0:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday

0:04

podcast. The podcast for busy women

0:06

who are ready to drink less

0:08

and live more. I'm Casey McGuire

0:10

Davidson, ex-read wine girl turned life

0:13

coach helping women create lives they

0:15

love without alcohol. But it wasn't

0:17

that long ago that I was

0:19

anxious, overwhelmed, and drinking a bottle

0:21

of wine a night to unwind.

0:24

I thought that wine was the

0:26

glue, holding my life together. helping

0:28

me cope with my kids, my

0:30

stressful job, and my busy life.

0:33

I didn't realize that my love

0:35

affair with drinking was making me

0:37

more anxious and less able to

0:39

manage my responsibilities. In this podcast,

0:41

my goal is to teach you

0:43

the tried and true secrets of

0:46

creating and living a life you

0:48

don't want to escape from. Each

0:50

week, I'll bring you tools, lessons,

0:52

and conversations to help you drink

0:54

less and live more. I'll teach

0:56

you how to navigate our drinking

0:59

obsessed culture without a buzz. How

1:01

to sit with your emotions when

1:03

you're lonely or angry, frustrated

1:05

or overwhelmed. How to self-sooth

1:07

without a drink and how

1:10

to turn the decision to

1:12

stop drinking from your worst

1:14

case scenario to the best

1:16

decision of your life. I am so

1:18

glad you're here. Now let's get started.

1:21

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coaching.com/class. I cannot wait to

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see you there. Hi

2:52

there. Today we are talking about

2:54

how to get help from your

2:56

primary care provider if you're struggling

2:58

with alcohol. I know this is

3:00

a question that I had and

3:02

that a lot of women have

3:04

in terms of wanting to talk

3:06

to their doctor but also not

3:09

being sure how that will be

3:11

interpreted and how that will show

3:13

up in their file or even

3:15

what their doctor can provide and

3:17

can't provide. So today we are

3:19

talking with someone who can help

3:21

take us through all. All of

3:23

those questions, my guest is Megan

3:25

Pop. She's a family nurse practitioner

3:27

with almost six years of recovery

3:30

from alcohol and 15 years of

3:32

recovery from an eating disorder. She

3:34

opened up her own medical practice

3:36

that specializes in family-centered care, internal

3:38

medicine, and geriatrics. Megan has a

3:40

great passion for mental health and

3:42

sees most of those patients herself.

3:44

She's a mom of three, one

3:46

set of twins, and an avid

3:48

distance runner. So welcome. I'm so

3:50

glad you're here, Megan. Hi, thank

3:53

you so much for having me.

3:55

So happy to be here and

3:57

excited to have this conversation. Yeah,

3:59

this conversation is really important because

4:01

often we tell women who are

4:03

struggling like, talk to your doctor,

4:05

I know that withdrawing from alcohol,

4:07

depending on your body, depending on

4:09

whether you're physically dependent or how

4:11

much you drink, can range from

4:14

just a bad hangover and a

4:16

bunch of symptoms afterwards to something

4:18

that is really truly dangerous that

4:20

that is deadly if you don't

4:22

take care of it. So there's

4:24

also questions about when I go

4:26

to my primary care provider, will

4:28

they put it in my file?

4:30

Can they even help me? What

4:32

can they do if they write

4:35

it down? What does that mean?

4:37

So I'm glad you're here so

4:39

we can answer all of those

4:41

questions. Yeah, no, absolutely. Those are

4:43

all phenomenal questions. And, you know,

4:45

I think it's so interesting with

4:47

alcohol because there's such a spectrum

4:49

and such a great area and

4:51

every patient is coming to you

4:53

with an individualistic need and treatment.

4:55

So, yeah, I'm excited to have

4:58

this conversation. Yeah. And there's also

5:00

questions about like what it means

5:02

for future treatment, what it means

5:04

for anything else or any stigma

5:06

that might be associated with it.

5:08

what can primary care doctors actually

5:10

do to help you? Yeah, no,

5:12

that's great. So first, I mean,

5:14

I'll jump right into it. You

5:16

know, I think with alcohol, alcohol

5:19

isn't necessary, the problem. It's the

5:21

ineffective solution, right? It's a maladaptive

5:23

coping strategy or coping mechanism. And

5:25

so I think a lot of

5:27

people, you know, they come to

5:29

their primary care provider and that

5:31

that primary care provider may not

5:33

be you know that educated in

5:35

alcohol use disorder alcoholism or even

5:37

addiction at all or they may

5:39

have their own like internal bias

5:42

or prejudice when it comes to

5:44

their own alcohol use so they

5:46

may not be great in terms

5:48

of you know the addiction side

5:50

of things but they might be

5:52

able to help you figure out

5:54

the wise? Why is the patient

5:56

drinking? Why is the patient trying

5:58

to escape their life? Do patients

6:00

have a co-occurring, you know, mental

6:03

health disorder, anxiety, depression, borderline personality,

6:05

you know, bipolar? Do they have

6:07

something, other trauma, some PTSD, something

6:09

going on at home, their marriage,

6:11

their social status? I mean, all

6:13

of those things a PCP can

6:15

help screen for? They can also

6:17

obviously do blood work, see if

6:19

you have some type of medical

6:21

condition, and then they can do

6:24

appropriate referrals to get you into

6:26

the right type of care, whether

6:28

that be an addiction treatment center,

6:30

you know, a psychotherapist, a psychiatrist,

6:32

support group, grief counselor, PTSD therapist.

6:34

I mean, they're going to be

6:36

the hub for you and and

6:38

getting that, you know, treatment appropriate

6:40

to what you need. Yeah. And

6:42

I don't know about you, but...

6:44

it's pretty varied in terms of

6:47

how much time you actually even

6:49

get with a primary care provider.

6:51

I know when I've gone for

6:53

my annual checkups or I went

6:55

because I was having really bad

6:57

anxiety, you know, the nurse comes

6:59

in typing all the stuff, they

7:01

ask why you're, they do whatever,

7:03

take your blood pressure and then

7:05

the primary care provider comes in

7:08

and reads the form and checks

7:10

you out for X amount of

7:12

time, which is not usually that

7:14

well. And I know for me,

7:16

sometimes it's hard to get in

7:18

with my main primary care provider.

7:20

So I just get sent to

7:22

whoever is around and it's hard

7:24

to establish a relationship there. So

7:26

like, what do you think about

7:28

that? Yeah, no, that's a good

7:31

question. You know, for me, I

7:33

have 15-minute appointments for patients that

7:35

I've already seen before or a

7:37

30-minute appointment with a new patient.

7:39

And that's typically across the board

7:41

what primary care providers will allot

7:43

for themselves. Unless it's like a

7:45

comprehensive type of holistic doctor, they

7:47

might do a little bit more

7:49

time with their patients. But you

7:52

know, patients and providers like a

7:54

provider should really, you know, focus

7:56

on their patient and never make

7:58

them feel rushed. You can get

8:00

a lot done in 15 minutes

8:02

if you're efficient with your time

8:04

and you're actively listening to your

8:06

patient. So yeah, I mean, I

8:08

think in terms of time like.

