was not wanting to take drugs

13:38

every month I was already into

13:41

natural therapies and good eating and

13:43

so on at this point and

13:46

I just surgery and drugs were

13:48

just not the solution for me

13:50

and I made this radical decision

13:53

to believe in my body. I

13:55

thought my body is talking to

13:57

me. I'm going to listen. and

14:00

I just chose to give space

14:02

demonstration as much as I could.

14:04

And it was an imperfect business

14:07

because of course I had work

14:09

and so on, but I was

14:11

so fierce about not wanting to

14:13

just take drugs and then soldier

14:16

on. And anyway, the drugs barely

14:18

hit the surface of it, you

14:20

know, it was so intense. So

14:22

I started giving space demonstration and

14:25

really going, cold turkey with the

14:27

pain. I thought, fuck it, excuse

14:29

my language. No, it's great, let

14:31

it out, great. I thought, I'm

14:33

just gonna go in there, I'm

14:36

just gonna feel myself, I'm just

14:38

gonna face it. And it was

14:40

just so radicalizing to, it was

14:42

like it pulled me right into

14:45

the root of my being. It

14:47

was like I could not avoid

14:49

who I was, myself, nothing. And

14:51

I had a very wonderful partner,

14:54

a man. who would hold me

14:56

through the pain as I was

14:58

screaming and cursing. I cursed the

15:00

patriarchy, you know. It was all

15:03

the patriarchy's fault, it's what I

15:05

was concerned. I was cursing. And

15:07

he would just rock and hold

15:09

me. God, he was an angel.

15:12

I'm forever grateful for that. Anyway,

15:14

of course I was practicing natural

15:16

therapies as well. I had a

15:18

good diet. I was getting massage,

15:21

she had so and so and

15:23

all sorts of things which I

15:25

write about in my first book.

15:27

But it was this radical act

15:30

of giving space to menstruation because

15:32

what I was also doing was

15:34

reducing stress instead of pushing through.

15:36

I would drop my bundle. This,

15:38

over time, the pain receded and

15:41

it did take time and occasionally

15:43

I had to take drugs. But

15:45

gradually, gradually the pain reduced. And

15:47

I started then, because I'd given

15:50

space for menstruation, I started experiencing

15:52

menstruation as this very different state

15:54

of being, this expanded consciousness. And

15:56

really, it was like the pain

15:59

took me by the scrap of

16:01

the neck and pulled me into

16:03

my cell and said, you've got

16:05

business here, you know, and I

16:08

listened and followed and I followed

16:10

my body and And really, of

16:12

course, I was basically doing a

16:14

prototype of menstrual cycle awareness because

16:17

I had to know when my

16:19

bleed was doomed to organize my

16:21

life around it. And my cycle

16:23

was fortunately regular, that I could

16:26

say, 28 days on the clock.

16:28

Exactly, I know. And so I

16:30

could plan my life and it's

16:32

hard when you can't plan your

16:34

life around your symptoms. But this

16:37

act of reducing pressure, really honoring

16:39

my body, as I was paying

16:41

attention then to the whole cycle,

16:43

I got to see different flavors

16:46

of myself and feel how my

16:48

energies changed through the month. And

16:50

I always really loved the second

16:52

half of the cycle, because when

16:55

I came into the premenstral phase,

16:57

I used to feel much more

16:59

gutsy. and real and like the

17:01

rubber was hitting the road and

17:04

you didn't want to stand in

17:06

my path, whereas I always felt

17:08

not quite so grounded in the

17:10

first half of the cycle. So

17:13

I got to sort of know

17:15

my own nature and where my

17:17

strengths lay, where my vulnerabilities lay.

17:19

And honestly, it was like this

17:22

waking up process that went on

17:24

over the years, because you know,

17:26

I'm 71 though, so this is

17:28

like 40 years of counting. Yeah.

17:31

And I started teaching the work

17:34

to women who suffered. This was

17:36

in Australia because I lived in

17:38

Australia for 25 years. And it

17:40

was individual women's stories that would

17:43

come to these workshops or into

17:45

my therapy practice because I was

17:47

a practicing psychotherapist as well. And

17:49

it was their individual stories that

17:52

would suddenly illuminate things for me.

17:54

would just say something, reflect something,

17:56

and I get, oh my God,

17:58

that's it, that's what's happening. So

18:01

it was like a jigsaw peltsle

18:03

that I was piecing together. And

18:05

then, about 15 years ago, I

18:07

was going through menopause, I moved

18:10

back to the UK, I met

18:12

Shami, and then the workers just

18:14

exploded since then. So I was

18:16

building something in Australia, but the

18:19

ideas... The combination of the pair

18:21

of us and our deep experience,

18:23

deep commitment to the process really,

18:25

you know, just took off from

18:28

there. It's lovely. It's really, really

18:30

lovely to hear. We think of

18:32

ourselves as the happy pair 2.0.

18:34

I love it. Definitely, I love

18:37

it. Or maybe we should be

18:39

the happy apples. I don't know.

