0:00

does 15 minutes a week of

0:02

re -hit training compare to 150

0:04

minutes of jogging? 95 % of

0:06

Americans don't do enough exercise

0:08

because lack of time. So then

0:10

giving a recommendation to spend

0:12

five to eight hours to be

0:14

on mild cardio feels slightly

0:16

misguided to us. You stay consistent.

0:18

But what if the way

0:20

you've been training is the reason

0:22

you're not seeing results? Erlich

0:24

Denfle isn't just another fitness guy.

0:26

He's a German trained engineer

0:28

and an Epic Sports Scientist. And

0:30

he built something that's shattering everything

0:33

we thought we knew about cardio.

0:35

Because real performance, it doesn't take

0:37

four hours of zone two. It

0:39

doesn't take 45 minutes of cardio,

0:41

or 30, or even 10. What

0:43

if the most powerful workout for

0:45

your heart just took two 20 -second

0:48

breaths? He's the creator of Carole

0:50

Bike, and his re -hit protocol

0:52

is in fear. Our research is

0:54

aimed at people who currently are

0:56

inactive and would like to do

0:58

more exercise, to get healthier, but

1:00

just don't find the time to

1:02

do this. For these individuals, we

1:05

want the perfect solution. Six times

1:07

better fitness gains than jogging for

1:09

an hour a day. A 62

1:11

% drop in diabetes risk. A

1:13

12 % VO2 max improvement with a

1:15

five -minute workout. And that correlates

1:17

to a two -year increase in life

1:20

expectancy. Psychologists shaped it. Scientists tested

1:22

it. AI affected it. If you

1:24

run to clear your head, great.

1:26

But if you exercise to change

1:28

your body, this interview will

1:30

change your mindset. We have

1:32

really hard scientific data, and

1:34

we saw that during three

1:36

short workouts, we achieved a

1:38

12 % improvement in the

1:40

max in only eight weeks.

1:42

What do you say to

1:45

people who say, there's no

1:47

way re -hit is dominating older

1:49

cardio methods this much? You

1:51

don't need more motivation. You

1:53

need better science. Smaller effort,

1:55

bigger results. This is the

1:57

new cardio. You're

1:59

to the Human Upgrade with

2:01

Dave Asprey. Hey,

2:06

real quick. If you've only been listening

2:08

on your favorite podcast app, you're missing

2:10

half the fun. Head on over to

2:12

my YouTube channel. I'm doing way more

2:14

over there. full video podcast episodes weekly.

2:16

YouTube only videos and some wild extras

2:18

you're not going to hear here. Just

2:20

search Dave Asprey on YouTube. See you

2:22

there. Our guest today is

2:24

Ulrich Denfle, who's CEO and founder

2:26

of Carole Bike. And

2:28

this is a really

2:31

cool biohacking technology. Like

2:33

I am allergic to

2:35

this mindset. Well, if

2:37

you want to die at the normal

2:39

age, but at least be healthy until you

2:42

die because longevity is impossible. You have

2:44

to do zone 2 cardio for 12 hours

2:46

a week. And there's a guy

2:48

who says he's a longevity doctor who

2:50

doesn't believe in longevity, who's promoting this. And

2:52

I'm like, I don't have 12 hours

2:54

a week to spend on that because I

2:56

want that time back to do things

2:58

that actually matter with my life. And if

3:00

I want to do zone 2 with

3:03

a friend or something, that's great. I just

3:05

fundamentally, I want to get the results

3:07

in the least possible time. So there was

3:09

a time in my life where I

3:11

would do an hour and a half of

3:13

exercise, including 45 minutes of hard cardio

3:15

six days a week. And I

3:17

never lost any weight on that. And it

3:19

really pissed me off, even after 18

3:22

months. And over

3:24

it comes along, it's like, oh,

3:26

I have this new research.

3:28

There's three studies now supporting this

3:30

that show you can increase

3:32

your VO2 max. VO2 max is

3:34

a major thing for aging. And

3:37

you can do it in 15 minutes a

3:39

week. And it works six times

3:41

better than an hour a day of

3:43

cardio. So that's what we're going to

3:45

talk about in the episode today is

3:47

the Carroll bike and the technology behind

3:49

it called ReHit. And Ulrich,

3:51

how much have you increased your VO2

3:53

max using this 15 minutes a week

3:55

kind of protocol? Over

3:57

50%. So I've actually looked

3:59

this up again 12 years

4:01

ago when I was 35.

4:04

I had a view to Microsoft 32, which

4:07

that's low. But I had

4:09

three young children, job

4:11

as a management consultant, and didn't focus

4:13

on that. Today, I'm

4:15

47, and I have

4:17

a view to Microsoft 53.

4:20

And I do that literally

4:22

with 15 minutes a week.

4:24

So it's 50, 60 % increase,

4:26

and it works. This

4:28

is so cool. And you're

4:30

not just an inventor sort

4:32

of thing. You also sort

4:34

of helped pioneer AI within

4:36

the UK National Health Service. Like,

4:39

you're a true scientist nerd.

4:41

And like me, just saying, you know what?

4:43

Like, I don't have time for this.

4:45

I got kids. I got stuff to do.

4:48

And so I'm super grateful that

4:50

you're just poking holes in some

4:52

of the beliefs. And

4:54

the primary belief is that working

4:57

harder or struggling or working longer

4:59

gets results. And it doesn't appear

5:01

to be linear. What is

5:03

a J -shaped curve for exercise and

5:05

why does it matter? For

5:07

most exercise, it is

5:09

true that if you do

5:12

more longer or harder, you get

5:14

better results. But

5:16

if you trigger or cause

5:18

and pull specific triggers,

5:20

you can get a much

5:22

stronger training stimulus much,

5:24

much faster. And that is

5:26

essentially you achieve that

5:28

by ramping up the intensity

5:30

with which you work

5:32

out very rapidly, almost instantly

5:34

from zero to max. And

5:37

then you only have to hold it

5:39

for a very short moment. Two

5:42

times 20 seconds

5:44

is enough to get

5:46

your body to

5:48

release very powerful signaling

5:50

molecules like AMGK

5:53

PGC1 alpha and create

5:55

and saturate the

5:57

adaptation pathway that creates

5:59

training stimulus. And

6:02

it's, in fact, you don't have

6:04

to do more sprints or longer

6:06

sprints because it's like flipping a

6:08

switch. Getting that stimulus

6:10

once into the system saturates the

6:12

pathway and you get already

6:14

maximum benefits. You said that

6:16

for most types of exercise,

6:19

that doing more gets you

6:21

better results, but crossfitters, they

6:23

get over -trained. They get

6:25

injured and a lot of,

6:27

in fact, 80 % of the

6:29

people who come into upgrade

6:31

labs, we're measuring all these

6:33

biological parameters, they do not

6:35

need more exercise. They need

6:37

more recovery. And

6:39

so it feels like even for strength

6:42

training, the speed

6:44

of exhaustion is more important

6:46

than the volume of work. Are

6:49

you seeing that pattern as well? Oh,

6:51

absolutely. That's true in cardio. where

6:53

you can do an exercise like

6:55

re -hit, reduce the exertion, high intensity

6:57

interval training, two 20

6:59

seconds all -out sprints, and

7:02

you can achieve the same

7:04

thing with strength training, where

7:06

if you have AI

7:09

controlled resistance, like mechanized resistance,

7:11

that delivers exactly the

7:13

maximum force that you can

7:15

basically move at that

7:17

point in time. You can

7:19

also get a much...