8:10

And for a patient, my advice

8:13

would be to come with a

8:15

list of questions, because I think

8:17

you get in the room, I

8:19

have even done this as a

8:21

patient myself, and you get your

8:23

anxieties out of control, you are

8:25

distracted by the medical assistant that

8:27

came in, all these people are

8:29

coming in, all these people are

8:31

coming in, there's like an interrogation

8:33

light on your face, and you

8:36

can kind of lose sight of

8:38

why you came in the first

8:40

place, and then you leave the

8:42

appointment, you're just makes everything more

8:44

organized. Yeah. And so when I

8:46

first went to like 95% of

8:48

the time, I went to see

8:50

my primary care provider, and I

8:52

was not ready to stop drinking,

8:54

even if I was worried about

8:57

it, they would ask you where

8:59

you would write down and say,

9:01

okay, how much do you drink?

9:03

And I would be like, a

9:05

couple drinks couple times a week,

9:07

right? And even when This is

9:09

funny when I finally stopped drinking

9:11

I was probably a couple months

9:13

sober was the first time I

9:15

saw my doctor and like actually

9:17

wrote down how much I used

9:20

to drink but I was like

9:22

oh I never drink anything now

9:24

and I was so proud of

9:26

myself but then something got written

9:28

in my chart and I was

9:30

like dude I don't drink any

9:32

for like why are you writing

9:34

that down you know so first

9:36

I want to ask like when

9:38

someone, well, what are the usual

9:41

symptoms of someone who is drinking

9:43

that people should be aware of?

9:45

Like, if you are feeling X,

9:47

it might be related to your

9:49

alcohol consumption. Like, let's start there

9:51

and then kind of decide whether

9:53

you need to talk to your

9:55

PCP. Yeah, absolutely. So mild symptoms

9:57

of an alcohol use disorder are,

9:59

you know, the next morning having

10:02

some nausea, maybe vomiting, you know,

10:04

some like agitation or anxiety, feeling

10:06

a little restless in your skin.

10:08

Those are kind of some of

10:10

the physical symptoms. You know, more

10:12

severe or moderate to severe symptoms

10:14

would be like tremors, trouble swallowing.

10:16

You can get that esophageal stricture

10:18

in your throat or like coughing

10:20

up blood if you have esophageal

10:22

varices. If you're having hallucinations, that's

10:25

a really severe symptom. Obviously seizures,

10:27

seizures, extreme symptom. You know, you

10:29

know, are you not finding joy

10:31

in the things that you use

10:33

to find... joy in? That's a

10:35

big one. Are you starting to

10:37

have consequences because of your drinking?

10:39

Are people starting to notice you're

10:41

drinking your bad, you know, outcomes

10:43

when you do drink? You know,

10:46

are you starting to miss work?

10:48

You know, that happens a lot.

10:50

Maybe you need a medical excuse

10:52

because you miss so much work

10:54

from your drinking. Are you having

10:56

to drink more? That's a big

10:58

one that I definitely. Yeah, for

11:00

sure. When you are talking to

11:02

people, you know, I know that

11:04

I went for a long time

11:06

to my therapist or to my

11:09

doctor and talked about a couple

11:11

things. I talked about insomnia. So,

11:13

hey, I'm so stressed out, I

11:15

wake up at 3 a.m. X,

11:17

Y, Z. I talked about anxiety.

11:19

I talked about some depression. I

11:21

did not talk about my drinking.

11:23

And I was kind of surprised

11:25

they took my answer. I would

11:27

say I was relieved. They took

11:30

my answer in terms of how

11:32

much I was drinking at face

11:34

value. But what happened there is

11:36

they prescribed me like sleep, I

11:38

got sleep medication. on top of

11:40

drinking a bottle of wine a

11:42

night, I would take an ambient.

11:44

And I know that's extraordinarily dangerous.

11:46

I'm not sure I knew that

11:48

then. I don't think I knew

11:50

that then. Can you talk about

11:53

sort of the issue? I was

11:55

also taking anti-insidy meds. I mean,

11:57

you know, it's hysterical. I mean,

11:59

not really, but I was taking

12:01

all these medications to counteract the

12:03

effects of the alcohol I was

12:05

drinking. So common. I mean, I

12:07

see this all the time. And

12:09

I, because of my own experience

12:11

through, you know, my own alcohol

12:14

use disorder and learning so much

12:16

about addiction, I'm really good at

12:18

screening for these types of things

12:20

now. So basically, you know, higher

12:22

blood pressure, reflux, insomnia, those three

12:24

a.m. wake up. So basically what

12:26

happened is, you're drinking alcohol, it's

12:28

a depress. like kind of numbing

12:30

that sympathetic nervous system in your

12:32

body. In your body you have

12:35

a sympathetic nervous system and a

12:37

parasympathetic is fight or flight, parasympathetic

12:39

is rest and digest and we're

12:41

constantly trying to remain in homeostasis

12:43

in that balance. So when you

12:45

drink alcohol you're suppressing that fight

12:47

or flight. So the reason you

12:49

wake up at 3 a.m. is

12:51

because that's been suppressed and now

12:53

it's ready to come out in

12:55

full force. So when you wake

12:58

up at 3 a.m. as the

13:00

alcohol is wearing. you're walking up

13:02

at 3 a.m. after a night

13:04

of drinking, you know exactly what

13:06

I'm talking about. Your heart is

13:08

racing, it's beating out of your

13:10

chest, you might be sweating, you

13:12

feel impending doom, you feel like,

13:14

you know, pending doom. Like I

13:16

didn't know that that feeling of

13:19

doom was common other than me,

13:21

but I definitely felt it. Yeah,

13:23

I had my own experience with

13:25

this. I went to a doctor,

13:27

you know, probably six months before

13:29

I decided to stop drinking. And

13:31

I had all of those symptoms.

13:33

I had hypertension. I had horrible

13:35

reflux. I was throwing up blood.

13:37

I was so anxious. I was

13:39

so anxious. I mean, I was

13:42

having full blown panic attacks. These

13:44

are all the red flags for

13:46

someone to at least ask me

13:48

a question about my relationship with

13:50

alcohol. And that's really why... I'm

13:52

so passionate about what I do

13:54

now because if you can catch

13:56

those patients you can get them

13:58

to go from pre-contemplation to contemplation

14:00

about their relationship with alcohol and

14:03

it can literally change their life.

14:05

So you went into your doctor

14:07

and said, I'm throwing up blood,

14:09

I have reflex, I have insomnia,

14:11

I have anxiety, and did they

14:13

just try to treat the symptoms?