18:41

I think we should be the

18:43

happy apples. I think they've cornered

18:46

the market. Maybe, maybe. Well, one

18:48

question. It's so lovely to hear

18:50

all that. It's really just about,

18:52

like, there'll be lots of women

18:55

listening here and they go, okay,

18:57

menstrual cycle awareness. Like how does

18:59

this start? Because even me as

19:01

a man who doesn't go through

19:04

it, like there's the ovulation phase,

19:06

there's the bleed phase, and like

19:08

how I understand it is the

19:10

ovulation phase happens about seven days

19:13

after, you know, the menstrual phase,

19:15

I could be completely wrong here

19:17

now, but it's something like that.

19:19

Could you even explain the phases

19:22

or for any woman listening how

19:24

it works? Because, like, you know,

19:26

I think it would be very

19:28

relevant and very practical. Yeah,

19:31

absolutely. Okay, so we'll talk archetypal

19:33

cycle, like textbook cycle, but in

19:36

reality, everyone has a variation on

19:38

this. So textbook cycle is a

19:40

28-day cycle, and day one is

19:43

the first day of bleeding, so

19:45

that's menstruation. And that lasts for,

19:48

say, like, three to five days.

19:50

Following that, you can move into

19:52

pre-ovulation, and then around, sort of

19:55

day 11 or 12, you go

19:57

into the ovulation. you haven't yet

19:59

ovulated. A couple of days later,

20:02

around day 14, would be ovulation.

20:04

So it's exactly halfway through the

20:06

cycle or 14 days before your

20:09

next bleed. So then around day

20:11

1819, you move into the pre-manstrom

20:13

phase. and then back to bleeding

20:16

and the cycle continues. So that's

20:18

the sort of basic biological map

20:21

and for anyone who has a

20:23

menstrual cycle you will of course

20:25

experience physiological changes. Obviously the blood

20:28

is a very obvious one but

20:30

then you also have changes that

20:32

happen when you ovulate. Sometimes you

20:35

feel the sensation of ovulation or

20:37

your cervical mucus changes in the

20:39

pre-menstral phase. You might feel physically

20:42

more tender. Some people experience breast

20:44

tenderness and so on. So there

20:47

are these physiological changes that happen

20:49

during the menstrual month. And what

20:51

Alexandra and I became really fascinated

20:54

in which kind of came out

20:56

of her deep dive into her

20:58

pain as she so beautifully described.

21:01

is the psychological and emotional changes

21:03

that happen in sync with these

21:05

four phases of the cycle. So

21:08

we've created a number of maps

21:10

to really illustrate what the in

21:12

the changes that happens when we

21:15

move through the menstrual month. and

21:17

one of the main maps that

21:20

we've created is called the inner

21:22

seasons of the menstrual cycle. And

21:24

this really overlays on these four

21:27

biological phases, and it's how we

21:29

liken our inner experience to what's,

21:31

you know, what happens in the

21:34

seasons of the year. So that

21:36

phase of menstruation that I first

21:38

spoke of when you're bleeding, we

21:41

talk about that as the inner

21:43

winter and that already that was

21:46

probably conjuring up a sense of

21:48

actually what it feels like to

21:50

have that experience of bleeding. and

21:53

very inner is a sense of

21:55

wanting to retreat and withdrawal. It's

21:57

a very deeply internal process. In

22:00

the pre-obulatory phase we are liking

22:02

that to the inner spring so

22:04

you can there imagine this feeling

22:07

of like renewal, new energy, new

22:09

life, optimism, we often feel quite

22:11

free, hope. risky. It's it's um

22:14

I mean I always think of

22:16

this is the phase where I

22:19

feel really kind of alive and

22:21

turned on and kind of excited

22:23

by life and then the ovulatory

22:26

phases the inner summer and there

22:28

you can totally picture this seems

22:30

of eternal pleasure, long languid times,

22:33

huge amounts of energy, you can

22:35

be all things to all people,

22:37

very generous. I mean we often

22:40

pull this phase superwoman territory because

22:42

really this is where women can

22:45

multitask like you've got any women

22:47

in your life, you know, they

22:49

can do all the things when

22:52

they're in the inner summer. And

22:54

then the inner autumn is the

22:56

premenstrom. And so that's more of

22:59

where the energy starts to wane

23:01

and there's this kind of shift

23:03

in mood. There's something much more,

23:06

just like autumn is very atmospheric.

23:08

We start to feel more in

23:10

this autumn phase. This is where

23:13

our feeling life comes back online.

23:15

We start to become more sensitive.

23:18

There's something kind of deeper at

23:20

work, more subtle going on. And

23:22

we're making that move back to

23:25

retreat at menstruation, much like the

23:27

autumn leaves falling and the way

23:29

nature starts to quietly close down.

23:32

So yeah, that's the physiological process

23:34

and that's how we've overlaid it

23:36

with an understanding of what's happening

23:39

in terms of our mood and

23:41

energy. And it allows you to

23:44

really feel it like you gone

23:46

through it is like, oh wow,

23:48

that's really... explain and almost like

23:51

revel and appreciate the beauty of

23:53

the female cycle you know. But

23:55

the challenge the challenge is that

23:58

the outside world doesn't necessarily cater

24:00

to this. That's why it's called

24:02

the internal. The first thing I

24:05

thought of there was when you

24:07

were going through it was like

24:09

what about all these professional women

24:12

athletes that have to perform at

24:14

like say say the Olympics was

24:17

just on and the first thing

24:19

I thought of was These women

24:21

that are like, they have natural

24:24

cycles, some of them are going

24:26

to be in winter, some of

24:28

them are going to be in

24:31

summer, some are going to be

24:33

in spring, and that's obviously going

24:35

to influence their performance. Yeah, I

24:38

mean, that's one of many scenarios.