7:22

better result in a much

7:24

shorter period of time. But

7:26

the thing is, you need

7:28

to have access to that technology

7:31

and understand the training methodologies,

7:33

and then you can basically create

7:35

this alternative stimulus. But

7:37

if you're, say, you do

7:39

moderate intensity training, you

7:41

go jogging also, then generally speaking,

7:43

it's true that if you put

7:45

more time into that. we will

7:47

get better results. And for things

7:49

like sewing, yeah, you do have

7:51

to work out quite long because

7:53

otherwise you just don't create the

7:55

training stimulus at all. That is

7:57

a valid point. If you're

7:59

jogging, you're wearing out your knees and your

8:01

ankles and all that, 80 % of people start

8:03

running quit in the first year because they get

8:06

injured anyway. But it is going

8:08

to take a long time to get

8:10

enough stimulus to have any effect. But

8:12

the results of the stimulus are very

8:14

small because Even like an

8:16

hour a day in eight weeks, you're

8:18

going to improve by about 2 % if

8:20

you're doing a normal spin class kind

8:22

of thing. But if you're doing re

8:24

-hit on Carol, you're getting a 12 %

8:26

improvement in your VO2 max in like

8:28

15 minutes versus several hours. So

8:31

when guys like, say,

8:33

Peter Atea are out there going like, you

8:35

have to do zone two for two hours a

8:37

day and then, you know, rock something or

8:39

whatever his latest overtraining regimen is, what

8:41

do you say to the zone two

8:44

zealots? What we

8:46

tell them is one, if

8:48

you have a lot of time and you

8:50

enjoy it, yes, follow me. It's fine. So

8:52

if you're a masochist, like you move to

8:54

Berlin or something, okay, I got you. Don't.

8:58

That's all right. I mean, to

9:00

be honest, if you, like in summer, I

9:02

love hiking with my family. I guess

9:04

I stay in zone two. That's a

9:07

valid thing. Yeah, that's for fun. That's

9:09

different, right? Absolutely. But

9:11

what we say is yes.

9:13

Zone 2 has some evidence behind

9:16

it. And if you do

9:18

it right, and if you do

9:20

it in the proposed quantity,

9:22

so like 60 to 90 minutes

9:24

per session, 3 to 5

9:26

times a week. So yes, we'll

9:28

see some improvement in your

9:31

mitochondrial density. You will see improvement

9:33

in your mitochondrial efficiency. But

9:35

should that be the

9:38

top priority and the

9:40

basic recognition for a

9:42

broad audience? No,

9:44

we disagree. Wholeheartedly we did

9:46

that. That is something

9:49

that trickled out of

9:51

athletes, like being elite

9:53

athlete training into the

9:55

mainstream with action, very

9:58

little scientific evidence, especially

10:00

some of the recommendations

10:02

that I've given, don't

10:05

have much scientific

10:07

evidence. And it has picked

10:09

up some traction. It seems to have

10:11

become fashionable. Many people read. It seemed

10:13

to buy into that. I wonder how

10:15

many people wouldn't do it because there's

10:17

just, I think most people will run

10:19

into time constraints eventually. 95

10:21

% of Americans don't

10:24

do enough exercise because

10:26

lack of time. So

10:28

then giving a recommendation

10:30

to spend like five

10:32

to eight hours per

10:34

week on mild cardio

10:36

feels slightly misguided to

10:39

us. Wow. I

10:41

couldn't agree more. It's

10:44

that you could be, if you had 10

10:47

hours a week to exercise and to become a

10:49

better human being, you have to

10:51

allocate some of this to meditation, or you

10:53

could do meditation plus breath work, which works

10:55

faster. And there's all my newest book, heavily

10:57

meditated, that's all that stuff. And on the

10:59

exercise front, if you look at Smarter Not

11:01

Harder, I write about your work. I write

11:03

about re -hit in there, like for exercise. So

11:06

if you only have 10 hours or you're

11:08

like, a lot of people, you have two

11:10

hours a week. And that's got to be

11:12

everything. So do you want to

11:14

take a cold shower or do you want to

11:16

do cryotherapy? You want to cryotherapy because it's

11:18

faster, right? And then do you want to

11:20

do all of your time on zone two and then, oh,

11:22

I guess I'll just hire a babysitter while I do

11:24

the rest of it? Or do you want to just do

11:26

re -hit on a carol bike? I think

11:28

you have kind of a moral obligation to say, if

11:30

my goal was this, let's get there quickly so

11:32

I can do more important things in the world. What

11:35

do you do with the time you save? Oh,

11:37

I mean, first, I couldn't

11:39

do. other types of

11:41

exercise, which are necessary and

11:44

effective. So that's strength

11:46

training, mobility training. And then,

11:48

as you said, there's so

11:50

much more that you can do like

11:52

meditate, like spending time with your loved

11:54

ones. And for me,

11:57

so I'll bite there. And I

12:00

think it should be slightly ironic

12:02

that I advocate a little bit

12:04

against zone two, because a car

12:06

or bike is probably the best

12:08

tool to do zone two. Because

12:10

we have the coolest technology to

12:12

help you find exactly the right

12:15

intensity for zone two. So if

12:17

you wanted to be zone two

12:19

and you can listen to a

12:21

cool podcast or watch your favorite

12:23

show on that, then it's a

12:25

great addition to it. So

12:27

we're not, I don't want to put it all

12:29

together. It's just most people

12:31

don't have spare time. intense

12:34

competition for our time. There's

12:36

trillion -dollar companies that keep our

12:38

time and our attention. So

12:41

therefore, just saying,

12:43

well, you have to do it

12:45

all seems unrealistic. And

12:47

in all fairness, the big

12:49

proponents, I think they're all saying, no, you have

12:51

to do zone two, you have to do

12:53

zone five, you have to do it all. So

12:56

they recognize that zone two

12:58

alone is not enough. In fact,

13:01

by anybody who's under

13:03

some misconception that there's

13:05

good data that shows

13:07

that you only did

13:09

zone two at government

13:11

guidelines level of 150

13:13

minutes per week, that

13:15

40 % of people would

13:17

just not see an increase

13:19

in either cardiorespiratory fitness in

13:21

their view to max at

13:24

all. So therefore, you

13:26

have to listen carefully to what people

13:28

say. You hear, yes, you have

13:30

to do zone 2 and zone 5. And

13:33

we say there's other

13:35

way around. Start with the

13:37

most efficient training as

13:39

your base. Make that your

13:41

base. Then do strength. Then

13:43

do mobility. Do something for your mind.

13:46

Do something for your social connections. Make

13:48

sure you get enough sleep. So there's

13:50

enough else you ought to be doing. And

13:53

then if you have still more time

13:55

and you really enjoy it, Then yes,

13:57

for all means in zone two and

13:59

do it in the most effective and

14:01

efficient way possible. And we

14:03

help people with that too. But it's

14:05

somewhere later down the line list of

14:07

priorities. I'm with you there. If you

14:09

are a pro athlete or you have unlimited

14:11

time and you love it, you do a bunch

14:13

of zone two. I would just

14:15

say rehab has so much more evidence

14:17

behind it. In fact, you should do rehab

14:19

and then you could do some zone

14:21

two if you really wanted to. I don't

14:24

know if you've ever looked into these

14:26

things, but There's a substance I wrote about

14:28

in Superhuman that's banned by the International

14:30

Olympic Committee, which means we know that it

14:32

works. And it's

14:34

called GW501516 or

14:36

Cartering that raises

14:38

PGC1 alpha and

14:41

increases mitochondrial density.

14:43

So I would rather do ReHit plus

14:45

something like Cartering and get the mitochondrial

14:48

density that would have cost me like

14:50

eight hours a week of zone two.

14:52

So I'm like, guys, pick up some

14:54

heavy stuff, learn functional movement and the

14:56

time you save on this because Rehit

14:58

frees up so much and then you

15:00

can have the VO2 Max that you

15:02

want. I

15:06

have a question for you because

15:08

you've pioneered this, you've done heavy

15:10

-duty research on Rehit and built

15:12

it into the Karel AI capability

15:14

set. What do I do

15:17

if I'm on the road? There's

15:19

no upgrade labs where you can do

15:21

Rehit with Karel, but Like,

15:23

can I go to a park and do it? What's the

15:25

closest way I could come to what you're talking about if

15:27

I don't have your tech? Yeah, sure.

15:29

So there's a few things that I wouldn't do.

15:31

Yeah, I wouldn't do it on a treadmill.

