0:02

Welcome to the Hello Someday

0:04

podcast, the podcast for busy women

0:06

who are ready to drink less

0:08

and live more. I'm Casey McGuire

0:10

Davidson, X -Red wine girl, turned life

0:12

coach, helping women create lives they

0:15

love without alcohol. But it wasn't

0:17

that long ago that I was

0:19

anxious, overwhelmed and drinking a bottle

0:21

of wine a night to unwind.

0:23

I thought that wine was the

0:25

glue, holding my life together, helping

0:28

me cope with my kids, my

0:30

stressful job and my busy life.

0:33

I didn't realize that my love

0:35

affair with drinking was making me

0:37

more anxious and less able to

0:39

manage my responsibilities. In this podcast,

0:41

my goal is to teach you

0:43

the tried and true secrets of

0:45

creating and living a life you

0:48

don't want to escape from. Each

0:50

week, I'll bring you tools, lessons

0:52

and conversations to help you drink

0:54

less and live more. I'll teach

0:56

you how to navigate our drinking

0:58

obsessed culture without a buzz. How

1:01

to sit with your emotions when

1:03

you're lonely or angry, frustrated or

1:05

overwhelmed. How to self soothe

1:07

without a drink and how to

1:09

turn the decision to stop

1:11

drinking from your worst case scenario

1:13

to the best decision of

1:16

your life. I am so glad you're

1:18

here. Now let's get started. Hey

1:20

there, it's Casey. I have some

1:22

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1:24

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1:26

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2:47

I cannot wait to see

2:50

you there. Hi

2:52

there. Today we are talking about

2:54

how to rebuild trust with your

2:56

body. Katie Harvey is my guest.

2:58

She's a Midwest girl, a non

3:01

diet dietitian, and the host of

3:03

the rebuilding trust with your body

3:05

podcast. She specializes in intuitive eating

3:07

and helping women ditch dieting, stress

3:09

less about food, and make peace

3:12

with their bodies so they can

3:14

feel comfortable in their own skin

3:16

and live life more fully. Katie

3:18

is all about eating the foods

3:20

you love unapologetically without going overboard.

3:23

She. beliefs that you can eat

3:25

for satisfaction while also honoring your

3:27

health. So Katie, welcome. I'm glad

3:29

you're here. Yes, I am so

3:31

excited to be here. Thank you

3:34

for having me. Yeah, and when

3:36

we were connecting, I wanted to

3:38

do this episode because I know

3:40

for myself, but a lot of

3:43

women, by the time they get

3:45

to the point that they're ready

3:47

to stop drinking or take a

3:49

break from drinking, they Really don't

3:51

like how they feel right waking

3:54

up with hangovers feeling like shit,

3:56

but for myself I I also

3:58

really didn't like how I looked,

4:00

right? I was puffy, I was

4:02

bloated, I kept trying to diet,

4:05

but still drinking, which didn't work.

4:07

And one of the big mistakes

4:09

that I made before I was

4:11

successful and that I see a

4:13

lot of women make is trying

4:16

to remove alcohol at the same

4:18

time doing a big diet or

4:20

health kick. So doing a whole 30

4:22

or... a juice cleanse or whatever it

4:24

is. And it's setting yourself up

4:26

to fail, but I, the emotions

4:29

of why we do that is,

4:31

they're real. Absolutely,

4:33

yeah. I mean, it goes to like

4:35

the core of our sense of worthiness,

4:38

you know, like we attach so much

4:40

of that to our body's size and

4:42

shape and appearance and we feel like

4:44

if we don't look a certain way

4:47

that we are not good enough like

4:49

as a person and our culture reinforces

4:51

that, you know, it's like when somebody

4:53

loses weight, they're getting all these accolades

4:56

and compliments and how did you do

4:58

it? And so we get like this

5:00

social currency from it and then of

5:02

course the shame if we gain

5:05

weight and so I mean it

5:07

makes total. sense. Yeah, absolutely. And

5:09

you're right, like everybody, you know,

5:12

doesn't say anything at all if

5:14

you gain weight, but the minute

5:17

you lose some, you get all

5:19

these positive things. In my mind,

5:21

I'm always like, oh, they weren't

5:24

saying it, but they were thinking

5:26

that it was bad or

5:28

whatever it is. So talk to me

5:30

about the work you do and

5:32

how people lose trust with their

5:34

body and how they can regain

5:37

it. Yeah, that's such a good

5:39

question. I love that you're going

5:41

at like the trust angle.

5:43

So as a dietician, the bulk

5:45

of my training was very just

5:48

like medical and you know,

5:50

these are the different nutrition

5:53

interventions based on whatever health

5:55

problem a person has. And

5:57

I think I was very naive.

5:59

to assume that, oh, you know,

6:01

I would just tell people that

6:03

you need to eat this way,

6:06

you know, with this protocol, and

6:08

that people were going to do

6:10

that, no problem, because why wouldn't

6:12

that? That's what they need to

6:14

do for their health. And I

6:16

quickly realized when I started got

6:18

out of school and started working

6:20

with actual human beings that it's

6:22

so much more complicated than that.

6:24

And when we look at like

6:26

our ability to trust ourselves with

6:28

food and listen to our bodies,

6:30

We're all born intuitive eaters and

6:32

so like if you have an

6:34

infant they will cry and they

6:36

want food they want milk or

6:38

formula when they're hungry and when

6:40

they're done they stop and you

6:42

can like try to get that

6:45

baby to take more milk but

6:47

they're probably not going to because

6:49

they know how to listen to

6:51

their bodies and even with toddlers

6:53

they're good about it too like

6:55

they'll unapologetically eat you know a

6:57

whole bunch of goldfish and no

6:59

vegetables because they don't have good

7:01

food bad food thoughts. But then

7:03

sometimes all they want is fruit

7:05

or you might give them a

7:07

cookie and they take one bite

7:09

and they're done because they know

7:11

how to listen to their bodies.

7:13

And then somewhere along the way

7:15

in childhood for most of us

7:17

we start to hear things like

7:19

clean your plate or you have

7:21

to. eat your vegetables before you

7:24

can have your dessert. And the

7:26

unintended consequence is we're teaching the

7:28

child to override the signals of

7:30

their body. That don't stop when

7:32

you're full, stop when your plate

7:34

is empty or choke down these

7:36

vegetables to earn this food that

7:38

you actually want for dessert. And

7:40

then as we get older and

7:42

we're exposed more to just diet

7:44

culture that's all around us. We

7:46

start to absorb more and more

7:48

of these messages of good food

7:50

and bad food. And then if

7:52

someone grows up in a home

7:54

where someone is dieting or maybe

7:56

as a child you were put

7:58

on a diet or told to

8:01

lose weight. Now we've got that

8:03

entering the equation and you can

8:05

see where the trust with ourselves

8:07

gets eroded over time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

8:10

And you're given so many

8:12

different messages. I mean, I

8:14

remember when I was like

8:16

11, my mom would actually

8:18

pay us if she didn't eat like

8:20

the donuts she bought from us

8:22

for the week and I was

8:24

just like. at the time I was

8:26

like sure I can help earn some

8:29

money but looking back I'm like oh

8:31

that's messed up yeah or I hear

8:33

a lot from people that they were paid

8:35

to lose weight if they're really

8:37

like they were overweight yeah I'll

8:39

pay you to lose weight oh

8:41

wow that's such a bad message

8:43

and I get well and I'm

8:45

like it's coming from this well-intended

8:47

part on the parent where it's

8:49

like I don't want my child

8:51

to suffer but e yeah Yeah, I mean

8:54

it's it's so hard growing up

8:56

in the culture we are and

8:58

I've you know over the last

9:00

I would say decades since I've

9:03

been learning more about it

9:05

have been way more aware

9:07

of diet culture and of

9:10

the messed up thoughts and

9:12

actions that we have and

9:14

yet at the same time I'm

9:16

still bought into it and trying

9:18

to decondition myself. Like I'm aware

9:20

that my thoughts are fucked up

9:23

and yet I'm still a part

9:25

of it. Like it's just, it's a

9:27

my fault. Like I'm just like,

9:29

it was almost easier when I

9:31

wasn't aware of diet culture as

9:34

much, like, because at least then

9:36

I didn't have this internal like

9:38

conflict every minute of every day.

9:40

For sure. Yeah, there's like a blissful

9:42

ignorance to it, you know. Yeah,

9:44

yeah, it is. I mean, it's

9:47

messages all around us. And for

9:49

all of us who are alive

9:51

today, we were born into a

9:53

society that already had all of

9:55

this diet mentality going on. And

9:57

by that, I just mean, you

9:59

know, Like. putting weight loss on

10:01

a pedestal, the fear of fatness,

10:03

these ideas about like good food

10:05

and bad food, and granted, that's

10:07

such a moving target, you know,

10:09

we've been through all the different

10:11

eras of the types of diets

10:13

that are popular and we live

10:16

through the low fat era and

10:18

the snack wells cookies and now

10:20

we're in another low carb era.