24:40

I mean, just think of mothers

24:43

who also, I mean, children are

24:45

relentless, especially young children, you know,

24:47

you don't get to have time

24:50

where you can just switch off

24:52

and tell them to go thin

24:54

for themselves when they like to

24:57

use a soul. Yeah, so it's

24:59

true that other world really doesn't

25:01

conform and this is what we're

25:04

all living with. Alexandra, what were

25:06

you going to say? I was

25:08

just really, I feel very strongly

25:11

about this thing and I feel

25:13

very strongly about the potency of

25:16

power of actually starting to do

25:18

menstrual cycle awareness to become more

25:20

effective in the world and not

25:23

to see it as a limitation.

25:25

But on the contrary, because you're

25:27

connected to yourself, that is a

25:30

power just being connected to yourself

25:32

and knowing what your needs are

25:34

and knowing your boundaries. So we

25:37

talk about each phase, each of

25:39

those seasons has these sort of

25:41

amplified powers. to them. And of

25:44

course Shani beautifully illustrates powers of

25:46

the inner summer, the ovatory phase,

25:49

where you know, truly you can

25:51

do everything for everybody and etc.

25:53

etc. etc. the superwoman. And then

25:56

the autumn powers, the premenstral powers,

25:58

yes, we have more then

26:01

and what's happening is we're becoming more

26:03

connected to ourselves so we're getting if

26:06

you're and if you're aware of this

26:08

if you're not aware of this you'll

26:10

just be reactive. which you know then

26:12

is sort of called PMS and people

26:15

roll their eyes and you know it's

26:17

that time of the month that kind

26:19

of crap that goes down. I can't

26:22

stand it's diminishment to this. But if

26:24

you're connected to it and if it's

26:26

respected, what's happening is you come into

26:28

a much greater sort of clarity about

26:31

yourself and precision about how you use

26:33

your time and energy. And in fact,

26:35

you can be incredibly effective and productive

26:38

at this time in a way that

26:40

is very different to the other phases

26:42

of the cycle. So it's really, you

26:44

can capitalize on the cycle to really

26:47

serve your work and you get really

26:49

smart about how you deal with your

26:51

diary. You know, no one else has

26:54

to know, you know, where you are

26:56

in your cycle. But if someone says,

26:58

oh, let's have a meeting on blah

27:00

blah date, and you look at your

27:03

diary and you go, that's day one

27:05

of my glean, no way am I

27:07

doing that? And you go, no, sorry,

27:10

terrible, sorry, busy that day. No, let's

27:12

do another day. You know, you get,

27:14

it's so cool. Let's wait a superwoman

27:16

day and I'll take you. Yes, exactly.

27:19

Or you know, just wait till day

27:21

19 or 20, you know, you don't

27:23

want to argue with me on that

27:26

day. Honestly, it's so funny this, but

27:28

it is precise as certain days of

27:30

the cycle. It can be that precise

27:32

sometimes for some people, that they have

27:35

something so distinctive happened. Wow, I think

27:37

it's brilliant. Like I think it's something

27:39

that, you know, my daughter is 14

27:42

and it's something that I must talk

27:44

to my wife and talk to how

27:46

we navigate this in a way that

27:48

supports her in that way. I also

27:51

really admire, it was yesterday when I

27:53

was listening to doing some in terms

27:55

of your work on menopause, I was

27:58

so excited. I was, as I was

28:00

saying before I started, I was at

28:02

my daughter's football match and there were

28:04

a couple of ladies in the sideline

28:07

and whether they were or weren't, you

28:09

know, Perry menopausal or menopausal, I just

28:11

wanted to go, I listened to something

28:14

incredible, you really should listen, these women

28:16

are doing incredible work because I've never,

28:18

as you often say menopause, is often

28:20

seen as Something that you know a

28:23

problem that's to be medicated or something

28:25

that gets in the way and it's

28:27

something that you know can be quite

28:30

spoken drogatively and even like I'm slightly

28:32

ashamed in that I know more about

28:34

menopause than my mother and then my

28:36

wife and like why aren't women supporting

28:39

this? I wonder if you could talk

28:41

about the process of menopause because the

28:43

medical field often sees it one way

28:46

and I really appreciate your reframing and

28:48

your kind of paradigm shift. Shani,

28:52

I'd love you to set

28:54

that up a bit actually.

28:56

Yeah. There was something you

28:58

said right early on in

29:00

our conversation about how the

29:03

menstrual cycle is seen as

29:05

this limit and a problem

29:07

to overcome. And I think

29:09

in a way, a whole

29:11

lot of the distress that

29:13

happens around menopause is because

29:16

overall cycles and our menstrual

29:18

cycle isn't valued. So many

29:20

of us haven't been taught

29:22

about cycle awareness, and so

29:24

many of us have spent

29:26

our lives fighting against this

29:29

natural ebb and flow, a

29:31

bit like working night shifts

29:33

for many, many years, and

29:35

really like overriding that circadian

29:37

rhythm. So many people have

29:39

been overriding this rhythm of

29:41

activity and rest in the

29:44

menstrual cycle. So if you

29:46

think of our life arc

29:48

as women, our menstruality life

29:50

arc, that starts at menarchy,

29:52

which is your first bleed,

29:54

and kind of goes to

29:57

menopause and beyond, that arc

29:59

of our life, when we

30:01

are menstruating and going through

30:03

these cycles. We're going through

30:05

this process of inner development

30:07

of maturation, of spiritual awakening.