15:33

I wouldn't do it on a roller. I wouldn't

15:36

do it on... It's very difficult on a

15:38

regular exercise point, to be honest. And

15:40

treadmill roller is just the injury

15:42

risk would be too high. If

15:44

you're good to run, if

15:46

your joints can cope with

15:48

sprinting and you have a

15:50

hill, then Hill Sprints,

15:53

for example, are

15:55

a very effective tool

15:57

where you can also

15:59

increase the intensity quite

16:01

strictly. So the

16:03

rapid increase from zero to max

16:05

is important, and where you can

16:07

achieve really all -out intensity. So

16:09

that would be an alternative

16:11

that probably works quite well. But

16:14

there's a few caveats. First,

16:17

can your joints handle it? There's maybe

16:19

a trip hazard. And

16:21

most people have like slight

16:23

inhibition being seen in public

16:25

going all out. So

16:27

we carry bikes are not only in

16:29

the leaving firehacking facilities like upgrade

16:32

labs, but also some offices have it

16:34

because it's so quick. Most people

16:36

don't sweat. You can do it in

16:38

your lunch break. And what we've

16:40

seen is if the bike is in

16:42

a public area, it just gets

16:45

much less usage than if it is

16:47

in a secluded private area where

16:49

you can go all out and and

16:51

not you'll somehow yeah fun about

16:53

yourself and i think the same thing

16:55

happens if you run outside most

16:57

people just don't want to go especially

17:00

if they don't look like you

17:02

know an athlete yet but they they

17:04

want to get there go all

17:06

out in public so that that's one

17:08

the other thing if you have

17:10

access to an air bike like an

17:13

assault bike or something like that

17:15

so if your gym has something like

17:17

that You could try so those

17:19

are bites where you can also increase

17:21

intensity quite quickly. It's not perfect

17:23

because it has essentially just one beer.

17:26

So it might be optimal for

17:28

a, you know, your 35 year old

17:30

CrossFit athlete. But

17:32

it's almost certainly not

17:34

perfect for somebody

17:36

who's 60, 65, 70

17:38

and. with Kerobite

17:41

because we have 255 years

17:43

and AI controls breaking

17:45

mechanism and algorithms that tailor

17:47

it and personalize it

17:49

too. We can every

17:51

single time provide a optimal

17:53

workout for basically every age

17:55

and fitness level. And my

17:57

mom is 81, she can

17:59

do it three times a

18:01

week and her workouts look

18:04

different than mine. But

18:06

for her, it's an optimal workout.

18:09

she can do it. And so, yes,

18:11

there are some different options. Our

18:14

byte is very, very optimized for

18:16

it. I haven't found anything better. And

18:18

that's why it's a part of

18:20

our tech stack at Upgrade Labs. Tell

18:23

me more about the specific

18:25

benefits of what you can

18:27

do with Carole. How does

18:29

15 minutes a week of

18:31

re -hit training compare to

18:33

150 minutes of jogging? Like,

18:35

give me the hard numbers.

18:37

Yeah, sure. And so there

18:39

we have really hard scientific

18:41

data, like a

18:43

randomized control peer reviewed

18:45

academic trial. And

18:48

we saw that you're

18:50

doing like these three

18:52

short workouts a week.

18:55

The renits then achieve

18:57

a 12 % improvement in

18:59

build to max in

19:01

only age groups. And

19:04

As you said, Biltro Max is

19:06

a really, really critical, maybe the

19:08

most important health marker. There's a

19:10

very substantial improvement, and if you

19:12

then continue further, you

19:14

see about 20 % improvement on average

19:17

over 20 weeks, and the progress continues

19:19

further. For me, it was over

19:21

50 % in the first year. The

19:23

control group that spent like

19:25

six times as much time,

19:28

even more time. on moderate

19:30

intensity training. So they did

19:32

five times a week, 30

19:34

-minute jogging. They also saw

19:36

an improvement. So they saw an

19:38

improvement of about 6 % in

19:40

VO2 max. But if

19:42

you... And so it's very clear.

19:44

Exercise is good for you. So

19:47

I don't want to be

19:49

misconceptional about that. Exercise is

19:51

good for you. But they

19:54

have to spend a lot

19:56

more time and got around

19:58

half... cognitive, spiritual, fitness benefit.

20:00

And that's one big part

20:02

of the story. The other

20:04

big part of the story

20:06

is around metabolic health. So

20:08

you can measure a basket

20:11

of indicators like your blood

20:13

sugar levels, cholesterol, HDL, and

20:15

so on, and

20:17

then complete your risk

20:19

of developing metabolic diseases.

20:22

And with the ReHIT group, In

20:24

that eight -week period, they

20:26

saw a 62 % risk reduction.

20:30

62 % risk reduction in 15

20:32

minutes a week. Absolutely. That's

20:34

actually a greater risk reduction than you

20:36

get from brushing your teeth. Yeah,

20:39

it's a very good thing to do. It's

20:41

a shame that not everybody does

20:43

it yet, but we're working on that.

20:46

The other group also saw a

20:48

substantial risk reduction. They got

20:50

something like 27 % risk reduction. Again,

20:53

exercise is really good. If you don't

20:55

do exercise yet, do something. And

20:58

if you love zone 2

21:00

training, then zone 2 training. But

21:02

if you want to get

21:04

maximum benefits and minimum time and

21:06

do the most efficient exercise

21:08

for your cardio, for your metabolic

21:10

health, then something like we

21:12

hit this. That is

21:14

just incredibly cool. I

21:16

mean, we can transform

21:18

our time. And so

21:21

if you're on the road, And you go

21:23

to a hotel, they don't have an assault bike

21:25

or anything like that. What if

21:27

you skip for a week? Or what if you only

21:29

do it once a week? How many times a

21:31

week do you have to do a re -hit in

21:33

order to get results? Yeah. So,

21:35

or the coliorespiratory, for the

21:37

VO2 max benefit, two

21:39

times a week is actually enough.

21:42

That's what the latest research shows.

21:44

Or metabolic health, that effect is slightly

21:47

shorter than it, there's a more acute

21:49

effect. three pounds a week is better.

21:51

So our recommendation is three pounds a

21:53

week or three pounds just every other

21:55

day. And every other day

21:57

is pretty much what I

21:59

do. And then there is obviously,

22:01

this is how exercise works.

22:03

There is a detraining effect. And

22:06

that's why it's so important that you have something

22:08

that you can stick to and not just

22:10

say, oh, I'm going to do a big effort

22:13

and spend now 10 hours a week and then

22:15

get in shape. And

22:17

then you run out

22:19

of time and reality

22:21

catches up with you.

22:23

because de -training effect tends

22:25

to be as fast

22:27

as the training effect.

22:29

The body responds wonderfully

22:31

to stimulus and to

22:33

exercise. It's really magic,

22:35

but it also means,

22:37

unfortunately, if you stop

22:39

de -training. Now, I

22:41

had a student experimentation

22:43

on myself. I wrote my

22:45

color book on a

22:47

steam around Christmas. and had

22:49

like a two -month break on the

22:52

bike. And I did

22:54

a reduction in my B2

22:56

maximum because I couldn't do

22:58

terrible much in terms of

23:00

cardio exercise or strength training.

23:02

And I saw maybe a

23:04

15 % reduction in that time,

23:06

but I caught that up

23:08

really fast again and got

23:10

back to, yeah, a really,

23:13

yeah, like a high level for

23:15

my age and I feel very

23:17

high. you to max overall.

23:19

So it's really important that we

23:21

find something you can do and you

23:23

can stick to. Okay.

23:27

So it just doesn't have to be that hard. That

23:29

gets you out of the way. And

23:31

these are things you can get at home with a carol

23:34

bike. You can come and do an upgrade labs as part

23:36

of your membership. You can stack

23:38

this on. What are the

23:40

other most surprising benefits you

23:42

found from ReHit that just you

23:44

would not have predicted? There's

23:46

actually quite the long list

23:48

of benefits. And I

23:50

think, again, it is

23:52

just reflective of how

23:55

important exercise is. And

23:57

then it's really encouraging to see that you can

23:59

get those benefits in a really short period of time.

24:01

So beyond... So the

24:04

headline is Veerju Max

24:06

Metabolic Health. Beyond that,

24:08

it has good impact on your leg

24:10

strength. So in that

24:12

eight weeks, you will also

24:14

see... average, an increase in

24:16

15 % of your leg strength,

24:18

also measured in one rep

24:20

max of a squat. Because

24:23

the courses that you exert,

24:25

even though sprints are so high,

24:27

they're relevant for strength training

24:29

too. The next thing

24:31

is I'm absolutely convinced

24:33

I haven't seen much data

24:35

on that, but just

24:37

with greater metabolic flexibility and

24:39

greater insulin sensitivity that

24:41

weight management becomes. media.