10:22

And it's, so the idea of

10:24

what's healthy and not healthy, it

10:26

kind of changes over time, but

10:28

there's always been some type of

10:30

belief system. around that and then

10:32

we start to attach our own

10:34

moral character to it of like

10:36

I'm a good person when I

10:38

eat a salad and I'm a

10:40

bad person when I eat a

10:42

brownie and then all of that

10:44

spirals into like well screw it

10:46

I already blew it so now

10:48

I'm just gonna eat the whole

10:50

pan of brownies. Yeah and it's

10:52

you know weirdly so this is

10:54

something I come across a lot

10:56

so The thought process when you

10:58

are trying to take a break

11:00

from drinking or stop and then

11:02

you drink again is very similar

11:05

to some ways when you're trying

11:07

to quote unquote eat healthy slash

11:09

lose weight slash go on a

11:11

diet meaning you're all resolved you've

11:13

got all the willpower a lot

11:15

of times you also berate yourself

11:17

and talk shit to yourself like

11:19

I drink too much, this is

11:21

bad, I have to stop, I'm

11:23

a piece of shit, what the

11:25

hell is wrong with me, I'm

11:27

gonna do this, and then you

11:29

get to Thursday or three days,

11:31

five days and you're like, fuck

11:33

it, I can't do this, I'm

11:35

gonna break anyway, why deny myself

11:37

now, yada yada yada, and then

11:39

you start again on Monday. And

11:41

that to me was very very

11:43

similar to how I used to

11:45

be around foods when I was

11:47

trying to diet. And yet, it's

11:49

very different, meaning that like, your

11:52

body doesn't need alcohol at all.

11:54

Your body does actually need food.

11:56

And a lot of times when

11:58

we're trying to quote unquote diet.

12:00

we are denying our body the

12:02

food we need and not getting

12:04

the protein or the fat or

12:06

whatever it is. So where is

12:08

my advice with stopping drinking is

12:10

you know unless you are

12:13

medically needed to detox because

12:15

that can be very dangerous

12:17

but if you're not physically

12:19

dependent yes cut it out

12:21

of your out of your

12:23

like just don't drink and

12:25

do all the emotional support

12:28

and physical support and accountability

12:30

and limiting beliefs, whatever it

12:32

is, have it change to

12:34

get away from alcohol. But food

12:36

is very different and yet we

12:39

try to use the same approach. A

12:41

million percent and that is

12:44

consistently a place I see people tripping

12:46

themselves up is they try to take

12:48

this abstinence type of approach with food

12:50

and granted we can't like fully abstain

12:52

from food in the sense of not

12:54

eating because to your point we have

12:57

to eat stay alive we don't have

12:59

to have alcohol to stay alive and

13:01

so then there is a decision process

13:03

of like what food is allowed and

13:05

not allowed if that's that's the way

13:07

you're thinking and so for most people

13:09

then they're cutting out these entire categories

13:12

of food and they're probably also trying

13:14

to slash their calories at the time.

13:16

And this is a fundamental

13:18

reason why dieting itself does

13:20

not work as a long-term

13:23

solution for the vast majority

13:25

of people because you're fighting

13:27

against your body's biology

13:30

and eventually your body

13:32

is going to win. Yeah, because

13:34

it's so hard to

13:36

consistently under eat when you're

13:38

hungry for a vast, for a

13:40

long period of time. So talk to

13:42

me about, I mean, about I mean, We'll

13:45

get into it, but if anyone

13:47

is trying to stop drinking, please,

13:50

please, please don't go on a diet. Don't

13:52

go on a health kick for all

13:54

of the reasons, but especially because hunger

13:56

is a huge trigger to drink. And

13:58

you are going to create. sugar even

14:00

if before I stop drinking I

14:02

was like I do not have

14:05

a sweet tooth at all yet

14:07

I was drinking a bottle of

14:09

red wine a night which has

14:11

a ton of sugar so and

14:13

I was getting that like dopamine

14:15

hit from alcohol which you still

14:17

get in a lower amount from

14:20

sugar is so please just get

14:22

away from drinking first and you

14:24

can eat the brownies and the

14:26

cookies or the milkshake or whatever

14:28

because your body is already going

14:30

through this huge change. And once

14:33

you move away from that, talk

14:35

to me about what you're like,

14:37

how do you teach women to

14:39

rebuild trust with their body and

14:41

eat intuitively and not diet and

14:43

actually get the nutrition they need.

14:45

I mean, it's so huge. It's

14:48

complicated, right? And it's a lot

14:50

of both learning and un learning.

14:52

And To me it starts with

14:54

some awareness, it's very hard to

14:56

convince someone who still thinks that

14:58

dieting is the right way to

15:00

go, that that's not ultimately going

15:03

to help them. And so for

15:05

a lot of people, they kind

15:07

of have to hit a rock

15:09

bottom of sorts with with dieting

15:11

to be ready to go, okay,

15:13

I need to look at my

15:15

relationship with food and to approach

15:18

this differently. So I do in

15:20

the beginning a lot of education

15:22

around why dieting doesn't work and

15:24

to help people see like it's

15:26

not that you don't have enough

15:28

willpower or that you just didn't

15:31

try hard enough. It's not a

15:33

you thing. It's a dieting thing.

15:35

It doesn't work for almost anybody

15:37

in the long run. The tricky

15:39

thing is share that. Can you

15:41

share that education about why diets

15:43

don't work and what you communicate

15:46

with people? Sure. Yeah. So essentially.

15:48

your body can't tell the difference.

15:50

If your diet, okay, let me

15:52

back up. Dieting, like the goal

15:54

of it, is usually to lose

15:56

weight. And so basically we're trying

15:58

to figure out. how do I cut calories

16:01

in order to lose weight? How do I

16:03

create a calorie deficit? And then there's all

16:05

sorts of ideas of how to do that.

16:07

You know, do you go low carb? Do

16:09

you just count calories or points or whatever?

16:12

At the end of the day, your body

16:14

can't tell the difference between you're not

16:16

eating enough calories because you're on a

16:19

diet and you're doing this on purpose

16:21

versus what if there's not enough food

16:23

available? And your body's most basic primitive

16:26

function is to keep you alive because

16:28

if it does not accomplish that, then

16:30

game over. So when your body perceives

16:33

this threat to your survival, what it

16:35

will do is it will lower your

16:37

metabolic rate, meaning that it will literally

16:40

burn fewer calories. to compensate for the

16:42

fact that you're not eating enough and

16:44

Then what happens is your total conscious

16:46

time increases, which is the amount of

16:48

thoughts you're having about foods. You're going

16:50

to start to think about food more

16:52

because your body's trying to get you

16:54

to go eat some food. And when

16:56

you do eat food, you're probably going

16:58

to seek out things that are very

17:00

quick energy, which would be high carbohydrate

17:02

foods, things that are more calorie dense.

17:04

You're not going to be craving broccoli

17:06

in that instance. You're going to want

17:08

the chips and the cookies and the

17:10

pizza and the burgers and stuff. And

17:12

then when you do give in and eat

17:14

it, it's kind of like you're, you were

17:17

underwater holding your breath and then you come

17:19

up to the surface and you gasp for

17:21

air, you just like inhale it all. And

17:24

your body's like, oh good, now we have

17:26

energy and maybe we'll save some of that

17:28

for later. So we start to see the

17:30

weight coming back on that you might have

17:33

lost initially with the diet. And for people

17:35

who go on diets, most people do lose

17:37

weight in the beginning and then between years

17:40

two and five. About 95% of people

17:42

will have regained the weight and

17:44

for two-thirds of those people they'll

17:46

gain more than they lost in

17:48

the first place and when you

17:50

do that yo-yoing up and down

17:52

enough times we call it weight

17:54

cycling it causes metabolic damage to

17:56

your body like it's bad for

17:58

your health weight cycling correlates with heart

18:00

disease, with early death, with muscle loss,

18:03

all sorts of things. It gives you

18:05

insulin resistance, which causes blood sugar issues.

18:07

It's not healthy for you. But we're

18:09

told over and over again that, well,

18:11

you got to lose weight to be

18:13

healthy. Yet the way that we're going

18:16

about doing it is quite literally unhealthy.

18:18

So it goes against your body survival

18:20

instincts in so many ways. And then

18:22

the more you damage your metabolism and

18:24

jack with all of those things, It

18:27

makes it harder to honor your health

18:29

and have a peaceful relationship with food

18:31

and you're most likely to gain weight

18:33

and then you're frustrated and you do

18:35

it all over again. Yeah, that's really

18:37

interesting. I did an episode with with

18:40

one of my sober besties who actually

18:42

is an anti diet weight cycling type

18:44

coach, you know, like this the same

18:46

thing that you're talking about. And I

18:48

was telling her you know, oh, but

18:50

I've lost like 30 or 40 pounds

18:53

at various times in my life. So

18:55

I just, you know, I did it

18:57

before my wedding and I did it,

18:59

you know, to some extent when I

19:01

was 16 and I did it, you

19:03

know, after I had my son and

19:06

she's like, so I was like, I've

19:08

lost this weight, that is my ideal

19:10

weight. And she was like, no, you've

19:12

weight cycled like X amount of times.

19:14

And if it had worked, you would

19:16

still be that weight, you would still

19:19

be that weight. I still want to

19:21

beat the low weight I thought was

19:23

perfect for me when I was 16

19:25

or when I got married at 27.

19:27

And I'm 49, like, that is insane.

19:29

I've had two children, I'm 49. Like,

19:32

the idea that I would be the

19:34

same weight that I was as a

19:36

teenager is crazy, but we're like, I'm

19:38

the same height, so this should work.