30:10

It happens actually naturally when

30:12

you are paying attention to

30:14

your menstrual cycle. So through

30:16

this arc of your all,

30:18

menstruality, your menstruating life, you're

30:20

moving through these life seasons,

30:22

you could say. So in

30:25

your kind of teens and

30:27

20s, you're in the inner

30:29

spring of your menstruating life,

30:31

young, innocent, experimental, getting to

30:33

know yourself. Then in your

30:35

30s you're moving into the

30:38

inner summer of your menstruating

30:40

life, which is very much

30:42

about establishing yourself in the

30:44

world, doing the work, building

30:46

your family, building the career,

30:48

however you choose to use

30:51

all that creative energy. Then

30:53

in your 40s, you're moving

30:55

into the autumn of your

30:57

menstruating years. This is what

30:59

people talk about as perimenopause.

31:01

So everything that happens in

31:04

the pre-menstrom of the cycle,

31:06

you're experiencing a version of

31:08

that in your 40s. The

31:10

heightened sensitivity, stronger emotions, much

31:12

more vulnerable to stress, and

31:14

so on. And then of

31:16

course, you get to menopause,

31:19

which is the cessation of

31:21

your periods. And this is

31:23

like the inner winter of

31:25

your menstruating years. So when

31:27

you see our developmental process

31:29

in that arc, it's not

31:32

hard to see how so

31:34

many are fighting against that

31:36

waning of energy that really

31:38

that life phase of retreat

31:40

and slowing down and gear

31:42

change that happens in your

31:45

40s and then of course

31:47

peaks at menopause in this

31:49

in a winter time. So

31:51

a lot of the distress

31:53

that's happening, a lot of

31:55

the symptoms, a lot of

31:57

the feelings of despair and

32:00

or because people are not

32:03

connected to this cyclical change

32:05

and they're on some level

32:07

fighting it, that's not their

32:10

fault at all, it's just

32:12

because we haven't been tutored

32:14

in cyclical living and in

32:16

deeply trusting this. So yes,

32:19

what we say is this

32:21

very natural organic life process

32:23

is actually a really crucial

32:25

part of our developmental process

32:28

of our maturation. It's a

32:30

rite of passage. much like

32:32

our first bleed is this

32:35

right into our beginning of

32:37

our adulthood. Menopause is a

32:39

right of passage into the

32:41

beginning of our eldership. So

32:44

we hold it in a

32:46

very very different light. Yeah.

32:49

Wow. Yeah. So we're turning

32:52

up at the door of

32:54

Menopause, unprepared, where, as Shandhi

32:56

described, we're not in touch,

32:59

we're not pacing who we

33:01

are, we're being paced by

33:03

the culture that is, of

33:05

course, just do, do, do,

33:08

do, keep going, keep pushing

33:10

through. And so we're overstressed

33:12

and exhausted and that is

33:15

a deadly, deadly combination for

33:17

our hormones. And because we

33:19

are going through a massive

33:21

hormonal shift, our whole being

33:24

is being rewired now. And

33:26

I love to use the

33:28

analogy of the caterpillar, you

33:31

know, becoming the butterfly. It's

33:33

just the perfect analogy. Because

33:35

what we're doing is we're

33:37

closing down on one phase

33:40

of our life to give

33:42

birth to a whole new

33:44

phase. Now, unfortunately, our culture

33:46

has very negative thinking about

33:49

older women as being somehow

33:51

past it. word woman very

33:53

deliberately. Older women are seen

33:56

as, you know, menopause is

33:58

seen as the end of,

34:00

you know, creative, productive life.

34:02

Well, let me let you

34:05

in on the secret here.

34:07

It is a freaking beginning

34:09

or something. You are so,

34:12

I mean, I was so

34:14

unleashed by menopause completely. It

34:16

is, menopause is the biggest

34:18

liberation into who you are.

34:21

but you've got to go

34:23

through a process, your body's

34:25

got to go through a

34:28

process and that requires energy

34:30

actually and you haven't got

34:32

the energy which is why

34:34

we feel this need to

34:37

retreat. So like the caterpillar.

34:40

you're going to feel the need

34:43

to cocoon for a while to

34:45

draw away from and you will

34:47

feel this pulling in and you'll

34:49

actually feel yourself a little bit

34:51

separate from the world like the

34:53

world is going on out there

34:55

and there's a sort of screen

34:58

between you and the world. I

35:00

mean you're in the world going

35:02

about your business but it's like

35:04

there's a sort of bubble around

35:06

you and it's so fascinating this

35:08

detachment that starts to happen. And

35:11

this is what your psyche, what

35:13

your soul deeply, deeply requires now.