14:15

I mean, what did they say

14:17

to you? What did they think

14:19

was the reason for that? Yeah,

14:21

so in. the provider's defense, and

14:24

she was a great provider, but

14:26

she, you know, I wasn't completely

14:28

honest with her about my alcohol

14:30

use, but she gave me a

14:32

prescription for PepsiPro, neither of which

14:34

I took. But, you know, if

14:36

she had maybe questioned me about

14:38

my relationship with alcohol, I think

14:40

I would have been more open

14:42

to talking about it, but since

14:44

she didn't bring it up, I

14:47

was like, well, it must not

14:49

be, you know. an alcoholic, so

14:51

just cut back a little bit

14:53

when, and I've heard that, right,

14:55

when in fact you really need

14:57

to kind of analyze your relationship

14:59

with it. And it's adorable because

15:01

you're like, oh, just cut back.

15:03

I hadn't thought of that. You

15:05

know, while you're spending like every

15:08

ounce of energy beating yourself up

15:10

or making rules are trying to

15:12

stop and failing. So yeah, I've

15:14

heard people, doctors who've said, well,

15:16

you're not an alcoholic, you don't

15:18

really have a problem, which is

15:20

so dismissive, if someone is brave

15:22

enough to even ask about their

15:24

alcohol use, like, it's like, they've

15:26

been thinking about this for a

15:28

while, it's not casual, like, hey,

15:31

I think I'm drinking too much.

15:33

And then the other thing I've

15:35

heard is like, okay, go to

15:37

A. Like, that's the only thing

15:39

they know, and it. That's not

15:41

where you are. You aren't ready

15:43

for that. You can also feel

15:45

really dismissed because you're like, well,

15:47

I'm not an alcoholic. I don't

15:49

believe or whatever that is or

15:52

you have beliefs around the program

15:54

or whatever. Like those are two

15:56

very, very different answers that really

15:58

don't have much. bearing on

16:00

what's going on specifically with you. Like

16:02

it's not a medical decision. It's a,

16:05

you know. No, absolutely. And I love

16:07

like how we've kind of started to

16:09

use as providers the term alcohol use

16:12

disorder rather than alcoholic because alcohol use

16:14

disorder implies that we're on a spectrum.

16:16

It's not like a present tense type

16:18

of thing. And there's such a gray

16:21

area and patients are going to kind

16:23

of fall all along that spectrum. Like

16:25

you might have a patient that does

16:28

need to go to AA because of

16:30

the accessibility of it or the severity

16:32

of it or whatever. But then you

16:34

have a patient who's maybe just having

16:37

occasionally bad episodes from drinking. probably it's

16:39

heading on the wrong path, that would

16:41

do much better on like an online

16:43

recovery platform or celebrate recovery, something different

16:46

in terms of using that label alcoholic.

16:48

So yeah, it would be great if

16:50

providers were more educated on the different

16:53

types of avenues of recovery. I mean,

16:55

there's so much more. AA is great.

16:57

However, it's been around a long time

16:59

and we have so many more players

17:02

on the field now when it comes

17:04

to recovery. Yeah. Yeah, and one thing

17:06

you said when we were talking about

17:09

this before we jumped on, I wrote

17:11

it down because I thought it was

17:13

such a great way to ask the

17:15

question without saying too much. And I

17:18

don't know, we probably shouldn't be concerned

17:20

about what we say to our doctors,

17:22

but I'm just trying to be. thinking

17:25

about the way that I felt when

17:27

I was first coming into this. You

17:29

said you could approach them by saying

17:31

I'm really interested in my relationship with

17:34

alcohol based on how much I've been

17:36

reading about how bad alcohol is for

17:38

you and I want to take a

17:41

look at the effects. It's having or

17:43

it's had on my body and you

17:45

can, they can do lab tests. and

17:47

they can also give you referrals for

17:50

experts in the area without you stating,

17:52

like, I'm super worried about my drinking,

17:54

I'm drinking too much, I'm doing XYC.

17:56

Yeah, absolutely, the way that we work.

17:59

that you know if you don't want

18:01

to just come right out to your

18:03

doctor and say I'm worried I'm an

18:06

alcoholic or however you want to word

18:08

that but instead saying like you said

18:10

I'm curious about my relationship I'm curious

18:12

if any of the amount of alcohol

18:15

that I have consumed has done any

18:17

damage to any of my organs I

18:19

would like blood work I'd like to

18:22

discuss these types of things. And so

18:24

what is done with the blood work?

18:26

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean,

18:28

if you come in, you know, we'll

18:31

kind of start from the beginning. If

18:33

a patient comes in, every provider is

18:35

going to screen for how much alcohol

18:38

a patient is drinking, simply because we

18:40

need the medical history, but also because

18:42

the alcohol can interfere with lots of

18:44

medicines that we might prescribe you. You

18:47

know, there's antibiotics that you can absolutely

18:49

not take with alcohol. I mean, there's,

18:51

you know, blood thinners you can't be

18:53

on without alcohol. graduate school that however

18:56

much the patient tells you they drink

18:58

you have to multiply that by three

19:00

and that's actually how much they're drinking

19:03

so yeah but be honest with your

19:05

provider you know if you can I

19:07

think you know being honest about your

19:09

relationship with alcohol the good that comes

19:12

from that outweighs any bad of anything

19:14

being in your chart so just remember

19:16

that yeah but um But yeah, no

19:19

anyway once we go through that then

19:21

you know it depends on if you're

19:23

there for a physical or you know

19:25

just establishing care about Typically we like

19:28

to get blood work every six to

19:30

12 months and we'll do a full

19:32

panel We check your kidney your liver

19:35

your thyroid, you know sometimes people who

19:37

are drinking a lot over time can

19:39

develop pre-diabetes or diabetes. So we'll screen

19:41

for that a lot of times you'll

19:44

see people with alcohol use disorder have

19:46

vitamin deficiencies? have vitamin deficiencies? start them

19:48

on vitamins or different medicines if we

19:50

need to regarding their blood work. Okay,

19:53

that's super interesting because I never even

19:55

knew exactly what they tested for, although

19:57

I've heard like, oh, there are issues

20:00

with the liver, I have fatty liver,

20:02

whatever that was. Yeah, and fatty liver

20:04

can definitely be exacerbated or even caused

20:06

by alcohol use or just being overweight.

20:09

So sometimes it's just an issue with

20:11

lifestyle management. Yeah, yeah, and I never

20:13

even knew what that was. I just

20:16

sort of heard about it and was

20:18

like, oh, that's something. Yeah, it's like

20:20

fatty deposits in the liver and that

20:22

actually can be reversed. But so this

20:25

is a much different situation. Yeah, yeah.