19:40

Right, yeah, no, and I hear this

19:43

all the time from people when I

19:45

ask them like, what do you think

19:47

you should wait or what do you

19:49

want away? And they'll tell me like

19:51

their teenage weight. I'm like, you were

19:53

technically still a child. You aren't even

19:56

adult yet. Of course you don't. I

19:58

looked at my son once. And this

20:00

was a couple years ago, he's 16

20:02

now, maybe he was 13. And he

20:04

was like, 5, 10, and like 120

20:06

pounds or something. And I was

20:09

like looking at him because he's

20:11

trying to gain weight, like, because

20:13

he plays sports. And I was

20:15

like, thought to myself, oh my

20:17

God, any woman would kill to

20:20

have your body. Like, and then

20:22

I was like, how fucked up

20:24

is that? We want the body

20:26

of basically a prepubesim boy. And

20:28

we've been taught that's what

20:30

we should want. You know what

20:33

I mean? That's so crazy.

20:35

And if we back up

20:37

and I mean, you could

20:39

get real philosophical, like, why

20:41

do we want that? Why

20:43

does that seem desirable to?

20:45

I mean, it's just so

20:47

messed up because it's like the

20:49

end of the day, it's like

20:52

a hanger. And yet

20:54

we've somehow internalized that to

20:56

be. what we were supposed to

20:58

be. Yeah, and most of that, what

21:00

we sort of see as the

21:03

ideal and with the models

21:05

and clothing and all of

21:07

that, I mean, it's not

21:09

even biologically possible for most

21:11

people without using some pretty

21:13

scary behaviors or being a

21:15

dangerously low body weight or

21:17

low body fat, like it's

21:20

not healthy. Yeah. So to

21:22

some extent we need to

21:24

reframe what a quote unquote,

21:26

normal, healthy body is

21:28

for a human being. Of

21:30

course, everybody, like we've been told

21:33

that the BMI is the metric

21:35

of that, of like, oh, well,

21:37

tell me about that, because I've

21:40

heard that too, right? And doctors

21:42

use that. They're like, you know,

21:44

the BMI, like people will define

21:47

themselves, well, I'm overweight, as if

21:49

it's their identity, I'm obese by

21:52

the BMI. And the problem is

21:54

the BMI actually doesn't do a

21:56

very good job of measuring an

21:59

individual person. health. Like if we

22:01

use it to look at very large

22:03

population statistics, it can give us a

22:05

rough idea of things, but for you

22:07

to take that BMI number and apply

22:10

it to your health and to declare

22:12

that you're healthy or unhealthy based on

22:14

it is not very accurate. And a

22:16

lot of people don't even realize that

22:18

the BMI itself was invented back in

22:21

the 1800s by some dude who was

22:23

a mathematician and an astronomer. He didn't

22:25

have any health background and even he

22:27

himself said this should not be used.

22:30

for individual humans. And the data

22:32

that it was built off of

22:34

was from white European men. And

22:36

actually what he was trying to

22:38

do was to define the quote

22:40

unquote like ideal body, like it

22:42

was kind of a eugenics, very

22:44

racist type of thing. So I

22:46

mean, it's just, it's built on

22:48

very problematic ways of thinking

22:51

and we have many more accurate

22:53

ways to measure health here in.

22:55

2025 than we did in the

22:57

1800s. And so, you know, when

22:59

we look at health, we want

23:01

to ask ourselves, well, like, are

23:03

your organs functioning properly? And how would

23:06

you know if they are? Well, I

23:08

mean, blood work is a good way

23:10

of assessing that. Your doctor can do

23:12

a physical if needed. There can be

23:15

imaging, like we can really get in

23:17

there and figure out, is your body

23:19

actually healthy? And the number on the

23:22

scale and the BMI really doesn't tell

23:24

us. that we need to have more

23:26

data to be able to make those

23:29

determinations when it comes to health. Yeah,

23:31

yeah, and it's complicated, right?

23:33

Because I also hear from

23:35

people or doctors or whatever in terms

23:37

of like the amount of fat that

23:39

surrounds your organs aren't you know like

23:41

that's bad for you too. A lot

23:43

in my community because that's kind of

23:45

the new thing is like oh yes

23:48

everybody agrees BMI is junk but now

23:50

we're replacing that with all this like

23:52

waste or comforts and ratios and stuff

23:54

and right thing is even if it's

23:56

true like there is data that says

23:58

that you know being at above us

24:00

certain weight or having a certain waste

24:02

to hip ratio does correlate with

24:04

certain health risks or health conditions.

24:06

Like that's true. We're not saying

24:08

like, oh, it doesn't matter at

24:10

all. The problem is, well, what

24:12

are you going to do about

24:14

it? So that even if that's

24:17

true, it still doesn't make dieting

24:19

an effective or healthy salute. It's

24:21

kind of like, you know, male

24:23

baldness also corresponds or correlates with

24:25

heart disease. That doesn't mean that

24:27

we give all the men their

24:29

heart disease goes away. So I'm

24:31

just curious. Yeah, for real. Yep,

24:33

it does. I like that men

24:35

have something that they could be,

24:37

I mean, I'm a terrible person,

24:39

but I'm like, they got they

24:41

have something that they can be

24:43

judged on from like just looking

24:45

at them and, but that's, you

24:47

know, I feel bad. I have

24:49

a husband, yada yada, but you

24:51

know, women get judged on fucking

24:54

everything, like on everything, especially appearance

24:56

wise. Yeah. That's what I mean.

24:58

Yeah. I wanted to talk to

25:00

you about this because the best

25:02

analogy I've ever heard the one

25:04

that finally sort of broke through.

25:06

and made sense to me and

25:08

I shared it with my daughter

25:10

who at the time was eight

25:12

and we had a lot of

25:14

discussions around it like it helped

25:16

me it's not I still have

25:18

questions about what the solution is

25:20

and I want to talk to

25:22

you about that like how the

25:24

hell do you regain trust with

25:26

your body or not overeat to

25:29

the point where you're sick which

25:31

I have done and all that

25:33

stuff but I heard somewhere someone

25:35

describe it as like somehow the

25:37

world has decided marketing sales whatever

25:39

that the ideal dog body type

25:41

is a pomeranian and that everyone

25:43

should be a pomeranian. And like

25:45

all the internet, Instagram, fitness models

25:47

you see are pomeranians and this

25:49

is the dog breed. And so

25:51

all the other dogs, the Golden

25:53

Retrievers and the Great Danes and

25:55

the like corgis or whatever, which

25:57

by the way, I think corgis

25:59

are the cutest, are spent their

26:01

entire lives starving themselves and beating

26:03

themselves up because they're not a

26:06

Pomeranian. And you're like, hey Golden

26:08

Retriever, a lot of people love

26:10

Golden Retrivers, you are never going

26:12

to be a fucking Pomeranian. You

26:14

are going to be a starving,

26:17

miserable Golden Retriever when you could just

26:19

kind of embrace that. you're a

26:21

golden retriever and people love

26:23

you and you're gorgeous and

26:25

you know, whatever, whatever that

26:27

is. Did that make sense?

26:29

Yeah, it does. There's actually,

26:31

I know exactly where that

26:33

comes from. There's a video.

26:35

Where does that come from? It's

26:37

called poodle science and it's

26:40

like, yeah, yeah. I need to look it up.

26:42

Yeah, and, and you know, to kind of

26:44

merge that into, okay, so how do

26:46

we address our health and trust

26:48

ourselves in all of that with

26:51

the dog example. Like the dogs,

26:53

if they stop, you know, starving

26:55

themselves and trying to become something

26:57

they're not, then they can be

27:00

themselves and live a wonderful life

27:02

and take care of their bodies

27:04

and not have to just torture

27:06

themselves trying to conform to some

27:09

other standard that is just. not

27:11

genetically how they're meant to be.

27:13

And we as humans are very

27:15

much the same. We're not all

27:17

meant to be the exact same size

27:20

and shape. And we get that when

27:22

it comes to height, but we're led

27:24

to believe that weight is something that

27:26

we all can and should be controlling,

27:28

despite the fact that our weight is

27:30

highly genetic as well. When I was

27:33

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well and feel great. Yeah,

28:43

yeah. Well, so tell me

28:45

about non-diot strategies

28:48

to fuel your body without,

28:50

you know, having restrictive

28:53

eating or overeating, emotional

28:55

eating, all that

28:58

kind of stuff. Yeah, so okay,

29:00

so a little bit ago we were talking

29:02

about how like I kind of start with

29:04

that education of, okay, here's why dieting doesn't

29:06

work what it's doing to you. So getting

29:09

the person on board with, okay, I get

29:11

why that's bad idea. And so then the

29:13

question becomes, okay, now what do I do?

29:15

So. Where I like to start, I'm steering

29:18

people towards intuitive eating. And for

29:20

people who aren't familiar, it is

29:22

a framework that was developed by

29:24

two dieticians, and they wrote a

29:27

book about it. It's been updated

29:29

several times. It's backed by over

29:31

200 research studies. It's considered to

29:33

be an evidence-based approach to our

29:36

eating and to our health. And

29:38

so that's what I'm referring to.