35:15

Because what Menopause is trying to

35:17

do is it's trying to really

35:19

bring you home to your deep

35:21

self, to really find out who

35:23

you truly are again, to really

35:26

reconnect deeply in. And

35:28

so you're detaching from the world

35:30

and then there's this feeling of

35:33

being undone that happens like the

35:35

caterpillar that goes to mush and

35:38

you're going to go to mush

35:40

on the inside. I always have

35:42

to preface this by saying and

35:45

normal life continues whilst you're going

35:47

through your death and rebirth. You

35:49

still have to put food on

35:52

the table, you know, for your

35:54

children, go to work and so

35:56

on. I mean, it's insane. And

35:59

on the inside, you're doing this

36:01

extraordinary. of inner psychological and deeply

36:04

spiritual inquiry into yourself and it's

36:06

deep existential work like who am

36:08

I what am I really about

36:11

these questions become absolutely enormous now

36:13

and honestly you will feel like

36:15

everything you've done to date you're

36:18

just not interested in you know

36:20

you things that you were passionate

36:23

about you know that this was

36:25

it you know for you know

36:27

for you're Do you think you

36:30

could all leave home now, please?

36:32

I'm done, you know? So you

36:34

shouldn't take it personally, all the

36:37

men out, all the partners and

36:39

people going through that. Don't take

36:41

it personally. I mean, I'm aware

36:44

that a lot of relationships do

36:46

end up menopause, but that's because

36:49

people aren't able to negotiate the

36:51

changes, because As the woman goes

36:53

through men and pulls, she goes

36:56

through this change, everyone else around

36:58

her has to change because she

37:00

is going to start withdrawing her

37:03

services. And one of the conversations

37:05

that really makes me laugh, it

37:08

just happens spontaneously, it comes out

37:10

of women, it says, things are

37:12

going to be different now. It's

37:15

like, yeah, I am not going

37:17

to be there for you like

37:19

I used to be. I am

37:22

withdrawing my services. That's a great

37:24

line. I'm withdrawing my services like

37:26

it's a really, wow. I've got

37:29

other business to attend to now

37:31

that's more important. And yes, I

37:34

mean I would so want this

37:36

to be dignified, I really do

37:38

to feel it really respected so

37:41

that a woman or a person

37:43

going through menopause can step away

37:45

and feel something important going on

37:48

in themselves. It isn't just about

37:50

themselves because we're stepping into something

37:53

so much bigger post-prenopause that's about

37:55

serving the world. You know, we're

37:57

coming into our calling at the

38:00

most profoundest level. is always about

38:02

serving something beyond us. So yes,

38:04

we withdraw and we are undone,

38:07

so to speak, psychologically. It's almost

38:09

like we forget everything that we've

38:11

done. I couldn't hold on to

38:14

everything I've done. I felt like

38:16

I'd done nothing. I actually felt

38:19

like, what have I done with

38:21

my life? You know, it was

38:23

really classic stuff. And you become

38:26

more and more vulnerable to yourself.

38:28

And there's a lot of feelings

38:30

that will come up. And a

38:33

lot of rage, I have to

38:35

say, a huge amount of rage.

38:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's extraordinary. You

38:40

get to see all the ways

38:42

you suppress yourself and gave in.

38:45

It's shocking. I mean, I was

38:47

always a very fierce, outspoken person.

38:49

But when I read, I thought,

38:52

oh my God, I thought, I've

38:54

been conned. I can't remember things,

38:56

I've been conned, I remember. You

38:59

see through things, you see through

39:01

people, you see through institutions, everyone,

39:04

you're like the boy looking at

39:06

the Emperor, going, he's got me

39:08

a bloody clothes on. Wow. You

39:11

really, it's like that. It's so

39:13

real. You know, you suddenly see

39:15

all these icons you had, you

39:18

know, on pedestals and they all

39:20

crumble. And you also are seeing

39:23

yourself. So it's, there is a

39:25

real kind of, facing of yourself.

39:27

And this is a deeply challenging,

39:30

a deeply vulnerable time. And I

39:32

don't want to, this very serious

39:34

stuff that goes on here, and

39:37

sadly, suicidal ideation and actually people

39:39

taking their own lives does increase

39:41

at this time because it feels

39:44

so bleak. And that is such

39:46

a statement about our times that

39:49

women are not resourced enough, not

39:51

supported enough to meet this. I

39:53

just really want to acknowledge that

39:56

because there's some deep, deep challenge

39:58

and stress out there. because

40:01

people aren't resourced because

40:03

women aren't resourced but

40:05

if we are resourced

40:07

by with we're able

40:09

to have more space

40:11

for ourselves a gender-free

40:13

responsibility-free space to think

40:15

and do nothing to

40:17

do nothing to rest

40:20

potter around to you

40:22

know not not worry

40:24

or not care for

40:26

a while about things

40:28

and to just be

40:30

nourished nourished

40:32

on all levels, just really caring

40:34

for ourselves and really attending to

40:37

our health. And a lot of

40:39

unresolved trauma can come up here

40:41

too, which needs to be tended

40:43

to. So we talk about this

40:46

phase as the repair phase, where

40:48

you just take care of yourself,

40:50

you do your inner work, you

40:52

do whatever you need for self-care

40:55

for healing your body. And then,

40:57

like the caterpillar, so this is

40:59

the mush phase of the caterpillar,

41:01

but then the cells of the

41:04

butterfly start to spark within the

41:06

mush, and you have this going

41:08

on within your soul, you suddenly

41:10

see these lights, these possibilities, these

41:13

thoughts. Oh, wow, like it's extraordinary

41:15

how something starts to form. And

41:17

yes, like the cells of the

41:19

butterfly, they increase and grow and

41:22

start to take shape. And you

41:24

start to feel yourself being put

41:26

back together again and you feel...