20:27

Will you tell us a little bit

20:29

about your story? Because when you said

20:32

that, you know, your doctor didn't bring

20:34

it up with all your symptoms, so

20:36

you didn't think it was an issue

20:38

related to your drinking. I mean, you're

20:41

a primary care provider, right? And in

20:43

the medical field. So what was your

20:45

drinking like and how did you realize

20:48

maybe it was an issue? Yeah, I

20:50

mean at that time, you know, I

20:52

was a labor and delivery nurse. I

20:54

was not a primary care provider. I

20:57

actually went to graduate school one month

20:59

sober. I had a fire in me

21:01

to kind of be an advocate for

21:03

people like me. So that's why I

21:06

went to school. But, you know, my

21:08

issues with drinking, I started drinking really

21:10

young, I was 13, and I struggled

21:13

with perfectionism and eating disorder, and you

21:15

see a lot of them. But yeah,

21:17

I mean, I was a college athlete,

21:19

had a lot of pressure on myself,

21:22

so I was more of like, good

21:24

girl during the week and then bender

21:26

on the weekend, and then had, you

21:29

know, three children, I had really bad

21:31

postpartum anxiety, not postpartum depression, I had

21:33

severe postpartum anxiety, I had severe postpartum

21:35

anxiety, which they're very different. It's coming

21:38

out now, some more research about how

21:40

PPA is different in terms of just

21:42

being out of it, right? So yeah,

21:45

I mean fast forwarding to that doctor's

21:47

appointment, I mean I was starting to

21:49

have real consequences physical and you know

21:51

in my light everyday life from my

21:54

drinking and that was six months before

21:56

and so I left that appointment didn't

21:58

take any of those meds and that

22:00

last six months my drinking was really

22:03

bad. It just got worse and worse

22:05

and worse and worse and my last

22:07

day was. April 21st, 2019, I kind

22:10

of had what you would call a

22:12

spiritual awakening moment, a spontaneous sobriety moment.

22:14

I woke up after a three-day bender

22:16

just feeling absolutely horrible about myself. I

22:19

had extreme intrusive suicidal thoughts, which I

22:21

had never had before, and I had

22:23

this voice that was like, just end

22:26

it, like your life is better off

22:28

with, like your kid's life is better

22:30

off without you. These were really scary

22:32

thoughts. And then I had another voice

22:35

telling me just to stand up. And

22:37

when I stood up, I like fell

22:39

to my knees and I begged God

22:42

to save me. I surrendered. I surrendered

22:44

my ego that day. I surrendered spiritually,

22:46

physically, mentally, and I stood up and

22:48

never drank again. So I think I

22:51

had that God on my side. Did

22:53

you get support from that? after that?

22:55

Like where did you go and what

22:57

did you do? Yes, I think I

23:00

had what you would call like a

23:02

boiling point that day. My life had

23:04

come to a culmination and you know

23:07

spiritually, metaphysically, however you want to word

23:09

it, something had changed within me. So

23:11

from there I stood up and I

23:13

called a therapist. I... just said I

23:16

think I need help. I asked for

23:18

help. I think that's what it was.

23:20

I think I was hiding my problem

23:23

for so long and finally I told

23:25

someone and when patients come in and

23:27

talk to me about their issues and

23:29

they're crying and they're looking at me

23:32

and they're looking at me and they

23:34

seem embarrassed. I look at them directly

23:36

in their eye and I say I

23:39

am so proud of you. This part

23:41

right here coming to me and telling

23:43

me you have a problem is an

23:45

act of courage and it is an

23:48

act of courage of courage. So yeah,

23:50

I called a therapist. I told my

23:52

friends, like my best friends didn't even

23:55

know. They had no idea that I

23:57

was struggling as bad as I was.

23:59

And then, you know, I took a

24:01

recovery in like full send mode. I

24:04

went to AA in the next town

24:06

over. I joined like every online recovery

24:08

group and I read every quitlet book

24:10

and I just threw myself into recovery.

24:13

So it really worked for you. Good

24:15

for you. I think the hard thing

24:17

is learning to deal with your emotions

24:20

that first year sober. That was the

24:22

hardest part for me. Tell me about

24:24

that. Yeah, well, I think, you know,

24:26

I couldn't numb out from them anymore.

24:29

I had to feel them. You know,

24:31

what you feel, you heal, what you

24:33

resist, persist. So I was constantly just

24:36

resisting my emotions by numbing them. And

24:38

so, yeah, I learned to feel my

24:40

feelings at 34. And yeah, I mean,

24:42

I still struggle with. you know, some

24:45

big emotions. I do not struggle with

24:47

any cravings or anything, you know, now

24:49

that I'm six years into recovery. But

24:52

yeah, I mean, I think I've learned

24:54

healthy coping skills, which is fun to

24:56

learn in middle age. But I think

24:58

also too, I've become my authentic self.

25:01

I think when you're drinking, you're not

25:03

being authentic to who you are. You're

25:05

an altered version of you. And so

25:07

it's taken me a long time to

25:10

figure out who I am. Yeah, I

25:12

mean, I think that's wonderful and I

25:14

have to say that I don't think

25:17

most of us got taught healthy coping

25:19

mechanisms when we were growing up. I

25:21

mean, I went to therapy after I

25:23

stopped drinking like four months in. I

25:26

had also gone to therapy when I

25:28

was drinking, but like you said, if

25:30

you're not honest with people and you're

25:33

not ready to ask for help, there

25:35

is only so much that therapist can

25:37

do right we were we were addressing

25:39

sort of the the peripheral issues and

25:42

trying to solve for them and hoping

25:44

that that would somehow allow me to

25:46

quote unquote drink like a normal person

25:49

and lo and behold that didn't work

25:51

but I think that, I mean, I

25:53

wish everyone could have a primary care

25:55

provider like you to get that response

25:58

when someone comes in and actually admits

26:00

that they're worried about their drinking or

26:02

that they need help. When I went

26:05

to my doctor and I was having

26:07

severe anxiety after I stopped drinking, which

26:09

I mean, felt great for a while

26:11

and then I had like a severe

26:14

anxiety attack and Amazingly, you know, a

26:16

year later. after figuring out a million

26:18

different things, it turned out I had

26:20

a mood disorder, which had been recurring

26:23

pretty much my whole life. And I

26:25

couldn't know that because I was drinking

26:27

so much, I just blame myself. And

26:30

the symptoms were so mixed up. But

26:32

I went to my doctor at that

26:34

point and said, basically, like, I quit

26:36

drinking, but here's how I feel like.