29:40

So read the book, if you

29:42

haven't. The thing is though, if I just tell

29:44

someone, go eat intuitively. Well, first of all, they're

29:46

probably just going to have a free for all

29:49

with food. Or they're going to be like, I

29:51

don't know how. I don't even know what that

29:53

means anymore because I don't know how to listen

29:55

to my body. I don't know what normal eating

29:57

looks like. I don't know what I should put

29:59

my... mouth. I don't even know what

30:02

I like anymore. So I start

30:04

people off with some structure that

30:06

functions as a stepping stone to

30:08

help them reconnect with their body

30:10

and to build that trust and

30:12

that intuition over time. So the

30:14

structure that I start with is

30:16

pretty simple. It's eat breakfast within

30:18

about an hour of waking up.

30:20

Like there's nothing magical about the

30:22

one hour mark, but like let's

30:24

get that going. Let's get some

30:26

fuel in your system and get

30:28

your metabolism going and let your body

30:31

know that there is nourishment on board

30:33

and available. And then from there, let's

30:35

try not to go any longer than

30:37

about three or four hours throughout the

30:39

day without eating something. And so if

30:41

you think about your typical daily eating

30:44

schedule and where your meals fit in,

30:46

you can kind of anchor the meals

30:48

in and then figure out where do

30:50

you need snacks to fill in those

30:52

gaps for when the meals are longer

30:55

than four hours apart. And so now

30:57

we've got with that a nice simple

30:59

like eating schedule. And you might

31:01

even have to set alarms or reminders

31:03

so that you can follow that. Because

31:05

what will happen is, as your body

31:08

gets to know what to expect when

31:10

food is coming, your appetite signals will

31:12

sync up with that because our appetite

31:14

technically is part of our circadian rhythm.

31:16

And so your body will start to

31:18

know, oh, hey, it's lunchtime or hey,

31:20

we're ready for a snack. So now

31:23

we've got that hunger becoming more reliable

31:25

and predictable. And your digestive system will

31:27

know what to expect. So your body

31:29

will be... ready with those digestive enzymes

31:31

and hormones and all the stuff

31:33

that goes into digestion. And then

31:35

what I teach is when you

31:38

are eating, if we can think

31:40

about combining carbohydrate, protein, and

31:42

fat. Those are your three

31:44

macronutrients that are giving your body

31:46

actual fuel and energy through calories.

31:49

That's where calories come from. And

31:51

when we combine all three of

31:53

those, it's going to give us

31:55

a good level of satisfaction. It's

31:58

a good level of satisfaction. going

32:00

to keep our blood sugar balanced

32:02

and it allows us to mix

32:04

and match and pair foods together

32:06

in a way that's satisfying and

32:08

not depriving because it's the deprivation

32:10

that will then drive the intense

32:12

cravings and compulsions and the binging

32:14

and all that stuff. Yeah and

32:16

I mean that makes a lot

32:18

of sense. I always when I'm

32:20

talking to women when they're stopping

32:23

drinking, especially I suggest setting an

32:25

alarm for 3.30 or 4 p.m.

32:27

to eat something. Yes, I heard

32:29

you say that and I was

32:31

just like, yes, exactly. Yeah, because

32:33

otherwise you're like driving home or

32:35

at the end of the day

32:37

when you normally drink and you're

32:39

starving and you're trying to get

32:41

dinner ready and you're like nibbling

32:43

on things and then you're not

32:45

hungry anymore by the time dinner

32:47

is on the table. Yeah, yeah.

32:49

So what I mean, I always

32:51

struggle with. Yes, carb protein fat,

32:53

snack, like what is that? Do

32:55

you have any ideas of what

32:58

those snacks could be? Could you

33:00

tell us? Snacks, I love snacks.

33:02

So here's the really cool thing.

33:04

All food on the whole entire

33:06

planet breaks down into some version

33:08

of carbohydrate, protein, and fat. The

33:10

only sort of exception to that

33:12

is non-starchy vegetables, like those are

33:14

mostly just fiber and vitamins and

33:16

water, which are great, but the

33:18

reason they don't have many calories

33:20

in them is because they don't

33:22

have much carb protein or fat.

33:24

But all the other foods that

33:26

are giving us calories have macronutrients

33:28

in them. And when we can

33:30

think about what the food is

33:32

breaking down into, then it starts

33:35

to strip away some of the

33:37

judgment and the guilt about food.

33:39

And we can think about how

33:41

to pair foods together in a

33:43

way that does support our health.

33:45

So let's say, what I tell

33:47

people for snack in particular is

33:49

to think carb protein, because if

33:51

you have carb protein, there probably

33:53

will be some fat in there

33:55

and you'll be good to go.

33:57

So a carb protein could be

33:59

crackers for carbohydrate. and then some

34:01

cheese for some protein and that

34:03

has some fat in it as

34:05

well. Or you could do pretzels

34:07

with peanut butter or yogurt and

34:10

fruit or a banana and some

34:12

almonds. And when you just train

34:14

your brain to think of food

34:16

in terms of what it's breaking

34:18

down into you start to see,

34:20

oh, okay, I get how all

34:22

foods can fit into a balanced

34:24

pattern of eating. That

34:27

makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

34:29

And part of me when, you

34:31

know, whenever you're doing like the

34:33

quote unquote health kick or when

34:35

I used to do them, it's

34:38

like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what to

34:40

do. Trust me, I'm 40, whatever.

34:42

Like I've spent my entire life

34:45

being taught what I should eat,

34:47

even though, like the rules keep

34:49

changing, right? Like, it's always a

34:52

different thing. But it's like. doing

34:54

it for any sustained period of time

34:56

that's so difficult and that's what you're

34:58

talking about in terms of like trying

35:00

to take entire categories of food off

35:02

the table or trying to have a

35:04

calorie deficit you know you're like yeah

35:06

yeah I know what I should eat

35:08

but somehow in the back of your

35:10

mind you're like but I better eat

35:12

way less I'll eat the right things

35:14

but way less and then you give

35:16

up and throw it out the window.

35:18

Absolutely. And essentially what

35:20

you're describing is the difference

35:22

between like working against your

35:25

body by cutting out food

35:27

groups or undercutting your calories

35:29

versus what we're trying to

35:31

do with my clients is

35:33

work with your body. So

35:35

instead of depriving, we're providing

35:37

your body with what I

35:39

need. Okay. Yeah, providing your body

35:42

with what you need. So what

35:44

are usually the biggest pushback?

35:46

that you hear from your

35:48

clients when you take them

35:51

down the path of intuitive

35:53

eating? What are the

35:55

biggest blockers? Probably

35:58

two things. The first is...

36:00

idea that there's no such thing as

36:02

a good food and a bad food. People

36:04

are like, that's insane. You can't tell me

36:06

that like Cheetos are healthier than carrots. I

36:08

don't know why I think you're rich foods.

36:11

And it's, so the way I address that

36:13

is, there truly is no food that is

36:15

inherently 100% of the time healthy or unhealthy.

36:17

Context matters matters. and the situation different things

36:20

call for different types of food. So if

36:22

we have like, let's say you walk into

36:24

your kitchen and you see all your appliances,

36:26

you've got your fridge and your microwave, your

36:29

stove, your dishwasher, you're not judging like, oh,

36:31

one of those is like better than the

36:33

other and oh, that one's bad and this

36:35

one's good. We can try to start channeling

36:38

the same energy towards food that different foods

36:40

have different nutrients. and different tastes and textures,

36:42

and that's a good thing, not a bad

36:44

thing. Like we have to have a variety

36:47

of nutrients for our body to function properly.

36:49

And at the end of the day, the

36:51

food you're eating. So when we put food

36:53

in our mouth and it goes to our

36:56

esophagus and then into our stomach and it's

36:58

breaking down, and it's in your intestines where

37:00

it's getting absorbed into your body. By the

37:02

time it's getting absorbed, it no longer resembles

37:05

the cheeto that you ate, it has been

37:07

broken down into molecules of carbohydrate and fat.

37:09

And your body doesn't know or care whether

37:11

that carb and fat came from a Cheeto

37:14

or some avocado toast. It's still carbon fat

37:16

and it's still going to be used as

37:18

carbon fat. And am I suggesting you should

37:20

just eat Cheetos all day every day? No,

37:23

of course not. But I also wouldn't tell

37:25

people to subsist on blueberries or kale all

37:27

day every day because that would also not

37:29

give them what they need and it would

37:32

set them up to. overeat on other things.

37:34

And so when we can neutralize a lot

37:36

of these judgments about food and to realize

37:38

that there is a time a

37:41

place for all types

37:43

of food and that

37:45

as long as you're

37:47

eating a wide variety

37:50

of food, you're going

37:52

to be fine. It's

37:54

when you have this

37:56

jacked up relationship with

37:59

food and all these

38:01

rules that are impossible

38:03

to follow that it

38:05

creates the chaos with

38:08

food that's actually unhealthy

38:10

for you. But when

38:12

you have food neutrality,

38:14

the research shows that

38:17

you naturally will eat

38:19

more fruits and vegetables.