41:28

restored. It's so important that your

41:31

energy is nourished because if your

41:33

energy is, if you're still exhausted,

41:35

this process of renewal doesn't really

41:37

happen in a very coherent, cogent

41:40

way. But the more you're nourished

41:42

and the more you're able to

41:44

listen to yourself and respect yourself

41:46

and you will make radical changes

41:49

in your life at this point.

41:51

is it about 45 to kind

41:53

of 52, that kind of window,

41:55

like what you're talking about, because

41:58

you described it as the kind

42:00

of autumn phase, at the macro

42:02

phase of a woman cycle, that

42:04

autumn is like the 40s, or

42:07

the macro phase of a woman's

42:09

cycle, that autumn is like the

42:11

40s, or winter is more the

42:13

40s, winter is the kind of

42:16

menopause, which is perry menopause and

42:18

menopause kind of 47 to 50,

42:20

or is it like a 10

42:22

year window, or is like a

42:25

two year window, like a two

42:27

year window, what you're what you're

42:29

talking about, what you're talking about,

42:31

what you're talking about, It's a

42:34

very good question. We see the

42:36

40s as the autumns. There is

42:38

not this menopause transition that I'm

42:40

describing. You're not in the caterpillar

42:43

phase in the 40s? No, you're

42:45

not in the caterpillar phase. You

42:47

are you are preparing for it.

42:49

And actually what you do in

42:52

your 40s is crucial for setting

42:54

yourself up well for the caterpillar

42:56

phase. But the caterpillar phase... happen

42:58

can start whilst you're still menstruating

43:01

and continue after you stop menstruating

43:03

and it can be anything from

43:05

a couple of years to five

43:07

years. I think for myself it

43:10

was maybe two to three years

43:12

and it's for each woman each

43:14

person to nominate for themselves and

43:16

you will know you will know

43:19

there's something so uncompromising it's like

43:21

I have to go now. Bye

43:23

bye. You know it is so

43:25

intense that feeling of needing to

43:28

get away we even call we

43:30

have a phrase we call it

43:32

the burn the house moment where

43:34

you want to just literally walk

43:37

out you don't you just you

43:39

don't want to take services closed

43:41

row the match over your head

43:43

you know walk off and get

43:46

in your convertible just drive off

43:48

into the sunset. Screw the lot

43:50

he is. See us after. It

43:52

is so powerful and we do

43:55

have to urge caution around that

43:57

maybe because we have to remind

43:59

people that they need a house

44:01

to come back. there's probably not

44:04

a good idea to burn everything,

44:06

you know, they do still need

44:08

relationships in their life. And you

44:10

know, you still probably need gainful

44:13

employment and that kind of thing.

44:15

Yeah, wow. It's amazing that I've

44:17

never heard menopoles described like this,

44:19

described as this rite of passage,

44:22

described, it's an opportunity to kind

44:24

of connect your deeper self to

44:26

find as you, the type, your

44:28

book wise power, to step into

44:31

your more authentic version yourself. Because

44:33

it's usually just symptoms, it's usually

44:35

you just hear about brain fog

44:38

and hot flushes and lack of,

44:40

you know, libido. Losing concentration and

44:42

losing self-confidence and lack of energy

44:44

and can't sleep and you know,

44:47

it's all symptoms, that's what you

44:49

typically hear of rather than this

44:51

incredible opportunity, what you've just described,

44:53

which I'm sitting here like a

44:56

man going, I want a bit

44:58

of that, like what happens for

45:00

us chumpy man? Like, does anything

45:02

happen or are we just like,

45:05

you know, I watch the show?

45:07

Yeah, I mean, I'm so grateful

45:09

that you two are here having

45:11

this conversation with us exactly for

45:14

that reason because we're very glad

45:16

that there is a conversation out

45:18

there about how people are suffering

45:20

with symptoms because many people do.

45:23

But in a way that conversation

45:25

has taken over and actually this

45:27

this new story of menopause that

45:29

we're speaking to is actually the

45:32

deeper understanding that's missing in our

45:34

culture that if it were restored

45:36

it's like we would all kind

45:38

of feel much more okay about

45:41

what's happening and that immediately reduces

45:43

stress and that immediately creates a

45:45

different relationship to what's happening. And

45:47

we believe that many of the

45:50

symptoms would fall away if people

45:52

understood what was going on and

45:54

could care for themselves in the

45:56

way that they really truly needed

45:59

to. Yeah. would be radical. It

46:01

would be radical. It would be

46:03

like when people were waiting for

46:05

a taxi if they knew that

46:08

the taxi was coming in 10

46:10

minutes, they were suddenly at ease.