24:44

So we, we, we hesitate

24:46

to promise to people, oh,

24:48

you better just lose weight

24:50

like a miracle because nutrition

24:52

is just the number one

24:54

thing for weight loss. Yeah,

24:56

it's, it's, your top priority

24:59

is what you need, how

25:01

much you, and, but exercise

25:03

is, if it helps me

25:05

to gain metabolic flexibility, gain

25:07

good insulin sensitivity. It

25:09

just makes weight management so much easier

25:11

because we can go for periods without

25:14

sleep. You can fast, for example, without

25:16

starving your brain because you actually have

25:18

access to, you know, in the energy

25:20

you carry around in your fat cells.

25:22

And then there's a bunch of other

25:24

things. There's, let's me book for you

25:26

a circadian rhythm. If you do it

25:28

at the same time after you get

25:31

up, helps to set that. If

25:33

you have problems sleeping, high

25:35

intensity exercise has been

25:37

shown. to offset some of

25:39

the damaging effect of

25:42

lack of sleep. So even

25:44

one night lack of

25:46

sleep and to insulin

25:48

resistance, like temporary insulin resistance

25:50

and high intensity training

25:53

helps to offset that. In

25:55

terms of brain wheel health,

25:58

you can get with high

26:00

intensity exercise, much higher BDNX

26:02

release than with regular exercise.

26:04

So BDNF helps. How much

26:06

more BDNF comes from re

26:08

-hit versus normal exercise? BDNF

26:10

is really important because it

26:12

makes your brain more neuroplastic. Correct.

26:14

Correct. And so there was

26:17

a recent study out of New

26:19

Zealand that has thrown four

26:21

to five times higher BDNF rooms.

26:24

Whoa. Okay. Five times more

26:26

BDNF from using re -hit versus zone

26:28

two. I think you

26:30

just punched zone two in the nuts. That

26:33

was specifically, that was a hit

26:35

program that was not specifically re

26:37

-hit, but I think it's quite

26:39

easy to presume and surmise that

26:41

that applies to re -hit because re

26:43

-hit mimics in many ways. It

26:46

takes hit to the

26:48

next level. So you get

26:50

hit benefits in a

26:52

very, very compressed way. So

26:54

yes, no, it's very, very

26:57

rewarding in a way and fascinating

26:59

like how so little effort

27:01

can have so many like such

27:03

a long list of benefits. Another

27:06

thing is, so this is again

27:08

a study of research more done on

27:10

hit more broadly is around anxiety

27:12

and depression. That

27:14

exercise and specifically

27:17

high intensity exercise

27:19

is as effective

27:21

or more effective

27:23

than psychotherapy or

27:25

medication in managing

27:27

anxiety and depression. So

27:30

there's a long

27:32

list of benefits. I think

27:34

most of it is just a

27:36

testament for exercise being so

27:38

important and so beneficial. And

27:41

then remit achieves to

27:43

capture those benefits in an

27:45

incredibly short amount of

27:47

time. And so you can

27:49

basically tap into that long list

27:51

of benefits in a very, very

27:53

efficient way. What's the

27:55

difference between 20 second

27:57

and 10 second exercise intervals

27:59

during re -hit? seconds

28:02

are our kind of

28:04

main go -to protocol

28:06

that has most research

28:08

and has been basically

28:11

pirated to the minimum

28:13

effective dose of getting

28:15

the full benefits of

28:17

WeHIT. And

28:19

20 seconds, it doesn't sound like

28:21

terribly much, but if you've done

28:23

20 seconds all out sprints, you

28:25

will notice like the first 10

28:28

seconds you're actually really in, then

28:30

the next Five seconds feel a bit

28:32

harder, but the last five seconds are actually

28:34

quite hard. The beauty is you

28:36

always see the light at the end of

28:38

the tunnel, and psychologically it's quite easy to

28:40

push through. But nevertheless, for

28:43

some people it is too hard. And

28:45

then 10 seconds is a

28:47

much, much easier way of

28:50

doing it. So it feels,

28:53

it's not half as hard. It's

28:55

like a 10 or so in

28:57

terms of how hard it feels.

28:59

And it still offers meaningful benefits.

29:01

And so, where we

29:03

saw the 12 %

29:05

improvement in Biotomax

29:07

over Inkbeaks with the

29:10

20 -second protocol, I

29:12

think it was 4 % to 5 %

29:14

improvement of the 10 -second protocol. So

29:17

it's a, you

29:19

know, there comes then a

29:21

trade -off where Ness is led. But

29:24

if that's what helps you

29:26

get started, and that's

29:28

what allows you to do it,

29:30

then it's a wonderful way to get

29:32

it in. And it's also

29:34

like a good energizer. So

29:37

if you want to do it in a

29:39

workplace and you just need to kind of

29:41

pression up a little bit and want to

29:43

get crisp and sharp again, that's

29:45

a wonderful way without kind of

29:47

getting heavily out of breath and just

29:49

we need to get that quick

29:51

boost in energy. That's just incredible. It

29:53

almost sounds too good to be

29:55

true. What do you say to people

29:57

who say there's no way re -hit

29:59

is dominating older cardio methods this

30:01

much? So try it. The

30:05

threshold is not that high.

30:08

I'm sure you offer some people can

30:10

go to upgrade labs and try

30:12

and see for themselves. In fact,

30:14

we offer So if

30:17

we don't have showrooms, it's not

30:19

something we offer. We sell our bikes

30:21

directly to customers. But if you

30:23

purchase a bike, we

30:25

offer a 100 -day, what

30:27

we call, risk -free trial, which

30:29

means you get your parallel

30:31

bike, and then you

30:33

have 100 days to see whether

30:35

it's effective, whether it works for

30:38

you, whether you like it, and

30:40

whether you can stick to it. And

30:43

if it isn't, then we just take

30:45

it back. Like, yeah, we'd like

30:47

to know why you don't, but a good

30:49

boss to learn. Yeah, we didn't like the

30:51

color, okay, but we can think about that

30:53

for our next version, or whether they want

30:56

to have a white bike or so. But

30:58

we're not going to haggle or so. No,

31:00

we just get a full refund and we

31:02

kick up the bike. And

31:04

we can only offer that because

31:06

for most people, it works

31:08

really well. It delivers amazing results.

31:11

They like it and they

31:13

can stick to it. That's

31:15

why we're able to operate. I

31:17

don't think there's anybody else who

31:19

gives you 100 day with home

31:21

trial. It's kind of ridiculous because

31:24

within 100 days, most fitness devices

31:26

become clothing racks. It

31:29

just happens. And you're saying,

31:31

If it becomes a clothing rack because you just don't

31:33

use it, just send it back. And I've never

31:35

heard of that before. Yeah, we pick it up. Exactly.

31:37

We pick it up. We have to take your

31:39

clothes off, but we're happy to pick it up. So,

31:42

no, we're that confident

31:44

in our bike. And

31:46

we have by now thousands and

31:48

tens of thousands of riders and

31:50

millions of rides. And we see

31:52

the improvement. We see it in

31:54

our data. It mirrors what is

31:56

achieved in technical trials. And

31:58

so, yes, we're now. really very confident

32:00

that this is real. I have no

32:03

doubt about it. mean, I've written about

32:05

it in the books. I've built it

32:07

into our tech stack at upgrade labs

32:09

where people can come in and you

32:11

can come in, you can try out

32:13

the bike and you can even measure

32:15

other physiological things using other tech there

32:17

to see what's changing in your body.

32:20

So guys, if you're in one of the nine cities that

32:22

have an upgrade labs, you should swim by and check it

32:24

out. And if you're not, you can

32:26

pick up a carol bike or Come visit

32:28

and we're happy to do it. It's upgrade

32:30

labs.com. If you want to find if there's

32:32

one near you and it's carol bike.com, right?

32:35

That's right. Yes. All right. It's

32:37

carol bike.com. You can use code

32:39

Dave, which usually works on places

32:41

and they have a special deal. They'll

32:44

give you at least $100 off

32:46

and if there's any better special

32:48

anywhere, they'll just automatically give you

32:50

the best pricing. So if you're

32:52

interested in saving a whole

32:54

bunch of time, this is way more important

32:56

than an electric toothbrush. It's

32:58

kind of ridiculous what it does. The

33:01

one area that really

33:03

does deserve more attention in

33:05

the world's diet has

33:07

to do with mitochondrial effectiveness

33:09

or insulin sensitivity, which

33:11

is a measure of that.