38:21

You'll eat at home

38:23

more and you'll get

38:26

the variety and the

38:28

nutrition you need in a

38:30

way that's not detrimental to your

38:32

health. So that's the first one is

38:34

like, you can't tell me

38:36

there's no such thing as good food,

38:38

bad food. The second thing I bump

38:41

up against a lot is just the

38:43

weight and health thing. People are like,

38:45

my doctor said I had to lose

38:47

weight in order to be healthy or

38:49

I have to lose weight to get

38:51

my diabetes under control or in order

38:53

to have the need replacement surgery that

38:55

I need. And I think where people

38:57

kind of misunderstand what we're saying in

38:59

the field of intuitive eating, we're

39:02

not saying that every single

39:04

body is healthy at every

39:06

single size or every single

39:08

weight. What we're saying

39:10

is that you can address your

39:12

health regardless of where your

39:14

weight is at and that there

39:16

are meaningful things you can

39:19

do to improve your health that

39:21

aren't about chasing a lower number

39:23

on the scale and dieting because we

39:25

know that in the grand scheme

39:27

of things, that's not going to produce

39:29

the outcome you want. Dieting is

39:31

the number one procedure of weight gain,

39:33

not weight loss. And so if

39:35

we say, okay, let's take that out

39:37

of the equation for a minute,

39:39

what else could we do to help

39:41

someone with our diabetes example with

39:43

their blood sugar? There's a million things

39:45

we can do to help support

39:48

better blood sugar, both from a nutrition

39:50

standpoint, physical activity, sleep, medication, stress

39:52

management, a million things.

39:54

Like the example with the

39:56

knee surgery, a person

39:58

could do physical therapy to...

40:00

strengthen the joints around their knees that

40:02

can help improve the pain dramatically.

40:04

There are different types of injections

40:06

for the knees. There are surgeons

40:08

who will operate without requiring a

40:10

certain BMI. There's all sorts of

40:13

different things. And I get that

40:15

all of those solutions are imperfect.

40:17

But if we come back to,

40:19

like, just because theoretically being at

40:21

a lower weight might make you

40:23

healthier, how are you going to

40:25

do that? because we don't have

40:27

a permanent way to accomplish that.

40:29

It's just like, let's say that

40:31

you're living paycheck to paycheck and

40:33

basically you're broke and so you're

40:35

stressed about money all the time,

40:37

winning the lottery, would it make

40:39

your life better? Yeah, it would.

40:41

It doesn't increase your odds of

40:43

winning the lottery, though. And it's

40:45

kind of the same thing with

40:47

weight. Even if it makes a

40:49

lot of sense to me. Yeah.

40:51

When you said it that way,

40:53

winning the lottery. would be fantastic.

40:55

But yeah, it doesn't increase your

40:57

odds of being able to do

41:00

it. But we want to hold

41:02

on and be like, no, even

41:04

though, and I've seen stats, you

41:06

know them better than me, I've

41:08

read like 97% of diets fail

41:10

over X amount of time. And

41:12

I've also heard that over like

41:14

two years, the average weight watchers

41:16

customer participant loses five pounds. Like

41:18

that's, I don't know if that's

41:20

the right number, but it was

41:22

something that I was like. Nobody

41:24

fucking joins Weight Watchers and does

41:26

it for two years for the

41:28

goal of five pounds being the

41:30

amount of weight loss. But it

41:32

is, you can see where people

41:34

do blame themselves though, like think

41:36

about how many people you know

41:38

who have done Weight Watchers 10

41:40

times. Like they'll keep going. I

41:42

did Weight Watchers. That's how I

41:44

lost weight before my wedding. Like

41:47

I was 26. I was going

41:49

and I did lose weight. But

41:51

then I gained it back. But

41:53

yeah, it's that we blame ourselves

41:55

instead of going, oh, maybe their

41:57

program or their product isn't actually

41:59

very effective. And you know, and

42:01

now wait watchers his turn. to

42:03

the medical objection. Which everybody's like,

42:05

oh, so your program doesn't work

42:07

and now we have to add

42:09

medications on, huh? Forty years later,

42:11

yeah. I'm not saying weight doesn't

42:13

matter or that it has nothing

42:16

to do with health because it

42:18

does. I'm just saying dieting

42:20

is not the solution that we

42:22

hope it would be. and that

42:24

there are other ways that a

42:26

million percent we can absolutely address

42:28

and improve your health. There are

42:30

so many other ways to do

42:32

that if we get you out of

42:34

the tunnel vision of dieting. Okay, so

42:37

the answer is dieting is not

42:39

a viable solution. So what can we

42:41

do instead or the way we've been

42:43

taught to diet over the years, etc?

42:45

Basically, it's to me, it's first and

42:47

foremost about like, well, let's stop doing

42:49

the harmful things. So let's get off

42:51

the dieting roller coaster ride. No, you

42:53

don't need to buy any more tickets

42:56

to that right. And let's heal your

42:58

metabolism. because like I mentioned like

43:00

dieting messes up your metabolism in

43:02

so many ways and by that

43:04

I mean like the way your

43:06

body's burning calories I mean some

43:09

of like the different hormones in

43:11

your body that relate to appetite

43:13

sometimes it even messes with like

43:15

female hormones like sex hormones estrogens

43:18

stuff like that and digestive hormones

43:20

and so let's correct all of

43:22

that let's get your blood sugar

43:24

where it needs to be and

43:26

then let's see where does your body

43:28

want to be as far as your

43:31

weight goes. Another thing is a

43:33

lot of times when people are

43:35

weight cycling, what happens is you

43:38

will inevitably lose some degree

43:40

of muscle when you're losing weight

43:42

on whatever diet you're doing. But

43:44

when we regain it, we regain

43:46

it almost all as body fat.

43:48

And so you do it at

43:50

any time. and you've jacked with your

43:52

body composition. So now your muscle and

43:55

body fat ratio is worse than it

43:57

was before. And this was what I

43:59

saw. My very first job at a

44:01

college, I was doing breast cancer research.

44:03

I was a research dietitian and we

44:05

were doing these weight loss studies with

44:08

people and we would track their body

44:10

composition as part of it. And when

44:12

it was all said and done, they

44:14

lost weight on our diet. When they

44:16

quit doing it, they regained it and

44:18

their body composition was worse. And... I

44:20

want to be careful to couch this,

44:22

that it's not about, oh, you have

44:25

more body fat and that's like negative

44:27

because of fat phobia. I'm just talking

44:29

about this from like a metabolic standpoint,

44:31

that your muscle is metabolically active in

44:33

the sense that your muscle burns calories

44:35

while we're just sitting here. So less

44:37

muscle means lower metabolic rate, lower calorie

44:39

burn. Your muscle also helps with your

44:41

blood sugar because your muscle cells are

44:44

sensitive to insulin and can help. keep

44:46

your blood sugar in check. And so

44:48

when you've got that higher ratio that's

44:50

out of whack with your muscle to

44:52

your body fat, it can create more

44:54

insulin resistance, which can actually drive up

44:56

your appetite. It drives up your blood

44:58

sugar. Then we start to see pre-diabetes

45:01

and diabetes and fatty liver and all

45:03

sorts of other problems. So what we

45:05

want to do is like, fix all

45:07

of this the best that we can.

45:09

And sometimes that does require medication in

45:11

conjunction with eating in a more balanced

45:13

way and all of that and physical

45:15

activity. And it's from there that we

45:18

can say, okay, where does your weight

45:20

want to be at this phase of

45:22

your life? Because your weight right now,

45:24

like you said, you know, like the

45:26

weight of a 49 year old woman

45:28

is probably not what it was when

45:30

she was 22 and just getting out

45:32

of college. And that's okay. It doesn't

45:34

mean there's wrong with you. Yeah. So

45:37

you gave us some. your recommendations of

45:39

what would help, meaning, you know, eating

45:41

within an hour of waking up, not

45:43

going more than three hours. between

45:45

meals, making sure

45:47

that there is some

45:49

combination of carb,

45:51

protein, fat, staying away

45:54

from dieting or

45:56

trying to do a

45:58

calorie deficit because

46:00

that just doesn't work.

46:02

What else am

46:04

I missing in terms

46:06

of how we

46:08

can rebuild trust with

46:11

our body? What

46:13

about the body image

46:15

stuff that messes

46:17

us I was just

46:19

thinking that, yeah.

46:21

I mean, I think

46:23

with the body

46:25

image, the first

46:28

thing is stop actively hating

46:30

on your body. So when

46:32

you're in that space and

46:34

you're thinking all these awful

46:36

things about your body, try

46:38

to notice that and say,

46:40

okay, that's not helping me.

46:42

We don't make positive changes

46:44

or sustainable changes when we're

46:46

in shame. So can we at

46:48

least notice that really awful self -talk

46:50

and just say, okay, stop. And

46:54

for a lot of people, they do need

46:56

to take a break from the scale, especially

46:58

at this process. Like you don't need to

47:00

be getting on the scale every single

47:02

day, certainly not multiple times a day. And

47:04

even once a week, I think, I

47:07

mean, we wanna

47:09

be careful with how much power does that

47:11

scale have over your mood and your self -esteem

47:13

and what you will and won't let yourself

47:15

eat. So for some people, they just need

47:17

to take a break from that for a

47:19

while and let go of the number. And

47:24

even looking in the mirror, thinking

47:26

about how are you talking to yourself?

47:28

And then with your clothing, are you

47:30

wearing clothes that fit your body right

47:32

now or are you trying to squeeze

47:34

into things that are too tight and

47:37

that all day long remind you of

47:39

how terrible you feel about yourself? Yeah.