46:12

Like with Uber, suddenly when you

46:14

had the opportunity to know, my

46:17

taxi is coming in 14 minutes,

46:19

suddenly you're like, oh grand, it's

46:21

coming, I know. And you might

46:23

be pissed off that it's a

46:26

little bit later. And I think

46:28

similarly, it will pass. Exactly,

46:31

and what Alexandra described there is

46:33

a very strong, like, inner experience

46:36

that you growth through. And if

46:38

you don't have anyone saying to

46:40

you, this is meant to happen,

46:42

this is okay, you can be

46:44

going through that experience and as

46:47

many people do think, what's wrong

46:49

with me, I'm losing it, I'm

46:51

going crazy, I can't cope anymore.

46:53

It seems like a design flaw,

46:55

it's like often seen as a

46:58

design flaw to be medicated. Yeah,

47:01

exactly. And if you don't know

47:03

that what's happening is actually supposed

47:05

to happen, it's very hard to

47:08

feel the dignity. So at the

47:10

start we talked about the pill,

47:12

like a lot of women go

47:15

on the pill to kind of

47:17

minimize pain or whatever, or for

47:19

contraception. On the other side, during

47:22

menopause, you hear HRT is something

47:24

which is, you know, a lot

47:27

of women lean into that because

47:29

it can help them still be

47:31

efficient and still kind of pump

47:34

on true. What are your thoughts

47:36

on that in the context of

47:38

what you've just described? Ah yes,

47:41

that's a big question and I'm

47:43

sure it's not a black or

47:45

white one, sorry. No, no, it's

47:48

not at all. And I mean,

47:50

I'm personally not a fan of

47:52

HRT because I'm not a fan

47:55

of taking drugs, you know, you

47:57

heard me talking about when I

47:59

had the pain and I want

48:02

to be able to avoid those

48:04

things as much as possible. But

48:07

what I am, but I'm very

48:09

grateful for fact that all these

48:11

options are available to us when

48:14

we are in extremist, when we're

48:16

in extreme situation. So I give

48:18

thanks for the fact that they

48:21

are available, but they are being

48:23

handed out, I feel like as

48:25

the sort of frontline sort of

48:28

first stop. kind of response rather

48:30

than really looking at the issue

48:32

holistically and which is of course

48:35

we want to restore this new

48:37

story or to restore consciousness of

48:39

the whole menstrual cycle journey and

48:42

how when you're practicing cycle awareness

48:44

you are grown into menopause and

48:47

menopause was a very organic next

48:49

step for me and although I

48:51

experienced everything that I we write

48:54

about in the book it was

48:56

not it was It felt dignified,

48:58

it felt I met it, it

49:01

felt, it didn't feel like something

49:03

slamming into me, I sort of

49:05

evolved through it. And I had

49:08

very good self-care practices because I

49:10

had actually suffered with bad health

49:12

problems a lot of my life,

49:15

so I had become fierce about

49:17

myself care. And so I didn't

49:19

get a lot of physical symptoms.

49:22

In fact, I only experienced a

49:24

hot flush at the end when

49:27

I moved countries back to the

49:29

UK and my body was exhausted

49:31

and it was with my adrenals

49:34

because if my adrenals are empty,

49:36

then I can get temperature fluctuations.

49:38

So it's important that we're prepared

49:41

and very few are. And so

49:43

they're slamming into menopause. And if

49:45

you're slamming into it, it's hideous.

49:48

And you've still got to go

49:50

to work. You've still got to

49:52

do this. I totally get it,

49:55

you know, people reaching for HRT,

49:57

but not everyone benefits from it.

49:59

I mean, it's important to realize

50:02

that. And it's not... I think

50:04

it's, yeah, just to jump in,

50:07

Alexander, I think it makes sense

50:09

as an emergency for people who

50:11

are in deep distress and suffering.

50:14

But as a way to fight

50:16

the organic change, as a way

50:18

of overriding, actually what's wanting to

50:21

happen in your body, which is

50:23

that you're wanting to slow down,

50:25

you're wanting to withdraw your services,

50:28

you're wanting to rest and step

50:30

back and retreat, taking our HRT

50:32

and overriding that, really kind of

50:35

overrides this built-in system of sustainability

50:37

in our body, you know, it's

50:39

not really allowing us to go

50:42

through that ebb, so that as

50:44

Alexandra was beautifully describing, so we

50:47

can have this amazing rebirth and

50:49

regeneration for this second part of

50:51

life, where our services will come

50:54

back, so for everyone who's concerned

50:56

that all the women are withdrawing

50:58

their services, it's not forever, it's

51:01

temporary, services do come back. and

51:03

they come back with huge power

51:05

and amplification. It was an enormous

51:08

effect. And different services are. I'd

51:10

imagine they're different services as well.