33:14

What does re -hit do for insulin

33:16

sensitivity versus zone two or other

33:18

types of cardio? Here's actually a

33:20

little bit of debate. and

33:23

evidence that points in

33:25

different directions. So

33:27

the Zone 2 proponents

33:30

and some research points

33:32

towards rate of benefits

33:34

from Zone 2. If

33:36

you do it for

33:38

all those many hours

33:40

in terms of mitochondrial

33:42

density, so how many mitochondria

33:44

you have, how large

33:46

they are, and

33:49

high intensity training

33:51

like we hip, seems

33:53

to be more

33:55

effective in increasing mitochondrial

33:57

efficiency. So how well

33:59

your mitochondria work? And

34:01

so that kind of makes an

34:03

argument to say, well, if you

34:06

have all the time in the

34:08

world, you might as well do

34:10

both and use one to develop

34:12

as many and as large mitochondria

34:14

as possible. Use the other to

34:16

make them as efficient as possible.

34:19

Now, Some of the scientists

34:21

that we work with, I

34:24

know, don't necessarily agree with

34:26

those findings and say, no,

34:28

you get with we hit

34:30

and get really strong PGC1

34:32

alpha activation. And there's actually

34:35

not much reason to believe

34:37

that zone two training was

34:39

better at improving mitochondrial density. But

34:42

if you look

34:44

through the literature, a

34:48

discourse. current

34:50

state of the art would be if

34:52

you want to do it all, you

34:54

do it both. If

34:56

you want maximum results with

34:58

minimum time, then you

35:00

do something like we hit

35:02

and you know that

35:04

you get fantastic results in

35:06

terms of near to

35:08

maximum improvement and improvements in

35:10

mitochondrial health and mitochondrial

35:12

efficiency. And I think

35:14

that will be the right advice

35:16

for the big majority of people.

35:19

I'm very well said, and I

35:21

like your level headedness about zone

35:23

two, and that if you're

35:25

willing to put in all the time,

35:27

it does have additional marginal benefits. It's

35:30

benefits that I know how to

35:32

get with supplements anyway, but it's

35:34

not that it's zero benefits. It's

35:36

just the benefit per minute is

35:38

just so low. That's why I

35:40

find it just kind of sad

35:42

when people are just going out

35:45

and pushing this because you're not

35:47

seeing your kids. doing

35:49

other things. I

35:51

think it's quite

35:53

good to understand where

35:55

this current type

35:57

of zone 2, that's

35:59

how we understand where it came

36:01

from. Where did the world get

36:03

this zone 2 fetish? So,

36:07

if you look at really elite

36:09

athletes, Tour de France cyclists, who

36:12

do this for a living,

36:14

they're professionals, they train 25 to

36:16

35 hours per week. and

36:19

you just cannot do

36:21

more than five to seven

36:24

hours at high intensity

36:26

each week. If you did

36:28

more at high intensity, you would

36:30

clearly be overtraining, it would

36:32

be counterproductive. So

36:34

once these top athletes have five

36:36

to seven hours at high

36:38

intensity in their workout schedule, they

36:41

fill up the rest of the

36:43

time with low intensity work. And

36:45

that means another 20 hours

36:47

or so of low intensity work.

36:49

And that's where recommendations like

36:51

we should do 80 % zone

36:53

2, 20 % zone 5 come

36:55

from. Because, well, if we're to

36:57

the frost winner, does that

37:00

as his exercise program, then it

37:02

must be good for everybody. So

37:05

that split 80 % zone

37:07

2 versus 20 % zone 5.

37:10

So to the best of my

37:12

knowledge, and the researchers we'll work

37:14

with just does not have scientific

37:16

evidence. It's yes. elite athletes

37:18

do that, but whether

37:20

it's fit for, you know,

37:22

the masses out there, that's

37:25

less here. And

37:27

even, so we, like

37:29

even, like in really

37:32

strong advocates, like Professor

37:34

San Milan, are

37:36

really clear that high intensity

37:38

training is critical. So I

37:40

can quote in pretty much

37:42

directly as saying, kind of

37:44

high intensity, likely to take

37:46

training is essential,

37:49

and it is where the magic

37:51

happens. So it's not that they say,

37:53

oh, you only have to do

37:55

Zone 2 at all. And

37:57

so they've been here. You

38:00

have to do high -intensity

38:02

work as well. It's

38:04

just then somehow it

38:06

met her. And I think

38:08

quite wrong advice that

38:10

Zone 2 should be your

38:13

base. And like this 80

38:15

-20 split should be good for everybody. when

38:17

it's good for you be athletes. I

38:20

feel like zone two has become the new low

38:22

fat. Like everyone believes it based

38:24

on a study, but it's more like,

38:26

oh, if it works really well for a

38:28

Formula One driver, it's what you should

38:30

do. So you have a bunch of people

38:32

swapping their tires out every time they

38:34

come home from work for new tires, because

38:36

they could be worn out and doing

38:38

all this crazy, you know, 100 octane fuel,

38:40

none of which your Camry needs. So

38:43

unless you are a

38:45

really ultra elite athlete, then

38:47

maybe there's a case for this

38:49

because you're getting paid to go do

38:51

that zone two time. That

38:53

is what your primary focus is. For the rest of

38:56

us, we want to live a very long time.

38:58

We want to look good, we want to feel good,

39:00

we want to have lots of energy, we want

39:02

to have mitochondrial density, all that stuff. So

39:04

I think re -hit is so much more

39:06

powerful. It's not just twice as good. It's

39:09

like 10 times as good as the type

39:11

of exercise people are doing. But

39:13

what I want to know

39:15

is how much Better is re

39:17

-hit than hit. Because I've

39:19

recommended, you know, do five one -minute

39:21

sprints with a minute or two

39:23

of calming down between them as being

39:25

more effective for years. And then

39:27

I switched to recommending re -hit in

39:30

my last book. But what's the delta

39:32

between old style hit and re -hit?

39:34

So the delta comes

39:36

down to your first

39:39

time and how doable

39:41

it is. Okay,

39:44

that's accurate. You

39:46

get good results with it. No

39:48

question. So again,

39:52

that's on the carol bike,

39:54

the Norwegian critical. Core times

39:56

four minutes in five, in

39:58

zone five, with three -minute rest

40:00

periods in between, has

40:03

a ton of

40:05

research highly effective. It

40:08

takes half an hour.

40:10

You're absolutely sweat wrenched and

40:13

it is really hard.

40:15

It's really hard mentally because

40:17

the weight of perceived

40:19

exertion is very, very high.

40:22

And so, yeah, I would again argue that

40:24

the Carol Bike is probably the best

40:26

tool to do that if you want to

40:28

do it. And we want to give

40:30

people the best tool for what they want

40:32

to do. It is a versatile tool. and

40:35

that there's a hardware monitor built in, there's

40:37

an AI system watching what you're doing, it can

40:39

guide what you're doing. It's an all -encompassing thing,

40:41

and it does have a zone two setting

40:43

on the curl bike. I just have

40:45

never turned it on because I value my life. But

40:48

like you're saying, everything is so

40:50

quantified that compared to just using

40:52

a Peloton or something, it's

40:55

not even the same universe in terms

40:57

of the feedback and the data. So

40:59

I'm just a big believer in effectiveness

41:01

on something like this. There's

41:05

something else that happens

41:07

Ulrich. When

41:09

you combine cold plunges

41:11

and you combine saunas and

41:13

you combine any other

41:16

emotional or physiological stresses, maybe

41:18

fasting, intermittent fasting, each

41:20

of these increases the amount of

41:22

stress on the system. And it's

41:24

good stress until it becomes bad stress.

41:27

And the stress handling systems become

41:29

overwhelmed. And that's why a

41:31

lot of the tech that I

41:33

work with is around recovering

41:35

from stress so that you can

41:37

handle more of it. But the

41:40

population that hits the stress

41:42

wall first is usually a paraminopausal

41:44

women. And that's because

41:46

they're DHEA and pregnant alone

41:48

and progesterone levels have

41:50

tanks. And those are anti -stress

41:52

hormones. So cortisol is higher.