26:39

total anxiety feel like I can't cope

26:41

want to jump out of my skin

26:43

and I was like I can't go

26:46

back to drinking so you need to

26:48

help me like I was at that

26:50

point yeah and She did. I mean

26:52

she sent me, you know, referred me

26:55

to a great therapist and prescribed some

26:57

anti-inciety medications and I went back to

26:59

her a couple different times and then

27:02

my therapist took me up with a

27:04

psychiatrist who was able to better prescribe

27:06

medication for what I needed and at

27:08

the same time I was working with

27:11

the coach and in the online groups

27:13

and not not drinking and working out

27:15

and trying all these other things to

27:17

make me feel better as well. Yeah,

27:20

I mean I think what you're talking

27:22

about is like even if the provider

27:24

doesn't have their own experience with alcohol

27:27

or addiction, you know, if they approach

27:29

you with empathy and understanding, shame can

27:31

exist. Shame will die, you know, and

27:33

so that can help a patient so

27:36

much. And then the other thing that's

27:38

so interesting about your story is that

27:40

your provider did a really good job

27:43

figuring out your why. your why of

27:45

drinking was because you had an underlying,

27:47

you know, co-occurring mood disorder, and that

27:49

helped you stay sober. So that was

27:52

actually a really good provider that did

27:54

that. Yeah, and that was after I

27:56

was in therapy for like a year,

27:59

and I was on, I think I

28:01

was on LexiPro, and which is anti-insidy,

28:03

anti-depression, something to that effect. Both, yeah,

28:05

SSRI. Yeah, yeah, and I had been

28:08

on it. for like a year and

28:10

I've been seeing her weekly and she

28:12

sort of was like I think that

28:14

this might be something else because this

28:17

seems to sort of descend on you

28:19

with no major trigger and be really

28:21

bad and then sort of lift with

28:24

no major solution. And if you were

28:26

on Lexa Prayer or whatever, this shouldn't

28:28

be happening in the same way. And

28:30

so that was really helpful in finally

28:33

figuring that out, but I wouldn't have

28:35

known that if I hadn't, you know,

28:37

been journaling or writing my coach, like

28:40

I could look back and literally see

28:42

exactly when it started when it started.

28:44

how I felt when it lifted. I

28:46

mean, it was kind of incredible. Yeah.

28:49

And I think a good therapist or

28:51

a good provider can see those blind

28:53

spots for you. And that's why finding

28:56

a good one is so essential, you

28:58

know. Yeah. Well, so we talked about

29:00

some of the things that your primary

29:02

care provider can do and can help

29:05

you with. And one of the things

29:07

I asked you is. What can primary

29:09

care providers prescribe? What can't they prescribe?

29:12

Sort of, you know, what areas are

29:14

they able to help in what areas

29:16

do you need to go elsewhere? Yeah,

29:18

that's also a really good question. So

29:21

in terms of medicine, they can definitely

29:23

prescribe the treatment for anxiety and depression.

29:25

You know, if you're dealing with kind

29:27

of a... bipolar or schizophrenia, that has

29:30

to be treated by a psychiatrist, but

29:32

they can refer you out for that.

29:34

So when you are looking at anxiety

29:37

and depression, you know, those are SSRIs,

29:39

SNRIs, serotonin re-uptaking inhibitors, and NORPANFERIN, so

29:41

those meds can be given by a

29:43

PCP. If you're looking for medicines like

29:46

Naltrexone or Annabus, those medicines have to

29:48

be prescribed, you typically by like a

29:50

pain clinic or an addiction treatment center.

29:53

Again, we can refer you out for

29:55

those. Will you tell us what Antibus

29:57

and now Trexone are and how they

29:59

work? Yeah, absolutely. So now Trexone is

30:02

a medicine that kind of blocks like

30:04

the opioid receptor. so that when you

30:06

take the medicine and you drink, you

30:09

feel less pleasurable effects from the drink

30:11

itself or the drug, whatever drug it

30:13

is that you're using. So you'll see

30:15

someone actually kind of try to moderate

30:18

their drinking with Naltrexone. And you know,

30:20

the good is that yes, they're going

30:22

to learn over time that even if

30:24

I have four beers, I don't get

30:27

any dopamine hits from this. So over

30:29

three to six months, I'm going to

30:31

stop drinking. I'm going to. take it

30:34

on days that they want and then

30:36

the days that they want to binge

30:38

drink they're not going to take it.

30:40

Well and I also wonder that I

30:43

mean four drinks is pretty harmful to

30:45

your body and to your sleep and

30:47

to your anxiety so you're not getting

30:50

the dopamine hit but you're still doing

30:52

the harm to your body I wonder

30:54

if people would just drink more to

30:56

try to get that dopamine hit or

30:59

they keep drinking so that they don't

31:01

have to deal with the social emotional

31:03

pressure slash you know fitting in slash

31:06

questions slash whatever and yet they're still

31:08

consuming the substance that is causing all

31:10

these other symptoms. Yeah, I think for,

31:12

you know, my own experience just having,

31:15

you know, these patients come back to

31:17

me after they've been started on it.

31:19

I've seen a few patients that they

31:22

were really successful on it. So I

31:24

don't want to completely knock it. So

31:26

I don't want to completely knock it.

31:28

So I know. Yeah, it's not my

31:31

favorite drug of choice because there's so

31:33

many other, so there's not my favorite

31:35

drug of choice because there's so many

31:37

different. from alcohol because if you take

31:40

an abuse and you drink, you're going

31:42

to get violently ill. GI, you know,

31:44

vomiting, that type of thing. So that

31:47

one should be for someone who's planning

31:49

on abstinence, where in our track, someone

31:51

could be someone that's trying to moderate.

31:53

Yeah. And how does, I mean, it

31:56

sounds like ant abuse, you would take

31:58

it with a preventative. you know, like

32:00

it, I literally cannot drink or I

32:03

will be very sick. Yeah, yeah. And

32:05

I think if you use these meds

32:07

as a tool in your tool in

32:09

your tool, instead of an end all

32:11

be all, then they're more successful.

32:13

Yeah, I've had, you know, coaching

32:15

clients that I've worked with who

32:17

have done really well with abuse

32:20

as a, it takes the decision

32:22

off the table versus debating or

32:24

being like, I'll only have one

32:26

or whatever it is. And a

32:28

couple have taken now Trexone too,

32:30

but as a coach I really

32:32

advocate not drinking at all for

32:34

at least 100 days. I mean,

32:36

I advocate, you know, getting away

32:39

from alcohol completely and not moderating,

32:41

but now Trexone, I think helped

32:43

them be like, even if I

32:45

were to drink, I wouldn't get

32:47

the payoff I want. Mm-hmm. I

32:49

think for majority of people, moderating

32:51

your drinking is extremely mentally

32:54

exhausting and almost impossible. I

32:56

don't know that I've ever

32:58

met anyone that's been successful

33:01

at just cutting back, you know,

33:03

so. Yeah. Yeah, or at least not for a

33:05

long. I know it's a lot of

33:07

like white knuckling being irritated when you're

33:09

not drinking and then basically breaking it

33:11

five days or seven days or whatever.

33:14

Or you decide, I mean, I decided

33:16

a million times I was only going

33:18

to have two drinks a night or

33:20

only one or only when I'm out.