47:41

Because you deserve to have clothing that

47:43

fits your here and now body, even

47:45

if you don't particularly like your here

47:47

and now body. And

47:49

that in and of itself can be

47:52

such a game changer because it's just a

47:54

genuine act of kindness and respect

47:56

towards yourself to wear clothes that

47:58

fit. Yeah. And you

48:00

know, it can be hard to have

48:02

to get bigger clothes and I'm

48:04

not suggesting you have to go

48:06

spend thousands of dollars on a

48:09

new wardrobe like you may have

48:11

to do it in a really

48:13

budget friendly way but you deserve clothes

48:15

that fit. Yeah, one thing that

48:17

I have this quote on my

48:19

like vision board pushpin board that's

48:21

by my office and it actually

48:23

really helped me because when I,

48:25

you know, when I look back.

48:27

at pictures of me at 30

48:29

or 33 or you know I

48:31

was so mean to myself and

48:33

now I look back and I'm

48:35

like why did I spend all

48:37

that energy and time being such

48:39

an asshole to myself thinking I

48:41

look terrible because I look back

48:43

and I was like I was fine.

48:46

I was fine. And even like when

48:48

I look at pictures of me compared

48:50

to in the same image as my

48:52

friends where I thought that they were

48:54

like so much skinnier and so much

48:56

more gorgeous to me, I look back

48:58

and I'm like, yeah, we actually were

49:01

pretty similar. I just had it in

49:03

my mind that they were somehow like

49:05

exponentially different than I was.

49:08

So I have this quote up

49:10

that says, 20 years from now,

49:12

you'd give anything to be exactly

49:14

this age, exactly this healthy. And

49:16

back in that, this exact moment,

49:19

take a second to enjoy it

49:21

now. And that's by Rich Webster.

49:23

And I just, you know, when

49:25

I think of, you know, last

49:27

summer I went to Provence with.

49:29

three other sober girlfriends, we

49:32

had the best time. And

49:34

I'm like, okay, I could

49:36

spend this two weeks thinking

49:39

that I, you know, wish

49:41

I looked differently or could

49:43

realize that at 68, I

49:45

would give anything to be

49:48

this exact age, exactly this

49:50

healthy, looking exactly as I

49:52

do now. And in this

49:55

moment, it's such a waste. Yeah.

49:57

Yeah. And that Oh, it kind of gives

49:59

me chills. actually when you say that,

50:01

because it's such a powerful reminder

50:03

to appreciate what we have now.

50:05

And I think a lot of

50:07

us look back on past versions

50:09

of ourselves when we can remember

50:11

thinking how terrible we looked and

50:13

you look at it now and

50:16

like, well, what I wouldn't give

50:18

to be that size now or

50:20

that much younger. And probably like

50:22

you said in 20 years, we're

50:24

going to think the same thing.

50:26

And so can we look upon

50:28

ourselves with softer eyes and more

50:30

accepting eyes? And to also recognize

50:32

that what that also tells us

50:34

is that magically being at a

50:36

certain number on the scale isn't

50:38

just poof going to make your

50:40

life sunshine and rainbows and you're

50:42

going to feel like a million

50:44

bucks because when you were at

50:46

that weight you didn't feel like

50:48

a million bucks and so it's

50:50

not just a function of being

50:52

that weight. And that's hard to

50:54

reckon with because I think we

50:56

like that that's the fantasy we've

50:58

been sold for forever. Yeah, and

51:00

what's interesting is I mean I

51:03

always talk to women when they're

51:05

stopping drinking and I'm like Forget

51:07

about the scale right now forget

51:09

about trying to not eat sugar

51:11

try to eat less or doing

51:13

the math on I drank a

51:15

bottle of wine a night That's

51:17

a thousand calories. I should be

51:19

losing like the math But I

51:21

was like just take a selfie

51:23

of yourself the day you stop

51:25

drinking and then do it weakly

51:27

as you go along. And even

51:29

if you don't lose a single

51:31

pound, you will look so much

51:33

better. You will notice not being

51:35

bloated in your face. You will

51:37

start to see cheekbones. Your eyes

51:39

will be brighter. Your skin will

51:41

look better. Your hair will look

51:43

better. Like you'll have less bloating

51:45

around your stomach. Like you will

51:48

be exponentially healthier simply by removing

51:50

alcohol. regardless if the scale budgets

51:52

or regardless of if you're eating

51:54

the brownies or whatever it is,

51:56

because you're no longer poisoning yourself

51:58

with this toxic substance. So just

52:00

you don't have to like also

52:02

go to that extreme of like

52:04

I'm gonna cut out alcohol and

52:06

sugar and gluten and there in

52:08

like all the things like you

52:10

don't like just cutting out the

52:12

alcohol is like a massive and

52:15

it's a big enough change emotional

52:17

change it's a coping strategy change

52:19

it's a habit change like It's

52:21

a huge change for anyone.

52:23

So allow yourself. I mean,

52:25

just the idea even of

52:27

habit stacking. Like I love

52:29

atomic habits, right? That 1%

52:32

improvement. So in the beginning,

52:34

you're just removing alcohol. That's

52:36

it. You're going to be

52:38

tired. You're going to be

52:40

irritated. You're going to be whatever.

52:42

And then once you get past

52:44

that, then the other reason I

52:47

wanted to stop drinking was I

52:49

was like, doing burpies at six

52:51

in the morning with a brutal

52:53

hangover and a bottle of wine

52:55

in my belly. It was miserable.

52:57

So I started like going to

52:59

my workouts in the morning, not

53:01

hung over. That was amazing. I

53:04

started running and actually enjoying it

53:06

for the first time because it

53:08

was like getting my anxious energy

53:10

out and I needed that physical

53:12

release. But you can't do that all

53:14

at once and you can't do that

53:16

if you are coming from a punitive

53:19

place. Totally, yeah.

53:21

And I'm so glad that that's

53:23

what you teach because I've also

53:25

seen in the sober space a

53:27

lot of kind of diety nutrition

53:29

advice of like, oh, okay,

53:31

so you're gonna stop drinking and

53:33

then you're gonna like do all

53:36

these other quote unquote healthy things.

53:38

And I love that you give

53:40

people the. permission to not have

53:42

to do that and to like

53:45

eat the damn brownie and let

53:47

yourself comfort yourself some with food

53:49

and get yourself through this really

53:51

really challenging thing and let's just

53:54

see what that does for you

53:56

you know. One the other reason is

53:58

it doesn't fucking work. Like, trying

54:00

to remove alcohol while dieting, like,

54:03

I did that so many times and

54:05

it just didn't work. I would get

54:07

to two or three weeks and break

54:09

or I'd be miserable and it was

54:12

like, is it because I'm not drinking

54:14

or is it because I'm fucking starving?

54:16

and eating nothing but lettuce. Like, you

54:19

need to separate those two. So it's,

54:21

to some extent, it's practical too. It's

54:23

like, do you want to keep doing

54:26

the absolute worst part of quitting drinking

54:28

over and over and over again, do

54:30

four days, five days, two weeks? Do

54:33

you want to do that indefinitely? Or

54:35

do you just want to throw the

54:37

book at stopping drinking? Forget about the

54:39

diet and food? get stronger, get

54:42

healthier, get further away from

54:44

cravings, and then you'll have

54:46

the clarity and energy to do

54:49

what you want to do in

54:51

life. And you can make

54:53

an informed decision, hopefully, listening

54:55

to Katie, listening to this

54:57

conversation about how to do

54:59

it in a way that

55:01

you might actually be successful.

55:04

But, you know, don't set yourself

55:06

up to fail because of

55:08

these, you know, outdated, you

55:10

know, outdated, and also really

55:12

punitive crappy thoughts about yourself

55:14

and what you quote unquote

55:16

should do. Yeah, I think that's so

55:19

well said because yeah, the in

55:21

the punitive part of it

55:23

in particular, I think sometimes

55:25

that's it's almost part of

55:27

the allure of diet is I'm

55:29

going to punish myself for

55:31

how bad I've been and for

55:33

how terrible I feel about myself

55:35

and how unworthy I am in

55:37

this body. And like I deserve

55:40

to deprive myself. And it seems

55:42

like that we talk to ourselves

55:44

that way. It really really is. And

55:46

I, you know, one of the

55:49

things I had to do and

55:51

my friend who does similar work

55:53

that you do, helped me do

55:55

this is I had to clean

55:57

up my like quote unquote aspirational

55:59

Instagram. feed and get rid of

56:01

like basically all the Pomeranians that

56:03

were in there like all these

56:05

blonde skinny smiling fitness people who

56:07

were telling me just eat this

56:09

or just do this workout or

56:11

just do XYZ and you'll be

56:13

fine and fill it with like

56:16

more realistic depictions of women's bodies.

56:18

I mean when we were growing

56:20

up it was the magazines right

56:22

and there's plenty of like actual

56:24

scientific research on this that like

56:26

the more you look at those

56:28

types of photos and they did

56:30

a lot of this with magazine

56:32

research like the worst you feel

56:34

and now it's we don't do

56:36

that with magazines we do it

56:38

with social media and it's the

56:40

unspoken message of if you eat

56:42

how I eat and exercise how

56:44

I exercise you will look like

56:46

me and that's just like we

56:48

could all do these. same thing.

56:50

We'd still look different. Oh my

56:52

God. And on like Women's Health

56:54

magazines, they do this interview. Like,

56:56

what is this person eating? And

56:58

I'm like, she's fucking 22. Like

57:00

who? And I don't know if

57:02

she ever like When you look

57:04

at what they're allegedly eating, there's

57:06

no fucking way. Like, it's hardly

57:08

any food. And a lot of

57:11

times, it's like really active people.