41:55

Adrenaline is often higher

41:57

without the corresponding

41:59

hormones of youthfulness and

42:01

resilience. So for

42:03

paramedopausal women, why would re

42:05

-hit work better than hit or zone

42:07

two? As you say, we've

42:10

used exertion

42:13

high -intensity interval

42:15

training. So you

42:17

get the trainings that

42:19

are very, very short. very

42:22

intense, but very short amount

42:24

of stress and with the

42:26

overall level of exertion is

42:28

very low. And

42:30

so that is just

42:33

especially for women, permanent

42:35

women, beneficial because long

42:37

zone two, long cardio

42:39

training, things that traditionally

42:41

would have been done,

42:43

would have all those other,

42:45

you know, unwanted effects,

42:48

high cortisol. Some odd

42:50

to even catabolic and

42:52

making it even harder

42:55

to maintain and build

42:57

muscle mass. And

42:59

so having cardio

43:01

covered with

43:03

a reduced exertion

43:05

hit program

43:07

is just incredibly

43:09

beneficial. And then

43:11

you can focus on other things

43:14

that become really important for

43:16

that group and resistance training. I

43:19

would very much

43:21

prefer female listeners. Before

43:23

you do zone two, please make sure

43:25

you have done resistance and strength training

43:28

because it's just so much more important

43:30

for you. It's a beautiful picture. You're

43:32

saying, all right, your ability to manage

43:34

stress of all forms is likely a

43:36

little bit compromised in perimenopause or frankly

43:38

in andropause for men as well. We

43:40

have similar problems, but not as dramatic

43:42

of a decline. We do get andropause.

43:46

During that time, you want to provide enough

43:48

stimulus to stay healthy so that you

43:50

don't get insulin resistance, which is going to

43:52

take down everything else and is going

43:54

to make you old. So what's

43:56

the right dose in order

43:58

to do it? And if you

44:00

do rehead, which provides less

44:02

overall stress on the body, but

44:04

strong adaptation, you have enough

44:06

energy left to pick up some heavy things

44:09

or do some planks so you don't get

44:11

the lack of bone density. And all

44:13

of a sudden, you don't have the weight

44:15

gain that comes from perimenopause because you didn't

44:17

get insulin resistant and you didn't overwhelm your

44:19

stress handling systems. And you might want to

44:21

do some things like take DHE and pregnant

44:23

alone in hormone replacement and all so

44:25

that it's less of an issue. That's a

44:27

different biohack. That's pure longevity. But

44:30

most women I know who are in

44:32

perimenopause have no desire to go do

44:34

zone 2 training all the time, nor

44:36

do they have time. So

44:39

that's out the window. And if they

44:41

were to try and do Norwegian protocol high

44:43

-intensity interval training, it's going to overwhelm the

44:45

system. Right? So what's

44:47

left? Well, re -hit

44:49

is manageable. Right? And

44:52

then even if they're to lift

44:54

one time a week on top

44:56

of re -hit, the lifting is going

44:58

to take, what, about a half hour? And

45:00

re -hit is going to take 15 minutes.

45:02

So now you're like 45 minutes total per

45:04

week, but that's three, five minute carol sessions. And

45:07

one half hour let's pick up some heavy

45:09

stuff or at least do squats and they

45:11

can be squats in the kitchen while you're

45:13

blending something if you want to I've seen

45:15

that work just fine right. It's

45:18

manageable right and for most of

45:20

us including me when I was really

45:22

fat. It feels like. There's this

45:24

insurmountable amount of work you have to

45:26

go do at a time when, you know,

45:28

for me, my adrenals were blown out.

45:30

My testosterone was lower than my mom. And

45:32

I'm like, I'm willing to go to the

45:34

gym, but it's taking everything I've got and

45:36

I'm not changing because I was already

45:38

depleted. So I feel like this

45:40

is a way out of the kind

45:42

of the trap that happens around middle

45:44

age where, you know, I can't exercise

45:46

the way I did when I was

45:48

25, right? Because it doesn't work. Right

45:51

even if I do put that amount

45:53

of energy out I don't feel the way

45:55

I did back then right and you

45:57

can get that back And I certainly have

45:59

but for most people it's not there.

46:01

So this is the path forward as far

46:03

as I can tell I'm not I'm

46:05

not trying to sell Carol to anyone What

46:07

I am trying to sell is the

46:09

advice from smarter know harder was my most

46:11

my last book not heavily meditated my

46:13

next one. I'm just guys There's so many

46:15

ways to get the signal in without

46:17

breaking yourself. And I take it personally because

46:19

I did break myself when I was

46:21

26 and I'm going to the gym 90

46:23

minutes a day. Like it was ridiculous. What

46:30

advice would you have for

46:32

someone who's 19, who's interested

46:34

in doing rehab? They can,

46:36

absolutely they can. So we

46:39

have, in fact, we don't

46:41

have a lower age limit for the

46:43

bike. So we do. of our terms

46:45

and conditions stipulate that if a child,

46:47

you have to do it under adult supervision. But

46:50

you can start doing it as soon

46:52

as you're tall enough to use the

46:54

bike. So for a 19 -year -old, absolutely

46:57

you can. And if

46:59

I look at my kids

47:01

who are 16 -year -olds, they

47:03

use the bike, not

47:05

necessarily because they need it to

47:07

get their cardio fitness in because

47:09

they don't have other time, but

47:11

to help them compete in their

47:13

sport. we're in

47:15

Europe soccer players and at

47:17

a very competitive level to

47:19

get training sessions in additional

47:22

training sessions, but don't stress

47:24

the body further. So if

47:26

they have two matches, three

47:28

training sessions with a team

47:30

or so, then they

47:32

do some additional training

47:34

sessions in their off

47:36

days almost. to

47:38

get additional stimulus that doesn't,

47:40

again, doesn't break them and

47:42

doesn't create unnecessary stress rather

47:45

than beyond what they get

47:47

already through their other training. I'm

47:49

pretty passionate about this. I guess people

47:51

can tell. I look at

47:53

how much of my life I

47:55

spend doing things that weren't very

47:57

effective from an exercise perspective, and

48:00

it's at least two years of

48:02

full -time work. Like,

48:04

I would have rather had the salary

48:06

and the same results. And that's why I

48:08

get all excited about it. There

48:10

are other things, though,

48:12

that are a part of

48:15

how you built Carole. You

48:18

didn't just look at

48:20

ReHit. There's some AI components

48:22

that I think are critical

48:24

to us continuing to do

48:26

exercise. How do you

48:28

use AI to make exercise

48:31

easier with Carole? It's a

48:33

critical part for us to

48:35

personalize and optimize the workouts

48:37

and to actually get to

48:40

be able to retrograde the

48:42

benefit but have been demonstrated

48:44

in a lab in real

48:46

life. So when we, well, your

48:48

press came across, we hit. That's

48:51

2012. We

48:53

just heard about it, but and

48:55

I've got myself a normal exercise

48:57

bike was very disappointed that I

49:00

couldn't replicate. what scientists

49:02

did in the lab. And that

49:04

was because they had a

49:06

second person operating the bike for

49:08

you, applying the right resistance

49:10

at the right time. And

49:13

that's just

49:15

impractical for normal

49:17

people. And

49:19

what we can do

49:21

because we have the data,

49:23

therefore we have the

49:25

data from tens of thousands

49:27

of users, millions of

49:29

rides. we can

49:31

run sophisticated algorithms, and

49:33

they get better

49:35

and better. The

49:38

enforcement learning algorithms over the

49:40

data to identify what

49:42

an optimal ride looks like,

49:45

and not just engineering terms,

49:47

but for somebody exactly

49:49

like you, and then

49:51

dial the resistance very

49:53

quickly to that optimal level

49:55

of resistance that helps

49:57

you to get to your

49:59

maximum intensity, to

50:02

hit your peak power, and

50:04

keep the workout effective,

50:07

efficient, optimal for you

50:09

as you get bigger

50:11

and stronger. Or

50:13

what happened with me, if you have

50:15

an injury and you lose some

50:18

fitness as well, or whatever, life's caught

50:20

up with you and you had

50:22

to take a break. So

50:24

then very quickly find again your

50:26

optimum create a lighter

50:28

workout for me to

50:30

then build up your strength

50:32

and your condition again. And

50:35

that's where we can use

50:37

AI because we have the data,

50:39

and that's really what sets

50:41

us apart because nobody else has

50:43

that. Even the scientists we

50:45

work with, I mean, the usual

50:48

epidemic study is, you know,

50:50

eight weeks, 12 weeks, has 40,

50:52

50 participants or so. You

50:54

talk about hundreds of workouts, we

50:56

have millions, and

50:58

thereby can develop more things

51:00

on the back of that. And

51:02

there's cool stuff coming. So

51:05

for the people who want to

51:07

do the zone tool, because

51:09

one difficulty with the zone

51:11

tool is, what's the right level

51:13

of intensity? She has all

51:15

sorts of suggestions, oh, we should

51:17

be able to talk, but

51:19

not sing, or it

51:21

should be uncomfortable, and so on.