33:22

I mean, that literally never happened. Like

33:24

if I did it, it was once

33:26

and and it was really hard. Yeah,

33:28

the other thing about the Naltrexone and

33:31

the Annabuses, while those do work

33:33

occasionally, we're not also diving into

33:35

the why. Why is the person

33:37

drinking? Because that's what's going to

33:39

keep someone sober. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

33:41

And that's something that a therapist

33:44

can help with. Can your primary

33:46

care provider do that in the

33:48

time that you're with them or

33:50

how how would someone approach that? Yeah,

33:52

I think that they you know if they're you

33:54

know a good provider, they're listening, you know that

33:56

the way to be a good provider is to

33:58

be a good communicator and a good listener.

34:00

So if they're doing those two things,

34:02

I think they can help screen for

34:05

that, you know, and ask the right

34:07

questions. Yeah. And so you had mentioned

34:09

that there were certain antibiotics, certain drugs

34:11

that you absolutely should not take if

34:14

you were drinking. I mentioned that I

34:16

actually didn't figure out how dangerous it

34:18

was for me to take a sleeping

34:20

med after drinking a bottle of wine.

34:22

And honestly, when I would get all

34:25

these medications and they would say... Yeah,

34:27

you can't drink on these. I thought

34:29

that, you know, it was sort of

34:31

like CYA, like the doctors had to

34:34

say that, but they didn't really meet

34:36

it. Will you tell us what the

34:38

specific ones are that would be dangerous

34:40

combined with alcohol and what the effects

34:43

could possibly be? Yeah, absolutely. So the

34:45

biggest one, like antibiotic-wise, is flagell, like

34:47

you 100% cannot drink on that antibiotic.

34:49

Flagell is typically used. Flagell? Flagell, yeah,

34:51

it's an antibiotic that we use. And

34:54

that, you know, you see people use

34:56

flagell for like bacterial vaginosis or diverticulitis.

34:58

It's not a super common one, but

35:00

if you do have a patient population

35:03

of, you know, younger women, you're going

35:05

to see a lot more of that

35:07

type of. dehydration. And then you know

35:09

in terms of psych meds you know

35:12

benzodiazepines like Xanax or Azapam they have

35:14

such a depressant effect on you and

35:16

alcohol is a depressant so you get

35:18

like a synergistic effect of that. depressing

35:20

of the central nervous system, and you

35:23

can possibly not even wake up if

35:25

you're drinking on those medicines. And then

35:27

the well butrin, that one's anoreponephrine, it

35:29

can lower your seizure threshold so that

35:32

if you drink, you can actually, you're

35:34

at higher risk to have a seizure,

35:36

and then SSRIs, again, depress the central

35:38

nervous system, so you have to be

35:41

very careful with your alcohol use. There's

35:43

some you can drink a little bit

35:45

with, but if you're a detox. What

35:47

are the symptoms that someone would need

35:49

assistance? to stop drinking? Does tapering work

35:52

or at what point do you go

35:54

to an emergency room? You know what

35:56

I mean? Like what if you've stopped

35:58

drinking and then you start having symptoms?

36:01

I've never been quite clear on where

36:03

that line is. Yeah, absolutely. So there's

36:05

a score that we do, like a

36:07

screening tool called the CWA score, and

36:10

it's like kind of a range. So

36:12

zero to eight would be symptoms, like

36:14

how we score it, like headache, brain

36:16

fog, maybe like itchy. feeling warm, not

36:18

being able to like kind of cool

36:21

down. That one, you can probably, you

36:23

know, just stop drinking on your own,

36:25

you're fine. Eight to 15, this is

36:27

where you're having some tremors, you know,

36:30

extreme agitation, extreme anxiety. That one can

36:32

usually be... What are tremors? Is that

36:34

just when your hand shakes? Yeah, usually,

36:36

you'd bilateral, so not, you know, one-sided,

36:39

so you'll see patient's hands shake, shake

36:41

a little bit. That one, you know,

36:43

you know, you know, you know, you

36:45

know, you can probably, you can probably,

36:48

you can probably, do what's called a

36:50

benzodiazepine taper, like a two-week adavan or

36:52

alprasolam, clenazepam taper. Do you take that

36:54

help? Yeah, they'll give you a two

36:56

week prescription. So your primary care provider

36:59

can help you with that. Yeah, absolutely.

37:01

They can taper you as long as

37:03

you're following in that 8 to 15

37:05

on the CYWA score. And then if

37:08

you're scoring over 15 on that score,

37:10

that means you're having, you know, hallucinations,

37:12

visual auditory hallucinations, extreme tremors, maybe you

37:14

even have a seizure that typically those

37:17

patients are coming in through the emergency

37:19

room. That has to be a medical

37:21

detox facility. Okay. And so do you

37:23

recommend that people go and try to

37:25

taper or talk to their doctor at

37:28

a certain level of alcohol consumption or

37:30

if they try to stop and then

37:32

the symptoms come? What's your take on

37:34

that? Yeah, I would always try to

37:37

discuss with your doctor about how to

37:39

taper because it is one of those

37:41

drugs that you can die from if

37:43

you don't withdraw appropriately. I mean, it's

37:46

very... serious how you withdraw from alcohol.

37:48

So because of the risk of seizures

37:50

and what's called delirium tremens, which is

37:52

a condition where we get abnormal heart

37:54

rhythms, higher risk procedures and the hypothermia.

37:57

So yeah, definitely talk to your doctor

37:59

about it. But yeah, definitely talk to

38:01

your doctor about it. But yeah, I

38:03

mean, I think if you can safely,

38:06

you know, you're going back to your

38:08

PCP in and then also doing, you

38:10

know, you know, the wise of the

38:12

drinking, not just doing the taper. Yeah,

38:15

okay, that's great. So what would be

38:17

the red flags or the green flags

38:19

if you are talking to a doctor

38:21

and you're, you know, like, okay, this

38:23

is someone who can help me or

38:26

this is someone who might not be

38:28

a great fit as a doctor and

38:30

I should try to approach someone else?