57:13

It's just ridiculous. The social media

57:15

thing is such an important one,

57:17

though, because it kind of becomes

57:19

subliminal messaging. If all you're ever

57:21

seeing when you're scrolling your phone

57:23

for however many hours it on

57:25

your phone, and I'm like, oh.

57:27

I like to pretend because it's

57:29

for work, right. I'm like, oh,

57:31

I have a, yeah. It's not

57:33

true. It's not true. When that's

57:35

all your brain is being exposed

57:37

to is this narrow lens of

57:39

what a woman's body should look

57:41

like, then we compare ourselves to

57:43

that, even if we intellectually understand

57:45

that's not accurate. But like what

57:47

you're saying, if we start to

57:49

fill that feed with a wider

57:51

range of body sizes and shapes

57:53

and abilities and to prove to

57:55

your brain that diversity is normal

57:57

and it exists and it's

57:59

wonderful and it's

58:01

beautiful, then we

58:03

can start to recognize that it's

58:06

not that everybody else looks

58:08

like this and I don't, because

58:10

it's not true. Yeah,

58:13

no, completely, that makes a ton

58:15

of sense. And it is ingrained

58:17

in us so early.

58:20

And one thing that's helped me,

58:22

and I'm sure a lot of

58:24

women listening to this, when you

58:26

know better, it's still hard to

58:28

implement in your own mind. But

58:30

when I looked at my daughter,

58:32

it really had me cut out

58:34

a lot of the negative behaviors,

58:36

like having her watch me weigh

58:38

myself, having her watch me say,

58:40

oh, I shouldn't really have ice

58:42

cream or whatever. Like I try,

58:45

I may still think that and

58:47

I'm working through that, but I don't

58:49

demonstrate it to her in the

58:51

way that, for example, my mom did

58:53

with me and no judgment on

58:55

my mom. Like we were all raised

58:57

in the culture that we were

58:59

raised in, her mother did it too.

59:01

And so, but I remember my

59:03

daughter was like seven or eight. I

59:05

mean, she was really young. And we used

59:07

to, I used to always put her to

59:09

bed and we'd always talk when, you know,

59:11

in our dark, her dark room, it was

59:13

sort of our time. And she said to

59:15

me once, she said, mom, my stomach doesn't

59:17

go in. Like my stomach doesn't

59:19

go in, it like goes out. And I

59:22

was like, Lila, that's

59:24

where your organs are. Like your

59:27

organs are literally right there. And

59:29

she was like, yeah, but

59:31

it's supposed to go in. And

59:33

it was just, I was

59:35

like, dude, you're seven years old.

59:37

This is crazy. It's gut

59:39

wrenching, yeah. And there's research that

59:41

shows that like kids as

59:43

young as preschool are afraid of

59:45

being fat and kids by

59:48

seven years old are dieting. And

59:50

I mean, it's bananas. And

59:52

so, I mean, you

59:54

don't want to set them up. Like,

59:56

do I want to tell Lila

59:58

that she should diet knowing 97% of

1:00:00

them fail, or which I would

1:00:02

never do, right? I'm just like,

1:00:04

your body is different. It's like,

1:00:06

oh, well, why don't you like

1:00:08

do this diet with me? I'll

1:00:10

do it with you and we're

1:00:12

going to fix that. And it's

1:00:14

like, you know, a mom trying

1:00:16

to help their child, but the

1:00:18

message is actually kind of colluding

1:00:20

with what they were thinking. Like,

1:00:22

yeah, you look at. her friends

1:00:24

and I'm like, you can see

1:00:26

the way I see with the

1:00:28

women in my life. Like, your

1:00:30

body is completely different than your

1:00:32

friend age and your friend Jay

1:00:34

is taller than I am at

1:00:36

the age of 10 or 11.

1:00:38

Like, everybody just has a different

1:00:40

body and that doesn't mean that

1:00:42

that yours is bad, but it's

1:00:44

so hard in our culture to

1:00:47

get away from it. But I

1:00:49

do think that once you know

1:00:51

better. You start to do better

1:00:53

you start to look around for

1:00:55

evidence that everything you you have

1:00:57

internalized is not in fact true

1:00:59

and Try to enjoy your life

1:01:01

as opposed to wishing it away

1:01:03

I mean I realized when My

1:01:05

son was born afterwards like and

1:01:07

I've seen this with other people

1:01:09

say this like I was literally

1:01:11

erasing myself from my family's history.

1:01:13

I was deleting I was always

1:01:15

taking pictures of my husband, my

1:01:17

son, my daughter, whatever was. You

1:01:19

weren't in the photo. I wasn't

1:01:21

in the photo. My husband would

1:01:23

take pictures of me and I

1:01:25

would delete most of them because

1:01:27

I didn't like how I looked.

1:01:29

I would have a picture of

1:01:31

me and my son when he

1:01:33

was five and like not like

1:01:35

it so not display it. And

1:01:37

I was like, what the hell

1:01:39

am I doing? Like, do I

1:01:41

want people to look back on

1:01:43

our family and have like no

1:01:45

evidence that I existed even though?

1:01:47

I'm a huge, clearly a huge

1:01:49

part of the family and loving

1:01:51

them and you know what I

1:01:53

mean? It's just, it's sad. And

1:01:55

when you start to be like,

1:01:57

I believe this way and act

1:01:59

this way. because of society. And

1:02:01

yet we're like, oh, we don't

1:02:03

want women to feel like they're,

1:02:05

you know, they need to apologize

1:02:07

all the time or not establish

1:02:09

boundaries and we can only be like

1:02:11

if we smile, like it's, it's somehow

1:02:14

harder to realize that you've

1:02:16

internalized a lot of these

1:02:18

thoughts we think they're true, but

1:02:20

they're because of the culture we're

1:02:22

raised in. And even what you were

1:02:24

describing the way it gets passed down

1:02:27

through generations. And it's, you know, this

1:02:29

is just what women in our family

1:02:31

do. And the thought that you are

1:02:33

breaking that cycle for your daughter is,

1:02:35

I mean, potentially life changing within

1:02:37

the ripple effect that that has

1:02:40

for the people in her life

1:02:42

and her family and future generations.

1:02:44

I mean, that's where I have

1:02:46

so much hopefulness that we can

1:02:49

turn the tide here. is by

1:02:51

having different conversations and helping people

1:02:53

start to do things differently. And

1:02:56

I think that's what you're doing

1:02:58

in your work in your podcast,

1:03:00

like educating people and then offering

1:03:02

solutions that will help them, right?

1:03:05

Because if your body is fueled

1:03:07

more, if you're not starving,

1:03:09

if you're eating protein and

1:03:11

carbs and fat, then you'll be

1:03:13

happier, you'll have more energy, you'll

1:03:16

be able to do more. Yeah, and

1:03:18

even the thing where I've heard this

1:03:20

and it's always stuck with me that

1:03:22

like when women get together a lot

1:03:24

of times we'll be talking about what

1:03:27

diet are you doing or we're bashing

1:03:29

our bodies and all of that. What

1:03:31

if women weren't doing that and we

1:03:33

were sitting there having more meaningful conversations

1:03:36

about, you know, changing policy or volunteer

1:03:38

work or. heart to hearts about what's

1:03:40

going on in our marriage or with

1:03:42

our kids like life is so much

1:03:45

richer when we're not standing around talking

1:03:47

about food and our weight in our

1:03:49

bodies and dieting all the time anymore.

1:03:51

Yeah. Yeah. And that's another thing that

1:03:54

my friend Ingrid taught me is like don't

1:03:56

comment on anyone's weight. Don't comment

1:03:58

if they gain. weight don't comment

1:04:01

if they've lost weight don't comment

1:04:03

if they look good you know

1:04:05

whatever it is because it's again

1:04:07

whether you mean to or not

1:04:09

it's reinforcing the idea that that

1:04:11

is one of the more interesting

1:04:13

things about them and you know

1:04:15

also that people lose weight because

1:04:17

they're sick or they're in really

1:04:19

painful grief or for me I

1:04:21

used to have really a lot

1:04:23

of anxiety and the funny thing

1:04:25

was that when I was having

1:04:27

the worst of my anxiety, that's

1:04:29

when I would be the skinniest,

1:04:31

right? So I was miserable, I

1:04:33

was radiating anxiety, I was barely

1:04:36

making it through the day, but

1:04:38

people would be like, God, you

1:04:40

look great. And I'd be like,

1:04:42

well, you know. Yeah. And it's

1:04:44

kind of, it sends that message

1:04:46

that how you look is of

1:04:48

the utmost importance, regardless of how

1:04:50

you feel. Yes. And. Yeah, I

1:04:52

hope, I mean, my daughter and

1:04:54

I always talk, so I worked

1:04:56

at L'Oreal for years, and it

1:04:58

is literally the like industrial beauty

1:05:00

complex. Now, I really enjoyed it.