51:23

Even if we have access

51:26

to that, of course, but if

51:28

you use gas analyzers or

51:30

so to measure your respiratory exchange

51:32

rate, it's all a

51:34

bit uncractical and not that precise. There

51:38

are people who want to do

51:40

zone 2 and they want to do

51:42

it optimally. A

51:44

very cool new thing that is

51:46

coming is looking at heart

51:48

rate variability in real time. Yeah,

51:53

I'm not looking at only at hard

51:55

rate variability, but I'm looking at the

51:57

complexity. So that's like higher

51:59

orders. So you have hard rate, hard

52:01

rate variability, and then the complexity of

52:03

your hard rate variability. And

52:05

by analyzing the complexity of the

52:07

hard rate variability, you can

52:09

write when liably prime

52:11

that optimal point where you're

52:13

switching from patent metabolism

52:15

to carb and glucose metabolism.

52:18

And so that's something that will So

52:20

let's put a time on an Uber.

52:22

Then the next three months, we'll have

52:24

that available on our bikes. So

52:27

if you are, and there

52:29

are some people who will

52:31

make this, you must

52:33

know some professional biohackers. Oh,

52:36

well, most professional biohackers don't want

52:38

to do Zone 2 because they have

52:40

things like stuff to do, but

52:42

professional athletes I'm friends with do want

52:44

to do that. Exactly. For

52:47

example, if you're computing and you can't take

52:49

those band substances and you want to do it

52:51

all and you have the time, then

52:53

we can help them with that,

52:55

like new analysis, there's compelling new

52:57

research and we can implement it

52:59

on their mind to make it

53:01

optimal for them. So there's lots

53:03

of full things that can be

53:05

done once you have a ton

53:07

of data and the algorithms get

53:09

more and more powerful and having

53:11

the data is then just such

53:14

a big asset to develop new

53:16

stuff. What you said about heart

53:18

rate variability just warms my heart.

53:21

Many years ago, I was an advisor

53:23

to the Heart Math Institute and

53:25

I brought them into the Quantified Self

53:27

in Biohacking Movement and Roland McCready

53:29

has been a friend now for almost

53:31

20 years who's the head of

53:33

research and development and has shown this

53:35

incredible like symphony of mathematical beauty

53:37

that's in your EKG tracing from the

53:39

heart. And it's a lot more

53:41

than the spacing between your heartbeat or

53:43

how frequent it is. And

53:45

because you have so much

53:47

data, you can dig in on

53:49

that in a way that's unprecedented. And

53:52

I fully believe that if you did

53:54

want to do Zone 2 or just re

53:56

-hit, there's a unique personal dose that changes

53:58

every single day based on all kinds

54:00

of hidden variables, including how well you slept,

54:02

whether you had a glass of beer

54:04

last night, did you eat a bunch of

54:06

carbs or not, how much lactate you

54:08

have, all these things. And you're going to

54:10

be able to get that straight from

54:12

the body and in real time provide exactly

54:15

that. So if I was going

54:17

to do zone two or re hit, I

54:19

would want to do it with ultra personalization.

54:21

And that's why we built you guys into

54:23

upgrade labs, to be honest. And we do

54:25

the same thing with muscle building with a

54:27

different system and all of our systems were

54:29

integrating into our master data system, because I

54:32

just want to do what works, right?

54:35

And. I cannot wait to see that.

54:37

You might even convince me to try some zone, too,

54:39

because it'll be personalized for me. And at least if

54:41

I'm going to waste two hours of my life, I

54:43

might as well waste it with the ultimate efficiency get results.

54:46

Because that's the other thing, that if you

54:48

do it too low, then it's like a

54:50

complete waste of time and get nothing. If

54:52

it's too high, then they say like, oh,

54:54

but now you went into cart metabolism and

54:57

it doesn't count anymore. You

54:59

nailed it. That's exactly what

55:01

happens. Oh my gosh, I

55:03

didn't realize you were coming

55:05

up with that. That genuinely

55:07

makes me happy. Let's

55:10

talk about this. Why

55:12

do most people quit their workouts? That's

55:14

a great question. If you

55:16

survey people, the

55:19

number one answer is

55:21

lack of time. Secondary

55:25

answer is something like boredom. You

55:28

can then invest

55:30

different approaches to it.

55:34

They're all valid and I would

55:36

say whatever works best. So

55:38

some people try to make it

55:40

really fun and have like

55:42

super soundtracks and very attractive celebrity

55:44

instructors that work out with

55:46

you in front of you on

55:48

a big screen and so

55:50

on. And other people

55:52

like us try to make

55:54

it very, very efficient and

55:57

will just help you get

55:59

it done in minimal time.

56:02

And maybe there's, you know, there

56:04

are many people out there.

56:06

For some people, the music and

56:09

the very attractive instructor is

56:11

the thing that helps them get

56:13

it done. And wonderful, yeah?

56:15

So, no, seriously, the

56:17

number one thing for exercise

56:19

is adherence. So, the

56:21

best workout goes nothing for you

56:23

if you don't do it. So, adherence

56:26

is the number one. So,

56:28

if you found something that works for you

56:30

and that you're enjoying, and that

56:32

you can stick to, that's beautiful.

56:35

If it's only true with a podcast, that's

56:37

great. But if

56:39

you like many, the

56:41

majority of the American population,

56:44

then lack of time will

56:46

play a big role. And

56:49

your attention is a

56:51

very precious commodity that

56:53

people come to very

56:55

hard for. And there's

56:57

great, great companies that

56:59

are very efficient at

57:02

stealing their attention in

57:04

some ways. And

57:06

so we're not going

57:08

to be more exciting than

57:10

TikTok and Instagram and kind

57:12

of more kind of instant

57:14

gratification and satisfaction. So

57:17

we felt we had to go

57:19

down a different path and just

57:21

help people get the benefits in

57:23

as little time as possible. Not

57:25

having enough time is very, very

57:27

meaningful. I deal with it too,

57:29

and I'm pretty darn optimized. So

57:32

I feel like we don't have

57:34

enough time to go through everything

57:36

that we could talk about because

57:38

you've gone so deep on all

57:40

the science. But there is

57:42

one more topic I want to go in

57:44

on if you have another couple of minutes. Can

57:46

you talk to me about lactate and how

57:48

important that is and what it does in exercise?