38:32

Yeah, I love this question. So, you

38:35

know, in general, my favorite thing to

38:37

say is, you know, a provider should

38:39

avoid three things. One is sameness, treating

38:41

every patient the same. And this happened

38:44

to me not too long ago. I

38:46

went to see a provider and they

38:48

were talking to me like they were

38:50

reading from a prompter and I knew

38:52

that they had said this exact same

38:55

thing to me. the 12 other patients

38:57

that day, that's a red flag to

38:59

me. You know, the other one is

39:01

complacency. So avoid sameness, avoid complacency. Complacency

39:04

means that a provider is not using

39:06

evidence-based practice. So are they going to

39:08

medical conferences? Are they learning new information

39:10

coming down the line? You know, one

39:13

of my favorite things to say is

39:15

if you have a doctor that's telling

39:17

you that alcohol is good for you,

39:19

even, you know, a glass a day,

39:21

then's the blood, or it's the blood,

39:24

or it's good for your cholesterol. the

39:26

certain general has now come out and

39:28

said it there's actually no amount of

39:30

alcohol that is good for you so

39:33

if you have an old school doc

39:35

still trying to tell you that that's

39:37

a red flag and then the last

39:39

one is pity you know if you

39:42

have a doctor looking at you with

39:44

pity I think that's a red flag

39:46

as well I think that you know

39:48

empathy is something you know is it

39:50

nature is it nurture I'm not sure

39:53

where we learn it they definitely don't

39:55

teach you empathy in school, but I

39:57

mean, empathy is learning to sit in

39:59

the dark with the patient and then

40:02

grabbing their hand and pulling them to

40:04

the light. So if a patient or

40:06

a provider is looking at you with,

40:08

you know, judgment and self-righteousness instead of

40:11

injecting curiosity into what's going on with

40:13

you, that's a red flag. So red

40:15

flags would also be. If you ever

40:17

go to a doctor, this is my

40:20

like least favorite thing. And they are

40:22

looking at the screen the whole time

40:24

and they never look at you. That

40:26

nonverbal communication is a big red flag

40:28

for me as well. Like look at

40:31

me. I had a really good instructor

40:33

in graduate school that was like don't

40:35

treat the computer, treat the patient. So

40:37

I think that's another red flag. And

40:40

then also like leaving the appointment feeling

40:42

rushed, unheard, invalidated, disrespected. You know, there's

40:44

a new term out called medical gas

40:46

lighting. And I think that. That's a

40:49

big one where a provider might make

40:51

you feel like it's all in your

40:53

head or your pain isn't real. Those

40:55

are big red flags. And then in

40:57

terms of green flags, like, you know,

41:00

green flags are someone that is actively

41:02

communicating, actively listening. They make you feel

41:04

validated. You know, a provider may have

41:06

20 patients that day, but... they can

41:09

really, if they are actively engaging with

41:11

you, then you're going to feel like

41:13

you were heard and you were validated,

41:15

you know, ordering appropriate tests. So another

41:18

red flag would be someone that's ordering

41:20

unnecessary tests and making the appointment really

41:22

expensive. So someone that's doing the appointment

41:24

really expensive. So someone that's doing the

41:26

appropriate type of follow-up blood work or

41:29

treatments, you know, I think also a

41:31

provider that's available. That's a big one

41:33

for me. Like can I get in

41:35

contact with them? Yeah, those are great.

41:38

I was thinking of a couple examples

41:40

when you were saying that I had

41:42

actually gone to a new primary care

41:44

provider and I wanted to ask about

41:47

hormone replacement therapy because I had just

41:49

listened to a podcast all about it

41:51

and I was like, and then I

41:53

had a friend who had done it

41:55

and said it was great and yada

41:58

yada yada. And the doctor said to

42:00

me, well, that's a last resort because

42:02

hormone replacement therapy causes breast cancer. And

42:04

I was like, but I didn't want

42:07

to be like the podcast I just

42:09

listened to told me that was completely

42:11

untrue because I didn't want to be

42:13

that girl. But I did, I was

42:16

like, okay, she's not the doctor that

42:18

I can talk to about this, right?

42:20

Yeah, I mean, and you are correct,

42:22

hormone replacement therapy does not cause breast

42:24

cancer. All of those studies have been

42:27

debunked. I just went to a medical

42:29

conference about this, big fan of HRT

42:31

for the right type of patient. But

42:33

yeah, I mean, in that case, you

42:36

could put her in replace and let

42:38

her know, maybe go check the evidence-based

42:40

research, but the other option is, you

42:42

know, just keep advocating for your own

42:45

care and find a different provider. I

42:47

think when you are looking at providers,

42:49

it's like. So yeah, and I was

42:51

talking to Amanda E. White. We did

42:53

an episode called Therapy for Women. I'll

42:56

link to it on the show notes.

42:58

And she was talking about how, you

43:00

know, you should talk to two or

43:02

three therapists in the beginning. You can

43:05

tell your therapist, hey, I'm. I'm really,

43:07

you know, it's important to me to

43:09

find the right fit, so I'm talking

43:11

to a couple different therapists, I want

43:14

to find someone I connect with. And,

43:16

you know, I think we go in

43:18

and we take the first available and

43:20

then if we, we feel guilty, if

43:22

we want to change it, like you're

43:25

cheating on your hairdresser and you just

43:27

don't want, you don't want the therapist

43:29

to like be mad at you, or

43:31

you're like, it must be something on

43:34

me if I'm not connecting, looking for

43:36

a therapist and sort of giving you

43:38

permission to talk to a number of

43:40

different ones to find the one that's

43:43

a right fit for you. And I

43:45

think that can apply to doctors as

43:47

well, right? Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, not

43:49

to get to metaphysical on you, but

43:51

I think we're all connected energetically to

43:54

consciousness. And sometimes we're just not on

43:56

the same. frequency as other people. You

43:58

know, it's almost like you can feel

44:00

it in the room. If the vibes

44:03

are good, you're feeling safe. Ultimately, you

44:05

know, when you're with your provider, you

44:07

should feel like it's a safe space

44:09

and that you don't feel rushed or

44:12

that they're not listening to you. Yeah.

44:14

Well, so as we wrap up, what

44:16

else should someone listening to this? Maybe

44:18

someone who's worried about... the alcohol that

44:21

they're consuming, they might be worried about

44:23

what it's done to their body or

44:25

they're having anxiety, they're having panic, they're

44:27

having that doom feeling, which I know

44:29

I did, waking up at 3 AM,

44:32

like what should be their next step

44:34

or what do you want them to

44:36

know as we're sort of wrapping this

44:38

up? Yeah, I think if you're afraid,

44:41

you know, to talk to your primary

44:43

care provider or your therapist, maybe go

44:45

into the appointment just being like, I'm

44:47

curious about my relationship with alcohol. What

44:50

can we do to discuss that and

44:52

kind of open it in that way

44:54

rather than being like, I think I

44:56

have a problem which a lot of

44:58

people would struggle saying that. I think

45:01

that could really open up some good

45:03

dialogue between you and the provider. I

45:05

also think, you know, you know, in

45:07

terms of my own experience, asking for

45:10

help literally changed my life for the

45:12

better. I resisted that. I was like,

45:14

I suffered from hyper-independence and perfectionism, so

45:16

I was not going to be the

45:19

one that said I had a problem

45:21

until my life was almost over, you

45:23

know? And so I will scream from

45:25

the rooftops that it is okay to

45:27

ask for help, and I think it's

45:30

a sign of strength when you do.

45:32

It's not a sign of you being

45:34

weak at all. It's the opposite of

45:36

that. Yeah, and I mean I did

45:39

the same thing. I was, you know,

45:41

worried about my drinking for a very

45:43

long time, but it was sort of

45:45

the death of a thousand cuts and

45:48

I kind of had four or five

45:50

of those cuts in the week before

45:52

I ended up quitting and it was,

45:54

you know, hangover or not remembering the

45:56

shows I watch or waking up at

45:59

3M or being brutally hung over or

46:01

not liking the way I looked in

46:03

the way I looked in the mirror.