51:12

It's not, you know, it's, it

51:15

is a rebirth. I think an

51:17

important question to ask is, are

51:19

there any tools then for someone

51:22

who's approaching menopause, like that they

51:24

can kind of almost be aware

51:27

of that they can bring into

51:29

this incredible transformation process? Like are

51:31

there things that someone should try

51:34

to cultivate? Yeah you mentioned self-care

51:36

practices and leaning into that during

51:38

the autumn and winter phases. Yeah

51:41

I love this idea of getting

51:43

fit for menopause which does mean

51:45

getting physically fit because anything you

51:48

do to create good health you

51:50

know have good diet, build muscle,

51:52

get physically fit is going to

51:55

really sustain you during menopause. when

51:57

we say get fit for menopause,

51:59

we're also talking about getting psychologically

52:02

and emotionally fit. So that is

52:04

the 40s, the autumn of your

52:07

menstruating years. It's so important that

52:09

you're practicing cycle awareness. So if

52:11

you're someone who's just hearing about

52:14

this for the first time, come

52:16

and find out how to practice

52:18

cycle awareness. Actually, our book Wild

52:21

Power, we described the practice in

52:23

a lot of detail and start

52:25

practicing cycle awareness. and start honoring

52:28

this ebb and flow in your

52:30

energy because it's going to teach

52:32

you how to let go when

52:35

it comes to menopause. It's going

52:37

to teach you how to slow

52:39

down, how to surrender, how to

52:42

trust this withdrawal that happens. Because

52:44

every menstrual month in the pre-menstrom

52:47

and administration you're going through this

52:49

process of dying in a way.

52:51

Everything Alexandra described that happens at

52:54

menopause happens in a little mini

52:56

way around menstruation. So you're going

52:58

to be learning this layer of

53:01

self-care which we call cyclical self-care.

53:03

It isn't just any old self-care.

53:05

It's self-care that really honors where

53:08

you're at in your cycle. And

53:10

one of the simplest versions of

53:12

the cyclical self-care is just to

53:15

rest administration, which I say just

53:17

rest administration, but oh my goodness,

53:19

does that take some discipline, some

53:22

mindfulness, some choice, some learning to

53:24

ask other people to support you,

53:27

getting really canny about your day,

53:29

your life, how you parent, what

53:31

you're doing at work and so

53:34

on. But that alone, that kind

53:36

of self-care, resting administration, is going

53:38

to set you up so well

53:41

for a kind of gear change

53:43

that's needed menopause and the sort

53:45

of level of rest that you

53:48

need at menopause. Such great. Because

53:50

it seems like one of the

53:52

overarching principles that you're talking about

53:55

is that understanding really connecting to

53:57

your body's natural rhythm and cycle.

53:59

So it's ultimately, it's like a

54:02

spiritual process of absolutely being present

54:04

to what is happening within your

54:07

body at any given period of

54:09

a menstrual cycle or a life.

54:11

And it seems like the micro,

54:14

you've got the, you know, 28-day

54:16

cycle, but then that's reflected in

54:18

the kind of 10-year chunks that

54:21

the full menstruation journey from Menark

54:23

to Menopels seems to be reflected

54:25

from 28 to four decades, four

54:28

decades, really. Probably. Yeah, exactly. Amazing.

54:30

You guys are awesome. Huge. I

54:32

love your work. That's why you

54:35

started the Red School and you've

54:37

written two incredible books. Like Wise

54:39

Power and then the other one

54:42

is wild power. Yeah, like immediately

54:44

I'm here thinking, geez, I must

54:47

get my wife, my daughter, I

54:49

must read all these. You know,

54:51

it's really inspiring. Yeah,

54:53

thank you. And we really want men

54:56

to read these books. I mean, they're

54:58

written for women, but this is like,

55:00

if a man ever wants to understand

55:03

a woman, this is the book to

55:05

read. It will make sense of so

55:07

much of what's going on in your

55:09

relationship. Whether it's with your wife or

55:12

your daughter, I mean, it's such, give

55:14

such insight into the psyche. of women

55:16

because we are cyclical and suddenly you'll

55:19

be able to see that so distinctly

55:21

and so clearly and know how to

55:23

kind of ebb and flow with the

55:26

women in your life. So we are.

55:28

We hope you do read it. We

55:30

hope all the men listening read it.

55:32

It's amazing you're talking about the women

55:35

being cyclical and then it makes us

55:37

just men sitting here like plabs just

55:39

going we're just the same all the

55:42

time like are we just... monkeys like

55:44

you know that kind of way like

55:46

are we lesser creatures because we don't

55:49

cycle you know no obviously we're not

55:51

we're just different we're just different creatures

55:53

but it totally magnificent be thanks for

55:55

thanks for thanks for just massaging our

55:58

ego slightly love the love

56:00

the fact that you

56:02

are not us. your

56:05

stability, the fact need your

56:07

stability. fact that so

56:09

is cyclical. in its design? I

56:11

mean, it's so incredible really,

56:14

design? all I mean, it's

56:16

perfect, really. like modern society doesn't

56:18

really like modern society

56:20

doesn't really support the

56:22

female. It's not almost. designed by

56:25

men, designed by it's That's that's that's

56:27

they were, you know. to talk about the patriarch

56:29

Alexandra Wazir. It's all helpful. Well, all just not

56:31

it's just not to to facilitate.

56:33

But anyway, we got to land

56:35

this ship. got to amazing. We

56:37

absolutely admire your work massively. We'd

56:39

love to blow wind in

56:41

your work ever we can. Your

56:43

books are amazing. in your sails however can. Your

56:45

books are amazing, has lots of courses.

56:47

And then you're on Instagram, School.

56:49

And Red School. And Red School. Yeah, at red dot

56:51

Red .School. At Red .School. you're you're

56:53

brilliant. Thank you so much for

56:55

this. It's been a real been

56:57

a real tree. so needed. work, it's so needed.

56:59

you. We really appreciate you

57:01

too. Thank you so much. so much.