57:51

And lactate, if you

57:54

switch from metabolism

57:56

to glucose and glycanithic

57:58

workout. You

58:00

just rate the glycogen

58:02

molecules down and a

58:04

very important metabolic product

58:06

of that process is

58:08

lactate. And on

58:10

the one hand, it creates

58:13

then a threshold for

58:15

how hard and how long

58:17

we can work. So

58:19

for athletes improving their lack

58:21

of tolerance and the

58:23

ability to hear lactate in

58:25

their mitochondria is really

58:27

important for competitive performance. But

58:30

lactate is thought to

58:32

have also a bunch

58:34

of positive effects. So

58:37

when it comes to, for

58:39

example, your mental health, as far

58:41

as I understand, um lactate

58:43

is transported to the brain

58:45

and place their really important

58:47

role in your in your

58:49

neurotransmitter household and is an

58:51

important actor in the production

58:53

of serotonin and so while

58:55

yes it was thought that

58:57

makes your legs burn and

59:00

it also helps you or

59:02

kind of feel happy after

59:04

work out and improve your

59:06

your need and. has a

59:08

number of positive kind of

59:10

results and the monocled side

59:12

effect. I think

59:14

lactate is not, it's not

59:16

respected enough as being both

59:18

good for you and bad

59:20

for you and it's a

59:22

complex thing to manage. One

59:25

of the technologies I use that modulates lactate

59:27

is blood flow restriction bands. So you put

59:29

things on your arms or legs or both

59:31

and they restrict some blood flow, which causes

59:33

an increase in lactate. And then when you

59:35

take them off, you get a surge of

59:37

lactate. That's good for your brain and your

59:39

metabolism. Can I use

59:42

blood flow restriction bands with the

59:44

curl bike? So

59:46

I know people who do

59:48

and I very clearly bought

59:50

some of the workouts as

59:52

entirely possible. Now

59:54

or we hit and

59:56

just how our bike

59:58

is built and how

1:00:00

also our algorithms work, it

1:00:03

wouldn't be our first choice for

1:00:05

reheat. So there's, if you want

1:00:07

to do some of the lower

1:00:09

intensity workouts with blood flow restriction

1:00:11

bands, absolutely. So if

1:00:13

you, especially if you had

1:00:15

like, say an injury or

1:00:17

something that limits how much

1:00:19

force like, even if it's

1:00:21

so short, it can wind

1:00:23

blow all out, then I

1:00:25

think blood flow restriction bands

1:00:27

are entirely Yeah, like good thing

1:00:29

to use and also to use with

1:00:31

a bike. Rehit

1:00:34

specifically, maybe you

1:00:36

could, if you did it all

1:00:38

the time, then maybe that would work.

1:00:40

I wouldn't do like sometimes with,

1:00:42

sometimes without. That would seem a wrong

1:00:44

choice. Interesting. Okay, so consistent use

1:00:47

of blood flow restriction and probably not

1:00:49

necessary. It seems like

1:00:51

you're better off to do your re -hit

1:00:53

session, because it only takes five minutes, and

1:00:55

then put on your blood flow restriction bands.

1:00:57

And you can read all about this in

1:00:59

Smarter Not Harder, I think if there's that

1:01:01

tech, you can put those on and then

1:01:03

lift some weights or just go for a

1:01:05

walk. There's good studies about walking. Yes,

1:01:08

correct. So blood flow

1:01:10

restriction has good evidence behind

1:01:12

it. It's a good

1:01:14

thing to do, especially if

1:01:16

you can't go through

1:01:18

whatever physiological, if something

1:01:20

stops you from going like up

1:01:22

to really high forces, also

1:01:24

with strength training. If you

1:01:26

can't lift super heavy and

1:01:28

to get a very, very

1:01:30

efficient effective stimulus via just

1:01:32

going to your maximum weight,

1:01:35

blood flow restriction bands are a

1:01:37

very good way to get

1:01:39

a very effective training stimulus with

1:01:41

just lower weights and lower

1:01:43

load. That makes good sense. You

1:01:45

don't need to combine the

1:01:47

two. Have you heard of

1:01:49

interval walking training? I haven't.

1:01:51

Tell me about it. I came

1:01:53

across some Japanese research and I

1:01:56

just posted about it and the

1:01:58

summary was twice the benefits of

1:02:00

10 ,000 steps a day and it

1:02:02

takes 30 minutes a day and

1:02:04

it reminded me of your work.

1:02:07

And they found four times the

1:02:09

improvement in blood pressure from

1:02:11

10 ,000 steps a day, a

1:02:13

reduction of stroke risk by 40

1:02:15

% and improvement in sleep efficiency

1:02:17

by 12%. This is 30

1:02:19

minutes a day. Okay, just Rehit

1:02:21

takes five minutes a day

1:02:23

and is different than this, but

1:02:25

it's similar thinking and Here's

1:02:27

what you do you walk really

1:02:30

slowly for three minutes Like

1:02:32

with your dog and then you

1:02:34

walk fast for three minutes

1:02:36

kind of like zone two walking

1:02:38

for three minutes You know

1:02:40

where you're almost out of breath.

1:02:42

Hey, and then you repeat

1:02:44

that five times walk slow for

1:02:46

three walk fast for three

1:02:48

and That outperformed

1:02:50

10 ,000 steps a day, which is a made -up

1:02:52

number anyway. That was invented also by Japanese

1:02:54

researchers in the 1950s trying to sell pedometers. Like

1:02:56

the first fitness tracker ever made up 10 ,000

1:02:58

steps a day. And to this day, your

1:03:00

Fitbit still tells you to do it. And it's

1:03:02

nonsense. I know I was CTO of the

1:03:05

first company to get heart rate from the wrist.

1:03:07

I went into that history. And

1:03:09

so what are your comments

1:03:11

on this crazy intermittent, whatever

1:03:13

you want to call it, interval walking

1:03:16

training? The idea is, rest, intense, rest,

1:03:18

intense, and it's getting better results than

1:03:20

the old way of walking. It feels

1:03:22

like it's the same algorithm you're applying

1:03:24

to intensity, but just to walking. My,

1:03:26

you know, obviously not

1:03:29

fully informed, but instant reaction

1:03:31

would be that it's

1:03:33

entirely plausible. And that, I

1:03:35

think, great exercise and

1:03:37

hit. It's been shown quite

1:03:39

conclusive to me that

1:03:41

alternating higher and lower intensity

1:03:43

periods is more effective

1:03:45

than just steady state. So

1:03:48

I think it's entirely plausible. I've not

1:03:50

read the research myself yet, but

1:03:52

I think this would

1:03:54

make very good sense and

1:03:56

I wouldn't be surprised

1:03:58

if that were. Beautiful.

1:04:03

I'm really impressed with

1:04:05

your physiological knowledge and

1:04:07

your level of biohacker

1:04:09

cred. nerdiness and

1:04:11

this dedication to just finding out

1:04:13

what works, especially using the

1:04:15

data you have that's very precious.

1:04:18

Find out what works not for everyone

1:04:20

because let's face it, the 70

1:04:22

year old man and the 16 year

1:04:24

old woman or girl, whatever you

1:04:26

want to call her and my daughter

1:04:28

is 17. I haven't figured that

1:04:31

one out yet. Whatever

1:04:33

that difference is, it's so broad

1:04:35

that you can't make anything up

1:04:37

that's going to apply. So let's

1:04:39

measure and let's customize and personalize

1:04:41

and let's do it effectively and

1:04:43

efficiently. So I just think that's

1:04:45

the only future that makes sense

1:04:47

for humans when we're going to

1:04:49

go force ourselves exercise. So thanks

1:04:51

for being at the very cutting

1:04:53

edge with your work at Carl

1:04:55

Ulrich. Appreciate you. Thanks

1:04:57

to you also for

1:04:59

creating this movement and getting

1:05:02

awareness to all the,

1:05:04

like, really exciting new things

1:05:06

that are in development. It's

1:05:09

very necessary. It's an

1:05:11

exciting time. And guys, carolbike.com is

1:05:13

code Dave, and you can

1:05:15

do this, and you'll save so

1:05:17

much time in the first 100 days

1:05:19

that it pays for itself if

1:05:21

you have a decent hourly wage. Like,

1:05:24

it's that big of a savings. So,

1:05:26

I'm a big fan of doing that, or...

1:05:28

into Upgrade Labs, become a member, and we'll

1:05:30

do all the other stuff that stacks along

1:05:32

with this. Either way, you win.

1:05:35

So anyway, full respect, and I can't wait

1:05:37

to see you at the Biohacking Conference

1:05:39

in Austin, May 28th. You'll have tons of

1:05:41

carols there for people to try, right?

1:05:43

Exactly that, yes. So that's another way how

1:05:46

you can try the carol bike. And

1:05:48

we'd love to see you there, of course.

1:05:50

All right, guys, biohackingconference.com, the original conference,

1:05:52

and you can actually meet Ulrich and all

1:05:54

the other inventors of the cool tech

1:05:56

that's there when you come and hang out

1:05:58

with yours truly well. We'll see you

1:06:00

on the next episode. See

1:06:02

you next time on the

1:06:04

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