46:05

private Facebook groups and someone else was

46:08

way braver than me in saying sort

46:10

of day one again because I wasn't

46:12

posting that and in the comments someone

46:14

recommended a sober coach and I I

46:17

went in to work it I went

46:19

in earlier but at 10 a.m. I

46:21

signed up with this coach and you

46:23

know all I thought was like I

46:25

can't do this to myself anymore I

46:28

can't feel this way anymore. Yeah I

46:30

think you bring up a really good

46:32

point that one of the greatest indicators

46:34

that you can keep a patient sober

46:37

is community. You've got to get a

46:39

patient in an accountable community. There are

46:41

so many online that you can join.

46:43

I mean, thank goodness we have that

46:46

now in 2025. And then the other

46:48

thing I'll add is like really, you

46:50

know, getting some self-agency over your life.

46:52

I think that's so important. So kind

46:54

of building up that patient's, you know,

46:57

self-concept and that they have control over,

46:59

you know, certain areas of their life.

47:01

That is a game changer when it

47:03

comes to sobriety as well. That's great.

47:06

This is super helpful. It's a conversation

47:08

I wanted to have for a long

47:10

time because I think that a lot

47:12

of people Don't know what their doctors

47:15

could say don't know exactly how they

47:17

could help them Don't think they're that

47:19

bad, but also if you can get

47:21

referrals or get your blood work done

47:23

or get you know if you don't

47:26

if you have an insurance system where

47:28

you need to move through a primary

47:30

care provider to either get a referral

47:32

to a therapist or a psychiatrist or

47:35

to get, you know, you can get

47:37

prescribed anti-anxiety, anti-depression meds from your, you

47:39

know, I know that most people that

47:41

I've talked to often have an underlying

47:44

mental health issue or poor boundaries or

47:46

difficult relationships or they're overwhelmed. I mean,

47:48

there's always something. Yeah, no,

47:50

absolutely. Yeah, I mean, and like

47:52

I said before, your PCP can

47:54

be your hub for you. They

47:56

can be your home base. So

47:58

finding a good one is essential.

48:01

I mean, and this is also.

48:03

provider that can, you know, go

48:05

with you through the years, you

48:07

know, your family care provider, internist,

48:09

they can be your doctor, you

48:11

know, all the way up until

48:13

you're in a geriatric age range.

48:15

So yeah, that's a lot of

48:17

relationships. Yeah. So how can people

48:19

find you and follow up? Yeah,

48:21

absolutely. Well, if you're in Northeast

48:23

Georgia, I have a practice called

48:25

Northside for Sights Family Medicine and

48:27

Geriatrics. On my Instagram, Megan, I

48:29

lean three. I'm doing a lot

48:31

of cool stuff about nutrition, recovery,

48:33

you know, running if you're into

48:35

that. And then I'm hoping to

48:37

start my own podcast in the

48:39

next few months, so. Oh, that's

48:41

awesome. Oh, one last question I

48:43

had. You mentioned that there is

48:45

a connection between eating disorders and

48:47

alcohol use disorder and they're sort

48:49

of often connected or co-occurring or

48:51

someone who struggles with one might

48:53

struggle with the other. Can you

48:55

talk about that a little bit?

48:57

Yeah, I think ultimately the correlation

48:59

there is the control, right? So

49:01

I know when I was younger

49:03

I developed an eating disorder because

49:06

everything in my life was out

49:08

of control, but I could control

49:10

the food. And kind of similar

49:12

with alcohol, like I'm almost in

49:14

a different way, like I think

49:16

for me, it translated into, you

49:18

know, I am so good, I'm

49:20

doing everything right, I'm making good

49:22

grades, now I want to go

49:24

and be reckless, I want to

49:26

lose control, I want to lose

49:28

control. I mean, honestly, about one

49:30

in four women struggle with an

49:32

eating disorder, you know, growing up

49:34

in the 90s and 2000s and

49:36

the models that we had to

49:38

look up to, I think, probably

49:40

played a lot into that. I

49:42

think now, you know, like my

49:44

children, I think they have a

49:46

better body image than what we

49:48

were looking at when we were

49:50

younger. But, but yeah, I mean,

49:52

a lot of that I think

49:54

also correlates with anxiety, and I

49:56

think that was a big part

49:58

of mine. Yeah, absolutely. I went

50:00

to boarding school and there was

50:02

almost like competitive bulimia like I

50:04

was taught how to be Bilemic.

50:06

I apparently was not very good

50:08

at it. Because I was like,

50:11

okay, this is a lot. I

50:13

don't think I could do this.

50:15

But I mean, you know, people

50:17

were logging their food like I

50:19

ate four carrots for a lunch.

50:21

You know, and so it is

50:23

when we were growing up, it

50:25

was people didn't realize how bad

50:27

it was and we were almost

50:29

teaching each other how to do

50:31

it. BLEEMIA is really interesting. I

50:33

struggled with anorexia and BLEEMIA. Anorexia

50:35

is about control, but BLEEMIA, at

50:37

least in my experience, was like

50:39

a purging of emotions. Like I

50:41

felt rage and I needed to

50:43

get it out and like physically

50:45

get it out. So sometimes BLEEMIA

50:47

is more of an expressive type

50:49

of emotion. Yeah. Okay, well that

50:51

was really helpful. Obviously, I am...

50:53

definitely not an eating disorder expert

50:55

at all. If someone's interested in

50:57

learning more about that, what do

50:59

you recommend? Yeah, I mean, again,

51:01

your PCP can help get you

51:03

into the right centers for that.

51:05

Eating disorders are very hard to

51:07

treat and they can be lifelong.

51:09

And again, there's a lot of

51:11

co-occurring mental health disorders with eating

51:14

disorder, so telling someone kind of

51:16

the same thing, you know, with

51:18

alcohol disorder, making sure someone is

51:20

aware that you're struggling, That's awesome.

51:22

That's super helpful. And that's another

51:24

reason to go to your PCP.

51:26

Well, thank you so much I

51:28

really appreciate it Absolutely, this was

51:30

so much fun. Thank you so

51:32

much for having me on Absolutely

51:34

Thank you for listening to this

51:36

episode of the Hello Someday podcast.

51:38

If you're interested in learning more

51:40

about me, the work I do,

51:42

and access free resources and guides

51:44

to help you build a life

51:46

you love without alcohol, please visit

51:48

Hello Someday Coaching.com. And I would

51:50

be so grateful if you would

51:52

take a few minutes to rate

51:54

and review this podcast so that

51:56

more women can find it and

51:58

join. Join the

52:00

conversation about less and

52:02

living more. more.