1:05:02

It was fun. I still am

1:05:04

obsessed with like makeup and skin

1:05:06

care, so like no shade. But

1:05:08

Lyla and I always talk about

1:05:10

the fact that like, who decided

1:05:13

that women with longer eyelashes were

1:05:15

somehow more attractive than women with

1:05:17

out like that is an insane

1:05:19

thing to decide now that said

1:05:21

yeah I get my eyelashes done

1:05:23

it's totally fucked up but we

1:05:25

at least talk about how it's

1:05:27

fucked up and I actually pondered

1:05:29

that before or even just like

1:05:31

that we have to get our

1:05:33

nails done in the amount of

1:05:35

time and money an energy that

1:05:37

like we'll spend going to those

1:05:39

appointments and it's like well gosh

1:05:41

I mean men aren't expected to

1:05:43

do all that and yeah I

1:05:45

didn't think that if you like

1:05:48

buy in like in full disclosure

1:05:50

I also get Botax and she

1:05:52

totally noticed that and we the

1:05:54

only person who I don't tell

1:05:56

that to is really my husband

1:05:58

because it's so fucking ex- but

1:06:00

like Lila knows. And I'm like,

1:06:02

yes, I realize this is fucked

1:06:04

up and yet I'm doing it. I'm

1:06:06

fully aware of it and I'm doing

1:06:08

it for me or whatever it is.

1:06:11

Like, you know, you're just like, I

1:06:13

just have to know that this is

1:06:15

messed up and yet still enjoy it.

1:06:17

When you're like, I'm aware and I'm

1:06:20

owning that. And I choose to do

1:06:22

this because I like it better anyway,

1:06:24

but I'm not doing this for X,

1:06:26

you know, like. If you know better,

1:06:29

you do better. And sometimes you still

1:06:31

decide to do shit that's kind of

1:06:33

crazy, but you know. Yeah, we all get to

1:06:35

have those things. And I think it's

1:06:37

so cool that you're having that conversation

1:06:39

with your daughter and that she's even

1:06:41

aware of that at such a young

1:06:44

age, you know, that she can ponder

1:06:46

those things and recognize those things.

1:06:48

Oh yeah, we're always like the fucking

1:06:50

patriarch. a good day. We're like, why

1:06:52

do we believe this? She's like the

1:06:55

patriarchy. Yeah, now let's go get our

1:06:57

nails done. Yeah. Well, so tell me

1:06:59

about you and the work you

1:07:01

do and how people can find

1:07:03

you and learn more. Absolutely. So

1:07:06

you mentioned before I have a

1:07:08

podcast. It's called rebuilding trust with

1:07:10

your body. So if people want

1:07:12

to go check out, there's, you

1:07:15

know, a long library of episodes

1:07:17

there to see what jumps out at you.

1:07:19

I also hang out a lot on Instagram,

1:07:21

so you can find me over there. It's

1:07:23

at katharve.org. And I also have a Facebook

1:07:25

group if you're into that type of thing.

1:07:28

It's called Intuitive Eating Made Easy. That's great.

1:07:30

And do you work with people privately one-on-one?

1:07:32

Do you have a program? What about

1:07:34

all that? Yeah, so I work with

1:07:36

people privately one on one. I also

1:07:38

have self-paced programs. I have group programs.

1:07:40

So it's like I got a little

1:07:42

bit of everything for everybody based on

1:07:44

what they're needing and what they're looking

1:07:46

for, where they're at on their journey

1:07:48

too. But it's not a diet program.

1:07:50

It's a program on how to rebuild,

1:07:52

how to rebuild trust with your body, fuel

1:07:54

your body, not deprive your body and

1:07:57

sort of switch that mindset as well

1:07:59

as habits. Yeah. It's my signature program's

1:08:01

non-diot academy. And I walk you

1:08:03

through like, okay, here's like how

1:08:05

and why to like quit dieting,

1:08:07

here's what to do instead, here's

1:08:09

how to set up your food, and

1:08:11

then we do a lot of

1:08:13

the mental work around the way you

1:08:15

think about food, body image, your

1:08:18

self-care, your relationship to exercise, your

1:08:20

health, and all of this. So we

1:08:22

kind of look at it from

1:08:24

like a very all-encompassing standpoint. And then

1:08:26

I also have programs that are

1:08:28

a little more specific. exploring the principles

1:08:31

of intuitive eating and stuff like

1:08:33

that. Yeah, I mean, I think

1:08:35

that mental work that you talked about

1:08:37

is something that like every single

1:08:39

woman needs to do, regardless of, you

1:08:41

know, what your BMI is or

1:08:43

isn't or how old you are. I

1:08:46

mean, it's just so pervasive and

1:08:48

hard to get away from. It

1:08:50

is and I mean I work with

1:08:52

people at all ends of this

1:08:54

weight spectrum I work with people who

1:08:56

are young adults all the way

1:08:58

up into like their 70s I think

1:09:01

I have a client right now

1:09:03

who's 80 I mean it's it

1:09:05

does it spans everything and it is

1:09:07

one of those struggles that sadly

1:09:09

is so universal. for especially for women

1:09:11

in our culture and dominates so

1:09:13

much of your thoughts and your energy

1:09:16

and your perception of the world

1:09:18

around you. I mean, like you

1:09:20

were saying, if we could let that

1:09:22

go, not let go of like

1:09:24

exercise that makes you feel good or

1:09:26

eating food that you know, or

1:09:28

like letting yourself go, I think is

1:09:31

how sometimes people worry about it.

1:09:33

Yeah. But if you could let

1:09:35

go that energy. and negative energy that

1:09:37

you have, like, what else could

1:09:39

you accomplish in the world or how

1:09:42

much happier or more at peace

1:09:44

would you be? I mean, it's a

1:09:46

constant, it's constant work that I

1:09:48

feel like I still need to

1:09:50

do on a daily day. She had,

1:09:52

she went on vacation with her

1:09:54

family and her grandson was there while

1:09:57

they were on their trip, they

1:09:59

celebrated his birthday and she messaged me

1:10:01

when she got back and she

1:10:03

said, Katie, I haven't eaten cake

1:10:05

in decades like my own children. when

1:10:07

I raised them, I didn't eat

1:10:09

cake with them and I ate birthday

1:10:12

cake with my son for the,

1:10:14

or my grandson for the first time

1:10:16

in however long, like I'm gonna

1:10:18

choke up as I'm saying this,

1:10:20

like she ate cake with him. And

1:10:22

it's not about the cake, but

1:10:24

it's about like being fully present and

1:10:27

connected to that moment and like

1:10:29

in her life. And it's that type

1:10:31

of thing, like it's just so

1:10:33

powerful when we're not only halfway

1:10:35

living our life because of the rules

1:10:37

we're going to follow. Yeah, I

1:10:39

mean I remember obviously I was a

1:10:42

red wine girl and so I

1:10:44

would go to dinner with my with

1:10:46

my kids and have like three

1:10:48

glasses of red wine and then

1:10:50

come home Someone else was always driving

1:10:52

my husband always drove and like

1:10:54

have more and when I was stopping

1:10:57

drinking I was like okay, I

1:10:59

can't do that so I would my

1:11:01

husband would go to the burger

1:11:03

place or whatever we'd meet there

1:11:05

coming from different works and I'd be

1:11:08

like He would have ordered me

1:11:10

a glass of wine. That's what I

1:11:12

wanted. That's what made me happy.

1:11:14

And so I'd sit there with my

1:11:16

kids, my daughter was two, my

1:11:18

son was eight, and be drinking

1:11:20

a milkshake with them. And they were

1:11:23

like, oh my God, you're so

1:11:25

cool. You know, they were like, this

1:11:27

is awesome, mom, as opposed to

1:11:29

me, like, you know, sitting there with

1:11:31

alcohol, like drinking it and kind

1:11:33

of getting fuzzier as the moments

1:11:35

go on. All right, well, thank you

1:11:38

for coming on and having this

1:11:40

conversation and for the work you do.

1:11:42

I've really enjoyed it. Oh, right

1:11:44

back at you. I mean, I've been

1:11:46

just sort of observing you for

1:11:48

so long. And then when I

1:11:50

saw in our shared group that we're

1:11:53

in where you had mentioned something

1:11:55

about like diet culture, I was like,

1:11:57

Casey knows about diet culture, like

1:11:59

she she might be my person. Yeah,

1:12:01

and you will like when you

1:12:03

stop drinking your body will be

1:12:05

happier you will make your workouts you

1:12:08

will have have more energy, you

1:12:10

will sleep better. There are all these

1:12:12

benefits to your body and the

1:12:14

way you look and the way you

1:12:16

function. And what you're able to

1:12:18

do, that will help you regardless

1:12:20

of if you try to reduce calories.

1:12:23

And like you were saying, when

1:12:25

you reduce calories, most people end up

1:12:27

gaining more weight once that weight

1:12:29

cycle is over. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It

1:12:32

has often the opposite of desired

1:12:34

effect. Yeah. All right. Well, thank

1:12:36

you so much. It's so good to

1:12:38

talk to you. Thanks. Thank you

1:12:40

for listening to this episode of the

1:12:42

Hello Someday podcast. If you're interested

1:12:44

in learning more about me, the work

1:12:47

I do, and access free resources

1:12:49

and guides to help you build

1:12:51

a life you love without alcohol, please

1:12:53

visit Hello Someday Coaching.com. And I

1:12:55

would be so grateful if you would

1:12:57

take a few minutes to rate

1:12:59

and review this podcast so that more

1:13:02

women can find it and join

1:13:04

the conversation about drinking less and

1:13:06

living more.